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Does the why matter? Heavy Topic

By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Earlier found myself watching a Professor Green documentary as he tried to understand why his father took his own life.

For those that have taken this step or are plagued by the thoughts of it, they will have reasons why which are valid to them.

For me it was and is things like

Pressure to succeed

Not understanding my sexuality

Not dealing with my femme side very well when first emerged

Feelings of worthlessness and no point to my life.

A couple of these were echoed by others in the programme. Now many will say that these are all things that can be overcome in time and not worth taking the drastic step over. They may be right but for those going through it it may not feel that way.

One of the questions I was left with was for those left behind and affected does the why matter, does it in some way help them cope with the tragedy or does it make no difference?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I heard once that when someone is on the brink of committing suicide they feel that they are a burden to everyone in their life and they’d all be better off without them. I’ve felt really low at points in my life and had the ‘is it all worth it’ and ‘I’d be better off dead’ thoughts but knowing how much it would devastate the lives of my family has always stopped me ever considering actually doing anything. I’ve heard people say that suicide is a selfish act because of the heartbreak they leave behind and I used to think similarly until I heard that, it helped me understand how someone can go through with it.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Right, well... I'm all in. I may regret posting this tomorrow but here we are.

I had a go in my mid 20s. It seemed logical. The decision was a relief. I spent a week going round seeing all the people I loved to say goodbye, they didn't know it was goodbye of course. I gave away some precious things and had, as far as I thought at the time, wrapped it all up nicely. I was happy for the first time in years.

Come the day I had planned my flatmate stopped me. For which I'm grateful. I didn't know then that my life would be amazing or that I would learn to live with myself. It was a logical sensible decision in my youthful mind. It was a relief. It was a weight lifted. I was in control for once in my life. It was my choice.

I've lost a few to suicide. All young males. All beautiful humans. I'm glad I wasn't one of them, but I stand by their decisions as well as grieve for them. What else can we do?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Thanks for sharing that, there’s no reason to regret it tomorrow or any day. I’m glad to hear that your life’s amazing now.

May I ask what your flat mate said and/or did to stop you? I too have lost people to suicide and one of my best friends attempted it, I hate that I wasn’t able to see how bad things were for him and help him before it got to that point. If I knew someone was feeling suicidal I really wouldn’t know what to say to them so it would be interesting to know what your flat mate said in case I’m ever in that situation.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Thanks for sharing that, there’s no reason to regret it tomorrow or any day. I’m glad to hear that your life’s amazing now.

She threatened to kick the bathroom door in. She gave me a dressing down and all the love in the world. I don't remember the words or much of the following few weeks tbh. I guess the point I'm trying to get across was the relief I felt in having made the decision. It felt good.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Thanks for sharing that, there’s no reason to regret it tomorrow or any day. I’m glad to hear that your life’s amazing now.

I don’t think anyone can understand what it feels like to be in that position unless they’ve been there themselves, which is why it’s so difficult for people to deal with when a loved one does it. When I’ve been low the thought of suicide has scared me so I know I’ve never been close to that point but I have had a mini breakdown from stress and lost control of my mind and my personality changed completely so I understand how powerful the mind is and how we really can’t control it at times.

I’ve heard a lot of people talk about giving away their possessions once they’d decided they were going to do it. Is there any relevance to that or is it simply wanting to give people a reminder of you?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Thanks for sharing that, there’s no reason to regret it tomorrow or any day. I’m glad to hear that your life’s amazing now.

More like not wanting them to go in the bin or to someone I didn't love I think.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I lost my school friend to suicide in February 2007.

She had always said from the age of 16 that she did not want to live to be old. She did not want to live past 40. Who thinks that at age 16 she’d carry that out? No one really took her seriously, in hindsight we should have done, we should have made her family aware of it, got her some kind of help. Of course it didn’t help that she became anorexic too, in the end she was going on pro ana sites who were encouraging her to commit suicide. Her first try wasn’t successful, she was supposed to be at work that day but when she didn’t show up, they called her brother, he went round to her flat and found her, still alive but blood all over her flat. She was admitted to hospital and subsequently committed, for therapy. But over the next couple months she “seemed” to be making progress, she redecorated her flat, made sure they trusted her so she could spend weekends at home or with a family member…. Until that last weekend when she tried again. This time she succeeded.

