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On the trans related threads....
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If it's very personal, maybe proof read it. Not worth getting any shit over it.  | |||
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"Hmmmm,ok let me re read and then post, just so I can take out anything too personal. Before I post anything, this is me shouting : THIS IS ME JUST POSTING A PERSONAL VIEW AND NOT INTENDED TO START ANY SHOUTING, ARGUMENTS OR ANGRY STUFF!!! IM TRYING TO HELP FOSTER MORE CONSTRUCTIVE CONVERSATIONS, APOLOGIES IF IT DOESNT WORK OUT THAT WAY!!! I realise the irony in me shouting that by the way, just making it clear and will ask mods to delete if it all kicks off! X" can you speak up m'dear? | |||
"Hmmmm,ok let me re read and then post, just so I can take out anything too personal. Before I post anything, this is me shouting : THIS IS ME JUST POSTING A PERSONAL VIEW AND NOT INTENDED TO START ANY SHOUTING, ARGUMENTS OR ANGRY STUFF!!! IM TRYING TO HELP FOSTER MORE CONSTRUCTIVE CONVERSATIONS, APOLOGIES IF IT DOESNT WORK OUT THAT WAY!!! I realise the irony in me shouting that by the way, just making it clear and will ask mods to delete if it all kicks off! Xcan you speak up m'dear? "
I think you need to shout louder for those in the cheap seats | |||
"Hmmmm,ok let me re read and then post, just so I can take out anything too personal. Before I post anything, this is me shouting : THIS IS ME JUST POSTING A PERSONAL VIEW AND NOT INTENDED TO START ANY SHOUTING, ARGUMENTS OR ANGRY STUFF!!! IM TRYING TO HELP FOSTER MORE CONSTRUCTIVE CONVERSATIONS, APOLOGIES IF IT DOESNT WORK OUT THAT WAY!!! I realise the irony in me shouting that by the way, just making it clear and will ask mods to delete if it all kicks off! Xcan you speak up m'dear?
I think you need to shout louder for those in the cheap seats"I'm cheap... not deaf. Oh... Wait... I'm deaf too  | |||
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"Personally I think trans people post some of the most biased stuff because they are mostly going to be very pro-trans leaning But I’d still read it" This goes for most groups no? | |||
"I'd like to think it would help but unfortunately ignorant people are ignorant people If they were interested in having their eyes opened to opposing opinions of their own they would post and act the way that they do when the LGBTQIA subject comes up x" Does all that apply for both sides of the debate? | |||
x
BA = breast augmentation?
SRS = sex r? surgery?
About people in ladies loos.... some people may think that trans women are the 'risky issue'. But I think most women think that it's *Men* who are the risky issue. Men who are not trans but say they are to be creepy and pervy and get into women's spaces. ("Women's spaces" includes trans women in those spaces.) | |||
"I'd like to think it would help but unfortunately ignorant people are ignorant people If they were interested in having their eyes opened to opposing opinions of their own they would post and act the way that they do when the LGBTQIA subject comes up x Does all that apply for both sides of the debate?" Show me 1 example of someone being an ally towards the community and showing ignorance. Also trans rights are a 'debate' they deserve the same basic human rights as everyone else. | |||
"Thank you Sarah. x
BA = breast augmentation?
SRS = sex r? surgery?
About people in ladies loos.... some people may think that trans women are the 'risky issue'. But I think most women think that it's *Men* who are the risky issue. Men who are not trans but say they are to be creepy and pervy and get into women's spaces. ("Women's spaces" includes trans women in those spaces.) "Thanks, hopefully helping at least some better informed convos on here, even if it was a mammoth read! So yep, BA - breast augmentation, on hormones you get to about the same or a cup size below your close female family, so mother/sister, etc. Given most transwomens frames are bigger than their relatives, BA is common so everything is in proportion. SRS, or GRS - sex/gender reassignment surgery....basically the bottom op. I agree, most women I know are worried that pervy guys will pretend to be trans to get into the ladies, but it's a big thing for a pervy guy to go through to try and get into those spaces. If a guy is that pervy, he's probably well beyond caring about how he gets access to those spaces in the first place! The problem is that a lot of people make the jump from pervy guys trying to get access to those spaces directly to transwomen, which just isn't the case for many of the reasons I've mentioned above. I suppose I hope my post has gone some way in helping to explain why that jump from the fear of pervy guys directly to transwomen simply causes us a lot of hate, which really isn't justified. X | |||
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"Thank you Sarah. x
BA = breast augmentation?
SRS = sex r? surgery?
