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I’m livid right now!
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Yet again with no real basis of fact the male gay & bi community getting publicly lambasted by the UKSHA.
I quote:
“ The UKHSA has asked gay and bisexual men and men who have sex with men to be particularly vigilant of unusual rashes or blister-like lesions.
Monkeypox has not previously been described as a sexually transmitted infection, though it can be passed on by direct contact during sex.”
Wtf! The 2nd paragraph direct contact during sex…. Oh wow what magical defence females have from this infection??
Again the amazing world of statistics 4/7 confirmed cases (which 3 of are connected) - it’s rife in that demographic at 57% of all cases.
Note - this can be transmitted via bedsheets, towels or close contact - it’s also airborne so coughs & sneezing can vaporise it.
it’s not an STI.
Link to the story if anyone cares to read it.
https://inews.co.uk/news/health/monkeypox-uk-outbreak-first-recorded-cases-disease-sexually-transmitted-1633696
Apologies for the rant…. Happy Friday Everyone!
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Based on what I heard previously I would have agreed that moneypox was not an STI but the fact that it has been raised suggests that someone, somewhere knows/has a strong suspicion about another potential vector.
If OP is a medical expert in this exact field then I would bow to his knowledge - if he is getting up tight because of a news article then I would suggest he calms down and waits to see what plays out.
OP might well be 100% correct that it is “bashing”. He might also not be. No one on here knows. |
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"But!
If there's a chance this is actually related and they said nothing, wouldn't that be worse?"
According to the WHO - there is no evidence that this affects Bi/Gay males over anyone else.
What’s probably happened in this case, those infected probably attended the same event and contracted it from the host.
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"Based on what I heard previously I would have agreed that moneypox was not an STI but the fact that it has been raised suggests that someone, somewhere knows/has a strong suspicion about another potential vector.
If OP is a medical expert in this exact field then I would bow to his knowledge - if he is getting up tight because of a news article then I would suggest he calms down and waits to see what plays out.
OP might well be 100% correct that it is “bashing”. He might also not be. No one on here knows. "
Please read the data sheet from the WHO….
https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/monkeypox
There is no evidence stated from global studies.
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"Based on what I heard previously I would have agreed that moneypox was not an STI but the fact that it has been raised suggests that someone, somewhere knows/has a strong suspicion about another potential vector.
If OP is a medical expert in this exact field then I would bow to his knowledge - if he is getting up tight because of a news article then I would suggest he calms down and waits to see what plays out.
OP might well be 100% correct that it is “bashing”. He might also not be. No one on here knows.
Please read the data sheet from the WHO….
https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/monkeypox
There is no evidence stated from global studies.
"
I am not doubting that - which is why I prefaced my original statement with “Based on what I heard previously I would have agreed that moneypox was not an STI”.
Question is whether something has now changed to invalidate that advice? That is the scientific method isn’t it? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Based on what I heard previously I would have agreed that moneypox was not an STI but the fact that it has been raised suggests that someone, somewhere knows/has a strong suspicion about another potential vector.
If OP is a medical expert in this exact field then I would bow to his knowledge - if he is getting up tight because of a news article then I would suggest he calms down and waits to see what plays out.
OP might well be 100% correct that it is “bashing”. He might also not be. No one on here knows.
Please read the data sheet from the WHO….
https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/monkeypox
There is no evidence stated from global studies.
"
The advice is not about the global spread, it's based on the recent cases in the UK. |
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"Based on what I heard previously I would have agreed that moneypox was not an STI but the fact that it has been raised suggests that someone, somewhere knows/has a strong suspicion about another potential vector.
If OP is a medical expert in this exact field then I would bow to his knowledge - if he is getting up tight because of a news article then I would suggest he calms down and waits to see what plays out.
OP might well be 100% correct that it is “bashing”. He might also not be. No one on here knows.
Please read the data sheet from the WHO….
https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/monkeypox
There is no evidence stated from global studies.
I am not doubting that - which is why I prefaced my original statement with “Based on what I heard previously I would have agreed that moneypox was not an STI”.
