FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Why are men in crisis?

Why are men in crisis?

By *iman2100 OP Man over a year ago

Glasgow

I watched a piece from the latest Bill Maher show on YouTube. It is very thought provoking and worth seeing. One guy said "50 men and 50 women on Tinder. 46 women will pic the same 4 guys which leaves 46 guys persuing 4 women" Sounds a bit like Fab. Have a look.

https://youtu.be/TAgUHyXr7_Y

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Simply put, most men aren’t peng enough.

Can’t relate though

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

It's a very incomplete idea.

There is no saying who the peng men picked.

The peng men will only pick peng women .....

( i just learned the word peng from Steve - I think it means buff or sex god. Hope so )

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Interesting theory and might be some truth to it. Except I fucking hate Bill Maher so feel I need to disagree with him on principle

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By *hil most chillMan over a year ago

South East & Europe

Isn't Bill Maher just one of those Tucker Carlson types who says anything for views/reactions, regardless of accuracy?

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By *dwalu2Couple over a year ago

Bristol

Your first mistake was watching Bill Maher.

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By *annaBeStrongMan over a year ago

wokingham

"I watched a piece from the latest Bill Maher show on YouTube. It is very thought provoking and worth seeing. One guy said "50 men and 50 women on Tinder. 46 women will pic the same 4 guys which leaves 46 guys persuing 4 women" Sounds a bit like Fab. Have a look.

https://youtu.be/TAgUHyXr7_Y

80/20 rule in action. 20% of guys get 80% of the action. Social media + apps are fuelling it

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By *ohn KanakaMan over a year ago

Not all that North of North London

https://youtu.be/TAgUHyXr7_Y

I lasted 20 seconds before thinking this might be just a little misogynistic and a little bit incel after the video appeared to blame women with degrees for not dating men without them...

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By *hrista BellendWoman over a year ago

surrounded by twinkly lights

"It's a very incomplete idea.

There is no saying who the peng men picked.

The peng men will only pick peng women .....

( i just learned the word peng from Steve - I think it means buff or sex god. Hope so )

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It's a very incomplete idea.

There is no saying who the peng men picked.

The peng men will only pick peng women .....

( i just learned the word peng from Steve - I think it means buff or sex god. Hope so )

Well if I’m describing myself that way then what do you think?

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By *annaBeStrongMan over a year ago

wokingham

https://youtu.be/TAgUHyXr7_Y

I lasted 20 seconds before thinking this might be just a little misogynistic and a little bit incel after the video appeared to blame women with degrees for not dating men without them..."

Maybe watch further then if that’s what you got from the first 20 seconds

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By *heVonMatterhornsCouple over a year ago

Lincoln

So what we can establish is that whether it's Fab or Tinder, the percentage of men who actually put effort into their profile is probably about the same

LvM

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By *o new WinksMan over a year ago

BSE

https://youtu.be/TAgUHyXr7_Y

I lasted 20 seconds before thinking this might be just a little misogynistic and a little bit incel after the video appeared to blame women with degrees for not dating men without them..."

Not watched the vid...however, it is a well researched fact that women are attracted across social strata ...and upwards.

They do not date downwards.

Men tend to date irrelevant of social status.

Prob more on boob size.

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By *annaBeStrongMan over a year ago

wokingham

https://youtu.be/TAgUHyXr7_Y

I lasted 20 seconds before thinking this might be just a little misogynistic and a little bit incel after the video appeared to blame women with degrees for not dating men without them...

Not watched the vid...however, it is a well researched fact that women are attracted across social strata ...and upwards.

They do not date downwards.

Men tend to date irrelevant of social status.

Prob more on boob size.

Well the video didn’t blame anyone (I’m only a few mins in)

It’s discussing a variety of mens issues and it’s very telling how someone watches 20 seconds, labels it incel and turns it off

And we Wonder why there is an issue

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By *inaTitzTV/TS over a year ago

Titz Towers, North Notts

Prob more on boob size.

I was summoned?

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By *ad NannaWoman over a year ago

East London

We're judging men on what happens on Tinder?

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By *o new WinksMan over a year ago

BSE

Prob more on boob size.

I was summoned?

Not directly...but now that you're here

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

My view on this is that while women have diverse taste in men. In a fab/similar nsa social/play, many want their fantasy partner and generally that man is tall, ruggedly muscled and inked. I've got no chance!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Don’t judge men or women by what happens on dating apps. 90% of it is based solely on looks. In the real world it’s completely different.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Why are we being judged at all?

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By *iman2100 OP Man over a year ago

Glasgow

"We're judging men on what happens on Tinder?"

No, I think mating using social media rather than meeting in person. So not Tinder specific.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Hmmm, well all I got from it was -

Young men may become violent due to not getting laid

Women shouldn't be bothered if a bloke is bright or not

Women shouldn't be so 'fussy' about looks

Women should give more guys a 'chance'

Uh huh

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By *dwalu2Couple over a year ago

Bristol

Most men are not in crisis, nor would they regard themselves as such.

There is a small proportion of the male population who have chronic issues with self-esteem, and naturally they end up seeking learning and solutions. Unfortunately they often end up receiving them from simple-minded hucksters like Jordan Peterson. People like this have parlayed their own chronic self-esteem issues into the lucrative business of feeding and exploiting irrational feelings of victimisation.

How do we help those men? Primary education in self-confidence, gender equality, relationships and critical thinking would help enormously, but the reality is society has little interest in fixing complex social problems, and they will probably be left to find their own way, detrimentally.

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By *iman2100 OP Man over a year ago

Glasgow

"Don’t judge men or women by what happens on dating apps. 90% of it is based solely on looks. In the real world it’s completely different."

True but sadly an awful lot only seek a partner on social media and that is the point. He also said something like 30% of under 30 men did not have sex in the last year; and that is not good on many levels.

