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NHS breaking point
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Maybe we should all exercise responsibility for ourselves so we don't need to stretch their capacity. | |||
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"With this hot weather the good folks who work for the NHS will be pushed to the limit,so let's tell the good ladies and lads to work a bit harder"
Jeez! How much harder do you want them to work! I'm sure they are doing everything they can in these testing times | |||
"I wish people would stop calling those that complain about the heat snowflakes etc. If you've not worked a 13 hour shift in a hospital in full ppe sit your arse down and shut up. It's unbearable on wards in this weather. " I agree. I was in hospital in august 2020 for a couple of days and the heat was unbearable and I wasn’t having to do anything! Also just walking to school this morning made my son’s chest flare up unexpectedly. I’m hoping I’ll be able to manage it at home. | |||
"Maybe the GP's could step up. In. My experience the majority if people in A&E could have been seen by a GP" If the GP service hadn't suffered a huge loss of staff and wasn't on crisis that would probably be happening | |||
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"Maybe the GP's could step up. In. My experience the majority if people in A&E could have been seen by a GP If the GP service hadn't suffered a huge loss of staff and wasn't on crisis that would probably be happening " Well that's too much like common sense | |||
"Sorry, but what's the aim of this thread OP? "Probably to cause arguments as usual | |||
"Why are hospitals so hot? There needs to be more windows that open." They only open a couple of inches in case people try and jump out | |||
"Maybe the GP's could step up. In. My experience the majority if people in A&E could have been seen by a GP If the GP service hadn't suffered a huge loss of staff and wasn't on crisis that would probably be happening Well that's too much like common sense " And too much like a drain on the profits of the private companies that now run so many practices. | |||
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"Sorry, but what's the aim of this thread OP?
Probably to cause arguments as usual "It kinda seems like that. Why I was asking, because I think this heatwave is pretty hard going for a lot of people and that impacts on the NHS who've already got a huge rise in Covid cases to deal with. Plus working in this heat wearing PPE must be horrendous. | |||
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all the nhs workers i know seem to work more than hard enough to be fair | |||
"Why are hospitals so hot? There needs to be more windows that open." For example older adults get cold easily so sometimes you have to limit the amount of windows you open. Staff move round so get hotter. They are laying in bed so feel it more. Also the type of windows can't open a certain way because they don't want anyone jumping. In a bay you'll only have one outside wall so only 2 windows. Because your ward is in the middle of the bays and side rooms there's no windows. These are just a few examples. | |||
"I wish people would stop calling those that complain about the heat snowflakes etc. If you've not worked a 13 hour shift in a hospital in full ppe sit your arse down and shut up. It's unbearable on wards in this weather. " Tbf, the exact same can be said of many jobs. I can assure you that working on a paper machine, aluminium hot rolling mill or steel works (to pick 3 industries I've worked in) isn't too pleasant either. Not saying I agree with the OP (who I suspect was being ironic) but I certainly don't agree that people should sit their ass down and shut up if they've not worked on a ward in PPE for 13 hours. I'd take that any day over 2 am in the drying hood of a paper machine when you started work at 8am the day before, need to have your boiler suit and gloves on as every bit of metal you touch is still over 100°C even though the steam was shut off hours before. Oh, and while you're in there the actual job you have is to hack out a 5 meter x 2 meter x 0.5 meter slab of pulp that's mis-fed, sheared off a bunch of high tensile bolts,wedged a drive roller down the machine and jammed itself into a gap and is now doing its best to return to the same consistency as the wood it was originally made from
Mr | |||
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"I wish people would stop calling those that complain about the heat snowflakes etc. If you've not worked a 13 hour shift in a hospital in full ppe sit your arse down and shut up. It's unbearable on wards in this weather. Tbf, the exact same can be said of many jobs. I can assure you that working on a paper machine, aluminium hot rolling mill or steel works (to pick 3 industries I've worked in) isn't too pleasant either. Not saying I agree with the OP (who I suspect was being ironic) but I certainly don't agree that people should sit their ass down and shut up if they've not worked on a ward in PPE for 13 hours. I'd take that any day over 2 am in the drying hood of a paper machine when you started work at 8am the day before, need to have your boiler suit and gloves on as every bit of metal you touch is still over 100°C even though the steam was shut off hours before. Oh, and while you're in there the actual job you have is to hack out a 5 meter x 2 meter x 0.5 meter slab of pulp that's mis-fed, sheared off a bunch of high tensile bolts,wedged a drive roller down the machine and jammed itself into a gap and is now doing its best to return to the same consistency as the wood it was originally made from
Mr"Of course it can. But this was a thread about NHS workers hence my comment. And yes if they are calling people snowflakes who complain about working in this weather they should sit down and shut up because the chances are they aren't affected hence their stupid comments | |||
"I wish people would stop calling those that complain about the heat snowflakes etc. If you've not worked a 13 hour shift in a hospital in full ppe sit your arse down and shut up. It's unbearable on wards in this weather. "  | |||
"Why are hospitals so hot? There needs to be more windows that open." Windows in hospitals are like that to prevent suicides. Years ago many jumped out of the windows some to their deaths and some to horrendous injuries | |||
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"With this hot weather the good folks who work for the NHS will be pushed to the limit,so let's tell the good ladies and lads to work a bit harder" Isn't this already the official Conservative party policy? Tell those who actually keep the country running that they must just work ever harder with less resources and (in real terms) reducing wages? While those who fucked up the country get to do sweet FA, have parties instead of working, and get more money in expenses for a single lunch than many people manage to earn in an entire week. I hope that the next time any member of this shower of a government requires medical aid, they get treated with the appropriate level of respect that they truly deserve. | |||
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"Believe the OP is trying to highlight the ridiculous pressure and lack of resource the NHS is labouring under, and is sarcastically illustrating the only way our government seeks to answer it." Bugger. I thought I was the only one to detect the subtle hint of sarcasm. And by subtle I mean pretty bloody obvious. 
A | |||
"With this hot weather the good folks who work for the NHS will be pushed to the limit,so let's tell the good ladies and lads to work a bit harder Isn't this already the official Conservative party policy? Tell those who actually keep the country running that they must just work ever harder with less resources and (in real terms) reducing wages? While those who fucked up the country get to do sweet FA, have parties instead of working, and get more money in expenses for a single lunch than many people manage to earn in an entire week. I hope that the next time any member of this shower of a government requires medical aid, they get treated with the appropriate level of respect that they truly deserve." Quite. Along with rely on big society (per David Cameron) - the vaccine rollout is ongoing and is still almost exclusively being run by volunteers. It's almost as if they want public services not to exist. | |||
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"If we clap harder for them it might make them immune to the heat, and work harder." We should try it for the politicians first | |||
"With this hot weather the good folks who work for the NHS will be pushed to the limit,so let's tell the good ladies and lads to work a bit harder" Who are we telling to work harder, NHS or non NHS staff? | |||
"Why are hospitals so hot? There needs to be more windows that open." This. Every time I've been in hospital, irrespective of season or weather, it's been like a furnace. I swear it's unhealthy! | |||
"I wish people would stop calling those that complain about the heat snowflakes etc. If you've not worked a 13 hour shift in a hospital in full ppe sit your arse down and shut up. It's unbearable on wards in this weather. Tbf, the exact same can be said of many jobs. I can assure you that working on a paper machine, aluminium hot rolling mill or steel works (to pick 3 industries I've worked in) isn't too pleasant either. Not saying I agree with the OP (who I suspect was being ironic) but I certainly don't agree that people should sit their ass down and shut up if they've not worked on a ward in PPE for 13 hours. I'd take that any day over 2 am in the drying hood of a paper machine when you started work at 8am the day before, need to have your boiler suit and gloves on as every bit of metal you touch is still over 100°C even though the steam was shut off hours before. Oh, and while you're in there the actual job you have is to hack out a 5 meter x 2 meter x 0.5 meter slab of pulp that's mis-fed, sheared off a bunch of high tensile bolts,wedged a drive roller down the machine and jammed itself into a gap and is now doing its best to return to the same consistency as the wood it was originally made from
Mr
Of course it can. But this was a thread about NHS workers hence my comment.
And yes if they are calling people snowflakes who complain about working in this weather they should sit down and shut up because the chances are they aren't affected hence their stupid comments"But that is exactly my point. I am not saying it's easy, I'm not saying it is nice to work on a ward on a hot day. I'm saying that telling people to sit down and shut up, that their comments are stupid isn't any better than being called a snowflake. Personally, when I hear lots of people moaning about the physically difficulties, heat, uncomfortable conditions,long hours of their jobs I tend to have an internal roll of my eyes and think they haven't got a clue what those words really mean. Then again I also appreciate that while I've experienced snippets through voluntary work, I've never been exposed to shift after shift of dealing with death, suffering, anguish, grief or any other of a host of really mentally difficult working conditions. But I wouldn't take the minimal experience I have had and use that to justify telling others to sit down and shut up about with their stupid comments. Mr | |||
"With this hot weather the good folks who work for the NHS will be pushed to the limit,so let's tell the good ladies and lads to work a bit harder" Have you been sitting in the sun too long? Very strange to take this stance towards anyone who is being pushed to the limit. | |||
"Believe the OP is trying to highlight the ridiculous pressure and lack of resource the NHS is labouring under, and is sarcastically illustrating the only way our government seeks to answer it. Bugger. I thought I was the only one to detect the subtle hint of sarcasm. And by subtle I mean pretty bloody obvious.
