FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > UNequality

UNequality

By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

So, there's a gay only club just opened to the applause of many.

Why do I find myself feeling angry at this? I'm not a homophobe, but I wonder what reaction there would be if I opened a hetro only bar?

Women only/men only/black only/white only...Surely any kind of segregation, regardless of its original motive is wrong?

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By *oe_Steve_NWestCouple over a year ago

Bolton

surely any one can go in - how can they prove you're not gay? Don't get your knickers in a twist! Z

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Well it openly advertises itself as a gay only establishment

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By *reelove1969Couple over a year ago

bristol

loads of gay clubs where we used to live .. infact a whole part of town was just gay bars and clubs .. i thought this was the same everywhere to be honest

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By *oe_Steve_NWestCouple over a year ago

Bolton

I get that - how can they tell? Z

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago
Forum Mod

Good for them I hope that its successful and allows gay people to be open and enjoy themselves without any of the prejudice they get in some hetro places

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Is it a gay sex club or a gay vanilla club and if your not gay why would you want to go in there anyway.

Its not like Canal Street lol its just one club x

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Never been made to feel unwelcome in a gay nightclub. But would not dream of crashing a sex club on a gay night. Horses for courses.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I just find it weird anyone going to places not specifically designed for them, or indeed within their interest.

its like me walking into a known neonazi club and asking why they are being horrid or dismissive to me...

theres being PC and theres having common sense

I mix both

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

I don't think you're getting my point.

I have no issues with gay bars, I've done Canal street and had a right laugh. I have great gay friends etc. My issue is that there's a separation policy in place that actively promotes a "you're not one of us" mentality. Surely we should be trying to accept that there should be no barriers, and no segregation in these things as we're all equal!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I don't think you're getting my point.

and we all have preferances..that makes individuals or groups stick to those with things in common.

do u invite non-swingers to swingers nites?

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By *rightonsteveMan over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

Loads of places in Brighton say 'gay friendly' or have rainbow stickers but none say 'gay only'....and like the thread above...how would they know? You could go in, enjoy yourself and leave but on the way out shout "ha! Ha! I'm off to see my GIRLFriend!" and then run away laughing.

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By *oe_Steve_NWestCouple over a year ago

Bolton

"I don't think you're getting my point.

If you really want to go in, do so, can't see the problem really. Z

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"So, there's a gay only club just opened to the applause of many.

Why do I find myself feeling angry at this? I'm not a homophobe, but I wonder what reaction there would be if I opened a hetro only bar?

Women only/men only/black only/white only...Surely any kind of segregation, regardless of its original motive is wrong?"

Have we gone back in time? Have gay clubs not been around for, well decades?

But to address your point, I suspect pretty much every bar or club you venture in you will not be at risk of being abused, mocked, threatened or even attacked for being heterosexual. Sadly even in this day and age the same is not true for homosexuals.

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By *B9 QueenWoman over a year ago

Over the rainbow, under the bridge

If it is a private members club they can refuse entry to anyone they choose. Much like some British Legions have done in the past.

But if it is simply a place open to the public anyone can go in.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Why do you think clubs have bi nights. So they can feel free and open to do what they want. Two guys cant have sex in an open area on a normal night. I would certainly enjoy the view but others may not. I hope that sounds right x

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"So, there's a gay only club just opened to the applause of many.

Why do I find myself feeling angry at this? I'm not a homophobe, but I wonder what reaction there would be if I opened a hetro only bar?

Women only/men only/black only/white only...Surely any kind of segregation, regardless of its original motive is wrong?

Have we gone back in time? Have gay clubs not been around for, well decades?

I think I understand your point. I often think the same when I see "black history month", advertised in Birmingham. I know they are being pc but they wouldn't have a "white history month" for fear of offending. But surely it works both ways. You cant have a "straight only" club so why are you allowed to have a "gays only"?saying all that, I used to go to some excellent gay clubs in brum, such great atmosphere x

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I don't think you're getting my point.

and we all have preferances..that makes individuals or groups stick to those with things in common.

do u invite non-swingers to swingers nites?"

I think the point being made is that 'minorities' don't seem to have to conform to the same level of political correctness as everyone else does.

Comdey is a great example, Steve Amis will make fun of caucasians yet if Frankie Boyle mocks any minority there is a massive backlash from the PC brigade!

There are 'gay only' hotels in London yet if a hostel advertised as being 'hetro only' they would be prosecuted as happened recently.

Similarly, some people say the only meet black men which is, of course, totally their prorogative. Yet people who say they don't want to meet men of certain ethnicities get abuse for being 'racist' and have to add to their profile an apologetic explanation.

I agree with you that common sense is needed but its often in short supply!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I don't think you're getting my point.

and we all have preferances..that makes individuals or groups stick to those with things in common.

do u invite non-swingers to swingers nites?

I think the point being made is that 'minorities' don't seem to have to conform to the same level of political correctness as everyone else does.

Comdey is a great example, Steve Amis will make fun of caucasians yet if Frankie Boyle mocks any minority there is a massive backlash from the PC brigade!

