FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Pronouns

Pronouns

By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

After just being misgendered; would it not be a good idea for fab to add a section for your pronouns? One that would be displayed next to your name in forums and in chats?

I’d think it’d be a wonderful idea; would prevent misgendering and would make the place more inclusive

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By *yron69Man over a year ago

Fareham

Is there a cream for this?

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Is there a cream for this?"

Huh?

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By *ex BojanglesWoman over a year ago

Newcastle

Your profile states you are a woman, how would you like to be referred to?

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Your profile states you are a woman, how would you like to be referred to? "

My pronouns are they/them; I’m non-binary

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Im not for or against em i dunno what they are

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By *yron69Man over a year ago

Fareham

"Your profile states you are a woman, how would you like to be referred to?

My pronouns are they/them; I’m non-binary "

A number 2?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Put it in brackets after the Town on your profile. Forum users can easily see it on posts.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple over a year ago

North West

"Your profile states you are a woman, how would you like to be referred to? "

Fab doesn't have an option for non binary. It has man, woman, couple and TV/TS. So, the OP would not be able to select their preferred gender identity, unfortunately.

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By *naswingdressWoman over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Put it in brackets after the Town on your profile. Forum users can easily see it on posts.

That's a good idea

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Im not for or against em i dunno what they are"

He/him, she/her, they/them etc

Also: I, we, they, our etc are all pronouns. They are the basics of the English language; I think people get confused when they see he/she/they without the other pronouns in tow

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Your profile states you are a woman, how would you like to be referred to?

My pronouns are they/them; I’m non-binary

A number 2?"

Huh?

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Put it in brackets after the Town on your profile. Forum users can easily see it on posts.

Great idea thank you!!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If they do then it should be optional to complete it.

I fully respect any individual that wants to express their pronouns, similarly I don’t feel it should be enforced on anyone that doesn’t want to get involved.

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By *naswingdressWoman over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

I had my pronouns in a previous version of my profile text. Although I'm cis and my pronouns conform with expectations, it's a great filter for dirtbags who feel the need to cry about it

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By *ervent_fervourMan over a year ago

Halifax

"After just being misgendered; would it not be a good idea for fab to add a section for your pronouns? One that would be displayed next to your name in forums and in chats?

I’d think it’d be a wonderful idea; would prevent misgendering and would make the place more inclusive

I think it'd be a good idea as an option. It might even happen. After all, they eventually got rid of the colour designation(or was it preference?? I forget) . To the unhappiness of some.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I had my pronouns in a previous version of my profile text. Although I'm cis and my pronouns conform with expectations, it's a great filter for dirtbags who feel the need to cry about it

Lol definitely; especially when they feel the need to give their unsolicited opinions on it lmao!

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By *inister_SpinsterWoman over a year ago

North West

"After just being misgendered; would it not be a good idea for fab to add a section for your pronouns? One that would be displayed next to your name in forums and in chats?

I’d think it’d be a wonderful idea; would prevent misgendering and would make the place more inclusive

Yes brilliant idea.

I have my pronouns on my professional profile. Why not on here. Normalise seeing them and using them.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"After just being misgendered; would it not be a good idea for fab to add a section for your pronouns? One that would be displayed next to your name in forums and in chats?

I’d think it’d be a wonderful idea; would prevent misgendering and would make the place more inclusive

This place is full of misogynistic, racist and all the other isms as you feel. You won’t get many takers supporting you here . Lol

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Put it in brackets after the Town on your profile. Forum users can easily see it on posts.

Great idea thank you!!

I pretty much never read profiles so I've probably referred to you as 'she' before, due to the 'Woman' tag next to your pic. Apologies.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Put it in brackets after the Town on your profile. Forum users can easily see it on posts.

Good solution.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Put it in brackets after the Town on your profile. Forum users can easily see it on posts.

Great idea thank you!!

I pretty much never read profiles so I've probably referred to you as 'she' before, due to the 'Woman' tag next to your pic. Apologies. "

No worries! Honestly; most of the time I recognise that it’s a mistake unless I can see someone is doing intentionally (which is quite often unfortunately.) but yeah, there isn’t a non-binary tag so I went with woman as I’m AFAB; hopefully there will be in the future!

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By *aliceWoman over a year ago

Birmingham

100pc agree. Would also like to see them modernise the TS label and add more diverse sexuality and gender identity options.

Every time it gets suggested there's a minority who moan though and there doesnt seem to be any acknowledgement from the powers that be.

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By *yron69Man over a year ago

Fareham

"After just being misgendered; would it not be a good idea for fab to add a section for your pronouns? One that would be displayed next to your name in forums and in chats?

I’d think it’d be a wonderful idea; would prevent misgendering and would make the place more inclusive

This place is full of misogynistic, racist and all the other isms as you feel. You won’t get many takers supporting you here . Lol "

Full of apparent victims too..

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"If they do then it should be optional to complete it.

I fully respect any individual that wants to express their pronouns, similarly I don’t feel it should be enforced on anyone that doesn’t want to get involved. "

Should be a N/A option too.

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman over a year ago

evesham

"After just being misgendered; would it not be a good idea for fab to add a section for your pronouns? One that would be displayed next to your name in forums and in chats?

I’d think it’d be a wonderful idea; would prevent misgendering and would make the place more inclusive

If it's important to you why not include it in your bio or tag line?

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By *emorefridaCouple over a year ago

La la land

To be honest I would have misgendered you. Because I would have seen woman on the forum and wouldn't have looked on your profile.

I therefore agree that this would be useful.

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By *inister_SpinsterWoman over a year ago

North West

"After just being misgendered; would it not be a good idea for fab to add a section for your pronouns? One that would be displayed next to your name in forums and in chats?

I’d think it’d be a wonderful idea; would prevent misgendering and would make the place more inclusive

This place is full of misogynistic, racist and all the other isms as you feel. You won’t get many takers supporting you here . Lol "

Seriously?

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"After just being misgendered; would it not be a good idea for fab to add a section for your pronouns? One that would be displayed next to your name in forums and in chats?

I’d think it’d be a wonderful idea; would prevent misgendering and would make the place more inclusive

If it's important to you why not include it in your bio or tag line?"

It’s in my bio and my tag line and now it’s next to my location so it should be more obvious now

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"To be honest I would have misgendered you. Because I would have seen woman on the forum and wouldn't have looked on your profile.

I therefore agree that this would be useful."

Yeah; unfortunately there isn’t a non-binary option which is frustrating; so I just went with woman as I’m AFAB.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"If they do then it should be optional to complete it.

I fully respect any individual that wants to express their pronouns, similarly I don’t feel it should be enforced on anyone that doesn’t want to get involved.

Should be a N/A option too.

Yes definitely!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I know your pronouns from your bio OP and from reading your posts. But I absolutely support pronouns being clearly stated next to your gender. On the forums I would much rather see pronouns than location underneath a poster’s name because it’s location on forums posts is absolutely pointless information. Most sites/ apps have options for pronouns to be displayed so fab should too imo.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Quite happy for people to use their pronuns if they feel they are being misrepresentat, but please don't force the 98% of people that don't care to care.

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By *naswingdressWoman over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"I know your pronouns from your bio OP and from reading your posts. But I absolutely support pronouns being clearly stated next to your gender. On the forums I would much rather see pronouns than location underneath a poster’s name because it’s location on forums posts is absolutely pointless information. Most sites/ apps have options for pronouns to be displayed so fab should too imo.

In the meantime I'm using the location option

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By *emorefridaCouple over a year ago

La la land

"To be honest I would have misgendered you. Because I would have seen woman on the forum and wouldn't have looked on your profile.

I therefore agree that this would be useful.

Yeah; unfortunately there isn’t a non-binary option which is frustrating; so I just went with woman as I’m AFAB. "

Totally understand why you have woman with the limited choices here. But I also understand why people would make an error too.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Quite happy for people to use their pronuns if they feel they are being misrepresentat, but please don't force the 98% of people that don't care to care.

It would be nice if you cared to care.

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By *emorefridaCouple over a year ago

La la land

In the meantime I'm using the location option

That works

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Quite happy for people to use their pronuns if they feel they are being misrepresentat, but please don't force the 98% of people that don't care to care.

Who’s forcing you lmao

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By *inister_SpinsterWoman over a year ago

North West

"Quite happy for people to use their pronuns if they feel they are being misrepresentat, but please don't force the 98% of people that don't care to care.

98% ? Please can you share the source of that statistic?