A"I asked what the OP meant. It's not obvious if one doesn't know the poster and is new to the forum. And people do make some very stupid pronouncements here tbh. | |||
"Maybe the GP's could step up. In. My experience the majority if people in A&E could have been seen by a GP If the GP service hadn't suffered a huge loss of staff and wasn't on crisis that would probably be happening " Or if they actually let people into the surgery that would help. | |||
"Maybe the GP's could step up. In. My experience the majority if people in A&E could have been seen by a GP If the GP service hadn't suffered a huge loss of staff and wasn't on crisis that would probably be happening Or if they actually let people into the surgery that would help. " They are. | |||
"I wish people would stop calling those that complain about the heat snowflakes etc. If you've not worked a 13 hour shift in a hospital in full ppe sit your arse down and shut up. It's unbearable on wards in this weather. Tbf, the exact same can be said of many jobs. I can assure you that working on a paper machine, aluminium hot rolling mill or steel works (to pick 3 industries I've worked in) isn't too pleasant either. Not saying I agree with the OP (who I suspect was being ironic) but I certainly don't agree that people should sit their ass down and shut up if they've not worked on a ward in PPE for 13 hours. I'd take that any day over 2 am in the drying hood of a paper machine when you started work at 8am the day before, need to have your boiler suit and gloves on as every bit of metal you touch is still over 100°C even though the steam was shut off hours before. Oh, and while you're in there the actual job you have is to hack out a 5 meter x 2 meter x 0.5 meter slab of pulp that's mis-fed, sheared off a bunch of high tensile bolts,wedged a drive roller down the machine and jammed itself into a gap and is now doing its best to return to the same consistency as the wood it was originally made from
Mr
Of course it can. But this was a thread about NHS workers hence my comment.
And yes if they are calling people snowflakes who complain about working in this weather they should sit down and shut up because the chances are they aren't affected hence their stupid comments
But that is exactly my point. I am not saying it's easy, I'm not saying it is nice to work on a ward on a hot day. I'm saying that telling people to sit down and shut up, that their comments are stupid isn't any better than being called a snowflake. Personally, when I hear lots of people moaning about the physically difficulties, heat, uncomfortable conditions,long hours of their jobs I tend to have an internal roll of my eyes and think they haven't got a clue what those words really mean. Then again I also appreciate that while I've experienced snippets through voluntary work, I've never been exposed to shift after shift of dealing with death, suffering, anguish, grief or any other of a host of really mentally difficult working conditions. But I wouldn't take the minimal experience I have had and use that to justify telling others to sit down and shut up about with their stupid comments.
Mr"You've missed the point. Have a good day in this shitty heat. Hopefully it eases up soon. | |||
"Maybe the GP's could step up. In. My experience the majority if people in A&E could have been seen by a GP If the GP service hadn't suffered a huge loss of staff and wasn't on crisis that would probably be happening Or if they actually let people into the surgery that would help. They are. " Plus telephone appointments are practical in many cases | |||
"Maybe the GP's could step up. In. My experience the majority if people in A&E could have been seen by a GP If the GP service hadn't suffered a huge loss of staff and wasn't on crisis that would probably be happening Or if they actually let people into the surgery that would help. They are. Plus telephone appointments are practical in many cases" I prefer a phone appointment to be fair although today I rang. Needed a double appointment in person and got one. They can deal with more patients on the phone than in person especially with social distancing, extra cleaning etc during covid. Obviously there is the need for face to face appointments at times but hopefully people are still able to access these if they need to. | |||
"Maybe the GP's could step up. In. My experience the majority if people in A&E could have been seen by a GP If the GP service hadn't suffered a huge loss of staff and wasn't on crisis that would probably be happening Or if they actually let people into the surgery that would help. They are. " No not all of them are. Our doctors surgery last week had 2 patients inside I can assure you before the pandemic that never happened. Some of our GP's are still working from home. | |||
"Maybe the GP's could step up. In. My experience the majority if people in A&E could have been seen by a GP If the GP service hadn't suffered a huge loss of staff and wasn't on crisis that would probably be happening Or if they actually let people into the surgery that would help. They are. Plus telephone appointments are practical in many cases I prefer a phone appointment to be fair although today I rang. Needed a double appointment in person and got one. They can deal with more patients on the phone than in person especially with social distancing, extra cleaning etc during covid. Obviously there is the need for face to face appointments at times but hopefully people are still able to access these if they need to. " But the point is they re not always available for people that need to be seen. Phone the doctor's surgery and get told to go to A&E if you want an appointment within 2 weeks. | |||
"Maybe the GP's could step up. In. My experience the majority if people in A&E could have been seen by a GP If the GP service hadn't suffered a huge loss of staff and wasn't on crisis that would probably be happening Or if they actually let people into the surgery that would help. They are. " It's nigh on impossible to see a GP in person at my surgery. You can only get one if you run the 8am phonecall gauntlet, which is also impossible and a game of pure chance. I need to rearrange a blood test tomorrow because I have COVID but no-one is answering the phone and so I might look like a no show. Or, I could go in with COVID? | |||
"With this hot weather the good folks who work for the NHS will be pushed to the limit,so let's tell the good ladies and lads to work a bit harder"
Reduce their salary and offer an extra £2 a week for hard work. Incentives and reward. | |||
"Why are hospitals so hot? There needs to be more windows that open." Absolutely...and let all that cool A/C air flow out.  | |||
"Maybe the GP's could step up. In. My experience the majority if people in A&E could have been seen by a GP If the GP service hadn't suffered a huge loss of staff and wasn't on crisis that would probably be happening Or if they actually let people into the surgery that would help. They are. It's nigh on impossible to see a GP in person at my surgery. You can only get one if you run the 8am phonecall gauntlet, which is also impossible and a game of pure chance. I need to rearrange a blood test tomorrow because I have COVID but no-one is answering the phone and so I might look like a no show. Or, I could go in with COVID?" Same in my area. Monday is impossible to even speak to someone too. Hope you're doing ok with Covid? | |||
"Maybe the GP's could step up. In. My experience the majority if people in A&E could have been seen by a GP If the GP service hadn't suffered a huge loss of staff and wasn't on crisis that would probably be happening Or if they actually let people into the surgery that would help. They are. Plus telephone appointments are practical in many cases I prefer a phone appointment to be fair although today I rang. Needed a double appointment in person and got one. They can deal with more patients on the phone than in person especially with social distancing, extra cleaning etc during covid. Obviously there is the need for face to face appointments at times but hopefully people are still able to access these if they need to. " During covid my GP did an asthma review over the phone which was a bit ridiculous. But generally I think the way surgeries operate is much better now. I've been under the care of my GP for 3 months with mental health issues and they've spoken to me far more regularly than I expect they would have with face to face appointments, they also facilitated an emergency face to face appointment when I was in crisis. I think that's an excellent balance personally. Also anyone in full time employment it's often far easier to spend 10 minutes on the phone than far longer away from your place of work to attend a face to face consultation I'm not sure why people think face to face is better other than that's how it has always been | |||
"Maybe the GP's could step up. In. My experience the majority if people in A&E could have been seen by a GP If the GP service hadn't suffered a huge loss of staff and wasn't on crisis that would probably be happening Or if they actually let people into the surgery that would help. They are. It's nigh on impossible to see a GP in person at my surgery. You can only get one if you run the 8am phonecall gauntlet, which is also impossible and a game of pure chance. I need to rearrange a blood test tomorrow because I have COVID but no-one is answering the phone and so I might look like a no show. Or, I could go in with COVID?" Can't yiu contact them via an e-consult on the NHS website? | |||
"I'm not knocking the NHS or any of the staff that work there. You do a fabulous job, highly respected by all and (with all due respect) I hope I never have to use your services. Has anyone else noticed how close to 'breaking point' the media repeatedly say the NHS is, yet it doesn't reach breaking point'. Does this mean that the point of actual breaking point keeps being pushed back? If it did 'break' what does this mean? that the NHS can't treat anyone else? Would this really happen? Seems unlikely to me. We may have to wait longer for treatment, but breaking point means if it actually broke, it can no longer be of any use? thoughts?" So, we saw some years ago that some wards - particularly maternity - were closed to new admissions and that although NHS trusts have a legal obligation to provide midwives for a homebirth, some of them were not able to meet that obligation. And that was before brexit/covid. We’re also already seeing a rise in the number of people taking legal action against the NHS - so based on events before the pandemic or brexit. What we’re seeing today and tomorrow is that every single ambulance trust has declared a major incident, which means that response times will not meet target and several people will die unnecessarily. The long term consequences are going to be a fall in life expectancy and a rise in people dying from treatable conditions, plus aggravation of the funding crisis as people struggle to deal with the aftermath of preventable illness. | |||
"Maybe the GP's could step up. In. My experience the majority if people in A&E could have been seen by a GP If the GP service hadn't suffered a huge loss of staff and wasn't on crisis that would probably be happening Or if they actually let people into the surgery that would help. They are. Plus telephone appointments are practical in many cases I prefer a phone appointment to be fair although today I rang. Needed a double appointment in person and got one. They can deal with more patients on the phone than in person especially with social distancing, extra cleaning etc during covid. Obviously there is the need for face to face appointments at times but hopefully people are still able to access these if they need to. During covid my GP did an asthma review over the phone which was a bit ridiculous. But generally I think the way surgeries operate is much better now. I've been under the care of my GP for 3 months with mental health issues and they've spoken to me far more regularly than I expect they would have with face to face appointments, they also facilitated an emergency face to face appointment when I was in crisis. I think that's an excellent balance personally. Also anyone in full time employment it's often far easier to spend 10 minutes on the phone than far longer away from your place of work to attend a face to face consultation I'm not sure why people think face to face is better other than that's how it has always been" Many people in full time employment can't spend an hour on the phone waiting to get to the front of the phone queue to be then either cut off or told to call the next day at 8am. | |||
