FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > There’s something about Miriam and podcast

There’s something about Miriam and podcast

By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

So, I only recently found out about this ( I was maybe too young at the time), and I listened to the podcast called Harsh Realities: the story of Miriam Rivera

And I was stunned at finding out about what some producers were allowed to do with reality tv back in 2000s

Show was obviously full of misogyny , and the language chosen on the show was disgusting. Does anyone remember it? What were your reactions back then?

I’ve learnt from the podcast that the guys got like 150K each in compo from the law suit, sad news is that Miriam actually committed suicide (tho a friend said someone made it look like it)

I found it outstanding how they didn’t think this was gonna be a huge shit show, when u put 6 heterosexual young men (back then) and film them fall over an attractive woman (who’s trans) who hasn’t disclosed her status. And then the realisation that they were filmed and the bro gang behaviour. It’s skin crawling to watch when they laugh at the end. And also Miriam being laughed at.

The podcast is super interesting and I totally recommend it, it’s super gripping and you hear some of the people who met Miriam, and I think Tom (the guy who was picked) also had a say in it.

It is so sad that she died in 2019! But the producers certainly played a very dangerous game there for entertainment and a potentially

Social experiment??!!

Does anyone remember it back then? And what were your reactions?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Sounds interesting, will give it a listen.

Was the show basically just to ridicule this person then and see the guys' reaction that Miriam was trans?

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By *inister_SpinsterWoman over a year ago

Manchester(ish).

"So, I only recently found out about this ( I was maybe too young at the time), and I listened to the podcast called Harsh Realities: the story of Miriam Rivera

And I was stunned at finding out about what some producers were allowed to do with reality tv back in 2000s

Show was obviously full of misogyny , and the language chosen on the show was disgusting. Does anyone remember it? What were your reactions back then?

I’ve learnt from the podcast that the guys got like 150K each in compo from the law suit, sad news is that Miriam actually committed suicide (tho a friend said someone made it look like it)

The podcast is super interesting and I totally recommend it, it’s super gripping and you hear some of the people who met Miriam, and I think Tom (the guy who was picked) also had a say in it.

It is so sad that she died in 2019! But the producers certainly played a very dangerous game there for entertainment and a potentially

Social experiment??!!

Does anyone remember it back then? And what were your reactions?

I've just started listening, I'm about 3 episodes in. It seems pretty horrific, however she's portrayed as being complicit and 'fame hungry'.

Surely at the time, someone in the production should have realised nothing good would come of it.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Sounds interesting, will give it a listen.

Was the show basically just to ridicule this person then and see the guys' reaction that Miriam was trans?"

Boils it up to that. It was definitely set up for failure!

And at the time, I guess it was done as a fucked up social experiment.

They only got told in the end….

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"So, I only recently found out about this ( I was maybe too young at the time), and I listened to the podcast called Harsh Realities: the story of Miriam Rivera

And I was stunned at finding out about what some producers were allowed to do with reality tv back in 2000s

Show was obviously full of misogyny , and the language chosen on the show was disgusting. Does anyone remember it? What were your reactions back then?

I’ve learnt from the podcast that the guys got like 150K each in compo from the law suit, sad news is that Miriam actually committed suicide (tho a friend said someone made it look like it)

The podcast is super interesting and I totally recommend it, it’s super gripping and you hear some of the people who met Miriam, and I think Tom (the guy who was picked) also had a say in it.

It is so sad that she died in 2019! But the producers certainly played a very dangerous game there for entertainment and a potentially

Social experiment??!!

Does anyone remember it back then? And what were your reactions?

I've just started listening, I'm about 3 episodes in. It seems pretty horrific, however she's portrayed as being complicit and 'fame hungry'.

Surely at the time, someone in the production should have realised nothing good would come of it. "

I mean yes, but she was only 20-21 at the time. And young people at that age maybe would do anything for money and fake And I bet they probably made her feel like she was gonna be someone.

