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Wheelchair life
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*Warning: the following thread contains a rant. If you are of a sensitive disposition or are allergic to any of the contents, please consider not reading*
This morning, I took my daughter to school. She walked/skipped, I rolled in my chair. We do this often. The route to/from school takes us through a ginnel* which is downhill on the way there and so uphill on the way back. It's a nice morning, so I was mooching back up the ginnel-hill and enjoying the sunshine. Someone appeared behind me and asked if I wanted help.
Me - no thank you
Him - are you sure?
Me - yes, I'm fine thanks
Him - I can push you *moves closer but I still can't see him*
Me - please don't push me, I'm fine
Him - I feel so bad now
Me - why?
Him - because I should push you
Me (examining all exit routes, there are none) - please don't push me, I am fine
Upon getting to the top of the hill, I whizzed back down and home double-quick time.
The moral of the story? Please don't try and impose help on people who don't want/need it. Please don't hover behind a wheelchair user where they can't see and suggest you will start pushing them, especially if they've specifically said "don't". Please don't try and guilt-trip someone into accepting help (being manually handled) when they have explicitly said "no thanks".
~Fin~
*Northern lingo for a pathway between houses |
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I’m sorry to hear that; Offering help is a nice gesture but if it is not needed nor wanted, one should take the hint.
Ginnel - I used to date a lovely girl from Manchester who introduced me to this word.
For some reason, the phonetics always made me laugh (it sounds like a possible term for an arsehole or something)  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Oh that’s so shitty. I wish people could get over this feeling they have to forcibly do something that makes them feel better. Sorry this happened and that this is probably not the first time. Sounds all a bit exhausting but I like that you rant and get it out there. I learn a lot from you. And it’s not your job to teach us I know but still it’s wonderful that we can learn from you. Anyway lots of love to you.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I totally hear you OP, I can see where the gentleman was initially coming from though, for many it would almost be reactionary. I see all to often in my places of work people become deskilled and have what's left of their independence taken away. As with all matters like these, discussion, education and awareness are key. |
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"Thank you, above lovely people
I don't object to the offer of help. I do object to it being "forced" and I definitely object to being guilt tripped. "I feel so bad now....." Errrr, why?!  "
He felt bad because he wrongly perceived you to be in need of help and he couldn't give it. He very likely doesn't understand what it's like to be in your position and didn't put himself in your place. I think it's a case of him being over eager and genuinely not understanding how he was making you feel vulnerable. I'm not minimising your experience and your post has made me think about how I offer help to people  |
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It sounds like this was his stuff more than yours, the feeling bad part in particular, so please don’t let him make you feel guilty.
There’s a guy who has the same neuromuscular condition as my husband and son who said “it takes a lot of ability to be disabled in this world”, not everybody sees that unfortunately x |
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Knowing when to stop before the "are you sure" part is a learning process. Like encouraging your child to do something rather than you taking over because it's quicker.
I feel for both of you tbf xxx |
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"Thank you, above lovely people
I don't object to the offer of help. I do object to it being "forced" and I definitely object to being guilt tripped. "I feel so bad now....." Errrr, why?! "
A very weird exchange you had with him, OP. Must be very frustrating. Glad you could vent here.
I'm sure he meant well with the initial offer but, as you say, very odd to keep pushing it (if you'll pardon the unintended pun), which sounds unnecessarily awkward. |
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"Thank you, above lovely people
I don't object to the offer of help. I do object to it being "forced" and I definitely object to being guilt tripped. "I feel so bad now....." Errrr, why?!
A very weird exchange you had with him, OP. Must be very frustrating. Glad you could vent here.
I'm sure he meant well with the initial offer but, as you say, very odd to keep pushing it (if you'll pardon the unintended pun), which sounds unnecessarily awkward."
I like the pun  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I can empathise with this, OP. I spent 8 months in a wheelchair after a leg operation and I got so fed up with being patronised by "do-gooders". And in this context, I don't mean people who actually "do good", but those who think they are doing good but actually weren't and will never be convinced that they are a hindrance, not a help. In the end, I put a sign on the back of the chair that said "thank you, but if I need help, I'll ask for it". I felt churlish on occasion, but it helped. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I suspect his comment about feeling guilty wasn't an attempt to guilt trip you but simply him projecting his own feelings into your situation.