Or is it just your ignorance showing?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"To be honest I would have misgendered you. Because I would have seen woman on the forum and wouldn't have looked on your profile.

I therefore agree that this would be useful.

Yeah; unfortunately there isn’t a non-binary option which is frustrating; so I just went with woman as I’m AFAB. "

What is AFAB?

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"To be honest I would have misgendered you. Because I would have seen woman on the forum and wouldn't have looked on your profile.

I therefore agree that this would be useful.

Yeah; unfortunately there isn’t a non-binary option which is frustrating; so I just went with woman as I’m AFAB.

What is AFAB?"

Assigned Female At Birth

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Quite happy for people to use their pronuns if they feel they are being misrepresentat, but please don't force the 98% of people that don't care to care.

It would be nice if you cared to care. "

Why?

Being tolerant and inclusive should extend to people who have a different opinion to yours.

I don't care either. And if I was asked in a professional capacity to state my pronouns I'd point the person in the direction of the nearest Specsavers after telling them I think the whole concept is fucking nonsense.

HOWEVER, I'd use the pronouns that someone asked me to use as I wouldn't go out of my way to make an individual feel uncomfortable.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"To be honest I would have misgendered you. Because I would have seen woman on the forum and wouldn't have looked on your profile.

I therefore agree that this would be useful.

Yeah; unfortunately there isn’t a non-binary option which is frustrating; so I just went with woman as I’m AFAB.

What is AFAB?"

Assigned Female At Birth. Us oldies have to learn a whole new language in these modern enlightened times.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Glad you found a solution OP with stating them next to your profile. Hopefully avoid any confusion in future

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Quite happy for people to use their pronuns if they feel they are being misrepresentat, but please don't force the 98% of people that don't care to care.

It would be nice if you cared to care.

Why?

Being tolerant and inclusive should extend to people who have a different opinion to yours.

HOWEVER, I'd use the pronouns that someone asked me to use as I wouldn't go out of my way to make an individual feel uncomfortable."

Pronouns aren’t nonsense: they are the basics of any language lol. Just in your paragraph, you used pronouns 7 times.

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By *inister_SpinsterWoman over a year ago

North West

"To be honest I would have misgendered you. Because I would have seen woman on the forum and wouldn't have looked on your profile.

I therefore agree that this would be useful.

Yeah; unfortunately there isn’t a non-binary option which is frustrating; so I just went with woman as I’m AFAB.

What is AFAB?

Assigned Female At Birth. Us oldies have to learn a whole new language in these modern enlightened times. "

And I think its brilliant. If it helps people be their authentic selves, I'll learn as much as I can to support and advocate for them.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Quite happy for people to use their pronuns if they feel they are being misrepresentat, but please don't force the 98% of people that don't care to care.

It would be nice if you cared to care.

Why?

Being tolerant and inclusive should extend to people who have a different opinion to yours.

HOWEVER, I'd use the pronouns that someone asked me to use as I wouldn't go out of my way to make an individual feel uncomfortable.

Pronouns aren’t nonsense: they are the basics of any language lol. Just in your paragraph, you used pronouns 7 times. "

I don't think people can change them is what I meant. You're a smart cookie, you knew I meant that.

These threads usually end with me being called a bigot and a terf. So we'll just fast forward to that bit as I can't be fucked arguing about it tonight. I've got toenails to paint.

Awrabest!

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By *tephTV67TV/TS over a year ago

Cheshire

It’s great you’ve taken the suggestion to put the pronouns with the town name. Hopefully they’ll be respected in future correspondence.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Quite happy for people to use their pronuns if they feel they are being misrepresentat, but please don't force the 98% of people that don't care to care.

It would be nice if you cared to care.

Why?

Being tolerant and inclusive should extend to people who have a different opinion to yours.

HOWEVER, I'd use the pronouns that someone asked me to use as I wouldn't go out of my way to make an individual feel uncomfortable.

Pronouns aren’t nonsense: they are the basics of any language lol. Just in your paragraph, you used pronouns 7 times.

I don't think people can change them is what I meant. You're a smart cookie, you knew I meant that.

These threads usually end with me being called a bigot and a terf. So we'll just fast forward to that bit as I can't be fucked arguing about it tonight. I've got toenails to paint.

Awrabest!

I don’t understand what you mean about people not being able to change them? My pronouns changed with my gender identity; when I identified as a woman, they were she/her. Now I identify as non-binary, they are they/them, as they fit me and my identity better

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"To be honest I would have misgendered you. Because I would have seen woman on the forum and wouldn't have looked on your profile.

I therefore agree that this would be useful.

Yeah; unfortunately there isn’t a non-binary option which is frustrating; so I just went with woman as I’m AFAB. "
welcome to my world there isn't a straight option either

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By *ervent_fervourMan over a year ago

Halifax

"Quite happy for people to use their pronuns if they feel they are being misrepresentat, but please don't force the 98% of people that don't care to care.

98% ? Please can you share the source of that statistic?

Or is it just your ignorance showing? "

Ignorance? On Fab?!?

I'd also like to know what they meant by 'forcing'?

They might need to consult a dictionary.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Quite happy for people to use their pronuns if they feel they are being misrepresentat, but please don't force the 98% of people that don't care to care.

It would be nice if you cared to care.

Why?

Being tolerant and inclusive should extend to people who have a different opinion to yours.

HOWEVER, I'd use the pronouns that someone asked me to use as I wouldn't go out of my way to make an individual feel uncomfortable."

People of a certain age really struggle

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"To be honest I would have misgendered you. Because I would have seen woman on the forum and wouldn't have looked on your profile.

I therefore agree that this would be useful.

Yeah; unfortunately there isn’t a non-binary option which is frustrating; so I just went with woman as I’m AFAB. welcome to my world there isn't a straight option either "

I’m not sure what you mean; sorry!

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By *aliceWoman over a year ago

Birmingham

"Quite happy for people to use their pronuns if they feel they are being misrepresentat, but please don't force the 98% of people that don't care to care.

It would be nice if you cared to care.

Why?

Being tolerant and inclusive should extend to people who have a different opinion to yours.

HOWEVER, I'd use the pronouns that someone asked me to use as I wouldn't go out of my way to make an individual feel uncomfortable.

People of a certain age really struggle "

Don't be ageist in an attempt to be inclusive.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple over a year ago

North West

"Quite happy for people to use their pronuns if they feel they are being misrepresentat, but please don't force the 98% of people that don't care to care.

It would be nice if you cared to care.

Why?

Being tolerant and inclusive should extend to people who have a different opinion to yours.

HOWEVER, I'd use the pronouns that someone asked me to use as I wouldn't go out of my way to make an individual feel uncomfortable.

Pronouns aren’t nonsense: they are the basics of any language lol. Just in your paragraph, you used pronouns 7 times. "

Being pedantic, not all languages have personal pronouns. Chinese, Finnish and Estonian are examples. Our Chinese students get very confused with he/she etc, actually.

Taking my pedant hat off, although I personally don't feel the need to state my pronouns, I very much support those who wish to and always use what a person requests are their pronouns.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Quite happy for people to use their pronuns if they feel they are being misrepresentat, but please don't force the 98% of people that don't care to care.

It would be nice if you cared to care.

Why?

Being tolerant and inclusive should extend to people who have a different opinion to yours.

HOWEVER, I'd use the pronouns that someone asked me to use as I wouldn't go out of my way to make an individual feel uncomfortable.

Pronouns aren’t nonsense: they are the basics of any language lol. Just in your paragraph, you used pronouns 7 times.

Being pedantic, not all languages have personal pronouns. Chinese, Finnish and Estonian are examples. Our Chinese students get very confused with he/she etc, actually.

Taking my pedant hat off, although I personally don't feel the need to state my pronouns, I very much support those who wish to and always use what a person requests are their pronouns. "

Wow; I truly didn’t realise that! I’m so used to learning languages like latin, French and German etc that I just assumed all languages had pronouns! That’s actually a really interesting fact to know.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Quite happy for people to use their pronuns if they feel they are being misrepresentat, but please don't force the 98% of people that don't care to care.

It would be nice if you cared to care.

Why?

Being tolerant and inclusive should extend to people who have a different opinion to yours.

HOWEVER, I'd use the pronouns that someone asked me to use as I wouldn't go out of my way to make an individual feel uncomfortable.

People of a certain age really struggle "

I don't struggle at all mate. Just don't see the point in deliberately using a word if someone has expressly asked me not to use it in relation to them. I just ask that the same respect is reciprocated and I am not called names if I ask not to be referred to as CIS or AFAB for example.

