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Russians banned from Wimbledon
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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So I just read on the news that Wimbledon has banned Russian and
Belarusian players this year. I don't know but personally I think there are some things in life that should be kept out of politics and vice versa. Not withstanding what's happening currently. |
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You can’t change a country without the people wanting it
Sanctions are designed to effect the population as little as possible but they have to in some ways. Without the people being effected, they won’t push for their own government to change
Source : friend is leading the sanctions effort for a banking firm in London. I get some juicy goss |
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It's not just 'politics' tho is it? Here we have a rogue nation holding a nuclear gun to our heads whilst invading a democratic country. The notion of Putin as a renegade 'sole actor' is a fallacy - he was elected by 77% of Russians in the full knowledge of his policies and doctrine. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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My, perhaps terrible take, is that it’s not really a gesture I agree with. I think it assumes all Russian athletes are in agreement with the actions of their government and also assumes that punishing them for ‘belonging’ to a nation will pressure that government to reconsider their actions? I do think politics has a place in sport but I think it has a place considering the viewpoints of athletes as individuals not assuming those viewpoints based on nationality. I’m British and pretty much despise most of the decisions the government and monarchy have taken historically and in present day. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"My, perhaps terrible take, is that it’s not really a gesture I agree with. I think it assumes all Russian athletes are in agreement with the actions of their government and also assumes that punishing them for ‘belonging’ to a nation will pressure that government to reconsider their actions? I do think politics has a place in sport but I think it has a place considering the viewpoints of athletes as individuals not assuming those viewpoints based on nationality. I’m British and pretty much despise most of the decisions the government and monarchy have taken historically and in present day. "
Particularly the decisions of the government when it’s come to war.  |
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The citizens of Ukraine are being affected daily by Russia's actions. I don't see why the citizens of Russia, including its sportspeople shouldn't be.
War isn't pretty, it's not something that can be carried out fairly. It's a shame that eventually it will be brought to an end by men in suits and uniforms sitting at a table and talking but first a lot of people need to die...I think a few people missing tennis matches is a minor problem |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The citizens of Ukraine are being affected daily by Russia's actions. I don't see why the citizens of Russia, including its sportspeople shouldn't be.
War isn't pretty, it's not something that can be carried out fairly. It's a shame that eventually it will be brought to an end by men in suits and uniforms sitting at a table and talking but first a lot of people need to die...I think a few people missing tennis matches is a minor problem"
It is a minor problem. But it’s not something that I think is going to contribute to the end of this situation.
Anyway just another reason that nations and nationality are not something I agree with. |
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I dont really care to be honest. I can see why they have been banned as sporting tournaments bring prestige, I just dont think it has any bearing on the greater scheme of things. Let's face it, the planet is fucked and eventually we will wipe ourselves out. Sanctioning russia, or even stopping them militarily will just hasten this process anyway, so what's the point? |
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"The citizens of Ukraine are being affected daily by Russia's actions. I don't see why the citizens of Russia, including its sportspeople shouldn't be.
War isn't pretty, it's not something that can be carried out fairly. It's a shame that eventually it will be brought to an end by men in suits and uniforms sitting at a table and talking but first a lot of people need to die...I think a few people missing tennis matches is a minor problem
It is a minor problem. But it’s not something that I think is going to contribute to the end of this situation.
Anyway just another reason that nations and nationality are not something I agree with. "
Meanwhile Steve here we are. What's to be done? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The citizens of Ukraine are being affected daily by Russia's actions. I don't see why the citizens of Russia, including its sportspeople shouldn't be.
War isn't pretty, it's not something that can be carried out fairly. It's a shame that eventually it will be brought to an end by men in suits and uniforms sitting at a table and talking but first a lot of people need to die...I think a few people missing tennis matches is a minor problem
It is a minor problem. But it’s not something that I think is going to contribute to the end of this situation.
Anyway just another reason that nations and nationality are not something I agree with.
Meanwhile Steve here we are. What's to be done?"
I hear you. And I don’t have the answers. But my question at this point is really, what are we *actually* doing anyway? That’s contributing to ending this situation?
And my feelings are how does this help end this situation? If it doesn’t, then I am not sure I agree with athletes (who may be opposed to the actions of their government) not being able to do what they enjoy. But as I said I have zero answers. I’m just a guy with shit opinions  |
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It would be interesting to know how many of the sanctions have any effect. How many of the headlines are actually implemented effectively and how many are just a salve to rub on our consciences and give the illusion of actually doing something whilst not really. I mean the g20 is already fragmented and they've only been at war for a few months. The EU are still propping up the Russian finances with oil and gas.... Just feels like a bit of tokenism. Can't imagine the bulk of the Russian population give a hoot about what happens at Wimbledon. |
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"It would be interesting to know how many of the sanctions have any effect. How many of the headlines are actually implemented effectively and how many are just a salve to rub on our consciences and give the illusion of actually doing something whilst not really. I mean the g20 is already fragmented and they've only been at war for a few months. The EU are still propping up the Russian finances with oil and gas.... Just feels like a bit of tokenism. Can't imagine the bulk of the Russian population give a hoot about what happens at Wimbledon. "
It's all a salve tbf, no one wants to be the first to push him into starting WW3 |
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By *evaquitCouple
over a year ago
Catthorpe |
The players of each country are between a rock and a hard place, speak out against your country and they'll be serious consequences, look at the female Chinese player, not officially seen since.
Personally I don't feel anything for the players, they're paying the price for their countries decisions that they're citizens off, they have to deal with it. |
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"The citizens of Ukraine are being affected daily by Russia's actions. I don't see why the citizens of Russia, including its sportspeople shouldn't be.
War isn't pretty, it's not something that can be carried out fairly. It's a shame that eventually it will be brought to an end by men in suits and uniforms sitting at a table and talking but first a lot of people need to die...I think a few people missing tennis matches is a minor problem
It is a minor problem. But it’s not something that I think is going to contribute to the end of this situation.
Anyway just another reason that nations and nationality are not something I agree with.
Meanwhile Steve here we are. What's to be done?
I hear you. And I don’t have the answers. But my question at this point is really, what are we *actually* doing anyway? That’s contributing to ending this situation?
And my feelings are how does this help end this situation? If it doesn’t, then I am not sure I agree with athletes (who may be opposed to the actions of their government) not being able to do what they enjoy. But as I said I have zero answers. I’m just a guy with shit opinions "
As are we all Steve, as are we all.
I look back over the history of the world and it's littered with everything from minor skirmishes to full on wars.
My grandparents were involved in WW1 and 2. My parents to a lesser extent in WW2. Nothing. Ever. Changes and it's the little people like you and I and my parents, grandparents and the exhausted Ukrainian citizens who pay the biggest price. |
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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"It would be interesting to know how many of the sanctions have any effect. How many of the headlines are actually implemented effectively and how many are just a salve to rub on our consciences and give the illusion of actually doing something whilst not really. I mean the g20 is already fragmented and they've only been at war for a few months. The EU are still propping up the Russian finances with oil and gas.... Just feels like a bit of tokenism. Can't imagine the bulk of the Russian population give a hoot about what happens at Wimbledon. "
If a Russian was to win, there would be interest in Russia and from its people. A win would have the opportunity to stoke pride and patriotism. Putin would like that, as would any leader. |
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A Russian tennis player wins Wimbledon, the crowd boo him or her. Both players humiliated throughout the match but ultimately win it. You don’t think the Russian state media will use it as propaganda ? The mighty Russian bear wins Wimbledon through adversity ?
You can’t take Politics out of any worldwide activity, just look at South Africa back during Apartheid. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So I just read on the news that Wimbledon has banned Russian and
Belarusian players this year. I don't know but personally I think there are some things in life that should be kept out of politics and vice versa. Not withstanding what's happening currently. "
This is nothing to do with politicians or politics and everything to do with doing the right thing as human beings. It’s a shame for Russian athletes, but in my view, if they’re representing their country, they’re not welcome.
If this was the uk slaughtering innocent civilians, I’d not want to represent my own country either, in protest.
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"A Russian tennis player wins Wimbledon, the crowd boo him or her. Both players humiliated throughout the match but ultimately win it. You don’t think the Russian state media will use it as propaganda ? The mighty Russian bear wins Wimbledon through adversity ?
You can’t take Politics out of any worldwide activity, just look at South Africa back during Apartheid. "
I genuinely don't know the answer - were South African athletes barred from competition during the apartheid years? |
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"I think once we get into atrocities, it's a bit beyond "politics".
Off they fuck. yea I'm pretty sure the Russian tennis players are in agreement with putin  "
I'm afraid that there are casualties when war is declared. I'll save my sympathy for the Ukrainians if it's all the same - and perhaps some of the Russian conscripts who didn't have a lot of choice. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"A Russian tennis player wins Wimbledon, the crowd boo him or her. Both players humiliated throughout the match but ultimately win it. You don’t think the Russian state media will use it as propaganda ? The mighty Russian bear wins Wimbledon through adversity ?
