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20mph limit
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By *i1971Man
over a year ago
Cornwall |
Road safety. However, if traffic is slower going through an area, the emissions are likely to be raised. Then in comes the clean air zones.
The 20mph zones will only work if they are police/enforced. Plenty ignore the 30mph now
Cyclists would have to be exempt as there's no requirement that they are fitted with speedometers |
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"The Welsh have introduced a 20mph speed limit for vehicles in residential areas. It does not apply to everyone. Breaking news that cyclists are exempt. What's going on here guys?"
Imposing speed limits on cycles would involve making it law to have a speedo on bikes. It is also worth bearing in mind that bikes don't have the mass that a car does, so even at the same velocity they have considerably less momentum... and consequently less potential for injury. They are also more agile so collision avoidance is easier.
Cal |
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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago
Not all that North of North London |
"The Welsh have introduced a 20mph speed limit for vehicles in residential areas. It does not apply to everyone. Breaking news that cyclists are exempt. What's going on here guys?"
Are cyclists exempt? Not strictly true
Do cyclists kill and main thousands of people every year? No but motorists di
Has it been proved in countless studies that a 20mph speed limit in residential areas saves lives and reduces pollution? Most definitely |
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"I was behind one of those new big electric cycles this week, it was doing 40mph no helmet on , the laws a joke "
Those are actually classed as motorcycle, they are subject to all of the same laws that a motorcycle is. Unfortunately there are many who don't care about the law.
Cal |
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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago
Not all that North of North London |
"I was behind one of those new big electric cycles this week, it was doing 40mph no helmet on , the laws a joke "
That bike would be completely illegal though?
Electric bikes offer an assist not a high top end speed |
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They are looking at introducing it in an area near me, where there have been no accidents for years.
The official information says nothing about safety or pollution, but a lot about pushing people to use public transport (which will have an exclusion).
Reducing the speed in an area just to annoy people enough that they use public transport is not the right way to do it IMHO.
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"Out of interest can anyone tell me a negative to a 20mph residential limit that doesn't boil down to the entitlement of a motorist?
You can actually see the view?!
I'd that a negative?"
In a lot of places, yes  |
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I believe speed limits only legally apply to motor vehicles so bikes are probably exempt from the limit. Bikes however are subject to being prosecuted for “cycling furiously” or “wanton and furious cycling.” - which is probably how this will be enforced if issues arise. |
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"I believe speed limits only legally apply to motor vehicles so bikes are probably exempt from the limit. Bikes however are subject to being prosecuted for “cycling furiously” or “wanton and furious cycling.” - which is probably how this will be enforced if issues arise."
*Ponders if the same applies to manual wheelchairs*  |
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Many streets near me have changed to 20mph because the residents asked for it. Nothing will stop a nobhead from speeding though.
3.30 pm weekdays outside a school at the end of my road, 20,mph warning flashing, the school is on a sharp bend, parents parking on yellow zig zags and boy racers flying round at 40mph and above using it as a rat run. Despite the fact a single lane chicane being added.
I'm glad my kids managed to grow up with road sense. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I was behind one of those new big electric cycles this week, it was doing 40mph no helmet on , the laws a joke "
Electic bikes only assist upto 15mph. If it was going 40 thats on the the power of the rider not the motor |
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By *lynJMan
over a year ago
Morden |
"They are looking at introducing it in an area near me, where there have been no accidents for years.
The official information says nothing about safety or pollution, but a lot about pushing people to use public transport (which will have an exclusion).
Reducing the speed in an area just to annoy people enough that they use public transport is not the right way to do it IMHO.
"
Abstracts from a set of independent reports (listed on the page) about how a lower speed limit improves safety.
https://www.20splenty.org/20mph_casualty_reduction
It's possible also that emissions are reduced because the periods of acceleration and braking are shorter. |
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"I believe speed limits only legally apply to motor vehicles so bikes are probably exempt from the limit. Bikes however are subject to being prosecuted for “cycling furiously” or “wanton and furious cycling.” - which is probably how this will be enforced if issues arise.
*Ponders if the same applies to manual wheelchairs* "
Any road user owes a duty of care to other road users so if a wheel chair user is acting dangerously then they will get done in some way or other. |
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"I was behind one of those new big electric cycles this week, it was doing 40mph no helmet on , the laws a joke
Electic bikes only assist upto 15mph. If it was going 40 thats on the the power of the rider not the motor"
The Deliveroo dudes in Manchester go a damn sight faster than 15mph on some kind of electric mountain bike and they are rarely pedalling! They look very heath robinson to be honest but they go incredibly fast. |
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"I believe speed limits only legally apply to motor vehicles so bikes are probably exempt from the limit. Bikes however are subject to being prosecuted for “cycling furiously” or “wanton and furious cycling.” - which is probably how this will be enforced if issues arise.
