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Inclusive language
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Following on from my pronouns thread and the fact it’s pride month  I thought I’d just share some information about inclusive language
I think a lot of people get confused so here’s the basics;
AFAB = assigned female at birth
AMAB= assigned male at birth
Cis(gender)= gender aligns with birth sex
Trans(gender)= gender does not align with birth sex
FTM= female to male
MTF= male to female
Non-binary= does not fit on the traditional gender binary and identifies outside of male and female
Enby= phonetic way of saying NB to describe non-binary people
Pronouns= how a person refers to themselves. Often correlates with gender identity but doesn’t always; she/her is typically used for females / women, he/him for men/males, and they/them for nb but not always
I hope that clears some things up! I would hate for people to be ‘left behind’ in this changing world! And hopefully it avoids conflicts!
Also, ask me anything! I know a lot of people are older than me and are unfamiliar with the concepts of pronouns and non-binary people etc. so ask me anything and I’ll try to reply! I enjoy people who wish to be educated about these things! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Thanks !
So NB isn't so to do with birth sex, or a non xx / xy chromosomal make up, but gender.
(I struggle as cis male to get my head around one feels a gender)
|
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Thanks !
So NB isn't so to do with birth sex, or a non xx / xy chromosomal make up, but gender.
(I struggle as cis male to get my head around one feels a gender)
"
Yes; I guess you could describe it as that!
Basically; I’m AFAB but I identify as non-binary; my sex is female but my gender is non-binary as I don’t identify with the typical gender binary. On the contrary, you as a cis male are AMAB and your gender is male; so your sex and gender align! |
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"Following on from my pronouns thread and the fact it’s pride month I thought I’d just share some information about inclusive language
I think a lot of people get confused so here’s the basics;
AFAB = assigned female at birth
AMAB= assigned male at birth
Cis(gender)= gender aligns with birth sex
Trans(gender)= gender does not align with birth sex
FTM= female to male
MTF= male to female
Non-binary= does not fit on the traditional gender binary and identifies outside of male and female
Enby= phonetic way of saying NB to describe non-binary people
Pronouns= how a person refers to themselves. Often correlates with gender identity but doesn’t always; she/her is typically used for females / women, he/him for men/males, and they/them for nb but not always
I hope that clears some things up! I would hate for people to be ‘left behind’ in this changing world! And hopefully it avoids conflicts!
Also, ask me anything! I know a lot of people are older than me and are unfamiliar with the concepts of pronouns and non-binary people etc. so ask me anything and I’ll try to reply! I enjoy people who wish to be educated about these things! "
Thank you for taking the time to write this.
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By *aliceWoman
over a year ago
Birmingham |
Great Post but I'd gently point out ftm and mtf are increasingly being disused by lgbt organisations as they focus on physical characteristics,and can be invalidating to those who don't can't medically transition.
Many transwomen and transmen would also take the view that in terms of heir own identity, there was never a transition from male to female or vice versa. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Thanks !
So NB isn't so to do with birth sex, or a non xx / xy chromosomal make up, but gender.
(I struggle as cis male to get my head around one feels a gender)
Yes; I guess you could describe it as that!
Basically; I’m AFAB but I identify as non-binary; my sex is female but my gender is non-binary as I don’t identify with the typical gender binary. On the contrary, you as a cis male are AMAB and your gender is male; so your sex and gender align! "
can you expand on what identifying with a gender or not means. How do you "know" what the right gender is, or isn't ? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Great Post but I'd gently point out ftm and mtf are increasingly being disused by lgbt organisations as they focus on physical characteristics,and can be invalidating to those who don't can't medically transition.
Many transwomen and transmen would also take the view that in terms of heir own identity, there was never a transition from male to female or vice versa."
Definitely! I think I’m so used to hearing them over my teen years from my trans friends that I just automatically revert to them, so thank you for adding this point! |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Thanks !
So NB isn't so to do with birth sex, or a non xx / xy chromosomal make up, but gender.
(I struggle as cis male to get my head around one feels a gender)
Yes; I guess you could describe it as that!
Basically; I’m AFAB but I identify as non-binary; my sex is female but my gender is non-binary as I don’t identify with the typical gender binary. On the contrary, you as a cis male are AMAB and your gender is male; so your sex and gender align! can you expand on what identifying with a gender or not means. How do you "know" what the right gender is, or isn't ?"