You can’t take Politics out of any worldwide activity, just look at South Africa back during Apartheid.
I genuinely don't know the answer - were South African athletes barred from competition during the apartheid years?"
Lol |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
And my feelings are how does this help end this situation? If it doesn’t, then I am not sure I agree with athletes (who may be opposed to the actions of their government) not being able to do what they enjoy. But as I said I have zero answers. I’m just a guy with shit opinions
As are we all Steve, as are we all.
I look back over the history of the world and it's littered with everything from minor skirmishes to full on wars.
My grandparents were involved in WW1 and 2. My parents to a lesser extent in WW2. Nothing. Ever. Changes and it's the little people like you and I and my parents, grandparents and the exhausted Ukrainian citizens who pay the biggest price."
I agree. Ukrainians are the victims here. As I said I accept my take is probably a terrible take but I don’t see this act as radical, helpful or anything really other than a gesture that doesn’t actually impact the people that are causing suffering to millions of people. To pretend all ordinary Russians are supportive or are to blame is not exactly the best outlook imo and I think it opens the doors for xenophobia. In my opinion. And again I just don’t see how that makes the situation any better or closer to resolution? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I think once we get into atrocities, it's a bit beyond "politics".
Off they fuck. yea I'm pretty sure the Russian tennis players are in agreement with putin
I'm afraid that there are casualties when war is declared. I'll save my sympathy for the Ukrainians if it's all the same - and perhaps some of the Russian conscripts who didn't have a lot of choice."
Swing, are these the only people that get sympathy in this situation, from you? |
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"
And my feelings are how does this help end this situation? If it doesn’t, then I am not sure I agree with athletes (who may be opposed to the actions of their government) not being able to do what they enjoy. But as I said I have zero answers. I’m just a guy with shit opinions
As are we all Steve, as are we all.
I look back over the history of the world and it's littered with everything from minor skirmishes to full on wars.
My grandparents were involved in WW1 and 2. My parents to a lesser extent in WW2. Nothing. Ever. Changes and it's the little people like you and I and my parents, grandparents and the exhausted Ukrainian citizens who pay the biggest price.
I agree. Ukrainians are the victims here. As I said I accept my take is probably a terrible take but I don’t see this act as radical, helpful or anything really other than a gesture that doesn’t actually impact the people that are causing suffering to millions of people. To pretend all ordinary Russians are supportive or are to blame is not exactly the best outlook imo and I think it opens the doors for xenophobia. In my opinion. And again I just don’t see how that makes the situation any better or closer to resolution? "
I think it'll be economic sanctions that play a bigger role, but I don't see that a pile of gestures as well can hurt. |
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"I think once we get into atrocities, it's a bit beyond "politics".
Off they fuck. yea I'm pretty sure the Russian tennis players are in agreement with putin
I'm afraid that there are casualties when war is declared. I'll save my sympathy for the Ukrainians if it's all the same - and perhaps some of the Russian conscripts who didn't have a lot of choice.
Swing, are these the only people that get sympathy in this situation, from you? "
No. But it doesn't extend to elite athletes. |
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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"
And my feelings are how does this help end this situation? If it doesn’t, then I am not sure I agree with athletes (who may be opposed to the actions of their government) not being able to do what they enjoy. But as I said I have zero answers. I’m just a guy with shit opinions
As are we all Steve, as are we all.
I look back over the history of the world and it's littered with everything from minor skirmishes to full on wars.
My grandparents were involved in WW1 and 2. My parents to a lesser extent in WW2. Nothing. Ever. Changes and it's the little people like you and I and my parents, grandparents and the exhausted Ukrainian citizens who pay the biggest price.
I agree. Ukrainians are the victims here. As I said I accept my take is probably a terrible take but I don’t see this act as radical, helpful or anything really other than a gesture that doesn’t actually impact the people that are causing suffering to millions of people. To pretend all ordinary Russians are supportive or are to blame is not exactly the best outlook imo and I think it opens the doors for xenophobia. In my opinion. And again I just don’t see how that makes the situation any better or closer to resolution? "
The West are not going to start a physical war with Russia, but toppling Putin is probably at the top of the must do list.
Creating pressure from within, no matter how trivial to many, will to some be very important.
Russian tennis players not being able to compete, will be known by fans of tennis in Russia. They might question this, look a little further than the propaganda that is being pumped in today. It might change opinion, and enough opinions changed creates opportunities for change itself.
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
And my feelings are how does this help end this situation? If it doesn’t, then I am not sure I agree with athletes (who may be opposed to the actions of their government) not being able to do what they enjoy. But as I said I have zero answers. I’m just a guy with shit opinions
As are we all Steve, as are we all.
I look back over the history of the world and it's littered with everything from minor skirmishes to full on wars.
My grandparents were involved in WW1 and 2. My parents to a lesser extent in WW2. Nothing. Ever. Changes and it's the little people like you and I and my parents, grandparents and the exhausted Ukrainian citizens who pay the biggest price.
I agree. Ukrainians are the victims here. As I said I accept my take is probably a terrible take but I don’t see this act as radical, helpful or anything really other than a gesture that doesn’t actually impact the people that are causing suffering to millions of people. To pretend all ordinary Russians are supportive or are to blame is not exactly the best outlook imo and I think it opens the doors for xenophobia. In my opinion. And again I just don’t see how that makes the situation any better or closer to resolution?
I think it'll be economic sanctions that play a bigger role, but I don't see that a pile of gestures as well can hurt."
Do you think this in no way leads to xenophobia? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I think once we get into atrocities, it's a bit beyond "politics".
Off they fuck. yea I'm pretty sure the Russian tennis players are in agreement with putin
I'm afraid that there are casualties when war is declared. I'll save my sympathy for the Ukrainians if it's all the same - and perhaps some of the Russian conscripts who didn't have a lot of choice.
Swing, are these the only people that get sympathy in this situation, from you?
No. But it doesn't extend to elite athletes."
Because they’re rich? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
And my feelings are how does this help end this situation? If it doesn’t, then I am not sure I agree with athletes (who may be opposed to the actions of their government) not being able to do what they enjoy. But as I said I have zero answers. I’m just a guy with shit opinions
As are we all Steve, as are we all.
I look back over the history of the world and it's littered with everything from minor skirmishes to full on wars.
My grandparents were involved in WW1 and 2. My parents to a lesser extent in WW2. Nothing. Ever. Changes and it's the little people like you and I and my parents, grandparents and the exhausted Ukrainian citizens who pay the biggest price.
I agree. Ukrainians are the victims here. As I said I accept my take is probably a terrible take but I don’t see this act as radical, helpful or anything really other than a gesture that doesn’t actually impact the people that are causing suffering to millions of people. To pretend all ordinary Russians are supportive or are to blame is not exactly the best outlook imo and I think it opens the doors for xenophobia. In my opinion. And again I just don’t see how that makes the situation any better or closer to resolution?
The West are not going to start a physical war with Russia, but toppling Putin is probably at the top of the must do list.
Creating pressure from within, no matter how trivial to many, will to some be very important.
Russian tennis players not being able to compete, will be known by fans of tennis in Russia. They might question this, look a little further than the propaganda that is being pumped in today. It might change opinion, and enough opinions changed creates opportunities for change itself.
"
I hear this. But again doesn’t this undermine or maybe downplay the resistance to war already going on in Russia? Also how dangerous it is for those resisting and opposing government? And doesn’t it place huge emphasis on the possibility that all Russian tennis fans go down the path of rejecting govt propaganda rather than embracing it on a (us against them) level? |
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"
And my feelings are how does this help end this situation? If it doesn’t, then I am not sure I agree with athletes (who may be opposed to the actions of their government) not being able to do what they enjoy. But as I said I have zero answers. I’m just a guy with shit opinions
As are we all Steve, as are we all.
I look back over the history of the world and it's littered with everything from minor skirmishes to full on wars.
My grandparents were involved in WW1 and 2. My parents to a lesser extent in WW2. Nothing. Ever. Changes and it's the little people like you and I and my parents, grandparents and the exhausted Ukrainian citizens who pay the biggest price.
I agree. Ukrainians are the victims here. As I said I accept my take is probably a terrible take but I don’t see this act as radical, helpful or anything really other than a gesture that doesn’t actually impact the people that are causing suffering to millions of people. To pretend all ordinary Russians are supportive or are to blame is not exactly the best outlook imo and I think it opens the doors for xenophobia. In my opinion. And again I just don’t see how that makes the situation any better or closer to resolution?
I think it'll be economic sanctions that play a bigger role, but I don't see that a pile of gestures as well can hurt.
