FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > the incel movement

the incel movement

By *oxy j OP Woman over a year ago

taunton somerset

wow was just having a nosey on the sky news page and saw this about the incel movement..

The incel - or 'involuntarily celibate' - movement is an online subculture involving men who feel unable to have sex or find love and express hostility and extreme resentment towards women.

its a shocking read id never heard of it before anyone else read it and what do you think...

im not giving the link as im not sure its allowed its on the sky new page ... sent a shiver thru me

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By *cots99Man over a year ago

London

I haven't read the article but from what I have read they seem nasty people who think the world owes them a living.

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By *isaB45Woman over a year ago

Fabville

Sadly, the incel movement has been around for quite some time.

Some members of the movement believe that they are entitled to sex; not too dissimilar to some views expressed here on occasion.

Best avoided. Would not recommend.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

They’re empowered by the internet and their one handed typing skills.

They’re not worth worrying about.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If you're interested in reading more there's a book by Laura Bates called Men Who Hate Women. I won't say it's an 'enjoyable' read, but very eye opening to the real dangers within these groups.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Basically sad men who blame women for the fact they can’t get a shag. If they spent more time bettering themselves rather than blaming others they wouldn’t be in the predicament they’re in.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Channel 4 did a documentary, The Virgin Killer, about one infamous incel called Elliot Roger.

He took his hatred to another level, one seriously messed up little scrote

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Channel 4 did a documentary, The Virgin Killer, about one infamous incel called Elliot Roger.

He took his hatred to another level, one seriously messed up little scrote "

There's also been George Sodini and Chris Harper Mercer. These men are seen as martyrs amongst the incel movement.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

As previously mentioned on this thread there appears to be some members of this group on here and they post threads regarding their lack of sexual encounters regularly.

Imho a subculture best avoided at all costs.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Channel 4 did a documentary, The Virgin Killer, about one infamous incel called Elliot Roger.

He took his hatred to another level, one seriously messed up little scrote

There's also been George Sodini and Chris Harper Mercer. These men are seen as martyrs amongst the incel movement. "

Yeah, an odious subsection of society. 4chan and the like are a lot to blame for allowing these malcontents a breeding ground

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I've come across many an incel on here unfortunately

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By *yron69Man over a year ago

Fareham

Its a thing been around for years. Except the Internet brings them together into a thing.

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By *ablo minibar123Woman over a year ago

There was that guy recently (may have been years ago now, I lose track of time) killed 4 people, they described him as an incel on the news,that was the first time I had heard the term.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"wow was just having a nosey on the sky news page and saw this about the incel movement..

The incel - or 'involuntarily celibate' - movement is an online subculture involving men who feel unable to have sex or find love and express hostility and extreme resentment towards women.

its a shocking read id never heard of it before anyone else read it and what do you think...

im not giving the link as im not sure its allowed its on the sky new page ... sent a shiver thru me "

Just read it, it's easy to find without a link. Not sure on forum rules about the story content.

It is shocking. They blame everyone else for their issues. Best to try and avoid them.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Like most movements, it’s exaggerated

Kinda like after 9/11 when everyone thought Muslims with beards were all terrorists

But there’s definitely some truth to it, but the media makes it out to be much worse than it is

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By *wisted999Man over a year ago

North Bucks

That chap who has recently been arrested in the US for approaching people and engineering situations to pepper spray them what a creature.

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By *lephantisMan over a year ago

Oxford

"If you're interested in reading more there's a book by Laura Bates called Men Who Hate Women. I won't say it's an 'enjoyable' read, but very eye opening to the real dangers within these groups. "

It's a great book. I've met Laura: she's a wonderful communicator and really good at talking to teenagers about these dangers.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It seriously worries me. The Laura Bates book is an eye opener.

Men who don't like women but think they're entitled to fuck us. It's pervasive here.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Like most movements, it’s exaggerated

Kinda like after 9/11 when everyone thought Muslims with beards were all terrorists

But there’s definitely some truth to it, but the media makes it out to be much worse than it is "

I don't think that's true. After it hit the news because of the killings in Plymouth I spoke to my niece and nephew about it who are both in their late teams are in twenties. I'd never heard of an incel before but they definitely had and said there was a group at their college that called themselves that. I think we down play and ignore this subsection of society at our peril.

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By *oly Fuck Sticks BatmanCouple over a year ago

here & there

It’s been around for years, one of the chaps at work has resigned himself from never having a relationship as he’s not conventionally attractive. So declared himself an incel during a break, he’s not hostile at all but has some quite out there views - this was about 4/5 years ago.

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By *lephantisMan over a year ago

Oxford

"Like most movements, it’s exaggerated

Kinda like after 9/11 when everyone thought Muslims with beards were all terrorists

But there’s definitely some truth to it, but the media makes it out to be much worse than it is

Absolutely. Millions identify with it in the UK, USA, and Japan. Not all are violent, but they are all entitled misogynists, and angry young men, as we all know, are easily drawn to violence.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It seems to be very easy for these 'groups' to form online nowadays. From flat earthers to QAnon, anti-vaxxers to anti-5G, they all find their niches online and can spread their 'philosophy' very easily via social media and then cross-pollinate. Most of them seem to turn violent or at least into a threat in some way, even the moronic flat earthers!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Like most movements, it’s exaggerated

Kinda like after 9/11 when everyone thought Muslims with beards were all terrorists

But there’s definitely some truth to it, but the media makes it out to be much worse than it is

Well obviously they are right then. My mistake

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Like most movements, it’s exaggerated

Kinda like after 9/11 when everyone thought Muslims with beards were all terrorists

But there’s definitely some truth to it, but the media makes it out to be much worse than it is

Well obviously they are right then. My mistake "

I think anybody that thinks this is being overhyped is naive.

These people have always existed the difference is that they have a way of connecting with each other and backing up their ideologies.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

From a female perspective and the mother of a son, it's not the just the threat of more violence from these groups. The unhappiness of young men leads to many more problems for them and for us. And misogyny is just toxic.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Like most movements, it’s exaggerated

Kinda like after 9/11 when everyone thought Muslims with beards were all terrorists

But there’s definitely some truth to it, but the media makes it out to be much worse than it is

Well obviously they are right then. My mistake

I think anybody that thinks this is being overhyped is naive.

These people have always existed the difference is that they have a way of connecting with each other and backing up their ideologies. "

I believe it’s a huge group of men thst range from just lonely to radically violent, and the 0.1% that are that way are being focused on

Who knows, it’s just opinions

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"If you're interested in reading more there's a book by Laura Bates called Men Who Hate Women. I won't say it's an 'enjoyable' read, but very eye opening to the real dangers within these groups.

It's a great book. I've met Laura: she's a wonderful communicator and really good at talking to teenagers about these dangers."

I recommend it frequently. I've just bought her most recent one off the back of this thread.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Like most movements, it’s exaggerated

Kinda like after 9/11 when everyone thought Muslims with beards were all terrorists

But there’s definitely some truth to it, but the media makes it out to be much worse than it is

Well obviously they are right then. My mistake

I think anybody that thinks this is being overhyped is naive.

These people have always existed the difference is that they have a way of connecting with each other and backing up their ideologies.

I believe it’s a huge group of men thst range from just lonely to radically violent, and the 0.1% that are that way are being focused on

Who knows, it’s just opinions "

a huge group of men who blame women for all their woes - what could go wrong?

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By *aith SkynbyrdWoman over a year ago

Somewhere else

"Like most movements, it’s exaggerated

Kinda like after 9/11 when everyone thought Muslims with beards were all terrorists

But there’s definitely some truth to it, but the media makes it out to be much worse than it is

Absolutely. Millions identify with it in the UK, USA, and Japan. Not all are violent, but they are all entitled misogynists, and angry young men, as we all know, are easily drawn to violence."

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"If you're interested in reading more there's a book by Laura Bates called Men Who Hate Women. I won't say it's an 'enjoyable' read, but very eye opening to the real dangers within these groups. "

A very difficult read for sure! Especially when it's tied to so much violent crime (mass shootings mainly) around the world! The most recent one near us in Plymouth, he was an incel and that's why he shot his mum and aunt first, before the indiscriminate shooting after.

Incels are a very real thing in the real world right next to us unfortunately. They recruit in unis around the world now quite openly, and I know of cases recently,in this country, one that ended up with a young man, aged 20, ending up in prison for 20 years after a plea bargain!

I've seriously educated my daughter and her friends about how you talk and behave around male strangers!

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By *ackformore100Man over a year ago

Tin town

Don't know much about "the movement" other than it exists. I do know some men and teens have some pretty toxic and unhealthy ideas and labelling them as all one thing or another is an unhelpful and not very intelligent over simification.

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By *aith SkynbyrdWoman over a year ago

Somewhere else

[Removed by poster at 30/09/22 07:57:38]

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By *ackformore100Man over a year ago

Tin town

"Don't know much about "the movement" other than it exists. I do know some men and teens have some pretty toxic and unhealthy ideas and labelling them as all one thing or another is an unhelpful and not very intelligent over simification. "

*simplification...

