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loyalties - israel or Palestinians
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"Do we need to back a side ? I am sure there are concessions to be made by both parties in this conflict. Surely working with both could bring about a better long term solution than sabre rattling on the side of one or the other ? " for sure pain on both sides | |||
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"Put the women in charge, set up a coffee morning, all will be sorted before Christmas "Or Hannuka, more likely.... 
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"Put the women in charge, set up a coffee morning, all will be sorted before Christmas " pmsl@coffee morning - that made me chuckle - thanks  | |||
"Put the women in charge, set up a coffee morning, all will be sorted before Christmas "Maybe but them two sides dont celebrate Christmas,thing is tho they are brothers there really all Arab they should share the whole country and it would be be a wonderful place to visit. But I fear not in our life time. | |||
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"Both as bad as each other for not wanting a peacefull solution in my opinion, because this is essentially a religious war, it will never end; take Northern Ireland as an example "N.ireland was never a religious war,it was territorial terrorism with religeon as the fall guy | |||
"Both as bad as each other for not wanting a peacefull solution in my opinion, because this is essentially a religious war, it will never end; take Northern Ireland as an example "Let's face facts. Israel has the fire power to wipe Gaza off the map if it wanted to, but the Government know if that were to happen, it would be classed as religious genocide as opposed to an act of war. It would also bring other nations into what at the moment is a localised conflict, albeit a well publicised one. By showing both military and governmental restraint at the same time as appearing to make forward steps, they avoid that possibility. The REAL problems don't exist in the general populace, they lie at the radical extremes of both parties and unfortunately those extremes are often religiously focussed. That is where the difficulty lies in the peace process, because it is extremely difficult to either negotiate with or reach a compromise with a fanatic ! | |||
"Neither. They both need to grow up and start behaving like 21st century peoples and TALK. "Spot on, if this gets worse the whole middle east could get sucked in , wars easy ......peace takes guts ! | |||
"Neither. They both need to grow up and start behaving like 21st century peoples and TALK. "I doubt that will happen any time soon, when the Israeli deputy PM claims that the aim of the current military operation is to "send Gaza back to the middle ages". | |||
"Put the women in charge, set up a coffee morning, all will be sorted before Christmas
Maybe but them two sides dont celebrate Christmas,thing is tho they are brothers there really all Arab they should share the whole country and it would be be a wonderful place to visit. But I fear not in our life time."Both dont celebrate christmas??????? Where is Jesus born????? | |||
"Both as bad as each other for not wanting a peacefull solution in my opinion, because this is essentially a religious war, it will never end; take Northern Ireland as an example
Let's face facts. Israel has the fire power to wipe Gaza off the map if it wanted to, but the Government know if that were to happen, it would be classed as religious genocide as opposed to an act of war.
It would also bring other nations into what at the moment is a localised conflict, albeit a well publicised one.
By showing both military and governmental restraint at the same time as appearing to make forward steps, they avoid that possibility.
The REAL problems don't exist in the general populace, they lie at the radical extremes of both parties and unfortunately those extremes are often religiously focussed.
That is where the difficulty lies in the peace process, because it is extremely difficult to either negotiate with or reach a compromise with a fanatic !"what Bussy said | |||
"No need for long explainations of your thoughts just a quick one to say who you back. Definatly the palestians for me." Its a cluster fuck of 3,500 years in the making........both have legitimate claims to the land over which they are lobbing American and Soviet made weapons at each other! Could the answer lie in the last part of the last sentence I wonder? | |||
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In the meantime, innocent people continue to pay for the slanging match with their lives.....
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"Israel. If Palestine gave up their weapons there would be no more war. If Israel gave up their weapons there would be no more Israel." If Israel give back the lands there will be more Palestine weapons... | |||
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"No need for long explainations of your thoughts just a quick one to say who you back. Definatly the palestians for me." I back a two state solution with an independant Jerusalem (the Vatican is now it's own state). Extremists and fundamentalists will often dictate proceedings during the heat of conflict but once the masses have had enough and are brave enough to sign upto a compromised solution the extremists become quickly margionalised. Look at Northern Ireland, no one saw peace coming, but when it did the masses got behind it's momentum and the rest is history. The real real IRA (or whatever they call themselves) are still about, but margionalised. Less backing or taking sides and more demanding restraint and compromise from both sides is what I'd like to see from the international community. The current situation is very disappointing but I remain optimistic. | |||
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"No need for long explainations of your thoughts just a quick one to say who you back. Definatly the palestians for me. I back a two state solution with an independant Jerusalem (the Vatican is now it's own state). Extremists and fundamentalists will often dictate proceedings during the heat of conflict but once the masses have had enough and are brave enough to sign upto a compromised solution the extremists become quickly margionalised. Look at Northern Ireland, no one saw peace coming, but when it did the masses got behind it's momentum and the rest is history. The real real IRA (or whatever they call themselves) are still about, but margionalised. Less backing or taking sides and more demanding restraint and compromise from both sides is what I'd like to see from the international community. The current situation is very disappointing but I remain optimistic. " To be fair, both sides in NI still have massive weapons caches buried. The feuds are still there, but buried. Hopefully with enough time, the irrational hatreds will not be passed down the generations. | |||
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"The Israelites and Palestines have been scrapping for thousands of years. What makes you think it can be resolved by someone like Mr Blair. It's all too easy to back the underdog (Palestine in this instance) yet the Palestinians have been firing rockets into Tel Aviv. Israel has a right to defend itself and have exercised that right. Does Hamas really believe it can win against a far superior force? " Personally I was being sarcastic about 'Mr' Blair....
