FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Protest or Vandalism?

Protest or Vandalism?

By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

So these just the stop and rebellion groups seem to just be running a muck and doing whatever they like and causing a lot of damage Whilst not really achieving anything.

Do you have sympathy with what they are doing? Do you think it will achieve anything or do you think this is just an excuse for bad behaviour and criminality under the guise of protesting?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Criminal damage is not protesting.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I have no sympathy for them at all and I'm very happy that people have started dragging them out of the way. Absolute tools, they should get a job.

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By *phroditeWoman over a year ago

(She/ her) in Sensualityland

Did you mean "running amok" - I was just wondering if that was a typo.

So, I believe that generalisations are never a great way to start a conversation because it means you automatically put all people into one category or another.

In this case those that are for protests are then automatically assumed to also be in favour of some of the actions (I am not but I do support some of the protests)

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By *aitonelMan over a year ago

Travelling

I said this in the other similar thread.

"It's a tricky one. Protesting is meant to gather attention, cause a little disruption to shake things up.

The problem is more often than not some (most?) protests of late are done in a way which do not paint you (the protester) in a very good manner. It turns people away from your cause because you are an annoyance. Zero charisma and unable to rally people with inspiring words and insights.

Part of the blame also falls on that it is so easy for the general public to turn a blind eye to things that do need changing. Dig head in the sand and not worry until it may be too late. No immediate threat, doesn't matter."

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The whole point of stunts like this is to gain popular support. So do it against a target that is relatable to the problem you want solved. What's the link here? Oil painting? Ridiculous. Zero sympathy likewise, stunts like this harm your cause and do not help.

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By *phroditeWoman over a year ago

(She/ her) in Sensualityland

"I have no sympathy for them at all and I'm very happy that people have started dragging them out of the way. Absolute tools, they should get a job."

I have a full-time job (an all my friends with similar views work full-time) and I still support some of the goals of environmental and climate change groups. I do not support violence or criminal action though.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I think lots of things but one thing is that social unrest and disorder like we see here is an important way to express discontentment.

You can’t convince the State to take action, you have to force them to. The only thing at that true meaningful revolutionary change is achieved is through action.

Anyway sorry for that revolutionary call to action. What we’re we talking about again?

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Did you mean "running amok" - I was just wondering if that was a typo.

So, I believe that generalisations are never a great way to start a conversation because it means you automatically put all people into one category or another.

In this case those that are for protests are then automatically assumed to also be in favour of some of the actions (I am not but I do support some of the protests)

You knew exactly what I meant but thank you for pointing out my error!

It's not a generalisation! These things have been happening today alone, Somebody has poured paint over the New Scotland yard sign And ruined a Beautiful painting.

The reason I haven't mentioned a specific group is because I don't know what any of them actually stand for anymore. Or they do is cause a nuisance and vandalism couldn't tell you what any of them actually want to achieve.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I think lots of things but one thing is that social unrest and disorder like we see here is an important way to express discontentment.

You can’t convince the State to take action, you have to force them to. The only thing at that true meaningful revolutionary change is achieved is through action.

Anyway sorry for that revolutionary call to action. What we’re we talking about again?"

I’d agree if we protested like the French. Sitting on a motorway or disrupting a football match doesn’t really get the message across.

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By *igNick1381Man over a year ago

BRIDGEND

"Did you mean "running amok" - I was just wondering if that was a typo.

So, I believe that generalisations are never a great way to start a conversation because it means you automatically put all people into one category or another.

In this case those that are for protests are then automatically assumed to also be in favour of some of the actions (I am not but I do support some of the protests)

Amok amok amok

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I have no sympathy for them at all and I'm very happy that people have started dragging them out of the way. Absolute tools, they should get a job.

Would you or your friends sit blocking the road or superglue yourselves to trains?

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By *dwalu2Couple over a year ago

Bristol

"So these just the stop and rebellion groups seem to just be running a muck and doing whatever they like and causing a lot of damage Whilst not really achieving anything.

Do you have sympathy with what they are doing? Do you think it will achieve anything or do you think this is just an excuse for bad behaviour and criminality under the guise of protesting? "

These groups should be running the country - the current cabinet is just an excuse for bad behaviour and criminality under the guise of government.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"The whole point of stunts like this is to gain popular support. So do it against a target that is relatable to the problem you want solved. What's the link here? Oil painting? Ridiculous. Zero sympathy likewise, stunts like this harm your cause and do not help. "

This is exactly my thinking and also their messaging is very unclear as I have no idea what the ultimate goals of any of these groups are.

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By *phroditeWoman over a year ago

(She/ her) in Sensualityland

"Did you mean "running amok" - I was just wondering if that was a typo.

So, I believe that generalisations are never a great way to start a conversation because it means you automatically put all people into one category or another.

In this case those that are for protests are then automatically assumed to also be in favour of some of the actions (I am not but I do support some of the protests)

You knew exactly what I meant but thank you for pointing out my error!

It's not a generalisation! These things have been happening today alone, Somebody has poured paint over the New Scotland yard sign And ruined a Beautiful painting.

I agree with you that it is not ok to damage property, art etc - it does not help their case either.

And when you say you do not know what they stand for then that is a problem. They need to become much better at galvanising their message and get the population on board.

PS No, I was not sure re "amok".... no offense intended.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

I would imagine when people protested about abolition of the sl#ve trade or for women to get the vote there would have been similar thoughts but peaceful protest works and should not be binned because some cross a line into none lawful behaviours..

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I think lots of things but one thing is that social unrest and disorder like we see here is an important way to express discontentment.

You can’t convince the State to take action, you have to force them to. The only thing at that true meaningful revolutionary change is achieved is through action.

Anyway sorry for that revolutionary call to action. What we’re we talking about again?

I’d agree if we protested like the French. Sitting on a motorway or disrupting a football match doesn’t really get the message across."

This.

Stopping emergency vehicles getting through and sick children getting to hospital appointments doesn't achieve anything other than the public very quickly turning against what could be a very worthwhile cause.

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By *phroditeWoman over a year ago

(She/ her) in Sensualityland

"I have no sympathy for them at all and I'm very happy that people have started dragging them out of the way. Absolute tools, they should get a job.

Would you or your friends sit blocking the road or superglue yourselves to trains? "

I thought I had made that clear - no, we would not. When you speak to XR for example they ask you what you consider criminal damage or acceptable behaviour. You can choose what action you are happy to participate in.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"So these just the stop and rebellion groups seem to just be running a muck and doing whatever they like and causing a lot of damage Whilst not really achieving anything.

Do you have sympathy with what they are doing? Do you think it will achieve anything or do you think this is just an excuse for bad behaviour and criminality under the guise of protesting?

These groups should be running the country - the current cabinet is just an excuse for bad behaviour and criminality under the guise of government."

That is completely different and not even comparable. Our current government is a shambles however they are not The moment breaking the law.

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By *phroditeWoman over a year ago

(She/ her) in Sensualityland

"I would imagine when people protested about abolition of the sl#ve trade or for women to get the vote there would have been similar thoughts but peaceful protest works and should not be binned because some cross a line into none lawful behaviours..

Exactly - not tarring everybody with the same brush.

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By *dwalu2Couple over a year ago

Bristol

This is exactly my thinking and also their messaging is very unclear as I have no idea what the ultimate goals of any of these groups are. "

What actions have you taken to try and understand their ultimate goals?

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I have no sympathy for them at all and I'm very happy that people have started dragging them out of the way. Absolute tools, they should get a job.

Would you or your friends sit blocking the road or superglue yourselves to trains?

No that certainly was not clear from your comment.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Exactly - not tarring everybody with the same brush."

Its not though because they targeted specific targets and people and had a very clear message these groups do not.

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By *phroditeWoman over a year ago

(She/ her) in Sensualityland

"So these just the stop and rebellion groups seem to just be running a muck and doing whatever they like and causing a lot of damage Whilst not really achieving anything.

Do you have sympathy with what they are doing? Do you think it will achieve anything or do you think this is just an excuse for bad behaviour and criminality under the guise of protesting?

These groups should be running the country - the current cabinet is just an excuse for bad behaviour and criminality under the guise of government.

That is completely different and not even comparable. Our current government is a shambles however they are not The moment breaking the law. "

Well, Boris managed to do that single-handedly but ok, I hear what you are saying overall.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

This is exactly my thinking and also their messaging is very unclear as I have no idea what the ultimate goals of any of these groups are.