To me; I feel extreme discomfort at presenting or being seen as either a man or woman. I don’t feel that I fit in with ‘any’ gender; I wouldn’t want to be seen as a man and I wouldn’t want to be seen as a woman. I am femme presenting (dress feminine etc) but I’m also quite androgynous; personally for me my gender identity is more how I feel as opposed to how I present; but every trans person is different in regards to this.
I just don’t feel happy being a woman, and I don’t feel happy being a man either. Gender is a spectrum and I definitely feel that I fall outside of that; for now, non-binary is working fine for me as a label. I feel happy with it  |
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By *aliceWoman
over a year ago
Birmingham |
"Great Post but I'd gently point out ftm and mtf are increasingly being disused by lgbt organisations as they focus on physical characteristics,and can be invalidating to those who don't can't medically transition.
Many transwomen and transmen would also take the view that in terms of heir own identity, there was never a transition from male to female or vice versa.
Definitely! I think I’m so used to hearing them over my teen years from my trans friends that I just automatically revert to them, so thank you for adding this point! "
You're welcome and I applaud you being open to my comment. Language is evolving rapidly as you know and many terms used to describe us, and still used by many trans people to describe themselves, are now being updated and modernised.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Thanks !
So NB isn't so to do with birth sex, or a non xx / xy chromosomal make up, but gender.
(I struggle as cis male to get my head around one feels a gender)
Yes; I guess you could describe it as that!
Basically; I’m AFAB but I identify as non-binary; my sex is female but my gender is non-binary as I don’t identify with the typical gender binary. On the contrary, you as a cis male are AMAB and your gender is male; so your sex and gender align! can you expand on what identifying with a gender or not means. How do you "know" what the right gender is, or isn't ?
To me; I feel extreme discomfort at presenting or being seen as either a man or woman. I don’t feel that I fit in with ‘any’ gender; I wouldn’t want to be seen as a man and I wouldn’t want to be seen as a woman. I am femme presenting (dress feminine etc) but I’m also quite androgynous; personally for me my gender identity is more how I feel as opposed to how I present; but every trans person is different in regards to this.
I just don’t feel happy being a woman, and I don’t feel happy being a man either. Gender is a spectrum and I definitely feel that I fall outside of that; for now, non-binary is working fine for me as a label. I feel happy with it "
thank you. The idea of being seen has given me a different angle to ponder. |
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By *aliceWoman
over a year ago
Birmingham |
"Thanks !
So NB isn't so to do with birth sex, or a non xx / xy chromosomal make up, but gender.
(I struggle as cis male to get my head around one feels a gender)
Yes; I guess you could describe it as that!
Basically; I’m AFAB but I identify as non-binary; my sex is female but my gender is non-binary as I don’t identify with the typical gender binary. On the contrary, you as a cis male are AMAB and your gender is male; so your sex and gender align! can you expand on what identifying with a gender or not means. How do you "know" what the right gender is, or isn't ?"
The same way gay people know they are gay. You just know. (At some point. Took me a lot longer than I'd have liked to accept it)
Sex is based in biology as you said earlier in relation to chromosomes etc.
What you may not know is that gender identity is heavily linked to biology too; neurochemical.
Research is increasingly showing that approx 1pc of people are trans and have diferrent neurochemical makeup. It's still a relatively new field in terms of research, although trans people have been documented in most cultures going back thousands of years. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Thank you for this thread OP!
Enlightening and very important information, never knew enby was the phonetic pronunciation of nb, so you learn something new everyday!"
When I first learnt it; it blew my mind hahahah! Definitely easier for some people than writing non-binary all the time; also quicker to understand than ‘nb’ in my opinion |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Pride month? is it really?
Are you sure? Id not heard a thing about it anywhere  "
Yes, it’s pride month! But a lot of places in England usually hold their pride events in July or August. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Pride month? is it really?
Are you sure? Id not heard a thing about it anywhere
Yes, it’s pride month! But a lot of places in England usually hold their pride events in July or August. "
In the U.K., sorry* |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Pride month? is it really?
Are you sure? Id not heard a thing about it anywhere
Yes, it’s pride month! But a lot of places in England usually hold their pride events in July or August.
In the U.K., sorry*"
pride quarter then? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Pride month? is it really?
Are you sure? Id not heard a thing about it anywhere
Yes, it’s pride month! But a lot of places in England usually hold their pride events in July or August.
In the U.K., sorry*pride quarter then?"
Huh? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Pride month? is it really?
Are you sure? Id not heard a thing about it anywhere
Yes, it’s pride month! But a lot of places in England usually hold their pride events in July or August.
In the U.K., sorry*pride quarter then?
