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Cultural lament
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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I recently posted on an ongoing thread that the OP should be using terms we use in this country as opposed to American terms(arse v ass). A couple of people on the Forum suggested that things are more global. They may have a point and I could be a set in my ways dinosaur. So two things for people to potentially dig me out for, one was making the observation about someone’s use of language in the first place, secondly my attitude towards language. Which was my most heinous faux pas? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Language evolves, it changes, it’s never going to stay the same. I’m learning Latin and it’s so different to our language nowadays that native Latin speakers from hundreds of years ago would look at us with nothing but confusion. The world is becoming more Americanised through social media, tv programs, news articles etc…anthropological linguists will tell you that our language is constantly evolving.
I think a lot of people now just use the Americanised language to simplify things |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"The Americanisation of the English language is frustrating in my view. But, it feels a little weird to say “arse”, almost old fashioned. But I prefer it. Who doesn’t love a bit of arse… "
Or bum, that feels more appropriate in sex talk terms if making an observation about a man or woman’s backside |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I prefer english english as opposed to americanised english, even when spelling. Language does evolve though and I do like some of the phrases added to the english language. Then again i have a diverse cultural background so dont always speak english.  |
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"I recently posted on an ongoing thread that the OP should be using terms we use in this country as opposed to American terms(arse v ass). A couple of people on the Forum suggested that things are more global. They may have a point and I could be a set in my ways dinosaur. So two things for people to potentially dig me out for, one was making the observation about someone’s use of language in the first place, secondly my attitude towards language. Which was my most heinous faux pas?"
Guilty on both counts? Once while I was writing down a customer's phone number he berated me for crossing my sevens - he said I don't have to do that, it is German.
I will stick to "butt"! |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Language evolves, it changes, it’s never going to stay the same. I’m learning Latin and it’s so different to our language nowadays that native Latin speakers from hundreds of years ago would look at us with nothing but confusion. The world is becoming more Americanised through social media, tv programs, news articles etc…anthropological linguists will tell you that our language is constantly evolving.
I think a lot of people now just use the Americanised language to simplify things"
And therein lies the danger I think, other cultures will concede ground and eventually you end up with something close to a mono culture, which seems dull on the surface |
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It's certainly not something that would bother me enough to comment on other people's uses of the words.
I've pretty much used both since I was a teenager though ass usually more in reference to a person behaving poorly and arse for actually buttocks . |
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OP as someone American that has lived in England for a long time I do not have a problem with the use of either language.
Having said that, I despair at the poor use of any English. And that is a continually growing phenomenon.
The population at large appears to no longer care about spelling or grammar.
And if anyone mentions it, we are accused of being "grammar police".
Being intelligent in the UK is frowned upon. As are most positive achievements. Knocking things is a collective hobby particularly rampant in the UK  |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"OP as someone American that has lived in England for a long time I do not have a problem with the use of either language.
Having said that, I despair at the poor use of any English. And that is a continually growing phenomenon.
The population at large appears to no longer care about spelling or grammar.
And if anyone mentions it, we are accused of being "grammar police".
Being intelligent in the UK is frowned upon. As are most positive achievements. Knocking things is a collective hobby particularly rampant in the UK "
I agree grammar is taking a knock at present, I think texting and social media have contributed to that |
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By *etcplCouple
over a year ago
Gapping Fanny |
"Which was my most heinous faux pas?"
Your biggest faux pas was correcting someone when you knew what was being said or meant.
I use americanisms quite a lot, and have valid reasons for doing so, and anyone correcting me is likely to be told to fuck off
 |
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"It's certainly not something that would bother me enough to comment on other people's uses of the words.
I've pretty much used both since I was a teenager though ass usually more in reference to a person behaving poorly and arse for actually buttocks . "
Ass is used for behaving poorly as it relates to “donkey” I believe, not 100% sure. Actually, probably entirely wrong. |
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"Which was my most heinous faux pas?
Your biggest faux pas was correcting someone when you knew what was being said or meant.
