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Gender Neutral School Uniforms
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"Something that any gender can wear. It’s not a difficult concept to grasp." Skirt then ? | |||
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"Something that any gender can wear. It’s not a difficult concept to grasp. Skirt then ?" Yep why not…. They could all wear kilts.. | |||
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"Girls wear trousers. What am I missing?" Absolutely nothing…. | |||
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"These buggers are interfering with nature. Just let the kids wear what they want..." What's natural about clothing? | |||
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"These buggers are interfering with nature. Just let the kids wear what they want..." No I don’t think they should wear what they want. I like that we have school uniform. There should be a school uniform. They all wear the same. | |||
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"These buggers are interfering with nature. Just let the kids wear what they want... No I don’t think they should wear what they want. I like that we have school uniform. There should be a school uniform. They all wear the same. " Does that include the boys and the girls | |||
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"These buggers are interfering with nature. Just let the kids wear what they want... No I don’t think they should wear what they want. I like that we have school uniform. There should be a school uniform. They all wear the same. Does that include the boys and the girls" Of course. Everyone should wear school uniform. | |||
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"It will be shorts or trousers, polo t shirt & sweatshirt. Done, no story " Exactly..no story | |||
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"One school put a gender neutral terminology policy in the school. For me it is going too far, this is pandering to non-binary people which are in a tiny minority. You cannot force that on a whole school. On the other hand support equality education if it is age appropriate" This isn't about non binary people. It's primarily to drive down costs by making uniform more generic and reducing the monopoly specialised suppliers have and school specific livery. | |||
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"This could be introduced as a way of cutting the cost of school uniforms that can be very expensive. The government have introduced a consultation period but from the limited information I have seen on the Scot.gov website there is no mention gender neutral. " This. Everything I've read suggests that it's an attempt to save families some money. | |||
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"These buggers are interfering with nature. Just let the kids wear what they want..." School would have been much better if everyone got together and decided to come dressed as a dinosaur  | |||
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"I imagine it will mean no skirts. So that means girls don't have the option to wear something feminine if they wish. And if the trousers and skirts aren't liveried (as usually it's the blazers and tops/ties that are) how does that save money? It costs me no more to buy a skirt from Asda than a pair of trousers? " I hope it doesn’t mean no skirts. | |||
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"I imagine it will mean no skirts. So that means girls don't have the option to wear something feminine if they wish. And if the trousers and skirts aren't liveried (as usually it's the blazers and tops/ties that are) how does that save money? It costs me no more to buy a skirt from Asda than a pair of trousers? I hope it doesn’t mean no skirts. " I haven't seen anything about a set uniform. Reporting Scotland had a piece about it the other night and I don't remember anything being said about getting rid of skirts. | |||
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"They’re pretty gender neutral anyway. The only thing that hasn’t been are the skirts I suppose. So I guess the question being asked here is should boys wear skirts? In reality I doubt many boys would choose to wear skirts but yes it should be allowed in this day and age if they choose to. " Having witnessed the skirts ( 6” width material ) don’t think the boys could get away with it . | |||
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"They’re pretty gender neutral anyway. The only thing that hasn’t been are the skirts I suppose. So I guess the question being asked here is should boys wear skirts? In reality I doubt many boys would choose to wear skirts but yes it should be allowed in this day and age if they choose to. Having witnessed the skirts ( 6” width material ) don’t think the boys could get away with it . " That's true. | |||
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"I imagine it will mean no skirts. So that means girls don't have the option to wear something feminine if they wish. And if the trousers and skirts aren't liveried (as usually it's the blazers and tops/ties that are) how does that save money? It costs me no more to buy a skirt from Asda than a pair of trousers? I hope it doesn’t mean no skirts. " When I was in school we were not allowed to wear trousers. We went on strike over this and ended up being allowed to wear trousers if we wanted but only in the winter to start with. | |||
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"I imagine it will mean no skirts. So that means girls don't have the option to wear something feminine if they wish. And if the trousers and skirts aren't liveried (as usually it's the blazers and tops/ties that are) how does that save money? It costs me no more to buy a skirt from Asda than a pair of trousers? I hope it doesn’t mean no skirts. When I was in school we were not allowed to wear trousers. We went on strike over this and ended up being allowed to wear trousers if we wanted but only in the winter to start with. " I think it could have been the same for me actually. I wore skirts anyway, didn’t want to wear trousers but I don’t remember any girls wearing trousers so it probably was a rule. | |||
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"I imagine it will mean no skirts. So that means girls don't have the option to wear something feminine if they wish. And if the trousers and skirts aren't liveried (as usually it's the blazers and tops/ties that are) how does that save money? It costs me no more to buy a skirt from Asda than a pair of trousers? I hope it doesn’t mean no skirts. When I was in school we were not allowed to wear trousers. We went on strike over this and ended up being allowed to wear trousers if we wanted but only in the winter to start with. I think it could have been the same for me actually. I wore skirts anyway, didn’t want to wear trousers but I don’t remember any girls wearing trousers so it probably was a rule. " It was a rule when I first started secondary. My sister's year, who were two years above me staged a sit in on the school field as a protest and got us the right to wear trousers. We were allowed to wear heels back then, which girls aren't allowed to wear today. | |||
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"These buggers are interfering with nature. Just let the kids wear what they want..." Nature? So no clothes at the school that doesn't exist, because none of this is natural? Grand. | |||
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"The idea behind it is a blanket school Union school uniform rather than different schools having different policies. For example in some schools boys can't wear shorts and girls can't wear trousers. It's nothing sinister it's as simple as that. " Ah I see. Makes sense that does. | |||
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"It will be shorts or trousers, polo t shirt & sweatshirt. Done, no story Exactly..no story " It is someone making a storm in a tea cup. | |||
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"As a non-binary person…some of you just don’t understand what gender-neutral means. Gender-neutral doesn’t mean getting rid of skirts, or shorts, it just means having a common ground that is available. All clothing is genderless if you’re really that bothered. It’s cheaper for all parties if there’s one standard set of uniform rather than sending parents on different trips, especially if they have two kids of a different gender going to the same school. " Thats exactly what the proposal is and the main reason given, I think it's a really good idea. | |||
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"As a non-binary person…some of you just don’t understand what gender-neutral means. Gender-neutral doesn’t mean getting rid of skirts, or shorts, it just means having a common ground that is available. All clothing is genderless if you’re really that bothered. It’s cheaper for all parties if there’s one standard set of uniform rather than sending parents on different trips, especially if they have two kids of a different gender going to the same school. Thats exactly what the proposal is and the main reason given, I think it's a really good idea. "  | |||
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"As a non-binary person…some of you just don’t understand what gender-neutral means. Gender-neutral doesn’t mean getting rid of skirts, or shorts, it just means having a common ground that is available. All clothing is genderless if you’re really that bothered. It’s cheaper for all parties if there’s one standard set of uniform rather than sending parents on different trips, especially if they have two kids of a different gender going to the same school. Thats exactly what the proposal is and the main reason given, I think it's a really good idea. " It’s definitely a good idea. Especially if it can help closeted trans teenagers feel better, too. It also means equality; I know a lot of girls who aren’t comfortable in skirts and a lot of boys who aren’t comfortable in shorts so a common ground is best! | |||
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 I hated and still do hate wearing skirts!! | |||
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"I wish I could have worn trousers when I was at school back in the day I hated and still do hate wearing skirts!!"I'm 15 years younger than you and I wasn't allowed to wear trousers at secondary school. In fact the school I went to only started letting the girls wear trousers in 2019! | |||
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"What's wrong with boiler suits or dungarees? Apart from they look shit. School uniform doesn't affect schoolwork, it's a throwback to a "golden age" of education, (when kids were thrown on the scrapheap at 11). The argument about stopping kids being called out about non brand clothes is nonsense, especially nowadays, but even in my day if a kid wanted to rip the piss out of a less well off one they would find something else to use." I was listening to a radio phoning about this yesterday, That's exactly what some people have suggested. | |||
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"What's wrong with boiler suits or dungarees? Apart from they look shit. School uniform doesn't affect schoolwork, it's a throwback to a "golden age" of education, (when kids were thrown on the scrapheap at 11). The argument about stopping kids being called out about non brand clothes is nonsense, especially nowadays, but even in my day if a kid wanted to rip the piss out of a less well off one they would find something else to use." Boiler suits and dungarees are banging and the height of fashion  | |||
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"What's wrong with boiler suits or dungarees? Apart from they look shit. School uniform doesn't affect schoolwork, it's a throwback to a "golden age" of education, (when kids were thrown on the scrapheap at 11). The argument about stopping kids being called out about non brand clothes is nonsense, especially nowadays, but even in my day if a kid wanted to rip the piss out of a less well off one they would find something else to use. Boiler suits and dungarees are banging and the height of fashion "No, they're not and never will be. They are for stoking boilers and painting. Nothing else. | |||
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"What's wrong with boiler suits or dungarees? Apart from they look shit. School uniform doesn't affect schoolwork, it's a throwback to a "golden age" of education, (when kids were thrown on the scrapheap at 11). The argument about stopping kids being called out about non brand clothes is nonsense, especially nowadays, but even in my day if a kid wanted to rip the piss out of a less well off one they would find something else to use. Boiler suits and dungarees are banging and the height of fashion
No, they're not and never will be. They are for stoking boilers and painting. Nothing else. "Me and my dungarees will never be ashamed 3 | |||
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"What's wrong with boiler suits or dungarees? Apart from they look shit. School uniform doesn't affect schoolwork, it's a throwback to a "golden age" of education, (when kids were thrown on the scrapheap at 11). The argument about stopping kids being called out about non brand clothes is nonsense, especially nowadays, but even in my day if a kid wanted to rip the piss out of a less well off one they would find something else to use. Boiler suits and dungarees are banging and the height of fashion
No, they're not and never will be. They are for stoking boilers and painting. Nothing else.