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By *aith SkynbyrdWoman over a year ago

Somewhere else

"Like most movements, it’s exaggerated

Kinda like after 9/11 when everyone thought Muslims with beards were all terrorists

But there’s definitely some truth to it, but the media makes it out to be much worse than it is

Well obviously they are right then. My mistake

I think anybody that thinks this is being overhyped is naive.

These people have always existed the difference is that they have a way of connecting with each other and backing up their ideologies. "

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Why is using the label incel not intelligent? What precisely is the problem with it?

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By *acey_RedWoman over a year ago

Liverpool

It's certainly very concerning. Especially those who have been driven to violence and murder by those type of views. The level of hopelessness and loneliness is pretty heartbreaking but it is unfortunate that it has led to such hatred. I wonder what the solution is and whether anything similar to the work done around terrorism and radicalisation could help these people.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple over a year ago

North West

They’re empowered by the internet and their one handed typing skills.

They’re not worth worrying about. "

I think the families of people murdered by incels, such as the guy in Plymouth who shot dead various people, including a child, would disagree about "not worth worrying about". https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-devon-61472480

The security services are very concerned about the incel movement, apparently. A lot of propensity for violence.

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By *lephantisMan over a year ago

Oxford

"Here and in many other places. The idea are spread online but they’re not confined to virtual spaces. At the extreme, these men kill people. Their prevalence out in the world makes it that much less safe for all of us. I don’t think there’s anything weird about being concerned about this."

Andrew Tate has literally millions of followers. It's huge.

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By *acey_RedWoman over a year ago

Liverpool

Incels is what the group call themselves, not a term others have labelled them as. There's a few similar ones like Men Going Their Own Way.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Ben Hurst is a bit of a hero when it comes to anti incels ... his Ted talk "Boys won’t be boys. Boys will be what we teach them to be" is worth a listen

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It's certainly very concerning. Especially those who have been driven to violence and murder by those type of views. The level of hopelessness and loneliness is pretty heartbreaking but it is unfortunate that it has led to such hatred. I wonder what the solution is and whether anything similar to the work done around terrorism and radicalisation could help these people. "

Discussing a solution is a good idea. The focus tends to be shaming any guy that’s lonely and upset

What is the solution? Is there one? Are governments taking enough action towards stopping radicalisation?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Discussing a solution is a good idea. The focus tends to be shaming any guy that’s lonely and upset

What is the solution? Is there one? Are governments taking enough action towards stopping radicalisation?"

As was mentioned, Laura Bates does talks in schools to reach boys before they're radicalised. I think addressing issues of teenage boys is one way to stop them becoming lonely and hopeless men. Schools are already aware of the risks that men like Andrew Tate have for vulnerable groups. I'm very glad he was banned, but I see Tate clones daily on TikTok!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

*simplification... "

I think labelling them as sad lonely men who need to try harder is the problem. (I'm not saying you are labelling them as this)

From what I've read, most of that comes from within their own community sadly.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Discussing a solution is a good idea. The focus tends to be shaming any guy that’s lonely and upset

What is the solution? Is there one? Are governments taking enough action towards stopping radicalisation?

I think that’s an excellent answer. Happy, well adjusted young men don’t go down that route. Starting at school is a good way to stop the problem before it manifests, and I’m pretty certain, I’d hope others agree, a lot of mens issues, like the sky high suicide rates, would also improve if we took steps in schools

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By *iking SoftiesCouple over a year ago

Chesterfield

Discussing a solution is a good idea. The focus tends to be shaming any guy that’s lonely and upset

What is the solution? Is there one? Are governments taking enough action towards stopping radicalisation?"

The Intel movement is actually mentioned in the Prevent training I have just had, the right referrals can lead to early intervention just like other with extremist groups.

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By *ea monkeyMan over a year ago

Manchester (he/him)

Discussing a solution is a good idea. The focus tends to be shaming any guy that’s lonely and upset

What is the solution? Is there one? Are governments taking enough action towards stopping radicalisation?"

I’m not sure what the solution is, extreme entitlement and misogyny is hard to eradicate, especially when it’s breeding in echo chambers.

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By *ackformore100Man over a year ago

Tin town

*simplification...

I think labelling them as sad lonely men who need to try harder is the problem. (I'm not saying you are labelling them as this)

From what I've read, most of that comes from within their own community sadly.

Yes that's the "labelling" I was referring to... That all of them are one thing or another. That they are fools that they are all (anything). It might be worth better understanding how and why they've become the way they have and further how aggression and violence toward women in our society has become such an issue. Its not a simple bunch of idiots that can be ignored or cast aside. There's work to be done.

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By *ackformore100Man over a year ago

Tin town

Discussing a solution is a good idea. The focus tends to be shaming any guy that’s lonely and upset

What is the solution? Is there one? Are governments taking enough action towards stopping radicalisation?

ignoring it certainly doesn't solve it.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

*simplification...

I think labelling them as sad lonely men who need to try harder is the problem. (I'm not saying you are labelling them as this)

From what I've read, most of that comes from within their own community sadly.

Most of it starts nowadays when teenage boys are allowed to lock themselves away gaming without real social interactions, then when they emerge as adults don't have the social skills to engage with females in a way that leads anywhere! Ladies, on the other hand have more choices than we've had for 1000s of years, even if they want to game then we can etc which, apparently, is threatening to men.

Mums have brought them up still doing the usual cooking and cleaning etc plus working and having their own money/hobbies. The increase in misandry in life is quite appalling ...

Add all this up and loads more, stir with a huge paddle ... they look online, send them off into the world and BAM! What do we think is going to happen?

NOW ALL THE ABOVE IS GENERALISING and not my thinking but having read loads of research etc on incels from all over the world then radicalisation of unhappy men is hardly surprising. Governments and law community all over are increasingly worried about it as more and more hate crime becomes linked to it.

As said earlier, I thought it was well worth sharing with my daughter and her friends! After all it'll affect their lives way more than mine ...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It's always been a think, but in our obsession to name and indentify everything into groups it's become new again.

It is frighting. Don't go looking for some of the forums they have online. You'll never meet men again!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Ben Hurst is a bit of a hero when it comes to anti incels ... his Ted talk "Boys won’t be boys. Boys will be what we teach them to be" is worth a listen "

I've just watched this. Really good talk.

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By *ackformore100Man over a year ago

Tin town

*simplification...

I think labelling them as sad lonely men who need to try harder is the problem. (I'm not saying you are labelling them as this)

From what I've read, most of that comes from within their own community sadly.

Mums have brought them up still doing the usual cooking and cleaning etc plus working and having their own money/hobbies. The increase in misandry in life is quite appalling ...

Add all this up and loads more, stir with a huge paddle ... they look online, send them off into the world and BAM! What do we think is going to happen?

As said earlier, I thought it was well worth sharing with my daughter and her friends! After all it'll affect their lives way more than mine ..."

Trying to simplify and discuss this complex issue on a chat board is hard but I think you're on the right lines. The changes have consequences, not all of them good, and we are starting to see some of the consequences now.. Removing / changing what were centuries of "norms" is going to have consequences.

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By *ackformore100Man over a year ago

Tin town

*simplification...

I think labelling them as sad lonely men who need to try harder is the problem. (I'm not saying you are labelling them as this)

From what I've read, most of that comes from within their own community sadly.

Mums have brought them up still doing the usual cooking and cleaning etc plus working and having their own money/hobbies. The increase in misandry in life is quite appalling ...

Add all this up and loads more, stir with a huge paddle ... they look online, send them off into the world and BAM! What do we think is going to happen?

As said earlier, I thought it was well worth sharing with my daughter and her friends! After all it'll affect their lives way more than mine ...

I don't think I used the word consequences enough there..

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By *hat Guy with the RopesMan over a year ago

Kingston upon Hull

It's that there t'internet.

It encourages unhealthy lifestyles. It's easy to find a load of fellow misogynistic, blinkered, socially and physically inept lickspittles, who then encourage each other to the point of believing their own nonesense.

Suitably empowered they then inflict their beliefs on the rest of a frankly unimpressed society.

It's often refered to as the Tory party.....

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By *ackformore100Man over a year ago

Tin town

[Removed by poster at 30/09/22 08:59:02]

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By *ea monkeyMan over a year ago

Manchester (he/him)

To my mind the question is; how do the indoctrinated become deprogrammed?

It’s great to talk about prevention and how to guard against young boys becoming this way, but how to help men who hold these views?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"To my mind the question is; how do the indoctrinated become deprogrammed?

It’s great to talk about prevention and how to guard against young boys becoming this way, but how to help men who hold these views?

That is the ponderance! Deprogramming anyone who has been radicalised in any way ... it's incredibly difficult and more often that not doesn't work well

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"To my mind the question is; how do the indoctrinated become deprogrammed?

It’s great to talk about prevention and how to guard against young boys becoming this way, but how to help men who hold these views?