Also hate that they clearly made her say certain things that no trans woman would ever say. Skin crawling!!!

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"So, I only recently found out about this ( I was maybe too young at the time), and I listened to the podcast called Harsh Realities: the story of Miriam Rivera

And I was stunned at finding out about what some producers were allowed to do with reality tv back in 2000s

Show was obviously full of misogyny , and the language chosen on the show was disgusting. Does anyone remember it? What were your reactions back then?

I’ve learnt from the podcast that the guys got like 150K each in compo from the law suit, sad news is that Miriam actually committed suicide (tho a friend said someone made it look like it)

The podcast is super interesting and I totally recommend it, it’s super gripping and you hear some of the people who met Miriam, and I think Tom (the guy who was picked) also had a say in it.

It is so sad that she died in 2019! But the producers certainly played a very dangerous game there for entertainment and a potentially

Social experiment??!!

Does anyone remember it back then? And what were your reactions?

I've just started listening, I'm about 3 episodes in. It seems pretty horrific, however she's portrayed as being complicit and 'fame hungry'.

Surely at the time, someone in the production should have realised nothing good would come of it.

I mean yes, but she was only 20-21 at the time. And young people at that age maybe would do anything for money and fake And I bet they probably made her feel like she was gonna be someone.

Also hate that they clearly made her say certain things that no trans woman would ever say. Skin crawling!!!

*fame not fake

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By *inister_SpinsterWoman over a year ago

Manchester(ish).

"So, I only recently found out about this ( I was maybe too young at the time), and I listened to the podcast called Harsh Realities: the story of Miriam Rivera

And I was stunned at finding out about what some producers were allowed to do with reality tv back in 2000s

Show was obviously full of misogyny , and the language chosen on the show was disgusting. Does anyone remember it? What were your reactions back then?

I’ve learnt from the podcast that the guys got like 150K each in compo from the law suit, sad news is that Miriam actually committed suicide (tho a friend said someone made it look like it)

The podcast is super interesting and I totally recommend it, it’s super gripping and you hear some of the people who met Miriam, and I think Tom (the guy who was picked) also had a say in it.

It is so sad that she died in 2019! But the producers certainly played a very dangerous game there for entertainment and a potentially

Social experiment??!!

Does anyone remember it back then? And what were your reactions?

I've just started listening, I'm about 3 episodes in. It seems pretty horrific, however she's portrayed as being complicit and 'fame hungry'.

Surely at the time, someone in the production should have realised nothing good would come of it.

I mean yes, but she was only 20-21 at the time. And young people at that age maybe would do anything for money and fake And I bet they probably made her feel like she was gonna be someone.

Also hate that they clearly made her say certain things that no trans woman would ever say. Skin crawling!!!

*fame not fake

Maybe at that age, she should have been looked after better?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I don't remember the tone of the program. Bit Miriam is soenoen I think about when considering various debates. Would she be safe in a male prison etc. Someone in a previous thread suggested that until recently all you could tell who was a women by looking. This showed that the world is more complex.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"So, I only recently found out about this ( I was maybe too young at the time), and I listened to the podcast called Harsh Realities: the story of Miriam Rivera

And I was stunned at finding out about what some producers were allowed to do with reality tv back in 2000s

Show was obviously full of misogyny , and the language chosen on the show was disgusting. Does anyone remember it? What were your reactions back then?

I’ve learnt from the podcast that the guys got like 150K each in compo from the law suit, sad news is that Miriam actually committed suicide (tho a friend said someone made it look like it)

The podcast is super interesting and I totally recommend it, it’s super gripping and you hear some of the people who met Miriam, and I think Tom (the guy who was picked) also had a say in it.

It is so sad that she died in 2019! But the producers certainly played a very dangerous game there for entertainment and a potentially

Social experiment??!!

Does anyone remember it back then? And what were your reactions?

