FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Crypto currency investment
Crypto currency investment
Jump to: Newest in thread
 |
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
So I was going to buy a grand of crypto. But this year it has gone from over 50k to now 20k. One of my mates put in £700 a few years ago then it was at a high of £6800 now its £1500. And the market says it has further to drop. In the beginning they said crypto was immune to the central banks and untraceable. Yet crypto went down recently because of the financial market fall and the FBI tracked some digital crimes in America last year.
Could crypto be the next Tulip bubble? I think it was the 1700 when Tulips (flowers) were sold for stupid amounts of money. People just couldn't believe it. But no one wanted to loose out on the latest craze. Then literally over night it was worthless, other than it is a flower. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"If Crypto becomes a tracker for the standard financial market, isn't it then just a massive electricity / chip drain for no purpose whatsoever beyond snake oil salesmen?"
Exactly! Crypto uses so much energy. There's no way round it. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *harpDressed ManMan
over a year ago
Here occasionally, but mostly somewhere else |
"I’d rather buy a grands worth of lottery tickets than invest in some scam
Yeah in some ways it is a scam. personally I think I’ll keep my cash in Santander and my ISA  "
There are probably better returns to be had without going all the way to crypto. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *lex46TV/TS
over a year ago
Near Wells |
A good article in The Sunday Times today. Sounds like another bubble bursting.
If you're clever you could have made it work. One guy bought £1,500 worth a few years ago and when it went to £65,000 sold 70% of his stock.
Unfortunately most people are gullible for this kind of thing. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *oodmessMan
over a year ago
yumsville |
"A good article in The Sunday Times today. Sounds like another bubble bursting.
If you're clever you could have made it work. One guy bought £1,500 worth a few years ago and when it went to £65,000 sold 70% of his stock.
Unfortunately most people are gullible for this kind of thing."
They are when companies say they'll transact in it, celebrities endorse it, and countries change their entire currency to it.
Crypto is no doubt polemic but you can't blame people for buying into it when it's hyped so much from so many arenas |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
I dislike think of cryptocurrency as currency. Real currency has the backing of a government. Cryptocurrency is a file on a computer that somebody has decided has value. If people then decide it doesn't have value then there is no point in having it and any money you have invested has disappeared. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ack688Man
over a year ago
abruzzo Italy (and UK) |
"If Crypto becomes a tracker for the standard financial market, isn't it then just a massive electricity / chip drain for no purpose whatsoever beyond snake oil salesmen?
Exactly! Crypto uses so much energy. There's no way round it. "
One of the two main players, Ethereum, is due to merge to a proof of stake reducing its energy requirements by about 98%. Given that countries are now using Bitcoin as legal tender and Ethereum now verifies more transactions per month than visa, the global adoption of these two at least is inevitable. Crypto isnt regulated like the stock market so is much more volatile, but the prices of crypto have dipped just like every other market other than the housing market. If I had spare cash I would be buying up more Ethereum at this low price. Is it the bottom? I don’t know, no one does, but I think it will climb significantly from this point in the next couple of years. Buy for mid term investment and forget about it for a while. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ack688Man
over a year ago
abruzzo Italy (and UK) |
"I dislike think of cryptocurrency as currency. Real currency has the backing of a government. Cryptocurrency is a file on a computer that somebody has decided has value. If people then decide it doesn't have value then there is no point in having it and any money you have invested has disappeared."
Most things only have a value because people believe they have a value, art works, gold, etc, they have no intrinsic worth but are nonetheless seen as valuable. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I dislike think of cryptocurrency as currency. Real currency has the backing of a government. Cryptocurrency is a file on a computer that somebody has decided has value. If people then decide it doesn't have value then there is no point in having it and any money you have invested has disappeared.
Most things only have a value because people believe they have a value, art works, gold, etc, they have no intrinsic worth but are nonetheless seen as valuable. "
Precious metals are slightly different. They can have industrial uses which puts a demand on them, plus extraction and processing costs |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"If Crypto becomes a tracker for the standard financial market, isn't it then just a massive electricity / chip drain for no purpose whatsoever beyond snake oil salesmen?
Exactly! Crypto uses so much energy. There's no way round it.
One of the two main players, Ethereum, is due to merge to a proof of stake reducing its energy requirements by about 98%. Given that countries are now using Bitcoin as legal tender and Ethereum now verifies more transactions per month than visa, the global adoption of these two at least is inevitable. Crypto isnt regulated like the stock market so is much more volatile, but the prices of crypto have dipped just like every other market other than the housing market. If I had spare cash I would be buying up more Ethereum at this low price. Is it the bottom? I don’t know, no one does, but I think it will climb significantly from this point in the next couple of years. Buy for mid term investment and forget about it for a while."
Yes the golden rule is buy low and sell high. But what if this is just another Tulip bubble? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
Honestly it's one of them people are ether agenst or with cypto.
Personally I've got a little investment in cypto enough if I lost I wouldn't be bothered about the thing is unlike stocks cypto is highly volatile. Don't get me wrong people have made some money when cypto first come out but I'm not sure for the future I'd personally look at stock's over cypto. But if you do put in it's probably the best time due to it being down right now put enough in that your willing to lose... |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
I put in £200 in a variety of crypto last year and a few months later took out my initial stake. So what I have in there is profit. If it all disappears tomorrow I won’t have lost anything.
However if I had another £200 I’d still buy, especially Ethereum. I don’t think crypto will go away it’s here to stay and eventually the price will rise again. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
I do have crypto myself, but right now it’s a sh*t time to even consider buying in. As I mentioned to a friend, this is investors selling back to real money to cover higher interest & inflation.
And we haven’t seen the worst of it yet. Feel sorry for those who bought Bitcoin at the highest and lost £30+K on it. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ack688Man
over a year ago
abruzzo Italy (and UK) |
"I dislike think of cryptocurrency as currency. Real currency has the backing of a government. Cryptocurrency is a file on a computer that somebody has decided has value. If people then decide it doesn't have value then there is no point in having it and any money you have invested has disappeared.
Most things only have a value because people believe they have a value, art works, gold, etc, they have no intrinsic worth but are nonetheless seen as valuable.
Precious metals are slightly different. They can have industrial uses which puts a demand on them, plus extraction and processing costs"
Yes, but in no way does the price of gold and the fluctuations in the price of gold as a commodity have any relation to its value as an industrial material |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I dislike think of cryptocurrency as currency. Real currency has the backing of a government. Cryptocurrency is a file on a computer that somebody has decided has value. If people then decide it doesn't have value then there is no point in having it and any money you have invested has disappeared.
