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German Anti Semitic Statue
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By *ssex_tom OP Man
over a year ago
Chelmsford |
A medieval German church that has a statue depicting Jewish people suckling from a pig has been authorized to remain by a German judge. Apparently it's not uncommon to have such statues on German medieval churches. Strange! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Probably wasn’t uncommon seen as even as far back medieval times there’s evidence of Jewish people experiencing anti semitism. Refusing to remove it feels like allowing dangerous imagery to remain for very little good reason.
As with all forms of racism, my take is: Disappointed but not surprised. |
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Are they going to have something along side it to explain it in context? There's lots in medieval art that is just plain wrong. I don't know if we should eradicate our uncomfortable history so that future generations can deny it ever happened. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Are they going to have something along side it to explain it in context? There's lots in medieval art that is just plain wrong. I don't know if we should eradicate our uncomfortable history so that future generations can deny it ever happened. "
I don’t think removal of these things would lead to denial. And I think removal of racist statues does more good than harm if anything. |
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By *aliceWoman
over a year ago
Birmingham |
As usual, half the story is told.
The church in question added a memorial to the holocaust some time ago, and that memorial explains and attempts to face up to the historical weight of antisemitism by the christian church. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Probably wasn’t uncommon seen as even as far back medieval times there’s evidence of Jewish people experiencing anti semitism. Refusing to remove it feels like allowing dangerous imagery to remain for very little good reason.
As with all forms of racism, my take is: Disappointed but not surprised. "
I don’t think it should be removed. Education is important, so issues such as racism isn’t hidden. Or fool ourselves it’s eradicated.
There should be conversations and information about this statue, educate people and the stupidly of the past still continues today. |
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"Are they going to have something along side it to explain it in context? There's lots in medieval art that is just plain wrong. I don't know if we should eradicate our uncomfortable history so that future generations can deny it ever happened.
I don’t think removal of these things would lead to denial. And I think removal of racist statues does more good than harm if anything. "
There are people who deny that the Holocaust actually happened, something I struggle to comprehend. If it's used to educate people of the horrors caused by anti semitism it can only be good can't it? It's good to see the church admit it was wrong and face up for their actions for a change. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"As usual, half the story is told.
The church in question added a memorial to the holocaust some time ago, and that memorial explains and attempts to face up to the historical weight of antisemitism by the christian church."
Well thanks for clarifying this. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I'm in two minds, the historian in me wants it to remain so that people can face their uncomfortable history and continue to learn from it, and the architecture is every bit involve on the learning process. But the human being in me realises it's uncomfortable to look at and think there's no place for any symbol of racism or anti-Semitism. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Probably wasn’t uncommon seen as even as far back medieval times there’s evidence of Jewish people experiencing anti semitism. Refusing to remove it feels like allowing dangerous imagery to remain for very little good reason.
As with all forms of racism, my take is: Disappointed but not surprised.
I don’t think it should be removed. Education is important, so issues such as racism isn’t hidden. Or fool ourselves it’s eradicated.
There should be conversations and information about this statue, educate people and the stupidly of the past still continues today. "
Educating people of the horrors of racism is not dependent on keeping statues up. Donate them to museums that challenge racism and depict racism throughout history if they’re so passionate. The only people ever fooled into believing racism doesn’t exist are fooled into believing so despite these things already existing by the way.
Anyway as was pointed out to me, there’s information about the antisemitic connotations of the statue already. The judge ruled. I disagree but can’t change it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Are they going to have something along side it to explain it in context? There's lots in medieval art that is just plain wrong. I don't know if we should eradicate our uncomfortable history so that future generations can deny it ever happened.
I don’t think removal of these things would lead to denial. And I think removal of racist statues does more good than harm if anything.
There are people who deny that the Holocaust actually happened, something I struggle to comprehend. If it's used to educate people of the horrors caused by anti semitism it can only be good can't it? It's good to see the church admit it was wrong and face up for their actions for a change. "
I know there are.
And imo, It can’t ‘only’ be good. It’s still plenty bad imo. Anyway my comment was made before knowing about the church has owned up to their antisemitism. So in terms of it being used in that way that’s fair enough. I wouldn’t use it that way but it is what it is. I personally don’t enjoy seeing racist statues or statues of racists but charge it to the game of life I guess. |
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"Are they going to have something along side it to explain it in context? There's lots in medieval art that is just plain wrong. I don't know if we should eradicate our uncomfortable history so that future generations can deny it ever happened.
I don’t think removal of these things would lead to denial. And I think removal of racist statues does more good than harm if anything.