Probably with some compassion and understanding. Maybe some encouragement. Maybe by not pointing the incel finger and labelling them violent loser virgins. The fact that “virgin” is still a commonly used insult towards men shows a lot about how our society places high value on getting laid, and if your not you must be a loser.

And even then, I dunno if that’s enough, it’s an extremely tough job reprogramming that kinda stuff. How do governments do it with religious extremism? Would it be a similar path?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

A very troubling movement for sure so I'd just add two things.

First, there are millions of isolated and lonely men (and women) the vast majority of whom are far more likely to do harm to themselves than others.

Second, abuse and violence towards women overwhelming takes place in relationships and many men who have plenty of sex and still show a strong sense of entitlement and misogony.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Strange nobody seems to be interested in discussing why these incels, along with red pills, herbivors (Japanese version) and mgtows, all seem to be walking away from women and relationships to different degrees? The incels are the extremists of a much larger movement of men walking away from women.

The rise of more masculine youtubers doesn't seem to be yielding anytime soon. And when society tells young men (and all other men) that they are mysoginistic, toxic, sexist, and in the case of white men racist, dispensible and no longer needed in society by women is it any wonder? Men need to have a place in society, yet they are told they no longer have one so they are lost, angry and looking for an outlet. Some use games, some use porn, some use violence.

The people on this site all love sex, and all the men on the site love them for that. Women control sex, men control relationships. As long as men have their place in the lives of their women and get sex, then all is well.

For the most part I would say that's how the fine men and women on this site get along so well the majority of the time.

If society wants to reduce the incel movement then it needs to treat them better, give them purpose and give them a role to fulfil. Society cannot blame men for being like this when (I personally believe) its society that made them that way.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Strange nobody seems to be interested in discussing why these incels, along with red pills, herbivors (Japanese version) and mgtows, all seem to be walking away from women and relationships to different degrees? The incels are the extremists of a much larger movement of men walking away from women.

For the most part I would say that's how the fine men and women on this site get along so well the majority of the time.

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By *arriedcoupleNECouple over a year ago

Newcastle upon Tyne

The hard part about breaking down the incel ideology is that is has to be done by men and not the usual role models as they're seen as part of the problem.

If David Beckham is saying the beliefs are wrong and it's really not like that it's easy to brush it off as for him of course it's not like that. He's a top 20%er, he just wants to maintain the status quo.

Women's opinions don't matter to them so regardless of the arguements they simply aren't going to find an audience.

It's going to need to come from a grassroots level and will take time as young men realise they can build great lives just different ones from 3 generations ago.

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By *ea monkeyMan over a year ago

Manchester (he/him)

"A very troubling movement for sure so I'd just add two things.

First, there are millions of isolated and lonely men (and women) the vast majority of whom are far more likely to do harm to themselves than others.

Second, abuse and violence towards women overwhelming takes place in relationships and many men who have plenty of sex and still show a strong sense of entitlement and misogony.

I tend to agree with you on both points but this is kind of derailing and feels a bit like whataboutism.

The disenfranchised aspect of society and domestic abuse are also very serious topics and share certain aspects; misogyny, entitlement and isolation, which all deserve discussion and solving in their own rights but the incel ‘movement’ is its own thing

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By *ea monkeyMan over a year ago

Manchester (he/him)

For the most part I would say that's how the fine men and women on this site get along so well the majority of the time.

Society in general has and specifically social media. Echo chambers and algorithms that polarise opinions have helped this become far worse.

The question is in response; how does society solve these issues and what roles do we give them when they believe everything toxic thing they say and write?

What place do we have for hate?

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By *atnip make me purrWoman over a year ago

Reading

Yes i sometimes see glimpses of it on forum posts.

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By *stbury DavenportMan over a year ago

Nottingham

Yep, the incel movement is a real and genuine threat. It's been around a long time now, and it's great that more people are finally noticing. In addition to being dangerous in themselves, it's also a recruitment pipeline into the right wing.

As has been noted above, there's quite a few people on here with at least incel-adjacent viewpoints. While a lot seem to red-flag themselves pretty quickly, it's the ones who don't that I worry about.

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By *wist my nipplesCouple over a year ago

North East Scotland, mostly

"A very troubling movement for sure so I'd just add two things.

First, there are millions of isolated and lonely men (and women) the vast majority of whom are far more likely to do harm to themselves than others.

Second, abuse and violence towards women overwhelming takes place in relationships and many men who have plenty of sex and still show a strong sense of entitlement and misogony.

I tend to agree with you on both points but this is kind of derailing and feels a bit like whataboutism.

I see where you're coming from, Tea, but I don't think it exists in isolation. Where has this come from? What's changed in society? Women have become more independent. This movement has been in train since the end of WW2 - in earnest since the pill became widely available - and will continue. This is bound to affect men's traditional societal roles. How we, as a society, make space for each other without tearing each other to pieces is the challenge, to my mind.

Mrs TMN x

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By *ackformore100Man over a year ago

Tin town

For the most part I would say that's how the fine men and women on this site get along so well the majority of the time.

I don't think its true "nobody is asking" but not many and not loud enough.... After all its much easier to point fingers and call them names and make it all about them rather than hold up a mirror and put time and effort into learning something and making some changes...

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By *TG3Man over a year ago

Dorchester

"wow was just having a nosey on the sky news page and saw this about the incel movement..

The incel - or 'involuntarily celibate' - movement is an online subculture involving men who feel unable to have sex or find love and express hostility and extreme resentment towards women.

its a shocking read id never heard of it before anyone else read it and what do you think...

im not giving the link as im not sure its allowed its on the sky new page ... sent a shiver thru me "
Sounds gruesome but it's just born from the inability to perform, they put up a psychological logical barrier that makes the subject matter ' women' distasteful, I on the other hand am the exact opposite of this lol

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Incel’s have committed a number of shootings in the US so it is an issue…

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Incel’s have committed a number of shootings in the US so it is an issue…"

In the UK, Canada and Australia

it's worse than people believe it is

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"wow was just having a nosey on the sky news page and saw this about the incel movement..

The incel - or 'involuntarily celibate' - movement is an online subculture involving men who feel unable to have sex or find love and express hostility and extreme resentment towards women.

its a shocking read id never heard of it before anyone else read it and what do you think...

im not giving the link as im not sure its allowed its on the sky new page ... sent a shiver thru me Sounds gruesome but it's just born from the inability to perform, they put up a psychological logical barrier that makes the subject matter ' women' distasteful, I on the other hand am the exact opposite of this lol "

Read the thread and then maybe you won't just virtue signal?

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By *aturegentdurhamMan over a year ago

Stanley

Sadly there are many on here who have a similar mind set as incel.

Thinking they should have sex with anyone they message.

And if they get turned down then the nasty messages start to fly.

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By *ackformore100Man over a year ago

Tin town

"A very troubling movement for sure so I'd just add two things.

First, there are millions of isolated and lonely men (and women) the vast majority of whom are far more likely to do harm to themselves than others.

Second, abuse and violence towards women overwhelming takes place in relationships and many men who have plenty of sex and still show a strong sense of entitlement and misogony.

I tend to agree with you on both points but this is kind of derailing and feels a bit like whataboutism.

Mrs TMN x"

Yep I think it's rooted in the societal changes which have pretty much universally been celebrated as positives but with no thought to those effected and how. Squeezing a balloon springs to mind.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I forget the actual names now but I listened to a journalistic podcast investigating these groups, particularly the influencers who have published books and go on speaking tours...

This might actually be the men's movement rather than self identified incels.

Some of the published work was 'dating' tips - how to get the sex you deserve, which includes such handy tactics as how to bypass consent - befriending single females at bars, buying them drinks, targeting 'ugly' women so they can be gaslighted at the end, always use a condom and plenty of lube so there's no evidence of they call foul play..

They are anti feminist, and also believe that feminism has gone too far with women today having short hair and being too fat so that they aren't attractive to men! When their goal should be making themselves attractive to men to secure themselves a husband.

There was also that move I think in the US rather than here, to redefine *the word that means sex without consent* so that it didn't apply inside a house ie if a woman entered the man's house then legally she had implied consent to have sex

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By *ou only live onceMan over a year ago

London

"A very troubling movement for sure so I'd just add two things.

First, there are millions of isolated and lonely men (and women) the vast majority of whom are far more likely to do harm to themselves than others.

Second, abuse and violence towards women overwhelming takes place in relationships and many men who have plenty of sex and still show a strong sense of entitlement and misogony.

I tend to agree with you on both points but this is kind of derailing and feels a bit like whataboutism.

Mrs TMN x

Yep I think it's rooted in the societal changes which have pretty much universally been celebrated as positives but with no thought to those effected and how. Squeezing a balloon springs to mind. "

Not sure I'd agree with that. The incel idea, as far as I understand it, is that they are celibate because of women. Not true, of course. So giving them an "out" that it's down to 'societal changes' feels like a cop out to me. What's that argument: that women working or having more freedom over lives has affected men so deeply it's causing some to become incel...?? Gets close to the incel thought process itself of blaming women for their circumstance (I'm in no way saying that's what you think, but it's the extension of that argument).