About people in ladies loos.... some people may think that trans women are the 'risky issue'. But I think most women think that it's *Men* who are the risky issue. Men who are not trans but say they are to be creepy and pervy and get into women's spaces. ("Women's spaces" includes trans women in those spaces.)
Thanks, hopefully helping at least some better informed convos on here, even if it was a mammoth read!
So yep, BA - breast augmentation, on hormones you get to about the same or a cup size below your close female family, so mother/sister, etc. Given most transwomens frames are bigger than their relatives, BA is common so everything is in proportion.
SRS, or GRS - sex/gender reassignment surgery....basically the bottom op.
I agree, most women I know are worried that pervy guys will pretend to be trans to get into the ladies, *** but it's a big thing for a pervy guy to go through to try and get into those spaces. If a guy is that pervy, he's probably well beyond caring about how he gets access to those spaces in the first place! ***
The problem is that a lot of people make the jump from pervy guys trying to get access to those spaces directly to transwomen, which just isn't the case for many of the reasons I've mentioned above.
I suppose I hope my post has gone some way in helping to explain why that jump from the fear of pervy guys directly to transwomen simply causes us a lot of hate, which really isn't justified. X"*** Fair point! 
I am sure there is a group of men somewhere who start these conspiracy theories. X | |||
"Thank you for posting Sarah - that's a very long and arduous journey you've had to get where you are now. I appreciate your candour and making yourself vulnerable sharing it here. The only thing I have to say about the politics/issues/ideology is that I don't believe trans rights activists have served you well. But that's my POV and may not be yours. Wishing you all the best in your journey "Thanks! I agree that both sides on the extreme ends of the debate have forgotten about the vast majority of is in the middle just trying to get along with our lives in peace and quiet. If my post has helped highlight how the arguing affects people just trying to keep their heads down and live in peace, I'm happy to have helped out. X | |||
"About people in ladies loos.... some people may think that trans women are the 'risky issue'. But I think most women think that it's *Men* who are the risky issue. Men who are not trans but say they are to be creepy and pervy and get into women's spaces. ("Women's spaces" includes trans women in those spaces.) "I agree with you. So when there are Trans women in women only spaces that become "predatory" then deal with the individual pervert. Statistically studies have shown this is very rare. Lesbians in women only spaces that are predatory is more of a nuisance. However Rowling's wish to ban all trans woman from women only spaces is saying ALL trans woman are perverts. That is exclusionary. You can tell well meaning feminists that get behind her, hasn't really given the issue a lot of thought. | |||
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"Thank you Sarah. x
BA = breast augmentation?
SRS = sex r? surgery?
About people in ladies loos.... some people may think that trans women are the 'risky issue'. But I think most women think that it's *Men* who are the risky issue. Men who are not trans but say they are to be creepy and pervy and get into women's spaces. ("Women's spaces" includes trans women in those spaces.) "Growing up I never thought about Trans in the women's loo. I thought about cis-hetero dressed as men doing the R thing. Now as I've grown older and sat in copious mental health groups....A lot of women were m*lested by WOMEN as little girls... My conclusion all adults can be dangerous. My job is to figure out how to avoid the most dangerous ones and defend myself if necessary. That's how I see it not based on sexuality, gender or orientation. Most people are statistically murdered or assaulted by people they can identify. Not a random stranger. Thankfully serial r@pists and serial murderers are rare. | |||
"Hmmm, I've been toying with a post like this, so it might get deleted if I bottle it, but just wanted to give a bit of a personal perspective on the whole trans thing... ..." ° I'm interested in reading it. Please don't bottle it. It's your thread; it's everyone's fora. | |||
"Hmmm, I've been toying with a post like this, so it might get deleted if I bottle it, but just wanted to give a bit of a personal perspective on the whole trans thing, which people seem to get obsessive about and immediately jump to the whole loo/women's safety argument. So a bit about me, I knew I was trans from about age 8/9 and can distinctly remember key events around then pointing to me being so, much to the grief of my parents, my school and family. When I hit my teens I hated puberty, found comfort in cider and the d word (nothing too bad, just usual teenager stuff) to drown it all out. When I hit my early 20s I'd have anxiety and panic attacks when out with friends as it was clearly bubbling away and I couldn't deal with being a guy in any social environment, so became very socially isolated and my mental health went down the loo (pun intended!). Started to get help around age of 23, GD was diagnosed and prescribed hrt. Then family issues meant I had to go back home and be around the family and put them first (parent with cancer needing care) so everything put on hold. Late 20s/30s moved abroad and lived as myself for a few years, but work and life meant a return to the UK and having to find a job in man mode. This