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Electric cars
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"Is there more support now or are a lot of people still not convinced. Are there any electric car owners out there, or people who are adamant they will never go EV" I'm not "convinced" by many of the arguments. But if and when they become affordable, they will get me from a to b which is all it needs to do. | |||
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"There is more support & the technology is getting there in terms of useful mileage. But The infrastructure is badly letting it all down, to give an example in my town of 40,000 people, there’s only 1 charger so unless you’re able to charge from home & have a wall charger, you’re forced to go either Diesel or Petrol. " I don’t know exactly where you live but I know that within 5 miles of southend on-sea there are roughly 35 chargers with about 5-10 of them being fast chargers. Most tescos have free podpoint chargers and a lot of Morrisons have GeniePoint. A lot of Aldi and Lidl are getting chargers. My local Lidl has one, so actually there are more than you think | |||
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"Until the price becomes more realistic then im keeping my car as the price of something of comparable spec is ridiculous. Plus the fact that just as we are told to go electric the price of electric is sky rocketing. T" If you have a car charger installed at home you get given a cheaper electricity rate/tariff than what you have as standard now. | |||
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"Convinced alright, just want one that can do about a 1000 miles on a charge but more importantly the prices need to come down. £28,500 for a mini, no thanks and it's not even a mini we want. " Well they ain’t cheap that’s for sure, but every major manufacturer now has something in their line up. 5 years time the second hand market will be flooded. Not sure why you need a 1000 mile range, do you drive a 1000 miles without stopping? I think 300-350 is the sweet spot it’s the charging times that are the problem. My car on a fast charger can take enough charge to carry on in the time it takes me to get a brew and have a wee. | |||
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"Until the price becomes more realistic then im keeping my car as the price of something of comparable spec is ridiculous. Plus the fact that just as we are told to go electric the price of electric is sky rocketing. T If you have a car charger installed at home you get given a cheaper electricity rate/tariff than what you have as standard now. " Now thats got me thinking, maybe i could wire the hot tub upto a ev charger? 
T | |||
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"Until the price becomes more realistic then im keeping my car as the price of something of comparable spec is ridiculous. Plus the fact that just as we are told to go electric the price of electric is sky rocketing. T If you have a car charger installed at home you get given a cheaper electricity rate/tariff than what you have as standard now. Now thats got me thinking, maybe i could wire the hot tub upto a ev charger?
T"To be fair you have to apply for one and they normally give you a cheaper rate per KWh in off peak times midnight to 4 am problem is it’s dearer outside of those times. But you can run your dishwasher tumble dryer and washer over night as well as charge your car to take advantage of it | |||
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"Convinced alright, just want one that can do about a 1000 miles on a charge but more importantly the prices need to come down. £28,500 for a mini, no thanks and it's not even a mini we want. Well they ain’t cheap that’s for sure, but every major manufacturer now has something in their line up. 5 years time the second hand market will be flooded. Not sure why you need a 1000 mile range, do you drive a 1000 miles without stopping? I think 300-350 is the sweet spot it’s the charging times that are the problem. My car on a fast charger can take enough charge to carry on in the time it takes me to get a brew and have a wee. " Yeah maybe pushing it with the 1000 mile range however, we do a 2000 mile round trip a few times a year and ideally don't want to be hanging around for three charges each way. | |||
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"Is there more support now or are a lot of people still not convinced. Are there any electric car owners out there, or people who are adamant they will never go EV" The MacE is a wicked car | |||
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"what you're not told is that an 80Kw car needs about 60kw or more per night to charge it if your doing the range.. Say the range is 400 miles and you use 80 kw to do that and 1kw of electricity to charge it is 30p.. so thats around £24 per charge.. Which relates to 16p per mile and you have to have it charged over night normally.. Plus where does 400 miles get you if you do travel regularly.. " Not far enough if you drive a van!! It’s not cost effective - especially if you consider the initial outlay | |||
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"what you're not told is that an 80Kw car needs about 60kw or more per night to charge it if your doing the range.. Say the range is 400 miles and you use 80 kw to do that and 1kw of electricity to charge it is 30p.. so thats around £24 per charge.. Which relates to 16p per mile and you have to have it charged over night normally.. Plus where does 400 miles get you if you do travel regularly.. " My car has a 60kw battery and that gets me 250 miles at currently 28p per kWh so that’s 16 quid Although if I shop at tescos and plug it in to a podpoint charger which is free that price comes down considerably. 400 miles would get me a fair way into France. Or up to Scotland or to London and back. | |||
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"Convinced alright, just want one that can do about a 1000 miles on a charge but more importantly the prices need to come down. £28,500 for a mini, no thanks and it's not even a mini we want. Well they ain’t cheap that’s for sure, but every major manufacturer now has something in their line up. 5 years time the second hand market will be flooded. Not sure why you need a 1000 mile range, do you drive a 1000 miles without stopping? I think 300-350 is the sweet spot it’s the charging times that are the problem. My car on a fast charger can take enough charge to carry on in the time it takes me to get a brew and have a wee. Yeah maybe pushing it with the 1000 mile range however, we do a 2000 mile round trip a few times a year and ideally don't want to be hanging around for three charges each way. " I bet you stop more than 3 times  | |||
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"what you're not told is that an 80Kw car needs about 60kw or more per night to charge it if your doing the range.. Say the range is 400 miles and you use 80 kw to do that and 1kw of electricity to charge it is 30p.. so thats around £24 per charge.. Which relates to 16p per mile and you have to have it charged over night normally.. Plus where does 400 miles get you if you do travel regularly.. My car has a 60kw battery and that gets me 250 miles at currently 28p per kWh so that’s 16 quid Although if I shop at tescos and plug it in to a podpoint charger which is free that price comes down considerably. 400 miles would get me a fair way into France. Or up to Scotland or to London and back. " How long does it take to charge? Do you encounter any queuing usually? Asking as these are the main issues for us other than cost. Also finding somewhere! | |||
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"what you're not told is that an 80Kw car needs about 60kw or more per night to charge it if your doing the range.. Say the range is 400 miles and you use 80 kw to do that and 1kw of electricity to charge it is 30p.. so thats around £24 per charge.. Which relates to 16p per mile and you have to have it charged over night normally.. Plus where does 400 miles get you if you do travel regularly.. Not far enough if you drive a van!! It’s not cost effective - especially if you consider the initial outlay " Depends what sort of van, I had a mate who was a plumber and another who fixed washers both had vans and neither of them did more than 100 miles a day. Plus one of them works in London and it costs to drive into the clean air zone in a normal van. Manchester is also getting a clean air zone. | |||
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"what you're not told is that an 80Kw car needs about 60kw or more per night to charge it if your doing the range.. Say the range is 400 miles and you use 80 kw to do that and 1kw of electricity to charge it is 30p.. so thats around £24 per charge.. Which relates to 16p per mile and you have to have it charged over night normally.. Plus where does 400 miles get you if you do travel regularly.. Not far enough if you drive a van!! It’s not cost effective - especially if you consider the initial outlay Depends what sort of van, I had a mate who was a plumber and another who fixed washers both had vans and neither of them did more than 100 miles a day. Plus one of them works in London and it costs to drive into the clean air zone in a normal van. Manchester is also getting a clean air zone. " Yes, it always depends on where you live etc one size doesn’t fit all  | |||
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"Is there more support now or are a lot of people still not convinced. Are there any electric car owners out there, or people who are adamant they will never go EV The MacE is a wicked car " Is that made by Apple? | |||
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"Is there more support now or are a lot of people still not convinced. Are there any electric car owners out there, or people who are adamant they will never go EV" No where near practical enough yet and the high power battery production is very bad for the environment ! https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-environmental-impact-of-electric-cars-dzz77hdds?utm_source=fb&utm_medium=paid_social&utm_campaign=FY22_Q4_Times-Earth_Articles_Traffic&utm_content=Environment-interests_Electric-cars&fbclid=IwAR1zwKEwrVg-bKI8GOyIZOr5GAEEyCDbl9BiFR-Zbpgn4AiQspA6GwJJmUk All those electric cars sat in the sun too but only one has solar panels and they are not that impressive ? (a rare Tesla) | |||
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"No, until they can increase the mileage on them and make the batteries more sustainable and affordable I'm out Seems like another stupid idea the Government haven't thought through fully" I'm not sure the government are the organ grinder in this matter, I think they are more likely to be the monkey and manufacturers are using it to "refresh" the entire car fleet of the world.... Sell loads of after market stuff... | |||
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"No, until they can increase the mileage on them and make the batteries more sustainable and affordable I'm out Seems like another stupid idea the Government haven't thought through fully I'm not sure the government are the organ grinder in this matter, I think they are more likely to be the monkey and manufacturers are using it to "refresh" the entire car fleet of the world.... Sell loads of after market stuff... " Still a stupid idea whoever it was. | |||
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"what you're not told is that an 80Kw car needs about 60kw or more per night to charge it if your doing the range.. Say the range is 400 miles and you use 80 kw to do that and 1kw of electricity to charge it is 30p.. so thats around £24 per charge.. Which relates to 16p per mile and you have to have it charged over night normally.. Plus where does 400 miles get you if you do travel regularly.. My car has a 60kw battery and that gets me 250 miles at currently 28p per kWh so that’s 16 quid Although if I shop at tescos and plug it in to a podpoint charger which is free that price comes down considerably. 400 miles would get me a fair way into France. Or up to Scotland or to London and back. " Out of interest, is your "range" really your range? Ie have you 400 miles out of a single full charge? | |||
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"what you're not told is that an 80Kw car needs about 60kw or more per night to charge it if your doing the range.. Say the range is 400 miles and you use 80 kw to do that and 1kw of electricity to charge it is 30p.. so thats around £24 per charge.. Which relates to 16p per mile and you have to have it charged over night normally.. Plus where does 400 miles get you if you do travel regularly.. My car has a 60kw battery and that gets me 250 miles at currently 28p per kWh so that’s 16 quid Although if I shop at tescos and plug it in to a podpoint charger which is free that price comes down considerably. 400 miles would get me a fair way into France. Or up to Scotland or to London and back. How long does it take to charge? Do you encounter any queuing usually? Asking as these are the main issues for us other than cost. Also finding somewhere! " Charging at home with a wall charger about 5 hours Charging at Morrisons GeniePoint charger 50kw about an hour Charging at a Tesla super charger or any of the super fast chargers about 30/40 minutes I’ve not seen a queue at a supercharger I do see people using the 50kw chargers but I just go to another one. | |||
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"They're not electric as such' they are battery." I fail to see your point. The car doesn't run on batteries, you don't add more batteries to it to make it go further. The car runs on electricity, the battery is just where that electricity is stored. | |||
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"what you're not told is that an 80Kw car needs about 60kw or more per night to charge it if your doing the range.. Say the range is 400 miles and you use 80 kw to do that and 1kw of electricity to charge it is 30p.. so thats around £24 per charge.. Which relates to 16p per mile and you have to have it charged over night normally.. Plus where does 400 miles get you if you do travel regularly.. My car has a 60kw battery and that gets me 250 miles at currently 28p per kWh so that’s 16 quid Although if I shop at tescos and plug it in to a podpoint charger which is free that price comes down considerably. 400 miles would get me a fair way into France. Or up to Scotland or to London and back. Out of interest, is your "range" really your range? Ie have you 400 miles out of a single full charge? " I had a Mini Cooper that said it would do 40 mpg I never got it about 35. Your range is a theoretical maximum my Tesla says it can do 305 on a charge but 250 is more realistic if your looking at a car that says it can do 150 then your more likely to get 100 | |||
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"Until the price becomes more realistic then im keeping my car as the price of something of comparable spec is ridiculous. Plus the fact that just as we are told to go electric the price of electric is sky rocketing. T If you have a car charger installed at home you get given a cheaper electricity rate/tariff than what you have as standard now. " I have a car charger and home plus get free charging at work. Best decision I made is going to electric. Up front costs are more than a traditional car but you make up for it in zero maintenance costs and electric cars last much longer than combustion engines. | |||
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"what you're not told is that an 80Kw car needs about 60kw or more per night to charge it if your doing the range.. Say the range is 400 miles and you use 80 kw to do that and 1kw of electricity to charge it is 30p.. so thats around £24 per charge.. Which relates to 16p per mile and you have to have it charged over night normally.. Plus where does 400 miles get you if you do travel regularly.. My car has a 60kw battery and that gets me 250 miles at currently 28p per kWh so that’s 16 quid Although if I shop at tescos and plug it in to a podpoint charger which is free that price comes down considerably. 400 miles would get me a fair way into France. Or up to Scotland or to London and back. Out of interest, is your "range" really your range? Ie have you 400 miles out of a single full charge? I had a Mini Cooper that said it would do 40 mpg I never got it about 35. Your range is a theoretical maximum my Tesla says it can do 305 on a charge but 250 is more realistic if your looking at a car that says it can do 150 then your more likely to get 100 " Range is also based on how you drive, what car amenities you are using (ac, heater, radio, etc.), outside conditions like blistering heat or freezing cold. In theory the range is based on traveling on a flat road with no wind resistance going at a certain speed and using no accessories. So you will never reach the maximum range. Always take at least 10% off what ever your milage says and you will get an accurate range. | |||
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"... and electric cars last much longer than combustion engines. " Where do you get that idea? Lithium battery based electric cars haven't been around for long enough to make a comparison yet, but so far the evidence is that the battery will die before the ICE does. | |||
