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Electric cars
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"So follow up to the thread about Tesco now charging ££ to charge your car Is it just me or does anyone else think that the electric car is going to fail My reasons With the energy price hike I believe it’s only 1p cheaper per mile that petrol The cost of buying an ev compared to petrol Still nowhere near enough charging points in the uk They will soon be getting taxed to use the roads Although they don’t impact the environment whilst running the damage is still there from the mining for the materials the power produced for charging etc… " Yep. Only those with driveways can change at home. Given there are often queues at filling stations and you can put enough fuel in to drive 600 miles in about 3 minutes then there'll be carnage when there are queues to charge up. The infrastructure will never be there. They can't even fix pot holes efficiently now. How can they ever put in enough charging points to replace ICE cars? 
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"So follow up to the thread about Tesco now charging ££ to charge your car Is it just me or does anyone else think that the electric car is going to fail My reasons With the energy price hike I believe it’s only 1p cheaper per mile that petrol The cost of buying an ev compared to petrol Still nowhere near enough charging points in the uk They will soon be getting taxed to use the roads Although they don’t impact the environment whilst running the damage is still there from the mining for the materials the power produced for charging etc… Yep. Only those with driveways can change at home. Given there are often queues at filling stations and you can put enough fuel in to drive 600 miles in about 3 minutes then there'll be carnage when there are queues to charge up. The infrastructure will never be there. They can't even fix pot holes efficiently now. How can they ever put in enough charging points to replace ICE cars?
A"*charge, not change.  | |||
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"So follow up to the thread about Tesco now charging ££ to charge your car Is it just me or does anyone else think that the electric car is going to fail My reasons With the energy price hike I believe it’s only 1p cheaper per mile that petrol The cost of buying an ev compared to petrol Still nowhere near enough charging points in the uk They will soon be getting taxed to use the roads Although they don’t impact the environment whilst running the damage is still there from the mining for the materials the power produced for charging etc… " look at who controls lithium. It's the new oil. It will be a fought over commodity. | |||
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"So follow up to the thread about Tesco now charging ££ to charge your car Is it just me or does anyone else think that the electric car is going to fail My reasons With the energy price hike I believe it’s only 1p cheaper per mile that petrol The cost of buying an ev compared to petrol Still nowhere near enough charging points in the uk They will soon be getting taxed to use the roads Although they don’t impact the environment whilst running the damage is still there from the mining for the materials the power produced for charging etc… " They won't be allowed to fail. They will be subsidised until they are the only option. Too many people politicians and business have too much to lose for any other outcome. | |||
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"So follow up to the thread about Tesco now charging ££ to charge your car Is it just me or does anyone else think that the electric car is going to fail My reasons With the energy price hike I believe it’s only 1p cheaper per mile that petrol The cost of buying an ev compared to petrol Still nowhere near enough charging points in the uk They will soon be getting taxed to use the roads Although they don’t impact the environment whilst running the damage is still there from the mining for the materials the power produced for charging etc… " Electric cars is a fail like CD was | |||
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"The car blokes I know all reckon it'll be hydrogen. I don't know anything about it though." Honda built a hydrogen car about 20 years ago and I believe it’s been trialled in USA with success I think what is holding it back is hydrogen seems to be a tad bit volatile whilst be transported Don’t hold me to that I think it was something clarkson said on top gear many years back | |||
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"So follow up to the thread about Tesco now charging ££ to charge your car Is it just me or does anyone else think that the electric car is going to fail My reasons With the energy price hike I believe it’s only 1p cheaper per mile that petrol The cost of buying an ev compared to petrol Still nowhere near enough charging points in the uk They will soon be getting taxed to use the roads Although they don’t impact the environment whilst running the damage is still there from the mining for the materials the power produced for charging etc… look at who controls lithium. It's the new oil. It will be a fought over commodity." Lithium is an interesting problem though, in the short term, it’s definitely the new oil but eventually people will be ‘mining’ it from scrap/second hand EVs- it doesn’t get used up so is recoverable and recyclable effectively indefinitely. This is both going to make stealing batteries a high-risk, high-reward target for the sort of criminal gangs currently nicking catalytic converters, as well as creating a new cartel of dodgy governments. | |||
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"The car blokes I know all reckon it'll be hydrogen. I don't know anything about it though. Honda built a hydrogen car about 20 years ago and I believe it’s been trialled in USA with success I think what is holding it back is hydrogen seems to be a tad bit volatile whilst be transported Don’t hold me to that I think it was something clarkson said on top gear many years back " Yeah I don't really pay attention when they explain it but it's what they do as a job so I figure electric may not be the only option. | |||
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"So follow up to the thread about Tesco now charging ££ to charge your car Is it just me or does anyone else think that the electric car is going to fail My reasons With the energy price hike I believe it’s only 1p cheaper per mile that petrol The cost of buying an ev compared to petrol Still nowhere near enough charging points in the uk They will soon be getting taxed to use the roads Although they don’t impact the environment whilst running the damage is still there from the mining for the materials the power produced for charging etc… Electric cars is a fail like CD was " CDs weren’t a fail, they were just superseded by a newer technology- it’s exactly the same as what’s happening to fossil fuel cars, and what will eventually happen to EVs. It’s just the normal process of iterative improvement that every single invention in human history must face. | |||
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"My EV is still considerably cheaper than my petrol car was (real world operating costs are halved), and that’s before you factor in the fact that we recently installed solar panels, so some of my charging is now effectively “free”. As renewable energy for electricity becomes more widespread and economies of scale can be applied, it’s going to become cheaper and cheaper, but as we exhaust fossil fuels in easily accessible reservoirs, it’s becoming more expensive to produce. In the very long-term, Hydrogen cell cars will be the best option for us, but they will require a huge investment in a whole new infrastructure to support their operation, while EVs just need an adaption/expansion of a pre-existing infrastructure. Hydrogen also has advantages for HGV, freight ships and other larger machinery which electricity is less appropriate for, as well. The problem with all of this is there’s no real appetite from governments to act as drivers for change or to force industries to make the change happen- it’s easier for them to target individual consumers and just punish us with increasing taxes for not “making the right choice” even though there’s still not really any choice available to us." So you add the cost of the EV (make and model depending) +the cost of the solar panels(amount) with the added expense of the special tyres (thicker stronger sidewalls to cope with the extra weight)and the fact EV's arnt environmentally friendly to produce (roughly double the co2 of an ice car volvo study and vw study) the aparent savings will negligible at best | |||
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"there is also talk about blackouts this winter , if so, how will you charge up electric cars with no power supply on the national grid ?? " They have already said it is highly unlikely a general blackout on a regional or national level will need to happen. Some countries may have a power outage planned on a rota basis. If for any reason they need to schedule in a power cut in the UK, it will be done for no more than 3 hours maximum and it will be during the day and we will have prior notice of it happening. Another reason why they are asking people to charge cars where possible at off peak hours and for no longer than what's needed. | |||
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"The car blokes I know all reckon it'll be hydrogen. I don't know anything about it though. Honda built a hydrogen car about 20 years ago and I believe it’s been trialled in USA with success I think what is holding it back is hydrogen seems to be a tad bit volatile whilst be transported Don’t hold me to that I think it was something clarkson said on top gear many years back Yeah I don't really pay attention when they explain it but it's what they do as a job so I figure electric may not be the only option." Hydrogen uses 2.5x the energy to produce than what it gives back so for every kwh of hydrogen you'll use 2.5x to make it | |||
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"The car blokes I know all reckon it'll be hydrogen. I don't know anything about it though. Honda built a hydrogen car about 20 years ago and I believe it’s been trialled in USA with success I think what is holding it back is hydrogen seems to be a tad bit volatile whilst be transported Don’t hold me to that I think it was something clarkson said on top gear many years back Yeah I don't really pay attention when they explain it but it's what they do as a job so I figure electric may not be the only option. Hydrogen uses 2.5x the energy to produce than what it gives back so for every kwh of hydrogen you'll use 2.5x to make it " I don't think they've cracked the technology yet. Otherwise presumably we'd be using it. | |||
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"My EV is still considerably cheaper than my petrol car was (real world operating costs are halved), and that’s before you factor in the fact that we recently installed solar panels, so some of my charging is now effectively “free”. As renewable energy for electricity becomes more widespread and economies of scale can be applied, it’s going to become cheaper and cheaper, but as we exhaust fossil fuels in easily accessible reservoirs, it’s becoming more expensive to produce. In the very long-term, Hydrogen cell cars will be the best option for us, but they will require a huge investment in a whole new infrastructure to support their operation, while EVs just need an adaption/expansion of a pre-existing infrastructure. Hydrogen also has advantages for HGV, freight ships and other larger machinery which electricity is less appropriate for, as well. The problem with all of this is there’s no real appetite from governments to act as drivers for change or to force industries to make the change happen- it’s easier for them to target individual consumers and just punish us with increasing taxes for not “making the right choice” even though there’s still not really any choice available to us." So people who rent won't be able to do panels. People who live in flats or who don't have private driveways can't charge overnight. There will never be enough public charging points to replace the volume of petrol stations. So far as I know there's no EV's that will last a decade or more without requiring new batteries - at a cost likely to be greater than the value of the car itself. There seems to be far more issues with the drive to move to EV's than the benefits they potentially offer. And that doesn't include the environmental damage their manufacture causes. Great in theory.....but in practice? A | |||
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"So follow up to the thread about Tesco now charging ££ to charge your car Is it just me or does anyone else think that the electric car is going to fail My reasons With the energy price hike I believe it’s only 1p cheaper per mile that petrol The cost of buying an ev compared to petrol Still nowhere near enough charging points in the uk They will soon be getting taxed to use the roads Although they don’t impact the environment whilst running the damage is still there from the mining for the materials the power produced for charging etc… Yep. Only those with driveways can change at home. Given there are often queues at filling stations and you can put enough fuel in to drive 600 miles in about 3 minutes then there'll be carnage when there are queues to charge up. The infrastructure will never be there. They can't even fix pot holes efficiently now. How can they ever put in enough charging points to replace ICE cars?
