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Transgender sports events
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"Walks into the thread, turns and walks out again..." lol | |||
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"Walks into the thread, turns and walks out again..." | |||
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"How many threads does this topic need "Exactly sir | |||
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"What do people think of a transgender( from male to female) taking part in female events? Do people think it's fair?" What do you think about it? | |||
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"Do people think it's fair? Nope. " Is there a satisfactory solution? Nope. There thread done x | |||
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"What do people think of a transgender( from male to female) taking part in female events? Do people think it's fair?" Yes, I think it's entirely fair, and the evidence backs up that transition alters the way in which people perform athletically. I'm looking forward to today's howls of outrage being consigned to the sewer of history. | |||
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"It's more complicated than a simple yes or no." Indeed! Do people think its fair? Some do, some don't. Is if fair? Well that is highly up for debate, and an extreme range of factors need to be taken in to account before that is factually settled with a solid answer. Even then regardless of what that answer may be, there will be those that will still argue against the solution (whatever that may be). | |||
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"What do people think of a transgender( from male to female) taking part in female events? Do people think it's fair? Yes, I think it's entirely fair, and the evidence backs up that transition alters the way in which people perform athletically. I'm looking forward to today's howls of outrage being consigned to the sewer of history." The scientific evidence shows that 2 years post transition athletes maintain a 12% physical advantage, so certain sports where physicality is important will infer a significant advantage to trans athletes. I'm sure there will be more studies going forward. Not sure there are howls of derision, certainly not from me but it is a complex question and one which I am sure is going to challenge sporting authorities going forward. | |||
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"What do people think of a transgender( from male to female) taking part in female events? Do people think it's fair? Yes, I think it's entirely fair, and the evidence backs up that transition alters the way in which people perform athletically. I'm looking forward to today's howls of outrage being consigned to the sewer of history. The scientific evidence shows that 2 years post transition athletes maintain a 12% physical advantage, so certain sports where physicality is important will infer a significant advantage to trans athletes. I'm sure there will be more studies going forward. Not sure there are howls of derision, certainly not from me but it is a complex question and one which I am sure is going to challenge sporting authorities going forward. " I for one welcome my trans sisters wholeheartedly  | |||
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"What do people think of a transgender( from male to female) taking part in female events? Do people think it's fair? Yes, I think it's entirely fair, and the evidence backs up that transition alters the way in which people perform athletically. I'm looking forward to today's howls of outrage being consigned to the sewer of history. The scientific evidence shows that 2 years post transition athletes maintain a 12% physical advantage, so certain sports where physicality is important will infer a significant advantage to trans athletes. I'm sure there will be more studies going forward. Not sure there are howls of derision, certainly not from me but it is a complex question and one which I am sure is going to challenge sporting authorities going forward. I for one welcome my trans sisters wholeheartedly "I'm sure we all do. | |||
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"Of course it's not fair you still have the muscle mass of a male" After two years, I believe, muscle atrophy shows marked progress to the level that it has a marked impact on performance. Whether its enough or not I don't know, but not quite still having the muscle mass of a male. Fair or not? I am not qualified to say, my Biomedical Science degree hasn't arrived yet. | |||
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"Of course it's not fair you still have the muscle mass of a male" that’s not true muscular atrophy happens also your ligaments change | |||
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"Female sport is in danger of being obliterated so a solution needs to be found that respects the rights of transgender athletes but protects the integrity of female sport. A separate category is probably the only workable solution." How is it in danger of being obliterated? Weight lifter t the Olympics came third and the most recent debacle comes from people getting upset at a mediocre swimmer beating less than mediocre competitors. They were no where near competitive times, even the trans woman who won. | |||
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"Of course it's not fair you still have the muscle mass of a male" Maybe do some research | |||
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"Of course it's not fair you still have the muscle mass of a male After two years, I believe, muscle atrophy shows marked progress to the level that it has a marked impact on performance. Whether its enough or not I don't know, but not quite still having the muscle mass of a male. Fair or not? I am not qualified to say, my Biomedical Science degree hasn't arrived yet." Indeed. I do wonder how special it is to live in a world where one's brain is only capable of viewing things that are simplified to have zero complexity, free of factors, and void of variables. Very few things in this world are as simple as black and white, grey is the colour of the world. | |||
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" Very few things in this world are as simple as black and white, grey is the colour of the world. " I like pink too  | |||
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"Female sport is in danger of being obliterated so a solution needs to be found that respects the rights of transgender athletes but protects the integrity of female sport. A separate category is probably the only workable solution. How is it in danger of being obliterated? Weight lifter t the Olympics came third and the most recent debacle comes from people getting upset at a mediocre swimmer beating less than mediocre competitors. They were no where near competitive times, even the trans woman who won. " She won three races in the fastest times in the country in each event. The challenge is one of precedent, and science will have to play a role. Trans athletes have the right to compete compete engage in the sports they love, but females who have trained all of their lives also have the right to compete on a biologically level playing field. Or we cancel sexual segregation completely and let all athletes, male, female, trans etc compete together, but I hope we could all agree that would be a backward step. | |||
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"Is this groundhog day? "Punxsutawney Paula isn't showing their face today | |||