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"The Israelites and Palestines have been scrapping for thousands of years. What makes you think it can be resolved by someone like Mr Blair. It's all too easy to back the underdog (Palestine in this instance) yet the Palestinians have been firing rockets into Tel Aviv. Israel has a right to defend itself and have exercised that right. Does Hamas really believe it can win against a far superior force? " The French Resistance would say they won against a far superior force. | |||
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"The Israelites and Palestines have been scrapping for thousands of years. What makes you think it can be resolved by someone like Mr Blair. It's all too easy to back the underdog (Palestine in this instance) yet the Palestinians have been firing rockets into Tel Aviv. Israel has a right to defend itself and have exercised that right. Does Hamas really believe it can win against a far superior force? The French Resistance would say they won against a far superior force. " The French Resistance has been romanticised in the decades since WW2 and it's effect in France against German occupying forces was minimal. They were more effective in helping down Allied flyers escape to Spain and/or repatriated to the UK. | |||
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"The Israelites and Palestines have been scrapping for thousands of years. What makes you think it can be resolved by someone like Mr Blair. It's all too easy to back the underdog (Palestine in this instance) yet the Palestinians have been firing rockets into Tel Aviv. Israel has a right to defend itself and have exercised that right. Does Hamas really believe it can win against a far superior force? The French Resistance would say they won against a far superior force. The French Resistance has been romanticised in the decades since WW2 and it's effect in France against German occupying forces was minimal. They were more effective in helping down Allied flyers escape to Spain and/or repatriated to the UK." I am afraid you are wrong. The resistance carried a number of heroic and strategic operations just before the normandy landings. On the liberation of France Ike commented that without the french resistance in Northern France the landings could have been disasterous. Additionally I would not use the "minimal effect" line with the relatives of over 100,000 French (Belgium and Dutch) frredom fighters who gave their lives. You have been watching too many episodes of Allo Allo! | |||
"The Israelites and Palestines have been scrapping for thousands of years. What makes you think it can be resolved by someone like Mr Blair. It's all too easy to back the underdog (Palestine in this instance) yet the Palestinians have been firing rockets into Tel Aviv. Israel has a right to defend itself and have exercised that right. Does Hamas really believe it can win against a far superior force? The French Resistance would say they won against a far superior force. " So the period from 6th June 44 to 8th May 45 had nothing to do with it...?? | |||
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"The Israelites and Palestines have been scrapping for thousands of years. What makes you think it can be resolved by someone like Mr Blair. It's all too easy to back the underdog (Palestine in this instance) yet the Palestinians have been firing rockets into Tel Aviv. Israel has a right to defend itself and have exercised that right. Does Hamas really believe it can win against a far superior force? The French Resistance would say they won against a far superior force. The French Resistance has been romanticised in the decades since WW2 and it's effect in France against German occupying forces was minimal. They were more effective in helping down Allied flyers escape to Spain and/or repatriated to the UK. I am afraid you are wrong. The resistance carried a number of heroic and strategic operations just before the normandy landings. On the liberation of France Ike commented that without the french resistance in Northern France the landings could have been disasterous. Additionally I would not use the "minimal effect" line with the relatives of over 100,000 French (Belgium and Dutch) frredom fighters who gave their lives. You have been watching too many episodes of Allo Allo!" That is absolute bollocks. As WW2 drew to a clsoe there was a rush of French people claiming to have been part of the resistance, yet the Resistance was not an organised body of freedom fighters right across France, they were scattered pockets of resistance who fought locally when they could, and linked up across Northern France if the Germans turned their backs or nodded off for a second. The Vichy Govt ruled France from the south and collaborators were hounded and shamed, and, in some instances, executed after liberation. It was this fear of collaboration that gave rise to the romanticised version of the French Resistance and it helped the Allies to rebuild Europe with such stories of heroism and nationalism. It certainly helped American interests in France to purport a fantasy of the truth that allowed French people to reclaim their lost dignity and recover a sense of national pride. ..and I have only watched a handful of episodes of 'Allo 'Allo - it's just not my kind of humour tbh. | |||
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"I wonder how the Palestinian supporters would feel if a close neighbour of our country would start randomly firing rockets into our towns and cities?" Probably fairly pissed off, but I would expect we would receive some serious international sh*t if our proportionate response was 100 air raids a day designed to wipe out any semblance of civil or political control. | |||
"The Israelites and Palestines have been scrapping for thousands of years. What makes you think it can be resolved by someone like Mr Blair. It's all too easy to back the underdog (Palestine in this instance) yet the Palestinians have been firing rockets into Tel Aviv. Israel has a right to defend itself and have exercised that right. Does Hamas really believe it can win against a far superior force? The French Resistance would say they won against a far superior force. The French Resistance has been romanticised in the decades since WW2 and it's effect in France against German occupying forces was minimal. They were more effective in helping down Allied flyers escape to Spain and/or repatriated to the UK. I am afraid you are wrong. The resistance carried a number of heroic and strategic operations just before the normandy landings. On the liberation of France Ike commented that without the french resistance in Northern France the landings could have been disasterous. Additionally I would not use the "minimal effect" line with the relatives of over 100,000 French (Belgium and Dutch) frredom fighters who gave their lives. You have been watching too many episodes of Allo Allo! That is absolute bollocks. As WW2 drew to a clsoe there was a rush of French people claiming to have been part of the resistance, yet the Resistance was not an organised body of freedom fighters right across France, they were scattered pockets of resistance who fought locally when they could, and linked up across Northern France if the Germans turned their backs or nodded off for a second. The Vichy Govt ruled France from the south and collaborators were hounded and shamed, and, in some instances, executed after liberation. It was this fear of collaboration that gave rise to the romanticised version of the French Resistance and it helped the Allies to rebuild Europe with such stories of heroism and nationalism. It certainly helped American interests in France to purport a fantasy of the truth that allowed French people to reclaim their lost dignity and recover a sense of national pride. ..and I have only watched a handful of episodes of 'Allo 'Allo - it's just not my kind of humour tbh." You are wrong my friend. 100,000 resistance members were either killed or executed by the nazi. The youngest known person to be executed was 12. Your generalisation is bollocks the resistance forces in all the occupied countries did not win the battle for freedom the helped and lots of brave men, women and children were murdered in the pursuit of their freedom; the numbers matter not the fact that they took up arms against what can only described as evil makes them heros. Your banal arguement is not worthy of a response but your dismissive words are insulting to the memories of a lot of brave people. | |||
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"this situation isnt complicated, its made complicated because people have an interest in prolonging it. Its no more complicated than 2 five yr old boys having a play ground dispute. Ms he hit me first ! Says israel the playground bully in defense at having murdered Palestines brothers and sisters in disproportionate revenge. And so it goes on. I wonder what part the usa played in mubaraks departure, probably i suspect the same part they had in ghadaffis exit. VIVA PALESTINE "If only it were so simple. The Palastinians see the Israelis as Zionists and recationary and one might say an occupying force. Until 1947 Israel did not exist; the zionist movement created Israel from what was Palastine. Hence the problem of today. The Western world has hung the Palastinians out to dry as have most Arab countries. When a population is disenfranschised and has no say they become desparate and in this case start firing rockets at Tel Aviv because they say Israel is not allowing them the right to free passage and the right to self determination. If it was as simple as two naughty boys having a ruck then we could get their parents in and tell them to sort it! This is a 3,500 year old deep wound that regularly gets infected and causes pain. | |||
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"this situation isnt complicated, its made complicated because people have an interest in prolonging it. Its no more complicated than 2 five yr old boys having a play ground dispute. Ms he hit me first ! Says israel the playground bully in defense at having murdered Palestines brothers and sisters in disproportionate revenge. And so it goes on. I wonder what part the usa played in mubaraks departure, probably i suspect the same part they had in ghadaffis exit. VIVA PALESTINE If only it were so simple. The Palastinians see the Israelis as Zionists and recationary and one might say an occupying force. Until 1947 Israel did not exist; the zionist movement created Israel from what was Palastine. Hence the problem of today. The Western world has hung the Palastinians out to dry as have most Arab countries. When a population is disenfranschised and has no say they become desparate and in this case start firing rockets at Tel Aviv because they say Israel is not allowing them the right to free passage and the right to self determination.