Question is whether something has now changed to invalidate that advice? That is the scientific method isn’t it?"
I get that some where in the world has to be first to discover a new trend but in the 50 years this has been around & not have it come up before is highly suspect - especially with 4 cases. 3 of which are linked. |
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"Based on what I heard previously I would have agreed that moneypox was not an STI but the fact that it has been raised suggests that someone, somewhere knows/has a strong suspicion about another potential vector.
If OP is a medical expert in this exact field then I would bow to his knowledge - if he is getting up tight because of a news article then I would suggest he calms down and waits to see what plays out.
OP might well be 100% correct that it is “bashing”. He might also not be. No one on here knows.
Please read the data sheet from the WHO….
https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/monkeypox
There is no evidence stated from global studies.
I am not doubting that - which is why I prefaced my original statement with “Based on what I heard previously I would have agreed that moneypox was not an STI”.
Question is whether something has now changed to invalidate that advice? That is the scientific method isn’t it?
I get that some where in the world has to be first to discover a new trend but in the 50 years this has been around & not have it come up before is highly suspect - especially with 4 cases. 3 of which are linked. "
Agreed but that is also not indicative of “bashing”. Let it play out and we can see whether the evidence backs the warning up or not. |
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"But!
If there's a chance this is actually related and they said nothing, wouldn't that be worse?
According to the WHO - there is no evidence that this affects Bi/Gay males over anyone else.
What’s probably happened in this case, those infected probably attended the same event and contracted it from the host.
"
So if it currently is prevalent in one section of the public is it good practice to warn them? |
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"But!
If there's a chance this is actually related and they said nothing, wouldn't that be worse?
According to the WHO - there is no evidence that this affects Bi/Gay males over anyone else.
What’s probably happened in this case, those infected probably attended the same event and contracted it from the host.
So if it currently is prevalent in one section of the public is it good practice to warn them?"
4 cases, 3 of which are linked only makes it prevalent in the 7 cases reported this week.
When you expand the figure to all infections in the U.K. this year that drops to around 12%
So taken in context 88% of all infections are from heterosexuals - think of the children and run for the hills - the straight people are going to get us all.
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"Livid like Gerald the gorilla. 
 I’ve had a snickers I’m all good now!
Lol!
Haha we’re you hangry.
You cheeky monkey. "
Well that may have played a part & the fact it’s just rained on my nearly dry washing out on the line |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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There are 20 UK cases and rising
"Dr Susan Hopkins from the UKHSA said "a notable proportion" of the recent cases in the UK and Europe have been found in gay and bisexual men "so we are particularly encouraging them to be alert to the symptoms and seek help if concerned""
They are telling everyone to be careful but have noted a section of the population that may need to be more careful.
Damned if they do and damned if they don't
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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It's outrageous that this kind of behaviour exists and we know that arseholes will be arseholes. Getting upset doesn't help you and it won't help sufferers so it only serves to help those saying such things.
"What’s probably happened in this case, those infected probably attended the same event and" is all very well but it is a "probably" and not a hard unargueable fact and this kind of thing promotes and antagonises too many people. Be sure of what you're stating before doing so please. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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T’other day though our Tom was saying that the UK outbreak appeared to have been shared primarily through the gay community. I have no idea if those sources are correct or not.
But if so, surely a warning is prudent and in the best interests of anyone that may be vulnerable in this “higher risk” group.
Is there an implication that it’s *only* the gay community at risk? If so, I can understand the anger and frustration. |
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"T’other day though our Tom was saying that the UK outbreak appeared to have been shared primarily through the gay community. I have no idea if those sources are correct or not.
But if so, surely a warning is prudent and in the best interests of anyone that may be vulnerable in this “higher risk” group.
Is there an implication that it’s *only* the gay community at risk? If so, I can understand the anger and frustration."
Oh absolutely!
People will take what they want from it, but there was no warning issued before this cluster about heterosexuals having close contact or to check themselves for rashes etc.