What actions have you taken to try and understand their ultimate goals?"

Of listened to them on radio stations and all they do is usually shout and try and be rude to the presenter, I have read their mission statements and still don't have a clue it seems to me they are just calling for civil unrest. Also in some cases what they are asking for is absolutely impossible for any government to do.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"So these just the stop and rebellion groups seem to just be running a muck and doing whatever they like and causing a lot of damage Whilst not really achieving anything.

Do you have sympathy with what they are doing? Do you think it will achieve anything or do you think this is just an excuse for bad behaviour and criminality under the guise of protesting?

These groups should be running the country - the current cabinet is just an excuse for bad behaviour and criminality under the guise of government.

That is completely different and not even comparable. Our current government is a shambles however they are not The moment breaking the law.

Well, Boris managed to do that single-handedly but ok, I hear what you are saying overall.

And Boris was got rid of there is an anything we can do about these people who are disrupting the lives of ordinary people that have no power whatsoever to do any of the things they are asking for.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

“Do you think this is just an excuse for bad behaviour and criminality under the guise of protesting?”

Yes I do think it is. It’s absolutely disgusting!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Criminal damage is not protesting.

Like in an argument. The minute you've punched someone you've lost.

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By *phroditeWoman over a year ago

(She/ her) in Sensualityland

"I have no sympathy for them at all and I'm very happy that people have started dragging them out of the way. Absolute tools, they should get a job.

Would you or your friends sit blocking the road or superglue yourselves to trains?

No that certainly was not clear from your comment. "

I thought that comment above..."I do not support violence or criminal action though." was signalling that I do not support any form of violence or criminal behaviour?

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By *dwalu2Couple over a year ago

Bristol

"So these just the stop and rebellion groups seem to just be running a muck and doing whatever they like and causing a lot of damage Whilst not really achieving anything.

Do you have sympathy with what they are doing? Do you think it will achieve anything or do you think this is just an excuse for bad behaviour and criminality under the guise of protesting?

These groups should be running the country - the current cabinet is just an excuse for bad behaviour and criminality under the guise of government.

That is completely different and not even comparable. Our current government is a shambles however they are not The moment breaking the law. "

Members of the government have broken the law on several occasions - the last prime minister and members of his cabinet broke Covid laws, amongst those we know about. It’s naive to assume they are not breaking the law on a regular basis.

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By *phroditeWoman over a year ago

(She/ her) in Sensualityland

This is exactly my thinking and also their messaging is very unclear as I have no idea what the ultimate goals of any of these groups are.

What actions have you taken to try and understand their ultimate goals?

Who are "they" specifically? Are you referring to XR?

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By *phroditeWoman over a year ago

(She/ her) in Sensualityland

"Criminal damage is not protesting.

Like in an argument. The minute you've punched someone you've lost. "
Exactly. The moment you do that, you have also lost any moral high ground you MAY have had.

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By *phroditeWoman over a year ago

(She/ her) in Sensualityland

"So these just the stop and rebellion groups seem to just be running a muck and doing whatever they like and causing a lot of damage Whilst not really achieving anything.

Do you have sympathy with what they are doing? Do you think it will achieve anything or do you think this is just an excuse for bad behaviour and criminality under the guise of protesting?

These groups should be running the country - the current cabinet is just an excuse for bad behaviour and criminality under the guise of government.

That is completely different and not even comparable. Our current government is a shambles however they are not The moment breaking the law.

Well, Boris managed to do that single-handedly but ok, I hear what you are saying overall.

And Boris was got rid of there is an anything we can do about these people who are disrupting the lives of ordinary people that have no power whatsoever to do any of the things they are asking for. "
I genuinely hear you and empathise with you there. That it is not fair to prevent a mum from getting her kids to school on time or to stop an ambulance etc.

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By *aitonelMan over a year ago

Travelling

Present day, peaceful protests don't work the same as they once did. The world is a more selfish place, people shut off from the world as a whole and mostly focus on what suits themselves.

I don't agree with the protesters methods but look how quickly people look towards being inconvenienced instead of what is being protested. Which is partially an issue with the method itself.

If it were a peaceful protest the only change you would see is people would change their Facebook border, or some filter shows up on a profile pic "I support this" but not actually do anything to help the cause.

Again their methods don't align well with what they are supporting, nor do I agree with said methods, but the alternatives are not as effective as people make out either.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"“Do you think this is just an excuse for bad behaviour and criminality under the guise of protesting?”

Yes I do think it is. It’s absolutely disgusting!"

For me the sir Tom Moore stunt really was disgusting and absolutely no excusing that.

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By *dwalu2Couple over a year ago

Bristol

"Criminal damage is not protesting.

Like in an argument. The minute you've punched someone you've lost. Exactly. The moment you do that, you have also lost any moral high ground you MAY have had."

It’s a spurious argument that seeks to remove the power of protest in favour of accepting the status quo. The vote for women in Britain and equal rights for black people in the US were both won as a direct result of violent protest, and breaking laws.

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By *phroditeWoman over a year ago

(She/ her) in Sensualityland

Present day, peaceful protests don't work the same as they once did. The world is a more selfish place, people shut off from the world as a whole and mostly focus on what suits themselves.

I don't agree with the protesters methods but look how quickly people look towards being inconvenienced instead of what is being protested. Which is partially an issue with the method itself.

Again their methods don't align well with what they are supporting, nor do I agree with said methods, but the alternatives are not as effective as people make out either. "
Unfortunately you are right.

The proper way would be via the ballot box but it takes (too) long for effective change to happen. Better to find sponsors maybe, there are some genuine philanthropists who do support the environmental changes we need to make for our children and grandchildren.

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By *pinnakerMan over a year ago

bristol

Action like this will only strengthen a government’s rationale for bringing in more control measures for protesting and reduce the normal persons rights even further

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Criminal damage is not protesting.

Like in an argument. The minute you've punched someone you've lost. Exactly. The moment you do that, you have also lost any moral high ground you MAY have had.

What has been happening is not protesting though it is very simply criminal damage. How is pouring extrament over a statue of a veteran that raised millions for the NHS further anyone's cause?

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By *phroditeWoman over a year ago

(She/ her) in Sensualityland

"Action like this will only strengthen a government’s rationale for bringing in more control measures for protesting and reduce the normal persons rights even further "
Yes, I agree

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By *phroditeWoman over a year ago

(She/ her) in Sensualityland

"Criminal damage is not protesting.

Like in an argument. The minute you've punched someone you've lost. Exactly. The moment you do that, you have also lost any moral high ground you MAY have had.

What has been happening is not protesting though it is very simply criminal damage. How is pouring extrament over a statue of a veteran that raised millions for the NHS further anyone's cause? "
It will create mostly outrage and it was disgusting. There have got to be better ways than throwing excrement over a statue generally viewed as a national treasure.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The intention of activism is not to hurt or destroy

The activist wants to make the world a better place .

Protest is not flying a brick in local Indian shop or smash a random Mercedes.

The point is to make the dickhead politicians to have balls and do the right things instead of being dickheads hurting people .

Disarm DSEi , etc .

I wished I had done more . I never done much

Kick off and destroy is the opposite of it .

People behaving like that , trashing civilians properties are ignorant cowards, who watched “ Joker “ and totally got the wrong end of the stick .

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By *dwalu2Couple over a year ago

Bristol

"Action like this will only strengthen a government’s rationale for bringing in more control measures for protesting and reduce the normal persons rights even further "

This is nonsense. The government is already doing this without any rationale, and is reducing ‘normal person’s’ rights because they are authoritarian ideologues, who will seek to do so as a matter of course.

The people currently protesting are the only people likely to push back against the loss of ordinary people’s rights - it certainly won’t be anyone who is moaning about them.

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By *dwalu2Couple over a year ago

Bristol

"Criminal damage is not protesting.

Like in an argument. The minute you've punched someone you've lost. Exactly. The moment you do that, you have also lost any moral high ground you MAY have had.

What has been happening is not protesting though it is very simply criminal damage. How is pouring extrament over a statue of a veteran that raised millions for the NHS further anyone's cause? "

You would have said exactly the same about Emily Pankhurst.