I've just started listening, I'm about 3 episodes in. It seems pretty horrific, however she's portrayed as being complicit and 'fame hungry'.

Surely at the time, someone in the production should have realised nothing good would come of it.

I mean yes, but she was only 20-21 at the time. And young people at that age maybe would do anything for money and fake And I bet they probably made her feel like she was gonna be someone.

Also hate that they clearly made her say certain things that no trans woman would ever say. Skin crawling!!!

*fame not fake

Maybe at that age, she should have been looked after better?"

I don’t think anybody really cared! You will know more as you keep listening to the the podcast.

Let me know what you think once you finish it!

It’s so sad that she ended up losing her life… she was late 30!

Also that must have been well traumatising.

Obviously the boys were played by the show. And it’s well encouraged for trans women’ safety to disclose it before getting intimate with a guy.

But the reality showed the classic toxic masculinity behaviour, I managed to find episode 1 on YouTube (with a commentary) and my god. Literally they couldn’t have selected more “lads lads lads” type of men. And aired it all on tv.

It certainly showed also (at the time but it’s still present now) how perception can change for trans people when they tell.

Especially for people who may not know

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I don't remember the tone of the program. Bit Miriam is soenoen I think about when considering various debates. Would she be safe in a male prison etc. Someone in a previous thread suggested that until recently all you could tell who was a women by looking. This showed that the world is more complex.

Of course she wouldn’t have been safe in a male prison… let’s be real!

How could she be seen as a threat (sexually - as I bet loads were jealous of how much of a head turner she must have been) to women is beyond me.

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By *ookingfun82Man over a year ago

Enniskillen

I remember the program, didn't really watch the show but watched the ending. She was georgeous, an absolute stunner. I remember not really being comfortable and thinking at the time it wasn't really right on the men or her, didn't know if she was doing it fully aware or was being taken advantage of.

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By *emorefridaCouple over a year ago

La la land

I didn't watch or know about the program to be honest. But if you recommend the podcast I know it's worth a listen. Thanks Kylie.

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By *inister_SpinsterWoman over a year ago

Manchester(ish).

"So, I only recently found out about this ( I was maybe too young at the time), and I listened to the podcast called Harsh Realities: the story of Miriam Rivera

And I was stunned at finding out about what some producers were allowed to do with reality tv back in 2000s

Show was obviously full of misogyny , and the language chosen on the show was disgusting. Does anyone remember it? What were your reactions back then?

I’ve learnt from the podcast that the guys got like 150K each in compo from the law suit, sad news is that Miriam actually committed suicide (tho a friend said someone made it look like it)

The podcast is super interesting and I totally recommend it, it’s super gripping and you hear some of the people who met Miriam, and I think Tom (the guy who was picked) also had a say in it.

It is so sad that she died in 2019! But the producers certainly played a very dangerous game there for entertainment and a potentially

Social experiment??!!

Does anyone remember it back then? And what were your reactions?

I've just started listening, I'm about 3 episodes in. It seems pretty horrific, however she's portrayed as being complicit and 'fame hungry'.

Surely at the time, someone in the production should have realised nothing good would come of it.

I mean yes, but she was only 20-21 at the time. And young people at that age maybe would do anything for money and fake And I bet they probably made her feel like she was gonna be someone.

Also hate that they clearly made her say certain things that no trans woman would ever say. Skin crawling!!!

*fame not fake

Maybe at that age, she should have been looked after better?

I don’t think anybody really cared! You will know more as you keep listening to the the podcast.

Let me know what you think once you finish it!

It’s so sad that she ended up losing her life… she was late 30!

Also that must have been well traumatising.

Obviously the boys were played by the show. And it’s well encouraged for trans women’ safety to disclose it before getting intimate with a guy.

It certainly showed also (at the time but it’s still present now) how perception can change for trans people when they tell.