You have lived with a wheelchair for a number of years, it has become "normal" for you. Yes it has many challenges but the initial feelings of loss, bewilderment, shock etc that you would surely have felt when your life first changed are all things you've learnt to deal with to one extent or another - even if this can do be hard to do. As an able bodied person trying to empathise it is incredibly difficult to see past those initial shocking emotions to a life where being confined to a wheelchair is "normal" so able bodied people trying to empathise tend to imagine themselves as they are now suddenly finding themselves in a wheelchair and unable to be who they are now, rather than seeing themselves in a situation where they have learnt to live with this new life and actually want to simply be treated the same as everyone else.
The gentleman in question was certainly socially awkward, his lack of consideration about you not being able to see him is strange but I'm not convinced he was guilt tripping you or even trying to force help on you.
As Nice Couple said (I honestly think she reads my mind sometimes) it has made me think about offering help and how far to go. How do you know when a polite refusal is just British manners and the person would actually be very grateful but is refusing out of guilt/a desire not to put upon others? I'm sure we can all think of times we've turned down help we would really rather have had just to be polite or because we were too embarrassed to accept it. I have certainly been grateful for people pushing the point when I've initially refused.
I do think though that there is an unc@nscious bias that assumes people with a physical disability also have less.... I can't think of the word but somehow less able to know what they want/is good for them so people will perhaps push offers of help further than they would for someone without an obvious disability.
Sorry you had (yet another) shit start to your day and thank you again for making me think about how I behave.
Mr |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I can empathise with this, OP. I spent 8 months in a wheelchair after a leg operation and I got so fed up with being patronised by "do-gooders". And in this context, I don't mean people who actually "do good", but those who think they are doing good but actually weren't and will never be convinced that they are a hindrance, not a help. In the end, I put a sign on the back of the chair that said "thank you, but if I need help, I'll ask for it". I felt churlish on occasion, but it helped."
My dad is in a wheelchair since a stroke 5 years ago. I've learnt to shut up and wait to be asked.  |
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Some polite observations to comments above (not quoting for brevity).
Unless someone lives in a wheelchair 24/7, they are not confined to it. My mates with very profound disability all sleep in beds, transfer onto the loo and take showers in a shower chair. We USE the wheelchairs, but are not confined. I am presently sat on my lovely adapted office chair 
And yes, lots of people conflate physical impairment and mental incapacity. It is assumed anyone with physical disabilities are also mentally impaired in some way. Which obviously, is not true!
So, please don't speak "down" to us (yes, yes, I am sitting down, but you know what I mean! ) No baby talk or infantilising language, ta.
And I am NOT brave or inspirational for doing the school run, going to the shops or work or any other mundane daily task. I would hope my work itself is inspirational to the young people I work with, but because of what I do for them and teach them, not because I sit on my not-insubstantial rear to do it  |
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"I can empathise with this, OP. I spent 8 months in a wheelchair after a leg operation and I got so fed up with being patronised by "do-gooders". And in this context, I don't mean people who actually "do good", but those who think they are doing good but actually weren't and will never be convinced that they are a hindrance, not a help. In the end, I put a sign on the back of the chair that said "thank you, but if I need help, I'll ask for it". I felt churlish on occasion, but it helped.
My dad is in a wheelchair since a stroke 5 years ago. I've learnt to shut up and wait to be asked. "
This is the right answer  |
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"I can empathise with this, OP. I spent 8 months in a wheelchair after a leg operation and I got so fed up with being patronised by "do-gooders". And in this context, I don't mean people who actually "do good", but those who think they are doing good but actually weren't and will never be convinced that they are a hindrance, not a help. In the end, I put a sign on the back of the chair that said "thank you, but if I need help, I'll ask for it". I felt churlish on occasion, but it helped.
My dad is in a wheelchair since a stroke 5 years ago. I've learnt to shut up and wait to be asked.
This is the right answer "
When is It ok to offer help Mrs K? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Some polite observations to comments above (not quoting for brevity).