A"They will do because there is political will to make it happen. They'll keep the price of petrol and diesel high to push it. | |||
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"The car blokes I know all reckon it'll be hydrogen. I don't know anything about it though. Honda built a hydrogen car about 20 years ago and I believe it’s been trialled in USA with success I think what is holding it back is hydrogen seems to be a tad bit volatile whilst be transported Don’t hold me to that I think it was something clarkson said on top gear many years back Yeah I don't really pay attention when they explain it but it's what they do as a job so I figure electric may not be the only option. Hydrogen uses 2.5x the energy to produce than what it gives back so for every kwh of hydrogen you'll use 2.5x to make it " at the moment…. | |||
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"The car blokes I know all reckon it'll be hydrogen. I don't know anything about it though. Honda built a hydrogen car about 20 years ago and I believe it’s been trialled in USA with success I think what is holding it back is hydrogen seems to be a tad bit volatile whilst be transported Don’t hold me to that I think it was something clarkson said on top gear many years back Yeah I don't really pay attention when they explain it but it's what they do as a job so I figure electric may not be the only option. Hydrogen uses 2.5x the energy to produce than what it gives back so for every kwh of hydrogen you'll use 2.5x to make it " Rocket science . Jesus bong a dong … Why can’t we go back to Vapor engines But instead of burning embers just boiling water ? You boil the Kyle top up the car , off u go  | |||
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"The car blokes I know all reckon it'll be hydrogen. I don't know anything about it though. Honda built a hydrogen car about 20 years ago and I believe it’s been trialled in USA with success I think what is holding it back is hydrogen seems to be a tad bit volatile whilst be transported Don’t hold me to that I think it was something clarkson said on top gear many years back Yeah I don't really pay attention when they explain it but it's what they do as a job so I figure electric may not be the only option. Hydrogen uses 2.5x the energy to produce than what it gives back so for every kwh of hydrogen you'll use 2.5x to make it Rocket science . Jesus bong a dong … Why can’t we go back to Vapor engines But instead of burning embers just boiling water ? You boil the Kyle top up the car , off u go "* kettle | |||
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"Electric cars is a fail like CD was " I seem to remember CDs being a humongous success! | |||
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"It definitely won’t be hydrogen for cars, it’s way too inefficient in terms of energy density and transporting it is a nightmare because the tiny molecules escape all the time." I'll pass that on. No doubt the JLR team will appreciate it  | |||
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"My EV is still considerably cheaper than my petrol car was (real world operating costs are halved), and that’s before you factor in the fact that we recently installed solar panels, so some of my charging is now effectively “free”. As renewable energy for electricity becomes more widespread and economies of scale can be applied, it’s going to become cheaper and cheaper, but as we exhaust fossil fuels in easily accessible reservoirs, it’s becoming more expensive to produce. In the very long-term, Hydrogen cell cars will be the best option for us, but they will require a huge investment in a whole new infrastructure to support their operation, while EVs just need an adaption/expansion of a pre-existing infrastructure. Hydrogen also has advantages for HGV, freight ships and other larger machinery which electricity is less appropriate for, as well. The problem with all of this is there’s no real appetite from governments to act as drivers for change or to force industries to make the change happen- it’s easier for them to target individual consumers and just punish us with increasing taxes for not “making the right choice” even though there’s still not really any choice available to us." It's not free though is it? Unless your solar panels were free. That's just disingenuous misrepresentation | |||
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"They can't even fix pot holes efficiently now. How can they ever put in enough charging points to replace ICE cars? "Of course "they" can. They just don't want to. Now they are slowly figuring out that money can be made from electric cars, the infrastructure will be there. | |||
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"No, I don't think they will fail. They are clearly the future of car use. Countries that have installed roads that charge electric cars are worth paying attention to. Whilst the cost of living crisis is troubling, the climate crisis is far more significant." Grown ups Scalextrix?.. | |||
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"No, I don't think they will fail. They are clearly the future of car use. Countries that have installed roads that charge electric cars are worth paying attention to. Whilst the cost of living crisis is troubling, the climate crisis is far more significant." Ah yes Sweden have done 1.2 miles of electrifyed road but for the plan to work it will require a 70% reduction in transport and as for your climate change charade have a look at the cobalt and lithium mines in Africa and China and Australia and tell me how that's environmentally friendly compared to drilling for oil and gas? | |||
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"The car blokes I know all reckon it'll be hydrogen. I don't know anything about it though. Honda built a hydrogen car about 20 years ago and I believe it’s been trialled in USA with success I think what is holding it back is hydrogen seems to be a tad bit volatile whilst be transported Don’t hold me to that I think it was something clarkson said on top gear many years back " Hydrogen engines have been around a long time. You have to ask why they haven't been developed more main stream. Same reason as efficient engines haven't. | |||
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"Electric cars is a fail like CD was I seem to remember CDs being a humongous success! " Audio n video quality , amazing yes and storage capacity yes . Superb . But how fragile the vessel is to protect your data ? Minimum scratch that’s it . That’s the off putting for me . Does my head in . Try change a cd is like a mission impossible . The bomb will go Boooom Then u buy a £60 game in a cd … not allowed to burn it cause of copy rights n codes bla bla bla . Is a wind up ( for me ) | |||
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"Ah yes Sweden have done 1.2 miles of electrifyed road but for the plan to work it will require a 70% reduction in transport and as for your climate change charade have a look at the cobalt and lithium mines in Africa and China and Australia and tell me how that's environmentally friendly compared to drilling for oil and gas? " I didn't say anything about a climate change charade. I mentioned the climate crisis. You know, the thing that all credible scientists agree on. | |||
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"My EV is still considerably cheaper than my petrol car was (real world operating costs are halved), and that’s before you factor in the fact that we recently installed solar panels, so some of my charging is now effectively “free”. As renewable energy for electricity becomes more widespread and economies of scale can be applied, it’s going to become cheaper and cheaper, but as we exhaust fossil fuels in easily accessible reservoirs, it’s becoming more expensive to produce. In the very long-term, Hydrogen cell cars will be the best option for us, but they will require a huge investment in a whole new infrastructure to support their operation, while EVs just need an adaption/expansion of a pre-existing infrastructure. Hydrogen also has advantages for HGV, freight ships and other larger machinery which electricity is less appropriate for, as well. The problem with all of this is there’s no real appetite from governments to act as drivers for change or to force industries to make the change happen- it’s easier for them to target individual consumers and just punish us with increasing taxes for not “making the right choice” even though there’s still not really any choice available to us. It's not free though is it? Unless your solar panels were free. That's just disingenuous misrepresentation" I said “free” in quotation marks- I’m not denying there wasn’t an outlay to purchase them, but guess what I do with the excess energy I don’t use…I sell it back to the grid, so at current estimates, my panels will have recouped their purchase price in 7-10 years, possibly sooner if the cost of fossil fuels used to generate most of the UK’s electricity continue to rise, making my excess capacity worth more in turn. | |||
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"It's hard for electric cars to fail when they are the only option. Also, it is still considerably cheaper per mile to run an electric car than petrol or diesel. At current prices, it appears to be around 60% cheaper to run electric than petrol when charging at home. Cal" Especially when petrol and diesel price is being maintained artificially high. What will petrol companies do when there's no demand? | |||
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"It definitely won’t be hydrogen for cars, it’s way too inefficient in terms of energy density and transporting it is a nightmare because the tiny molecules escape all the time. The mining of raw materials for batteries is a story put about by the oil companies and it’s about a hundred times smaller than the damage done by getting oil or gas out of the ground. The cost to refill isn’t much of an advantage right now compared to petrol but, funnily enough, the large companies that extract gas are very keen that electricity prices are matched to it. Electricity can be produced by renewable methods (which gas or petrol never can) and soon prices will drop. Charging can be done without a driveway, there are several solutions out there already and plenty of companies who want to provide products for the millions of people who don’t have a driveway. As for electricity blackouts, 80% of cars are charged at night which helps to stabilise electricity generation. The problem with wind turbines is they generate power 24 hours when most people actually use power for about 14 hours. By charging overnight you’re providing a less lumpy power requirement. Non-electric car driver here by the way and past owner of several V8s. I’m sure that if you want to drive 600 miles, stop for 3 minutes and drive another 600 miles then an electric car isn’t for you. But there’s a lot of misinformation around, mostly pedalled by people who would quite like us to keep burning oil "Yet the UK reliance on imports of lithium which is a limited resource. You prepared to to go to war in the future to justify your intentions? | |||
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"My EV is still considerably cheaper than my petrol car was (real world operating costs are halved), and that’s before you factor in the fact that we recently installed solar panels, so some of my charging is now effectively “free”. As renewable energy for electricity becomes more widespread and economies of scale can be applied, it’s going to become cheaper and cheaper, but as we exhaust fossil fuels in easily accessible reservoirs, it’s becoming more expensive to produce. In the very long-term, Hydrogen cell cars will be the best option for us, but they will require a huge investment in a whole new infrastructure to support their operation, while EVs just need an adaption/expansion of a pre-existing infrastructure. Hydrogen also has advantages for HGV, freight ships and other larger machinery which electricity is less appropriate for, as well. The problem with all of this is there’s no real appetite from governments to act as drivers for change or to force industries to make the change happen- it’s easier for them to target individual consumers and just punish us with increasing taxes for not “making the right choice” even though there’s still not really any choice available to us. It's not free though is it? Unless your solar panels were free. That's just disingenuous misrepresentation" The electricity from my panels is free as they long since paid for themselves and now produce pure profit… so yeah, renewables have upfront costs, they save in the long run | |||
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"My EV is still considerably cheaper than my petrol car was (real world operating costs are halved), and that’s before you factor in the fact that we recently installed solar panels, so some of my charging is now effectively “free”. As renewable energy for electricity becomes more widespread and economies of scale can be applied, it’s going to become cheaper and cheaper, but as we exhaust fossil fuels in easily accessible reservoirs, it’s becoming more expensive to produce. In the very long-term, Hydrogen cell cars will be the best option for us, but they will require a huge investment in a whole new infrastructure to support their operation, while EVs just need an adaption/expansion of a pre-existing infrastructure. Hydrogen also has advantages for HGV, freight ships and other larger machinery which electricity is less appropriate for, as well. The problem with all of this is there’s no real appetite from governments to act as drivers for change or to force industries to make the change happen- it’s easier for them to target individual consumers and just punish us with increasing taxes for not “making the right choice” even though there’s still not really any choice available to us. It's not free though is it? Unless your solar panels were free. That's just disingenuous misrepresentation I said “free” in quotation marks- I’m not denying there wasn’t an outlay to purchase them, but guess what I do with the excess energy I don’t use…I sell it back to the grid, so at current estimates, my panels will have recouped their purchase price in 7-10 years, possibly sooner if the cost of fossil fuels used to generate most of the UK’s electricity continue to rise, making my excess capacity worth more in turn." Out of interest how long do solar panels last before they need replacing. I like the idea of them but a 10 year return on investment is a long time. | |||
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"My EV is still considerably cheaper than my petrol car was (real world operating costs are halved), and that’s before you factor in the fact that we recently installed solar panels, so some of my charging is now effectively “free”. As renewable energy for electricity becomes more widespread and economies of scale can be applied, it’s going to become cheaper and cheaper, but as we exhaust fossil fuels in easily accessible reservoirs, it’s becoming more expensive to produce. In the very long-term, Hydrogen cell cars will be the best option for us, but they will require a huge investment in a whole new infrastructure to support their operation, while EVs just need an adaption/expansion of a pre-existing infrastructure. Hydrogen also has advantages for HGV, freight ships and other larger machinery which electricity is less appropriate for, as well. The problem with all of this is there’s no real appetite from governments to act as drivers for change or to force industries to make the change happen- it’s easier for them to target individual consumers and just punish us with increasing taxes for not “making the right choice” even though there’s still not really any choice available to us. It's not free though is it? Unless your solar panels were free. That's just disingenuous misrepresentation The electricity from my panels is free as they long since paid for themselves and now produce pure profit… so yeah, renewables have upfront costs, they save in the long run " That's just not accurate though. It would be Interesting to understand how many people are getting free energy now. | |||