Me and my dungarees will never be ashamed 3 "If you've ever seen Rick in the Young Ones, you will see my point of view! | |||
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"What's wrong with boiler suits or dungarees? Apart from they look shit. School uniform doesn't affect schoolwork, it's a throwback to a "golden age" of education, (when kids were thrown on the scrapheap at 11). The argument about stopping kids being called out about non brand clothes is nonsense, especially nowadays, but even in my day if a kid wanted to rip the piss out of a less well off one they would find something else to use. Boiler suits and dungarees are banging and the height of fashion
No, they're not and never will be. They are for stoking boilers and painting. Nothing else.
Me and my dungarees will never be ashamed 3
If you've ever seen Rick in the Young Ones, you will see my point of view!"Love that style…need a pair of dungarees like that!!   | |||
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"Hopefully it means an end to schools designing bizarre uniform that has to be purchased at specific outlets? Things like having a very specific tartan skirt/pinafore (but boys can wear ordinary grey trousers/shorts). This makes the tartan pinafore £14.99 each. Last summer, you could buy THREE grey pinafores in Sainsbury's for £18. And the tartan ones are only available in two shops (neither with decent opening times). It's completely unnecessary. Why isn't a generic grey skirt or pinafore okay? This is for children aged 4-11..." There's a school not far from me that has the most horrendous uniform. The skirt is brown calf-length and pleated, with dark green long socks and a cream blazer with 2 colour thin stripes. Add a boater to top it off. | |||
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"They’re pretty gender neutral anyway. The only thing that hasn’t been are the skirts I suppose. So I guess the question being asked here is should boys wear skirts? In reality I doubt many boys would choose to wear skirts but yes it should be allowed in this day and age if they choose to. " I've seen many boys wear skirts at school as the uniform does not allow shorts so around 30 wore skirts. | |||
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"What's wrong with boiler suits or dungarees? Apart from they look shit. School uniform doesn't affect schoolwork, it's a throwback to a "golden age" of education, (when kids were thrown on the scrapheap at 11). The argument about stopping kids being called out about non brand clothes is nonsense, especially nowadays, but even in my day if a kid wanted to rip the piss out of a less well off one they would find something else to use. Boiler suits and dungarees are banging and the height of fashion "Not easy for infant school children to get on and off though. Imagine PE day. | |||
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"Hopefully it means an end to schools designing bizarre uniform that has to be purchased at specific outlets? Things like having a very specific tartan skirt/pinafore (but boys can wear ordinary grey trousers/shorts). This makes the tartan pinafore £14.99 each. Last summer, you could buy THREE grey pinafores in Sainsbury's for £18. And the tartan ones are only available in two shops (neither with decent opening times). It's completely unnecessary. Why isn't a generic grey skirt or pinafore okay? This is for children aged 4-11... There's a school not far from me that has the most horrendous uniform. The skirt is brown calf-length and pleated, with dark green long socks and a cream blazer with 2 colour thin stripes. Add a boater to top it off. " There are two schools with brown uniform in this town. One incorporates a purply tartan aspect too. Why so much tartan outside of Scotland?! | |||
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"What's wrong with boiler suits or dungarees? Apart from they look shit. School uniform doesn't affect schoolwork, it's a throwback to a "golden age" of education, (when kids were thrown on the scrapheap at 11). The argument about stopping kids being called out about non brand clothes is nonsense, especially nowadays, but even in my day if a kid wanted to rip the piss out of a less well off one they would find something else to use. Boiler suits and dungarees are banging and the height of fashion
Not easy for infant school children to get on and off though. Imagine PE day."You couldn't get anything easier to take off than a boiler suit or dungarees. | |||
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"Hopefully it means an end to schools designing bizarre uniform that has to be purchased at specific outlets? Things like having a very specific tartan skirt/pinafore (but boys can wear ordinary grey trousers/shorts). This makes the tartan pinafore £14.99 each. Last summer, you could buy THREE grey pinafores in Sainsbury's for £18. And the tartan ones are only available in two shops (neither with decent opening times). It's completely unnecessary. Why isn't a generic grey skirt or pinafore okay? This is for children aged 4-11... There's a school not far from me that has the most horrendous uniform. The skirt is brown calf-length and pleated, with dark green long socks and a cream blazer with 2 colour thin stripes. Add a boater to top it off. There are two schools with brown uniform in this town. One incorporates a purply tartan aspect too. Why so much tartan outside of Scotland?!" To look posh possibly. I saw a primary student in a tartan skirt too. Maybe it's the Montessori uniform? | |||
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"Hopefully it means an end to schools designing bizarre uniform that has to be purchased at specific outlets? Things like having a very specific tartan skirt/pinafore (but boys can wear ordinary grey trousers/shorts). This makes the tartan pinafore £14.99 each. Last summer, you could buy THREE grey pinafores in Sainsbury's for £18. And the tartan ones are only available in two shops (neither with decent opening times). It's completely unnecessary. Why isn't a generic grey skirt or pinafore okay? This is for children aged 4-11... There's a school not far from me that has the most horrendous uniform. The skirt is brown calf-length and pleated, with dark green long socks and a cream blazer with 2 colour thin stripes. Add a boater to top it off. There are two schools with brown uniform in this town. One incorporates a purply tartan aspect too. Why so much tartan outside of Scotland?! To look posh possibly. I saw a primary student in a tartan skirt too. Maybe it's the Montessori uniform?" The school I referred to originally is definitely not posh, or Montessori, yet tartan it is. For the girls. Boys can wear cheap supermarket grey trousers/shorts but the parents of girls have to fork out for the tartan from only two shops  | |||
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"It will be shorts or trousers, polo t shirt & sweatshirt. Done, no story " Will it be mandatory? | |||
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"Seems to me like a further attempt to erase girls and turn them into androgynous drones. It's offensive to be a proud woman these days." It's not though. | |||
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"It will be shorts or trousers, polo t shirt & sweatshirt. Done, no story Will it be mandatory? " In the same way School uniform is now it just makes it much easier and cheaper for parents. | |||
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"Bloody hell. A kilt style tartan skirt for one Essex school is from £28.99 and only available from two shops. " That’s nothing. Skirts £45 here. Blazers £95. Whole shebang including all the mandatory PE kit is well over a grand! All girls school so they won’t be jumping on this gender neutral bollox bandwagon either. | |||
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"Bloody hell. A kilt style tartan skirt for one Essex school is from £28.99 and only available from two shops. That’s nothing. Skirts £45 here. Blazers £95. Whole shebang including all the mandatory PE kit is well over a grand! All girls school so they won’t be jumping on this gender neutral bollox bandwagon either. " You are missing the point! In Scotland yes they will even the girl's schools, It's the whole point so that everyone wears exactly the same regardless of the school they go to make it fairer for parents. So for example everyone will wear black trousers and white polo and gray jumper. | |||
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"Bloody hell. A kilt style tartan skirt for one Essex school is from £28.99 and only available from two shops. That’s nothing. Skirts £45 here. Blazers £95. Whole shebang including all the mandatory PE kit is well over a grand! All girls school so they won’t be jumping on this gender neutral bollox bandwagon either. You are missing the point! In Scotland yes they will even the girl's schools, It's the whole point so that everyone wears exactly the same regardless of the school they go to make it fairer for parents. So for example everyone will wear black trousers and white polo and gray jumper. " So every single school, girls, boys, mixed, state and private will ALL have precisely the same spec uniform? | |||
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"Bloody hell. A kilt style tartan skirt for one Essex school is from £28.99 and only available from two shops. That’s nothing. Skirts £45 here. Blazers £95. Whole shebang including all the mandatory PE kit is well over a grand! All girls school so they won’t be jumping on this gender neutral bollox bandwagon either. You are missing the point! In Scotland yes they will even the girl's schools, It's the whole point so that everyone wears exactly the same regardless of the school they go to make it fairer for parents. So for example everyone will wear black trousers and white polo and gray jumper. So every single school, girls, boys, mixed, state and private will ALL have precisely the same spec uniform? " Yes that's the whole point. | |||