Unless someone lives in a wheelchair 24/7, they are not confined to it. My mates with very profound disability all sleep in beds, transfer onto the loo and take showers in a shower chair. We USE the wheelchairs, but are not confined. I am presently sat on my lovely adapted office chair
And yes, lots of people conflate physical impairment and mental incapacity. It is assumed anyone with physical disabilities are also mentally impaired in some way. Which obviously, is not true!
So, please don't speak "down" to us (yes, yes, I am sitting down, but you know what I mean! ) No baby talk or infantilising language, ta.
And I am NOT brave or inspirational for doing the school run, going to the shops or work or any other mundane daily task. I would hope my work itself is inspirational to the young people I work with, but because of what I do for them and teach them, not because I sit on my not-insubstantial rear to do it "
Would "wheelchair user" be better than "in a wheelchair"? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Some polite observations to comments above (not quoting for brevity).
Unless someone lives in a wheelchair 24/7, they are not confined to it. My mates with very profound disability all sleep in beds, transfer onto the loo and take showers in a shower chair. We USE the wheelchairs, but are not confined. I am presently sat on my lovely adapted office chair
And yes, lots of people conflate physical impairment and mental incapacity. It is assumed anyone with physical disabilities are also mentally impaired in some way. Which obviously, is not true!
So, please don't speak "down" to us (yes, yes, I am sitting down, but you know what I mean! ) No baby talk or infantilising language, ta.
And I am NOT brave or inspirational for doing the school run, going to the shops or work or any other mundane daily task. I would hope my work itself is inspirational to the young people I work with, but because of what I do for them and teach them, not because I sit on my not-insubstantial rear to do it "
Do we get to choose what others find inspirational? I can understand the sentiment, there's stuff that I do that I have had others say the same about and I deeply dislike the idea but I'm not sure I can change it. I've never asked for consent off other people I find an inspiration to see if they are happy with the aspects of their life I am inspired by so don't feel in a position to tell others what is or isn't inspirational about me if that makes sense.
Mr |
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"Some polite observations to comments above (not quoting for brevity).
Unless someone lives in a wheelchair 24/7, they are not confined to it. My mates with very profound disability all sleep in beds, transfer onto the loo and take showers in a shower chair. We USE the wheelchairs, but are not confined. I am presently sat on my lovely adapted office chair
And yes, lots of people conflate physical impairment and mental incapacity. It is assumed anyone with physical disabilities are also mentally impaired in some way. Which obviously, is not true!
So, please don't speak "down" to us (yes, yes, I am sitting down, but you know what I mean! ) No baby talk or infantilising language, ta.
And I am NOT brave or inspirational for doing the school run, going to the shops or work or any other mundane daily task. I would hope my work itself is inspirational to the young people I work with, but because of what I do for them and teach them, not because I sit on my not-insubstantial rear to do it
Do we get to choose what others find inspirational? I can understand the sentiment, there's stuff that I do that I have had others say the same about and I deeply dislike the idea but I'm not sure I can change it. I've never asked for consent off other people I find an inspiration to see if they are happy with the aspects of their life I am inspired by so don't feel in a position to tell others what is or isn't inspirational about me if that makes sense.
Mr"
If someone finds it inspirational that an adult human can do the shopping or whatever, I find that quite bizarre to be honest. Would they find an able bodied adult going round Tesco to be inspirational? Almost certainly not. Why a person whizzing round in a wheelchair? I don't get it? |
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"I can empathise with this, OP. I spent 8 months in a wheelchair after a leg operation and I got so fed up with being patronised by "do-gooders". And in this context, I don't mean people who actually "do good", but those who think they are doing good but actually weren't and will never be convinced that they are a hindrance, not a help. In the end, I put a sign on the back of the chair that said "thank you, but if I need help, I'll ask for it". I felt churlish on occasion, but it helped.
My dad is in a wheelchair since a stroke 5 years ago. I've learnt to shut up and wait to be asked.
This is the right answer
When is It ok to offer help Mrs K? "
It was intended as a joke because I almost never want/need help and it's the same for many people I know. We just want to get ourselves from A to B, like everyone else does.
So, if you feel the need to, offer help. But please don't be offended by a polite "no thanks" or keep on with repeated offers or impose help upon someone who has not asked for it or consented to it.