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"My EV is still considerably cheaper than my petrol car was (real world operating costs are halved), and that’s before you factor in the fact that we recently installed solar panels, so some of my charging is now effectively “free”. As renewable energy for electricity becomes more widespread and economies of scale can be applied, it’s going to become cheaper and cheaper, but as we exhaust fossil fuels in easily accessible reservoirs, it’s becoming more expensive to produce. In the very long-term, Hydrogen cell cars will be the best option for us, but they will require a huge investment in a whole new infrastructure to support their operation, while EVs just need an adaption/expansion of a pre-existing infrastructure. Hydrogen also has advantages for HGV, freight ships and other larger machinery which electricity is less appropriate for, as well. The problem with all of this is there’s no real appetite from governments to act as drivers for change or to force industries to make the change happen- it’s easier for them to target individual consumers and just punish us with increasing taxes for not “making the right choice” even though there’s still not really any choice available to us. So people who rent won't be able to do panels. People who live in flats or who don't have private driveways can't charge overnight. There will never be enough public charging points to replace the volume of petrol stations. So far as I know there's no EV's that will last a decade or more without requiring new batteries - at a cost likely to be greater than the value of the car itself. There seems to be far more issues with the drive to move to EV's than the benefits they potentially offer. And that doesn't include the environmental damage their manufacture causes. Great in theory.....but in practice? A" You make some good points, particularly about renters/occupants of flats- but only in the current political climate. The rental market will change when landlords find they can’t rent a property which doesn’t have a charging point- either due to market forces or it becoming a legal requirement just like a smoke detector. Government could easily pass legislation requiring all new build houses and commercial properties to include green measure such as solar panels and EV chargers, they just don’t do it. As for public on street charging, there’s a sodding great network of street lights that can be adapted to have charging points included in the design- there’s companies that have already started producing them, local authorities just need to actually get off their arses and install the damned things! | |||
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"My EV is still considerably cheaper than my petrol car was (real world operating costs are halved), and that’s before you factor in the fact that we recently installed solar panels, so some of my charging is now effectively “free”. As renewable energy for electricity becomes more widespread and economies of scale can be applied, it’s going to become cheaper and cheaper, but as we exhaust fossil fuels in easily accessible reservoirs, it’s becoming more expensive to produce. In the very long-term, Hydrogen cell cars will be the best option for us, but they will require a huge investment in a whole new infrastructure to support their operation, while EVs just need an adaption/expansion of a pre-existing infrastructure. Hydrogen also has advantages for HGV, freight ships and other larger machinery which electricity is less appropriate for, as well. The problem with all of this is there’s no real appetite from governments to act as drivers for change or to force industries to make the change happen- it’s easier for them to target individual consumers and just punish us with increasing taxes for not “making the right choice” even though there’s still not really any choice available to us. It's not free though is it? Unless your solar panels were free. That's just disingenuous misrepresentation I said “free” in quotation marks- I’m not denying there wasn’t an outlay to purchase them, but guess what I do with the excess energy I don’t use…I sell it back to the grid, so at current estimates, my panels will have recouped their purchase price in 7-10 years, possibly sooner if the cost of fossil fuels used to generate most of the UK’s electricity continue to rise, making my excess capacity worth more in turn. Out of interest how long do solar panels last before they need replacing. I like the idea of them but a 10 year return on investment is a long time." Mine are garaunteed to be 80% efficient after 20 years and paid for themselves in 8 | |||
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"My EV is still considerably cheaper than my petrol car was (real world operating costs are halved), and that’s before you factor in the fact that we recently installed solar panels, so some of my charging is now effectively “free”. As renewable energy for electricity becomes more widespread and economies of scale can be applied, it’s going to become cheaper and cheaper, but as we exhaust fossil fuels in easily accessible reservoirs, it’s becoming more expensive to produce. In the very long-term, Hydrogen cell cars will be the best option for us, but they will require a huge investment in a whole new infrastructure to support their operation, while EVs just need an adaption/expansion of a pre-existing infrastructure. Hydrogen also has advantages for HGV, freight ships and other larger machinery which electricity is less appropriate for, as well. The problem with all of this is there’s no real appetite from governments to act as drivers for change or to force industries to make the change happen- it’s easier for them to target individual consumers and just punish us with increasing taxes for not “making the right choice” even though there’s still not really any choice available to us. It's not free though is it? Unless your solar panels were free. That's just disingenuous misrepresentation The electricity from my panels is free as they long since paid for themselves and now produce pure profit… so yeah, renewables have upfront costs, they save in the long run That's just not accurate though. It would be Interesting to understand how many people are getting free energy now. " My bank says it’s accurate… | |||
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"My EV is still considerably cheaper than my petrol car was (real world operating costs are halved), and that’s before you factor in the fact that we recently installed solar panels, so some of my charging is now effectively “free”. As renewable energy for electricity becomes more widespread and economies of scale can be applied, it’s going to become cheaper and cheaper, but as we exhaust fossil fuels in easily accessible reservoirs, it’s becoming more expensive to produce. In the very long-term, Hydrogen cell cars will be the best option for us, but they will require a huge investment in a whole new infrastructure to support their operation, while EVs just need an adaption/expansion of a pre-existing infrastructure. Hydrogen also has advantages for HGV, freight ships and other larger machinery which electricity is less appropriate for, as well. The problem with all of this is there’s no real appetite from governments to act as drivers for change or to force industries to make the change happen- it’s easier for them to target individual consumers and just punish us with increasing taxes for not “making the right choice” even though there’s still not really any choice available to us. It's not free though is it? Unless your solar panels were free. That's just disingenuous misrepresentation I said “free” in quotation marks- I’m not denying there wasn’t an outlay to purchase them, but guess what I do with the excess energy I don’t use…I sell it back to the grid, so at current estimates, my panels will have recouped their purchase price in 7-10 years, possibly sooner if the cost of fossil fuels used to generate most of the UK’s electricity continue to rise, making my excess capacity worth more in turn. Out of interest how long do solar panels last before they need replacing. I like the idea of them but a 10 year return on investment is a long time. Mine are garaunteed to be 80% efficient after 20 years and paid for themselves in 8" In that time do they produce enough "green" energy to offset their own carbon footprint? | |||
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"My EV is still considerably cheaper than my petrol car was (real world operating costs are halved), and that’s before you factor in the fact that we recently installed solar panels, so some of my charging is now effectively “free”. As renewable energy for electricity becomes more widespread and economies of scale can be applied, it’s going to become cheaper and cheaper, but as we exhaust fossil fuels in easily accessible reservoirs, it’s becoming more expensive to produce. In the very long-term, Hydrogen cell cars will be the best option for us, but they will require a huge investment in a whole new infrastructure to support their operation, while EVs just need an adaption/expansion of a pre-existing infrastructure. Hydrogen also has advantages for HGV, freight ships and other larger machinery which electricity is less appropriate for, as well. The problem with all of this is there’s no real appetite from governments to act as drivers for change or to force industries to make the change happen- it’s easier for them to target individual consumers and just punish us with increasing taxes for not “making the right choice” even though there’s still not really any choice available to us. It's not free though is it? Unless your solar panels were free. That's just disingenuous misrepresentation I said “free” in quotation marks- I’m not denying there wasn’t an outlay to purchase them, but guess what I do with the excess energy I don’t use…I sell it back to the grid, so at current estimates, my panels will have recouped their purchase price in 7-10 years, possibly sooner if the cost of fossil fuels used to generate most of the UK’s electricity continue to rise, making my excess capacity worth more in turn. Out of interest how long do solar panels last before they need replacing. I like the idea of them but a 10 year return on investment is a long time. Mine are garaunteed to be 80% efficient after 20 years and paid for themselves in 8" That's Interesting... Is there any annual maintenance or similar? Do they fulfill all your energy requirements so your electric bill is now zero? If one of them fails, do they replace it or do you? As you can tell I don't know about it. Just mindful of things that appear too good to be true. | |||
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"My EV is still considerably cheaper than my petrol car was (real world operating costs are halved), and that’s before you factor in the fact that we recently installed solar panels, so some of my charging is now effectively “free”. As renewable energy for electricity becomes more widespread and economies of scale can be applied, it’s going to become cheaper and cheaper, but as we exhaust fossil fuels in easily accessible reservoirs, it’s becoming more expensive to produce. In the very long-term, Hydrogen cell cars will be the best option for us, but they will require a huge investment in a whole new infrastructure to support their operation, while EVs just need an adaption/expansion of a pre-existing infrastructure. Hydrogen also has advantages for HGV, freight ships and other larger machinery which electricity is less appropriate for, as well. The problem with all of this is there’s no real appetite from governments to act as drivers for change or to force industries to make the change happen- it’s easier for them to target individual consumers and just punish us with increasing taxes for not “making the right choice” even though there’s still not really any choice available to us. It's not free though is it? Unless your solar panels were free. That's just disingenuous misrepresentation I said “free” in quotation marks- I’m not denying there wasn’t an outlay to purchase them, but guess what I do with the excess energy I don’t use…I sell it back to the grid, so at current estimates, my panels will have recouped their purchase price in 7-10 years, possibly sooner if the cost of fossil fuels used to generate most of the UK’s electricity continue to rise, making my excess capacity worth more in turn. Out of interest how long do solar panels last before they need replacing. I like the idea of them but a 10 year return on investment is a long time. Mine are garaunteed to be 80% efficient after 20 years and paid for themselves in 8" I wanted to buy omega max 3 . But solar power aren’t producing any more 
Was 25 years life time and the strongest output for less space .
I only wanted 3 of them ….
Hope there will be good gear in next couple of years .
Me wants a motorhome . A big one ^^
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"It definitely won’t be hydrogen for cars, it’s way too inefficient in terms of energy density and transporting it is a nightmare because the tiny molecules escape all the time. The mining of raw materials for batteries is a story put about by the oil companies and it’s about a hundred times smaller than the damage done by getting oil or gas out of the ground. The cost to refill isn’t much of an advantage right now compared to petrol but, funnily enough, the large companies that extract gas are very keen that electricity prices are matched to it. Electricity can be produced by renewable methods (which gas or petrol never can) and soon prices will drop. Charging can be done without a driveway, there are several solutions out there already and plenty of companies who want to provide products for the millions of people who don’t have a driveway. As for electricity blackouts, 80% of cars are charged at night which helps to stabilise electricity generation. The problem with wind turbines is they generate power 24 hours when most people actually use power for about 14 hours. By charging overnight you’re providing a less lumpy power requirement. Non-electric car driver here by the way and past owner of several V8s. I’m sure that if you want to drive 600 miles, stop for 3 minutes and drive another 600 miles then an electric car isn’t for you. But there’s a lot of misinformation around, mostly pedalled by people who would quite like us to keep burning oil Yet the UK reliance on imports of lithium which is a limited resource. You prepared to to go to war in the future to justify your intentions? "So…it’s OK to go to war for petrol, but not for lithium?! | |||
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"It definitely won’t be hydrogen for cars, it’s way too inefficient in terms of energy density and transporting it is a nightmare because the tiny molecules escape all the time. The mining of raw materials for batteries is a story put about by the oil companies and it’s about a hundred times smaller than the damage done by getting oil or gas out of the ground. The cost to refill isn’t much of an advantage right now compared to petrol but, funnily enough, the large companies that extract gas are very keen that electricity prices are matched to it. Electricity can be produced by renewable methods (which gas or petrol never can) and soon prices will drop. Charging can be done without a driveway, there are several solutions out there already and plenty of companies who want to provide products for the millions of people who don’t have a driveway. As for electricity blackouts, 80% of cars are charged at night which helps to stabilise electricity generation. The problem with wind turbines is they generate power 24 hours when most people actually use power for about 14 hours. By charging overnight you’re providing a less lumpy power requirement. Non-electric car driver here by the way and past owner of several V8s. I’m sure that if you want to drive 600 miles, stop for 3 minutes and drive another 600 miles then an electric car isn’t for you. But there’s a lot of misinformation around, mostly pedalled by people who would quite like us to keep burning oil Yet the UK reliance on imports of lithium which is a limited resource. You prepared to to go to war in the future to justify your intentions?
So…it’s OK to go to war for petrol, but not for lithium?!"it's a commodity that everyone seems to justify. | |||
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"It definitely won’t be hydrogen for cars, it’s way too inefficient in terms of energy density and transporting it is a nightmare because the tiny molecules escape all the time. The mining of raw materials for batteries is a story put about by the oil companies and it’s about a hundred times smaller than the damage done by getting oil or gas out of the ground. The cost to refill isn’t much of an advantage right now compared to petrol but, funnily enough, the large companies that extract gas are very keen that electricity prices are matched to it. Electricity can be produced by renewable methods (which gas or petrol never can) and soon prices will drop. Charging can be done without a driveway, there are several solutions out there already and plenty of companies who want to provide products for the millions of people who don’t have a driveway. As for electricity blackouts, 80% of cars are charged at night which helps to stabilise electricity generation. The problem with wind turbines is they generate power 24 hours when most people actually use power for about 14 hours. By charging overnight you’re providing a less lumpy power requirement. Non-electric car driver here by the way and past owner of several V8s. I’m sure that if you want to drive 600 miles, stop for 3 minutes and drive another 600 miles then an electric car isn’t for you. But there’s a lot of misinformation around, mostly pedalled by people who would quite like us to keep burning oil Yet the UK reliance on imports of lithium which is a limited resource. You prepared to to go to war in the future to justify your intentions?
