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Punishment Fitting the Crime
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By *ssex_tom OP Man
over a year ago
Chelmsford |
An amateur archeologist has admitted taking about a dozen shards of pottery, ceramic and stones from Iraq. Reports say he did not know he was breaking the law. Taking artefacts out of the country can be the death sentence in Iraq but this gentleman has got 15 years and he is quite elderly. The foreign office say they don't get involved in sentences but oppose the death penalty. Are we conditioned by our own light sentencing. People in the UK have had a shorter sentence for murder. |
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Amateur archaeologists usually do know the law and if they don't acquaint themselves with the law in other countries they're remiss.
I think 15 years is excessive by our country's and my own standards though.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Its old news, read this two weeks ago!
Come up with something new and original  "
He's only got sentenced Monday, you can't have read that two weeks ago.
If a thread displeases you, then don't read it. |
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"Its old news, read this two weeks ago!
Come up with something new and original
He's only got sentenced Monday, you can't have read that two weeks ago.
If a thread displeases you, then don't read it."
If sentenced on Monday then the arrest was obviously a while ago....?
Article I read said he "could" face death sentence, so to me its old news x.
If a post displeases you then dont read it.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Its old news, read this two weeks ago!
Come up with something new and original "
If you’ve got nothing to add, there is literally dozens and dozens of other posts you can have a moan in. Lol. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"An amateur archeologist has admitted taking about a dozen shards of pottery, ceramic and stones from Iraq. Reports say he did not know he was breaking the law. Taking artefacts out of the country can be the death sentence in Iraq but this gentleman has got 15 years and he is quite elderly. The foreign office say they don't get involved in sentences but oppose the death penalty. Are we conditioned by our own light sentencing. People in the UK have had a shorter sentence for murder. "
I agree with the other poster, this guy knew what he was doing. If the Brits are anything like what they did or perhaps didn’t do when that Radcliffe lady got imprisoned in Iran, he’ll pretty much rot in jail. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Its old news, read this two weeks ago!
Come up with something new and original
He's only got sentenced Monday, you can't have read that two weeks ago.
If a thread displeases you, then don't read it.
If sentenced on Monday then the arrest was obviously a while ago....?
Article I read said he "could" face death sentence, so to me its old news x.
If a post displeases you then dont read it. "
They could have been psychic  |
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Imagine someone from Iraq coming over here and digging up some of our heritage and then waltzing off back home with it. Couple that with the fact that is British have been (in the past) quite keen little souls on removing other peoples culture to display in our museums.
I should imagine Iraq and many other countries are a little fed up with it all now, especially when it’s citizens from old empire countries.
Ignorance of the law is no defence and the harshness of the sentence probably reflects the historic robbery of a cultures heritage. Maybe if we had more severe sentences in this country, people would think twice before breaking the law and taking things that don’t belong to them. |
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These people usually know the rules are and what the risks are when they are trying to remove artifacts from another country, if they are prepared to try it then they deserve the consequences.
We here in the UK, the legal system of sentencing is a joke, there is no deterant as the majority of sentences are extremely lenient in respect of the crime committed and are generally out after about half their term has been served, make them serve it all and send out a message to everyone that you will be doing a long time in prison for your crime. |
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"Imagine someone from Iraq coming over here and digging up some of our heritage and then waltzing off back home with it. Couple that with the fact that is British have been (in the past) quite keen little souls on removing other peoples culture to display in our museums.
I should imagine Iraq and many other countries are a little fed up with it all now, especially when it’s citizens from old empire countries.
Ignorance of the law is no defence and the harshness of the sentence probably reflects the historic robbery of a cultures heritage. Maybe if we had more severe sentences in this country, people would think twice before breaking the law and taking things that don’t belong to them. "
He also from what I've read asked his codefendant who was acquired, to carry some items for him. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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It depends really what the purpose of the sentence is.
