FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > I despair of some people

I despair of some people

By *ophieslut OP TV/TS over a year ago

Central

A woman in Louisiana is carrying a foetus without a skull. The state outlaws abortion, though has a permitted list of conditions that permit exemption from the law. This condition isn't included in that list. Her hospital has refused to do the abortion and the condition is uniformly fatal. If born, the baby may survive a few minutes or hours.

What angers me is the zealous rush that those in charge have pushed legal restrictions into place, without clear foresight to impose fully caring support for those who are stuck with the consequences of having choice and freedom from increased pain, because of such laws introduced, not to mention the horrific experience a baby would have, 'living' to die.

Humanity sinks to ever worse lows.

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By *ophieslut OP TV/TS over a year ago

Central

I apologise for my poor wording. I find this so very upsetting.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

This subject gets me so angry! I have no words

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Don't apologise, I'm sure everyone understood. It's horrific, poor lady.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

What a horrible world we live in. This terrifies me that women are denied basic health care

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By *eavenNhellCouple over a year ago

carrbrook stalybridge

but they are only following what their particular interpretation of a book of fairytales used to subjugate the masses particularly women for centurys by the rulers of thier particular skyfairys cult and saddly the masses are following like the brainwashed serfs that they are .

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"but they are only following what their particular interpretation of a book of fairytales used to subjugate the masses particularly women for centurys by the rulers of thier particular skyfairys cult and saddly the masses are following like the brainwashed serfs that they are ."

This isn't about religious beliefs, it is about controlling women.

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By *ister CMan over a year ago

liverpool

This isn't about religious beliefs, it is about controlling women. "

But it really isn't though

And its clear there is an error in her case and dispensation is allowed if you read the law

But let's ignore all that as these terrible circumstance allow outrage

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ananaman41Man over a year ago

Dublin

This isn't about religious beliefs, it is about controlling women.

But it really isn't though

And its clear there is an error in her case and dispensation is allowed if you read the law

But let's ignore all that as these terrible circumstance allow outrage "

I know. Some people really makes fools of themselves in here with their outrage

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

This isn't about religious beliefs, it is about controlling women.

But it really isn't though

And its clear there is an error in her case and dispensation is allowed if you read the law

But let's ignore all that as these terrible circumstance allow outrage "

Unless you are a woman who has had her right over her own body taken away you really don't get to comment.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

This isn't about religious beliefs, it is about controlling women.

But it really isn't though

And its clear there is an error in her case and dispensation is allowed if you read the law

But let's ignore all that as these terrible circumstance allow outrage

I know. Some people really makes fools of themselves in here with their outrage

Why don't you go back to the thread you started earlier and answer some of the questions on that.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

As a society, America should hang its head in shame, nothing short of barbaric.

Land of the free? I don’t think so

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By *ananaman41Man over a year ago

Dublin

This isn't about religious beliefs, it is about controlling women.

But it really isn't though

And its clear there is an error in her case and dispensation is allowed if you read the law

But let's ignore all that as these terrible circumstance allow outrage

I know. Some people really makes fools of themselves in here with their outrage

Why don't you go back to the thread you started earlier and answer some of the questions on that. "

Rarr rarr rarr rarr anger anger anger

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

This isn't about religious beliefs, it is about controlling women.

But it really isn't though

And its clear there is an error in her case and dispensation is allowed if you read the law

But let's ignore all that as these terrible circumstance allow outrage

I know. Some people really makes fools of themselves in here with their outrage

Why don't you go back to the thread you started earlier and answer some of the questions on that.

Rarr rarr rarr rarr anger anger anger

I'm angry and so should everybody B angry that a poor woman has been put in this position.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

This isn't about religious beliefs, it is about controlling women.

But it really isn't though

And its clear there is an error in her case and dispensation is allowed if you read the law

But let's ignore all that as these terrible circumstance allow outrage

I know. Some people really makes fools of themselves in here with their outrage

Why don't you go back to the thread you started earlier and answer some of the questions on that.

Rarr rarr rarr rarr anger anger anger

You seem to be starting very controversial threads and making very unpleasant comments, why is that?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

This isn't about religious beliefs, it is about controlling women.

But it really isn't though

And its clear there is an error in her case and dispensation is allowed if you read the law

But let's ignore all that as these terrible circumstance allow outrage

I know. Some people really makes fools of themselves in here with their outrage

Why don't you go back to the thread you started earlier and answer some of the questions on that.

Rarr rarr rarr rarr anger anger anger

You seem to be starting very controversial threads and making very unpleasant comments, why is that? "

I have some possible answers

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By *elvet RopeMan over a year ago

by the big field

This isn't about religious beliefs, it is about controlling women.

But it really isn't though

And its clear there is an error in her case and dispensation is allowed if you read the law

But let's ignore all that as these terrible circumstance allow outrage

Unless you are a woman who has had her right over her own body taken away you really don't get to comment. "

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It's a sickening world we live in.

I can't even begin to imagine how she feels

Miss S x

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ananaman41Man over a year ago

Dublin

This isn't about religious beliefs, it is about controlling women.

But it really isn't though

And its clear there is an error in her case and dispensation is allowed if you read the law

But let's ignore all that as these terrible circumstance allow outrage

I know. Some people really makes fools of themselves in here with their outrage

Why don't you go back to the thread you started earlier and answer some of the questions on that.

Rarr rarr rarr rarr anger anger anger

I'm angry and so should everybody B angry that a poor woman has been put in this position. "

If youd actually bother your arse and research the issue at hand you'd find its far more complicated then then OP made it out to be.

There is an ongoing discussion about the nature of the condition and whether it constitutes 'fatality' to the baby. Some doctors over there believe it does, others believe it to be in the realm of another condition which is not immediately fatal.

So as always, there is more than meets the eye

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

This isn't about religious beliefs, it is about controlling women.

But it really isn't though

And its clear there is an error in her case and dispensation is allowed if you read the law

But let's ignore all that as these terrible circumstance allow outrage

I know. Some people really makes fools of themselves in here with their outrage

Why don't you go back to the thread you started earlier and answer some of the questions on that.

Rarr rarr rarr rarr anger anger anger

I'm angry and so should everybody B angry that a poor woman has been put in this position.

If youd actually bother your arse and research the issue at hand you'd find its far more complicated then then OP made it out to be.

So as always, there is more than meets the eye"

No there is nothing more than meets the eye this woman should be able to decide whether she continues with her pregnancy or not, End of story.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

This isn't about religious beliefs, it is about controlling women.

But it really isn't though

And its clear there is an error in her case and dispensation is allowed if you read the law

But let's ignore all that as these terrible circumstance allow outrage

I know. Some people really makes fools of themselves in here with their outrage

Why don't you go back to the thread you started earlier and answer some of the questions on that.

Rarr rarr rarr rarr anger anger anger

I'm angry and so should everybody B angry that a poor woman has been put in this position.

If youd actually bother your arse and research the issue at hand you'd find its far more complicated then then OP made it out to be.

So as always, there is more than meets the eye"

So just because doctors are arguing whether it is "immediately fatal" makes it right?

Miss S

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

This isn't about religious beliefs, it is about controlling women.

But it really isn't though

And its clear there is an error in her case and dispensation is allowed if you read the law

But let's ignore all that as these terrible circumstance allow outrage

I know. Some people really makes fools of themselves in here with their outrage

Why don't you go back to the thread you started earlier and answer some of the questions on that.

Rarr rarr rarr rarr anger anger anger

I'm angry and so should everybody B angry that a poor woman has been put in this position.

If youd actually bother your arse and research the issue at hand you'd find its far more complicated then then OP made it out to be.

So as always, there is more than meets the eye

No there is nothing more than meets the eye this woman should be able to decide whether she continues with her pregnancy or not, End of story. "

Too right

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ananaman41Man over a year ago

Dublin

This isn't about religious beliefs, it is about controlling women.

But it really isn't though

And its clear there is an error in her case and dispensation is allowed if you read the law

But let's ignore all that as these terrible circumstance allow outrage

I know. Some people really makes fools of themselves in here with their outrage

Why don't you go back to the thread you started earlier and answer some of the questions on that.

Rarr rarr rarr rarr anger anger anger

I'm angry and so should everybody B angry that a poor woman has been put in this position.

If youd actually bother your arse and research the issue at hand you'd find its far more complicated then then OP made it out to be.

So as always, there is more than meets the eye

So just because doctors are arguing whether it is "immediately fatal" makes it right?

Miss S "

Well yes, that is the law of the state in question. The intention is to protect all the unborn where possible, unless not viable

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

This isn't about religious beliefs, it is about controlling women.

But it really isn't though

And its clear there is an error in her case and dispensation is allowed if you read the law

But let's ignore all that as these terrible circumstance allow outrage

I know. Some people really makes fools of themselves in here with their outrage

Why don't you go back to the thread you started earlier and answer some of the questions on that.

Rarr rarr rarr rarr anger anger anger

I'm angry and so should everybody B angry that a poor woman has been put in this position.

If youd actually bother your arse and research the issue at hand you'd find its far more complicated then then OP made it out to be.

So as always, there is more than meets the eye"

That really doesn’t matter. If I women decides to access the care she deserves than no man, religion or any other fucker should stop her

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *inky_couple2020Couple over a year ago

North West

"Davis’s home state is among those that have outlawed abortion with very few exceptions. Davis, from Baton Rouge, said publicly that she tried to have her pregnancy aborted after a 10-week ultrasound revealed that her fetus was missing the top of its skull – a condition known as acrania, which kills babies within minutes or hours of birth."

"Anencephaly is a fatal condition. Infants with anencephaly are stillborn in about 75 percent of cases. Newborns who survive die within several hours, days, or weeks. Acrania may cause a foetus to spontaneously abort before reaching term."

Theres no debate about the viability of a foetus with the majority of the skull missing. It's a fatal condition and it's inhumane to force this lady to go through the process of birth.

My last (apparently healthy, normal, straightforward labour) has left me physically disabled. Childbirth itself is inherently dangerous, why put the mother through this for the knowledge her baby will be dead or die in front of her eyes?

Fuck sake, this makes me very ANGRY and I don't mind saying so.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

This isn't about religious beliefs, it is about controlling women.

But it really isn't though

And its clear there is an error in her case and dispensation is allowed if you read the law

But let's ignore all that as these terrible circumstance allow outrage

I know. Some people really makes fools of themselves in here with their outrage

Why don't you go back to the thread you started earlier and answer some of the questions on that.

Rarr rarr rarr rarr anger anger anger

I'm angry and so should everybody B angry that a poor woman has been put in this position.

If youd actually bother your arse and research the issue at hand you'd find its far more complicated then then OP made it out to be.

So as always, there is more than meets the eye

So just because doctors are arguing whether it is "immediately fatal" makes it right?

Miss S

Well yes, that is the law of the state in question. The intention is to protect all the unborn where possible, unless not viable"

So let me get this straight you started a thread earlier complaining about only certain people allowed to live in a house in America but it is OK for a woman to be told what she can do with her own body? So it's not OK for a white person to be told they can't live in a house specifically meant for vulnerable people of colour but a woman can be told she should put herself and her body through absolute trauma.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ananaman41Man over a year ago

Dublin

This isn't about religious beliefs, it is about controlling women.

But it really isn't though

And its clear there is an error in her case and dispensation is allowed if you read the law

But let's ignore all that as these terrible circumstance allow outrage

I know. Some people really makes fools of themselves in here with their outrage

Why don't you go back to the thread you started earlier and answer some of the questions on that.

Rarr rarr rarr rarr anger anger anger

I'm angry and so should everybody B angry that a poor woman has been put in this position.

If youd actually bother your arse and research the issue at hand you'd find its far more complicated then then OP made it out to be.

So as always, there is more than meets the eye

That really doesn’t matter. If I women decides to access the care she deserves than no man, religion or any other fucker should stop her

By care, you mean abortion yes?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

This isn't about religious beliefs, it is about controlling women.

But it really isn't though

And its clear there is an error in her case and dispensation is allowed if you read the law

But let's ignore all that as these terrible circumstance allow outrage

I know. Some people really makes fools of themselves in here with their outrage

Why don't you go back to the thread you started earlier and answer some of the questions on that.

Rarr rarr rarr rarr anger anger anger

I'm angry and so should everybody B angry that a poor woman has been put in this position.

If youd actually bother your arse and research the issue at hand you'd find its far more complicated then then OP made it out to be.

So as always, there is more than meets the eye

So just because doctors are arguing whether it is "immediately fatal" makes it right?

Miss S

Well yes, that is the law of the state in question. The intention is to protect all the unborn where possible, unless not viable"

I get that it's the law there, I'm not arguing that, as the OP is saying it's so wrong and we are agreeing to that. So we can agree to disagree but it is so wrong!!

Miss S

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

That really doesn’t matter. If I women decides to access the care she deserves than no man, religion or any other fucker should stop her

Exactly this. When is it anyone else’s business to control another’s choices

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *inky_couple2020Couple over a year ago

North West

This isn't about religious beliefs, it is about controlling women.

But it really isn't though

And its clear there is an error in her case and dispensation is allowed if you read the law

But let's ignore all that as these terrible circumstance allow outrage

I know. Some people really makes fools of themselves in here with their outrage

Why don't you go back to the thread you started earlier and answer some of the questions on that.

Rarr rarr rarr rarr anger anger anger

I'm angry and so should everybody B angry that a poor woman has been put in this position.