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By *naswingdressWoman over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Hmmm, well all I got from it was -

Young men may become violent due to not getting laid

Women shouldn't be bothered if a bloke is bright or not

Women shouldn't be so 'fussy' about looks

Women should give more guys a 'chance'

Uh huh

So men struggle because women exercise free choice.

Well. Maybe men should work on themselves.

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By *ose-tinted GlassesMan over a year ago

Glasgow / London

Men aren’t ‘in crisis’ because of Tinder. Or Fab.

The world has been built on unjust patriarchal systems for so fucking long that a little fairness upsets fragile male egos and assumptions.

Things are getting better for us all, with glimpses of a fairer society, but some men don’t see it that way. They look at women having a little more agency and see it as taking something away from men, instead of giving something to women they should always have had.

Men shouldn’t be ‘pursuing’ women on Tinder at all, they should be hoping to find a match that works. And if 46 out of 50 women are all attracted to the same four men, maybe that’s because our society promotes a single standard of beauty and success instead of celebrating all types? Maybe that’s not womens’ fault, y’know?

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By *ose-tinted GlassesMan over a year ago

Glasgow / London

"… something like 30% of under 30 men did not have sex in the last year; and that is not good on many levels. "

Repeat after me:

Men do not have the right to sex.

Men do not have the right to women’s attention.

Men do not have the right to womens’ bodies.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Don’t judge men or women by what happens on dating apps. 90% of it is based solely on looks. In the real world it’s completely different.

How proactive are this 30%? I haven’t ever used a dating app and I don’t think I ever would. My personality takes a bit of getting used to so it’s much easier to talk in person.

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By *naswingdressWoman over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"… something like 30% of under 30 men did not have sex in the last year; and that is not good on many levels.

Repeat after me:

Men do not have the right to sex.

Men do not have the right to women’s attention.

Men do not have the right to womens’ bodies."

For generations women have been told to contort themselves to be good enough to snag a man. To survive.

Now we can survive on our own - maybe men should take the same advice they've been dishing out. Smile, love.

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By *annaBeStrongMan over a year ago

wokingham

I took the video to just be asking the question, why are so many men choosing to completely check out of education, careers and relationships

The guy seems focused on the recent changes in building relationships / dating with things like the increased use of social media / apps. But I’d imagine it’s only part of a complex issue

No where in the video did I get a sense they were suggesting that men are owed anything or that women need to change or that it’s their fault

Just simple looking at what’s happening.

And it’s a shame we can’t do that without it instantly turning into something nasty

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By *iman2100 OP Man over a year ago

Glasgow

So how many actually watched it? How many simply responded to others who had not watched it?

For me the lesson is; it is important to form real world relationships rather than tap away at a phone screen. Nothing about incels, men being "entitled", women being the problem, and any other excuse.

So single lonely men on Fab. Put your phone away and go out. Actually talk to people with a vagina. Who knows, they may actually swipe right in person!

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By *elaninMaverickWoman over a year ago

near Putney Heath

https://youtu.be/TAgUHyXr7_Y

Boys/Men have been in crisis since I was a teenager in secondary school in the 90s. In my twenties I went to uni and the men there seemed content enough. Then back into the real world and pressures of marriage and children and careers hit.

Honestly I got nothing but don't live your life according to society. Be a Maverick.

Society says I'm not a "preference" being black, immigrant, plus sized and low income. If I had listened to society for most of my life I would have had zero enjoyment over the last 20 years which has not been the case at all.

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By *estLondonDeepMan over a year ago

London

I lasted 20 seconds before thinking this might be just a little misogynistic and a little bit incel after the video appeared to blame women with degrees for not dating men without them..."

What was "a little misogynistic" about the video?

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By *estLondonDeepMan over a year ago

London

"So how many actually watched it? How many simply responded to others who had not watched it?

So single lonely men on Fab. Put your phone away and go out. Actually talk to people with a vagina. Who knows, they may actually swipe right in person!

I suspect most didn't actually watch the video.

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By *ad NannaWoman over a year ago

East London

"My view on this is that while women have diverse taste in men. In a fab/similar nsa social/play, many want their fantasy partner and generally that man is tall, ruggedly muscled and inked. I've got no chance!

Yes you do.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I watched the whole video. I was a little put off to see Matt Walsh sat there as he's a very right wing anti-feminism person. But he didn't say anything so..

Is this part of a longer conversation as it raised some important things such as why are young American men checking out of college, why are they becoming more violent. Didn't mention suicide stats which is a somewhat obvious sign of a group in crisis. The stats for UK men under 30 are awful.

Some good points raised but also little insight into why they're important eg "men don't marry as much". Is that a sign that they're in crisis or is it that people marry later, marriage is less popular.

I really really dislike this from Bill Maher about mass shootings "usually some dude in Buffalo had somebody swiped left on him too much". FFS. Actually much of what Bill Maher said was questionable. Men "losing out to women" in college. "Women with degrees not marrying men who don't have degrees". Not very nuanced is it?

I also find the mention of men not having sex problematic. Especially combined with the 90/10 mention. There's an implication that women aren't giving men what they need to be less "lonely and lost". No info given on whether women under 30 are having sex for example. Not a very nuanced or thoughtful take on the issue overall.

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By *he_massangerMan over a year ago

Stornoway

https://youtu.be/TAgUHyXr7_Y

"
Gawd, I had no idea I was in crisis until I read this thread!

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By *agic.MMan over a year ago

Orpington

https://youtu.be/TAgUHyXr7_Y

Moral of the story...be one of those 4 guys

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Technology is the devil. Makes people lazy in several aspects of life. It’s problematic for men and for women.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

https://youtu.be/TAgUHyXr7_Y

I lasted 20 seconds before thinking this might be just a little misogynistic and a little bit incel after the video appeared to blame women with degrees for not dating men without them..."

Men who only last 20 seconds may struggle tbh

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 10/09/22 15:00:16]

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By *estLondonDeepMan over a year ago

London

Moral of the story...be one of those 4 guys

There are quite a few YouTube and social media channels focusing men on becoming 10% (or high value) males. This isn't a new thing.