Do we send people to prison to punish them, to make them suffer or to act as a deterrent to others. Theft of artifacts from countries like Iraq is a massive business and can make huge sums of money. If you can sell a Babylonian artifact for 10's of thousands and only face a 6 month sentence if caught then you have a gamble many will take. Iraq can't do a lot to lessen the value of stolen artifacts so all it can do is increase the deterrent.
There is absolutely no way someone could aquire the knowledge and experience necessary to understand what artifacts are worth stealing without also learning the illegality and likely outcome if caught. Is the sentence harsh? Sure it is but he knew what would happen.
The world is full of gross injustice and suffering, a thief paying the price for his crimes isn't going to see me loose sleep.
Mr |
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By *ssex_tom OP Man
over a year ago
Chelmsford |
I love walking around ancient sites in Cyprus and you can literally pick pieces up but not right to take them away. A small piece of pottery might be the final piece in the jigsaw for the professionals.
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"Playing devils avocado…
The British Museum is filled with stolen artefacts. Isn’t it time to return those stolen items. "
Yes. Unless they have been lent or purchased legitimately, bit of a no brained if you ask me. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Playing devils avocado…
The British Museum is filled with stolen artefacts. Isn’t it time to return those stolen items.
Yes. Unless they have been lent or purchased legitimately, bit of a no brained if you ask me. "
The British Empire rarely purchased the things, or people it wanted. I think stealing is the appropriate description. |
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I guess if your in another country it’s probably best to engage your brain, i when I pass through customs always check what I can and can’t take through. Then it’s a case of taking a chance, which I am sure is what this chap did. Unfortunately he got busted it’s a disproportionate sentence in my opinion but they do much worse in that part of the world for trivial things. |
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"Playing devils avocado…
The British Museum is filled with stolen artefacts. Isn’t it time to return those stolen items.
Yes. Unless they have been lent or purchased legitimately, bit of a no brained if you ask me.
The British Empire rarely purchased the things, or people it wanted. I think stealing is the appropriate description. "
This was all put a stop too once Egypt realised what was happening with the opening of tombs etc, anything that was taken out of the countries before rules were made are probably void to such rules dnd regulations, same as for trading in ivory etc, if you can prove the provenance before a certain date you can still trade in it |
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By *rHotNottsMan
over a year ago
Dubai & Nottingham |
I wouldn’t try it Iraq but in general I take things in my hand luggage and have a few dollars ready. Anything coming into U.K.in the hold is scanned and solid items like stones, silver blocks are confiscated but hand luggage isn’t |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I guess if your in another country it’s probably best to engage your brain, i when I pass through customs always check what I can and can’t take through. Then it’s a case of taking a chance, which I am sure is what this chap did. Unfortunately he got busted it’s a disproportionate sentence in my opinion but they do much worse in that part of the world for trivial things. "
The guy clearly knew what he was doing. Artefacts are pieces of history . What is a country without its history. I understand you see it as nothing much. I’m unsure if we (Brits) would be sympathetic to a tourist chose to steal something of historical value to us . |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Playing devils avocado…
The British Museum is filled with stolen artefacts. Isn’t it time to return those stolen items.
Yes. Unless they have been lent or purchased legitimately, bit of a no brained if you ask me.
The British Empire rarely purchased the things, or people it wanted. I think stealing is the appropriate description.
This was all put a stop too once Egypt realised what was happening with the opening of tombs etc, anything that was taken out of the countries before rules were made are probably void to such rules dnd regulations, same as for trading in ivory etc, if you can prove the provenance before a certain date you can still trade in it "
I think the trading of ivory isn’t the same as stealing historical ancient artefacts. But I understand the sentiments. Those countries owned by the British Empire didn’t have a choice. It was stolen. Anyone stopping it would have been killed or imprisoned.
Artefacts are found right across the world and not simply in Egypt. The Greeks have been demanding the return of the Elgin Marbles for decades to death ears.
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He is an archaeologist and as others have said he would have known the law. I for one would be extremely careful about not contravening local laws even in a country that’s as easy going tolerant and carefree as Iraq!! |
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"Amateur archaeologists usually do know the law and if they don't acquaint themselves with the law in other countries they're remiss.