Most things only have a value because people believe they have a value, art works, gold, etc, they have no intrinsic worth but are nonetheless seen as valuable. "
Yes, but those things have value in themselves to somebody. Certainly there are investors who buy them because they want to sell them for more than they paid. But there are also people who buy them because they want to own them, not just to sell them on. Somebody can enjoy a work of art or find objects made of gold beautiful so they want to own them. These are the people who give something solid value, and that value can stabilise.
Crypto is very different. Nobody buys them because they actually want them. They buy them because they want to sell them at some point. It's a very artificial kind of value that makes them much more vulnerable to value swings. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I'm not sure if the will disappear, as someone mentioned before, with certain crypto currencies moving to proof of stake rather than proof of work, that greatly reduces energy consumption and cost. Then with the tech advances with blockchain applications, I think it'll be here to stay. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I’d rather buy a grands worth of lottery tickets than invest in some scam
Yeah in some ways it is a scam. personally I think I’ll keep my cash in Santander and my ISA "
Your dream of buying a Ferrari will never materialise. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I'm not sure if the will disappear, as someone mentioned before, with certain crypto currencies moving to proof of stake rather than proof of work, that greatly reduces energy consumption and cost. Then with the tech advances with blockchain applications, I think it'll be here to stay."
In advances in chip technology there want be the drain in energy as it is today. As it’s said you can’t totally police the internet . The crypto in what we guise is here to stay . |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It's basically a massive ponzi scheme. If you can find someone to buy your BTC/shitcoins off you for more than you paid fair play.
As long as you get out before the music stops.
And it will."
The banking system is a Ponzi scheme . |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"It's basically a massive ponzi scheme. If you can find someone to buy your BTC/shitcoins off you for more than you paid fair play.
As long as you get out before the music stops.
And it will.
The banking system is a Ponzi scheme . "
Lollllz. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It's basically a massive ponzi scheme. If you can find someone to buy your BTC/shitcoins off you for more than you paid fair play.
As long as you get out before the music stops.
And it will.
The banking system is a Ponzi scheme .
Lollllz. "
Oh you don’t believe ? It’s big picture fella .
Think about it lol. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
A lot of people posting on here don't seem to understand what money is. You use your human energy to create value to be stored for the future. Gold has traditionally been used as a means of doing this. Currencies were linked to gold for a long time. They no longer are. Governments can now create more currency when they want. More currency in circulation causes the value of your stored currency, your energy, to diminish in value. Hence the jaw dropping inflation we are seeing after the orgy of currency creation we saw over the last two years. Thr dollar's value is somewhat protected by their military might but half of all dollars have been created in the last two years. It is Fiat money and only has the value that we all agree it has. What happens when we stop valuing it?
There will only ever be 21 million Bitcoin. It can't be created, only mined at ever increasing levels of difficulty. It has no CEO and governs itself. You can carry millions of dollars worth in your head by remembering some words. I can pay someone anywhere in the world in seconds using the lightning network at virtually zero cost. The price if bitcoin fluctuates but it is secured by the most decentralised and largest computer network in the world. No, I am not selling it for soon to be worthless government currency.  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"It's basically a massive ponzi scheme. If you can find someone to buy your BTC/shitcoins off you for more than you paid fair play.
As long as you get out before the music stops.
And it will.
The banking system is a Ponzi scheme .
Lollllz.
Oh you don’t believe ? It’s big picture fella .
Think about it lol."
Yeah, 'beleive' is the word a lot of the crypto/shitcoin disciples use. Case of Emperor's New Clothes I'm afraid. Simple fact is thousands of people are sucked into the scam, promoted by social media influencers and paids shills.
All this cobblers and meaningless babble they spout is akin to flat earthers attempting to justify how badly everyone else is wrong and they're right. It's always a really great project, a really strong team... buy this shitcoin it's the future. Yeah right.
Nonsense. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"A lot of people posting on here don't seem to understand what money is. You use your human energy to create value to be stored for the future. Gold has traditionally been used as a means of doing this. Currencies were linked to gold for a long time. They no longer are. Governments can now create more currency when they want. More currency in circulation causes the value of your stored currency, your energy, to diminish in value. Hence the jaw dropping inflation we are seeing after the orgy of currency creation we saw over the last two years. Thr dollar's value is somewhat protected by their military might but half of all dollars have been created in the last two years. It is Fiat money and only has the value that we all agree it has. What happens when we stop valuing it?
There will only ever be 21 million Bitcoin. It can't be created, only mined at ever increasing levels of difficulty. It has no CEO and governs itself. You can carry millions of dollars worth in your head by remembering some words. I can pay someone anywhere in the world in seconds using the lightning network at virtually zero cost. The price if bitcoin fluctuates but it is secured by the most decentralised and largest computer network in the world. No, I am not selling it for soon to be worthless government currency. "
Hilarious |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It's basically a massive ponzi scheme. If you can find someone to buy your BTC/shitcoins off you for more than you paid fair play.
As long as you get out before the music stops.
And it will.
The banking system is a Ponzi scheme .
Lollllz.
Oh you don’t believe ? It’s big picture fella .
Think about it lol.
Yeah, 'beleive' is the word a lot of the crypto/shitcoin disciples use. Case of Emperor's New Clothes I'm afraid. Simple fact is thousands of people are sucked into the scam, promoted by social media influencers and paids shills.
All this cobblers and meaningless babble they spout is akin to flat earthers attempting to justify how badly everyone else is wrong and they're right. It's always a really great project, a really strong team... buy this shitcoin it's the future. Yeah right.
Nonsense."
m
You didn’t answer the question . The banking system is a Ponzi scheme . Discuss . |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"A lot of people posting on here don't seem to understand what money is. You use your human energy to create value to be stored for the future. Gold has traditionally been used as a means of doing this. Currencies were linked to gold for a long time. They no longer are. Governments can now create more currency when they want. More currency in circulation causes the value of your stored currency, your energy, to diminish in value. Hence the jaw dropping inflation we are seeing after the orgy of currency creation we saw over the last two years. Thr dollar's value is somewhat protected by their military might but half of all dollars have been created in the last two years. It is Fiat money and only has the value that we all agree it has. What happens when we stop valuing it?