The number of people who think it is acceptable to grab the handles of a wheelchair and move it without asking is insane. Would they grab an able bodied person by the shoulders and steer them in a given direction? Almost certainly not. |
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"Some polite observations to comments above (not quoting for brevity).
Unless someone lives in a wheelchair 24/7, they are not confined to it. My mates with very profound disability all sleep in beds, transfer onto the loo and take showers in a shower chair. We USE the wheelchairs, but are not confined. I am presently sat on my lovely adapted office chair
And yes, lots of people conflate physical impairment and mental incapacity. It is assumed anyone with physical disabilities are also mentally impaired in some way. Which obviously, is not true!
So, please don't speak "down" to us (yes, yes, I am sitting down, but you know what I mean! ) No baby talk or infantilising language, ta.
And I am NOT brave or inspirational for doing the school run, going to the shops or work or any other mundane daily task. I would hope my work itself is inspirational to the young people I work with, but because of what I do for them and teach them, not because I sit on my not-insubstantial rear to do it
Would "wheelchair user" be better than "in a wheelchair"? "
Wheelchair user is factual and pretty neutral, so yes. I'm only wheelchair bound if someone ties me into it |
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"I can empathise with this, OP. I spent 8 months in a wheelchair after a leg operation and I got so fed up with being patronised by "do-gooders". And in this context, I don't mean people who actually "do good", but those who think they are doing good but actually weren't and will never be convinced that they are a hindrance, not a help. In the end, I put a sign on the back of the chair that said "thank you, but if I need help, I'll ask for it". I felt churlish on occasion, but it helped.
My dad is in a wheelchair since a stroke 5 years ago. I've learnt to shut up and wait to be asked.
This is the right answer
When is It ok to offer help Mrs K?
It was intended as a joke because I almost never want/need help and it's the same for many people I know. We just want to get ourselves from A to B, like everyone else does.
So, if you feel the need to, offer help. But please don't be offended by a polite "no thanks" or keep on with repeated offers or impose help upon someone who has not asked for it or consented to it.
The number of people who think it is acceptable to grab the handles of a wheelchair and move it without asking is insane. Would they grab an able bodied person by the shoulders and steer them in a given direction? Almost certainly not."
Ok. I know from taking my mum out and attending medical appointments with both parents that there's definitely a 'does he take sugar' attitude. I try to treat everyone the same, so if I offer help and it's refused I don't offer again whoever it is. I try to treat everyone the same. I did warn a low vision guy that he was heading towards a huge unavoidable puddle a while back and he snapped back at me that he knew, I wouldn't have mentioned it to someone with good vision |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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To be honest, simply being a small woman gets me this sort of offer. The number of times I've had men ask me if I need help and then hover to see if I'm managing isn't that unusual. Just let them be. They don't mean any harm by it and I'm glad we still have a society where people offer it. I don't begrudge them for it. |
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*I hope the following comes across in the way it's intended, it's hard to put into words*
When a disabled person is going from A to B, doing the shopping etc, they almost certainly have thought about what they need to do to achieve XYZ and likely have pre planned a route, parking and all the rest. It's something disabled people have to become familiar with doing, because there ARE so many potential obstacles.
So, having planned carefully and now going about your business, it can feel very infantilising to be constantly perceived as needing help when you are in fact just traversing the pavement or clipping a trolley to your wheelchair (or whatever) and these are things you do every day/week etc. I would say anyone genuinely needing help would be likely to actively ask.
I put to able bodied people - if, when going about your daily life, you realise you need help (e.g. lifting heavy items or getting through a door with your hands full), what would you do? The chances are, your answer is exactly the same as a disabled person. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"*I hope the following comes across in the way it's intended, it's hard to put into words*
When a disabled person is going from A to B, doing the shopping etc, they almost certainly have thought about what they need to do to achieve XYZ and likely have pre planned a route, parking and all the rest. It's something disabled people have to become familiar with doing, because there ARE so many potential obstacles.
So, having planned carefully and now going about your business, it can feel very infantilising to be constantly perceived as needing help when you are in fact just traversing the pavement or clipping a trolley to your wheelchair (or whatever) and these are things you do every day/week etc. I would say anyone genuinely needing help would be likely to actively ask.
