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German Salutes
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Pretty sure you mean a Nazi Salute.
People in Germany still feel a tremendous sense of shame and guilt about WW2, despite the fact that their parents/grandparents werent even born yet during Nazi reign! As non-Germans, its really helpful if we can be careful about describing Nazi/facist behaviour as "German". Its not accurate and contributes to stigma against a whole nation. Its not fair that people who have never done anything wrong feel so inherently bad.
I have no comments about the football fans.
Smiles!
Fay  |
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From an English perspective - I don’t think that the Irish/Welsh/Scots fans Involve themselves in this behaviour - it is time to drop these songs & salutes that refer to a war that started more than 80 years ago. It’s disrespectful to the war dead on both sides. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Jailed obviously…
Also ‘German salutes’. If we’re all talking about the same thing it isn’t a ‘German’ salute is it. It’s called something quite specific and calling it the German thing is quite the implication.   |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Jailed.
It’s no fun for the Jews.
Exactly  "
Wasn't much fun for the people fighting either not just the Jews
It's a crime in Germany shame people haven't moved on |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Shame people are ignorant on the subject or won't remember either.
Having been twice to Auschwitz and seen and know of the atrocities to Jews and others, I find it despicable. I'm condemning the Saluters who are mocking the Germans. I hate discrimination in all it's forms . |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Der Deutsche Grub. The sieg heil salute.
Get offended by it and you imbue it with power and meaning again.
It’s a gesture by idiots who think associating themselves with other idiots who were dismantled on first contact with organised opposition is a sign of strength. It’s actually a sign of identifying with weakness.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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My granddad was in the 11th armoured division that liberated a camp.....he wouldn't talk about it much....but still could remember the smell.......he visited Germany again in the 1980s. Almost all of the Germans were embarrassed.. |
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By *landAnnCouple
over a year ago
Inverness |
"Der Deutsche Grub. The sieg heil salute.
Get offended by it and you imbue it with power and meaning again.
It’s a gesture by idiots who think associating themselves with other idiots who were dismantled on first contact with organised opposition is a sign of strength. It’s actually a sign of identifying with weakness.
"
_____
Jail them, short sharp shock, same as the arse*oles who sing sectarian songs etc, at Rangers-Celtic games.
14 days in jail, take it as 'holidays' from work so don't necessarily lose their job, but learn a swift lesson...
______ |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Some so called England football fans were arrested before last night's match by giving German salutes. Harmless fun or should they be jailed ?"
Yes, jail the morons! |
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"Der Deutsche Grub. The sieg heil salute.
Get offended by it and you imbue it with power and meaning again.
It’s a gesture by idiots who think associating themselves with other idiots who were dismantled on first contact with organised opposition is a sign of strength. It’s actually a sign of identifying with weakness.
_____
Jail them, short sharp shock, same as the arse*oles who sing sectarian songs etc, at Rangers-Celtic games.
14 days in jail, take it as 'holidays' from work so don't necessarily lose their job, but learn a swift lesson...
______"
Quite right, I'm a Celtic fan and I deplore the singing of sectarian songs. I won't go to a Celtic bar in Glasgow for that very reason. |
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Every team in the world has a certain amount of supporters that aren't just there to follow their team. There are even some supporters that will email the idiots of the other teams supporters just to arrange a fight after the match. Those are the real dickheads and they're the ones that should be put away and never allowed to get tickets for another match, not that it would stop them from going to fight with other supporters. |
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"Pretty sure you mean a Nazi Salute.
People in Germany still feel a tremendous sense of shame and guilt about WW2, despite the fact that their parents/grandparents werent even born yet during Nazi reign! As non-Germans, its really helpful if we can be careful about describing Nazi/facist behaviour as "German". Its not accurate and contributes to stigma against a whole nation. Its not fair that people who have never done anything wrong feel so inherently bad.
This. Definitely this.
I have no comments about the football fans.
Smiles!
Fay "
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It's a pity that they aren't helping to exhume the bodies of the slaughtered and abused victims in The Ukraine. It may help to let them realise some of the horrors that atrocious psychopaths and autocrats create. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Did only Nazis do the German salute or German citizens following their leader.. is everyone doing that salute a nazi?"
I've already pointed out it predates national socialism and is of roman orrigin. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Was every German a Nazi.. ?
But they all did the same salute "
No they didn't some German millitary units wouldn't allow it as it's not the correct greeting for an officer. |
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"What's going on here guys ?"
