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Inflation down, unemployment down and economy growing
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"I am ever cynical and remain unconvinced. The timing of the announcement on the same day as Ford announces a plant closures tells me that things aren't as we may hope. Combined with that, my contacts within the Logistics sector don't seem overly confident in seeing things pick up any time soon and volumes / throughputs for this time of year are well down on previous years. What's moving in and out of warehouses is a good measure of what is moving off the shelves which is sadly very little. I think every one is still holding onto their pennies as a whole and the once buoyant 3 months we saw in the run up to Christmas is now condensed in many cases to last minute spending. The next quarter or certainly the one after that will see us level out or enter a 3rd dip imho. I wish I could sound more positive, but on this matter I think it is one battle won in a long and bloody economic war."  | |||
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"Should we do a large public works campaign like America did in the 30s. We do need houses and improved infrastructure, it would help reduce unemployment and get some much needed money on through high streets... of course, we would need to borrow to do it. Would it help the country? " I think large infrastructure projects would be an investment and would have some immediate effects on the economy and public confidence. Evan Davis made a good case for it on one of his programmes recently. Infrastructure work now prepares us for the future. | |||
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"Of course it's a blip, economists are already warning that the last period reported had an unusual positive slant on it due to petrol prices falling slightly....food prices stabilising....and the fact that many businesses took on extra staff for the 'Olympic Factor' (that never actually happened after all). In the current period bulk food prices have risen at the largest rate since 1996, and seasonal jobs for the summer period have come to an end. It's only a sign of recovery if there are Three consecutive periods of imnprovement....One swallow does not a summer make. My personal tip for a TRUE recovery? Start a massive social sector house building programme, there is a disgraceful shortage of social housing in the country, bourne out of the failure to use the receipts of council house sales to build more council houses in the 80's and early 90's. It will boost jobs in the construction and building materials markets, furniture manufacturers, and other connected trades. Scrap Trident....use the money saved to build a Million social sector houses over the next 20 years instead. " Well said! | |||
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"i guess it depends on who you speak to as to whether there has been any growth and a fall in unemployment. All these stats are severely manipulated. But can anyone tell me who a vast majority of the worlds countrys are in debt to ?" China is certainly on of the biggest countries that the West are in debt to. If China ever wanted to play funny with finances it would make the last few years look like a kiddies party. | |||
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"In addition to China, Brazil is the second largest booming economy in the world today." Yep and look at Brazil 20 years ago what a great job they have done......but as ever look at the poverty there too | |||
"Whilst there are some doubters (and there will always be those in any argument), where I work in Hotels, we are close to the huge Industrial Estates around Slough. We have been hearing from some of our regular customers, that the companies they represent have been seeing growth this year on a scale unseen in previous years. The advance bookings for conferences in the coming months and into next year are proof that things are turning for the best. Yes, some sectors are still in the doldrums, but be thankful for some good news for once! "But the questions that raises for me are : a) are they UK companies that are finding growth in the UK market ? b) are they foreign businesses finding growth in the UK, but taking their profits elsewhere ? c) Is this growth exclusive to (or better felt) in the South East than elsewhere in the UK ? d) Of the growth they have seen, how much of it has been Jubilee / Olympics related ? (bearing in mind the proximity to London) e) Are the businesses large multi-nationals or small independents and if how large businesses, how long before the smaller independents reap the benefits of any growth ? f) Are the conferences pats on the back for selected staff to thank them for their assitance in cutting overheads / staffing ? g) Are the conferences 'heads together' meetings on how they can cut staffing or overheads to maintain profitability in a shrinking marketplace ? It is good that you have seen growth in bookings for your hotel and it is good news that the economic quarter has been stronger than previous, but it does not detract that we are still in an economic mire and will be until we see some capital investment and our industry leaders can see a way to see us remain competitive with the boom economies in Asia and the Americas. | |||
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"Its far too early to say as other's have said.. Jane's point on the house building is one that should have started 2 years ago.. the tories missed a trick in not listening to the CBI and the construction industry after they 'took the helm'.. the cost's of borrowing to invest in that sector would be offset and swallowed up by the tax revenue's of the subsequent growth.. factor in the reduction in rental costs for local authorities, and unemployment benefit and its a 'no brainer' that they missed out on.. not really sure what the economic 'plan' is tbh.. they just seem to be in a muddle of u turn's and bad decisions. " 'They' don't want to see Social housing growth, that's the cold stony truth of the matter.... 'They' want to see private landlords prospering at the expence of the better of the nation as a whole.... Record increases in private rental rates since the last election....no surprises there then. | |||
"Whilst there are some doubters (and there will always be those in any argument), where I work in Hotels, we are close to the huge Industrial Estates around Slough. We have been hearing from some of our regular customers, that the companies they represent have been seeing growth this year on a scale unseen in previous years. The advance bookings for conferences in the coming months and into next year are proof that things are turning for the best. Yes, some sectors are still in the doldrums, but be thankful for some good news for once!
But the questions that raises for me are :
a) are they UK companies that are finding growth in the UK market ?
b) are they foreign businesses finding growth in the UK, but taking their profits elsewhere ?
c) Is this growth exclusive to (or better felt) in the South East than elsewhere in the UK ?
d) Of the growth they have seen, how much of it has been Jubilee / Olympics related ? (bearing in mind the proximity to London)
e) Are the businesses large multi-nationals or small independents and if how large businesses, how long before the smaller independents reap the benefits of any growth ?
f) Are the conferences pats on the back for selected staff to thank them for their assitance in cutting overheads / staffing ?
g) Are the conferences 'heads together' meetings on how they can cut staffing or overheads to maintain profitability in a shrinking marketplace ?