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"Bloody hell. A kilt style tartan skirt for one Essex school is from £28.99 and only available from two shops. That’s nothing. Skirts £45 here. Blazers £95. Whole shebang including all the mandatory PE kit is well over a grand! All girls school so they won’t be jumping on this gender neutral bollox bandwagon either. You are missing the point! In Scotland yes they will even the girl's schools, It's the whole point so that everyone wears exactly the same regardless of the school they go to make it fairer for parents. So for example everyone will wear black trousers and white polo and gray jumper. So every single school, girls, boys, mixed, state and private will ALL have precisely the same spec uniform? Yes that's the whole point. " It's also to stop children being judged whilst in uniform for the school they go to. I think it's a brilliant idea. | |||
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"Bloody hell. A kilt style tartan skirt for one Essex school is from £28.99 and only available from two shops. That’s nothing. Skirts £45 here. Blazers £95. Whole shebang including all the mandatory PE kit is well over a grand! All girls school so they won’t be jumping on this gender neutral bollox bandwagon either. You are missing the point! In Scotland yes they will even the girl's schools, It's the whole point so that everyone wears exactly the same regardless of the school they go to make it fairer for parents. So for example everyone will wear black trousers and white polo and gray jumper. So every single school, girls, boys, mixed, state and private will ALL have precisely the same spec uniform? Yes that's the whole point. " Need to wash my eyes out after reading the daily mail - was first google hit - but: 1) only a proposal. It is unlikely to see the light of day unchallenged. Independent sector already up in arms and rightly so. What has it hot to do with the government? 2) It is Scotland so who gives a fk? They are 1/2 way to being communist anyway. 3) seriously can’t see the C&U party doing this in England. At least not for Independent schools. So as someone said. A non story. | |||
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"Bloody hell. A kilt style tartan skirt for one Essex school is from £28.99 and only available from two shops. That’s nothing. Skirts £45 here. Blazers £95. Whole shebang including all the mandatory PE kit is well over a grand! All girls school so they won’t be jumping on this gender neutral bollox bandwagon either. You are missing the point! In Scotland yes they will even the girl's schools, It's the whole point so that everyone wears exactly the same regardless of the school they go to make it fairer for parents. So for example everyone will wear black trousers and white polo and gray jumper. So every single school, girls, boys, mixed, state and private will ALL have precisely the same spec uniform? Yes that's the whole point. Need to wash my eyes out after reading the daily mail - was first google hit - but: 1) only a proposal. It is unlikely to see the light of day unchallenged. Independent sector already up in arms and rightly so. What has it hot to do with the government? 2) It is Scotland so who gives a fk? They are 1/2 way to being communist anyway. 3) seriously can’t see the C&U party doing this in England. At least not for Independent schools. So as someone said. A non story. "Well that's your 1st problem for reading the daily mail and using that as a sort of information. | |||
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"It will be shorts or trousers, polo t shirt & sweatshirt. Done, no story Will it be mandatory? In the same way School uniform is now it just makes it much easier and cheaper for parents. " Why does everything have to be easier and cheaper? What’s wrong with quality, choice, independence, identify? What the fk is this obsession with make everyone identikit clones? | |||
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"Bloody hell. A kilt style tartan skirt for one Essex school is from £28.99 and only available from two shops. That’s nothing. Skirts £45 here. Blazers £95. Whole shebang including all the mandatory PE kit is well over a grand! All girls school so they won’t be jumping on this gender neutral bollox bandwagon either. You are missing the point! In Scotland yes they will even the girl's schools, It's the whole point so that everyone wears exactly the same regardless of the school they go to make it fairer for parents. So for example everyone will wear black trousers and white polo and gray jumper. So every single school, girls, boys, mixed, state and private will ALL have precisely the same spec uniform? Yes that's the whole point. Need to wash my eyes out after reading the daily mail - was first google hit - but: 1) only a proposal. It is unlikely to see the light of day unchallenged. Independent sector already up in arms and rightly so. What has it hot to do with the government? 2) It is Scotland so who gives a fk? They are 1/2 way to being communist anyway. 3) seriously can’t see the C&U party doing this in England. At least not for Independent schools. So as someone said. A non story.
Well that's your 1st problem for reading the daily mail and using that as a sort of information. "I only googled it. It repeated the same facts you laid out. YOU were my source of information. Would never have known this was a thing if it were not for Fab, your lengthy commentary and a quick google. Anyway, won’t lose sleep over it. Will not happen or impact. So a none story. | |||
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"Bloody hell. A kilt style tartan skirt for one Essex school is from £28.99 and only available from two shops. That’s nothing. Skirts £45 here. Blazers £95. Whole shebang including all the mandatory PE kit is well over a grand! All girls school so they won’t be jumping on this gender neutral bollox bandwagon either. You are missing the point! In Scotland yes they will even the girl's schools, It's the whole point so that everyone wears exactly the same regardless of the school they go to make it fairer for parents. So for example everyone will wear black trousers and white polo and gray jumper. So every single school, girls, boys, mixed, state and private will ALL have precisely the same spec uniform? Yes that's the whole point. Need to wash my eyes out after reading the daily mail - was first google hit - but: 1) only a proposal. It is unlikely to see the light of day unchallenged. Independent sector already up in arms and rightly so. What has it hot to do with the government? 2) It is Scotland so who gives a fk? They are 1/2 way to being communist anyway. 3) seriously can’t see the C&U party doing this in England. At least not for Independent schools. So as someone said. A non story.
Well that's your 1st problem for reading the daily mail and using that as a sort of information.
I only googled it. It repeated the same facts you laid out. YOU were my source of information. Would never have known this was a thing if it were not for Fab, your lengthy commentary and a quick google.
Anyway, won’t lose sleep over it. Will not happen or impact. So a none story. "So because something doesn't directly impact you it's a non story is that correct? | |||
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"It will be shorts or trousers, polo t shirt & sweatshirt. Done, no story Will it be mandatory? In the same way School uniform is now it just makes it much easier and cheaper for parents. Why does everything have to be easier and cheaper? What’s wrong with quality, choice, independence, identify? What the fk is this obsession with make everyone identikit clones? " You clearly don't know the origins of school uniform then. | |||
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"It will be shorts or trousers, polo t shirt & sweatshirt. Done, no story Will it be mandatory? In the same way School uniform is now it just makes it much easier and cheaper for parents. Why does everything have to be easier and cheaper? What’s wrong with quality, choice, independence, identify? What the fk is this obsession with make everyone identikit clones? You clearly don't know the origins of school uniform then. "Oh please! Your point being? Yes it is to level the playing field within a school. If that’s the smart arse point you’re trying to make. But a school's identity is embodied in the uniform to some degree. what is to be gained by forcing an all girl’s school have the same uniform as a boys and the same as every other school. That’s just pointless? Some girls might choose to wear pants - they can. Others might choose to wear a dress or a skirt and blazer - they can. All available from the extensive brochure. Any why should this gender neutral obsession stop at the school gates? Why are the parents not all forced to wear the same outfits? | |||
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"Bloody hell. A kilt style tartan skirt for one Essex school is from £28.99 and only available from two shops. That’s nothing. Skirts £45 here. Blazers £95. Whole shebang including all the mandatory PE kit is well over a grand! All girls school so they won’t be jumping on this gender neutral bollox bandwagon either. You are missing the point! In Scotland yes they will even the girl's schools, It's the whole point so that everyone wears exactly the same regardless of the school they go to make it fairer for parents. So for example everyone will wear black trousers and white polo and gray jumper. So every single school, girls, boys, mixed, state and private will ALL have precisely the same spec uniform? Yes that's the whole point. Need to wash my eyes out after reading the daily mail - was first google hit - but: 1) only a proposal. It is unlikely to see the light of day unchallenged. Independent sector already up in arms and rightly so. What has it hot to do with the government? 2) It is Scotland so who gives a fk? They are 1/2 way to being communist anyway. 3) seriously can’t see the C&U party doing this in England. At least not for Independent schools. So as someone said. A non story.