There are 'gay only' hotels in London yet if a hostel advertised as being 'hetro only' they would be prosecuted as happened recently.

I agree with you that common sense is needed but its often in short supply!

Did'nt a hotel or b&b manager get taken to court because she refused access to a gay couple x

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"So, there's a gay only club just opened to the applause of many.

Why do I find myself feeling angry at this? I'm not a homophobe, but I wonder what reaction there would be if I opened a hetro only bar?

Women only/men only/black only/white only...Surely any kind of segregation, regardless of its original motive is wrong?

Have we gone back in time? Have gay clubs not been around for, well decades?

Yes, Black History Month is about "being pc" - seriously is that what you believe the motive and origins of it is?

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By *yrdwomanWoman over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

When whites and heteros have lived through as much discrimination as blacks and gays have, we can start complaining. If they want a place they can go without being sneered or laughed at for a while then I am all for it. There are plenty of places left for the rest of us to visit.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I don't think you're getting my point.

and we all have preferances..that makes individuals or groups stick to those with things in common.

do u invite non-swingers to swingers nites?

I think the point being made is that 'minorities' don't seem to have to conform to the same level of political correctness as everyone else does.

Comdey is a great example, Steve Amis will make fun of caucasians yet if Frankie Boyle mocks any minority there is a massive backlash from the PC brigade!

There are 'gay only' hotels in London yet if a hostel advertised as being 'hetro only' they would be prosecuted as happened recently.

I agree with you that common sense is needed but its often in short supply!

Did'nt a hotel or b&b manager get taken to court because she refused access to a gay couple x"

Yes they got prosecuted last month. The B&B had a policy of not allowing any unmarried couples to share a room.

Can you imagine swingers booking to stay there lol

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By *exki11enWoman over a year ago

Bristol

I think the point being made is that 'minorities' don't seem to have to conform to the same level of political correctness as everyone else does.

The "minorities" being pretty much every section of society except men!

Men have had it good for too many years. They don't like it when it's them being excluded though do they?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I don't think you're getting my point.

and we all have preferances..that makes individuals or groups stick to those with things in common.

do u invite non-swingers to swingers nites?

I think the point being made is that 'minorities' don't seem to have to conform to the same level of political correctness as everyone else does.

Comdey is a great example, Steve Amis will make fun of caucasians yet if Frankie Boyle mocks any minority there is a massive backlash from the PC brigade!

There are 'gay only' hotels in London yet if a hostel advertised as being 'hetro only' they would be prosecuted as happened recently.

I agree with you that common sense is needed but its often in short supply!

I dont like most standup comedians anyway, so couldnt give a fuck lol

are ann summers parties the same?...men cant join in with the fun in most cases...can i be a rep for them?...

the more people of any group including minorities start having a bee in their bonnet about something that really isnt designed for them or in their interests thats when i question the motivation.

maybe to stand and poke fun?...

isnt there a wealth of other places?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Christ on a bike. I've been in gay bars and clubs in Dundee and Leeds with my uncle (straight) and his pals (gay) when I was barely out of my teens. People go on about the terrible un-pc '70's yet we all managed to get on fine alongside each other.

The only difference between then and now ? We didn't talk about it - it was accepted then without explanation, proclamation or fuss .... it just was.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I think the point being made is that 'minorities' don't seem to have to conform to the same level of political correctness as everyone else does.

The "minorities" being pretty much every section of society except men!

Men have had it good for too many years. They don't like it when it's them being excluded though do they? "

Well to be precise: white, straight, able bodied men lol

I guess on a serious note, I don't think it's ok to discriminate against anyone.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"So, there's a gay only club just opened to the applause of many.

Why do I find myself feeling angry at this? I'm not a homophobe, but I wonder what reaction there would be if I opened a hetro only bar?

Women only/men only/black only/white only...Surely any kind of segregation, regardless of its original motive is wrong?

Have we gone back in time? Have gay clubs not been around for, well decades?

Yes, Black History Month is about "being pc" - seriously is that what you believe the motive and origins of it is?

Yes it is. Political correctness is neo-liberal. To the neo-liberals who came along with the neo-conservatives in the eighties , as Tony Benn put it "all inequalities became fashionable except the most important one, ie economic inequality".Neo-liberals would like to brush aside economic inequality and pretend that for example all 'black' people have much in common with each other simply because they are the same colour just as they would like to pretend that all women have much in common with each other just because they are women. The truth is, that a 'black' miner, probably has far more in common with a 'white' miner than he does with a 'black' rich businessman, and my mother, who was a union representative in Tescos and is a socialist, has more in common with a male miner than she does with a rich woman, as she told that well-known rich neo-liberal woman Germaine Greer.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"So, there's a gay only club just opened to the applause of many.

Why do I find myself feeling angry at this? I'm not a homophobe, but I wonder what reaction there would be if I opened a hetro only bar?

Women only/men only/black only/white only...Surely any kind of segregation, regardless of its original motive is wrong?

Have we gone back in time? Have gay clubs not been around for, well decades?