Especially for people who may not know "

It highlights what I hate about popular telly, it's the 'lets find someone with something different about them, expose that difference, and let the public mock them' mentality. Horrid horrid horrid.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I remember the program, didn't really watch the show but watched the ending. She was georgeous, an absolute stunner. I remember not really being comfortable and thinking at the time it wasn't really right on the men or her, didn't know if she was doing it fully aware or was being taken advantage of."

She was totally gorg!

I think she was being very naive, which happens. And maybe the offer to stardom was appealing too. But on the podcast she apparently seemed very positive and really believed that the guy could go past it because they were really attracted to her!

Maybe in different circumstances, it could have been different, maybe. But certainly not when it was gonna set up for failure and they knew they were being filmed. Like as almost an humiliation to the guys? X

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I didn't watch or know about the program to be honest. But if you recommend the podcast I know it's worth a listen. Thanks Kylie. "

It’s very gripping! Ha

Also on YouTube you may find the clip of the reveal and some other clips.

Makes u you think.. what was happening in the early 2000s?

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By *annaBeStrongMan over a year ago

wokingham

Wait, the show was “let’s trick a bunch of lads into competing for a woman then reveal at the last minute it’s a trans woman”?

That’s kinda messed up

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Of course she wouldn’t have been safe in a male prison… let’s be real!

How could she be seen as a threat (sexually - as I bet loads were jealous of how much of a head turner she must have been) to women is beyond me.

It doesn't always boil down to jealousy. That's far too simplistic an explanation for why women object to trans women in any of their spaces. Heard the "you're jealous we'll steal your men cause we're hotter....". Yawn. And? I've seen hundreds of transwomen who are far more attractive than me and am more than happy to admit this.

As for the question of a transwoman's safety in prison, specifically one who looked like Miriam, high risk male prisoners have been housed safely away from other male prisoners for years. The same could done here.

On episode 1. Already feel sorry for Miriam and the men involved too. Sounds as though everyone was exploited.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Wait, the show was “let’s trick a bunch of lads into competing for a woman then reveal at the last minute it’s a trans woman”?

That’s kinda messed up"

If you wanna put it that way…

I guess the producers wanted the shock factor… and maybe in their defence was to show that, Hetero men can feel attraction to *some* trans women. But the fact that there was no disclosure, was definitely designed to failure. And also to potentially vilify Miriam..

The boys got 150K each afterwards winning the law suit and Tom apparently spent a lot of time in Bali and loads of girls and boys offered him drinks cos they feel sorry for him.

While she never rose to fame and has commited suicide

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Of course she wouldn’t have been safe in a male prison… let’s be real!

How could she be seen as a threat (sexually - as I bet loads were jealous of how much of a head turner she must have been) to women is beyond me.

On episode 1. Already feel sorry for Miriam and the men involved too. Sounds as though everyone was exploited."

No I didn’t say every woman feels like a trans woman would be a threat. I don’t feel that way. I think In her case, she might have experienced jealousy from cis women because she was gorgeous.

But that happens Between women Muff too,

And that’s very common.

Women putting other women down because they deem them a “threat” x

Definitely the show producers exploited EVERYONE! you will know more as the podcast progresses. It gets really bad. And at the end there’s also some parts from one of the producers…but I won’t spoil it

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Of course she wouldn’t have been safe in a male prison… let’s be real!

How could she be seen as a threat (sexually - as I bet loads were jealous of how much of a head turner she must have been) to women is beyond me.

On episode 1. Already feel sorry for Miriam and the men involved too. Sounds as though everyone was exploited."

Also regarding prison. I think it’s very complicated. She may have had male genitalia still but she clearly is heterosexual and into men. Also she’d be the prime candidate to be r4ped and abused in a male prison..

I have my doubts that someone like that, would survive. Or be looked after as “special treatment”

It’s literally sending a lamb to slaughter

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Of course she wouldn’t have been safe in a male prison… let’s be real!