If it was as simple as two naughty boys having a ruck then we could get their parents in and tell them to sort it!
This is a 3,500 year old deep wound that regularly gets infected and causes pain." | |||
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"Neither. They both need to grow up and start behaving like 21st century peoples and TALK. "eASY TO SAY WHEN WE IN THE WEST LIVE IN OUT LITTLE CARDBOARD BOXES WITH OUR CURTAINS CLOSED ONLY BOTHERING TO GET INVOLVED ONCE IT STARTS TO AFFECT OUR YEARLY HOLIDAYS OUR CARS OR OUR CONSUMER GOODS.....THEY HAVE BEEN FIGHTING FOR YEARS AND THE CREATION OF ISRAEL BY US IN THE WEST HAS ONLY PROVKED ISRAEL IN TO THINKING IT HA S GOT THE BACKING OF ALL US SPOON FED MUPPETS IN THE WEST ..... JUST SAYING LOL  | |||
"The Israelites and Palestines have been scrapping for thousands of years. What makes you think it can be resolved by someone like Mr Blair. It's all too easy to back the underdog (Palestine in this instance) yet the Palestinians have been firing rockets into Tel Aviv. Israel has a right to defend itself and have exercised that right. Does Hamas really believe it can win against a far superior force? The French Resistance would say they won against a far superior force. The French Resistance has been romanticised in the decades since WW2 and it's effect in France against German occupying forces was minimal. They were more effective in helping down Allied flyers escape to Spain and/or repatriated to the UK. I am afraid you are wrong. The resistance carried a number of heroic and strategic operations just before the normandy landings. On the liberation of France Ike commented that without the french resistance in Northern France the landings could have been disasterous. Additionally I would not use the "minimal effect" line with the relatives of over 100,000 French (Belgium and Dutch) frredom fighters who gave their lives. You have been watching too many episodes of Allo Allo! That is absolute bollocks. As WW2 drew to a clsoe there was a rush of French people claiming to have been part of the resistance, yet the Resistance was not an organised body of freedom fighters right across France, they were scattered pockets of resistance who fought locally when they could, and linked up across Northern France if the Germans turned their backs or nodded off for a second. The Vichy Govt ruled France from the south and collaborators were hounded and shamed, and, in some instances, executed after liberation. It was this fear of collaboration that gave rise to the romanticised version of the French Resistance and it helped the Allies to rebuild Europe with such stories of heroism and nationalism. It certainly helped American interests in France to purport a fantasy of the truth that allowed French people to reclaim their lost dignity and recover a sense of national pride. ..and I have only watched a handful of episodes of 'Allo 'Allo - it's just not my kind of humour tbh. You are wrong my friend. 100,000 resistance members were either killed or executed by the nazi. The youngest known person to be executed was 12. Your generalisation is bollocks the resistance forces in all the occupied countries did not win the battle for freedom the helped and lots of brave men, women and children were murdered in the pursuit of their freedom; the numbers matter not the fact that they took up arms against what can only described as evil makes them heros. Your banal arguement is not worthy of a response but your dismissive words are insulting to the memories of a lot of brave people." You've bought into the hype surrounding the French resistance during WW2. Quote from MacroHistory.com: " In France, toward the end of the war, the resistance movement assassinated Germans, collaborators and others they deemed unworthy of living, such as black marketers. According to rough estimates, the French Resistance killed 2500 people between the autumn of 1943 and June 6, 1945. [note] With the defeat of Germany looming, more people identified with the resistance -- which had been limited to a few brave activists. The German commander in Paris, von Choltitz, was trying to work out an orderly withdrawal and he met with a leader of the resistance, Alexandre Parodi, who told him that he had no control over the movement. "The resistance," said Parodi, "is spontaneous." The leader of the Free French, Charles de Gaulle, struggled to keep his resistance movement disciplined, and when the war ended he was quick in his disapproval of random killings. De Gaulle wished to hold to the rule of law, while some outside of his organization found opportunity in the atmosphere of victory over the Germans and fascists to assassinate personal enemies. In France, women accused of having associated with German soldiers had their heads shaved. Some of them had swastikas painted on their foreheads. Some were stripped naked and then paraded through the streets. In Denmark and Norway similar retributions against women occurred, with men able to mask their jealousy with patriotism and moral righteousness. In Denmark, several hundred young women were jailed whose only crime was consorting with young German soldiers. About collaboration the French author Jean Paul Sartre wrote that the whole country had both resisted and collaborated. Everything we did, he said, was equivocal. A subtle poison, he added, corrupted even our best actions. " The resistance claim that 100,000 people were shot during Nazi occupation is merely down to the fact that to die as a Frenchman/woman at the hands of the Nazis made that person a Resistance fighter by default. What is less publicised is that many of those 100,000 (sic) people murdered by the Nazis were shot in reprisals for resistance killings of German soldiers. | |||
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"DO YOU KNOW THAT WE HAVE A CONSERVATIVE FRIENDS OF ISRAEL? ALSO A LABOUR FRIENDS OF ISRAEL?.......ASK YOUR SELFS WHY " Can we not ask you instead ?  | |||
"DO YOU KNOW THAT WE HAVE A CONSERVATIVE FRIENDS OF ISRAEL? ALSO A LABOUR FRIENDS OF ISRAEL?.......ASK YOUR SELFS WHY " It's a wild guess but could it be that it's because there are Jewish supporters of both parties? | |||
"DO YOU KNOW THAT WE HAVE A CONSERVATIVE FRIENDS OF ISRAEL? ALSO A LABOUR FRIENDS OF ISRAEL?.......ASK YOUR SELFS WHY " *scratches head and wonders if I have slipped into a parallel universe of rhetorical questions* | |||
"DO YOU KNOW THAT WE HAVE A CONSERVATIVE FRIENDS OF ISRAEL? ALSO A LABOUR FRIENDS OF ISRAEL?.......ASK YOUR SELFS WHY *scratches head and wonders if I have slipped into a parallel universe of rhetorical questions*" LOL | |||
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"Anyway it's not Palestinians Vs. Israel....it's Hamas Vs. Israel Or seen another way it's Iran backing Hamas to keep up the conflict with Israel...." And the U.S. backing Israel with a _iew to using it as a staging area for an invasion of the Middle East - if it ever needs to. | |||
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"Anyway it's not Palestinians Vs. Israel....it's Hamas Vs. Israel Or seen another way it's Iran backing Hamas to keep up the conflict with Israel.... And the U.S. backing Israel with a _iew to using it as a staging area for an invasion of the Middle East - if it ever needs to." | |||