There will only ever be 21 million Bitcoin. It can't be created, only mined at ever increasing levels of difficulty. It has no CEO and governs itself. You can carry millions of dollars worth in your head by remembering some words. I can pay someone anywhere in the world in seconds using the lightning network at virtually zero cost. The price if bitcoin fluctuates but it is secured by the most decentralised and largest computer network in the world. No, I am not selling it for soon to be worthless government currency. "
Too many inaccuracies in the above statement. Where does one start. lol |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Generally, investing in something so speculative is to wind up with no loss. Once the price reaches where it's worth twice what you had invested in it, sell half your stock to recoup your initial investment and leave the other half to ride the waves up and down. Then you'll get out with no loss, regardless of whether it becomes worthless overnight.
This only applies to non-leveraged investments, of course. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Generally, investing in something so speculative is to wind up with no loss. Once the price reaches where it's worth twice what you had invested in it, sell half your stock to recoup your initial investment and leave the other half to ride the waves up and down. Then you'll get out with no loss, regardless of whether it becomes worthless overnight.
This only applies to non-leveraged investments, of course."
Folks who are risk adverse as your statement rarely reach true wealth. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
My issues with crytpo are:
1) it's unlimited. While the is finite BTC, there is not a finite number of coins. So unless we adopt one coin and ban the rest ... We are in a worse place than fiat.
2) it's too volatile for a currency. Imagine if you locked in your pay mid Nov. That's a 60pc pay cut.
3) given most people are speculating I can't see the price stabilising. Most investors want a rising price so I can't picture how it's going to flip to a stable price. Very few people are thinking do I invest in USD, Yen or BTC. They think equities, property or BTC.
4) my understanding is most countries don't print money in the way crypto enthusiasts paint. Instead it's done via some banking tricka which can be done even if BTC was the only unit of currency.
TBF the speed and cost of money transfers us game changing. And the idea of a non global market all using one currency is interesting. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"You didn’t answer the question . The banking system is a Ponzi scheme . Discuss ."
A Ponzi scheme is an investment fraud whereby people are promised big returns on their investment, but the deposits are not invested, and any returns paid out come from the deposits of those that join later.
The banking system does not work that way. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"You didn’t answer the question . The banking system is a Ponzi scheme . Discuss .
A Ponzi scheme is an investment fraud whereby people are promised big returns on their investment, but the deposits are not invested, and any returns paid out come from the deposits of those that join later.
The banking system does not work that way."
So Peter to pay Paul. Is the banking system. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *harpDressed ManMan
over a year ago
Here occasionally, but mostly somewhere else |
"
One of the two main players, Ethereum, is due to merge to a proof of stake reducing its energy requirements by about 98%."
Did a bit of reading. They're still testing.
If it's a success, then the minimum stake needed to transact will apparently be £40k, which is a bit of a problem if i want to buy a bottle of milk.
And it will be only one of dozens of currencies- the others are still smashing through GPUs in data centres using more electricity than Iceland.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
I bought a few hundred pounds worth a few years ago made a £200 before selling , crypto is too volatile and controlled by people like Musk and is dependent on what happens in China , I used Coinbase and they were quite good. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Wonderful news. Can you tell Rishi to give everyone a grand a week so we don't have to be poor. In fact why do we have to pay tax? The government can just create the money. "
If you can’t answer this question yourself, time to brush up on your economics. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I bought a few hundred pounds worth a few years ago made a £200 before selling , crypto is too volatile and controlled by people like Musk and is dependent on what happens in China , I used Coinbase and they were quite good."
Whole heartedly agree crypto is volatile. Musk doesn’t control crypto, but he certainly influences markets. As we saw how he fined by the SEC a few years ago.
Coinbase is simply a crypto trading platform. I’ve used it and I think it’s good. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
So Peter to pay Paul. Is the banking system.
You'd be a lot easier to understand if you typed full sentences, with verbs and things..."
What don’t you understand. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Wonderful news. Can you tell Rishi to give everyone a grand a week so we don't have to be poor. In fact why do we have to pay tax? The government can just create the money.
If you can’t answer this question yourself, time to brush up on your economics. "
I was responding, with a hint of sarcasm to a previous poster who claimed that printing money wasn't the cause of inflation. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Generally, investing in something so speculative is to wind up with no loss. Once the price reaches where it's worth twice what you had invested in it, sell half your stock to recoup your initial investment and leave the other half to ride the waves up and down. Then you'll get out with no loss, regardless of whether it becomes worthless overnight.
This only applies to non-leveraged investments, of course.
Folks who are risk adverse as your statement rarely reach true wealth. "
I beg to differ. Uninformed statements such as that put forward by you are why people don't invest wisely and think they need to take big risks to get ahead. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Wonderful news. Can you tell Rishi to give everyone a grand a week so we don't have to be poor. In fact why do we have to pay tax? The government can just create the money.
If you can’t answer this question yourself, time to brush up on your economics.
I was responding, with a hint of sarcasm to a previous poster who claimed that printing money wasn't the cause of inflation."
but from what I can see QE isn't printing money.
But the more pertinent point is cryoto is as infinite as fiat. Very simply, what stops BTC2 being produced. I often find people who talk about the finite nature of BTC also have a basket of coins. I can't square that circle. Maybe you can help ? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *harpDressed ManMan
over a year ago
Here occasionally, but mostly somewhere else |
More reading on Coinbase.
Last week, they sacked 18% of their full time staff.
It's not just the "currency" that's volatile....
So, massive energy drain, contributor to chip shortage, less stable to work in, and all run by a handful of billionaires.
Yay, crypto. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Mine is at about 50% of it's value but it's a small investment that I can lose 100% without it hurting."
Good thing is you will always own the underlying assett no mater it's price.
One bitcoin will always be one bitcoin. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Generally, investing in something so speculative is to wind up with no loss. Once the price reaches where it's worth twice what you had invested in it, sell half your stock to recoup your initial investment and leave the other half to ride the waves up and down. Then you'll get out with no loss, regardless of whether it becomes worthless overnight.
This only applies to non-leveraged investments, of course.
Folks who are risk adverse as your statement rarely reach true wealth.
I beg to differ. Uninformed statements such as that put forward by you are why people don't invest wisely and think they need to take big risks to get ahead."
You’re accepting ‘a double your money approach’. That’s not wisdom or informative. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
" QE isn't printing money. "
As we know, only a small amount of currencies in in actual printed notes and coins. If you decided to take my words in literal sense, you’re being petty.