So…it’s OK to go to war for petrol, but not for lithium?! it's a commodity that everyone seems to justify."Uk is not a superpower you all subjected to global markets. | |||
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"Ah yes Sweden have done 1.2 miles of electrifyed road but for the plan to work it will require a 70% reduction in transport and as for your climate change charade have a look at the cobalt and lithium mines in Africa and China and Australia and tell me how that's environmentally friendly compared to drilling for oil and gas? I didn't say anything about a climate change charade. I mentioned the climate crisis. You know, the thing that all credible scientists agree on. " Like professor daffy duck and the well known climatoagist professor mickey mouse they both signed the ippc climate change report scientists depend on funding and will find whatever thier benefactors want them to find have a look at Dr Patrick Moore (Co founder of Green peace) or Thomas selwell | |||
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"My EV is still considerably cheaper than my petrol car was (real world operating costs are halved), and that’s before you factor in the fact that we recently installed solar panels, so some of my charging is now effectively “free”. As renewable energy for electricity becomes more widespread and economies of scale can be applied, it’s going to become cheaper and cheaper, but as we exhaust fossil fuels in easily accessible reservoirs, it’s becoming more expensive to produce. In the very long-term, Hydrogen cell cars will be the best option for us, but they will require a huge investment in a whole new infrastructure to support their operation, while EVs just need an adaption/expansion of a pre-existing infrastructure. Hydrogen also has advantages for HGV, freight ships and other larger machinery which electricity is less appropriate for, as well. The problem with all of this is there’s no real appetite from governments to act as drivers for change or to force industries to make the change happen- it’s easier for them to target individual consumers and just punish us with increasing taxes for not “making the right choice” even though there’s still not really any choice available to us. It's not free though is it? Unless your solar panels were free. That's just disingenuous misrepresentation I said “free” in quotation marks- I’m not denying there wasn’t an outlay to purchase them, but guess what I do with the excess energy I don’t use…I sell it back to the grid, so at current estimates, my panels will have recouped their purchase price in 7-10 years, possibly sooner if the cost of fossil fuels used to generate most of the UK’s electricity continue to rise, making my excess capacity worth more in turn." You sell it back to the grid at a fraction of what they charge us for electricity and the problem with solar it doesn't work at night so unless your luck enough to be home all day to charge your EV then they are pointless | |||
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"My EV is still considerably cheaper than my petrol car was (real world operating costs are halved), and that’s before you factor in the fact that we recently installed solar panels, so some of my charging is now effectively “free”. As renewable energy for electricity becomes more widespread and economies of scale can be applied, it’s going to become cheaper and cheaper, but as we exhaust fossil fuels in easily accessible reservoirs, it’s becoming more expensive to produce. In the very long-term, Hydrogen cell cars will be the best option for us, but they will require a huge investment in a whole new infrastructure to support their operation, while EVs just need an adaption/expansion of a pre-existing infrastructure. Hydrogen also has advantages for HGV, freight ships and other larger machinery which electricity is less appropriate for, as well. The problem with all of this is there’s no real appetite from governments to act as drivers for change or to force industries to make the change happen- it’s easier for them to target individual consumers and just punish us with increasing taxes for not “making the right choice” even though there’s still not really any choice available to us. It's not free though is it? Unless your solar panels were free. That's just disingenuous misrepresentation I said “free” in quotation marks- I’m not denying there wasn’t an outlay to purchase them, but guess what I do with the excess energy I don’t use…I sell it back to the grid, so at current estimates, my panels will have recouped their purchase price in 7-10 years, possibly sooner if the cost of fossil fuels used to generate most of the UK’s electricity continue to rise, making my excess capacity worth more in turn. You sell it back to the grid at a fraction of what they charge us for electricity and the problem with solar it doesn't work at night so unless your luck enough to be home all day to charge your EV then they are pointless " Unless you get battery storage | |||
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"Like professor daffy duck and the well known climatoagist professor mickey mouse they both signed the ippc climate change report scientists depend on funding and will find whatever thier benefactors want them to find have a look at Dr Patrick Moore (Co founder of Green peace) or Thomas selwell" Lol. You're right. We should believe Goofy on youtube instead. In fact, the least credentials the better! | |||
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"My EV is still considerably cheaper than my petrol car was (real world operating costs are halved), and that’s before you factor in the fact that we recently installed solar panels, so some of my charging is now effectively “free”. As renewable energy for electricity becomes more widespread and economies of scale can be applied, it’s going to become cheaper and cheaper, but as we exhaust fossil fuels in easily accessible reservoirs, it’s becoming more expensive to produce. In the very long-term, Hydrogen cell cars will be the best option for us, but they will require a huge investment in a whole new infrastructure to support their operation, while EVs just need an adaption/expansion of a pre-existing infrastructure. Hydrogen also has advantages for HGV, freight ships and other larger machinery which electricity is less appropriate for, as well. The problem with all of this is there’s no real appetite from governments to act as drivers for change or to force industries to make the change happen- it’s easier for them to target individual consumers and just punish us with increasing taxes for not “making the right choice” even though there’s still not really any choice available to us. It's not free though is it? Unless your solar panels were free. That's just disingenuous misrepresentation I said “free” in quotation marks- I’m not denying there wasn’t an outlay to purchase them, but guess what I do with the excess energy I don’t use…I sell it back to the grid, so at current estimates, my panels will have recouped their purchase price in 7-10 years, possibly sooner if the cost of fossil fuels used to generate most of the UK’s electricity continue to rise, making my excess capacity worth more in turn. You sell it back to the grid at a fraction of what they charge us for electricity and the problem with solar it doesn't work at night so unless your luck enough to be home all day to charge your EV then they are pointless Unless you get battery storage" Ooowww good come back Oh except for how much energy can you store in your battery storage? Oh btw the answer is not enough! Which is why you still connect to the grid for nighttime back up There is absolutely no way the powers that be would let anyone store enough energy to run a normal standard 3 bed semi house and charge the ev every night If that were the case the government would fit solar panels everywhere and rid the uk of the 2 brand new nuclear power stations they are building right now ! I | |||
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"My EV is still considerably cheaper than my petrol car was (real world operating costs are halved), and that’s before you factor in the fact that we recently installed solar panels, so some of my charging is now effectively “free”. As renewable energy for electricity becomes more widespread and economies of scale can be applied, it’s going to become cheaper and cheaper, but as we exhaust fossil fuels in easily accessible reservoirs, it’s becoming more expensive to produce. In the very long-term, Hydrogen cell cars will be the best option for us, but they will require a huge investment in a whole new infrastructure to support their operation, while EVs just need an adaption/expansion of a pre-existing infrastructure. Hydrogen also has advantages for HGV, freight ships and other larger machinery which electricity is less appropriate for, as well. The problem with all of this is there’s no real appetite from governments to act as drivers for change or to force industries to make the change happen- it’s easier for them to target individual consumers and just punish us with increasing taxes for not “making the right choice” even though there’s still not really any choice available to us. It's not free though is it? Unless your solar panels were free. That's just disingenuous misrepresentation I said “free” in quotation marks- I’m not denying there wasn’t an outlay to purchase them, but guess what I do with the excess energy I don’t use…I sell it back to the grid, so at current estimates, my panels will have recouped their purchase price in 7-10 years, possibly sooner if the cost of fossil fuels used to generate most of the UK’s electricity continue to rise, making my excess capacity worth more in turn. You sell it back to the grid at a fraction of what they charge us for electricity and the problem with solar it doesn't work at night so unless your luck enough to be home all day to charge your EV then they are pointless Unless you get battery storage Ooowww good come back Oh except for how much energy can you store in your battery storage? Oh btw the answer is not enough! Which is why you still connect to the grid for nighttime back up There is absolutely no way the powers that be would let anyone store enough energy to run a normal standard 3 bed semi house and charge the ev every night If that were the case the government would fit solar panels everywhere and rid the uk of the 2 brand new nuclear power stations they are building right now ! I " I agree with that. If it were that easy it would already have been done. We are sleep walking ourselves into a crevice between a rock and a hard place. Imagine if Ukraine were all electric vehicles right now... How would their situation look? | |||
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" Imagine if Ukraine were all electric vehicles right now... How would their situation look? " I've been stuck in a country where the oil ran out. That wasn't much fun either. | |||
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"The car blokes I know all reckon it'll be hydrogen. I don't know anything about it though." Yes, I’d agree with them. Compressed hydrogen vehicles do exist - the Toyota Mira is probably the best example. We’re a long way off with the infrastructure however - I believe there are only six or so places you can refuel, all of which are around London IIRC. The benefits are clean emissions from the vehicle, and rapid refuelling (just like conventional ICE vehicles.) I’d expect it’s fairly simple to switch a conventional petrol station to fully hydrogen as well. Clean the underground tanks thoroughly, replace the above ground pumps, job done. (In my limited understanding…) But while the big oil companies have a str*nglehold on the market, I think we’re a couple of decades off yet. Battery electric vehicles could provide a useful (albeit expensive) stopgap. | |||
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"Technically they can’t fail sins the uk is banning petrol cars in 2030 " No the uk are not banning petrol or diesel cars !! They are banning the sale of new petrol and diesel cars !! | |||
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"The batteries cost £12,000 for 12 years . That’s £1000 a year . that’s 20 quid a week just in battery life time ( £19.2 ) " Some batteries don't last that long.. | |||
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"The car blokes I know all reckon it'll be hydrogen. I don't know anything about it though. Honda built a hydrogen car about 20 years ago and I believe it’s been trialled in USA with success I think what is holding it back is hydrogen seems to be a tad bit volatile whilst be transported Don’t hold me to that I think it was something clarkson said on top gear many years back " The very first internal combustion engine was hydrogen fuelled back in 1806! | |||
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"The car blokes I know all reckon it'll be hydrogen. I don't know anything about it though. Honda built a hydrogen car about 20 years ago and I believe it’s been trialled in USA with success I think what is holding it back is hydrogen seems to be a tad bit volatile whilst be transported Don’t hold me to that I think it was something clarkson said on top gear many years back The very first internal combustion engine was hydrogen fuelled back in 1806!" The design credited with being the first internal combustion engine was created in France in 1807 and ran on "Moss, Coal Dust, and resin". It was fitted in a boat. In 1808 François Isaac de Rivaz built a reciprocating engine which ran on Hydrogen & Oxygen was used to power a three wheeled "car"... it was undoubtedly better than a Reliant Robin | |||
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"The car blokes I know all reckon it'll be hydrogen. I don't know anything about it though. Honda built a hydrogen car about 20 years ago and I believe it’s been trialled in USA with success I think what is holding it back is hydrogen seems to be a tad bit volatile whilst be transported Don’t hold me to that I think it was something clarkson said on top gear many years back Hydrogen engines have been around a long time. You have to ask why they haven't been developed more main stream. Same reason as efficient engines haven't. " Hydrogen production is tricky and expensive. All we are doing in this search for alternatives is displacing one aspect of environmental damage for another. Yes we can do better, but there will always be environmental damage unless we return to the Middle Ages. | |||
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"The car blokes I know all reckon it'll be hydrogen. I don't know anything about it though. Honda built a hydrogen car about 20 years ago and I believe it’s been trialled in USA with success I think what is holding it back is hydrogen seems to be a tad bit volatile whilst be transported Don’t hold me to that I think it was something clarkson said on top gear many years back Hydrogen engines have been around a long time. You have to ask why they haven't been developed more main stream. Same reason as efficient engines haven't. Hydrogen production is tricky and expensive. All we are doing in this search for alternatives is displacing one aspect of environmental damage for another. Yes we can do better, but there will always be environmental damage unless we return to the Middle Ages." What we are is beholden to the energy companies who protect their patch with unscrupulous practises. Some transport methods are better than others. Imagine if car engines did 100 mpg or even more? Its possible. Just protected. Light bulbs could be designed to last forever. They are designed to fail. | |||
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"The car blokes I know all reckon it'll be hydrogen. I don't know anything about it though. Honda built a hydrogen car about 20 years ago and I believe it’s been trialled in USA with success I think what is holding it back is hydrogen seems to be a tad bit volatile whilst be transported Don’t hold me to that I think it was something clarkson said on top gear many years back Hydrogen engines have been around a long time. You have to ask why they haven't been developed more main stream. Same reason as efficient engines haven't. Hydrogen production is tricky and expensive. All we are doing in this search for alternatives is displacing one aspect of environmental damage for another. Yes we can do better, but there will always be environmental damage unless we return to the Middle Ages. What we are is beholden to the energy companies who protect their patch with unscrupulous practises. Some transport methods are better than others. Imagine if car engines did 100 mpg or even more? Its possible. Just protected. Light bulbs could be designed to last forever. They are designed to fail. " If you know how to design a lightbulb to last forever, why haven't you done it and have it on sale? | |||
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"The car blokes I know all reckon it'll be hydrogen. I don't know anything about it though. Honda built a hydrogen car about 20 years ago and I believe it’s been trialled in USA with success I think what is holding it back is hydrogen seems to be a tad bit volatile whilst be transported Don’t hold me to that I think it was something clarkson said on top gear many years back Hydrogen engines have been around a long time. You have to ask why they haven't been developed more main stream. Same reason as efficient engines haven't. Hydrogen production is tricky and expensive. All we are doing in this search for alternatives is displacing one aspect of environmental damage for another. Yes we can do better, but there will always be environmental damage unless we return to the Middle Ages. What we are is beholden to the energy companies who protect their patch with unscrupulous practises. Some transport methods are better than others. Imagine if car engines did 100 mpg or even more? Its possible. Just protected. Light bulbs could be designed to last forever. They are designed to fail. If you know how to design a lightbulb to last forever, why haven't you done it and have it on sale? " But pointless to invent an last forever lightbulb or a last forever anything As you would only sell it once to each customer Once everyone has got 1 your out of business | |||