Yes, Black History Month is about "being pc" - seriously is that what you believe the motive and origins of it is?

"
no! What I'm saying is there would be uproar if there was a "white history month" or even mowo awards?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I don't think you're getting my point.

and we all have preferances..that makes individuals or groups stick to those with things in common.

do u invite non-swingers to swingers nites?

I think the point being made is that 'minorities' don't seem to have to conform to the same level of political correctness as everyone else does.

Comdey is a great example, Steve Amis will make fun of caucasians yet if Frankie Boyle mocks any minority there is a massive backlash from the PC brigade!

There are 'gay only' hotels in London yet if a hostel advertised as being 'hetro only' they would be prosecuted as happened recently.

I agree with you that common sense is needed but its often in short supply!

I dont like most standup comedians anyway, so couldnt give a fuck lol

are ann summers parties the same?...men cant join in with the fun in most cases...can i be a rep for them?...

the more people of any group including minorities start having a bee in their bonnet about something that really isnt designed for them or in their interests thats when i question the motivation.

maybe to stand and poke fun?...

isnt there a wealth of other places?"

Please tell me you're going to apply to be an Ann Summers rep to try it out lol!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

For me the best night of the week used to be gay night in the clubs usually a Tuesday dont know why but used to love the music and be able to dance like a wally all night long without being hit on x

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By *yrdwomanWoman over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

"no! What I'm saying is there would be uproar if there was a "white history month" or even mowo awards? "

Every month is white history month. All music awards are MoWo awards. I think we can spare them the odd affirmative action don't you?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I stayed in a man only gay guest house in Berlin a few years back.

One day, a muslim lady came to check in to her room. A reservation had been made in error and a language barrier was probably to blame.

The guys that run the guesthouse showed her round, showed her the facilities and explained what the set up was, but made it quite clear that providing she was comfortable, she was more than welcome to stay.

She decided that it wasn't for her and the guys logged into the PC, found her alternative accomodation and also took her to that accomodation.

When they returned, they also said that they had refunded the ladies deposit as an obvious error had been made not of her making and that as it was weekend, they would no issues in re-renting the room.

Not once throughout all this was any fuss made on their behalf - or on hers - and there was no obvious embarrasment on behalf of either party.

I thought the whole way it was handled was fantastic.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"no! What I'm saying is there would be uproar if there was a "white history month" or even mowo awards?

Every month is white history month. All music awards are MoWo awards. I think we can spare them the odd affirmative action don't you?"

Let me ask were the white people slaved and were they made a second or third rate citizen were you sent to prison for being white um no x

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"no! What I'm saying is there would be uproar if there was a "white history month" or even mowo awards?

Every month is white history month. All music awards are MoWo awards. I think we can spare them the odd affirmative action don't you?"

So the Brits and the grammys are only for music of white origin are they?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I stayed in a man only gay guest house in Berlin a few years back.

One day, a muslim lady came to check in to her room. A reservation had been made in error and a language barrier was probably to blame.

She decided that it wasn't for her and the guys logged into the PC, found her alternative accomodation and also took her to that accomodation.

Not once throughout all this was any fuss made on their behalf - or on hers - and there was no obvious embarrasment on behalf of either party.

I thought the whole way it was handled was fantastic."

Life's so much more enjoyable when people are like that!

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By *yrdwomanWoman over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

"no! What I'm saying is there would be uproar if there was a "white history month" or even mowo awards?

Every month is white history month. All music awards are MoWo awards. I think we can spare them the odd affirmative action don't you?

So the Brits and the grammys are only for music of white origin are they?"

Not compulsory, but you'd be surprised just how much 'white' is in modern music. Just because the singer is black, doesn't mean the writer and producer is.

I wonder why no-one ever complains about Bollywood, or have I just opened another floodgate?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"So, there's a gay only club just opened to the applause of many.

Why do I find myself feeling angry at this? I'm not a homophobe, but I wonder what reaction there would be if I opened a hetro only bar?

Women only/men only/black only/white only...Surely any kind of segregation, regardless of its original motive is wrong?

Have we gone back in time? Have gay clubs not been around for, well decades?

Yes, Black History Month is about "being pc" - seriously is that what you believe the motive and origins of it is?

no! What I'm saying is there would be uproar if there was a "white history month" or even mowo awards? "

Ok, I'm confused. When you said "I know they are being PC" what did you mean?

But you are spectacularly missing the point, almost all history that is taught in schools is white history. As for music, again an industry dominated by white males. Arguably all awards except the MOBO's are a celebration of white music. The MOBO's are beginning to redress that imbalance. Which is the very point of them.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"no! What I'm saying is there would be uproar if there was a "white history month" or even mowo awards?

Every month is white history month. All music awards are MoWo awards. I think we can spare them the odd affirmative action don't you?

Let me ask were the white people slaved and were they made a second or third rate citizen were you sent to prison for being white um no x"

For gods sake, I'm not disputing any of that happened. I'm saying that why is it ok to have "black history month" mobo awards, gay pride but its not acceptable to have white history or mowo awards or heterosexual pride for fear of offending anyone? I am not offended by gay pride, black history etc so why should it not work both ways without causing offence?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"no! What I'm saying is there would be uproar if there was a "white history month" or even mowo awards?