I put to able bodied people - if, when going about your daily life, you realise you need help (e.g. lifting heavy items or getting through a door with your hands full), what would you do? The chances are, your answer is exactly the same as a disabled person. "
Quite honestly, I wouldn't always ask for help but when it is offered and I realise I need it, I'm grateful for it. |
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By *ayHaychMan
over a year ago
Leeds (Home) / Sheffield (Work) |
The “I feel so bad now” is a good example of how people struggle to sit with their own feelings and how it can lead them to act in a way they believe, but clearly isn’t, altruistic. |
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"To be honest, simply being a small woman gets me this sort of offer. The number of times I've had men ask me if I need help and then hover to see if I'm managing isn't that unusual. Just let them be. They don't mean any harm by it and I'm glad we still have a society where people offer it. I don't begrudge them for it."
People offer to convey you up hills etc? That's the sort of thing I'm talking about. The mundane daily "getting from A to B". Things like reaching things on a shelf or something, yes, help might well be needed by someone of shorter stature or in a wheelchair or whatever.
Being constantly offered (and re-offered) unwanted help and having to explain why you don't want/need it is tiresome, honestly. You might be offering for the first time but you might be the fifth offerer.
It's not the initial offer of help that's the principle bugbear. It's the repeated offer/forced/unwanted "help", like people just grabbing your chair and nearly tipping you out. And yes, I personally get pissed off that the obvious perception of people is I'm weak and feeble and must require help to get from A to B. I wouldn't have set out from A if I did not think I would make it to B without procuring the help of random people on the way. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Knowing you in person Mrs KC I can’t believe he didn’t heed your first ‘no thanks’
But you’re right lots of people are well meaning but don’t understand that actually they are being patronising. You function in life just as anyone else does.. admittedly with more adversity than some (mainly dealing with uneducated twats) but nobody else gets a round of applause for doing everyday things and you should be no different.
Just a person getting on with life who happens to be in a wheelchair!
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"*I hope the following comes across in the way it's intended, it's hard to put into words*
When a disabled person is going from A to B, doing the shopping etc, they almost certainly have thought about what they need to do to achieve XYZ and likely have pre planned a route, parking and all the rest. It's something disabled people have to become familiar with doing, because there ARE so many potential obstacles.
So, having planned carefully and now going about your business, it can feel very infantilising to be constantly perceived as needing help when you are in fact just traversing the pavement or clipping a trolley to your wheelchair (or whatever) and these are things you do every day/week etc. I would say anyone genuinely needing help would be likely to actively ask.
I put to able bodied people - if, when going about your daily life, you realise you need help (e.g. lifting heavy items or getting through a door with your hands full), what would you do? The chances are, your answer is exactly the same as a disabled person. "
So don't offer help, wait to be asked? |
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"*I hope the following comes across in the way it's intended, it's hard to put into words*
When a disabled person is going from A to B, doing the shopping etc, they almost certainly have thought about what they need to do to achieve XYZ and likely have pre planned a route, parking and all the rest. It's something disabled people have to become familiar with doing, because there ARE so many potential obstacles.
So, having planned carefully and now going about your business, it can feel very infantilising to be constantly perceived as needing help when you are in fact just traversing the pavement or clipping a trolley to your wheelchair (or whatever) and these are things you do every day/week etc. I would say anyone genuinely needing help would be likely to actively ask.
I put to able bodied people - if, when going about your daily life, you realise you need help (e.g. lifting heavy items or getting through a door with your hands full), what would you do? The chances are, your answer is exactly the same as a disabled person.
So don't offer help, wait to be asked?"
I would say yes.
I don't know if it made sense that you can feel like you're being treated like a child or as weak/feeble if people keep offering help with really mundane things? And that's really frustrating. |
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By *ayHaychMan
over a year ago
Leeds (Home) / Sheffield (Work) |
"To be honest, simply being a small woman gets me this sort of offer. The number of times I've had men ask me if I need help and then hover to see if I'm managing isn't that unusual. Just let them be. They don't mean any harm by it and I'm glad we still have a society where people offer it. I don't begrudge them for it."