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"there is also talk about blackouts this winter , if so, how will you charge up electric cars with no power supply on the national grid ?? " The same way you’ll fuel your ice car, you won’t but most people charge their electric cars daily and wake up with a full battery, or charge it a level they need. | |||
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"there is also talk about blackouts this winter , if so, how will you charge up electric cars with no power supply on the national grid ?? The same way you’ll fuel your ice car, you won’t but most people charge their electric cars daily and wake up with a full battery, or charge it a level they need." Yet waking up full battery having to deal with caught in traffic for 18 hrs because of a blizzard. Would you like petrol where the national guard can provide a instant resource. Or nothing because they can't. Freeze | |||
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"Oil-based fuelled cars are to be cancelled. Other types will replace them. " don't think so. | |||
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"Oil-based fuelled cars are to be cancelled. Other types will replace them. don't think so." Tell me how a blizzard shutting down a highway ev cars for 18 hours going to sustain you from freezing in sub zero environment? It can't. | |||
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"there is also talk about blackouts this winter , if so, how will you charge up electric cars with no power supply on the national grid ?? The same way you’ll fuel your ice car, you won’t but most people charge their electric cars daily and wake up with a full battery, or charge it a level they need. Yet waking up full battery having to deal with caught in traffic for 18 hrs because of a blizzard. Would you like petrol where the national guard can provide an instant resource. Or nothing because they can't. Freeze " Never been stuck for 18 hrs because of a blizzard but guess you’d not die of carbon monoxide poisoning if in an electric car!! | |||
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"there is also talk about blackouts this winter , if so, how will you charge up electric cars with no power supply on the national grid ?? The same way you’ll fuel your ice car, you won’t but most people charge their electric cars daily and wake up with a full battery, or charge it a level they need. Yet waking up full battery having to deal with caught in traffic for 18 hrs because of a blizzard. Would you like petrol where the national guard can provide an instant resource. Or nothing because they can't. Freeze Never been stuck for 18 hrs because of a blizzard but guess you’d not die of carbon monoxide poisoning if in an electric car!!" is ev instant no show me a solution you can't petrol is in that situation . | |||
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"there is also talk about blackouts this winter , if so, how will you charge up electric cars with no power supply on the national grid ?? The same way you’ll fuel your ice car, you won’t but most people charge their electric cars daily and wake up with a full battery, or charge it a level they need. Yet waking up full battery having to deal with caught in traffic for 18 hrs because of a blizzard. Would you like petrol where the national guard can provide an instant resource. Or nothing because they can't. Freeze Never been stuck for 18 hrs because of a blizzard but guess you’d not die of carbon monoxide poisoning if in an electric car!! is ev instant no show me a solution you can't petrol is in that situation ."Not being rude but don’t understand your question | |||
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"there is also talk about blackouts this winter , if so, how will you charge up electric cars with no power supply on the national grid ?? The same way you’ll fuel your ice car, you won’t but most people charge their electric cars daily and wake up with a full battery, or charge it a level they need. Yet waking up full battery having to deal with caught in traffic for 18 hrs because of a blizzard. Would you like petrol where the national guard can provide an instant resource. Or nothing because they can't. Freeze Never been stuck for 18 hrs because of a blizzard but guess you’d not die of carbon monoxide poisoning if in an electric car!! is ev instant no show me a solution you can't petrol is in that situation ."imagine 100 vehicles in sub zero temperature stuck because of a blizzard . 18 hrs are you going to wait for a rechargeable hope ? It's not feasible. It's easier to put gas in and just turn the key. | |||
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"there is also talk about blackouts this winter , if so, how will you charge up electric cars with no power supply on the national grid ?? The same way you’ll fuel your ice car, you won’t but most people charge their electric cars daily and wake up with a full battery, or charge it a level they need. Yet waking up full battery having to deal with caught in traffic for 18 hrs because of a blizzard. Would you like petrol where the national guard can provide an instant resource. Or nothing because they can't. Freeze Never been stuck for 18 hrs because of a blizzard but guess you’d not die of carbon monoxide poisoning if in an electric car!! is ev instant no show me a solution you can't petrol is in that situation . imagine 100 vehicles in sub zero temperature stuck because of a blizzard . 18 hrs are you going to wait for a rechargeable hope ? It's not feasible. It's easier to put gas in and just turn the key. "Electric cars are not for everyone but actually would work fine for the majority. As for your scenario it doesn’t make sense, neither has ran out of fuel/power and so the ev would be the safest to be in as you could use the heating without the risk of poisoning yourself. | |||
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"there is also talk about blackouts this winter , if so, how will you charge up electric cars with no power supply on the national grid ?? The same way you’ll fuel your ice car, you won’t but most people charge their electric cars daily and wake up with a full battery, or charge it a level they need. Yet waking up full battery having to deal with caught in traffic for 18 hrs because of a blizzard. Would you like petrol where the national guard can provide an instant resource. Or nothing because they can't. Freeze Never been stuck for 18 hrs because of a blizzard but guess you’d not die of carbon monoxide poisoning if in an electric car!! is ev instant no show me a solution you can't petrol is in that situation . imagine 100 vehicles in sub zero temperature stuck because of a blizzard . 18 hrs are you going to wait for a rechargeable hope ? It's not feasible. It's easier to put gas in and just turn the key.
Electric cars are not for everyone but actually would work fine for the majority. As for your scenario it doesn’t make sense, neither has ran out of fuel/power and so the ev would be the safest to be in as you could use the heating without the risk of poisoning yourself."how is the national guard in that dire scenario going to charge a ev? It is not going to happen with multiple stranded vehicles. You think we that ignorant not to realize the carbon monoxide dangers? The guard reiterates the dangers as a courtesy.  | |||
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"So follow up to the thread about Tesco now charging ££ to charge your car Is it just me or does anyone else think that the electric car is going to fail My reasons With the energy price hike I believe it’s only 1p cheaper per mile that petrol The cost of buying an ev compared to petrol Still nowhere near enough charging points in the uk They will soon be getting taxed to use the roads Although they don’t impact the environment whilst running the damage is still there from the mining for the materials the power produced for charging etc… " Sit down with a calculator. The Nissan I have runs at 4.4 miles to the kwh. It replaces a Nissan that ran at 40mpg. Even at 40p to 50p per kwh, it is still cheaper. 12,000 at 4.4 miles/kwh 2800kwh @28p on 7kw charger £784 @40p on 22kw charger £1120 I'm lucky as in contract for another 24 months at 19p at home £532. Compared to the petrol 12,000 miles at 40mpg @ £1,63/l £2300. I'm summer when £1.79/l £2500. I have Solar so most of Summer the car charges with 65% to 100% FREE electricity if car at home during the day. Otherwise, install Solar to reduce overall energy bills and offset against charging at home, at night. I've just started renting the drive space and charger here to cash in 10p/kwh that someone else pays me, which for every two days it is rented out - my charge is free. Tesco was abused by delivery drivers, big Audi etron, BMW and Mercs who would leave cars parked all day blocking others using them. It had to end. These will be getting rid as they signed up for big, expensive cars in the expectation of free charging. I had nany run ins with selfish idiots who left cars overnight or for 12 hours during the day. Taking Solar, I only pay for charging during Winter and expect around £180 this year. I use Aldi, Lidl fast chargers if out as cheapest. By renting out the charger and having Solar to contribute, I'll actually have a negative energy bill this year. Energy will come down in price one government pulls its finger out its backside and invests, not helped by withdrawal from Sizewell C today. | |||
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"So follow up to the thread about Tesco now charging ££ to charge your car Is it just me or does anyone else think that the electric car is going to fail My reasons With the energy price hike I believe it’s only 1p cheaper per mile that petrol The cost of buying an ev compared to petrol Still nowhere near enough charging points in the uk They will soon be getting taxed to use the roads Although they don’t impact the environment whilst running the damage is still there from the mining for the materials the power produced for charging etc… Sit down with a calculator. The Nissan I have runs at 4.4 miles to the kwh. It replaces a Nissan that ran at 40mpg. Even at 40p to 50p per kwh, it is still cheaper. 12,000 at 4.4 miles/kwh 2800kwh @28p on 7kw charger £784 @40p on 22kw charger £1120 I'm lucky as in contract for another 24 months at 19p at home £532. Compared to the petrol 12,000 miles at 40mpg @ £1,63/l £2300. I'm summer when £1.79/l £2500. I have Solar so most of Summer the car charges with 65% to 100% FREE electricity if car at home during the day. Otherwise, install Solar to reduce overall energy bills and offset against charging at home, at night. I've just started renting the drive space and charger here to cash in 10p/kwh that someone else pays me, which for every two days it is rented out - my charge is free. Tesco was abused by delivery drivers, big Audi etron, BMW and Mercs who would leave cars parked all day blocking others using them. It had to end. These will be getting rid as they signed up for big, expensive cars in the expectation of free charging. I had nany run ins with selfish idiots who left cars overnight or for 12 hours during the day. Taking Solar, I only pay for charging during Winter and expect around £180 this year. I use Aldi, Lidl fast chargers if out as cheapest. By renting out the charger and having Solar to contribute, I'll actually have a negative energy bill this year. Energy will come down in price one government pulls its finger out its backside and invests, not helped by withdrawal from Sizewell C today. " still doesn't solve harsh conditions . | |||
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"The batteries cost £12,000 for 12 years . That’s £1000 a year . that’s 20 quid a week just in battery life time ( £19.2 ) " A vehicle battery is deemed exhausted at 80'C capacity. Reporposed for Home Battery, a 45kw lithium battery will last up to 35years and store over 30kwh. Perfect for a green grid. | |||
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"The batteries cost £12,000 for 12 years . That’s £1000 a year . that’s 20 quid a week just in battery life time ( £19.2 ) A vehicle battery is deemed exhausted at 80'C capacity. Reporposed for Home Battery, a 45kw lithium battery will last up to 35years and store over 30kwh. Perfect for a green grid." still you can't beat a jeep With 4wd petrol powered in my climate conditions. Change my mind. | |||
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"there is also talk about blackouts this winter , if so, how will you charge up electric cars with no power supply on the national grid ?? " I have a 6kwh generator ready to power the house and charge the car. | |||
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"The batteries cost £12,000 for 12 years . That’s £1000 a year . that’s 20 quid a week just in battery life time ( £19.2 ) A vehicle battery is deemed exhausted at 80'C capacity. Reporposed for Home Battery, a 45kw lithium battery will last up to 35years and store over 30kwh. Perfect for a green grid. still you can't beat a jeep With 4wd petrol powered in my climate conditions. Change my mind. " Is green energy my savoir? No it is not. | |||
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"The batteries cost £12,000 for 12 years . That’s £1000 a year . that’s 20 quid a week just in battery life time ( £19.2 ) A vehicle battery is deemed exhausted at 80'C capacity. Reporposed for Home Battery, a 45kw lithium battery will last up to 35years and store over 30kwh. Perfect for a green grid. still you can't beat a jeep With 4wd petrol powered in my climate conditions. Change my mind. " Is green energy my savoir? No it is not. | |||
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"The batteries cost £12,000 for 12 years . That’s £1000 a year . that’s 20 quid a week just in battery life time ( £19.2 ) A vehicle battery is deemed exhausted at 80'C capacity. Reporposed for Home Battery, a 45kw lithium battery will last up to 35years and store over 30kwh. Perfect for a green grid. still you can't beat a jeep With 4wd petrol powered in my climate conditions. Change my mind. " Only idiots go out and get stuck in blizzards- they not heard of weather forecasting? | |||
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"there is also talk about blackouts this winter , if so, how will you charge up electric cars with no power supply on the national grid ?? The same way you’ll fuel your ice car, you won’t but most people charge their electric cars daily and wake up with a full battery, or charge it a level they need. Yet waking up full battery having to deal with caught in traffic for 18 hrs because of a blizzard. Would you like petrol where the national guard can provide an instant resource. Or nothing because they can't. Freeze Never been stuck for 18 hrs because of a blizzard but guess you’d not die of carbon monoxide poisoning if in an electric car!! is ev instant no show me a solution you can't petrol is in that situation . imagine 100 vehicles in sub zero temperature stuck because of a blizzard . 18 hrs are you going to wait for a rechargeable hope ? It's not feasible. It's easier to put gas in and just turn the key.
Electric cars are not for everyone but actually would work fine for the majority. As for your scenario it doesn’t make sense, neither has ran out of fuel/power and so the ev would be the safest to be in as you could use the heating without the risk of poisoning yourself. how is the national guard in that dire scenario going to charge a ev? It is not going to happen with multiple stranded vehicles. You think we that ignorant not to realize the carbon monoxide dangers? The guard reiterates the dangers as a courtesy. "I’d think many would reiterate the dangers of going out in a blizzard and warn against it! And once again I’m not being rude but I don’t think you should be thinking I think anything of you at all, ignorant or otherwise. We are lucky enough to have an ev, a van and a motorbike I enjoy them all and use the best one suited for the journey/trip/conditions. If an ev doesn’t fit into your lifestyle then that’s fine but with the popularity of them in the states I don’t think they are a joke. | |||
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"Before dissing them, as stated 80% 90% plus they are suited for. So let the 10% or 20% where its not feasible keep ICE and switch the majority. I still have a 4x4 diesel for towing a caravan and bad weather but what I save on diesel, clean air zones, justifies the EV in many other ways." You mean be practical and realistic. Nah. | |||
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"there is also talk about blackouts this winter , if so, how will you charge up electric cars with no power supply on the national grid ?? The same way you’ll fuel your ice car, you won’t but most people charge their electric cars daily and wake up with a full battery, or charge it a level they need. Yet waking up full battery having to deal with caught in traffic for 18 hrs because of a blizzard. Would you like petrol where the national guard can provide an instant resource. Or nothing because they can't. Freeze Never been stuck for 18 hrs because of a blizzard but guess you’d not die of carbon monoxide poisoning if in an electric car!! is ev instant no show me a solution you can't petrol is in that situation . imagine 100 vehicles in sub zero temperature stuck because of a blizzard . 18 hrs are you going to wait for a rechargeable hope ? It's not feasible. It's easier to put gas in and just turn the key.