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By *urga2076Woman over a year ago

London

https://youtu.be/TAgUHyXr7_Y

Sounds like we mimic gorilla formations then?

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By *agic.MMan over a year ago

Orpington

https://youtu.be/TAgUHyXr7_Y

Sounds like we mimic gorilla formations then?"

You and me ain't nothing but mammals...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

https://youtu.be/TAgUHyXr7_Y

Sounds like we mimic gorilla formations then?

You and me ain't nothing but mammals...

So let's do it like they do on the Discovery channel.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Im in no crisis

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I’m hot, I got no crisis.

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By *alandNitaCouple over a year ago

Scunthorpe

I'm not sure that the Internet is a fair representation of reality. People are often not what they claim to be, and in real life there is a much more equal split of genders and sexualities compared to mainstream internet dating/hookup sites that are 80% straight blokes competing over women overwhelmed with offers... (sounds a bit like FAB)

Cal

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I'm not sure that the Internet is a fair representation of reality. People are often not what they claim to be, and in real life there is a much more equal split of genders and sexualities compared to mainstream internet dating/hookup sites that are 80% straight blokes competing over women overwhelmed with offers... (sounds a bit like FAB)

Cal"

Do you know anyone who meets people offline for dating or sex? I don't.

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By *alandNitaCouple over a year ago

Scunthorpe

Cal

Do you know anyone who meets people offline for dating or sex? I don't. "

Having played in bands for 35 years, I can confirm people (or at least musicians) are getting laid in analogue.

Cal

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By *lexV16Man over a year ago

Welling

https://youtu.be/TAgUHyXr7_Y

Gawd, I had no idea I was in crisis until I read this thread!"

I am short, not gym ripped and not inked. Have no idea I am in crisis till read this. Will watch the video to be sure I am in crisis lol.

Jokes aside. There is a place where there are more women then men. All looking for something, swiping right, wink and smile to all sort of guys. The place is called real world. Go offline and get your match.

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By *amnaughtybutniceWoman over a year ago

tf1

"Men aren’t ‘in crisis’ because of Tinder. Or Fab.

The world has been built on unjust patriarchal systems for so fucking long that a little fairness upsets fragile male egos and assumptions.

This. Absolutely.

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By *annaBeStrongMan over a year ago

wokingham

"Men aren’t ‘in crisis’ because of Tinder. Or Fab.

The world has been built on unjust patriarchal systems for so fucking long that a little fairness upsets fragile male egos and assumptions.

This. Absolutely. "

We have clear statistics showing lots of younger men are choosing to check out of many aspects of life from education to career and relationships.

Suicide is still a huge and growing problem

The above comment feels to me like it’s just brushing it off. “They’re just jealous that women are finally getting equality”

It’s an attempt to undermine the issues and victim shame the people experiencing them.

Whatever your thoughts are on why it’s happening, it is happening.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Cal

Do you know anyone who meets people offline for dating or sex? I don't.

Having played in bands for 35 years, I can confirm people (or at least musicians) are getting laid in analogue.

Cal"

Ah so that's what I need to do to meet men IRL - go to gigs!

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By *inky_couple2020Couple over a year ago

North West

Cal

Do you know anyone who meets people offline for dating or sex? I don't.

Having played in bands for 35 years, I can confirm people (or at least musicians) are getting laid in analogue.

Cal

Ah so that's what I need to do to meet men IRL - go to gigs! "

Go BACKSTAGE at gigs

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Cal

Do you know anyone who meets people offline for dating or sex? I don't.

Having played in bands for 35 years, I can confirm people (or at least musicians) are getting laid in analogue.

Cal

Ah so that's what I need to do to meet men IRL - go to gigs!

Go BACKSTAGE at gigs

Don't think anyone needs a 51 yo groupie

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By *inky_couple2020Couple over a year ago

North West

Cal

Do you know anyone who meets people offline for dating or sex? I don't.

Having played in bands for 35 years, I can confirm people (or at least musicians) are getting laid in analogue.

Cal

Ah so that's what I need to do to meet men IRL - go to gigs!

Go BACKSTAGE at gigs

Don't think anyone needs a 51 yo groupie

The Rolling Stones?!

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By *ananaman41Man over a year ago

Dublin

"Your first mistake was watching Bill Maher."

I would have thought people in here would love bill maher, the old liberal that he is.

I have warmed to him in recent times however as he's turning his back on the woke craziness thats thats gradually shifting liberalism to the far left, soni applaud him for that.

As for this piece, it was very interesting and had a lot of truth to it i think. Its an inevitable consequence of the remote world we are living in now, be it remote dating remote working etc. People are losing the ability and opportunity to communicate in person and young men are suffering from this the most.

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By *ananaman41Man over a year ago

Dublin

"Don’t judge men or women by what happens on dating apps. 90% of it is based solely on looks. In the real world it’s completely different."

Yes but the problem is that this is now becoming the real world. The real world as it used to be, is now online

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

https://youtu.be/TAgUHyXr7_Y

"
one guy says....

Did he quote a study ?

Tinder is also a one hit shot. It doesn't show what happens to the 40 odd women who the 4 men don't follow up with. (do all guys follow up on all tinder matches ?)

Later on is the 30pc haven't had sex stat.

But in the manosphere the other stat is that only 50pc of males passed on their genetic material. (They can do cool stuff with mitochondria irrc to help work this out).

So it feels nowt new has changed.

Our society has always seen a few men at the top. And a lot at the bottom. Hence patriarchal. Rather than a word that better implies all men.

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By *ananaman41Man over a year ago

Dublin

"Hmmm, well all I got from it was -

Young men may become violent due to not getting laid

Women shouldn't be bothered if a bloke is bright or not

Women shouldn't be so 'fussy' about looks

Women should give more guys a 'chance'

Uh huh

So men struggle because women exercise free choice.