Well that's your 1st problem for reading the daily mail and using that as a sort of information.
I only googled it. It repeated the same facts you laid out. YOU were my source of information. Would never have known this was a thing if it were not for Fab, your lengthy commentary and a quick google.
Anyway, won’t lose sleep over it. Will not happen or impact. So a none story.
So because something doesn't directly impact you it's a non story is that correct? "Your comprehension must be flawed. There were 3 points made. They affect millions of people not just myself. This story is a non story for England. It only impacts a small region of 10% of the UK population. So yes a non story - for me. It is not my job to interpret its value for anyone else. Any more than it is yours. You seem happy with it. And bully for you. Here’s a conundrum for the leftists: do you think it is fair for a government - at a time that many are facing a cost of loving pinch - to Mandate a policy that will force the replacement of already bought uniforms? Average cost for state appears to be £350 per pupil. So that’s money down the drain and ask poor parents struggling with £28 skirts to fork out again to satisfy the whims of some dress code obsessed politician? Laughable priorities. | |||
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"It will be shorts or trousers, polo t shirt & sweatshirt. Done, no story Will it be mandatory? In the same way School uniform is now it just makes it much easier and cheaper for parents. Why does everything have to be easier and cheaper? What’s wrong with quality, choice, independence, identify? What the fk is this obsession with make everyone identikit clones? You clearly don't know the origins of school uniform then.
Oh please! Your point being?
Yes it is to level the playing field within a school. If that’s the smart arse point you’re trying to make.
But a school's identity is embodied in the uniform to some degree. what is to be gained by forcing an all girl’s school have the same uniform as a boys and the same as every other school. That’s just pointless? Some girls might choose to wear pants - they can. Others might choose to wear a dress or a skirt and blazer - they can. All available from the extensive brochure.
Any why should this gender neutral obsession stop at the school gates? Why are the parents not all forced to wear the same outfits?
"Your missing the point and hung up on the gender part. | |||
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" Your missing the point and hung up on the gender part. " So you keep saying - yet no expanding on what point it is you think I’m missing. If it is the cost sensitivity that is addressed through economy of scale then that’s quite obvious. And the fact i’m arguing against the MANDATORY aspect of this for independent schools should tell you that it is likely a non point. Aa a scheme for schools to opt into then it makes sense to have cheaper uniforms e.g in deprived areas for example. But if such a scheme is made available, then surely in a free and democratic country we should enable individual schools to opt in or out as they see fit. That way parents or the board of governors or even the pupils themselves can decide. In the context I’m describing - which I appreciate does not apply to everyone. - but then again what in life does? - then the choice for the actual garments already exists. But the quality of the uniform could never be met for a lowest common denominator sweatshop price - which is what would be aimed for if we’re seeking 3x pants or skirts for £20! Will it be mandated that these identikit uniforms have to be manufactured in the UK? With an ethical supply chain? So maybe the point I’m missing is that you and Jimmy Cranky are advocating a further erosion of parental choice and driving down of standards? Why should the state dictate how independently run institutions operate? Taxpayer funded fine - do whatever there. If you examine the wider education system in the UK then uniforms are probably quite low down the list of priorities that need to be addressed that impact ‘inequality’ in society. Will you offer something more meaningful that a one liner in response? | |||
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"It will be shorts or trousers, polo t shirt & sweatshirt. Done, no story Will it be mandatory? In the same way School uniform is now it just makes it much easier and cheaper for parents. Why does everything have to be easier and cheaper? What’s wrong with quality, choice, independence, identify? What the fk is this obsession with make everyone identikit clones? You clearly don't know the origins of school uniform then.
Oh please! Your point being?
Yes it is to level the playing field within a school. If that’s the smart arse point you’re trying to make.
But a school's identity is embodied in the uniform to some degree. what is to be gained by forcing an all girl’s school have the same uniform as a boys and the same as every other school. That’s just pointless? Some girls might choose to wear pants - they can. Others might choose to wear a dress or a skirt and blazer - they can. All available from the extensive brochure.
Any why should this gender neutral obsession stop at the school gates? Why are the parents not all forced to wear the same outfits?
Your missing the point and hung up on the gender part. "Oh the irony given this is about schools and comprehension! | |||
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"Sorry but if you want to know what sex you are. Look between your legs. Way too much of this rubbish put on to kids. " Congratulations. You have managed to confuse sex and gender! | |||
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"I assume all members of Hollyrood and their staff will be adopting a similar uniform policy? Leading by example so to speak. " Do they have a uniform policy there? | |||
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"i think its totally totally wrong that girls are made to wear skirts in the freezing cold winter.. should definetley be allowed smart trousers." I agree but I think skirts should still be an option. Why should it be gender neutral? That’s got nothing to do with cost. No more expensive for a skirt than a pair of trousers. | |||
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"I assume all members of Hollyrood and their staff will be adopting a similar uniform policy? Leading by example so to speak. Do they have a uniform policy there?" I have no idea - but if they are keen to save money and make everything homogenous then maybe they should leas by example? It is just a suggestion. After all they probably expense their clothing I imagine. | |||
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"I think, for schools in poorer areas, a cheaper option than having to buy from specific shops, or that they cap the price of uniform, should be on offer. If people can afford an expensive uniform (even if it means getting a loan) then they should have the option. My mum got a Provident loan for my sisters' uniform for the all-girls grammar school they got into. I decided I didn't want to go and saved her a fortune as I only had to stick to grey skirt and cardigan/pullover and white blouse. " This. there should be options. As with clothes - there is not one size that fits all. | |||
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"Personally and at that age I will not want children seeing their affluent friends wearing posh versions of the uniform or anything else for that matter. Ideally the schools should provide the uniform for every child. I don't think a school is the place to flaunt one's material worth or indeed a catwalk for fashion parades. Pressures like that should not be put upon children at that age when it can be harmful to their development and colour their perception of the world even more. As for gender neutral uniforms, I am sure there are ways to address that with a little bit of choice and flexibility thrown in. " Will the NSP ban Tick Tock? That does 10x more harm in that regard than who has a posh uniform. | |||
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"Personally and at that age I will not want children seeing their affluent friends wearing posh versions of the uniform or anything else for that matter. Ideally the schools should provide the uniform for every child. I don't think a school is the place to flaunt one's material worth or indeed a catwalk for fashion parades. Pressures like that should not be put upon children at that age when it can be harmful to their development and colour their perception of the world even more. As for gender neutral uniforms, I am sure there are ways to address that with a little bit of choice and flexibility thrown in. Will the NSP ban Tick Tock? That does 10x more harm in that regard than who has a posh uniform. " It's not the same thing...there shouldn't even be a comparison...and social media is for everyone not just for children. And social media (and the dangers of it) is a whole different conversation altogether | |||
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"i think its totally totally wrong that girls are made to wear skirts in the freezing cold winter.. should definetley be allowed smart trousers." I wear skirts all year round, I only wear leggings to the gym or hiking. I find smart trousers uncomfortable. Think most schools allow girls to wear trousers already. | |||
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"These buggers are interfering with nature. Just let the kids wear what they want... No I don’t think they should wear what they want. I like that we have school uniform. There should be a school uniform. They all wear the same. " this
I had to wear school uniform, where the boys had theirs (trousers, white shirt, tie, blazer and black shoes) and girls had choice either trousers or skirt - but had to be according to school rules - never an issue.
and yes, if in Scotland they told me ti wear kilt - I would do or simply change to another school.