It is good that you have seen growth in bookings for your hotel and it is good news that the economic quarter has been stronger than previous, but it does not detract that we are still in an economic mire and will be until we see some capital investment and our industry leaders can see a way to see us remain competitive with the boom economies in Asia and the Americas."A. Yes. B. Yes, some are foreign companies. C. Across the UK. D. Across the UK. E. Predominantly large companies, but some smaller ones too. F. No. They are largely dealing with future growth and related issues. G. Unknown, but what we have gleaned from attendees, is all positive feedback and news. Problerm is that some major companies are already trading very successfully with the Americas. A company I work for in the past, now trades in £billions with Brazil. But as usual, in GB, news like this takes ages to surface, almost as if they are ashamed to broadcast good news! | |||
"Problerm is that some major companies are already trading very successfully with the Americas. A company I work for in the past, now trades in £billions with Brazil. But as usual, in GB, news like this takes ages to surface, almost as if they are ashamed to broadcast good news! " Am not buying that bit - any flotsam that the Government can cling to ref trade and the economy is all over the news. Some businesses do undoubtedly prosper in times of economic hardship, but what is the trade off ? It seems that for every one that gains, two lose out. Playing with employment and trade statistics can only go on for so long. | |||
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"Is this the green shoots or a blip? It would be good to think we are finally turning a corner, its great to have some good news for a change. Things are meant to already be picking up in London and the ripple effect moving outwards, I dont think its reached Devon yet as we still seem to be feeling it down here. I am having to reapply for my job for the 2nd time in 3 years,due to a company restructure, so I hope things are on the up!!! " The government have raised the age of retirement, they have put people who are unemployed on training courses, 'volunteer' work while still on dole money, placed people on all kinds of schemes to massage the figures. There is still more people unemployed through no fault of their own. All thats happening is the powers that be are blowing smoke up the general publics arse. | |||
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"i guess it depends on who you speak to as to whether there has been any growth and a fall in unemployment. All these stats are severely manipulated. But can anyone tell me who a vast majority of the worlds countrys are in debt to ? China is certainly on of the biggest countries that the West are in debt to. If China ever wanted to play funny with finances it would make the last few years look like a kiddies party." Can't we pay the Chinese off on a contra deal? Give them something we no longer want, like eeerm, Wales? | |||
"Of course it's a blip, economists are already warning that the last period reported had an unusual positive slant on it due to petrol prices falling slightly....food prices stabilising....and the fact that many businesses took on extra staff for the 'Olympic Factor' (that never actually happened after all). In the current period bulk food prices have risen at the largest rate since 1996, and seasonal jobs for the summer period have come to an end. It's only a sign of recovery if there are Three consecutive periods of imnprovement....One swallow does not a summer make. My personal tip for a TRUE recovery? Start a massive social sector house building programme, there is a disgraceful shortage of social housing in the country, bourne out of the failure to use the receipts of council house sales to build more council houses in the 80's and early 90's. It will boost jobs in the construction and building materials markets, furniture manufacturers, and other connected trades. Scrap Trident....use the money saved to build a Million social sector houses over the next 20 years instead. " Well no-one who knew even the basics about the ideology of the New Right expected Thatcher's government to build more council houses with the money the councils got from the sale of their properties!!! | |||
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""If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it" Joseph Goebbels Eton Dave and his millionaire buddies have played the blame game all along to justify their so-called "austerity" measures, which are in fact just an ideological assault on services particularly used and needed by working people. The deficit "crisis" is a deceit - the deficit was far higher when Labour came to power in 1997 than it was in 2010 and we heard no bleating about "crisis" then. The recession of our economy is a "crisis", but is accepted and exacerbated the short-term because they can mirage the damage being wreaked on our society and because it effects those millionaires not a jot. It's also handy to introduce and vilify a few scapegoats - people on benefits, immigrants, single mothers etc; The recession is not over, it's merely beginning. These figures have been manipulated because the Tories are beginning to worry slightly about their ratings. More chance to blame the others for "causing the deficit" and "overspending", despite evidence to the contrary. Expect more such manipulation around the time of the next election. "
Not forgetting of course that only 20% of the proposed cuts have been implemented and a whopping 80% still to come. Praps with my math skills i could get a job with HMRC
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"Dont believe a word of it. " ..I don't | |||
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"Unemployment coming down? Go to the Ford Transit plant in Southampton and try telling the staff there that! "We are talking the bigger picture here | |||
"Unemployment coming down? Go to the Ford Transit plant in Southampton and try telling the staff there that!
We are talking the bigger picture here"for those people there is no bigger picture.. | |||
"I am not going to say who but I had a conversation with an extremely well known public figure/businessman about 12 months ago about the economy. His take was "When the governments around the world are finally honest with everyone about how bad it actually is then we can start to deal with it" That pretty much told me all I need to know........" Smart Cookie Whatever political stripe you are, you have to acknowledge that no economies can expand when everyone, banks, governments and citizens/subjects are paying down debts and not spending money. Keynes saw it in the 30's and it's just as true now as it was then, Beggar thy Neighbour, Beggar thyself....... | |||
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"Keynes saw it in the 30's and it's just as true now as it was then, Beggar thy Neighbour, Beggar thyself......." Does Keynes concede that paying down one's debts has the effect of doubling one's purchasing power when one isn't servicing debt any longer? Let's say I owe you £1,000 and pay by installments of £100/month. That's £100 less I have to spend elsewhere. It will take 10 months to pay back the full amount after which, on the 11th month I will find myself in the position of not only not paying you £100 but I will have £100 to spend on whatever I want without incurring any more debt. That's a £200 swing. My purchasing power has increased by 100%. So long as our economy is still producing goods & services we can sell abroad all throughout the time we're paying down debt we will be in a much stronger position on the global markets than if we borrowed now to keep paying for things we can't afford. Beggar thy neighbour, beggar thyself? Keynes seems to be promoting a 'Rob Peter to pay Paul' approach. | |||
"Keynes saw it in the 30's and it's just as true now as it was then, Beggar thy Neighbour, Beggar thyself....... Does Keynes concede that paying down one's debts has the effect of doubling one's purchasing power when one isn't servicing debt any longer? Let's say I owe you £1,000 and pay by installments of £100/month. That's £100 less I have to spend elsewhere. It will take 10 months to pay back the full amount after which, on the 11th month I will find myself in the position of not only not paying you £100 but I will have £100 to spend on whatever I want without incurring any more debt. That's a £200 swing. My purchasing power has increased by 100%. So long as our economy is still producing goods & services we can sell abroad all throughout the time we're paying down debt we will be in a much stronger position on the global markets than if we borrowed now to keep paying for things we can't afford. Beggar thy neighbour, beggar thyself? Keynes seems to be promoting a 'Rob Peter to pay Paul' approach." That is a fair point but and its a big but this is tax payers money we are talking about. The exchequer raises sufficent taxes each year to meet the social, welfare and ecomomic needs of this country. The tax it raises (from you and me et al)covers all the spending that as a moderen society we expect. That said there are stiil 200,000 children living in poverty in the UK. So where is the money going? £59b will be spent on a nuclear deterent in the next three years (probably more like £80b given the NODs procurement history) Keyenes multiplier strategy depends on govermentt spending directed on socially beneficial projects, housing, transport, schools and not on insular projects like Trident which has little or no multiplier effect in the economy as oddly as it may seem we buy in the deterent from the US making US defence companies (Halie Burton) very rich. A further £10b will be spent on the sojurns in Afgahan and Iraq........my point is that spending on targeted projects will produce revenues its an economic fact! | |||
"I am ever cynical and remain unconvinced. The timing of the announcement on the same day as Ford announces a plant closures tells me that things aren't as we may hope. Combined with that, my contacts within the Logistics sector don't seem overly confident in seeing things pick up any time soon and volumes / throughputs for this time of year are well down on previous years. What's moving in and out of warehouses is a good measure of what is moving off the shelves which is sadly very little. I think every one is still holding onto their pennies as a whole and the once buoyant 3 months we saw in the run up to Christmas is now condensed in many cases to last minute spending. The next quarter or certainly the one after that will see us level out or enter a 3rd dip imho. I wish I could sound more positive, but on this matter I think it is one battle won in a long and bloody economic war." I work for dhl and usually there are around 70 hours a week available but ATM its a fight for hours | |||
"my point is that spending on targeted projects will produce revenues its an economic fact!" It will produce wages that can be taxed, which isn't quite the same a revenues from taxation on business. Until the govt close the loopholes that allow large corporations to declare their UK earnings in offshore tax havens then it will be like having and endless dripping tap continually pouring cash away without any means to stop it. Osbourne needs to open GovtPlumbing Inc and get to work on all these drips. | |||
"my point is that spending on targeted projects will produce revenues its an economic fact! It will produce wages that can be taxed, which isn't quite the same a revenues from taxation on business. Until the govt close the loopholes that allow large corporations to declare their UK earnings in offshore tax havens then it will be like having and endless dripping tap continually pouring cash away without any means to stop it. Osbourne needs to open GovtPlumbing Inc and get to work on all these drips. "
three tory lies.
lie 1/the last government left the biggest dept in the developed world.
truth/after continuously stating the uk biggest dept in the world,george osborne admitted to the treasury select committee that he did not know,that the uk actually had the lowest dept in the G7.in fact prior to the global banking crisis,labour had actually massively reduced britains dept,inherited from the last tory government.