Well. Maybe men should work on themselves."

The inevitable defensive response

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I swiped right 50 times instead of reading the article I'll return with findings

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

All I read from this was, get to the gym woody and don’t worry about we’ll thought out profiles or messengers. Thanks for the top tip op

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By *ananaman41Man over a year ago

Dublin

"… something like 30% of under 30 men did not have sex in the last year; and that is not good on many levels.

Repeat after me:

Men do not have the right to sex.

Men do not have the right to women’s attention.

Men do not have the right to womens’ bodies."

Repeat after me:

Nobody is saying that, so you can pack your strawman away for today ok

Regardless of the reasons behind it, its not good for humanity in general so rather than white knighting yourself silly, maybe just stand back for a second and engage in a constructive manner

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By *ananaman41Man over a year ago

Dublin

"… something like 30% of under 30 men did not have sex in the last year; and that is not good on many levels.

Repeat after me:

Men do not have the right to sex.

Men do not have the right to women’s attention.

Men do not have the right to womens’ bodies.

For generations women have been told to contort themselves to be good enough to snag a man. To survive.

Now we can survive on our own - maybe men should take the same advice they've been dishing out. Smile, love."

You do realise we're all in this together dont you? We're all part of humanity so why are you being so divisive about it? If there are problems then it is in all our interests to help solve them

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Cal

Do you know anyone who meets people offline for dating or sex? I don't.

Having played in bands for 35 years, I can confirm people (or at least musicians) are getting laid in analogue.

Cal

Ah so that's what I need to do to meet men IRL - go to gigs!

Go BACKSTAGE at gigs

Don't think anyone needs a 51 yo groupie

The Rolling Stones?!

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By *naswingdressWoman over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"… something like 30% of under 30 men did not have sex in the last year; and that is not good on many levels.

Repeat after me:

Men do not have the right to sex.

Men do not have the right to women’s attention.

Men do not have the right to womens’ bodies.

For generations women have been told to contort themselves to be good enough to snag a man. To survive.

Now we can survive on our own - maybe men should take the same advice they've been dishing out. Smile, love.

You do realise we're all in this together dont you? We're all part of humanity so why are you being so divisive about it? If there are problems then it is in all our interests to help solve them"

I am helping. Take the advice you've been dishing out for generations

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By *ananaman41Man over a year ago

Dublin

"… something like 30% of under 30 men did not have sex in the last year; and that is not good on many levels.

Repeat after me:

Men do not have the right to sex.

Men do not have the right to women’s attention.

Men do not have the right to womens’ bodies.

For generations women have been told to contort themselves to be good enough to snag a man. To survive.

Now we can survive on our own - maybe men should take the same advice they've been dishing out. Smile, love.

You do realise we're all in this together dont you? We're all part of humanity so why are you being so divisive about it? If there are problems then it is in all our interests to help solve them

I am helping. Take the advice you've been dishing out for generations

What advice? Whos been dishing it out?

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By *ambertMan over a year ago

Cheltenham

Bill maher is a terrible human and I wouldn't take what he says at face value

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By *naswingdressWoman over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"… something like 30% of under 30 men did not have sex in the last year; and that is not good on many levels.

Repeat after me:

Men do not have the right to sex.

Men do not have the right to women’s attention.

Men do not have the right to womens’ bodies.

For generations women have been told to contort themselves to be good enough to snag a man. To survive.

Now we can survive on our own - maybe men should take the same advice they've been dishing out. Smile, love.

You do realise we're all in this together dont you? We're all part of humanity so why are you being so divisive about it? If there are problems then it is in all our interests to help solve them

I am helping. Take the advice you've been dishing out for generations

What advice? Whos been dishing it out? "

"If you're not getting the relationships you want, work on yourself. Smile, be more pleasant, be more desirable, be more pretty, be clever but not too clever" etc

It's pretty common. You is, of course, general, and is not aimed at you in particular.

There you go. Helping.

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By *naswingdressWoman over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Bill maher is a terrible human and I wouldn't take what he says at face value

Pretty much

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Bill maher is a terrible human and I wouldn't take what he says at face value

Pretty much

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By *annaBeStrongMan over a year ago

wokingham

"… something like 30% of under 30 men did not have sex in the last year; and that is not good on many levels.

Repeat after me:

Men do not have the right to sex.

Men do not have the right to women’s attention.

Men do not have the right to womens’ bodies.

For generations women have been told to contort themselves to be good enough to snag a man. To survive.

Now we can survive on our own - maybe men should take the same advice they've been dishing out. Smile, love.

You do realise we're all in this together dont you? We're all part of humanity so why are you being so divisive about it? If there are problems then it is in all our interests to help solve them

I am helping. Take the advice you've been dishing out for generations

What advice? Whos been dishing it out?

"If you're not getting the relationships you want, work on yourself. Smile, be more pleasant, be more desirable, be more pretty, be clever but not too clever" etc

It's pretty common. You is, of course, general, and is not aimed at you in particular.

There you go. Helping. "

And to be fair, this is sound advice

It applies to everyone. Men and women.

If your not getting what you want, either accept it or get better

But it still doesn’t solve the entire issue. But it is good advice

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Men aren’t ‘in crisis’ because of Tinder. Or Fab.

The world has been built on unjust patriarchal systems for so fucking long that a little fairness upsets fragile male egos and assumptions.

This. Absolutely.

We have clear statistics showing lots of younger men are choosing to check out of many aspects of life from education to career and relationships.

Suicide is still a huge and growing problem

The above comment feels to me like it’s just brushing it off. “They’re just jealous that women are finally getting equality”

It’s an attempt to undermine the issues and victim shame the people experiencing them.

Whatever your thoughts are on why it’s happening, it is happening."

Perhaps the comment you're replying to is referring to those in the Manosphere - the "some men" who do view equality and women in the ways described? There is certainly evidence on Fab of those views of women.