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"Thats a possibility for Scotland.. What's going on here guys ?" Simple, girls are allowed to wear skirts or pants, boys only pants. If we let them wear either they can express their identity if they choose, simple. | |||
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"People are putting the cart before the horse here ... The issue is not a about sex or gender.. it's about the narrow-minded pushing their sex and gender ideology onto clothing. A skirt has no gender or sexuality. Men in many countries wear what we call a skirt. The Scotch call it a kilt and it is there national dress. Subterraneanally you are saying that only a female or man identifying as a female should wear a skirt. Let them wear what they want. Why can't a straight man wear a skirt? Tom will tell you why? To fit in with those with a narrow ideology. " So the buggers are fixing generations of oppression. Excellent. *That* should be all over the news. Freedom! | |||
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"People are putting the cart before the horse here ... The issue is not a about sex or gender.. it's about the narrow-minded pushing their sex and gender ideology onto clothing. A skirt has no gender or sexuality. Men in many countries wear what we call a skirt. The Scotch call it a kilt and it is there national dress. Subterraneanally you are saying that only a female or man identifying as a female should wear a skirt. Let them wear what they want. Why can't a straight man wear a skirt? Tom will tell you why? To fit in with those with a narrow ideology. " Subterraneanally? What have The Jam got to do with this? | |||
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"Personally and at that age I will not want children seeing their affluent friends wearing posh versions of the uniform or anything else for that matter. Ideally the schools should provide the uniform for every child. I don't think a school is the place to flaunt one's material worth or indeed a catwalk for fashion parades. Pressures like that should not be put upon children at that age when it can be harmful to their development and colour their perception of the world even more. As for gender neutral uniforms, I am sure there are ways to address that with a little bit of choice and flexibility thrown in. Will the NSP ban Tick Tock? That does 10x more harm in that regard than who has a posh uniform. It's not the same thing...there shouldn't even be a comparison...and social media is for everyone not just for children. And social media (and the dangers of it) is a whole different conversation altogether " How many kids do you have out of interest? | |||
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"I assume all members of Hollyrood and their staff will be adopting a similar uniform policy? Leading by example so to speak. Do they have a uniform policy there? I have no idea - but if they are keen to save money and make everything homogenous then maybe they should leas by example? It is just a suggestion. After all they probably expense their clothing I imagine. " I don't see the link, sorry. Are those working in Hollyrood saying the cost of clothing to go to work in is too high? I just don't see the point you're trying to make here. | |||
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"I assume all members of Hollyrood and their staff will be adopting a similar uniform policy? Leading by example so to speak. Do they have a uniform policy there? I have no idea - but if they are keen to save money and make everything homogenous then maybe they should leas by example? It is just a suggestion. After all they probably expense their clothing I imagine. I don't see the link, sorry. Are those working in Hollyrood saying the cost of clothing to go to work in is too high? I just don't see the point you're trying to make here. " I’m the boss. I tell you what to do. You have to what I say, but I don’t have to do the same. Different rules apply to me that are hypocritical. That simpler? | |||
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"I also don't see the link between gender neutral uniforms and cost. I do think school uniforms are too prescriptive in some areas. Parent must buy from the grossly over proved school uniform shops etc. Where I live some parents have set up a second hand uniform service to help parents out. " There are a lot of comprehension challenges today. Manufacture and supply chain benefit from economies of scale. If every school has a standard uniform set that is gender neutral then in effect apart from sizing to accommodate for growth (i assume they won’t ban that). So instead of a few 1000 units a year being made and sold through a small number of outlets, then 100s of thousands or even millions of units can be made - at a cheaper per unit cost - and with a larger number of outlets then the cost can be driven down. In theory at least. Does that help? | |||
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"I also don't see the link between gender neutral uniforms and cost. I do think school uniforms are too prescriptive in some areas. Parent must buy from the grossly over proved school uniform shops etc. Where I live some parents have set up a second hand uniform service to help parents out. There are a lot of comprehension challenges today. Manufacture and supply chain benefit from economies of scale. If every school has a standard uniform set that is gender neutral then in effect apart from sizing to accommodate for growth (i assume they won’t ban that). So instead of a few 1000 units a year being made and sold through a small number of outlets, then 100s of thousands or even millions of units can be made - at a cheaper per unit cost - and with a larger number of outlets then the cost can be driven down. In theory at least. Does that help? " You're quite patronising aren't you. | |||
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"I assume all members of Hollyrood and their staff will be adopting a similar uniform policy? Leading by example so to speak. Do they have a uniform policy there? I have no idea - but if they are keen to save money and make everything homogenous then maybe they should leas by example? It is just a suggestion. After all they probably expense their clothing I imagine. I don't see the link, sorry. Are those working in Hollyrood saying the cost of clothing to go to work in is too high? I just don't see the point you're trying to make here. I’m the boss. I tell you what to do. You have to what I say, but I don’t have to do the same. Different rules apply to me that are hypocritical. That simpler? " Where I work all the managers wear suits but those doing the day in day out work wear uniform. How is this different? | |||
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"I also don't see the link between gender neutral uniforms and cost. I do think school uniforms are too prescriptive in some areas. Parent must buy from the grossly over proved school uniform shops etc. Where I live some parents have set up a second hand uniform service to help parents out. There are a lot of comprehension challenges today. Manufacture and supply chain benefit from economies of scale. If every school has a standard uniform set that is gender neutral then in effect apart from sizing to accommodate for growth (i assume they won’t ban that). So instead of a few 1000 units a year being made and sold through a small number of outlets, then 100s of thousands or even millions of units can be made - at a cheaper per unit cost - and with a larger number of outlets then the cost can be driven down. In theory at least. Does that help? " But that won't happen will it. Because the same number of items will still be sold as the number of children going to school won't reduce. They wil just channel their production into the gender neutral items. Schools can still choose preferred suppliers and they can charge what they like to a captive audience. | |||
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"Given just how indecently short some schoolgirls have taken to wearing their skirts i think having to wear trousers can only be a good thing. I don't understand how schools (or parents) allow this. "They don't. The kids are sneaky and roll them up. Been going on for years. | |||
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"I also don't see the link between gender neutral uniforms and cost. I do think school uniforms are too prescriptive in some areas. Parent must buy from the grossly over proved school uniform shops etc. Where I live some parents have set up a second hand uniform service to help parents out. There are a lot of comprehension challenges today. Manufacture and supply chain benefit from economies of scale. If every school has a standard uniform set that is gender neutral then in effect apart from sizing to accommodate for growth (i assume they won’t ban that). So instead of a few 1000 units a year being made and sold through a small number of outlets, then 100s of thousands or even millions of units can be made - at a cheaper per unit cost - and with a larger number of outlets then the cost can be driven down. In theory at least. Does that help? But that won't happen will it. Because the same number of items will still be sold as the number of children going to school won't reduce. They wil just channel their production into the gender neutral items. Schools can still choose preferred suppliers and they can charge what they like to a captive audience. " Will they? That’s not what the proposal seems to suggest. As many have pointed out the gender neutral element is a red herring really and more a byproduct of the market simplification exercise - and not really the main thrust of the policy. The policy is primarily designed to help poor families who can’t afford to properly clothe their children. But it does so in a strange manner - dragging everyone down to the bottom. Personally I’d rather drag up and help fund those who are economically inept. Whether it will happen remains to be seen. I don’t think they have thought it all through yet so only have an idea or aim. I doubt they have a fully implemented and costed plan that has a risk/benefit analysis and a detailed delivery model. Not if their shipbuilding track record is anything to go by. Storm in a teacup. Non story from most of UK perspective. | |||
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"That's why I mentioned earlier that schools should be given appropriate funds to ensure that all the children have an good uniforms to wear with some flexibility to accommodate the gender issue sensitively. It is called uniform for a reason. That will aliviate the problem of some parents not been able to afford the uniform which seems to be the reason people are saying is behind this. I am all for individuality of course but some parents do seem happy for their kids to be spoiled little brats dressed in designer clothes to go to school creating an unnecessary issue for kids from less privileged backgrounds. It's obvious even from the posts in this thread how defensive people can be. It's kids, give them all the same best that can be afforded and the choice from a suitable range available all managed by the school as long as they are given sufficient funding to do so. I am out "Why should the schools fund uniforms? All they need to do is not say they have to cine from expensive school uniform shops. Do away with the crests and insignia or use temporary removable ones so parents can buy generic red jumpers for example. | |||
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"Given just how indecently short some schoolgirls have taken to wearing their skirts i think having to wear trousers can only be a good thing. I don't understand how schools (or parents) allow this.
