FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Can you reason with the unreasonable?
Can you reason with the unreasonable?
Jump to: Newest in thread
 |
By *hagTonight OP Man
over a year ago
From the land of haribos. |
I watched a fun video about it and I agree with it, it was an artist who talked about what art is and how subjective it is and how everyone have got a view of what it is and if it is art, like some things one sees in an art gallery.
He said that his father learnt him a saying that you cant really reason with the unreasonable and if one comes in that situation, talk about the weather instead. I found that fun lol.
How true would you say that that statement is that you cant argue with the unreasonable? It doesnt just go to art, but also other topics, agendas and politics  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
You can but it's not worth the effort.
Use cognitive empathy, understand their position and why they think what they do. From there you can guide someone to a new veiw point.
It's easier to accept that people have different opinions though and you don't need to agree with them. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"You can only argue with someone who is willing to be wrong, otherwise you’re just pissing in the ocean. You too, have to be prepared to be wrong.. Unless you are female of course "
FIFY   |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
Willingness to be wrong is a great quality - shows intelligence, humility and openmindedness. Similarly, I find the truly intelligent are very comfortable acknowledging the limits of their knowledge. "The more you learn, the less you know" is so true. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
There are many versions of this quote. My favourite version is that of Thomas Paine which goes...... 'To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.'
Reasoning with the unreasonable goes both ways and is not only applicable to people. A person capable of reasoning makes an ass of themselves in asking the waves to retreat. I guess anyone continually attempting to reason with someone either incapable of or unwilling to follow reason is a total Canutist.
Everyone should attempt reasoning with others but they also need that practised skill of realising when they are pissing in the wind. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"You can only argue with someone who is willing to be wrong, otherwise you’re just pissing in the ocean. You too, have to be prepared to be wrong"
I disagree to an extent. I prefer dialogue where neither is wrong but at a stage in understanding. The discussion is an opportunity to accept and reject what we hear and adjust our understanding of self and each other. It does not mean anyone was 'wrong'. I have a strong aversion to the word 'wrong'.... |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
Simple answer is no.
As an F1 and Lewis Hamilton fan, I've yet to find anyone in the Max Vestappen fan club to have an open and honest discussion regarding the events of Abu Dhabi 2021.
They are as thick as 2 planks. They are a different breed of human being   |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"You can only argue with someone who is willing to be wrong, otherwise you’re just pissing in the ocean. You too, have to be prepared to be wrong
I disagree to an extent. I prefer dialogue where neither is wrong but at a stage in understanding. The discussion is an opportunity to accept and reject what we hear and adjust our understanding of self and each other. It does not mean anyone was 'wrong'. I have a strong aversion to the word 'wrong'...."
I’m with you, it’s not that one of you has to be wrong, just prepared to be, should the discussion go that way. Willingness to lose is part of winning. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
No you can't. I have tried umpteen times with my very unreasonable mother but now I've officially given up. It's all very well making the effort with others but when you get nothing back, it's time to step away for your own sake. It's a waste of energy x |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"No you can't. I have tried umpteen times with my very unreasonable mother but now I've officially given up. It's all very well making the effort with others but when you get nothing back, it's time to step away for your own sake. It's a waste of energy x "
Oh dear. Sorry to hear that. I know a woman who thinks like that of her mother but her mother just won't do what the daughter wants and is branded unreasonable......... |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
It really isn't worth wasting your time trying to debate or reason with stubborn, emotionally immature people, or people who think they're always right and believe that apologising is a sign of weakness.
Leave them to their own stupidity and walk away from it all. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"There are many versions of this quote. My favourite version is that of Thomas Paine which goes...... 'To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.'
Reasoning with the unreasonable goes both ways and is not only applicable to people. A person capable of reasoning makes an ass of themselves in asking the waves to retreat. I guess anyone continually attempting to reason with someone either incapable of or unwilling to follow reason is a total Canutist.
Everyone should attempt reasoning with others but they also need that practised skill of realising when they are pissing in the wind. "
That's my fave word of today so far - "total canutist"!!!  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"It really isn't worth wasting your time trying to debate or reason with stubborn, emotionally immature people, or people who think they're always right and believe that apologising is a sign of weakness.
Leave them to their own stupidity and walk away from it all."
It is never a waste of time. How else do they experience and learn?