I use americanisms quite a lot, and have valid reasons for doing so, and anyone correcting me is likely to be told to fuck off
"
Desperate to correct you so you can tell me to fuck off! |
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According to some quick Google research, words that were Americanisms that we have since adopted regularly over here include - lengthy, calculate, placate, spook, depot, antagonise (though of course originally spelt antagonize), anyway, nervous, realise, reckon, transpire and soft drink. The phrase "ballpark figure" is also a baseball reference. The things you learn! |
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By *etcplCouple
over a year ago
Gapping Fanny |
"Which was my most heinous faux pas?
Your biggest faux pas was correcting someone when you knew what was being said or meant.
I use americanisms quite a lot, and have valid reasons for doing so, and anyone correcting me is likely to be told to fuck off
Desperate to correct you so you can tell me to fuck off! "
Please do, then tell someone who really cares and fuck off |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Which was my most heinous faux pas?
Your biggest faux pas was correcting someone when you knew what was being said or meant.
I use americanisms quite a lot, and have valid reasons for doing so, and anyone correcting me is likely to be told to fuck off
"
Thank you for the observation |
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"Which was my most heinous faux pas?
Your biggest faux pas was correcting someone when you knew what was being said or meant.
I use americanisms quite a lot, and have valid reasons for doing so, and anyone correcting me is likely to be told to fuck off
Desperate to correct you so you can tell me to fuck off!
Please do, then tell someone who really cares and fuck off "
Somebody is touchy today. Liverpool supporter I assume… |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Which was my most heinous faux pas?
Your biggest faux pas was correcting someone when you knew what was being said or meant.
I use americanisms quite a lot, and have valid reasons for doing so, and anyone correcting me is likely to be told to fuck off
Desperate to correct you so you can tell me to fuck off!
Please do, then tell someone who really cares and fuck off "
Just to confirm, my observation was on their choice of term. I don’t know what reasons they would choose to use American terms, however, you suggested valid reasons for yourself. May I politely ask what they are? |
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I have no real preference what language people use and certainly wouldn't pull them up for using an Americanised phrase instead of using what used to be the norm/English phrasing.
People have grown up listening to American music and films and TV, YouTube.
There is going to be a more shared culture. We have to accept that. Which could end up being a positive rather than a negative. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I have no real preference what language people use and certainly wouldn't pull them up for using an Americanised phrase instead of using what used to be the norm/English phrasing.
People have grown up listening to American music and films and TV, YouTube.
There is going to be a more shared culture. We have to accept that. Which could end up being a positive rather than a negative. "
Of course there are benefits to sharing culture but I fear a loss of something from other cultures as they give way to a global culture. For instance, the Cockney culture is dying out and soon rhyme and slang will be gone in a generation or two |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Are Frenchisms acceptable?
In Paris absolutely, in the country of Lord Nelson? Probably not
So using faux pas would be a... language fuax pas? "
It would be a fine example of it, had I used that term it would make me a hypocrite…….oh bugger! |
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On a lighter note, we once replied to a man on here who had texted us. We asked him how long he’d lived here in the UK for and where in America did he originate from?
He sent a sarcastic reply.
We replied, when your only form of communication was texting and we couldn’t hear a voice to establish an accent, we assumed he was American due to his spelling.
Just saying! |
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I love when people complain about the 'new' Americanism, when most of the time the Americanism is older than the English form. Actually English, as spoken in the US is closer to Elizabethan English than British English, its often us who've changed, not them  not that there's anything wrong with change. The adaptability of the English language is one of its strengths.
When Webster produced his American dictionary, he did try to rationalise some spellings where both we and our American cousins had drastically changed the pronunciation, really the jury is out on whether that was sensible or not, but spelling was never really formalised until recently so hey ho.
I do quite like where 'mistakes' have been made on both sides. The origin of the American pronunciation of lieutenant is one of my favourite. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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" On a lighter note, we once replied to a man on here who had texted us. We asked him how long he’d lived here in the UK for and where in America did he originate from?
He sent a sarcastic reply.
We replied, when your only form of communication was texting and we couldn’t hear a voice to establish an accent, we assumed he was American due to his spelling.
Just saying!"