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By *wist my nipplesCouple over a year ago

North East Scotland, mostly

"A very troubling movement for sure so I'd just add two things.

First, there are millions of isolated and lonely men (and women) the vast majority of whom are far more likely to do harm to themselves than others.

Second, abuse and violence towards women overwhelming takes place in relationships and many men who have plenty of sex and still show a strong sense of entitlement and misogony.

I tend to agree with you on both points but this is kind of derailing and feels a bit like whataboutism.

Mrs TMN x

Yep I think it's rooted in the societal changes which have pretty much universally been celebrated as positives but with no thought to those effected and how. Squeezing a balloon springs to mind. "

Um, not quite what I meant. Society will always change, and for me, working towards a more equitable society for all is always positive although not a straightforward process. More independence for women will always have ripples in other parts of society but to state that there has been "no thought to those effected and how" doesn't sit well with me. The follow on from that would seem to be "know your place so you don't upset the apple cart". Happy to be corrected if that's not what you meant.

Mrs TMN x

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I forget the actual names now but I listened to a journalistic podcast investigating these groups, particularly the influencers who have published books and go on speaking tours...

This might actually be the men's movement rather than self identified incels.

PUA (pick up artists), also a section of the 'Manosphere'.

I do think patriarchy and leading to that toxic masculinity has a huge role to play in sending these men down that path. People ridicule #notallmen, but it's true we shouldn't fear all men.

As the mother of teens of both sexes I can see they both have their own separate issues to deal with in navigating life into adulthood but I feel the problem comes from the same root cause of what men or women should behave like & what's expected of them in rigid gender roles.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I have a bone to pick with such lazy thinking that can't see the difference between a movement, that has aims, a leader, goals and a manifesto or at least set ideology. The current 'Incel movement' is just more and more people being tagged as being an Incel. As more are tagged, the numbers seemingly grow. People confuse this with a movement appearing. It's not. A subset of men have always been like this, behaved like this, but never been named like this. The key word is involuntary. This hints that those people perhaps feel entitled not to be how they are, and perhaps that is the real 'movement' here, self entitlement.

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By *wist my nipplesCouple over a year ago

North East Scotland, mostly

"I have a bone to pick with such lazy thinking that can't see the difference between a movement, that has aims, a leader, goals and a manifesto or at least set ideology. The current 'Incel movement' is just more and more people being tagged as being an Incel. As more are tagged, the numbers seemingly grow. People confuse this with a movement appearing. It's not. A subset of men have always been like this, behaved like this, but never been named like this. The key word is involuntary. This hints that those people perhaps feel entitled not to be how they are, and perhaps that is the real 'movement' here, self entitlement."

I have a bone to pick with someone calling other people's opinions "lazy thinking", but hey, we all have our cross to bear

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It's a bigger problem than people realise.

It's growing online, so people don't really notice it till the anger and hatred spills into real life.

I think young men spending all their time online playing games and the increasing childhood obesity is playing a huge role in its growth, it's self perpetuating.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I found the investigation piece I was referring to... Its around 45 minutes long

https://youtu.be/JP9ucyoJraQ

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Its like loser international out there someone should teach em how to talk to people would help

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It's a bigger problem than people realise.

It's growing online, so people don't really notice it till the anger and hatred spills into real life.

I think young men spending all their time online playing games and the increasing childhood obesity is playing a huge role in its growth, it's self perpetuating."

Obesity is a new one

I think the issue with spending all your time online is that it doesn’t develop social skills, and it’s allows you to enter into echo chambers. Then you have social media where people only post their best stuff. It’s looks like everyone is ripped, rich and has 12 girlfriends. That’s not reality, it’s distorted, but it’s hard to tell when you rarely venture into the real world.

I didn’t think being overweight was a part of that, especially since the obesity crisis is effecting women more then men and we don’t see these issues replicated

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By *ackformore100Man over a year ago

Tin town

"A very troubling movement for sure so I'd just add two things.

First, there are millions of isolated and lonely men (and women) the vast majority of whom are far more likely to do harm to themselves than others.

Second, abuse and violence towards women overwhelming takes place in relationships and many men who have plenty of sex and still show a strong sense of entitlement and misogony.

I tend to agree with you on both points but this is kind of derailing and feels a bit like whataboutism.

Mrs TMN x

Yep I think it's rooted in the societal changes which have pretty much universally been celebrated as positives but with no thought to those effected and how. Squeezing a balloon springs to mind.

Mrs TMN x "

Not what I meant no. If you make a change in an organisation. Generally, those that are successful, consider the whole organisation and how those changes impact others. You fundamentally change society.. Then there will be impacts that can either be considered.. Or not. Working from home, isolation, obesity, equality movements, less manufacturing, religion... And on.. Massive changes. If we were a virus we'd be worrying about mutations and how to limit their impacts. I don't think we have adapted well to some of the changes.

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By *agerMorganMan over a year ago

Canvey Island

Having spoke to an Incel, there mindset is f*cking terrifying!

What you see & read about is nothing once you dip below the surface, talking about killing women, killing gym goers, confident people etc etc. They also blame their woes on those on the far left, transgender movement, feminism etc.

It’s one hell of a dangerous movement, far more so than the alt-right in my opinion.

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By *ohn KanakaMan over a year ago

Not all that North of North London

[Removed by poster at 30/09/22 10:40:12]

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By *ohn KanakaMan over a year ago

Not all that North of North London

"Having spoke to an Incel, there mindset is f*cking terrifying!

It’s one hell of a dangerous movement, far more so than the alt-right in my opinion. "

I suspect that there is a significant criss over between incels and the alt right

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By *wist my nipplesCouple over a year ago

North East Scotland, mostly

"A very troubling movement for sure so I'd just add two things.

First, there are millions of isolated and lonely men (and women) the vast majority of whom are far more likely to do harm to themselves than others.

Second, abuse and violence towards women overwhelming takes place in relationships and many men who have plenty of sex and still show a strong sense of entitlement and misogony.

I tend to agree with you on both points but this is kind of derailing and feels a bit like whataboutism.

Mrs TMN x

Yep I think it's rooted in the societal changes which have pretty much universally been celebrated as positives but with no thought to those effected and how. Squeezing a balloon springs to mind.

Mrs TMN x

I'm not sure your analogy holds up. Our society isn't organised like a business. It's full of individuals. Yes, there are bigger trends, but there's not a boss at the top controlling it and mitigating for unintended consequences.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I only heard about it a few years ago.

It's highly concerning, and how some people try to tell us not to worry about it makes me so uncomfortable. Sure, you get men everywhere in life who have this attitude regardless of if they are in this kind of movement or not.

But that doesn’t mean we shouldn't worry about it. When I've looked into it I've seen that these kind of groups do nothing but breed hate, misogyny and self-pity.

I'm not sure what the solution is. But with social media having more of a presence than ever, I do worry where it will lead out as they grow in numbers. I think it would be easy for kids to be sucked into it too, and then the views and actions they'll hold at such a young age.

I don't have time for anyone who thinks it's somehow justifiable.

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By *bi HaiveMan over a year ago
Forum Mod

Cheeseville, Somerset

For the most part I would say that's how the fine men and women on this site get along so well the majority of the time.

OK. Here's my 2p on these comments.

Women don't control sex. That attitude itself and the perpetuation of that idea is harmful in itself and does nothing to promote any sense of equality and inclusion for men. Likewise the idea that 'men control relationships' is equally ridiculous.

If you really think that all you need to ensure that 'all is well' is for women to allow their men to have sex than that opens a whole can of worms. Should women just lie back and put out to ensure their man doesn't go off the rails, become angry or violent or seek their kicks elsewhere?

Society should treat everyone equally. It doesn't need to treat these men better than women or anyone else. What happened to personal responsibility? What happened to living your life without a sense of entitlement and any notion that you should be automatically be getting a role to fill without earning it and developing on a personal level the social skills required to function in society?

It always seems to be someone else's fault that these men feel how they do and that's the fundamental issue. There's no self reflection, no ownership of charachter flaws and no desire to adjust behaviour that other deem undesirable or unacceptable.

Society didn't make them this way. Its not responsible for personal life choices.

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By *inaTitzTV/TS over a year ago

Titz Towers, North Notts

They're a most unpleasant group.

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By *agerMorganMan over a year ago

Canvey Island

"Having spoke to an Incel, there mindset is f*cking terrifying!

It’s one hell of a dangerous movement, far more so than the alt-right in my opinion.

I suspect that there is a significant criss over between incels and the alt right "

The alt-right are pretty open about what they think, the incel movement is entirely online and behind anonymous names. You can punch the alt-right, you can’t punch an incel as you don’t know what they look like or act.

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By *wingin CatMan over a year ago

London

[Removed by poster at 30/09/22 10:48:58]

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By *wingin CatMan over a year ago

London

Another screwball import from the USA, just like QAnon, conspiracy theorists, MAGA etc....the list goes on.