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By *inkywife1981Couple over a year ago

A town near you

I weighed myself in the chemist today and the machine asked me to select my gender (male/female) and age before calculating my bmi etc and giving me what my approx weight/fat ratio should be based on my age and sex.

I imagine there is a reason the machine asked me these 2 questions

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If people identify as non-binary, why show the anatomy of the perceived physical anatomy so prominently in pictures? I am a but confused by it.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I weighed myself in the chemist today and the machine asked me to select my gender (male/female) and age before calculating my bmi etc and giving me what my approx weight/fat ratio should be based on my age and sex.

I imagine there is a reason the machine asked me these 2 questions"

Female bodies carry weight differently to males; males also have more muscle mass. Body shape also plays a part in it as well as hormones etc; age is asked because as you get older you store more fat and less muscle

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By *adyJayneWoman over a year ago

Burnleyish (She/They)

Love the location idea. I'm all for it. (and have changed mine already).

For anyone who has never struggled with their gender identity, it's a useful reminder to avoid making assumptions and to address people in a way that makes them feel seen, respected and most importantly doesn't misgender them (which is emotionally a horrible rollercoaster). It may also make it easier for other trans and nonbinary people to live their truths.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I imagine there is a reason the machine asked me these 2 questions"

The patriarchy?

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By *RANDMRSJAECouple over a year ago

chester

"Quite happy for people to use their pronuns if they feel they are being misrepresentat, but please don't force the 98% of people that don't care to care.

It would be nice if you cared to care.

Why?

Being tolerant and inclusive should extend to people who have a different opinion to yours.

HOWEVER, I'd use the pronouns that someone asked me to use as I wouldn't go out of my way to make an individual feel uncomfortable.

Pronouns aren’t nonsense: they are the basics of any language lol. Just in your paragraph, you used pronouns 7 times. "

It’s new to a lot of people in this context though. I’ve never heard of the term ‘using your pronouns’. Id make an effort to do and say the right thing though if it was important to that person.

I’m fascinated by it all but I don’t know a single person affected by it so haven’t felt the need to educate myself.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"If people identify as non-binary, why show the anatomy of the perceived physical anatomy so prominently in pictures? I am a but confused by it."

I assume you mean my boobs? I don’t mind my boobs lol; it’s the only part of my body I don’t have a *big* problem with.

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By *RANDMRSJAECouple over a year ago

chester

"If people identify as non-binary, why show the anatomy of the perceived physical anatomy so prominently in pictures? I am a but confused by it."

You just asked the question I wanted the answer to the most !!

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By *adyJayneWoman over a year ago

Burnleyish (She/They)

"If people identify as non-binary, why show the anatomy of the perceived physical anatomy so prominently in pictures? I am a but confused by it.

I assume you mean my boobs? I don’t mind my boobs lol; it’s the only part of my body I don’t have a *big* problem with. "

Haha ditto... I'm more perturbed by my lack of penis.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"To be honest I would have misgendered you. Because I would have seen woman on the forum and wouldn't have looked on your profile.

I therefore agree that this would be useful.

Yeah; unfortunately there isn’t a non-binary option which is frustrating; so I just went with woman as I’m AFAB.

What is AFAB?

Assigned Female At Birth "

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I'd be happy for this to be introduced - I respect other people's pronouns.

I don't use them myself as I don't have a gender identity but as with other platforms, I'd assume they'd be non-compulsory.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"To be honest I would have misgendered you. Because I would have seen woman on the forum and wouldn't have looked on your profile.

I therefore agree that this would be useful.

Yeah; unfortunately there isn’t a non-binary option which is frustrating; so I just went with woman as I’m AFAB.

What is AFAB?

Assigned Female At Birth. Us oldies have to learn a whole new language in these modern enlightened times. "

I'll probably forget again.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Quite happy for people to use their pronuns if they feel they are being misrepresentat, but please don't force the 98% of people that don't care to care.

It would be nice if you cared to care.

Why?

Being tolerant and inclusive should extend to people who have a different opinion to yours.

HOWEVER, I'd use the pronouns that someone asked me to use as I wouldn't go out of my way to make an individual feel uncomfortable.

People of a certain age really struggle "

I'm in my fifties. My parents are in their seventies and we all do fine with pronouns. I thought it was awkward to start with but quite easy after a few weeks.

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By *naswingdressWoman over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Quite happy for people to use their pronuns if they feel they are being misrepresentat, but please don't force the 98% of people that don't care to care.

It would be nice if you cared to care.

Why?

Being tolerant and inclusive should extend to people who have a different opinion to yours.

HOWEVER, I'd use the pronouns that someone asked me to use as I wouldn't go out of my way to make an individual feel uncomfortable.

People of a certain age really struggle

I'm in my fifties. My parents are in their seventies and we all do fine with pronouns. I thought it was awkward to start with but quite easy after a few weeks. "

I know people in their nineties who do fine. Tell them what you want to be called and all good

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By *atnip make me purrWoman over a year ago

Reading

"Put it in brackets after the Town on your profile. Forum users can easily see it on posts.

An elegant solution.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"If people identify as non-binary, why show the anatomy of the perceived physical anatomy so prominently in pictures? I am a but confused by it.

I assume you mean my boobs? I don’t mind my boobs lol; it’s the only part of my body I don’t have a *big* problem with.

Haha ditto... I'm more perturbed by my lack of penis. "

Consider it a positive in one sense as they are vulnerable and can get squashed in various situations plus sweaty balls in summer

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I’d read your profile previously and would have still misgendered you. Have you reworded it recently?

If not this is a good example of someone (me) who isn’t educated on this subject making silly assumptions.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I think this is a good idea... Its something that people do at work too

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I’d read your profile previously and would have still misgendered you. Have you reworded it recently?

If not this is a good example of someone (me) who isn’t educated on this subject making silly assumptions."

I’ve changed it around but my pronouns have always been there; maybe they weren’t as obvious before?

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By *ea monkeyMan over a year ago

Manchester (he/him)

I think that this is a great idea.

It’s so easy to misgender a person and it can be really hurtful.

For those oldies (too old to care)/ignorant folks. If you’re a guy, imagine that people keep calling you madam or miss, every day.

It’s just about respecting a persons choices

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By *iscean_dreamMan over a year ago

Llanelli

"I think that this is a great idea.

It’s so easy to misgender a person and it can be really hurtful.

For those oldies (too old to care)/ignorant folks. If you’re a guy, imagine that people keep calling you madam or miss, every day.

It’s just about respecting a persons choices"

With facial hair and a deep voice it would be a really easy mistake to make

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I think that this is a great idea.

It’s so easy to misgender a person and it can be really hurtful.

For those oldies (too old to care)/ignorant folks. If you’re a guy, imagine that people keep calling you madam or miss, every day.

It’s just about respecting a persons choices

With facial hair and a deep voice it would be a really easy mistake to make

I know you’re joking and being sarcastic lol; but gender expression doesn’t always equal pronouns. A person with a deep voice and facial hair may identify with she/her pronouns

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"If people identify as non-binary, why show the anatomy of the perceived physical anatomy so prominently in pictures? I am a but confused by it.

I assume you mean my boobs? I don’t mind my boobs lol; it’s the only part of my body I don’t have a *big* problem with.

Haha ditto... I'm more perturbed by my lack of penis. "

Can I just ask how being a she and a they works? Do you switch depending on context? I find that a real struggle to get my head round.

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By *ea monkeyMan over a year ago

Manchester (he/him)

"I think that this is a great idea.

It’s so easy to misgender a person and it can be really hurtful.

For those oldies (too old to care)/ignorant folks. If you’re a guy, imagine that people keep calling you madam or miss, every day.

It’s just about respecting a persons choices

With facial hair and a deep voice it would be a really easy mistake to make

I know you’re joking and being sarcastic lol; but gender expression doesn’t always equal pronouns. A person with a deep voice and facial hair may identify with she/her pronouns

Exactly this.

You’re also completely missing the point of the example, it’s about how that situation would feel to you, that’s what misgendering feels like

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By *iscean_dreamMan over a year ago

Llanelli

"I think that this is a great idea.

It’s so easy to misgender a person and it can be really hurtful.

For those oldies (too old to care)/ignorant folks. If you’re a guy, imagine that people keep calling you madam or miss, every day.