Often , immaturity and stubbornness are closer than we think. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
unreasonable
/?n'ri?z n?bl/
Learn to pronounce
adjective
not guided by or based on good sense.
It's all a matter of perspective though, no? What is good and what is sensible.
You are the only one who has lived your experiences so the only one with your unique perspective.
Seems a bit unrealistic to expect others to have the same or close to same opinions or understanding.
I think it comes back to 'live and let live'. Accept others don't have to agree and don't get stuck expecting to over ride their free will to agree or not. Doesn't really matter how ridiculous you consider their position in an argument or debate. Have to just agree to disagree and walk away. You being in the right doesn't automatically make them in the wrong.
There's very few things in life that aren't open to an alternative understanding or meaning. Lots of differing things can all be true at the same time.
Sure 'Statistics' is a prime example. The same data can be presented to support completely opposite arguments depending on how it's edited |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"It really isn't worth wasting your time trying to debate or reason with stubborn, emotionally immature people, or people who think they're always right and believe that apologising is a sign of weakness.
Leave them to their own stupidity and walk away from it all.
It is never a waste of time. How else do they experience and learn?
Often , immaturity and stubbornness are closer than we think. "
From experience, I grew up in a family of stubborn, obstinate people where the word "sorry" didn't exist (including my own mother). It would be nice to belileve that maybe some people can be educated to learn about their wrongs, but my experience has proved that it's near impossible. Once they have a mindset, there's no changing it.
And that's why I have nothing to do with most of my family. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ensualMan
over a year ago
Sutton |
The version of the concept I know is" Never wrestle with a pig, you get dirty and the pig enjoys it".
It really depends on why the debate is occurring. If it is social then there is no point. I have a close friend who is an "anti- vaxxer" we don't discuss the issues. If I was a medical professional then I would have to debate the relevant points.
There is also the issue of the creeping return of religion trying (and succeeding) in the name of God to control our sexual/ personal choices.
They are wrong, and in civil society they need to be debated into the ground, if ignored they will steam roller their agenda into force. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"There are many versions of this quote. My favourite version is that of Thomas Paine which goes...... 'To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.'
Reasoning with the unreasonable goes both ways and is not only applicable to people. A person capable of reasoning makes an ass of themselves in asking the waves to retreat. I guess anyone continually attempting to reason with someone either incapable of or unwilling to follow reason is a total Canutist.
Everyone should attempt reasoning with others but they also need that practised skill of realising when they are pissing in the wind.
That's my fave word of today so far - "total canutist"!!! "
Ah but the example that you provide here is a classic case of reason and unreason. From what I've read Canute pulled that stunt in order to prove that he was in fact not a god and that no man was, thereby actually displaying his wisdom not stoopidity...
But you are right the world's full of proper argumentative Canutes  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *hagTonight OP Man
over a year ago
From the land of haribos. |
"You can but it's not worth the effort.
Use cognitive empathy, understand their position and why they think what they do. From there you can guide someone to a new veiw point.
It's easier to accept that people have different opinions though and you don't need to agree with them. "
Yes, it is as well that |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"It really isn't worth wasting your time trying to debate or reason with stubborn, emotionally immature people, or people who think they're always right and believe that apologising is a sign of weakness.
Leave them to their own stupidity and walk away from it all.
It is never a waste of time. How else do they experience and learn?
Often , immaturity and stubbornness are closer than we think.
From experience, I grew up in a family of stubborn, obstinate people where the word "sorry" didn't exist (including my own mother). It would be nice to belileve that maybe some people can be educated to learn about their wrongs, but my experience has proved that it's near impossible. Once they have a mindset, there's no changing it.
And that's why I have nothing to do with most of my family."
yes.... I guess apples can walk. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *hagTonight OP Man
over a year ago
From the land of haribos. |
"There are many versions of this quote. My favourite version is that of Thomas Paine which goes...... 'To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.'
Reasoning with the unreasonable goes both ways and is not only applicable to people. A person capable of reasoning makes an ass of themselves in asking the waves to retreat. I guess anyone continually attempting to reason with someone either incapable of or unwilling to follow reason is a total Canutist.
Everyone should attempt reasoning with others but they also need that practised skill of realising when they are pissing in the wind. "
Yes, there are many versions of it and that is a good one too |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I love talking about art and argue the fact that you can have an different view towards it. It’s subjective and it’s that what I like.