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"Female sport is in danger of being obliterated so a solution needs to be found that respects the rights of transgender athletes but protects the integrity of female sport. A separate category is probably the only workable solution. How is it in danger of being obliterated? Weight lifter t the Olympics came third and the most recent debacle comes from people getting upset at a mediocre swimmer beating less than mediocre competitors. They were no where near competitive times, even the trans woman who won. She won three races in the fastest times in the country in each event. The challenge is one of precedent, and science will have to play a role. Trans athletes have the right to compete compete engage in the sports they love, but females who have trained all of their lives also have the right to compete on a biologically level playing field. Or we cancel sexual segregation completely and let all athletes, male, female, trans etc compete together, but I hope we could all agree that would be a backward step." On that day but no where near best times for the events. A Single cis gendered female at the same swim meet broke 18 records yet no one is talking about her dominance of the sport. Why is that? | |||
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"And what about the toilet issue? Has that been solved yet? " Yes. For many many years | |||
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"So how has the toilet thing been resolved" They put a lock on the door | |||
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"So how has the toilet thing been resolved They put a lock on the door " So nobody can get in? | |||
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"So how has the toilet thing been resolved They put a lock on the door " Cubicles. It's a revolution  | |||
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"So how has the toilet thing been resolved" Did you do a thread on the teacher who was fired for having Muhammed om his coffee mug yet, Tom? It's all over the news. | |||
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"So how has the toilet thing been resolved" Do you have gender specific toilets at home, Tom? How do you avoid others walking on you in public's toilets generally? | |||
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"How about a separate series of events?.. Trans-Atlantic Games™" | |||
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"The toilet issue is another dog whistle. Transpeople have been using the toilets of their affirmed gender for decades largely without fuss." How so? I’ve hit genuine questions about it I don’t feel have been resolved. I don’t feel I’m dog whistling. | |||
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"The toilet issue is another dog whistle. Transpeople have been using the toilets of their affirmed gender for decades largely without fuss. How so? I’ve hit genuine questions about it I don’t feel have been resolved. I don’t feel I’m dog whistling." So what genuine questions do you have about people using bathrooms? | |||
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"More repeat threads on this again I see. There is definitely more scientific research being carried out to asses impacts, nothing outright conclusive has been published as of yet as far as I can see. In the study someone mentioned earlier quoting a 12% physical advantage in some activities for trans female athletes, the scientists did go on to conclude more than 12 months testosterone suppression may be required to ensure there is no unfair advantage in elite woman’s sports. Also the study noted after a period of time taking hormones, advantages in certain strength test, disappeared. There is no ideal solution as it stands, and trans and non trans folk can appreciate both sides of the situation, and some may view one side of the discussion only, as seen in other discussions. " There. That pretty much covers it! | |||
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"The toilet issue is another dog whistle. Transpeople have been using the toilets of their affirmed gender for decades largely without fuss. How so? I’ve hit genuine questions about it I don’t feel have been resolved. I don’t feel I’m dog whistling. So what genuine questions do you have about people using bathrooms?" Well I need to know how it’s been “Resolved” first I wasn’t aware we had reached an answer yet so maybe I don’t have any questions? | |||
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"Would it be fair if Anthony Joshua had a sex change and entered the women's heavyweight boxing?" 
Fucksake. | |||
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"The toilet issue is another dog whistle. Transpeople have been using the toilets of their affirmed gender for decades largely without fuss. How so? I’ve hit genuine questions about it I don’t feel have been resolved. I don’t feel I’m dog whistling. So what genuine questions do you have about people using bathrooms? Well I need to know how it’s been “Resolved” first I wasn’t aware we had reached an answer yet so maybe I don’t have any questions?" Cubicles. With locks. | |||
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"Would it be fair if Anthony Joshua had a sex change and entered the women's heavyweight boxing?" After 2 years of hormone therapy, probably a lot fairer than if he did it now. I guess. | |||
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"Would it be fair if Anthony Joshua had a sex change and entered the women's heavyweight boxing?
Fucksake."Can anyone honestly answer if that would be fair.. Any single person, not on this thread, on this whole site. Tell me that it would be fair for Anythony Joshua to have a sex change and enter a boxing match with a female heavyweight boxer | |||
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"Is this groundhog day?
Punxsutawney Paula isn't showing their face today"lol | |||
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"For all those advocating for trans women to compete against biological women. Because you seem to think estrogen has magia properties that turns you magically into a woman and cause you to lose those massive advantages you have over biological women. Go to youtube and watch videos of trans competitors in MMA. Watch those women thrown around like Randall's and having what basically amounts to their head being used as a punching bag. Go and watch that and tell me they have no advantage. If you can stomach that sickening sight and still say its OK and there no advantage, then the only conclusion I can draw is that you hate women. That's going to be my final comment on this." I can stomach it and I hope we see much more of it. I do suggest that if you have such incredible ability to read the mind and intent of others, there's probably a great career opportunity for you in intelligence agencies. Maybe you'll be able to root out the Russian misinformation with your super powers | |||
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"For all those advocating for trans women to compete against biological women. Because you seem to think estrogen has magia properties that turns you magically into a woman and cause you to lose those massive advantages you have over biological women. Go to youtube and watch videos of trans competitors in MMA. Watch those women thrown around like Randall's and having what basically amounts to their head being used as a punching bag. Go and watch that and tell me they have no advantage. If you can stomach that sickening sight and still say its OK and there no advantage, then the only conclusion I can draw is that you hate women. That's going to be my final comment on this. I can stomach it and I hope we see much more of it. I do suggest that if you have such incredible ability to read the mind and intent of others, there's probably a great career opportunity for you in intelligence agencies. Maybe you'll be able to root out the Russian misinformation with your super powers " A classic case of.. if you can't win the arguement then attack the speaker... | |||
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"Would it be fair if Anthony Joshua had a sex change and entered the women's heavyweight boxing?
Fucksake.
Can anyone honestly answer if that would be fair..