How could she be seen as a threat (sexually - as I bet loads were jealous of how much of a head turner she must have been) to women is beyond me.

On episode 1. Already feel sorry for Miriam and the men involved too. Sounds as though everyone was exploited.

I have my doubts that someone like that, would survive. Or be looked after as “special treatment”

It’s literally sending a lamb to slaughter"

And they therefore require special treatment and the prison system would have a duty of care. Within a male prison.

The same thought and concern never seems to be extended to extremely effeminate gay men in prison. They're lambs to the slaughter too.

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By *uffsandCropsCouple over a year ago

Shrewsbury

I remember it being on but didn't watch it as it seemed a weird thing to do

Even back then, it seemed odd to trick them and then humiliate Miriam.

Your post made me go and watch the first episode and the last. Omg, how did they get away with it??

She was stunning, incredibly beautiful but totally used to give 'entertainment'

It actually made me feel sickened watching

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I remember it being on but didn't watch it as it seemed a weird thing to do

Even back then, it seemed odd to trick them and then humiliate Miriam.

Your post made me go and watch the first episode and the last. Omg, how did they get away with it??

She was stunning, incredibly beautiful but totally used to give 'entertainment'

It actually made me feel sickened watching

It was so cringe and bad. Also, the talks of some of the lads… like

“I’d give a pop at THAT”

“Would I give her one…. Yeh!”

On episode one.

Like, on TV!!!!

Also as said, they really picked a certain type of guy. Scott in particular , apparently got really violent at the end. (He was the runner up and on podcast I heard he really liked Miriam - same as Tom)

Totally fucked up experiment. On a note to say,

That I advocate to disclose status before getting intimate with a partner. Mainly for own safety and to avoid disappointment. Not because other people have the right to know about trans ..

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Also she was on big brother Australia and she was treated a bit as a circus act before going in by the presenter, and in the house, one guy recognised who she was so obviously, told the people that she may be a trans woman. And they took days to work it out with the back and forth.

Freaking weird! It’s also on YouTube

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By *ty31Man over a year ago

NW London

I remember the show being on Sky TV (think it was around 2004).

I read the spoiler in the newspaper- someone showed it to me at work. Even back then I thought it was an exploitative and dirty piece of television, done to provoke a reaction and shock etc.

You have to remember that back then was kind of the end of the lairy laddy culture of the 90's so language and attitude were a little different to today.

Sad to hear about Miriam though, she must have only still been young.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I remember the show being on Sky TV (think it was around 2004).

I read the spoiler in the newspaper- someone showed it to me at work. Even back then I thought it was an exploitative and dirty piece of television, done to provoke a reaction and shock etc.

You have to remember that back then was kind of the end of the lairy laddy culture of the 90's so language and attitude were a little different to today.

Sad to hear about Miriam though, she must have only still been young. "

She was only 38 I think.

And yes you are right , but so odd to see it back and realise it was aired on tv lol x

That laddy culture is probably still ingrained .. it’s just not aired on tv

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

One of the guys was a bsrman in my local. Loved himself, but soon got the piss taken out of him about it, even though he took the cash

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By *ty31Man over a year ago

NW London

"I remember the show being on Sky TV (think it was around 2004).

I read the spoiler in the newspaper- someone showed it to me at work. Even back then I thought it was an exploitative and dirty piece of television, done to provoke a reaction and shock etc.

You have to remember that back then was kind of the end of the lairy laddy culture of the 90's so language and attitude were a little different to today.

Sad to hear about Miriam though, she must have only still been young.

She was only 38 I think.

And yes you are right , but so odd to see it back and realise it was aired on tv lol x

That laddy culture is probably still ingrained .. it’s just not aired on tv "

A little bit, but it's definitely feels like it's softened. It doesn't feel as full on or lairy as in the late 90s or early noughties. I think maybe due to the increase in social media/internet the way we interact and communicate has changed. Plus the LGBTQ+ community is alot more visible, accepted and acknowledged now than it was then.