Injecting money into the economy if you don’t like the word ‘printing money’.
Quantitative easing—QE for short—is a monetary policy strategy used by central banks like the Federal Reserve. With QE, a central bank purchases securities in an attempt to reduce interest rates, increase the supply of money and drive more lending to consumers and businesses. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"More reading on Coinbase.
Last week, they sacked 18% of their full time staff.
It's not just the "currency" that's volatile....
So, massive energy drain, contributor to chip shortage, less stable to work in, and all run by a handful of billionaires.
Yay, crypto."
Did you check the job losses in the city of London bank and FS sector . Interesting reading there . |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Wonderful news. Can you tell Rishi to give everyone a grand a week so we don't have to be poor. In fact why do we have to pay tax? The government can just create the money.
If you can’t answer this question yourself, time to brush up on your economics.
I was responding, with a hint of sarcasm to a previous poster who claimed that printing money wasn't the cause of inflation.but from what I can see QE isn't printing money.
But the more pertinent point is cryoto is as infinite as fiat. Very simply, what stops BTC2 being produced. I often find people who talk about the finite nature of BTC also have a basket of coins. I can't square that circle. Maybe you can help ?"
Look at the price of BTC cash...that was a hard fork of bitcoin. I can create a currency if I want but people wouldn't want it or use it. Bitcoin is permissionless and doesn't require trust. People may wake up to the rip off that is monetary policy or maybe not. I am hoping for the sake of humanity that human energy can be stored and transferred without huge amounts being stolen via inflation and QE. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *harpDressed ManMan
over a year ago
Here occasionally, but mostly somewhere else |
"More reading on Coinbase.
Last week, they sacked 18% of their full time staff.
It's not just the "currency" that's volatile....
So, massive energy drain, contributor to chip shortage, less stable to work in, and all run by a handful of billionaires.
Yay, crypto.
Did you check the job losses in the city of London bank and FS sector . Interesting reading there ."
No, because being comparatively more / less secure doesn't make crypto objectively good.
That's like claiming that one serial killer should be freed because someone else killed more...
Plus, you ignored the other points. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
" QE isn't printing money.
As we know, only a small amount of currencies in in actual printed notes and coins. If you decided to take my words in literal sense, you’re being petty.
Injecting money into the economy if you don’t like the word ‘printing money’.
Quantitative easing—QE for short—is a monetary policy strategy used by central banks like the Federal Reserve. With QE, a central bank purchases securities in an attempt to reduce interest rates, increase the supply of money and drive more lending to consumers and businesses."
I'm not being petty. QE is buying assets, as you say. Which can then be sold.
I guess you could argue that's the same as burning money.
And I agree it changes the money supply. Which the BoE can do in many ways.
Ive asked previously about teh ability to "print" BTC2.
My second question is whether BTC could ever be used for fractional reserving .... Because that changes money supply. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"More reading on Coinbase.
Last week, they sacked 18% of their full time staff.
It's not just the "currency" that's volatile....
So, massive energy drain, contributor to chip shortage, less stable to work in, and all run by a handful of billionaires.
Yay, crypto."
given the scale and the timing, I'm guessing that their staff are paid in USD! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"More reading on Coinbase.
Last week, they sacked 18% of their full time staff.
It's not just the "currency" that's volatile....
So, massive energy drain, contributor to chip shortage, less stable to work in, and all run by a handful of billionaires.
Yay, crypto.given the scale and the timing, I'm guessing that their staff are paid in USD! "
It’s a Silicon Valley based business. How they’re paid isn’t really the reason. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"More reading on Coinbase.
Last week, they sacked 18% of their full time staff.
It's not just the "currency" that's volatile....
So, massive energy drain, contributor to chip shortage, less stable to work in, and all run by a handful of billionaires.
Yay, crypto.
Did you check the job losses in the city of London bank and FS sector . Interesting reading there .
No, because being comparatively more / less secure doesn't make crypto objectively good.
That's like claiming that one serial killer should be freed because someone else killed more...
Plus, you ignored the other points."
I’ll reply to the bits I wish to. I replied to your statement of job losses and I provided context that’s it’s no different to traditional money sectors.
Please provide better analogy or don’t bother providing it. We are both grown ups that don’t need spoon feeding on this topic .
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *harpDressed ManMan
over a year ago
Here occasionally, but mostly somewhere else |
"More reading on Coinbase.
Last week, they sacked 18% of their full time staff.
It's not just the "currency" that's volatile....
So, massive energy drain, contributor to chip shortage, less stable to work in, and all run by a handful of billionaires.
Yay, crypto.given the scale and the timing, I'm guessing that their staff are paid in USD! "
Legal requirement as I understand it. Otherwise they'd be mega fucked in what's apparently known as a "crypto winter" (because stock market crashes don't sound as edgy  )...
- you're fired, so you now need to pay your employee for access to your wages
- the work you did is now worth less than it was when you did it
- the government calculate tax based on the value when you earnt it
- the CEO is still a billionaire, because HE'S invested in lots of physical property, and you should see his art collection
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"More reading on Coinbase.
Last week, they sacked 18% of their full time staff.
It's not just the "currency" that's volatile....
So, massive energy drain, contributor to chip shortage, less stable to work in, and all run by a handful of billionaires.
Yay, crypto.given the scale and the timing, I'm guessing that their staff are paid in USD!
It’s a Silicon Valley based business. How they’re paid isn’t really the reason. "
why not?
If the companies income is in crypto (I assume they take a percentage of assets) and their outgoings (wages) are crypto then they'd be neutral to a fall in crypto versus the dollar. My guess is that their outgoings are usd and so of crypto falls they have a liquidity gap. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Mine is at about 50% of it's value but it's a small investment that I can lose 100% without it hurting.
Good thing is you will always own the underlying assett no mater it's price.
One bitcoin will always be one bitcoin. "
It’s the value of that bitcoin is that fluctuates.
If you didn’t realise . |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"So Peter to pay Paul. Is the banking system. "
"You'd be a lot easier to understand if you typed full sentences, with verbs and things..."
"What don’t you understand. "
It was the 9 words "So Peter to pay Paul. Is the banking system" that I didn't understand. That grouping of words makes no sense, and they don't seem to relate to the post that you were replying to. Perhaps you should spell it all out for us. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"More reading on Coinbase.
Last week, they sacked 18% of their full time staff.