Any single person, not on this thread, on this whole site. Tell me that it would be fair for Anythony Joshua to have a sex change and enter a boxing match with a female heavyweight boxer"Tanya Fury would have a chance | |||
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"For all those advocating for trans women to compete against biological women. Because you seem to think estrogen has magia properties that turns you magically into a woman and cause you to lose those massive advantages you have over biological women. Go to youtube and watch videos of trans competitors in MMA. Watch those women thrown around like Randall's and having what basically amounts to their head being used as a punching bag. Go and watch that and tell me they have no advantage. If you can stomach that sickening sight and still say its OK and there no advantage, then the only conclusion I can draw is that you hate women. That's going to be my final comment on this. I can stomach it and I hope we see much more of it. I do suggest that if you have such incredible ability to read the mind and intent of others, there's probably a great career opportunity for you in intelligence agencies. Maybe you'll be able to root out the Russian misinformation with your super powers A classic case of.. if you can't win the arguement then attack the speaker... "Yes, suggesting that everyone who disagrees with you hates women is wild, isn't it? I'm glad we can agree occasionally, Tom  | |||
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"For all those advocating for trans women to compete against biological women. Because you seem to think estrogen has magia properties that turns you magically into a woman and cause you to lose those massive advantages you have over biological women. Go to youtube and watch videos of trans competitors in MMA. Watch those women thrown around like Randall's and having what basically amounts to their head being used as a punching bag. Go and watch that and tell me they have no advantage. If you can stomach that sickening sight and still say its OK and there no advantage, then the only conclusion I can draw is that you hate women. That's going to be my final comment on this. I can stomach it and I hope we see much more of it. I do suggest that if you have such incredible ability to read the mind and intent of others, there's probably a great career opportunity for you in intelligence agencies. Maybe you'll be able to root out the Russian misinformation with your super powers A classic case of.. if you can't win the arguement then attack the speaker... "Thing is, Tom, there is no winning this argumament. No one actually has the answer yet. Everyone has an opinion. Everyone also has an arse. My arse is no better than yours or anyone else's | |||
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"The toilet issue is another dog whistle. Transpeople have been using the toilets of their affirmed gender for decades largely without fuss. How so? I’ve hit genuine questions about it I don’t feel have been resolved. I don’t feel I’m dog whistling. So what genuine questions do you have about people using bathrooms? Well I need to know how it’s been “Resolved” first I wasn’t aware we had reached an answer yet so maybe I don’t have any questions? Cubicles. With locks." Turn all toilets unisex and put locks on the cubicles is the accepted answer? I mean that resolves it for me, I don’t care. | |||
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"demonstrates that gender dysphoria should be diagnosed in a lot earlier whilst children are still in school and have a 3 to 5 year time limit on transition into Olympic sport maybe reassignment surgery " No just no. No no no no. That's terrifying. There's a growing number of kids who were diagnosed early on who are now detransitioning and having to deal with what's been done to thier bodies. This is a dangerous path. I don't care if that makes anyone think I'm a biggot. Most kids don't know what they want to do with their life and you want to make permanent life changing decisions for them like that? No. Definitely not. | |||
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"demonstrates that gender dysphoria should be diagnosed in a lot earlier whilst children are still in school and have a 3 to 5 year time limit on transition into Olympic sport maybe reassignment surgery " I don't have masses of knowledge on this subject. The one boy I know was 13, he went through all the meetings locally, was transferred to a specialist in London, was approved for puberty blockers, was living as a girl at home and school. Woke up one morning and decided to stay a boy. Saying they "should" be diagnosed at school isnt going to fit or suit everyone. | |||
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"demonstrates that gender dysphoria should be diagnosed in a lot earlier whilst children are still in school and have a 3 to 5 year time limit on transition into Olympic sport maybe reassignment surgery " Absolutely. | |||
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"For all those advocating for trans women to compete against biological women. Because you seem to think estrogen has magia properties that turns you magically into a woman and cause you to lose those massive advantages you have over biological women. Go to youtube and watch videos of trans competitors in MMA. Watch those women thrown around like Randall's and having what basically amounts to their head being used as a punching bag. Go and watch that and tell me they have no advantage. If you can stomach that sickening sight and still say its OK and there no advantage, then the only conclusion I can draw is that you hate women. That's going to be my final comment on this." Isn't the point of MMA to the the other person a bout like a rag doll? Someone did mention a skill injury on another thread but I haven't looked in to that story much and if like to .now the general injury rate in female MMA fighters before we single this incident out. Injuries aren't always to do with raw power advantages. | |||
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"For all those advocating for trans women to compete against biological women. Because you seem to think estrogen has magia properties that turns you magically into a woman and cause you to lose those massive advantages you have over biological women. Go to youtube and watch videos of trans competitors in MMA. Watch those women thrown around like Randall's and having what basically amounts to their head being used as a punching bag. Go and watch that and tell me they have no advantage. If you can stomach that sickening sight and still say its OK and there no advantage, then the only conclusion I can draw is that you hate women. That's going to be my final comment on this. I can stomach it and I hope we see much more of it. I do suggest that if you have such incredible ability to read the mind and intent of others, there's probably a great career opportunity for you in intelligence agencies. Maybe you'll be able to root out the Russian misinformation with your super powers A classic case of.. if you can't win the arguement then attack the speaker...