As for self censorship of opinions etc, people are more conscious now of the lasting impact- stuff posted on social media is easy to drag up years (or decades) later, back then appearing on an obscure reality TV show would be swiftly forgotten (in theory).

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"One of the guys was a bsrman in my local. Loved himself, but soon got the piss taken out of him about it, even though he took the cash "

Which one? X

I find it a bit cruel that they got the piss taken because of it.

And that’s why some people , even tho they might be very attracted to trans women, they can’t face the “my friends are judging me”

Obviously what was done, was immoral. But it shows how some minds and how bro behaviour affects people.

In the last episode, why did they feel the need to bring all the guys back?? Also, couldn’t they have let Mariam tell Tom in private? It was set to humiliate everyone and press the buttons

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I remember the show being on Sky TV (think it was around 2004).

I read the spoiler in the newspaper- someone showed it to me at work. Even back then I thought it was an exploitative and dirty piece of television, done to provoke a reaction and shock etc.

You have to remember that back then was kind of the end of the lairy laddy culture of the 90's so language and attitude were a little different to today.

Sad to hear about Miriam though, she must have only still been young.

She was only 38 I think.

And yes you are right , but so odd to see it back and realise it was aired on tv lol x

That laddy culture is probably still ingrained .. it’s just not aired on tv

Yes I agree x that’s very true! But it doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen in reality, people are just more self aware on tv for sure

Also totally feel sorry for Miriam who had to say “I was born a man”

Maybe she got lost in translation, but baby girl, she transitioned as early as 12 so… she was never a “man”

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By *iltsTSgirlTV/TS over a year ago

chichester

Of course she wouldn’t have been safe in a male prison… let’s be real!

How could she be seen as a threat (sexually - as I bet loads were jealous of how much of a head turner she must have been) to women is beyond me.

On episode 1. Already feel sorry for Miriam and the men involved too. Sounds as though everyone was exploited.

I have my doubts that someone like that, would survive. Or be looked after as “special treatment”

It’s literally sending a lamb to slaughter"

It’s unlikely a trans looking like Miriam would be sent to a male prison or they would be transferred upon request internally . I have two trans friends that are of similar physical appearance level that did a little stint inside for tax / fraud issues . They just went into a womens prison and was kept separate in some privacy aspects , they had No real problems at all other than some verbal abuse at times . Though we are talking like 12 weeks duration .

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By *iltsTSgirlTV/TS over a year ago

chichester

"One of the guys was a bsrman in my local. Loved himself, but soon got the piss taken out of him about it, even though he took the cash

Which one? X

I find it a bit cruel that they got the piss taken because of it.

And that’s why some people , even tho they might be very attracted to trans women, they can’t face the “my friends are judging me”

Obviously what was done, was immoral. But it shows how some minds and how bro behaviour affects people.

In the last episode, why did they feel the need to bring all the guys back?? Also, couldn’t they have let Mariam tell Tom in private? It was set to humiliate everyone and press the buttons "

It was the time of new tv show formats and reality stuff starting off and ramping up for shock n awe figures etc

Today it wouldn’t have made it off the design board in that format

90s/early 00s was wild

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Of course she wouldn’t have been safe in a male prison… let’s be real!

How could she be seen as a threat (sexually - as I bet loads were jealous of how much of a head turner she must have been) to women is beyond me.

On episode 1. Already feel sorry for Miriam and the men involved too. Sounds as though everyone was exploited.

I have my doubts that someone like that, would survive. Or be looked after as “special treatment”

It’s literally sending a lamb to slaughter

I think the problem for some is that they deem women like Miriam potentially dangerous for cis women… cos she still kept her male genitalia

I won’t even comment .

Also yes seems like those years were wild. I was too young then

Did u remember the show? And what did u make of it? X

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I remember the show being on Sky TV (think it was around 2004).