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"No, until they can increase the mileage on them and make the batteries more sustainable and affordable I'm out Seems like another stupid idea the Government haven't thought through fully I'm not sure the government are the organ grinder in this matter, I think they are more likely to be the monkey and manufacturers are using it to "refresh" the entire car fleet of the world.... Sell loads of after market stuff... Still a stupid idea whoever it was. " Our government like many others around the planet signed up to an initiative that has vowed to cut pollution one of these forms of pollution is CO2 which comes out of cars airplanes ships and a lot of domestic boilers. It’s basically scientifically accepted that we need to do something about this pollution. So the government has put in place legislation to stop car makers from making and selling cars that have tail pipe emissions. The manufacturers didn’t want to change, designing and building a new technology is very costly where as flogging things that have barely changed in the last 100 years is cheap. The upshot is initially it will be costly to change but eventually it will be cheaper, electric cars are mechanically simpler require less maintenance and a lot less servicing. Plus they are genuinely more pleasant to be around, they are quieter and if you have ever walked through a busy town you won’t be stunk out by fumes | |||
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"I have one and it is a ballache to charge on a long journey.. Yes the supermarket have free ones, but they are so slow you do not get a usable charge even if there for a couple of hours The challenge with motorway fast charges is that there just aren't enough, so you have to queue to wait for one... But some carparks are limited to time. If i visit my folks there is only one public, slow charger in her town (15k people/tourist destination) so i have to take a granny cable with me to charge via a standard 3-pin socket overnight You get more charge in warmer weather than cold, which i wasn't aware /prepared for.. On a warm day i can get to 350 mile range" You’ve convinced us not to bother !!  | |||
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"... and electric cars last much longer than combustion engines. Where do you get that idea? Lithium battery based electric cars haven't been around for long enough to make a comparison yet, but so far the evidence is that the battery will die before the ICE does." First Tesla cars are still on the road with some of them having close to 500,000 miles. The most I’ve gotten out of an ICE is 182,000 with all highway miles and keeping up with maintenance. After that it was all downhill. Too many moving parts with in ICE which leads to more wear and tear and more risk for breakage in some form. | |||
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"What is the crack with the batteries as I have read some brands you have to rent the battery? Also what price is a new battery if you have a fault out of warranty?" Tesla in the US quote $26,000 for a new battery. Some manufacturers have a scheme to rent the battery. It seems to me that this is just a way to take several thousand pounds off the sales price, and get you to pay it monthly instead. | |||
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"I have one and it is a ballache to charge on a long journey.. Yes the supermarket have free ones, but they are so slow you do not get a usable charge even if there for a couple of hours The challenge with motorway fast charges is that there just aren't enough, so you have to queue to wait for one... But some carparks are limited to time. If i visit my folks there is only one public, slow charger in her town (15k people/tourist destination) so i have to take a granny cable with me to charge via a standard 3-pin socket overnight You get more charge in warmer weather than cold, which i wasn't aware /prepared for.. On a warm day i can get to 350 mile range You’ve convinced us not to bother !! "Depends on what sort of car, I have a Tesla and have never had to wait to charge at a supercharger (teslas own chargers) Some supermarkets have free ones and these are slow, Morrisons and Lidl have fast ones and these can give you a decent charge in the time it takes to shop. I know this cos that’s what I do. Tesla chargers will be opened up to other types of car soon so things will get better for anyone that doesn’t own a tesla | |||
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"The prices of the cars are coming down, the range is going up on them and if you are able to get home charger installed I'd say go for it. I still think electric is a stepping stone to get to hydrogen power though." Why hydrogen? It is a very inefficient use of electrical power - as in it needs more energy to produce that can be obtained using it. The only advantages it has is that its fast to refill and its light. There are some sectors where these factors are big enough to offset the energy cost to produce it - the arguments put forward by JCB for instance for heavy plant machinery. For almost everywhere else why would you choose to develop a technology that the laws of thermodynamics mean can never be efficient? There are serious technical challenges to overcome in using hydrogen that are going to require a lot of investment and risk - something that so far very very few companies seem prepared to make. Mr | |||
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"... and electric cars last much longer than combustion engines. Where do you get that idea? Lithium battery based electric cars haven't been around for long enough to make a comparison yet, but so far the evidence is that the battery will die before the ICE does. First Tesla cars are still on the road with some of them having close to 500,000 miles." Ah, if by "last much longer" you mean "will do more mileage", then yes. For heavy users an electric car will cover way more mileage than an ICE car. For lighter users it's not so clear. The batteries will degrade over time, and so far we don't have enough data to work out whether that time is long enough or not. | |||
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"I'm not convinced at all about them. The mileage is dire especially if you have a long journey .For example if I wanted to visit my mother it's a 5 hour journey for me driving electric it would take at least 6 or more hours as it wouldn't do the journey on one charge. And if there was a family emergency like we had a while ago I don't want to be wasting time waiting for a car to charge when I want to be with a family. Plus from what I've been told finding charging points that work is an issue as well . I rent so I'm not paying to put in a charging point I can't afford to be doing that anytime I move and most landlords won't.And what about people with on street parking how are they meant to manage. And they are too expensive and batteries too expensive to replace.When you take into account what goes into making them etc they are not more environmentally friendly especially when scrapping the batteries. So all in all no I'm nowhere near convinced they are a better option at all." Your 5 hour journey, do you do that without stopping? Charging points arnt that difficult to find, I have an app that tells me where they are if they are broke and if someone is using it. They arnt cheap that’s true but if you knacker the engine in a petrol car it costs about the same as a replacement battery and as we know petrol and diesel cars never break. Interestingly enough they don’t scrap the old batteries, cos like you mentioned they are worth a lot of money what they do is strap them to the side of someone’s house and plug solar panels into them. | |||
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"No, until they can increase the mileage on them and make the batteries more sustainable and affordable I'm out Seems like another stupid idea the Government haven't thought through fully I'm not sure the government are the organ grinder in this matter, I think they are more likely to be the monkey and manufacturers are using it to "refresh" the entire car fleet of the world.... Sell loads of after market stuff... Still a stupid idea whoever it was. Our government like many others around the planet signed up to an initiative that has vowed to cut pollution one of these forms of pollution is CO2 which comes out of cars airplanes ships and a lot of domestic boilers. It’s basically scientifically accepted that we need to do something about this pollution. So the government has put in place legislation to stop car makers from making and selling cars that have tail pipe emissions. The manufacturers didn’t want to change, designing and building a new technology is very costly where as flogging things that have barely changed in the last 100 years is cheap. The upshot is initially it will be costly to change but eventually it will be cheaper, electric cars are mechanically simpler require less maintenance and a lot less servicing. Plus they are genuinely more pleasant to be around, they are quieter and if you have ever walked through a busy town you won’t be stunk out by fumes " Meh, I ve heard that argument. Across the lifetime of a vehicle ftkm raw material, manufacture, driving, etc... How much improvement will there be in terms of reducing co2 in scrapping a car that is serviceable and replacing it with a new one.... And how much of the world's co2 comes from cars, when compared to say... Industry, concrete production, air travel.... Well any other offenders. Not suggesting cars dont have a part to play and eVehicles may be helpful for some.. But aren't we hitting consumers when the main culprits are industry? | |||
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"... and electric cars last much longer than combustion engines. Where do you get that idea? Lithium battery based electric cars haven't been around for long enough to make a comparison yet, but so far the evidence is that the battery will die before the ICE does. First Tesla cars are still on the road with some of them having close to 500,000 miles. Ah, if by "last much longer" you mean "will do more mileage", then yes. For heavy users an electric car will cover way more mileage than an ICE car. For lighter users it's not so clear. The batteries will degrade over time, and so far we don't have enough data to work out whether that time is long enough or not." Newest batteries are designed to last 10 years before the degradation STARTS to become impactful. As the technology advances mileage per charge will increase along with the estimated lifespan of the battery….your turn to move the goalposts  | |||
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"What is the crack with the batteries as I have read some brands you have to rent the battery? Also what price is a new battery if you have a fault out of warranty? Tesla in the US quote $26,000 for a new battery. Some manufacturers have a scheme to rent the battery. It seems to me that this is just a way to take several thousand pounds off the sales price, and get you to pay it monthly instead." Well exactly, Companies would much rather shift you into a committed stream of repeatable revenue. | |||
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"No, until they can increase the mileage on them and make the batteries more sustainable and affordable I'm out Seems like another stupid idea the Government haven't thought through fully I'm not sure the government are the organ grinder in this matter, I think they are more likely to be the monkey and manufacturers are using it to "refresh" the entire car fleet of the world.... Sell loads of after market stuff... Still a stupid idea whoever it was. Our government like many others around the planet signed up to an initiative that has vowed to cut pollution one of these forms of pollution is CO2 which comes out of cars airplanes ships and a lot of domestic boilers. It’s basically scientifically accepted that we need to do something about this pollution. So the government has put in place legislation to stop car makers from making and selling cars that have tail pipe emissions. The manufacturers didn’t want to change, designing and building a new technology is very costly where as flogging things that have barely changed in the last 100 years is cheap. The upshot is initially it will be costly to change but eventually it will be cheaper, electric cars are mechanically simpler require less maintenance and a lot less servicing. Plus they are genuinely more pleasant to be around, they are quieter and if you have ever walked through a busy town you won’t be stunk out by fumes Meh, I ve heard that argument. Across the lifetime of a vehicle ftkm raw material, manufacture, driving, etc... How much improvement will there be in terms of reducing co2 in scrapping a car that is serviceable and replacing it with a new one.... And how much of the world's co2 comes from cars, when compared to say... Industry, concrete production, air travel.... Well any other offenders. Not suggesting cars dont have a part to play and eVehicles may be helpful for some.. But aren't we hitting consumers when the main culprits are industry? " I never said scrap ice cars, run them till you plan to get something else, then get electric. My last car was a 14 year old Mini Cooper S I hung on to it until I could get an electric car. Some one else will have to deal with the 900 quids worth of stuff it needed to pass it’s MOT You are right about personal transport only being a fraction of the culprit but as anyone who as lived next to a busy main road industrial concreate production isn’t what makes things smelly and it doesn’t wake you up in the early hours with a brappp brapp pop pop pop sound | |||
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"As and when the charging infrastructure is properly disability accessible. As and when the range of cars includes ones that stow a fixed frame wheelchair without having to take it to bits. As and when I wouldn't need to bankrupt myself to afford one. Then I might trade in my adapted diesel estate car (Renault Sport Tourer). " This is interesting, charging infrastructure I would argue is as accessible as going to a petrol station with out all the sticky petrol and deisel A lot of electric cars are pretty big so might fit your needs, unfortunately that also makes them not cheap. What I would say tho is electric cars are a lot easier to drive, no gears no clutch and one pedal driving so don’t even need the foot brake a lot of the time. | |||
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"No, until they can increase the mileage on them and make the batteries more sustainable and affordable I'm out Seems like another stupid idea the Government haven't thought through fully I'm not sure the government are the organ grinder in this matter, I think they are more likely to be the monkey and manufacturers are using it to "refresh" the entire car fleet of the world.... Sell loads of after market stuff... Still a stupid idea whoever it was. Our government like many others around the planet signed up to an initiative that has vowed to cut pollution one of these forms of pollution is CO2 which comes out of cars airplanes ships and a lot of domestic boilers. It’s basically scientifically accepted that we need to do something about this pollution. So the government has put in place legislation to stop car makers from making and selling cars that have tail pipe emissions. The manufacturers didn’t want to change, designing and building a new technology is very costly where as flogging things that have barely changed in the last 100 years is cheap. The upshot is initially it will be costly to change but eventually it will be cheaper, electric cars are mechanically simpler require less maintenance and a lot less servicing. Plus they are genuinely more pleasant to be around, they are quieter and if you have ever walked through a busy town you won’t be stunk out by fumes Meh, I ve heard that argument. Across the lifetime of a vehicle ftkm raw material, manufacture, driving, etc... How much improvement will there be in terms of reducing co2 in scrapping a car that is serviceable and replacing it with a new one.... And how much of the world's co2 comes from cars, when compared to say... Industry, concrete production, air travel.... Well any other offenders. Not suggesting cars dont have a part to play and eVehicles may be helpful for some.. But aren't we hitting consumers when the main culprits are industry? I never said scrap ice cars, run them till you plan to get something else, then get electric. My last car was a 14 year old Mini Cooper S I hung on to it until I could get an electric car. Some one else will have to deal with the 900 quids worth of stuff it needed to pass it’s MOT You are right about personal transport only being a fraction of the culprit but as anyone who as lived next to a busy main road industrial concreate production isn’t what makes things smelly and it doesn’t wake you up in the early hours with a brappp brapp pop pop pop sound " Yes it works for some people. Just don't think the carbon messages are convincing. If the problem is too much pollution, and too many cars, I can't see how the solution is to sell more cars to people that have a carbon footprint (even if its lifetime footprint is 10 or 20 percent lower) There is very little readily available and truthful data out there on carbon footprint of the things we buy and use (see comments on range above). Sorry for taking the op a bit off piste. | |||