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By *ohn KanakaMan over a year ago

Not all that North of North London

I agree with their objectives but I'm genuinley not sure what vandalising the stature of Captain Tom or a Van Gogh achieves or how it aligns with those targets.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

I would just like to make it clear I have absolutely no issue whatsoever with peaceful protest and think it is a really important part of living in a free democratic society. My point is I genuinely do not feel a lot of these current stunts are anything to do with actual protest or activism.

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By *phroditeWoman over a year ago

(She/ her) in Sensualityland

"I agree with their objectives but I'm genuinley not sure what vandalising the stature of Captain Tom or a Van Gogh achieves or how it aligns with those targets.

Me neither

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Criminal damage is not protesting.

Like in an argument. The minute you've punched someone you've lost. Exactly. The moment you do that, you have also lost any moral high ground you MAY have had.

What has been happening is not protesting though it is very simply criminal damage. How is pouring extrament over a statue of a veteran that raised millions for the NHS further anyone's cause?

You would have said exactly the same about Emily Pankhurst."

What are you talking about? The suffragettes targeted members of the aristocracy, Parliament and those who had significant positions of power and influence. Not comparable in the slightest to a painting being vandalised and a statue of a veteran.

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By *dwalu2Couple over a year ago

Bristol

"My point is I genuinely do not feel a lot of these current stunts are anything to do with actual protest or activism. "

But you admitted you don’t know what the goals of the protests are, so how do you know?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I think lots of things but one thing is that social unrest and disorder like we see here is an important way to express discontentment.

You can’t convince the State to take action, you have to force them to. The only thing at that true meaningful revolutionary change is achieved is through action.

Anyway sorry for that revolutionary call to action. What we’re we talking about again?

I’d agree if we protested like the French. Sitting on a motorway or disrupting a football match doesn’t really get the message across."

au contraire, mon ami (you like that?

), I actually think that it does get the message across and I think it radicalises ordinary folk to the urgency of this issue. Football games have thousands of people in attendance and more watching live. I think stoping traffic is hugely impactful too because it is dangerous and can highlight the commitment to the issue.

Ultimately, this kind of disruption should force people and the government to listen. And I’m not gonna lie, I support it.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Protest isn’t meant to be pretty or convenient. If it was, it wouldn’t be protest. They’re garnering attention, whether you agree or disagree, you’re talking about it. I for one, wholeheartedly support them, their aims and their methods and if I had the means I would be right there with them. In my opinion, we should take a leaf out of the French’s book and protest more (the only thing I agree with them on) and maybe this country and it’s wayward government wouldn’t get away with all the corrupt shit they do.

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By *wisted999Man over a year ago

North Bucks

Vandalism.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"My point is I genuinely do not feel a lot of these current stunts are anything to do with actual protest or activism.

But you admitted you don’t know what the goals of the protests are, so how do you know?"

That's not what I said at all and if you are going to continue twisting what I said then it's pointless continuing this any further.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I think lots of things but one thing is that social unrest and disorder like we see here is an important way to express discontentment.

You can’t convince the State to take action, you have to force them to. The only thing at that true meaningful revolutionary change is achieved is through action.

Anyway sorry for that revolutionary call to action. What we’re we talking about again?

I’d agree if we protested like the French. Sitting on a motorway or disrupting a football match doesn’t really get the message across.

au contraire, mon ami (you like that?

Ultimately, this kind of disruption should force people and the government to listen. And I’m not gonna lie, I support it.

But what difference has it made? The French get a lot of stick for “surrendering” but they hold their government to account. The riots and protests over there aren’t pretty but they get results.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

No, they are middle class attention seekers.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I would just like to make it clear I have absolutely no issue whatsoever with peaceful protest and think it is a really important part of living in a free democratic society. My point is I genuinely do not feel a lot of these current stunts are anything to do with actual protest or activism. "

I don’t think protest should be conditional. Protest shouldn’t be violent towards the people but I don’t think it needs to be peaceful to be supported. Protest and activism doesn’t have a universal look, I’d argue.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Protest isn’t meant to be pretty or convenient. If it was, it wouldn’t be protest. They’re garnering attention, whether you agree or disagree, you’re talking about it. I for one, wholeheartedly support them, their aims and their methods and if I had the means I would be right there with them. In my opinion, we should take a leaf out of the French’s book and protest more (the only thing I agree with them on) and maybe this country and it’s wayward government wouldn’t get away with all the corrupt shit they do. "

Would you support them if you couldn't get your sick child to a hospital appointment because they had blocked the road? Would you support them if it was your mother or father in the back of an ambulance needing urgent treatment in a hospital having to do a detour and potentially having serious consequences to their health? Would you support them if it was a member of your family that had raised millions for charity and had shit poured over a statue of them?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

That’s why I wish I had done more . Never done much

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By *dwalu2Couple over a year ago

Bristol

"Criminal damage is not protesting.

Like in an argument. The minute you've punched someone you've lost. Exactly. The moment you do that, you have also lost any moral high ground you MAY have had.

What has been happening is not protesting though it is very simply criminal damage. How is pouring extrament over a statue of a veteran that raised millions for the NHS further anyone's cause?

You would have said exactly the same about Emily Pankhurst.

They are directly comparable - but you are choosing not to see the comparison because otherwise your position doesn’t make sense.

Suffragette Mary Richardson vandalised Valasquez’s The Toilet of Venus in the National Gallery in 1914, as just one example.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I think lots of things but one thing is that social unrest and disorder like we see here is an important way to express discontentment.

You can’t convince the State to take action, you have to force them to. The only thing at that true meaningful revolutionary change is achieved is through action.

Anyway sorry for that revolutionary call to action. What we’re we talking about again?

I’d agree if we protested like the French. Sitting on a motorway or disrupting a football match doesn’t really get the message across.

au contraire, mon ami (you like that?

Ultimately, this kind of disruption should force people and the government to listen. And I’m not gonna lie, I support it.

That’s on our government imo. The riots of 2011 that started in Tottenham did fuck all too because the the government in this country is not committed to justice or to hearing the voices of the people.

But no point in giving up trying to make them hear us.

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By *phroditeWoman over a year ago

(She/ her) in Sensualityland

"My point is I genuinely do not feel a lot of these current stunts are anything to do with actual protest or activism.

But you admitted you don’t know what the goals of the protests are, so how do you know?

That's not what I said at all and if you are going to continue twisting what I said then it's pointless continuing this any further. "

In fairness you did say that earlier... "because I don't know what any of them actually stand for anymore"

And in fairness to you, a lot of people would be hard pushed to tell the difference between one and another.

But that is a result of a few drastic actions causing a lot of people to turn away and view the entire protest as aggressive and pointless.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Oooooooft

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I think lots of things but one thing is that social unrest and disorder like we see here is an important way to express discontentment.

You can’t convince the State to take action, you have to force them to. The only thing at that true meaningful revolutionary change is achieved is through action.

Anyway sorry for that revolutionary call to action. What we’re we talking about again?

I’d agree if we protested like the French. Sitting on a motorway or disrupting a football match doesn’t really get the message across.

au contraire, mon ami (you like that?

Ultimately, this kind of disruption should force people and the government to listen. And I’m not gonna lie, I support it.

But no point in giving up trying to make them hear us. "

If you are going to start a riot and cause death and destruction which is exactly what happened in 2011 then absolutely right the government should not be listening to that kind of behaviour.

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By *dwalu2Couple over a year ago

Bristol

"My point is I genuinely do not feel a lot of these current stunts are anything to do with actual protest or activism.

But you admitted you don’t know what the goals of the protests are, so how do you know?

That's not what I said at all and if you are going to continue twisting what I said then it's pointless continuing this any further. "

There’s no twisting of words - you can’t claim not to understand the goals of the protest and also claim the protest actions are nothing to do with those goals at the same time.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"My point is I genuinely do not feel a lot of these current stunts are anything to do with actual protest or activism.

But you admitted you don’t know what the goals of the protests are, so how do you know?

That's not what I said at all and if you are going to continue twisting what I said then it's pointless continuing this any further.

There’s no twisting of words - you can’t claim not to understand the goals of the protest and also claim the protest actions are nothing to do with those goals at the same time."