"Maybe the GP's could step up. In. My experience the majority if people in A&E could have been seen by a GP If the GP service hadn't suffered a huge loss of staff and wasn't on crisis that would probably be happening Or if they actually let people into the surgery that would help. They are. Plus telephone appointments are practical in many cases I prefer a phone appointment to be fair although today I rang. Needed a double appointment in person and got one. They can deal with more patients on the phone than in person especially with social distancing, extra cleaning etc during covid. Obviously there is the need for face to face appointments at times but hopefully people are still able to access these if they need to. During covid my GP did an asthma review over the phone which was a bit ridiculous. But generally I think the way surgeries operate is much better now. I've been under the care of my GP for 3 months with mental health issues and they've spoken to me far more regularly than I expect they would have with face to face appointments, they also facilitated an emergency face to face appointment when I was in crisis. I think that's an excellent balance personally. Also anyone in full time employment it's often far easier to spend 10 minutes on the phone than far longer away from your place of work to attend a face to face consultation I'm not sure why people think face to face is better other than that's how it has always been" Because unless you can see somebody in person it is difficult to know exactly what is going on with them but is hardly breaking news. If People want a telephone appointment fine but if people want to be seen by a doctor that should happen. | |||
"With this hot weather the good folks who work for the NHS will be pushed to the limit,so let's tell the good ladies and lads to work a bit harder" Well said sir. I'm actually working in a hospital today and I have to report that I turned down the A/C in a room I was using, it was freezing but you will be pleased to hear I did work much harder to try to get some warmth around this worn out body of mine. Thanks for reminding me how much support we get, did wonder what would happen once the clapping died down. On the upside I'm earning a fortune on extra clinics, sure that brings pleasure to all
Must go, work to do. | |||
"Maybe the GP's could step up. In. My experience the majority if people in A&E could have been seen by a GP If the GP service hadn't suffered a huge loss of staff and wasn't on crisis that would probably be happening Or if they actually let people into the surgery that would help. They are. Plus telephone appointments are practical in many cases I prefer a phone appointment to be fair although today I rang. Needed a double appointment in person and got one. They can deal with more patients on the phone than in person especially with social distancing, extra cleaning etc during covid. Obviously there is the need for face to face appointments at times but hopefully people are still able to access these if they need to. During covid my GP did an asthma review over the phone which was a bit ridiculous. But generally I think the way surgeries operate is much better now. I've been under the care of my GP for 3 months with mental health issues and they've spoken to me far more regularly than I expect they would have with face to face appointments, they also facilitated an emergency face to face appointment when I was in crisis. I think that's an excellent balance personally. Also anyone in full time employment it's often far easier to spend 10 minutes on the phone than far longer away from your place of work to attend a face to face consultation I'm not sure why people think face to face is better other than that's how it has always been Because unless you can see somebody in person it is difficult to know exactly what is going on with them but is hardly breaking news. If People want a telephone appointment fine but if people want to be seen by a doctor that should happen. " There is a difference between wanting and needing a face to face appointment though | |||
"I'm not knocking the NHS or any of the staff that work there. You do a fabulous job, highly respected by all and (with all due respect) I hope I never have to use your services. Has anyone else noticed how close to 'breaking point' the media repeatedly say the NHS is, yet it doesn't reach breaking point'. Does this mean that the point of actual breaking point keeps being pushed back? If it did 'break' what does this mean? that the NHS can't treat anyone else? Would this really happen? Seems unlikely to me. We may have to wait longer for treatment, but breaking point means if it actually broke, it can no longer be of any use? thoughts? So, we saw some years ago that some wards - particularly maternity - were closed to new admissions and that although NHS trusts have a legal obligation to provide midwives for a homebirth, some of them were not able to meet that obligation. And that was before brexit/covid. We’re also already seeing a rise in the number of people taking legal action against the NHS - so based on events before the pandemic or brexit. What we’re seeing today and tomorrow is that every single ambulance trust has declared a major incident, which means that response times will not meet target and several people will die unnecessarily. The long term consequences are going to be a fall in life expectancy and a rise in people dying from treatable conditions, plus aggravation of the funding crisis as people struggle to deal with the aftermath of preventable illness. " The NHS has been starved of funds as compared with demand and we'll all suffer for it, particularly given the cost of living crisis that makes private care out of more people's reach | |||
"Maybe the GP's could step up. In. My experience the majority if people in A&E could have been seen by a GP If the GP service hadn't suffered a huge loss of staff and wasn't on crisis that would probably be happening Or if they actually let people into the surgery that would help. They are. Plus telephone appointments are practical in many cases I prefer a phone appointment to be fair although today I rang. Needed a double appointment in person and got one. They can deal with more patients on the phone than in person especially with social distancing, extra cleaning etc during covid. Obviously there is the need for face to face appointments at times but hopefully people are still able to access these if they need to. During covid my GP did an asthma review over the phone which was a bit ridiculous. But generally I think the way surgeries operate is much better now. I've been under the care of my GP for 3 months with mental health issues and they've spoken to me far more regularly than I expect they would have with face to face appointments, they also facilitated an emergency face to face appointment when I was in crisis. I think that's an excellent balance personally. Also anyone in full time employment it's often far easier to spend 10 minutes on the phone than far longer away from your place of work to attend a face to face consultation I'm not sure why people think face to face is better other than that's how it has always been Because unless you can see somebody in person it is difficult to know exactly what is going on with them but is hardly breaking news. If People want a telephone appointment fine but if people want to be seen by a doctor that should happen. There is a difference between wanting and needing a face to face appointment though" No there isn't. So at the moment if you want a face-to-face appointment you have to spend ages trying to get through to the surgery or refreshing the appointments page, To be told a doctor will phone you back For telephone consultation, If the doctor wants to see you they will book an appointment it just seems really unefficient. Hospitals are struggling and part of the reason is because people cannot see their gp. | |||
"Maybe the GP's could step up. In. My experience the majority if people in A&E could have been seen by a GP If the GP service hadn't suffered a huge loss of staff and wasn't on crisis that would probably be happening Or if they actually let people into the surgery that would help. They are. Plus telephone appointments are practical in many cases I prefer a phone appointment to be fair although today I rang. Needed a double appointment in person and got one. They can deal with more patients on the phone than in person especially with social distancing, extra cleaning etc during covid. Obviously there is the need for face to face appointments at times but hopefully people are still able to access these if they need to. During covid my GP did an asthma review over the phone which was a bit ridiculous. But generally I think the way surgeries operate is much better now. I've been under the care of my GP for 3 months with mental health issues and they've spoken to me far more regularly than I expect they would have with face to face appointments, they also facilitated an emergency face to face appointment when I was in crisis. I think that's an excellent balance personally. Also anyone in full time employment it's often far easier to spend 10 minutes on the phone than far longer away from your place of work to attend a face to face consultation I'm not sure why people think face to face is better other than that's how it has always been Because unless you can see somebody in person it is difficult to know exactly what is going on with them but is hardly breaking news. If People want a telephone appointment fine but if people want to be seen by a doctor that should happen. There is a difference between wanting and needing a face to face appointment though No there isn't. So at the moment if you want a face-to-face appointment you have to spend ages trying to get through to the surgery or refreshing the appointments page, To be told a doctor will phone you back For telephone consultation, If the doctor wants to see you they will book an appointment it just seems really unefficient. Hospitals are struggling and part of the reason is because people cannot see their gp. " I’m sorry, but you’re wrong. Hospitals were already struggling before the pandemic. Underfunding and staff retention have been problems for a while. | |||
"Maybe the GP's could step up. In. My experience the majority if people in A&E could have been seen by a GP If the GP service hadn't suffered a huge loss of staff and wasn't on crisis that would probably be happening Or if they actually let people into the surgery that would help. They are. Plus telephone appointments are practical in many cases I prefer a phone appointment to be fair although today I rang. Needed a double appointment in person and got one. They can deal with more patients on the phone than in person especially with social distancing, extra cleaning etc during covid. Obviously there is the need for face to face appointments at times but hopefully people are still able to access these if they need to. During covid my GP did an asthma review over the phone which was a bit ridiculous. But generally I think the way surgeries operate is much better now. I've been under the care of my GP for 3 months with mental health issues and they've spoken to me far more regularly than I expect they would have with face to face appointments, they also facilitated an emergency face to face appointment when I was in crisis. I think that's an excellent balance personally. Also anyone in full time employment it's often far easier to spend 10 minutes on the phone than far longer away from your place of work to attend a face to face consultation I'm not sure why people think face to face is better other than that's how it has always been" Well, my blood tests can't be done on the phone but I can't get through to deal with it. The issues I have with my bad leg often need in person neurological assessment - you can't do this on the phone. Yes, there are plenty of times when phone appointments are okay but even then, you have to actually get through on the phone to make one! Our surgery scrapped all online appointment booking at the start of COVID and did not reinstate it. We can only make appointments by getting through on the (impossible) phone line or by submitting an online form that takes many days to be addressed AND if you answer honestly, prevents submission and tells you to go to A&E. An example, if I admit to having numbness in my foot, it won't let me submit. It tells me it's a medical emergency and to call an ambulance. It's NOT a medical emergency in my case, I've had it for over 5yrs, so the online form is utterly useless in many such cases. It also won't accept a form being submitted in you admit to having active suicidal thoughts. | |||
"Maybe the GP's could step up. In. My experience the majority if people in A&E could have been seen by a GP If the GP service hadn't suffered a huge loss of staff and wasn't on crisis that would probably be happening Or if they actually let people into the surgery that would help. They are. It's nigh on impossible to see a GP in person at my surgery. You can only get one if you run the 8am phonecall gauntlet, which is also impossible and a game of pure chance. I need to rearrange a blood test tomorrow because I have COVID but no-one is answering the phone and so I might look like a no show. Or, I could go in with COVID? Can't yiu contact them via an e-consult on the NHS website? " See my most recent comments about the online forms. I can't rearrange my blood test via those forms. We don't have any online appointment booking facilities anymore. | |||
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"With this hot weather the good folks who work for the NHS will be pushed to the limit,so let's tell the good ladies and lads to work a bit harder" Lets bang saucepans and clap hands at 7. | |||