.
lie 2/labour created the biggest deficit
in the developed world by overspending.
fact/the last labour government had almost halved the deficit prior to the financial crisis.so it would be ludicrous to suggest overspending was to blame for a falling deficit.
the imf concluded the,the deficit was caused by the global financial crisis.
.
lie 3/our borrowing costs are low because the markets have confidence in george osbornes austerity plan.
fact/there are a number of reasons for our borrowing costs being low,very little to do with george osbornes austerity plan,but im going out so i will give yous the main reason.
the uk has not defaulted in it's depts in over 300 years.
.
the sad thing is,these facts were reported by a conservative.
the present labour party with edd at the helm,are so incompetent they could not make capital of these facts.
i just hope janes right,and edd is just the night watchman for his brother david,fingers crossed.
scource/huffington post.
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"Keynes saw it in the 30's and it's just as true now as it was then, Beggar thy Neighbour, Beggar thyself....... Does Keynes concede that paying down one's debts has the effect of doubling one's purchasing power when one isn't servicing debt any longer? Let's say I owe you £1,000 and pay by installments of £100/month. That's £100 less I have to spend elsewhere. It will take 10 months to pay back the full amount after which, on the 11th month I will find myself in the position of not only not paying you £100 but I will have £100 to spend on whatever I want without incurring any more debt. That's a £200 swing. My purchasing power has increased by 100%. So long as our economy is still producing goods & services we can sell abroad all throughout the time we're paying down debt we will be in a much stronger position on the global markets than if we borrowed now to keep paying for things we can't afford. Beggar thy neighbour, beggar thyself? Keynes seems to be promoting a 'Rob Peter to pay Paul' approach." No Wishy Keynes saw that if you take money out of circulation to pay off your debts you reduce the size of your economy, producing both deflation of the price of goods and services and a massive rise in the proportion of the ecconomy taken up by debt (a £1 debt is 100% of an ecconomy of £1, 200% of an ecconomy of £0.50). Spending out of a bust, recesion or depresion has the effect of putting money into peoples pockets, promoting demand for private industry and also reducing the proportion of debt relative to the ecconomy (the same £1.00 debt is only 50% of an economy worth £2.00). Also, when you have borrowed you can budget your spending on repayments in the LARGER ecconomy. You cannot pay down defecits in a recesion as you spending inevitably rises (rises in dole, reduction in tax take)..... You might as well borrow to bump up investment........ you are still going to be borrowing and a stagnant economy does no one any good | |||
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"Also the government is being disingenuous about 'paying off debt' because this only works in microeconomics like in a single household, it doesn't work for macroeconomics for the country because the way the country comes out of recession is to spend it's way out by spending the increased income from taxes, not by borrowing. So cutting back on spending will not increase the governments income. Spending needs to be done on infrastructure and I don't mean new houses and roads - mend existing roads and do up empty houses. " So countries that have little or no debt are what? Living beyond their means? Poor? Backward? Wrong? I've never heard such a load of tosh in all my life. If an economy is based partly on how much debt can be borrowed against then that economy is in trouble and sooner or later the whole house of cards comes tumbling down leaving those alive at the time holding the baby. We owe it to future generations that they are not the ones left with fuck all because of our selfish attitudes to wanting everything NOW without having the ability to pay for it.  | |||
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"Inflation down, unemployment down and economy growing...and Ford laying off thousands of workers.. Blip with a capital B" That would be Ford, the American company, yes? Who knows what problems Ford Inc has and if it means closing a UK plant and losing UK jobs or closing an American plant and losing American jobs which do you think it would close? | |||
"Inflation down, unemployment down and economy growing...and Ford laying off thousands of workers.. Blip with a capital B That would be Ford, the American company, yes? Who knows what problems Ford Inc has and if it means closing a UK plant and losing UK jobs or closing an American plant and losing American jobs which do you think it would close?" Actually it closing a uk factory and moving it to turkey | |||
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"What I said was not 'tosh'. If you don't agree with my opinion then that's fine just don't be puerile in your answer. You'd get more respect if your argument against my opinion was a little better than "tosh". There's only 1 country in the world that is not in debt and that's Brunei. Just google the right question to find an answer. " Well I'm hardly likely to say 'great post' if I disagree with it am I, and if you can't stand people disagreeing with you then debating probably isn't for you. Macau, Taiwan & Leichtenstein have no external debt (Brunei doesn't even appear on the list), and as for countries listed by public debt (as a % of GDP) Libya is credited by the IMF as having no public debt, along with Brunei. The United Kingdom is listed as having 82.5% of it's GDP as debt. That is way too high and it has to be dealt with. Borrowing more money (which isn't really borrowing as all that would happen is we'd repay less of our debt to free up money to spend but we'd lose our AAA rating in the process making the debt we do have more expensive to service. | |||
"It's no use paying off UK national debt it's at about a trillion pounds ..." So we just tell our creditors to fuck off then? We're not paying, so get lost.   | |||
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"It's no use paying off UK national debt it's at about a trillion pounds ... So we just tell our creditors to fuck off then? We're not paying, so get lost. "No *sigh* we pay the interest not the capital sum. | |||
""the" list? Or 'a' list that you have googled, copied and pasted from? I don't mind people disagreeing just not being so daft about it. " ooo gee, The List! now where'd you find The List eh? Did The List Makers give you exclusive access to it? Don't tell people to google something and then criticise them when they do precisely that. | |||
"It's no use paying off UK national debt it's at about a trillion pounds ... So we just tell our creditors to fuck off then? We're not paying, so get lost.