If you had read what I said I didn't say that at all and clarified very clearly what I meant anyway let's leave it here now please.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

These arguments are applicable to protests that roads are closed for, no? Or strike action that affects transport? There’s always a reason not to support protest. Protest is disruptive. That’s the point of it.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

You thought this was a “gotcha” moment but yes, I still would. Would I be annoyed and probably angry in the moment? Of course, no one is saying people can’t be. But that doesn’t change that their cause is an incredibly important one and one that I support. If they don’t cause disruption, how else do they get their message across? Are we all supposed to just sit back and let the government continuously fuck us over? You say that as if an ambulance is even available to take patients to hospital. If I get my sick child to the hospital, is she going to be seen to properly or by an overtired, overworked, underpaid nurse and doctor? More power to them. Hopefully real tangible change comes of it.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

I didn't say they weren't disruptive I was asking the poster if they would still support them if the lives of their loved ones were put at risk by the actions of these people.

You tell me what pouring paint and shit over statues and soup over paintings actually achieves?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I think lots of things but one thing is that social unrest and disorder like we see here is an important way to express discontentment.

You can’t convince the State to take action, you have to force them to. The only thing at that true meaningful revolutionary change is achieved is through action.

Anyway sorry for that revolutionary call to action. What we’re we talking about again?

I’d agree if we protested like the French. Sitting on a motorway or disrupting a football match doesn’t really get the message across.

au contraire, mon ami (you like that?

Ultimately, this kind of disruption should force people and the government to listen. And I’m not gonna lie, I support it.

But no point in giving up trying to make them hear us. "

That’s true although I think there is much better ways to go about it. I keep going back to the football protestor but he was ridiculed a hell of a lot more than he was supported.

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By *dwalu2Couple over a year ago

Bristol

"My point is I genuinely do not feel a lot of these current stunts are anything to do with actual protest or activism.

But you admitted you don’t know what the goals of the protests are, so how do you know?

That's not what I said at all and if you are going to continue twisting what I said then it's pointless continuing this any further.

There’s no twisting of words - you can’t claim not to understand the goals of the protest and also claim the protest actions are nothing to do with those goals at the same time.

If you had read what I said I didn't say that at all and clarified very clearly what I meant anyway let's leave it here now please. "

Sure - you don’t want to understand the protests, you just want to criticise them. It’s a perfectly understandable position to hold, and a very common one.

The suffragettes and the black power movement both faced the same ‘criticism’. Most protest movements do.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

So you would support somebody who directly put the life of your family member at risk? Can you tell me I will ask you the same question as I've askes Steve what any of these things these people are doing is achieving other than turning public support against them?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I think lots of things but one thing is that social unrest and disorder like we see here is an important way to express discontentment.

You can’t convince the State to take action, you have to force them to. The only thing at that true meaningful revolutionary change is achieved is through action.

Anyway sorry for that revolutionary call to action. What we’re we talking about again?

I’d agree if we protested like the French. Sitting on a motorway or disrupting a football match doesn’t really get the message across.

au contraire, mon ami (you like that?

Ultimately, this kind of disruption should force people and the government to listen. And I’m not gonna lie, I support it.

But no point in giving up trying to make them hear us.

If you are going to start a riot and cause death and destruction which is exactly what happened in 2011 then absolutely right the government should not be listening to that kind of behaviour. "

I’m not going to argue with you about 2011 because no doubt our opinions on it are different. But the government has a duty to its people otherwise what’s the point in it? Protest is a way of making the voices of people heard.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Oooooooft

It’s funny because everyone in this thread has at some point benefitted from the outcomes of protest. Women in this thread saying they don’t agree or can’t support it? But I’d be willing to bet my life, they love off the suffragettes. I promise, their methods of protest were far from pretty and were incredibly inconvenient and disruptive.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I think lots of things but one thing is that social unrest and disorder like we see here is an important way to express discontentment.

You can’t convince the State to take action, you have to force them to. The only thing at that true meaningful revolutionary change is achieved is through action.

Anyway sorry for that revolutionary call to action. What we’re we talking about again?

I’d agree if we protested like the French. Sitting on a motorway or disrupting a football match doesn’t really get the message across.

au contraire, mon ami (you like that?

Ultimately, this kind of disruption should force people and the government to listen. And I’m not gonna lie, I support it.

But no point in giving up trying to make them hear us.

If you are going to start a riot and cause death and destruction which is exactly what happened in 2011 then absolutely right the government should not be listening to that kind of behaviour.

The London riots were not about protest they were about criminality.

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By *ohn KanakaMan over a year ago

Not all that North of North London

In fairness austerity has stopped far more people getting treated in hospital than any demonstration...

But when I'm still not entirely convinced what targeting statues and paintings achieves we do have a tendancy to complain any form of protest. However people seem to demonstrate, it is the wrong, I'm not sure a petition would achieve anything but direct action can't damage anything nor inconvenience anyone. Do how should people protest?

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By *dwalu2Couple over a year ago

Bristol

Is it uncommon? Many people vote Conservative, which puts the lives of themselves and their family at direct risk.

130,000 were killed by austerity - many of those would have had families who voted Conservative, and would have also voted Conservative themselves.

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By *dwalu2Couple over a year ago

Bristol

The London riots were not about protest they were about criminality. "

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Oooooooft

How many dine relatives have you not been able to see this year because of the disruption? How many funerals have you not been able to attend? How many of your hospital appointments have had to have been cancelled? I can tell you in our case it was one dying relative 3 funerals and 2 hospital appointments. I would have sympathy with these so called protesters if they were actually giving across a clear message however they are not. Like I said it is all well and good and easy to say I fully support them until it directly impacts your life.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I think lots of things but one thing is that social unrest and disorder like we see here is an important way to express discontentment.

You can’t convince the State to take action, you have to force them to. The only thing at that true meaningful revolutionary change is achieved is through action.

Anyway sorry for that revolutionary call to action. What we’re we talking about again?

I’d agree if we protested like the French. Sitting on a motorway or disrupting a football match doesn’t really get the message across.

au contraire, mon ami (you like that?

Ultimately, this kind of disruption should force people and the government to listen. And I’m not gonna lie, I support it.

But no point in giving up trying to make them hear us.

If you are going to start a riot and cause death and destruction which is exactly what happened in 2011 then absolutely right the government should not be listening to that kind of behaviour.

The London riots were not about protest they were about criminality. "

ahhhh she’s one of those people. yeah, this is where my engagement stops because your biases just became abundantly clear. Anyway, all power to the people *raised fist*

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Oooooooft

I’d support more extreme measures. Causing minor inconveniences is just annoying.

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By *oncupiscentTonyMan over a year ago

Kent

"You tell me what pouring paint and shit over statues and soup over paintings actually achieves? "

van Gogh was quite a rebel in his youth so I think he would have loved this. He'd be grinning from ear

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I think lots of things but one thing is that social unrest and disorder like we see here is an important way to express discontentment.

You can’t convince the State to take action, you have to force them to. The only thing at that true meaningful revolutionary change is achieved is through action.

Anyway sorry for that revolutionary call to action. What we’re we talking about again?

I’d agree if we protested like the French. Sitting on a motorway or disrupting a football match doesn’t really get the message across.

au contraire, mon ami (you like that?

Ultimately, this kind of disruption should force people and the government to listen. And I’m not gonna lie, I support it.

But no point in giving up trying to make them hear us.

If you are going to start a riot and cause death and destruction which is exactly what happened in 2011 then absolutely right the government should not be listening to that kind of behaviour.

The London riots were not about protest they were about criminality.

ahhhh she’s one of those people. yeah, this is where my engagement stops because your biases just became abundantly clear. Anyway, all power to the people *raised fist*"

No need for your rudeness and if you would like to have an adult discussion about this we will continue if not I bid you a good day.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Oooooooft

They have given across a clear message. They’ve made their aims perfectly clear, you just can’t see past your own uneducated opinions to be bothered to learn about it. Pick up a book or even yet, google. It’s a free search engine. You can look them and what they’re trying to achieve there. But you’re not going to do that, because you frankly don’t care.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I didn't say they weren't disruptive I was asking the poster if they would still support them if the lives of their loved ones were put at risk by the actions of these people.

You tell me what pouring paint and shit over statues and soup over paintings actually achieves? "

We we are talking about it right now…? And people are expressing support for their cause and discussing their cause? That’s two things.