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By *etcplCouple over a year ago

Gapping Fanny

I hate excel

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Not quite sure how this comment adds anything? Does anyone care if it is or isn't a movement? I don't give a monkeys.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"I hate excel"

It's not even nice to look at

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"If you're interested in reading more there's a book by Laura Bates called Men Who Hate Women. I won't say it's an 'enjoyable' read, but very eye opening to the real dangers within these groups. "

I've just ordered this. So thanks for mentioning it. I'm sure it will be an uncomfortable but interesting read.

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By *ackformore100Man over a year ago

Tin town

"Having spoke to an Incel, there mindset is f*cking terrifying!

It’s one hell of a dangerous movement, far more so than the alt-right in my opinion. "

You make a really good point. As I've not knowingly interacted with any "incels" so spouting words from my assumptions. Speaking and engaging with them is essential to understand the problem better.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I have a bone to pick with someone calling other people's opinions "lazy thinking", but hey, we all have our cross to bear

Well, I was referring the the headline makers, not any opinion in here, but I can't help who finds offence where none is intended. My opinion, rightly or wrongly, is that calling this a movement is lazy, because it's not a movement, it's a label. And calling it one, legitimises it. The suffragettes were a movement. Incels are not.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

For the most part I would say that's how the fine men and women on this site get along so well the majority of the time.

OK. Here's my 2p on these comments.

Society didn't make them this way. Its not responsible for personal life choices.

I see guys here state often that women control sex. The question was asked earlier - how do you combat people who're already a bit of a way down that line? And I find that those guys don't respond well to whatever women say - they just don't give any credence to us. I'm just dismissed as a feminist. Er, ok. Is it too B-road to suggest that other men (you know, the good ones) are the ones who can change minds here. Set the example?

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By *lym4realCouple over a year ago

plymouth

Where we live we had a single white male go on a shooting spree and killed 5 people and he was into this movement? and scary movement and sadly all these kinds of movements end up with people dying ?? and stranger still is the police's refusal to class the Keyham shootings as a "Terrorist" incident ?

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

Discussing a solution is a good idea. The focus tends to be shaming any guy that’s lonely and upset

What is the solution? Is there one? Are governments taking enough action towards stopping radicalisation?

How about individuals take steps instead of breeding when they have no intention of putting in the effort to raise a child.

How about parents put in 5 years graft on how to rear a balanced and happy child BEFORE the child gets to school and becomes a problem in a class of 30 or a school of 500.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

Development starts at birth. Not the school gates.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I hate excel"

Both incorrectly assume something is a date quite a lot...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Discussing a solution is a good idea. The focus tends to be shaming any guy that’s lonely and upset

What is the solution? Is there one? Are governments taking enough action towards stopping radicalisation?

How about individuals take steps instead of breeding when they have no intention of putting in the effort to raise a child.

How about parents put in 5 years graft on how to rear a balanced and happy child BEFORE the child gets to school and becomes a problem in a class of 30 or a school of 500. "

I am going to put bets on single mums being brought up. Why do you think parenting is to blame?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Discussing a solution is a good idea. The focus tends to be shaming any guy that’s lonely and upset

What is the solution? Is there one? Are governments taking enough action towards stopping radicalisation?

How about individuals take steps instead of breeding when they have no intention of putting in the effort to raise a child.

How about parents put in 5 years graft on how to rear a balanced and happy child BEFORE the child gets to school and becomes a problem in a class of 30 or a school of 500. "

How about it doesn’t need to be either or?

You could have just suggested your idea without trying to bash the other

People don’t stop developing for a long time. It should start before school, and it shouldn’t end with school either

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Not quite sure how this comment adds anything? Does anyone care if it is or isn't a movement? I don't give a monkeys. "

It adds that self entitlement, as a wider problem, is the true source of many of these issues. And that's a problem for society as a whole. As we get more self entitled, more and more will take that to extremes. I'm sorry you thought it added nothing. I'm not sure what yours did, but we're both allowed to post what we like I guess.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

Discussing a solution is a good idea. The focus tends to be shaming any guy that’s lonely and upset

What is the solution? Is there one? Are governments taking enough action towards stopping radicalisation?

How about individuals take steps instead of breeding when they have no intention of putting in the effort to raise a child.

How about parents put in 5 years graft on how to rear a balanced and happy child BEFORE the child gets to school and becomes a problem in a class of 30 or a school of 500.

I am going to put bets on single mums being brought up. Why do you think parenting is to blame?"

I never mentioned single mums. I never said parenting is to 'blame'

I indicated that parents have a responsibility for their own children before they get to school. Just gets to me everytime someone says lets teach this in school ........ as if the children hatch out of eggs age 5 in a school playground.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Discussing a solution is a good idea. The focus tends to be shaming any guy that’s lonely and upset

What is the solution? Is there one? Are governments taking enough action towards stopping radicalisation?

How about individuals take steps instead of breeding when they have no intention of putting in the effort to raise a child.

How about parents put in 5 years graft on how to rear a balanced and happy child BEFORE the child gets to school and becomes a problem in a class of 30 or a school of 500.

I am going to put bets on single mums being brought up. Why do you think parenting is to blame?

I never mentioned single mums. I never said parenting is to 'blame'

The reason say that is the government can step in a legally make this a teaching in school and set guidelines on how it’s taught

You can’t do that with parenting

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Not quite sure how this comment adds anything? Does anyone care if it is or isn't a movement? I don't give a monkeys.

Yep, of course we are. It just seemed pedantic to me rather than focussing on the issues.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

Discussing a solution is a good idea. The focus tends to be shaming any guy that’s lonely and upset

What is the solution? Is there one? Are governments taking enough action towards stopping radicalisation?

How about individuals take steps instead of breeding when they have no intention of putting in the effort to raise a child.

How about parents put in 5 years graft on how to rear a balanced and happy child BEFORE the child gets to school and becomes a problem in a class of 30 or a school of 500.

How about it doesn’t need to be either or?

You could have just suggested your idea without trying to bash the other

People don’t stop developing for a long time. It should start before school, and it shouldn’t end with school either

I didn't bash anyone.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Discussing a solution is a good idea. The focus tends to be shaming any guy that’s lonely and upset

What is the solution? Is there one? Are governments taking enough action towards stopping radicalisation?

How about individuals take steps instead of breeding when they have no intention of putting in the effort to raise a child.

How about parents put in 5 years graft on how to rear a balanced and happy child BEFORE the child gets to school and becomes a problem in a class of 30 or a school of 500.

How about it doesn’t need to be either or?

You could have just suggested your idea without trying to bash the other

People don’t stop developing for a long time. It should start before school, and it shouldn’t end with school either

I didn't bash anyones bishop.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If we want actionable ideas, saying “be better parents” isn’t one, sadly. Good advice, not actionable

However, we can push for schools to have stuff like this as a standard. We can force schools to have programs in place to notice and tackle problems before they get out of hand

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Agreed, school is not a life creche, it's the parents job to raise kids, and educate. Shools just do additional educating. parents abdicate so much to schools it's untrue, when my kids were starting schools I saw others the same age who still couldn't use a toilet unaided or put a velcro shoe on, reducing teachers to babysitters.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Discussing a solution is a good idea. The focus tends to be shaming any guy that’s lonely and upset

What is the solution? Is there one? Are governments taking enough action towards stopping radicalisation?

How about individuals take steps instead of breeding when they have no intention of putting in the effort to raise a child.

How about parents put in 5 years graft on how to rear a balanced and happy child BEFORE the child gets to school and becomes a problem in a class of 30 or a school of 500.

I am going to put bets on single mums being brought up. Why do you think parenting is to blame?

I never mentioned single mums. I never said parenting is to 'blame'

But no-one suggested parents don't have responsibility? I'd have to go looking for evidence, but I'd thought that pre-teens and teen boys are most vulnerable to incel thinking and certainly secondary schools are alert to the narrative spun by Andrew Tate et al. And a parents - I've had the Tate convo in my house more than once.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Discussing a solution is a good idea. The focus tends to be shaming any guy that’s lonely and upset

What is the solution? Is there one? Are governments taking enough action towards stopping radicalisation?

How about individuals take steps instead of breeding when they have no intention of putting in the effort to raise a child.

How about parents put in 5 years graft on how to rear a balanced and happy child BEFORE the child gets to school and becomes a problem in a class of 30 or a school of 500.

How about it doesn’t need to be either or?

You could have just suggested your idea without trying to bash the other

People don’t stop developing for a long time. It should start before school, and it shouldn’t end with school either

I didn't bash anyone.

To be fair, you did. "How about individuals take steps instead of breeding when they have no intention of putting in the effort to raise a child"

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

[Removed by poster at 30/09/22 11:06:08]

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By *ackformore100Man over a year ago

Tin town

"If we want actionable ideas, saying “be better parents” isn’t one, sadly. Good advice, not actionable

However, we can push for schools to have stuff like this as a standard. We can force schools to have programs in place to notice and tackle problems before they get out of hand"

Out of interest... What might the actionable tackle it in schools look like? I mean how practical is it to teach, assess, police and remedy values and attitudes towards women and relationships?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"If we want actionable ideas, saying “be better parents” isn’t one, sadly. Good advice, not actionable

However, we can push for schools to have stuff like this as a standard. We can force schools to have programs in place to notice and tackle problems before they get out of hand"

They actually have a great programme in terms of consent issues. I was quite impressed.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

Discussing a solution is a good idea. The focus tends to be shaming any guy that’s lonely and upset

What is the solution? Is there one? Are governments taking enough action towards stopping radicalisation?