It’s just about respecting a persons choices

With facial hair and a deep voice it would be a really easy mistake to make

I know you’re joking and being sarcastic lol; but gender expression doesn’t always equal pronouns. A person with a deep voice and facial hair may identify with she/her pronouns

This is true, maybe it would be helpful if people that could be mistaken were to wear a colour band so it didn't happen and save awkward moments

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By *aliceWoman over a year ago

Birmingham

"If people identify as non-binary, why show the anatomy of the perceived physical anatomy so prominently in pictures? I am a but confused by it.

I assume you mean my boobs? I don’t mind my boobs lol; it’s the only part of my body I don’t have a *big* problem with.

Haha ditto... I'm more perturbed by my lack of penis.

Can I just ask how being a she and a they works? Do you switch depending on context? I find that a real struggle to get my head round. "

Usually someone who goes by she/they pronouns would be happy with you using either, so it's interchangeable.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I think that this is a great idea.

It’s so easy to misgender a person and it can be really hurtful.

For those oldies (too old to care)/ignorant folks. If you’re a guy, imagine that people keep calling you madam or miss, every day.

It’s just about respecting a persons choices

With facial hair and a deep voice it would be a really easy mistake to make

I know you’re joking and being sarcastic lol; but gender expression doesn’t always equal pronouns. A person with a deep voice and facial hair may identify with she/her pronouns

This is true, maybe it would be helpful if people that could be mistaken were to wear a colour band so it didn't happen and save awkward moments "

I think pronoun badges are becoming more mainstream which is great; I wear mine in situations where pronouns would be needed etc! Makes life easier for me and others

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By *iscean_dreamMan over a year ago

Llanelli

"I think that this is a great idea.

It’s so easy to misgender a person and it can be really hurtful.

For those oldies (too old to care)/ignorant folks. If you’re a guy, imagine that people keep calling you madam or miss, every day.

It’s just about respecting a persons choices

With facial hair and a deep voice it would be a really easy mistake to make

I know you’re joking and being sarcastic lol; but gender expression doesn’t always equal pronouns. A person with a deep voice and facial hair may identify with she/her pronouns

Exactly this.

You’re also completely missing the point of the example, it’s about how that situation would feel to you, that’s what misgendering feels like"

If someone called me madam or miss I'd laugh and say only on a Sunday between the hours of 3pm and midnight.

I think if your identity is different from how you look and you would get offended by someone saying something then you should make it known before it happens.

If I thought of myself as female looking how I do I wouldn't be offended by someone calling me a man because I wouldn't expect them to know going by my looks alone.

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By *iscean_dreamMan over a year ago

Llanelli

"I think that this is a great idea.

It’s so easy to misgender a person and it can be really hurtful.

For those oldies (too old to care)/ignorant folks. If you’re a guy, imagine that people keep calling you madam or miss, every day.

It’s just about respecting a persons choices

With facial hair and a deep voice it would be a really easy mistake to make

I know you’re joking and being sarcastic lol; but gender expression doesn’t always equal pronouns. A person with a deep voice and facial hair may identify with she/her pronouns

This is true, maybe it would be helpful if people that could be mistaken were to wear a colour band so it didn't happen and save awkward moments

I think pronoun badges are becoming more mainstream which is great; I wear mine in situations where pronouns would be needed etc! Makes life easier for me and others

I've never seen anyone wear them to be honest but they're a good idea

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"If people identify as non-binary, why show the anatomy of the perceived physical anatomy so prominently in pictures? I am a but confused by it.

I assume you mean my boobs? I don’t mind my boobs lol; it’s the only part of my body I don’t have a *big* problem with.

Haha ditto... I'm more perturbed by my lack of penis.

Can I just ask how being a she and a they works? Do you switch depending on context? I find that a real struggle to get my head round.

Usually someone who goes by she/they pronouns would be happy with you using either, so it's interchangeable. "

So what's the point in stating it then? I don't get it. If they are happy to be referred to as she and look like a she, why bother with they? I'm not being awkward just trying to understand why you would feel the need?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

In the meantime I'm using the location option

You’re the best

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By *aliceWoman over a year ago

Birmingham

"If people identify as non-binary, why show the anatomy of the perceived physical anatomy so prominently in pictures? I am a but confused by it.

I assume you mean my boobs? I don’t mind my boobs lol; it’s the only part of my body I don’t have a *big* problem with.

Haha ditto... I'm more perturbed by my lack of penis.

Can I just ask how being a she and a they works? Do you switch depending on context? I find that a real struggle to get my head round.

Usually someone who goes by she/they pronouns would be happy with you using either, so it's interchangeable.

Because the 'they' part is important to them so they would appreciate it if you used that pronoun occasionally. That might be because they are enby/genderfluid who often present femme but likes they to be used sometimes because they find it validating, or they may be a transwomen who prefers she/they to to she/her etc.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"If people identify as non-binary, why show the anatomy of the perceived physical anatomy so prominently in pictures? I am a but confused by it.

I assume you mean my boobs? I don’t mind my boobs lol; it’s the only part of my body I don’t have a *big* problem with.

Haha ditto... I'm more perturbed by my lack of penis.

Can I just ask how being a she and a they works? Do you switch depending on context? I find that a real struggle to get my head round.

Usually someone who goes by she/they pronouns would be happy with you using either, so it's interchangeable.

Ah OK. Thanks. I never thought of it that way.

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By *S chanel demarTV/TS over a year ago

peterborough

98%...lol...forced lol

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By *S chanel demarTV/TS over a year ago

peterborough

The most sensible comment, as for many on here, not a clue....

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By *S chanel demarTV/TS over a year ago

peterborough

Brilliant....however many in this post are proving what they are...

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By *adCherriesCouple over a year ago

Cheshire/Northwest

"Quite happy for people to use their pronuns if they feel they are being misrepresentat, but please don't force the 98% of people that don't care to care.

It would be nice if you cared to care.

Why?

Being tolerant and inclusive should extend to people who have a different opinion to yours.

HOWEVER, I'd use the pronouns that someone asked me to use as I wouldn't go out of my way to make an individual feel uncomfortable.

Pronouns aren’t nonsense: they are the basics of any language lol. Just in your paragraph, you used pronouns 7 times.

I don't think people can change them is what I meant. You're a smart cookie, you knew I meant that.

These threads usually end with me being called a bigot and a terf. So we'll just fast forward to that bit as I can't be fucked arguing about it tonight. I've got toenails to paint.

Awrabest!

They/ them always sounds like schizophrenia as in more then one. I'm surprised a new word hasn't been invented.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"If people identify as non-binary, why show the anatomy of the perceived physical anatomy so prominently in pictures? I am a but confused by it.

I assume you mean my boobs? I don’t mind my boobs lol; it’s the only part of my body I don’t have a *big* problem with.

Haha ditto... I'm more perturbed by my lack of penis.

Can I just ask how being a she and a they works? Do you switch depending on context? I find that a real struggle to get my head round.

Usually someone who goes by she/they pronouns would be happy with you using either, so it's interchangeable.

What is enby?

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"If people identify as non-binary, why show the anatomy of the perceived physical anatomy so prominently in pictures? I am a but confused by it.

I assume you mean my boobs? I don’t mind my boobs lol; it’s the only part of my body I don’t have a *big* problem with.

Haha ditto... I'm more perturbed by my lack of penis.

Can I just ask how being a she and a they works? Do you switch depending on context? I find that a real struggle to get my head round.

Usually someone who goes by she/they pronouns would be happy with you using either, so it's interchangeable.

What is enby? "

Phonetic pronunciation of NB- shortened version of non-binary

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The most sensible comment, as for many on here, not a clue...."

If you use the Reply + quote button we will know which sensible person you are replying to.

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By *annaBeStrongMan over a year ago

wokingham

I’d like to be referred to has his highness

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Great thread OP. How you describe how you feel about your gender identity really resonates.

What are your thoughts on gender being a binary concept? I have come to reject the very limited and specific traditional gender roles in favour of gender being a spectrum. I used to feel I was androgynous, with a female body and a male brain (probably due to neurological differences that come with being autistic). I now feel that there are a multitude of ways of being a woman or a man, the only thing being truly binary is our biological sex (with very rare exceptions). As a result, for people who feel they're in the wrong body I feel that transsexual might be a more accurate term than transgender. I'm just musing based on my own experiences of not fitting in with other women...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"If people identify as non-binary, why show the anatomy of the perceived physical anatomy so prominently in pictures? I am a but confused by it.

I assume you mean my boobs? I don’t mind my boobs lol; it’s the only part of my body I don’t have a *big* problem with.

Haha ditto... I'm more perturbed by my lack of penis.