As for the other comments you make, It is clear you don’t support the methods of these protests, it is also fine for people to support them. You can talk about your hypothetical (as in they haven’t happened to the people you’re asking) scenarios to try and get people to make support for a cause conditional but causes like this are literally bigger than you or I. What kind of world will our kids live in if action isn’t taken?

Would you care if your close family relative was at risk because of consequences of this emergency for which they’re protesting? (See why it’s pointless doing that?)

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Oooooooft

You clearly haven't read my comments as I have done a lot of research into all of these so called protest groups. If you are going to continue with the insults you're not going to achieve anything.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I think lots of things but one thing is that social unrest and disorder like we see here is an important way to express discontentment.

You can’t convince the State to take action, you have to force them to. The only thing at that true meaningful revolutionary change is achieved is through action.

Anyway sorry for that revolutionary call to action. What we’re we talking about again?

I’d agree if we protested like the French. Sitting on a motorway or disrupting a football match doesn’t really get the message across.

au contraire, mon ami (you like that?

Ultimately, this kind of disruption should force people and the government to listen. And I’m not gonna lie, I support it.

But no point in giving up trying to make them hear us.

If you are going to start a riot and cause death and destruction which is exactly what happened in 2011 then absolutely right the government should not be listening to that kind of behaviour.

The London riots were not about protest they were about criminality. "

Yes, the criminality of the police maybe.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I would have sympathy with these so called protesters if they were actually giving across a clear message however they are not"

It would have taken less effort to learn about those than it has to put up this rant.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Oooooooft

You clearly haven't read my comments as I have done a lot of research into all of these so called protest groups. If you are going to continue with the insults you're not going to achieve anything. "

I haven’t insulted you or been rude at any point. If that’s how you took it, says more about you than it does me

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

In fairness austerity has stopped far more people getting treated in hospital than any demonstration...

She doesn’t think people should, I suspect.

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By *rumpyMcFuckNuggetMan over a year ago

Den of Iniquity

Maybe if these groups got a large enough number of people and organised a peaceful protest with say 50,000 people and a clear goal that would work much better than the mindless acts of these few fucking idiots ...

The Tom Moore statue incident was unforgivable and I hope the silly cow goes to prison ( I haven't checked )

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I think lots of things but one thing is that social unrest and disorder like we see here is an important way to express discontentment.

You can’t convince the State to take action, you have to force them to. The only thing at that true meaningful revolutionary change is achieved is through action.

Anyway sorry for that revolutionary call to action. What we’re we talking about again?

I’d agree if we protested like the French. Sitting on a motorway or disrupting a football match doesn’t really get the message across.

au contraire, mon ami (you like that?

Ultimately, this kind of disruption should force people and the government to listen. And I’m not gonna lie, I support it.

But no point in giving up trying to make them hear us.

If you are going to start a riot and cause death and destruction which is exactly what happened in 2011 then absolutely right the government should not be listening to that kind of behaviour.

The London riots were not about protest they were about criminality.

Yes, the criminality of the police maybe.

Setting fire to cars and buildings, looting shops and attacking people is not criminality? The original reason for the protest was valid but it was hijacked by people just wanting to cause havoc and commit crime.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

In fairness austerity has stopped far more people getting treated in hospital than any demonstration...

She doesn’t think people should, I suspect. "

Don't speak for me and I have very clearly said I support people's right to protest however vandalism is not protesting.

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By *izandpaulCouple over a year ago

merseyside

"Criminal damage is not protesting.

Like in an argument. The minute you've punched someone you've lost. "

My grandad used to say..

If you raise your voice, you've lost the argument.

Although you can't hear the discussion on FAB, you can sometimes see the volume in the catty remarks.

I never see the point in turning the general public away from your aims.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Maybe if these groups got a large enough number of people and organised a peaceful protest with say 50,000 people and a clear goal that would work much better than the mindless acts of these few fucking idiots ...

The Tom Moore statue incident was unforgivable and I hope the silly cow goes to prison ( I haven't checked )

Exactly. There are ways to get your message across.

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By *dwalu2Couple over a year ago

Bristol

"I would have sympathy with these so called protesters if they were actually giving across a clear message however they are not

It would have taken less effort to learn about those than it has to put up this rant."

Well, you have to actually want to know something to learn about it.

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By *wisted999Man over a year ago

North Bucks

"Criminal damage is not protesting.

Like in an argument. The minute you've punched someone you've lost.

My grandad used to say..

If you raise your voice, you've lost the argument.

Although you can't hear the discussion on FAB, you can sometimes see the volume in the catty remarks.

I never see the point in turning the general public away from your aims."

Yes lots of insinuations that are not called for.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

In fairness austerity has stopped far more people getting treated in hospital than any demonstration...

She doesn’t think people should, I suspect.

Don't speak for me and I have very clearly said I support people's right to protest however vandalism is not protesting. "

But it is. That’s where you’re wrong. There are no ‘incorrect’ ways to protest. Just because you don’t like it or don’t agree with it doesn’t make it less so. Protest has always contained a level of vandalism. Always. This isn’t some new element of protest.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The Tom Moore statue incident was unforgivable and I hope the silly cow goes to prison ( I haven't checked )

Exactly. There are ways to get your message across. "

I hope you wouldn’t have been one of those ‘I agree with your message but not your methods’ people when people were protesting for equal rights

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

In fairness austerity has stopped far more people getting treated in hospital than any demonstration...

She doesn’t think people should, I suspect.

Don't speak for me and I have very clearly said I support people's right to protest however vandalism is not protesting.

I support legal protest vandalism is not legal regardless of the cause.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The suffragettes famously smashes windows and committed arson and that is a cause that I’m sure we all support retrospectively, no? And you’ve moved the goal posts now. Is the issue disruption, ie blocking roads or is it vandalism?

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By *rumpyMcFuckNuggetMan over a year ago

Den of Iniquity

The Tom Moore statue incident was unforgivable and I hope the silly cow goes to prison ( I haven't checked )

Exactly. There are ways to get your message across. "

Exactly.. Same with the riots as you say .. Used for an excuse to be a bunch of mindless twats..

Obviously all the Police's fault of course that

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

The Tom Moore statue incident was unforgivable and I hope the silly cow goes to prison ( I haven't checked )

Exactly. There are ways to get your message across.

I hope you wouldn’t have been one of those ‘I agree with your message but not your methods’ people when people were protesting for equal rights "

I do not support criminality for any reason.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

In fairness austerity has stopped far more people getting treated in hospital than any demonstration...

She doesn’t think people should, I suspect.

Don't speak for me and I have very clearly said I support people's right to protest however vandalism is not protesting.

I support legal protest vandalism is not legal regardless of the cause. "

Wouldn’t have supported the suffragettes then.

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By *dwalu2Couple over a year ago

Bristol

"Criminal damage is not protesting.

Like in an argument. The minute you've punched someone you've lost.

My grandad used to say..

If you raise your voice, you've lost the argument.

Although you can't hear the discussion on FAB, you can sometimes see the volume in the catty remarks.

I never see the point in turning the general public away from your aims."

Your grandad was wrong, as can be observed throughout history. And the general public is often on the wrong side of history.

People who say these things nearly always have no need to protest, nor desire to allow others to do so.

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By *lym4realCouple over a year ago

plymouth

Amazes us both people have so little grasp on "History" and take for granted all the "Rights" the have and how they got them ?? as the same labels that are bandied about on here and of course the MSM and non dom owned right wing newsapapers were used on the people who fought for your rights we all now take for granted ??? and protest and protesting is part and parcel of thriving democracy and how will any of you feel if say you are one day walikng past a "Protest" and are stopped and seached and questioned and filmed by the police ??

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By *idnight RamblerMan over a year ago

Pershore

It's pure vandalism and moreover impoverishes us all because museums will be forced to protect valuable works of glass behind plate glass. I was at the National Gallery only a few weeks back and it's marvellous how you can get so close to famous pieces of art. Not for much longer.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

In fairness austerity has stopped far more people getting treated in hospital than any demonstration...

She doesn’t think people should, I suspect.

Don't speak for me and I have very clearly said I support people's right to protest however vandalism is not protesting.

I support legal protest vandalism is not legal regardless of the cause.

Wouldn’t have supported the suffragettes then. "

Would absolutely support the suffragette movement however I would Not have supported some of their methods.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I think lots of things but one thing is that social unrest and disorder like we see here is an important way to express discontentment.