No *sigh* we pay the interest not the capital sum."Leaving the capital sum where? C'mon, you can do it, think, think, where will all this money we owe be if we don't pay it back? And here's the crucial part, what happens if we ask the people to whom we owe money to lend us some more and they say, well, sorry Britain, but you haven't paid us what you already owe us. Or, even worse, as China is busy collecting up foreign debt like it's going out of fashion how far up shit creek do we need to be before China starts pulling our strings for us? It's not about being debt free cos it's nice and cosy, it's about being debt free so we're not exposed to a foreign government who can use our debt against us. | |||
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"I can only refer you to previous posts. Nothing I can say on here will change your mind but equally I don't find your arguments convincing. Wishy-washy, I'd say. "What was that you mentioned about being peurile? We'll leave it at that and agree to differ eh? | |||
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"It makes me wonder if Labour supporters will find some way to credit the Labour Party with the inevitable upturn in the economy that always follows a downturn. It seems that they are completely blind to the truth that the nation's deficit grew exponentially under Labour as they sough to spend their way to an election victory in 2010 - a strategy that spectacularly failed - and it was left to the coalition to say, "Look, heads up, this country is in a mess, we've got to sort it out, and it's going to be painful."" I notice you never seem to mention how the tories managed to waste all the money from selling the family silver(privitisation)and oil revenue? or how Labour had to spend billions on repairing the schools and hospitals that the tories had underfunded for years. | |||
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"Labour were in Government in 2008 but it was a global downturn caused by bad mortgage debt in the USA. It would have happened no matter which party was in power. 4 years later and we have just emerged from a double dip recession if the statistics are to be believed. I suppose a pasty tax and static caravan tax would have made a huge difference..." QED. Labour supporters simply won't acknowledge that Labour got us into this mess. Labour held power for 13 years and nothing the Tories did before then can be brought to bear on the way things are now. Labour could have ensured we could ride out a global recession with relatively little pain but they were so inept at managing an economy that they didn't even see it coming. David Cameron has a chance to really make his mark in history by dragging the UK out of debt - kicking and screaming if he has to - and making sure that the right policies are in place to rebuild our finances and regain our place of influence at the world's top table. Labour would have had us capitulate at every possible turn in order to promote the 'all men are equal' bollocks they convinced themselves is the natural order. An economy driven by entrepreneurs, businessmen, innovators and capitalists is the only way to ensure everybody gets a seat at the table. So the rich get richer, they've always done that and recessions don't apply to them anyway, but their drive to succeed means they need manual labour to accomplish it, at that means jobs. Socialism is a corrupt concept because it requires someone at the top telling everyone below how to be a good socialist. | |||
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"NEW LABOUR is massively different to what the Labour Party used to be about. They were diluted Tories." They weren't/aren't that diluted! | |||
""David Cameron has a chance to really make his mark in history by dragging the UK out of debt - kicking and screaming if he has to - and making sure that the right policies are in place"......like a pasty tax or static caravan tax? I noticed you didn't comment on those laughable policies. Maybe they were scrapped for being too wishy-washy. " Pasty tax? You read the lowlife press then? Why shouldn't all hot food be subject to the same level of taxation? And why should caravans be exempt from taxation? They use the roads too don't they? We've all been on the motorways in the Summer where there are bloody caravans everywhere clogging up the road network. They should pay extra to use the roads. | |||
""If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it" Joseph Goebbels Eton Dave and his millionaire buddies have played the blame game all along to justify their so-called "austerity" measures, which are in fact just an ideological assault on services particularly used and needed by working people. The deficit "crisis" is a deceit - the deficit was far higher when Labour came to power in 1997 than it was in 2010 and we heard no bleating about "crisis" then. The recession of our economy is a "crisis", but is accepted and exacerbated the short-term because they can mirage the damage being wreaked on our society and because it effects those millionaires not a jot. It's also handy to introduce and vilify a few scapegoats - people on benefits, immigrants, single mothers etc; The recession is not over, it's merely beginning. These figures have been manipulated because the Tories are beginning to worry slightly about their ratings. More chance to blame the others for "causing the deficit" and "overspending", despite evidence to the contrary. Expect more such manipulation around the time of the next election. spot on shadow its a wonder they are not still blaming the miners its everbodies fault but theres " | |||
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"The low life press was indeed that. It was a government press release doing a u-turn on the silly pasty tax. Er....static caravans don't clog up roads? They are static. I tend to holiday abroad because I like spending my pounds sterling in the EU and I don't see that many caravans there, especially static ones hurtling down the autostrade. " Static 'mobile' home parks make use of public roads to get to them, get new 'mobile' homes in then and take old 'mobile' homes away from them. The residents of such places use water, gas, electricity and sewage services as well as bin collections etc etc. Why should they get off without paying tax when the rest of us are subject to it. Just because they chose to live in a property that devalues each year they live in it that shouldn't exempt them from paying tax. Or do you just need a drum to beat, and this is it? | |||
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"I think the actual tax policy which the government thought of, discussed at cabinet, agreed and announced by Osborne was a tax on static caravans not a tax on the people who live in them. Anyway, after initially deciding it was a good idea, they then decided after all it was a pointless tax so they dropped it. As for the pasty tax, I'm sure one politician said he'd recently had a pasty at a pasty outlet that had closed down some time before. " So you raising these two issues has just been a bit of bluster about something that doesn't exist simply to have a pop at the Tories? I voted for Blair in 97 as he seemed to be indicating that he meant what he was saying and was determined to see it through, history has shown how shallow those words were. I'm older now, and wiser, and I now know that the only way to succeed is to carve out a piece of the pie for oneself when one has one's health to do it. Successful businessmen create jobs and revenue and that's the driving force behind what the Conservatives stand for - success through endeavour - not the cradle to the grave nanny state favoured by socialists. That path allows nobody on the bottom rung to get off it and do well for themselves. At least with capitalism you have a fighting chance of succeeding if you have a good idea and a govt that recognises it. | |||
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"They have closed factories for disabled people - where's the compassion in that? " The govt have correctly identified millions of people who are fit to work yet who were signed off permanently under the last govt. Thrown on the scrap heap and left to rot on benefits. The disabled community are forever asking to be treated equally yet when measures are put into place to do just that they don't like it. Cameron said in his closing conference speech that a decade ago people would have looked at his son, Ivan, and seen a wheelchair before seeing the boy, but now people will see the boy and hardly notice the wheelchair at all. I think disbaled people have come a long way in terms of being treated equally in the workplace and most of those currently working in Remploy units could work in mainstream industry enjoying equal employee rights as their able bodied counterparts. | |||
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"So why close the Remploy factories in a recession? They already had jobs! They had no need to look for employment elsewhere! But now they have to. Compassionate Government? I don't think so. " | |||
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" Cameron said in his closing conference speech that a decade ago people would have looked at his son, Ivan, and seen a wheelchair before seeing the boy, but now people will see the boy and hardly notice the wheelchair at all." that's very true,in fact they probably wouldn't notice the wheelchair at all. as the tories would have already reclaimed the wheelchair,as part of their welfare cuts.  | |||
" Cameron said in his closing conference speech that a decade ago people would have looked at his son, Ivan, and seen a wheelchair before seeing the boy, but now people will see the boy and hardly notice the wheelchair at all. that's very true,in fact they probably wouldn't notice the wheelchair at all. as the tories would have already reclaimed the wheelchair,as part of their welfare cuts. "Saucy, my friend.. you can be so cutting xx | |||
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"Its all Bull shit, excuse my french ! " Sorry to correct you... bullshit is not French! | |||