Do you think this in no way leads to xenophobia? "
I think that's up to us as individuals, to not be sucked into it (and yes, I suspect that will fail on a broad scale, but I'm not sure that xenophobia will be particularly tipped by Wimbledon. It'll be a broader "these are bad guys and we only do black or white rhetoric".)
I have sympathy for ordinary Russians who lack the information and the freedom we have. I'm not holding their support for this war against them, they're victims too.
I don't extend that to the elite. Whether that be oligarchs or athletes. |
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"I think once we get into atrocities, it's a bit beyond "politics".
Off they fuck. yea I'm pretty sure the Russian tennis players are in agreement with putin
I'm afraid that there are casualties when war is declared. I'll save my sympathy for the Ukrainians if it's all the same - and perhaps some of the Russian conscripts who didn't have a lot of choice.
Swing, are these the only people that get sympathy in this situation, from you?
No. But it doesn't extend to elite athletes.
Because they’re rich? "
Degrees of privilege, ultimately. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I think it'll be economic sanctions that play a bigger role, but I don't see that a pile of gestures as well can hurt.
Do you think this in no way leads to xenophobia?
I think that's up to us as individuals, to not be sucked into it (and yes, I suspect that will fail on a broad scale, but I'm not sure that xenophobia will be particularly tipped by Wimbledon. It'll be a broader "these are bad guys and we only do black or white rhetoric".)
I have sympathy for ordinary Russians who lack the information and the freedom we have. I'm not holding their support for this war against them, they're victims too.
I don't extend that to the elite. Whether that be oligarchs or athletes."
Just to clarify that’s your take on these Russian athletes in this specific situation and not your take regarding ALL elite athletes. As in, Elite athletes are still worthy of our sympathies? Right? |
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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"
And my feelings are how does this help end this situation? If it doesn’t, then I am not sure I agree with athletes (who may be opposed to the actions of their government) not being able to do what they enjoy. But as I said I have zero answers. I’m just a guy with shit opinions
As are we all Steve, as are we all.
I look back over the history of the world and it's littered with everything from minor skirmishes to full on wars.
My grandparents were involved in WW1 and 2. My parents to a lesser extent in WW2. Nothing. Ever. Changes and it's the little people like you and I and my parents, grandparents and the exhausted Ukrainian citizens who pay the biggest price.
I agree. Ukrainians are the victims here. As I said I accept my take is probably a terrible take but I don’t see this act as radical, helpful or anything really other than a gesture that doesn’t actually impact the people that are causing suffering to millions of people. To pretend all ordinary Russians are supportive or are to blame is not exactly the best outlook imo and I think it opens the doors for xenophobia. In my opinion. And again I just don’t see how that makes the situation any better or closer to resolution?
The West are not going to start a physical war with Russia, but toppling Putin is probably at the top of the must do list.
Creating pressure from within, no matter how trivial to many, will to some be very important.
Russian tennis players not being able to compete, will be known by fans of tennis in Russia. They might question this, look a little further than the propaganda that is being pumped in today. It might change opinion, and enough opinions changed creates opportunities for change itself.
I hear this. But again doesn’t this undermine or maybe downplay the resistance to war already going on in Russia? Also how dangerous it is for those resisting and opposing government? And doesn’t it place huge emphasis on the possibility that all Russian tennis fans go down the path of rejecting govt propaganda rather than embracing it on a (us against them) level? "
Will a ban have a desirable outcome, is going to be hard to measure.
The power of the people is stronger than the power of the government, influence those views and maybe change can come from within.
I think this approach offers a lasting change for good, as it is driven by the population and not an invading force.
|
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"I think it'll be economic sanctions that play a bigger role, but I don't see that a pile of gestures as well can hurt.
Do you think this in no way leads to xenophobia?
I think that's up to us as individuals, to not be sucked into it (and yes, I suspect that will fail on a broad scale, but I'm not sure that xenophobia will be particularly tipped by Wimbledon. It'll be a broader "these are bad guys and we only do black or white rhetoric".)
I have sympathy for ordinary Russians who lack the information and the freedom we have. I'm not holding their support for this war against them, they're victims too.
I don't extend that to the elite. Whether that be oligarchs or athletes.
Just to clarify that’s your take on these Russian athletes in this specific situation and not your take regarding ALL elite athletes. As in, Elite athletes are still worthy of our sympathies? Right?"
Yes, if I had to boil it down.
Right now what I'm saying is along the lines of, international sports competitions can be a symbol of cooperation between nations, and Russia has lost its privileges right now, for damn good reason.
And that Russian elite athletes are privileged enough that they don't particularly muster much sympathy from me. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
And my feelings are how does this help end this situation? If it doesn’t, then I am not sure I agree with athletes (who may be opposed to the actions of their government) not being able to do what they enjoy. But as I said I have zero answers. I’m just a guy with shit opinions
As are we all Steve, as are we all.
I look back over the history of the world and it's littered with everything from minor skirmishes to full on wars.
My grandparents were involved in WW1 and 2. My parents to a lesser extent in WW2. Nothing. Ever. Changes and it's the little people like you and I and my parents, grandparents and the exhausted Ukrainian citizens who pay the biggest price.
I agree. Ukrainians are the victims here. As I said I accept my take is probably a terrible take but I don’t see this act as radical, helpful or anything really other than a gesture that doesn’t actually impact the people that are causing suffering to millions of people. To pretend all ordinary Russians are supportive or are to blame is not exactly the best outlook imo and I think it opens the doors for xenophobia. In my opinion. And again I just don’t see how that makes the situation any better or closer to resolution?
The West are not going to start a physical war with Russia, but toppling Putin is probably at the top of the must do list.
Creating pressure from within, no matter how trivial to many, will to some be very important.
Russian tennis players not being able to compete, will be known by fans of tennis in Russia. They might question this, look a little further than the propaganda that is being pumped in today. It might change opinion, and enough opinions changed creates opportunities for change itself.
I hear this. But again doesn’t this undermine or maybe downplay the resistance to war already going on in Russia? Also how dangerous it is for those resisting and opposing government? And doesn’t it place huge emphasis on the possibility that all Russian tennis fans go down the path of rejecting govt propaganda rather than embracing it on a (us against them) level?
Will a ban have a desirable outcome, is going to be hard to measure.
The power of the people is stronger than the power of the government, influence those views and maybe change can come from within.
I think this approach offers a lasting change for good, as it is driven by the population and not an invading force.
"
Doubtful of the possible positive impact this can have. And whether it will be greater or the same as the xenophobic attitudes it might create toward Russian people who live across the world. But equally, I’m not going to die on this hill. My opinion literally has no worth- Wimbledon have made their decision. And I hope it’s for a greater good. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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The average age of a professional tennis player is 24. They start very young (pre teens), they know next to nothing about world events or politics. And it's the same in all sports. So why 'punish' them for the madness of certain 'governments/people'? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think it'll be economic sanctions that play a bigger role, but I don't see that a pile of gestures as well can hurt.
Do you think this in no way leads to xenophobia?
I think that's up to us as individuals, to not be sucked into it (and yes, I suspect that will fail on a broad scale, but I'm not sure that xenophobia will be particularly tipped by Wimbledon. It'll be a broader "these are bad guys and we only do black or white rhetoric".)
I have sympathy for ordinary Russians who lack the information and the freedom we have. I'm not holding their support for this war against them, they're victims too.
I don't extend that to the elite. Whether that be oligarchs or athletes.
Just to clarify that’s your take on these Russian athletes in this specific situation and not your take regarding ALL elite athletes. As in, Elite athletes are still worthy of our sympathies? Right?
Yes, if I had to boil it down.
Right now what I'm saying is along the lines of, international sports competitions can be a symbol of cooperation between nations, and Russia has lost its privileges right now, for damn good reason.
And that Russian elite athletes are privileged enough that they don't particularly muster much sympathy from me."
Ok cool. I mean I’m not here supporting the Russian government just an individual’s right to partake in competition without being held accountable for the actions or beliefs of their government. Especially when their government is oppressive. But as I said before, I don’t even believe in nations or nationality really so |
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"I think it'll be economic sanctions that play a bigger role, but I don't see that a pile of gestures as well can hurt.
Do you think this in no way leads to xenophobia?
I think that's up to us as individuals, to not be sucked into it (and yes, I suspect that will fail on a broad scale, but I'm not sure that xenophobia will be particularly tipped by Wimbledon. It'll be a broader "these are bad guys and we only do black or white rhetoric".)
I have sympathy for ordinary Russians who lack the information and the freedom we have. I'm not holding their support for this war against them, they're victims too.
I don't extend that to the elite. Whether that be oligarchs or athletes.
Just to clarify that’s your take on these Russian athletes in this specific situation and not your take regarding ALL elite athletes. As in, Elite athletes are still worthy of our sympathies? Right?
Yes, if I had to boil it down.
Right now what I'm saying is along the lines of, international sports competitions can be a symbol of cooperation between nations, and Russia has lost its privileges right now, for damn good reason.