It's not just the "currency" that's volatile....
So, massive energy drain, contributor to chip shortage, less stable to work in, and all run by a handful of billionaires.
Yay, crypto.given the scale and the timing, I'm guessing that their staff are paid in USD!
It’s a Silicon Valley based business. How they’re paid isn’t really the reason. why not?
If the companies income is in crypto (I assume they take a percentage of assets) and their outgoings (wages) are crypto then they'd be neutral to a fall in crypto versus the dollar. My guess is that their outgoings are usd and so of crypto falls they have a liquidity gap. "
Stop guessing. It can be easily researched if you’re stuck on this line of thought . |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"So Peter to pay Paul. Is the banking system.
You'd be a lot easier to understand if you typed full sentences, with verbs and things...
What don’t you understand.
It was the 9 words "So Peter to pay Paul. Is the banking system" that I didn't understand. That grouping of words makes no sense, and they don't seem to relate to the post that you were replying to. Perhaps you should spell it all out for us."
As you’ve asked so sweetly. I’ll explain.
Ponzi is a scheme that needs to be funded by mugs who buy into it. It’s only successful if ‘Peter is paying Paul’ . This means if a large percentage wish to withdraw from the scheme, the Ponzi collapse.
The banking system is the same , if the mugs want to withdraw their money in large numbers , the bank goes bust. Or is bailed out like in 2008. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"With QE, a central bank purchases securities in an attempt to reduce interest rates, increase the supply of money and drive more lending to consumers and businesses."
You missed out the important part. Which is that the money used to buy the securities is created.
That is, the government issues bonds to the central bank, and the bank then credits the government accounts with some money. The money doesn't get debited from anywhere else, it's just magicked into existence to pay for the bonds. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Ponzi is a scheme that needs to be funded by mugs who buy into it. It’s only successful if ‘Peter is paying Paul’ . This means if a large percentage wish to withdraw from the scheme, the Ponzi collapse.
The banking system is the same , if the mugs want to withdraw their money in large numbers , the bank goes bust. Or is bailed out like in 2008."
A Ponzi scheme pretends to be an investment system, but no investment actually happens, with returns being paid from new members contributions. Ponzi schemes rely on a constant, and ever increasing, supply of new customers to generate the returns for the existing members. When you run out of new customers, the scheme collapses as there is no more income to pay to everyone.
The banking system isn't like that. If it were, the banks would have collapsed long ago, when everyone in the UK had a bank account and there were no more new customers.
If you're trying to say that banks don't hold enough reserves to cover every single creditor, then yes, I agree. But that doesn't make them a fraudulent system set up to con people. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
" A Ponzi scheme pretends to be an investment system, but no investment actually happens, with returns being paid from new members contributions. Ponzi schemes rely on a constant, and ever increasing, supply of new customers to generate the returns for the existing members. When you run out of new customers, the scheme collapses as there is no more income to pay to everyone.
The banking system isn't like that. If it were, the banks would have collapsed long ago, when everyone in the UK had a bank account and there were no more new customers.
If you're trying to say that banks don't hold enough reserves to cover every single creditor, then yes, I agree. But that doesn't make them a fraudulent system set up to con people."
Please refer to 2008 global banking financial crisis and the role played by governments. Perhaps we. An continue after you’ve provided knowledge on 2008. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"With QE, a central bank purchases securities in an attempt to reduce interest rates, increase the supply of money and drive more lending to consumers and businesses.
You missed out the important part. Which is that the money used to buy the securities is created.
That is, the government issues bonds to the central bank, and the bank then credits the government accounts with some money. The money doesn't get debited from anywhere else, it's just magicked into existence to pay for the bonds."
So the government sells bonds. Why do you think the purpose of selling bonds is ? If you’re able explain the other ways governments raise money, when taxation isn’t enough …
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"With QE, a central bank purchases securities in an attempt to reduce interest rates, increase the supply of money and drive more lending to consumers and businesses.
You missed out the important part. Which is that the money used to buy the securities is created.
That is, the government issues bonds to the central bank, and the bank then credits the government accounts with some money. The money doesn't get debited from anywhere else, it's just magicked into existence to pay for the bonds.
So the government sells bonds. Why do you think the purpose of selling bonds is ? If you’re able explain the other ways governments raise money, when taxation isn’t enough …
"
I didn't think the government issued bonds for QE. Instead the central banks bought existing bonds. By loosening reserving requirements.
Happy to be learn more if there is any info out there... I'm trying to get straight what "interest paying reserves" are ... |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *harpDressed ManMan
over a year ago
Here occasionally, but mostly somewhere else |
"
Please refer to 2008 global banking financial crisis and the role played by governments. Perhaps we can continue after you’ve provided knowledge on 2008."
That's not proof that the banking system is a Ponzi scheme, that's you asking someone else to prove it isn't.
In order for the banking system to be a Ponzi scheme, they'd need to be paying interest funded from new depositors, while promising those same depositors a rate of interest.
Since banks are, in the main, neither offering, or paying interest, they cannot be a Ponzi scheme.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Please refer to 2008 global banking financial crisis and the role played by governments. Perhaps we. An continue after you’ve provided knowledge on 2008."
Okey dokey.
Back in 2008 it was discovered that an investment product which banks had been using wasn't as good as it had seemed. In fact it was terrible and a lot of banks lost money. In the UK the government decided to help out the banks to avoid a collapse, and made £500b available to sort things out.
Of the dozens of incorporated banks in the UK, less than 30% took any money from the government funds, and only one bank had to be nationalised to rescue it. That bank, Northern Rock, has now been sold back into public ownership, making a profit for the government.
No bank customer lost any money as a result of the 2008 crisis.
How does that summary compare to the way Ponzi schemes work? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Please refer to 2008 global banking financial crisis and the role played by governments. Perhaps we. An continue after you’ve provided knowledge on 2008.
Okey dokey.
Back in 2008 it was discovered that an investment product which banks had been using wasn't as good as it had seemed. In fact it was terrible and a lot of banks lost money. In the UK the government decided to help out the banks to avoid a collapse, and made £500b available to sort things out.
Of the dozens of incorporated banks in the UK, less than 30% took any money from the government funds, and only one bank had to be nationalised to rescue it. That bank, Northern Rock, has now been sold back into public ownership, making a profit for the government.
No bank customer lost any money as a result of the 2008 crisis.
How does that summary compare to the way Ponzi schemes work?"