Outside of that group, yes I agree that there is a problem for young men that we must acknowledge. All of us. I'm a mother of young men. I'm deeply concerned.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *annaBeStrongMan over a year ago

wokingham

"Men aren’t ‘in crisis’ because of Tinder. Or Fab.

The world has been built on unjust patriarchal systems for so fucking long that a little fairness upsets fragile male egos and assumptions.

This. Absolutely.

We have clear statistics showing lots of younger men are choosing to check out of many aspects of life from education to career and relationships.

Suicide is still a huge and growing problem

The above comment feels to me like it’s just brushing it off. “They’re just jealous that women are finally getting equality”

It’s an attempt to undermine the issues and victim shame the people experiencing them.

Whatever your thoughts are on why it’s happening, it is happening.

Outside of that group, yes I agree that there is a problem for young men that we must acknowledge. All of us. I'm a mother of young men. I'm deeply concerned. "

Well those guys can do one. And I’m sure they’re a minority

I’m Concerned for the entire generation. In multiple ways. I think men checking out is just the start of a larger problem

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ananaman41Man over a year ago

Dublin

"… something like 30% of under 30 men did not have sex in the last year; and that is not good on many levels.

Repeat after me:

Men do not have the right to sex.

Men do not have the right to women’s attention.

Men do not have the right to womens’ bodies.

For generations women have been told to contort themselves to be good enough to snag a man. To survive.

Now we can survive on our own - maybe men should take the same advice they've been dishing out. Smile, love.

You do realise we're all in this together dont you? We're all part of humanity so why are you being so divisive about it? If there are problems then it is in all our interests to help solve them

I am helping. Take the advice you've been dishing out for generations

What advice? Whos been dishing it out?

"If you're not getting the relationships you want, work on yourself. Smile, be more pleasant, be more desirable, be more pretty, be clever but not too clever" etc

It's pretty common. You is, of course, general, and is not aimed at you in particular.

There you go. Helping.

And to be fair, this is sound advice

It applies to everyone. Men and women.

If your not getting what you want, either accept it or get better

But it still doesn’t solve the entire issue. But it is good advice "

Oh absolutely, and its exactly what Jordan peterson, for example, would say. This wasnt she said initially though, rather her first suggestion was a rather condescending 'smile, love'.

If, by and large, the same few men are having sex with all the women, that benefits absolutely nobody in the long run. Even the few men who are having the sex, as they will be unable to form long lasting meaningful relationships as a result

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *naswingdressWoman over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"… something like 30% of under 30 men did not have sex in the last year; and that is not good on many levels.

Repeat after me:

Men do not have the right to sex.

Men do not have the right to women’s attention.

Men do not have the right to womens’ bodies.

For generations women have been told to contort themselves to be good enough to snag a man. To survive.

Now we can survive on our own - maybe men should take the same advice they've been dishing out. Smile, love.

You do realise we're all in this together dont you? We're all part of humanity so why are you being so divisive about it? If there are problems then it is in all our interests to help solve them

I am helping. Take the advice you've been dishing out for generations

What advice? Whos been dishing it out?

"If you're not getting the relationships you want, work on yourself. Smile, be more pleasant, be more desirable, be more pretty, be clever but not too clever" etc

It's pretty common. You is, of course, general, and is not aimed at you in particular.

There you go. Helping.

And to be fair, this is sound advice

It applies to everyone. Men and women.

If your not getting what you want, either accept it or get better

But it still doesn’t solve the entire issue. But it is good advice "

For the specific issue of men not attracting women (which is what that segment is about), I'm not sure what else there is. Women have free agency and more choice than ever.

I agree there are broader problems, but in terms of Tinder etc - work on yourself. (You is again general)

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *hetalkingstoveMan over a year ago

London

Maybe part of the problem for young men is growing up in a world where they're still expected to be bread winners, but can't afford to buy a house like someone could forty or even twenty years ago?

Perhaps we could look at the political and economic reasons behind male unhappiness rather than focusing on what women might be doing wrong...

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ananaman41Man over a year ago

Dublin

"Men aren’t ‘in crisis’ because of Tinder. Or Fab.

The world has been built on unjust patriarchal systems for so fucking long that a little fairness upsets fragile male egos and assumptions.

This. Absolutely.

We have clear statistics showing lots of younger men are choosing to check out of many aspects of life from education to career and relationships.

Suicide is still a huge and growing problem

The above comment feels to me like it’s just brushing it off. “They’re just jealous that women are finally getting equality”

It’s an attempt to undermine the issues and victim shame the people experiencing them.

Whatever your thoughts are on why it’s happening, it is happening.

Outside of that group, yes I agree that there is a problem for young men that we must acknowledge. All of us. I'm a mother of young men. I'm deeply concerned.

Well those guys can do one. And I’m sure they’re a minority

I’m Concerned for the entire generation. In multiple ways. I think men checking out is just the start of a larger problem "

And a massive contributory factor going forward i believe will be remote working. Young men need to be out every day, facing people, communicating in person, pushing themselves, exposing themselves (not literally). I see it in my own workplace, young guys not developing at all, becoming little more than a post office, passing work along rather than engaging and pushing themselves

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *annaBeStrongMan over a year ago

wokingham

"… something like 30% of under 30 men did not have sex in the last year; and that is not good on many levels.

Repeat after me:

Men do not have the right to sex.

Men do not have the right to women’s attention.

Men do not have the right to womens’ bodies.

For generations women have been told to contort themselves to be good enough to snag a man. To survive.

Now we can survive on our own - maybe men should take the same advice they've been dishing out. Smile, love.

You do realise we're all in this together dont you? We're all part of humanity so why are you being so divisive about it? If there are problems then it is in all our interests to help solve them

I am helping. Take the advice you've been dishing out for generations

What advice? Whos been dishing it out?

"If you're not getting the relationships you want, work on yourself. Smile, be more pleasant, be more desirable, be more pretty, be clever but not too clever" etc

It's pretty common. You is, of course, general, and is not aimed at you in particular.