"So why close the Remploy factories in a recession? They already had jobs! They had no need to look for employment elsewhere! But now they have to. Compassionate Government? I don't think so. " Yes they had jobs but it was able bodied taxpayers that were funding them! How is fair to ask people who get no govt assistance at all, because they are fit and able, to put money into providing jobs for people who could find employment in the mainstream workplace? Serverely disabled people would never have been in the Remploy system in the first place so it's safe to assume we are talking about people with disabilities, but not disabled to the extent that they could never be considered for Remploy, and if that's the case then they can find work like anyone else has to. Why do people expect the state to pick up the tab for every little thing in life. The state should not exist to handhold people throughout their lives but it should exist to manage the resources and services we rely upon. | |||
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"I am not going to say who but I had a conversation with an extremely well known public figure/businessman about 12 months ago about the economy. His take was "When the governments around the world are finally honest with everyone about how bad it actually is then we can start to deal with it" That pretty much told me all I need to know........" I have a banker friend that was sent over to Dublin to sort out the Irish economy..he says Ireland has a chance.....Britain is up the creek...and not a fuckin paddle in sight.. | |||
"I don't think the stats are really anything to go by. What really matters is the 'feel good' factor; do we, as the real drivers of the economy through spending, feel happy to go and start splashing out on big purchases and the like. Most people I know are still worried about jobs etc. Until that changes, we won't truly start to recover" I can see where you are coming from. At the end of the day it is the trust people have in the economy and that trust is directly reflected in their spending habits. | |||
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"I am not going to say who but I had a conversation with an extremely well known public figure/businessman about 12 months ago about the economy. His take was "When the governments around the world are finally honest with everyone about how bad it actually is then we can start to deal with it" That pretty much told me all I need to know........ I have a banker friend that was sent over to Dublin to sort out the Irish economy..he says Ireland has a chance.....Britain is up the creek...and not a fuckin paddle in sight.. "I loved a joke i read a while back about the Irish bailouts... How the Bailout works for Ireland It is a slow day in a damp little Irish town. The rain is beating down and the streets are deserted. Times are tough, everybody is in debt, and everybody lives on credit. On this particular day a rich German tourist is driving through the town, stops at the local hotel and lays a €100 note on the desk, telling the hotel owner he wants to inspect the rooms upstairs in order to pick one to spend the night. The owner gives him some keys and, as soon as the visitor has walked upstairs, the hotelier grabs the €100 note and runs next door to pay his debt to the butcher. The butcher takes the €100 note and runs down the street to repay his debt to the pig farmer. The pig farmer takes the €100 note and heads off to pay his bill at the supplier of feed and fuel. The guy at the Farmers’ Co-op takes the €100 note and runs to pay his drinks bill at the pub. The publican slips the money along to the local prostitute drinking at the bar, who has also been facing hard times and has had to offer him “services” on credit. The prostitute then rushes to the hotel and pays off her room bill to the hotel owner with the €100 note. The hotel proprietor then places the €100 note back on the counter so the rich traveller will not suspect anything. At that moment the traveller comes down the stairs, picks up the €100 note, states that the rooms are not satisfactory, pockets the money, and leaves town. No one produced anything. No one earned anything. However, the whole town is now out of debt and looking to the future with a lot more optimism. And that, Ladies and Gentlemen, is how the bailout package works. | |||
"There has been a fair bit of political point scoring on here, but most of it relates to the past and not whether we are seeing the beginning of growth in this country, and if not how do we stimulate it. I lean to the right politically, but am big enough to admit the Tories are weak currently and Cameron needs a kick up the arse to get things rolling. The previous Tory government should have invested more during the good times and built more schools, houses and hospitals and a greater infrastructure for this country, so we were future proofed. Comments about selling the family silver are bullshit. A government is not a business and did not run the naionalised companies efficiently. They were all a burden on the taxpayer and the the country and putting them out in to the free market meant they crashed or survived on their own merits. I do believe that Labour truly fucked this country with Blair/Brown's social experimentation. They spent money they did not have and created nothing apart from a layer of society that they threw on the scrapheap by giving them benefits they did not really need. There is no easier way than ensuring votes, than by making people reliant on you. So the way I see it, we should take care of or sick, disabled and elderly and provisions should be made for them. We should have good medical care and the NHS should be supported. We shoudl build and maintain our schools, colleges and universities and educate our future generations. We should maintain our military, and I definately believe in a scary world we live in that a nuclear deterant is a must. But this needs paying for. The greatest resource a company has is its employees. Working on that basis, we really neeed to get our workforce out there being productive. Like it or not, captains of industry create wealth for themselves as well as for its employees, so we need the entrepeneurs. but we also need some public works to get going. Scrap council planning and get some new housing built. fast track the bloody things and sod it if there are some newts on the land. We also need more roadways, railways and better public transport. Investing in these will get unemployment down and money moving. The banks should be scrutinised. There is no point in the Bank of England printing more money, if the banks do not lend it. With regards benefits. I think people forget they are a benefit and not a god given right. they are there for the bad times, not to live off because it is easier than working. I believe that benefits should be like a savings account, you cant take out if you dont put in. The exception should be the disabled, elderly and susceptable. I welcome economic migrants into the country. But I do believe they should only be allowed in of they can financially support themselves, much the same as the Australian system. Overall, I am proud to be British. I am proud of my country and I think we are much better condition than a lot of EU partners. I think that we can only move forward to be a truly modern country that can compete on the world stage if we realise we are all in it together and need to work as one to a common goal. Sermon over " That's pretty much how I see it too (apart from the NHS - scrap it totally, or totally reform it). Great post. | |||
"Its all Bull shit, excuse my french ! Sorry to correct you... bullshit is not French! "Sorry to correct you as well, but "Bull" is derived from the French word, boul. | |||
"I am not going to say who but I had a conversation with an extremely well known public figure/businessman about 12 months ago about the economy. His take was "When the governments around the world are finally honest with everyone about how bad it actually is then we can start to deal with it" That pretty much told me all I need to know........ I have a banker friend that was sent over to Dublin to sort out the Irish economy..he says Ireland has a chance.....Britain is up the creek...and not a fuckin paddle in sight.. "Are you sure he was talking about the state of the economy in the country or how much he could enrich himself in the said country... there is a large difference...LOL Also; Labour, Conservative, ping, pong, blah.... You can plot the economic booms against the price of oil since north sea oil was discovered. Any old duffer can boom the economy in whatever direction they like when awash with the excess revenues. | |||
"Its all Bull shit, excuse my french ! Sorry to correct you... bullshit is not French!
Sorry to correct you as well, but "Bull" is derived from the French word, boul. "and the "shit" part?
PS It is not certain that "bull" is indeed dreived from French as it could equally have come from a Germanic stem but hey who am I to argue about bollox | |||
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"There has been a fair bit of political point scoring on here, but most of it relates to the past and not whether we are seeing the beginning of growth in this country, and if not how do we stimulate it. I lean to the right politically, but am big enough to admit the Tories are weak currently and Cameron needs a kick up the arse to get things rolling. The previous Tory government should have invested more during the good times and built more schools, houses and hospitals and a greater infrastructure for this country, so we were future proofed. Comments about selling the family silver are bullshit. A government is not a business and did not run the naionalised companies efficiently. They were all a burden on the taxpayer and the the country and putting them out in to the free market meant they crashed or survived on their own merits. I do believe that Labour truly fucked this country with Blair/Brown's social experimentation. They spent money they did not have and created nothing apart from a layer of society that they threw on the scrapheap by giving them benefits they did not really need. There is no easier way than ensuring votes, than by making people reliant on you. So the way I see it, we should take care of or sick, disabled and elderly and provisions should be made for them. We should have good medical care and the NHS should be supported. We shoudl build and maintain our schools, colleges and universities and educate our future generations. We should maintain our military, and I definately believe in a scary world we live in that a nuclear deterant is a must. But this needs paying for. The greatest resource a company has is its employees. Working on that basis, we really neeed to get our workforce out