That has made me chuckle. |
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By *tooveMan
over a year ago
belfast |
"Language evolves, it changes, it’s never going to stay the same. I’m learning Latin and it’s so different to our language nowadays that native Latin speakers from hundreds of years ago would look at us with nothing but confusion. The world is becoming more Americanised through social media, tv programs, news articles etc…anthropological linguists will tell you that our language is constantly evolving.
I think a lot of people now just use the Americanised language to simplify things"
Are you learning written or spoken Latin? It's really giii. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I love when people complain about the 'new' Americanism, when most of the time the Americanism is older than the English form. Actually English, as spoken in the US is closer to Elizabethan English than British English, its often us who've changed, not them not that there's anything wrong with change. The adaptability of the English language is one of its strengths.
When Webster produced his American dictionary, he did try to rationalise some spellings where both we and our American cousins had drastically changed the pronunciation, really the jury is out on whether that was sensible or not, but spelling was never really formalised until recently so hey ho.
I do quite like where 'mistakes' have been made on both sides. The origin of the American pronunciation of lieutenant is one of my favourite. "
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"I love when people complain about the 'new' Americanism, when most of the time the Americanism is older than the English form. Actually English, as spoken in the US is closer to Elizabethan English than British English, its often us who've changed, not them not that there's anything wrong with change. The adaptability of the English language is one of its strengths.
When Webster produced his American dictionary, he did try to rationalise some spellings where both we and our American cousins had drastically changed the pronunciation, really the jury is out on whether that was sensible or not, but spelling was never really formalised until recently so hey ho.
I do quite like where 'mistakes' have been made on both sides. The origin of the American pronunciation of lieutenant is one of my favourite. "
I like you, you're smart |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I agree grammar is taking a knock at present, I think texting and social media have contributed to that
And a very poor education system sadly."
Indeed Kinky, indeed. |
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"I recently posted on an ongoing thread that the OP should be using terms we use in this country as opposed to American terms(arse v ass). A couple of people on the Forum suggested that things are more global. They may have a point and I could be a set in my ways dinosaur. So two things for people to potentially dig me out for, one was making the observation about someone’s use of language in the first place, secondly my attitude towards language. Which was my most heinous faux pas?"
I'm with you mate. Prefer to keep away from Americanisms |
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"I have no real preference what language people use and certainly wouldn't pull them up for using an Americanised phrase instead of using what used to be the norm/English phrasing.
People have grown up listening to American music and films and TV, YouTube.
There is going to be a more shared culture. We have to accept that. Which could end up being a positive rather than a negative.
Of course there are benefits to sharing culture but I fear a loss of something from other cultures as they give way to a global culture. For instance, the Cockney culture is dying out and soon rhyme and slang will be gone in a generation or two"
It's just moved to Essex! As multicultural immigrants moved into London.
But things change, we no longer talk like, "where art thou" so rhyming slang will disappear, as how we talk now will also disappear.
You can't halt time and progress. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I recently posted on an ongoing thread that the OP should be using terms we use in this country as opposed to American terms(arse v ass). A couple of people on the Forum suggested that things are more global. They may have a point and I could be a set in my ways dinosaur. So two things for people to potentially dig me out for, one was making the observation about someone’s use of language in the first place, secondly my attitude towards language. Which was my most heinous faux pas?
I'm with you mate. Prefer to keep away from Americanisms"
Cheers Steve |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I have no real preference what language people use and certainly wouldn't pull them up for using an Americanised phrase instead of using what used to be the norm/English phrasing.
People have grown up listening to American music and films and TV, YouTube.
There is going to be a more shared culture. We have to accept that. Which could end up being a positive rather than a negative.
Of course there are benefits to sharing culture but I fear a loss of something from other cultures as they give way to a global culture. For instance, the Cockney culture is dying out and soon rhyme and slang will be gone in a generation or two
It's just moved to Essex! As multicultural immigrants moved into London.
But things change, we no longer talk like, "where art thou" so rhyming slang will disappear, as how we talk now will also disappear.