I think it is a little different when someone is offering to physically move you. Let’s take your example of being short. It’s like someone coming up behind you who you can’t see (as that’s what the OP described), not taking your initial “no” for answer, and then saying “oh I feel bad, I want to lift you up so you can reach”. Then hovering to see if you need them to life you in the air to reach whatever it is that’s too high. All the while you haven’t even seen their face. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"*Warning: the following thread contains a rant. If you are of a sensitive disposition or are allergic to any of the contents, please consider not reading*
This morning, I took my daughter to school. She walked/skipped, I rolled in my chair. We do this often. The route to/from school takes us through a ginnel* which is downhill on the way there and so uphill on the way back. It's a nice morning, so I was mooching back up the ginnel-hill and enjoying the sunshine. Someone appeared behind me and asked if I wanted help.
Me - no thank you
Him - are you sure?
Me - yes, I'm fine thanks
Him - I can push you *moves closer but I still can't see him*
Me - please don't push me, I'm fine
Him - I feel so bad now
Me - why?
Him - because I should push you
Me (examining all exit routes, there are none) - please don't push me, I am fine
Upon getting to the top of the hill, I whizzed back down and home double-quick time.
The moral of the story? Please don't try and impose help on people who don't want/need it. Please don't hover behind a wheelchair user where they can't see and suggest you will start pushing them, especially if they've specifically said "don't". Please don't try and guilt-trip someone into accepting help (being manually handled) when they have explicitly said "no thanks".
~Fin~
*Northern lingo for a pathway between houses "
We are finding some older generation folk trying to take similar liberties with our pram, especially when we go into shops and more so community centres or similar.
Only yesterday K when to the community eco shop to be told she would have to leave the pram Inc our newborn baby at the front entrance whilst she went around the shop! She told the volunteer just how out dated and wrong this advice was they still didn't get it so K asked him do they also ask / require wheelchair users to leave their wheel chair atthe front entrance before doing their shopping? Only then did the penny drop.
On another day in a similar place they tried to guilt us when we said know we don't want you a stranger to hold and mind our newborn whilst we shop.
I know what we have come up against is nothing compared to the challanges faced by wheelchair users like yourself Mrs KC.
I'm sorry this happens to you. |
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"*I hope the following comes across in the way it's intended, it's hard to put into words*
When a disabled person is going from A to B, doing the shopping etc, they almost certainly have thought about what they need to do to achieve XYZ and likely have pre planned a route, parking and all the rest. It's something disabled people have to become familiar with doing, because there ARE so many potential obstacles.
So, having planned carefully and now going about your business, it can feel very infantilising to be constantly perceived as needing help when you are in fact just traversing the pavement or clipping a trolley to your wheelchair (or whatever) and these are things you do every day/week etc. I would say anyone genuinely needing help would be likely to actively ask.
I put to able bodied people - if, when going about your daily life, you realise you need help (e.g. lifting heavy items or getting through a door with your hands full), what would you do? The chances are, your answer is exactly the same as a disabled person.
So don't offer help, wait to be asked?
I would say yes.
I don't know if it made sense that you can feel like you're being treated like a child or as weak/feeble if people keep offering help with really mundane things? And that's really frustrating. "
I absolutely understand what you're saying and have to a tiny extent experienced similar.
However I've also had experience of people saying things like
"I was struggling to do x and people just walked past without offering help" this is what makes me unsure |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Thank you, above lovely people
I don't object to the offer of help. I do object to it being "forced" and I definitely object to being guilt tripped. "I feel so bad now....." Errrr, why?!
He felt bad because he wrongly perceived you to be in need of help and he couldn't give it. He very likely doesn't understand what it's like to be in your position and didn't put himself in your place. I think it's a case of him being over eager and genuinely not understanding how he was making you feel vulnerable. I'm not minimising your experience and your post has made me think about how I offer help to people "
This makes sense to me.
People are always saying #bekind yet the majority of times I try to help I get snapped at.
I'm giving up. Can't win either way. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"*I hope the following comes across in the way it's intended, it's hard to put into words*
When a disabled person is going from A to B, doing the shopping etc, they almost certainly have thought about what they need to do to achieve XYZ and likely have pre planned a route, parking and all the rest. It's something disabled people have to become familiar with doing, because there ARE so many potential obstacles.