And that Russian elite athletes are privileged enough that they don't particularly muster much sympathy from me.
Ok cool. I mean I’m not here supporting the Russian government just an individual’s right to partake in competition without being held accountable for the actions or beliefs of their government. Especially when their government is oppressive. But as I said before, I don’t even believe in nations or nationality really so "
I think it's a fiction, ultimately. But I think it's a fiction that is usefully exploited in the cause of trying to end atrocities. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I think it'll be economic sanctions that play a bigger role, but I don't see that a pile of gestures as well can hurt.
Do you think this in no way leads to xenophobia?
I think that's up to us as individuals, to not be sucked into it (and yes, I suspect that will fail on a broad scale, but I'm not sure that xenophobia will be particularly tipped by Wimbledon. It'll be a broader "these are bad guys and we only do black or white rhetoric".)
I have sympathy for ordinary Russians who lack the information and the freedom we have. I'm not holding their support for this war against them, they're victims too.
I don't extend that to the elite. Whether that be oligarchs or athletes.
Just to clarify that’s your take on these Russian athletes in this specific situation and not your take regarding ALL elite athletes. As in, Elite athletes are still worthy of our sympathies? Right?
Yes, if I had to boil it down.
Right now what I'm saying is along the lines of, international sports competitions can be a symbol of cooperation between nations, and Russia has lost its privileges right now, for damn good reason.
And that Russian elite athletes are privileged enough that they don't particularly muster much sympathy from me.
Ok cool. I mean I’m not here supporting the Russian government just an individual’s right to partake in competition without being held accountable for the actions or beliefs of their government. Especially when their government is oppressive. But as I said before, I don’t even believe in nations or nationality really so
I think it's a fiction, ultimately. But I think it's a fiction that is usefully exploited in the cause of trying to end atrocities."
Too bad not all atrocities. |
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"I think it'll be economic sanctions that play a bigger role, but I don't see that a pile of gestures as well can hurt.
Do you think this in no way leads to xenophobia?
I think that's up to us as individuals, to not be sucked into it (and yes, I suspect that will fail on a broad scale, but I'm not sure that xenophobia will be particularly tipped by Wimbledon. It'll be a broader "these are bad guys and we only do black or white rhetoric".)
I have sympathy for ordinary Russians who lack the information and the freedom we have. I'm not holding their support for this war against them, they're victims too.
I don't extend that to the elite. Whether that be oligarchs or athletes.
Just to clarify that’s your take on these Russian athletes in this specific situation and not your take regarding ALL elite athletes. As in, Elite athletes are still worthy of our sympathies? Right?
Yes, if I had to boil it down.
Right now what I'm saying is along the lines of, international sports competitions can be a symbol of cooperation between nations, and Russia has lost its privileges right now, for damn good reason.
And that Russian elite athletes are privileged enough that they don't particularly muster much sympathy from me.
Ok cool. I mean I’m not here supporting the Russian government just an individual’s right to partake in competition without being held accountable for the actions or beliefs of their government. Especially when their government is oppressive. But as I said before, I don’t even believe in nations or nationality really so
I think it's a fiction, ultimately. But I think it's a fiction that is usefully exploited in the cause of trying to end atrocities.
Too bad not all atrocities. "
Oh absolutely agreed.
Maybe if Australia had been kicked out of international sports for "offshore processing" in Nauru and PNG, that disgusting regime wouldn't have lasted 20 years.
Yup, I'll take it on my own country. My own country that's fucking obsessed with sports prowess. |
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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"
And my feelings are how does this help end this situation? If it doesn’t, then I am not sure I agree with athletes (who may be opposed to the actions of their government) not being able to do what they enjoy. But as I said I have zero answers. I’m just a guy with shit opinions
As are we all Steve, as are we all.
I look back over the history of the world and it's littered with everything from minor skirmishes to full on wars.
My grandparents were involved in WW1 and 2. My parents to a lesser extent in WW2. Nothing. Ever. Changes and it's the little people like you and I and my parents, grandparents and the exhausted Ukrainian citizens who pay the biggest price.
I agree. Ukrainians are the victims here. As I said I accept my take is probably a terrible take but I don’t see this act as radical, helpful or anything really other than a gesture that doesn’t actually impact the people that are causing suffering to millions of people. To pretend all ordinary Russians are supportive or are to blame is not exactly the best outlook imo and I think it opens the doors for xenophobia. In my opinion. And again I just don’t see how that makes the situation any better or closer to resolution?
The West are not going to start a physical war with Russia, but toppling Putin is probably at the top of the must do list.
Creating pressure from within, no matter how trivial to many, will to some be very important.
Russian tennis players not being able to compete, will be known by fans of tennis in Russia. They might question this, look a little further than the propaganda that is being pumped in today. It might change opinion, and enough opinions changed creates opportunities for change itself.
I hear this. But again doesn’t this undermine or maybe downplay the resistance to war already going on in Russia? Also how dangerous it is for those resisting and opposing government? And doesn’t it place huge emphasis on the possibility that all Russian tennis fans go down the path of rejecting govt propaganda rather than embracing it on a (us against them) level?
Will a ban have a desirable outcome, is going to be hard to measure.
The power of the people is stronger than the power of the government, influence those views and maybe change can come from within.
I think this approach offers a lasting change for good, as it is driven by the population and not an invading force.
Doubtful of the possible positive impact this can have. And whether it will be greater or the same as the xenophobic attitudes it might create toward Russian people who live across the world. But equally, I’m not going to die on this hill. My opinion literally has no worth- Wimbledon have made their decision. And I hope it’s for a greater good. "
Your opinion has worth, questioning from a different perspective throws a light into the shadows.
I would say in this situation, the ban on Russian tennis players at Wimbledon. The decision would not have been made lightly, and I would expect our government to have had awareness, and possibly influence.
Addressing your xenophobia point, I would argue that Putin's actions of invading Ukraine are far more damaging in that area than a ban on sports participation. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The Russian Ballet were due to come to Edinburgh for this years Arts Festival - they’ve been banned all for the sake of ONE Russian
I do understand why, but FGS! |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I feel sorry for the athletes who have done nothing wrong and have to suffer the consequences of their governments decision to go to war just hope  "
That's exactly my point! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Addressing your xenophobia point, I would argue that Putin's actions of invading Ukraine are far more damaging in that area than a ban on sports participation. "
No - You’re right. I agree.
Still don’t like the idea that Russians not influencing Russian government policy face consequences *like these specific ones * but it is what it is. It’s happening now lol |
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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"Addressing your xenophobia point, I would argue that Putin's actions of invading Ukraine are far more damaging in that area than a ban on sports participation.
No - You’re right. I agree.
Still don’t like the idea that Russians not influencing Russian government policy face consequences *like these specific ones * but it is what it is. It’s happening now lol"
Those Russians who are not influencing policy, could influence it in the end. Number 1 tennis player in the world is Russian, if he can't play he will be annoyed at the policy, can he influence his fans? A poster above said the Russian ballet is banned in Edinburgh, they too can influence from within.
And not a bullet fired |
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Ukrainian children are losing their lives. A Russian tennis player will (potentially) lose the opportunity to play at Wimbledon.
The children have lost their future.
The tennis player still has a future to play elsewhere.
I think I know where my moral compass is heading towards... |
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"Addressing your xenophobia point, I would argue that Putin's actions of invading Ukraine are far more damaging in that area than a ban on sports participation.
No - You’re right. I agree.
Still don’t like the idea that Russians not influencing Russian government policy face consequences *like these specific ones * but it is what it is. It’s happening now lol
Those Russians who are not influencing policy, could influence it in the end. Number 1 tennis player in the world is Russian, if he can't play he will be annoyed at the policy, can he influence his fans? A poster above said the Russian ballet is banned in Edinburgh, they too can influence from within.
And not a bullet fired "
What's ended offshore processing in Australia?
Changing public opinion, public outcry.
(Of course, Australia is a democracy, etc, but) |
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"Ukrainian children are losing their lives. A Russian tennis player will (potentially) lose the opportunity to play at Wimbledon.
The children have lost their future.
The tennis player still has a future to play elsewhere.
I think I know where my moral compass is heading towards..."
Quite. |
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"The average age of a professional tennis player is 24. They start very young (pre teens), they know next to nothing about world events or politics. And it's the same in all sports. So why 'punish' them for the madness of certain 'governments/people'? "
Did you actually see the gymnast that wrote the letter Z on his top when he came 3rd and the the ukrainian that won had to stand beside him?
What about the 15 yo karting champion that done a Hitler salute when standing on the podium?
No they don't all support what's going on but it's best to keep them all out to save moments like this happening and the point in sanctions is to do all can to make them back down. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Ukrainian children are losing their lives. A Russian tennis player will (potentially) lose the opportunity to play at Wimbledon.
The children have lost their future.