How about individuals take steps instead of breeding when they have no intention of putting in the effort to raise a child.

How about parents put in 5 years graft on how to rear a balanced and happy child BEFORE the child gets to school and becomes a problem in a class of 30 or a school of 500.

How about it doesn’t need to be either or?

You could have just suggested your idea without trying to bash the other

People don’t stop developing for a long time. It should start before school, and it shouldn’t end with school either

I didn't bash anyone.

To be fair, you did. "How about individuals take steps instead of breeding when they have no intention of putting in the effort to raise a child""

To be totally fair. I didn't.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Discussing a solution is a good idea. The focus tends to be shaming any guy that’s lonely and upset

What is the solution? Is there one? Are governments taking enough action towards stopping radicalisation?

How about individuals take steps instead of breeding when they have no intention of putting in the effort to raise a child.

How about parents put in 5 years graft on how to rear a balanced and happy child BEFORE the child gets to school and becomes a problem in a class of 30 or a school of 500.

How about it doesn’t need to be either or?

You could have just suggested your idea without trying to bash the other

People don’t stop developing for a long time. It should start before school, and it shouldn’t end with school either

I didn't bash anyone.

To be fair, you did. "How about individuals take steps instead of breeding when they have no intention of putting in the effort to raise a child"

. Whatever.

To be totally fair. I didn't. "

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By *agerMorganMan over a year ago

Canvey Island

I have lost complete track of this convo now and it looks as though it’s detracted into bashing & childish behaviour.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"If we want actionable ideas, saying “be better parents” isn’t one, sadly. Good advice, not actionable

However, we can push for schools to have stuff like this as a standard. We can force schools to have programs in place to notice and tackle problems before they get out of hand

Out of interest... What might the actionable tackle it in schools look like? I mean how practical is it to teach, assess, police and remedy values and attitudes towards women and relationships? "

Your looking at the wrong side, in my opinion

You don’t tackle the issue by teaching kids not to be the problem

You look at what underlining issue cause the problem, and fix that.

I don’t wanna see “how not to be an incel” taught

I want to see more “how to be a well adjusted, happy person” - because a happy well adjusted guy won’t be an incel

The same way you don’t treat the obesity crisis with teaching “how not to be a fatty” and instead teach people how to cook, how to exercise, trying different sports and social groups etc

As Tea mentioned, if someone’s already deep in the incel game, I dunno how to fix that. So I want to see them not get there

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By *phroditeWoman over a year ago

(She/ her) in Sensualityland

"Development starts at birth. Not the school gates. "

This!

Problems can arise (though not exclusively as there are a multitude of influences on the young mind) through inept parenting as well as through a lack of "family", routine and the parents having experienced some of the negative factors themselves.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I have lost complete track of this convo now and it looks as though it’s detracted into bashing & childish behaviour.

A little derail.

Did you talk to the "incel" you mentioned online or in person? Do you think anything could turn him off that path?

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By *ackformore100Man over a year ago

Tin town

"If we want actionable ideas, saying “be better parents” isn’t one, sadly. Good advice, not actionable

However, we can push for schools to have stuff like this as a standard. We can force schools to have programs in place to notice and tackle problems before they get out of hand

Out of interest... What might the actionable tackle it in schools look like? I mean how practical is it to teach, assess, police and remedy values and attitudes towards women and relationships?

Your looking at the wrong side, in my opinion

You don’t tackle the issue by teaching kids not to be the problem

You look at what underlining issue cause the problem, and fix that.

I don’t wanna see “how not to be an incel” taught

I want to see more “how to be a well adjusted, happy person” - because a happy well adjusted guy won’t be an incel

The same way you don’t treat the obesity crisis with teaching “how not to be a fatty” and instead teach people how to cook, how to exercise, trying different sports and social groups etc

As Tea mentioned, if someone’s already deep in the incel game, I dunno how to fix that. So I want to see them not get there "

... Great comment.

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By *agerMorganMan over a year ago

Canvey Island

"I have lost complete track of this convo now and it looks as though it’s detracted into bashing & childish behaviour.

A little derail.

Did you talk to the "incel" you mentioned online or in person? Do you think anything could turn him off that path? "

In person, and unfortunately not. The mind view they had was “I’m never in the wrong, it’s always someone else’s fault” and that’s lead me to believe that Incels lack accountability for their own actions, nor believe that their actions have consequences.

i haven’t spoken to them since, purely on the basis that they went down the rabbit hole and now no longer open to difference of views.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I have a bone to pick with someone calling other people's opinions "lazy thinking", but hey, we all have our cross to bear

Unfortunately it is a movement, with known leaders and an agenda

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The crux of incel mentality seems to originate in a general sense of dissatisfaction in life, entitlement to success and sex and money and all the things social media generation have promoted as KPIs of life, and a complete lack of self-awareness or accountability.

It's a perfect storm of 'I want, gimmie, you're so mean, it's not me it's them, I hate all women, women are the problem'

It's not only the world inside homes and schools it's a sad indictment on modern society as a whole.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple over a year ago

North West

"I have lost complete track of this convo now and it looks as though it’s detracted into bashing & childish behaviour.

A little derail.

Did you talk to the "incel" you mentioned online or in person? Do you think anything could turn him off that path?

i haven’t spoken to them since, purely on the basis that they went down the rabbit hole and now no longer open to difference of views. "

It's the same with other "rabbit holes", like conspiracy theorists etc. It's almost impossible to get them out once they are in. My mother is so far beyond reality that she cannot be retrieved.

It's also clasic narcissistic behaviour, to blame others for things that go wrong, having no introspection or ability to self reflect. I think many incels and also conspiracy theorists fall into the bracket of narcissism.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Media massively misrepresents uncles as some sort of 'sub-culture' or 'movement'. It is neither.

It is in fact a social by-product of mass use of social media and technology. In its most basic sense, this is how some humans will develop when their parents leave them alone with a some sort of screen or media through their developmental years.

Take an interest in your own children. Leave them alone with a screen and fail to nurture them yourself and they'll turn to things online.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I have a bone to pick with someone calling other people's opinions "lazy thinking", but hey, we all have our cross to bear

Unfortunately it is a movement, with known leaders and an agenda "

Who are the known leaders?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I have lost complete track of this convo now and it looks as though it’s detracted into bashing & childish behaviour.

A little derail.

Did you talk to the "incel" you mentioned online or in person? Do you think anything could turn him off that path?

i haven’t spoken to them since, purely on the basis that they went down the rabbit hole and now no longer open to difference of views. "

I was afraid you'd say that. But I think incel-lite views can be successfully challenged - would you agree?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The crux of incel mentality seems to originate in a general sense of dissatisfaction in life, entitlement to success and sex and money and all the things social media generation have promoted as KPIs of life, and a complete lack of self-awareness or accountability.

It's a perfect storm of 'I want, gimmie, you're so mean, it's not me it's them, I hate all women, women are the problem'

It's not only the world inside homes and schools it's a sad indictment on modern society as a whole."
this nails it for me

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Media massively misrepresents uncles as some sort of 'sub-culture' or 'movement'. It is neither.

Take an interest in your own children. Leave them alone with a screen and fail to nurture them yourself and they'll turn to things online."

That's an interesting perspective. What do you base it on?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"That's an interesting perspective. What do you base it on? "

Simple observation. Many incels the media report have the same characteristics. They tend to be 'loners' and the fact they specifically highlight it as an 'online sub-culture'. That said, being a loner behind a screen isn't soley children, it could often be in people who are vulnerable. Like during the midlife crisis period.

The point were trying to make is too much online time for humans is not natural. Social media in itself can also bring out the very worst elements of humanity.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Media massively misrepresents uncles as some sort of 'sub-culture' or 'movement'. It is neither.

Take an interest in your own children. Leave them alone with a screen and fail to nurture them yourself and they'll turn to things online.

That's an interesting perspective. What do you base it on? "

It's kinda, if you don't bring up your kids, who is? If the people they most look up to never challenge them, correct them, make them work to be better etc as a parent should, but just give them the warm happy feeling of comfortable validation, then they'll take that easy path. I don't think this is rocket science, and obviously hashtag not all kids etc, but kids left to find their own echo chamber, when their skills knowledge and experience is so limited, will naturally lend to them gravitating to find bad company.

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By *ackformore100Man over a year ago

Tin town

"Media massively misrepresents uncles as some sort of 'sub-culture' or 'movement'. It is neither.

Take an interest in your own children. Leave them alone with a screen and fail to nurture them yourself and they'll turn to things online.