"The Israelites and Palestines have been scrapping for thousands of years. What makes you think it can be resolved by someone like Mr Blair. It's all too easy to back the underdog (Palestine in this instance) yet the Palestinians have been firing rockets into Tel Aviv. Israel has a right to defend itself and have exercised that right. Does Hamas really believe it can win against a far superior force? The French Resistance would say they won against a far superior force. The French Resistance has been romanticised in the decades since WW2 and it's effect in France against German occupying forces was minimal. They were more effective in helping down Allied flyers escape to Spain and/or repatriated to the UK. I am afraid you are wrong. The resistance carried a number of heroic and strategic operations just before the normandy landings. On the liberation of France Ike commented that without the french resistance in Northern France the landings could have been disasterous. Additionally I would not use the "minimal effect" line with the relatives of over 100,000 French (Belgium and Dutch) frredom fighters who gave their lives. You have been watching too many episodes of Allo Allo! That is absolute bollocks. As WW2 drew to a clsoe there was a rush of French people claiming to have been part of the resistance, yet the Resistance was not an organised body of freedom fighters right across France, they were scattered pockets of resistance who fought locally when they could, and linked up across Northern France if the Germans turned their backs or nodded off for a second. The Vichy Govt ruled France from the south and collaborators were hounded and shamed, and, in some instances, executed after liberation. It was this fear of collaboration that gave rise to the romanticised version of the French Resistance and it helped the Allies to rebuild Europe with such stories of heroism and nationalism. It certainly helped American interests in France to purport a fantasy of the truth that allowed French people to reclaim their lost dignity and recover a sense of national pride. ..and I have only watched a handful of episodes of 'Allo 'Allo - it's just not my kind of humour tbh. You are wrong my friend. 100,000 resistance members were either killed or executed by the nazi. The youngest known person to be executed was 12. Your generalisation is bollocks the resistance forces in all the occupied countries did not win the battle for freedom the helped and lots of brave men, women and children were murdered in the pursuit of their freedom; the numbers matter not the fact that they took up arms against what can only described as evil makes them heros. Your banal arguement is not worthy of a response but your dismissive words are insulting to the memories of a lot of brave people. You've bought into the hype surrounding the French resistance during WW2. Quote from MacroHistory.com: In France, toward the end of the war, the resistance movement assassinated Germans, collaborators and others they deemed unworthy of living, such as black marketers. According to rough estimates, the French Resistance killed 2500 people between the autumn of 1943 and June 6, 1945. [note] With the defeat of Germany looming, more people identified with the resistance -- which had been limited to a few brave activists. The German commander in Paris, von Choltitz, was trying to work out an orderly withdrawal and he met with a leader of the resistance, Alexandre Parodi, who told him that he had no control over the movement. "The resistance," said Parodi, "is spontaneous." The leader of the Free French, Charles de Gaulle, struggled to keep his resistance movement disciplined, and when the war ended he was quick in his disapproval of random killings. De Gaulle wished to hold to the rule of law, while some outside of his organization found opportunity in the atmosphere of victory over the Germans and fascists to assassinate personal enemies. In France, women accused of having associated with German soldiers had their heads shaved. Some of them had swastikas painted on their foreheads. Some were stripped naked and then paraded through the streets. In Denmark and Norway similar retributions against women occurred, with men able to mask their jealousy with patriotism and moral righteousness. In Denmark, several hundred young women were jailed whose only crime was consorting with young German soldiers. About collaboration the French author Jean Paul Sartre wrote that the whole country had both resisted and collaborated. Everything we did, he said, was equivocal. A subtle poison, he added, corrupted even our best actions. The resistance claim that 100,000 people were shot during Nazi occupation is merely down to the fact that to die as a Frenchman/woman at the hands of the Nazis made that person a Resistance fighter by default. What is less publicised is that many of those 100,000 (sic) people murdered by the Nazis were shot in reprisals for resistance killings of German soldiers." The Nazi were good at one thing.......keeping records. In the occupation of France, Denamrk, Belgium and The Netherlands over 100,000 people were shot for "terrorist" activities. The Nazi recorded each one of them. In one of the war cemetries just outside Paris there is a commeration of those who gave their lives in the pursuit of freedom. I repaeat the numbers are irrelvant and their rag tag attempts were proably mis directed but if that is romantic fiction then I must read some really wacky books! | |||
"...if that is romantic fiction then I must read some really wacky books!" I didn't say it was fiction, I said it had been romanticised. The Resistance was real in so much as it existed, but in nowhere near the numbers that have been laid claim to. For most of the occupation, the Nazis were that effective at control that different resistance cells were continually being infiltrated and/or exposed that they rarely hung on to the same leadership to establish reliable communications. It was only when defeat of Germany by the Allies was inevitable that open resistance began to gather momentum right across Europe, and in some instances collaborators quickly switched alliegance as they knew what would most likely happen to them once the war was over, as proven by the execution of thousands of collaborators in France alone. The one area in which the resistance proved invaluable was in assisting downed Allied airmen to escape France through Spain. An estimated 30,000 Allied aircrew shot down over Europe made it out this way. I'm not fictionalising anything, but let's get historic facts straight if we're going to have a debate about it. | |||
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"The alternative would be to abandon Israel to be over run by the likes of Hamas....nd then who is next on their agenda?" I'm in agreement with you Jane, the West needs Israel to exist. The Middle East frightens the living daylights out of me as these countries are populated by people who think going to war is a natural progression of an argument, and they're not far from developing nukes themselves no matter how much the UN/NATO tries to prevent it. A Nuke in the hands of a Jihadist, that's fucking scary!  | |||
"The alternative would be to abandon Israel to be over run by the likes of Hamas....nd then who is next on their agenda? I'm in agreement with you Jane, the West needs Israel to exist. The Middle East frightens the living daylights out of me as these countries are populated by people who think going to war is a natural progression of an argument, and they're not far from developing nukes themselves no matter how much the UN/NATO tries to prevent it. A Nuke in the hands of a Jihadist, that's fucking scary! "only the zionists need israel to exist....as the world is run by zionists....its not the west that needs it ...if people believe that then i thiink they should do some more research...as i have been doing this subject for years now x | |||
"...if that is romantic fiction then I must read some really wacky books! I didn't say it was fiction, I said it had been romanticised. The Resistance was real in so much as it existed, but in nowhere near the numbers that have been laid claim to. For most of the occupation, the Nazis were that effective at control that different resistance cells were continually being infiltrated and/or exposed that they rarely hung on to the same leadership to establish reliable communications. It was only when defeat of Germany by the Allies was inevitable that open resistance began to gather momentum right across Europe, and in some instances collaborators quickly switched alliegance as they knew what would most likely happen to them once the war was over, as proven by the execution of thousands of collaborators in France alone. The one area in which the resistance proved invaluable was in assisting downed Allied airmen to escape France through Spain. An estimated 30,000 Allied aircrew shot down over Europe made it out this way. I'm not fictionalising anything, but let's get historic facts straight if we're going to have a debate about it." My facts are correct. | |||
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"The alternative would be to abandon Israel to be over run by the likes of Hamas....nd then who is next on their agenda? I'm in agreement with you Jane, the West needs Israel to exist. The Middle East frightens the living daylights out of me as these countries are populated by people who think going to war is a natural progression of an argument, and they're not far from developing nukes themselves no matter how much the UN/NATO tries to prevent it. A Nuke in the hands of a Jihadist, that's fucking scary!