didn't end well, my personal and MH spiralled out of control and it all came to a head one September evening, as where it was all heading wasn't pretty. Quite simply, if I hadn't have had that conversation, you wouldn't be reading this. So I came out to everyone and anyone around me, and this was the equivalent of a social nuclear bomb going off in my life. We're talking loss of family, house, friends, etc and the mental health recovery meaning my job went down too. 2 years of therapy massively helped, sorted my mind out and began taking hrt and testosterone blockers, life starting getting better again, my work life got back on track and I'm a happy, productive member of society. I've made new friends, new social circles and life is relatively calm and peaceful. Life isn't perfect, but it's good enough for me. Trust me when I say this, this isn't a pity post all about me - Im 99.99999999% luckier than most other trans people over met, and I would say my experience has been on the more positive side of the experiences I have come across. The best way to describe being trans I can describe is like there's a radio playing in the background of your life. Sometimes it's quiet, sometimes it's louder, but it's always there and you know what it means and the song it's playing. At some points it gets deafening and you try and drown it out with anything and everything available to hand, and more often than not, those distractions are dangerous and self destructive. Then, when everything you normally use to drown I own stops working, it gets deafening to the point you'll do anything to get away from it. But, it's there. It always was, and it always will be, and it will be destructive until you face up to it and start taking positive and healthy action. Fast forward to today - this morning I woke up,took my testosterone blocker and changed the hrt patch as it's a Sunday and I try to keep them Sunday - Wednesday, Wednesday - Sunday. Side effects of both of these means that my sex drive is virtually nil, and "that" doesn't work one bit, and in fact I'm happy with that as I've never, ever liked it. My testosterone levels are very low, and oestrogen levels in the ranges of a woman my age. So for many transwomen on hormones for any period of time (normally around 3 months+), there's simply isn't the sexual drive, urge, or physical, erm, "things" for any of the hypothetical loo situations that get banded around to actually happen. Moving on from that, last week I had an IPL session, which costs around £80 a time and hurts like hell and leaves your skin raw and horrible for about a week. You basically have to hide from the sun for a week and deal with what feels like crappy sunburn until your skin sorts itself out. I've had probably 20 sessions all in, and all paid for by myself. One that note, as I sorted out my MH and my work life became more stable - when I'm in a good place Im actually quite good at what I do, so I can afford to pay for everything privately - just before anyone jumps on the "NHS shouldn't be funding this!" bandwagon. I've probably spent £20k+ on therapy, IPL, psychologists, specialist Doctors, blood tests, etc. And it's not finished, I'm planning on BA and then SRS, so at least another £30k or so to go, as and when funds allow, and then a lifetime of blood tests, hormones, etc. Being trans I know I'm open to more health concerns associated to the medicine I take for life, I know I'm open to statistically more discrimination and violence than the normal person on the street, I know my chances of finding a loving partner are massively reduced. I don't think I look massively like a bloke in a dress and pass relatively well under the radar, but everyday and everytime I leave the house it takes one extra step of guts, just in case you bump into someone who is massively transphobic and gets violence or agressive. Yes, it's tiring. If I go onto any social media and some forums, the amount of bigotry and pure hate can be overwhelming, and yes, it gets tiring. Yet despite all of this, I'm still here, and I'm still trans. So why have I created a post this personal and detailed? First and foremost this isn't a "THIS IS ALL ABOUT ME, ME,ME!!!" post Well, do you think I and many other trans people would have gone through all of the above just to sneak into ladies loos? Really? No, I didn't. I got through it all so I can look at myself and feel comfortable and at peace with who I am, and that is all. When I go to the loo, all I want to do is go for a pee and wash my hands. Now, if you're tempted to say "ah, well I'm not referring to transwomen like you, it's the others who are the dangerous ones" - I've had this before and it reminds me of 80s sitcoms like Some Mother's Do Have Them, where Alf Garnett was clearly being racist towards one of his neighbours, but would always finish it with "but of course I'm not referring to you, it's the other ones I'm on about!". Looking back, those episodes really haven't aged well have they? It's wrong to try and apply one brush against a whole community who go through quite frankly, more often than not a hard and shitty existence just to try and get by....just because of a "what if...." supposition. I genuinely think that in years to come, when the "what if xxxxx happens in a loo" scenarios haven't come to pass, we will look back on those conversations with the same sort of head shaking and "blimey, that was all a bit wrong" feelings we get when watching dodgy sitcoms from the late 70s and early 80s when it came to race relations. Hmmmm, hope that vaguely helps - I'm not one for calling anyone a bigot/terf/arsehole, as I genuinely think that