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"No, until they can increase the mileage on them and make the batteries more sustainable and affordable I'm out Seems like another stupid idea the Government haven't thought through fully I'm not sure the government are the organ grinder in this matter, I think they are more likely to be the monkey and manufacturers are using it to "refresh" the entire car fleet of the world.... Sell loads of after market stuff... Still a stupid idea whoever it was. Our government like many others around the planet signed up to an initiative that has vowed to cut pollution one of these forms of pollution is CO2 which comes out of cars airplanes ships and a lot of domestic boilers. It’s basically scientifically accepted that we need to do something about this pollution. So the government has put in place legislation to stop car makers from making and selling cars that have tail pipe emissions. The manufacturers didn’t want to change, designing and building a new technology is very costly where as flogging things that have barely changed in the last 100 years is cheap. The upshot is initially it will be costly to change but eventually it will be cheaper, electric cars are mechanically simpler require less maintenance and a lot less servicing. Plus they are genuinely more pleasant to be around, they are quieter and if you have ever walked through a busy town you won’t be stunk out by fumes Meh, I ve heard that argument. Across the lifetime of a vehicle ftkm raw material, manufacture, driving, etc... How much improvement will there be in terms of reducing co2 in scrapping a car that is serviceable and replacing it with a new one.... And how much of the world's co2 comes from cars, when compared to say... Industry, concrete production, air travel.... Well any other offenders. Not suggesting cars dont have a part to play and eVehicles may be helpful for some.. But aren't we hitting consumers when the main culprits are industry? I never said scrap ice cars, run them till you plan to get something else, then get electric. My last car was a 14 year old Mini Cooper S I hung on to it until I could get an electric car. Some one else will have to deal with the 900 quids worth of stuff it needed to pass it’s MOT You are right about personal transport only being a fraction of the culprit but as anyone who as lived next to a busy main road industrial concreate production isn’t what makes things smelly and it doesn’t wake you up in the early hours with a brappp brapp pop pop pop sound Yes it works for some people. Just don't think the carbon messages are convincing. If the problem is too much pollution, and too many cars, I can't see how the solution is to sell more cars to people that have a carbon footprint (even if its lifetime footprint is 10 or 20 percent lower) There is very little readily available and truthful data out there on carbon footprint of the things we buy and use (see comments on range above). Sorry for taking the op a bit off piste. " Conspicuous consumption is wrong, mend and make do or find alternatives. I saw an article on replacing polystyrene packaging with of all things mushroom roots. That’s amazing. But most people have a car or access to one and if you have ever been in a closed space when an engine is running you must know that what comes out of it isn’t good. For me they need to sort busses out, I cycle in town and it’s dreadful being near a bus | |||
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"As and when the charging infrastructure is properly disability accessible. As and when the range of cars includes ones that stow a fixed frame wheelchair without having to take it to bits. As and when I wouldn't need to bankrupt myself to afford one. Then I might trade in my adapted diesel estate car (Renault Sport Tourer). This is interesting, charging infrastructure I would argue is as accessible as going to a petrol station with out all the sticky petrol and deisel A lot of electric cars are pretty big so might fit your needs, unfortunately that also makes them not cheap. What I would say tho is electric cars are a lot easier to drive, no gears no clutch and one pedal driving so don’t even need the foot brake a lot of the time. " The charging infrastructure is definitely not disability accessible. I can use an app to summon assistance at the diesel pump at a limited selection of fuel stations (I did it this morning) but there's no app to summon assistance to use an electric charging post. There's more often than not no staff responsible for them at all. Many petrol caps can be pinged open by pressing a button inside the car, it's not fiddly to insert a petrol pump into the tank (if you can lift it) but it IS much more fiddly to connect an electric plug. Most charging points are touch screen. The screens are based on raised concrete platforms with the no wheelchair access. They are up kerbs with no dropped area. They are too high for a seated person to touch the screen. They are in the open air so your wheelchair becomes saturated with rainwater and you have to sit in that soaking wet chair for the rest of the day. There is currently not one single 100% EV I have found with the same boot capacity as my Renault. Not only the capacity, but the shape, the width to accommodate my chair etc. Why should I have to pay tens of thousands of pounds more than a non disabled person? I'm quite happy with my adapted clutch, I'm not that desperate for automatic. Most of my disabled friends need FAR more complex adaptation than gears/clutch - things like hand operated acceleration, adapted steering columns etc. It's irrelevant what the transmission is, mostly. It's easy to adapt manuals, actually. Can these EVs be easily adapted for the hand acceleration, the steering column changes? I don't know. It's an awful lot more complicated than you think. | |||
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"As and when the charging infrastructure is properly disability accessible. As and when the range of cars includes ones that stow a fixed frame wheelchair without having to take it to bits. As and when I wouldn't need to bankrupt myself to afford one. Then I might trade in my adapted diesel estate car (Renault Sport Tourer). This is interesting, charging infrastructure I would argue is as accessible as going to a petrol station with out all the sticky petrol and deisel A lot of electric cars are pretty big so might fit your needs, unfortunately that also makes them not cheap. What I would say tho is electric cars are a lot easier to drive, no gears no clutch and one pedal driving so don’t even need the foot brake a lot of the time. The charging infrastructure is definitely not disability accessible. I can use an app to summon assistance at the diesel pump at a limited selection of fuel stations (I did it this morning) but there's no app to summon assistance to use an electric charging post. There's more often than not no staff responsible for them at all. Many petrol caps can be pinged open by pressing a button inside the car, it's not fiddly to insert a petrol pump into the tank (if you can lift it) but it IS much more fiddly to connect an electric plug. Most charging points are touch screen. The screens are based on raised concrete platforms with the no wheelchair access. They are up kerbs with no dropped area. They are too high for a seated person to touch the screen. They are in the open air so your wheelchair becomes saturated with rainwater and you have to sit in that soaking wet chair for the rest of the day. There is currently not one single 100% EV I have found with the same boot capacity as my Renault. Not only the capacity, but the shape, the width to accommodate my chair etc. Why should I have to pay tens of thousands of pounds more than a non disabled person? I'm quite happy with my adapted clutch, I'm not that desperate for automatic. Most of my disabled friends need FAR more complex adaptation than gears/clutch - things like hand operated acceleration, adapted steering columns etc. It's irrelevant what the transmission is, mostly. It's easy to adapt manuals, actually. Can these EVs be easily adapted for the hand acceleration, the steering column changes? I don't know. It's an awful lot more complicated than you think. " You do make some very good points and I didn’t mean to be dismissive in my comments MG make an estate car that’s a fair size and quite cheap for an electric car. As for converting, I don’t know but the accelerator isn’t mechanical it’s just a variable switch so could easily be column mounted. The steering is just the same as any other car. | |||
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"As and when the charging infrastructure is properly disability accessible. As and when the range of cars includes ones that stow a fixed frame wheelchair without having to take it to bits. As and when I wouldn't need to bankrupt myself to afford one. Then I might trade in my adapted diesel estate car (Renault Sport Tourer). This is interesting, charging infrastructure I would argue is as accessible as going to a petrol station with out all the sticky petrol and deisel A lot of electric cars are pretty big so might fit your needs, unfortunately that also makes them not cheap. What I would say tho is electric cars are a lot easier to drive, no gears no clutch and one pedal driving so don’t even need the foot brake a lot of the time. The charging infrastructure is definitely not disability accessible. I can use an app to summon assistance at the diesel pump at a limited selection of fuel stations (I did it this morning) but there's no app to summon assistance to use an electric charging post. There's more often than not no staff responsible for them at all. Many petrol caps can be pinged open by pressing a button inside the car, it's not fiddly to insert a petrol pump into the tank (if you can lift it) but it IS much more fiddly to connect an electric plug. Most charging points are touch screen. The screens are based on raised concrete platforms with the no wheelchair access. They are up kerbs with no dropped area. They are too high for a seated person to touch the screen. They are in the open air so your wheelchair becomes saturated with rainwater and you have to sit in that soaking wet chair for the rest of the day. There is currently not one single 100% EV I have found with the same boot capacity as my Renault. Not only the capacity, but the shape, the width to accommodate my chair etc. Why should I have to pay tens of thousands of pounds more than a non disabled person? I'm quite happy with my adapted clutch, I'm not that desperate for automatic. Most of my disabled friends need FAR more complex adaptation than gears/clutch - things like hand operated acceleration, adapted steering columns etc. It's irrelevant what the transmission is, mostly. It's easy to adapt manuals, actually. Can these EVs be easily adapted for the hand acceleration, the steering column changes? I don't know. It's an awful lot more complicated than you think. You do make some very good points and I didn’t mean to be dismissive in my comments MG make an estate car that’s a fair size and quite cheap for an electric car. As for converting, I don’t know but the accelerator isn’t mechanical it’s just a variable switch so could easily be column mounted. The steering is just the same as any other car. " Thank you re: the MG5-EV, which launched only a few weeks ago, is that right? So, one whole EV car that might (subject to the dimensions, roof height, sill height etc) be suitable. That still leaves me sitting in the rain at Keele Services* in the peeing down rain, trying to use a touchscreen charging point that I can't reach. I'll get trench-bottom! Yes, I could ask a kindly random member of the public to take pity, but that's not what should be happening in the 21st century. *Random example, picked out of thin air! | |||
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"I have one and it is a ballache to charge on a long journey.. Yes the supermarket have free ones, but they are so slow you do not get a usable charge even if there for a couple of hours The challenge with motorway fast charges is that there just aren't enough, so you have to queue to wait for one... But some carparks are limited to time. If i visit my folks there is only one public, slow charger in her town (15k people/tourist destination) so i have to take a granny cable with me to charge via a standard 3-pin socket overnight You get more charge in warmer weather than cold, which i wasn't aware /prepared for.. On a warm day i can get to 350 mile range You’ve convinced us not to bother !!
Depends on what sort of car, I have a Tesla and have never had to wait to charge at a supercharger (teslas own chargers)
Some supermarkets have free ones and these are slow, Morrisons and Lidl have fast ones and these can give you a decent charge in the time it takes to shop. I know this cos that’s what I do.
Tesla chargers will be opened up to other types of car soon so things will get better for anyone that doesn’t own a tesla"Yes tesla are definitely ahead of the curve.. Mine is a skoda/vw I have lots of fast chargers in supermarkets where i live and they take around 1-1.5 hours to charge .. But none in the places where relatives live so i have to plan very carefully where /when to recharge.. I had to recharge at my bros house on xmas day to get home on boxing day.. As it was cold my range was limited  | |||
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"As and when the charging infrastructure is properly disability accessible. As and when the range of cars includes ones that stow a fixed frame wheelchair without having to take it to bits. As and when I wouldn't need to bankrupt myself to afford one. Then I might trade in my adapted diesel estate car (Renault Sport Tourer). This is interesting, charging infrastructure I would argue is as accessible as going to a petrol station with out all the sticky petrol and deisel A lot of electric cars are pretty big so might fit your needs, unfortunately that also makes them not cheap. What I would say tho is electric cars are a lot easier to drive, no gears no clutch and one pedal driving so don’t even need the foot brake a lot of the time. The charging infrastructure is definitely not disability accessible. I can use an app to summon assistance at the diesel pump at a limited selection of fuel stations (I did it this morning) but there's no app to summon assistance to use an electric charging post. There's more often than not no staff responsible for them at all. Many petrol caps can be pinged open by pressing a button inside the car, it's not fiddly to insert a petrol pump into the tank (if you can lift it) but it IS much more fiddly to connect an electric plug. Most charging points are touch screen. The screens are based on raised concrete platforms with the no wheelchair access. They are up kerbs with no dropped area. They are too high for a seated person to touch the screen. They are in the open air so your wheelchair becomes saturated with rainwater and you have to sit in that soaking wet chair for the rest of the day. There is currently not one single 100% EV I have found with the same boot capacity as my Renault. Not only the capacity, but the shape, the width to accommodate my chair etc. Why should I have to pay tens of thousands of pounds more than a non disabled person? I'm quite happy with my adapted clutch, I'm not that desperate for automatic. Most of my disabled friends need FAR more complex adaptation than gears/clutch - things like hand operated acceleration, adapted steering columns etc. It's irrelevant what the transmission is, mostly. It's easy to adapt manuals, actually. Can these EVs be easily adapted for the hand acceleration, the steering column changes? I don't know. It's an awful lot more complicated than you think. You do make some very good points and I didn’t mean to be dismissive in my comments MG make an estate car that’s a fair size and quite cheap for an electric car. As for converting, I don’t know but the accelerator isn’t mechanical it’s just a variable switch so could easily be column mounted. The steering is just the same as any other car. Thank you re: the MG5-EV, which launched only a few weeks ago, is that right? So, one whole EV car that might (subject to the dimensions, roof height, sill height etc) be suitable. That still leaves me sitting in the rain at Keele Services* in the peeing down rain, trying to use a touchscreen charging point that I can't reach. I'll get trench-bottom! Yes, I could ask a kindly random member of the public to take pity, but that's not what should be happening in the 21st century. *Random example, picked out of thin air! " Well if you can charge at home then you might not actually have to charge at a public charger for 95% of your charging. That’s little help if you can’t I know, I’m not saying you should change but actually there might be benifits you hadn’t considered then again it might not work at all | |||
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"The prices of the cars are coming down, the range is going up on them and if you are able to get home charger installed I'd say go for it. I still think electric is a stepping stone to get to hydrogen power though. Why hydrogen? It is a very inefficient use of electrical power - as in it needs more energy to produce that can be obtained using it. The only advantages it has is that its fast to refill and its light. There are some sectors where these factors are big enough to offset the energy cost to produce it - the arguments put forward by JCB for instance for heavy plant machinery. For almost everywhere else why would you choose to develop a technology that the laws of thermodynamics mean can never be efficient? There are serious technical challenges to overcome in using hydrogen that are going to require a lot of investment and risk - something that so far very very few companies seem prepared to make. Mr" I think it depends on the market segment.. There are several bridging technologies and of course there will be multiple strategies to achieve the end result... But in the larger segments hydrogen is certainly one of the solutions that will be delivered | |||
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"I have one and it is a ballache to charge on a long journey.. Yes the supermarket have free ones, but they are so slow you do not get a usable charge even if there for a couple of hours The challenge with motorway fast charges is that there just aren't enough, so you have to queue to wait for one... But some carparks are limited to time. If i visit my folks there is only one public, slow charger in her town (15k people/tourist destination) so i have to take a granny cable with me to charge via a standard 3-pin socket overnight You get more charge in warmer weather than cold, which i wasn't aware /prepared for.. On a warm day i can get to 350 mile range You’ve convinced us not to bother !!
Depends on what sort of car, I have a Tesla and have never had to wait to charge at a supercharger (teslas own chargers)
Some supermarkets have free ones and these are slow, Morrisons and Lidl have fast ones and these can give you a decent charge in the time it takes to shop. I know this cos that’s what I do.