There are people who deny that the Holocaust actually happened, something I struggle to comprehend. If it's used to educate people of the horrors caused by anti semitism it can only be good can't it? It's good to see the church admit it was wrong and face up for their actions for a change.
I know there are.
And imo, It can’t ‘only’ be good. It’s still plenty bad imo. Anyway my comment was made before knowing about the church has owned up to their antisemitism. So in terms of it being used in that way that’s fair enough. I wouldn’t use it that way but it is what it is. I personally don’t enjoy seeing racist statues or statues of racists but charge it to the game of life I guess. "
I don't think we're supposed to enjoy it though. It's supposed to make us uncomfortable. Art isn't always about nice things, sometimes it depicts absolute horror.
Status commemorating racists is a different thing in my opinion, those should be taken down in my opinion. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Are they going to have something along side it to explain it in context? There's lots in medieval art that is just plain wrong. I don't know if we should eradicate our uncomfortable history so that future generations can deny it ever happened.
I don’t think removal of these things would lead to denial. And I think removal of racist statues does more good than harm if anything.
There are people who deny that the Holocaust actually happened, something I struggle to comprehend. If it's used to educate people of the horrors caused by anti semitism it can only be good can't it? It's good to see the church admit it was wrong and face up for their actions for a change.
I know there are.
And imo, It can’t ‘only’ be good. It’s still plenty bad imo. Anyway my comment was made before knowing about the church has owned up to their antisemitism. So in terms of it being used in that way that’s fair enough. I wouldn’t use it that way but it is what it is. I personally don’t enjoy seeing racist statues or statues of racists but charge it to the game of life I guess.
I don't think we're supposed to enjoy it though. It's supposed to make us uncomfortable. Art isn't always about nice things, sometimes it depicts absolute horror.
Status commemorating racists is a different thing in my opinion, those should be taken down in my opinion. "
I agree in this context I (a non Jewish person) is not supposed to enjoy that and my discomfort isn’t something I’m considering in that context my bad. I mean if Jewish people feel uncomfortable seeing it (as I feel uncomfortable seeing lots of historical racist statues which tbf you’ve said you see as different) that’s not a good thing. And it’s not supposed to make them feel uncomfortable at this point. I assume (wrong to assume I know) that some Jewish people find it uncomfortable if it got to a judge ruling on it anyway. |
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"Are they going to have something along side it to explain it in context? There's lots in medieval art that is just plain wrong. I don't know if we should eradicate our uncomfortable history so that future generations can deny it ever happened.
I don’t think removal of these things would lead to denial. And I think removal of racist statues does more good than harm if anything.
There are people who deny that the Holocaust actually happened, something I struggle to comprehend. If it's used to educate people of the horrors caused by anti semitism it can only be good can't it? It's good to see the church admit it was wrong and face up for their actions for a change.
I know there are.
And imo, It can’t ‘only’ be good. It’s still plenty bad imo. Anyway my comment was made before knowing about the church has owned up to their antisemitism. So in terms of it being used in that way that’s fair enough. I wouldn’t use it that way but it is what it is. I personally don’t enjoy seeing racist statues or statues of racists but charge it to the game of life I guess.
I don't think we're supposed to enjoy it though. It's supposed to make us uncomfortable. Art isn't always about nice things, sometimes it depicts absolute horror.
Status commemorating racists is a different thing in my opinion, those should be taken down in my opinion.
I agree in this context I (a non Jewish person) is not supposed to enjoy that and my discomfort isn’t something I’m considering in that context my bad. I mean if Jewish people feel uncomfortable seeing it (as I feel uncomfortable seeing lots of historical racist statues which tbf you’ve said you see as different) that’s not a good thing. And it’s not supposed to make them feel uncomfortable at this point. I assume (wrong to assume I know) that some Jewish people find it uncomfortable if it got to a judge ruling on it anyway. "
To me then it becomes about where the statue is situated. It's within a church where I'm assuming not many Jewish people visit (though my thinking maybe wrong). So that statue along with the Holocaust memorial is reminding the congregation of their religions, persecution of a minority and where that can ultimately lead. |
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"I'm in two minds, the historian in me wants it to remain so that people can face their uncomfortable history and continue to learn from it, and the architecture is every bit involve on the learning process. But the human being in me realises it's uncomfortable to look at and think there's no place for any symbol of racism or anti-Semitism."
The historian in me wants to preserve, but I think it'd just give support to the vile elements in society.
Put it in a museum storage unit. Bring it out in a freak show style exhibition of stuff we're better than now. |
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