"If you want to fix the problems in your local hospital, sort out social care. You can't bring anyone through the front door if you can't get people out the back, it's that simple. Nothing really to do with hospital funding, bit too simplistic. It's down to the fact that people who don't need medical intervention shouldn't be in hospital. Can't conduct surgery unless you have a bed to put them in post op, if that bed is taken by a lovely person who needs social care, it's a non starter. Everyone wants to care for old mum and dad until the day arrives when you do actually need to look after them and it's a different story. Bit like on FAB, everyone is up for a meet until someone says let's meet and it's run for cover. Same old, same old. "Think is most don’t live anywhere near mum or dad no care for the elderly wards anymore and care at home is next to useless 15 minute vists no meals on wheels etc just bang in microwave meals that taste and look awful. What they need is social interaction and someone to cook proper meals and care | |||
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"I'm not knocking the NHS or any of the staff that work there. You do a fabulous job, highly respected by all and (with all due respect) I hope I never have to use your services. Has anyone else noticed how close to 'breaking point' the media repeatedly say the NHS is, yet it doesn't reach breaking point'. Does this mean that the point of actual breaking point keeps being pushed back? If it did 'break' what does this mean? that the NHS can't treat anyone else? Would this really happen? Seems unlikely to me. We may have to wait longer for treatment, but breaking point means if it actually broke, it can no longer be of any use? thoughts?" I think this is actually the main point. The NHS isn't close to breaking point, it has gone way past that and is broken and no longer fit for purpose. As the comments above show, getting an appointment to see a doctor is next to impossible, if you have a serious injury or health emergency in much of the country there's a good chance you'll die before you get an ambulance* - these two facts alone mean it is broken. It is supposed to be a free at the point of use health service for everyone. It isn't. It is a free at the point of use service for those lucky enough to get seen. More and more people are turning to private health care because either the service they need is unavailable or is unavailable until sometime next century. This isn't a complaint about the people who work in the service, it is a complaint at our political leaders and our press who have allowed this situation to develop with barely a whimper of complaint. How have we reached a point where ambulance response times are measured in hours without it being constantly challenged in parliament? We hear howls of protest at the idea of "selling off" the NHS but haven't noticed that what is actually happening is the introduction of a tiered health system through stealth. If you're lucky enough to be able to afford it you can get first class private health care. There is no need to sell the NHS when you can buy healthcare elsewhere - all you do is make the service so low that people choose to buy something better voluntarily. It won't be long until the same arguments against universal health care that are common in the US become the norm here. That is the argument, "why should I have to pay into a system when I already spend a fortune on my own health insurance?" A two tier system is fine when the number in the upper tier is low, they may have a lot more political clout but it doesn't outweigh the voting power of the masses. Once the number of people in that top tier (those who are paying for their own health care) reaches a tipping point then universal health care becomes impossible as it is in the US. You can't get enough people to want to pay for a few random strangers when they and everyone they know are already paying for themselves. The problem is, this is a fine opinion to hold as an ethical stance, it doesn't stop me/my family paying for procedures privately because we don't want to suffer/watch loved ones suffer. This means that even though I believe that relatively cheap, and easily available private health care is ultimately the biggest threat to the NHS I will still use it myself and thus help fulfil my own fears 
Mr | |||
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"If we clap harder for them it might make them immune to the heat, and work harder. We should try it for the politicians first " Yes Slap harder | |||
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"If you want to fix the problems in your local hospital, sort out social care. You can't bring anyone through the front door if you can't get people out the back, it's that simple. Nothing really to do with hospital funding, bit too simplistic. It's down to the fact that people who don't need medical intervention shouldn't be in hospital. Can't conduct surgery unless you have a bed to put them in post op, if that bed is taken by a lovely person who needs social care, it's a non starter. Everyone wants to care for old mum and dad until the day arrives when you do actually need to look after them and it's a different story. Bit like on FAB, everyone is up for a meet until someone says let's meet and it's run for cover. Same old, same old. "I find your attitude about elder care very dismissive and presumptuous. My Dad currently needs home care but is bed blocking in hospital due to the lack of social care. He's 83, with dementia and a broken neck. He has chosen to live over an hour away from me. I am disabled myself. I have to work FT to support my own family. How the heck am I supposed to care for him? He made zero provision for his own care - no insurance, nothing. I could hold his selfishness and inadequacy as a father against him (I don't) but I honestly cannot provide the care he currently needs. He has next to no other family, just me and my brother (also currently responsible for an unwell child, FT work to support his young family etc). | |||
"Maybe the GP's could step up. In. My experience the majority if people in A&E could have been seen by a GP If the GP service hadn't suffered a huge loss of staff and wasn't on crisis that would probably be happening Or if they actually let people into the surgery that would help. They are. Plus telephone appointments are practical in many cases I prefer a phone appointment to be fair although today I rang. Needed a double appointment in person and got one. They can deal with more patients on the phone than in person especially with social distancing, extra cleaning etc during covid. Obviously there is the need for face to face appointments at times but hopefully people are still able to access these if they need to. During covid my GP did an asthma review over the phone which was a bit ridiculous. But generally I think the way surgeries operate is much better now. I've been under the care of my GP for 3 months with mental health issues and they've spoken to me far more regularly than I expect they would have with face to face appointments, they also facilitated an emergency face to face appointment when I was in crisis. I think that's an excellent balance personally. Also anyone in full time employment it's often far easier to spend 10 minutes on the phone than far longer away from your place of work to attend a face to face consultation I'm not sure why people think face to face is better other than that's how it has always been Because unless you can see somebody in person it is difficult to know exactly what is going on with them but is hardly breaking news. If People want a telephone appointment fine but if people want to be seen by a doctor that should happen. There is a difference between wanting and needing a face to face appointment though No there isn't. So at the moment if you want a face-to-face appointment you have to spend ages trying to get through to the surgery or refreshing the appointments page, To be told a doctor will phone you back For telephone consultation, If the doctor wants to see you they will book an appointment it just seems really unefficient. Hospitals are struggling and part of the reason is because people cannot see their gp. I’m sorry, but you’re wrong. Hospitals were already struggling before the pandemic. Underfunding and staff retention have been problems for a while. " Well I'm not wrong though am I, because yes they were struggling before but hospitals have publicly cited this as one of the are struggling even more. | |||
"If you want to fix the problems in your local hospital, sort out social care. You can't bring anyone through the front door if you can't get people out the back, it's that simple. Nothing really to do with hospital funding, bit too simplistic. It's down to the fact that people who don't need medical intervention shouldn't be in hospital. Can't conduct surgery unless you have a bed to put them in post op, if that bed is taken by a lovely person who needs social care, it's a non starter. Everyone wants to care for old mum and dad until the day arrives when you do actually need to look after them and it's a different story. Bit like on FAB, everyone is up for a meet until someone says let's meet and it's run for cover. Same old, same old.
I find your attitude about elder care very dismissive and presumptuous.
My Dad currently needs home care but is bed blocking in hospital due to the lack of social care. He's 83, with dementia and a broken neck. He has chosen to live over an hour away from me. I am disabled myself. I have to work FT to support my own family. How the heck am I supposed to care for him? He made zero provision for his own care - no insurance, nothing. I could hold his selfishness and inadequacy as a father against him (I don't) but I honestly cannot provide the care he currently needs. He has next to no other family, just me and my brother (also currently responsible for an unwell child, FT work to support his young family etc)."People will not understand until they're in the position themselves. | |||
"If you want to fix the problems in your local hospital, sort out social care. You can't bring anyone through the front door if you can't get people out the back, it's that simple. Nothing really to do with hospital funding, bit too simplistic. It's down to the fact that people who don't need medical intervention shouldn't be in hospital. Can't conduct surgery unless you have a bed to put them in post op, if that bed is taken by a lovely person who needs social care, it's a non starter. Everyone wants to care for old mum and dad until the day arrives when you do actually need to look after them and it's a different story. Bit like on FAB, everyone is up for a meet until someone says let's meet and it's run for cover. Same old, same old.
I find your attitude about elder care very dismissive and presumptuous.
My Dad currently needs home care but is bed blocking in hospital due to the lack of social care. He's 83, with dementia and a broken neck. He has chosen to live over an hour away from me. I am disabled myself. I have to work FT to support my own family. How the heck am I supposed to care for him? He made zero provision for his own care - no insurance, nothing. I could hold his selfishness and inadequacy as a father against him (I don't) but I honestly cannot provide the care he currently needs. He has next to no other family, just me and my brother (also currently responsible for an unwell child, FT work to support his young family etc).
People will not understand until they're in the position themselves. "This. It's all well and good unless you live over an hour away, Work full time, Have a young family, Or the person that needs care has complex needs that you cannot meet. | |||
"Maybe the GP's could step up. In. My experience the majority if people in A&E could have been seen by a GP" That's correct a colleague and myself have been chasing our MP over that. I attended an A&E recently not by choice and there were an average of 54 people in there 50% of those should have been seen by a GP and not been at the A&E. We were there 10 1/2 hours Tier 1 care (GP's) have failed! What the hell are they doing?? | |||
"Maybe the GP's could step up. In. My experience the majority if people in A&E could have been seen by a GP That's correct a colleague and myself have been chasing our MP over that. I attended an A&E recently not by choice and there were an average of 54 people in there 50% of those should have been seen by a GP and not been at the A&E. We were there 10 1/2 hours Tier 1 care (GP's) have failed! What the hell are they doing?? "My Dad was in A&E for over 18hrs with a broken neck. He was waiting for admission for the majority of that time. | |||
"Maybe the GP's could step up. In. My experience the majority if people in A&E could have been seen by a GP That's correct a colleague and myself have been chasing our MP over that. I attended an A&E recently not by choice and there were an average of 54 people in there 50% of those should have been seen by a GP and not been at the A&E. We were there 10 1/2 hours Tier 1 care (GP's) have failed! What the hell are they doing??