Can I just ask how being a she and a they works? Do you switch depending on context? I find that a real struggle to get my head round.

Usually someone who goes by she/they pronouns would be happy with you using either, so it's interchangeable.

What is enby?

Phonetic pronunciation of NB- shortened version of non-binary "

Thank you.

I know I can Google but if I ask dumb questions on a thread, other people might learn too.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Great thread OP. How you describe how you feel about your gender identity really resonates.

In my personal opinion, I definitely think there is a difference between the gender binary and the roles of each. To me, my gender is just how I am; I don’t have any specific qualities that can be contributed to each gender e.g, I have ‘male’ hobbies and ‘female’ hobbies and yet I still felt like I didn’t fit in with each; I felt so lost in the presence of women and lost in the presence of men. I’d look in the mirror and not have any true identity. The gender binary also comprises of gender expression, how we feel and see ourselves, how we want others to see us etc. i want people to not see me as a woman or a man; I want them to see me as non-binary. I don’t want to be seen as being on the gender binary; the whole idea of it makes me uncomfortable and upset. My gender dysphoria has a lot to do with it; but I feel happier than ever identifying as NB.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"If people identify as non-binary, why show the anatomy of the perceived physical anatomy so prominently in pictures? I am a but confused by it.

I assume you mean my boobs? I don’t mind my boobs lol; it’s the only part of my body I don’t have a *big* problem with.

Haha ditto... I'm more perturbed by my lack of penis.

Can I just ask how being a she and a they works? Do you switch depending on context? I find that a real struggle to get my head round.

Usually someone who goes by she/they pronouns would be happy with you using either, so it's interchangeable.

What is enby?

Phonetic pronunciation of NB- shortened version of non-binary

Thank you.

I know I can Google but if I ask dumb questions on a thread, other people might learn too.

If you need anymore help; I made a thread on inclusive language! That might be some help?

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By *aliceWoman over a year ago

Birmingham

"Great thread OP. How you describe how you feel about your gender identity really resonates.

Transexual has been phased out by lgbt organisations as it supports a narrative some people have that trangenderism is sexually motivated.

Gender is a socially constructed idea of the expression and behavioural characteristics of each sex, but gender identity is increasingly being proven to be biological.

You're absolutely right that there are limitless ways to be a man or a woman, but that's equally as true of people who's gender identity corresponds to their biological sex.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Great thread OP. How you describe how you feel about your gender identity really resonates.

Transexual has been phased out by lgbt organisations as it supports a narrative some people have that trangenderism is sexually motivated.

Gender is a socially constructed idea of the expression and behavioural characteristics of each sex, but gender identity is increasingly being proven to be biological.

You're absolutely right that there are limitless ways to be a man or a woman, but that's equally as true of people who's gender identity corresponds to their biological sex."

Thank you, that's really good to know. I hadn't realised the reasons for transexual as a term being phased out.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Great thread OP. How you describe how you feel about your gender identity really resonates.

Thank you, that's a really compressible explanation. I hope that doesn't sound patronising! I appreciate you taking the time to reply.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Brilliant....however many in this post are proving what they are..."

....having a different opinion to yours. That's all.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple over a year ago

North West

"If people identify as non-binary, why show the anatomy of the perceived physical anatomy so prominently in pictures? I am a but confused by it.

I assume you mean my boobs? I don’t mind my boobs lol; it’s the only part of my body I don’t have a *big* problem with.

Haha ditto... I'm more perturbed by my lack of penis.

Can I just ask how being a she and a they works? Do you switch depending on context? I find that a real struggle to get my head round.

Usually someone who goes by she/they pronouns would be happy with you using either, so it's interchangeable.

What is enby?

Phonetic pronunciation of NB- shortened version of non-binary

Thank you.

I know I can Google but if I ask dumb questions on a thread, other people might learn too.

It's not a dumb question, Outsider

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"If people identify as non-binary, why show the anatomy of the perceived physical anatomy so prominently in pictures? I am a but confused by it.

I assume you mean my boobs? I don’t mind my boobs lol; it’s the only part of my body I don’t have a *big* problem with.

Haha ditto... I'm more perturbed by my lack of penis.

Can I just ask how being a she and a they works? Do you switch depending on context? I find that a real struggle to get my head round.

Usually someone who goes by she/they pronouns would be happy with you using either, so it's interchangeable.

What is enby?

Phonetic pronunciation of NB- shortened version of non-binary

Thank you.

I know I can Google but if I ask dumb questions on a thread, other people might learn too.

It's not a dumb question, Outsider

Yep sorry, I didn't mean the subject is dumb.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple over a year ago

North West

"If people identify as non-binary, why show the anatomy of the perceived physical anatomy so prominently in pictures? I am a but confused by it.

I assume you mean my boobs? I don’t mind my boobs lol; it’s the only part of my body I don’t have a *big* problem with.

Haha ditto... I'm more perturbed by my lack of penis.

Can I just ask how being a she and a they works? Do you switch depending on context? I find that a real struggle to get my head round.

Usually someone who goes by she/they pronouns would be happy with you using either, so it's interchangeable.

What is enby?

Phonetic pronunciation of NB- shortened version of non-binary

Thank you.

I know I can Google but if I ask dumb questions on a thread, other people might learn too.

It's not a dumb question, Outsider

Yep sorry, I didn't mean the subject is dumb.

No, no. I meant "your question was perfectly valid". I say it to students all the time "if you have a question, however trivial you think it is, ask me, because almost certainly, someone else in the group will also have the same question but lack the confidence to ask."

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"If people identify as non-binary, why show the anatomy of the perceived physical anatomy so prominently in pictures? I am a but confused by it.

I assume you mean my boobs? I don’t mind my boobs lol; it’s the only part of my body I don’t have a *big* problem with.

Haha ditto... I'm more perturbed by my lack of penis.

Can I just ask how being a she and a they works? Do you switch depending on context? I find that a real struggle to get my head round.

Usually someone who goes by she/they pronouns would be happy with you using either, so it's interchangeable.

What is enby?

Phonetic pronunciation of NB- shortened version of non-binary

Thank you.

I know I can Google but if I ask dumb questions on a thread, other people might learn too.

It's not a dumb question, Outsider

Yep sorry, I didn't mean the subject is dumb.

Oh righty.

I do this in real life (off Fab) all the time. People think I'm thick as shit at work... 86% of the time I am and 24% I'm not so bad.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

When would I use a pronoun to address somebody? And if I got it wrong is it such a crime?

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By *tagandvixen200Couple over a year ago

Edinburgh

Woman = she / her / hers

Man = he’s / he / his

Other = whatever you fancy…

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By *inky_couple2020Couple over a year ago

North West

"When would I use a pronoun to address somebody? And if I got it wrong is it such a crime?"

You use pronouns all the time. I, he, she, we, they. Some are gender specific, some are not.

Getting it wrong might cause offence to the person. Accidental inaccuracy is one thing, but deliberately misgendering is quite another thing.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Woman = she / her / hers

Man = he’s / he / his

Other = whatever you fancy…

You already messaged me this and I already ignored it

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"When would I use a pronoun to address somebody? And if I got it wrong is it such a crime?"

You use them in conversation when talking about someone E.g. she is over there; they are coming at 12; he has 2 dogs.

If you get it wrong, just apologise, correct yourself and move on. No need to make a big scene

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"When would I use a pronoun to address somebody? And if I got it wrong is it such a crime?

You use them in conversation when talking about someone E.g. she is over there; they are coming at 12; he has 2 dogs.

If you get it wrong, just apologise, correct yourself and move on. No need to make a big scene "

But isn't that talking about someone and not to someone? I would use your name if I knew you

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By *agneto.Man over a year ago

Bham

If it cuts down on all the acronyms then perhaps. Probably won't though.

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By *tagandvixen200Couple over a year ago

Edinburgh

Aww, did I say something incorrect??

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Aww, did I say something incorrect?? "

You can say whatever you want; doesn’t mean I have to acknowledge it

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"When would I use a pronoun to address somebody? And if I got it wrong is it such a crime?

You use them in conversation when talking about someone E.g. she is over there; they are coming at 12; he has 2 dogs.

If you get it wrong, just apologise, correct yourself and move on. No need to make a big scene

But isn't that talking about someone and not to someone? I would use your name if I knew you"

Yes…but that’s the whole point. If you are talking about someone, especially in front of them, you should use their proper pronouns. An example would be: ‘Annabel hasn’t done this today. Can you ask them to do it?’ Or ‘Lisa isn’t in. Can you call her?’ As opposed to saying ‘Annabel hasn’t done this today. Can you ask Annabel to do it.’ Pronouns are the basics of the English language

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By *icolerobbieCouple over a year ago

walsall

"When would I use a pronoun to address somebody? And if I got it wrong is it such a crime?