It’s not always a “cry for help” sometimes it’s meant. That was 15 years ago. Wherever she is now, I hope she’s at peace.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The answer to the question "why" may seem important though when the only one who could answer truthfully is gone then the question will linger and serve to punish. If the individual is still available to be questioned there is a fair chance that they will lie or bend the truth or embelish it as we are all the hero in our own narrative and this might show that asking is likely to be fruitless.

Asking why or how of others usually puts people on the defencive. If you can re-work the question to start with "What" you might find your journey is clearer and more readily accessible.

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By *luebell888Woman over a year ago

Glasgowish

There is a programme on television tonight at 10 about Will Young and his twin brothers suicide. I think they also interview other families to see how losing their loved ones to suicide affected them as well. Well worth watching I think.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"There is a programme on television tonight at 10 about Will Young and his twin brothers suicide. I think they also interview other families to see how losing their loved ones to suicide affected them as well. Well worth watching I think."

Yeah, I want to watch this, his brother was alcoholic and addicted to pain killers wasn’t he? I saw an article about it and it said that the last time Will saw his brother he punched him which must have made it even harder for him to deal with. Even though Will had his brother staying at his house and he looked after him every day, he said every morning he had to clean the sick and wee up and then go out to buy him alcohol and get him some pills, I bet all he could think about was punching him.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Thanks to those that have shared personal stories

For those that have done it, those left behind may never fully understand why, even if a note is left. It made sense to the person at the time and that can be hard to accept.

A few close friends often tell me I am the opposite of what I think I am and while I want to believe them, there is some small part of me that can't fully accept what they say.

Its never an easy topic either for those going through it or those left behind.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Right, well... I'm all in. I may regret posting this tomorrow but here we are.

I've lost a few to suicide. All young males. All beautiful humans. I'm glad I wasn't one of them, but I stand by their decisions as well as grieve for them. What else can we do?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Earlier found myself watching a Professor Green documentary as he tried to understand why his father took his own life.

For those that have taken this step or are plagued by the thoughts of it, they will have reasons why which are valid to them.

For me it was and is things like

Pressure to succeed

Not understanding my sexuality

Not dealing with my femme side very well when first emerged

Feelings of worthlessness and no point to my life.

One of the questions I was left with was for those left behind and affected does the why matter, does it in some way help them cope with the tragedy or does it make no difference? "

Perhaps they just want to understand and process what happened. There needs to be a why.

For the person the why could be irrelevant, as you say.

I hope you have people to talk to. Xxxx

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By *ickshawedCouple over a year ago

Wolverhampton

My uncle killed himself in September 2020. We had no inkling anything was wrong. It was the most shocking, awful news ever.

At the time of course we wondered why. Perhaps I still would if he'd been a closer relative like my dad or brother. But for me the largest sadness was how much pain it caused us all. The pain to his wife and children. The agony to his mother. It was devastating, and she died of a broken heart 6 weeks later aged 89.

I still cry over the fact that he's gone. I don't know what sadness he was going through to make him do it, but I feel sad for him. But I also cry for my grandma, who lost her youngest child, and for my cousin who cut him down and did CPR for half an hour until the ambulance got there.

It's just desperately sad.

He left no note. The inquest found nothing. But it has left a pained family behind.

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By *tarflyLouWoman over a year ago

Preston

Sending love to all of those affected by suicide, it’s such a sad situation for all involved xx

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By *onkeynutWoman over a year ago

somewhere

Yes, the ‘why’ matters. Why did they feel that was their only option? why didn’t they ask for help? why didn’t we see the signs? why would they do that to family and people that care for them?

All totally normal feelings and not having the answers make the grief and loss harder to process.

I lost a very close person to suicide. I still feel guilt for not seeing that something was wrong, that he was in such a bad place that he saw no other option and I still wonder ‘why?’ So yes, it matters.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The why always matters to those on the edge

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By *ablo minibar123Woman over a year ago

When I was younger my best friend committed suicide, we can assume why but will never know for sure, and yes I feel that knowing why would help a fair few people who knew him.