Tesla chargers will be opened up to other types of car soon so things will get better for anyone that doesn’t own a tesla
Yes tesla are definitely ahead of the curve.. Mine is a skoda/vw
I have lots of fast chargers in supermarkets where i live and they take around 1-1.5 hours to charge .. But none in the places where relatives live so i have to plan very carefully where /when to recharge.. I had to recharge at my bros house on xmas day to get home on boxing day.. As it was cold my range was limited "I’m lucky I live in Manchester so there are plenty of places, all my family live within half a charge round trip to me. I have done London and wales a couple of times and it’s pretty easy with the supercharger network. I’m in Cornwall during the summer that will be interesting | |||
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"The prices of the cars are coming down, the range is going up on them and if you are able to get home charger installed I'd say go for it. I still think electric is a stepping stone to get to hydrogen power though. Why hydrogen? It is a very inefficient use of electrical power - as in it needs more energy to produce that can be obtained using it. The only advantages it has is that its fast to refill and its light. There are some sectors where these factors are big enough to offset the energy cost to produce it - the arguments put forward by JCB for instance for heavy plant machinery. For almost everywhere else why would you choose to develop a technology that the laws of thermodynamics mean can never be efficient? There are serious technical challenges to overcome in using hydrogen that are going to require a lot of investment and risk - something that so far very very few companies seem prepared to make. Mr I think it depends on the market segment.. There are several bridging technologies and of course there will be multiple strategies to achieve the end result... But in the larger segments hydrogen is certainly one of the solutions that will be delivered " it could work for boats and trains and possibly lorries. Not great for cars tho | |||
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"As and when the charging infrastructure is properly disability accessible. The charging infrastructure is definitely not disability accessible" I completely agree with this - even as an able bodied person it is a huge challenge in the dark, rain, wind and unfamiliar locations wrestling heavy cables and trying to locate nozzles... And then pratting about trying to get the charging set up.. Especially when its pouring down | |||
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"Newest batteries are designed to last 10 years before the degradation STARTS to become impactful. As the technology advances mileage per charge will increase along with the estimated lifespan of the battery….your turn to move the goalposts "You misunderstand me. I'd love to believe that the batteries would last 10 years. I just have experience of lithium technologies, and I doubt that it's possible. If I'm proved wrong, I'll be a happy man. I'd love to have an electric car. Cleaner, quieter, less maintenance, lower running costs, and better acceleration. The reason I don't have one is mostly on cost. I also fairly regularly do a 400m journey, which I do in one go. I don't want to have to add an hour of sitting around waiting in the middle of that journey. | |||
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"The prices of the cars are coming down, the range is going up on them and if you are able to get home charger installed I'd say go for it. I still think electric is a stepping stone to get to hydrogen power though. Why hydrogen? It is a very inefficient use of electrical power - as in it needs more energy to produce that can be obtained using it. The only advantages it has is that its fast to refill and its light. There are some sectors where these factors are big enough to offset the energy cost to produce it - the arguments put forward by JCB for instance for heavy plant machinery. For almost everywhere else why would you choose to develop a technology that the laws of thermodynamics mean can never be efficient? There are serious technical challenges to overcome in using hydrogen that are going to require a lot of investment and risk - something that so far very very few companies seem prepared to make. Mr I think it depends on the market segment.. There are several bridging technologies and of course there will be multiple strategies to achieve the end result... But in the larger segments hydrogen is certainly one of the solutions that will be delivered it could work for boats and trains and possibly lorries. Not great for cars tho " Yes, think big | |||
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"As and when the charging infrastructure is properly disability accessible. The charging infrastructure is definitely not disability accessible I completely agree with this - even as an able bodied person it is a huge challenge in the dark, rain, wind and unfamiliar locations wrestling heavy cables and trying to locate nozzles... And then pratting about trying to get the charging set up.. Especially when its pouring down "Yeah being able to charge at home is definitely a winner for this situation. But I totally agree chargers should have rain protection like petrol stations | |||
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"I have one and it is a ballache to charge on a long journey.. Yes the supermarket have free ones, but they are so slow you do not get a usable charge even if there for a couple of hours The challenge with motorway fast charges is that there just aren't enough, so you have to queue to wait for one... But some carparks are limited to time. If i visit my folks there is only one public, slow charger in her town (15k people/tourist destination) so i have to take a granny cable with me to charge via a standard 3-pin socket overnight You get more charge in warmer weather than cold, which i wasn't aware /prepared for.. On a warm day i can get to 350 mile range You’ve convinced us not to bother !! "If you are doing lots of local journeys and have charging pod at home, or live close to fast chargers, then they are great.. But if you travel any distance regularly its a little more inconvenient (I don't disagree with others points ef price, mine is a company car, so not something i had to contemplate) | |||
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" Well if you can charge at home then you might not actually have to charge at a public charger for 95% of your charging. That’s little help if you can’t I know, I’m not saying you should change but actually there might be benifits you hadn’t considered then again it might not work at all" And when I go to my away wheelchair basketball matches over a weekend? Do I have to take a carer with me to charge while I'm hundreds of miles away? I don't actually have a carer, because I don't need one. It's crazy expensive to install charging points at home, even with Govt subsidy and there's still the fiddly problem of how my mate J, with upper limb deficit, attaches his EV at home? At the conventional fuel station, he summons a person to do it for him via an app. It took me all of about 5 minutes to three-quarters fill my diesel vehicle this morning, and I didn't leave the driver's seat once. | |||
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"I'm not convinced at all about them. The mileage is dire especially if you have a long journey .For example if I wanted to visit my mother it's a 5 hour journey for me driving electric it would take at least 6 or more hours as it wouldn't do the journey on one charge. And if there was a family emergency like we had a while ago I don't want to be wasting time waiting for a car to charge when I want to be with a family. Plus from what I've been told finding charging points that work is an issue as well . I rent so I'm not paying to put in a charging point I can't afford to be doing that anytime I move and most landlords won't.And what about people with on street parking how are they meant to manage. And they are too expensive and batteries too expensive to replace.When you take into account what goes into making them etc they are not more environmentally friendly especially when scrapping the batteries. So all in all no I'm nowhere near convinced they are a better option at all. Your 5 hour journey, do you do that without stopping? Charging points arnt that difficult to find, I have an app that tells me where they are if they are broke and if someone is using it. They arnt cheap that’s true but if you knacker the engine in a petrol car it costs about the same as a replacement battery and as we know petrol and diesel cars never break. Interestingly enough they don’t scrap the old batteries, cos like you mentioned they are worth a lot of money what they do is strap them to the side of someone’s house and plug solar panels into them. " I have done the journey without stopping like the night we were told a family member collasped and was likely not to survive.the night. Other times if I stop it's for a quick 15 minute break halfway. If I blew an engine in a car I'd replace it for a lot cheaper than a electric car anyhow. Where I live I actually don't know of any charging points in any of the local towns and like I said I rent so I'm not paying to install one in any place I rent. Anyhow it is pointless as there is no way I could afford an electric car anyhow they are way outside my price range so until they become more affordable and better mileage I'll stick to petrol or diesel cars. Interesting fact about the batteries after they are no longer used in cars. But I can't see it being a solution full time after a while . | |||
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"I'm not convinced at all about them. The mileage is dire especially if you have a long journey .For example if I wanted to visit my mother it's a 5 hour journey for me driving electric it would take at least 6 or more hours as it wouldn't do the journey on one charge. And if there was a family emergency like we had a while ago I don't want to be wasting time waiting for a car to charge when I want to be with a family. Plus from what I've been told finding charging points that work is an issue as well . I rent so I'm not paying to put in a charging point I can't afford to be doing that anytime I move and most landlords won't.And what about people with on street parking how are they meant to manage. And they are too expensive and batteries too expensive to replace.When you take into account what goes into making them etc they are not more environmentally friendly especially when scrapping the batteries. So all in all no I'm nowhere near convinced they are a better option at all. Your 5 hour journey, do you do that without stopping? Charging points arnt that difficult to find, I have an app that tells me where they are if they are broke and if someone is using it. They arnt cheap that’s true but if you knacker the engine in a petrol car it costs about the same as a replacement battery and as we know petrol and diesel cars never break. Interestingly enough they don’t scrap the old batteries, cos like you mentioned they are worth a lot of money what they do is strap them to the side of someone’s house and plug solar panels into them. I have done the journey without stopping like the night we were told a family member collasped and was likely not to survive.the night. Other times if I stop it's for a quick 15 minute break halfway. If I blew an engine in a car I'd replace it for a lot cheaper than a electric car anyhow. Where I live I actually don't know of any charging points in any of the local towns and like I said I rent so I'm not paying to install one in any place I rent. Anyhow it is pointless as there is no way I could afford an electric car anyhow they are way outside my price range so until they become more affordable and better mileage I'll stick to petrol or diesel cars. Interesting fact about the batteries after they are no longer used in cars. But I can't see it being a solution full time after a while ." It’s not quite there for everyone definitely but it is for more people than realise, for me price was the biggest factor then once I had decided I picked one that could handle most of the driving I normally do. I don’t think there is a situation that would require me to drive urgently 200 miles plus in one go. Although I did sometimes drive back from the south coast without stopping admittedly that was a journey that I would do well above the speed limit so arguably I shouldn’t have. It’s likely that there will be more chargers around your local area than your aware of. But like you say if you haven’t got the money you haven’t got the money. | |||
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"Until the price becomes more realistic then im keeping my car as the price of something of comparable spec is ridiculous. Plus the fact that just as we are told to go electric the price of electric is sky rocketing. T If you have a car charger installed at home you get given a cheaper electricity rate/tariff than what you have as standard now. Now thats got me thinking, maybe i could wire the hot tub upto a ev charger?
T"Ha ha ha good luck | |||
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"Every new car from 2030 will be electric so you need to get your head around the idea very quickly " I think teslas are 7th and 8th best selling cars in the uk this year so by 2030 there I’ll be at least 14000 8 year old teslas on the second hand market | |||
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"Every new car from 2030 will be electric so you need to get your head around the idea very quickly " It’s not that I need to get my head around around it. It’s a financial issue for me, plain and simple. They’re prohibitively expensive, and without a massive drop in price, I’ll never afford to have one. | |||
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"Every new car from 2030 will be electric so you need to get your head around the idea very quickly I think teslas are 7th and 8th best selling cars in the uk this year so by 2030 there I’ll be at least 14000 8 year old teslas on the second hand market" And petrol and diesel cars will still be in use for 20 years or more | |||
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"Every new car from 2030 will be electric so you need to get your head around the idea very quickly I think teslas are 7th and 8th best selling cars in the uk this year so by 2030 there I’ll be at least 14000 8 year old teslas on the second hand market And petrol and diesel cars will still be in use for 20 years or more" They will but by the time 2030 comes around who’s going to be buying petrol cars Already the amount of electric cars being sold each year is increasing. Also how many 20 year old cars do you see on the road now. Just watch out for how many 51 plate cars you normally see | |||
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" They will but by the time 2030 comes around who’s going to be buying petrol cars" Me | |||
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"Every new car from 2030 will be electric so you need to get your head around the idea very quickly " Well, they'd better come up with better ways to facilitate EVs then, otherwise huge parts of the community will be cut off from private transport. Don't tell me I can use public transport because I can't even get onto the train platform at any railway station within six miles of my house and even if I go to a major mainline station, I am at the mercy of the person who has been tasked with getting the ramp out. Sometimes, they just can't be arsed, or the booking wasn't phoned through, or they're too busy. Heaven forbid you should want to travel today, now?! | |||
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"So what happens to a 7 year old electric car with a battery at say 50% capacity?? Really not convinced by them. If more people start buying them the government will add an extra tax to electricity you use to charge you car" Same thing that happens to a 7 year old Ford Fiesta that’s got a blowing cylinder head and a horrid oil leak. Or the Vauxhall vectra that has faulty swirl valves. You look at it say nah mate this is fucked and go and buy a 7 year old Tesla which has lost 10% battery. Everyone goes on about the batteries. Bloody petrol and Diesel engines have hundreds of parts that can fuck up and cost you thousands | |||
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"Not convinced at all, the technology is not there yet for mass market take up. The batteries are my biggest concern you are getting at best an 8 year 70% cover from the dealers, which is great on a new car, but for the next owner down the line that’s not so great. And replacement is going to cost a lot at the moment. I think that’s going to cripple resale prices. I think battery tech is a stop gap, it’ll be the beta max of the car world. " Isn't an 8 year warranty the gold standard in the automotive world? | |||
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"If your over 55 buy petrol. In 2030 you will be 63 You will get a cheaper petrol car that : 1.Will cost you less now. 2.Save thousands of pounds now. 3. In 2032 you can buy a 2 year old car at high spec bargain price. 4.you may have given up driving for public transport. If you in your 40s or less go electric. " It will just gradually make more and more sense to go electric, tax will be higher you will be prohibited from driving in different places and there will be less and less petrol cars around plus petrol stations will start to shut down as there is less need, it will be the opposite of what it is today there will be charging points everywhere there is a parking spot, because why wouldn’t car parks want to make a bit more money | |||
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"Every new car from 2030 will be electric so you need to get your head around the idea very quickly Well, they'd better come up with better ways to facilitate EVs then, otherwise huge parts of the community will be cut off from private transport. Don't tell me I can use public transport because I can't even get onto the train platform at any railway station within six miles of my house and even if I go to a major mainline station, I am at the mercy of the person who has been tasked with getting the ramp out. Sometimes, they just can't be arsed, or the booking wasn't phoned through, or they're too busy. Heaven forbid you should want to travel today, now?!" Reading your post, I assume you have a petrol or diesel car now? In 2030, if you need to change your existing car, you will either buy a second hand petrol or diesel car, or if you want a new one, it will need to be electric. | |||
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"Not convinced at all, the technology is not there yet for mass market take up. The batteries are my biggest concern you are getting at best an 8 year 70% cover from the dealers, which is great on a new car, but for the next owner down the line that’s not so great. And replacement is going to cost a lot at the moment. I think that’s going to cripple resale prices. I think battery tech is a stop gap, it’ll be the beta max of the car world. Isn't an 8 year warranty the gold standard in the automotive world? " Who knows what the future is like, but currently if you buy a brand new Tesla you can sell it and actually make money on it. | |||
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"Every new car from 2030 will be electric so you need to get your head around the idea very quickly I think teslas are 7th and 8th best selling cars in the uk this year so by 2030 there I’ll be at least 14000 8 year old teslas on the second hand market And petrol and diesel cars will still be in use for 20 years or more" True but the government will tax car fuel so high they’ll force you to buy an electric vehicle. | |||
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"Every new car from 2030 will be electric so you need to get your head around the idea very quickly I think teslas are 7th and 8th best selling cars in the uk this year so by 2030 there I’ll be at least 14000 8 year old teslas on the second hand market And petrol and diesel cars will still be in use for 20 years or more True but the government will tax car fuel so high they’ll force you to buy an electric vehicle. " Yeah electric is happening it’s just a fact, but it needn't be a horrible future | |||