My Dad was in A&E for over 18hrs with a broken neck. He was waiting for admission for the majority of that time."Same for me we only got out because we didn't wait to be properly discharged in the end like quiet a few we just walked out. In my case hobbling on crutches and with a head injury. The called us when they realised we'd left and we explained why. So we had to do a discharge over the fone and promised we'd get in touch with my GP at home. Most of that was 95% waiting no actual treatment. | |||
"I wish people would stop calling those that complain about the heat snowflakes etc. If you've not worked a 13 hour shift in a hospital in full ppe sit your arse down and shut up. It's unbearable on wards in this weather. " I agree I spent two weeks in harefield heart hospital at the height of the first lockdown two years ago, it was unbelievably hot. They couldn't put on the air conditioning becay of a possible risk of spreading COVID. The windows were from floor to ceiling as well so sunlight was amplified. The curtains had to be kept closed. It's not nice having a triple bypass and then being in a room that's oppressively hot. Same thing last year during the euro's. A bit of a problem needed ten days in hospital. The temperature in the bay I was in was 41 Celsius. The staff were knackered and wearing a face mask all day must of been horrible for them. They tried to make people as comfy as possible and some raided the ice machine on the private ward for us. Because it was a cardiac ward they managed to get in more desk top fans which helped. For someone to be suffering from the heat to put the care of others before their own wellbeing is amazing and the staff always had a smile even though you could see they were struggling. I can't imagine how harsh it is on the wards at my local hospital today. Quite a few windows only open a couple of inches and the only air con I've seen are in ITU and in the recovery room of the angio labs. | |||
"Sorry, but what's the aim of this thread OP?
Probably to cause arguments as usual "Absolutely what an idiotic post | |||
"Maybe the GP's could step up. In. My experience the majority if people in A&E could have been seen by a GP That's correct a colleague and myself have been chasing our MP over that. I attended an A&E recently not by choice and there were an average of 54 people in there 50% of those should have been seen by a GP and not been at the A&E. We were there 10 1/2 hours Tier 1 care (GP's) have failed! What the hell are they doing??
My Dad was in A&E for over 18hrs with a broken neck. He was waiting for admission for the majority of that time.
Same for me we only got out because we didn't wait to be properly discharged in the end like quiet a few we just walked out.
In my case hobbling on crutches and with a head injury.
The called us when they realised we'd left and we explained why.
So we had to do a discharge over the fone and promised we'd get in touch with my GP at home.
Most of that was 95% waiting no actual treatment."NHS is great isn't it. | |||
"Believe the OP is trying to highlight the ridiculous pressure and lack of resource the NHS is labouring under, and is sarcastically illustrating the only way our government seeks to answer it."
Whooooosh over their heads..... | |||
"Believe the OP is trying to highlight the ridiculous pressure and lack of resource the NHS is labouring under, and is sarcastically illustrating the only way our government seeks to answer it." Lack of resource? 190 billion. That's 3000 pounds per year for every man woman and child in the country. Just think about that for a moment. Our dogmatic approach to our health care is ludicrous. | |||
"Believe the OP is trying to highlight the ridiculous pressure and lack of resource the NHS is labouring under, and is sarcastically illustrating the only way our government seeks to answer it. Bugger. I thought I was the only one to detect the subtle hint of sarcasm. And by subtle I mean pretty bloody obvious.
A
I asked what the OP meant. It's not obvious if one doesn't know the poster and is new to the forum. And people do make some very stupid pronouncements here tbh. "Therein lies the issue. It's the manner in which it is asked; whether it is asking for clarification or more of a pronouncement based on an assumption of guilt. In your case, to my eyes, your question was asking for clarification except for the emoji added at the end, which suggested it was an assumption. Did I misread it? | |||
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"If you want to fix the problems in your local hospital, sort out social care. You can't bring anyone through the front door if you can't get people out the back, it's that simple. Nothing really to do with hospital funding, bit too simplistic. It's down to the fact that people who don't need medical intervention shouldn't be in hospital. Can't conduct surgery unless you have a bed to put them in post op, if that bed is taken by a lovely person who needs social care, it's a non starter. Everyone wants to care for old mum and dad until the day arrives when you do actually need to look after them and it's a different story. Bit like on FAB, everyone is up for a meet until someone says let's meet and it's run for cover. Same old, same old.
I find your attitude about elder care very dismissive and presumptuous.
My Dad currently needs home care but is bed blocking in hospital due to the lack of social care. He's 83, with dementia and a broken neck. He has chosen to live over an hour away from me. I am disabled myself. I have to work FT to support my own family. How the heck am I supposed to care for him? He made zero provision for his own care - no insurance, nothing. I could hold his selfishness and inadequacy as a father against him (I don't) but I honestly cannot provide the care he currently needs. He has next to no other family, just me and my brother (also currently responsible for an unwell child, FT work to support his young family etc)."Thanks for your response. Sorry you see it that way and I'm sure if your personal circumstances were different you would have no problem caring for your Dad. My comment was not aimed at everyone but I see and hear on a daily basis families who feel they have no responsibility towards their elderly and sometimes not so old family members. Indeed, I have been told on several occasions if mum or dad used private care it would wipe out their inheritance and they do it with a straight face. I stick to my view that unless social care has a major overhaul. With us all living longer and some of us are living longer and not in such good health the costs in future years will be astronomical. We can either separate social care or join it up with mainstream NHS care, I doubt any government would jump for that option. Sorry to hear about your dad, I can understand as I had care issues with my Dad before he passed away. It is a challenge. | |||
"Believe the OP is trying to highlight the ridiculous pressure and lack of resource the NHS is labouring under, and is sarcastically illustrating the only way our government seeks to answer it. Lack of resource? 190 billion. That's 3000 pounds per year for every man woman and child in the country. Just think about that for a moment. Our dogmatic approach to our health care is ludicrous. " How much do you think healthcare costs?
I'd be stunned if full private health cover (as in, not just "send anything hard back to the NHS", and yeah, you still pay out of pocket on top of that) is less than double that. | |||
"Believe the OP is trying to highlight the ridiculous pressure and lack of resource the NHS is labouring under, and is sarcastically illustrating the only way our government seeks to answer it. Lack of resource? 190 billion. That's 3000 pounds per year for every man woman and child in the country. Just think about that for a moment. Our dogmatic approach to our health care is ludicrous. How much do you think healthcare costs?
I'd be stunned if full private health cover (as in, not just "send anything hard back to the NHS", and yeah, you still pay out of pocket on top of that) is less than double that."How much do you think it costs as you imply you know thta it's not 3000 per year.? | |||
"Believe the OP is trying to highlight the ridiculous pressure and lack of resource the NHS is labouring under, and is sarcastically illustrating the only way our government seeks to answer it. Lack of resource? 190 billion. That's 3000 pounds per year for every man woman and child in the country. Just think about that for a moment. Our dogmatic approach to our health care is ludicrous. How much do you think healthcare costs?
I'd be stunned if full private health cover (as in, not just "send anything hard back to the NHS", and yeah, you still pay out of pocket on top of that) is less than double that.
How much do you think it costs as you imply you know thta it's not 3000 per year.? "I'm from Australia, as you know. Ten years ago I was in Australia and needed emergency surgery (for Australian dollars, rule of thumb, halve for pounds). On top of my $6k a year health insurance, I paid $2000 out of pocket. A close relative needs urgent surgery or she'll go blind. She doesn't have $40-50k to throw at the problem. And this is junior doctor with public health waiting times. (She has health insurance) And that's not counting the fact that GPs can cost $50-100 a go, specialists $150-$fuck off, scans and tests extra, prescriptions based on the cost to the health service. Some prescriptions can be five figures *a month*. | |||
"Believe the OP is trying to highlight the ridiculous pressure and lack of resource the NHS is labouring under, and is sarcastically illustrating the only way our government seeks to answer it. Lack of resource? 190 billion. That's 3000 pounds per year for every man woman and child in the country. Just think about that for a moment. Our dogmatic approach to our health care is ludicrous. How much do you think healthcare costs?
I'd be stunned if full private health cover (as in, not just "send anything hard back to the NHS", and yeah, you still pay out of pocket on top of that) is less than double that.
How much do you think it costs as you imply you know thta it's not 3000 per year.?
I'm from Australia, as you know.
Ten years ago I was in Australia and needed emergency surgery (for Australian dollars, rule of thumb, halve for pounds). On top of my $6k a year health insurance, I paid $2000 out of pocket.