*Ponders if the same applies to manual wheelchairs*
Any road user owes a duty of care to other road users so if a wheel chair user is acting dangerously then they will get done in some way or other."
Well, shit |
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"I was behind one of those new big electric cycles this week, it was doing 40mph no helmet on , the laws a joke
Electic bikes only assist upto 15mph. If it was going 40 thats on the the power of the rider not the motor
The Deliveroo dudes in Manchester go a damn sight faster than 15mph on some kind of electric mountain bike and they are rarely pedalling! They look very heath robinson to be honest but they go incredibly fast. "
It is the ones who drive/ride really fast on and off the pavements that scare me. Something that fast should not be anywhere near a pedestrian. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Out of interest can anyone tell me a negative to a 20mph residential limit that doesn't boil down to the entitlement of a motorist?
You can actually see the view?!
I'd that a negative?"
Have you ever been to Merthyr? |
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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago
Not all that North of North London |
"I was behind one of those new big electric cycles this week, it was doing 40mph no helmet on , the laws a joke
Electic bikes only assist upto 15mph. If it was going 40 thats on the the power of the rider not the motor
The Deliveroo dudes in Manchester go a damn sight faster than 15mph on some kind of electric mountain bike and they are rarely pedalling! They look very heath robinson to be honest but they go incredibly fast. "
They are on illegally modified bikes, deregulated e-bikes (and e-scooters for that matter) are dodgy enough but there are a lot of dodgy kits you can get ti turn a normal bike in to a dangerous and illegal e-bike. There are also bikes with petrol motors attached!
It should be mentioned that in London the police regularly seize them but as ever the police are so under resourced it's little more than a token gesture |
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By *lynJMan
over a year ago
Morden |
"Out of interest can anyone tell me a negative to a 20mph residential limit that doesn't boil down to the entitlement of a motorist?
You can actually see the view?!
I'd that a negative?
Have you ever been to Merthyr?"
Not for a very long time |
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By *ad NannaWoman
over a year ago
East London |
"The Welsh have introduced a 20mph speed limit for vehicles in residential areas. It does not apply to everyone. Breaking news that cyclists are exempt. What's going on here guys?
Imposing speed limits on cycles would involve making it law to have a speedo on bikes. It is also worth bearing in mind that bikes don't have the mass that a car does, so even at the same velocity they have considerably less momentum... and consequently less potential for injury. They are also more agile so collision avoidance is easier.
Cal"
They still bloody hurt when the handlebars smash into your face *true story, cried for ages afterwards*
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By *ad NannaWoman
over a year ago
East London |
Around schools we have a 20mph limit, and speed humps everywhere else.
I tell taxis to take the main roads and ignore satnavs so I don't feel sick going over the speed humps after a night of drinking. |
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"I was behind one of those new big electric cycles this week, it was doing 40mph no helmet on , the laws a joke
Electic bikes only assist upto 15mph. If it was going 40 thats on the the power of the rider not the motor
The Deliveroo dudes in Manchester go a damn sight faster than 15mph on some kind of electric mountain bike and they are rarely pedalling! They look very heath robinson to be honest but they go incredibly fast.
They are on illegally modified bikes, deregulated e-bikes (and e-scooters for that matter) are dodgy enough but there are a lot of dodgy kits you can get ti turn a normal bike in to a dangerous and illegal e-bike. There are also bikes with petrol motors attached!
It should be mentioned that in London the police regularly seize them but as ever the police are so under resourced it's little more than a token gesture "
No-one seems to do anything in Manchester about them. Pretty much every Deliveroo "cyclist" is on one of them. |
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"They are looking at introducing it in an area near me, where there have been no accidents for years.
The official information says nothing about safety or pollution, but a lot about pushing people to use public transport (which will have an exclusion).
Reducing the speed in an area just to annoy people enough that they use public transport is not the right way to do it IMHO.
Abstracts from a set of independent reports (listed on the page) about how a lower speed limit improves safety.
https://www.20splenty.org/20mph_casualty_reduction
It's possible also that emissions are reduced because the periods of acceleration and braking are shorter."
Oh, I know they do.
I'm just not keen on the fact that 'that' is not what was important or focused on near me, it was about annoying drivers into using busses.
Will see if I can find the info. |
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"The Welsh have introduced a 20mph speed limit for vehicles in residential areas. It does not apply to everyone. Breaking news that cyclists are exempt. What's going on here guys?