Huh? "
3 months is a quarter  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I hope this question isn't a problem to ask. So cisgender bothers me - I don't feel I have a gender identity. I recognise that others may do. How does that balance? When I say it bothers me, I don't object to the word or it being used about me or anything like that - it's just...it doesn't add up for me. I know it's the opposite to trans, but there's an implication that I believe in gender for myself. And I believe in it for other people who feel it, but not me. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I hope this question isn't a problem to ask. So cisgender bothers me - I don't feel I have a gender identity. I recognise that others may do. How does that balance? When I say it bothers me, I don't object to the word or it being used about me or anything like that - it's just...it doesn't add up for me. I know it's the opposite to trans, but there's an implication that I believe in gender for myself. And I believe in it for other people who feel it, but not me. "
I suppose in that instance; you could only use cisgender when absolutely necessary, like in medical settings? I consider myself transgender but I often don’t tell people, I just say I’m non-binary etc much like how I never said I was cis when I identified as a woman. I think the terms cis and trans can be used by a person whenever they want; I can understand it in medical settings, but if you don’t feel the need to use them, that’s completely understand. Unless I’ve completely misinterpreted your comment aha |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Thanks. Although I have quite a dark sense of humour and like to take the piss I never actively try to offend. So stuff like this really helps.  "
No worries! I like to help as much as I can! |
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By *aliceWoman
over a year ago
Birmingham |
"I hope this question isn't a problem to ask. So cisgender bothers me - I don't feel I have a gender identity. I recognise that others may do. How does that balance? When I say it bothers me, I don't object to the word or it being used about me or anything like that - it's just...it doesn't add up for me. I know it's the opposite to trans, but there's an implication that I believe in gender for myself. And I believe in it for other people who feel it, but not me. "
Cisgender is only really used to diferrentiate in trans related conversations, I'd never personally use it unless it helped someone to understand a point I was making.
Equally, I don't identify as transgender. I identify as a woman. Transgender is just a term I have to use to explain myself, or in medical setting etc or to help people feel less confused about me.
So I'd only use cis in a medical conversation as annabel mentioned, or in a sentence like 'as a transwomen it's really affirming and empowering to be complimented by cis women' because saying 'as a women its really affirming and empowering to be complimented by women' wouldn't convey the same sentiment with the same clarity.
As for you not feeling a gender identity, I think that's common for most people, including many trans people. Your sense of self is innate and not conscious. Gender just means socially constructed sense of maleness or femaleness really. So when we say mens clothes or women's clothes thats gender rather than sex, because in most cases theres no sex based reason for a diferrence. (Eg why men wear suits for office based work and women generally dont) |
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By *ea monkeyMan
over a year ago
Manchester (he/him) |
I love this thread so much OP!
Whilst I did already know these terms, I think that openness, education, support and discussion are the basis of the forums, so this type of discussion is very very welcome. It’s also important |
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"Thanks !
So NB isn't so to do with birth sex, or a non xx / xy chromosomal make up, but gender.
(I struggle as cis male to get my head around one feels a gender)
Yes; I guess you could describe it as that!
Basically; I’m AFAB but I identify as non-binary; my sex is female but my gender is non-binary as I don’t identify with the typical gender binary. On the contrary, you as a cis male are AMAB and your gender is male; so your sex and gender align! can you expand on what identifying with a gender or not means. How do you "know" what the right gender is, or isn't ?
To me; I feel extreme discomfort at presenting or being seen as either a man or woman. I don’t feel that I fit in with ‘any’ gender; I wouldn’t want to be seen as a man and I wouldn’t want to be seen as a woman. I am femme presenting (dress feminine etc) but I’m also quite androgynous; personally for me my gender identity is more how I feel as opposed to how I present; but every trans person is different in regards to this.
I just don’t feel happy being a woman, and I don’t feel happy being a man either. Gender is a spectrum and I definitely feel that I fall outside of that; for now, non-binary is working fine for me as a label. I feel happy with it "
Have you considered that the root of your unhappiness is nothing to do with what you identify as? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Thanks !
So NB isn't so to do with birth sex, or a non xx / xy chromosomal make up, but gender.
(I struggle as cis male to get my head around one feels a gender)
Yes; I guess you could describe it as that!
Basically; I’m AFAB but I identify as non-binary; my sex is female but my gender is non-binary as I don’t identify with the typical gender binary. On the contrary, you as a cis male are AMAB and your gender is male; so your sex and gender align! can you expand on what identifying with a gender or not means. How do you "know" what the right gender is, or isn't ?