A close relative needs urgent surgery or she'll go blind. She doesn't have $40-50k to throw at the problem. And this is junior doctor with public health waiting times. (She has health insurance)
And that's not counting the fact that GPs can cost $50-100 a go, specialists $150-$fuck off, scans and tests extra, prescriptions based on the cost to the health service. Some prescriptions can be five figures *a month*."And Australia has limits on private profit. America makes Australia look like they're giving it away for free | |||
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"Maybe the GP's could step up. In. My experience the majority if people in A&E could have been seen by a GP If the GP service hadn't suffered a huge loss of staff and wasn't on crisis that would probably be happening Or if they actually let people into the surgery that would help. They are. It's nigh on impossible to see a GP in person at my surgery. You can only get one if you run the 8am phonecall gauntlet, which is also impossible and a game of pure chance. I need to rearrange a blood test tomorrow because I have COVID but no-one is answering the phone and so I might look like a no show. Or, I could go in with COVID?" I totally agree about the 8 am phone call hunger games, it is an abysmal way to run a doctor's surgery. I'm very pleased that my own doctors dragged themselves into the 21st century at the start of the pandemic and installed an internet contact system that so far has worked brilliantly for me. We have a secure messaging system that leads the user through a short sequence of prompts to describe the reason that they want to contact a doctor, enter details of symptoms and even add photos if appropriate. The doctor calls back within half a day, a full day tops, gets more information as necessary and then either prescribes medication immediately or calls you in for a face to face the same day. Prescriptions are computer blipped direct to the local pharmacy and are waiting to be picked up by the time I get there, or they will home deliver for anyone that is unable to go and collect. I have found that I can put a message into the doctor on a Sunday, and by Monday lunchtime have had an initial diagnosis and treatment. Under the old system it was a nightmare even getting as far as the receptionist to book an appointment, as you say Mrs KC, and then it would often not be possible to see a doctor until at least a week later. It's appalling that these type of systems do not seem to have been universally rolled out, as it undoubtedly both gives a far improved patient experience and allows the doctors to make much better usage of their time. I do realise that there are still a lot of people that have difficulty in using computer systems or mobile phone apps, but this is as well as, rather than instead of, the old phone call method. And it frees up the phone lines for use by those who can only contact the surgery that way. | |||
"Comparison after comparison shows that Socialised medicine is cheaper than private. The NHS is MUCH cheaper (in our taxes) than it would be privately (out of pocket). How is this even a debate?" Right wing media and people having no idea how lucky they are. You get the care when you need it, and you don't have to wait and see if you can afford the bill or not. | |||
"Comparison after comparison shows that Socialised medicine is cheaper than private. The NHS is MUCH cheaper (in our taxes) than it would be privately (out of pocket). How is this even a debate?" I'm not sure it is? Doesn't alter the fact that the NHS is in a dire state and not for for purpose. 12 years of savagely hacking social budgets have left it a shambles. Mr | |||
"Comparison after comparison shows that Socialised medicine is cheaper than private. The NHS is MUCH cheaper (in our taxes) than it would be privately (out of pocket). How is this even a debate? I'm not sure it is? Doesn't alter the fact that the NHS is in a dire state and not for for purpose. 12 years of savagely hacking social budgets have left it a shambles. Mr" Yes. But we should look at the vandals, not what they've vandalised, for blame. | |||
"Maybe the GP's could step up. In. My experience the majority if people in A&E could have been seen by a GP If the GP service hadn't suffered a huge loss of staff and wasn't on crisis that would probably be happening Or if they actually let people into the surgery that would help. They are. It's nigh on impossible to see a GP in person at my surgery. You can only get one if you run the 8am phonecall gauntlet, which is also impossible and a game of pure chance. I need to rearrange a blood test tomorrow because I have COVID but no-one is answering the phone and so I might look like a no show. Or, I could go in with COVID? Can't yiu contact them via an e-consult on the NHS website? See my most recent comments about the online forms. I can't rearrange my blood test via those forms. We don't have any online appointment booking facilities anymore. " I'm really sorry about this Mrs KC. It seems that while my surgery went in one direction in response to the pandemic, yours has taken many steps backwards.  | |||
"Maybe the GP's could step up. In. My experience the majority if people in A&E could have been seen by a GP If the GP service hadn't suffered a huge loss of staff and wasn't on crisis that would probably be happening Or if they actually let people into the surgery that would help. They are. It's nigh on impossible to see a GP in person at my surgery. You can only get one if you run the 8am phonecall gauntlet, which is also impossible and a game of pure chance. I need to rearrange a blood test tomorrow because I have COVID but no-one is answering the phone and so I might look like a no show. Or, I could go in with COVID? Can't yiu contact them via an e-consult on the NHS website? See my most recent comments about the online forms. I can't rearrange my blood test via those forms. We don't have any online appointment booking facilities anymore. I'm really sorry about this Mrs KC. It seems that while my surgery went in one direction in response to the pandemic, yours has taken many steps backwards. "The postcode lottery of the NHS is a real problem. I have a similar experience to Polly, and I find the pandemic adaptations a vast improvement. | |||
"Comparison after comparison shows that Socialised medicine is cheaper than private. The NHS is MUCH cheaper (in our taxes) than it would be privately (out of pocket). How is this even a debate? I'm not sure it is? Doesn't alter the fact that the NHS is in a dire state and not for for purpose. 12 years of savagely hacking social budgets have left it a shambles. Mr Yes. But we should look at the vandals, not what they've vandalised, for blame." Look at all this broken glass, you know who is to blame for whis? Windows! not the baseball bats! | |||
"Comparison after comparison shows that Socialised medicine is cheaper than private. The NHS is MUCH cheaper (in our taxes) than it would be privately (out of pocket). How is this even a debate? I'm not sure it is? Doesn't alter the fact that the NHS is in a dire state and not for for purpose. 12 years of savagely hacking social budgets have left it a shambles. Mr Yes. But we should look at the vandals, not what they've vandalised, for blame. Look at all this broken glass, you know who is to blame for whis? Windows! not the baseball bats!" The Tories have tricked a lot of people into believing that they haven't been in power for 12 years. That they're not responsible for their policies and actions. It's beyond belief. | |||
"Comparison after comparison shows that Socialised medicine is cheaper than private. The NHS is MUCH cheaper (in our taxes) than it would be privately (out of pocket). How is this even a debate? I'm not sure it is? Doesn't alter the fact that the NHS is in a dire state and not for for purpose. 12 years of savagely hacking social budgets have left it a shambles. Mr Yes. But we should look at the vandals, not what they've vandalised, for blame. Look at all this broken glass, you know who is to blame for whis? Windows! not the baseball bats! The Tories have tricked a lot of people into believing that they haven't been in power for 12 years. That they're not responsible for their policies and actions. It's beyond belief." Yes! Even now Sunak is campaigning on repairing the damage to the economy! I think the repeated changes of PM, people think it's a new government not a continuation with a new leader. I dint understand how people fall for it | |||
"Comparison after comparison shows that Socialised medicine is cheaper than private. The NHS is MUCH cheaper (in our taxes) than it would be privately (out of pocket). How is this even a debate? I'm not sure it is? Doesn't alter the fact that the NHS is in a dire state and not for for purpose. 12 years of savagely hacking social budgets have left it a shambles. Mr Yes. But we should look at the vandals, not what they've vandalised, for blame. Look at all this broken glass, you know who is to blame for whis? Windows! not the baseball bats! The Tories have tricked a lot of people into believing that they haven't been in power for 12 years. That they're not responsible for their policies and actions. It's beyond belief. Yes! Even now Sunak is campaigning on repairing the damage to the economy! I think the repeated changes of PM, people think it's a new government not a continuation with a new leader. I dint understand how people fall for it " The Tories are still the Tories, and if you look at NHS spending versus demand, it's plummeted since 2010. It's not like any Tory that has a voice in the current party is likely to buck that trend. | |||
"Believe the OP is trying to highlight the ridiculous pressure and lack of resource the NHS is labouring under, and is sarcastically illustrating the only way our government seeks to answer it. Bugger. I thought I was the only one to detect the subtle hint of sarcasm. And by subtle I mean pretty bloody obvious.
A
I asked what the OP meant. It's not obvious if one doesn't know the poster and is new to the forum. And people do make some very stupid pronouncements here tbh.
Therein lies the issue. It's the manner in which it is asked; whether it is asking for clarification or more of a pronouncement based on an assumption of guilt.
In your case, to my eyes, your question was asking for clarification except for the emoji added at the end, which suggested it was an assumption. Did I misread it?"It was a questioning emoji. | |||
"If you want to fix the problems in your local hospital, sort out social care. You can't bring anyone through the front door if you can't get people out the back, it's that simple. Nothing really to do with hospital funding, bit too simplistic. It's down to the fact that people who don't need medical intervention shouldn't be in hospital. Can't conduct surgery unless you have a bed to put them in post op, if that bed is taken by a lovely person who needs social care, it's a non starter. Everyone wants to care for old mum and dad until the day arrives when you do actually need to look after them and it's a different story. Bit like on FAB, everyone is up for a meet until someone says let's meet and it's run for cover. Same old, same old.
I find your attitude about elder care very dismissive and presumptuous.
My Dad currently needs home care but is bed blocking in hospital due to the lack of social care. He's 83, with dementia and a broken neck. He has chosen to live over an hour away from me. I am disabled myself. I have to work FT to support my own family. How the heck am I supposed to care for him? He made zero provision for his own care - no insurance, nothing. I could hold his selfishness and inadequacy as a father against him (I don't) but I honestly cannot provide the care he currently needs. He has next to no other family, just me and my brother (also currently responsible for an unwell child, FT work to support his young family etc).
Thanks for your response.
Sorry you see it that way and I'm sure if your personal circumstances were different you would have no problem caring for your Dad.
My comment was not aimed at everyone but I see and hear on a daily basis families who feel they have no responsibility towards their elderly and sometimes not so old family members.
Indeed, I have been told on several occasions if mum or dad used private care it would wipe out their inheritance and they do it with a straight face.
I stick to my view that unless social care has a major overhaul. With us all living longer and some of us are living longer and not in such good health the costs in future years will be astronomical.
We can either separate social care or join it up with mainstream NHS care, I doubt any government would jump for that option.
Sorry to hear about your dad, I can understand as I had care issues with my Dad before he passed away.
It is a challenge.