only the zionists need israel to exist....as the world is run by zionists....its not the west that needs it ...if people believe that then i thiink they should do some more research...as i have been doing this subject for years now x"No, it's not just Zionists who need Israel to exist or benefit from it. The USA does too. What a wonderful little sales ploy for arms to have them right in the middle of all those Arab countries - 'Hey Mr Israel, you've got that nasty Egypt next door who wants to see the end of you - you better buy our F-16's to protect yourself!' 'Hey Mr Egypt, Israels buyin our F-16's - you better buy some so they don't get the upper hand on you!' "Hey Mr Israel AND Mr Egypt - them pesky Ruskies have sold some of their MiG's to Mr Syria - you better have more of our F-16's...." and so it goes on...... Bloody good job Hammas hasn't got it's hands on an F-16 yet......
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"...if that is romantic fiction then I must read some really wacky books! I didn't say it was fiction, I said it had been romanticised. The Resistance was real in so much as it existed, but in nowhere near the numbers that have been laid claim to. For most of the occupation, the Nazis were that effective at control that different resistance cells were continually being infiltrated and/or exposed that they rarely hung on to the same leadership to establish reliable communications. It was only when defeat of Germany by the Allies was inevitable that open resistance began to gather momentum right across Europe, and in some instances collaborators quickly switched alliegance as they knew what would most likely happen to them once the war was over, as proven by the execution of thousands of collaborators in France alone. The one area in which the resistance proved invaluable was in assisting downed Allied airmen to escape France through Spain. An estimated 30,000 Allied aircrew shot down over Europe made it out this way. I'm not fictionalising anything, but let's get historic facts straight if we're going to have a debate about it.My facts are correct." The surrender of France in June 1940, was a major blow to many French people in terms of their pride. Many believed that the government had let the people down. The creation of a Nazi-approved Vichy government, primarily in the centreand south of the country, was, in the minds of many, further proof that politicians had let down France. The resistance movement developed to provide the Allies with intelligence, attack the Germans when possible and to assist the escape of Allied airmen. In the immediate aftermath of the June 1940 surrender, France went into a period of shock. The public had been assured that the French army, along with the Maginot Line, was more than strong enough to resist a German attack. The speed and severity of Blitzkrieg had shocked the French people. The non-occupied region of France, known as Vichy France, was set up by the Germans and governed by Marshall Pétain. His reputation was still high and in the early days of Vichy, his leadership gave it some stability and kudos. Also in the days after the British attack on Mers el Kébir, there was a degree of anti-British sentiment in France. Therefore, there was no immediate drive to create a resistance movement en masse in central and southern France. On June 18th, 1940,Charles de Gaulle addressed the people of France from London. He called on the French people to continue the fight against the Germans. This message hit hard in occupied France but initially it was less well received in Vichy France. Regardless of what many thought of the Vichy government, the area they controlled was run by French people. However, when the Vichy government began to openly collaborate with the Germans, attitudes hardened. The French Resistance movement is an umbrella term which covered numerous anti-German resistance movements that were based within France. There were resistance movements that took direct orders from the Special Operations Executive, there was the communist resistance, groups loyal to de Gaulle, regional resistance movements that wanted independence etc. In the north, the target was simply the Germans while in the south, the Vichy government was a target as well as the Germans. The first resistance movements were in the north, such as the OCM (Organisation Civile et Militaire) and by the end of 1940, six underground newspapers were being regularly printed in the north. In May 1941, the first SOE agent was dropped into northern France to assist the work of the resistance. Because of the peculiar political complexities of France, the resistance movement got off to a difficult start. However, by June 1941, the resistance movement had become more organised and its work against the Germans increased accordingly. Two dates are important in explaining the work of the resistance movement in France. On June 22nd 1941, all the communist groups within France joined forces to create one group. This simple act greatly increased its potency. On November 11th 1942, German forces occupied the whole of France. This meant that the whole country was occupied and the attitude of the north quickly transferred itself to the south. The German attack on Russia - Operation Barbarossa - led to many French communists joining the resistance movement. Politics took a back step and the French communists gained a reputation for being aggressive and successful resistance fighters. Many French people joined as the support for Vichy quickly waned. Many in the south were angered by the compulsory labour service that had been brought in. But the treatment of the Jews was a major cause of resentment towards the Vichy government and many joined the resistance as a means of fighting against a policy that the vast majority found abhorrent. The relationship between Britain and the French Resistance movement was vital. Britain, via the SOE, supplied the French with equipment and trained agents. The French Resistance, in turn, supplied vital intelligence reports. As an example, the British attack on the radio base at Bruneval in 1942 could have been a lot more costly in terms of lives lost, if the British had not received intelligence reports from the resistance with regards to the building of new blockhouses there. With such information, the British paratrooperscould plan accordingly. Though the British government and de Gaulle could have a difficult relationship at times, in October 1941, both reached a compromise with regards to resistance operations in France. de Gaulle set up a Central Intelligence and Operations Agency with the support of the British. This acted independently but planning was carried out in co-operation with the SOE which supplied equipment. Agents sent into France started a general re-grouping of all resistance movements and a Conseil National de la Résistance movement was established which was subordinated to de Gaulle. By the end of 1942, de Gaulle became head of the Comité Français de Libération Nationale which headed all resistance movements in France. As a result of this greater organisational security, the resistance became more effective in 1943. Attacks on the French rail system increased greatly. Between January and June 1943, there were 130 acts of sabotage against rail lines each month. By September 1943, this had increased to 530. The disruption to the Germans ability to move equipment was massive. By 1944, it is estimated that there were 100,000 members of the various resistance movements that existed in France. Just one year earlier, there were just 40,000 members.. By the spring of 1944, there were 60 intelligence cells whose task was solely to collect intelligence as opposed to carrying out acts of sabotage. In the build up to D-Day, the intelligence they gathered was vital. In May 1944 alone, they sent 3,000 written reports to the Allies and 700 wireless reports. Between April and May, the resistance destroyed 1,800 railway engines. When this figure is added to the 2,400 destroyed by Allied bombers, it is easy to understand why the Germans had such difficulty transporting equipment across France. Post-war analysis of the success of the resistance shows that the 150 most successful acts of sabotage against factories in France between 1943 and 1944, used just 3,000 lbs of explosives - the equivalent of the bomb load of one single Mosquito plane. The use of the British SOE to train French resistance fighters proved pivotal in keeping supply lines open to advancing allied troops. Around 45,000 French men, women and children were executed by the occupational forces most for acts of terrorism as defined by the Vichy government. More Romantic Bollocks? | |||