That's an interesting perspective. What do you base it on? "

Common sense? Encouraging your kid to be isolated in front of a screen is not encouraging or rewarding their social skills. Let alone the stuff they have access to.

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By *uiet_69Man over a year ago

Near

I believe if men are turning against women because of the lack of attention then like any good peacock they need to up their game. I’m a beautiful man but unfortunately my dad bod limits me to the genuine ladies who only care about personality, wit and humour. And as Elvis once said

“That’s all right with me”

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"That's an interesting perspective. What do you base it on?

The point were trying to make is too much online time for humans is not natural. Social media in itself can also bring out the very worst elements of humanity."

It's just that you stated your opinion as fact - so I thought you have some research to point to? Ok.

I do find it fascinating that girl children also spend time online and yet...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Media massively misrepresents uncles as some sort of 'sub-culture' or 'movement'. It is neither.

Take an interest in your own children. Leave them alone with a screen and fail to nurture them yourself and they'll turn to things online.

That's an interesting perspective. What do you base it on?

Common sense? Encouraging your kid to be isolated in front of a screen is not encouraging or rewarding their social skills. Let alone the stuff they have access to. "

It's not the first conclusion I jump to, I must admit. I think the changing roles of the sexes over decades has had more impact. My opinion.

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By *..WillowCouple over a year ago

East Lincs

I had never heard of the term INCEL before this thread. Having read it I thought I would have a look at an INCEL forum.

I can only say I am truly shocked at the vitriol and hate of women (foids) that I found on there, also of other men (chads) that I gather are men who successfully meet women.

An altogether unpleasant and hateful group of individuals.

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By *ackformore100Man over a year ago

Tin town

"That's an interesting perspective. What do you base it on?

The point were trying to make is too much online time for humans is not natural. Social media in itself can also bring out the very worst elements of humanity.

It's just that you stated your opinion as fact - so I thought you have some research to point to? Ok.

I do find it fascinating that girl children also spend time online and yet..."

Lots of girls have significant issues too. No idea if or how much they may be linked with isolation or not. But I'm sure by now some wise people have some studies.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The theory that social media and children not being brought up properly and too much screen time - how does that explain that incels are nearly all white males?

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By *ackformore100Man over a year ago

Tin town

"Media massively misrepresents uncles as some sort of 'sub-culture' or 'movement'. It is neither.

Take an interest in your own children. Leave them alone with a screen and fail to nurture them yourself and they'll turn to things online.

That's an interesting perspective. What do you base it on?

Common sense? Encouraging your kid to be isolated in front of a screen is not encouraging or rewarding their social skills. Let alone the stuff they have access to.

It's not the first conclusion I jump to, I must admit. I think the changing roles of the sexes over decades has had more impact. My opinion."

Yep I tend to agree with that too.

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By *uiet_69Man over a year ago

Near

"The theory that social media and children not being brought up properly and too much screen time - how does that explain that incels are nearly all white males?"

I am black from the waist down. And proud

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It's not the first conclusion I jump to, I must admit. I think the changing roles of the sexes over decades has had more impact. My opinion."

Yeah, I think changing roles and sexual dynamics definitely play a part, and just as with conspiracy theories, the internet has given this opinions a place to congregate, a platform to voice their opinions and find those that agree.

Which inflates the scale of the issue and draws others in.

Worrying.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 30/09/22 11:56:09]

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The theory that social media and children not being brought up properly and too much screen time - how does that explain that incels are nearly all white males?

I am black from the waist down. And proud "

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By *uiet_69Man over a year ago

Near

"The theory that social media and children not being brought up properly and too much screen time - how does that explain that incels are nearly all white males?

I am black from the waist down. And proud

Ok maybe not but one can dream

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The theory that social media and children not being brought up properly and too much screen time - how does that explain that incels are nearly all white males?

I am black from the waist down. And proud "

Have a wash.

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By *ackformore100Man over a year ago

Tin town

"The theory that social media and children not being brought up properly and too much screen time - how does that explain that incels are nearly all white males?"

I haven't seen anyone blaming parenting or screen time as exclusively the reason for these peoples values and behaviours.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"That's an interesting perspective. What do you base it on?

The point were trying to make is too much online time for humans is not natural. Social media in itself can also bring out the very worst elements of humanity.

It's just that you stated your opinion as fact - so I thought you have some research to point to? Ok.

I do find it fascinating that girl children also spend time online and yet...

Lots of girls have significant issues too. No idea if or how much they may be linked with isolation or not. But I'm sure by now some wise people have some studies. "

The most significant issue for girls at present IMO is that huge numbers of them want to be boys....

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The theory that social media and children not being brought up properly and too much screen time - how does that explain that incels are nearly all white males?

I haven't seen anyone blaming parenting or screen time as exclusively the reason for these peoples values and behaviours. "

Both parenting and too much screen time have been mentioned in the thread?

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By *uiet_69Man over a year ago

Near

"The theory that social media and children not being brought up properly and too much screen time - how does that explain that incels are nearly all white males?

I am black from the waist down. And proud

Have a wash.

Why you cheeky lady!

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By *otMe66Man over a year ago

Terra Firma

"Media massively misrepresents uncles as some sort of 'sub-culture' or 'movement'. It is neither.

Take an interest in your own children. Leave them alone with a screen and fail to nurture them yourself and they'll turn to things online.

That's an interesting perspective. What do you base it on?

Common sense? Encouraging your kid to be isolated in front of a screen is not encouraging or rewarding their social skills. Let alone the stuff they have access to. "

I agree with this.

The young males, or males of any age who find it hard to interact in real life, will find online even harder, it is full of over inflated egos showing off, making them feel even less capable of fitting in.

They can now easily find others like themselves online, and then it begins to get darker, they are now competing to prove who is suffering the most. It is at this point, the person suffering the most becomes a leader of those not suffering as much, so the cult and ideology will get more and more extreme as they out do each other in the suffering stakes.

Recognising early on, a young man is isolating themselves, awkward in front of others all of the time or not fitting in with anything, is so important for the development of their lives.

Unfortunately, it can be easier to allow them to skulk away in their bedrooms unchallenged for a quiet life.. Tough nut to crack but with some guidance and routines that encourage social skills, it could be prevented, in my opinion.

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By *hoirCouple over a year ago

Clacton/Bury St. Edmunds

"wow was just having a nosey on the sky news page and saw this about the incel movement..

The incel - or 'involuntarily celibate' - movement is an online subculture involving men who feel unable to have sex or find love and express hostility and extreme resentment towards women.

its a shocking read id never heard of it before anyone else read it and what do you think...

im not giving the link as im not sure its allowed its on the sky new page ... sent a shiver thru me "

Ah this fake thing. It's a slur used by some to stop dissenting voices. You see major corps and their drones using it to avoid criticism over any current thing.

Happens a lot. The female equaivalent is the Femcel.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Media massively misrepresents uncles as some sort of 'sub-culture' or 'movement'. It is neither.

Take an interest in your own children. Leave them alone with a screen and fail to nurture them yourself and they'll turn to things online.

That's an interesting perspective. What do you base it on?

Common sense? Encouraging your kid to be isolated in front of a screen is not encouraging or rewarding their social skills. Let alone the stuff they have access to.

I agree with this.

Recognising early on, a young man is isolating themselves, awkward in front of others all of the time or not fitting in with anything, is so important for the development of their lives.

Many boys and young men who spend a lot of time online do so because they're neurodivergent. Sometimes interacting online is the only way they can interact. School is a minefield and is like a war zone for them.

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By *ackformore100Man over a year ago

Tin town

"The theory that social media and children not being brought up properly and too much screen time - how does that explain that incels are nearly all white males?

I haven't seen anyone blaming parenting or screen time as exclusively the reason for these peoples values and behaviours.

Both parenting and too much screen time have been mentioned in the thread? "

Yes they have been mentioned. As makes sense. It's a complex issue which probably has very many factors influencing the individuals and possibly different for every individual.

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By *icolerobbieCouple over a year ago

walsall

I’m more concerned about why these young men feel this way. They are not born incels, or misogynistic. They learn them. Maybe through years of rejection and bitterness from women.

I think when you see posts on here from men saying how they write loads of messages and never receive a reply, it’s easy to say chin up, and give advice.

Rejection can be very painful, and some women can be very abrasive when receiving an approach from a man they don’t fancy. This must all mount up in time and before you know it, you have a misogynistic incel.

I’m no expert, but that’s my observation.

It all reminds me of Jim Morrison singing People are strange.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It's just that you stated your opinion as fact - so I thought you have some research to point to? Ok.

I do find it fascinating that girl children also spend time online and yet..."

Yet the media don't report on the many girls and women who are socially awkward. Come on now, must you have some media pushed survey or study to refer to for everything? It's common sense folk who lack social skills will spiral downwards when they withdraw to online, and the article specifically mentions online.

We didn't have issues with online incels when people weren't able to get online. As said, technology and social media has it's positive sides but there is a very dark societal impact too and we don't need some academics or scientists to reiterate what we see with our own eyes.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"The theory that social media and children not being brought up properly and too much screen time - how does that explain that incels are nearly all white males?