You can’t convince the State to take action, you have to force them to. The only thing at that true meaningful revolutionary change is achieved is through action.

Anyway sorry for that revolutionary call to action. What we’re we talking about again?

I’d agree if we protested like the French. Sitting on a motorway or disrupting a football match doesn’t really get the message across.

au contraire, mon ami (you like that?

Ultimately, this kind of disruption should force people and the government to listen. And I’m not gonna lie, I support it.

But no point in giving up trying to make them hear us.

If you are going to start a riot and cause death and destruction which is exactly what happened in 2011 then absolutely right the government should not be listening to that kind of behaviour.

The London riots were not about protest they were about criminality.

Yes, the criminality of the police maybe.

Pretty sure many of the people out in London were still pretty aware of what happened in Tottenham and the reasons for that protest. Of course many people didn’t go out for that cause but many did. If one group are above the law, it sets a dangerous precedent. Anyway, after 2011, Justice was not done.

You’d love kier starmer by the way. He shared your views on it all.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The Tom Moore statue incident was unforgivable and I hope the silly cow goes to prison ( I haven't checked )

Peaceful protest has never worked. Not once in history. I’m sure we’ve all heard about Bloody Sunday. Peaceful protest met with brutal violence.

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By *aitonelMan over a year ago

Travelling

Keep in mind that vandalism is just an act of protest. They are not mutually exclusive. It's just an undesirable one.

Protesting is an expression about a strong objection to something.

Any act can be an act of protest. Be it criminal or not.

Thing is it is such a fine line that protesting a cause in such ways can be viewed as some knob just having a laugh with no cause but their own lust for anarchy.

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By *dwalu2Couple over a year ago

Bristol

"It's pure vandalism and moreover impoverishes us all because museums will be forced to protect valuable works of glass behind plate glass. I was at the National Gallery only a few weeks back and it's marvellous how you can get so close to famous pieces of art. Not for much longer."

Again, Suffragette Mary Richardson vandalised Valasquez’s The Toilet of Venus in the National Gallery in 1914 - presumably this was before your last visit.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The Tom Moore statue incident was unforgivable and I hope the silly cow goes to prison ( I haven't checked )

Exactly. There are ways to get your message across.

I hope you wouldn’t have been one of those ‘I agree with your message but not your methods’ people when people were protesting for equal rights

I do not support criminality for any reason. "

I love that you think that crime is not a socially constructed phenomenon.

Protest is a crime in some places.

Smoking certain substances is a crime in some places despite medicinal benefits etc.

It’s a bold statement, one I’m sure you stand by but one that I don’t think is fair and gives government a free pass.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Did you say “ stunts “ ?

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By *phroditeWoman over a year ago

(She/ her) in Sensualityland

You clearly haven't read my comments as I have done a lot of research into all of these so called protest groups. If you are going to continue with the insults you're not going to achieve anything. "

You are contradicting yourself here - you state in one breath you have no idea and in the next that you have done a lot of research.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The Tom Moore statue incident was unforgivable and I hope the silly cow goes to prison ( I haven't checked )

Exactly. There are ways to get your message across.

Exactly.. Same with the riots as you say .. Used for an excuse to be a bunch of mindless twats..

Obviously all the Police's fault of course that

Nothing the police have ever done ever is there fault! It’s all lawful!

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By *rightonsteveMan over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

It would have been wittier to have thrown tomato soup over an Andy Warhol

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By *unFellaMan over a year ago

Derry

I fail to see how covering a Van Gogh painting in tomato soup lowers the carbon emissions of my car

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I hope you wouldn’t have been one of those ‘I agree with your message but not your methods’ people when people were protesting for equal rights "

Well well well

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

You clearly haven't read my comments as I have done a lot of research into all of these so called protest groups. If you are going to continue with the insults you're not going to achieve anything.

You are contradicting yourself here - you state in one breath you have no idea and in the next that you have done a lot of research."

I thought the same thing. Done lots of research but isn’t aware of their aims? Their websites and various social media clearly stated their aims, so the research needn’t even be extensive.

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By *arlomaleMan over a year ago

darlington

"I fail to see how covering a Van Gogh painting in tomato soup lowers the carbon emissions of my car"
I don’t know I’m tempted to sell my v8 and get a pushbike

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

You clearly haven't read my comments as I have done a lot of research into all of these so called protest groups. If you are going to continue with the insults you're not going to achieve anything.

You are contradicting yourself here - you state in one breath you have no idea and in the next that you have done a lot of research."

Again I actually didn't say that. I very clearly stated further up I have done my research and can see no correlation whatsoever in the actions of these people and what they claim they stand for. I have listened to radio interviews when all these activists do is shout at insult the interviewer. No point if I said I don't know anything about these groups I have said I don't understand their messaging there is a complete difference.

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By *ohn KanakaMan over a year ago

Not all that North of North London

People still complain about protest marches though... And it doesn't get reported or raise any awareness... And the government want to make it illegal...

Other than the poll tax demonstration (which turned in to a riot) has there been a protest machine thst achieved change?

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By *rumpyMcFuckNuggetMan over a year ago

Den of Iniquity

The Tom Moore statue incident was unforgivable and I hope the silly cow goes to prison ( I haven't checked )

Exactly. There are ways to get your message across.

Exactly.. Same with the riots as you say .. Used for an excuse to be a bunch of mindless twats..

Obviously all the Police's fault of course that

Nothing the police have ever done ever is there fault! It’s all lawful!

Did i say that ??

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

The Tom Moore statue incident was unforgivable and I hope the silly cow goes to prison ( I haven't checked )

Exactly. There are ways to get your message across.

Exactly.. Same with the riots as you say .. Used for an excuse to be a bunch of mindless twats..

Obviously all the Police's fault of course that

Nothing the police have ever done ever is there fault! It’s all lawful!

Did i say that ??"

A lot of things being said are being twisted unfortunately and that was not the intention of this thread.

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By *phroditeWoman over a year ago

(She/ her) in Sensualityland

You clearly haven't read my comments as I have done a lot of research into all of these so called protest groups. If you are going to continue with the insults you're not going to achieve anything.

You are contradicting yourself here - you state in one breath you have no idea and in the next that you have done a lot of research.

I am sorry but if you seriously cannot acknowledge that you are contradicting yourself in one thread, then I cannot see the point in discussing this further.

It takes courage to protest in the streets just as it takes courage to admit one has made a mistake.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

You clearly haven't read my comments as I have done a lot of research into all of these so called protest groups. If you are going to continue with the insults you're not going to achieve anything.

You are contradicting yourself here - you state in one breath you have no idea and in the next that you have done a lot of research.

I am sorry but if you seriously cannot acknowledge that you are contradicting yourself in one thread, then I cannot see the point in discussing this further.

It takes courage to protest in the streets just as it takes courage to admit one has made a mistake."

I have not contradicted myself once and I have made myself very clear.

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By *phroditeWoman over a year ago

(She/ her) in Sensualityland

People still complain about protest marches though... And it doesn't get reported or raise any awareness... And the government want to make it illegal...

Other than the poll tax demonstration (which turned in to a riot) has there been a protest machine thst achieved change?"

It is such a fine line between what just about justifies the means to achieve a greater goal for the people, isnt it...

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By *rumpyMcFuckNuggetMan over a year ago

Den of Iniquity

The Tom Moore statue incident was unforgivable and I hope the silly cow goes to prison ( I haven't checked )

Exactly. There are ways to get your message across.

Exactly.. Same with the riots as you say .. Used for an excuse to be a bunch of mindless twats..

Obviously all the Police's fault of course that

Nothing the police have ever done ever is there fault! It’s all lawful!

Did i say that ??

A lot of things being said are being twisted unfortunately and that was not the intention of this thread. "

I know Lorna but we all knew it would happen

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By *idnight RamblerMan over a year ago

Pershore

Again, Suffragette Mary Richardson vandalised Valasquez’s The Toilet of Venus in the National Gallery in 1914 - presumably this was before your last visit."

So what? Did the Suffragette movement succeed because of a single incident? That's an absurd suggestion. All acts of vandalism to works of art are deplorable except to Philistines.

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By *dwalu2Couple over a year ago

Bristol

Again, Suffragette Mary Richardson vandalised Valasquez’s The Toilet of Venus in the National Gallery in 1914 - presumably this was before your last visit.