You can't halt time and progress. "
So it appears. I’m hanging on to my culture for dear life and hope to pass on the Cockney way of talking to my daughter. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Netflix is mostly American and things are evolving ans my partner is American and there are alot of people from everywhere now living here. I LOVE IT. Celebrate difference and Ass is better than arse anyway! :- |
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I deal mostly for American audience/peers with work stuff over last 13 years so.i am pretty much on autopilot with American terms
for me I find some of the English terms just really dumb sounding now or just not correct ... though I really give zero fucks about a slant people talk with ... everyone is different ...
if people are getting bent and stressed over simple difference in speech , then all I can say is they must be having a very chill life elsewhere |
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On one particular aspect I have already made the shift I'm afraid. Perhaps down to spending much of my 30's and 40's chatting on irc with American brats (you know if you know), I do tend to use the word ass rather than arse |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Netflix is mostly American and things are evolving ans my partner is American and there are alot of people from everywhere now living here. I LOVE IT. Celebrate difference and Ass is better than arse anyway! :- "
You are entitled to your opinion, I can’t say fairer than that |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Let's not forget Americans came from here...1776 in case you missed that lesson about Tea and that party just saying. Side note worse things have happened in the last two years. Change is here to stay..Americanisms too |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Arse just reminds me of some posh bike being annoyed at something
You utter arse.
I just can't say it in a sexual way. As sounds better
Fuck my ass sir, cum in my ass   "
I prefer bum in that instance |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Let's not forget Americans came from here...1776 in case you missed that lesson about Tea and that party just saying. Side note worse things have happened in the last two years. Change is here to stay..Americanisms too "
I’m fully aware of the Colonists chucking the tea in Boston Harbour, blasted ingrates. Yes worse has happened in the last 2 years and I alone cannot repel the tide of change but this will be one corner of England that shall remain very English. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Personally, I couldn't give a monkeys about culture or hanging on to it. All culture is invented and constantly changing, anyone who talks about the alleged culture of any particular group of people simply isn't aware of how these things change. What is Brutish culture? The language we use, the expressions, the sports, the hobbies, the food come from all over the globe and from all different times in history.
We all want to feel like we belong and the place we belong in is some unchanging ideal but the reality is the world we live in now is totally different to the one we were born in. As teenagers we all added to cultural changes that our parents whinged about just as vehemently as we moan about the ones we see now.
Finally, culture is a way of dividing people, separating us into different groups. It gives us a means of assessing the value of a person (however much we deny this to ourselves) and for this reason I despise it.
I have no more objection to the term ass instead of arse than I do to calling a bread roll a baguette.
Mr |
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"Are Frenchisms acceptable?
In Paris absolutely, in the country of Lord Nelson? Probably not
So using faux pas would be a... language fuax pas?
It would be a fine example of it, had I used that term it would make me a hypocrite…….oh bugger!"
 |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Personally, I couldn't give a monkeys about culture or hanging on to it. All culture is invented and constantly changing, anyone who talks about the alleged culture of any particular group of people simply isn't aware of how these things change. What is Brutish culture? The language we use, the expressions, the sports, the hobbies, the food come from all over the globe and from all different times in history.
We all want to feel like we belong and the place we belong in is some unchanging ideal but the reality is the world we live in now is totally different to the one we were born in. As teenagers we all added to cultural changes that our parents whinged about just as vehemently as we moan about the ones we see now.
Finally, culture is a way of dividing people, separating us into different groups. It gives us a means of assessing the value of a person (however much we deny this to ourselves) and for this reason I despise it.
I have no more objection to the term ass instead of arse than I do to calling a bread roll a baguette.
Mr"
It did make me wonder what terms I used as a kid that might have irritated elders, but I couldn’t think of any. It may well be we lacked the global exposure. Culture can cause differences but I put that down to personal characteristics. My best friend is an Algerian Muslim brought up in France, I’m a Protestant Englishman brought up in South London. We get on brilliantly despite the differences in culture, we find common ground elsewhere |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
It did make me wonder what terms I used as a kid that might have irritated elders, but I couldn’t think of any. It may well be we lacked the global exposure. Culture can cause differences but I put that down to personal characteristics. My best friend is an Algerian Muslim brought up in France, I’m a Protestant Englishman brought up in South London. We get on brilliantly despite the differences in culture, we find common ground elsewhere "
Don't get me wrong, I don't believe all cultural differences result in war, there will obviously be huge areas of common ground given we are all human but the very fact we have to find that common ground despite our cultural differences simply illustrates the point that culture places a barrier between people. It most certainly isn't a barrier that cannot be overcome but it *is* the foundation of ideas that have been used time and again to justify the worst crimes in human history.