there being productive. Like it or not, captains of industry create wealth for themselves as well as for its employees, so we need the entrepeneurs. but we also need some public works to get going. Scrap council planning and get some new housing built. fast track the bloody things and sod it if there are some newts on the land. We also need more roadways, railways and better public transport. Investing in these will get unemployment down and money moving. The banks should be scrutinised. There is no point in the Bank of England printing more money, if the banks do not lend it. With regards benefits. I think people forget they are a benefit and not a god given right. they are there for the bad times, not to live off because it is easier than working. I believe that benefits should be like a savings account, you cant take out if you dont put in. The exception should be the disabled, elderly and susceptable. I welcome economic migrants into the country. But I do believe they should only be allowed in of they can financially support themselves, much the same as the Australian system. Overall, I am proud to be British. I am proud of my country and I think we are much better condition than a lot of EU partners. I think that we can only move forward to be a truly modern country that can compete on the world stage if we realise we are all in it together and need to work as one to a common goal. Sermon over " Not bullshit im afraid. Once you sell off monopolies like Gas, electricity, Water and a profitable BT, then a government can't rasie that money again. How can a monopoly (that Gas, Electricity and Water were) crash when privatised?. It would be vitually impossible when people have no choice in where they get those from. | |||
" No one produced anything. No one earned anything. However, the whole town is now out of debt and looking to the future with a lot more optimism. And that, Ladies and Gentlemen, is how the bailout package works. "That was also an episode of Dave the Barbarian (although not set in Ireland). It's also the ultimate answer to clearing the 'debts'... | |||
"Labour were in Government in 2008 but it was a global downturn caused by bad mortgage debt in the USA. It would have happened no matter which party was in power. 4 years later and we have just emerged from a double dip recession if the statistics are to be believed. I suppose a pasty tax and static caravan tax would have made a huge difference... QED. Labour supporters simply won't acknowledge that Labour got us into this mess. Labour held power for 13 years and nothing the Tories did before then can be brought to bear on the way things are now. Labour could have ensured we could ride out a global recession with relatively little pain but they were so inept at managing an economy that they didn't even see it coming. David Cameron has a chance to really make his mark in history by dragging the UK out of debt - kicking and screaming if he has to - and making sure that the right policies are in place to rebuild our finances and regain our place of influence at the world's top table. Labour would have had us capitulate at every possible turn in order to promote the 'all men are equal' bollocks they convinced themselves is the natural order. An economy driven by entrepreneurs, businessmen, innovators and capitalists is the only way to ensure everybody gets a seat at the table. So the rich get richer, they've always done that and recessions don't apply to them anyway, but their drive to succeed means they need manual labour to accomplish it, at that means jobs. Socialism is a corrupt concept because it requires someone at the top telling everyone below how to be a good socialist." ha ha ha ,i go away for a while wishy and your still peddling these tired discreditted tory election soundbites , that "its all labours fault". So tell me wishy, if its labours fault for not spotting the biggest GLOBAL slump since the 1930s,do we now blame dave and cleggy for not spotting the Euro screw up ?? You cant have your cake and eat it. Also tell me why all of a sudden George the pretender is insisting one generation be lumbered to clear a structural debt that took over 300 years to acrue ? Ths is just tory rhetoric for lets get stuck into the poor AGAIN and dip into what's left of the national wealth,talk about robber barons. Donyt worry everyone ,we're all in it together..!!!! what a dreadful thing to say to the 400,000 + public service employees who lost their jobs and the poor disabled, being made to pay by cutting there help via slight of hand. The pretend chancellor, cant even buy the right rail ticket,so tell me wishy what does George Gideon Oliver Osborne,soon to be Baron Osbourne (A inherited title) know about what its like to be at the bottom of the heap and poor in this country, nothing mate is the answer.Changing your name from Gideon to George apparently doesnt give you empathy for the weakest people he has targetted to clear the national debt. Acknowledge it wishy like most of the old tory guard are now, this government is a dog, who are only interested in patricians ,not the plebs. | |||
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"Labour were in Government in 2008 but it was a global downturn caused by bad mortgage debt in the USA. It would have happened no matter which party was in power. 4 years later and we have just emerged from a double dip recession if the statistics are to be believed. I suppose a pasty tax and static caravan tax would have made a huge difference... QED. Labour supporters simply won't acknowledge that Labour got us into this mess. Labour held power for 13 years and nothing the Tories did before then can be brought to bear on the way things are now. Labour could have ensured we could ride out a global recession with relatively little pain but they were so inept at managing an economy that they didn't even see it coming. David Cameron has a chance to really make his mark in history by dragging the UK out of debt - kicking and screaming if he has to - and making sure that the right policies are in place to rebuild our finances and regain our place of influence at the world's top table. Labour would have had us capitulate at every possible turn in order to promote the 'all men are equal' bollocks they convinced themselves is the natural order. An economy driven by entrepreneurs, businessmen, innovators and capitalists is the only way to ensure everybody gets a seat at the table. So the rich get richer, they've always done that and recessions don't apply to them anyway, but their drive to succeed means they need manual labour to accomplish it, at that means jobs. Socialism is a corrupt concept because it requires someone at the top telling everyone below how to be a good socialist. ha ha ha ,i go away for a while wishy and your still peddling these tired discreditted tory election soundbites , that "its all labours fault". So tell me wishy, if its labours fault for not spotting the biggest GLOBAL slump since the 1930s,do we now blame dave and cleggy for not spotting the Euro screw up ?? You cant have your cake and eat it. Also tell me why all of a sudden George the pretender is insisting one generation be lumbered to clear a structural debt that took over 300 years to acrue ? Ths is just tory rhetoric for lets get stuck into the poor AGAIN and dip into what's left of the national wealth,talk about robber barons. Donyt worry everyone ,we're all in it together..!!!! what a dreadful thing to say to the 400,000 + public service employees who lost their jobs and the poor disabled, being made to pay by cutting there help via slight of hand. The pretend chancellor, cant even buy the right rail ticket,so tell me wishy what does George Gideon Oliver Osborne,soon to be Baron Osbourne (A inherited title) know about what its like to be at the bottom of the heap and poor in this country, nothing mate is the answer.Changing your name from Gideon to George apparently doesnt give you empathy for the weakest people he has targetted to clear the national debt. Acknowledge it wishy like most of the old tory guard are now, this government is a dog, who are only interested in patricians ,not the plebs. "Just when you think you have heard it all.... | |||
"Just when you think you have heard it all.... "It's great entertainment though, don't you think. Maybe he works for the BBC. | |||
" How can a monopoly (that Gas, Electricity and Water were) crash when privatised?. It would be vitually impossible when people have no choice in where they get those from. " The sad fact is that nationalised industries in this country were inefficiently run. The water board is a grey area for me and should maybe not have been de-nationalised, just due to the structure of our waterways being so interconnected. Succesive governments have not invested in the gas or electric infrastructure and no government can afford to update our systems now. It is only private enterprise that can afford to do this. In a few years time you will switch your lights on and find you will need candles as the power stations are defunct and none built to replace them. this is not because of privitisation, but because of governments dithering about building nuclear power stations over the last 20 years. And for all those anti-nuclear campaigners out there, sure we have the basic technology for wind and PV power, but it dont work. My sister in law is an pro green environmental scientist and her pro green company was commisioned by the last Labout government to prove that nuclear is flawed. 5 years later they produced their report, and it said the only way forward is nuclear. Labour shelved that report and continued supporting green. I work for a power company, and there is a genuine fear in the industry about the future unless decisions are taken quickly. Before the recession their were 3 big players that were interested in building plants in this country, that interest is falling because of succesive goverments dragging their feet. If it was all still nationalised we would be in even bigger shit, as we would have bureaucrats running the system and no expertise on how to, or how to build nuclear power stations. As I said before, governments have been proved to be incapable of running nationalised industries as they are not businessmen. One thing I would hate to see this country in the position of, is being the 'sick man of Europe' again like it was in the nationalised/ union ridden times of the 70s. | |||
"Just when you think you have heard it all....