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"I would not support anyone that straps bombs to little children and sends them across the border...find me a more evil act than that." I have not seen a report of that? | |||
"The alternative would be to abandon Israel to be over run by the likes of Hamas....nd then who is next on their agenda? I'm in agreement with you Jane, the West needs Israel to exist. The Middle East frightens the living daylights out of me as these countries are populated by people who think going to war is a natural progression of an argument, and they're not far from developing nukes themselves no matter how much the UN/NATO tries to prevent it. A Nuke in the hands of a Jihadist, that's fucking scary! "Pakistan has a nuclear weapon and their goverment is populated with fundementalists? | |||
"only the zionists need israel to exist....as the world is run by zionists....its not the west that needs it ...if people believe that then i thiink they should do some more research...as i have been doing this subject for years now x" Are you under the impression that you are the only person on this site who has studied?, you have your _iews after being in receipt of your studies....and others have their _iews, please don't try to make it sound like others have no knowledge of the matter just because they haven't come to the same conclusion as yourself. People have their own opinions, you should learn to respect that fact. That's all debate is....individual opinion. | |||
"only the zionists need israel to exist....as the world is run by zionists....its not the west that needs it ...if people believe that then i thiink they should do some more research...as i have been doing this subject for years now x" Next you'll be telling me that 12 families run the world and that they don't answer to anyone other than themselves.  | |||
"Pakistan has a nuclear weapon and their goverment is populated with fundementalists?" And the more extreme of them wouldn't hesitate to use it if they could get their mitts on The Button. | |||
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"...More Romantic Bollocks?" You have quoted times, dates and places, and another writer's interpretation of them. That's not a problem in itself, but other writers have seen a different resistance movement in France between 1940-45, and that is there interpretation of what they saw. History is written by the victors don't forget, and it is not inconcievable that governments tell lies from time to time. Among those who stood trial for collaboration, and received the sentence of death, was the eighty-nine year old World War I hero, General Pétain, who had been the chief of state of the Vichy regime. An opinion poll indicated that only three percent favored death for Pétain, and his sentence was reduced to life in prison. The active leader of the Vichy regime, the prime minister, Pierre Laval was not so lucky however. Laval had not been a Nazi sympathizer and he had bargained as hard as he could with the Germans for the sake of France. He defended himself in court with such skill that the court cut his trial short. The court sentenced him to death. According to a poll, sixty-six percent approved of the sentence, and the sentence stuck. "I die," he said, "for having loved my country too much." He was shot on October 15, 1945. History - that is history written by shameful Frenchmen - want to forget men like Laval though. No, it is safe to say that while maybe 100,000 people (of a population of millions) do not a Resistance movement make, and whilst credible intel was gathered by the few french people on the ground prepared to risk their necks for France, the majority of French people kept their heads well below the parapet, or even betrayed Allied personnel in return for an easy life under a Nazi-occupied France. | |||
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"Put the women in charge, set up a coffee morning, all will be sorted before Christmas "We had woman in charge she fucked us over more than all the useless male politicians | |||
"...More Romantic Bollocks? You have quoted times, dates and places, and another writer's interpretation of them. That's not a problem in itself, but other writers have seen a different resistance movement in France between 1940-45, and that is there interpretation of what they saw. History is written by the victors don't forget, and it is not inconcievable that governments tell lies from time to time. Among those who stood trial for collaboration, and received the sentence of death, was the eighty-nine year old World War I hero, General Pétain, who had been the chief of state of the Vichy regime. An opinion poll indicated that only three percent favored death for Pétain, and his sentence was reduced to life in prison. The active leader of the Vichy regime, the prime minister, Pierre Laval was not so lucky however. Laval had not been a Nazi sympathizer and he had bargained as hard as he could with the Germans for the sake of France. He defended himself in court with such skill that the court cut his trial short. The court sentenced him to death. According to a poll, sixty-six percent approved of the sentence, and the sentence stuck. "I die," he said, "for having loved my country too much." He was shot on October 15, 1945. History - that is history written by shameful Frenchmen - want to forget men like Laval though. No, it is safe to say that while maybe 100,000 people (of a population of millions) do not a Resistance movement make, and whilst credible intel was gathered by the few french people on the ground prepared to risk their necks for France, the majority of French people kept their heads well below the parapet, or even betrayed Allied personnel in return for an easy life under a Nazi-occupied France." You missed the point............a few French people how shameful. | |||
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"As everyone and his dog has meddled in the Middle East at some point in the past and the warring factions are still slugging it out why not just leave them to it. " One word "oil" | |||
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"As everyone and his dog has meddled in the Middle East at some point in the past and the warring factions are still slugging it out why not just leave them to it. One word "oil" "If it were all about oil the US would be sucking the Arab boabie. They (US) seem more inclined to support Israel. Maybe there's just more Jewish votes than Arab votes in the USA. | |||
"As everyone and his dog has meddled in the Middle East at some point in the past and the warring factions are still slugging it out why not just leave them to it. One word "oil"
If it were all about oil the US would be sucking the Arab boabie. They (US) seem more inclined to support Israel. Maybe there's just more Jewish votes than Arab votes in the USA."You find the yanks do both in rest of middle east, no oil in Palestine so they are not concerned more ashamed of what they let happen in Europe in second world war. | |||
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"As everyone and his dog has meddled in the Middle East at some point in the past and the warring factions are still slugging it out why not just leave them to it. One word "oil"
If it were all about oil the US would be sucking the Arab boabie. They (US) seem more inclined to support Israel. Maybe there's just more Jewish votes than Arab votes in the USA."hehehehehe ... all those Jews who think America is their bestest buddy will get a rude wake up call when Middle Eastern oil is threatened to the extent that America parks a couple of aircraft carriers off the coast of Tel Aviv along with another 30 support ships. Palestine, Israel, Jordan, Syria? None of them will stop the U.S. if it decides to take control of 1/4 of the world's oil supplies. | |||
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"As everyone and his dog has meddled in the Middle East at some point in the past and the warring factions are still slugging it out why not just leave them to it. One word "oil"
If it were all about oil the US would be sucking the Arab boabie. They (US) seem more inclined to support Israel. Maybe there's just more Jewish votes than Arab votes in the USA.