Yes, suggesting that everyone who disagrees with you hates women is wild, isn't it? I'm glad we can agree occasionally, Tom "My point here is this and then I am done because I can't be doing with haters. The haters in this instance are those that cannot deal with any discussion around gender politics without screaming about transphobia. I believe that every person should be treated with dignity and respect regardless of sex. We should all be treated equally. Now the inconvenient truth is this. Nobody and I mean nobody can deny that Joshua would have a huge advantage in female boxing. And to attack those women like Sharon Davies who stand up for women's sport are as hateful as the bullies who attack trans people. Now Essex Tom has no time for radical feminists or radical trans allies. They are both as poisonous as each other. I don't know if the word truthphobic exists but those who deny that Joshua would be on a level playing field with female boxers are truthphobics | |||
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"The toilet issue is another dog whistle. Transpeople have been using the toilets of their affirmed gender for decades largely without fuss. How so? I’ve hit genuine questions about it I don’t feel have been resolved. I don’t feel I’m dog whistling. So what genuine questions do you have about people using bathrooms? Well I need to know how it’s been “Resolved” first I wasn’t aware we had reached an answer yet so maybe I don’t have any questions? Cubicles. With locks. Turn all toilets unisex and put locks on the cubicles is the accepted answer? I mean that resolves it for me, I don’t care. " The issue is already resolved. As I've said, trans people are free to use the toilets of their affirmed sex unless there's a genuine reason why they can't and the law sets a really high bar on that. Gender reassignment is a protected characteristic under the equality act 2010. Some women aren't happy with that, citing that opens the door to men dressing as women to access women's toilets for malevolent reasons, but that either means they dont believe transgenderism exists, or that the problem is men, in which case eather than tackling male violence or sexual predation you're just going to ban transwomen. That's why it's a dog whistle. Incidentally the same argument was used to drum up anti gay and lesbian sentiment so it's often just recycled are redirected homophobia. You will if you look see cases now of biological women who have been harassed in female spaces because they 'look masucline' and this often affects members of the lesbian community and also women of colour. By the same token and line of logic if this was really about protecting wens spaces from men playing dress up we would ban any maintenance activity in women's spaces, face masks, and Muslim women wearing the niqab or burka. Finally if you enforce somehow a ban kn trans people using their affirmed facilities and make them use the ones of their birth sex, you then have transmen with beards using women's bathrooms, making it pretty easy for anyone masculine presenting to enter female spaces. The argument got banning transpeople from restrooms is basically just an argument saying transpeople are malevolent perverts and it's just ignorance. It's not an argument made in good faith. Transwomen are just as statistically likely to be assaulted ot sexually assaulted by men and we want women's spaces to be as safe as any other woman does. | |||
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"The issue is already resolved. As I've said, trans people are free to use the toilets of their affirmed sex unless there's a genuine reason why they can't and the law sets a really high bar on that. Gender reassignment is a protected characteristic under the equality act 2010. Some women aren't happy with that, citing that opens the door to men dressing as women to access women's toilets for malevolent reasons, but that either means they dont believe transgenderism exists, or that the problem is men, in which case eather than tackling male violence or sexual predation you're just going to ban transwomen. That's why it's a dog whistle. Incidentally the same argument was used to drum up anti gay and lesbian sentiment so it's often just recycled are redirected homophobia. You will if you look see cases now of biological women who have been harassed in female spaces because they 'look masucline' and this often affects members of the lesbian community and also women of colour. By the same token and line of logic if this was really about protecting wens spaces from men playing dress up we would ban any maintenance activity in women's spaces, face masks, and Muslim women wearing the niqab or burka. Finally if you enforce somehow a ban kn trans people using their affirmed facilities and make them use the ones of their birth sex, you then have transmen with beards using women's bathrooms, making it pretty easy for anyone masculine presenting to enter female spaces. The argument got banning transpeople from restrooms is basically just an argument saying transpeople are malevolent perverts and it's just ignorance. It's not an argument made in good faith. Transwomen are just as statistically likely to be assaulted ot sexually assaulted by men and we want women's spaces to be as safe as any other woman does." Resolved  | |||
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"For all those advocating for trans women to compete against biological women. Because you seem to think estrogen has magia properties that turns you magically into a woman and cause you to lose those massive advantages you have over biological women. Go to youtube and watch videos of trans competitors in MMA. Watch those women thrown around like Randall's and having what basically amounts to their head being used as a punching bag. Go and watch that and tell me they have no advantage. If you can stomach that sickening sight and still say its OK and there no advantage, then the only conclusion I can draw is that you hate women. That's going to be my final comment on this. I can stomach it and I hope we see much more of it. I do suggest that if you have such incredible ability to read the mind and intent of others, there's probably a great career opportunity for you in intelligence agencies. Maybe you'll be able to root out the Russian misinformation with your super powers A classic case of.. if you can't win the arguement then attack the speaker...
Yes, suggesting that everyone who disagrees with you hates women is wild, isn't it? I'm glad we can agree occasionally, Tom
My point here is this and then I am done because I can't be doing with haters. The haters in this instance are those that cannot deal with any discussion around gender politics without screaming about transphobia.
I believe that every person should be treated with dignity and respect regardless of sex.
We should all be treated equally. Now the inconvenient truth is this. Nobody and I mean nobody can deny that Joshua would have a huge advantage in female boxing.
And to attack those women like Sharon Davies who stand up for women's sport are as hateful as the bullies who attack trans people.
Now Essex Tom has no time for radical feminists or radical trans allies. They are both as poisonous as each other.
I don't know if the word truthphobic exists but those who deny that Joshua would be on a level playing field with female boxers are truthphobics
"I'm glad you feel no further need to discuss the issue. I'm not sure I can say the same. | |||
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"For all those advocating for trans women to compete against biological women. Because you seem to think estrogen has magia properties that turns you magically into a woman and cause you to lose those massive advantages you have over biological women. Go to youtube and watch videos of trans competitors in MMA. Watch those women thrown around like Randall's and having what basically amounts to their head being used as a punching bag. Go and watch that and tell me they have no advantage. If you can stomach that sickening sight and still say its OK and there no advantage, then the only conclusion I can draw is that you hate women. That's going to be my final comment on this." is this at the top level? Or is the amtchinh wrong? Any names to Google? Aware of one person and that's it | |||
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"Would it be fair if Anthony Joshua had a sex change and entered the women's heavyweight boxing?
Fucksake.
Can anyone honestly answer if that would be fair..
Any single person, not on this thread, on this whole site. Tell me that it would be fair for Anythony Joshua to have a sex change and enter a boxing match with a female heavyweight boxer"It’s not even contact sports. Watch Rachel McKenna winning the 2018 world championship cycling , she’s clearly a man pretending to be a woman , she even admitted it in her phd on lying. And of course she’s a lesbian | |||
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"Would it be fair if Anthony Joshua had a sex change and entered the women's heavyweight boxing?
Fucksake.
Can anyone honestly answer if that would be fair..