It's great entertainment though, don't you think. Maybe he works for the BBC. "Stockholm Syndrome from the Socialist Worker more like... 300 years of debt? What complete and utter bollox. Prior to the 1st World War, we were a Super Power and one of the wealtiest countries in the world! | |||
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"ben i tend to agree with most of what you say. although on labour fucking up the country,i do take issue. even the most fervent torries,now accept gordon brown and the last labour government,shoulder no blame for the GLOBAL economic crisis. in fact pre crisis,the labour government had almost halved the dept inherited from the previous conservative government. far from leaving one of the biggest depts in the developed world,labour actually left one of the smallest depts,and the smallest of the g7 nations. so i would hardly call that fucking up. the obr,imf,oecd,hm treasury,and ons,are hardly organisations likely to show a bias towards the labour party. yes i did google." good points.. | |||
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"hahahaha still see some peeps think politicians and politics will find the answers to their struggles. "not really tbh, unless your suggesting we have a revolution and form a 'citizens collective' ..? its not the most perfect form of 'society' but its probably preferable than say N.Korea, Iran etc.. | |||
"hahahaha still see some peeps think politicians and politics will find the answers to their struggles.
not really tbh, unless your suggesting we have a revolution and form a 'citizens collective' ..?
its not the most perfect form of 'society' but its probably preferable than say N.Korea, Iran etc.. " | |||
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" The sad fact is that nationalised industries in this country were inefficiently run. snip Succesive governments have not invested in the gas or electric infrastructure and no government can afford to update our systems now. It is only private enterprise that can afford to do this. In a few years time you will switch your lights on and find you will need candles as the power stations are defunct and none built to replace them. this is not because of privitisation, but because of governments dithering about building nuclear power stations over the last 20 years. " Nationalised industry is a difficult one, basically they were privatised as a combined asset strip and union (worker) bashing. Of the 16 Nuclear Power stations running in the UK I believe only one was built after privatisation, all the others including some that have since gone out of service were built by a Nationalised industry. Pretty much all the "inefficiency" claimed was in fact staffing costs, in other words giving people jobs and money to spend without paying them dole money! Definitely not in the interest of shareholders, but perhaps in hindsight it may have been in the interest of Government and society as a whole. The only previously nationalised industry that has not increased prices beyond inflation consistently, has been telecoms. but that is largely due to a revolution in the technology used. Don't know if it's right to turn the clocks back, or if it's even possible. but I do think we should never have sold off the National Grid's be it water, gas, or electricity perhaps some things are better done for the people not the profits. | |||
"Labour were in Government in 2008 but it was a global downturn caused by bad mortgage debt in the USA. It would have happened no matter which party was in power. 4 years later and we have just emerged from a double dip recession if the statistics are to be believed. I suppose a pasty tax and static caravan tax would have made a huge difference... QED. Labour supporters simply won't acknowledge that Labour got us into this mess. Labour held power for 13 years and nothing the Tories did before then can be brought to bear on the way things are now. Labour could have ensured we could ride out a global recession with relatively little pain but they were so inept at managing an economy that they didn't even see it coming. David Cameron has a chance to really make his mark in history by dragging the UK out of debt - kicking and screaming if he has to - and making sure that the right policies are in place to rebuild our finances and regain our place of influence at the world's top table. Labour would have had us capitulate at every possible turn in order to promote the 'all men are equal' bollocks they convinced themselves is the natural order. An economy driven by entrepreneurs, businessmen, innovators and capitalists is the only way to ensure everybody gets a seat at the table. So the rich get richer, they've always done that and recessions don't apply to them anyway, but their drive to succeed means they need manual labour to accomplish it, at that means jobs. Socialism is a corrupt concept because it requires someone at the top telling everyone below how to be a good socialist. ha ha ha ,i go away for a while wishy and your still peddling these tired discreditted tory election soundbites , that "its all labours fault". So tell me wishy, if its labours fault for not spotting the biggest GLOBAL slump since the 1930s,do we now blame dave and cleggy for not spotting the Euro screw up ?? You cant have your cake and eat it. Also tell me why all of a sudden George the pretender is insisting one generation be lumbered to clear a structural debt that took over 300 years to acrue ? Ths is just tory rhetoric for lets get stuck into the poor AGAIN and dip into what's left of the national wealth,talk about robber barons. Donyt worry everyone ,we're all in it together..!!!! what a dreadful thing to say to the 400,000 + public service employees who lost their jobs and the poor disabled, being made to pay by cutting there help via slight of hand. The pretend chancellor, cant even buy the right rail ticket,so tell me wishy what does George Gideon Oliver Osborne,soon to be Baron Osbourne (A inherited title) know about what its like to be at the bottom of the heap and poor in this country, nothing mate is the answer.Changing your name from Gideon to George apparently doesnt give you empathy for the weakest people he has targetted to clear the national debt. Acknowledge it wishy like most of the old tory guard are now, this government is a dog, who are only interested in patricians ,not the plebs.
Just when you think you have heard it all.... "well instead of emoticons of wide eyes why dont you debate the points ,it a forum . | |||
"hahahaha still see some peeps think politicians and politics will find the answers to their struggles.
not really tbh, unless your suggesting we have a revolution and form a 'citizens collective' ..?
its not the most perfect form of 'society' but its probably preferable than say N.Korea, Iran etc.. "Hahaha funny how peeps always hold up a bad example of what we could have instead like its the only other possibility | |||
"hahahaha still see some peeps think politicians and politics will find the answers to their struggles.
not really tbh, unless your suggesting we have a revolution and form a 'citizens collective' ..?
its not the most perfect form of 'society' but its probably preferable than say N.Korea, Iran etc..
Hahaha funny how peeps always hold up a bad example of what we could have instead like its the only other possibility "Such as? | |||
" The sad fact is that nationalised industries in this country were inefficiently run. dont know if it's right to turn the clocks back, or if it's even possible. but I do think we should never have sold off the National Grid's be it water, gas, or electricity perhaps some things are better done for the people not the profits." agree with both points, they needed sorting etc but to have them sorted in the long term by public investment with any benefits in reduced costs to the user would be preferable to the current model imho.. PFI is the economic equivelant of using the tally man or other rip off merchants.. its one step too far for a society to go down that 'free market path' with infrastructure but we brought into it, lets be shareholders.. better to bite the bullet as a country and accept we need a structured programme of rebuilding and updating our infrstructure.. trouble is by and large we lack faith with our politicians and do not trust them to either deliver or in what they tell us.. i for one dont want my grandkids and further on paying for 'my hospital'.. profit should not be involved, any dividends go back in the pot for all.. | |||
"hahahaha still see some peeps think politicians and politics will find the answers to their struggles.
not really tbh, unless your suggesting we have a revolution and form a 'citizens collective' ..?
its not the most perfect form of 'society' but its probably preferable than say N.Korea, Iran etc..
Hahaha funny how peeps always hold up a bad example of what we could have instead like its the only other possibility "and your own would be what then? | |||
"PD, you've been away a while and come back with the same old tired clapped out 'Tory rich boys handing out poor mans dosh to their as equally rich chummies'. 300 years? Are you dreaming? 300 years ago saw the House of Hanover accede to the British crown and parliament had only existed for a mere 20 years (or did Oliver & Richard Cromwell begin the rot by buying up stuff they didn't have they cash for). It amazes me that to defelct criticism away from the Blair/Brown years some people are actually starting to believe that Labour reduced the deficit they inherited from the Thatcher/Major years, and that Blair/Brown left the country in great shape when they were ejected from power two years ago. (pssst.. heads up, who was it that left a note for the incoming Chancellor that basically read: Good luck, there's no cash left) As for the Euro screw up, yes, the Tories spotted it, but they weren't in power were they, and no matter how hard successive leaders of the Conservatives in opposition tried to argue that Britain needed to pull away from Europe and not integrate further into it, it made absolutely no difference to Blair, and then Brown, with their social experiment to make the UK some sort of socialist paradise of equality (which basically meant opening the floodgates to untold millions of foreigners to come here unchecked and unrestricted because they all carried with them one vital thing: a vote). If the public employee roster has lost 400,000 jobs then it is now obvious that those jobs were not really needed as evidenced by the country failing to come to a grinding halt in their abscence, and we all know how good Labour were at manipulating the unemployment figures by moving unemployed people onto the long term disabled list and creating jobs in the public sector that didn't exist simply to reduce the unemployment figures. As for George Osbourne, I don't really see how his name means anything. What one calls oneself is irrelevant when it comes to how one performs one's duties. You're clutching at straws with that one and you're using it as a convenient stick with which to prod the Tories - but you're doing it sneakily from behind, a bit like playing "knock up ginger" and running away." Wishy wishy wishy ,your doing what you always do and distorting history to suite a dogmatic approach to your politics . Before the late 17th century, it was customary for the state to fund its war debts by levying new taxes. But by 1694 the Nine Years' War had left the English Government's finances in tatters and not a Labour party in sight . We were forced to borrow £1.2 million at a rate of 8% from the newly formed Bank of England and national deficit financing was born.