There you go. Helping.

And to be fair, this is sound advice

It applies to everyone. Men and women.

If your not getting what you want, either accept it or get better

But it still doesn’t solve the entire issue. But it is good advice

For the specific issue of men not attracting women (which is what that segment is about), I'm not sure what else there is. Women have free agency and more choice than ever.

I agree there are broader problems, but in terms of Tinder etc - work on yourself. (You is again general)"

I think that issue is going to effect the women just as bad as the men. It just takes the women a longer to feel it

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *naswingdressWoman over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"… something like 30% of under 30 men did not have sex in the last year; and that is not good on many levels.

Repeat after me:

Men do not have the right to sex.

Men do not have the right to women’s attention.

Men do not have the right to womens’ bodies.

For generations women have been told to contort themselves to be good enough to snag a man. To survive.

Now we can survive on our own - maybe men should take the same advice they've been dishing out. Smile, love.

You do realise we're all in this together dont you? We're all part of humanity so why are you being so divisive about it? If there are problems then it is in all our interests to help solve them

I am helping. Take the advice you've been dishing out for generations

What advice? Whos been dishing it out?

"If you're not getting the relationships you want, work on yourself. Smile, be more pleasant, be more desirable, be more pretty, be clever but not too clever" etc

It's pretty common. You is, of course, general, and is not aimed at you in particular.

There you go. Helping.

And to be fair, this is sound advice

It applies to everyone. Men and women.

If your not getting what you want, either accept it or get better

But it still doesn’t solve the entire issue. But it is good advice

Oh absolutely, and its exactly what Jordan peterson, for example, would say. This wasnt she said initially though, rather her first suggestion was a rather condescending 'smile, love'.

Smile, love, is the echo of the advice. It is often condescending and unsolicited.

What are we supposed to do, have pity sex or even pity relationships? (Not a fucking chance)

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *naswingdressWoman over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"… something like 30% of under 30 men did not have sex in the last year; and that is not good on many levels.

Repeat after me:

Men do not have the right to sex.

Men do not have the right to women’s attention.

Men do not have the right to womens’ bodies.

For generations women have been told to contort themselves to be good enough to snag a man. To survive.

Now we can survive on our own - maybe men should take the same advice they've been dishing out. Smile, love.

You do realise we're all in this together dont you? We're all part of humanity so why are you being so divisive about it? If there are problems then it is in all our interests to help solve them

I am helping. Take the advice you've been dishing out for generations

What advice? Whos been dishing it out?

"If you're not getting the relationships you want, work on yourself. Smile, be more pleasant, be more desirable, be more pretty, be clever but not too clever" etc

It's pretty common. You is, of course, general, and is not aimed at you in particular.

There you go. Helping.

And to be fair, this is sound advice

It applies to everyone. Men and women.

If your not getting what you want, either accept it or get better

But it still doesn’t solve the entire issue. But it is good advice

For the specific issue of men not attracting women (which is what that segment is about), I'm not sure what else there is. Women have free agency and more choice than ever.

I agree there are broader problems, but in terms of Tinder etc - work on yourself. (You is again general)

I think that issue is going to effect the women just as bad as the men. It just takes the women a longer to feel it "

So what do you propose?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *annaBeStrongMan over a year ago

wokingham

"… something like 30% of under 30 men did not have sex in the last year; and that is not good on many levels.

Repeat after me:

Men do not have the right to sex.

Men do not have the right to women’s attention.

Men do not have the right to womens’ bodies.

For generations women have been told to contort themselves to be good enough to snag a man. To survive.

Now we can survive on our own - maybe men should take the same advice they've been dishing out. Smile, love.

You do realise we're all in this together dont you? We're all part of humanity so why are you being so divisive about it? If there are problems then it is in all our interests to help solve them

I am helping. Take the advice you've been dishing out for generations

What advice? Whos been dishing it out?

"If you're not getting the relationships you want, work on yourself. Smile, be more pleasant, be more desirable, be more pretty, be clever but not too clever" etc

It's pretty common. You is, of course, general, and is not aimed at you in particular.

There you go. Helping.

And to be fair, this is sound advice

It applies to everyone. Men and women.

If your not getting what you want, either accept it or get better

But it still doesn’t solve the entire issue. But it is good advice

Oh absolutely, and its exactly what Jordan peterson, for example, would say. This wasnt she said initially though, rather her first suggestion was a rather condescending 'smile, love'.

Smile, love, is the echo of the advice. It is often condescending and unsolicited.

What are we supposed to do, have pity sex or even pity relationships? (Not a fucking chance)"

No one’s even suggesting that. Calm down

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ananaman41Man over a year ago

Dublin

"… something like 30% of under 30 men did not have sex in the last year; and that is not good on many levels.

Repeat after me:

Men do not have the right to sex.

Men do not have the right to women’s attention.

Men do not have the right to womens’ bodies.

For generations women have been told to contort themselves to be good enough to snag a man. To survive.

Now we can survive on our own - maybe men should take the same advice they've been dishing out. Smile, love.

You do realise we're all in this together dont you? We're all part of humanity so why are you being so divisive about it? If there are problems then it is in all our interests to help solve them

I am helping. Take the advice you've been dishing out for generations

What advice? Whos been dishing it out?

"If you're not getting the relationships you want, work on yourself. Smile, be more pleasant, be more desirable, be more pretty, be clever but not too clever" etc

It's pretty common. You is, of course, general, and is not aimed at you in particular.

There you go. Helping.

And to be fair, this is sound advice

It applies to everyone. Men and women.

If your not getting what you want, either accept it or get better

But it still doesn’t solve the entire issue. But it is good advice

For the specific issue of men not attracting women (which is what that segment is about), I'm not sure what else there is. Women have free agency and more choice than ever.