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"Every new car from 2030 will be electric so you need to get your head around the idea very quickly Well, they'd better come up with better ways to facilitate EVs then, otherwise huge parts of the community will be cut off from private transport. Don't tell me I can use public transport because I can't even get onto the train platform at any railway station within six miles of my house and even if I go to a major mainline station, I am at the mercy of the person who has been tasked with getting the ramp out. Sometimes, they just can't be arsed, or the booking wasn't phoned through, or they're too busy. Heaven forbid you should want to travel today, now?! Reading your post, I assume you have a petrol or diesel car now? In 2030, if you need to change your existing car, you will either buy a second hand petrol or diesel car, or if you want a new one, it will need to be electric. " Diesel. I'm well aware, thank you, but as things stand, the infrastructure is completely inaccessible to me and to many thousands of people like me, so the "powers that be" are going to have to start coming up with solutions. You can't have a situation where disabled people can neither independently use a private vehicle nor public transport. Do you have to plan every single journey to the minutae of telling Northern rail exactly which train you're getting and if you miss it (because someone can't be arsed getting a ramp out), you no longer actually qualify for assistance because it's only booked on that specific service? I conversed with a few restaurants/hostelries yesterday and had to ask friends to cancel a booking and go elsewhere because people like me can't get in and there's no toilets I could access. Welcome to disability life. 2030 will need to include we incapacitated ones | |||
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"Not convinced at all, the technology is not there yet for mass market take up. The batteries are my biggest concern you are getting at best an 8 year 70% cover from the dealers, which is great on a new car, but for the next owner down the line that’s not so great. And replacement is going to cost a lot at the moment. I think that’s going to cripple resale prices. I think battery tech is a stop gap, it’ll be the beta max of the car world. Isn't an 8 year warranty the gold standard in the automotive world? Who knows what the future is like, but currently if you buy a brand new Tesla you can sell it and actually make money on it. " The original post was saying that the battery is only covered for 8 years, I think that is pretty good, hence the gold standard. I'm all for the change, sooner the better and this is just the first step on the journey. I think charging will not be always needed and reading here seems to be the biggest hurdle. I have read the future could be more towards battery replacement rather than charging. Drive onto a pad, the battery will be removed from your car and replaced with a fully charged battery in seconds. Could be a long way off, but the boffins are on it. | |||
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"Every new car from 2030 will be electric so you need to get your head around the idea very quickly Well, they'd better come up with better ways to facilitate EVs then, otherwise huge parts of the community will be cut off from private transport. Don't tell me I can use public transport because I can't even get onto the train platform at any railway station within six miles of my house and even if I go to a major mainline station, I am at the mercy of the person who has been tasked with getting the ramp out. Sometimes, they just can't be arsed, or the booking wasn't phoned through, or they're too busy. Heaven forbid you should want to travel today, now?! Reading your post, I assume you have a petrol or diesel car now? In 2030, if you need to change your existing car, you will either buy a second hand petrol or diesel car, or if you want a new one, it will need to be electric. Diesel. I'm well aware, thank you, but as things stand, the infrastructure is completely inaccessible to me and to many thousands of people like me, so the "powers that be" are going to have to start coming up with solutions. You can't have a situation where disabled people can neither independently use a private vehicle nor public transport. Do you have to plan every single journey to the minutae of telling Northern rail exactly which train you're getting and if you miss it (because someone can't be arsed getting a ramp out), you no longer actually qualify for assistance because it's only booked on that specific service? I conversed with a few restaurants/hostelries yesterday and had to ask friends to cancel a booking and go elsewhere because people like me can't get in and there's no toilets I could access. Welcome to disability life. 2030 will need to include we incapacitated ones "To be fair this sounds like a general problem of services not being disabled accessible and public EV is just another example of this. It’s a few years away and probably won’t come to be of use to you but eventually cars will be charged by induction in the same way phones are. You will rock up at the supermarket or wherever and there will be a induction coil in the parking spot. You will come back to the car to a full battery | |||
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"We’ve had 15 vehicles recovered this week as they were sent out of area… you guessed it no working chargers anywhere near site. It’s utterly ridiculous pushing the electric mantra without the infrastructure in place to support it. " Part of blame is on the users. | |||
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"Every new car from 2030 will be electric so you need to get your head around the idea very quickly Well, they'd better come up with better ways to facilitate EVs then, otherwise huge parts of the community will be cut off from private transport. Don't tell me I can use public transport because I can't even get onto the train platform at any railway station within six miles of my house and even if I go to a major mainline station, I am at the mercy of the person who has been tasked with getting the ramp out. Sometimes, they just can't be arsed, or the booking wasn't phoned through, or they're too busy. Heaven forbid you should want to travel today, now?! Reading your post, I assume you have a petrol or diesel car now? In 2030, if you need to change your existing car, you will either buy a second hand petrol or diesel car, or if you want a new one, it will need to be electric. Diesel. I'm well aware, thank you, but as things stand, the infrastructure is completely inaccessible to me and to many thousands of people like me, so the "powers that be" are going to have to start coming up with solutions. You can't have a situation where disabled people can neither independently use a private vehicle nor public transport. Do you have to plan every single journey to the minutae of telling Northern rail exactly which train you're getting and if you miss it (because someone can't be arsed getting a ramp out), you no longer actually qualify for assistance because it's only booked on that specific service? I conversed with a few restaurants/hostelries yesterday and had to ask friends to cancel a booking and go elsewhere because people like me can't get in and there's no toilets I could access. Welcome to disability life. 2030 will need to include we incapacitated ones
To be fair this sounds like a general problem of services not being disabled accessible and public EV is just another example of this.
It’s a few years away and probably won’t come to be of use to you but eventually cars will be charged by induction in the same way phones are. You will rock up at the supermarket or wherever and there will be a induction coil in the parking spot. You will come back to the car to a full battery "Is that xanadu when black and white people get along in perfect harmony as well..? | |||
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"Every new car from 2030 will be electric so you need to get your head around the idea very quickly Well, they'd better come up with better ways to facilitate EVs then, otherwise huge parts of the community will be cut off from private transport. Don't tell me I can use public transport because I can't even get onto the train platform at any railway station within six miles of my house and even if I go to a major mainline station, I am at the mercy of the person who has been tasked with getting the ramp out. Sometimes, they just can't be arsed, or the booking wasn't phoned through, or they're too busy. Heaven forbid you should want to travel today, now?! Reading your post, I assume you have a petrol or diesel car now? In 2030, if you need to change your existing car, you will either buy a second hand petrol or diesel car, or if you want a new one, it will need to be electric. Diesel. I'm well aware, thank you, but as things stand, the infrastructure is completely inaccessible to me and to many thousands of people like me, so the "powers that be" are going to have to start coming up with solutions. You can't have a situation where disabled people can neither independently use a private vehicle nor public transport. Do you have to plan every single journey to the minutae of telling Northern rail exactly which train you're getting and if you miss it (because someone can't be arsed getting a ramp out), you no longer actually qualify for assistance because it's only booked on that specific service? I conversed with a few restaurants/hostelries yesterday and had to ask friends to cancel a booking and go elsewhere because people like me can't get in and there's no toilets I could access. Welcome to disability life. 2030 will need to include we incapacitated ones "The infrastructure is changing to be more accessible for people with disabilities. It hasn't happened in line with the roll out of existing charging points but is now being prioritised, is what I have read. Apps on phones and charging points that lower and rise in height are now starting to be introduced. It wont be perfected yet I guess, but it must be for 2030 | |||
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"We’ve had 15 vehicles recovered this week as they were sent out of area… you guessed it no working chargers anywhere near site. It’s utterly ridiculous pushing the electric mantra without the infrastructure in place to support it. Part of blame is on the users. " How is the blame on the user for a non-functional charger? | |||
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"Every new car from 2030 will be electric so you need to get your head around the idea very quickly Well, they'd better come up with better ways to facilitate EVs then, otherwise huge parts of the community will be cut off from private transport. Don't tell me I can use public transport because I can't even get onto the train platform at any railway station within six miles of my house and even if I go to a major mainline station, I am at the mercy of the person who has been tasked with getting the ramp out. Sometimes, they just can't be arsed, or the booking wasn't phoned through, or they're too busy. Heaven forbid you should want to travel today, now?! Reading your post, I assume you have a petrol or diesel car now? In 2030, if you need to change your existing car, you will either buy a second hand petrol or diesel car, or if you want a new one, it will need to be electric. Diesel. I'm well aware, thank you, but as things stand, the infrastructure is completely inaccessible to me and to many thousands of people like me, so the "powers that be" are going to have to start coming up with solutions. You can't have a situation where disabled people can neither independently use a private vehicle nor public transport. Do you have to plan every single journey to the minutae of telling Northern rail exactly which train you're getting and if you miss it (because someone can't be arsed getting a ramp out), you no longer actually qualify for assistance because it's only booked on that specific service? I conversed with a few restaurants/hostelries yesterday and had to ask friends to cancel a booking and go elsewhere because people like me can't get in and there's no toilets I could access. Welcome to disability life. 2030 will need to include we incapacitated ones
To be fair this sounds like a general problem of services not being disabled accessible and public EV is just another example of this.
It’s a few years away and probably won’t come to be of use to you but eventually cars will be charged by induction in the same way phones are. You will rock up at the supermarket or wherever and there will be a induction coil in the parking spot. You will come back to the car to a full battery "But to fuel my conventional fuel vehicle, I drive my adapted charabanc to a branch of Shell, Sainsbury's, Morrisons or Texaco. Not Tesco, they don't participate. I park (under cover) at a pump. I turn off the engine. I pick up my phone and open the FuelService app. A few clicks later, an attendant comes to my driver's door and I ask for £50 of diesel. The attendant fills up my car with diesel, while I answer work emails or contemplate the meaning of life. A few short minutes later, I hand over a sheaf of notes (pre drawn out the day before, because I have to plan) OR I give my contactless card to the attendant and hope they don't skim it. I drive off, mere minutes after arriving and get to work on time, dry and calm. The current corresponding EV experience would be a disaster, frankly. How many public EV charging stations have staff who come to help? Are under cover? Etc. So, all this needs ironing out before clobbering people with needing to go electric. The issues with public transport are separate, but related, because how does one travel, if not by private or public transport, when one cannot ride a bike? | |||
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"Every new car from 2030 will be electric so you need to get your head around the idea very quickly Well, they'd better come up with better ways to facilitate EVs then, otherwise huge parts of the community will be cut off from private transport. Don't tell me I can use public transport because I can't even get onto the train platform at any railway station within six miles of my house and even if I go to a major mainline station, I am at the mercy of the person who has been tasked with getting the ramp out. Sometimes, they just can't be arsed, or the booking wasn't phoned through, or they're too busy. Heaven forbid you should want to travel today, now?! Reading your post, I assume you have a petrol or diesel car now? In 2030, if you need to change your existing car, you will either buy a second hand petrol or diesel car, or if you want a new one, it will need to be electric. Diesel. I'm well aware, thank you, but as things stand, the infrastructure is completely inaccessible to me and to many thousands of people like me, so the "powers that be" are going to have to start coming up with solutions. You can't have a situation where disabled people can neither independently use a private vehicle nor public transport. Do you have to plan every single journey to the minutae of telling Northern rail exactly which train you're getting and if you miss it (because someone can't be arsed getting a ramp out), you no longer actually qualify for assistance because it's only booked on that specific service? I conversed with a few restaurants/hostelries yesterday and had to ask friends to cancel a booking and go elsewhere because people like me can't get in and there's no toilets I could access. Welcome to disability life. 2030 will need to include we incapacitated ones
To be fair this sounds like a general problem of services not being disabled accessible and public EV is just another example of this.
It’s a few years away and probably won’t come to be of use to you but eventually cars will be charged by induction in the same way phones are. You will rock up at the supermarket or wherever and there will be a induction coil in the parking spot. You will come back to the car to a full battery
Is that xanadu when black and white people get along in perfect harmony as well..? "You say that like black and white people don’t already get along in perfect harmony. Maybe you should have chosen a better example Nothing like a little bit of casual racism for a Friday afternoon | |||
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"We’ve had 15 vehicles recovered this week as they were sent out of area… you guessed it no working chargers anywhere near site. It’s utterly ridiculous pushing the electric mantra without the infrastructure in place to support it. Part of blame is on the users. How is the blame on the user for a non-functional charger? " I have an electric vehicle. If I’m going anywhere that I’ve not been before and have no idea the charging situation at my destination I’m either not going or finding another mode of transportation. There is a multitude of apps available that will show you how many chargers are in a specific location and if they are in use or out of service. I dont just blindly go on a trip without doing a little bit of research knowing the charging risks. | |||
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"We’ve had 15 vehicles recovered this week as they were sent out of area… you guessed it no working chargers anywhere near site. It’s utterly ridiculous pushing the electric mantra without the infrastructure in place to support it. Part of blame is on the users. " Which users? How do you mean? | |||
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"We’ve had 15 vehicles recovered this week as they were sent out of area… you guessed it no working chargers anywhere near site. It’s utterly ridiculous pushing the electric mantra without the infrastructure in place to support it. Part of blame is on the users. Which users? How do you mean?" See my previous response. | |||
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"We’ve had 15 vehicles recovered this week as they were sent out of area… you guessed it no working chargers anywhere near site. It’s utterly ridiculous pushing the electric mantra without the infrastructure in place to support it. Part of blame is on the users. How is the blame on the user for a non-functional charger? " Van range is 65-110 miles depending on conditions, drivers have an app that maps their route via chargers to optimise performance. Said chargers were out of service, now they are to far away to chance a safe return to the depot so are directed to the next closet charge point. These were also out of service. Driver is now stuck & needs recovery. Fail to see how that’s driver error!  | |||
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"Every new car from 2030 will be electric so you need to get your head around the idea very quickly Well, they'd better come up with better ways to facilitate EVs then, otherwise huge parts of the community will be cut off from private transport. Don't tell me I can use public transport because I can't even get onto the train platform at any railway station within six miles of my house and even if I go to a major mainline station, I am at the mercy of the person who has been tasked with getting the ramp out. Sometimes, they just can't be arsed, or the booking wasn't phoned through, or they're too busy. Heaven forbid you should want to travel today, now?! Reading your post, I assume you have a petrol or diesel car now? In 2030, if you need to change your existing car, you will either buy a second hand petrol or diesel car, or if you want a new one, it will need to be electric. Diesel. I'm well aware, thank you, but as things stand, the infrastructure is completely inaccessible to me and to many thousands of people like me, so the "powers that be" are going to have to start coming up with solutions. You can't have a situation where disabled people can neither independently use a private vehicle nor public transport. Do you have to plan every single journey to the minutae of telling Northern rail exactly which train you're getting and if you miss it (because someone can't be arsed getting a ramp out), you no longer actually qualify for assistance because it's only booked on that specific service? I conversed with a few restaurants/hostelries yesterday and had to ask friends to cancel a booking and go elsewhere because people like me can't get in and there's no toilets I could access. Welcome to disability life. 2030 will need to include we incapacitated ones
To be fair this sounds like a general problem of services not being disabled accessible and public EV is just another example of this.