If youd actually bother your arse and research the issue at hand you'd find its far more complicated then then OP made it out to be.

So as always, there is more than meets the eye

So just because doctors are arguing whether it is "immediately fatal" makes it right?

Miss S

Well yes, that is the law of the state in question. The intention is to protect all the unborn where possible, unless not viable"

This baby is definitely not viable. It will die soon after birth, if it does not die in the womb.

"Treatment and prognosis:

Acrania is lethal and can progress to anencephaly through the acrania-anencephaly sequence"

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ananaman41Man over a year ago

Dublin

This isn't about religious beliefs, it is about controlling women.

But it really isn't though

And its clear there is an error in her case and dispensation is allowed if you read the law

But let's ignore all that as these terrible circumstance allow outrage

I know. Some people really makes fools of themselves in here with their outrage

Why don't you go back to the thread you started earlier and answer some of the questions on that.

Rarr rarr rarr rarr anger anger anger

I'm angry and so should everybody B angry that a poor woman has been put in this position.

If youd actually bother your arse and research the issue at hand you'd find its far more complicated then then OP made it out to be.

So as always, there is more than meets the eye

So just because doctors are arguing whether it is "immediately fatal" makes it right?

Miss S

Well yes, that is the law of the state in question. The intention is to protect all the unborn where possible, unless not viable

Well i dont agree with abortion. Is that so hard to understand?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

This isn't about religious beliefs, it is about controlling women.

But it really isn't though

And its clear there is an error in her case and dispensation is allowed if you read the law

But let's ignore all that as these terrible circumstance allow outrage

I know. Some people really makes fools of themselves in here with their outrage

Why don't you go back to the thread you started earlier and answer some of the questions on that.

Rarr rarr rarr rarr anger anger anger

I'm angry and so should everybody B angry that a poor woman has been put in this position.

If youd actually bother your arse and research the issue at hand you'd find its far more complicated then then OP made it out to be.

So as always, there is more than meets the eye

That really doesn’t matter. If I women decides to access the care she deserves than no man, religion or any other fucker should stop her

By care, you mean abortion yes?"

It’s exactly the same if you were to get in a car you know the fucking risks… you would not be denied healthcare

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

This isn't about religious beliefs, it is about controlling women.

But it really isn't though

And its clear there is an error in her case and dispensation is allowed if you read the law

But let's ignore all that as these terrible circumstance allow outrage

I know. Some people really makes fools of themselves in here with their outrage

Why don't you go back to the thread you started earlier and answer some of the questions on that.

Rarr rarr rarr rarr anger anger anger

I'm angry and so should everybody B angry that a poor woman has been put in this position.

If youd actually bother your arse and research the issue at hand you'd find its far more complicated then then OP made it out to be.

So as always, there is more than meets the eye

So just because doctors are arguing whether it is "immediately fatal" makes it right?

Miss S

Well yes, that is the law of the state in question. The intention is to protect all the unborn where possible, unless not viable

Well i dont agree with abortion. Is that so hard to understand? "

Don’t have an abortion than

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

This isn't about religious beliefs, it is about controlling women.

But it really isn't though

And its clear there is an error in her case and dispensation is allowed if you read the law

But let's ignore all that as these terrible circumstance allow outrage

I know. Some people really makes fools of themselves in here with their outrage

Why don't you go back to the thread you started earlier and answer some of the questions on that.

Rarr rarr rarr rarr anger anger anger

I'm angry and so should everybody B angry that a poor woman has been put in this position.

If youd actually bother your arse and research the issue at hand you'd find its far more complicated then then OP made it out to be.

So as always, there is more than meets the eye

So just because doctors are arguing whether it is "immediately fatal" makes it right?

Miss S

Well yes, that is the law of the state in question. The intention is to protect all the unborn where possible, unless not viable

Well i dont agree with abortion. Is that so hard to understand?

Don’t have an abortion than

Or don't have sex with a woman in case she gets pregnant and decides not to keep the baby. Men have a role here too.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

This isn't about religious beliefs, it is about controlling women.

But it really isn't though

And its clear there is an error in her case and dispensation is allowed if you read the law

But let's ignore all that as these terrible circumstance allow outrage

Unless you are a woman who has had her right over her own body taken away you really don't get to comment. "

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ice But Very NaughtyCouple over a year ago

Swansea

If youd actually bother your arse and research the issue at hand you'd find its far more complicated then then OP made it out to be.

So as always, there is more than meets the eye"

Not immediately fatal? So what are we talking here? A day? A year? 2 years? Are you really suggesting that there's more to this because stopping the termination isn't just about forcing a woman to go through with a birth knowing she'll lose her child, but on top of that forcing a baby to be born into whatever world of pain not having a skull feels like and then live like that waiting for the inevitable? Really? I mean honestly? Not immediately fatal really makes this situation better?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ister CMan over a year ago

liverpool

This isn't about religious beliefs, it is about controlling women.

But it really isn't though

And its clear there is an error in her case and dispensation is allowed if you read the law

But let's ignore all that as these terrible circumstance allow outrage

I know. Some people really makes fools of themselves in here with their outrage

Why don't you go back to the thread you started earlier and answer some of the questions on that.

Rarr rarr rarr rarr anger anger anger

I'm angry and so should everybody B angry that a poor woman has been put in this position. "

We should be angry at a lack of clarity around the issue.

But you're wrong in asserting we don't have a voice because we're not women. That's a pathetic reductionist view point... like asserting certain races can not have a view of racism as they are not of that race.

I think you're likely just angry as you're being faced with a form of debate.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

This isn't about religious beliefs, it is about controlling women.

But it really isn't though

And its clear there is an error in her case and dispensation is allowed if you read the law

But let's ignore all that as these terrible circumstance allow outrage

I know. Some people really makes fools of themselves in here with their outrage

Why don't you go back to the thread you started earlier and answer some of the questions on that.

Rarr rarr rarr rarr anger anger anger

I'm angry and so should everybody B angry that a poor woman has been put in this position.

If youd actually bother your arse and research the issue at hand you'd find its far more complicated then then OP made it out to be.

So as always, there is more than meets the eye

So just because doctors are arguing whether it is "immediately fatal" makes it right?

Miss S

Well yes, that is the law of the state in question. The intention is to protect all the unborn where possible, unless not viable

Well i dont agree with abortion. Is that so hard to understand? "

Even when the health of the baby or mother are in danger?

Miss S

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ananaman41Man over a year ago

Dublin

This isn't about religious beliefs, it is about controlling women.

But it really isn't though

And its clear there is an error in her case and dispensation is allowed if you read the law

But let's ignore all that as these terrible circumstance allow outrage

I know. Some people really makes fools of themselves in here with their outrage

Why don't you go back to the thread you started earlier and answer some of the questions on that.

Rarr rarr rarr rarr anger anger anger

I'm angry and so should everybody B angry that a poor woman has been put in this position.

If youd actually bother your arse and research the issue at hand you'd find its far more complicated then then OP made it out to be.

So as always, there is more than meets the eye

So just because doctors are arguing whether it is "immediately fatal" makes it right?

Miss S

Well yes, that is the law of the state in question. The intention is to protect all the unborn where possible, unless not viable

Well i dont agree with abortion. Is that so hard to understand?

Don’t have an abortion than

Or don't have sex with a woman in case she gets pregnant and decides not to keep the baby. Men have a role here too. "

Yes they absolutely do. That role is to be there for the mother and baby and be the best support and father they can

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ananaman41Man over a year ago

Dublin

This isn't about religious beliefs, it is about controlling women.

But it really isn't though

And its clear there is an error in her case and dispensation is allowed if you read the law

But let's ignore all that as these terrible circumstance allow outrage

I know. Some people really makes fools of themselves in here with their outrage

Why don't you go back to the thread you started earlier and answer some of the questions on that.

Rarr rarr rarr rarr anger anger anger

I'm angry and so should everybody B angry that a poor woman has been put in this position.

If youd actually bother your arse and research the issue at hand you'd find its far more complicated then then OP made it out to be.

So as always, there is more than meets the eye

So just because doctors are arguing whether it is "immediately fatal" makes it right?

Miss S

Well yes, that is the law of the state in question. The intention is to protect all the unborn where possible, unless not viable

Well i dont agree with abortion. Is that so hard to understand?

Even when the health of the baby or mother are in danger?

Miss S "

Nope, i agree it should be accessible in that situation

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *inky_couple2020Couple over a year ago

North West

If youd actually bother your arse and research the issue at hand you'd find its far more complicated then then OP made it out to be.

So as always, there is more than meets the eye

Mr"

Viability is usual measured in minutes or hours. It's fatal soon after birth.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

This isn't about religious beliefs, it is about controlling women.

But it really isn't though

And its clear there is an error in her case and dispensation is allowed if you read the law

But let's ignore all that as these terrible circumstance allow outrage

I know. Some people really makes fools of themselves in here with their outrage

Why don't you go back to the thread you started earlier and answer some of the questions on that.

Rarr rarr rarr rarr anger anger anger

I'm angry and so should everybody B angry that a poor woman has been put in this position.

We should be angry at a lack of clarity around the issue.

I think you're likely just angry as you're being faced with a form of debate. "

Absolutely no need for that response or for you to make assertions about me as a person. You can have a voice however ultimately it is not your decision what an individual woman chooses to do with her. There is nothing else to discuss.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ananaman41Man over a year ago

Dublin

This isn't about religious beliefs, it is about controlling women.

But it really isn't though

And its clear there is an error in her case and dispensation is allowed if you read the law

But let's ignore all that as these terrible circumstance allow outrage

I know. Some people really makes fools of themselves in here with their outrage

Why don't you go back to the thread you started earlier and answer some of the questions on that.

Rarr rarr rarr rarr anger anger anger

I'm angry and so should everybody B angry that a poor woman has been put in this position.

We should be angry at a lack of clarity around the issue.

I think you're likely just angry as you're being faced with a form of debate. "

An excellent observation

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ister CMan over a year ago

liverpool

That really doesn’t matter. If I women decides to access the care she deserves than no man, religion or any other fucker should stop her

Exactly this. When is it anyone else’s business to control another’s choices"

Maybe when the person making the choice is deciding to take another's life?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *inky_couple2020Couple over a year ago

North West

Some so called doctors in America postulated that ectopic pregnancies could be detached and reattached in the womb, which is patently ridiculous and impossible. Such bunkum was cited by some states when making the new laws. It's medically impossible.

There's zero debate about acrania. It is fatal, usually minutes to hours after birth or more commonly, results in miscarriage or stillbirth.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ananaman41Man over a year ago

Dublin

That really doesn’t matter. If I women decides to access the care she deserves than no man, religion or any other fucker should stop her

Exactly this. When is it anyone else’s business to control another’s choices

Maybe when the person making the choice is deciding to take another's life? "

Therein lies the crux of the matter. I debated this on here a few days ago with one woman and she referred to the u born baby as merely a 'cluster of cells'. So thats how she rationalised her comfort with it

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

So, again apologies I've had wine.

What I've gathered from this thread and previous ones this evening is that some people are just born a dickhead.

That aside, nobody has the right to tell anyone else what to do with their body.

Not your body, not your fucking business.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"So, again apologies I've had wine.

What I've gathered from this thread and previous ones this evening is that some people are just born a dickhead.

That aside, nobody has the right to tell anyone else what to do with their body.

Not your body, not your fucking business. "

Absolutely!

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ananaman41Man over a year ago

Dublin

"So, again apologies I've had wine.

What I've gathered from this thread and previous ones this evening is that some people are just born a dickhead.

That aside, nobody has the right to tell anyone else what to do with their body.

Not your body, not your fucking business. "

The issue goes far beyond that though however. Whether you believe it should or not

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Nope, i agree it should be accessible in that situation "

Nope… I’m any situation. It should AlLWAYS be the women’s choice!!

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *inky_couple2020Couple over a year ago

North West

That really doesn’t matter. If I women decides to access the care she deserves than no man, religion or any other fucker should stop her

Exactly this. When is it anyone else’s business to control another’s choices

Maybe when the person making the choice is deciding to take another's life?

Until a given point in the pregnancy, it IS a cluster of cells. No specialisation, no human shape. It's a ball of cells that then turns inside out and the cells around the outside on one side start to specialise into body cells and on the other side, specialise to become the placenta and umbilical cord (highly simplified).

Humans originate from a single cell, formed by the fusion of one ovum with the head of one sperm.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

" This isn't about religious beliefs, it is about controlling women.

But it really isn't though

And its clear there is an error in her case and dispensation is allowed if you read the law

But let's ignore all that as these terrible circumstance allow outrage

I know. Some people really makes fools of themselves in here with their outrage

Why don't you go back to the thread you started earlier and answer some of the questions on that.

Rarr rarr rarr rarr anger anger anger

I'm angry and so should everybody B angry that a poor woman has been put in this position.

We should be angry at a lack of clarity around the issue.

I think you're likely just angry as you're being faced with a form of debate. "

I mean you’re allowed to have an opinion but the idea that the opinion should have equal value in conversations surrounding a woman’s body is weird to me. Why would an issue that effectively takes away a woman’s autonomy over her own body need a man’s opinion? Genuinely.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Some so called doctors in America postulated that ectopic pregnancies could be detached and reattached in the womb, which is patently ridiculous and impossible. Such bunkum was cited by some states when making the new laws. It's medically impossible.