The tennis player still has a future to play elsewhere.
I think I know where my moral compass is heading towards...
Quite."
Yes you do have a point there. I'll give this argument. For now. |
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"The average age of a professional tennis player is 24. They start very young (pre teens), they know next to nothing about world events or politics. And it's the same in all sports. So why 'punish' them for the madness of certain 'governments/people'?
Did you actually see the gymnast that wrote the letter Z on his top when he came 3rd and the the ukrainian that won had to stand beside him?
What about the 15 yo karting champion that done a Hitler salute when standing on the podium?
No they don't all support what's going on but it's best to keep them all out to save moments like this happening and the point in sanctions is to do all can to make them back down. "
Yeah, fuck giving them opportunities to promote the atrocities of their nation. |
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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"Addressing your xenophobia point, I would argue that Putin's actions of invading Ukraine are far more damaging in that area than a ban on sports participation.
No - You’re right. I agree.
Still don’t like the idea that Russians not influencing Russian government policy face consequences *like these specific ones * but it is what it is. It’s happening now lol
Those Russians who are not influencing policy, could influence it in the end. Number 1 tennis player in the world is Russian, if he can't play he will be annoyed at the policy, can he influence his fans? A poster above said the Russian ballet is banned in Edinburgh, they too can influence from within.
And not a bullet fired
What's ended offshore processing in Australia?
Changing public opinion, public outcry.
(Of course, Australia is a democracy, etc, but)"
|
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Why aren't we banning Saudis? They're bombing Yemen. UAE? Same. What about North Korean athletes at the Olympics? It does seem somewhat bizarre that if we're banning Russian and Belarusian athletes because of the crimes of their Government, that we're not also banning other warring and genocidal nations.
I wonder how many ordinary Russian and Belarusian people are known to many posters on here? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"The average age of a professional tennis player is 24. They start very young (pre teens), they know next to nothing about world events or politics. And it's the same in all sports. So why 'punish' them for the madness of certain 'governments/people'?
Did you actually see the gymnast that wrote the letter Z on his top when he came 3rd and the the ukrainian that won had to stand beside him?
What about the 15 yo karting champion that done a Hitler salute when standing on the podium?
No they don't all support what's going on but it's best to keep them all out to save moments like this happening and the point in sanctions is to do all can to make them back down.
Yeah, fuck giving them opportunities to promote the atrocities of their nation."
Yes I am aware of these incidents. But is it right to generalise this and punish everyone? It's like punishing all Germans during WW2 because of the nazis. Not all German people were brain washed by Hitler.
FIELD Marshall Rommell refused to commit any war crime during WW2. |
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"Why aren't we banning Saudis? They're bombing Yemen. UAE? Same. What about North Korean athletes at the Olympics? It does seem somewhat bizarre that if we're banning Russian and Belarusian athletes because of the crimes of their Government, that we're not also banning other warring and genocidal nations.
I wonder how many ordinary Russian and Belarusian people are known to many posters on here?"
I'd ban all of them. I'd have banned Australia from international competition from 2002. (And I've personally agreed when accosted in the street about Australia's horrific policies)
But there isn't the international will for that. I don't know why.
I have no ill will towards individual Russians or Belarusians. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Why aren't we banning Saudis? They're bombing Yemen. UAE? Same. What about North Korean athletes at the Olympics? It does seem somewhat bizarre that if we're banning Russian and Belarusian athletes because of the crimes of their Government, that we're not also banning other warring and genocidal nations.
I wonder how many ordinary Russian and Belarusian people are known to many posters on here?"
One thing I will say is the fact that we don’t do enough for others doesn’t make this less important (though I disagree with it) if it’s what they want to do. But I do agree, why not all atrocities? And also why then does it seem that some victims seemingly matter more than others? Well if the earlier reporting on this crisis is anything to go by we know the answer. |
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"The average age of a professional tennis player is 24. They start very young (pre teens), they know next to nothing about world events or politics. And it's the same in all sports. So why 'punish' them for the madness of certain 'governments/people'?
Did you actually see the gymnast that wrote the letter Z on his top when he came 3rd and the the ukrainian that won had to stand beside him?
What about the 15 yo karting champion that done a Hitler salute when standing on the podium?
No they don't all support what's going on but it's best to keep them all out to save moments like this happening and the point in sanctions is to do all can to make them back down.
Yeah, fuck giving them opportunities to promote the atrocities of their nation.
Yes I am aware of these incidents. But is it right to generalise this and punish everyone? It's like punishing all Germans during WW2 because of the nazis. Not all German people were brain washed by Hitler.
FIELD Marshall Rommell refused to commit any war crime during WW2. "
I think we need to use all the tools at our disposal to end atrocities. I do not consider the splash damage of Wimbledon all that consequential.
Not just in Ukraine. |
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"Why aren't we banning Saudis? They're bombing Yemen. UAE? Same. What about North Korean athletes at the Olympics? It does seem somewhat bizarre that if we're banning Russian and Belarusian athletes because of the crimes of their Government, that we're not also banning other warring and genocidal nations.
I wonder how many ordinary Russian and Belarusian people are known to many posters on here?
One thing I will say is the fact that we don’t do enough for others doesn’t make this less important (though I disagree with it) if it’s what they want to do. But I do agree, why not all atrocities? And also why then does it seem that some victims seemingly matter more than others? Well if the earlier reporting on this crisis is anything to go by we know the answer. "
Yeah. I do know the answer. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Why aren't we banning Saudis? They're bombing Yemen. UAE? Same. What about North Korean athletes at the Olympics? It does seem somewhat bizarre that if we're banning Russian and Belarusian athletes because of the crimes of their Government, that we're not also banning other warring and genocidal nations.
I wonder how many ordinary Russian and Belarusian people are known to many posters on here?
I'd ban all of them. I'd have banned Australia from international competition from 2002. (And I've personally agreed when accosted in the street about Australia's horrific policies)
But there isn't the international will for that. I don't know why.
I have no ill will towards individual Russians or Belarusians."
I'm not being funny, but it sounds like if it was up to you, EVERYONE would be banned from everything. |
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"The average age of a professional tennis player is 24. They start very young (pre teens), they know next to nothing about world events or politics. And it's the same in all sports. So why 'punish' them for the madness of certain 'governments/people'?
Did you actually see the gymnast that wrote the letter Z on his top when he came 3rd and the the ukrainian that won had to stand beside him?
What about the 15 yo karting champion that done a Hitler salute when standing on the podium?
No they don't all support what's going on but it's best to keep them all out to save moments like this happening and the point in sanctions is to do all can to make them back down.
Yeah, fuck giving them opportunities to promote the atrocities of their nation.
Yes I am aware of these incidents. But is it right to generalise this and punish everyone? It's like punishing all Germans during WW2 because of the nazis. Not all German people were brain washed by Hitler.
FIELD Marshall Rommell refused to commit any war crime during WW2. "
Didnt stop men he was responsible for for committing them though did he? |
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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"Why aren't we banning Saudis? They're bombing Yemen. UAE? Same. What about North Korean athletes at the Olympics? It does seem somewhat bizarre that if we're banning Russian and Belarusian athletes because of the crimes of their Government, that we're not also banning other warring and genocidal nations.
I wonder how many ordinary Russian and Belarusian people are known to many posters on here?"
I read this type of argument a lot, and my conclusion is that everything can't be resolved at the same time by the same methods.
Does it help to suggest why aren't we doing this to x y z? Or does it detract from the issue right under the nose, the war that started 60 days ago?
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Why aren't we banning Saudis? They're bombing Yemen. UAE? Same. What about North Korean athletes at the Olympics? It does seem somewhat bizarre that if we're banning Russian and Belarusian athletes because of the crimes of their Government, that we're not also banning other warring and genocidal nations.
I wonder how many ordinary Russian and Belarusian people are known to many posters on here?
I'd ban all of them. I'd have banned Australia from international competition from 2002. (And I've personally agreed when accosted in the street about Australia's horrific policies)
But there isn't the international will for that. I don't know why.
I have no ill will towards individual Russians or Belarusians.
I'm not being funny, but it sounds like if it was up to you, EVERYONE would be banned from everything. "
But you do have some good points though. |
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"Why aren't we banning Saudis? They're bombing Yemen. UAE? Same. What about North Korean athletes at the Olympics? It does seem somewhat bizarre that if we're banning Russian and Belarusian athletes because of the crimes of their Government, that we're not also banning other warring and genocidal nations.
I wonder how many ordinary Russian and Belarusian people are known to many posters on here?
I'd ban all of them. I'd have banned Australia from international competition from 2002. (And I've personally agreed when accosted in the street about Australia's horrific policies)
But there isn't the international will for that. I don't know why.
I have no ill will towards individual Russians or Belarusians.
I'm not being funny, but it sounds like if it was up to you, EVERYONE would be banned from everything. "
Yup. Shitty humans don't get nice things.