You use them in conversation when talking about someone E.g. she is over there; they are coming at 12; he has 2 dogs.

If you get it wrong, just apologise, correct yourself and move on. No need to make a big scene

But isn't that talking about someone and not to someone? I would use your name if I knew you

By using them, when clearly talking about one person doesn’t sound correct?

Or have I misunderstood?

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By *tagandvixen200Couple over a year ago

Edinburgh

This happens … never.

It’s hyperbole - speaking about someone in front of them is not normal behaviour, and is - of course - considered rude and inconsiderate.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"If they do then it should be optional to complete it.

I fully respect any individual that wants to express their pronouns, similarly I don’t feel it should be enforced on anyone that doesn’t want to get involved. "

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By *inky_couple2020Couple over a year ago

North West

"When would I use a pronoun to address somebody? And if I got it wrong is it such a crime?

You use them in conversation when talking about someone E.g. she is over there; they are coming at 12; he has 2 dogs.

If you get it wrong, just apologise, correct yourself and move on. No need to make a big scene

But isn't that talking about someone and not to someone? I would use your name if I knew you

By using them, when clearly talking about one person doesn’t sound correct?

Or have I misunderstood?"

It's because we're conditioned to use that word in a given way. It's possible to reframe the use of they/them etc. It doesn't seem unusual to us anymore (we work in education and so come into contact with people of all sorts of identities).

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By *tagandvixen200Couple over a year ago

Edinburgh

In line with the English language??

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By *aliceWoman over a year ago

Birmingham

"This happens … never.

It’s hyperbole - speaking about someone in front of them is not normal behaviour, and is - of course - considered rude and inconsiderate. "

It happens all the time.

Person A: 'I can't hear this can you turn it up please

Person b: *grins and turns the sound down*

Person C: 'ignore her she thinks she's hilarious"

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By *inky_couple2020Couple over a year ago

North West

"In line with the English language??"

Language changes and evolves over time. The word "gay" would only ever have been used by my Grandparents to mean happy or joyful, e.g. "have a gay day", but nowadays pretty much no-one uses it in that context and it's mainly used to refer to homosexual people.

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By *icolerobbieCouple over a year ago

walsall

"When would I use a pronoun to address somebody? And if I got it wrong is it such a crime?

You use them in conversation when talking about someone E.g. she is over there; they are coming at 12; he has 2 dogs.

If you get it wrong, just apologise, correct yourself and move on. No need to make a big scene

But isn't that talking about someone and not to someone? I would use your name if I knew you

By using them, when clearly talking about one person doesn’t sound correct?

Or have I misunderstood?

But they / them are plural. You wouldn’t use a plural to describe a singular?

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By *inky_couple2020Couple over a year ago

North West

"When would I use a pronoun to address somebody? And if I got it wrong is it such a crime?

You use them in conversation when talking about someone E.g. she is over there; they are coming at 12; he has 2 dogs.

If you get it wrong, just apologise, correct yourself and move on. No need to make a big scene

But isn't that talking about someone and not to someone? I would use your name if I knew you

By using them, when clearly talking about one person doesn’t sound correct?

Or have I misunderstood?

But they / them are plural. You wouldn’t use a plural to describe a singular?"

Those are the only non-gendered pronouns in the English language, apart from I/we. I'd suggest that per my comment above, we need to be open to the evolution of language and words acquiring new or varied meaning.

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By *icolerobbieCouple over a year ago

walsall

"When would I use a pronoun to address somebody? And if I got it wrong is it such a crime?

You use them in conversation when talking about someone E.g. she is over there; they are coming at 12; he has 2 dogs.

If you get it wrong, just apologise, correct yourself and move on. No need to make a big scene

But isn't that talking about someone and not to someone? I would use your name if I knew you

By using them, when clearly talking about one person doesn’t sound correct?

Or have I misunderstood?

But they / them are plural. You wouldn’t use a plural to describe a singular?

So after the meaning of they or them has evolved, how would you differentiate between a group of people or a person on their own. To use they for singular makes no sense at all.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple over a year ago

North West

[Removed by poster at 19/06/22 00:59:01]

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By *inky_couple2020Couple over a year ago

North West

"When would I use a pronoun to address somebody? And if I got it wrong is it such a crime?

You use them in conversation when talking about someone E.g. she is over there; they are coming at 12; he has 2 dogs.

If you get it wrong, just apologise, correct yourself and move on. No need to make a big scene

But isn't that talking about someone and not to someone? I would use your name if I knew you

By using them, when clearly talking about one person doesn’t sound correct?

Or have I misunderstood?

But they / them are plural. You wouldn’t use a plural to describe a singular?

So after the meaning of they or them has evolved, how would you differentiate between a group of people or a person on their own. To use they for singular makes no sense at all. "

What non-gendered alternative do you suggest to he/she?

Plenty of words have multiple meanings. Plenty of words can be both plural and singular (sheep, for example). It's about context and how the words are put into a sentence.

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By *icolerobbieCouple over a year ago

walsall

"When would I use a pronoun to address somebody? And if I got it wrong is it such a crime?

You use them in conversation when talking about someone E.g. she is over there; they are coming at 12; he has 2 dogs.

If you get it wrong, just apologise, correct yourself and move on. No need to make a big scene

But isn't that talking about someone and not to someone? I would use your name if I knew you

By using them, when clearly talking about one person doesn’t sound correct?

Or have I misunderstood?

But they / them are plural. You wouldn’t use a plural to describe a singular?

So after the meaning of they or them has evolved, how would you differentiate between a group of people or a person on their own. To use they for singular makes no sense at all.

What non-gendered alternative do you suggest to he/she?

Plenty of words have multiple meanings. Plenty of words can be bothering plural and singular (sheep, for example). It's about context and how the words are put into a sentence. "

There are other non gendered pronouns, but I wouldn’t use them to refer to people. It/ that is an example. I wasn’t proposing people use anything other than grammar that makes sense.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The expression of they/them denotes lack of individuality. The term "person" can be used both positively and negatively to not acknowledge a specific sex as well.

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By *atnip make me purrWoman over a year ago

Reading

This really isn't hard. If you know someone's preferred pronouns, use them.

It doesn't have to make sense to you.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple over a year ago

North West

"When would I use a pronoun to address somebody? And if I got it wrong is it such a crime?

You use them in conversation when talking about someone E.g. she is over there; they are coming at 12; he has 2 dogs.

If you get it wrong, just apologise, correct yourself and move on. No need to make a big scene

But isn't that talking about someone and not to someone? I would use your name if I knew you

By using them, when clearly talking about one person doesn’t sound correct?

Or have I misunderstood?

But they / them are plural. You wouldn’t use a plural to describe a singular?

So after the meaning of they or them has evolved, how would you differentiate between a group of people or a person on their own. To use they for singular makes no sense at all.

What non-gendered alternative do you suggest to he/she?

Plenty of words have multiple meanings. Plenty of words can be bothering plural and singular (sheep, for example). It's about context and how the words are put into a sentence.

There are other non gendered pronouns, but I wouldn’t use them to refer to people. It/ that is an example. I wasn’t proposing people use anything other than grammar that makes sense.

Modern grammar would make no sense to an English speaker of yore. Like I said, language changes. The way we use it changes and words do not need to have only one, rigid application. The very word "application" or "app", for short, has probably only been in use to refer to bits of software on digital devices for tens of years. An application might also mean a job application. Or the application of suncream. Application comes from Latin but I'm pretty sure the Romans did not use it to refer to a bit of software on a digital device.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Aww, did I say something incorrect??

You can say whatever you want; doesn’t mean I have to acknowledge it"

Much like you wanting people to see you as you see yourself. (You mentioned this in an earlier post). None of us get to expect this in the real world. Your perception of you and my perception of me are completely different from those perceived by other people. You don't get to determine what goes on inside other people's heads.

The best you can hope is that most people are polite enough to address you using your preferred pronouns. Which I believe most will as the vast majority of people aren't dicks. Doesn't mean they accept the concept of non-binary though.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"This really isn't hard. If you know someone's preferred pronouns, use them.

It doesn't have to make sense to you."

I agree with this.

My issue was with an earlier point that I had to "care". I couldn't give a fuck beyond wanting an easier life in my day to day interactions without some prick turning up with a pitchfork and calling me a bigot.