Imposing speed limits on cycles would involve making it law to have a speedo on bikes. It is also worth bearing in mind that bikes don't have the mass that a car does, so even at the same velocity they have considerably less momentum... and consequently less potential for injury. They are also more agile so collision avoidance is easier.
Cal
They still bloody hurt when the handlebars smash into your face *true story, cried for ages afterwards*
"
One clipped my 6 year old son with their handlebars. I managed to push my 2 year old in a pushchair out of the way, but couldn't get him fully out of the way quite quick enough.
She had no brakes and was going downhill. Towards a major road crossing too, which would have been fun for her if she hadn't crashed.
That's the nearest I've ever been to hitting someone. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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You could argue that anyone driving in a town or city is already have a 20 mph speed limit because of traffic and roadworks.
They're just looking to increase funds by fining people for daring to go into second gear. |
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By *ad NannaWoman
over a year ago
East London |
"The Welsh have introduced a 20mph speed limit for vehicles in residential areas. It does not apply to everyone. Breaking news that cyclists are exempt. What's going on here guys?
Imposing speed limits on cycles would involve making it law to have a speedo on bikes. It is also worth bearing in mind that bikes don't have the mass that a car does, so even at the same velocity they have considerably less momentum... and consequently less potential for injury. They are also more agile so collision avoidance is easier.
Cal
They still bloody hurt when the handlebars smash into your face *true story, cried for ages afterwards*
One clipped my 6 year old son with their handlebars. I managed to push my 2 year old in a pushchair out of the way, but couldn't get him fully out of the way quite quick enough.
She had no brakes and was going downhill. Towards a major road crossing too, which would have been fun for her if she hadn't crashed.
That's the nearest I've ever been to hitting someone. "
I was a child and he was riding on the pavement. It hit me right on the mouth and I can still recall the pain and blood.
I don't see many people on the pavement any more but some are still reckless on roads, ignoring people crossing. |
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"....
I was a child and he was riding on the pavement. It hit me right on the mouth and I can still recall the pain and blood.
I don't see many people on the pavement any more but some are still reckless on roads, ignoring people crossing. "
Ouch! Yeah, that would have hurt!
Loads on the pavements around here as the roads are so shit. Plus, we have a half-assed attempt at making cycle paths, where they split the existing pavements in two, just not for the entire stretch of the pavements. They come and go, so the cyclists just end up staying on them.
Decent cycle lanes would be amazing, but cost a lot and not always feasible unfortunately.
I don't actually have an issue with them being on pavements if the roads are dangerous, as long as they are being safe, careful and respectful themselves. |
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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago
Not all that North of North London |
"....
I was a child and he was riding on the pavement. It hit me right on the mouth and I can still recall the pain and blood.
I don't see many people on the pavement any more but some are still reckless on roads, ignoring people crossing.
Ouch! Yeah, that would have hurt!
Loads on the pavements around here as the roads are so shit. Plus, we have a half-assed attempt at making cycle paths, where they split the existing pavements in two, just not for the entire stretch of the pavements. They come and go, so the cyclists just end up staying on them.
Decent cycle lanes would be amazing, but cost a lot and not always feasible unfortunately.
I don't actually have an issue with them being on pavements if the roads are dangerous, as long as they are being safe, careful and respectful themselves. "
Shared paths ate the absolute worst, it's the absolute cheapest way to introduce 'infrastructure' but it's a joke, dangerous for cyclists and pedestrians and as you say rarely thought out for continuity |
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"....
I was a child and he was riding on the pavement. It hit me right on the mouth and I can still recall the pain and blood.
I don't see many people on the pavement any more but some are still reckless on roads, ignoring people crossing.
Ouch! Yeah, that would have hurt!
Loads on the pavements around here as the roads are so shit. Plus, we have a half-assed attempt at making cycle paths, where they split the existing pavements in two, just not for the entire stretch of the pavements. They come and go, so the cyclists just end up staying on them.
Decent cycle lanes would be amazing, but cost a lot and not always feasible unfortunately.
I don't actually have an issue with them being on pavements if the roads are dangerous, as long as they are being safe, careful and respectful themselves.
Shared paths ate the absolute worst, it's the absolute cheapest way to introduce 'infrastructure' but it's a joke, dangerous for cyclists and pedestrians and as you say rarely thought out for continuity "
 Shared paths are madness. They basically just devolve to cycle paths and pedestrians having to get out of the way. Cyclists on shared paths are like cars in the road - they don’t want to stop and get very agitated if something is blocking them. |
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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago
Not all that North of North London |
"....