I haven't seen anyone blaming parenting or screen time as exclusively the reason for these peoples values and behaviours.

Both parenting and too much screen time have been mentioned in the thread?

Yes they have been mentioned. As makes sense. It's a complex issue which probably has very many factors influencing the individuals and possibly different for every individual. "

Mentioning a possible contributory factor is not blaming.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"wow was just having a nosey on the sky news page and saw this about the incel movement..

The incel - or 'involuntarily celibate' - movement is an online subculture involving men who feel unable to have sex or find love and express hostility and extreme resentment towards women.

its a shocking read id never heard of it before anyone else read it and what do you think...

im not giving the link as im not sure its allowed its on the sky new page ... sent a shiver thru me

Ah this fake thing. It's a slur used by some to stop dissenting voices. You see major corps and their drones using it to avoid criticism over any current thing.

Happens a lot. The female equaivalent is the Femcel.

C "

Femcels don't appear to be violent misandrists so how is it an equivalent movement?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The theory that social media and children not being brought up properly and too much screen time - how does that explain that incels are nearly all white males?

I haven't seen anyone blaming parenting or screen time as exclusively the reason for these peoples values and behaviours.

Both parenting and too much screen time have been mentioned in the thread?

Yes they have been mentioned. As makes sense. It's a complex issue which probably has very many factors influencing the individuals and possibly different for every individual.

Mentioning a possible contributory factor is not blaming. "

I didn't use the word blame....

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"It's just that you stated your opinion as fact - so I thought you have some research to point to? Ok.

I do find it fascinating that girl children also spend time online and yet...

Groups of women or 'femcels' are easily found online.

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By *otMe66Man over a year ago

Terra Firma

"Media massively misrepresents uncles as some sort of 'sub-culture' or 'movement'. It is neither.

Take an interest in your own children. Leave them alone with a screen and fail to nurture them yourself and they'll turn to things online.

That's an interesting perspective. What do you base it on?

Common sense? Encouraging your kid to be isolated in front of a screen is not encouraging or rewarding their social skills. Let alone the stuff they have access to.

I agree with this.

Recognising early on, a young man is isolating themselves, awkward in front of others all of the time or not fitting in with anything, is so important for the development of their lives.

I agree, it isn't easy when everywhere they turn they see competition and they can't interact or form friendships.

But knowing that, should they be allowed to be online unsupervised? Isn't that just the place they can be whoever they want to be, find people who they can relate too and if unchecked could lead them to what this thread is about?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The theory that social media and children not being brought up properly and too much screen time - how does that explain that incels are nearly all white males?

I haven't seen anyone blaming parenting or screen time as exclusively the reason for these peoples values and behaviours.

Both parenting and too much screen time have been mentioned in the thread?

Yes they have been mentioned. As makes sense. It's a complex issue which probably has very many factors influencing the individuals and possibly different for every individual. "

I didnt say they were being blamed for incels. But my point is that those factors apply to non-white and non-male people yet it's white men who are overwhelming incels.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"The theory that social media and children not being brought up properly and too much screen time - how does that explain that incels are nearly all white males?

I haven't seen anyone blaming parenting or screen time as exclusively the reason for these peoples values and behaviours.

Both parenting and too much screen time have been mentioned in the thread?

Yes they have been mentioned. As makes sense. It's a complex issue which probably has very many factors influencing the individuals and possibly different for every individual.

Mentioning a possible contributory factor is not blaming.

I didn't use the word blame...."

No you didn't. I didn't say you did. I didn't quote you.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It's just that you stated your opinion as fact - so I thought you have some research to point to? Ok.

I do find it fascinating that girl children also spend time online and yet...

I personally don't rely on my own opinions - they're biased. I like evidence and yes I do think that academics and scientists when they look at the data - findings are often very different from "common sense".

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By *lym4realCouple over a year ago

plymouth

Amazing to think that the largest "Incel" movement that has quite literally billions of followers the world over hasn't been mentioned at all "Organised Religion" where young males are quite literally taught that the "Female Gender" is inferior and the weakest sex and who should be fully and utterly subservient to all males and the male has every right to tell the female what she be able to do with her body and even how to dress or what to wear ( Iran etc etc or even Roe Vs Wade etc etc ) and of course young females are taught that they are at best 2nd class to any and all males ?? and add in the whole theory that all the evils of the world are put down to females leading men astray ?? and you get quite a toxic brew and a very furtile breeding ground for ...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Media massively misrepresents uncles as some sort of 'sub-culture' or 'movement'. It is neither.

Take an interest in your own children. Leave them alone with a screen and fail to nurture them yourself and they'll turn to things online.

That's an interesting perspective. What do you base it on?

Common sense? Encouraging your kid to be isolated in front of a screen is not encouraging or rewarding their social skills. Let alone the stuff they have access to.

I agree with this.

Recognising early on, a young man is isolating themselves, awkward in front of others all of the time or not fitting in with anything, is so important for the development of their lives.

I agree, it isn't easy when everywhere they turn they see competition and they can't interact or form friendships.

The advice for parents used to be to control and block content online for kids - thus the software for this purpose. The advice now (which I do agree with as a parent) is that there's only so long you can do that. Educating kids, talking to them about the issues, teaching them to question what they find online are all more valuable with teens (schools and parents alike). I find that joining in with my kids means they're more likely to be open with me - so I've played Minecraft (argh) watched YouTube videos, share playlists with my kids. And I hope it means they will be more open with me. I think so.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

" Amazing to think that the largest "Incel" movement that has quite literally billions of followers the world over hasn't been mentioned at all "Organised Religion" where young males are quite literally taught that the "Female Gender" is inferior and the weakest sex and who should be fully and utterly subservient to all males and the male has every right to tell the female what she be able to do with her body and even how to dress or what to wear ( Iran etc etc or even Roe Vs Wade etc etc ) and of course young females are taught that they are at best 2nd class to any and all males ?? and add in the whole theory that all the evils of the world are put down to females leading men astray ?? and you get quite a toxic brew and a very furtile breeding ground for ...

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By *ackformore100Man over a year ago

Tin town

"The theory that social media and children not being brought up properly and too much screen time - how does that explain that incels are nearly all white males?

I haven't seen anyone blaming parenting or screen time as exclusively the reason for these peoples values and behaviours.

Both parenting and too much screen time have been mentioned in the thread?

Yes they have been mentioned. As makes sense. It's a complex issue which probably has very many factors influencing the individuals and possibly different for every individual.

I didnt say they were being blamed for incels. But my point is that those factors apply to non-white and non-male people yet it's white men who are overwhelming incels. "

I don't know the racial make up of misogynists and incels. But struggle to believe its a whites only issue

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

It did cross my mind but I thought one ideology was enough to be getting on with today.

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By *ackformore100Man over a year ago

Tin town

"Media massively misrepresents uncles as some sort of 'sub-culture' or 'movement'. It is neither.

Take an interest in your own children. Leave them alone with a screen and fail to nurture them yourself and they'll turn to things online.

That's an interesting perspective. What do you base it on?

Common sense? Encouraging your kid to be isolated in front of a screen is not encouraging or rewarding their social skills. Let alone the stuff they have access to.

I agree with this.

Recognising early on, a young man is isolating themselves, awkward in front of others all of the time or not fitting in with anything, is so important for the development of their lives.

I agree, it isn't easy when everywhere they turn they see competition and they can't interact or form friendships.

Which sounds eminently sensible and I think it was being alluded to above.

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By *otMe66Man over a year ago

Terra Firma

"Media massively misrepresents uncles as some sort of 'sub-culture' or 'movement'. It is neither.

Take an interest in your own children. Leave them alone with a screen and fail to nurture them yourself and they'll turn to things online.

That's an interesting perspective. What do you base it on?

Common sense? Encouraging your kid to be isolated in front of a screen is not encouraging or rewarding their social skills. Let alone the stuff they have access to.

I agree with this.

Recognising early on, a young man is isolating themselves, awkward in front of others all of the time or not fitting in with anything, is so important for the development of their lives.

I agree, it isn't easy when everywhere they turn they see competition and they can't interact or form friendships.

Exactly, making time to understand and interact with children is precious and forms life lessons, respect and a relationships that can grow.

I see parents give toddlers in high chairs, iPads in restaurants to keep them quiet. Is tech being used to keep children quiet and out of the way, a good thing or can it lead to breakdown in building the relationships you have built with your children?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It's a bottomless pit though. It crosses lines from the well publicised white virgin male to inter-race and religion too. Mass murder-suicides are reported on a regular basis and they're not only white virgin males.

The human race needs to audit itself on a massive scale.

Hate and the appetite for supremacy feeds these pervasive agendas worldwide.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Out of interest, where are we getting the numbers that most incels are white?

I’ve never seen any info on that, do we have stats to back it up?

And not just shooting stats, earlier in the thread people mentioned there being millions of incels, do we have a census on them?

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