Every month is white history month. All music awards are MoWo awards. I think we can spare them the odd affirmative action don't you?

Let me ask were the white people slaved and were they made a second or third rate citizen were you sent to prison for being white um no x"

White people have been made slaves, it happened all the time throughout history.

The difference between that and the slave trade in the 1800's was the sheer scale and that it coincided with the Enlightenment movement which made people increasingly uncomfortable about the practise. Also,it's not often remembered that a lot of the slave trade involved Africans selling Africans (often captured from rival tribes) into slavery to the Europeans.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"So, there's a gay only club just opened to the applause of many.

Why do I find myself feeling angry at this? I'm not a homophobe, but I wonder what reaction there would be if I opened a hetro only bar?

Women only/men only/black only/white only...Surely any kind of segregation, regardless of its original motive is wrong?

Have we gone back in time? Have gay clubs not been around for, well decades?

Yes, Black History Month is about "being pc" - seriously is that what you believe the motive and origins of it is?

no! What I'm saying is there would be uproar if there was a "white history month" or even mowo awards?

Ok, I'm confused. When you said "I know they are being PC" what did you mean?

Ok, I will agree that I could have worded it better. However, as to the music awards, as most of todays modern music has its origins in black music, there should just be music awards, regardless of its white or black origins.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I don't think you're getting my point.

E & D

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

" Yes it is. Political correctness is neo-liberal. To the neo-liberals who came along with the neo-conservatives in the eighties , as Tony Benn put it "all inequalities became fashionable except the most important one, ie economic inequality".Neo-liberals would like to brush aside economic inequality and pretend that for example all 'black' people have much in common with each other simply because they are the same colour just as they would like to pretend that all women have much in common with each other just because they are women. The truth is, that a 'black' miner, probably has far more in common with a 'white' miner than he does with a 'black' rich businessman, and my mother, who was a union representative in Tescos and is a socialist, has more in common with a male miner than she does with a rich woman, as she told that well-known rich neo-liberal woman Germaine Greer."

Now that would have been a conversation worth hearing! Kudos to your Mum!

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By *rightonsteveMan over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

I once went to a gay bar in Brighton. "Are you gay?" demanded the bouncer, "no", I said, " I'm a miserable bastard".

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I once went to a gay bar in Brighton. "Are you gay?" demanded the bouncer, "no", I said, " I'm a miserable bastard". "

That's too good to be a true tale haha

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By *phroditeWoman over a year ago

(She/ her) in Sensualityland

Maybe I am missing something here... but if I went into a bar to have a drink I would not care whether they are gay, straight sun or devil worshippers as I am going for a drink.

If I choose to go to a club... I would want to know because if it was mainly focussed on attracting gay people then it probably would not be my scene.

Am I missing something here?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Maybe I am missing something here... but if I went into a bar to have a drink I would not care whether they are gay, straight sun or devil worshippers as I am going for a drink.

If I choose to go to a club... I would want to know because if it was mainly focussed on attracting gay people then it probably would not be my scene.

Am I missing something here?

Yes, you're missing 'choice'

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Maybe I am missing something here... but if I went into a bar to have a drink I would not care whether they are gay, straight sun or devil worshippers as I am going for a drink.

If I choose to go to a club... I would want to know because if it was mainly focussed on attracting gay people then it probably would not be my scene.

Am I missing something here?

I think I'd choose sun worshippers personally!

The original comment was about a club not allowing straight people in.

By the way, I love the lighting in your photos!

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By *aucy3Couple over a year ago

glasgow

i can see the op's point.

it's ironic that people who are discriminated against,do not see a problem,

in setting up clubs,or awards,that discriminates against others.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Next UP...couples ONLY rooms in clubs...surely that shouldnt be allowed..SURELY...

who agrees on the above stupid statement?

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By *yrdwomanWoman over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

"Next UP...couples ONLY rooms in clubs...surely that shouldnt be allowed..SURELY...

who agrees on the above stupid statement?"

Or couples only nights at clubs that allow single women in. Not that I'd go (no single men = no fun) but it seems a bit off to me.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Next UP...couples ONLY rooms in clubs...surely that shouldnt be allowed..SURELY...

who agrees on the above stupid statement?"

I don't think there was anything wrong with the original thread, even if you don't agree with it. Technically, the original point raised a question of legality, where as your one above doesn't

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Next UP...couples ONLY rooms in clubs...surely that shouldnt be allowed..SURELY...

who agrees on the above stupid statement?

I don't think there was anything wrong with the original thread, even if you don't agree with it. Technically, the original point raised a question of legality, where as your one above doesn't

my statement was stupid lol..it didnt concern the OPs...

we are talking about a private club, refusing entry to those they do not wish to enter...it is not the same thing as a public place turning away people based on orientation.