There's zero debate about acrania. It is fatal, usually minutes to hours after birth or more commonly, results in miscarriage or stillbirth. "

Perhaps the poster who claims otherwise could provide some evidence then? Although I still believe it's the choice of the woman concerned. Not a number of doctors, none of whom will have to give birth to a stillborn child.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"So, again apologies I've had wine.

What I've gathered from this thread and previous ones this evening is that some people are just born a dickhead.

That aside, nobody has the right to tell anyone else what to do with their body.

Not your body, not your fucking business. "

Miss S

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

That really doesn’t matter. If I women decides to access the care she deserves than no man, religion or any other fucker should stop her

Exactly this. When is it anyone else’s business to control another’s choices

Maybe when the person making the choice is deciding to take another's life? "

It’s a Fetus… maybe a lesson in biology is needed here

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ananaman41Man over a year ago

Dublin

Nope, i agree it should be accessible in that situation

Nope… I’m any situation. It should AlLWAYS be the women’s choice!! "

Ok well we shall politely agree to disagree on that so

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Nope, i agree it should be accessible in that situation

Nope… In any situation. It should ALWAYS be the women’s choice!! "

I couldn’t be any further in your corner here!

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

That really doesn’t matter. If I women decides to access the care she deserves than no man, religion or any other fucker should stop her

Exactly this. When is it anyone else’s business to control another’s choices

Maybe when the person making the choice is deciding to take another's life? "

Did the guy sticking his penis in her think about the life he may be making?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ister CMan over a year ago

liverpool

That really doesn’t matter. If I women decides to access the care she deserves than no man, religion or any other fucker should stop her

Exactly this. When is it anyone else’s business to control another’s choices

Maybe when the person making the choice is deciding to take another's life?

A unique cluster of cells as unique as anyone here... specifically with its own unique dna profile.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"So, again apologies I've had wine.

What I've gathered from this thread and previous ones this evening is that some people are just born a dickhead.

That aside, nobody has the right to tell anyone else what to do with their body.

Not your body, not your fucking business. "

Agree. And legally in this country at least the state and a man have no rights over an unborn child which means that what happens to it, it is a decision entirely up to the woman unless she chooses to include others.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"So, again apologies I've had wine.

What I've gathered from this thread and previous ones this evening is that some people are just born a dickhead.

That aside, nobody has the right to tell anyone else what to do with their body.

Not your body, not your fucking business.

The issue goes far beyond that though however. Whether you believe it should or not"

Oh please do enlighten me.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *inky_couple2020Couple over a year ago

North West

That really doesn’t matter. If I women decides to access the care she deserves than no man, religion or any other fucker should stop her

Exactly this. When is it anyone else’s business to control another’s choices

Maybe when the person making the choice is deciding to take another's life?

A unique cluster of cells as unique as anyone here... specifically with its own unique dna profile. "

Unless it's an identical twin, formed from the full cleavage of one zygote

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ananaman41Man over a year ago

Dublin

"So, again apologies I've had wine.

What I've gathered from this thread and previous ones this evening is that some people are just born a dickhead.

That aside, nobody has the right to tell anyone else what to do with their body.

Not your body, not your fucking business.

The issue goes far beyond that though however. Whether you believe it should or not

Oh please do enlighten me."

Well we're discussing it are we not? And many many people the world over, as well as many laws in many countries, disagree with what you said. Hence, it clearly goes far beyond that

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ister CMan over a year ago

liverpool

That really doesn’t matter. If I women decides to access the care she deserves than no man, religion or any other fucker should stop her

Exactly this. When is it anyone else’s business to control another’s choices

Maybe when the person making the choice is deciding to take another's life?

Did the guy sticking his penis in her think about the life he may be making? "

Well unless he never went to school I'd assume so...

You dont want kids... dont do the sex.

There are litterally so many available ways of preventing it... double layer protections.

But fundamentally if you don't want baby don't do the sex.

All of them are infinitely easier to apply than 'an abortion' and I 100% agree it takes two

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"So, again apologies I've had wine.

What I've gathered from this thread and previous ones this evening is that some people are just born a dickhead.

That aside, nobody has the right to tell anyone else what to do with their body.

Not your body, not your fucking business.

Does a woman have a right to make you have a vasectomy?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *inky_couple2020Couple over a year ago

North West

"So, again apologies I've had wine.

What I've gathered from this thread and previous ones this evening is that some people are just born a dickhead.

That aside, nobody has the right to tell anyone else what to do with their body.

Not your body, not your fucking business.

The issue goes far beyond that though however. Whether you believe it should or not

Oh please do enlighten me.

Well we're discussing it are we not? And many many people the world over, as well as many laws in many countries, disagree with what you said. Hence, it clearly goes far beyond that"

The laws in many countries are overtly or subtlety based on religious teaching. South American countries have limited abortion (Catholic influence). Most Middle Eastern countries have little/no access to abortion (Islamic influence).

Religious influence on law making is about as rational as reading tea leaves and hoping it'll give you the lottery numbers.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

That really doesn’t matter. If I women decides to access the care she deserves than no man, religion or any other fucker should stop her

Exactly this. When is it anyone else’s business to control another’s choices

Maybe when the person making the choice is deciding to take another's life?

Did the guy sticking his penis in her think about the life he may be making?

Well unless he never went to school I'd assume so...

You dont want kids... dont do the sex.

There are litterally so many available ways of preventing it... double layer protections.

But fundamentally if you don't want baby don't do the sex.

All of them are infinitely easier to apply than 'an abortion' and I 100% agree it takes two

When it comes to men, never assume.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ananaman41Man over a year ago

Dublin

"So, again apologies I've had wine.

What I've gathered from this thread and previous ones this evening is that some people are just born a dickhead.

That aside, nobody has the right to tell anyone else what to do with their body.

Not your body, not your fucking business.

Does a woman have a right to make you have a vasectomy? "

What 3rd party life is involved in a vasectomy?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ister CMan over a year ago

liverpool

"So, again apologies I've had wine.

What I've gathered from this thread and previous ones this evening is that some people are just born a dickhead.

That aside, nobody has the right to tell anyone else what to do with their body.

Not your body, not your fucking business.

Does a woman have a right to make you have a vasectomy?

What 3rd party life is involved in a vasectomy? "

Beat me to it

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *inky_couple2020Couple over a year ago

North West

"So, again apologies I've had wine.

What I've gathered from this thread and previous ones this evening is that some people are just born a dickhead.

That aside, nobody has the right to tell anyone else what to do with their body.

Not your body, not your fucking business.

Does a woman have a right to make you have a vasectomy?

What 3rd party life is involved in a vasectomy? "

Every sperm is sacred. Do not spill your seed upon the ground.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"So, again apologies I've had wine.

What I've gathered from this thread and previous ones this evening is that some people are just born a dickhead.

That aside, nobody has the right to tell anyone else what to do with their body.

Not your body, not your fucking business.

The issue goes far beyond that though however. Whether you believe it should or not

Oh please do enlighten me.

Well we're discussing it are we not? And many many people the world over, as well as many laws in many countries, disagree with what you said. Hence, it clearly goes far beyond that"

Hence, not your body, still not your choice whether you agree with it or not.

I don't agree with a lot of things but it's not my choice. I accept that.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ananaman41Man over a year ago

Dublin

"So, again apologies I've had wine.

What I've gathered from this thread and previous ones this evening is that some people are just born a dickhead.

That aside, nobody has the right to tell anyone else what to do with their body.

Not your body, not your fucking business.

Does a woman have a right to make you have a vasectomy?

What 3rd party life is involved in a vasectomy?

Every sperm is sacred. Do not spill your seed upon the ground."

Nothing has been conceived so nothing is being terminated in a vasectomy. I know you were only being facetious but im reposnding anyway

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

What a genuinely heartbreaking trauma for any woman to go through

This shouldn’t be happening in the 21st century!

The worlds going backwards

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"So, again apologies I've had wine.

What I've gathered from this thread and previous ones this evening is that some people are just born a dickhead.

That aside, nobody has the right to tell anyone else what to do with their body.

Not your body, not your fucking business.

Does a woman have a right to make you have a vasectomy?

What 3rd party life is involved in a vasectomy?

Every sperm is sacred. Do not spill your seed upon the ground.

Nothing has been conceived so nothing is being terminated in a vasectomy. I know you were only being facetious but im reposnding anyway"

Because you like to argue.

That much is clear!

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

That really doesn’t matter. If I women decides to access the care she deserves than no man, religion or any other fucker should stop her

Exactly this. When is it anyone else’s business to control another’s choices

Maybe when the person making the choice is deciding to take another's life?

Did the guy sticking his penis in her think about the life he may be making?

Well unless he never went to school I'd assume so...

You dont want kids... dont do the sex.

There are litterally so many available ways of preventing it... double layer protections.

But fundamentally if you don't want baby don't do the sex.

All of them are infinitely easier to apply than 'an abortion' and I 100% agree it takes two

Ok women… you have heard it here first… let’s under no circumstances have sex with this man. As we know contraceptives can fail

You have absolutely no idea of a women’s body

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"So, again apologies I've had wine.

What I've gathered from this thread and previous ones this evening is that some people are just born a dickhead.

That aside, nobody has the right to tell anyone else what to do with their body.

Not your body, not your fucking business.

Does a woman have a right to make you have a vasectomy?

What 3rd party life is involved in a vasectomy?

Every sperm is sacred. Do not spill your seed upon the ground.

Nothing has been conceived so nothing is being terminated in a vasectomy. I know you were only being facetious but im reposnding anyway"

Yes but sperm could potentially be a baby at some point so maybe you shouldn’t wank so much..

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

To those who oppose abortion - what circumstances do you think they're acceptable?

The mother has been r@ped

The mother has been abused by a family member

The baby is likely to die

The mother is likely to die

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ananaman41Man over a year ago

Dublin

"So, again apologies I've had wine.

What I've gathered from this thread and previous ones this evening is that some people are just born a dickhead.

That aside, nobody has the right to tell anyone else what to do with their body.

Not your body, not your fucking business.

Does a woman have a right to make you have a vasectomy?

What 3rd party life is involved in a vasectomy?

Every sperm is sacred. Do not spill your seed upon the ground.

Nothing has been conceived so nothing is being terminated in a vasectomy. I know you were only being facetious but im reposnding anyway

Because you like to argue.

That much is clear!

Thats not true. I like to discuss.

Lots of people are responding to me,including yourself.

Do they all like to argue as well?

Or is it only those who you dont agree with are doing the arguing?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *inky_couple2020Couple over a year ago

North West

"So, again apologies I've had wine.

What I've gathered from this thread and previous ones this evening is that some people are just born a dickhead.

That aside, nobody has the right to tell anyone else what to do with their body.

Not your body, not your fucking business.

Does a woman have a right to make you have a vasectomy?

What 3rd party life is involved in a vasectomy?

Every sperm is sacred. Do not spill your seed upon the ground.

Nothing has been conceived so nothing is being terminated in a vasectomy. I know you were only being facetious but im reposnding anyway"

The Bible quite literally states "do not spill your seed on the ground". This has been used by the Catholic church to ban contraception, dissuade masturbation and a bunch of other oppression.

By that logic, why is it okay to sever the vas deferens? Sperm are still being synthesised in the millions every day but will have no route out and will die in the testes.

Is this not actively preventing pregnancy in the way other barrier contraception is? Why is it not okay to use a condom (to the religious types) but okay to sever the connection between the sperm's origin and the destination?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"So, again apologies I've had wine.

What I've gathered from this thread and previous ones this evening is that some people are just born a dickhead.

That aside, nobody has the right to tell anyone else what to do with their body.

Not your body, not your fucking business.

Does a woman have a right to make you have a vasectomy?

What 3rd party life is involved in a vasectomy?

Every sperm is sacred. Do not spill your seed upon the ground.

Nothing has been conceived so nothing is being terminated in a vasectomy. I know you were only being facetious but im reposnding anyway

Because you like to argue.

That much is clear!

Thats not true. I like to discuss.

Lots of people are responding to me,including yourself.

Do they all like to argue as well?

Or is it only those who you dont agree with are doing the arguing? "

I'm bored now.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ananaman41Man over a year ago

Dublin

"To those who oppose abortion - what circumstances do you think they're acceptable?

The mother has been r@ped

The mother has been abused by a family member

The baby is likely to die

The mother is likely to die"

I think possibly all of them. Certainly the latter 2 and i am also leaning toward a yes with the former 2

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ice But Very NaughtyCouple over a year ago

Swansea

That really doesn’t matter. If I women decides to access the care she deserves than no man, religion or any other fucker should stop her

Exactly this. When is it anyone else’s business to control another’s choices

Maybe when the person making the choice is deciding to take another's life?

Out of interest, at what point do you believe a cell or group of cells becomes an autonomous human being?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"So, again apologies I've had wine.

What I've gathered from this thread and previous ones this evening is that some people are just born a dickhead.

That aside, nobody has the right to tell anyone else what to do with their body.

Not your body, not your fucking business.

Does a woman have a right to make you have a vasectomy?

What 3rd party life is involved in a vasectomy?

Every sperm is sacred. Do not spill your seed upon the ground.

Nothing has been conceived so nothing is being terminated in a vasectomy. I know you were only being facetious but im reposnding anyway

Because you like to argue.

That much is clear!

Thats not true. I like to discuss.

Lots of people are responding to me,including yourself.

Do they all like to argue as well?

Or is it only those who you dont agree with are doing the arguing?

I'm bored now. "
wanna come nocturnal with us

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"So, again apologies I've had wine.