I think 15 years is excessive by our country's and my own standards though.
"
15 years is excessive by the standards of almost all countries. The reason penalties are set that high is tj act as a complete deterrent, like con tires that carry the death penalty for smuggling drugs. Sad case, but hard to imagine how he did not know the rules |
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"Amateur archaeologists usually do know the law and if they don't acquaint themselves with the law in other countries they're remiss.
I think 15 years is excessive by our country's and my own standards though.
15 years is excessive by the standards of almost all countries. The reason penalties are set that high is tj act as a complete deterrent, like con tires that carry the death penalty for smuggling drugs. Sad case, but hard to imagine how he did not know the rules "
Obviously I wasn't there and don't know the full details but if it's true that he asked someone else to carry some of the things through for him implies to me that he was either concerned about weight of his luggage or... |
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"An amateur archeologist has admitted taking about a dozen shards of pottery, ceramic and stones from Iraq. Reports say he did not know he was breaking the law. Taking artefacts out of the country can be the death sentence in Iraq but this gentleman has got 15 years and he is quite elderly. The foreign office say they don't get involved in sentences but oppose the death penalty. Are we conditioned by our own light sentencing. People in the UK have had a shorter sentence for murder. "
He could have just bought them some new plates to replace the ones he stole, and said sorry? |
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"I'm just listening to an interview with this man's son in law. He puts a different spin on things.
What was the different spin? "
He was accompanied by an Iraqi tour guide and a police officer apparently and genuinely didn't know what he was doing was wrong or even what he was picking up.
Make of it what you will
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"Playing devils avocado…
The British Museum is filled with stolen artefacts. Isn’t it time to return those stolen items.
Yes. Unless they have been lent or purchased legitimately, bit of a no brained if you ask me.
The British Empire rarely purchased the things, or people it wanted. I think stealing is the appropriate description.
This was all put a stop too once Egypt realised what was happening with the opening of tombs etc, anything that was taken out of the countries before rules were made are probably void to such rules dnd regulations, same as for trading in ivory etc, if you can prove the provenance before a certain date you can still trade in it
I think the trading of ivory isn’t the same as stealing historical ancient artefacts. But I understand the sentiments. Those countries owned by the British Empire didn’t have a choice. It was stolen. Anyone stopping it would have been killed or imprisoned.
Artefacts are found right across the world and not simply in Egypt. The Greeks have been demanding the return of the Elgin Marbles for decades to death ears.
"
Yes, I just used Egypt as a sample of how countries tried to stop the trade in their artifacts  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Sentences is the UK are a joke.
Sex offenders get suspended sentences while people having recreational drugs for personal use get jail time. How is that fair? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Anyone who visits a country must know its rules and follow it. Same applies for people visiting UK too.
Also agree with other posters that sentencing in UK is a joke. Violent offenders getting off on reduced sentences while the victims have to live with the consequences, if they are even alive that is. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Now sentence the royals for all the stolen artiricats they're hoarding. "
The Royal members didn’t actually take them or start digging did they , items were handed to them  |
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By *harpDressed ManMan
over a year ago
Here occasionally, but mostly somewhere else |
"An amateur archeologist has admitted taking about a dozen shards of pottery, ceramic and stones from Iraq. Reports say he did not know he was breaking the law. Taking artefacts out of the country can be the death sentence in Iraq but this gentleman has got 15 years and he is quite elderly. The foreign office say they don't get involved in sentences but oppose the death penalty. Are we conditioned by our own light sentencing. People in the UK have had a shorter sentence for murder. "
You can't compare it with the murder sentence in the UK.
Well, you shouldn't.
What's the penalty for murder in Iraq? That's your comparator... |
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By *prilSubTV/TS
over a year ago
Nottingham |
"Now sentence the royals for all the stolen artiricats they're hoarding.
The Royal members didn’t actually take them or start digging did they , items were handed to them "
Do you think colonialism is where all the other countries give their valuables to Britain because they love us so much? Wow |
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