English fans misbehaving again in another country if they don’t behave on international games and club games in Europe kick them out of all competitions then maybe clubs and FA will do something meaningful instead of stupid banners and games behind closed doors because it obviously doesn’t work
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By *ssex_tom OP Man
over a year ago
Chelmsford |
"What's going on here guys ? English fans misbehaving again in another country if they don’t behave on international games and club games in Europe kick them out of all competitions then maybe clubs and FA will do something meaningful instead of stupid banners and games behind closed doors because it obviously doesn’t work "
Think that happened before and not cured it |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It was only half a dozen idiots before the game apparently"
Doesn't matter if it was one idiot. You're only as strong as your weakest link and dickheads like them are the reason English football fans are hated, even among English people who don't follow football.
They committed a crime, they should be punished and jailed accordingly. End of argument |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Some so called England football fans were arrested before last night's match by giving German salutes. Harmless fun or should they be jailed ?"
Why not call them what they really are? NAZI salutes. It's not as if every German is doing them, is it? |
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By *harpDressed ManMan
over a year ago
Here occasionally, but mostly somewhere else |
This is the same as the thieves getting jailed in Iraq from the other day, Tom.
Go to a country, obey their laws or suffer their punishments.
It's really not complicated. Wait until you see what they do to women who have sex in Dubai... |
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"This is the same as the thieves getting jailed in Iraq from the other day, Tom.
Go to a country, obey their laws or suffer their punishments.
It's really not complicated. Wait until you see what they do to women who have sex in Dubai..."
ANY woman that has sex? Are they all propagated in a different way then?  |
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By *harpDressed ManMan
over a year ago
Here occasionally, but mostly somewhere else |
"This is the same as the thieves getting jailed in Iraq from the other day, Tom.
Go to a country, obey their laws or suffer their punishments.
It's really not complicated. Wait until you see what they do to women who have sex in Dubai...
ANY woman that has sex? Are they all propagated in a different way then? "
You're right, that wasn't well put. I think I conflated the couple jailed for sex on the beach, and the general oppression of women (eg not allowed to drive).
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By *ssex_tom OP Man
over a year ago
Chelmsford |
"This is the same as the thieves getting jailed in Iraq from the other day, Tom.
Go to a country, obey their laws or suffer their punishments.
It's really not complicated. Wait until you see what they do to women who have sex in Dubai...
ANY woman that has sex? Are they all propagated in a different way then?
You're right, that wasn't well put. I think I conflated the couple jailed for sex on the beach, and the general oppression of women (eg not allowed to drive).
"
Just out of curiosity. Are there less accidents? |
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"This is the same as the thieves getting jailed in Iraq from the other day, Tom.
Go to a country, obey their laws or suffer their punishments.
It's really not complicated. Wait until you see what they do to women who have sex in Dubai...
ANY woman that has sex? Are they all propagated in a different way then?
You're right, that wasn't well put. I think I conflated the couple jailed for sex on the beach, and the general oppression of women (eg not allowed to drive).
"
Women can drive in the UAE. They can in Saudi now too (this is relatively recent). |
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Terrible behaviour, but much more shocking was the muslim gengtlmen at Oxford street when the jewish children leaving a Hanukkah party on a coach were terribly abused, death threats, spat at,nazi salutes and much worse and these things are as common if not more so but most of the press would rather ignore it and pretend it isnt happening and bang on about white supremacist or whateveranything but not the truth. x  |
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"Der Deutsche Grub. The sieg heil salute.
Get offended by it and you imbue it with power and meaning again.
It’s a gesture by idiots who think associating themselves with other idiots who were dismantled on first contact with organised opposition is a sign of strength. It’s actually a sign of identifying with weakness.
_____
Jail them, short sharp shock, same as the arse*oles who sing sectarian songs etc, at Rangers-Celtic games.
14 days in jail, take it as 'holidays' from work so don't necessarily lose their job, but learn a swift lesson...
______"
they could get a bit of a shock, in Bavaria eg where Munich is, you can be held, in prison, without charge, for upto 14 days. |
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"Ignorance is everywhere "
It probably always has been but we see it more probably through media also such behaviour at football grounds and any other loutish behaviour should warrant a lifetime ban from any football ground that should be made compulsory. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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As it’s illegal, and it was performed either in ignorance or in awareness of that fact, then yes the arrests were justified, because the law is the law.