I agree there are broader problems, but in terms of Tinder etc - work on yourself. (You is again general)"

Is the 'more choice' thing really beneficial to women though? Theyll all end up picking the same men in the end.

Choice is on paper a wonderful thing, but a natural follow on from it then is restlessness, the 'grass is greener' syndrome. Then what do we have, soaring divorce rates, single parent homes, dysfuntional kids. And the carousel goes on...

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *annaBeStrongMan over a year ago

wokingham

"… something like 30% of under 30 men did not have sex in the last year; and that is not good on many levels.

Repeat after me:

Men do not have the right to sex.

Men do not have the right to women’s attention.

Men do not have the right to womens’ bodies.

For generations women have been told to contort themselves to be good enough to snag a man. To survive.

Now we can survive on our own - maybe men should take the same advice they've been dishing out. Smile, love.

You do realise we're all in this together dont you? We're all part of humanity so why are you being so divisive about it? If there are problems then it is in all our interests to help solve them

I am helping. Take the advice you've been dishing out for generations

What advice? Whos been dishing it out?

"If you're not getting the relationships you want, work on yourself. Smile, be more pleasant, be more desirable, be more pretty, be clever but not too clever" etc

It's pretty common. You is, of course, general, and is not aimed at you in particular.

There you go. Helping.

And to be fair, this is sound advice

It applies to everyone. Men and women.

If your not getting what you want, either accept it or get better

But it still doesn’t solve the entire issue. But it is good advice

For the specific issue of men not attracting women (which is what that segment is about), I'm not sure what else there is. Women have free agency and more choice than ever.

I agree there are broader problems, but in terms of Tinder etc - work on yourself. (You is again general)

I think that issue is going to effect the women just as bad as the men. It just takes the women a longer to feel it

So what do you propose?"

I propose nothing. We can’t force behaviour.

I think we are heading 100mph at a walk we can’t see. And it’s fuelled by a sudden expansion in technology like social media / apps etc

(And many other issues, but this seems to be the thread topic)

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *inky_couple2020Couple over a year ago

North West

"… something like 30% of under 30 men did not have sex in the last year; and that is not good on many levels.

Repeat after me:

Men do not have the right to sex.

Men do not have the right to women’s attention.

Men do not have the right to womens’ bodies.

For generations women have been told to contort themselves to be good enough to snag a man. To survive.

Now we can survive on our own - maybe men should take the same advice they've been dishing out. Smile, love.

You do realise we're all in this together dont you? We're all part of humanity so why are you being so divisive about it? If there are problems then it is in all our interests to help solve them

I am helping. Take the advice you've been dishing out for generations

What advice? Whos been dishing it out?

"If you're not getting the relationships you want, work on yourself. Smile, be more pleasant, be more desirable, be more pretty, be clever but not too clever" etc

It's pretty common. You is, of course, general, and is not aimed at you in particular.

There you go. Helping.

And to be fair, this is sound advice

It applies to everyone. Men and women.

If your not getting what you want, either accept it or get better

But it still doesn’t solve the entire issue. But it is good advice

Oh absolutely, and its exactly what Jordan peterson, for example, would say. This wasnt she said initially though, rather her first suggestion was a rather condescending 'smile, love'.

Women get told to "smile love, it'll never happen" etc all the damn time. In public, by random men. It's not nice, is it?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *naswingdressWoman over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"… something like 30% of under 30 men did not have sex in the last year; and that is not good on many levels.

Repeat after me:

Men do not have the right to sex.

Men do not have the right to women’s attention.

Men do not have the right to womens’ bodies.

For generations women have been told to contort themselves to be good enough to snag a man. To survive.

Now we can survive on our own - maybe men should take the same advice they've been dishing out. Smile, love.

You do realise we're all in this together dont you? We're all part of humanity so why are you being so divisive about it? If there are problems then it is in all our interests to help solve them

I am helping. Take the advice you've been dishing out for generations

What advice? Whos been dishing it out?

"If you're not getting the relationships you want, work on yourself. Smile, be more pleasant, be more desirable, be more pretty, be clever but not too clever" etc

It's pretty common. You is, of course, general, and is not aimed at you in particular.

There you go. Helping.

And to be fair, this is sound advice

It applies to everyone. Men and women.

If your not getting what you want, either accept it or get better

But it still doesn’t solve the entire issue. But it is good advice

Oh absolutely, and its exactly what Jordan peterson, for example, would say. This wasnt she said initially though, rather her first suggestion was a rather condescending 'smile, love'.

Women get told to "smile love, it'll never happen" etc all the damn time. In public, by random men. It's not nice, is it?"

I've even been told - on my way to buy painkillers no less - that I'll never get a husband with that scowl on my face. By a stranger.

I had a migraine and this person can shove his husband up his arse.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *annaBeStrongMan over a year ago

wokingham

Didn’t take long to turn into a woman’s crisis thread

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ananaman41Man over a year ago

Dublin

"… something like 30% of under 30 men did not have sex in the last year; and that is not good on many levels.

Repeat after me:

Men do not have the right to sex.

Men do not have the right to women’s attention.

Men do not have the right to womens’ bodies.

For generations women have been told to contort themselves to be good enough to snag a man. To survive.

Now we can survive on our own - maybe men should take the same advice they've been dishing out. Smile, love.

You do realise we're all in this together dont you? We're all part of humanity so why are you being so divisive about it? If there are problems then it is in all our interests to help solve them

I am helping. Take the advice you've been dishing out for generations

What advice? Whos been dishing it out?

"If you're not getting the relationships you want, work on yourself. Smile, be more pleasant, be more desirable, be more pretty, be clever but not too clever" etc

It's pretty common. You is, of course, general, and is not aimed at you in particular.

There you go. Helping.

And to be fair, this is sound advice

It applies to everyone. Men and women.

If your not getting what you want, either accept it or get better

But it still doesn’t solve the entire issue. But it is good advice

Oh absolutely, and its exactly what Jordan peterson, for example, would say. This wasnt she said initially though, rather her first suggestion was a rather condescending 'smile, love'.