Any single person, not on this thread, on this whole site. Tell me that it would be fair for Anythony Joshua to have a sex change and enter a boxing match with a female heavyweight boxer
It’s not even contact sports. Watch Rachel McKenna winning the 2018 world championship cycling , she’s clearly a man pretending to be a woman , she even admitted it in her phd on lying. And of course she’s a lesbian "that’s so horrible calling a trans woman clearly a man you should be ashamed of yourself | |||
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"demonstrates that gender dysphoria should be diagnosed in a lot earlier whilst children are still in school and have a 3 to 5 year time limit on transition into Olympic sport maybe reassignment surgery No just no. No no no no. That's terrifying. There's a growing number of kids who were diagnosed early on who are now detransitioning and having to deal with what's been done to thier bodies. This is a dangerous path. I don't care if that makes anyone think I'm a biggot. Most kids don't know what they want to do with their life and you want to make permanent life changing decisions for them like that? No. Definitely not." The thing is signs are usually very evident from early on because you are born trans it’s not something you become. Can’t freaking win. You could do certain things if your body doesn’t get spoil by testosterone BUT NO, Too early to transition, or can’t do those things because it’s too late to transition and body is now spoilt. So which is it? | |||
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"demonstrates that gender dysphoria should be diagnosed in a lot earlier whilst children are still in school and have a 3 to 5 year time limit on transition into Olympic sport maybe reassignment surgery No just no. No no no no. That's terrifying. There's a growing number of kids who were diagnosed early on who are now detransitioning and having to deal with what's been done to thier bodies. This is a dangerous path. I don't care if that makes anyone think I'm a biggot. Most kids don't know what they want to do with their life and you want to make permanent life changing decisions for them like that? No. Definitely not. The thing is signs are usually very evident from early on because you are born trans it’s not something you become. Can’t freaking win. You could do certain things if your body doesn’t get spoil by testosterone BUT NO, Too early to transition, or can’t do those things because it’s too late to transition and body is now spoilt. So which is it? " It's both, because you're not supposed to win, you're supposed to conform. You didn't, so... | |||
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"demonstrates that gender dysphoria should be diagnosed in a lot earlier whilst children are still in school and have a 3 to 5 year time limit on transition into Olympic sport maybe reassignment surgery No just no. No no no no. That's terrifying. There's a growing number of kids who were diagnosed early on who are now detransitioning and having to deal with what's been done to thier bodies. This is a dangerous path. I don't care if that makes anyone think I'm a biggot. Most kids don't know what they want to do with their life and you want to make permanent life changing decisions for them like that? No. Definitely not. The thing is signs are usually very evident from early on because you are born trans it’s not something you become. Can’t freaking win. You could do certain things if your body doesn’t get spoil by testosterone BUT NO, Too early to transition, or can’t do those things because it’s too late to transition and body is now spoilt. So which is it? It's both, because you're not supposed to win, you're supposed to conform. You didn't, so..." Bang on the head xx u couldn’t have said it better | |||
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"Would it be fair if Anthony Joshua had a sex change and entered the women's heavyweight boxing?
Fucksake.
Can anyone honestly answer if that would be fair..
Any single person, not on this thread, on this whole site. Tell me that it would be fair for Anythony Joshua to have a sex change and enter a boxing match with a female heavyweight boxer
It’s not even contact sports. Watch Rachel McKenna winning the 2018 world championship cycling , she’s clearly a man pretending to be a woman , she even admitted it in her phd on lying. And of course she’s a lesbian "did she really say this ? I can't find anything that says that (she did do a thesis on lying) | |||
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"Yeah sad isn’t it some win and some loose x I e seen photos of trans woman that have had FFS it’s horrible how testosterone causes irreversible damage so giving a child androcur to block puberty until she’s 16 is a good and caring thing to do so if 1 out of 100 decides it was wrong for them is that fair for the 99 but it’s right for ? " And the signs tend to be there from a very young age so I don’t understand why any parent would ignore it and then that person would have to spend £20-30K down the line to fix with FFS . When they basically have to shave off the facial bone.. which seems to be painful. | |||
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"How many threads does this topic need
Exactly sir "Don't read it then!!! Oh what a boring life you most lead reading 'repeated topics' | |||
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"No it’s not fair to me. Maybe these people who change their sex should complete against each other in sports. Not expect to change from a man to woman and enter female side sports. " What about female who have abused testosterone and that have pitty much turned them selfs in to what a trans athlete would be should they be banned for life | |||
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"Well women who go above the amount of testosterone allowed are being disqualified and banned from competing. So what’s your point asking me that?" No they alter they bone density just like a trans athlete So they take a years ban and come back and be fine That makes no sens as Basically they turned them selfs in to a trans athlete The reason I ask this question is I like to find out if someone knows exactly what they talking about If they don’t that will give the awnings you just gave People that know the ins and outs off this subject would give the right answers As they would understand that basically they have turned them selfs in to what a trans athlete would be | |||
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"Well women who go above the amount of testosterone allowed are being disqualified and banned from competing. So what’s your point asking me that? No they alter they bone density just like a trans athlete So they take a years ban and come back and be fine That makes no sens as Basically they turned them selfs in to a trans athlete The reason I ask this question is I like to find out if someone knows exactly what they talking about If they don’t that will give the awnings you just gave People that know the ins and outs off this subject would give the right answers As they would understand that basically they have turned them selfs in to what a trans athlete would be " Exactly. Would be interested If somebody who transitioned as a child, and looks exactly like a woman, no visible perceived “advantages” somehow manages to keep that information a secret, wins something. And then it comes out she’s trans. Bet people still be mad and say the same things because it’s a matter of “trans can’t play sports with us normal people, period” | |||