Electric cars are not for everyone but actually would work fine for the majority. As for your scenario it doesn’t make sense, neither has ran out of fuel/power and so the ev would be the safest to be in as you could use the heating without the risk of poisoning yourself. how is the national guard in that dire scenario going to charge a ev? It is not going to happen with multiple stranded vehicles. You think we that ignorant not to realize the carbon monoxide dangers? The guard reiterates the dangers as a courtesy.
I’d think many would reiterate the dangers of going out in a blizzard and warn against it! And once again I’m not being rude but I don’t think you should be thinking I think anything of you at all, ignorant or otherwise.
We are lucky enough to have an ev, a van and a motorbike I enjoy them all and use the best one suited for the journey/trip/conditions. If an ev doesn’t fit into your lifestyle then that’s fine but with the popularity of them in the states I don’t think they are a joke."yet I can go anywhere in a petrol powered vehicles by carrying excess fuel . Can you do that in a a EV ? Nope. | |||
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"Before dissing them, as stated 80% 90% plus they are suited for. So let the 10% or 20% where its not feasible keep ICE and switch the majority. I still have a 4x4 diesel for towing a caravan and bad weather but what I save on diesel, clean air zones, justifies the EV in many other ways. You mean be practical and realistic. Nah. " That's your choice, I respect that. But personally, I'd have another tomorrow. | |||
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"there is also talk about blackouts this winter , if so, how will you charge up electric cars with no power supply on the national grid ?? The same way you’ll fuel your ice car, you won’t but most people charge their electric cars daily and wake up with a full battery, or charge it a level they need. Yet waking up full battery having to deal with caught in traffic for 18 hrs because of a blizzard. Would you like petrol where the national guard can provide an instant resource. Or nothing because they can't. Freeze Never been stuck for 18 hrs because of a blizzard but guess you’d not die of carbon monoxide poisoning if in an electric car!! is ev instant no show me a solution you can't petrol is in that situation . imagine 100 vehicles in sub zero temperature stuck because of a blizzard . 18 hrs are you going to wait for a rechargeable hope ? It's not feasible. It's easier to put gas in and just turn the key.
Electric cars are not for everyone but actually would work fine for the majority. As for your scenario it doesn’t make sense, neither has ran out of fuel/power and so the ev would be the safest to be in as you could use the heating without the risk of poisoning yourself. how is the national guard in that dire scenario going to charge a ev? It is not going to happen with multiple stranded vehicles. You think we that ignorant not to realize the carbon monoxide dangers? The guard reiterates the dangers as a courtesy.
I’d think many would reiterate the dangers of going out in a blizzard and warn against it! And once again I’m not being rude but I don’t think you should be thinking I think anything of you at all, ignorant or otherwise.
We are lucky enough to have an ev, a van and a motorbike I enjoy them all and use the best one suited for the journey/trip/conditions. If an ev doesn’t fit into your lifestyle then that’s fine but with the popularity of them in the states I don’t think they are a joke. yet I can go anywhere in a petrol powered vehicles by carrying excess fuel . Can you do that in a a EV ? Nope. "It’s getting a bit silly now but yes I could carry some fuel and a generator if needed (tv program Long Way Up) I could carry solar panels like Matt Damon in the Martian or, although not advised, I could get someone to tow me and it’ll actually charge the battery like a dynamo | |||
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"Services 18,000 miles Reduced wear and tear on the diesel 4.5p per mile Driving like shit off a shovel Reduced overall emissions Most the guys I have spoken to at Tesco are now using my home charger. Drop car, go to work for the day.. " lol name one ev charging station that is portable in dire situations. You can't. | |||
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"Services 18,000 miles Reduced wear and tear on the diesel 4.5p per mile Driving like shit off a shovel Reduced overall emissions Most the guys I have spoken to at Tesco are now using my home charger. Drop car, go to work for the day.. lol name one ev charging station that is portable in dire situations. You can't. " Erm, actually, I can.. Rescue services here have vans with 50kw fast chargers built in. Turn up, blow in a charge and send you off. | |||
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"Services 18,000 miles Reduced wear and tear on the diesel 4.5p per mile Driving like shit off a shovel Reduced overall emissions Most the guys I have spoken to at Tesco are now using my home charger. Drop car, go to work for the day.. lol name one ev charging station that is portable in dire situations. You can't. Erm, actually, I can.. Rescue services here have vans with 50kw fast chargers built in. Turn up, blow in a charge and send you off." prove it in a blizzard in sub zero Temps. You can't because petrol more quicker to react to a dire situation. | |||
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"Services 18,000 miles Reduced wear and tear on the diesel 4.5p per mile Driving like shit off a shovel Reduced overall emissions Most the guys I have spoken to at Tesco are now using my home charger. Drop car, go to work for the day.. lol name one ev charging station that is portable in dire situations. You can't. " It doesnt need to be a charging station a simple small portable generator would probably be sufficient for emergency use and should be able to charge from the in home charging lead | |||
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"Services 18,000 miles Reduced wear and tear on the diesel 4.5p per mile Driving like shit off a shovel Reduced overall emissions Most the guys I have spoken to at Tesco are now using my home charger. Drop car, go to work for the day.. lol name one ev charging station that is portable in dire situations. You can't. It doesnt need to be a charging station a simple small portable generator would probably be sufficient for emergency use and should be able to charge from the in home charging lead" lol again you resorting to petrol to save the day. Valentine day storm people stranded for 18 hours. How many generators do you think they needed if they were all ev to prevent them from freezing? Nope I not convinced in my current environment to go EV. | |||
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"Won't get into any arguments, now a 2 ev family, never had any range anxiety, never had any issues. Costs a LOT less than running two ICE cars, and even done multi country trips in them. Went from Midlands to Paris with in-laws who were driving ICE car, in the same time etc, total cost for journey was factors different in fuel costs... But those that don't want EV, or are holding out for hydro (won't happen mass for small domestic vehicles, will and already has for trucks etc) then that's fine, no need to fight. I can charge both of mine at home for a 10er full, kinks Renault used to cost 45quid to fill... So even if she charges twice a week (10 quid call it, actually less but...) still better than 40. Yes ultra rapids aren't cheap, but you use them rarely as a rule... Not many people travel 400miles a day... " This is good to know as I will be looking at ev for my mums next mobility car next year and cost has been one of the major factors for us to consider | |||
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"People in tower blocks going to have fun charging their cars " They can rent my charger at 30p/kwh for the electricity I pay 19.9p/kwh. Second charger due for installation and I'll be £2300 per year better off. | |||
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"Services 18,000 miles Reduced wear and tear on the diesel 4.5p per mile Driving like shit off a shovel Reduced overall emissions Most the guys I have spoken to at Tesco are now using my home charger. Drop car, go to work for the day.. lol name one ev charging station that is portable in dire situations. You can't. It doesnt need to be a charging station a simple small portable generator would probably be sufficient for emergency use and should be able to charge from the in home charging lead lol again you resorting to petrol to save the day. Valentine day storm people stranded for 18 hours. How many generators do you think they needed if they were all ev to prevent them from freezing? Nope I not convinced in my current environment to go EV." The thing is you are talking about a rare situation which to be honest with you is an even rarer situation here in the uk and as the other poster has already said recovery/break down companies are already installing fast charging equipment into thier vehicles which would allow for rapid charging, I am quite sure the national guard in the US will have considered things like this in thier emergency planning so it's kind of a non issue really. The fact of the matter is that no matter how you want to look at it our supplies of fossil fuels are finite and will at some point will run out so alternatives have to be found and if EV is the way things go (even for the time being) it has to be better than sitting there looking at a beautiful powerful V8 that you cant use because there is no fuel source for it. | |||
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"No need for generators, loads of 2.xkW packs that can be used in an emergency nowadays. So similar output to an ICE generator but much smaller and less dangerous "There we go another solution to the scenario presented and I am sure you could get more than a few of those into a military vehicle for distribution in an emergency | |||
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"The car blokes I know all reckon it'll be hydrogen. I don't know anything about it though." Synthetic fuel is the way forward. No change to infrastructure, no change to ICE cars, zero emissions. Downside, it currently costs about £15 a litre. But all the while there is money to be made from ripping the earth apart for precious commodities then it'll never see the light of day | |||
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"Services 18,000 miles Reduced wear and tear on the diesel 4.5p per mile Driving like shit off a shovel Reduced overall emissions Most the guys I have spoken to at Tesco are now using my home charger. Drop car, go to work for the day.. lol name one ev charging station that is portable in dire situations. You can't. It doesnt need to be a charging station a simple small portable generator would probably be sufficient for emergency use and should be able to charge from the in home charging lead lol again you resorting to petrol to save the day. Valentine day storm people stranded for 18 hours. How many generators do you think they needed if they were all ev to prevent them from freezing? Nope I not convinced in my current environment to go EV. The thing is you are talking about a rare situation which to be honest with you is an even rarer situation here in the uk and as the other poster has already said recovery/break down companies are already installing fast charging equipment into thier vehicles which would allow for rapid charging, I am quite sure the national guard in the US will have considered things like this in thier emergency planning so it's kind of a non issue really. The fact of the matter is that no matter how you want to look at it our supplies of fossil fuels are finite and will at some point will run out so alternatives have to be found and if EV is the way things go (even for the time being) it has to be better than sitting there looking at a beautiful powerful V8 that you cant use because there is no fuel source for it." it's not rare here. It's a normality you do not get 2 feet of snow or blizzards constantly. My environmental conditions outweigh the current conceptions of " environmentally sound " perceptions. EV is not viable. | |||
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"Anyone that's curious and wants to see the difference between a really powerful ICE car, and a powerful EV go have a look at Ken Block's latest, that Audi is absolutely mental.. Worth a watch even if your not an EV fan.. " I have seen the Vegas video and that thing is an animal, it's that instant burst of power that got me | |||
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"Services 18,000 miles Reduced wear and tear on the diesel 4.5p per mile Driving like shit off a shovel Reduced overall emissions Most the guys I have spoken to at Tesco are now using my home charger. Drop car, go to work for the day.. lol name one ev charging station that is portable in dire situations. You can't. It doesnt need to be a charging station a simple small portable generator would probably be sufficient for emergency use and should be able to charge from the in home charging lead lol again you resorting to petrol to save the day. Valentine day storm people stranded for 18 hours. How many generators do you think they needed if they were all ev to prevent them from freezing? Nope I not convinced in my current environment to go EV. The thing is you are talking about a rare situation which to be honest with you is an even rarer situation here in the uk and as the other poster has already said recovery/break down companies are already installing fast charging equipment into thier vehicles which would allow for rapid charging, I am quite sure the national guard in the US will have considered things like this in thier emergency planning so it's kind of a non issue really. The fact of the matter is that no matter how you want to look at it our supplies of fossil fuels are finite and will at some point will run out so alternatives have to be found and if EV is the way things go (even for the time being) it has to be better than sitting there looking at a beautiful powerful V8 that you cant use because there is no fuel source for it. it's not rare here. It's a normality you do not get 2 feet of snow or blizzards constantly. My environmental conditions outweigh the current conceptions of " environmentally sound " perceptions. EV is not viable." You do know the northern European countries are the biggest EV owners in the world... They get a fair bit of snow... Plus the direct wheel control and torque control of ev is probably better than 'thumpy' ice anyhow for those conditions. But having no snow here can't speak directly on it. | |||
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"Anyone that's curious and wants to see the difference between a really powerful ICE car, and a powerful EV go have a look at Ken Block's latest, that Audi is absolutely mental.. Worth a watch even if your not an EV fan.. I have seen the Vegas video and that thing is an animal, it's that instant burst of power that got me" Yeah that's the one, cracks me up how whilst going backwards it was doing 100+ mph forward burning all 4 wheels. Those FormulaEotors are monsters! | |||