Only 1 UK Bank had to be nationalised ? Is that really true ? Let me give you a massive clue : RBS Group
If Ponzi schemes had the same support as Banks, they too would be government protected . |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
hen you deposit money into a bank then you are legally entering into a contract where you are handing over ownership of your money (it now belongs to the bank so they can do whatever they want with it) and in return they contractually oblige to give some money back to upon demand (or whatever the terms are you deposit it under). In reality you give away your money and they give you a piece of plastic that allows you to get some of that money back when you want it.
Because the money is now the legal property of the bank then they can do whatever they want with it - including giving it to other people. They are hoping that the other person is going to give it back to them plus a bit more and then they will have it available for you when you ask for it.
In return for the right to take ownership of peoples money and use it the government has placed a bunch of obligations on banks as to how they use it. The goal of those regulations is to make sure there is always enough money available if people want to access it. But, importantly, it doesn’t have to have all the money all the time. In addition banks can also lend the same bit of money out several times. That is our credit creation works but that is highly dangerous if done wrong (what happens if serval people want the money back at the same time?) and so you have to have a special license and operate under strict rules to be able to do that.
That is how banks work.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"hen you deposit money into a bank then you are legally entering into a contract where you are handing over ownership of your money (it now belongs to the bank so they can do whatever they want with it) and in return they contractually oblige to give some money back to upon demand (or whatever the terms are you deposit it under). In reality you give away your money and they give you a piece of plastic that allows you to get some of that money back when you want it.
Because the money is now the legal property of the bank then they can do whatever they want with it - including giving it to other people. They are hoping that the other person is going to give it back to them plus a bit more and then they will have it available for you when you ask for it.
In return for the right to take ownership of peoples money and use it the government has placed a bunch of obligations on banks as to how they use it. The goal of those regulations is to make sure there is always enough money available if people want to access it. But, importantly, it doesn’t have to have all the money all the time. In addition banks can also lend the same bit of money out several times. That is our credit creation works but that is highly dangerous if done wrong (what happens if serval people want the money back at the same time?) and so you have to have a special license and operate under strict rules to be able to do that.
That is how banks work.
"
I acknowledge what you wrote.
What’s the terms when majority of people want to withdraw their money like in 2008 . Please explain if banks closed their doors to their customers ?
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *harpDressed ManMan
over a year ago
Here occasionally, but mostly somewhere else |
".
What’s the terms when majority of people want to withdraw their money like in 2008 .
"
The term for that is "a run". I'm surprised you don't remember, it was quite a well-documented term at the time. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
I acknowledge what you wrote.
What’s the terms when majority of people want to withdraw their money like in 2008 . Please explain if banks closed their doors to their customers ?
"
If more people want to take money out than the bank has then it goes bust. Just like any other business.
That is what happened in _every_ banking crisis that has ever occurred.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
".
What’s the terms when majority of people want to withdraw their money like in 2008 .
The term for that is "a run". I'm surprised you don't remember, it was quite a well-documented term at the time."
The question wasn’t for you. As you’d know.
So why doesn’t our good friend above know ? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *harpDressed ManMan
over a year ago
Here occasionally, but mostly somewhere else |
".
What’s the terms when majority of people want to withdraw their money like in 2008 .
The term for that is "a run". I'm surprised you don't remember, it was quite a well-documented term at the time.
The question wasn’t for you. As you’d know.
So why doesn’t our good friend above know ?"
Well firstly this is an open forum, secondly you didn't specify any individuals as allowed or disallowed from responding, and thirdly...Nice tangent...Don't think people don't see it. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
" Please explain if banks closed their doors to their customers ?
That's called 5pm."
If you want to distract that’s cool. I won’t be addressing you any further. I’m keen to speak only to those knowledgeable and have clear debating skills. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *harpDressed ManMan
over a year ago
Here occasionally, but mostly somewhere else |
"*employeR
The most sensible post I’ve seen lol "
Are these your elevated debating skills?
I corrected a typo. I also corrected one of yours when I quoted it, but didn't feel the need to call attention to it, because it wasn't pertinent.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"You missed out the important part. Which is that the money used to buy the securities is created.
That is, the government issues bonds to the central bank, and the bank then credits the government accounts with some money. The money doesn't get debited from anywhere else, it's just magicked into existence to pay for the bonds."
"So the government sells bonds. Why do you think the purpose of selling bonds is ? If you’re able explain the other ways governments raise money, when taxation isn’t enough …"
You're going off on a tangent. The important bit is that QE is realised by governments issuing bonds, and Central banks 'printing' money to buy them with. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"You missed out the important part. Which is that the money used to buy the securities is created.
That is, the government issues bonds to the central bank, and the bank then credits the government accounts with some money. The money doesn't get debited from anywhere else, it's just magicked into existence to pay for the bonds.
So the government sells bonds. Why do you think the purpose of selling bonds is ? If you’re able explain the other ways governments raise money, when taxation isn’t enough …
You're going off on a tangent. The important bit is that QE is realised by governments issuing bonds, and Central banks 'printing' money to buy them with."
So, you simply confirmed what I said. It didn’t need to be that difficult . |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"You missed out the important part. Which is that the money used to buy the securities is created.
That is, the government issues bonds to the central bank, and the bank then credits the government accounts with some money. The money doesn't get debited from anywhere else, it's just magicked into existence to pay for the bonds.
So the government sells bonds. Why do you think the purpose of selling bonds is ? If you’re able explain the other ways governments raise money, when taxation isn’t enough …
You're going off on a tangent. The important bit is that QE is realised by governments issuing bonds, and Central banks 'printing' money to buy them with."
do you have an explainer for this. I'm reading the BOE and it isn't lining up. I didn't think any bonds were issued for QR as issuing bonds takes out money. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"You missed out the important part. Which is that the money used to buy the securities is created.
That is, the government issues bonds to the central bank, and the bank then credits the government accounts with some money. The money doesn't get debited from anywhere else, it's just magicked into existence to pay for the bonds.
So the government sells bonds. Why do you think the purpose of selling bonds is ? If you’re able explain the other ways governments raise money, when taxation isn’t enough …
You're going off on a tangent. The important bit is that QE is realised by governments issuing bonds, and Central banks 'printing' money to buy them with.do you have an explainer for this. I'm reading the BOE and it isn't lining up. I didn't think any bonds were issued for QR as issuing bonds takes out money. "
Google more and you’ll find it .