"I would always have an issue in continuing to be the main income earner for my (young) family and to care for a man in his 80s with dementia. My Dad was an old Dad (47 when I was born) so I'm doing this the best part of 20 years earlier in my life (and career) than my colleagues, for example. Even of I was able bodied, I cannot simply quit working and have hardly any income. I not only support this household of 3x adults and a child of 5, but I also financially support my (almost bankrupt) brother and equally impoverished elderly father. My income is currently supporting, in various ways, 6 adults and 3 primary age children. It's a hell of a lot more complicated than the above too. As they used to say, my father doesn't have two brass farthings to rub together. Hence me subbing him money, paying his credit card bills and buying things for his house, like a new vacuum and washing line etc (two relatively recent purchases). I couldn't give a shit about inheritance. Not only have I know for decades that there's zero chance of that anyway, I much prefer working for my own crust. How are we to expect the offspring of elderly people, offspring in their 30s, 40s, 50s etc to become FT carers? These people are to become economically inactive and scrap their careers presumably? This would generally fall to women traditionally. How are they qualified to offer care to elderly people with complex health needs? Living massively longer lives comes with lots of complications, like dementia and all sorts. The social care system is still back in 1947, when life expectancy was somewhere in the early to mid 60s. It's now something like 86-87 years. But the additional twenty odd years are not generally healthy ones. With the Baby Boomer generation needing all this health and social care, we can ill afford societally to regress to women quitting the workforce and becoming FT carers. | |||
"If you want to fix the problems in your local hospital, sort out social care. You can't bring anyone through the front door if you can't get people out the back, it's that simple. Nothing really to do with hospital funding, bit too simplistic. It's down to the fact that people who don't need medical intervention shouldn't be in hospital. Can't conduct surgery unless you have a bed to put them in post op, if that bed is taken by a lovely person who needs social care, it's a non starter. Everyone wants to care for old mum and dad until the day arrives when you do actually need to look after them and it's a different story. Bit like on FAB, everyone is up for a meet until someone says let's meet and it's run for cover. Same old, same old.
I find your attitude about elder care very dismissive and presumptuous.
My Dad currently needs home care but is bed blocking in hospital due to the lack of social care. He's 83, with dementia and a broken neck. He has chosen to live over an hour away from me. I am disabled myself. I have to work FT to support my own family. How the heck am I supposed to care for him? He made zero provision for his own care - no insurance, nothing. I could hold his selfishness and inadequacy as a father against him (I don't) but I honestly cannot provide the care he currently needs. He has next to no other family, just me and my brother (also currently responsible for an unwell child, FT work to support his young family etc).
Thanks for your response.
Sorry you see it that way and I'm sure if your personal circumstances were different you would have no problem caring for your Dad.
My comment was not aimed at everyone but I see and hear on a daily basis families who feel they have no responsibility towards their elderly and sometimes not so old family members.
Indeed, I have been told on several occasions if mum or dad used private care it would wipe out their inheritance and they do it with a straight face.
I stick to my view that unless social care has a major overhaul. With us all living longer and some of us are living longer and not in such good health the costs in future years will be astronomical.
We can either separate social care or join it up with mainstream NHS care, I doubt any government would jump for that option.
Sorry to hear about your dad, I can understand as I had care issues with my Dad before he passed away.
It is a challenge.
I would always have an issue in continuing to be the main income earner for my (young) family and to care for a man in his 80s with dementia. My Dad was an old Dad (47 when I was born) so I'm doing this the best part of 20 years earlier in my life (and career) than my colleagues, for example. Even of I was able bodied, I cannot simply quit working and have hardly any income. I not only support this household of 3x adults and a child of 5, but I also financially support my (almost bankrupt) brother and equally impoverished elderly father. My income is currently supporting, in various ways, 6 adults and 3 primary age children.
It's a hell of a lot more complicated than the above too.
As they used to say, my father doesn't have two brass farthings to rub together. Hence me subbing him money, paying his credit card bills and buying things for his house, like a new vacuum and washing line etc (two relatively recent purchases). I couldn't give a shit about inheritance. Not only have I know for decades that there's zero chance of that anyway, I much prefer working for my own crust.
How are we to expect the offspring of elderly people, offspring in their 30s, 40s, 50s etc to become FT carers? These people are to become economically inactive and scrap their careers presumably? This would generally fall to women traditionally. How are they qualified to offer care to elderly people with complex health needs? Living massively longer lives comes with lots of complications, like dementia and all sorts.
The social care system is still back in 1947, when life expectancy was somewhere in the early to mid 60s. It's now something like 86-87 years. But the additional twenty odd years are not generally healthy ones. With the Baby Boomer generation needing all this health and social care, we can ill afford societally to regress to women quitting the workforce and becoming FT carers."I'm sorry you're goung through all thR
The one point I'd add is thstbwe now live in a society where a family with 2 working adults will potentially also need benefits to survive, in that scenario how on earth is that practical? There's more to caring than a roof over their head, people can't just give up work and become carers unless they are close to retiring age and have money put aside.
I've seen the toll working full time and being a primary carer has done to 2 former colleagues (one in their 50s one on their mid 30s) and wouldn't wish that on anyone,it's heartbreaking.
As you say a social care system that was designed for post war is is useless, we live on a very different world now | |||
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"I think so far on this thread we've identified GPs, hospitals, ambulance trusts and social care as barely coping or failing. And also a clear postcode lottery on quality of care. It's not the NHS that is failing, the NHS is being failed by the government and years of underfunding and in some sectors failing to adapt or modernise. Bit too many people seem to think the NHS is to blame " reports have been released showing how the Tory government are deliberately cutting funding, the end goal is to convince the public that the NHS is not fit for purpose and that we need to move to a private model which benefits their donors and corporate buddies. It is ABSOLUTELY a failing of the government! Get the funding back to pre-tory levels and watch the NHS bounce back | |||
"I think so far on this thread we've identified GPs, hospitals, ambulance trusts and social care as barely coping or failing. And also a clear postcode lottery on quality of care. It's not the NHS that is failing, the NHS is being failed by the government and years of underfunding and in some sectors failing to adapt or modernise. Bit too many people seem to think the NHS is to blame " | |||
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"With this hot weather the good folks who work for the NHS will be pushed to the limit,so let's tell the good ladies and lads to work a bit harder" What makes you think they're good folks ?? | |||
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"I don’t think there is A problem with ‘the NHS’ it’s far too simplistic. As is underfunding, at what point do we not budget anymore and exercise fiscal responsibility? Just give ‘the NHS’ more? Our complete GDP? My blinkered and totally subjective view is There are hundreds of thousands of small failings (and never reported successes) spread across multiple individual parts, often working in duplication, all under a huge blue umbrella. It’s analogous to any large organisation like British Leyland. Also NO organisation or Group should be pedestalised, that it’s above genuine open criticism. Political intervention is inevitable from all parties seeking to gain, part of life. Also it’s got to continuously evolve to meet the needs of people, environmental influence, spreading diseases, ageing population etc etc. It’s never going to be perfect, but if it performs to 80% in it’s current guise realistically that’s far better than most countries. " Best comment so far | |||
"Sorry, but what's the aim of this thread OP?
Probably to cause arguments as usual "Because being belligerent is the default for many these days. | |||
"What a jolly place the Forum will be if a non-Tory government is voted in; all the happy people here throwing parties and regaling us with tales of the magical powers their party have to transform this Sceptred Isle." Is there a non-Tory party? | |||
"What a jolly place the Forum will be if a non-Tory government is voted in; all the happy people here throwing parties and regaling us with tales of the magical powers their party have to transform this Sceptred Isle. Is there a non-Tory party? "Apparently so. It's Tory or everyone else, hence non-Tory. | |||
"If you want to fix the problems in your local hospital, sort out social care. You can't bring anyone through the front door if you can't get people out the back, it's that simple. Nothing really to do with hospital funding, bit too simplistic. It's down to the fact that people who don't need medical intervention shouldn't be in hospital. Can't conduct surgery unless you have a bed to put them in post op, if that bed is taken by a lovely person who needs social care, it's a non starter. Everyone wants to care for old mum and dad until the day arrives when you do actually need to look after them and it's a different story. Bit like on FAB, everyone is up for a meet until someone says let's meet and it's run for cover. Same old, same old.
I find your attitude about elder care very dismissive and presumptuous.
My Dad currently needs home care but is bed blocking in hospital due to the lack of social care. He's 83, with dementia and a broken neck. He has chosen to live over an hour away from me. I am disabled myself. I have to work FT to support my own family. How the heck am I supposed to care for him? He made zero provision for his own care - no insurance, nothing. I could hold his selfishness and inadequacy as a father against him (I don't) but I honestly cannot provide the care he currently needs. He has next to no other family, just me and my brother (also currently responsible for an unwell child, FT work to support his young family etc).
Thanks for your response.
Sorry you see it that way and I'm sure if your personal circumstances were different you would have no problem caring for your Dad.
My comment was not aimed at everyone but I see and hear on a daily basis families who feel they have no responsibility towards their elderly and sometimes not so old family members.
Indeed, I have been told on several occasions if mum or dad used private care it would wipe out their inheritance and they do it with a straight face.
I stick to my view that unless social care has a major overhaul. With us all living longer and some of us are living longer and not in such good health the costs in future years will be astronomical.
We can either separate social care or join it up with mainstream NHS care, I doubt any government would jump for that option.
Sorry to hear about your dad, I can understand as I had care issues with my Dad before he passed away.
It is a challenge.
I would always have an issue in continuing to be the main income earner for my (young) family and to care for a man in his 80s with dementia. My Dad was an old Dad (47 when I was born) so I'm doing this the best part of 20 years earlier in my life (and career) than my colleagues, for example. Even of I was able bodied, I cannot simply quit working and have hardly any income. I not only support this household of 3x adults and a child of 5, but I also financially support my (almost bankrupt) brother and equally impoverished elderly father. My income is currently supporting, in various ways, 6 adults and 3 primary age children.
It's a hell of a lot more complicated than the above too.
As they used to say, my father doesn't have two brass farthings to rub together. Hence me subbing him money, paying his credit card bills and buying things for his house, like a new vacuum and washing line etc (two relatively recent purchases). I couldn't give a shit about inheritance. Not only have I know for decades that there's zero chance of that anyway, I much prefer working for my own crust.