So, having planned carefully and now going about your business, it can feel very infantilising to be constantly perceived as needing help when you are in fact just traversing the pavement or clipping a trolley to your wheelchair (or whatever) and these are things you do every day/week etc. I would say anyone genuinely needing help would be likely to actively ask.
I put to able bodied people - if, when going about your daily life, you realise you need help (e.g. lifting heavy items or getting through a door with your hands full), what would you do? The chances are, your answer is exactly the same as a disabled person. "
Fair point well made. |
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"To be honest, simply being a small woman gets me this sort of offer. The number of times I've had men ask me if I need help and then hover to see if I'm managing isn't that unusual. Just let them be. They don't mean any harm by it and I'm glad we still have a society where people offer it. I don't begrudge them for it.
I think it is a little different when someone is offering to physically move you. Let’s take your example of being short. It’s like someone coming up behind you who you can’t see (as that’s what the OP described), not taking your initial “no” for answer, and then saying “oh I feel bad, I want to lift you up so you can reach”. Then hovering to see if you need them to life you in the air to reach whatever it is that’s too high. All the while you haven’t even seen their face. "
^^^This. Thank you for "verbalising" better than I could. It's very much this. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"To be honest, simply being a small woman gets me this sort of offer. The number of times I've had men ask me if I need help and then hover to see if I'm managing isn't that unusual. Just let them be. They don't mean any harm by it and I'm glad we still have a society where people offer it. I don't begrudge them for it.
People offer to convey you up hills etc? That's the sort of thing I'm talking about. The mundane daily "getting from A to B". Things like reaching things on a shelf or something, yes, help might well be needed by someone of shorter stature or in a wheelchair or whatever.
Being constantly offered (and re-offered) unwanted help and having to explain why you don't want/need it is tiresome, honestly. You might be offering for the first time but you might be the fifth offerer.
It's not the initial offer of help that's the principle bugbear. It's the repeated offer/forced/unwanted "help", like people just grabbing your chair and nearly tipping you out. And yes, I personally get pissed off that the obvious perception of people is I'm weak and feeble and must require help to get from A to B. I wouldn't have set out from A if I did not think I would make it to B without procuring the help of random people on the way."
They may not be asking to convey me up hills but I thought we were discussing the gesture, not the act. It is that sort of thing that I was offered; help with what looks to be a heavy item or my hands being full. I used to need to lug heavy files between my car and my destination and was almost always asked, sometimes by multiple parties along the route. It would almost always entail repeating if I was sure. Some would come very close to even taking the items out of my arms as I appeared to be struggling, not knowing that I had honed my skill to a fine art on how to carry said files.
I understand your frustration but from experience, I also understand it from the 'helper's' point of view. Ask and be damned. Don't ask and be judged callous. On occasion, I have been relieved to have been asked and gladly accepted it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"To be honest, simply being a small woman gets me this sort of offer. The number of times I've had men ask me if I need help and then hover to see if I'm managing isn't that unusual. Just let them be. They don't mean any harm by it and I'm glad we still have a society where people offer it. I don't begrudge them for it.
I think it is a little different when someone is offering to physically move you. Let’s take your example of being short. It’s like someone coming up behind you who you can’t see (as that’s what the OP described), not taking your initial “no” for answer, and then saying “oh I feel bad, I want to lift you up so you can reach”. Then hovering to see if you need them to life you in the air to reach whatever it is that’s too high. All the while you haven’t even seen their face. "
The gesture is to help, whether he thought it was to help convey me along or to reach for an item for me. I don't see the difference. If he were standing behind me offering to reach for an item I couldn't reach, would I need to look at him? That has happened to me before. I accepted the offer before I'd even looked at him. It has happened where I was climbing up too where someone offered me a hand, albeit I might've been able to do it on my own. |
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I don't think I'd have taken offence if I'm honest. They perhaps thought it was a good thing. Someone would be quick to criticise if they hadn't offered help.
As to the comment of they felt bad... I'd interpret that as them feeling bad that there offer had been seen as a bad thing. |
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"To be honest, simply being a small woman gets me this sort of offer. The number of times I've had men ask me if I need help and then hover to see if I'm managing isn't that unusual. Just let them be. They don't mean any harm by it and I'm glad we still have a society where people offer it. I don't begrudge them for it.