The question of whether it should be illegal or not, however is a much bigger and scarier debate. In my opinion, a state or power that makes any speech or gesture illegal is no better than the degenerates doing the act. It becomes complicated of course, when the gesture itself has potential to incite hatred or violence and that’s a very grey area, as people have to be kept safe.
I think the gestures are disgusting and disrespectful, and I abhor the historical violence and persecution in WW2, but it’s their right to make those gestures and face the consequences.
Personally I’d rather have extremists, racists, fascists, mysoginists, sexists etc out in the open where they can be seen, heard, challenged and avoided, or potentially held to account rather than forcing them into holes, leading to much more sinister and violent outcomes like mass shootings and riots.
I’d take a short term bit of being offended and disgusted over something, rather than grief and horror at something more extreme any day of the week. |
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By *ssex_tom OP Man
over a year ago
Chelmsford |
"This is the same as the thieves getting jailed in Iraq from the other day, Tom.
Go to a country, obey their laws or suffer their punishments.
It's really not complicated. Wait until you see what they do to women who have sex in Dubai...
ANY woman that has sex? Are they all propagated in a different way then?
You're right, that wasn't well put. I think I conflated the couple jailed for sex on the beach, and the general oppression of women (eg not allowed to drive).
Women can drive in the UAE. They can in Saudi now too (this is relatively recent). "
Has this made the roads more dangerous ? |
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"As it’s illegal, and it was performed either in ignorance or in awareness of that fact, then yes the arrests were justified, because the law is the law.
The question of whether it should be illegal or not, however is a much bigger and scarier debate. In my opinion, a state or power that makes any speech or gesture illegal is no better than the degenerates doing the act. It becomes complicated of course, when the gesture itself has potential to incite hatred or violence and that’s a very grey area, as people have to be kept safe.
I think the gestures are disgusting and disrespectful, and I abhor the historical violence and persecution in WW2, but it’s their right to make those gestures and face the consequences.
Personally I’d rather have extremists, racists, fascists, mysoginists, sexists etc out in the open where they can be seen, heard, challenged and avoided, or potentially held to account rather than forcing them into holes, leading to much more sinister and violent outcomes like mass shootings and riots.
I’d take a short term bit of being offended and disgusted over something, rather than grief and horror at something more extreme any day of the week."
how to say “i dont understand why making nazi salutes etc is a criminal offence in germany”
without actually saying “i dont understand why making nazi salutes etc is a criminal offence in germany”!
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"As it’s illegal, and it was performed either in ignorance or in awareness of that fact, then yes the arrests were justified, because the law is the law.
The question of whether it should be illegal or not, however is a much bigger and scarier debate. In my opinion, a state or power that makes any speech or gesture illegal is no better than the degenerates doing the act. It becomes complicated of course, when the gesture itself has potential to incite hatred or violence and that’s a very grey area, as people have to be kept safe.
I think the gestures are disgusting and disrespectful, and I abhor the historical violence and persecution in WW2, but it’s their right to make those gestures and face the consequences.
Personally I’d rather have extremists, racists, fascists, mysoginists, sexists etc out in the open where they can be seen, heard, challenged and avoided, or potentially held to account rather than forcing them into holes, leading to much more sinister and violent outcomes like mass shootings and riots.
I’d take a short term bit of being offended and disgusted over something, rather than grief and horror at something more extreme any day of the week.
how to say “i dont understand why making nazi salutes etc is a criminal offence in germany”
without actually saying “i dont understand why making nazi salutes etc is a criminal offence in germany”!
"
Not in Israel though. A bunch of neo nazis were caught murdering and attacking people there a few years back. Complete with white power tattoos.
Them there's them cheaky Azov lot, right sector and them others i cant remember.
That nutter that runs the wagner group. That are not russian and dont exist.
It's rife in Eastern europe. |
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By *harpDressed ManMan
over a year ago
Here occasionally, but mostly somewhere else |
"Against the law in Germany - jail - in Germany - see how clever they feel after 3 years - twats
My honest belief..
That punishment would not fit the crime.. "
Maybe some research into why Germany as a country felt the need to eradicate some behaviours in the mid-later 1940s? |
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By *ssex_tom OP Man
over a year ago
Chelmsford |
"Against the law in Germany - jail - in Germany - see how clever they feel after 3 years - twats
My honest belief..
That punishment would not fit the crime..