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"
People will take what they want from it, but there was no warning issued before this cluster about heterosexuals having close contact or to check themselves for rashes etc.
"
That’s a reasonable point.  |
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"There are 20 UK cases and rising
"Dr Susan Hopkins from the UKHSA said "a notable proportion" of the recent cases in the UK and Europe have been found in gay and bisexual men "so we are particularly encouraging them to be alert to the symptoms and seek help if concerned""
They are telling everyone to be careful but have noted a section of the population that may need to be more careful.
Damned if they do and damned if they don't
"
I agree can’t see what the issue is |
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"There are 20 UK cases and rising
"Dr Susan Hopkins from the UKHSA said "a notable proportion" of the recent cases in the UK and Europe have been found in gay and bisexual men "so we are particularly encouraging them to be alert to the symptoms and seek help if concerned""
They are telling everyone to be careful but have noted a section of the population that may need to be more careful.
Damned if they do and damned if they don't
I agree can’t see what the issue is"
20 U.K. cases and rising - 4 of those from the gay/bi community & there’s no issue with singling out a particular demographic?
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From what I've just read transmission is through a lot of factors. Respiratory, contact with infected bed linen and other items. Rarely is it through sexual relations. But because some of the present cases involve gay/bi men this is being considered. They still don't know how they contracted the disease. The one imported case Involving a Nigerian man has had no contact whatsoever with the others. The USA had a spate of this a while ago. It was found that it originated from a batch of imported animals and was quickly contained |
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By *bi HaiveMan
over a year ago
Forum Mod Cheeseville, Somerset |
"Based on what I heard previously I would have agreed that moneypox was not an STI but the fact that it has been raised suggests that someone, somewhere knows/has a strong suspicion about another potential vector.
If OP is a medical expert in this exact field then I would bow to his knowledge - if he is getting up tight because of a news article then I would suggest he calms down and waits to see what plays out.
OP might well be 100% correct that it is “bashing”. He might also not be. No one on here knows.
Please read the data sheet from the WHO….
https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/monkeypox
There is no evidence stated from global studies.
I am not doubting that - which is why I prefaced my original statement with “Based on what I heard previously I would have agreed that moneypox was not an STI”.
Question is whether something has now changed to invalidate that advice? That is the scientific method isn’t it?
I get that some where in the world has to be first to discover a new trend but in the 50 years this has been around & not have it come up before is highly suspect - especially with 4 cases. 3 of which are linked.
Agreed but that is also not indicative of “bashing”. Let it play out and we can see whether the evidence backs the warning up or not."
It's definitely bashing.
Otherwise why would it not simply say 'people' instead of gay and bisexual men ?
Anyone having sex could transmit it, male or female, gay, bi or straight.
A
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"There are 20 UK cases and rising
"Dr Susan Hopkins from the UKHSA said "a notable proportion" of the recent cases in the UK and Europe have been found in gay and bisexual men "so we are particularly encouraging them to be alert to the symptoms and seek help if concerned""
They are telling everyone to be careful but have noted a section of the population that may need to be more careful.
Damned if they do and damned if they don't
I agree can’t see what the issue is
20 U.K. cases and rising - 4 of those from the gay/bi community & there’s no issue with singling out a particular demographic?
"
Where are you getting the 4 out of 20 from? |
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"Based on what I heard previously I would have agreed that moneypox was not an STI but the fact that it has been raised suggests that someone, somewhere knows/has a strong suspicion about another potential vector.
If OP is a medical expert in this exact field then I would bow to his knowledge - if he is getting up tight because of a news article then I would suggest he calms down and waits to see what plays out.
OP might well be 100% correct that it is “bashing”. He might also not be. No one on here knows.
Please read the data sheet from the WHO….
https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/monkeypox
There is no evidence stated from global studies.
I am not doubting that - which is why I prefaced my original statement with “Based on what I heard previously I would have agreed that moneypox was not an STI”.
Question is whether something has now changed to invalidate that advice? That is the scientific method isn’t it?