What I've gathered from this thread and previous ones this evening is that some people are just born a dickhead.

That aside, nobody has the right to tell anyone else what to do with their body.

Not your body, not your fucking business.

Does a woman have a right to make you have a vasectomy?

What 3rd party life is involved in a vasectomy?

Every sperm is sacred. Do not spill your seed upon the ground.

Nothing has been conceived so nothing is being terminated in a vasectomy. I know you were only being facetious but im reposnding anyway

Because you like to argue.

That much is clear!

Thats not true. I like to discuss.

Lots of people are responding to me,including yourself.

Do they all like to argue as well?

Or is it only those who you dont agree with are doing the arguing?

I'm bored now. wanna come nocturnal with us

Ooh that sounds much more fun.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"To those who oppose abortion - what circumstances do you think they're acceptable?

The mother has been r@ped

The mother has been abused by a family member

The baby is likely to die

The mother is likely to die

I think possibly all of them. Certainly the latter 2 and i am also leaning toward a yes with the former 2"

But you're arguing in this case (where the baby will likely die) that abortion shouldn't be allowed?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ananaman41Man over a year ago

Dublin

"So, again apologies I've had wine.

What I've gathered from this thread and previous ones this evening is that some people are just born a dickhead.

That aside, nobody has the right to tell anyone else what to do with their body.

Not your body, not your fucking business.

Does a woman have a right to make you have a vasectomy?

What 3rd party life is involved in a vasectomy?

Every sperm is sacred. Do not spill your seed upon the ground.

Nothing has been conceived so nothing is being terminated in a vasectomy. I know you were only being facetious but im reposnding anyway

The Bible quite literally states "do not spill your seed on the ground". This has been used by the Catholic church to ban contraception, dissuade masturbation and a bunch of other oppression.

By that logic, why is it okay to sever the vas deferens? Sperm are still being synthesised in the millions every day but will have no route out and will die in the testes.

You seem to be wandering off into the a debate about contraception now. I have no issue with contraception

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ananaman41Man over a year ago

Dublin

That really doesn’t matter. If I women decides to access the care she deserves than no man, religion or any other fucker should stop her

Exactly this. When is it anyone else’s business to control another’s choices

Maybe when the person making the choice is deciding to take another's life?

Out of interest, at what point do you believe a cell or group of cells becomes an autonomous human being?

Mr"

I believe at the point of conception it becomes a life that requires protection

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"To those who oppose abortion - what circumstances do you think they're acceptable?

The mother has been r@ped

The mother has been abused by a family member

The baby is likely to die

The mother is likely to die"

Abortion is acceptable in any circumstances it is always the woman’s choice nobody else’s. It is her healthcare that she is rightly entitled to

It is never anybody’s business to question why an abortion has had to take place. The very fact that i am having this discussion scares the fuck out of me

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ananaman41Man over a year ago

Dublin

"So, again apologies I've had wine.

What I've gathered from this thread and previous ones this evening is that some people are just born a dickhead.

That aside, nobody has the right to tell anyone else what to do with their body.

Not your body, not your fucking business.

Does a woman have a right to make you have a vasectomy?

What 3rd party life is involved in a vasectomy?

Every sperm is sacred. Do not spill your seed upon the ground.

Nothing has been conceived so nothing is being terminated in a vasectomy. I know you were only being facetious but im reposnding anyway

Because you like to argue.

That much is clear!

Thats not true. I like to discuss.

Lots of people are responding to me,including yourself.

Do they all like to argue as well?

Or is it only those who you dont agree with are doing the arguing?

I'm bored now. "

No answer to that question then i see. Fair enough

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *inky_couple2020Couple over a year ago

North West

"So, again apologies I've had wine.

What I've gathered from this thread and previous ones this evening is that some people are just born a dickhead.

That aside, nobody has the right to tell anyone else what to do with their body.

Not your body, not your fucking business.

Does a woman have a right to make you have a vasectomy?

What 3rd party life is involved in a vasectomy?

Every sperm is sacred. Do not spill your seed upon the ground.

Nothing has been conceived so nothing is being terminated in a vasectomy. I know you were only being facetious but im reposnding anyway

The Bible quite literally states "do not spill your seed on the ground". This has been used by the Catholic church to ban contraception, dissuade masturbation and a bunch of other oppression.

By that logic, why is it okay to sever the vas deferens? Sperm are still being synthesised in the millions every day but will have no route out and will die in the testes.

You seem to be wandering off into the a debate about contraception now. I have no issue with contraception"

The same religious arguments about contraception are being used by fundamentalist Christians in the USA to justify banning abortion in all circumstances. That's the connection.

Would you like to answer the question about the vasectomy? Presumably its fine for your opposite sex partner to insist you have one, if you can insist she cannot have autonomy over her body? Both procedures stop life from existing, just at different stages of the process.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"So, again apologies I've had wine.

What I've gathered from this thread and previous ones this evening is that some people are just born a dickhead.

That aside, nobody has the right to tell anyone else what to do with their body.

Not your body, not your fucking business.

Does a woman have a right to make you have a vasectomy?

What 3rd party life is involved in a vasectomy?

Every sperm is sacred. Do not spill your seed upon the ground.

Nothing has been conceived so nothing is being terminated in a vasectomy. I know you were only being facetious but im reposnding anyway

Because you like to argue.

That much is clear!

Thats not true. I like to discuss.

Lots of people are responding to me,including yourself.

Do they all like to argue as well?

Or is it only those who you dont agree with are doing the arguing?

I'm bored now.

No answer to that question then i see. Fair enough"

Would you like to go back and answer the questions on the thread you started earlier?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ananaman41Man over a year ago

Dublin

"To those who oppose abortion - what circumstances do you think they're acceptable?

The mother has been r@ped

The mother has been abused by a family member

The baby is likely to die

The mother is likely to die

I think possibly all of them. Certainly the latter 2 and i am also leaning toward a yes with the former 2

But you're arguing in this case (where the baby will likely die) that abortion shouldn't be allowed? "

Nope. Im simply stating regarding this case that it is complicated due to the medical interpretation of the specific condition.

The thread has however devolved now into a general abortion debate

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"So, again apologies I've had wine.

What I've gathered from this thread and previous ones this evening is that some people are just born a dickhead.

That aside, nobody has the right to tell anyone else what to do with their body.

Not your body, not your fucking business.

Does a woman have a right to make you have a vasectomy?

What 3rd party life is involved in a vasectomy?

Every sperm is sacred. Do not spill your seed upon the ground.

Nothing has been conceived so nothing is being terminated in a vasectomy. I know you were only being facetious but im reposnding anyway

Because you like to argue.

That much is clear!

Thats not true. I like to discuss.

Lots of people are responding to me,including yourself.

Do they all like to argue as well?

Or is it only those who you dont agree with are doing the arguing?

I'm bored now.

No answer to that question then i see. Fair enough"

You would argue black is white.

Until you've been in that situation, don't get all high and mighty about the rights of the unborn child.

You haven't a clue, and luckily for you, you never will.

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By *ananaman41Man over a year ago

Dublin

"So, again apologies I've had wine.

What I've gathered from this thread and previous ones this evening is that some people are just born a dickhead.

That aside, nobody has the right to tell anyone else what to do with their body.

Not your body, not your fucking business.

Does a woman have a right to make you have a vasectomy?

What 3rd party life is involved in a vasectomy?

Every sperm is sacred. Do not spill your seed upon the ground.

Nothing has been conceived so nothing is being terminated in a vasectomy. I know you were only being facetious but im reposnding anyway

The Bible quite literally states "do not spill your seed on the ground". This has been used by the Catholic church to ban contraception, dissuade masturbation and a bunch of other oppression.

By that logic, why is it okay to sever the vas deferens? Sperm are still being synthesised in the millions every day but will have no route out and will die in the testes.

You seem to be wandering off into the a debate about contraception now. I have no issue with contraception

The same religious arguments about contraception are being used by fundamentalist Christians in the USA to justify banning abortion in all circumstances. That's the connection.

I already answered that above. There is no 3rd party life form involved in a vasectomy. There is with an abortion

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By *inky_couple2020Couple over a year ago

North West

"To those who oppose abortion - what circumstances do you think they're acceptable?

The mother has been r@ped

The mother has been abused by a family member

The baby is likely to die

The mother is likely to die

I think possibly all of them. Certainly the latter 2 and i am also leaning toward a yes with the former 2

But you're arguing in this case (where the baby will likely die) that abortion shouldn't be allowed?

Nope. Im simply stating regarding this case that it is complicated due to the medical interpretation of the specific condition.

The thread has however devolved now into a general abortion debate"

Please provide a source that states acrania is not 100% fatal.

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By *ananaman41Man over a year ago

Dublin

"So, again apologies I've had wine.

What I've gathered from this thread and previous ones this evening is that some people are just born a dickhead.

That aside, nobody has the right to tell anyone else what to do with their body.

Not your body, not your fucking business.

Does a woman have a right to make you have a vasectomy?

What 3rd party life is involved in a vasectomy?

Every sperm is sacred. Do not spill your seed upon the ground.

Nothing has been conceived so nothing is being terminated in a vasectomy. I know you were only being facetious but im reposnding anyway

Because you like to argue.

That much is clear!

Thats not true. I like to discuss.

Lots of people are responding to me,including yourself.

Do they all like to argue as well?

Or is it only those who you dont agree with are doing the arguing?

I'm bored now.

No answer to that question then i see. Fair enough

Would you like to go back and answer the questions on the thread you started earlier? "

I can only debate in so many places at one time

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *inky_couple2020Couple over a year ago

North West

"So, again apologies I've had wine.

What I've gathered from this thread and previous ones this evening is that some people are just born a dickhead.

That aside, nobody has the right to tell anyone else what to do with their body.

Not your body, not your fucking business.

Does a woman have a right to make you have a vasectomy?

What 3rd party life is involved in a vasectomy?

Every sperm is sacred. Do not spill your seed upon the ground.

Nothing has been conceived so nothing is being terminated in a vasectomy. I know you were only being facetious but im reposnding anyway

Because you like to argue.

That much is clear!

Thats not true. I like to discuss.

Lots of people are responding to me,including yourself.

Do they all like to argue as well?

Or is it only those who you dont agree with are doing the arguing?

I'm bored now.

No answer to that question then i see. Fair enough

Would you like to go back and answer the questions on the thread you started earlier?

I can only debate in so many places at one time"

Indeed, multi tasking is demonstrated to be a trait more likely to be found in females

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By *ister CMan over a year ago

liverpool

That really doesn’t matter. If I women decides to access the care she deserves than no man, religion or any other fucker should stop her

Exactly this. When is it anyone else’s business to control another’s choices

Maybe when the person making the choice is deciding to take another's life?

Out of interest, at what point do you believe a cell or group of cells becomes an autonomous human being?

Mr"

Define autonomous please... not that I think autonomy is the pivitol point... rather the man and womans autonomy allows them to take steps in avoiding creating a unique set of cells and dna

Unless you know, they're careless or selfish.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"To those who oppose abortion - what circumstances do you think they're acceptable?

The mother has been r@ped

The mother has been abused by a family member

The baby is likely to die

The mother is likely to die

I think possibly all of them. Certainly the latter 2 and i am also leaning toward a yes with the former 2

But you're arguing in this case (where the baby will likely die) that abortion shouldn't be allowed?

Nope. Im simply stating regarding this case that it is complicated due to the medical interpretation of the specific condition.

The thread has however devolved now into a general abortion debate"

You've not provided any evidence that the condition is complicated. And that was the case raised by the OP.

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By *ananaman41Man over a year ago

Dublin

"To those who oppose abortion - what circumstances do you think they're acceptable?

The mother has been r@ped

The mother has been abused by a family member

The baby is likely to die

The mother is likely to die

I think possibly all of them. Certainly the latter 2 and i am also leaning toward a yes with the former 2

But you're arguing in this case (where the baby will likely die) that abortion shouldn't be allowed?

Nope. Im simply stating regarding this case that it is complicated due to the medical interpretation of the specific condition.

The thread has however devolved now into a general abortion debate

Please provide a source that states acrania is not 100% fatal. "

Im not saying thats the case. But there is an ongoing medical dispute in this particular case which is debating that very thing

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By *tephanjMan over a year ago

Kettering

Bloody Americans they are brainless. What happened to women's rights. Oh sorry forgot men arrange women rights in the US grr

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By *inky_couple2020Couple over a year ago

North West

That really doesn’t matter. If I women decides to access the care she deserves than no man, religion or any other fucker should stop her

Exactly this. When is it anyone else’s business to control another’s choices

Maybe when the person making the choice is deciding to take another's life?

Out of interest, at what point do you believe a cell or group of cells becomes an autonomous human being?

Define autonomous please... not that I think autonomy is the pivitol point... rather the man and womans autonomy allows them to take steps in avoiding creating a unique set of cells and dna

Unless you know, they're careless or selfish. "

Autonomous - "existing or capable of existing independently"

Dictionaries do exist online.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple over a year ago

North West

"To those who oppose abortion - what circumstances do you think they're acceptable?

The mother has been r@ped

The mother has been abused by a family member

The baby is likely to die

The mother is likely to die

I think possibly all of them. Certainly the latter 2 and i am also leaning toward a yes with the former 2

But you're arguing in this case (where the baby will likely die) that abortion shouldn't be allowed?

Nope. Im simply stating regarding this case that it is complicated due to the medical interpretation of the specific condition.