So what? Did the Suffragette movement succeed because of a single incident? That's an absurd suggestion. All acts of vandalism to works of art are deplorable except to Philistines. "

The point is that it’s clearly not current actions that will prevent you getting close to the art as you imply, as the same actions over a hundred years ago did not prevent people getting close to the art then, yesterday or today.

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By *izandpaulCouple over a year ago

merseyside

"Criminal damage is not protesting.

Like in an argument. The minute you've punched someone you've lost.

My grandad used to say..

If you raise your voice, you've lost the argument.

Although you can't hear the discussion on FAB, you can sometimes see the volume in the catty remarks.

I never see the point in turning the general public away from your aims.

Your grandad was wrong, as can be observed throughout history. And the general public is often on the wrong side of history.

People who say these things nearly always have no need to protest, nor desire to allow others to do so."

No, my grandad was a gentle man and a gentleman too.

Never had a bad word to say about anyone and never tried to be be a smart arse.

He was a ex docker who protested throughout his life for decent working conditions and fairness but he didn't feel the need to shout from the rooftops.

I'll stick with grandads sage advice if that's OK with you.

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By *unFellaMan over a year ago

Derry

"I fail to see how covering a Van Gogh painting in tomato soup lowers the carbon emissions of my car I don’t know I’m tempted to sell my v8 and get a pushbike

Sorry mate youve got my car side going hahah what v8? Drive a Toyota Chaser 2jz swap myself

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Criminal damage is not protesting.

Like in an argument. The minute you've punched someone you've lost.

My grandad used to say..

If you raise your voice, you've lost the argument.

Although you can't hear the discussion on FAB, you can sometimes see the volume in the catty remarks.

I never see the point in turning the general public away from your aims.

Your grandad was wrong, as can be observed throughout history. And the general public is often on the wrong side of history.

People who say these things nearly always have no need to protest, nor desire to allow others to do so.

No, my grandad was a gentle man and a gentleman too.

Never had a bad word to say about anyone and never tried to be be a smart arse.

He was a ex docker who protested throughout his life for decent working conditions and fairness but he didn't feel the need to shout from the rooftops.

I'll stick with grandads sage advice if that's OK with you.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

To do that to such a beautiful piece of art is not doing their cause any good… actually it is setting it back…

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The Tom Moore statue incident was unforgivable and I hope the silly cow goes to prison ( I haven't checked )

Exactly. There are ways to get your message across.

Exactly.. Same with the riots as you say .. Used for an excuse to be a bunch of mindless twats..

Obviously all the Police's fault of course that

Nothing the police have ever done ever is there fault! It’s all lawful!

Did i say that ??"

Nobody said you said that. I’m saying that. It’s never the police’s fault

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"To do that to such a beautiful piece of art is not doing their cause any good… actually it is setting it back… "

The art isn’t an original and is covered in an easy clean pane of glass anyway. The precious art will be fine and Van Gogh would be proud anyway.

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By *orny PTMan over a year ago

Peterborough

These protesters are forgetting one thing. PR

If you want to gain critical mass and get enough people on board: you need their sympathy and support, not repulsion.

Attacking a Van Gogh picture is going to piss off a load of art students, artists, sellers, historians, art collectors and anyone else with half an ounce of common sense.

Art isn't the enemy here. Or did some idiot decide that the OIL in OIL PAINTING is guilty by the most tenuous of associations?

Remember the Idiots who forgot the BBC had moved house and attacked ITV instead?

)It's pronounce Van Go in some circles (yes it varies from country to country) and not ESSO!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The Tom Moore statue incident was unforgivable and I hope the silly cow goes to prison ( I haven't checked )

Exactly. There are ways to get your message across.

Exactly.. Same with the riots as you say .. Used for an excuse to be a bunch of mindless twats..

Obviously all the Police's fault of course that

Nothing the police have ever done ever is there fault! It’s all lawful!

Did i say that ??

A lot of things being said are being twisted unfortunately and that was not the intention of this thread. "

We’ve responded to the OP and subsequent questions have followed which have taken discussion down a different path. And we’ve all responded to those too

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

There are things all of us want to see change and action we would like to see taken on various issues. There are ways of going about it, I for example do not like the fact there is a road barrier at the end of our road segregating the council estate from the very extensive houses.

By the logic of some of this thread I could just go and rip that out and I shouldn't face any consequences either through criticism or the Justice system.

What I have done is contacted my local council and MP. A productive and effective discussion was had and its being removed. I'm not saying every issue can be resolved in this way however we cannot just allow people to behave however they choose just because we think it's a just cause.

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By *_MariusMan over a year ago

Currently Faraway

"So these just the stop and rebellion groups seem to just be running a muck and doing whatever they like and causing a lot of damage Whilst not really achieving anything.

Do you have sympathy with what they are doing? Do you think it will achieve anything or do you think this is just an excuse for bad behaviour and criminality under the guise of protesting? "

It’s a long discussion; I sympathise with the universal goal of preventing our planet from burning/flooding/freezing to extinction due to climate change. I also sympathise with the need to get disruptive and even violent when citizen’s living standards or human rights are trampled upon and all other peaceful ways of protest have gone on deaf powerful ears. But no, I don’t sympathise with shitting on the statue of a NHS-fundraiser or stopping ambulances from getting to their destination if it’s a life/death matter. Or vandalising world-heritage items like the sunflowers of Van Gogh…But the problem here is one of nuance. And that is usually lacking in those groups…E.g. yes, throw tomato soup, rotten eggs, feces, whatever, but throw it on Boris Johnson’s face or Jacob Reese Mogg, for destroying the NHS with their fanatical ideology of destroying anything publicly funded that makes a society coherent and bearable to live in; don’t cause an innocent woman to be permanently brain-damaged “because climate change kills millions of people”. Don’t say “what’s more worth? A painting or the climate?” It just rings like hollow and incoherent hectoring…

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By *idnight RamblerMan over a year ago

Pershore

Again, Suffragette Mary Richardson vandalised Valasquez’s The Toilet of Venus in the National Gallery in 1914 - presumably this was before your last visit.

So what? Did the Suffragette movement succeed because of a single incident? That's an absurd suggestion. All acts of vandalism to works of art are deplorable except to Philistines.

OK point taken. But the frequency of these incidents is going to result in a re-think of both museum public access and protection. That's a pity.

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By *agatoXXXMan over a year ago

Mordor

A painting never hurt anyone, nor damaged the planet. If these morons want to get their message across, they should cover the Energy Minister in Heinz' finest. The hotter the better, too.

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By *orny PTMan over a year ago

Peterborough

Again, Suffragette Mary Richardson vandalised Valasquez’s The Toilet of Venus in the National Gallery in 1914 - presumably this was before your last visit.

So what? Did the Suffragette movement succeed because of a single incident? That's an absurd suggestion. All acts of vandalism to works of art are deplorable except to Philistines.

OK point taken. But the frequency of these incidents is going to result in a re-think of both museum public access and protection. That's a pity."

Don't forget the force feeding and suicide under the king's race horse.

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By *abs..Woman over a year ago

It’s vandalism. It now removes the opportunity to see a beautiful piece of artwork from those that potentially don’t get the chance to see things like this that often.

I have no idea what they hope to achieve or what they really stand for. In my eyes they are committing criminal acts.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"There are things all of us want to see change and action we would like to see taken on various issues. There are ways of going about it, I for example do not like the fact there is a road barrier at the end of our road segregating the council estate from the very extensive houses.

By the logic of some of this thread I could just go and rip that out and I shouldn't face any consequences either through criticism or the Justice system.

These people don’t act as though they’re above the law. They face consequences. They know that they will. They believe their cause is worth that.

Happens often. Didn’t Martin Luther King sit in jail ? Which gave us his letters from Birmingham jail?

People are not saying they’re above the law. And if they bring about meaningful change, history will remember them.

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By *urious couple22Couple over a year ago

Derby

[Removed by poster at 14/10/22 18:02:33]

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

By the logic of some of this thread I could just go and rip that out and I shouldn't face any consequences either through criticism or the Justice system.

These people don’t act as though they’re above the law. They face consequences. They know that they will. They believe their cause is worth that.

Happens often. Didn’t Martin Luther King sit in jail ? Which gave us his letters from Birmingham jail?