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"Well women who go above the amount of testosterone allowed are being disqualified and banned from competing. So what’s your point asking me that? No they alter they bone density just like a trans athlete So they take a years ban and come back and be fine That makes no sens as Basically they turned them selfs in to a trans athlete The reason I ask this question is I like to find out if someone knows exactly what they talking about If they don’t that will give the awnings you just gave People that know the ins and outs off this subject would give the right answers As they would understand that basically they have turned them selfs in to what a trans athlete would be Exactly. Would be interested If somebody who transitioned as a child, and looks exactly like a woman, no visible perceived “advantages” somehow manages to keep that information a secret, wins something. And then it comes out she’s trans. Bet people still be mad and say the same things because it’s a matter of “trans can’t play sports with us normal people, period”" That would be interesting to see and see what people reaction would be to that As I can name about 10-15 woman off the top off my head in the MMA world that have flat out failed multiple times for testroin but are still took they years ban and come back With altered muscle fibres and bone density They may have been born woman but have pritty much turned them selfs in to what a trans athlete That transised after puberty would be And there is no out cry to have them banned for life | |||
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"Yeah sad isn’t it some win and some loose x I e seen photos of trans woman that have had FFS it’s horrible how testosterone causes irreversible damage so giving a child androcur to block puberty until she’s 16 is a good and caring thing to do so if 1 out of 100 decides it was wrong for them is that fair for the 99 but it’s right for ? And the signs tend to be there from a very young age so I don’t understand why any parent would ignore it and then that person would have to spend £20-30K down the line to fix with FFS . When they basically have to shave off the facial bone.. which seems to be painful. " Because puberty blockers aren't reversible - the NHS no longer claims they are. | |||
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"Yeah sad isn’t it some win and some loose x I e seen photos of trans woman that have had FFS it’s horrible how testosterone causes irreversible damage so giving a child androcur to block puberty until she’s 16 is a good and caring thing to do so if 1 out of 100 decides it was wrong for them is that fair for the 99 but it’s right for ? And the signs tend to be there from a very young age so I don’t understand why any parent would ignore it and then that person would have to spend £20-30K down the line to fix with FFS . When they basically have to shave off the facial bone.. which seems to be painful. Because puberty blockers aren't reversible - the NHS no longer claims they are." But the signs are there, if a parent is good enough to pick up on them and have opinions from specialists (and obviously take into account how the child is feeling in all of this) Gender identity in kids with gender dysphoria (so a trans brain) develop as early as 4-5 . I definitely know it from experience and can remember … | |||
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"Yeah sad isn’t it some win and some loose x I e seen photos of trans woman that have had FFS it’s horrible how testosterone causes irreversible damage so giving a child androcur to block puberty until she’s 16 is a good and caring thing to do so if 1 out of 100 decides it was wrong for them is that fair for the 99 but it’s right for ? And the signs tend to be there from a very young age so I don’t understand why any parent would ignore it and then that person would have to spend £20-30K down the line to fix with FFS . When they basically have to shave off the facial bone.. which seems to be painful. Because puberty blockers aren't reversible - the NHS no longer claims they are. But the signs are there, if a parent is good enough to pick up on them and have opinions from specialists (and obviously take into account how the child is feeling in all of this) Gender identity in kids with gender dysphoria (so a trans brain) develop as early as 4-5 . I definitely know it from experience and can remember … " What about the research into high statistics of desistance for young people, Kylie? Do you think social transition (say until 16) is an acceptable compromise? | |||
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"Yeah sad isn’t it some win and some loose x I e seen photos of trans woman that have had FFS it’s horrible how testosterone causes irreversible damage so giving a child androcur to block puberty until she’s 16 is a good and caring thing to do so if 1 out of 100 decides it was wrong for them is that fair for the 99 but it’s right for ? And the signs tend to be there from a very young age so I don’t understand why any parent would ignore it and then that person would have to spend £20-30K down the line to fix with FFS . When they basically have to shave off the facial bone.. which seems to be painful. Because puberty blockers aren't reversible - the NHS no longer claims they are." nhs are awful most children have to go private or DIY as the waiting times are measured in years usually 5-6 years just to be seen and if you’re 14 it’s to late by the time you’re seen | |||
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"Yeah sad isn’t it some win and some loose x I e seen photos of trans woman that have had FFS it’s horrible how testosterone causes irreversible damage so giving a child androcur to block puberty until she’s 16 is a good and caring thing to do so if 1 out of 100 decides it was wrong for them is that fair for the 99 but it’s right for ? And the signs tend to be there from a very young age so I don’t understand why any parent would ignore it and then that person would have to spend £20-30K down the line to fix with FFS . When they basically have to shave off the facial bone.. which seems to be painful. Because puberty blockers aren't reversible - the NHS no longer claims they are. nhs are awful most children have to go private or DIY as the waiting times are measured in years usually 5-6 years just to be seen and if you’re 14 it’s to late by the time you’re seen " You haven't addressed what I said though about puberty blockers? I know the waiting lists are ridiculous and that's something that needs addressing (although health waiting lists in general are spiralling). What do you mean "too late"? Too late for what? | |||
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"Female sport is in danger of being obliterated so a solution needs to be found that respects the rights of transgender athletes but protects the integrity of female sport. A separate category is probably the only workable solution." By what measure is female sport "in danger of being obliterated"? Sounds like some sort of Daily Mail soundbite. Women's football had its highest ever attendance the other night, shattering the long-standing record by 40,000. If anything, women's sport is thriving. | |||
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"Yeah sad isn’t it some win and some loose x I e seen photos of trans woman that have had FFS it’s horrible how testosterone causes irreversible damage so giving a child androcur to block puberty until she’s 16 is a good and caring thing to do so if 1 out of 100 decides it was wrong for them is that fair for the 99 but it’s right for ? And the signs tend to be there from a very young age so I don’t understand why any parent would ignore it and then that person would have to spend £20-30K down the line to fix with FFS . When they basically have to shave off the facial bone.. which seems to be painful. Because puberty blockers aren't reversible - the NHS no longer claims they are. nhs are awful most children have to go private or DIY as the waiting times are measured in years usually 5-6 years just to be seen and if you’re 14 it’s to late by the time you’re seen You haven't addressed what I said though about puberty blockers? I know the waiting lists are ridiculous and that's something that needs addressing (although health waiting lists in general are spiralling). What do you mean "too late"? Too late for what?" to late as in testosterone ruining the body, GGP use androcur to hold it off and I know there’s a few side effects but it absolutely is reversible I’m u sure what Tavistock use | |||