I read the spoiler in the newspaper- someone showed it to me at work. Even back then I thought it was an exploitative and dirty piece of television, done to provoke a reaction and shock etc.

You have to remember that back then was kind of the end of the lairy laddy culture of the 90's so language and attitude were a little different to today.

Sad to hear about Miriam though, she must have only still been young.

She was only 38 I think.

And yes you are right , but so odd to see it back and realise it was aired on tv lol x

***That laddy culture is probably still ingrained .. it’s just not aired on tv "

*** It very much still exists. People are just very slightly more aware of when and where to say such things.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I didn't know she died.

I remember it on tv but I didn't watch it.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I remember the show being on Sky TV (think it was around 2004).

I read the spoiler in the newspaper- someone showed it to me at work. Even back then I thought it was an exploitative and dirty piece of television, done to provoke a reaction and shock etc.

You have to remember that back then was kind of the end of the lairy laddy culture of the 90's so language and attitude were a little different to today.

Sad to hear about Miriam though, she must have only still been young.

She was only 38 I think.

And yes you are right , but so odd to see it back and realise it was aired on tv lol x

***That laddy culture is probably still ingrained .. it’s just not aired on tv

*** It very much still exists. People are just very slightly more aware of when and where to say such things. "

TOTALLY!

Like especially when guys are let lose and d*unk. Look at the stag dos or nights out abroad.

It exists , it just isn’t showed as much on TV. And guys are aware what to say when on camera now.

I HATE the “boys will be boys” saying like . No, thats such a shit justification for shit lads behaviour.

Sorry I’m ranting at 8.52 Am

I need to chill

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Finished listening to it yesterday.

I very sorry for Tom and most of the guys actually (despite the laddish behaviour). They were lied to and humiliated fir the world to see. Cannot condone violence towards anyone, but no one knows how they would react to this kind of public humiliation, as the Scottish fella, the psychologist, outlined.

Feel sorry for Miriam too as I think she was led to believe by so many that the only thing that mattered was her beauty. For some men, her being transgender wouldn't be a big deal, for others it obviously would and the point is the men weren't given the chance to decide for themselves.

That's what stayed with me from the whole thing. The producers banging on about how they thought they were making some kind of ground breaking tv series, "exploring male attitudes towards sex, sexuality"....blah, blah.

If they'd wanted to do that then cards would have been on the table from day 1 with no lies from anyone. And the guys who chose to participate would have been given the opportunity to see Miriam for who she really was and see if feelings developed.

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By *agneto.Man over a year ago

Bham

I do vaguely remember this. She seemed to 'in on it' and happy to do it.

I guess it was sold from the point of view that it would show people can fall for people regardless rather than the gotcha, you kissed a man angle.

It was risky, this was the time when Jerry springer or Maury had a guest who shot a guy another who brought him on the show as a secret crush.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I do vaguely remember this. She seemed to 'in on it' and happy to do it.

I guess it was sold from the point of view that it would show people can fall for people regardless rather than the gotcha, you kissed a man angle.

It was risky, this was the time when Jerry springer or Maury had a guest who shot a guy another who brought him on the show as a secret crush. "

Yeah, forgot Jerry Springer was about at the time. Think they had a transwoman on every second episode for everyone to point and laugh at as well as the poor guy who had been duped. Pretty fucked up.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Finished listening to it yesterday.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I remember the show being on Sky TV (think it was around 2004).

I read the spoiler in the newspaper- someone showed it to me at work. Even back then I thought it was an exploitative and dirty piece of television, done to provoke a reaction and shock etc.

You have to remember that back then was kind of the end of the lairy laddy culture of the 90's so language and attitude were a little different to today.

Sad to hear about Miriam though, she must have only still been young.

She was only 38 I think.

And yes you are right , but so odd to see it back and realise it was aired on tv lol x

***That laddy culture is probably still ingrained .. it’s just not aired on tv

*** It very much still exists. People are just very slightly more aware of when and where to say such things.

TOTALLY!