If there is a straight white hetro club on the go..I wont try enter....as its pointless...and dare I say childish to attempt to do so, just to cause trouble.Let people have their fun and preferences, while being within the law

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Next UP...couples ONLY rooms in clubs...surely that shouldnt be allowed..SURELY...

who agrees on the above stupid statement?

I don't think there was anything wrong with the original thread, even if you don't agree with it. Technically, the original point raised a question of legality, where as your one above doesn't

my statement was stupid lol..it didnt concern the OPs...

we are talking about a private club, refusing entry to those they do not wish to enter...it is not the same thing as a public place turning away people based on orientation.

There are the working mens clubs and what are those gentleman clubs etc

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"i can see the op's point.

it's ironic that people who are discriminated against,do not see a problem,

in setting up clubs,or awards,that discriminates against others.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Next UP...couples ONLY rooms in clubs...surely that shouldnt be allowed..SURELY...

who agrees on the above stupid statement?

I don't think there was anything wrong with the original thread, even if you don't agree with it. Technically, the original point raised a question of legality, where as your one above doesn't

my statement was stupid lol..it didnt concern the OPs...

we are talking about a private club, refusing entry to those they do not wish to enter...it is not the same thing as a public place turning away people based on orientation.

There are the working mens clubs and what are those gentleman clubs etc"

i know the handshakes..sometimes its even a shake of each other...winkwink

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Next UP...couples ONLY rooms in clubs...surely that shouldnt be allowed..SURELY...

who agrees on the above stupid statement?

I don't think there was anything wrong with the original thread, even if you don't agree with it. Technically, the original point raised a question of legality, where as your one above doesn't

my statement was stupid lol..it didnt concern the OPs...

we are talking about a private club, refusing entry to those they do not wish to enter...it is not the same thing as a public place turning away people based on orientation.

There are the working mens clubs and what are those gentleman clubs etc

i know the handshakes..sometimes its even a shake of each other...winkwink"

That would be an interesting way to get entry to a club lol

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By *icketysplitsWoman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

If the club is open to the public and advertising itself as open to ONLY gay people the point that has already been made, how will you prove you are not gay? Have you been and tried to be served? If you are refused service then there may be a case to answer.

On the general point of 'pc' for specialist clubs, nights, awards... I am weary. The reason these are still needed is because discrimination still exists. If you want a straight, white and proud march and awards set them up. You know why there isn't one though, don't you? Most sensible people will look at who is entered into the existing general awards and how wins then and recognise that somehow there really aren't that many black people, gay people, disabled people or women.

Name the last black winner of the Booker Prize? The Classical Music Awards? I bet you'd find it easier to name the white winners of the MOBOs.

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By *riendly foeWoman over a year ago

In a crisp poke on the A814

Understand the point the OP is making...

Not 100% sure but I think they can, legally, get away with it....

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"If the club is open to the public and advertising itself as open to ONLY gay people the point that has already been made, how will you prove you are not gay? Have you been and tried to be served? If you are refused service then there may be a case to answer.

Name the last black winner of the Booker Prize? The Classical Music Awards? I bet you'd find it easier to name the white winners of the MOBOs."
why does there have to beva black winner orca white winner, surely there should just be a winner?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Name the last black winner of the Booker Prize? The Classical Music Awards? I bet you'd find it easier to name the white winners of the MOBOs."
. I have a very severely disabled nephew who just wants to be recognised as a person not a disabled person!

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By *icketysplitsWoman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

Name the last black winner of the Booker Prize? The Classical Music Awards? I bet you'd find it easier to name the white winners of the MOBOs.why does there have to beva black winner orca white winner, surely there should just be a winner?"

I keep hoping that day will come. Just as I hope for gender pay equality. The point is that people in power, for want of a better way of looking at it, choose people like them.

The music industry is generally considered to be equal - black people = good at music etc. Look at the Mercury Prize shortlist and winners, just tonight. How many are black, how many are women? I am sure the winners have worked hard but multiple discrimination factors lead to multiple discrimination.

R4 Woman's Hour has had a week of putting together a 100 most powerful women list. The debate is polarised as there are plenty of women saying that surely we are beyond this now. Look at the stats - how many women are on the boards of FTSE companies? How many women in parliament?

Very simply, we are not there yet.

I want the children and young people I know to feel equal in every way. What I find is that the older they get the more the realities of being black or mixed heritage or female or disabled hit home and they struggle.

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By *aucy3Couple over a year ago

glasgow

"Next UP...couples ONLY rooms in clubs...surely that shouldnt be allowed..SURELY...

who agrees on the above stupid statement?"

why such an aggressive reply,i simply pointed out the obvious.

cant you see the irony in the situation.

as for the couples rooms in clubs.

SURELY when it comes to sex,personnel choice should always be allowed SURELY.

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By *phroditeWoman over a year ago

(She/ her) in Sensualityland

Very simply, we are not there yet.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I keep hoping that day will come. Just as I hope for gender pay equality. The point is that people in power, for want of a better way of looking at it, choose people like them.

Very simply, we are not there yet.