I also like it when we agree.
I don’t like unreasonable people, they're just being cunts. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *hagTonight OP Man
over a year ago
From the land of haribos. |
"I love talking about art and argue the fact that you can have an different view towards it. It’s subjective and it’s that what I like.
I also like it when we agree.
I don’t like unreasonable people, they're just being cunts. "
Yes, same here, it is subjective and one can have different view towards art as well |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I watched a fun video about it and I agree with it, it was an artist who talked about what art is and how subjective it is and how everyone have got a view of what it is and if it is art, like some things one sees in an art gallery.
He said that his father learnt him a saying that you cant really reason with the unreasonable and if one comes in that situation, talk about the weather instead. I found that fun lol.
How true would you say that that statement is that you cant argue with the unreasonable? It doesnt just go to art, but also other topics, agendas and politics "
Sounds unreasonable to me |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
In all seriousness, I cannot stand arguing. I hate it and will always choose to walk away instead of getting heated and disagreeable.
So, if I think someone is being unreasonable, I’ll just say “fine” and leave them to it.
Not the reason I do it, but I do get some minor satisfaction from the fact they’re probably frustrated by my lack of engagement. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *hagTonight OP Man
over a year ago
From the land of haribos. |
"In all seriousness, I cannot stand arguing. I hate it and will always choose to walk away instead of getting heated and disagreeable.
So, if I think someone is being unreasonable, I’ll just say “fine” and leave them to it.
Not the reason I do it, but I do get some minor satisfaction from the fact they’re probably frustrated by my lack of engagement."
Yes, walking away is also a good thing to do as well |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *hagTonight OP Man
over a year ago
From the land of haribos. |
"You can explain yourself till your blue in the face but they can only listen to their level of understanding
If they don’t match you’re best just walking away, wasted energy otherwise "
Yes, that is also a good point and yes, sometimes walking away is the best thing to do in that situation |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *a LunaWoman
over a year ago
South Wales |
As I’ve gotten older, and I’m on great anxiety medication, I can’t really be arsed with pointless arguments anymore. I browse Twitter and Insta and some of the things you see folk getting in a tizz about….I just don’t have the energy or the inclination for it.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"There are many versions of this quote. My favourite version is that of Thomas Paine which goes...... 'To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.'
Reasoning with the unreasonable goes both ways and is not only applicable to people. A person capable of reasoning makes an ass of themselves in asking the waves to retreat. I guess anyone continually attempting to reason with someone either incapable of or unwilling to follow reason is a total Canutist.
Everyone should attempt reasoning with others but they also need that practised skill of realising when they are pissing in the wind. "
I know when I’m pissing in the wind, my trouser leg gets all wet. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *rHotNottsMan
over a year ago
Dubai & Nottingham |
People rarely change their views by being challenged, argued with etc , it’s least effective way to influence especially if they are stubborn, but also because the arguer, you have the completely wrong motives.
I like Art. I think skill and craft have no place in art . I mean, mastery is impressive right? Moving your fingers super fast up & down a fretboard takes a list of practice and repetition, a bit like mopping a floor really well , but that’s not art.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *hagTonight OP Man
over a year ago
From the land of haribos. |
"People rarely change their views by being challenged, argued with etc , it’s least effective way to influence especially if they are stubborn, but also because the arguer, you have the completely wrong motives.
I like Art. I think skill and craft have no place in art . I mean, mastery is impressive right? Moving your fingers super fast up & down a fretboard takes a list of practice and repetition, a bit like mopping a floor really well , but that’s not art.
"
Yes, you are also right there, that people dont change their view, that is good that you also like art and yes, mastery is impressive as well. I also like rembrandt and how how he painted portraits |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I watched a fun video about it and I agree with it, it was an artist who talked about what art is and how subjective it is and how everyone have got a view of what it is and if it is art, like some things one sees in an art gallery.
He said that his father learnt him a saying that you cant really reason with the unreasonable and if one comes in that situation, talk about the weather instead. I found that fun lol.
How true would you say that that statement is that you cant argue with the unreasonable? It doesnt just go to art, but also other topics, agendas and politics "
I absolutely disagree  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
» Add a new message to this topic