I pick Australia because I'm Australian.
If Australia had been banned from international competition because of its atrocities against refugees, the uproar probably would have included razing Parliament House to the motherfucking ground.
And so it fucking should have done because Australia's record probably amounts to crimes against humanity. |
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"So I just read on the news that Wimbledon has banned Russian and
Belarusian players this year. I don't know but personally I think there are some things in life that should be kept out of politics and vice versa. Not withstanding what's happening currently.
This is nothing to do with politicians or politics and everything to do with doing the right thing as human beings. It’s a shame for Russian athletes, but in my view, if they’re representing their country, they’re not welcome.
If this was the uk slaughtering innocent civilians, I’d not want to represent my own country either, in protest.
"
How much protesting did you do about the illegal war in Iraq? Is bombing civilians OK when its the RAF and they say sorry for it?
How much pride do you feel for bomber command helping us to win WW2? What we did to German cities far far outstrips what Russia is doing in Ukraine. Leaving aside the moral arguments of fighting Nazi Germany as opposed to invading a neighboring country, why is it OK to feel pride in our lads (who flew the planes, dropped the bombs, piloted the drones) but denigrate a random tennis player because of the actions of the dictator in control of his/her country?
Just like you Mr Pickle, I find it distasteful and the whole Russian = bad, Ukranian = good naive and childlike. Its exactly the mindset that allows wars to happen. If politicians weren't able to convince huge chunks of their population that a group of people deserve sanctions/ostracism/denigaration/bombing because of where they were born then we wouldn't have wars. Then again, as has been said above, we have a war already, what is the best way to stop it? I've no idea what the answer is - maybe demonising sports people is a good solution, certainly there's been some plausible ideas of propaganda around doing so suggested above. Equally, we allow Putin to convince his people that they really do need to fight to survive, the whole world is against them - a national level inferiority complex surely can't hurt anyone?
Maybe Russian state TV showing a Russian being cheered to victory at Wimbledon would make people question the narrative that the West is out to destroy Russia, that we are a threat not friends?
Mr |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Why aren't we banning Saudis? They're bombing Yemen. UAE? Same. What about North Korean athletes at the Olympics? It does seem somewhat bizarre that if we're banning Russian and Belarusian athletes because of the crimes of their Government, that we're not also banning other warring and genocidal nations.
I wonder how many ordinary Russian and Belarusian people are known to many posters on here?
I read this type of argument a lot, and my conclusion is that everything can't be resolved at the same time by the same methods.
Does it help to suggest why aren't we doing this to x y z? Or does it detract from the issue right under the nose, the war that started 60 days ago?
"
Though not your intention this is very ‘wait your turn’. And if anything posts like this remind us that we need to do more for others or should’ve done more, if we’re so willing to do so much now. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So I just read on the news that Wimbledon has banned Russian and
Belarusian players this year. I don't know but personally I think there are some things in life that should be kept out of politics and vice versa. Not withstanding what's happening currently.
This is nothing to do with politicians or politics and everything to do with doing the right thing as human beings. It’s a shame for Russian athletes, but in my view, if they’re representing their country, they’re not welcome.
If this was the uk slaughtering innocent civilians, I’d not want to represent my own country either, in protest.
How much protesting did you do about the illegal war in Iraq? Is bombing civilians OK when its the RAF and they say sorry for it?
How much pride do you feel for bomber command helping us to win WW2? What we did to German cities far far outstrips what Russia is doing in Ukraine. Leaving aside the moral arguments of fighting Nazi Germany as opposed to invading a neighboring country, why is it OK to feel pride in our lads (who flew the planes, dropped the bombs, piloted the drones) but denigrate a random tennis player because of the actions of the dictator in control of his/her country?
Just like you Mr Pickle, I find it distasteful and the whole Russian = bad, Ukranian = good naive and childlike. Its exactly the mindset that allows wars to happen. If politicians weren't able to convince huge chunks of their population that a group of people deserve sanctions/ostracism/denigaration/bombing because of where they were born then we wouldn't have wars. Then again, as has been said above, we have a war already, what is the best way to stop it? I've no idea what the answer is - maybe demonising sports people is a good solution, certainly there's been some plausible ideas of propaganda around doing so suggested above. Equally, we allow Putin to convince his people that they really do need to fight to survive, the whole world is against them - a national level inferiority complex surely can't hurt anyone?
Maybe Russian state TV showing a Russian being cheered to victory at Wimbledon would make people question the narrative that the West is out to destroy Russia, that we are a threat not friends?
Mr"
All of this. |
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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"Why aren't we banning Saudis? They're bombing Yemen. UAE? Same. What about North Korean athletes at the Olympics? It does seem somewhat bizarre that if we're banning Russian and Belarusian athletes because of the crimes of their Government, that we're not also banning other warring and genocidal nations.
I wonder how many ordinary Russian and Belarusian people are known to many posters on here?
I read this type of argument a lot, and my conclusion is that everything can't be resolved at the same time by the same methods.
Does it help to suggest why aren't we doing this to x y z? Or does it detract from the issue right under the nose, the war that started 60 days ago?
Though not your intention this is very ‘wait your turn’. And if anything posts like this remind us that we need to do more for others or should’ve done more, if we’re so willing to do so much now. "
Not wait your turn, deal with things in the right way, a one size does not fit all.
Throwing all those other issues into the ring, dilutes them and that shouldn't happen |
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"Why aren't we banning Saudis? They're bombing Yemen. UAE? Same. What about North Korean athletes at the Olympics? It does seem somewhat bizarre that if we're banning Russian and Belarusian athletes because of the crimes of their Government, that we're not also banning other warring and genocidal nations.
I wonder how many ordinary Russian and Belarusian people are known to many posters on here?
I read this type of argument a lot, and my conclusion is that everything can't be resolved at the same time by the same methods.
Does it help to suggest why aren't we doing this to x y z? Or does it detract from the issue right under the nose, the war that started 60 days ago?
Though not your intention this is very ‘wait your turn’. And if anything posts like this remind us that we need to do more for others or should’ve done more, if we’re so willing to do so much now. "
We should have done more.
We should do more.
To me this shows - I'm a little too young to remember the response to Apartheid - that such a response by the powerful is *possible*. I've been chipping away at stuff for about 25 years, at the individual level.
Is there shittiness here? Sure.
But it's a high level response. Which does a fuckton more than my quarter of a century of beating my head against a wall. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Why aren't we banning Saudis? They're bombing Yemen. UAE? Same. What about North Korean athletes at the Olympics? It does seem somewhat bizarre that if we're banning Russian and Belarusian athletes because of the crimes of their Government, that we're not also banning other warring and genocidal nations.
I wonder how many ordinary Russian and Belarusian people are known to many posters on here?
I read this type of argument a lot, and my conclusion is that everything can't be resolved at the same time by the same methods.
Does it help to suggest why aren't we doing this to x y z? Or does it detract from the issue right under the nose, the war that started 60 days ago?
Though not your intention this is very ‘wait your turn’. And if anything posts like this remind us that we need to do more for others or should’ve done more, if we’re so willing to do so much now.
We should have done more.
We should do more.
To me this shows - I'm a little too young to remember the response to Apartheid - that such a response by the powerful is *possible*. I've been chipping away at stuff for about 25 years, at the individual level.
Is there shittiness here? Sure.
But it's a high level response. Which does a fuckton more than my quarter of a century of beating my head against a wall."
I remember when Nelson Mandela was released from prison. I had not long left school. Some people were dancing and happy, and others in different to the changing events. It took the pressure of the world for South Africa to see the wrongs of their way. However 30 years on and the people (black and white) of South Africa still hate each other. 30 years on it hasn't really changed much. I mean the people. |
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"The average age of a professional tennis player is 24. They start very young (pre teens), they know next to nothing about world events or politics. And it's the same in all sports. So why 'punish' them for the madness of certain 'governments/people'?
Did you actually see the gymnast that wrote the letter Z on his top when he came 3rd and the the ukrainian that won had to stand beside him?
What about the 15 yo karting champion that done a Hitler salute when standing on the podium?
No they don't all support what's going on but it's best to keep them all out to save moments like this happening and the point in sanctions is to do all can to make them back down.
Yeah, fuck giving them opportunities to promote the atrocities of their nation.
Yes I am aware of these incidents. But is it right to generalise this and punish everyone? It's like punishing all Germans during WW2 because of the nazis. Not all German people were brain washed by Hitler.
FIELD Marshall Rommell refused to commit any war crime during WW2. "
Unfortunately most Russian people have been because of state media and the kremlin controlling all TV and that's why they're getting so much support |
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"Why aren't we banning Saudis? They're bombing Yemen. UAE? Same. What about North Korean athletes at the Olympics? It does seem somewhat bizarre that if we're banning Russian and Belarusian athletes because of the crimes of their Government, that we're not also banning other warring and genocidal nations.