How are we to expect the offspring of elderly people, offspring in their 30s, 40s, 50s etc to become FT carers? These people are to become economically inactive and scrap their careers presumably? This would generally fall to women traditionally. How are they qualified to offer care to elderly people with complex health needs? Living massively longer lives comes with lots of complications, like dementia and all sorts.
The social care system is still back in 1947, when life expectancy was somewhere in the early to mid 60s. It's now something like 86-87 years. But the additional twenty odd years are not generally healthy ones. With the Baby Boomer generation needing all this health and social care, we can ill afford societally to regress to women quitting the workforce and becoming FT carers."Don't really see why it should be predominately women packing in work. What the final plan will be to support an elderly population I have absolutely no idea. I do believe as long as social care is used as a political football we will get absolutely nowhere. Will the state pension be only offered to those whose private income is below a certain level, bit like means testing state pensions, I can hear the howls of disapproval. And there's the rub. People see the dilemma but when it comes to putting your hand in your pocket or paying more tax it becomes a different story. Nothing to do with me gov. Politicians understand this and find it a political hot potato so kick the can down the street. Until it gets sorted, which will in my humble opinion be never, we plod on trying our best to clear beds. | |||
"
Maybe we should all exercise responsibility for ourselves so we don't need to stretch their capacity." exactly! | |||
"Don't really see why it should be predominately women packing in work. What the final plan will be to support an elderly population I have absolutely no idea. I do believe as long as social care is used as a political football we will get absolutely nowhere. Will the state pension be only offered to those whose private income is below a certain level, bit like means testing state pensions, I can hear the howls of disapproval. And there's the rub. People see the dilemma but when it comes to putting your hand in your pocket or paying more tax it becomes a different story. Nothing to do with me gov. Politicians understand this and find it a political hot potato so kick the can down the street. Until it gets sorted, which will in my humble opinion be never, we plod on trying our best to clear beds. " It always has been and probably always will be women who shoulder the majority burden of care. It seems to be the default assumption of society and frankly of the social care system. Irrespective of gender, we (society) simply cannot afford to have a situation where the working age taxpayers stop working and paying tax to care for the Baby Boomer (and earlier) generation for 5, 10 or even more years. Dad has required a level of help (mainly in managing finances and healthcare) for 2-3 years, which, despite exceptionally personally challenging circumstances, I have (and continue) to provide. Minus the dementia, he's pretty healthy for an 83yo (ignoring the current broken neck) and his family have a strong track record of living to 88-90+ years of age. Should people in my situation be expected to quit work for 8-10 years plus to provide that care? I don't think they should. And when it comes to my mother's care, she IS on her own and it's naff all to do with money/inheritance (she hasn't got a dime either, despite siphoning tens of thousands of others) and everything to do with being an evil witch. She is not my responsibility. Next question - who will quit work to look after the elderly people who have no children/family? With the current state of the birth rate, that's going to become an ever more common situation in which future. It might sound callous, but children do not have an obligation to provide care for their parents and there's a wide array of reasons why that might not be possible, might not be desired or might be deleterious. It would certainly be deleterious to my physical health (and probably my Dad's in the end) if I was to try to provide his care. I will be making arrangements for my own care in the future so that my children do not have to feel obliged to do so. They've done enough for me as children. | |||
"I wish people would stop calling those that complain about the heat snowflakes etc. If you've not worked a 13 hour shift in a hospital in full ppe sit your arse down and shut up. It's unbearable on wards in this weather. " Try 12 hrs in a paper mill wearing ppe. | |||
"I don’t think there is A problem with ‘the NHS’ it’s far too simplistic. As is underfunding, at what point do we not budget anymore and exercise fiscal responsibility? Just give ‘the NHS’ more? Our complete GDP? My blinkered and totally subjective view is There are hundreds of thousands of small failings (and never reported successes) spread across multiple individual parts, often working in duplication, all under a huge blue umbrella. It’s analogous to any large organisation like British Leyland. Also NO organisation or Group should be pedestalised, that it’s above genuine open criticism. Political intervention is inevitable from all parties seeking to gain, part of life. Also it’s got to continuously evolve to meet the needs of people, environmental influence, spreading diseases, ageing population etc etc. It’s never going to be perfect, but if it performs to 80% in it’s current guise realistically that’s far better than most countries. " I agree with a lot of this. I also don't think the issue is the NHS budget. The issue is all the other cuts. The statutory services like the police, and sections of the NHS have no choice but to step in when no one else is left to do so. Paramedics, A&E staff and police officers are not only having to cope with the fall out of years of social care budget cuts but now, as the other services can no longer keep up with the massive amount of extra work these cuts have led to, they're having to do their job too. Back at the start of austerity cuts there were many people warning what the results would be but they were ignored. It is easy to find ways to save money when you have a system that's working relatively well. Much like planned maintenance is often seen as a waste of money the reality is that in the long term the cost is *always* higher. It's easy to ask " why is my council wasting money on after school clubs for kids" a bit less obvious to understand 12 years later that those kids that once had something useful and helpful to do with their time, a safe place to go, adults who were actuality decent role models for them who could help them are now grown up having spent that same after school time out on the streets. Now, instead of being productive members of society they're involved in crime, have kids they have no idea how to parent, or major mental health issues. OK, this may be a bit of a simplification but it's easy to see how saving a few grand running an after school club can lead to an ever increasing cost in police, prison, social, mental and health care down the road, then all the money that's being spent dealing with this mess cuts into any budget the local councils will have for caring for elderly people and where does the buck stop? The good old NHS. I agree, we can't keep plowing money into it, but we can't also expect it to function as a viable health service as well as covering for every other failure in government funding. Anyone moaning about people dying waiting for an ambulance or not being able to see a GP needs to ask who they've voted for over the last 12 years. This is austerity - and you can't say you weren't warned, you were but chose to dismiss it as scare mongering. Your political beliefs may make you think it isn't fair to make people who work hard for a living party for those who don't work and that's fair enough. I don't subscribe to the bulshit that anyone who votes Tory is a cunt who cares about no one but themselves. I also totally get your views on fairness and work ethic and all the other stuff but life isn't fair. You live in a fairy take if you believe that a government run by people will ever be fair, and even if it was people are all different, have different drives to you. Whether you like it or not, if you cut finding for those in society you feel don't deserve it the cost will always end up being higher later on. Austerity doesn't work all it does is increase the number of people in need and increase the cost to the public purse. The government is trying to pay catchup with the NHS but its too bloody late. These figures are from one ambulance trust and show hours lost due to not being able to hand patients over to hospital care. How anyone cab read these and not realise we've fucked up is beyond me. In 2019, 6,835 hours were lost in total over the year In July 2021 alone, the tally was 17,186 In April 2022, 35,957 hours were lost June 2022 was the worst month on record with 38,373 lost hours July is predicted to have a total of 46,641 We're losing 5 and half more hours a month with paramedics sat unable to do their job than we were in a whole year just 3 years ago - predicted to hit nearly 7 times as many. That is austerity coming home to roost. Mr | |||
"Don't really see why it should be predominately women packing in work. What the final plan will be to support an elderly population I have absolutely no idea. I do believe as long as social care is used as a political football we will get absolutely nowhere. Will the state pension be only offered to those whose private income is below a certain level, bit like means testing state pensions, I can hear the howls of disapproval. And there's the rub. People see the dilemma but when it comes to putting your hand in your pocket or paying more tax it becomes a different story. Nothing to do with me gov. Politicians understand this and find it a political hot potato so kick the can down the street. Until it gets sorted, which will in my humble opinion be never, we plod on trying our best to clear beds. It always has been and probably always will be women who shoulder the majority burden of care. It seems to be the default assumption of society and frankly of the social care system. Irrespective of gender, we (society) simply cannot afford to have a situation where the working age taxpayers stop working and paying tax to care for the Baby Boomer (and earlier) generation for 5, 10 or even more years. Dad has required a level of help (mainly in managing finances and healthcare) for 2-3 years, which, despite exceptionally personally challenging circumstances, I have (and continue) to provide. Minus the dementia, he's pretty healthy for an 83yo (ignoring the current broken neck) and his family have a strong track record of living to 88-90+ years of age. Should people in my situation be expected to quit work for 8-10 years plus to provide that care? I don't think they should. And when it comes to my mother's care, she IS on her own and it's naff all to do with money/inheritance (she hasn't got a dime either, despite siphoning tens of thousands of others) and everything to do with being an evil witch. She is not my responsibility. Next question - who will quit work to look after the elderly people who have no children/family? With the current state of the birth rate, that's going to become an ever more common situation in which future. It might sound callous, but children do not have an obligation to provide care for their parents and there's a wide array of reasons why that might not be possible, might not be desired or might be deleterious. It would certainly be deleterious to my physical health (and probably my Dad's in the end) if I was to try to provide his care. I will be making arrangements for my own care in the future so that my children do not have to feel obliged to do so. They've done enough for me as children. " I don't think there is an answer as everyone's personal situations are different including "evil witches" or not.
Should children be responsible for the care of their parents, that's entirely up to individuals but the majority of elderly people, in my experience, have a short stay in hospital, maybe several stays and then pass away.
Our friends have just had experience of their dad, suffering dementia, at first they put an extension on their home, moved dad in for a couple of years, they both worked full time and had a full care package, 4 visits a day but sadly his condition deteriorated rapidly over a short space of time and he was moved to a specialist home, it was heartbreaking for them.
Each family has to make their own decision with as much help and support they can afford and manage.
Will it ever get sorted so everyone is happy, no never.
Good luck, hope your dad improves.
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No wonder online GPs, self diagnosis and online pill sales are on the rise. | |||