Women get told to "smile love, it'll never happen" etc all the damn time. In public, by random men. It's not nice, is it?"

I have no idea what relevance that is to the issue at hand to be honest. Unless youre the type of person that believes 2 wrongs therefore make a right.

Are you more interested in exploring a constructive solution or just looking to get even with some men who were bad to you?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *naswingdressWoman over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"… something like 30% of under 30 men did not have sex in the last year; and that is not good on many levels.

Repeat after me:

Men do not have the right to sex.

Men do not have the right to women’s attention.

Men do not have the right to womens’ bodies.

For generations women have been told to contort themselves to be good enough to snag a man. To survive.

Now we can survive on our own - maybe men should take the same advice they've been dishing out. Smile, love.

You do realise we're all in this together dont you? We're all part of humanity so why are you being so divisive about it? If there are problems then it is in all our interests to help solve them

I am helping. Take the advice you've been dishing out for generations

What advice? Whos been dishing it out?

"If you're not getting the relationships you want, work on yourself. Smile, be more pleasant, be more desirable, be more pretty, be clever but not too clever" etc

It's pretty common. You is, of course, general, and is not aimed at you in particular.

There you go. Helping.

And to be fair, this is sound advice

It applies to everyone. Men and women.

If your not getting what you want, either accept it or get better

But it still doesn’t solve the entire issue. But it is good advice

Oh absolutely, and its exactly what Jordan peterson, for example, would say. This wasnt she said initially though, rather her first suggestion was a rather condescending 'smile, love'.

Women get told to "smile love, it'll never happen" etc all the damn time. In public, by random men. It's not nice, is it?

I have no idea what relevance that is to the issue at hand to be honest. Unless youre the type of person that believes 2 wrongs therefore make a right.

Are you more interested in exploring a constructive solution or just looking to get even with some men who were bad to you? "

I'm offering the advice I've had all my life. You're welcome.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *inky_couple2020Couple over a year ago

North West

"… something like 30% of under 30 men did not have sex in the last year; and that is not good on many levels.

Repeat after me:

Men do not have the right to sex.

Men do not have the right to women’s attention.

Men do not have the right to womens’ bodies.

For generations women have been told to contort themselves to be good enough to snag a man. To survive.

Now we can survive on our own - maybe men should take the same advice they've been dishing out. Smile, love.

You do realise we're all in this together dont you? We're all part of humanity so why are you being so divisive about it? If there are problems then it is in all our interests to help solve them

I am helping. Take the advice you've been dishing out for generations

What advice? Whos been dishing it out?

"If you're not getting the relationships you want, work on yourself. Smile, be more pleasant, be more desirable, be more pretty, be clever but not too clever" etc

It's pretty common. You is, of course, general, and is not aimed at you in particular.

There you go. Helping.

And to be fair, this is sound advice

It applies to everyone. Men and women.

If your not getting what you want, either accept it or get better

But it still doesn’t solve the entire issue. But it is good advice

Oh absolutely, and its exactly what Jordan peterson, for example, would say. This wasnt she said initially though, rather her first suggestion was a rather condescending 'smile, love'.

Women get told to "smile love, it'll never happen" etc all the damn time. In public, by random men. It's not nice, is it?

I have no idea what relevance that is to the issue at hand to be honest. Unless youre the type of person that believes 2 wrongs therefore make a right.

Are you more interested in exploring a constructive solution or just looking to get even with some men who were bad to you? "

Just replying to the way the thread unfolded. You described Swing's comment as condescending. I'm saying women hear that stuff all the time, from strangers in the street/bus queue etc.

I've not evaluated it, merely added it into the conversation.

But yes, it's condescending but many men (maybe the ones struggling to find a relationship/sex??) seem to think it's acceptable. It's very widespread so it's not just the odd "bad apple".

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *annaBeStrongMan over a year ago

wokingham

Anyways, now they’ve got it out their system

I think a good start is looking at how people are communicating. It’s too much phone, not enough in person. WFH doesn’t help this. How can we expect men to get into relationships if they lack social skills

And that’s just a start. It’s such a deep topic. Fatherless homes don’t help. This recent attack on young men doesn’t help. The recession we are about to go into won’t help. It’s tough

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ananaman41Man over a year ago

Dublin

"… something like 30% of under 30 men did not have sex in the last year; and that is not good on many levels.

Repeat after me:

Men do not have the right to sex.

Men do not have the right to women’s attention.

Men do not have the right to womens’ bodies.

For generations women have been told to contort themselves to be good enough to snag a man. To survive.

Now we can survive on our own - maybe men should take the same advice they've been dishing out. Smile, love.

You do realise we're all in this together dont you? We're all part of humanity so why are you being so divisive about it? If there are problems then it is in all our interests to help solve them

I am helping. Take the advice you've been dishing out for generations

What advice? Whos been dishing it out?

"If you're not getting the relationships you want, work on yourself. Smile, be more pleasant, be more desirable, be more pretty, be clever but not too clever" etc

It's pretty common. You is, of course, general, and is not aimed at you in particular.

There you go. Helping.

And to be fair, this is sound advice

It applies to everyone. Men and women.

If your not getting what you want, either accept it or get better

But it still doesn’t solve the entire issue. But it is good advice

Oh absolutely, and its exactly what Jordan peterson, for example, would say. This wasnt she said initially though, rather her first suggestion was a rather condescending 'smile, love'.

Women get told to "smile love, it'll never happen" etc all the damn time. In public, by random men. It's not nice, is it?

I have no idea what relevance that is to the issue at hand to be honest. Unless youre the type of person that believes 2 wrongs therefore make a right.

Are you more interested in exploring a constructive solution or just looking to get even with some men who were bad to you?

I'm offering the advice I've had all my life. You're welcome."

Ok but you acknowledge that this 'advise' was irritating and unhelpful yes?

So why would you now be offering such advise?