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
A few friends made several thousand pounds but these guys regularly will spend a few grand at casinos they always have expendable cash and gambling is their vice
I made £468 profit from crypto think I’ve possibly got about £13 still in my account amongst various currencies |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"You missed out the important part. Which is that the money used to buy the securities is created.
That is, the government issues bonds to the central bank, and the bank then credits the government accounts with some money. The money doesn't get debited from anywhere else, it's just magicked into existence to pay for the bonds.
So the government sells bonds. Why do you think the purpose of selling bonds is ? If you’re able explain the other ways governments raise money, when taxation isn’t enough …
You're going off on a tangent. The important bit is that QE is realised by governments issuing bonds, and Central banks 'printing' money to buy them with."
I have not been following all the thread but very little money is actually “printed”. What happens is that the central bank increases their internal ledger balances and then uses those balances to buy assets from private banks. They do this by transferring their balance to the banks balance on the central bank books. This has now increased the credit that banks can issue and they use this credit to then increase the credits of customers on their own ledgers. Almost all customers will then use that “money” to pay other customers which will result in ledger balance changes with other banks. This will continue ad nauseum with pretty much no physical money actually being created. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"If people here have played on crypto and lost money. You have my sympathies. If your house has a leaky roof, it doesn’t mean all roofs are bad . "
and winning at roulette doesnt mean the house will go bust.
I cant get past the greater fool theory on crypto. Even tho I believe in the power of Blockchain and the benefits this yields... I struggle to see how the current coins will flip from (speculative) asset to currency. Not why BTC is the Facebook of crypto and not the MySpace. My understanding of block is the underlying tech is improving massively, and so BTC advantage is it is the name for crypto. Like Hoover is synonymous with vacuum cleaners ... |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Only 1 UK Bank had to be nationalised ? Is that really true ? Let me give you a massive clue : RBS Group"
Nationalisation is the transfer of a private company into state hands. RBS was given £45b, and the government bought 50.6% of the shares. It was then left to run as a private business, with the government making sure that it didn't take any unwarranted risks. RBS was never nationalised. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"If Crypto becomes a tracker for the standard financial market, isn't it then just a massive electricity / chip drain for no purpose whatsoever beyond snake oil salesmen?
Exactly! Crypto uses so much energy. There's no way round it.
One of the two main players, Ethereum, is due to merge to a proof of stake reducing its energy requirements by about 98%. Given that countries are now using Bitcoin as legal tender and Ethereum now verifies more transactions per month than visa, the global adoption of these two at least is inevitable. Crypto isnt regulated like the stock market so is much more volatile, but the prices of crypto have dipped just like every other market other than the housing market. If I had spare cash I would be buying up more Ethereum at this low price. Is it the bottom? I don’t know, no one does, but I think it will climb significantly from this point in the next couple of years. Buy for mid term investment and forget about it for a while."
Only El Salvador has declared Bitcoin a legal tender.. Others, allow it to be used but its carefully regulated. (as it should be). 42 Countries have made it illegal (the vast majority African - presumably to stop the African Princes to taking the money out of the country with the help of someone in the UK!) |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"hen you deposit money into a bank then you are legally entering into a contract where you are handing over ownership of your money (it now belongs to the bank so they can do whatever they want with it) and in return they contractually oblige to give some money back to upon demand (or whatever the terms are you deposit it under). In reality you give away your money and they give you a piece of plastic that allows you to get some of that money back when you want it."
This is utterly untrue.
When you give money to a bank you are lending them that money and they are obliged to hand it back to you if you ask for it.
If your version were true, then you would have to sign a contract to transfer your money to them. I don't see any such contract in my bank's terms and conditions. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"hen you deposit money into a bank then you are legally entering into a contract where you are handing over ownership of your money (it now belongs to the bank so they can do whatever they want with it) and in return they contractually oblige to give some money back to upon demand (or whatever the terms are you deposit it under). In reality you give away your money and they give you a piece of plastic that allows you to get some of that money back when you want it.
This is utterly untrue.
When you give money to a bank you are lending them that money and they are obliged to hand it back to you if you ask for it.
If your version were true, then you would have to sign a contract to transfer your money to them. I don't see any such contract in my bank's terms and conditions."
Thank you for highlighting this.
This is why misinformation is dangerous . Especially from people who come across as being knowledgeable.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"So, you simply confirmed what I said. It didn’t need to be that difficult .
I confirmed the bit that you forgot to say, the bit that was the important part of how QE works.
You're welcome."
Why should I have had to . |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
" Only El Salvador has declared Bitcoin a legal tender.. Others, allow it to be used but its carefully regulated. (as it should be). 42 Countries have made it illegal (the vast majority African - presumably to stop the African Princes to taking the money out of the country with the help of someone in the UK!)"
It isn’t Fabs forum without racism being applied for good measure. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
" Only El Salvador has declared Bitcoin a legal tender.. Others, allow it to be used but its carefully regulated. (as it should be). 42 Countries have made it illegal (the vast majority African - presumably to stop the African Princes to taking the money out of the country with the help of someone in the UK!)
It isn’t Fabs forum without racism being applied for good measure. "
is it illegal in parts of Africa ... And if so, why ?
(I'd be cynical and say it's lobbying from the money transfer companies who rinse poor people) |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I didn't think the government issued bonds for QE. Instead the central banks bought existing bonds. By loosening reserving requirements.
Happy to be learn more if there is any info out there... I'm trying to get straight what "interest paying reserves" are ..."
I think you're mixing up 2 things here. The government can issue bonds, if they need more money, or the central banks can buy existing bonds from others to inject money directly into the economy.
Another thing that can be done to stimulate the economy is loosening reserving requirements. Banks are required to hold some money, to ensure their liquidity. They might be required to hold, say 30% of their customers money in reserve, to make sure that they can keep going if the markets turn bad. The central bank can relax that rule (say down to 20%) to give the banks more money to invest.
"Interest paying reserves" seems to be US-speak for reserves that are held by the central bank, which then pays interest to the owners. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I didn't think the government issued bonds for QE. Instead the central banks bought existing bonds. By loosening reserving requirements.
Happy to be learn more if there is any info out there... I'm trying to get straight what "interest paying reserves" are ...
I think you're mixing up 2 things here. The government can issue bonds, if they need more money, or the central banks can buy existing bonds from others to inject money directly into the economy.