It’s a few years away and probably won’t come to be of use to you but eventually cars will be charged by induction in the same way phones are. You will rock up at the supermarket or wherever and there will be a induction coil in the parking spot. You will come back to the car to a full battery
But to fuel my conventional fuel vehicle, I drive my adapted charabanc to a branch of Shell, Sainsbury's, Morrisons or Texaco. Not Tesco, they don't participate. I park (under cover) at a pump. I turn off the engine. I pick up my phone and open the FuelService app. A few clicks later, an attendant comes to my driver's door and I ask for £50 of diesel. The attendant fills up my car with diesel, while I answer work emails or contemplate the meaning of life. A few short minutes later, I hand over a sheaf of notes (pre drawn out the day before, because I have to plan) OR I give my contactless card to the attendant and hope they don't skim it.
I drive off, mere minutes after arriving and get to work on time, dry and calm.
The current corresponding EV experience would be a disaster, frankly. How many public EV charging stations have staff who come to help? Are under cover? Etc.
So, all this needs ironing out before clobbering people with needing to go electric.
The issues with public transport are separate, but related, because how does one travel, if not by private or public transport, when one cannot ride a bike? "To be fair that could easily be a service that you get at charging stations especially some of these new charging forecourt things that are springing up. I follow some of the charging companies on twitter I’ll ask about it. | |||
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"We’ve had 15 vehicles recovered this week as they were sent out of area… you guessed it no working chargers anywhere near site. It’s utterly ridiculous pushing the electric mantra without the infrastructure in place to support it. Part of blame is on the users. Which users? How do you mean? See my previous response. " And if there's zero infrastructure for a particular type of user, what then? Is it the fault of the person for having the audacity to be unable to reach or manipulate a heavy cable? For example... | |||
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"Every new car from 2030 will be electric so you need to get your head around the idea very quickly Well, they'd better come up with better ways to facilitate EVs then, otherwise huge parts of the community will be cut off from private transport. Don't tell me I can use public transport because I can't even get onto the train platform at any railway station within six miles of my house and even if I go to a major mainline station, I am at the mercy of the person who has been tasked with getting the ramp out. Sometimes, they just can't be arsed, or the booking wasn't phoned through, or they're too busy. Heaven forbid you should want to travel today, now?! Reading your post, I assume you have a petrol or diesel car now? In 2030, if you need to change your existing car, you will either buy a second hand petrol or diesel car, or if you want a new one, it will need to be electric. Diesel. I'm well aware, thank you, but as things stand, the infrastructure is completely inaccessible to me and to many thousands of people like me, so the "powers that be" are going to have to start coming up with solutions. You can't have a situation where disabled people can neither independently use a private vehicle nor public transport. Do you have to plan every single journey to the minutae of telling Northern rail exactly which train you're getting and if you miss it (because someone can't be arsed getting a ramp out), you no longer actually qualify for assistance because it's only booked on that specific service? I conversed with a few restaurants/hostelries yesterday and had to ask friends to cancel a booking and go elsewhere because people like me can't get in and there's no toilets I could access. Welcome to disability life. 2030 will need to include we incapacitated ones
To be fair this sounds like a general problem of services not being disabled accessible and public EV is just another example of this.
It’s a few years away and probably won’t come to be of use to you but eventually cars will be charged by induction in the same way phones are. You will rock up at the supermarket or wherever and there will be a induction coil in the parking spot. You will come back to the car to a full battery
But to fuel my conventional fuel vehicle, I drive my adapted charabanc to a branch of Shell, Sainsbury's, Morrisons or Texaco. Not Tesco, they don't participate. I park (under cover) at a pump. I turn off the engine. I pick up my phone and open the FuelService app. A few clicks later, an attendant comes to my driver's door and I ask for £50 of diesel. The attendant fills up my car with diesel, while I answer work emails or contemplate the meaning of life. A few short minutes later, I hand over a sheaf of notes (pre drawn out the day before, because I have to plan) OR I give my contactless card to the attendant and hope they don't skim it.
I drive off, mere minutes after arriving and get to work on time, dry and calm.
The current corresponding EV experience would be a disaster, frankly. How many public EV charging stations have staff who come to help? Are under cover? Etc.
So, all this needs ironing out before clobbering people with needing to go electric.
The issues with public transport are separate, but related, because how does one travel, if not by private or public transport, when one cannot ride a bike? "You mention you have an app on your phone and you pay contactless, this tech wasn't available to you 10 years ago. The tech being introduced when legislation comes into force 2030, should be in place to remedy the problems you have, it will be there because it needs to be a success | |||
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"Every new car from 2030 will be electric so you need to get your head around the idea very quickly Well, they'd better come up with better ways to facilitate EVs then, otherwise huge parts of the community will be cut off from private transport. Don't tell me I can use public transport because I can't even get onto the train platform at any railway station within six miles of my house and even if I go to a major mainline station, I am at the mercy of the person who has been tasked with getting the ramp out. Sometimes, they just can't be arsed, or the booking wasn't phoned through, or they're too busy. Heaven forbid you should want to travel today, now?! Reading your post, I assume you have a petrol or diesel car now? In 2030, if you need to change your existing car, you will either buy a second hand petrol or diesel car, or if you want a new one, it will need to be electric. Diesel. I'm well aware, thank you, but as things stand, the infrastructure is completely inaccessible to me and to many thousands of people like me, so the "powers that be" are going to have to start coming up with solutions. You can't have a situation where disabled people can neither independently use a private vehicle nor public transport. Do you have to plan every single journey to the minutae of telling Northern rail exactly which train you're getting and if you miss it (because someone can't be arsed getting a ramp out), you no longer actually qualify for assistance because it's only booked on that specific service? I conversed with a few restaurants/hostelries yesterday and had to ask friends to cancel a booking and go elsewhere because people like me can't get in and there's no toilets I could access. Welcome to disability life. 2030 will need to include we incapacitated ones
To be fair this sounds like a general problem of services not being disabled accessible and public EV is just another example of this.
It’s a few years away and probably won’t come to be of use to you but eventually cars will be charged by induction in the same way phones are. You will rock up at the supermarket or wherever and there will be a induction coil in the parking spot. You will come back to the car to a full battery
But to fuel my conventional fuel vehicle, I drive my adapted charabanc to a branch of Shell, Sainsbury's, Morrisons or Texaco. Not Tesco, they don't participate. I park (under cover) at a pump. I turn off the engine. I pick up my phone and open the FuelService app. A few clicks later, an attendant comes to my driver's door and I ask for £50 of diesel. The attendant fills up my car with diesel, while I answer work emails or contemplate the meaning of life. A few short minutes later, I hand over a sheaf of notes (pre drawn out the day before, because I have to plan) OR I give my contactless card to the attendant and hope they don't skim it.
I drive off, mere minutes after arriving and get to work on time, dry and calm.
The current corresponding EV experience would be a disaster, frankly. How many public EV charging stations have staff who come to help? Are under cover? Etc.
So, all this needs ironing out before clobbering people with needing to go electric.
The issues with public transport are separate, but related, because how does one travel, if not by private or public transport, when one cannot ride a bike?
To be fair that could easily be a service that you get at charging stations especially some of these new charging forecourt things that are springing up. I follow some of the charging companies on twitter I’ll ask about it. "I'd certainly be interested to know about such things, yes. I know we have to start somewhere, but by 2030, we need the "attended" or accessible model to be the default, not something you only find in big cities or at every second branch of Roadchef along the M6 (south bound only) | |||
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"Every new car from 2030 will be electric so you need to get your head around the idea very quickly Well, they'd better come up with better ways to facilitate EVs then, otherwise huge parts of the community will be cut off from private transport. Don't tell me I can use public transport because I can't even get onto the train platform at any railway station within six miles of my house and even if I go to a major mainline station, I am at the mercy of the person who has been tasked with getting the ramp out. Sometimes, they just can't be arsed, or the booking wasn't phoned through, or they're too busy. Heaven forbid you should want to travel today, now?! Reading your post, I assume you have a petrol or diesel car now? In 2030, if you need to change your existing car, you will either buy a second hand petrol or diesel car, or if you want a new one, it will need to be electric. Diesel. I'm well aware, thank you, but as things stand, the infrastructure is completely inaccessible to me and to many thousands of people like me, so the "powers that be" are going to have to start coming up with solutions. You can't have a situation where disabled people can neither independently use a private vehicle nor public transport. Do you have to plan every single journey to the minutae of telling Northern rail exactly which train you're getting and if you miss it (because someone can't be arsed getting a ramp out), you no longer actually qualify for assistance because it's only booked on that specific service? I conversed with a few restaurants/hostelries yesterday and had to ask friends to cancel a booking and go elsewhere because people like me can't get in and there's no toilets I could access. Welcome to disability life. 2030 will need to include we incapacitated ones
To be fair this sounds like a general problem of services not being disabled accessible and public EV is just another example of this.
It’s a few years away and probably won’t come to be of use to you but eventually cars will be charged by induction in the same way phones are. You will rock up at the supermarket or wherever and there will be a induction coil in the parking spot. You will come back to the car to a full battery
But to fuel my conventional fuel vehicle, I drive my adapted charabanc to a branch of Shell, Sainsbury's, Morrisons or Texaco. Not Tesco, they don't participate. I park (under cover) at a pump. I turn off the engine. I pick up my phone and open the FuelService app. A few clicks later, an attendant comes to my driver's door and I ask for £50 of diesel. The attendant fills up my car with diesel, while I answer work emails or contemplate the meaning of life. A few short minutes later, I hand over a sheaf of notes (pre drawn out the day before, because I have to plan) OR I give my contactless card to the attendant and hope they don't skim it.
I drive off, mere minutes after arriving and get to work on time, dry and calm.
The current corresponding EV experience would be a disaster, frankly. How many public EV charging stations have staff who come to help? Are under cover? Etc.
So, all this needs ironing out before clobbering people with needing to go electric.
The issues with public transport are separate, but related, because how does one travel, if not by private or public transport, when one cannot ride a bike?
You mention you have an app on your phone and you pay contactless, this tech wasn't available to you 10 years ago. The tech being introduced when legislation comes into force 2030, should be in place to remedy the problems you have, it will be there because it needs to be a success "Years ago, pump attendants were more common. Years ago, people had to get their wheelchair out at the forecourt (dangerous) and wheel inside and ask for help. The rest was the same (minus contactless, you could pay cash). | |||
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"We’ve had 15 vehicles recovered this week as they were sent out of area… you guessed it no working chargers anywhere near site. It’s utterly ridiculous pushing the electric mantra without the infrastructure in place to support it. Part of blame is on the users. Which users? How do you mean? See my previous response. And if there's zero infrastructure for a particular type of user, what then? Is it the fault of the person for having the audacity to be unable to reach or manipulate a heavy cable? For example..." Every public charging station I have used (Tesla and ChargePoint) have had cables easily accessible and weighed no more than 5 pounds of tension needed to move around. All were at heights of 3 feet off the ground, give it take a few inches. If any particular adapters are needed to charge they come with the car. | |||
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"Every new car from 2030 will be electric so you need to get your head around the idea very quickly Well, they'd better come up with better ways to facilitate EVs then, otherwise huge parts of the community will be cut off from private transport. Don't tell me I can use public transport because I can't even get onto the train platform at any railway station within six miles of my house and even if I go to a major mainline station, I am at the mercy of the person who has been tasked with getting the ramp out. Sometimes, they just can't be arsed, or the booking wasn't phoned through, or they're too busy. Heaven forbid you should want to travel today, now?! Reading your post, I assume you have a petrol or diesel car now? In 2030, if you need to change your existing car, you will either buy a second hand petrol or diesel car, or if you want a new one, it will need to be electric. Diesel. I'm well aware, thank you, but as things stand, the infrastructure is completely inaccessible to me and to many thousands of people like me, so the "powers that be" are going to have to start coming up with solutions. You can't have a situation where disabled people can neither independently use a private vehicle nor public transport. Do you have to plan every single journey to the minutae of telling Northern rail exactly which train you're getting and if you miss it (because someone can't be arsed getting a ramp out), you no longer actually qualify for assistance because it's only booked on that specific service? I conversed with a few restaurants/hostelries yesterday and had to ask friends to cancel a booking and go elsewhere because people like me can't get in and there's no toilets I could access. Welcome to disability life. 2030 will need to include we incapacitated ones
To be fair this sounds like a general problem of services not being disabled accessible and public EV is just another example of this.
It’s a few years away and probably won’t come to be of use to you but eventually cars will be charged by induction in the same way phones are. You will rock up at the supermarket or wherever and there will be a induction coil in the parking spot. You will come back to the car to a full battery
But to fuel my conventional fuel vehicle, I drive my adapted charabanc to a branch of Shell, Sainsbury's, Morrisons or Texaco. Not Tesco, they don't participate. I park (under cover) at a pump. I turn off the engine. I pick up my phone and open the FuelService app. A few clicks later, an attendant comes to my driver's door and I ask for £50 of diesel. The attendant fills up my car with diesel, while I answer work emails or contemplate the meaning of life. A few short minutes later, I hand over a sheaf of notes (pre drawn out the day before, because I have to plan) OR I give my contactless card to the attendant and hope they don't skim it.
I drive off, mere minutes after arriving and get to work on time, dry and calm.
The current corresponding EV experience would be a disaster, frankly. How many public EV charging stations have staff who come to help? Are under cover? Etc.
So, all this needs ironing out before clobbering people with needing to go electric.
The issues with public transport are separate, but related, because how does one travel, if not by private or public transport, when one cannot ride a bike?