To me; I feel extreme discomfort at presenting or being seen as either a man or woman. I don’t feel that I fit in with ‘any’ gender; I wouldn’t want to be seen as a man and I wouldn’t want to be seen as a woman. I am femme presenting (dress feminine etc) but I’m also quite androgynous; personally for me my gender identity is more how I feel as opposed to how I present; but every trans person is different in regards to this.
I just don’t feel happy being a woman, and I don’t feel happy being a man either. Gender is a spectrum and I definitely feel that I fall outside of that; for now, non-binary is working fine for me as a label. I feel happy with it
Have you considered that the root of your unhappiness is nothing to do with what you identify as? "
Yes; for several years. I’ve struggled with my gender identity all my life, especially as a teenager when I hit puberty. I only recently realised that I’m non-binary, and everything seems to have fallen into place. I now feel much happier and much freer! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I hope this question isn't a problem to ask. So cisgender bothers me - I don't feel I have a gender identity. I recognise that others may do. How does that balance? When I say it bothers me, I don't object to the word or it being used about me or anything like that - it's just...it doesn't add up for me. I know it's the opposite to trans, but there's an implication that I believe in gender for myself. And I believe in it for other people who feel it, but not me.
I suppose in that instance; you could only use cisgender when absolutely necessary, like in medical settings? I consider myself transgender but I often don’t tell people, I just say I’m non-binary etc much like how I never said I was cis when I identified as a woman. I think the terms cis and trans can be used by a person whenever they want; I can understand it in medical settings, but if you don’t feel the need to use them, that’s completely understand. Unless I’ve completely misinterpreted your comment aha"
I guess I just wanted to run it past the thread. Thank you. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Thanks !
So NB isn't so to do with birth sex, or a non xx / xy chromosomal make up, but gender.
(I struggle as cis male to get my head around one feels a gender)
Yes; I guess you could describe it as that!
Basically; I’m AFAB but I identify as non-binary; my sex is female but my gender is non-binary as I don’t identify with the typical gender binary. On the contrary, you as a cis male are AMAB and your gender is male; so your sex and gender align! can you expand on what identifying with a gender or not means. How do you "know" what the right gender is, or isn't ?
To me; I feel extreme discomfort at presenting or being seen as either a man or woman. I don’t feel that I fit in with ‘any’ gender; I wouldn’t want to be seen as a man and I wouldn’t want to be seen as a woman. I am femme presenting (dress feminine etc) but I’m also quite androgynous; personally for me my gender identity is more how I feel as opposed to how I present; but every trans person is different in regards to this.
I just don’t feel happy being a woman, and I don’t feel happy being a man either. Gender is a spectrum and I definitely feel that I fall outside of that; for now, non-binary is working fine for me as a label. I feel happy with it "
Great thread OP. Your explanation of how you feel about your gender identity really resonates. I used to feel I was androgynous, with a female body and a male brain. It's probably something to do with me being autistic. However, as the years have gone by I have come to feel that there are many different ways of being a woman. My particular version of womanhood involves being a huge sci-fi geek, no interest in shopping or having my nails done, a great sense of direction and an obsessive interest in Tolkein. On paper I sound like a geeky teenage boy. I've come to consider that the only thing that is binary is our biological sex (most of the time, I know there are exceptions) but gender is a spectrum rather than the very limited and specific traditional gender norms that are thrust upon us from birth. There are many ways to be a woman and many ways to be a man. I very much feel like a woman now, a particularly geeky version of a woman. As a result I feel a bit uncomfortable with the term transgender, as it would be more accurate to describe the feeling of being in the wrong body as transsexual. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I hope this question isn't a problem to ask. So cisgender bothers me - I don't feel I have a gender identity. I recognise that others may do. How does that balance? When I say it bothers me, I don't object to the word or it being used about me or anything like that - it's just...it doesn't add up for me. I know it's the opposite to trans, but there's an implication that I believe in gender for myself. And I believe in it for other people who feel it, but not me.
Cisgender is only really used to diferrentiate in trans related conversations, I'd never personally use it unless it helped someone to understand a point I was making.
Equally, I don't identify as transgender. I identify as a woman. Transgender is just a term I have to use to explain myself, or in medical setting etc or to help people feel less confused about me.
So I'd only use cis in a medical conversation as annabel mentioned, or in a sentence like 'as a transwomen it's really affirming and empowering to be complimented by cis women' because saying 'as a women its really affirming and empowering to be complimented by women' wouldn't convey the same sentiment with the same clarity.