They don't. The kids are sneaky and roll them up. Been going on for years. "I did this as a teenager, and that was a few decades ago now | |||
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"Given just how indecently short some schoolgirls have taken to wearing their skirts i think having to wear trousers can only be a good thing. I don't understand how schools (or parents) allow this.
They don't. The kids are sneaky and roll them up. Been going on for years. "Yeah, this particular bit is yet another episode of 'the youth are going astray and not listening to their elders and traditions' (I'm very badly paraphrasing Plato). | |||
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"Given just how indecently short some schoolgirls have taken to wearing their skirts i think having to wear trousers can only be a good thing. I don't understand how schools (or parents) allow this.
They don't. The kids are sneaky and roll them up. Been going on for years.
Yeah, this particular bit is yet another episode of 'the youth are going astray and not listening to their elders and traditions' (I'm very badly paraphrasing Plato). "Not wanting to sound like Victorian Dad i never allowed my daughters to go out dressed like this. The fact that it goes on outside the home suggests that schools turn a blind eye to it. Surely having to wear trousers would immediately solve this problem. | |||
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"Given just how indecently short some schoolgirls have taken to wearing their skirts i think having to wear trousers can only be a good thing. I don't understand how schools (or parents) allow this.
They don't. The kids are sneaky and roll them up. Been going on for years.
Yeah, this particular bit is yet another episode of 'the youth are going astray and not listening to their elders and traditions' (I'm very badly paraphrasing Plato).
Not wanting to sound like Victorian Dad i never allowed my daughters to go out dressed like this. The fact that it goes on outside the home suggests that schools turn a blind eye to it. Surely having to wear trousers would immediately solve this problem."I went to a strict private school with actual uniform policy (I had my plain navy non crested scarf confiscated), and plenty of my peers had dads like yours. My peers dressed just "like that". | |||
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"Given just how indecently short some schoolgirls have taken to wearing their skirts i think having to wear trousers can only be a good thing. I don't understand how schools (or parents) allow this.
They don't. The kids are sneaky and roll them up. Been going on for years.
Yeah, this particular bit is yet another episode of 'the youth are going astray and not listening to their elders and traditions' (I'm very badly paraphrasing Plato).
Not wanting to sound like Victorian Dad i never allowed my daughters to go out dressed like this. The fact that it goes on outside the home suggests that schools turn a blind eye to it. Surely having to wear trousers would immediately solve this problem."I went to school where after assembly we had to kneel on the floor and our skirts had to touch the floor. We just unrolled them during inspection and then roll them back up after. | |||
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"Given just how indecently short some schoolgirls have taken to wearing their skirts i think having to wear trousers can only be a good thing. I don't understand how schools (or parents) allow this.
They don't. The kids are sneaky and roll them up. Been going on for years.
Yeah, this particular bit is yet another episode of 'the youth are going astray and not listening to their elders and traditions' (I'm very badly paraphrasing Plato).
Not wanting to sound like Victorian Dad i never allowed my daughters to go out dressed like this. The fact that it goes on outside the home suggests that schools turn a blind eye to it. Surely having to wear trousers would immediately solve this problem.
I went to school where after assembly we had to kneel on the floor and our skirts had to touch the floor. We just unrolled them during inspection and then roll them back up after. "My skirts had to be two inches below the knee. My skirts were - and were probably four inches longer than average *before* the rolling started  | |||
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"Given just how indecently short some schoolgirls have taken to wearing their skirts i think having to wear trousers can only be a good thing. I don't understand how schools (or parents) allow this.
They don't. The kids are sneaky and roll them up. Been going on for years.
Yeah, this particular bit is yet another episode of 'the youth are going astray and not listening to their elders and traditions' (I'm very badly paraphrasing Plato).
Not wanting to sound like Victorian Dad i never allowed my daughters to go out dressed like this. The fact that it goes on outside the home suggests that schools turn a blind eye to it. Surely having to wear trousers would immediately solve this problem."What is the problem you're referring to ? | |||
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"Given just how indecently short some schoolgirls have taken to wearing their skirts i think having to wear trousers can only be a good thing. I don't understand how schools (or parents) allow this.
They don't. The kids are sneaky and roll them up. Been going on for years.
Yeah, this particular bit is yet another episode of 'the youth are going astray and not listening to their elders and traditions' (I'm very badly paraphrasing Plato).
Not wanting to sound like Victorian Dad i never allowed my daughters to go out dressed like this. The fact that it goes on outside the home suggests that schools turn a blind eye to it. Surely having to wear trousers would immediately solve this problem.
What is the problem you're referring to ?"That society seems to think it acceptable that girls should be allowed to wear skirts that barely cover their buttocks. | |||
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"Given just how indecently short some schoolgirls have taken to wearing their skirts i think having to wear trousers can only be a good thing. I don't understand how schools (or parents) allow this.
They don't. The kids are sneaky and roll them up. Been going on for years.
Yeah, this particular bit is yet another episode of 'the youth are going astray and not listening to their elders and traditions' (I'm very badly paraphrasing Plato).
Not wanting to sound like Victorian Dad i never allowed my daughters to go out dressed like this. The fact that it goes on outside the home suggests that schools turn a blind eye to it. Surely having to wear trousers would immediately solve this problem.
What is the problem you're referring to ?
That society seems to think it acceptable that girls should be allowed to wear skirts that barely cover their buttocks."But they're covered, right? How does it affect their educational performance? | |||
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"Given just how indecently short some schoolgirls have taken to wearing their skirts i think having to wear trousers can only be a good thing. I don't understand how schools (or parents) allow this.
They don't. The kids are sneaky and roll them up. Been going on for years.
Yeah, this particular bit is yet another episode of 'the youth are going astray and not listening to their elders and traditions' (I'm very badly paraphrasing Plato).
Not wanting to sound like Victorian Dad i never allowed my daughters to go out dressed like this. The fact that it goes on outside the home suggests that schools turn a blind eye to it. Surely having to wear trousers would immediately solve this problem.
What is the problem you're referring to ?
That society seems to think it acceptable that girls should be allowed to wear skirts that barely cover their buttocks.
But they're covered, right? How does it affect their educational performance?"Who's saying it does? I can't believe i'm the only one who views this as a bad thing. | |||
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"Given just how indecently short some schoolgirls have taken to wearing their skirts i think having to wear trousers can only be a good thing. I don't understand how schools (or parents) allow this.
They don't. The kids are sneaky and roll them up. Been going on for years.
I did this as a teenager, and that was a few decades ago now "Yeah same. I think I went to high school when it was at its peak in the early 2000s. Rolled skirts and tiny ties. All the high school students I see now seem to wear their skirts far longer than we did. | |||
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"Given just how indecently short some schoolgirls have taken to wearing their skirts i think having to wear trousers can only be a good thing. I don't understand how schools (or parents) allow this.
They don't. The kids are sneaky and roll them up. Been going on for years.
Yeah, this particular bit is yet another episode of 'the youth are going astray and not listening to their elders and traditions' (I'm very badly paraphrasing Plato).
Not wanting to sound like Victorian Dad i never allowed my daughters to go out dressed like this. The fact that it goes on outside the home suggests that schools turn a blind eye to it. Surely having to wear trousers would immediately solve this problem.
What is the problem you're referring to ?
That society seems to think it acceptable that girls should be allowed to wear skirts that barely cover their buttocks.
But they're covered, right? How does it affect their educational performance?
Who's saying it does? I can't believe i'm the only one who views this as a bad thing."But why is is it bad? Not saying I disagree totally but I feel this is a 'she was asking for it' kind of argument so just trying to understand why you think short skirts are such a bad thing and it should be the girls who change. | |||
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" What's natural about clothing? " Umm clothing hasn’t got a gender, we in our society at this time have said some clothing if preferred to a gender. Real men of history have worn skirts and heels as their primary style And most importantly who cares who wears what | |||
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"Given just how indecently short some schoolgirls have taken to wearing their skirts i think having to wear trousers can only be a good thing. I don't understand how schools (or parents) allow this.
They don't. The kids are sneaky and roll them up. Been going on for years.
Yeah, this particular bit is yet another episode of 'the youth are going astray and not listening to their elders and traditions' (I'm very badly paraphrasing Plato).
Not wanting to sound like Victorian Dad i never allowed my daughters to go out dressed like this. The fact that it goes on outside the home suggests that schools turn a blind eye to it. Surely having to wear trousers would immediately solve this problem.