You mention you have an app on your phone and you pay contactless, this tech wasn't available to you 10 years ago. The tech being introduced when legislation comes into force 2030, should be in place to remedy the problems you have, it will be there because it needs to be a success
Years ago, pump attendants were more common. Years ago, people had to get their wheelchair out at the forecourt (dangerous) and wheel inside and ask for help. The rest was the same (minus contactless, you could pay cash)."And it has improved over time, just like it will by 2030 | |||
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" They will but by the time 2030 comes around who’s going to be buying petrol cars Me" And me | |||
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"If your over 55 buy petrol. In 2030 you will be 63 You will get a cheaper petrol car that : 1.Will cost you less now. 2.Save thousands of pounds now. 3. In 2032 you can buy a 2 year old car at high spec bargain price. 4.you may have given up driving for public transport. If you in your 40s or less go electric. It will just gradually make more and more sense to go electric, tax will be higher you will be prohibited from driving in different places and there will be less and less petrol cars around plus petrol stations will start to shut down as there is less need, it will be the opposite of what it is today there will be charging points everywhere there is a parking spot, because why wouldn’t car parks want to make a bit more money " I can't help wondering if this revolution in moving people around, Constructing and installing millions of new charging facilities, rewiring bits of the national grid to support it... And at the end of it all.... Whilst we've been staring so hard at the trees...thinking we are doing something that will make a difference... That the forest has burnt down. Now, is it good for some people? Sure it is... Does it delay or repair polution? Highly unlikely. Of course in 10 years time our kids could be looking back and think... "what.... You mean people used to drive around in cars with exhausts?" | |||
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"We’ve had 15 vehicles recovered this week as they were sent out of area… you guessed it no working chargers anywhere near site. It’s utterly ridiculous pushing the electric mantra without the infrastructure in place to support it. Part of blame is on the users. Which users? How do you mean? See my previous response. And if there's zero infrastructure for a particular type of user, what then? Is it the fault of the person for having the audacity to be unable to reach or manipulate a heavy cable? For example... Every public charging station I have used (Tesla and ChargePoint) have had cables easily accessible and weighed no more than 5 pounds of tension needed to move around. All were at heights of 3 feet off the ground, give it take a few inches. If any particular adapters are needed to charge they come with the car. " So I have to buy a Tesla? Are you paying? There's no Tesla that will fit my wheelchair in. What do I do, tow it at the back? Is the charging done with a touch screen? Is the touch screen reachable in full from a seated position? Under cover so you don't get your wheelchair soaking wet while operating it? Etc. | |||
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"We’ve had 15 vehicles recovered this week as they were sent out of area… you guessed it no working chargers anywhere near site. It’s utterly ridiculous pushing the electric mantra without the infrastructure in place to support it. Part of blame is on the users. Which users? How do you mean? See my previous response. And if there's zero infrastructure for a particular type of user, what then? Is it the fault of the person for having the audacity to be unable to reach or manipulate a heavy cable? For example... Every public charging station I have used (Tesla and ChargePoint) have had cables easily accessible and weighed no more than 5 pounds of tension needed to move around. All were at heights of 3 feet off the ground, give it take a few inches. If any particular adapters are needed to charge they come with the car. So I have to buy a Tesla? Are you paying? There's no Tesla that will fit my wheelchair in. What do I do, tow it at the back? Is the charging done with a touch screen? Is the touch screen reachable in full from a seated position? Under cover so you don't get your wheelchair soaking wet while operating it? Etc." Never said anything specific to Tesla. Every car company is coming out with fully electric vehicles now. All charging is controlled through apps on your phone and just like everything in this world it’s not free. Full charge on a public station where I am at is around $8 for 284 miles in range. That same range would cost $37 for a car with 30mpg at $4/gal. | |||
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"Is the charging done with a touch screen? Is the touch screen reachable in full from a seated position?" It’s done via an app on your phone | |||
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"We’ve had 15 vehicles recovered this week as they were sent out of area… you guessed it no working chargers anywhere near site. It’s utterly ridiculous pushing the electric mantra without the infrastructure in place to support it. Part of blame is on the users. Which users? How do you mean? See my previous response. And if there's zero infrastructure for a particular type of user, what then? Is it the fault of the person for having the audacity to be unable to reach or manipulate a heavy cable? For example... Every public charging station I have used (Tesla and ChargePoint) have had cables easily accessible and weighed no more than 5 pounds of tension needed to move around. All were at heights of 3 feet off the ground, give it take a few inches. If any particular adapters are needed to charge they come with the car. So I have to buy a Tesla? Are you paying? There's no Tesla that will fit my wheelchair in. What do I do, tow it at the back? Is the charging done with a touch screen? Is the touch screen reachable in full from a seated position? Under cover so you don't get your wheelchair soaking wet while operating it? Etc. Never said anything specific to Tesla. Every car company is coming out with fully electric vehicles now. All charging is controlled through apps on your phone and just like everything in this world it’s not free. Full charge on a public station where I am at is around $8 for 284 miles in range. That same range would cost $37 for a car with 30mpg at $4/gal. " Ah, you're in the USA. I don't think our infrastructure is anywhere near what it is there, especially not the big USA cities. For context, the nearest Tesla charging station to my house is, according to online sources, 17 miles from my house. I'd have to drive through an incredibly congested Manchester city centre to access it and it's impossible to see in advance how it is set up, e.g. up an inaccessible kerb. | |||
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"Is the charging done with a touch screen? Is the touch screen reachable in full from a seated position? It’s done via an app on your phone" So, next is to find £65k for a second hand Tesla that doesn't fit my wheelchair in without breaking it down. I can't stand up long enough to put it back together. I need a car that it fits in without being broken down. Currently, I can choose from a wide range of estate-style cars. I have disabled friends who would be completely unable to lift and attach any kind of cable. They rely on others (as I also do) to lift the petrol pump and to dispense the fuel. Attended charging stations do not appear to be a "thing" yet.... | |||
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"We’ve had 15 vehicles recovered this week as they were sent out of area… you guessed it no working chargers anywhere near site. It’s utterly ridiculous pushing the electric mantra without the infrastructure in place to support it. Part of blame is on the users. Which users? How do you mean? See my previous response. And if there's zero infrastructure for a particular type of user, what then? Is it the fault of the person for having the audacity to be unable to reach or manipulate a heavy cable? For example... Every public charging station I have used (Tesla and ChargePoint) have had cables easily accessible and weighed no more than 5 pounds of tension needed to move around. All were at heights of 3 feet off the ground, give it take a few inches. If any particular adapters are needed to charge they come with the car. So I have to buy a Tesla? Are you paying? There's no Tesla that will fit my wheelchair in. What do I do, tow it at the back? Is the charging done with a touch screen? Is the touch screen reachable in full from a seated position? Under cover so you don't get your wheelchair soaking wet while operating it? Etc. Never said anything specific to Tesla. Every car company is coming out with fully electric vehicles now. All charging is controlled through apps on your phone and just like everything in this world it’s not free. Full charge on a public station where I am at is around $8 for 284 miles in range. That same range would cost $37 for a car with 30mpg at $4/gal. Ah, you're in the USA. I don't think our infrastructure is anywhere near what it is there, especially not the big USA cities. For context, the nearest Tesla charging station to my house is, according to online sources, 17 miles from my house. I'd have to drive through an incredibly congested Manchester city centre to access it and it's impossible to see in advance how it is set up, e.g. up an inaccessible kerb. " I will say outside of metropolitan areas the infrastructure is non-existent. But I’m seeing more and more stations being installed further away from major population hubs. And everything in the US has to be accessible to everyone. | |||
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"We’ve had 15 vehicles recovered this week as they were sent out of area… you guessed it no working chargers anywhere near site. It’s utterly ridiculous pushing the electric mantra without the infrastructure in place to support it. Part of blame is on the users. Which users? How do you mean? See my previous response. And if there's zero infrastructure for a particular type of user, what then? Is it the fault of the person for having the audacity to be unable to reach or manipulate a heavy cable? For example... Every public charging station I have used (Tesla and ChargePoint) have had cables easily accessible and weighed no more than 5 pounds of tension needed to move around. All were at heights of 3 feet off the ground, give it take a few inches. If any particular adapters are needed to charge they come with the car. So I have to buy a Tesla? Are you paying? There's no Tesla that will fit my wheelchair in. What do I do, tow it at the back? Is the charging done with a touch screen? Is the touch screen reachable in full from a seated position? Under cover so you don't get your wheelchair soaking wet while operating it? Etc. Never said anything specific to Tesla. Every car company is coming out with fully electric vehicles now. All charging is controlled through apps on your phone and just like everything in this world it’s not free. Full charge on a public station where I am at is around $8 for 284 miles in range. That same range would cost $37 for a car with 30mpg at $4/gal. Ah, you're in the USA. I don't think our infrastructure is anywhere near what it is there, especially not the big USA cities. For context, the nearest Tesla charging station to my house is, according to online sources, 17 miles from my house. I'd have to drive through an incredibly congested Manchester city centre to access it and it's impossible to see in advance how it is set up, e.g. up an inaccessible kerb. " I don’t know where you live but there are 2 Tesla supercharger in Manchester one has just opened at the Trafford centre, | |||
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"We’ve had 15 vehicles recovered this week as they were sent out of area… you guessed it no working chargers anywhere near site. It’s utterly ridiculous pushing the electric mantra without the infrastructure in place to support it. Part of blame is on the users. Which users? How do you mean? See my previous response. And if there's zero infrastructure for a particular type of user, what then? Is it the fault of the person for having the audacity to be unable to reach or manipulate a heavy cable? For example... Every public charging station I have used (Tesla and ChargePoint) have had cables easily accessible and weighed no more than 5 pounds of tension needed to move around. All were at heights of 3 feet off the ground, give it take a few inches. If any particular adapters are needed to charge they come with the car. So I have to buy a Tesla? Are you paying? There's no Tesla that will fit my wheelchair in. What do I do, tow it at the back? Is the charging done with a touch screen? Is the touch screen reachable in full from a seated position? Under cover so you don't get your wheelchair soaking wet while operating it? Etc. Never said anything specific to Tesla. Every car company is coming out with fully electric vehicles now. All charging is controlled through apps on your phone and just like everything in this world it’s not free. Full charge on a public station where I am at is around $8 for 284 miles in range. That same range would cost $37 for a car with 30mpg at $4/gal. Ah, you're in the USA. I don't think our infrastructure is anywhere near what it is there, especially not the big USA cities. For context, the nearest Tesla charging station to my house is, according to online sources, 17 miles from my house. I'd have to drive through an incredibly congested Manchester city centre to access it and it's impossible to see in advance how it is set up, e.g. up an inaccessible kerb. I don’t know where you live but there are 2 Tesla supercharger in Manchester one has just opened at the Trafford centre, " I'm not saying on the forum, but I can confirm that both Manchester city centre and Trafford Centre are over 16 miles from my (semi rural) location | |||
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"Is the charging done with a touch screen? Is the touch screen reachable in full from a seated position? It’s done via an app on your phone So, next is to find £65k for a second hand Tesla that doesn't fit my wheelchair in without breaking it down. I can't stand up long enough to put it back together. I need a car that it fits in without being broken down. Currently, I can choose from a wide range of estate-style cars. I have disabled friends who would be completely unable to lift and attach any kind of cable. They rely on others (as I also do) to lift the petrol pump and to dispense the fuel. Attended charging stations do not appear to be a "thing" yet...." Why would it have to be a Tesla? As great as they are, there are plenty of other great electric cars now (including estate/cross over/4*4s that would take a wheelchair whole) and this will only increase over time, with prices coming down the same as with any newer technologies. Additionally, I think you’re overestimating how much EVs cost. You can get them much cheaper than £65k brand new, let alone used; and yes that includes Teslas. I won’t argue your point on disable access as I’m fortunate enough to be in a position where I’ve never had to consider this point, so in this instance of course, an EV may not be suitable for your specific needs. But what I would say is that infrastructure continues to improve across the country at pace and I’m confident this is something that will be addressed. | |||
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"Is the charging done with a touch screen? Is the touch screen reachable in full from a seated position? It’s done via an app on your phone So, next is to find £65k for a second hand Tesla that doesn't fit my wheelchair in without breaking it down. I can't stand up long enough to put it back together. I need a car that it fits in without being broken down. Currently, I can choose from a wide range of estate-style cars. I have disabled friends who would be completely unable to lift and attach any kind of cable. They rely on others (as I also do) to lift the petrol pump and to dispense the fuel. Attended charging stations do not appear to be a "thing" yet...." BSI are looking at standardising all the things you are mentioning, to meet the needs of disabled drivers. It will be in place, and will be law to provide. | |||
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" And everything in the US has to be accessible to everyone. " Despite some legal protections here, it is not the case that everything has to be universally accessible, sadly. I encounter problems on a daily basis. | |||
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"Ah, you're in the USA. I don't think our infrastructure is anywhere near what it is there, especially not the big USA cities. For context, the nearest Tesla charging station to my house is, according to online sources, 17 miles from my house. " FWIW you don’t have to use a Tesla charger. Any electric charger station is usable. The Tesla ones are just more convenient to use in general | |||
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" I won’t argue your point on disable access as I’m fortunate enough to be in a position where I’ve never had to consider this point, so in this instance of course, an EV may not be suitable for your specific needs. But what I would say is that infrastructure continues to improve across the country at pace and I’m confident this is something that will be addressed." But if an EV wouldn't be suitable for my needs, how would I drive a private vehicle in the post conventional fuel era, save maintaining a vintage Renault and fuelling it with sunflower oil or something?!