The thread has however devolved now into a general abortion debate

Please provide a source that states acrania is not 100% fatal.

Im not saying thats the case. But there is an ongoing medical dispute in this particular case which is debating that very thing"

No, there isn't. There's a bunch of religious zealots claiming black is white. The same zealots who claimed ectopic pregnancies could be reimplanted, contrary to the laws of medical science.

Please provide some evidence that there's even a debate and if there's a debate, it must be based on some kind of evidence, so kindly share this.

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By *agicM53XMan over a year ago

Orpington

It really amazed me how black and white this discussion has become. The circumstances that the OP has described are very unique, and under these circumstances there is no question that the woman should be the only one that chooses the outcome...however the story is linked to a bigger more complicated discussion, which is the ethics of abortion. I rarely get involved in such a conversation, because I don't have a concrete answer to the question. I truly believe that women should have autonomy (in any and every aspect of their life) when it comes to their body and I support that... however I tell you this, when my sister was 5 months pregnant I remember placing my hand on her belly and feeling my now 9 year old nephew, and I must admit that was one of the few moments in my adult life that made me emotional, because I felt him move, I felt life , I felt his life, and when I think that in England the latest you can have an abortion is 23 weeks (which is 5.2 months), that makes me sad. Listen I know that all pregnancies are different and complications might appear and sometimes a 5 month pregnancy has to be aborted to save the life of the mother, I get that , and I wouldn't stand against it...but it still would make me sad, and if it makes me sad, it makes me question the ethics of it. Maybe it's a necessary evil in our society (as some have said) or maybe it's just necessary ...I truly do not know, and I will probably never have a concrete opinion about this topic, maybe I'm not even intelligent enough to talk about it, but I am emotionally intelligent enough to understand the complexity of the ethics of abortion... and it's never as black and white as some would like it to be .

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By *inky_couple2020Couple over a year ago

North West

I think it would be sadder to watch one's sister go through the rigours of giving birth (which is dangerous) and then to watch your niece/nephew die in front of your and her eyes or be born dead.

This is what will happen in this case.

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By *ister CMan over a year ago

liverpool

That really doesn’t matter. If I women decides to access the care she deserves than no man, religion or any other fucker should stop her

Exactly this. When is it anyone else’s business to control another’s choices

Maybe when the person making the choice is deciding to take another's life?

Out of interest, at what point do you believe a cell or group of cells becomes an autonomous human being?

Define autonomous please... not that I think autonomy is the pivitol point... rather the man and womans autonomy allows them to take steps in avoiding creating a unique set of cells and dna

Unless you know, they're careless or selfish.

Autonomous - "existing or capable of existing independently"

Dictionaries do exist online. "

They do... I am aware. No need to degenerate to snarky comments. I simply need to understand your definition as... some points above deviate from common sense.

I'd suggest 25 to 30 weeks. But you say autonomous so maybe later as autonomy doesn't mean reliance complicated medical care... or does it...

I mean definitions can be complicated.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"To those who oppose abortion - what circumstances do you think they're acceptable?

The mother has been r@ped

The mother has been abused by a family member

The baby is likely to die

The mother is likely to die"

I accept the need for access to abortion despite every part of my being telling me it's wrong.

My friend had one at a young age and, despite still maintaining it was the right decision at the time, it still haunts her.

Nothing very helpful to add to the debate but there you go...

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By *inky_couple2020Couple over a year ago

North West

That really doesn’t matter. If I women decides to access the care she deserves than no man, religion or any other fucker should stop her

Exactly this. When is it anyone else’s business to control another’s choices

Maybe when the person making the choice is deciding to take another's life?

Out of interest, at what point do you believe a cell or group of cells becomes an autonomous human being?

Define autonomous please... not that I think autonomy is the pivitol point... rather the man and womans autonomy allows them to take steps in avoiding creating a unique set of cells and dna

Unless you know, they're careless or selfish.

Autonomous - "existing or capable of existing independently"

Dictionaries do exist online.

They do... I am aware. No need to degenerate to snarky comments. I simply need to understand your definition as... some points above deviate from common sense.

I'd suggest 25 to 30 weeks. But you say autonomous so maybe later as autonomy doesn't mean reliance complicated medical care... or does it...

I mean definitions can be complicated.

The very earliest pregnancies are viable with massive intensive care, is 22 weeks gestation. Needing invasive 24/7 neonatal care for months is not autonomous. Most pregnancies would be unviable without neonatal intensive care before 32-33 weeks gestation. Even then, it's likely supplemental oxygen would be needed due to under developed lungs. The lungs are the last structures to form fully. Supplemental oxygen is not autonomous existence either. Such babies would die without it very quickly.

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By *ad NannaWoman over a year ago

East London

"I think it would be sadder to watch one's sister go through the rigours of giving birth (which is dangerous) and then to watch your niece/nephew die in front of your and her eyes or be born dead.

This is what will happen in this case. "

Imagine having to give birth to a baby with no skull, hold it and wait for it to die. If they let her hold it and don't claim it for research purposes.

All while recovering from the trauma of giving birth.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"To those who oppose abortion - what circumstances do you think they're acceptable?

The mother has been r@ped

The mother has been abused by a family member

The baby is likely to die

The mother is likely to die

I think possibly all of them. Certainly the latter 2 and i am also leaning toward a yes with the former 2

But you're arguing in this case (where the baby will likely die) that abortion shouldn't be allowed?

Nope. Im simply stating regarding this case that it is complicated due to the medical interpretation of the specific condition.

The thread has however devolved now into a general abortion debate

Please provide a source that states acrania is not 100% fatal.

Im not saying thats the case. But there is an ongoing medical dispute in this particular case which is debating that very thing"

Then point us to that dispute. I can't see any evidence that Acrania is not fatal to the baby.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple over a year ago

North West

"I think it would be sadder to watch one's sister go through the rigours of giving birth (which is dangerous) and then to watch your niece/nephew die in front of your and her eyes or be born dead.

This is what will happen in this case.

Imagine having to give birth to a baby with no skull, hold it and wait for it to die. If they let her hold it and don't claim it for research purposes.

All while recovering from the trauma of giving birth.

If she gets through the birth unscathed. It would likely die while she's still delivering the placenta, this is a critical time for haemorrhage. She might need stitching back together as her baby dies beside her. She might end up permanently disabled like me. With a dead baby, guaranteed to die.

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By *ice But Very NaughtyCouple over a year ago

Swansea

That really doesn’t matter. If I women decides to access the care she deserves than no man, religion or any other fucker should stop her

Exactly this. When is it anyone else’s business to control another’s choices

Maybe when the person making the choice is deciding to take another's life?

Out of interest, at what point do you believe a cell or group of cells becomes an autonomous human being?

I believe at the point of conception it becomes a life that requires protection "

Two further questions, what or when is the "point of conception" and what is it that makes that first cell any more important than any other cell? It can't simply be that it belongs to another person or you'd be equally opposed to (for example) sex which results in carpet burns as this kills many many cells of another person. So what is so special about these cells?

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By *naswingdressWoman over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

I also despair, Sophie.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I also despair, Sophie."

I’m sorry

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By *naswingdressWoman over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"I also despair, Sophie.

I’m sorry

Thank you.

That poor woman. And so many like her.

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By *ister CMan over a year ago

liverpool

That really doesn’t matter. If I women decides to access the care she deserves than no man, religion or any other fucker should stop her

Exactly this. When is it anyone else’s business to control another’s choices

Maybe when the person making the choice is deciding to take another's life?

Out of interest, at what point do you believe a cell or group of cells becomes an autonomous human being?

Define autonomous please... not that I think autonomy is the pivitol point... rather the man and womans autonomy allows them to take steps in avoiding creating a unique set of cells and dna

Unless you know, they're careless or selfish.

Autonomous - "existing or capable of existing independently"

Dictionaries do exist online.

They do... I am aware. No need to degenerate to snarky comments. I simply need to understand your definition as... some points above deviate from common sense.

I'd suggest 25 to 30 weeks. But you say autonomous so maybe later as autonomy doesn't mean reliance complicated medical care... or does it...

I mean definitions can be complicated.

Hence I questioned your definition (the parameters) of autonomous

Now you've declared the actual scope to your definition... I agree that treatment should be granted to enable the child's every chance at life.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple over a year ago

North West

That really doesn’t matter. If I women decides to access the care she deserves than no man, religion or any other fucker should stop her

Exactly this. When is it anyone else’s business to control another’s choices

Maybe when the person making the choice is deciding to take another's life?

Out of interest, at what point do you believe a cell or group of cells becomes an autonomous human being?

Define autonomous please... not that I think autonomy is the pivitol point... rather the man and womans autonomy allows them to take steps in avoiding creating a unique set of cells and dna

Unless you know, they're careless or selfish.

Autonomous - "existing or capable of existing independently"

Dictionaries do exist online.

They do... I am aware. No need to degenerate to snarky comments. I simply need to understand your definition as... some points above deviate from common sense.

I'd suggest 25 to 30 weeks. But you say autonomous so maybe later as autonomy doesn't mean reliance complicated medical care... or does it...

I mean definitions can be complicated.

Hence I questioned your definition (the parameters) of autonomous

Now you've declared the actual scope to your definition... I agree that treatment should be granted to enable the child's every chance at life. "

The baby will still die with neonatal intensive care. It has a malformation of the skull that impacts brain function. Neonatal intensive care would be futile. The baby is unviable and the woman should be able to elect abortion now.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple over a year ago

North West

Also I wouldn't say autonomous existence is the use of neonatal intensive care. That's the very epitome of NOT autonomous.

Autonomous means you put the baby down, don't touch it, and its body systems function completely independently of medical intervention.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It really amazed me how black and white this discussion has become. The circumstances that the OP has described are very unique, and under these circumstances there is no question that the woman should be the only one that chooses the outcome...however the story is linked to a bigger more complicated discussion, which is the ethics of abortion. I rarely get involved in such a conversation, because I don't have a concrete answer to the question. I truly believe that women should have autonomy (in any and every aspect of their life) when it comes to their body and I support that... however I tell you this, when my sister was 5 months pregnant I remember placing my hand on her belly and feeling my now 9 year old nephew, and I must admit that was one of the few moments in my adult life that made me emotional, because I felt him move, I felt life , I felt his life, and when I think that in England the latest you can have an abortion is 23 weeks (which is 5.2 months), that makes me sad. Listen I know that all pregnancies are different and complications might appear and sometimes a 5 month pregnancy has to be aborted to save the life of the mother, I get that , and I wouldn't stand against it...but it still would make me sad, and if it makes me sad, it makes me question the ethics of it. Maybe it's a necessary evil in our society (as some have said) or maybe it's just necessary ...I truly do not know, and I will probably never have a concrete opinion about this topic, maybe I'm not even intelligent enough to talk about it, but I am emotionally intelligent enough to understand the complexity of the ethics of abortion... and it's never as black and white as some would like it to be ."

I think this particular case is black and white. Abortion isn't. I doubt all on this thread would agree on the timing of late abortions for example.

If a wife wanted an abortion but the husband didn't.

Or If she aborted without his knowledge.

Would we all agree on whether it's ethical for a woman to have multiple abortions because of poor contraception?

There will be many points on which we diverge.

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By *ister CMan over a year ago

liverpool

That really doesn’t matter. If I women decides to access the care she deserves than no man, religion or any other fucker should stop her

Exactly this. When is it anyone else’s business to control another’s choices

Maybe when the person making the choice is deciding to take another's life?

Out of interest, at what point do you believe a cell or group of cells becomes an autonomous human being?

Define autonomous please... not that I think autonomy is the pivitol point... rather the man and womans autonomy allows them to take steps in avoiding creating a unique set of cells and dna

Unless you know, they're careless or selfish.

Autonomous - "existing or capable of existing independently"

Dictionaries do exist online.

They do... I am aware. No need to degenerate to snarky comments. I simply need to understand your definition as... some points above deviate from common sense.

I'd suggest 25 to 30 weeks. But you say autonomous so maybe later as autonomy doesn't mean reliance complicated medical care... or does it...

I mean definitions can be complicated.

Hence I questioned your definition (the parameters) of autonomous

Now you've declared the actual scope to your definition... I agree that treatment should be granted to enable the child's every chance at life.

Oh hun am litterally speaking in general terms on the topic of abortion.

Can you have a quick look further up at my original comment on the case to which you are referring

I'll be back after the fight

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

A reply to the comment regarding the 24 week limit. The number of abortions carried out so close to this gestation period are miniscule, and usually because these tend to be wanted pregnancies where they have discovered the pregnancy would not be viable. (much like the lady in this article)

The stats are there to read online.

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/abortion-statistics-for-england-and-wales-2020/abortion-statistics-england-and-wales-2020

'The proportion of abortions that are performed at under 10 weeks has continued to increase since 2010. In 2020, 88% of abortions were performed under 10 weeks, increasing from 82% in 2019 and 77% in 2010. In comparison, abortions performed at 10-12 weeks decreased from 9% in 2019 to 6% in 2020. The percentage performed at 20 weeks and over decreased from 2% in 2019 to 1% in 2020.'

What do the people against abortion plan to do with all the extra children born to families who cannot look after them?

No birth control is 100% effective.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

That really doesn’t matter. If I women decides to access the care she deserves than no man, religion or any other fucker should stop her

Exactly this. When is it anyone else’s business to control another’s choices

Maybe when the person making the choice is deciding to take another's life?