What is the problem you're referring to ?
That society seems to think it acceptable that girls should be allowed to wear skirts that barely cover their buttocks.
But they're covered, right? How does it affect their educational performance?
Who's saying it does? I can't believe i'm the only one who views this as a bad thing.
But why is is it bad? Not saying I disagree totally but I feel this is a 'she was asking for it' kind of argument so just trying to understand why you think short skirts are such a bad thing and it should be the girls who change. "I understand what you're getting at and this discussion is in no way that. I'm all for the young wanting to explore and venture into adulthood but should girls really be encouraged to express themselves in such a vacuous and superficial way? I happen to think they're better than that. The irony here is that i don't know any adult women who go to work dressed like this, they should be taught that there is a time and place for everything and school isn't it. It also occurs to me that hemlines are inversely proportional to society's standards. The more standards slip the further hemlines go up. | |||
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"Given just how indecently short some schoolgirls have taken to wearing their skirts i think having to wear trousers can only be a good thing. I don't understand how schools (or parents) allow this.
They don't. The kids are sneaky and roll them up. Been going on for years.
Yeah, this particular bit is yet another episode of 'the youth are going astray and not listening to their elders and traditions' (I'm very badly paraphrasing Plato).
Not wanting to sound like Victorian Dad i never allowed my daughters to go out dressed like this. The fact that it goes on outside the home suggests that schools turn a blind eye to it. Surely having to wear trousers would immediately solve this problem.
What is the problem you're referring to ?
That society seems to think it acceptable that girls should be allowed to wear skirts that barely cover their buttocks."Maybe we should just let them rebel with clothing rather than things that can cause lasting damage. They're going to, it's developmentally normal. And crack down on the weirdos that make this into a sex thing. Let kids be kids (including teenagers developing into themselves - they'll do it, but both the pervert and the puritanical elements from adults are unhelpful). | |||
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"Given just how indecently short some schoolgirls have taken to wearing their skirts i think having to wear trousers can only be a good thing. I don't understand how schools (or parents) allow this.
They don't. The kids are sneaky and roll them up. Been going on for years.
Yeah, this particular bit is yet another episode of 'the youth are going astray and not listening to their elders and traditions' (I'm very badly paraphrasing Plato).
Not wanting to sound like Victorian Dad i never allowed my daughters to go out dressed like this. The fact that it goes on outside the home suggests that schools turn a blind eye to it. Surely having to wear trousers would immediately solve this problem.
What is the problem you're referring to ?
That society seems to think it acceptable that girls should be allowed to wear skirts that barely cover their buttocks.
Maybe we should just let them rebel with clothing rather than things that can cause lasting damage. They're going to, it's developmentally normal.
And crack down on the weirdos that make this into a sex thing. Let kids be kids (including teenagers developing into themselves - they'll do it, but both the pervert and the puritanical elements from adults are unhelpful)."I'm not trying to come across as purtanical regardless of how i sound. I'm just viewing this as a father to daughters. I just want girls to understand that there are other, better and more lasting ways to express themselves. | |||
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"People are putting the cart before the horse here ... The issue is not a about sex or gender.. it's about the narrow-minded pushing their sex and gender ideology onto clothing. A skirt has no gender or sexuality. Men in many countries wear what we call a skirt. The Scotch call it a kilt and it is there national dress. Subterraneanally you are saying that only a female or man identifying as a female should wear a skirt. Let them wear what they want. Why can't a straight man wear a skirt? Tom will tell you why? To fit in with those with a narrow ideology. Subterraneanally? What have The Jam got to do with this? "You are thinking of Going Underground | |||
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"Given just how indecently short some schoolgirls have taken to wearing their skirts i think having to wear trousers can only be a good thing. I don't understand how schools (or parents) allow this.
They don't. The kids are sneaky and roll them up. Been going on for years.
Yeah, this particular bit is yet another episode of 'the youth are going astray and not listening to their elders and traditions' (I'm very badly paraphrasing Plato).
Not wanting to sound like Victorian Dad i never allowed my daughters to go out dressed like this. The fact that it goes on outside the home suggests that schools turn a blind eye to it. Surely having to wear trousers would immediately solve this problem.
What is the problem you're referring to ?
That society seems to think it acceptable that girls should be allowed to wear skirts that barely cover their buttocks.
Maybe we should just let them rebel with clothing rather than things that can cause lasting damage. They're going to, it's developmentally normal.
And crack down on the weirdos that make this into a sex thing. Let kids be kids (including teenagers developing into themselves - they'll do it, but both the pervert and the puritanical elements from adults are unhelpful).
I'm not trying to come across as purtanical regardless of how i sound. I'm just viewing this as a father to daughters.
I just want girls to understand that there are other, better and more lasting ways to express themselves."Sure. And while they're figuring it out (this is developmentally normal, as you know), expressing themselves in temporary ways isn't the end of the world. I'm less concerned by the puritanical or protective than I am by the weirdo perverts. Let's crack down on them. | |||
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"Personally I think we should get rid of gender specific clothing all together, instead of creating gender neutral stuff. " What I mean is, a dress shouldn't be seen as only for females... That kind of thing... Tbf, I quite like how men look in a dress | |||
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"Some of you on here are just weird and transphobic…what do you gain out of being transphobic? Literally nothing "are you talking about real transphobia or just they disagree with a trans person it can be hard to tell on here | |||
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"Personally I think we should get rid of gender specific clothing all together, instead of creating gender neutral stuff. What I mean is, a dress shouldn't be seen as only for females... That kind of thing... Tbf, I quite like how men look in a dress "you wouldnt see me shopping in a dress | |||
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"Never understood the uniform thing its not like it makes kids smarter " I read an article from the US a few years ago. There's a phenomena known as "label envy" - richer kids wore designer labelled clothing and created a division between them and the poorer kids who couldn't afford it. A standard, cheap uniform that's the same for everyone was shown to stop this. | |||
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"Never understood the uniform thing its not like it makes kids smarter I read an article from the US a few years ago. There's a phenomena known as "label envy" - richer kids wore designer labelled clothing and created a division between them and the poorer kids who couldn't afford it. A standard, cheap uniform that's the same for everyone was shown to stop this." cheap my arse cheap i could buy all nike gear for the price of a high school uniform | |||
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"Given just how indecently short some schoolgirls have taken to wearing their skirts i think having to wear trousers can only be a good thing. I don't understand how schools (or parents) allow this.
They don't. The kids are sneaky and roll them up. Been going on for years.
Yeah, this particular bit is yet another episode of 'the youth are going astray and not listening to their elders and traditions' (I'm very badly paraphrasing Plato).
Not wanting to sound like Victorian Dad i never allowed my daughters to go out dressed like this. The fact that it goes on outside the home suggests that schools turn a blind eye to it. Surely having to wear trousers would immediately solve this problem.
I went to a strict private school with actual uniform policy (I had my plain navy non crested scarf confiscated), and plenty of my peers had dads like yours.
My peers dressed just "like that"."Same in exact same circs happens today. Whatever we victorian dads out in place, the kids will figure some way to circumvent. It is natural and part of growing up. But the sanctions for infringement rack up and can get quite expensive! | |||
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"Some of you on here are just weird and transphobic…what do you gain out of being transphobic? Literally nothing "Where? | |||
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"Given just how indecently short some schoolgirls have taken to wearing their skirts i think having to wear trousers can only be a good thing. I don't understand how schools (or parents) allow this.
They don't. The kids are sneaky and roll them up. Been going on for years.
Yeah, this particular bit is yet another episode of 'the youth are going astray and not listening to their elders and traditions' (I'm very badly paraphrasing Plato).
Not wanting to sound like Victorian Dad i never allowed my daughters to go out dressed like this. The fact that it goes on outside the home suggests that schools turn a blind eye to it. Surely having to wear trousers would immediately solve this problem.
I went to school where after assembly we had to kneel on the floor and our skirts had to touch the floor. We just unrolled them during inspection and then roll them back up after. "why did you roll your skirts up? What was the effect you was trying to achieve? | |||
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"This story is all about the parents. Let kids be kids " No, it's not. It's a simple idea that should have been implemented years ago. | |||
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" What's natural about clothing? Umm clothing hasn’t got a gender, we in our society at this time have said some clothing if preferred to a gender. Real men of history have worn skirts and heels as their primary style And most importantly who cares who wears what " Precisely. Why should the State what an individual school should adopt as uniform policy? | |||
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"Given just how indecently short some schoolgirls have taken to wearing their skirts i think having to wear trousers can only be a good thing. I don't understand how schools (or parents) allow this.