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"Yeah sad isn’t it some win and some loose x I e seen photos of trans woman that have had FFS it’s horrible how testosterone causes irreversible damage so giving a child androcur to block puberty until she’s 16 is a good and caring thing to do so if 1 out of 100 decides it was wrong for them is that fair for the 99 but it’s right for ? And the signs tend to be there from a very young age so I don’t understand why any parent would ignore it and then that person would have to spend £20-30K down the line to fix with FFS . When they basically have to shave off the facial bone.. which seems to be painful. Because puberty blockers aren't reversible - the NHS no longer claims they are. nhs are awful most children have to go private or DIY as the waiting times are measured in years usually 5-6 years just to be seen and if you’re 14 it’s to late by the time you’re seen You haven't addressed what I said though about puberty blockers? I know the waiting lists are ridiculous and that's something that needs addressing (although health waiting lists in general are spiralling). What do you mean "too late"? Too late for what? to late as in testosterone ruining the body, GGP use androcur to hold it off and I know there’s a few side effects but it absolutely is reversible I’m u sure what Tavistock use " Gender GP? Gender GP led by Dr Helen Webberley who is suspended by the GMC. And her husband Dr Michael Webberley who is currently in a tribunal to examine his clinical care of young people. | |||
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"Yeah sad isn’t it some win and some loose x I e seen photos of trans woman that have had FFS it’s horrible how testosterone causes irreversible damage so giving a child androcur to block puberty until she’s 16 is a good and caring thing to do so if 1 out of 100 decides it was wrong for them is that fair for the 99 but it’s right for ? And the signs tend to be there from a very young age so I don’t understand why any parent would ignore it and then that person would have to spend £20-30K down the line to fix with FFS . When they basically have to shave off the facial bone.. which seems to be painful. Because puberty blockers aren't reversible - the NHS no longer claims they are. But the signs are there, if a parent is good enough to pick up on them and have opinions from specialists (and obviously take into account how the child is feeling in all of this) Gender identity in kids with gender dysphoria (so a trans brain) develop as early as 4-5 . I definitely know it from experience and can remember … What about the research into high statistics of desistance for young people, Kylie? Do you think social transition (say until 16) is an acceptable compromise? " Social transition has to be one of the key elements to assessing if that child is trans. Because they’d need to have that lived experience in their desired gender. A specialist gender psychiatrist would carefully assess a child (and it goes under another categoy of gender dysphoria categoery if its a child), they don’t give out blockers like candy x No surgeries or female hormones till adult life It could be a compromise, but at 16 probably voice would have dropped (requiring either voice therapy or surgery if it’s too low) and hair started to grow. So corrections will need to be made already. Electrolysis and laser (on face) I don’t wish that torture on anybody … x and it’s expensive | |||
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"I believe there is a quite simple solution, a very fair easily adopted remedy but if it is offensive I do not. Know but I'm not one to shy away from controversy and I feel strongly on this issue, if transpeople wish to compete in sport they should set up their own committees and legislative bodies and host their own events with rules and regulations that they wish to implement. With prize money or wages that can compete against other sports they would attract all the best athletes. The trans community seems large so I don't see why this would be an issue . It seems only transpeople are adverse to this notion as I don't know any non trans people who would be against this idea ." ...they could allow drugs or hormone treatments and allow any weight age height categories they wanted ... it could actually be really interesting the ya could allow whatever testosterone/estrogen levels they deemed "fair" ..it could be great for scientific research and sports development and would benefit future transpeople .. I honestly don't understand why the concept is lost on the trans community .. isn't there a saying if you can't join them ..beat them ? | |||
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"Yeah sad isn’t it some win and some loose x I e seen photos of trans woman that have had FFS it’s horrible how testosterone causes irreversible damage so giving a child androcur to block puberty until she’s 16 is a good and caring thing to do so if 1 out of 100 decides it was wrong for them is that fair for the 99 but it’s right for ? And the signs tend to be there from a very young age so I don’t understand why any parent would ignore it and then that person would have to spend £20-30K down the line to fix with FFS . When they basically have to shave off the facial bone.. which seems to be painful. Because puberty blockers aren't reversible - the NHS no longer claims they are. But the signs are there, if a parent is good enough to pick up on them and have opinions from specialists (and obviously take into account how the child is feeling in all of this) Gender identity in kids with gender dysphoria (so a trans brain) develop as early as 4-5 . I definitely know it from experience and can remember … What about the research into high statistics of desistance for young people, Kylie? Do you think social transition (say until 16) is an acceptable compromise? Social transition has to be one of the key elements to assessing if that child is trans. Because they’d need to have that lived experience in their desired gender. A specialist gender psychiatrist would carefully assess a child (and it goes under another categoy of gender dysphoria categoery if its a child), they don’t give out blockers like candy x No surgeries or female hormones till adult life It could be a compromise, but at 16 probably voice would have dropped (requiring either voice therapy or surgery if it’s too low) and hair started to grow. So corrections will need to be made already. Electrolysis and laser (on face) I don’t wish that torture on anybody … x and it’s expensive " What worries me is that Gender GP do seem to give out blockers like candy. And I can absolutely understand why people bypass the NHS waiting lists to see them. But the Webberleys seem to have little duty of care. And GIDS is failing badly. The recent (interim) Cass Review suggests huge reform is needed for trans healthcare. It's clearly very needed. There are no easy answers. I really appreciate that we can have discussion here about these issues as Twitter is so polarised. | |||
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"I believe there is a quite simple solution, a very fair easily adopted remedy but if it is offensive I do not. Know but I'm not one to shy away from controversy and I feel strongly on this issue, if transpeople wish to compete in sport they should set up their own committees and legislative bodies and host their own events with rules and regulations that they wish to implement. With prize money or wages that can compete against other sports they would attract all the best athletes. The trans community seems large so I don't see why this would be an issue . It seems only transpeople are adverse to this notion as I don't know any non trans people who would be against this idea ." Where is this large trans community?? It’s like a small percentage of the population, cut a huge amount who don’t really care for sports (cos let’s be real..), cut the majority who would be at amateur level at best. U are left with …3 cats. Literally I’ve heard that trans were able to compete in the Olympics for over a decade. There’s maybe been 1-2? And those didn’t win anything. Like.. what are you on about? Maybe if they do end up setting up their own league, it could be the perfect chance to get your own gold Olympic Medal | |||
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"Also I’m not sure why we are discussing this because a child can’t do this on her/his own anyway. And it’d have to be at the discretion of the parents ANYWAY. With the parents consent (how it should be) And I believe it’s not gonna be a case of parents forcing their own kids transition into the gender they want (as in what the parents want) Y’all. All I’m saying is, if the signs are there, they should be addressed and recognised ..not ignored or made to feel guilty or different. Then it will be at the family discretion to see how they wanna go on about it " In Scotland things are changing so parental consent is not needed. That worries me. Children can socially transition without parental consent if guidance from the government is followed. | |||