As for you not feeling a gender identity, I think that's common for most people, including many trans people. Your sense of self is innate and not conscious. Gender just means socially constructed sense of maleness or femaleness really. So when we say mens clothes or women's clothes thats gender rather than sex, because in most cases theres no sex based reason for a diferrence. (Eg why men wear suits for office based work and women generally dont)"
Using it for clarity makes perfect sense. In real life if I'd asked the question I would have been shouted at - it's really nice to have a calm forum to talk about it. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I hope this question isn't a problem to ask. So cisgender bothers me - I don't feel I have a gender identity. I recognise that others may do. How does that balance? When I say it bothers me, I don't object to the word or it being used about me or anything like that - it's just...it doesn't add up for me. I know it's the opposite to trans, but there's an implication that I believe in gender for myself. And I believe in it for other people who feel it, but not me.
Cisgender is only really used to diferrentiate in trans related conversations, I'd never personally use it unless it helped someone to understand a point I was making.
Equally, I don't identify as transgender. I identify as a woman. Transgender is just a term I have to use to explain myself, or in medical setting etc or to help people feel less confused about me.
So I'd only use cis in a medical conversation as annabel mentioned, or in a sentence like 'as a transwomen it's really affirming and empowering to be complimented by cis women' because saying 'as a women its really affirming and empowering to be complimented by women' wouldn't convey the same sentiment with the same clarity.
As for you not feeling a gender identity, I think that's common for most people, including many trans people. Your sense of self is innate and not conscious. Gender just means socially constructed sense of maleness or femaleness really. So when we say mens clothes or women's clothes thats gender rather than sex, because in most cases theres no sex based reason for a diferrence. (Eg why men wear suits for office based work and women generally dont)
Using it for clarity makes perfect sense. In real life if I'd asked the question I would have been shouted at - it's really nice to have a calm forum to talk about it. "
Unfortunately I think a lot of people jump the gun in conversations like this  admittedly I’ve done it myself as I often have my defences up due to experiencing transphobia/homophobia etc; and I also think a lot of people see it as a political discussion, which it definitely shouldn’t be.
But yes, I agree! It’s nice to have a calm thread where we can all discuss these things. It’s also nice to have a thread where we can have differing opinions; I’d hate to create an echo chamber. As long as a persons opinions aren’t transphobic or homophobic then they aren’t hurting anyone! People have differing opinions and that’s okay; a lot of people probably won’t agree with my opinions and I don’t agree with others opinions but that’s just what they are; opinions!
As long as people respect me, my gender and my identity, I’m fine |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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A good pictogram to help is the genderbread person, easy to understand the differences between gender identity, biological sex, sexual orientation and gender expression. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"A good pictogram to help is the genderbread person, easy to understand the differences between gender identity, biological sex, sexual orientation and gender expression."
Genderbread person? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Following on from my pronouns thread and the fact it’s pride month I thought I’d just share some information about inclusive language
I think a lot of people get confused so here’s the basics;
AFAB = assigned female at birth
AMAB= assigned male at birth
Cis(gender)= gender aligns with birth sex
Trans(gender)= gender does not align with birth sex
FTM= female to male
MTF= male to female
Non-binary= does not fit on the traditional gender binary and identifies outside of male and female
Enby= phonetic way of saying NB to describe non-binary people
Pronouns= how a person refers to themselves. Often correlates with gender identity but doesn’t always; she/her is typically used for females / women, he/him for men/males, and they/them for nb but not always
I hope that clears some things up! I would hate for people to be ‘left behind’ in this changing world! And hopefully it avoids conflicts!
Also, ask me anything! I know a lot of people are older than me and are unfamiliar with the concepts of pronouns and non-binary people etc. so ask me anything and I’ll try to reply! I enjoy people who wish to be educated about these things! "
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"A good pictogram to help is the genderbread person, easy to understand the differences between gender identity, biological sex, sexual orientation and gender expression.
Genderbread person?"
It’s a diagram that explains a lot of things; if you Google it it should come up |
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By *adyJayneWoman
over a year ago
Burnleyish (She/They) |
"As for you not feeling a gender identity, I think that's common for most people, including many trans people. Your sense of self is innate and not conscious. Gender just means socially constructed sense of maleness or femaleness really. So when we say mens clothes or women's clothes thats gender rather than sex, because in most cases theres no sex based reason for a diferrence. (Eg why men wear suits for office based work and women generally dont)"
Malice! You flipping legend. I'm genuinely saving this as a note in my phone so when it comes up in conversation here (and elsewhere) I have something wonderfully and beautifully worded.