Out of interest, at what point do you believe a cell or group of cells becomes an autonomous human being?

Define autonomous please... not that I think autonomy is the pivitol point... rather the man and womans autonomy allows them to take steps in avoiding creating a unique set of cells and dna

Unless you know, they're careless or selfish.

Autonomous - "existing or capable of existing independently"

Dictionaries do exist online.

They do... I am aware. No need to degenerate to snarky comments. I simply need to understand your definition as... some points above deviate from common sense.

I'd suggest 25 to 30 weeks. But you say autonomous so maybe later as autonomy doesn't mean reliance complicated medical care... or does it...

I mean definitions can be complicated.

Hence I questioned your definition (the parameters) of autonomous

Now you've declared the actual scope to your definition... I agree that treatment should be granted to enable the child's every chance at life.

Oh hun am litterally speaking in general terms on the topic of abortion.

Can you have a quick look further up at my original comment on the case to which you are referring

I'll be back after the fight

Why so Patronising?

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By *ad NannaWoman over a year ago

East London

That really doesn’t matter. If I women decides to access the care she deserves than no man, religion or any other fucker should stop her

Exactly this. When is it anyone else’s business to control another’s choices

Maybe when the person making the choice is deciding to take another's life?

Out of interest, at what point do you believe a cell or group of cells becomes an autonomous human being?

Define autonomous please... not that I think autonomy is the pivitol point... rather the man and womans autonomy allows them to take steps in avoiding creating a unique set of cells and dna

Unless you know, they're careless or selfish.

Autonomous - "existing or capable of existing independently"

Dictionaries do exist online.

They do... I am aware. No need to degenerate to snarky comments. I simply need to understand your definition as... some points above deviate from common sense.

I'd suggest 25 to 30 weeks. But you say autonomous so maybe later as autonomy doesn't mean reliance complicated medical care... or does it...

I mean definitions can be complicated.

Hence I questioned your definition (the parameters) of autonomous

Now you've declared the actual scope to your definition... I agree that treatment should be granted to enable the child's every chance at life.

Oh hun am litterally speaking in general terms on the topic of abortion.

Can you have a quick look further up at my original comment on the case to which you are referring

I'll be back after the fight

The minute you rolled your eyes you lost.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple over a year ago

North West

Anyone thinking I'm some p

igate aborter of babies couldn't be further from the truth, btw. I was pregnant at 16. Abortion was an option presented to me but I couldn't go ahead. I don't know if I could ever have an abortion myself. But I'll fight tooth and nail for the option to remain for other women and I'll hold my friend's hand at the abortion clinic, if she wishes.

My son is now 20 and it's fair to say my decision to continue with that pregnancy has been detrimental on my life in many ways. But it is what it is and I wouldn't go back and make a different choice.

I'm not debating the topic of viability of foetuses because it is empirically evidenced in the medical literature.

Acrania IS a fatal condition and there is absolutely no benefit to anyone to force the pregnancy to continue to delivery/term. All you do there is create an expensive situation for the mother (giving birth is not free at point of access in USA) and expose her to the incredible risks of giving birth for absolutely no reason.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple over a year ago

North West

*pr o f l igate

FFS

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Anyone thinking I'm some p

I'm not debating the topic of viability of foetuses because it is empirically evidenced in the medical literature.

I had an abortion at 15, absolutely my choice. I felt I wasn't equipped at all to have a child. My mum kicked me out of the house upon my disclosure I was pregnant. My best friends dad took me to the hospital and picked me up after. I was absolutely terrified, my partner at the time hung up on me when I rang him and said I wasn't sure I wanted to go ahead at the hospital... Like an absolute mug I stayed with him

and when I fell pregnant at 18, I said I wanted to continue the pregnancy even if going it alone. Which I did, and my daughter/grandkiddos are my world! But it was tough I'll admit. And I absolutely do not regret my earlier abortion as a child having a child I had literally nothing to give to that baby, and I have zero regrets... At a later stage I went on to attend university, and carve out a life for us both as a lone mum, and it's been one hell of a ride! But I love my daughter more than anything... At the same time I definitely feel it's a woman body/choice. I'm an adoptee as the result of an assault on a teenager, and that's pretty rough on both myself/bio mum.. I mean I wouldn't be here... But I feel I'm a lot for her to live with as much as we get on

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Umm, I probably sound a bit mental actually!

Hopefully I'm not

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Umm, I probably sound a bit mental actually!

Hopefully I'm not

You’re not. Thank you for sharing and lots of love and strength

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Anyone thinking I'm some p

I'm not debating the topic of viability of foetuses because it is empirically evidenced in the medical literature.

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By *ice But Very NaughtyCouple over a year ago

Swansea

I think this particular case is black and white. Abortion isn't. I doubt all on this thread would agree on the timing of late abortions for example.

If a wife wanted an abortion but the husband didn't.

Or If she aborted without his knowledge.

Would we all agree on whether it's ethical for a woman to have multiple abortions because of poor contraception?

There will be many points on which we diverge. "

Absolutely this. Recognising this obvious fact is the first step towards understanding each other. What I really struggle with is the way all sides in this debate ignore the fact that there is no single point in time that marks any change. Pregnancy is a constantly changing process and the point where each individual draws a line is only a point on that line, it has no more or less intrinsic value than any other point. It's value only comes from weighing up a range of conflicting moral standpoints.

Once we realise there is a process, we all instinctively have a point in that process we feel is the "correct point" and that there is no definitive way to prove that this point is different to one a second before or after we start to realise that our strong emotional response isn't rational, that the only solution is to *agree* an externally defined point and that this can only be done by consensus - hence discussions like these being important to understand each other rather than sling mud.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple over a year ago

North West

"Anyone thinking I'm some p

I'm not debating the topic of viability of foetuses because it is empirically evidenced in the medical literature.

Absolutely totally and utterly understand all of the above. You made a decision you believed (and continue to believe) was right for you. I wouldn't change my decision either but I know I've missed out on a lot through being a mum since I was 16.

My son is a great guy and I love him to bits too

There's a lot to be said for the "walk*¹ a mile in a man's*² shoes"

*¹ - other forms of locomotion are available

*² - other genders are available

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By *alandNitaCouple over a year ago

Scunthorpe

"I apologise for my poor wording. I find this so very upsetting. "

It is totally ridiculous

Cal

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Anyone thinking I'm some p

I'm not debating the topic of viability of foetuses because it is empirically evidenced in the medical literature.

My son is a great guy and I love him to bits too

There's a lot to be said for the "walk*¹ a mile in a man's*² shoes"

*¹ - other forms of locomotion are available

*² - other genders are available "

Absolutely! And this is it isn't it? The *bigger picture* based upon personal circumstances at that point in women's lives? I sadly think that so many looking in from the outside never grasp that

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

In regards to the original post,my mum had a late abortion as they found the baby had this condition,they warned if she went to term it could kill her and the baby wouldn't survive...this was in the 80s,so why we are so backward about it now is beyond me.

In terms of having abortions in general, I had one in early 20s because the father of the baby didn't want it and it wasn't the right time. I believe Women should have the right to terminate a pregnancy they neither want or can cope with.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"In regards to the original post,my mum had a late abortion as they found the baby had this condition,they warned if she went to term it could kill her and the baby wouldn't survive...this was in the 80s,so why we are so backward about it now is beyond me.

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By *ister CMan over a year ago

liverpool

That really doesn’t matter. If I women decides to access the care she deserves than no man, religion or any other fucker should stop her

Exactly this. When is it anyone else’s business to control another’s choices

Maybe when the person making the choice is deciding to take another's life?

Out of interest, at what point do you believe a cell or group of cells becomes an autonomous human being?

Define autonomous please... not that I think autonomy is the pivitol point... rather the man and womans autonomy allows them to take steps in avoiding creating a unique set of cells and dna

Unless you know, they're careless or selfish.

Autonomous - "existing or capable of existing independently"

Dictionaries do exist online.

They do... I am aware. No need to degenerate to snarky comments. I simply need to understand your definition as... some points above deviate from common sense.

I'd suggest 25 to 30 weeks. But you say autonomous so maybe later as autonomy doesn't mean reliance complicated medical care... or does it...

I mean definitions can be complicated.

Hence I questioned your definition (the parameters) of autonomous

Now you've declared the actual scope to your definition... I agree that treatment should be granted to enable the child's every chance at life.

Oh hun am litterally speaking in general terms on the topic of abortion.

Can you have a quick look further up at my original comment on the case to which you are referring

I'll be back after the fight

The minute you rolled your eyes you lost."

If you say so dear

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

There's such a contrast here between affecting stories of women and the decisions they've had to make ....and those who just see it as a battle.

I had an abortion in my twenties. Not going into the reasons, but I struggled with severe depression afterwards. I went on to have kids with the same guy. But if I'd had that baby, I wonder if I'd ever have left my narcissistic, gaslighting twat of an ex. So I don't regret it and I wish for other women to make their own decisions about the trajectory of their lives.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

That really doesn’t matter. If I women decides to access the care she deserves than no man, religion or any other fucker should stop her

Exactly this. When is it anyone else’s business to control another’s choices

Maybe when the person making the choice is deciding to take another's life?

Out of interest, at what point do you believe a cell or group of cells becomes an autonomous human being?

Define autonomous please... not that I think autonomy is the pivitol point... rather the man and womans autonomy allows them to take steps in avoiding creating a unique set of cells and dna

Unless you know, they're careless or selfish.

Autonomous - "existing or capable of existing independently"

Dictionaries do exist online.

They do... I am aware. No need to degenerate to snarky comments. I simply need to understand your definition as... some points above deviate from common sense.

I'd suggest 25 to 30 weeks. But you say autonomous so maybe later as autonomy doesn't mean reliance complicated medical care... or does it...

I mean definitions can be complicated.

Hence I questioned your definition (the parameters) of autonomous

Now you've declared the actual scope to your definition... I agree that treatment should be granted to enable the child's every chance at life.

Oh hun am litterally speaking in general terms on the topic of abortion.

Can you have a quick look further up at my original comment on the case to which you are referring

I'll be back after the fight

The minute you rolled your eyes you lost.

If you say so dear "

What are your opinions on the subject? Is there a religious connotation to your thoughts?

I'm actually interested in what you think, everyone is entitled to an opinion.

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By *ister CMan over a year ago

liverpool

That really doesn’t matter. If I women decides to access the care she deserves than no man, religion or any other fucker should stop her

Exactly this. When is it anyone else’s business to control another’s choices

Maybe when the person making the choice is deciding to take another's life?

Out of interest, at what point do you believe a cell or group of cells becomes an autonomous human being?

Define autonomous please... not that I think autonomy is the pivitol point... rather the man and womans autonomy allows them to take steps in avoiding creating a unique set of cells and dna

Unless you know, they're careless or selfish.

Autonomous - "existing or capable of existing independently"

Dictionaries do exist online.

They do... I am aware. No need to degenerate to snarky comments. I simply need to understand your definition as... some points above deviate from common sense.

I'd suggest 25 to 30 weeks. But you say autonomous so maybe later as autonomy doesn't mean reliance complicated medical care... or does it...

I mean definitions can be complicated.

Hence I questioned your definition (the parameters) of autonomous

Now you've declared the actual scope to your definition... I agree that treatment should be granted to enable the child's every chance at life.

Oh hun am litterally speaking in general terms on the topic of abortion.

Can you have a quick look further up at my original comment on the case to which you are referring

I'll be back after the fight

The minute you rolled your eyes you lost.

If you say so dear

What are your opinions on the subject? Is there a religious connotation to your thoughts?

I'm actually interested in what you think, everyone is entitled to an opinion. "

Well I made my opinion clear above in each of my points. I havent deviated.

I spoke on the specific subject of the op.

Then spoke further on abortion.

Is there something else I need to allude to?

And nope no religious connotation for me.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"There's such a contrast here between affecting stories of women and the decisions they've had to make ....and those who just see it as a battle.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

That's a horrible thing to read. I feel for her, I really do.

Clearly these people who have put these laws in have not had a good conversation with a geneticist.

Everyone has 46 chromosomes

They have to match up to form a healthy baby.

If they miss or duplicate or don't copy properly that's 138 chances of the baby not developing normally.

Add the number of genetic issues, health problems with the mother or father, and a while host of other issues you end up with a ridiculously high number of chances of things not going how they are expected to.

It's a wonder any of us actually make it.

There's a major difference between abortion and abortion for medical reasons. It's easy for a man to disagree with a woman when he doesn't actually have to experience it himself or walk into the theatre and lay his body down for it all. If the people against abortion think a woman makes that decision lightly then they are massively wrong and have no clue exactly how truly horrible it all is. Even when the baby is not deemed viable, do you think that making that decision is easy? I can tell you it really isn't, and it is without a doubt one of the hardest things a woman can ever go through. And it will affect her for life.

But I'll ask you this.

Does the want for a child justify bringing a life into the world that would suffer painfully, perhaps with ongoing surgeries, unable to lead a normal life, maybe fed through tubes and highly medicated and have a reduced quality if not massively complicated life ahead them? Is it the kind thing to put someone through that suffering just so you can feel good about not taking their life?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The lord God made them all.

Amen.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"That's a horrible thing to read. I feel for her, I really do.

Clearly these people who have put these laws in have not had a good conversation with a geneticist.

Everyone has 46 chromosomes

They have to match up to form a healthy baby.