I wonder how many ordinary Russian and Belarusian people are known to many posters on here?
I read this type of argument a lot, and my conclusion is that everything can't be resolved at the same time by the same methods.
Does it help to suggest why aren't we doing this to x y z? Or does it detract from the issue right under the nose, the war that started 60 days ago?
Though not your intention this is very ‘wait your turn’. And if anything posts like this remind us that we need to do more for others or should’ve done more, if we’re so willing to do so much now.
We should have done more.
We should do more.
To me this shows - I'm a little too young to remember the response to Apartheid - that such a response by the powerful is *possible*. I've been chipping away at stuff for about 25 years, at the individual level.
Is there shittiness here? Sure.
But it's a high level response. Which does a fuckton more than my quarter of a century of beating my head against a wall.
I remember when Nelson Mandela was released from prison. I had not long left school. Some people were dancing and happy, and others in different to the changing events. It took the pressure of the world for South Africa to see the wrongs of their way. However 30 years on and the people (black and white) of South Africa still hate each other. 30 years on it hasn't really changed much. I mean the people. "
I actually think a lot has changed. Intergenerational trauma runs deep, absolutely, but apartheid no longer exists. The rights are enormous.
Black people hold grudges, rightly or wrongly, for the harms perpetrated against them. White people? Oh bless you you no longer get to oppress people. How sad for you. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Why aren't we banning Saudis? They're bombing Yemen. UAE? Same. What about North Korean athletes at the Olympics? It does seem somewhat bizarre that if we're banning Russian and Belarusian athletes because of the crimes of their Government, that we're not also banning other warring and genocidal nations.
I wonder how many ordinary Russian and Belarusian people are known to many posters on here?
I read this type of argument a lot, and my conclusion is that everything can't be resolved at the same time by the same methods.
Does it help to suggest why aren't we doing this to x y z? Or does it detract from the issue right under the nose, the war that started 60 days ago?
Though not your intention this is very ‘wait your turn’. And if anything posts like this remind us that we need to do more for others or should’ve done more, if we’re so willing to do so much now.
We should have done more.
We should do more.
To me this shows - I'm a little too young to remember the response to Apartheid - that such a response by the powerful is *possible*. I've been chipping away at stuff for about 25 years, at the individual level.
Is there shittiness here? Sure.
But it's a high level response. Which does a fuckton more than my quarter of a century of beating my head against a wall.
I remember when Nelson Mandela was released from prison. I had not long left school. Some people were dancing and happy, and others in different to the changing events. It took the pressure of the world for South Africa to see the wrongs of their way. However 30 years on and the people (black and white) of South Africa still hate each other. 30 years on it hasn't really changed much. I mean the people.
I actually think a lot has changed. Intergenerational trauma runs deep, absolutely, but apartheid no longer exists. The rights are enormous.
Black people hold grudges, rightly or wrongly, for the harms perpetrated against them. White people? Oh bless you you no longer get to oppress people. How sad for you."
I was just speaking to a work colleague who is black and from South Africa. And he told me that Black's and whites still get on at all. They put a good front on to make out they get on. But they don't. And a long time friend who's from Australia said the same thing when he was there. The blacks and whites are not racist, it's just the wound of past is too deep. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Why aren't we banning Saudis? They're bombing Yemen. UAE? Same. What about North Korean athletes at the Olympics? It does seem somewhat bizarre that if we're banning Russian and Belarusian athletes because of the crimes of their Government, that we're not also banning other warring and genocidal nations.
I wonder how many ordinary Russian and Belarusian people are known to many posters on here?
I read this type of argument a lot, and my conclusion is that everything can't be resolved at the same time by the same methods.
Does it help to suggest why aren't we doing this to x y z? Or does it detract from the issue right under the nose, the war that started 60 days ago?
Though not your intention this is very ‘wait your turn’. And if anything posts like this remind us that we need to do more for others or should’ve done more, if we’re so willing to do so much now.
We should have done more.
We should do more.
To me this shows - I'm a little too young to remember the response to Apartheid - that such a response by the powerful is *possible*. I've been chipping away at stuff for about 25 years, at the individual level.
Is there shittiness here? Sure.
But it's a high level response. Which does a fuckton more than my quarter of a century of beating my head against a wall.
I remember when Nelson Mandela was released from prison. I had not long left school. Some people were dancing and happy, and others in different to the changing events. It took the pressure of the world for South Africa to see the wrongs of their way. However 30 years on and the people (black and white) of South Africa still hate each other. 30 years on it hasn't really changed much. I mean the people.
I actually think a lot has changed. Intergenerational trauma runs deep, absolutely, but apartheid no longer exists. The rights are enormous.
Black people hold grudges, rightly or wrongly, for the harms perpetrated against them. White people? Oh bless you you no longer get to oppress people. How sad for you.
I was just speaking to a work colleague who is black and from South Africa. And he told me that Black's and whites still get on at all. They put a good front on to make out they get on. But they don't. And a long time friend who's from Australia said the same thing when he was there. The blacks and whites are not racist, it's just the wound of past is too deep. "
The problem with comments like this, is that they're based on opinions not actual data. Community tensions will always exist, but you'd swear by some reports that every town is in anarchy! |
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By *omer47Man
over a year ago
leigh |
The Ukraine has been virtually destroyed by Russia but still put up a fight just because a dictator, (putin),wants to get the old Russia back but he didn't intend it taking so long. So if/when Ukraine falls then what country will he attack next that was part of the old Russia?.I heard Moldova was next. |
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"Why aren't we banning Saudis? They're bombing Yemen. UAE? Same. What about North Korean athletes at the Olympics? It does seem somewhat bizarre that if we're banning Russian and Belarusian athletes because of the crimes of their Government, that we're not also banning other warring and genocidal nations.
I wonder how many ordinary Russian and Belarusian people are known to many posters on here?
I read this type of argument a lot, and my conclusion is that everything can't be resolved at the same time by the same methods.
Does it help to suggest why aren't we doing this to x y z? Or does it detract from the issue right under the nose, the war that started 60 days ago?
Though not your intention this is very ‘wait your turn’. And if anything posts like this remind us that we need to do more for others or should’ve done more, if we’re so willing to do so much now.
We should have done more.
We should do more.
To me this shows - I'm a little too young to remember the response to Apartheid - that such a response by the powerful is *possible*. I've been chipping away at stuff for about 25 years, at the individual level.
Is there shittiness here? Sure.
But it's a high level response. Which does a fuckton more than my quarter of a century of beating my head against a wall.
I remember when Nelson Mandela was released from prison. I had not long left school. Some people were dancing and happy, and others in different to the changing events. It took the pressure of the world for South Africa to see the wrongs of their way. However 30 years on and the people (black and white) of South Africa still hate each other. 30 years on it hasn't really changed much. I mean the people.
I actually think a lot has changed. Intergenerational trauma runs deep, absolutely, but apartheid no longer exists. The rights are enormous.
Black people hold grudges, rightly or wrongly, for the harms perpetrated against them. White people? Oh bless you you no longer get to oppress people. How sad for you.
I was just speaking to a work colleague who is black and from South Africa. And he told me that Black's and whites still get on at all. They put a good front on to make out they get on. But they don't. And a long time friend who's from Australia said the same thing when he was there. The blacks and whites are not racist, it's just the wound of past is too deep. "
Australia is a work in progress. But the progress starts with ending the oppression.
Which - Australia is a work in progress on that one too.
The bigots etc who are mad about it can die mad about it. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Why aren't we banning Saudis? They're bombing Yemen. UAE? Same. What about North Korean athletes at the Olympics? It does seem somewhat bizarre that if we're banning Russian and Belarusian athletes because of the crimes of their Government, that we're not also banning other warring and genocidal nations.
I wonder how many ordinary Russian and Belarusian people are known to many posters on here?
I read this type of argument a lot, and my conclusion is that everything can't be resolved at the same time by the same methods.
Does it help to suggest why aren't we doing this to x y z? Or does it detract from the issue right under the nose, the war that started 60 days ago?
Though not your intention this is very ‘wait your turn’. And if anything posts like this remind us that we need to do more for others or should’ve done more, if we’re so willing to do so much now.
We should have done more.
We should do more.
To me this shows - I'm a little too young to remember the response to Apartheid - that such a response by the powerful is *possible*. I've been chipping away at stuff for about 25 years, at the individual level.
Is there shittiness here? Sure.
But it's a high level response. Which does a fuckton more than my quarter of a century of beating my head against a wall.
I remember when Nelson Mandela was released from prison. I had not long left school. Some people were dancing and happy, and others in different to the changing events. It took the pressure of the world for South Africa to see the wrongs of their way. However 30 years on and the people (black and white) of South Africa still hate each other. 30 years on it hasn't really changed much. I mean the people.