Like especially when guys are let lose and d*unk. Look at the stag dos or nights out abroad.

It exists , it just isn’t showed as much on TV. And guys are aware what to say when on camera now.

I HATE the “boys will be boys” saying like . No, thats such a shit justification for shit lads behaviour.

Sorry I’m ranting at 8.52 Am

I need to chill

I rant at all hours.

I'm very aware of how often there is same sex kissing on tv these days. It must blow their tiny minds.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Finished listening to it yesterday.

I agree. I feel the producers literally set it up to fail on all fronts!

Especially considering it was gonna be filmed and aired. Of course the boys felt that way. The pressure must have been insane!

I also agree If cards were laid from day 1. Maybe it’d have turned out to be different.

Hopefully it taught that it’s best to tell a guy early on before getting intimate, to avoid heart breaks and also to be safe!

Did u see the clips on YouTube? X

I do feel extremely sad that Miriam took her own life so young. (Or that she got murdered)

I hope she found some happiness while here on earth

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Finished listening to it yesterday.

I agree. I feel the producers literally set it up to fail on all fronts!

Especially considering it was gonna be filmed and aired. Of course the boys felt that way. The pressure must have been insane!

I also agree If cards were laid from day 1. Maybe it’d have turned out to be different.

Hopefully it taught that it’s best to tell a guy early on before getting intimate, to avoid heart breaks and also to be safe!

Did u see the clips on YouTube? X

I do feel extremely sad that Miriam took her own life so young. (Or that she got murdered)

I hope she found some happiness while here on earth "

No, didn't watch any of the YouTube clips. Maybe give a watch later. Is incredibly sad all round.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I do vaguely remember this. She seemed to 'in on it' and happy to do it.

I guess it was sold from the point of view that it would show people can fall for people regardless rather than the gotcha, you kissed a man angle.

It was risky, this was the time when Jerry springer or Maury had a guest who shot a guy another who brought him on the show as a secret crush. "

I think they really exploited her too. I mean one of the psychologist did say she really believed she was gonna have a chance with the boys (Tom and Scott - the last standing) and she thought they were gonna accept her for who she was once she revealed.

The conditions were certainly not there!

Jerry Springer was fucked up.

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By *ty31Man over a year ago

NW London

"I do vaguely remember this. She seemed to 'in on it' and happy to do it.

I guess it was sold from the point of view that it would show people can fall for people regardless rather than the gotcha, you kissed a man angle.

It was risky, this was the time when Jerry springer or Maury had a guest who shot a guy another who brought him on the show as a secret crush.

The conditions were certainly not there!

Jerry Springer was fucked up.

Unfortunately that's the type of television that does the numbers.

For example, Nick Hewer admitted in a magazine interview that Apprentice candidates aren't chosen for their ability they are chosen for the likelihood they will cause drama. The most able would be too boring and sensible to make "interesting viewing"

Maybe as viewers we should demand better and show responsibility and not watch deliberate car crash television such as Jeremy Kyle. If the shows don't do the numbers they don't get shown.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

I mean I hope never to see again a show where the head line says

“He doesn’t know I am trans “

Christ haha x

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Answering to further back. The barman was the skinny guy with dark hair and glasses

Got got the money after and spent some on a car. Haven't seen him in years as I don't live in the area now

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Answering to further back. The barman was the skinny guy with dark hair and glasses

Got got the money after and spent some on a car. Haven't seen him in years as I don't live in the area now"

Oh I know which one you mean, he seemed the sweetest from the clips I saw online and also he actually had something nice to say about her. After the whole humiliating scene at the end

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By *ty31Man 38 weeks ago

NW London

There's a documentary about the fallout from the tv show called Death of a Reality TV Star on the Channel 4 website.

I've watched the first couple of episodes.

Sounds like a shit situation all round.

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