As someones whose never had something so fixed when it comes to gender I've always struggled to explain it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I hope this question isn't a problem to ask. So cisgender bothers me - I don't feel I have a gender identity. I recognise that others may do. How does that balance? When I say it bothers me, I don't object to the word or it being used about me or anything like that - it's just...it doesn't add up for me. I know it's the opposite to trans, but there's an implication that I believe in gender for myself. And I believe in it for other people who feel it, but not me.
Cisgender is only really used to diferrentiate in trans related conversations, I'd never personally use it unless it helped someone to understand a point I was making.
Equally, I don't identify as transgender. I identify as a woman. Transgender is just a term I have to use to explain myself, or in medical setting etc or to help people feel less confused about me.
So I'd only use cis in a medical conversation as annabel mentioned, or in a sentence like 'as a transwomen it's really affirming and empowering to be complimented by cis women' because saying 'as a women its really affirming and empowering to be complimented by women' wouldn't convey the same sentiment with the same clarity.
As for you not feeling a gender identity, I think that's common for most people, including many trans people. Your sense of self is innate and not conscious. Gender just means socially constructed sense of maleness or femaleness really. So when we say mens clothes or women's clothes thats gender rather than sex, because in most cases theres no sex based reason for a diferrence. (Eg why men wear suits for office based work and women generally dont)
Using it for clarity makes perfect sense. In real life if I'd asked the question I would have been shouted at - it's really nice to have a calm forum to talk about it.
Unfortunately I think a lot of people jump the gun in conversations like this admittedly I’ve done it myself as I often have my defences up due to experiencing transphobia/homophobia etc; and I also think a lot of people see it as a political discussion, which it definitely shouldn’t be.
But yes, I agree! It’s nice to have a calm thread where we can all discuss these things. It’s also nice to have a thread where we can have differing opinions; I’d hate to create an echo chamber. As long as a persons opinions aren’t transphobic or homophobic then they aren’t hurting anyone! People have differing opinions and that’s okay; a lot of people probably won’t agree with my opinions and I don’t agree with others opinions but that’s just what they are; opinions!
As long as people respect me, my gender and my identity, I’m fine "
I can understand why your defences might go up - you've shared some of the grief you get. |
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"I hope this question isn't a problem to ask. So cisgender bothers me - I don't feel I have a gender identity. I recognise that others may do. How does that balance? When I say it bothers me, I don't object to the word or it being used about me or anything like that - it's just...it doesn't add up for me. I know it's the opposite to trans, but there's an implication that I believe in gender for myself. And I believe in it for other people who feel it, but not me. "
If you don't believe you have a gender you're probably not cis gender. There's also agender too that you may find you identify more with . |
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"If you're non binary, how can you be lesbian? Unless you only go after other non binary people. "
To be fair, fab has very limited sexuality options. They probably just chose what was the closest fit. I had to do the same. |
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"If you're non binary, how can you be lesbian? Unless you only go after other non binary people. "
Surely on FAB it's about choosing the option that most fits your needs rather than a "Life Label"? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"If you're non binary, how can you be lesbian? Unless you only go after other non binary people. "
I’d recommend some research about this; Google can probably explain it better than me. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If you're non binary, how can you be lesbian? Unless you only go after other non binary people. "
I'm now questioning whether sexuality is linked to sex or gender. Or a bit of both?
Which is why we have lots of straight men who will meet people who present as female.
I guess it's a broad way of expressing a high level filter. |
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"If you're non binary, how can you be lesbian? Unless you only go after other non binary people. I'm now questioning whether sexuality is linked to sex or gender. Or a bit of both?
Which is why we have lots of straight men who will meet people who present as female.
I guess it's a broad way of expressing a high level filter. "
I'm not necessarily the person to ask, I'm cis and recognise my privilege, but I see biological sex, gender, and sexuality as existing along separate continuums. So I'm biologically female (which to me is only important medically). My gender (felt sense of how I exist as compared to our cultural binary) is female. And I'm bisexual.
So... Like anything else really. Someone can be blonde with blue eyes, but that doesn't mean that someone else can't be blonde with brown eyes. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"A good pictogram to help is the genderbread person, easy to understand the differences between gender identity, biological sex, sexual orientation and gender expression.
Genderbread person?
It’s a diagram that explains a lot of things; if you Google it it should come up "
I've tried flipping this to race to help me.
Suppose a kid is born to a white upper class women and a black Nigerian dad.