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By *jorkishMan over a year ago

Seaforth

Sometimes knowing why makes it harder. I found my dad hanging, I noticed he was gasping slightly and got him down. He survived. I asked him why and he said it was losing your mum and I wouldn't understand. That flabbergasted me. I lost my mum, but a year before his attempt I'd also lost my wife! And he said I wouldn't understand! Told him that if anyone understood it would be me

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By *haneportsMan over a year ago

portsmouth

"Sending love to all of those affected by suicide, it’s such a sad situation for all involved xx"

Well said. Never make a permanent decision in a temporary situation.

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By *haneportsMan over a year ago

portsmouth

There are many more reasons why than the OPs suggestions, not a criticism OP.

It’s been a thread in my life with people I know & with depression, a confused or troubled mind is deeply sad to see.

It’s known in psychology that many suicides were reported to be so happy that day, ‘we were only laughing just hours ago.’ It’s that the decision has been made & things will be over soon.

It devastates people around them but knowing why does help some in the healing after.

Never make a permanent decision in a temporary situation. Talk to someone. Please!

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By *heGateKeeperMan over a year ago

Stratford

To a lot of people yes. I generally associate this with ‘closure’ particularly if people feel some sort of blame or guilt.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I think it's incredibly shit to call the person who died, "selfish" for leaving people behind.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I'm very sorry to read that others have lost people they cared about to suicide. I can completely understand that not having questions answered adds to the distress.

Like MoonGreyCat, I attempted when I was young - a family member came home unexpectedly and I was taken to hospital in time. I've had the desire since then but not acted on it. People say it's a selfish act, which of course it is.

Try to imagine the pain that someone is in - that they find existing so distressing because they see no hope in the future. Their head is full every second of the day of negative thoughts. They cannot see any light, they cannot find any positives. They're just drowning in a huge endless black nightmare with no exit. That's what wanting to kill yourself feels like. You just want the pain to end and cannot see how much it would hurt others because you see yourself as worthless.

Sorry to be so dark but I hoped it might help someone to share that.

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By *RANDMRSJAECouple over a year ago

chester

It’s when it’s the people who you’d least expect. I know of a few in the last 10 years and seen the effect on their families. The one that will always remain a mystery is a close friend’s mum. She was much loved but took her own life in her late 60’s. The note was terse and put the onus of responsibility on my friend & her sister.

She wouldn’t have been in the right frame of mind to consider the consequences or whether it was selfish.

I know of a chap who recently left his family penniless as a result of it, they don’t get any life insurance! Yes, I definitely think he was selfish - his young family were on the brink of homelessness.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

A friends young child took their life due to bullying, utterly heartbreaking. You can imagine the impact on the parents.

Another friend, a very successful person, but who considered themself the black sheep of their family next to their insanely successful siblings and parents, ended it one day

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By *ea monkeyMan over a year ago

Manchester (he/him)

The why does matter, it’s only then that we can learn to be better and to help prevent it.

Ok…

So I’ve had suicide ideation in patches throughout my adult life. I’ve had depression and anxiety since my teenage years, mostly I manage it, sometimes I don’t.

When I don’t manage it, it’s a constant battle with feeling like a burden, being in mental pain so strong that it feels almost physical. It makes me feel like a failure, useless and completely alone (whether I am or not). It’s then that the thoughts come.

It’s not a selfish act, although it can be depending on how you choose to do it, it’s the only way to escape and to relieve the pain.

For me, it’s always been about feeling alone, trying to reach out to others but getting rebuffed, being unable to express myself with others and them not caring.

If we’re going to prevent suicide, from my personal experiences, we as society need to do better at listening and supporting others, looking for signs and acting on them. Not thinking ‘I’m tired, I’ll call them next week’, not ignoring the trigger words they’re using, not avoiding them because they make you feel sad.

Yes, many people don’t show signs and there’s nothing that could be done, as MGC posted; they made their minds up and it was a relief. For others, they’re struggling and it can be seen.

Reach out to them and offer a hand, it could save a life

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By *annaBeStrongMan over a year ago

wokingham

I’ve thought about it but I have so much stuff to sort out. I’d hate to go out and leave a bunch of stuff for ky family to fix. I’d need a skip to throw all my stuff away, cancel all my subscriptions, end my tenancy and get the flat in good shape, finish all my work at work so the new guy can start fresh with no loose ends to pick up

It’s just a lot of effort. Staying alive seems easier for now.