education and common understanding can get through most discussions.....hence me posting the above, in some hope that a bit of understanding might mean healthier discussions next time round. Whenever I've been challenged by someone and sat down and had a good chat with them and explainednwhat it's really like to be trans, they fall into 2 camps. The guys say "well, fair play, I couldn't have dealt with all of that, so crack on, good luck to you, but you still owe me a pint after all that", and the women say "wow, you've gone through all of that to just be who you are, welcome aboard!". There's no middle ground (from what I've found), so I hope and believe that a lot of opinions and views can be better formed simply by sitting down and chatting with someone who is a man/woman, but also happens to be trans. It boggles my mind that so many people can have so staunch and strong views on the trans community, but when you ask them "well how many trans people do you know, how many have you interacted with and how many do you truly understand their journey and life?"......the answer worryingly often comes back, "well none, but.....". I hope this massively long post has helped at least go someway to helping answer some of the views and questions that seem to pop up on here and cause all sorts of arguments. If not, well, let's all just be nice to each other!x " Some of the psychological aspects of your journey I understand. I was always an awkward and sensitive child. I always knew I was different. From the age of 4 I remember having atrocious anxiety. I just pretended or masked it well... Until I got to marriage with an abusive husband and I couldn't pretend any more. At age 32 I was diagnosed with Borderline/Emotionally Unstable Personality Disorder aka Emotional Intensity Disorder aka Emotional Instability Disorder aka Emotional Dysregulation Disorder. At 40, my therapists makes me do an initial assessment questionnaire for Autism Spectrum Disorder and....and I score 9/10. That was the first time anyone thought I might be on the spectrum. So I live day to day. Thinking at least I'm alive...many people who are uncomfortable in their own skin because society forces them into a completely alien construct didn't make it to our age and many don't' die of old age. I don't know if I will have to take medication for my whole life but I will probably have to work a mental health recovery and relapse prevention programme for the rest of my life. Mostly I live in the NOW and I'm too fl*pping honest. Lol! | |||
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"As a fully transitioned girl, I'm the happiest I've ever been but I wouldn't wish being transgender on my worst enemy. These bigoted or maybe uneducated people that think it's a choice really have no idea! Kate xx" So nice to hear your happy! One of my daughters is to have her full surgery yet but is happiest she has been at mo she's 26 and no was not a choice very conflicted and confused growing up! But glad to say a very happy young lady now x | |||
"Hmmm, I've been toying with a post like this, so it might get deleted if I bottle it, but just wanted to give a bit of a personal perspective on the whole trans thing, which people seem to get obsessive about and immediately jump to the whole loo/women's safety argument. So a bit about me, I knew I was trans from about age 8/9 and can distinctly remember key events around then pointing to me being so, much to the grief of my parents, my school and family. When I hit my teens I hated puberty, found comfort in cider and the d word (nothing too bad, just usual teenager stuff) to drown it all out. When I hit my early 20s I'd have anxiety and panic attacks when out with friends as it was clearly bubbling away and I couldn't deal with being a guy in any social environment, so became very socially isolated and my mental health went down the loo (pun intended!). Started to get help around age of 23, GD was diagnosed and prescribed hrt. Then family issues meant I had to go back home and be around the family and put them first (parent with cancer needing care) so everything put on hold. Late 20s/30s moved abroad and lived as myself for a few years, but work and life meant a return to the UK and having to find a job in man mode. This didn't end well, my personal and MH spiralled out of control and it all came to a head one September evening, as where it was all heading wasn't pretty. Quite simply, if I hadn't have had that conversation, you wouldn't be reading this. So I came out to everyone and anyone around me, and this was the equivalent of a social nuclear bomb going off in my life. We're talking loss of family, house, friends, etc and the mental health recovery meaning my job went down too. 2 years of therapy massively helped, sorted my mind out and began taking hrt and testosterone blockers, life starting getting better again, my work life got back on track and I'm a happy, productive member of society. I've made new friends, new social circles and life is relatively calm and peaceful. Life isn't perfect, but it's good enough for me. Trust me when I say this, this isn't a pity post all about me - Im 99.99999999% luckier than most other trans people over met, and I would say my experience has been on the more positive side of the experiences I have come across. The best way to describe being trans I can describe is like there's a radio playing in the background of your life. Sometimes it's quiet, sometimes it's louder, but it's always there and you know what it means and the song it's playing. At some points it gets deafening and you try and drown it out with anything and everything available