At birth, the kid may look "white" and so (if the doctor had to assign a face and has no knowledge of parentage) is assigned "white"
The kid, growing up with both parents identifies as mixed.
However they are schooled at Eton, and generally adopt western traditions and mannerisms, so present largely as white.
Does that work ?
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By *aliceWoman
over a year ago
Birmingham |
Lesbian is so much more than a sexuality. It can be a movement, an ideology, a very deep rooted sense of self and understanding. It doesn't need to correlate to gender identity in a neatly ordered 'dictionary definition' way and for a lot of non-binary people being gay or lesbian is as much about queerness and who they are as it is who they like to go to bed with.
Please note this is a general observation I'm not trying to speak for annabel. |
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By *aliceWoman
over a year ago
Birmingham |
"A good pictogram to help is the genderbread person, easy to understand the differences between gender identity, biological sex, sexual orientation and gender expression.
Genderbread person?
It’s a diagram that explains a lot of things; if you Google it it should come up
I've tried flipping this to race to help me.
Suppose a kid is born to a white upper class women and a black Nigerian dad.
At birth, the kid may look "white" and so (if the doctor had to assign a face and has no knowledge of parentage) is assigned "white"
The kid, growing up with both parents identifies as mixed.
However they are schooled at Eton, and generally adopt western traditions and mannerisms, so present largely as white.
Does that work ?
"
Sex is anatomical at birth
Gender identity is your mental sense of who you are
Gender expression is how present your identity to others
Sexuality is who you're romantically or sexually attracted to
The relationship of each to each other can be close, separate, or anywhere in between.
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"Lesbian is so much more than a sexuality. It can be a movement, an ideology, a very deep rooted sense of self and understanding. It doesn't need to correlate to gender identity in a neatly ordered 'dictionary definition' way and for a lot of non-binary people being gay or lesbian is as much about queerness and who they are as it is who they like to go to bed with.
Please note this is a general observation I'm not trying to speak for annabel."
Yes, it's definitely messy. And I suppose when trying to fit into a binary as presented on Fab, you need to pick something, even if it's inadequate. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I hope this question isn't a problem to ask. So cisgender bothers me - I don't feel I have a gender identity. I recognise that others may do. How does that balance? When I say it bothers me, I don't object to the word or it being used about me or anything like that - it's just...it doesn't add up for me. I know it's the opposite to trans, but there's an implication that I believe in gender for myself. And I believe in it for other people who feel it, but not me.
If you don't believe you have a gender you're probably not cis gender. There's also agender too that you may find you identify more with . "
I think that's more a label others might use for me. I don't feel a need to identify as anything in terms of gender. If that makes sense. As _alice said, perhaps it's just innate for me. |
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"I hope this question isn't a problem to ask. So cisgender bothers me - I don't feel I have a gender identity. I recognise that others may do. How does that balance? When I say it bothers me, I don't object to the word or it being used about me or anything like that - it's just...it doesn't add up for me. I know it's the opposite to trans, but there's an implication that I believe in gender for myself. And I believe in it for other people who feel it, but not me.
If you don't believe you have a gender you're probably not cis gender. There's also agender too that you may find you identify more with .
I think that's more a label others might use for me. I don't feel a need to identify as anything in terms of gender. If that makes sense. As _alice said, perhaps it's just innate for me. "
My feeling is that if you feel you don't need a label, you're probably the majority. I feel like the default, but that's *because* I'm cisgender. My gender identity (I feel on the inside that I'm a woman) matches my external appearance (I was assigned female at birth) and how others treat me. |
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"I hope this question isn't a problem to ask. So cisgender bothers me - I don't feel I have a gender identity. I recognise that others may do. How does that balance? When I say it bothers me, I don't object to the word or it being used about me or anything like that - it's just...it doesn't add up for me. I know it's the opposite to trans, but there's an implication that I believe in gender for myself. And I believe in it for other people who feel it, but not me.
If you don't believe you have a gender you're probably not cis gender. There's also agender too that you may find you identify more with .
I think that's more a label others might use for me. I don't feel a need to identify as anything in terms of gender. If that makes sense. As _alice said, perhaps it's just innate for me. "
Malice said our sense of self is innate for most people. You seem to be describing either a lack of sense of self or a lack of wish to describe your sense of self? |
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"I hope this question isn't a problem to ask. So cisgender bothers me - I don't feel I have a gender identity. I recognise that others may do. How does that balance? When I say it bothers me, I don't object to the word or it being used about me or anything like that - it's just...it doesn't add up for me. I know it's the opposite to trans, but there's an implication that I believe in gender for myself. And I believe in it for other people who feel it, but not me.