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By *haneportsMan over a year ago

portsmouth

"I think it's incredibly shit to call the person who died, "selfish" for leaving people behind. "

I’ve never been a believer that it’s selfish to commit suicide but many sadly do. Well said.

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By *haneportsMan over a year ago

portsmouth

"The why does matter, it’s only then that we can learn to be better and to help prevent it.

Ok…

So I’ve had suicide ideation in patches throughout my adult life. I’ve had depression and anxiety since my teenage years, mostly I manage it, sometimes I don’t.

It’s not a selfish act, although it can be depending on how you choose to do it, it’s the only way to escape and to relieve the pain.

For me, it’s always been about feeling alone, trying to reach out to others but getting rebuffed, being unable to express myself with others and them not caring.

Yes, many people don’t show signs and there’s nothing that could be done, as MGC posted; they made their minds up and it was a relief. For others, they’re struggling and it can be seen.

Reach out to them and offer a hand, it could save a life"

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I think it's incredibly shit to call the person who died, "selfish" for leaving people behind.

I’ve never been a believer that it’s selfish to commit suicide but many sadly do. Well said."

Surely it is said in hope of dissuading others and making them think about the impact left on those you leave behind so that they will not take a similar action?

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By *ora the explorerWoman over a year ago

Paradise, Herts

"I think it's incredibly shit to call the person who died, "selfish" for leaving people behind.

I’ve never been a believer that it’s selfish to commit suicide but many sadly do. Well said."

Me neither but I can see why people do. It’s often seen as selfish or “the easy way out”. If you’re the spouse left with grieving children and no money etc I can see why someone could feel like that way, especially as they could have been struggling too.

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By *ryandseeMan over a year ago

Yorkshire

I know I should not have read this thread. It has made me so sad in so many ways and made me think of a very dear friend I lost years back and the pain everyone left behind went through but also what they must have be going through to drive them to it. So sad.

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By *osey WalesMan over a year ago

Surrey

Not trying to make a flipant statement but there is a song called "the magicians assistant" by Scrubious Pip. Not really my typw of music but when i had some very dark thoughts a number of years ago this song appeared out somewhere for me and made me think in a slightly different way. I still at times think i could just turn the steering wheel slightly and go straight into that big tree and stop all the pain i have caused to some of my nearest and dearest. But again, that song comes to mind. The pain i think i would be stopping i am only adding too.

I make the choices and the mistakes and i now deal with those consequences.

Not saying its the riggt way or right for everyone.

Just works for me or maybe its how i justify it. Dont know.

To all those out there, The Samaritans are a wonderful organisation and so not get enough credit for the support that they give.

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By *icearmsMan over a year ago

KIDLINGTON

I lost my brother in law to suicide. It was after a number of years of depression and anxiety. He was only 26 at the time.

The why? I'm not sure it ever helped the family. If anything it made it worse. That sense of not being able to help him. Not realising how bad he was. In reality he hid it well and had even been on a summer holiday and laughing and joking just a month before he took his life.

Not a day goes by without wondering if there was anything we could have done to stop him. I think the answer I am comming to rest with is no. As a family we did a lot to support him. Made it easy to get to family functions etc by picking him up when a train journey seemed too much to do. Made allowances for his sudden changes in mood that could affect a whole day planned etc. We never begrudged it as we knew how he was.

10 years on I think my ex and her family have finally come to terms with it, and each day is easier to cope. But it brings its own strains out in different ways. My son is currently suffering with mental health issues. That in itself makes everyone worry that he's on the same path as his uncle. Who knows? Everyone else is hyper conscious of past events and maybe that will be something that means my son will get through his rough patch and no harm will come to him. The other concern is smothering him to try and protect him and that has a negative impact.

Sorry I waffled here.. but in summary knowing why doesn't always help.. its the sudden loss of a loves one that rips through your heart and soul, and you just need plenty of time to recover and build your life after such event.

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By *atalie..Woman over a year ago

Bolton

The why matters to me.

Hence my thread on why men don't talk.

In 13 months 3 men I know have hung themselves.

3 much loved men,much needed men, men that were so involved in family life.

2 of which have left young children behind to deal with their own shit when older, what do they say in the future to questions of weres your dad, why's your dad not walking you down the isle, why's your dad not your best man.