hehehehehe ... all those Jews who think America is their bestest buddy will get a rude wake up call when Middle Eastern oil is threatened to the extent that America parks a couple of aircraft carriers off the coast of Tel Aviv along with another 30 support ships. Palestine, Israel, Jordan, Syria? None of them will stop the U.S. if it decides to take control of 1/4 of the world's oil supplies."why did hitler have a beef with the jews?????? | |||
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"i admire iran and its president for not beeing bullied by us and the usa .,,,, his attitude is bring it on.... dont threaten me...that would be a big mistake just check him out on utube he is a right guy " Why am I not surprised that you admire Iran and their President? They openly call for the total destruction of Israel and it's people, like Hamas they publically deny the holocaust ever took place, they publically call for the overthrow of the Saudi Royal family, they publically call for the permanent closure of the Suez Canal..... But you admire them.....and their 'Right Guy' | |||
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"As everyone and his dog has meddled in the Middle East at some point in the past and the warring factions are still slugging it out why not just leave them to it. One word "oil"
If it were all about oil the US would be sucking the Arab boabie. They (US) seem more inclined to support Israel. Maybe there's just more Jewish votes than Arab votes in the USA.
hehehehehe ... all those Jews who think America is their bestest buddy will get a rude wake up call when Middle Eastern oil is threatened to the extent that America parks a couple of aircraft carriers off the coast of Tel Aviv along with another 30 support ships. Palestine, Israel, Jordan, Syria? None of them will stop the U.S. if it decides to take control of 1/4 of the world's oil supplies.
why did hitler have a beef with the jews??????"Hitler needed a fall guy to unite the German people to a common cause. He blamed European Jews for causing WW1 for financial reasons. After WW1 came the Great Depression of 1929 and Hitler saw that Jewish businessmen were largely unaffected by it (as they'd held their wealth in gold). He surmised that Jews were the orchestrators of the Depression. Kristallnacht (or Night of the Broken Glass) was a series of coordinated attacks against Jews throughout Nazi Germany and parts of Austria on 9–10 November 1938, carried out by SA paramilitary and civilians. German authorities looked on without intervening. The attacks left the streets covered with broken glass from the windows of Jewish-owned stores, buildings, and synagogues. At least 91 Jews were killed in the attacks, and a further 30,000 arrested and incarcerated in concentration camps. Jewish homes, hospitals, and schools were ransacked, as the attackers demolished buildings with sledgehammers. Over 1,000 synagogues were burned (95 in Vienna alone), and over 7,000 Jewish businesses destroyed or damaged. In 1942 the Final Solution to the Jewish Question was devised by Heinrich Himmler and 6 million Jews were rounded up and exterminated. (incidentally, the term 'Jewish Question' was first used in Great Britain in 1750) | |||
"Put the women in charge, set up a coffee morning, all will be sorted before Christmas "I can tell you exactly when the current trouble will be over by.. 22 January 2013 That's the date of the Israeli elections, once Netenyahu is re-elected he won't need his Palestinian-killing sideshow to boost him in the polls and can call a cease fire. | |||
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"Put the women in charge, set up a coffee morning, all will be sorted before Christmas
I can tell you exactly when the current trouble will be over by..
22 January 2013
That's the date of the Israeli elections, once Netenyahu is re-elected he won't need his Palestinian-killing sideshow to boost him in the polls and can call a cease fire. "So are Hamas in on this plan for Jan 22nd?.....someone had better remind them to stop launching missiles into Israelon the 21st Jan. then....or your theory won't be worth a feck. | |||
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"As the world is to end on 21st Dec 2012 then this is probably the catalyst that sparks the chain reaction that steers the human race to it's own demise." Well hi there cheerful. | |||
"As the world is to end on 21st Dec 2012 then this is probably the catalyst that sparks the chain reaction that steers the human race to it's own demise. Well hi there cheerful. " | |||
"As the world is to end on 21st Dec 2012 then this is probably the catalyst that sparks the chain reaction that steers the human race to it's own demise. Well hi there cheerful. "Best we get more shagging in then! | |||
"As the world is to end on 21st Dec 2012 then this is probably the catalyst that sparks the chain reaction that steers the human race to it's own demise. Well hi there cheerful. Best we get more shagging in then! "See thread 'End of the World Orgy Planning Committee' for details lol | |||
" I'm in agreement with you Jane " Fuck me! A Wishy / Satisfy Jane axis. Something I never thought I would see. | |||
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"No need for long explainations of your thoughts just a quick one to say who you back. Definatly the palestians for me." You what? Everyone should take a look at the history properly first. | |||
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"Neither. Personally I'd love to be able to wave a magic wand and have all the nutters on both sides shipped off to an uninhabited island in the Arctic.I'd give them some weapons and and let them annihilate each other. The other Israelis and Palestinians who are happy to live and let live and aren't really interested in religions-particularly if they are dour with a tendency towards fanaticism, like Judaism and Islam- I would leave in Israel to live in peace with each other in their beautiful country." That sounds more like Utopia and as we all know, it doesn't exist, unfortunately. | |||
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"As a former paratrooper come staunch Irish Republican, I hate Zionists, and wish Palestine victory xxx" So you're happy to be a serial loser, eh? | |||
"As a former paratrooper come staunch Irish Republican, I hate Zionists, and wish Palestine victory xxx So you're happy to be a serial loser, eh?" yes, we lost in Basra, Sangin, Helmand. This gave me a unique perspective perhaps lol | |||
"As a former paratrooper come staunch Irish Republican, I hate Zionists, and wish Palestine victory xxx" How can you be a paratrooper AND an Irish Republican? Surely they are mutually exclusive aren't they?  | |||
"As a former paratrooper come staunch Irish Republican, I hate Zionists, and wish Palestine victory xxx So you're happy to be a serial loser, eh? yes, we lost in Basra, Sangin, Helmand. This gave me a unique perspective perhaps lol" Unique perhaps. Maybe blinkered. | |||
"As a former paratrooper come staunch Irish Republican, I hate Zionists, and wish Palestine victory xxx How can you be a paratrooper AND an Irish Republican? Surely they are mutually exclusive aren't they? "He's a fully paid up member of the pigmy army. | |||
"As a former paratrooper come staunch Irish Republican, I hate Zionists, and wish Palestine victory xxx How can you be a paratrooper AND an Irish Republican? Surely they are mutually exclusive aren't they? "Nope, born in Derry to Presbyterian parents. Joined at 17. Politicized by service, end up supporting my fellow county men ten yrs later ona non sectarian, non religious basis, xx | |||
"As a former paratrooper come staunch Irish Republican, I hate Zionists, and wish Palestine victory xxx How can you be a paratrooper AND an Irish Republican? Surely they are mutually exclusive aren't they?
Nope, born in Derry to Presbyterian parents. Joined at 17. Politicized by service, end up supporting my fellow county men ten yrs later ona non sectarian, non religious basis, xx"ie space cadet. | |||
"As a former paratrooper come staunch Irish Republican, I hate Zionists, and wish Palestine victory xxx How can you be a paratrooper AND an Irish Republican? Surely they are mutually exclusive aren't they?