I think it is a little different when someone is offering to physically move you. Let’s take your example of being short. It’s like someone coming up behind you who you can’t see (as that’s what the OP described), not taking your initial “no” for answer, and then saying “oh I feel bad, I want to lift you up so you can reach”. Then hovering to see if you need them to life you in the air to reach whatever it is that’s too high. All the while you haven’t even seen their face.
The gesture is to help, whether he thought it was to help convey me along or to reach for an item for me. I don't see the difference. If he were standing behind me offering to reach for an item I couldn't reach, would I need to look at him? That has happened to me before. I accepted the offer before I'd even looked at him. It has happened where I was climbing up too where someone offered me a hand, albeit I might've been able to do it on my own."
In a wheelchair, people grab your chair from behind and physically move you in a different direction. Would you be okay with someone coming up behind you and physically picking you up and moving you? How do you know they'll put you down? Or not drop you? I've nearly been tipped out of my chair by well meaning "helpers" and on other occasions, have required the intervention of others to stop someone from pushing me away (one occasion involved a guy on Fab who had to step to make a d*unk guy "put me down" because he wasn't letting go of my chair). |
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By *indergirlWoman
over a year ago
somewhere, someplace |
I've learnt from my job where we see a fair few people with different abilities to ask and if help is refused to leave it be, I always say if you do need help just ask and let them get on, I'd never make someone feel bad for refusing my help  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"To be honest, simply being a small woman gets me this sort of offer. The number of times I've had men ask me if I need help and then hover to see if I'm managing isn't that unusual. Just let them be. They don't mean any harm by it and I'm glad we still have a society where people offer it. I don't begrudge them for it.
I think it is a little different when someone is offering to physically move you. Let’s take your example of being short. It’s like someone coming up behind you who you can’t see (as that’s what the OP described), not taking your initial “no” for answer, and then saying “oh I feel bad, I want to lift you up so you can reach”. Then hovering to see if you need them to life you in the air to reach whatever it is that’s too high. All the while you haven’t even seen their face. "
Your example used to happen to a friend of mine in clubs rather than shops. She is 4'11 and very slight. She also happens to be East Asian which I think is relevant to how she was treated. When out in clubs, men she didn't know would frequently swoop in and lift her her up and swing her around whilst crowing about how adorable and cute and tiny they found her. Often they grabbed her from behind so she couldn't see it was about to happen. I realise these men weren't imposing unwelcome assistance on her in the way Mrs KC has described, but the same blatant disregard for someone's autonomy and dignity which hides behind a facade of good intent is at play in both cases. |
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This has been very useful to me. It's made me look at things from a different perspective. While I'd never move a person either using a wheelchair or not I might not think before approaching someone from behind.
Do you prefer people to stand when they talk to you or lean or crouch? |
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"This has been very useful to me. It's made me look at things from a different perspective. While I'd never move a person either using a wheelchair or not I might not think before approaching someone from behind.
Do you prefer people to stand when they talk to you or lean or crouch? "
It's nice if people can find a chair, especially if it's more than a brief conversation. I am conscious of people crouching or bending down too much. I don't mind having differential height conversations (I did marry a man who's the best part of a foot taller than me!) but some disabled people might find it difficult to look up for a chat for long periods.
Everyone is different, so the best solution is to ask the individual. "Would it be better if I sat here to speak to you?" "Shall I crouch down or is it okay like this [one person standing, other sitting]?" |
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"This has been very useful to me. It's made me look at things from a different perspective. While I'd never move a person either using a wheelchair or not I might not think before approaching someone from behind.
Do you prefer people to stand when they talk to you or lean or crouch?
It's nice if people can find a chair, especially if it's more than a brief conversation. I am conscious of people crouching or bending down too much. I don't mind having differential height conversations (I did marry a man who's the best part of a foot taller than me!) but some disabled people might find it difficult to look up for a chat for long periods.
Everyone is different, so the best solution is to ask the individual. "Would it be better if I sat here to speak to you?" "Shall I crouch down or is it okay like this [one person standing, other sitting]?""
Ok, thanks |
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