I was a child and he was riding on the pavement. It hit me right on the mouth and I can still recall the pain and blood.
I don't see many people on the pavement any more but some are still reckless on roads, ignoring people crossing.
Ouch! Yeah, that would have hurt!
Loads on the pavements around here as the roads are so shit. Plus, we have a half-assed attempt at making cycle paths, where they split the existing pavements in two, just not for the entire stretch of the pavements. They come and go, so the cyclists just end up staying on them.
Decent cycle lanes would be amazing, but cost a lot and not always feasible unfortunately.
I don't actually have an issue with them being on pavements if the roads are dangerous, as long as they are being safe, careful and respectful themselves.
Shared paths ate the absolute worst, it's the absolute cheapest way to introduce 'infrastructure' but it's a joke, dangerous for cyclists and pedestrians and as you say rarely thought out for continuity
Shared paths are madness. They basically just devolve to cycle paths and pedestrians having to get out of the way. Cyclists on shared paths are like cars in the road - they don’t want to stop and get very agitated if something is blocking them."
There's some local to me, on a road with huge grass verges, they could easily widen the road to add cyclepaths at the side or put a cycle path separate to the road and foot path but the just painted a white line down the foot path. It doesn't benefit anyone |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"....
I was a child and he was riding on the pavement. It hit me right on the mouth and I can still recall the pain and blood.
I don't see many people on the pavement any more but some are still reckless on roads, ignoring people crossing.
Ouch! Yeah, that would have hurt!
Loads on the pavements around here as the roads are so shit. Plus, we have a half-assed attempt at making cycle paths, where they split the existing pavements in two, just not for the entire stretch of the pavements. They come and go, so the cyclists just end up staying on them.
Decent cycle lanes would be amazing, but cost a lot and not always feasible unfortunately.
I don't actually have an issue with them being on pavements if the roads are dangerous, as long as they are being safe, careful and respectful themselves.
Shared paths ate the absolute worst, it's the absolute cheapest way to introduce 'infrastructure' but it's a joke, dangerous for cyclists and pedestrians and as you say rarely thought out for continuity
Shared paths are madness. They basically just devolve to cycle paths and pedestrians having to get out of the way. Cyclists on shared paths are like cars in the road - they don’t want to stop and get very agitated if something is blocking them."
In my experience its the other way around. They'll get completely blocked by groups of people, kids, dogs on 2 mile long leads and pushchairs. They're generally more dangerous for a cyclist and certainly less useful than the road which is why I only use them in quiet areas. Everywhere else I use the road. The main road along Swansea sea front to the Mumbles is a classic, lovely shared use path neatly divided into bike and pedestrian zones but next to no one takes any notice. On a sunny day when it's busy down there, despite a lot of the road having a 40mph limit, the number of traffic lights along it mean I can generally make it from Swansea to Mumbles in a similar time to a car by using the road, no chance on the cycle path. Just to be clear, I don't jump the lights, its just they're timed to stop cars so if I pull off at the front at one set, I'm generally filtering near the front of the queue at the next set when they change.
Mr |
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"The Welsh have introduced a 20mph speed limit for vehicles in residential areas. It does not apply to everyone. Breaking news that cyclists are exempt. What's going on here guys?
Imposing speed limits on cycles would involve making it law to have a speedo on bikes. It is also worth bearing in mind that bikes don't have the mass that a car does, so even at the same velocity they have considerably less momentum... and consequently less potential for injury. They are also more agile so collision avoidance is easier.
Cal
They still bloody hurt when the handlebars smash into your face *true story, cried for ages afterwards*
"
I agree and everyone one on a bike should be being as careful as possible to avoid accidents. I have come close to colliding with pedestrians a few times, and at 20mph I know I would be injured too... all of my "near misses" have involved people stepping into cycle-lanes without looking  .
Although "sports cyclists" are the target of motorists' hate, we/they rarely the ones causing issues (except for adding time to a driver's journey). I have never seen a guy in lycra riding a £5,000 carbon bike on the footpath.
Cal
Cal |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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More than happy for them to restrict speed in towns and cities and built up areas. More places should do it.
They should also increase the speed limit on motorways and dual carriageways, 70 isn't enough. |
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"Out of interest can anyone tell me a negative to a 20mph residential limit that doesn't boil down to the entitlement of a motorist?
You can actually see the view?!"
Tbh I'm amazed it's not compulsory in all residential, outside schools, shops etc. But we are a pretty selfish bunch of twats really and it might slow down Chelseas school run a bit |
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