I get that some where in the world has to be first to discover a new trend but in the 50 years this has been around & not have it come up before is highly suspect - especially with 4 cases. 3 of which are linked.
Agreed but that is also not indicative of “bashing”. Let it play out and we can see whether the evidence backs the warning up or not.
It's definitely bashing.
Otherwise why would it not simply say 'people' instead of gay and bisexual men ?
Anyone having sex could transmit it, male or female, gay, bi or straight.
A
"
Because percentage wise there are more in gays/bi men than the not, compared to the amount of gays/bi men in the country.
Statistics |
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By *bi HaiveMan
over a year ago
Forum Mod Cheeseville, Somerset |
"Based on what I heard previously I would have agreed that moneypox was not an STI but the fact that it has been raised suggests that someone, somewhere knows/has a strong suspicion about another potential vector.
If OP is a medical expert in this exact field then I would bow to his knowledge - if he is getting up tight because of a news article then I would suggest he calms down and waits to see what plays out.
OP might well be 100% correct that it is “bashing”. He might also not be. No one on here knows.
Please read the data sheet from the WHO….
https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/monkeypox
There is no evidence stated from global studies.
I am not doubting that - which is why I prefaced my original statement with “Based on what I heard previously I would have agreed that moneypox was not an STI”.
Question is whether something has now changed to invalidate that advice? That is the scientific method isn’t it?
I get that some where in the world has to be first to discover a new trend but in the 50 years this has been around & not have it come up before is highly suspect - especially with 4 cases. 3 of which are linked.
Agreed but that is also not indicative of “bashing”. Let it play out and we can see whether the evidence backs the warning up or not.
It's definitely bashing.
Otherwise why would it not simply say 'people' instead of gay and bisexual men ?
Anyone having sex could transmit it, male or female, gay, bi or straight.
A
Because percentage wise there are more in gays/bi men than the not, compared to the amount of gays/bi men in the country.
Statistics"
You can prove anything with statistics. If the original source of this outbreak was a straight male who'd contracted the virus in Africa and gone on to infect several casual sex partners do you honestly believe that the press reports would state 'Straight people are advised to check themselves after sex' ?
Because if you do you're delusional.
This is from the WHO web page regarding Monkeypox. Absolutely zero mention of it affecting sexuality as a contributing factor in infection or transmission rates.
Monkeypox is caused by monkeypox virus, a member of the Orthopoxvirus genus in the family Poxviridae.
Monkeypox is a viral zoonotic disease that occurs primarily in tropical rainforest areas of Central and West Africa and is occasionally exported to other regions.
Monkeypox typically presents clinically with fever, rash and swollen lymph nodes and may lead to a range of medical complications.
Monkeypox is usually a self-limited disease with the symptoms lasting from 2 to 4 weeks. Severe cases can occur. In recent times, the case fatality ratio has been around 3-6%.
Monkeypox is transmitted to humans through close contact with an infected person or animal, or with material contaminated with the virus.
Monkeypox virus is transmitted from one person to another by close contact with lesions, body fluids, respiratory droplets and contaminated materials such as bedding.
The clinical presentation of monkeypox resembles that of smallpox, a related orthopoxvirus infection which was declared eradicated worldwide in 1980. Monkeypox is less contagious than smallpox and causes less severe illness.
Vaccines used during the smallpox eradication programme also provided protection against monkeypox. Newer vaccines have been developed of which one has been approved for prevention of monkeypox
An antiviral agent developed for the treatment of smallpox has also been licensed for the treatment of monkeypox.
A |
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By *bi HaiveMan
over a year ago
Forum Mod Cheeseville, Somerset |
"Here is the WHO page outlining the UK cases: https://www.who.int/emergencies/disease-outbreak-news/item/2022-DON383
It does reference the fact that cases were reported via a sexual health clinic. "
Yes.
And if, as I said before, the four cases had been in straight people the press wouldn't mention sexuality would they?
It's possible these men have been in contact with each other - contact tracing is being done.