I understand that cultures will always form and change and morph from one thing into another, I certainly don't advocate working towards a single global culture. What I do argue against is the promotion of one culture in preference to another or preserving a culture from change simply on the grounds it is what a person likes. I'll happily discuss the destruction of a culture that, for example, promotes FGM but have not the slightest interest in arguing that we should use ass not arse or cob not bun or whatever.
Mr |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Language evolves, it changes, it’s never going to stay the same. I’m learning Latin and it’s so different to our language nowadays that native Latin speakers from hundreds of years ago would look at us with nothing but confusion. The world is becoming more Americanised through social media, tv programs, news articles etc…anthropological linguists will tell you that our language is constantly evolving.
I think a lot of people now just use the Americanised language to simplify things
Are you learning written or spoken Latin? It's really giii."
Both; I think? I’m semi-fluent in French so I’m working on that alongside this Latin |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"
It did make me wonder what terms I used as a kid that might have irritated elders, but I couldn’t think of any. It may well be we lacked the global exposure. Culture can cause differences but I put that down to personal characteristics. My best friend is an Algerian Muslim brought up in France, I’m a Protestant Englishman brought up in South London. We get on brilliantly despite the differences in culture, we find common ground elsewhere
Don't get me wrong, I don't believe all cultural differences result in war, there will obviously be huge areas of common ground given we are all human but the very fact we have to find that common ground despite our cultural differences simply illustrates the point that culture places a barrier between people. It most certainly isn't a barrier that cannot be overcome but it *is* the foundation of ideas that have been used time and again to justify the worst crimes in human history.
I understand that cultures will always form and change and morph from one thing into another, I certainly don't advocate working towards a single global culture. What I do argue against is the promotion of one culture in preference to another or preserving a culture from change simply on the grounds it is what a person likes. I'll happily discuss the destruction of a culture that, for example, promotes FGM but have not the slightest interest in arguing that we should use ass not arse or cob not bun or whatever.
Mr"
Agreed on culture playing a part in some of history’s most awful events. It is the catalyst for grief on a large scale. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It's certainly not something that would bother me enough to comment on other people's uses of the words.
I've pretty much used both since I was a teenager though ass usually more in reference to a person behaving poorly and arse for actually buttocks . "
Mines the other way around.
I’m going to slap that ass even though you are an arse |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"We’re you purposely being ironic using the French faux pas to moan about people using American English ? "
No, I had my doubts about using it but it has become embedded into our language. I should’ve stuck to Del Boy’s version of French, bonne de douche. |
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"The Americanisation of the English language is frustrating in my view. But, it feels a little weird to say “arse”, almost old fashioned. But I prefer it. Who doesn’t love a bit of arse… "
I can barely contain the urge to face punch anyone who says "my bad". No, its 'your mistake'- stop trying to sound cool you sad goit  |
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By *ack688Man
over a year ago
abruzzo Italy (and UK) |
I have an American friend I talk to a lot, and we often joke about language and pronunciation differences but it’s almost at the point where the americanisms feel no different to me than the differences between regional accents in the U.K. so I have certainly chilled the fuck out about it a lot more than I expected, but some of them do still grate on my soul, I have no problems with ass as opposed to arse, but I can’t imagine ever using ‘gotten’ or ‘y’all’ |
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"...but I can’t imagine ever using ‘gotten’ or ‘y’all’ "
This is most definitely a case of British English changing, not American English. Gotten is the original past participle of the verb 'to get'. Got is a fairly recent contraction, the Americans are the ones that kept the old spellimg/pronunciation. Similar with lighted/lit (e.g. Hemingway's short story, a clean well lighted place). |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"The Americanisation of the English language is frustrating in my view. But, it feels a little weird to say “arse”, almost old fashioned. But I prefer it. Who doesn’t love a bit of arse…
I can barely contain the urge to face punch anyone who says "my bad". No, its 'your mistake'- stop trying to sound cool you sad goit "
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