But by setting up clubs, awards etc for black, white, gay, disabled I think its sending out the wrong signals. We are all equal and human beings at the end of the day so I'm going to therefore set up a mohbo and human being pride march. That way, everyone is included!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Next UP...couples ONLY rooms in clubs...surely that shouldnt be allowed..SURELY...

who agrees on the above stupid statement?

why such an aggressive reply,i simply pointed out the obvious.

cant you see the irony in the situation.

as for the couples rooms in clubs.

SURELY when it comes to sex,personnel choice should always be allowed SURELY. "

there was no aggressiveness saucy, and none aimed at u..I believe in hitting the quote button if I'm replying to someone.

The main point is people are confusing inequality with preference, whether it comes from individuals or groups...even moreso when it comes to peoples sexual preferences.

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By *icketysplitsWoman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"But by setting up clubs, awards etc for black, white, gay, disabled I think its sending out the wrong signals. We are all equal and human beings at the end of the day so I'm going to therefore set up a mohbo and human being pride march. That way, everyone is included! "

Set it up and see what happens. There is nothing that says all aren't included in the Mercury or Booker prizes, as long as they play music or write. So, why don't black people succeed? That is the issue - not the title of the award. When systemic discrimination ends then we will be there.

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By *hetalkingstoveMan over a year ago

London

Pride was set up as a reaction to gay people being oppressed by society. Straight people are not oppressed in the same way. They don't need such an event.

Just like they don't need 'straight only' clubs. There are a million clubs for straight people, just like there are a million organisations for white people, for men.

You have to consider the balance of power in society. Women, gay people, non-white people all tend to have less for various reasons. It's not prejudice or wrong if steps are taken to try and redress that balance of power a little.

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By *upitersmileCouple over a year ago

Manchester

"no! What I'm saying is there would be uproar if there was a "white history month" or even mowo awards?

Every month is white history month. All music awards are MoWo awards. I think we can spare them the odd affirmative action don't you?

Let me ask were the white people slaved and were they made a second or third rate citizen were you sent to prison for being white um no x"

Throughout history there has been a huge white slave trade that is still ongoing today in some cases. The Arabs were incredibly profitable in the european slave trade, convicts sent to the colonies, and the sex slave trade (which doesn't discriminate regarding race). Also the Africans traded slaves almost themselfs. I think the black slave trade is so prominent because of the civil war and so it should be.

There shouldn't be a 'white' history month. 95% of history taught in schools is white. This time of year we remember past wars and often forget our Indian, black and Gurkha soldiers that fought just as bravely for our freedom. We should set aside time to bring history aside for white to people's attention!

Back to the OP question though. If its a public bar I don't think they can stop you from going in?

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By *upitersmileCouple over a year ago

Manchester

I keep hoping that day will come. Just as I hope for gender pay equality. The point is that people in power, for want of a better way of looking at it, choose people like them.

Very simply, we are not there yet.

If you stand by that are you saying the Paralympics should be scraped???

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Ummm...yes they were. And this is the annoying thing about some people..Selective historical memory!

White Europeans were slaves to Carthage, Rome, Egypt and Babylon. You don't see those folk apologising do you?

Equality is not about getting one over another, or feeling that you're getting special treatment because of a belief, creed, colour or sex.

It's about being equal!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

while also trying to keep this about the gay club(it wasnt pointed out if its a sexually based club or a vanilla based club), I'd have to point out that being openly gay isnt acceptable in many pubs/clubs..and of course I mean doing what heterosexual ppl normally do do...kiss,laugh,flirt etc. It just doesnt happen in public places, and makes both parties uneasy..or of course some will look on with disgust.

having a place where u can express urself openly is pretty important

I'd also say straight women going to gay clubs (just to avoid hordes of straight men), doesnt exactly sound respectable to gay people either in my opinion

I'm all for people mixing the 'scenes' and interests..but I wont deny some groups need their own breathing space.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"i can see the op's point.

it's ironic that people who are discriminated against,do not see a problem,

in setting up clubs,or awards,that discriminates against others.

Thank you..That's exactly my point!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Pride was set up as a reaction to gay people being oppressed by society. Straight people are not oppressed in the same way. They don't need such an event.

I am genuinely shocked by how few people understand the political origins of the PRIDE movement or indeed jthat that political element remains today. Some people seem to think it is, and has always been about the party aspect.

For the people on this thread knocking PRIDE as seperatist and discriminatory, consider that there is one held in Ugandan where homosexuality carries the death penalty.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Regarding the Paralympics, you probably picked the worst example there.

The events are set up to allow athletes with varying disabilities to compete against each other, critically, on an equal footing. It's one of the best models for inclusion around.

Disability laws in general (like the Equality Act) are about allowing individuals to have the same access as 'abled bodied' individuals...not about giving them an advantages, which is specifically prohibited.

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By *icketysplitsWoman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"Ummm...yes they were. And this is the annoying thing about some people..Selective historical memory!

White Europeans were slaves to Carthage, Rome, Egypt and Babylon. You don't see those folk apologising do you?