People are not saying they’re above the law. And if they bring about meaningful change, history will remember them. "

However as seen in this thread individuals cannot criticise their actions without having their character picked apart Or assumptions made about them is an individual.

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By *estSussexGuy76Man over a year ago

copthorne

"So these just the stop and rebellion groups seem to just be running a muck and doing whatever they like and causing a lot of damage Whilst not really achieving anything.

Do you have sympathy with what they are doing? Do you think it will achieve anything or do you think this is just an excuse for bad behaviour and criminality under the guise of protesting? "

I think what they are doing is a total disgrace, disrespectful and in my opinion completely wrong. These people should be shown no respect and dragged straight in front of a judge and charged. Maybe they could superglue themselves to prison bars

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By *a LunaWoman over a year ago

South Wales

I’m not entirely sure where I stand to be honest. Whilst I appreciate what they are trying to do, their methods just seem a bit petty.

Surely they could have handcuffed themselves to a radiator or something and been noisy. What does throwing a can of soup over a (protected) painting do? Apart from getting folk talking? Newspaper inches.

I admire them for getting off their ass for their cause. I’d like to think if I felt that strongly about something that I’d have the gumption to do something too. But then, I know I wouldn’t, because I wouldn’t want to be a bother to anyone.

But I think currently there are so many people with their own woes right now that folk have no sympathy and the message is getting dampened down and it’s just seen as another person trying to get “likes” on social media.

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By *rightonsteveMan over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

[Removed by poster at 14/10/22 18:41:46]

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By *rightonsteveMan over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

Maybe they thought because it was an oil painting then it was contributing towards climate change.

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By *aria_dreamgirlTV/TS over a year ago

stockport

How the fuck can an oil painting from decades ago contribute to climate change?

Look at deforestation by greedy business corporations first.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I'm not sure some of those arguing actually know what's happened, let alone why.

The paintings already behind glass.

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By *aria_dreamgirlTV/TS over a year ago

stockport

Well glueing yourself to a picture frame or throwing soup at a portrait isn't going to change anything. Just get arrested for criminal damage.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Well glueing yourself to a picture frame or throwing soup at a portrait isn't going to change anything. Just get arrested for criminal damage. "

Exactly.

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By *asycouple1971Couple over a year ago

midlands

Hope they get billed for the damage and all the court costs.

Maybe a week or two in jail as well.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Well glueing yourself to a picture frame or throwing soup at a portrait isn't going to change anything. Just get arrested for criminal damage. "

Appears to have raised their profile pretty well.

It's not a portrait.

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By *aria_dreamgirlTV/TS over a year ago

stockport

Well you might be impressed by an act of vandalism but most sensible people aren't

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I'm not sure some of those arguing actually know what's happened, let alone why.

The paintings already behind glass."

It doesn't matter whether the picture was damaged or not actually. We can't just go around throwing soup or paint or shit at statues or paintings.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Well glueing yourself to a picture frame or throwing soup at a portrait isn't going to change anything. Just get arrested for criminal damage.

Appears to have raised their profile pretty well.

It's not a portrait."

No it hasn't all it's done is anger people. But we're very aware of the just stop oil protesters well before this stunt.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Well you might be impressed by an act of vandalism but most sensible people aren't "

What is it you believe to have been vandalised?

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Well you might be impressed by an act of vandalism but most sensible people aren't

What is it you believe to have been vandalised?"

The frame was damaged. They have also been arrested for vandalism and aggravated trespass so the police obviously believe it.

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By *aria_dreamgirlTV/TS over a year ago

stockport

An attempt at vandalism. Stop splitting hairs.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Well glueing yourself to a picture frame or throwing soup at a portrait isn't going to change anything. Just get arrested for criminal damage.

Appears to have raised their profile pretty well.

It's not a portrait.

No it hasn't all it's done is anger people. But we're very aware of the just stop oil protesters well before this stunt."

Because you speak for people?

Your earlier comments suggested you weren't very aware of them.

I don't see how it can be argued that it hasn't raised their profile. News articles about it are everywhere!

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

"Well you might be impressed by an act of vandalism but most sensible people aren't "

If they threw a tin of soup then yes but it was soup on a protective glass cover..

Not entirely sure it deserves a stoning as seems to be the thinking by some (not you I hasten to add)..

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By *eavenNhellCouple over a year ago

carrbrook stalybridge

achieved nothing ?

your all talking about it = job done

no publicity is bad publicity if it brings one person into there way of thinking its what they want

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Well glueing yourself to a picture frame or throwing soup at a portrait isn't going to change anything. Just get arrested for criminal damage.

Appears to have raised their profile pretty well.

It's not a portrait.

No it hasn't all it's done is anger people. But we're very aware of the just stop oil protesters well before this stunt.

Because you speak for people?

Your earlier comments suggested you weren't very aware of them.

I don't see how it can be argued that it hasn't raised their profile. News articles about it are everywhere!"

Earlier comments if you had bothered to read them properly said I was very aware of them and had researched them.

I guarantee the vast majority but have heard about their actions today have simply been annoyed by them rather than them actually investigating their cause.

I have seen all over social media platforms the vast majority of people condemning what they have done not supporting them.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"achieved nothing ?

your all talking about it = job done

no publicity is bad publicity if it brings one person into there way of thinking its what they want "

That is exactly my point though we are not talking about them and their cause we are talking about their action. And you are wrong if you genuinely believe there is no such thing as bad publicity.

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By *inaTitzTV/TS over a year ago

Titz Towers, North Notts

Protest is very valid and I daresay it's hard to have an effective protest that achieves result if the letter of the law is followed.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Protest is very valid and I daresay it's hard to have an effective protest that achieves result if the letter of the law is followed. "

!!!!

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Protest is very valid and I daresay it's hard to have an effective protest that achieves result if the letter of the law is followed. "

And where do we draw the line Between protest and people behaving however they like because they believe they have a just cause?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Earlier comments if you had bothered to read them properly said I was very aware of them and had researched them.

I guarantee the vast majority but have heard about their actions today have simply been annoyed by them rather than them actually investigating their cause.

I have seen all over social media platforms the vast majority of people condemning what they have done not supporting them. "

It isn't sensible to assume, let alone guarantee, the shit you read on your social media feeds are reflective of what's really in the 'vast majority' of people's minds.

Possibly many, even most, people were annoyed. So what? Most are likely the same people that won't bother to understand the issues or even bother to check the facts of what happened but enjoy venting online regardless.

The protestors got the headlines they sought. I imagine they'll consider it a success.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Earlier comments if you had bothered to read them properly said I was very aware of them and had researched them.

I guarantee the vast majority but have heard about their actions today have simply been annoyed by them rather than them actually investigating their cause.

I have seen all over social media platforms the vast majority of people condemning what they have done not supporting them.

It isn't sensible to assume, let alone guarantee, the shit you read on your social media feeds are reflective of what's really in the 'vast majority' of people's minds.

The protestors got the headlines they sought. I imagine they'll consider it a success."

And that's the problem I have read and seen reports telling me what the protesters did and that they got arrested. If they see that as a success then that's really bad PR because nothing about why they were doing this or what they wanted out of this.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

People with a genuine interest will find those details easily enough.

People who like being outraged will get their fix too. But you know that.

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By *ora the explorerWoman over a year ago

Paradise, Herts

No I don’t have sympathy for them and don’t agree with a lot of it. But I do think a lot of people feel very strongly about certain things and are willing to break the law and also accept the consequences to get their point across.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Earlier comments if you had bothered to read them properly said I was very aware of them and had researched them.

I guarantee the vast majority but have heard about their actions today have simply been annoyed by them rather than them actually investigating their cause.

I have seen all over social media platforms the vast majority of people condemning what they have done not supporting them.

It isn't sensible to assume, let alone guarantee, the shit you read on your social media feeds are reflective of what's really in the 'vast majority' of people's minds.

The protestors got the headlines they sought. I imagine they'll consider it a success."

It’s interesting because all across my social media accounts, I’ve seen nothing but support for them. Only on here have I seen different. So also important to remember we often create echo chambers on our social media, as we often only follow and interact with like minded thinkers. This can’t be seen as what the “vast majority” think.

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By *rightonsteveMan over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

I’ve spent some time looking through the posts and I must say that the person who suggested that Sunflowers by Vincent Van Gogh was improved by having ketchup thrown at it hasn’t a clue about how action painting a la Pollock works.

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