The feeling of not being good enough is passed on to the future generations and the cycle begins again,the kid's asking why am I not enough for my dad to stay in this world, then the teenager with depression, then the adult who takes his life leaving kids behind yet again

Suicide boils my piss and gets me so fucking angry

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Thanks again for the personal stories.

I did not write the thread to trigger anyone, more to try and understand better.

I know there are many reasons why, the few I quoted are some of the reasons I think about it regularly.

I am trying to get help but does not always work but gives me a little hope I want to change.

One of the saddest things about the documentary was on the day he did it the father set out to go to Mind but changed his mind.

Some people think they are beyond help , unworthy of help or help won't make a difference.

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By *hesblokeMan over a year ago

Derbyshire village

Lost two friends to suicide, one was so out of the blue all the people he worked with were just stunned. I still think of him, he and I used to have a song that we'd sing to in the mornings and any time I think of it I have to sit down for a minute.

The other chose a gruesome way to go, and that was really fucking difficult to process.

Idk why I'm even typing this, got no advice or anything to give and it was half my life ago.

Funny old world isn't it?

I strongly considered it as a younger chap, and if it wasn't for Mrs c and getting to the GP for some help I probably wouldn't be here.

Love yourselves and others, folks.

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By *ty31Man over a year ago

NW London

I think there's still a certain taboo surrounding the decision to end one's life, maybe as a hangover from our society's Christian roots?

For those loved ones the "why" sometimes becomes important in both understanding someone's decision and whether their own actions or inactions played any part. Perhaps by trying to understand and rationalize they will perhaps be better aware to spot similar warning signs in others in the future?

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By *pursChick aka ShortieWoman over a year ago

On a mooch

Seen it all too much through my life, friends (all men) who succeeded and those that didn’t thankfully.

All of them, bar one, you wouldn’t have had a clue they were suffering as were always smiling, life of a crowd.

Those that have survived, the consistent message after talking to them, was they felt they couldn’t talk to anyone about how they were feeling, felt they would be dismissed as being daft or laughed at.

For one survivor, a forces man who struggled with what he had witnessed, his second attempt helped his old colleagues open up about their feelings. He was far from alone in what he was going through and they now all openly talk to each other about the past or any other problems they are experiencing.

It is natural to ask ‘why’ after the event, it’s too late then. We need to spot it earlier, make it not so much a stigma to have these dark thoughts, to make it more acceptable for those suffering to feel like they can talk to people (even strangers) without being laughed off & subject changed.

Be willing to listen, I mean actually listen, without judgment or interrupting or dismissing their feelings.

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By *ea monkeyMan over a year ago

Manchester (he/him)

"Seen it all too much through my life, friends (all men) who succeeded and those that didn’t thankfully.

All of them, bar one, you wouldn’t have had a clue they were suffering as were always smiling, life of a crowd.

Be willing to listen, I mean actually listen, without judgment or interrupting or dismissing their feelings.

I agree.

Actually listening is a skill though.

Not trying to fix the problem, solve the issue or make it go away, just listening without judgement.

Many people can’t do that and often the person just needs to be heard.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I think it's incredibly shit to call the person who died, "selfish" for leaving people behind.

I’ve never been a believer that it’s selfish to commit suicide but many sadly do. Well said.

Surely it is said in hope of dissuading others and making them think about the impact left on those you leave behind so that they will not take a similar action? "

It's just another nail in their coffin.

They are selfish for feeling suicidal and hence worthless.

Yet another burden on them.

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By *pursChick aka ShortieWoman over a year ago

On a mooch

"Seen it all too much through my life, friends (all men) who succeeded and those that didn’t thankfully.

All of them, bar one, you wouldn’t have had a clue they were suffering as were always smiling, life of a crowd.

Be willing to listen, I mean actually listen, without judgment or interrupting or dismissing their feelings.

I agree.

Actually listening is a skill though.

Not trying to fix the problem, solve the issue or make it go away, just listening without judgement.

Many people can’t do that and often the person just needs to be heard.

Agree it is a skill and many do struggle with it, wanting to try and fix.

I spent the last three years of my job doing just that and the day job took second fiddle.

Not surprisingly, our team was all made up of those that had been through it themselves.

Our company was shocked at how busy the 8 of us were day to day, it was certainly an eye opener for them.

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