Nope, born in Derry to Presbyterian parents. Joined at 17. Politicized by service, end up supporting my fellow county men ten yrs later ona non sectarian, non religious basis, xx
ie space cadet."Hey, I know the sectarian divide in Glasgow, but no, completely real and practical Republican x | |||
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"As a former paratrooper come staunch Irish Republican, I hate Zionists, and wish Palestine victory xxx How can you be a paratrooper AND an Irish Republican? Surely they are mutually exclusive aren't they?
Nope, born in Derry to Presbyterian parents. Joined at 17. Politicized by service, end up supporting my fellow county men ten yrs later ona non sectarian, non religious basis, xx"Well that's why we have free minds so we can think for ourselves and change our loyalties if circumstance warrants it. As for hating Zionists, hate is the strongest of human emotions. Hate allows things like the Holocaust to occur. Hate allows people to fly packed jetliners into packed skyscrapers. Hate permits the unforgiving killing of people who had no active part in whatever 'struggle' the oppressed think they had a part in. I cannot for the life of me think of one single person on this planet that I truly and utterly hate. It's just not in me. Indifference yes, hate, no. | |||
"As a former paratrooper come staunch Irish Republican, I hate Zionists, and wish Palestine victory xxx How can you be a paratrooper AND an Irish Republican? Surely they are mutually exclusive aren't they?
Nope, born in Derry to Presbyterian parents. Joined at 17. Politicized by service, end up supporting my fellow county men ten yrs later ona non sectarian, non religious basis, xx
ie space cadet.
Hey, I know the sectarian divide in Glasgow, but no, completely real and practical Republican x"So wrap the Green Flag 'round you, to die were far more sweet. Just don't expect Home Start or Relay. | |||
"[Removed by poster at 22/11/12 00:56:28]" I spent 6mths with Israle Para-commandos, you could hate such people I am sure | |||
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".............. I cannot for the life of me think of one single person on this planet that I truly and utterly hate. It's just not in me. Indifference yes, hate, no." I can think of lots. I choose not to but that's a different matter. | |||
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"[Removed by poster at 22/11/12 00:56:28] I spent 6mths with Israle Para-commandos, you could hate such people I am sure" I could. I don't, but I'd make sure I spelled it properly. Ziva David's charachter has a lot of nonsense to answer for. | |||
"[Removed by poster at 22/11/12 00:56:28] I spent 6mths with Israle Para-commandos, you could hate such people I am sure I could. I don't, but I'd make sure I spelled it properly. Ziva David's charachter has a lot of nonsense to answer for." better soldiers than I or mine, just hideously fascistic | |||
"[Removed by poster at 22/11/12 00:56:28] I spent 6mths with Israle Para-commandos, you could hate such people I am sure I could. I don't, but I'd make sure I spelled it properly. Ziva David's charachter has a lot of nonsense to answer for. better soldiers than I or mine, just hideously fascistic" Indeed. Mazel tov. | |||
"[Removed by poster at 22/11/12 00:56:28] I spent 6mths with Israle Para-commandos, you could hate such people I am sure I could. I don't, but I'd make sure I spelled it properly. Ziva David's charachter has a lot of nonsense to answer for." Character. I'd make sure your own spelling is up to speed before throwing stones at someone else. | |||
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"If the Palestinians laid down their weapons, there would be peace. If the Israelis laid down their weapons, there would be no Israel. Palestinians arent really interested in Israel or Israelis existing at all though are they. " So, what you're saying is: stuff the Palestinians because Arabs don't like Israel? So, because the Jews have been persecuted for the last 2 thousand years its perfectly fine for them to persecute another race? Where would you like to draw the line here? Destroy both races, just let the Jews kill the Arabs, let Israel die a tortuous death? Israel is a state formed in violence. So, even though they took the land by violence (with american help) the fact that they have since stole even more land (West Bank anyone?), illegally inserted communities there (not my words, the U.N.s' words), diverted water supplies from Palistinian land for their own farming, murdered families who refused to move, crushed Palistine economically, created an illegal embargo (See U.N) to prevent medical/food supplies from entering the country etc you think Palistine should just say thanks? Israel is, by far, the stronger country. They should, to create a lasting peace, remove the illegal squatters, restore the water, allow medical/food aid, push forward the hand of peace to their neighbours. Yes, it may take time, yes there WILL be Palistinians who wont accept peace but we have seen the same in N.I haven't we? Those that want peace will work together to overcome the radicals so the region can live in relative peace - like N.I, the general community will point to those that want to keep the hate going making it easier for both sides to take action against them. But that means BOTH sides taking action and as it stands, Israel won't stand up to the hard-line, ultra religious squatters, when they do, Hamas will be more flexable to agreement and when they ARE, peace will follow in short order. It may take 10 years but compared to another 50 years of war and hate that's nothing is it? | |||
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"I do think there are faults (an understatement) on both sides but... Israel is the problem in the middle east. The sooner the west (USA) tell the Israelis to wind their necks in the better. I cant think of bigger shit stirring oppressive warmongering country than Israel and that includes Iran. " I think you need to look back through their history, say 70 years or so! A disenfranchised people through out history who don't want rockets falling on to their civilian population or Suicide bombers on busses in the middle of the day! (terrorist act) Sad thing is I'm sure there are people on both sides who just want to get along. Religion has a lot to answer for... | |||
"Lets look at statistics, over a hundred people have been killed by the Israeli this past week, most being children and a new born baby. On the other hand, only three Israeli's died. Are you telling me that new born baby was a threat?" Sadly if you Plant your rockets in civilian populations casualties will occur. Who was in the bus today with the suicide bomber? Women,children and old people! Cowardly terrorist act! How many rockets were launched today? If your home kept being vandalised by the local yobs at what point would you say enough us enough? People have died here for defending their homes. I accept this is a simplistic analogy but its no less frightening for those inside the house. This goes way beyond land and possessions, it's a religious hatred that will never be sorted. Sadly one of these faiths/races turned the other cheek once before and were nearly wiped out for it. As for the comments re the taking of land well I would like to remind you that at some point in history we've all been conquered by others, doesn't make it right but it seems to be a condition if the human psyche and allows us to have and enjoy our freedom. | |||
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"No need for long explainations of your thoughts just a quick one to say who you back. Definatly the palestians for me." isreal should have riled its army over the border and sorted the terrorists out | |||
"Lets not forget about the fact, that the Palestinian people democratically voted Hamas to be their political leaders. But, yet, the West does not recognise them? Hmm, and why is that i wonder?" Because Hamas support and are actively engaged in acts of terrorism. The UK govt doesn't deal with terrorists and for the West Bank to ever have a chance of being recognised as the official state of Palestine it has to abandon bombs and bullets. | |||
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"Is Béal Feirste sinking? " What does this even mean?? | |||