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"Services 18,000 miles Reduced wear and tear on the diesel 4.5p per mile Driving like shit off a shovel Reduced overall emissions Most the guys I have spoken to at Tesco are now using my home charger. Drop car, go to work for the day.. lol name one ev charging station that is portable in dire situations. You can't. It doesnt need to be a charging station a simple small portable generator would probably be sufficient for emergency use and should be able to charge from the in home charging lead lol again you resorting to petrol to save the day. Valentine day storm people stranded for 18 hours. How many generators do you think they needed if they were all ev to prevent them from freezing? Nope I not convinced in my current environment to go EV. The thing is you are talking about a rare situation which to be honest with you is an even rarer situation here in the uk and as the other poster has already said recovery/break down companies are already installing fast charging equipment into thier vehicles which would allow for rapid charging, I am quite sure the national guard in the US will have considered things like this in thier emergency planning so it's kind of a non issue really. The fact of the matter is that no matter how you want to look at it our supplies of fossil fuels are finite and will at some point will run out so alternatives have to be found and if EV is the way things go (even for the time being) it has to be better than sitting there looking at a beautiful powerful V8 that you cant use because there is no fuel source for it. it's not rare here. It's a normality you do not get 2 feet of snow or blizzards constantly. My environmental conditions outweigh the current conceptions of " environmentally sound " perceptions. EV is not viable." I get that at the moment atleast there will be situations such as yours where the environment itself will make ev less or unsuitable for use but that will change as the technology itself progresses which it will, you only need to look at EV motorsports to see the advances that are being made, Extreme E is one I have been watching recently and having spent a fair amount of time off roading I would love to get my hands on one of their trucks. | |||
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"Self charging is the only EV you want to buy or lease even. More R n D needed on perpetual motion vehicles, but the future will be Helium 3. When they start mining the shit out of the Moon and Mars it'll be a game changer." Nuclear Fusion cars... now there's an idea | |||
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"The car blokes I know all reckon it'll be hydrogen. I don't know anything about it though. Honda built a hydrogen car about 20 years ago and I believe it’s been trialled in USA with success I think what is holding it back is hydrogen seems to be a tad bit volatile whilst be transported Don’t hold me to that I think it was something clarkson said on top gear many years back Hydrogen engines have been around a long time. You have to ask why they haven't been developed more main stream. Same reason as efficient engines haven't. Hydrogen production is tricky and expensive. All we are doing in this search for alternatives is displacing one aspect of environmental damage for another. Yes we can do better, but there will always be environmental damage unless we return to the Middle Ages. What we are is beholden to the energy companies who protect their patch with unscrupulous practises. Some transport methods are better than others. Imagine if car engines did 100 mpg or even more? Its possible. Just protected. Light bulbs could be designed to last forever. They are designed to fail. If you know how to design a lightbulb to last forever, why haven't you done it and have it on sale? But pointless to invent an last forever lightbulb or a last forever anything As you would only sell it once to each customer Once everyone has got 1 your out of business " Roughly 25 million homes in the UK and say 8 lightbulbs per home thats 200 million bulbs. At 50p profit that's £100 million profit. I could retire on that. | |||
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"The car blokes I know all reckon it'll be hydrogen. I don't know anything about it though. Honda built a hydrogen car about 20 years ago and I believe it’s been trialled in USA with success I think what is holding it back is hydrogen seems to be a tad bit volatile whilst be transported Don’t hold me to that I think it was something clarkson said on top gear many years back Hydrogen engines have been around a long time. You have to ask why they haven't been developed more main stream. Same reason as efficient engines haven't. Hydrogen production is tricky and expensive. All we are doing in this search for alternatives is displacing one aspect of environmental damage for another. Yes we can do better, but there will always be environmental damage unless we return to the Middle Ages. What we are is beholden to the energy companies who protect their patch with unscrupulous practises. Some transport methods are better than others. Imagine if car engines did 100 mpg or even more? Its possible. Just protected. Light bulbs could be designed to last forever. They are designed to fail. If you know how to design a lightbulb to last forever, why haven't you done it and have it on sale? But pointless to invent an last forever lightbulb or a last forever anything As you would only sell it once to each customer Once everyone has got 1 your out of business Roughly 25 million homes in the UK and say 8 lightbulbs per home thats 200 million bulbs. At 50p profit that's £100 million profit. I could retire on that." In 1924 there was actually a pact between the lightbulb manufacturers to reduce and standardise the average lifespan of the bulbs that they made. It was always possible to make lightbulbs that could last forever, but not good business practice to do that. There is a lightbulb in a US firestation that has been illuminated (almost) constantly since 1901 Cal | |||
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I need to retrain what I know and research something that I have no clue where to start. So, like loads of other people, I can’t be arsed so we stick to what we understand.
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"People in tower blocks going to have fun charging their cars " My apartment is on the 16th floor. Gonna need a fecking long extension lead. 
Winston | |||
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"You lot can argue the toss… if I win the lottery I am getting a Tesla model Y at least… But I have to say I am awfully tempted by all the reviews the new MG4 is getting…. Even the top spec is just about 30000… and the basics is around 25k So I am about to say something really controversial… if the UK did the same EV discount as the US are doing, I would probably go out and get one! "Oh yes. If I could afford one, no doubt I'd trade my mondeo diesel for a shiny tesla. Word of warning though... When I bought my diesel the UK gov were pushing diesel for some reason.. A few years later they are kicking it to the kerb so trends change depending who is paying the baksheesh | |||
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"The car blokes I know all reckon it'll be hydrogen. I don't know anything about it though. Honda built a hydrogen car about 20 years ago and I believe it’s been trialled in USA with success I think what is holding it back is hydrogen seems to be a tad bit volatile whilst be transported Don’t hold me to that I think it was something clarkson said on top gear many years back Hydrogen engines have been around a long time. You have to ask why they haven't been developed more main stream. Same reason as efficient engines haven't. Hydrogen production is tricky and expensive. All we are doing in this search for alternatives is displacing one aspect of environmental damage for another. Yes we can do better, but there will always be environmental damage unless we return to the Middle Ages. What we are is beholden to the energy companies who protect their patch with unscrupulous practises. Some transport methods are better than others. Imagine if car engines did 100 mpg or even more? Its possible. Just protected. Light bulbs could be designed to last forever. They are designed to fail. If you know how to design a lightbulb to last forever, why haven't you done it and have it on sale? But pointless to invent an last forever lightbulb or a last forever anything As you would only sell it once to each customer Once everyone has got 1 your out of business Roughly 25 million homes in the UK and say 8 lightbulbs per home thats 200 million bulbs. At 50p profit that's £100 million profit. I could retire on that. In 1924 there was actually a pact between the lightbulb manufacturers to reduce and standardise the average lifespan of the bulbs that they made. It was always possible to make lightbulbs that could last forever, but not good business practice to do that. There is a lightbulb in a US firestation that has been illuminated (almost) constantly since 1901 Cal" Illuminated constantly, or in use constantly? It's a very different thing. Constant on/off-ing is part of what reduces the lifespan of traditional bulbs (tungsten filament). If never ending bulbs were a thing, surely SOMEONE would have made a few, just for proof of purpose? | |||
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"My workplace has 20 free charging points. But about 4000 employees." Our workplace has none. And the multi storey next door that's run by a private company has none. And there are none within reasonable radius of the workplace. | |||
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"The car blokes I know all reckon it'll be hydrogen. I don't know anything about it though. Honda built a hydrogen car about 20 years ago and I believe it’s been trialled in USA with success I think what is holding it back is hydrogen seems to be a tad bit volatile whilst be transported Don’t hold me to that I think it was something clarkson said on top gear many years back Hydrogen engines have been around a long time. You have to ask why they haven't been developed more main stream. Same reason as efficient engines haven't. Hydrogen production is tricky and expensive. All we are doing in this search for alternatives is displacing one aspect of environmental damage for another. Yes we can do better, but there will always be environmental damage unless we return to the Middle Ages. What we are is beholden to the energy companies who protect their patch with unscrupulous practises. Some transport methods are better than others. Imagine if car engines did 100 mpg or even more? Its possible. Just protected. Light bulbs could be designed to last forever. They are designed to fail. If you know how to design a lightbulb to last forever, why haven't you done it and have it on sale? But pointless to invent an last forever lightbulb or a last forever anything As you would only sell it once to each customer Once everyone has got 1 your out of business Roughly 25 million homes in the UK and say 8 lightbulbs per home thats 200 million bulbs. At 50p profit that's £100 million profit. I could retire on that. In 1924 there was actually a pact between the lightbulb manufacturers to reduce and standardise the average lifespan of the bulbs that they made. It was always possible to make lightbulbs that could last forever, but not good business practice to do that. There is a lightbulb in a US firestation that has been illuminated (almost) constantly since 1901 Cal Illuminated constantly, or in use constantly? It's a very different thing. Constant on/off-ing is part of what reduces the lifespan of traditional bulbs (tungsten filament). If never ending bulbs were a thing, surely SOMEONE would have made a few, just for proof of purpose?" From what I remember, the bulb was manufactured in the 1880's and used normally for a while until someone realised that it had been working for an unusually long time. It apparently has its own 24/7 webcam. There are many examples of long running light bulbs but it wouldn't be good business practice to make your product last forever as you'd soon run out of customers. Cal | |||
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"Electric cars are a fantastic toy for the wealthy, the torque is phenomenal. They can also, at an individual level, sometimes meet the needs of the average driver, ranges are better nowadays than they were. But, and it's a huge but, as an actual replacement for the internal combustion engine they are a technological dead end. Not only that, but they are known to be, all of the facts are there, but we are encouraged to ignore them because if we pay attention to them we might notice what's coming next. A small list of reasons they are a bad move: 1: Top of the tree - Over-reliance on a finite resource that we just don't have enough of. Lithium. There simply isn't enough for all current cars on the road to be replaced by electric. 2: Cost - As a direct result of point 1, the costs aren't going to come down. They may do for a short period after acceptance has become widespread but before the stocks of lithium start to dry up. After that they aren't going to be affordable to anyone with less than double the median salary, probably more. 3: Resale value - Depreciation is going to be brutal on these. The battery being the most expensive component, and a component which WILL either fail outright or substantially reduce in effectiveness to the point of being worthless in a MUCH shorter lifespan than an ICE car. The working class won't be able to just buy a working 10 year old model to get them to their jobs, because a 10 year old model WONT get them to their jobs as the range drops to 30 miles. 4: Environment. Electric may be clean at the point of use (or not, some studies have shown them to emit more VOC than expected) but until we start to get a grip on energy independence and clean energy they are effectively replacing petrochemical power at point of use with petrochemical use at point of generation with an inefficient, expensive and ecologically damaging intermediary of lithium shoved in the middle. It's not immediately obvious to me that coal powered cars should make a comeback, but that seems to ultimately be what electric cars without substantial nuclear investment are going to look like. 5: Mining - Lithium mining, even if we had enough of it, which we don't, is ecologically devastating. Potentially more so on a local level than oil drilling. The vision that everyone has for 2030 when ICE is banned is badly wrong. It isn't going to mean a gradual transition for everyone to electric cars. It's going to mean the working class having to hold on for dear life to their ICE for as long as they can, followed by the rich driving their electric cars on almost entirely empty roads because everyone has been deliberately priced off them and can't get to work except via 3 different buses and have no work life balance. " ^^ I’ll go with this poster. Thank you for the insight | |||
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"Electric cars are a fantastic toy for the wealthy, the torque is phenomenal. They can also, at an individual level, sometimes meet the needs of the average driver, ranges are better nowadays than they were. But, and it's a huge but, as an actual replacement for the internal combustion engine they are a technological dead end. Not only that, but they are known to be, all of the facts are there, but we are encouraged to ignore them because if we pay attention to them we might notice what's coming next. A small list of reasons they are a bad move: 1: Top of the tree - Over-reliance on a finite resource that we just don't have enough of. Lithium. There simply isn't enough for all current cars on the road to be replaced by electric. 2: Cost - As a direct result of point 1, the costs aren't going to come down. They may do for a short period after acceptance has become widespread but before the stocks of lithium start to dry up. After that they aren't going to be affordable to anyone with less than double the median salary, probably more. 3: Resale value - Depreciation is going to be brutal on these. The battery being the most expensive component, and a component which WILL either fail outright or substantially reduce in effectiveness to the point of being worthless in a MUCH shorter lifespan than an ICE car. The working class won't be able to just buy a working 10 year old model to get them to their jobs, because a 10 year old model WONT get them to their jobs as the range drops to 30 miles. 4: Environment. Electric may be clean at the point of use (or not, some studies have shown them to emit more VOC than expected) but until we start to get a grip on energy independence and clean energy they are effectively replacing petrochemical power at point of use with petrochemical use at point of generation with an inefficient, expensive and ecologically damaging intermediary of lithium shoved in the middle. It's not immediately obvious to me that coal powered cars should make a comeback, but that seems to ultimately be what electric cars without substantial nuclear investment are going to look like. 5: Mining - Lithium mining, even if we had enough of it, which we don't, is ecologically devastating. Potentially more so on a local level than oil drilling. The vision that everyone has for 2030 when ICE is banned is badly wrong. It isn't going to mean a gradual transition for everyone to electric cars. It's going to mean the working class having to hold on for dear life to their ICE for as long as they can, followed by the rich driving their electric cars on almost entirely empty roads because everyone has been deliberately priced off them and can't get to work except via 3 different buses and have no work life balance. " Some very good points made here and sadly they never seem to get discussed. I think evs are just a fad a bit like 3d tv. T | |||