They don't. The kids are sneaky and roll them up. Been going on for years.
Yeah, this particular bit is yet another episode of 'the youth are going astray and not listening to their elders and traditions' (I'm very badly paraphrasing Plato).
Not wanting to sound like Victorian Dad i never allowed my daughters to go out dressed like this. The fact that it goes on outside the home suggests that schools turn a blind eye to it. Surely having to wear trousers would immediately solve this problem.
I went to school where after assembly we had to kneel on the floor and our skirts had to touch the floor. We just unrolled them during inspection and then roll them back up after. why did you roll your skirts up? What was the effect you was trying to achieve? "I rolled my skirts up because I thought it was sexy. I stuffed my heels in my bag too. Probably to get the attention of the boys. That’s what we did. Girls liked the attention from boys and vice versa. Is that so wrong? Coz it was pretty bloody normal in my day. | |||
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"People are putting the cart before the horse here ... The issue is not a about sex or gender.. it's about the narrow-minded pushing their sex and gender ideology onto clothing. A skirt has no gender or sexuality. Men in many countries wear what we call a skirt. The Scotch call it a kilt and it is there national dress. Subterraneanally you are saying that only a female or man identifying as a female should wear a skirt. Let them wear what they want. Why can't a straight man wear a skirt? Tom will tell you why? To fit in with those with a narrow ideology. Subterraneanally? What have The Jam got to do with this?
You are thinking of Going Underground "
Don’t tell the wokish about the lyrics! They’ll have to be changed:
“let the boys all sing and let the boys all shout for tomorrow”
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"Given just how indecently short some schoolgirls have taken to wearing their skirts i think having to wear trousers can only be a good thing. I don't understand how schools (or parents) allow this.
They don't. The kids are sneaky and roll them up. Been going on for years.
Yeah, this particular bit is yet another episode of 'the youth are going astray and not listening to their elders and traditions' (I'm very badly paraphrasing Plato).
Not wanting to sound like Victorian Dad i never allowed my daughters to go out dressed like this. The fact that it goes on outside the home suggests that schools turn a blind eye to it. Surely having to wear trousers would immediately solve this problem.
I went to school where after assembly we had to kneel on the floor and our skirts had to touch the floor. We just unrolled them during inspection and then roll them back up after. why did you roll your skirts up? What was the effect you was trying to achieve?
I rolled my skirts up because I thought it was sexy. I stuffed my heels in my bag too. Probably to get the attention of the boys. That’s what we did. Girls liked the attention from boys and vice versa. Is that so wrong? Coz it was pretty bloody normal in my day. "you little rebel | |||
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"Given just how indecently short some schoolgirls have taken to wearing their skirts i think having to wear trousers can only be a good thing. I don't understand how schools (or parents) allow this.
They don't. The kids are sneaky and roll them up. Been going on for years.
Yeah, this particular bit is yet another episode of 'the youth are going astray and not listening to their elders and traditions' (I'm very badly paraphrasing Plato).
Not wanting to sound like Victorian Dad i never allowed my daughters to go out dressed like this. The fact that it goes on outside the home suggests that schools turn a blind eye to it. Surely having to wear trousers would immediately solve this problem.
I went to school where after assembly we had to kneel on the floor and our skirts had to touch the floor. We just unrolled them during inspection and then roll them back up after. why did you roll your skirts up? What was the effect you was trying to achieve?
I rolled my skirts up because I thought it was sexy. I stuffed my heels in my bag too. Probably to get the attention of the boys. That’s what we did. Girls liked the attention from boys and vice versa. Is that so wrong? Coz it was pretty bloody normal in my day. you little rebel "And I’m not the kind of woman who has a meltdown on fab or anywhere else if a man happens to look at my cleavage or my gym gear even now. That’s what men and women do. It’s natural and has been natural forever. Touch someone or make inappropriate comments and it’s different of course. | |||
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"Never understood the uniform thing its not like it makes kids smarter I read an article from the US a few years ago. There's a phenomena known as "label envy" - richer kids wore designer labelled clothing and created a division between them and the poorer kids who couldn't afford it. A standard, cheap uniform that's the same for everyone was shown to stop this." And in principle within the same institution this makes a lot of sense. There will always be other dimensions; what makeup they use, their watches, jewellery, phone, what kind of horse they have and where they keep it, where they go on holiday etc (i’m exaggerating a little deliberately just to wind up those who practise the politics of envy btw, but you get the point). But a standard dress code levels the playing field. But not all areas of society are the same so the a one size fits all is a bit pointless. It does not achieve much. Simply shifts the bar to something else. | |||
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"Given just how indecently short some schoolgirls have taken to wearing their skirts i think having to wear trousers can only be a good thing. I don't understand how schools (or parents) allow this.
They don't. The kids are sneaky and roll them up. Been going on for years.
Yeah, this particular bit is yet another episode of 'the youth are going astray and not listening to their elders and traditions' (I'm very badly paraphrasing Plato).
Not wanting to sound like Victorian Dad i never allowed my daughters to go out dressed like this. The fact that it goes on outside the home suggests that schools turn a blind eye to it. Surely having to wear trousers would immediately solve this problem.
I went to school where after assembly we had to kneel on the floor and our skirts had to touch the floor. We just unrolled them during inspection and then roll them back up after. why did you roll your skirts up? What was the effect you was trying to achieve? "Because I wasn't supposed to. Oh and we had these weird 4 panelled skirts, the split if you ran. It meant I could run and keep up with my best mates who were boys. I had no interest in boys sexually whatsoever at that point. When I was older and I wanted attention I wore a black bra under the pale blue shirt | |||
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"Given just how indecently short some schoolgirls have taken to wearing their skirts i think having to wear trousers can only be a good thing. I don't understand how schools (or parents) allow this.
They don't. The kids are sneaky and roll them up. Been going on for years.
Yeah, this particular bit is yet another episode of 'the youth are going astray and not listening to their elders and traditions' (I'm very badly paraphrasing Plato).
Not wanting to sound like Victorian Dad i never allowed my daughters to go out dressed like this. The fact that it goes on outside the home suggests that schools turn a blind eye to it. Surely having to wear trousers would immediately solve this problem.
What is the problem you're referring to ?
That society seems to think it acceptable that girls should be allowed to wear skirts that barely cover their buttocks."Exactly why is it a problem? Why're you associating girls wanting to celebrate their bodies with negative things like standards dropping? | |||
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"Given just how indecently short some schoolgirls have taken to wearing their skirts i think having to wear trousers can only be a good thing. I don't understand how schools (or parents) allow this.
They don't. The kids are sneaky and roll them up. Been going on for years.
Yeah, this particular bit is yet another episode of 'the youth are going astray and not listening to their elders and traditions' (I'm very badly paraphrasing Plato).
Not wanting to sound like Victorian Dad i never allowed my daughters to go out dressed like this. The fact that it goes on outside the home suggests that schools turn a blind eye to it. Surely having to wear trousers would immediately solve this problem.
I went to school where after assembly we had to kneel on the floor and our skirts had to touch the floor. We just unrolled them during inspection and then roll them back up after. why did you roll your skirts up? What was the effect you was trying to achieve?
Because I wasn't supposed to. Oh and we had these weird 4 panelled skirts, the split if you ran. It meant I could run and keep up with my best mates who were boys. I had no interest in boys sexually whatsoever at that point. When I was older and I wanted attention I wore a black bra under the pale blue shirt "I honestly don’t even understand why the question you and Nora have answered needed to be asked. Anyone with a modicum of social behavioural awareness, and especially if they recall their own childhood and have their own kids to observe the same old same old challenge/response cycle would understand this is perfectly normal and “what kids do”. And bravo to those who chose too. Go girls! (Mr) | |||
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"Thats a possibility for Scotland.. What's going on here guys ?" Well, back in the 1980's before anybody realised the truth about George Michael, it was apparently acceptable for tender and young females to wear "Doc Martins tough guy leather laced up boots" and fantasise about the possibilities of shuttlecocks. No wonder so many pre-pubescant teenagers would sniff the leather boots of their fellow students. So, that's pretty fucked up, but so was most of the 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's then we got the noughties. Hope that helps | |||
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