The disease is transmitted in a manner that a person of any sexuality is able to pass it on. So why bring sexuality into a report?
Was there a mention of their ages? Their ethnicities? Their nationalities?
No. Just one factor.
Why do you think that is?
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"Here is the WHO page outlining the UK cases: https://www.who.int/emergencies/disease-outbreak-news/item/2022-DON383
It does reference the fact that cases were reported via a sexual health clinic.
Yes.
And if, as I said before, the four cases had been in straight people the press wouldn't mention sexuality would they?
It's possible these men have been in contact with each other - contact tracing is being done.
The disease is transmitted in a manner that a person of any sexuality is able to pass it on. So why bring sexuality into a report?
Was there a mention of their ages? Their ethnicities? Their nationalities?
No. Just one factor.
Why do you think that is?
A"
I don’t know why it is which is why I am not throwing my toys out the pram just yet.
My earlier observation still stands - monkey pox has historically not had a sexual element to it but there is the chance that something has changed. Calling out that chance does not explicitly make it “bashing”. |
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"Here is the WHO page outlining the UK cases: https://www.who.int/emergencies/disease-outbreak-news/item/2022-DON383
It does reference the fact that cases were reported via a sexual health clinic. "
Yep your right it does…
After clinicians made the first few diagnoses among men coming to sexual health clinics with unusual rashes, health officials began asking sexual health clinics to look out for monkeypox cases. This doesn’t mean monkeypox is only circulating among men who have sex with men, and some infections have been diagnosed in people who are not gay or bisexual men.
“We’re finding where we’re looking,” Maria Van Kerkhove, a World Health Organization emerging diseases and zoonoses expert stated.
If this monkeypox outbreak does end up linked to sexual networks among men, that doesn’t mean it’s necessarily a sexually transmitted infection; it may simply be a question of who’s getting close enough to an infected person to get infected, themselves. Other germs spread by close (but not specifically sexual) contact have previously caused clusters of infections among gay and bisexual men and college-aged students, such as meningitis, a disease spread by respiratory droplets in close settings.
I think what ruffles the feathers more than anything is the fact that it’s targeted towards bi/gay males….. when it should say anyone that is likely to get naked with people you don’t know should do the following checks…
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Here is the WHO page outlining the UK cases: https://www.who.int/emergencies/disease-outbreak-news/item/2022-DON383
It does reference the fact that cases were reported via a sexual health clinic.
Yes.
And if, as I said before, the four cases had been in straight people the press wouldn't mention sexuality would they?
It's possible these men have been in contact with each other - contact tracing is being done.
The disease is transmitted in a manner that a person of any sexuality is able to pass it on. So why bring sexuality into a report?
Was there a mention of their ages? Their ethnicities? Their nationalities?
No. Just one factor.
Why do you think that is?
A"
Do you think someone, somewhere went 'Oh great, let's use this as an opportunity to bash bi/gay men'? |
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By *bi HaiveMan
over a year ago
Forum Mod Cheeseville, Somerset |
"Here is the WHO page outlining the UK cases: https://www.who.int/emergencies/disease-outbreak-news/item/2022-DON383
It does reference the fact that cases were reported via a sexual health clinic.
Yes.
And if, as I said before, the four cases had been in straight people the press wouldn't mention sexuality would they?
It's possible these men have been in contact with each other - contact tracing is being done.
The disease is transmitted in a manner that a person of any sexuality is able to pass it on. So why bring sexuality into a report?
Was there a mention of their ages? Their ethnicities? Their nationalities?
No. Just one factor.
Why do you think that is?
A
Do you think someone, somewhere went 'Oh great, let's use this as an opportunity to bash bi/gay men'?"
The UK press?
Fuck yes. They've been doing it for decades.
A |
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"Here is the WHO page outlining the UK cases: https://www.who.int/emergencies/disease-outbreak-news/item/2022-DON383
It does reference the fact that cases were reported via a sexual health clinic.