Another thing that can be done to stimulate the economy is loosening reserving requirements. Banks are required to hold some money, to ensure their liquidity. They might be required to hold, say 30% of their customers money in reserve, to make sure that they can keep going if the markets turn bad. The central bank can relax that rule (say down to 20%) to give the banks more money to invest.
"Interest paying reserves" seems to be US-speak for reserves that are held by the central bank, which then pays interest to the owners."
I’m not mixed up about QE. Unless my source material is wrong. I acknowledge the other stuff you posted . |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I didn't think the government issued bonds for QE. Instead the central banks bought existing bonds. By loosening reserving requirements.
Happy to be learn more if there is any info out there... I'm trying to get straight what "interest paying reserves" are ...
I think you're mixing up 2 things here. The government can issue bonds, if they need more money, or the central banks can buy existing bonds from others to inject money directly into the economy.
Another thing that can be done to stimulate the economy is loosening reserving requirements. Banks are required to hold some money, to ensure their liquidity. They might be required to hold, say 30% of their customers money in reserve, to make sure that they can keep going if the markets turn bad. The central bank can relax that rule (say down to 20%) to give the banks more money to invest.
"Interest paying reserves" seems to be US-speak for reserves that are held by the central bank, which then pays interest to the owners."
agree on the last bit (as an FYI, interest paying reserves was from BoE website)
I think that's how QE works. Bose takes hold of an asset and the bond holder sees an increase in their account, but no change in capital requirements for the bank. So effectively their reserving requirement has increased).
BoE can sell the bonds later (QT) or let them mature. I have no idea the effect this has. QT is like burning money i guess as it takes it out of circulation. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *harpDressed ManMan
over a year ago
Here occasionally, but mostly somewhere else |
" Only El Salvador has declared Bitcoin a legal tender.. Others, allow it to be used but its carefully regulated. (as it should be). 42 Countries have made it illegal (the vast majority African - presumably to stop the African Princes to taking the money out of the country with the help of someone in the UK!)
It isn’t Fabs forum without racism being applied for good measure. "
Here's the source of the "42" list.
https://tile.loc.gov/storage-services/service/ll/llglrd/2021687419/2021687419.pdf
It seems pretty factual to me, I don't immediately see any bigotry in it, but then I'm not looking for a diversionary tangent.
YMMV |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
Appears to have got very serious and deep quite fast.
I have various bit coins, all on coinbase. Except XRP as coinbase no longer support them. Whole new thread for that i'm sure.
Didnt invest much, some went way up, sold some, some didnt. I can afford to lose my investment money which i have actually taken out in gains.
It will never make me a millionaire and i wont lose slepp over it if it were to crash.
On a lighter note, i have some magic beans if anyone wants to buy them.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"hen you deposit money into a bank then you are legally entering into a contract where you are handing over ownership of your money (it now belongs to the bank so they can do whatever they want with it) and in return they contractually oblige to give some money back to upon demand (or whatever the terms are you deposit it under). In reality you give away your money and they give you a piece of plastic that allows you to get some of that money back when you want it.
This is utterly untrue.
When you give money to a bank you are lending them that money and they are obliged to hand it back to you if you ask for it.
If your version were true, then you would have to sign a contract to transfer your money to them. I don't see any such contract in my bank's terms and conditions."
When you deposit money into a bank it becomes _their_ property. You are right that you have lent them money and as result they now have a liability to you which is why the money in deposits in their balance sheet is marked as a liability. If it was your money then it couldn’t appear on their balance sheet.
Case law from 200+years ago says that you have lent it to them and they now own it. That is why they can lend it about again without having to ask your permission. It is also why they can give you any money they have available when you ask for it rather than the _exact_ notes you deposited that they would have had to give you if you owned the money.
The reason you don’t see it specified in your T&Cs is that it is covered by banking law. The part you do see visibly in your contract are the terms that describe how you can get back _some_ money that are above and beyond banking laws: term deposits, card mechanisms etc.
Strangely banks don’t tend to mention the part about you handing over ownership of your money in return for a debt obligation on the bank because it starts to scare people. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Only 1 UK Bank had to be nationalised ? Is that really true ? Let me give you a massive clue : RBS Group
Nationalisation is the transfer of a private company into state hands. RBS was given £45b, and the government bought 50.6% of the shares. It was then left to run as a private business, with the government making sure that it didn't take any unwarranted risks. RBS was never nationalised."
No, but Lloyds TSB was. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *harpDressed ManMan
over a year ago
Here occasionally, but mostly somewhere else |
"Only 1 UK Bank had to be nationalised ? Is that really true ? Let me give you a massive clue : RBS Group
Nationalisation is the transfer of a private company into state hands. RBS was given £45b, and the government bought 50.6% of the shares. It was then left to run as a private business, with the government making sure that it didn't take any unwarranted risks. RBS was never nationalised.
No, but Lloyds TSB was. "
Sorry, no. 43% government shares.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Only 1 UK Bank had to be nationalised ? Is that really true ? Let me give you a massive clue : RBS Group
Nationalisation is the transfer of a private company into state hands. RBS was given £45b, and the government bought 50.6% of the shares. It was then left to run as a private business, with the government making sure that it didn't take any unwarranted risks. RBS was never nationalised."
The Government owned 63% of the RBSG. Installing it own new CEO and Chairmen . It maybe have been run as a private business, but was essentially nationalised . |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Only 1 UK Bank had to be nationalised ? Is that really true ? Let me give you a massive clue : RBS Group
Nationalisation is the transfer of a private company into state hands. RBS was given £45b, and the government bought 50.6% of the shares. It was then left to run as a private business, with the government making sure that it didn't take any unwarranted risks. RBS was never nationalised.
No, but Lloyds TSB was. "
The Government appointed a new CEO for the banking group . Of course it was pretty much nationalised . |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *harpDressed ManMan
over a year ago
Here occasionally, but mostly somewhere else |
Please keep quoting that.
Please.
Everywhere I post.
Follow me around, quoting the entirety of one of my posts.
Go on. I won't report you for it, I swear.
All I'll do is explain it to anyone who asks. I won't volunteer it, I'll wait to be asked.
Fill. Your. Boots. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Case law from 200+years ago says that you have lent it to them and they now own it."
Those concepts are contradictory. If you lent it to them, they cannot own it.
But let's not squabble about it. Why don't you tell us which legal case you are talking about, and then we can all see how it works. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
» Add a new message to this topic