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By *icolerobbieCouple over a year ago

walsall

"When would I use a pronoun to address somebody? And if I got it wrong is it such a crime?

You use them in conversation when talking about someone E.g. she is over there; they are coming at 12; he has 2 dogs.

If you get it wrong, just apologise, correct yourself and move on. No need to make a big scene

But isn't that talking about someone and not to someone? I would use your name if I knew you

By using them, when clearly talking about one person doesn’t sound correct?

Or have I misunderstood?

But they / them are plural. You wouldn’t use a plural to describe a singular?

So after the meaning of they or them has evolved, how would you differentiate between a group of people or a person on their own. To use they for singular makes no sense at all.

What non-gendered alternative do you suggest to he/she?

Plenty of words have multiple meanings. Plenty of words can be bothering plural and singular (sheep, for example). It's about context and how the words are put into a sentence.

There are other non gendered pronouns, but I wouldn’t use them to refer to people. It/ that is an example. I wasn’t proposing people use anything other than grammar that makes sense.

I have just read an interesting piece about the use of “ze” instead. Someone has in fact invented a new word for this very meaning.

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By *tagandvixen200Couple over a year ago

Edinburgh

Use pronouns in line with the English language / dictionary.

Words are important. Use them wisely.

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By *adyJayneWoman over a year ago

Burnleyish (She/They)

"But they / them are plural. You wouldn’t use a plural to describe a singular?"

Except they/them is also used in the singular, in English...

For example, two friend waiting for pizza,

"What time did we order pizza, do you think the delivery driver has got lost?"

"I'm sure they haven't, and we put our number on the order. They can ring if they aren't sure"

Unless it's the worlds largest pizza it is only one delivery driver.

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By *adyJayneWoman over a year ago

Burnleyish (She/They)

"If people identify as non-binary, why show the anatomy of the perceived physical anatomy so prominently in pictures? I am a but confused by it.

I assume you mean my boobs? I don’t mind my boobs lol; it’s the only part of my body I don’t have a *big* problem with.

Haha ditto... I'm more perturbed by my lack of penis.

Can I just ask how being a she and a they works? Do you switch depending on context? I find that a real struggle to get my head round.

Usually someone who goes by she/they pronouns would be happy with you using either, so it's interchangeable.

Personally I go by genderfluid.

I prefer they/them but am often more femme presenting (mostly out of the shape of my body being unhelpful), so don't get het up if people use she/her

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By *aliceWoman over a year ago

Birmingham

"But they / them are plural. You wouldn’t use a plural to describe a singular?

Except they/them is also used in the singular, in English...

For example, two friend waiting for pizza,

"What time did we order pizza, do you think the delivery driver has got lost?"

"I'm sure they haven't, and we put our number on the order. They can ring if they aren't sure"

Unless it's the worlds largest pizza it is only one delivery driver. "

Exactly. People are confused by pronouns they actually use all the time.

"I got a coat sent to me through work. I was thinking of giving it to Sarah. Do you think they would like it?"

"No, I don't think it will fit them"

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By *hoirCouple over a year ago

Clacton/Bury St. Edmunds

"After just being misgendered; would it not be a good idea for fab to add a section for your pronouns? One that would be displayed next to your name in forums and in chats?

I’d think it’d be a wonderful idea; would prevent misgendering and would make the place more inclusive

I've seen you misgender yourself in posts though. Why should somewhere do something that the people themselves cannot do?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I just tend to go by how anyone chooses to refer to their self?...

Literally no skin off my nose, and if that's who they present as, want to be referred as?... I don't see the issue personally

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By *nabelle21Woman over a year ago

B38

It's good to talk!

In every day life for me this subject is just not talked about..it never comes up.

I don't know any one that this affects.

I work for a business that takes personal information and they have never advised us to use this language.

It is only from reading through threads on fab that I have learned a little about it.

Now when I'm requesting customer information I am aware of it and try to include it. It doesn't come naturally....not yet anyway. I'm working on it.

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By *adyJayneWoman over a year ago

Burnleyish (She/They)

"It's good to talk!

In every day life for me this subject is just not talked about..it never comes up.

I don't know any one that this affects.

I work for a business that takes personal information and they have never advised us to use this language.

It is only from reading through threads on fab that I have learned a little about it.

Now when I'm requesting customer information I am aware of it and try to include it. It doesn't come naturally....not yet anyway. I'm working on it.

Awesome. Thank you for being understanding, learning and applying it to life. It's very much appreciated

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It's good to talk!

In every day life for me this subject is just not talked about..it never comes up.

I don't know any one that this affects.

I work for a business that takes personal information and they have never advised us to use this language.

It is only from reading through threads on fab that I have learned a little about it.

Now when I'm requesting customer information I am aware of it and try to include it. It doesn't come naturally....not yet anyway. I'm working on it.

Awesome. Thank you for being understanding, learning and applying it to life. It's very much appreciated"

From the opposite side though... I ask these questions daily as part of work interacting with members of the public... And frankly it's a bit awkward?... I always start with a *disclaimer* as in I'm going to ask you some Q's as the part of this conversation. But some may be of a sensitive nature, and you do not have to answer if you would prefer not to...

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By *RANDMRSJAECouple over a year ago

chester

"Brilliant....however many in this post are proving what they are..."

Most people have never met someone who is gender fluid. I haven’t, I’m certain none of my family or friends have either. Nobody wants to be difficult but it’s not going to change overnight.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"But they / them are plural. You wouldn’t use a plural to describe a singular?

Except they/them is also used in the singular, in English...

For example, two friend waiting for pizza,

"What time did we order pizza, do you think the delivery driver has got lost?"

"I'm sure they haven't, and we put our number on the order. They can ring if they aren't sure"

Unless it's the worlds largest pizza it is only one delivery driver. "

Perfect example!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Brilliant....however many in this post are proving what they are...

Most people have never met someone who is gender fluid. I haven’t, I’m certain none of my family or friends have either. Nobody wants to be difficult but it’s not going to change overnight.

So, I do. They are close too.

The good thing is, they are not a dick. So when I pause, because my brain was accustomed to referring to their name or their past pronoun a different way then what they want now, they have patience and see the sense of humour with it all.

It’s also difficult for me, I want them to be happy and comfortable, so I am also not a dick about.

We all get along this way.

I like the world when we all get to be who we want to be.

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By *atfuckerbristolMan over a year ago

Wells

I’m happy for there to be a place for this, but I won’t personally be updating mine.

Given that most communication outside the forums is one-on-one, I don’t often feel the need to refer to people in the third person. I also like to use people’s names when I reference them rather than a pronoun.

I suspect the majority of misgendering here is by honest mistake or oversight and not done out of cruelty or prejudice. But I get that it doesn’t feel that way to the recipient.

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By *acey_RedWoman over a year ago

Liverpool

"When would I use a pronoun to address somebody? And if I got it wrong is it such a crime?

You use them in conversation when talking about someone E.g. she is over there; they are coming at 12; he has 2 dogs.

If you get it wrong, just apologise, correct yourself and move on. No need to make a big scene

But isn't that talking about someone and not to someone? I would use your name if I knew you

By using them, when clearly talking about one person doesn’t sound correct?

Or have I misunderstood?

But they / them are plural. You wouldn’t use a plural to describe a singular?"

We do it all the time when the gender of a person is unknown. E.g. "I'm waiting to see the manager, when will they be available?"

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By *acey_RedWoman over a year ago

Liverpool

"When would I use a pronoun to address somebody? And if I got it wrong is it such a crime?

You use them in conversation when talking about someone E.g. she is over there; they are coming at 12; he has 2 dogs.

If you get it wrong, just apologise, correct yourself and move on. No need to make a big scene

But isn't that talking about someone and not to someone? I would use your name if I knew you

By using them, when clearly talking about one person doesn’t sound correct?

Or have I misunderstood?

But they / them are plural. You wouldn’t use a plural to describe a singular?

So after the meaning of they or them has evolved, how would you differentiate between a group of people or a person on their own. To use they for singular makes no sense at all.

What non-gendered alternative do you suggest to he/she?

Plenty of words have multiple meanings. Plenty of words can be both plural and singular (sheep, for example). It's about context and how the words are put into a sentence."

I've met some people who use the pronoun ze but then people kick off about the creation of a new one.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"After just being misgendered; would it not be a good idea for fab to add a section for your pronouns? One that would be displayed next to your name in forums and in chats?