If they miss or duplicate or don't copy properly that's 138 chances of the baby not developing normally.

It's a wonder any of us actually make it.

But I'll ask you this.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

This isn't about religious beliefs, it is about controlling women.

But it really isn't though

And its clear there is an error in her case and dispensation is allowed if you read the law

But let's ignore all that as these terrible circumstance allow outrage

I know. Some people really makes fools of themselves in here with their outrage

Why don't you go back to the thread you started earlier and answer some of the questions on that.

Rarr rarr rarr rarr anger anger anger

I'm angry and so should everybody B angry that a poor woman has been put in this position.

If youd actually bother your arse and research the issue at hand you'd find its far more complicated then then OP made it out to be.

So as always, there is more than meets the eye"

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

This isn't about religious beliefs, it is about controlling women.

But it really isn't though

And its clear there is an error in her case and dispensation is allowed if you read the law

But let's ignore all that as these terrible circumstance allow outrage

I know. Some people really makes fools of themselves in here with their outrage

Why don't you go back to the thread you started earlier and answer some of the questions on that.

Rarr rarr rarr rarr anger anger anger

I'm angry and so should everybody B angry that a poor woman has been put in this position.

If youd actually bother your arse and research the issue at hand you'd find its far more complicated then then OP made it out to be.

So as always, there is more than meets the eye

So just because doctors are arguing whether it is "immediately fatal" makes it right?

Miss S

Well yes, that is the law of the state in question. The intention is to protect all the unborn where possible, unless not viable"

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

That really doesn’t matter. If I women decides to access the care she deserves than no man, religion or any other fucker should stop her

Exactly this. When is it anyone else’s business to control another’s choices

Maybe when the person making the choice is deciding to take another's life? "

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By *acey_RedWoman over a year ago

Liverpool

Yes, people making tgese decisions often are so ignorant to the full consequences of it. It literally took a woman and both her unborn twins dying in Ireland for them to finally change the law. She wasn't even actively seeking a termination, just the procedure that could have saved her may have resulted in her losing her remaining twin so the doctors would have been performing an illegal procedure if they did it.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

That really doesn’t matter. If I women decides to access the care she deserves than no man, religion or any other fucker should stop her

Exactly this. When is it anyone else’s business to control another’s choices

Maybe when the person making the choice is deciding to take another's life?

Not quoting the above poster - just the previous comment...

So a woman then? The issue is a woman deciding the implications of her own body carrying another person within her body? And men get to have any say in this how? Because as far as I can see it's not their body, it is not them carrying a child, giving birth to a child, in a lot of cases raising that child, nor frickin paying for them either... So frankly men do not get to make that decision in my humble opinion. When they can give birth they can do as they please! But until that time they can bog off!

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By *ananaman41Man over a year ago

Dublin

That really doesn’t matter. If I women decides to access the care she deserves than no man, religion or any other fucker should stop her

Exactly this. When is it anyone else’s business to control another’s choices

Maybe when the person making the choice is deciding to take another's life?

Not quoting the above poster - just the previous comment...

You seem to have some underlying issues with men. Probably worth addressing those first so you can then address this subject-matter objectively

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

That really doesn’t matter. If I women decides to access the care she deserves than no man, religion or any other fucker should stop her

Exactly this. When is it anyone else’s business to control another’s choices

Maybe when the person making the choice is deciding to take another's life?

Not quoting the above poster - just the previous comment...

But isn't this the whole point? Man fucks woman, woman gets pregnant, man walks away. Woman forced to keep the child. Crap healthcare system, crap childcare, crap wages. Women and children back in the caves...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Yes, people making tgese decisions often are so ignorant to the full consequences of it. It literally took a woman and both her unborn twins dying in Ireland for them to finally change the law. She wasn't even actively seeking a termination, just the procedure that could have saved her may have resulted in her losing her remaining twin so the doctors would have been performing an illegal procedure if they did it."

When I was around 12 my dad had a colleagues daughter come stay for a 'holiday', a clearly very traumatised teenage girl who had been flown across to the UK to stay with a completely unknown to her random adult male, so she could have an abortion, and then be flown home againn... Its beyond messed up

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman over a year ago

evesham

Absolutely. Animals do it all the time. Either by reabsorbing the foetus or by eating the babies (see hamsters! Experienced this in my work experience at school!). Now it seems women in some countries have less rights than rodents

Of course that's a slightly facetious arguments bit, still.

The same people forcing women to have babies will be the same people bitching and moaning about women not looking after children to their standards or taking money from state welfare etc.

Let's not forget that one decrepit law maker in the state's thought there was a way to take eptopic pregnancy to term. Or that you could somehow take the foetuses out and re-implant them.

They also want to force r victims to carry a child to term. If they have an abortion the family of the attacker can sue the woman.

America is absolutely fucked.

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By *acey_RedWoman over a year ago

Liverpool

That really doesn’t matter. If I women decides to access the care she deserves than no man, religion or any other fucker should stop her

Exactly this. When is it anyone else’s business to control another’s choices

Maybe when the person making the choice is deciding to take another's life?

A unique cluster of cells as unique as anyone here... specifically with its own unique dna profile. "

Do you know what else contains DNA? Bacteria and many viruses. Do we need to be willing hosts to all of them too?

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman over a year ago

evesham

That really doesn’t matter. If I women decides to access the care she deserves than no man, religion or any other fucker should stop her

Exactly this. When is it anyone else’s business to control another’s choices

Maybe when the person making the choice is deciding to take another's life?

A unique cluster of cells as unique as anyone here... specifically with its own unique dna profile.

A unique cluster of cells that, up to a point, cannot sustain life on it's own. Cannot breathe, has no heartbeat, cannot consume life giving nutrients.

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By *annaBeStrongMan over a year ago

As a guy that would hate to accidently knock someone up, and then without my permission decide to keep the baby, then get the state to force me to pay for it for 18 years

I full support abortion.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

That really doesn’t matter. If I women decides to access the care she deserves than no man, religion or any other fucker should stop her

Exactly this. When is it anyone else’s business to control another’s choices

Maybe when the person making the choice is deciding to take another's life?

Not quoting the above poster - just the previous comment...

You seem to have some underlying issues with men. Probably worth addressing those first so you can then address this subject-matter objectively "

Nope, no issue with men at all.. You seem to have an issue with women having rights to their own bodies though...why is that?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It makes me very scared and sad that there are people out there that actually truly believe women should have their choice taken away! The lack of empathy here is heartbreaking. You are not pro life just anti choice.

It’s reading threads like this one that make me so happy that women are an option for me

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By *annaBeStrongMan over a year ago

That really doesn’t matter. If I women decides to access the care she deserves than no man, religion or any other fucker should stop her

Exactly this. When is it anyone else’s business to control another’s choices

Maybe when the person making the choice is deciding to take another's life?

Not quoting the above poster - just the previous comment...

You seem to have some underlying issues with men. Probably worth addressing those first so you can then address this subject-matter objectively

Nope, no issue with men at all.. You seem to have an issue with women having rights to their own bodies though...why is that?

It is an odd position you take though

“Men shouldn’t have any fucking opinion on this….. unless it’s supporting my opinion”

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

That really doesn’t matter. If I women decides to access the care she deserves than no man, religion or any other fucker should stop her

Exactly this. When is it anyone else’s business to control another’s choices

Maybe when the person making the choice is deciding to take another's life?

Not quoting the above poster - just the previous comment...

You seem to have some underlying issues with men. Probably worth addressing those first so you can then address this subject-matter objectively

Nope, no issue with men at all.. You seem to have an issue with women having rights to their own bodies though...why is that?

It is an odd position you take though

“Men shouldn’t have any fucking opinion on this….. unless it’s supporting my opinion”"

Yep! When you can give birth to a person and the physical trauma that can cause?... Feel free to come back to me to state your case

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By *ananaman41Man over a year ago

Dublin

That really doesn’t matter. If I women decides to access the care she deserves than no man, religion or any other fucker should stop her

Exactly this. When is it anyone else’s business to control another’s choices

Maybe when the person making the choice is deciding to take another's life?

Not quoting the above poster - just the previous comment...

You seem to have some underlying issues with men. Probably worth addressing those first so you can then address this subject-matter objectively

Nope, no issue with men at all.. You seem to have an issue with women having rights to their own bodies though...why is that?

It is an odd position you take though

“Men shouldn’t have any fucking opinion on this….. unless it’s supporting my opinion”"

This is it. They use men as the lightning rod here. There are millions of women around the world who are against abortion too.

Can their opiniom be accepted so?

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By *annaBeStrongMan over a year ago

That really doesn’t matter. If I women decides to access the care she deserves than no man, religion or any other fucker should stop her

Exactly this. When is it anyone else’s business to control another’s choices

Maybe when the person making the choice is deciding to take another's life?

Not quoting the above poster - just the previous comment...

You seem to have some underlying issues with men. Probably worth addressing those first so you can then address this subject-matter objectively

Nope, no issue with men at all.. You seem to have an issue with women having rights to their own bodies though...why is that?

It is an odd position you take though

“Men shouldn’t have any fucking opinion on this….. unless it’s supporting my opinion”

Yep! When you can give birth to a person and the physical trauma that can cause?... Feel free to come back to me to state your case

So I’m in support of abortion, but I should keep my mouth closed and be neutral because in a gut

Fair enough. Looks like I’m neutral.

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By *acey_RedWoman over a year ago

Liverpool

"So, again apologies I've had wine.

What I've gathered from this thread and previous ones this evening is that some people are just born a dickhead.

That aside, nobody has the right to tell anyone else what to do with their body.

Not your body, not your fucking business.

Does a woman have a right to make you have a vasectomy?

What 3rd party life is involved in a vasectomy?

Every sperm is sacred. Do not spill your seed upon the ground.

Nothing has been conceived so nothing is being terminated in a vasectomy. I know you were only being facetious but im reposnding anyway

The Bible quite literally states "do not spill your seed on the ground". This has been used by the Catholic church to ban contraception, dissuade masturbation and a bunch of other oppression.

By that logic, why is it okay to sever the vas deferens? Sperm are still being synthesised in the millions every day but will have no route out and will die in the testes.

You seem to be wandering off into the a debate about contraception now. I have no issue with contraception"

That's interesting. What about the morning after pill? What about an IUD which is can prevent the implantation of a potentially already fertilised egg?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

That really doesn’t matter. If I women decides to access the care she deserves than no man, religion or any other fucker should stop her

Exactly this. When is it anyone else’s business to control another’s choices

Maybe when the person making the choice is deciding to take another's life?

Not quoting the above poster - just the previous comment...

You seem to have some underlying issues with men. Probably worth addressing those first so you can then address this subject-matter objectively

Nope, no issue with men at all.. You seem to have an issue with women having rights to their own bodies though...why is that?

It is an odd position you take though

“Men shouldn’t have any fucking opinion on this….. unless it’s supporting my opinion”

Yep! When you can give birth to a person and the physical trauma that can cause?... Feel free to come back to me to state your case

So I’m in support of abortion, but I should keep my mouth closed and be neutral because in a gut

Fair enough. Looks like I’m neutral. "

Cool

you still don't own a working womb... So you know your vote is valid and all that... But no, shouldn't really count

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By *ananaman41Man over a year ago

Dublin

"So, again apologies I've had wine.

What I've gathered from this thread and previous ones this evening is that some people are just born a dickhead.

That aside, nobody has the right to tell anyone else what to do with their body.

Not your body, not your fucking business.

Does a woman have a right to make you have a vasectomy?

What 3rd party life is involved in a vasectomy?

Every sperm is sacred. Do not spill your seed upon the ground.

Nothing has been conceived so nothing is being terminated in a vasectomy. I know you were only being facetious but im reposnding anyway

The Bible quite literally states "do not spill your seed on the ground". This has been used by the Catholic church to ban contraception, dissuade masturbation and a bunch of other oppression.

By that logic, why is it okay to sever the vas deferens? Sperm are still being synthesised in the millions every day but will have no route out and will die in the testes.

You seem to be wandering off into the a debate about contraception now. I have no issue with contraception

That's interesting. What about the morning after pill? What about an IUD which is can prevent the implantation of a potentially already fertilised egg? "

As i said, i have no issue with contraception. My issue is with abortion, exvept in certain situations

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By *annaBeStrongMan over a year ago

That really doesn’t matter. If I women decides to access the care she deserves than no man, religion or any other fucker should stop her

Exactly this. When is it anyone else’s business to control another’s choices

Maybe when the person making the choice is deciding to take another's life?

Not quoting the above poster - just the previous comment...

You seem to have some underlying issues with men. Probably worth addressing those first so you can then address this subject-matter objectively

Nope, no issue with men at all.. You seem to have an issue with women having rights to their own bodies though...why is that?

It is an odd position you take though

“Men shouldn’t have any fucking opinion on this….. unless it’s supporting my opinion”

Yep! When you can give birth to a person and the physical trauma that can cause?... Feel free to come back to me to state your case

So I’m in support of abortion, but I should keep my mouth closed and be neutral because in a gut

Fair enough. Looks like I’m neutral.

Cool

you still don't own a working womb... So you know your vote is valid and all that... But no, shouldn't really count "

But if there was a vote, and I’d vote in support, now I won’t because I’m neutral right?