And I mentioned Tesla because I was informed by another poster about the ease of charging one's Tesla. I looked on the Tesla website and the cost of a used 2017 Model X (looks like the biggest they do?) is over £65k. | |||
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"Is the charging done with a touch screen? Is the touch screen reachable in full from a seated position? It’s done via an app on your phone So, next is to find £65k for a second hand Tesla that doesn't fit my wheelchair in without breaking it down. I can't stand up long enough to put it back together. I need a car that it fits in without being broken down. Currently, I can choose from a wide range of estate-style cars. I have disabled friends who would be completely unable to lift and attach any kind of cable. They rely on others (as I also do) to lift the petrol pump and to dispense the fuel. Attended charging stations do not appear to be a "thing" yet...." Give it time for the market and technology to develop its till in the infancy stage. Pretty soon every car model will have a ICE and EV option. | |||
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"Ah, you're in the USA. I don't think our infrastructure is anywhere near what it is there, especially not the big USA cities. For context, the nearest Tesla charging station to my house is, according to online sources, 17 miles from my house. FWIW you don’t have to use a Tesla charger. Any electric charger station is usable. The Tesla ones are just more convenient to use in general " It's only useable if you can get to it and reach the tools, unless every single charging station is on an app? | |||
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"Is the charging done with a touch screen? Is the touch screen reachable in full from a seated position? It’s done via an app on your phone So, next is to find £65k for a second hand Tesla that doesn't fit my wheelchair in without breaking it down. I can't stand up long enough to put it back together. I need a car that it fits in without being broken down. Currently, I can choose from a wide range of estate-style cars. I have disabled friends who would be completely unable to lift and attach any kind of cable. They rely on others (as I also do) to lift the petrol pump and to dispense the fuel. Attended charging stations do not appear to be a "thing" yet.... Give it time for the market and technology to develop its till in the infancy stage. Pretty soon every car model will have a ICE and EV option. " We're on a time limit though, by 2030, no new ICE cars to be sold and so then will commence the countdown to you being unable to get spare parts for your (now defunct) ICE, becomes far more expensive to maintain them, cost of fuel rockets further etc etc. 2030 is 8 years away. I'm genuinely hoping for a LOT of very rapid progress in what is a short space of the time really. | |||
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"Is the charging done with a touch screen? Is the touch screen reachable in full from a seated position? It’s done via an app on your phone So, next is to find £65k for a second hand Tesla that doesn't fit my wheelchair in without breaking it down. I can't stand up long enough to put it back together. I need a car that it fits in without being broken down. Currently, I can choose from a wide range of estate-style cars. I have disabled friends who would be completely unable to lift and attach any kind of cable. They rely on others (as I also do) to lift the petrol pump and to dispense the fuel. Attended charging stations do not appear to be a "thing" yet.... Give it time for the market and technology to develop its till in the infancy stage. Pretty soon every car model will have a ICE and EV option. We're on a time limit though, by 2030, no new ICE cars to be sold and so then will commence the countdown to you being unable to get spare parts for your (now defunct) ICE, becomes far more expensive to maintain them, cost of fuel rockets further etc etc. 2030 is 8 years away. I'm genuinely hoping for a LOT of very rapid progress in what is a short space of the time really. " I can go into a hours long post about the economics behind it but a few points: 1. I can still buy Model T parts and the last of those rolled of the production line a century ago. 2. It’s not going to be January 1st 2030 and the switch is flipped on ICE. If that happens then bravo for the government actually hitting a deadline. 3. Oil is supply and demand driven pricing. If demand drops, price drops until a new market equilibrium is established but it will not be much different than today. | |||
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"Is the charging done with a touch screen? Is the touch screen reachable in full from a seated position? It’s done via an app on your phone So, next is to find £65k for a second hand Tesla that doesn't fit my wheelchair in without breaking it down. I can't stand up long enough to put it back together. I need a car that it fits in without being broken down. Currently, I can choose from a wide range of estate-style cars. I have disabled friends who would be completely unable to lift and attach any kind of cable. They rely on others (as I also do) to lift the petrol pump and to dispense the fuel. Attended charging stations do not appear to be a "thing" yet.... Give it time for the market and technology to develop its till in the infancy stage. Pretty soon every car model will have a ICE and EV option. We're on a time limit though, by 2030, no new ICE cars to be sold and so then will commence the countdown to you being unable to get spare parts for your (now defunct) ICE, becomes far more expensive to maintain them, cost of fuel rockets further etc etc. 2030 is 8 years away. I'm genuinely hoping for a LOT of very rapid progress in what is a short space of the time really. I can go into a hours long post about the economics behind it but a few points: 1. I can still buy Model T parts and the last of those rolled of the production line a century ago. 2. It’s not going to be January 1st 2030 and the switch is flipped on ICE. If that happens then bravo for the government actually hitting a deadline. 3. Oil is supply and demand driven pricing. If demand drops, price drops until a new market equilibrium is established but it will not be much different than today. " Well, unfortunately I'll be that saddo clinging on to the wreck of their adapted French ICE (2012 model). I definitely want to try and mitigate climate change etc but I also want to keep my FT job so I don't become a burden to society (any more than I already am). I'd also like Tesco to join the refuelling app, but that's a different story | |||
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"Anyway the thread was to gauge if the current general opinion of electric cars had changed. Going from the responses I’ve had to this thread I’d say no it hasn’t. The uk swinging population still seems resistant to the possibility of EVs as a viable alternative to petrol or diesel cars. Maybe swinging clubs and dogging hotspots should offer free charging " More clubs need to be accessible too!!
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"But if an EV wouldn't be suitable for my needs, how would I drive a private vehicle in the post conventional fuel era, save maintaining a vintage Renault and fuelling it with sunflower oil or something?!
And I mentioned Tesla because I was informed by another poster about the ease of charging one's Tesla. I looked on the Tesla website and the cost of a used 2017 Model X (looks like the biggest they do?) is over £65k. "I meant it might not be suitable for your specific needs at this point in time. Infrastructure continues to improve and I’m sure the access needs of everyone will be something that is taken into consideration as it becomes more widely built up. Looking at a Tesla model X is the same principle as looking at an Audi Q7 and wondering why it’s more expensive than the A3/4/5. You’re effectively looking at the Rolls Royce of electric cars there so yes, that’s going to come at a price. | |||
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"Is there more support now or are a lot of people still not convinced. Are there any electric car owners out there, or people who are adamant they will never go EV" I've had my Honda for the last 12 years. 175,000 miles. Hopefully I can get a few more before we are all coerced into all electric. | |||
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"Well, unfortunately I'll be that saddo clinging on to the wreck of their adapted French ICE (2012 model). I definitely want to try and mitigate climate change etc but I also want to keep my FT job so I don't become a burden to society (any more than I already am). I'd also like Tesco to join the refuelling app, but that's a different story "Well if it helps you feel any better, hanging on to your existing car is much better for the environment than actually changing to a new one that needs to be manufactured etc… | |||
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"But if an EV wouldn't be suitable for my needs, how would I drive a private vehicle in the post conventional fuel era, save maintaining a vintage Renault and fuelling it with sunflower oil or something?!
And I mentioned Tesla because I was informed by another poster about the ease of charging one's Tesla. I looked on the Tesla website and the cost of a used 2017 Model X (looks like the biggest they do?) is over £65k.
I meant it might not be suitable for your specific needs at this point in time. Infrastructure continues to improve and I’m sure the access needs of everyone will be something that is taken into consideration as it becomes more widely built up.
Looking at a Tesla model X is the same principle as looking at an Audi Q7 and wondering why it’s more expensive than the A3/4/5. You’re effectively looking at the Rolls Royce of electric cars there so yes, that’s going to come at a price. "I was working off the earlier comment that Tesla's infrastructure might be more accessible, including their charger cables, but that would entail buying a Tesla, which is jolly expensive, yes. For context, I'm currently driving a 2012 adapted Renault estate, for which I paid £8500 plus a clapped out old Scenic with a serious electrical problem. That's the most I have ever paid for a car in my life. I paid a to have it adapted when my disability arose because it was cheaper than trading in any buying a similar auto car. It's caused me not one day of trouble. I've only ever paid for routine service, MOT, tyres and I now need a new rear wiper because a baboon at Knowsley Safari Park snaffled it..... | |||
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"Anyway the thread was to gauge if the current general opinion of electric cars had changed. Going from the responses I’ve had to this thread I’d say no it hasn’t. The uk swinging population still seems resistant to the possibility of EVs as a viable alternative to petrol or diesel cars. Maybe swinging clubs and dogging hotspots should offer free charging More clubs need to be accessible too!!
Sorry, I'll pee off now "Your not wrong I can’t think of a single club I have been to that doesn’t have stairs | |||
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"It's either electric or hydrogen. There are pros and cons to both. For electric, the main negatives are short range, lack of charging points and shortage of generating capacity. " I’m sure this same conversation was had when ICE came out. No gas stations, only can go X amount of miles, etc. while my horse and buggy is cheaper to feed, less expensive, more uses, etc. | |||
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"It's either electric or hydrogen. There are pros and cons to both. For electric, the main negatives are short range, lack of charging points and shortage of generating capacity. " hydrogen is electric, they just use the hydrogen to store the electric then get at it using a fuel cell. What you mean is battery vehicles verses hydrogen vehicles Think of it this way, we get the electric in battery vehicles the same way we get electric to our lights and everything else. Getting hydrogen into a car would require a whole new infrastructure to transport it and store it. It’s tricky to store btw. Also even tho it’s the most abundant element in the universe none of it is on planet earth it’s all in space. So if you want it you have to make it, to make it you have to use electricity;-) may as well just put that electricity in your car. | |||
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I think it's going to be a Electric (Battery if you insist) for smaller vehicles and Hydrogen for the larger ones like Lorrys mostly cause they will have the capacity to carry the cylinders required. | |||
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"Anyway the thread was to gauge if the current general opinion of electric cars had changed. Going from the responses I’ve had to this thread I’d say no it hasn’t. The uk swinging population still seems resistant to the possibility of EVs as a viable alternative to petrol or diesel cars. Maybe swinging clubs and dogging hotspots should offer free charging More clubs need to be accessible too!!
Sorry, I'll pee off now
Your not wrong I can’t think of a single club I have been to that doesn’t have stairs "Quest in Leeds is the only one we're aware of, about 40 miles from us. We'll try it one day, when we get a childfree weekend! But yes, the vast majority are not do-able unfortunately. | |||
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"Anyway the thread was to gauge if the current general opinion of electric cars had changed. Going from the responses I’ve had to this thread I’d say no it hasn’t. The uk swinging population still seems resistant to the possibility of EVs as a viable alternative to petrol or diesel cars. Maybe swinging clubs and dogging hotspots should offer free charging More clubs need to be accessible too!!
Sorry, I'll pee off now
Your not wrong I can’t think of a single club I have been to that doesn’t have stairs
Quest in Leeds is the only one we're aware of, about 40 miles from us. We'll try it one day, when we get a childfree weekend! But yes, the vast majority are not do-able unfortunately. "All the ones in and around Manchester have lots of stairs if memory serves me correctly | |||
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"Anyway the thread was to gauge if the current general opinion of electric cars had changed. Going from the responses I’ve had to this thread I’d say no it hasn’t. The uk swinging population still seems resistant to the possibility of EVs as a viable alternative to petrol or diesel cars. Maybe swinging clubs and dogging hotspots should offer free charging More clubs need to be accessible too!!
Sorry, I'll pee off now
Your not wrong I can’t think of a single club I have been to that doesn’t have stairs
Quest in Leeds is the only one we're aware of, about 40 miles from us. We'll try it one day, when we get a childfree weekend! But yes, the vast majority are not do-able unfortunately.
All the ones in and around Manchester have lots of stairs if memory serves me correctly "Correct-a-mundo. I did Cupids on crutches once. I had to stay in the bar area and adjoining spaces and I was in agony the next day. Not ideal by any stretch. Mr KC could have carried my chair up the stairs but it wouldn't fit/go anywhere other than the bar area unfortunately. Loos not accessible at all either unfortunately. | |||
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"Anyway the thread was to gauge if the current general opinion of electric cars had changed. Going from the responses I’ve had to this thread I’d say no it hasn’t. The uk swinging population still seems resistant to the possibility of EVs as a viable alternative to petrol or diesel cars. Maybe swinging clubs and dogging hotspots should offer free charging More clubs need to be accessible too!!
Sorry, I'll pee off now
Your not wrong I can’t think of a single club I have been to that doesn’t have stairs
Quest in Leeds is the only one we're aware of, about 40 miles from us. We'll try it one day, when we get a childfree weekend! But yes, the vast majority are not do-able unfortunately.
All the ones in and around Manchester have lots of stairs if memory serves me correctly
Correct-a-mundo. I did Cupids on crutches once. I had to stay in the bar area and adjoining spaces and I was in agony the next day. Not ideal by any stretch. Mr KC could have carried my chair up the stairs but it wouldn't fit/go anywhere other than the bar area unfortunately. Loos not accessible at all either unfortunately. "Nightmare | |||
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"... Isn't an 8 year warranty the gold standard in the automotive world? " No. It is a binding contract to pay rip off servicing charges for eight years. | |||
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"... Isn't an 8 year warranty the gold standard in the automotive world? " No. It is a binding contract to pay rip off servicing charges for eight years. | |||
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"It's either electric or hydrogen." Don't forget bio-fuel. There is already a synthetic fuel that is 100% compatible with diesel. Pros: the infrastructure is already there, it works in all of our existing vehicles, it's 100% carbon neutral. Cons: it's a bit more expensive than fossil diesel. Why aren't we talking more about that stuff. | |||
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"hydrogen is electric, they just use the hydrogen to store the electric then get at it using a fuel cell. What you mean is battery vehicles verses hydrogen vehicles" That's ridiculous. You can't store electricity in hydrogen, a fuel cell doesn't just filter the electricity out of the hydrogen. To the vast majority of people, the details of the power train are unimportant. The way to determine the fuel type is by looking at what you put into it to make it work. In the case of vehicles with batteries, you put electricity into them, so they're electric cars. In the case of hydrogen fuel cell vehicles, you put hydrogen into them, so they're hydrogen cars. After all, that noisy train chugging past my house right now is called a diesel train. No one cares that it uses a diesel ICE to generate electricity to turn the wheels, it's still called a diesel train. The rest of that post is, errm, unusual. | |||
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"It's either electric or hydrogen. Don't forget bio-fuel. There is already a synthetic fuel that is 100% compatible with diesel. Pros: the infrastructure is already there, it works in all of our existing vehicles, it's 100% carbon neutral. Cons: it's a bit more expensive than fossil diesel. Why aren't we talking more about that stuff." That sounds like the r*peseed oil which costs me as little as 60P per litre on the grocery shelves. Someone will doubtless be adding punitive duty there. I believe that some buses were using something similar and had correspondingly lower emissions. I am lucky enough to own a fantastic Japanese grey import diesel MPV, which runs happily and quite legally on cooking oil (mixed with forecourt diesel in winter). Only problem is that a certain nearby Mayor doesn't agree, so I have to use my petrol car should I want to venture into his god forsaken cesspit of a city. | |||
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"That sounds like the r*peseed oil which costs me as little as 60P per litre on the grocery shelves." It is basically vegetable oil, but it's been treated so that it matches the specifications for diesel exactly. That means that you can just put it in your tank with no other modifications, and without voiding your warranty. It's called HVO fuel. | |||
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