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"The car blokes I know all reckon it'll be hydrogen. I don't know anything about it though. Honda built a hydrogen car about 20 years ago and I believe it’s been trialled in USA with success I think what is holding it back is hydrogen seems to be a tad bit volatile whilst be transported Don’t hold me to that I think it was something clarkson said on top gear many years back Hydrogen engines have been around a long time. You have to ask why they haven't been developed more main stream. Same reason as efficient engines haven't. Hydrogen production is tricky and expensive. All we are doing in this search for alternatives is displacing one aspect of environmental damage for another. Yes we can do better, but there will always be environmental damage unless we return to the Middle Ages. What we are is beholden to the energy companies who protect their patch with unscrupulous practises. Some transport methods are better than others. Imagine if car engines did 100 mpg or even more? Its possible. Just protected. Light bulbs could be designed to last forever. They are designed to fail. If you know how to design a lightbulb to last forever, why haven't you done it and have it on sale? But pointless to invent an last forever lightbulb or a last forever anything As you would only sell it once to each customer Once everyone has got 1 your out of business Roughly 25 million homes in the UK and say 8 lightbulbs per home thats 200 million bulbs. At 50p profit that's £100 million profit. I could retire on that. In 1924 there was actually a pact between the lightbulb manufacturers to reduce and standardise the average lifespan of the bulbs that they made. It was always possible to make lightbulbs that could last forever, but not good business practice to do that. There is a lightbulb in a US firestation that has been illuminated (almost) constantly since 1901 Cal Illuminated constantly, or in use constantly? It's a very different thing. Constant on/off-ing is part of what reduces the lifespan of traditional bulbs (tungsten filament). If never ending bulbs were a thing, surely SOMEONE would have made a few, just for proof of purpose?" I'm only repeating what a director of osram told me when I was renting his house 30 years ago. When we can design a TV that lasts for 30 years makes you wonder why light bulbs go poof after a year or two. Even the 10000 hours ones. | |||
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"The car blokes I know all reckon it'll be hydrogen. I don't know anything about it though. Honda built a hydrogen car about 20 years ago and I believe it’s been trialled in USA with success I think what is holding it back is hydrogen seems to be a tad bit volatile whilst be transported Don’t hold me to that I think it was something clarkson said on top gear many years back Hydrogen engines have been around a long time. You have to ask why they haven't been developed more main stream. Same reason as efficient engines haven't. Hydrogen production is tricky and expensive. All we are doing in this search for alternatives is displacing one aspect of environmental damage for another. Yes we can do better, but there will always be environmental damage unless we return to the Middle Ages. What we are is beholden to the energy companies who protect their patch with unscrupulous practises. Some transport methods are better than others. Imagine if car engines did 100 mpg or even more? Its possible. Just protected. Light bulbs could be designed to last forever. They are designed to fail. If you know how to design a lightbulb to last forever, why haven't you done it and have it on sale? But pointless to invent an last forever lightbulb or a last forever anything As you would only sell it once to each customer Once everyone has got 1 your out of business Roughly 25 million homes in the UK and say 8 lightbulbs per home thats 200 million bulbs. At 50p profit that's £100 million profit. I could retire on that. In 1924 there was actually a pact between the lightbulb manufacturers to reduce and standardise the average lifespan of the bulbs that they made. It was always possible to make lightbulbs that could last forever, but not good business practice to do that. There is a lightbulb in a US firestation that has been illuminated (almost) constantly since 1901 Cal Illuminated constantly, or in use constantly? It's a very different thing. Constant on/off-ing is part of what reduces the lifespan of traditional bulbs (tungsten filament). If never ending bulbs were a thing, surely SOMEONE would have made a few, just for proof of purpose? I'm only repeating what a director of osram told me when I was renting his house 30 years ago. When we can design a TV that lasts for 30 years makes you wonder why light bulbs go poof after a year or two. Even the 10000 hours ones. " You must have bought some shoddy bulbs. Ours last for years and years. | |||
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"Something else to think about. I am very careful walking to/from car in supermarket. An electric car was suddenly at my shoulder overtaking before I even heard it. Safety is going to be a huge concern." They need bells, like cats.Or maybe someoene walking front of them with a red flag.. | |||
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"Something else to think about. I am very careful walking to/from car in supermarket. An electric car was suddenly at my shoulder overtaking before I even heard it. Safety is going to be a huge concern." Great for squashing rats, I've has 4 in the last 2 months. They don't hear you coming, a quick swerve and bump-bump. Squisho'd. As for fad, no - was a decision based on facts. Cheap running costs (no tax, clean air zones) Few parts to wear out Cheap to travel Those that criticise, I've heard all the arguments before. The real life experience is nothing was others Chinese Whisper's exclaim. Yes, long drives, need to plan charging stops, 35 minute fast charge is just enough to grab a coffee break and be back on the road. How many times have you struck up conversation at a petrol pump? Charging, I've met and spoke to some great people at chargers killing time while waiting just like myself. Each to their own but unless you've actually driven one, don't proclaim the negatives - there are millions of EVs out there. | |||
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"The day I’m forced to buy an electric car will hopefully be the same day I’m too old to drive and have to hand my licence in "I’m with you on this !! | |||
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"Something else to think about. I am very careful walking to/from car in supermarket. An electric car was suddenly at my shoulder overtaking before I even heard it. Safety is going to be a huge concern. Great for squashing rats, I've has 4 in the last 2 months. They don't hear you coming, a quick swerve and bump-bump. Squisho'd. As for fad, no - was a decision based on facts. Cheap running costs (no tax, clean air zones) Few parts to wear out Cheap to travel Those that criticise, I've heard all the arguments before. The real life experience is nothing was others Chinese Whisper's exclaim. Yes, long drives, need to plan charging stops, 35 minute fast charge is just enough to grab a coffee break and be back on the road. How many times have you struck up conversation at a petrol pump? Charging, I've met and spoke to some great people at chargers killing time while waiting just like myself. Each to their own but unless you've actually driven one, don't proclaim the negatives - there are millions of EVs out there. " Wish I could afford one. 120 mile range would cover about 95 % of my journeys. And spending less to run makes sense. As for cheap to run.. True at the moment. As they are being subsidised by everyone else. There will come a tipping point when all the fuel duty the gov used to collect from petrol drops when evs are more popular. | |||
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" hey won't be allowed to fail. They will be subsidised until they are the only option. Too many people politicians and business have too much to lose for any other outcome. " Exaclty this. Even if they are not the best option, it's the only option that will be on the table for the majority. There are so many problems with the whole electric and the lack of infrastructure it is an unviable option at the moment for most people. not to mention the added pollution at source of the electric, at the power station, you just move the pollution from the road to the power station, so there are not zero emission. Let's not forget too when we are facing blackouts, the extra burden on the whole grid as people plug their cars in to charge, while many can't even put the lights on. It may be the solution but as it is now its a country mile away from being the car for everyone. | |||
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" EV is coming get used to it And the sooner we all transition the better it will be for all. " That's great in principle, but as we know, it's not so easy for everyone. Anyone without a garage or driveway will struggle with charging, Anyone who lives in a rural location could have range anxieties, and people who need specific vehicles such as vans and 4x4s will have little or no suitable options. Then there's obviously the purchase price to consider, that on it's own excludes a large percentage of motorists. Electric IS definitely a big part of the future of motoring, but it's still far away for many. I personally need a van due to being a gigging drummer. There's literally 3 vans currently available to buy that match the size of my current van, the best range of the three is 206 miles and they range from £46,000 to £65,000 for the base models (including vat) Cal | |||
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"Let's not forget too when we are facing blackouts, the extra burden on the whole grid as people plug their cars in to charge, while many can't even put the lights on. It may be the solution but as it is now its a country mile away from being the car for everyone. " That is a false argument because the majority of ev owners are charging cars at the least peak times (overnight) The quickest access availability answer would be for Tesla to make their network available to everyone! (Tesla could just make the cost cheaper for their vehicles to still give them an advantage!) | |||
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"So follow up to the thread about Tesco now charging ££ to charge your car Is it just me or does anyone else think that the electric car is going to fail My reasons With the energy price hike I believe it’s only 1p cheaper per mile that petrol The cost of buying an ev compared to petrol Still nowhere near enough charging points in the uk They will soon be getting taxed to use the roads Although they don’t impact the environment whilst running the damage is still there from the mining for the materials the power produced for charging etc… Yep. Only those with driveways can change at home. Given there are often queues at filling stations and you can put enough fuel in to drive 600 miles in about 3 minutes then there'll be carnage when there are queues to charge up. The infrastructure will never be there. They can't even fix pot holes efficiently now. How can they ever put in enough charging points to replace ICE cars?
A"actually you are quite wrong there are currently 10 times more charge points in the uk than there are petrol pumps.and with 17% of those charge points totally free of charge who wouldn't want to own one .I own one already and ordered another yesterday .also from January 1st 2023 all house sales with parking outside or with a driveway must have a charge point installed before the house sale can take place ...the petrol evolution is on borrowed time | |||
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"Should get 25 years out of a panel these days, I’d love for people to open there minds to it more as what return would you get if you spend 15k on a new kitchen or car for instance. " Have you tried cooking your supper on a solar panel? | |||
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"Im dreading the day im priced out of having my old motors Thought currently yea very slightly their cheaper to run but how long will this "said" electric car run for? Yes old cars arnt the best for the environment but they last a hell of a lot longer and oh yeah you can fix the fuckes "My old nissan leaf I use to go to and from work is currently on 93,000 miles and as clean as a whistle me mecnically and batteries are spot on | |||
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"So follow up to the thread about Tesco now charging ££ to charge your car Is it just me or does anyone else think that the electric car is going to fail My reasons With the energy price hike I believe it’s only 1p cheaper per mile that petrol The cost of buying an ev compared to petrol Still nowhere near enough charging points in the uk They will soon be getting taxed to use the roads Although they don’t impact the environment whilst running the damage is still there from the mining for the materials the power produced for charging etc… Yep. Only those with driveways can change at home. Given there are often queues at filling stations and you can put enough fuel in to drive 600 miles in about 3 minutes then there'll be carnage when there are queues to charge up. The infrastructure will never be there. They can't even fix pot holes efficiently now. How can they ever put in enough charging points to replace ICE cars?
Aactually you are quite wrong there are currently 10 times more charge points in the uk than there are petrol pumps.and with 17% of those charge points totally free of charge who wouldn't want to own one .I own one already and ordered another yesterday .also from January 1st 2023 all house sales with parking outside or with a driveway must have a charge point installed before the house sale can take place ...the petrol evolution is on borrowed time"Where are all these EV charge points? They are certainly nowhere near here. Even in the city centre of Manchester, there are very few EV points unless you pay to park in a specific car park. There are none in the multi storey next to our workplace, none at the workplace and none within any kind of reasonable radius where you could leave your car for the working day. | |||
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"Should get 25 years out of a panel these days, I’d love for people to open there minds to it more as what return would you get if you spend 15k on a new kitchen or car for instance. Have you tried cooking your supper on a solar panel? " | |||
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"Let's not forget too when we are facing blackouts, the extra burden on the whole grid as people plug their cars in to charge, while many can't even put the lights on. It may be the solution but as it is now its a country mile away from being the car for everyone. That is a false argument because the majority of ev owners are charging cars at the least peak times (overnight) The quickest access availability answer would be for Tesla to make their network available to everyone! (Tesla could just make the cost cheaper for their vehicles to still give them an advantage!) " The nearest Tesla charge point to us is 8 miles away, in the opposite direction to where we need to go for work. | |||
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"We got a 30 year guarantee on our panels that they would produce no less than 80% efficiency... " 80% of what? | |||
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