Maybe some research into why Germany as a country felt the need to eradicate some behaviours in the mid-later 1940s?"
That may help you.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"You mean the NAZI salute. It's done by ignorant people who probably have no idea of the suffering caused by the NAZIs. Shame on them
Actually a Roman salute, or fascist salute. "
Whatever |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I would deport these buggers and seize their passports for 5 years
You would deport British Citizens? Where to?"
Well Australia is kinda traditional but i think they'd kick off about it now. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I would deport these buggers and seize their passports for 5 years
You would deport British Citizens? Where to?
Well Australia is kinda traditional but i think they'd kick off about it now. "
The send us their sex offenders these days. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I would deport these buggers and seize their passports for 5 years
You would deport British Citizens? Where to?
Well Australia is kinda traditional but i think they'd kick off about it now.
The send us their sex offenders these days."
It's ok we send them to Stafford |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"What nationality are these so called England supporters..
Are they Northerners ?
Define Northerners.
North of the Watford Gap..
Brown ale, pidgeons and flat caps "
Those are Southeners. |
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By *ssex_tom OP Man
over a year ago
Chelmsford |
"What nationality are these so called England supporters..
Are they Northerners ?
Define Northerners.
North of the Watford Gap..
Brown ale, pidgeons and flat caps
Those are Southeners."
They are northerns... They keep pidgeons |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"What nationality are these so called England supporters..
Are they Northerners ?
Define Northerners.
North of the Watford Gap..
Brown ale, pidgeons and flat caps
Those are Southeners.
They are northerns... They keep pidgeons "
My map and compass say they are southeners. |
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By *harpDressed ManMan
over a year ago
Here occasionally, but mostly somewhere else |
"What nationality are these so called England supporters..
Are they Northerners ?"
Usually mockneys and midlanders in my experience.
You can usually tell by the team names plastered across the flags... wolves, Walsall, Chelsea... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"What nationality are these so called England supporters..
Are they Northerners ?
Well regardless of the region their nationality is still English "
Or maybe British as the nation is Great Britain or the UK and the country is England. |
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"Jailed obviously…
Also ‘German salutes’. If we’re all talking about the same thing it isn’t a ‘German’ salute is it. It’s called something quite specific and calling it the German thing is quite the implication. "
The Nazi salute or Hitler salute (German: Hitlergruß – literally Hitler Greeting) is a gesture that was used as a greeting in Nazi Germany. The salute is performed by extending the right arm in the air with a straightened hand. Usually, the person offering the salute would say “Heil Hitler!“ (Hail Hitler!), “Heil, mein Führer!“ (Hail, my leader!), or “Sieg heil!“ (Hail victory!). It was adopted in the 1930s by the Nazi Party to signal obedience to the party’s leader – Adolf Hitler – and to glorify the German nation.The salute was mandatory for civilians but mostly optional for military personnel, who retained the traditional military salute until shortly after the failed assassination attempt on Hitler in 1944.
The salute was performed by extending the right arm to at least eye level, and straightening the hand so that it is parallel to the arm. Usually, an utterance of “Heil Hitler!“, or “Heil!“ accompanied the gesture.
If one saw an acquaintance at a distance, it sufficed to simply raise the right hand. If one encountered a superior, one would also say “Heil Hitler“. If physical disability prevented raising the right arm, it was acceptable to raise the left. The form “Heil, mein Führer!“ was for direct address to Hitler. “Sieg Heil“ was repeated as a chant on public occasions Written communications would be concluded with either mit deutschem Gruß (“with German regards”), or with “Heil Hitler“ In correspondence with high-ranking Nazi officials, letters were usually signed with “Heil Hitler“.
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"Some so called England football fans were arrested before last night's match by giving German salutes. Harmless fun or should they be jailed ?"
They’re actually Roman salutes.
Never confuse the Nazis with the Germans, especially as they are now. |
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"Some so called England football fans were arrested before last night's match by giving German salutes. Harmless fun or should they be jailed ?
They’re actually Roman salutes.
Never confuse the Nazis with the Germans, especially as they are now. "
Spot On They Are !
The salute gesture is widely believed to be based on an ancient Roman custom. However, no surviving Roman work of art depicts it, nor does any extant Roman text describe it. Jacques-Louis David’s painting Oath of the Horatii (1784) seems to be the starting point for the gesture that became known as the Roman salute. The gesture and its identification with ancient Rome was advanced in other French neoclassic ar |
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