If you don't believe you have a gender you're probably not cis gender. There's also agender too that you may find you identify more with .
I think that's more a label others might use for me. I don't feel a need to identify as anything in terms of gender. If that makes sense. As _alice said, perhaps it's just innate for me.
My feeling is that if you feel you don't need a label, you're probably the majority. I feel like the default, but that's *because* I'm cisgender. My gender identity (I feel on the inside that I'm a woman) matches my external appearance (I was assigned female at birth) and how others treat me."
While that can be true, I don't think it always is. Though the opposite end of the scale of complete rejection of labels tends to come with complete anarchy around ideas of gender and sexuality. Not that there's anything wrong with that but it's a uniquely interesting thing to observe. |
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"I hope this question isn't a problem to ask. So cisgender bothers me - I don't feel I have a gender identity. I recognise that others may do. How does that balance? When I say it bothers me, I don't object to the word or it being used about me or anything like that - it's just...it doesn't add up for me. I know it's the opposite to trans, but there's an implication that I believe in gender for myself. And I believe in it for other people who feel it, but not me.
If you don't believe you have a gender you're probably not cis gender. There's also agender too that you may find you identify more with .
I think that's more a label others might use for me. I don't feel a need to identify as anything in terms of gender. If that makes sense. As _alice said, perhaps it's just innate for me.
My feeling is that if you feel you don't need a label, you're probably the majority. I feel like the default, but that's *because* I'm cisgender. My gender identity (I feel on the inside that I'm a woman) matches my external appearance (I was assigned female at birth) and how others treat me.
While that can be true, I don't think it always is. Though the opposite end of the scale of complete rejection of labels tends to come with complete anarchy around ideas of gender and sexuality. Not that there's anything wrong with that but it's a uniquely interesting thing to observe. "
It could be just the idiosyncratic sense I've gained over time - that identification is so important because of the dissonance between identity and treatment. So people who don't feel dissonance, don't contemplate their identity. (see also, I'm not straight, I'm normal. I'm not cis, I'm normal. I've even heard I don't have an accent, I'm normal)
I'm not saying that's what Inconceivable is saying - just that it's potentially so. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Following on from my pronouns thread and the fact it’s pride month I thought I’d just share some information about inclusive language
I think a lot of people get confused so here’s the basics;
AFAB = assigned female at birth
AMAB= assigned male at birth
Cis(gender)= gender aligns with birth sex
Trans(gender)= gender does not align with birth sex
FTM= female to male
MTF= male to female
Non-binary= does not fit on the traditional gender binary and identifies outside of male and female
Enby= phonetic way of saying NB to describe non-binary people
Pronouns= how a person refers to themselves. Often correlates with gender identity but doesn’t always; she/her is typically used for females / women, he/him for men/males, and they/them for nb but not always
I hope that clears some things up! I would hate for people to be ‘left behind’ in this changing world! And hopefully it avoids conflicts!
Also, ask me anything! I know a lot of people are older than me and are unfamiliar with the concepts of pronouns and non-binary people etc. so ask me anything and I’ll try to reply! I enjoy people who wish to be educated about these things! "
Thanks for this, I’m not “old” or I don’t think I am anyway! But these terms are something I’ve never got my head round, but my personal philosophy is to always call someone what they want to be called, whether that’s a name/nickname/pronoun it’s the easiest way of showing respect for someone |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Can't we just be people? My view of you is not based on your gender, biological, perceived or otherwise..
I mean, I get treated very differently when people assume I'm a bloke, so, probably not "
Nice rack |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Can't we just be people? My view of you is not based on your gender, biological, perceived or otherwise.."
Gender identity is important to some people |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Lesbian is so much more than a sexuality. It can be a movement, an ideology, a very deep rooted sense of self and understanding. It doesn't need to correlate to gender identity in a neatly ordered 'dictionary definition' way and for a lot of non-binary people being gay or lesbian is as much about queerness and who they are as it is who they like to go to bed with.
Please note this is a general observation I'm not trying to speak for annabel."
Thank you so much; this is such a wonderful way to describe it. I love being a lesbian; it took me 7 years to accept it and now I’m proud of it |
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"Can't we just be people? My view of you is not based on your gender, biological, perceived or otherwise..
Gender identity is important to some people "
And I want to treat people as they want to be treated. If some people don't want to get into gender, I'll assume gender (to use pronouns) based on their name or physiology.
For everyone else, this is helpful. |
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