And if I wanna think further, men have zero say in the outcome of a pregnancy. So I might even vote against

It’s a shame this gets turned into men vs women when it’s an opinion that effects both people, to different degrees obviously, but it does effect both

This “no womb no opinion” only furthers the divide

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By *ananaman41Man over a year ago

Dublin

That really doesn’t matter. If I women decides to access the care she deserves than no man, religion or any other fucker should stop her

Exactly this. When is it anyone else’s business to control another’s choices

Maybe when the person making the choice is deciding to take another's life?

Not quoting the above poster - just the previous comment...

You seem to have some underlying issues with men. Probably worth addressing those first so you can then address this subject-matter objectively

Nope, no issue with men at all.. You seem to have an issue with women having rights to their own bodies though...why is that?

It is an odd position you take though

“Men shouldn’t have any fucking opinion on this….. unless it’s supporting my opinion”

Yep! When you can give birth to a person and the physical trauma that can cause?... Feel free to come back to me to state your case

So I’m in support of abortion, but I should keep my mouth closed and be neutral because in a gut

Fair enough. Looks like I’m neutral.

Cool

you still don't own a working womb... So you know your vote is valid and all that... But no, shouldn't really count "

And the mask slips...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

That really doesn’t matter. If I women decides to access the care she deserves than no man, religion or any other fucker should stop her

Exactly this. When is it anyone else’s business to control another’s choices

Maybe when the person making the choice is deciding to take another's life?

Not quoting the above poster - just the previous comment...

You seem to have some underlying issues with men. Probably worth addressing those first so you can then address this subject-matter objectively

Nope, no issue with men at all.. You seem to have an issue with women having rights to their own bodies though...why is that?

It is an odd position you take though

“Men shouldn’t have any fucking opinion on this….. unless it’s supporting my opinion”

Yep! When you can give birth to a person and the physical trauma that can cause?... Feel free to come back to me to state your case

So I’m in support of abortion, but I should keep my mouth closed and be neutral because in a gut

Fair enough. Looks like I’m neutral.

Cool

you still don't own a working womb... So you know your vote is valid and all that... But no, shouldn't really count

And the mask slips..."

Down to my vagina?... No mask here. Do I have an issue with men declaring their ownership of mine and other women's reproductive organs? Hell yes, you'd better believe I do pal

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By *ananaman41Man over a year ago

Dublin

That really doesn’t matter. If I women decides to access the care she deserves than no man, religion or any other fucker should stop her

Exactly this. When is it anyone else’s business to control another’s choices

Maybe when the person making the choice is deciding to take another's life?

Not quoting the above poster - just the previous comment...

You seem to have some underlying issues with men. Probably worth addressing those first so you can then address this subject-matter objectively

Nope, no issue with men at all.. You seem to have an issue with women having rights to their own bodies though...why is that?

It is an odd position you take though

“Men shouldn’t have any fucking opinion on this….. unless it’s supporting my opinion”

Yep! When you can give birth to a person and the physical trauma that can cause?... Feel free to come back to me to state your case

So I’m in support of abortion, but I should keep my mouth closed and be neutral because in a gut

Fair enough. Looks like I’m neutral.

Cool

you still don't own a working womb... So you know your vote is valid and all that... But no, shouldn't really count

And the mask slips...

Down to my vagina?... No mask here. Do I have an issue with men declaring their ownership of mine and other women's reproductive organs? Hell yes, you'd better believe I do pal

Nobody is declaraing ownership. Us men and women are merely expressing an opinion and in many cases a constitutional right to vote on an issue that involves a 3rd party which cant vote for itself

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *annaBeStrongMan over a year ago

That really doesn’t matter. If I women decides to access the care she deserves than no man, religion or any other fucker should stop her

Exactly this. When is it anyone else’s business to control another’s choices

Maybe when the person making the choice is deciding to take another's life?

Not quoting the above poster - just the previous comment...

You seem to have some underlying issues with men. Probably worth addressing those first so you can then address this subject-matter objectively

Nope, no issue with men at all.. You seem to have an issue with women having rights to their own bodies though...why is that?

It is an odd position you take though

“Men shouldn’t have any fucking opinion on this….. unless it’s supporting my opinion”

Yep! When you can give birth to a person and the physical trauma that can cause?... Feel free to come back to me to state your case

So I’m in support of abortion, but I should keep my mouth closed and be neutral because in a gut

Fair enough. Looks like I’m neutral.

Cool

you still don't own a working womb... So you know your vote is valid and all that... But no, shouldn't really count

And the mask slips...

Down to my vagina?... No mask here. Do I have an issue with men declaring their ownership of mine and other women's reproductive organs? Hell yes, you'd better believe I do pal

Nobody is declaraing ownership. Us men and women are merely expressing an opinion and in many cases a constitutional right to vote on an issue that involves a 3rd party which cant vote for itself"

The better question is why only men?

I’m assuming then she’s fine if women decided to ban abortion and she’d support it? Because it’s a woman claiming it?

They wanna make it about men vs women as if all men are against it and all women are in supporg

If they were actually educated they’d see it’s just against abortion vs support abortion. No gender needed.

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By *ananaman41Man over a year ago

Dublin

That really doesn’t matter. If I women decides to access the care she deserves than no man, religion or any other fucker should stop her

Exactly this. When is it anyone else’s business to control another’s choices

Maybe when the person making the choice is deciding to take another's life?

Not quoting the above poster - just the previous comment...

You seem to have some underlying issues with men. Probably worth addressing those first so you can then address this subject-matter objectively

Nope, no issue with men at all.. You seem to have an issue with women having rights to their own bodies though...why is that?

It is an odd position you take though

“Men shouldn’t have any fucking opinion on this….. unless it’s supporting my opinion”

Yep! When you can give birth to a person and the physical trauma that can cause?... Feel free to come back to me to state your case

So I’m in support of abortion, but I should keep my mouth closed and be neutral because in a gut

Fair enough. Looks like I’m neutral.

Cool

you still don't own a working womb... So you know your vote is valid and all that... But no, shouldn't really count

And the mask slips...

Down to my vagina?... No mask here. Do I have an issue with men declaring their ownership of mine and other women's reproductive organs? Hell yes, you'd better believe I do pal

Nobody is declaraing ownership. Us men and women are merely expressing an opinion and in many cases a constitutional right to vote on an issue that involves a 3rd party which cant vote for itself

The better question is why only men?

I’m assuming then she’s fine if women decided to ban abortion and she’d support it? Because it’s a woman claiming it?

They wanna make it about men vs women as if all men are against it and all women are in supporg

If they were actually educated they’d see it’s just against abortion vs support abortion. No gender needed. "

And i brought that up in one of my comments a few mins ago, but she never addressed that funnily enough

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *annaBeStrongMan over a year ago

That really doesn’t matter. If I women decides to access the care she deserves than no man, religion or any other fucker should stop her

Exactly this. When is it anyone else’s business to control another’s choices

Maybe when the person making the choice is deciding to take another's life?

Not quoting the above poster - just the previous comment...

You seem to have some underlying issues with men. Probably worth addressing those first so you can then address this subject-matter objectively

Nope, no issue with men at all.. You seem to have an issue with women having rights to their own bodies though...why is that?

It is an odd position you take though

“Men shouldn’t have any fucking opinion on this….. unless it’s supporting my opinion”

Yep! When you can give birth to a person and the physical trauma that can cause?... Feel free to come back to me to state your case

So I’m in support of abortion, but I should keep my mouth closed and be neutral because in a gut

Fair enough. Looks like I’m neutral.

Cool

you still don't own a working womb... So you know your vote is valid and all that... But no, shouldn't really count

And the mask slips...

Down to my vagina?... No mask here. Do I have an issue with men declaring their ownership of mine and other women's reproductive organs? Hell yes, you'd better believe I do pal

Nobody is declaraing ownership. Us men and women are merely expressing an opinion and in many cases a constitutional right to vote on an issue that involves a 3rd party which cant vote for itself

The better question is why only men?

I’m assuming then she’s fine if women decided to ban abortion and she’d support it? Because it’s a woman claiming it?

They wanna make it about men vs women as if all men are against it and all women are in supporg

If they were actually educated they’d see it’s just against abortion vs support abortion. No gender needed.

And i brought that up in one of my comments a few mins ago, but she never addressed that funnily enough"

More interested in pushing the “men = bad” agenda then actually facing the issue at hand

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"A woman in Louisiana is carrying a foetus without a skull. The state outlaws abortion, though has a permitted list of conditions that permit exemption from the law. This condition isn't included in that list. Her hospital has refused to do the abortion and the condition is uniformly fatal. If born, the baby may survive a few minutes or hours.

Humanity sinks to ever worse lows.

Absolutely horrific for the woman and the baby. I’m very pro choice no matter the circumstances. Women should have the right to abortion no matter what. Why prolong this pregnancy if the end result is suffering and death? Why let nature take its course if it’s more humane to prematurely end it?

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By *acey_RedWoman over a year ago

Liverpool

"So, again apologies I've had wine.

What I've gathered from this thread and previous ones this evening is that some people are just born a dickhead.

That aside, nobody has the right to tell anyone else what to do with their body.

Not your body, not your fucking business.

Does a woman have a right to make you have a vasectomy?

What 3rd party life is involved in a vasectomy?

Every sperm is sacred. Do not spill your seed upon the ground.

Nothing has been conceived so nothing is being terminated in a vasectomy. I know you were only being facetious but im reposnding anyway

The Bible quite literally states "do not spill your seed on the ground". This has been used by the Catholic church to ban contraception, dissuade masturbation and a bunch of other oppression.

By that logic, why is it okay to sever the vas deferens? Sperm are still being synthesised in the millions every day but will have no route out and will die in the testes.

You seem to be wandering off into the a debate about contraception now. I have no issue with contraception

That's interesting. What about the morning after pill? What about an IUD which is can prevent the implantation of a potentially already fertilised egg?

As i said, i have no issue with contraception. My issue is with abortion, exvept in certain situations"

The reason I find it interesting is because your previous comments regarding disagreeing with abortion relate to it having a unique DNA profile and therefore being a third party life so I assumed you drew the line at intervening at the point an egg was fertilised and from that point it should be left to develop into a baby but I guess I assumed wrong. So you are okay with a third party life being destroyed prior to implantation but not once it has implanted in the uterus?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

What I find horrific is so called "men" just creating an argument to make themselves look good.(fyi you really don't)

If you read the original OP I'm sure most would agree it's wrong, but no, lets all just be dicks.

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By *eavenscentitCouple over a year ago

barnstaple

This isn't about religious beliefs, it is about controlling women.

But it really isn't though

And its clear there is an error in her case and dispensation is allowed if you read the law

But let's ignore all that as these terrible circumstance allow outrage

I know. Some people really makes fools of themselves in here with their outrage

Why don't you go back to the thread you started earlier and answer some of the questions on that.

Rarr rarr rarr rarr anger anger anger

Women are angry over this, so are decent men.

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman over a year ago

evesham

"What I find horrific is so called "men" just creating an argument to make themselves look good.(fyi you really don't)

If you read the original OP I'm sure most would agree it's wrong, but no, lets all just be dicks.

Pushing their 'men = victim' agenda

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ananaman41Man over a year ago

Dublin

"So, again apologies I've had wine.

What I've gathered from this thread and previous ones this evening is that some people are just born a dickhead.

That aside, nobody has the right to tell anyone else what to do with their body.

Not your body, not your fucking business.

Does a woman have a right to make you have a vasectomy?

What 3rd party life is involved in a vasectomy?

Every sperm is sacred. Do not spill your seed upon the ground.

Nothing has been conceived so nothing is being terminated in a vasectomy. I know you were only being facetious but im reposnding anyway

The Bible quite literally states "do not spill your seed on the ground". This has been used by the Catholic church to ban contraception, dissuade masturbation and a bunch of other oppression.

By that logic, why is it okay to sever the vas deferens? Sperm are still being synthesised in the millions every day but will have no route out and will die in the testes.

You seem to be wandering off into the a debate about contraception now. I have no issue with contraception

That's interesting. What about the morning after pill? What about an IUD which is can prevent the implantation of a potentially already fertilised egg?

As i said, i have no issue with contraception. My issue is with abortion, exvept in certain situations

I didnt mention anything about unique DNA. You must be referring to someone else in the thread

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By *eavenscentitCouple over a year ago

barnstaple

This isn't about religious beliefs, it is about controlling women.

But it really isn't though

And its clear there is an error in her case and dispensation is allowed if you read the law

But let's ignore all that as these terrible circumstance allow outrage

I know. Some people really makes fools of themselves in here with their outrage

Why don't you go back to the thread you started earlier and answer some of the questions on that.

Rarr rarr rarr rarr anger anger anger

I'm angry and so should everybody B angry that a poor woman has been put in this position.

If youd actually bother your arse and research the issue at hand you'd find its far more complicated then then OP made it out to be.

So as always, there is more than meets the eye

So just because doctors are arguing whether it is "immediately fatal" makes it right?

Miss S

Well yes, that is the law of the state in question. The intention is to protect all the unborn where possible, unless not viable

Well i dont agree with abortion. Is that so hard to understand?

Don’t have an abortion than

Or don't have sex with a woman in case she gets pregnant and decides not to keep the baby. Men have a role here too. "

Exactly, or get sterilised and when you want children have it reversed.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

The right to choose essentially lies with a woman, issues of capacity etc will complicate..

As blokes we can have an opinion but that's it, it's a woman's body and the views of a woman especially in circumstances as described should absolutely take priority..

No matter what any religious book says, or the egos of some men who seem to be unable or unwilling to accept that..

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