to hand, and more often than not, those distractions are dangerous and self destructive. Then, when everything you normally use to drown I own stops working, it gets deafening to the point you'll do anything to get away from it. But, it's there. It always was, and it always will be, and it will be destructive until you face up to it and start taking positive and healthy action. Fast forward to today - this morning I woke up,took my testosterone blocker and changed the hrt patch as it's a Sunday and I try to keep them Sunday - Wednesday, Wednesday - Sunday. Side effects of both of these means that my sex drive is virtually nil, and "that" doesn't work one bit, and in fact I'm happy with that as I've never, ever liked it. My testosterone levels are very low, and oestrogen levels in the ranges of a woman my age. So for many transwomen on hormones for any period of time (normally around 3 months+), there's simply isn't the sexual drive, urge, or physical, erm, "things" for any of the hypothetical loo situations that get banded around to actually happen. Moving on from that, last week I had an IPL session, which costs around £80 a time and hurts like hell and leaves your skin raw and horrible for about a week. You basically have to hide from the sun for a week and deal with what feels like crappy sunburn until your skin sorts itself out. I've had probably 20 sessions all in, and all paid for by myself. One that note, as I sorted out my MH and my work life became more stable - when I'm in a good place Im actually quite good at what I do, so I can afford to pay for everything privately - just before anyone jumps on the "NHS shouldn't be funding this!" bandwagon. I've probably spent £20k+ on therapy, IPL, psychologists, specialist Doctors, blood tests, etc. And it's not finished, I'm planning on BA and then SRS, so at least another £30k or so to go, as and when funds allow, and then a lifetime of blood tests, hormones, etc. Being trans I know I'm open to more health concerns associated to the medicine I take for life, I know I'm open to statistically more discrimination and violence than the normal person on the street, I know my chances of finding a loving partner are massively reduced. I don't think I look massively like a bloke in a dress and pass relatively well under the radar, but everyday and everytime I leave the house it takes one extra step of guts, just in case you bump into someone who is massively transphobic and gets violence or agressive. Yes, it's tiring. If I go onto any social media and some forums, the amount of bigotry and pure hate can be overwhelming, and yes, it gets tiring. Yet despite all of this, I'm still here, and I'm still trans. So why have I created a post this personal and detailed? First and foremost this isn't a "THIS IS ALL ABOUT ME, ME,ME!!!" post Well, do you think I and many other trans people would have gone through all of the above just to sneak into ladies loos? Really? No, I didn't. I got through it all so I can look at myself and feel comfortable and at peace with who I am, and that is all. When I go to the loo, all I want to do is go for a pee and wash my hands. Now, if you're tempted to say "ah, well I'm not referring to transwomen like you, it's the others who are the dangerous ones" - I've had this before and it reminds me of 80s sitcoms like Some Mother's Do Have Them, where Alf Garnett was clearly being racist towards one of his neighbours, but would always finish it with "but of course I'm not referring to you, it's the other ones I'm on about!". Looking back, those episodes really haven't aged well have they? It's wrong to try and apply one brush against a whole community who go through quite frankly, more often than not a hard and shitty existence just to try and get by....just because of a "what if...." supposition. I genuinely think that in years to come, when the "what if xxxxx happens in a loo" scenarios haven't come to pass, we will look back on those conversations with the same sort of head shaking and "blimey, that was all a bit wrong" feelings we get when watching dodgy sitcoms from the late 70s and early 80s when it came to race relations. Hmmmm, hope that vaguely helps - I'm not one for calling anyone a bigot/terf/arsehole, as I genuinely think that education and common understanding can get through most discussions.....hence me posting the above, in some hope that a bit of understanding might mean healthier discussions next time round. Whenever I've been challenged by someone and sat down and had a good chat with them and explainednwhat it's really like to be trans, they fall into 2 camps. The guys say "well, fair play, I couldn't have dealt with all of that, so crack on, good luck to you, but you still owe me a pint after all that", and the women say "wow, you've gone through all of that to just be who you are, welcome aboard!". There's no middle ground (from what I've found), so I hope and believe that a lot of opinions and views can be better formed simply by sitting down and chatting with someone who is a man/woman, but also happens to be trans. It boggles my mind that so many people can have so staunch and strong views on the trans community, but when you ask them "well how many trans people do you know, how many have you interacted with and how many do you truly understand their journey and life?"......the answer worryingly often comes back, "well none, but.....". I hope this massively long post has helped at least go someway to helping answer some of the views and questions that seem to pop up on here and cause all sorts of arguments. If not, well, let's all just be nice to each other!x " Xxxxxxxx | |||