Equality is not about getting one over another, or feeling that you're getting special treatment because of a belief, creed, colour or sex.

It's about being equal!"

I am tired and should probably stop reading this, particularly as it's my shout at QT night.

Equal does not mean doing exactly the same for everyone. That does not create equality, at best that makes some things better for some people. More often than not it maintains the general status quo now.

When I work with the deaf community I change my presentation style, get a BSL signer in and allow extra time for questions to be interpreted. That ensures they get the information. Carrying on as I do for hearing groups could, on your definition, be considered me being equal. I'll treat them the same. The outcome, and this is my point, will be very different. One group will have all the information and the other will be struggling to grasp what I have been going on about for a day. The outcome determines the equality, not doing the same and hoping for the best.

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By *hetalkingstoveMan over a year ago

London

"i can see the op's point.

it's ironic that people who are discriminated against,do not see a problem,

in setting up clubs,or awards,that discriminates against others.

Thank you..That's exactly my point!"

But society isn't equal, it isn't fair.

Gay/non-white/women/trans - these are groups which suffer prejudice. And now you're saying - 'no, you can't have a safe space of your own, you can't have something that's different from mainstream society in which you're routinely discriminated against - you must let us straight/white/men/cis people get involved, just like we are everywhere else!'

Do you not think that's unfair?

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By *ngelbiTVTV/TS over a year ago

Dyserth, North Wales

Sadly minorities can be attacked or victimised for being a minority. I mean you can sometimes feel how some people treat bi people on an open minded site like this one.

I don't have any problem with a minority group having a club or something specifically aimed at them so they can drink/flirt/talk do what they want or do nothing in each others company.

Some people just complain for the sake of complaining.

Angel xx

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By *iss_tressWoman over a year ago

London

"Ummm...yes they were. And this is the annoying thing about some people..Selective historical memory!

White Europeans were slaves to Carthage, Rome, Egypt and Babylon. You don't see those folk apologising do you?

Equality is not about getting one over another, or feeling that you're getting special treatment because of a belief, creed, colour or sex.

It's about being equal!

I am tired and should probably stop reading this, particularly as it's my shout at QT night.

2012: reading this thread made me sad, I wasn't going to contribute but I had to thank you for "getting" it.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 01/11/12 23:33:40]

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"i can see the op's point.

it's ironic that people who are discriminated against,do not see a problem,

in setting up clubs,or awards,that discriminates against others.

Thank you..That's exactly my point!

But society isn't equal, it isn't fair.

Do you not think that's unfair?"

and that was my point too I think people are forgetting especially the outside scene(as in the non swinger world)- isnt a more tolerant area really..I mean really... watch two guys(will use gay men as the template)having a huge snog in a normal pub/pub?..they might not get knifed or bottled...but they will get some disgusted onlookers

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By *icketysplitsWoman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

QT just had the equality debate too...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"QT just had the equality debate too..."

I thought I could hear you shouting!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Because maybe they were not the best writer/musician that year? Speech dabelle won the mercury a couple of years ago, so has dizzy as well as a number of Brits awards with Beyonce, jay-z, rhianna, tiny temper. Would you say they aren't very successful? Jay-z is one of the most powerful and influential men in the music business.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"i can see the op's point.

it's ironic that people who are discriminated against,do not see a problem,

in setting up clubs,or awards,that discriminates against others.

Thank you..That's exactly my point!

But society isn't equal, it isn't fair.

Do you not think that's unfair?

"
if a hetero couple had a full on snog in my local, I would be giving them a look. There is a time and a place, not just because your gay or straight

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By *icketysplitsWoman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

Look at the whole. Jay-Z and Dizzy and Tiny Tempah, Beyonce are all great and work hard, as do others. Why this year are there no new acts from the minority sectors coming forward? Look at the whole.

Now I really will stop as I must get some sleep this night.

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By *hetalkingstoveMan over a year ago

London

"i can see the op's point.

it's ironic that people who are discriminated against,do not see a problem,

in setting up clubs,or awards,that discriminates against others.

Thank you..That's exactly my point!

But society isn't equal, it isn't fair.

Do you not think that's unfair?

if a hetero couple had a full on snog in my local, I would be giving them a look. There is a time and a place, not just because your gay or straight"

You might not discriminate, but there are lots of people who do. You know 'gay bashing' is an actual thing? Gay people actually get assaulted or murdered for expressing their sexuality (or not, could be for just 'looking gay'). Straight people do not have this problem.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Look at the whole. Jay-Z and Dizzy and Tiny Tempah, Beyonce are all great and work hard, as do others. Why this year are there no new acts from the minority sectors coming forward? Look at the whole.

Now I really will stop as I must get some sleep this night."
because maybe they are shite regardless of whether they are black or white??????

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"i can see the op's point.

it's ironic that people who are discriminated against,do not see a problem,

in setting up clubs,or awards,that discriminates against others.

Thank you..That's exactly my point!

But society isn't equal, it isn't fair.