Modern concepts of National Debts emerged in the 18th century, banking and financial markets enabled the creation of debt through the issue of bonds.
The national debt rose from £12m to £850m by the end of the Napoleonic Wars and still not a Socialist government in sight Wishy, far higher as a percentage of GDP than it is now .
LOL in 1946 our public debt stood at 250% of GDP and slowly came down under succesive governments,so do not quote the national debt as a doctrine for Tory policies to me it will not work.
After decades of relative peace and prosperity,our national debt is indeed rising once more,but not because of labour wishy ,they have not been in power for a couple of years and despite the cuts the debt has continued to rise and it is increasing in the speed it rises at.
Maybe its all those benefits you have to pay out to the newly unemployed ,loss of National Insurance revenue and VAT on goods no longer being bought ,or maybe its the loss of revenue from reducing corporation tax,and a "Britain is open to Business" policy that is allowing corporations to dodge the meger taxes they should be paying.
Re you comment on Europe,omg the tories have dithered for years on Europe your party has resembled a dog who cant decide where to piss .
So Dave saw it coming did he, yeah of course he did .
Like all Tory PM's he is walking a tightrope within his own party ,even last year on the Referendum debate he faced a rebellion of over 50 backbenchers defying the whip.
Dave the saviour, i am afraid is slipping in the Tory approval ratings with only 37% supporting him as PM
The "plebgate" affair follows months of policy U-turns, botched policy launches and embarrassing revelations over Cameron's ties with officials implicated in the phone hacking debacle. However we all found the tax U-turns from the budget amusing,but when he cut top taxes for the rich,unfortunately for him the Tory ethos slipped out a little bit to much for the Mr and Mrs Average His ratings dipped sharply in March. (
Finally Regarding Dave i will leave a quote from a member of his own party he says it far better than i ever could
"Compounded by a string of reversals resulting from a failure to grasp how the public might receive new measures, respect for government policy within the Conservative Party is sliding.
"It saps morale and people just stop fighting the good fight. The backbenchers just do not defend things anymore, because they suspect a U-turn is coming," the Conservative lawmaker said.
Conservative lawmaker Brian Binley told Reuters he had pleaded with Cameron to improve management skills at Downing Street, offering advice as a "critical friend, not an opponent".
I spy Boris (Daves bogey man) behind it all. You have made sense with some things you have said in the past wishy ,
But to suggest Dave saw Europes embarrassment before it happened doesnt hold any cred at all.His reaction to it was reflected his binary dilemma. One second he was roaring about protecting our national interest, the next he was declaring that “we are in the European Union and that’s where we want to be”.
Hardly a pre-emptive well thought out example of leadership is it.?
The big problem Dave has is Boris, Cleggy,and the rebel backbenchers fearing there spot post next election.
You see he is too busy looking over his shoulder and trying to hold back the dam thats ultimately going to wash him away.
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"I'm at Chessington eating an UNTAXED pasty so hurrah for Tory u-turns!!!! "That tax on that pasty would of helped clear the national debt according to Baron George ...shame on you !!! | |||
"I'm at Chessington eating an UNTAXED pasty so hurrah for Tory u-turns!!!! "Plebeian food | |||
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"How dare you call our national dish Plebian food,I hope your other half will punish you for it "haha, if I play my cards right she will!  | |||
"Just when you think you have heard it all....
It's great entertainment though, don't you think. Maybe he works for the BBC.
Stockholm Syndrome from the Socialist Worker more like...
300 years of debt? What complete and utter bollox. Prior to the 1st World War, we were a Super Power and one of the wealtiest countries in the world!"Yes but we have always had debt both national and structural and wealth funded from the legacy of the Industrial revolution+empire. I think you need to go have a look at the history of national debt before you go and call facts "complete and utter bollox" it could get embarrassing for you. | |||
"I'm at Chessington eating an UNTAXED pasty so hurrah for Tory u-turns!!!!
Plebeian food "Tin miners food. | |||
"I'm at Chessington eating an UNTAXED pasty so hurrah for Tory u-turns!!!!
That tax on that pasty would of helped clear the national debt according to Baron George ...shame on you !!! "If it had had a tax on it of over a trillion pounds then it would have had! | |||
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"When did Britain pay off the WWII debt to the USA and Canada? December 2006. There is always debt between countries. We've never been in a hurry to pay it off before." think the 'hurry' is based on the public is bad private is best ideology of the tories.. in fairness 'new labour' were and largly still seem to be of the same mindset.. | |||
"...But to suggest Dave saw Europes embarrassment before it happened doesnt hold any cred at all.His reaction to it was reflected his binary dilemma. One second he was roaring about protecting our national interest, the next he was declaring that “we are in the European Union and that’s where we want to be”. Hardly a pre-emptive well thought out example of leadership is it.? " What I said was: Conservatives in opposition had seen the problems in Europe and had urged Labour to keep Britain out of it. Read back and see. " The big problem Dave has is Boris, Cleggy,and the rebel backbenchers fearing there spot post next election. You see he is too busy looking over his shoulder and trying to hold back the dam thats ultimately going to wash him away. "Clegg is finished in politics come 2015. He'll keep his seat sure, but his party will suffer a blow that will take them generations to recover from and his party will dump him faster than an incontinent geriatric with a particularly bad dose of the shits. As for Dave being 'washed away', well, we'll see on that one come 2015, but if I was to stick my neck out I think we'll see him surfing his way to a second term but this time he won't have Clegg holding on to the back of his surf board. Remember what I said last year about the first and second halves of a parliamentary term: They implement unpopular policies in the first half, and make concessions in the second half as they know an election is looming and they need to buy votes. It's happened at every election in living memory. I'm expecting tax breaks and fuel price freezes come 2014. You watch and see. | |||
"Just when you think you have heard it all....
It's great entertainment though, don't you think. Maybe he works for the BBC.
Stockholm Syndrome from the Socialist Worker more like...
300 years of debt? What complete and utter bollox. Prior to the 1st World War, we were a Super Power and one of the wealtiest countries in the world!
Yes but we have always had debt both national and structural and wealth funded from the legacy of the Industrial revolution+empire.
I think you need to go have a look at the history of national debt before you go and call facts "complete and utter bollox" it could get embarrassing for you.
"cmon _leasuredome,when have facts ever been of any importance,in the life of a tory.
ps they dont get embarrassed,for that a modicum of humility is required.  | |||
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