Yep your right it does…
After clinicians made the first few diagnoses among men coming to sexual health clinics with unusual rashes, health officials began asking sexual health clinics to look out for monkeypox cases. This doesn’t mean monkeypox is only circulating among men who have sex with men, and some infections have been diagnosed in people who are not gay or bisexual men.
“We’re finding where we’re looking,” Maria Van Kerkhove, a World Health Organization emerging diseases and zoonoses expert stated.
If this monkeypox outbreak does end up linked to sexual networks among men, that doesn’t mean it’s necessarily a sexually transmitted infection; it may simply be a question of who’s getting close enough to an infected person to get infected, themselves. Other germs spread by close (but not specifically sexual) contact have previously caused clusters of infections among gay and bisexual men and college-aged students, such as meningitis, a disease spread by respiratory droplets in close settings.
I think what ruffles the feathers more than anything is the fact that it’s targeted towards bi/gay males….. when it should say anyone that is likely to get naked with people you don’t know should do the following checks…
"
I get that and that and said you had made a reasonable observation before
That said - if there is a non STI transmission vector then it is not unreasonable to highlight that vector.
If it turns up in other networks then you would expect that announcement to be made. As yet it hasn’t turned up so the announcement hasn’t been made. I don’t think that is unreasonable from a scientific basis and it doesn’t make it “bashing” to highlight the network effect (to use your phrasing). |
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"Here is the WHO page outlining the UK cases: https://www.who.int/emergencies/disease-outbreak-news/item/2022-DON383
It does reference the fact that cases were reported via a sexual health clinic.
Yep your right it does…
After clinicians made the first few diagnoses among men coming to sexual health clinics with unusual rashes, health officials began asking sexual health clinics to look out for monkeypox cases. This doesn’t mean monkeypox is only circulating among men who have sex with men, and some infections have been diagnosed in people who are not gay or bisexual men.
“We’re finding where we’re looking,” Maria Van Kerkhove, a World Health Organization emerging diseases and zoonoses expert stated.
If this monkeypox outbreak does end up linked to sexual networks among men, that doesn’t mean it’s necessarily a sexually transmitted infection; it may simply be a question of who’s getting close enough to an infected person to get infected, themselves. Other germs spread by close (but not specifically sexual) contact have previously caused clusters of infections among gay and bisexual men and college-aged students, such as meningitis, a disease spread by respiratory droplets in close settings.
I think what ruffles the feathers more than anything is the fact that it’s targeted towards bi/gay males….. when it should say anyone that is likely to get naked with people you don’t know should do the following checks…
I get that and that and said you had made a reasonable observation before
That said - if there is a non STI transmission vector then it is not unreasonable to highlight that vector.
If it turns up in other networks then you would expect that announcement to be made. As yet it hasn’t turned up so the announcement hasn’t been made. I don’t think that is unreasonable from a scientific basis and it doesn’t make it “bashing” to highlight the network effect (to use your phrasing)."
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Here is the WHO page outlining the UK cases: https://www.who.int/emergencies/disease-outbreak-news/item/2022-DON383
It does reference the fact that cases were reported via a sexual health clinic.
Yes.
And if, as I said before, the four cases had been in straight people the press wouldn't mention sexuality would they?
It's possible these men have been in contact with each other - contact tracing is being done.
The disease is transmitted in a manner that a person of any sexuality is able to pass it on. So why bring sexuality into a report?
Was there a mention of their ages? Their ethnicities? Their nationalities?
No. Just one factor.
Why do you think that is?
A
Do you think someone, somewhere went 'Oh great, let's use this as an opportunity to bash bi/gay men'?
The UK press?
Fuck yes. They've been doing it for decades.
A"
It's not the UK press saying it though it's the UK Health Security Agency and the Chief Medical Adviser |
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This has been picked up by a number of sexual health orgs including the LGBTQ community. In Spain it has been tracked down to a sauna and has disproportionately impacted on the BI and Gay community.
I think it’s quite reasonable for a sexual health message however as I don’t have a dog in the fight BI or Gay wise I don’t have the perception as to how the message has come across.
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