Do you not think that's unfair?

if a hetero couple had a full on snog in my local, I would be giving them a look. There is a time and a place, not just because your gay or straight"

I'd be more concerned what I was doing and who I was with...but heyho...am not nosey

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By *icketysplitsWoman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

Look at the whole. Jay-Z and Dizzy and Tiny Tempah, Beyonce are all great and work hard, as do others. Why this year are there no new acts from the minority sectors coming forward? Look at the whole.

Now I really will stop as I must get some sleep this night. because maybe they are shite regardless of whether they are black or white??????"

I had to look...

Yes, lots of acts can be shite regardless of their ethnicity. You are entitled to your opinions and beliefs. I can do no more to show you another view. Sleep well.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Look at the whole. Jay-Z and Dizzy and Tiny Tempah, Beyonce are all great and work hard, as do others. Why this year are there no new acts from the minority sectors coming forward? Look at the whole.

Now I really will stop as I must get some sleep this night. because maybe they are shite regardless of whether they are black or white??????

I had to look...

Yes, lots of acts can be shite regardless of their ethnicity. You are entitled to your opinions and beliefs. I can do no more to show you another view. Sleep well."

So your view is more valid than mine? Your the one who keeps bringing ethnicity into it. I'm saying I couldn't give a flying **** what colour, sexuality, ability you are, if your good at something it should be based on that alone and not what "group" you come from. I'm sorry your unable to see my view of things!!!???? Goodnight

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By *ctavius StuntMan over a year ago

london

terrible, i would love to join the womens institute

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"So, there's a gay only club just opened to the applause of many.

Why do I find myself feeling angry at this? I'm not a homophobe, but I wonder what reaction there would be if I opened a hetro only bar?

Women only/men only/black only/white only...Surely any kind of segregation, regardless of its original motive is wrong?"

In an ideal world yes people shouldn't feel the need to have clubs that cater for their specific demographic but it isn't an ideal world and people are drawn to other people who are of the same mindset as themselves. It's always been the case, right from when we are children in the playground. Why do we choose one set of friends over another?

I don't feel threatened generally by anyone (apart from extremists of any kind who would wish me harm) and I have no problem being in the company of gay, straight or bisexual people (I don't get the camp brigade at all though and feel it unneccessary)

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By *B9 QueenWoman over a year ago

Over the rainbow, under the bridge

I just don't understand all the fuss. Do straight guys really feel a desperate need to go in to gay only clubs anyway?

What do they think they are missing?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I don't think you're getting my point.

There is no separation policy overt or covert , it's the law and clubs know this all to well , just one founded complaint would cost them in oh so many ways !

If your new to the club or appear nervous , you may get asked if you are awair it's s gay club so you are not offended by anything you may see ! Good policy i think !

I never get asked as I look very gaayyyyy

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I just don't understand all the fuss. Do straight guys really feel a desperate need to go in to gay only clubs anyway?

What do they think they are missing?"

Usually, the chance to assert their 'equality' on others.

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By *els_BellsWoman over a year ago

with the moon n stars somewhere in gtr manc

There was/is a gay club n liverpool where I used to go, which was started as gay only, so the owners and staff knew people from the 'scene' and would refuse entry to people they didn't know. Their reason was due to some idiots who would go in just to start trouble.

I used to go with an ex (male) and we were always allowed entry as they had seen us in gay friendly bars and in other places they used. It was and still is one of the most popular clubs in the city, but is classed as gay friendly now.

Gay only places were initially started to make homosexuals feel 'safe' from bigots, unfortunately, there are still idiots about who will attack someone for their sexuality.

As for management being allowed to do it, I believe most places have signs saying 'management reserve the right of refusal'.

Im not a fan of segregation, and have studied it in depth, but if it means people feel safer, then why not?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"When whites and heteros have lived through as much discrimination as blacks and gays have, we can start complaining. If they want a place they can go without being sneered or laughed at for a while then I am all for it. There are plenty of places left for the rest of us to visit."

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By *aucy3Couple over a year ago

glasgow

"i can see the op's point.

it's ironic that people who are discriminated against,do not see a problem,

in setting up clubs,or awards,that discriminates against others.

Thank you..That's exactly my point!

But society isn't equal, it isn't fair.

Do you not think that's unfair?"

i think it's a sad state of affairs,that in 2012 people still deem it necessary to set up clubs or awards,where they feel safe,or are recognised for their talent.

sadder still,is the credence in their case.

i just feel that another line of segregation,moves us further from integration.

discriminating,does not discourage discrimination.

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By *rumCoupleCouple over a year ago

birmingham

Did'nt a hotel or b&b manager get taken to court because she refused access to a gay couple x

Yes they got prosecuted last month. The B&B had a policy of not allowing any unmarried couples to share a room.

I think the exact reason was they would not allowed unmarried *male couples* to share - they would have allowed a mixed sex couple to share. THAT was the discrimination that they were guilty of. I have no idea if "marital status" is a protected designation ... if not then they could have legally refused to rent to unmarried couples. However they would also have to recognise a civil partnership as marriage not to fall foul of the law.

Equality is a great thing, as female drivers are discovering

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