I actually think a lot has changed. Intergenerational trauma runs deep, absolutely, but apartheid no longer exists. The rights are enormous.
Black people hold grudges, rightly or wrongly, for the harms perpetrated against them. White people? Oh bless you you no longer get to oppress people. How sad for you.
I was just speaking to a work colleague who is black and from South Africa. And he told me that Black's and whites still get on at all. They put a good front on to make out they get on. But they don't. And a long time friend who's from Australia said the same thing when he was there. The blacks and whites are not racist, it's just the wound of past is too deep.
Australia is a work in progress. But the progress starts with ending the oppression.
Which - Australia is a work in progress on that one too.
The bigots etc who are mad about it can die mad about it."
I'm not being funny but you really do seem to have serious ANGER management. Life is too short it. |
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"Why aren't we banning Saudis? They're bombing Yemen. UAE? Same. What about North Korean athletes at the Olympics? It does seem somewhat bizarre that if we're banning Russian and Belarusian athletes because of the crimes of their Government, that we're not also banning other warring and genocidal nations.
I wonder how many ordinary Russian and Belarusian people are known to many posters on here?
I read this type of argument a lot, and my conclusion is that everything can't be resolved at the same time by the same methods.
Does it help to suggest why aren't we doing this to x y z? Or does it detract from the issue right under the nose, the war that started 60 days ago?
Though not your intention this is very ‘wait your turn’. And if anything posts like this remind us that we need to do more for others or should’ve done more, if we’re so willing to do so much now.
We should have done more.
We should do more.
To me this shows - I'm a little too young to remember the response to Apartheid - that such a response by the powerful is *possible*. I've been chipping away at stuff for about 25 years, at the individual level.
Is there shittiness here? Sure.
But it's a high level response. Which does a fuckton more than my quarter of a century of beating my head against a wall.
I remember when Nelson Mandela was released from prison. I had not long left school. Some people were dancing and happy, and others in different to the changing events. It took the pressure of the world for South Africa to see the wrongs of their way. However 30 years on and the people (black and white) of South Africa still hate each other. 30 years on it hasn't really changed much. I mean the people.
I actually think a lot has changed. Intergenerational trauma runs deep, absolutely, but apartheid no longer exists. The rights are enormous.
Black people hold grudges, rightly or wrongly, for the harms perpetrated against them. White people? Oh bless you you no longer get to oppress people. How sad for you.
I was just speaking to a work colleague who is black and from South Africa. And he told me that Black's and whites still get on at all. They put a good front on to make out they get on. But they don't. And a long time friend who's from Australia said the same thing when he was there. The blacks and whites are not racist, it's just the wound of past is too deep.
Australia is a work in progress. But the progress starts with ending the oppression.
Which - Australia is a work in progress on that one too.
The bigots etc who are mad about it can die mad about it.
I'm not being funny but you really do seem to have serious ANGER management. Life is too short it. "
Thank you for your assessment of my mental state. I'll be sure to give it the consideration it deserves. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Why aren't we banning Saudis? They're bombing Yemen. UAE? Same. What about North Korean athletes at the Olympics? It does seem somewhat bizarre that if we're banning Russian and Belarusian athletes because of the crimes of their Government, that we're not also banning other warring and genocidal nations.
I wonder how many ordinary Russian and Belarusian people are known to many posters on here?
I read this type of argument a lot, and my conclusion is that everything can't be resolved at the same time by the same methods.
Does it help to suggest why aren't we doing this to x y z? Or does it detract from the issue right under the nose, the war that started 60 days ago?
Though not your intention this is very ‘wait your turn’. And if anything posts like this remind us that we need to do more for others or should’ve done more, if we’re so willing to do so much now.
We should have done more.
We should do more.
To me this shows - I'm a little too young to remember the response to Apartheid - that such a response by the powerful is *possible*. I've been chipping away at stuff for about 25 years, at the individual level.
Is there shittiness here? Sure.
But it's a high level response. Which does a fuckton more than my quarter of a century of beating my head against a wall.
I remember when Nelson Mandela was released from prison. I had not long left school. Some people were dancing and happy, and others in different to the changing events. It took the pressure of the world for South Africa to see the wrongs of their way. However 30 years on and the people (black and white) of South Africa still hate each other. 30 years on it hasn't really changed much. I mean the people.
I actually think a lot has changed. Intergenerational trauma runs deep, absolutely, but apartheid no longer exists. The rights are enormous.
Black people hold grudges, rightly or wrongly, for the harms perpetrated against them. White people? Oh bless you you no longer get to oppress people. How sad for you.
I was just speaking to a work colleague who is black and from South Africa. And he told me that Black's and whites still get on at all. They put a good front on to make out they get on. But they don't. And a long time friend who's from Australia said the same thing when he was there. The blacks and whites are not racist, it's just the wound of past is too deep.
Australia is a work in progress. But the progress starts with ending the oppression.
Which - Australia is a work in progress on that one too.
The bigots etc who are mad about it can die mad about it.
I'm not being funny but you really do seem to have serious ANGER management. Life is too short it.
Thank you for your assessment of my mental state. I'll be sure to give it the consideration it deserves."
Hey my service doesn't come free you know. |
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Seems to be a lot of ranting posts do I've not read everything on this but a couple of things...The point with Russia is to punish Vlad who is a great supporter of Russian sports and sports people so, as far as I'm concerned the ban is just and I don't accept the hiding behind a neutral flag nonsense of the Olympic committee. Btw, weren't all English clubs banned from European competition due to "actions" of the supporters of one club? Take the penalty |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Seems to be a lot of ranting posts do I've not read everything on this but a couple of things...The point with Russia is to punish Vlad who is a great supporter of Russian sports and sports people so, as far as I'm concerned the ban is just and I don't accept the hiding behind a neutral flag nonsense of the Olympic committee. Btw, weren't all English clubs banned from European competition due to "actions" of the supporters of one club? Take the penalty "
Yes I agree you are right.
I just can't stop feeling sorry for all the athletics.
I've seen the hard work a child goes through with their parents. Getting up early and hour's of training. One of my close friends has 3 children. And his eldest daughter is ranked 2nd in the UK in the girls tennis. Which is really good.
Not all people are blind, they can see the wrongs of their government. Take Sadam Hussain or Gaddafi. The west punished these countries for decades. But the people never supported their government. This was shown when Gaddafi was toppled by his own people. The 'Arab up rising'.
|
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"Seems to be a lot of ranting posts do I've not read everything on this but a couple of things...The point with Russia is to punish Vlad who is a great supporter of Russian sports and sports people so, as far as I'm concerned the ban is just and I don't accept the hiding behind a neutral flag nonsense of the Olympic committee. Btw, weren't all English clubs banned from European competition due to "actions" of the supporters of one club? Take the penalty
Yes I agree you are right.
I just can't stop feeling sorry for all the athletics.
I've seen the hard work a child goes through with their parents. Getting up early and hour's of training. One of my close friends has 3 children. And his eldest daughter is ranked 2nd in the UK in the girls tennis. Which is really good.
Not all people are blind, they can see the wrongs of their government. Take Sadam Hussain or Gaddafi. The west punished these countries for decades. But the people never supported their government. This was shown when Gaddafi was toppled by his own people. The 'Arab up rising'.
"
There will always be casualties of war |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"So I just read on the news that Wimbledon has banned Russian and
Belarusian players this year. I don't know but personally I think there are some things in life that should be kept out of politics and vice versa. Not withstanding what's happening currently. "
Is this any different to Russia being kicked out of the World Cup |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"A Russian tennis player wins Wimbledon, the crowd boo him or her. Both players humiliated throughout the match but ultimately win it. You don’t think the Russian state media will use it as propaganda ? The mighty Russian bear wins Wimbledon through adversity ?
You can’t take Politics out of any worldwide activity, just look at South Africa back during Apartheid.
I genuinely don't know the answer - were South African athletes barred from competition during the apartheid years?"
Yes…. Why do you think the likes of zola budd and a million cricketers came to represent here |
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By *hagTonightMan
over a year ago
From the land of haribos. |
"The citizens of Ukraine are being affected daily by Russia's actions. I don't see why the citizens of Russia, including its sportspeople shouldn't be.
War isn't pretty, it's not something that can be carried out fairly. It's a shame that eventually it will be brought to an end by men in suits and uniforms sitting at a table and talking but first a lot of people need to die...I think a few people missing tennis matches is a minor problem"
This . |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Russians have been banned, but one of the women's finalists was born and still lives in Moscow. She is playing for Kasakhstan. So that's OK then?
Shh don't tell anyone there's a work around "
Russian press are still claiming her as one of theirs |
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"Russians have been banned, but one of the women's finalists was born and still lives in Moscow. She is playing for Kasakhstan. So that's OK then?
Shh don't tell anyone there's a work around
Russian press are still claiming her as one of theirs "
Yes only the Russian press make shit up |
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