I’d think it’d be a wonderful idea; would prevent misgendering and would make the place more inclusive

Just write in at the beginning of your profile - Simple!

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By *ools and the brainCouple over a year ago

couple, us we him her.

"After just being misgendered; would it not be a good idea for fab to add a section for your pronouns? One that would be displayed next to your name in forums and in chats?

I’d think it’d be a wonderful idea; would prevent misgendering and would make the place more inclusive

Can you explain what you mean by misgendered ?

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By *inky_couple2020Couple over a year ago

North West

"After just being misgendered; would it not be a good idea for fab to add a section for your pronouns? One that would be displayed next to your name in forums and in chats?

I’d think it’d be a wonderful idea; would prevent misgendering and would make the place more inclusive

Can you explain what you mean by misgendered ?"

It means being referred to as a gender that is not the one you identify with. For example, I am female and use the expected "she/her". If someone referred to me as "he/him", they would be misgendering me.

For example: "Mrs KC, isn't HE a marvellous wheelchair basketball player? Anyone know his availability for next weekend?"

This example would misgender me.

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By *ools and the brainCouple over a year ago

couple, us we him her.

But how's that the fault of the person who doesn't know you?

Blaming others for misgendering someone when they don't know them is not intended to offend people say what they see.

If I see a woman I would refer to her as her/she how the hell am I supposed to know they are them?

Yet apparently that is my fault????

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By *inky_couple2020Couple over a year ago

North West

"But how's that the fault of the person who doesn't know you?

Blaming others for misgendering someone when they don't know them is not intended to offend people say what they see.

If I see a woman I would refer to her as her/she how the hell am I supposed to know they are them?

Yet apparently that is my fault????"

Jools and the brain, I use the pronouns that would be expected by looking at me. I present as female, I am female. Yet, yesterday, someone on here insisted on calling me "fella", despite being told three times that it was Mrs KC posting.

THAT is misgendering. Getting it wrong accidentally and being politely corrected is fine. Continuing to use the wrong pronouns despite it being pointed out differently is the issue. Many people who use non gendered pronouns find that others refuse to address them in the way they wish, even after explaining it. That is the main issue.

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By *ools and the brainCouple over a year ago

couple, us we him her.

"But how's that the fault of the person who doesn't know you?

Blaming others for misgendering someone when they don't know them is not intended to offend people say what they see.

If I see a woman I would refer to her as her/she how the hell am I supposed to know they are them?

Yet apparently that is my fault????

Thanks for clearing that up

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By *nabelle21Woman over a year ago

B38

"But how's that the fault of the person who doesn't know you?

Blaming others for misgendering someone when they don't know them is not intended to offend people say what they see.

If I see a woman I would refer to her as her/she how the hell am I supposed to know they are them?

Yet apparently that is my fault????"

I'd have thought it would only be 'your' fault if you 'knew' and then didn’t address them in the right way.

That's what I'd have thought or hoped for.

Id hope understanding went both ways.

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By *naswingdressWoman over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"But how's that the fault of the person who doesn't know you?

Blaming others for misgendering someone when they don't know them is not intended to offend people say what they see.

If I see a woman I would refer to her as her/she how the hell am I supposed to know they are them?

Yet apparently that is my fault????"

When I had short hair I'd occasionally be called sir from the back. That's a mistake.

If I turn around, speak, and give my name (not gender neutral), and/or say something like "oh it's ma'am actually but please don't be so formal", and they keep calling me sir - that's misgendering.

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By *ools and the brainCouple over a year ago

couple, us we him her.

"But how's that the fault of the person who doesn't know you?

Blaming others for misgendering someone when they don't know them is not intended to offend people say what they see.

If I see a woman I would refer to her as her/she how the hell am I supposed to know they are them?

Yet apparently that is my fault????

When I had short hair I'd occasionally be called sir from the back. That's a mistake.

If I turn around, speak, and give my name (not gender neutral), and/or say something like "oh it's ma'am actually but please don't be so formal", and they keep calling me sir - that's misgendering."

Kinda like people constantly referring to me as a miserable cxnt when they know I'm just a miserable git

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By *nabelle21Woman over a year ago

B38

"But how's that the fault of the person who doesn't know you?

Blaming others for misgendering someone when they don't know them is not intended to offend people say what they see.

If I see a woman I would refer to her as her/she how the hell am I supposed to know they are them?

Yet apparently that is my fault????

When I had short hair I'd occasionally be called sir from the back. That's a mistake.

If I turn around, speak, and give my name (not gender neutral), and/or say something like "oh it's ma'am actually but please don't be so formal", and they keep calling me sir - that's misgendering.

Kinda like people constantly referring to me as a miserable cxnt when they know I'm just a miserable git

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"After just being misgendered; would it not be a good idea for fab to add a section for your pronouns? One that would be displayed next to your name in forums and in chats?

I’d think it’d be a wonderful idea; would prevent misgendering and would make the place more inclusive

You’re right, there’s always room for improvements. In general, it’s a very good site, and I believe the main issues are when peeps don’t take their time to read a persons profile. Some are just ignorant with their willingness to avoid useful information.

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By *andyfloss2000Woman over a year ago

ashford

"After just being misgendered; would it not be a good idea for fab to add a section for your pronouns? One that would be displayed next to your name in forums and in chats?

I’d think it’d be a wonderful idea; would prevent misgendering and would make the place more inclusive

Yes a very good idea x

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By *naswingdressWoman over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"But how's that the fault of the person who doesn't know you?

Blaming others for misgendering someone when they don't know them is not intended to offend people say what they see.

If I see a woman I would refer to her as her/she how the hell am I supposed to know they are them?

Yet apparently that is my fault????

When I had short hair I'd occasionally be called sir from the back. That's a mistake.

If I turn around, speak, and give my name (not gender neutral), and/or say something like "oh it's ma'am actually but please don't be so formal", and they keep calling me sir - that's misgendering.

Kinda like people constantly referring to me as a miserable cxnt when they know I'm just a miserable git

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By *andyfloss2000Woman over a year ago

ashford

"Brilliant....however many in this post are proving what they are..."

Exactly! And it's the same few that allways do! X

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By *inkywife1981Couple over a year ago

A town near you

If someone (a stranger) looks like a female and has a very feminine figure and face be they born female or are a very convincing trans/tv/ts/cross dressers and I approach looking for directions I would say excuse me miss. If that person then corrected me and said I'm non binary how dare you call me miss I'd be perplexed to say the least.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Wish we could go back to 2005

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If FAB doesn’t have it as an option then it probably doesn’t exist in reality.

They’re all seeing, what they say goes and they’re evidently hell-bent on keeping this “website” (because it isn’t an app) firmly rooted in the 1990’s.

Just look at the fonts we are using.

#iaskyou

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By *naswingdressWoman over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"If someone (a stranger) looks like a female and has a very feminine figure and face be they born female or are a very convincing trans/tv/ts/cross dressers and I approach looking for directions I would say excuse me miss. If that person then corrected me and said I'm non binary how dare you call me miss I'd be perplexed to say the least."

But if you come up behind me with very short hair and you call me sir, presumably you wouldn't be perplexed upon finding out I'm female presenting?

Do for them as you would for me. I'm no more deserving of respect than someone who isn't cis.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple over a year ago

North West

Why not just say "excuse me, can you direct me to XYZ?" Most of the time, there's no need for gendered language anyway. If I go into a shop or café, I'm perfectly happy with "good morning, how can I help you?" There's no need for "good morning Madam/Sir, how can I help you?" for example.

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By *naswingdressWoman over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

Yeah, I'm 90% as uncomfortable with madam as I am with sir. It's not the gender (although being called male pronouns is jarring), it's the formality.

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By *UGGYBEAR2015Man over a year ago

BRIDPORT

"After just being misgendered; would it not be a good idea for fab to add a section for your pronouns? One that would be displayed next to your name in forums and in chats?

I’d think it’d be a wonderful idea; would prevent misgendering and would make the place more inclusive

Can you explain what you mean by misgendered ?

For example: "Mrs KC, isn't HE a marvellous wheelchair basketball player? Anyone know his availability for next weekend?"

This example would misgender me. "

This example would be the wrong thing to say on more than just the issue of misgendering

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By *naswingdressWoman over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

It's all about basic respect. Let's hope we can learn to respect one another

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By *ornucopiaMan over a year ago

Bexley

My pronouns are they/them; I’m non-binary "

I have never cared for the use of 'they/them' when referring to only one person.

It is almost like the opposite of the 'royal we', an affectation which sounds wrong.

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