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"Also I’m not sure why we are discussing this because a child can’t do this on her/his own anyway. And it’d have to be at the discretion of the parents ANYWAY. With the parents consent (how it should be) And I believe it’s not gonna be a case of parents forcing their own kids transition into the gender they want (as in what the parents want) Y’all. All I’m saying is, if the signs are there, they should be addressed and recognised ..not ignored or made to feel guilty or different. Then it will be at the family discretion to see how they wanna go on about it In Scotland things are changing so parental consent is not needed. That worries me. Children can socially transition without parental consent if guidance from the government is followed. " I should have added, I think as a parent it's a very tricky path to tread - but ignoring my child or guilting them into staying as their birth sex - is not the answer. It's really difficult with teens just keeping the lines of communication open in my experience. But that's what needs to happen. | |||
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"I believe there is a quite simple solution, a very fair easily adopted remedy but if it is offensive I do not. Know but I'm not one to shy away from controversy and I feel strongly on this issue, if transpeople wish to compete in sport they should set up their own committees and legislative bodies and host their own events with rules and regulations that they wish to implement. With prize money or wages that can compete against other sports they would attract all the best athletes. The trans community seems large so I don't see why this would be an issue . It seems only transpeople are adverse to this notion as I don't know any non trans people who would be against this idea . Where is this large trans community?? It’s like a small percentage of the population, cut a huge amount who don’t really care for sports (cos let’s be real..), cut the majority who would be at amateur level at best. U are left with …3 cats. Literally I’ve heard that trans were able to compete in the Olympics for over a decade. There’s maybe been 1-2? And those didn’t win anything. Like.. what are you on about? Maybe if they do end up setting up their own league, it could be the perfect chance to get your own gold Olympic Medal "Where is this large trans community ? ..want me to show you ? All I'd have to do is post a thread saying transwomen aren't women . The large community will soon appear. Followed by the support ...I don't think you understand my gist I'm not saying exclusively trans games ...if you read what I said I said large prize money and wages could attract the best athletes in the world . I think . And it's sad, that begging for acceptance into sport is just another way trans people seek validity and acceptance in the wider world .. but it's having an adverse effect .. everytime transathletes dominate in women's only sport events it kicks up massive negative opinions on transpeople ...and IV yet to see a transathlete succeed when converting from female to male sporting events ... As for my golf medal . Well I'm sure I'll get banned and muted soon...5 times in two weeks deserves some sort of medal . iv almost as many bans ..as verifications this month | |||
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"I believe there is a quite simple solution, a very fair easily adopted remedy but if it is offensive I do not. Know but I'm not one to shy away from controversy and I feel strongly on this issue, if transpeople wish to compete in sport they should set up their own committees and legislative bodies and host their own events with rules and regulations that they wish to implement. With prize money or wages that can compete against other sports they would attract all the best athletes. The trans community seems large so I don't see why this would be an issue . It seems only transpeople are adverse to this notion as I don't know any non trans people who would be against this idea ." It’s to do with viewing numbers. Womens sport is bad enough vs mens for figures and popularity. A trans only event would just be so low on viewing figures it probably wouldn’t attract the investors to grow it alas properly (we are a niche ) . We see this in how low trans representation is in movies / gaming and popularity to the masses . Maybe a few mixed events baked into where Athletes can choose to compete if they are happy to as well. It is a shame though as it’s a problem area that will need some real effort on all sides to resolve or come up with a solution . I mean perhaps they could look at a handicap on certain events for trans over non trans … I am trans and been on hormones a good 10 years , pretty slim not much muscle mass but I still have way more explosive force and the ability to generate power rapidly vs women of my similar build. (Heart is bigger / lungs are bigger / muscles are different / bone density/ skeletal construction may or may not be more advantageous in some events etc ) Equally vs a male of similar stature I would just be over powered / out classed simply as my testosterone/ fat levels / energy levels are way way lower than theirs . Yes lgbt is more visible today but we are still a minority and trans people are a micro minority within that . (L | |||
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"Also I’m not sure why we are discussing this because a child can’t do this on her/his own anyway. And it’d have to be at the discretion of the parents ANYWAY. With the parents consent (how it should be) And I believe it’s not gonna be a case of parents forcing their own kids transition into the gender they want (as in what the parents want) Y’all. All I’m saying is, if the signs are there, they should be addressed and recognised ..not ignored or made to feel guilty or different. Then it will be at the family discretion to see how they wanna go on about it In Scotland things are changing so parental consent is not needed. That worries me. Children can socially transition without parental consent if guidance from the government is followed. " Social transition would mean .. asking people to be referred a certain way, come out as trans girl or trans boy, wear clothes that reflect your true gender and a style that reflects that and try live a life that way. Gender markers etc can only be changed after having had the gender dysphoria diagnosis and a specialist saying yes this is the case. If somebody at that age, I assume would live with their parents still, I mean there has to be some sort of consent cos it’s gonna be obvious
If the parents do anything in their power to have their kid confirm. I’d be looking into how good those parents are…
It’d be like when years ago, you had parents beat up their kids when they found out they were gay or lesbians or whatever. That’d be highly frowned upon nowadays but sexuality seems to be accepted now. Because it is understood more | |||
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"I believe there is a quite simple solution, a very fair easily adopted remedy but if it is offensive I do not. Know but I'm not one to shy away from controversy and I feel strongly on this issue, if transpeople wish to compete in sport they should set up their own committees and legislative bodies and host their own events with rules and regulations that they wish to implement. With prize money or wages that can compete against other sports they would attract all the best athletes. The trans community seems large so I don't see why this would be an issue . It seems only transpeople are adverse to this notion as I don't know any non trans people who would be against this idea . Where is this large trans community?? It’s like a small percentage of the population, cut a huge amount who don’t really care for sports (cos let’s be real..), cut the majority who would be at amateur level at best. U are left with …3 cats. Literally I’ve heard that trans were able to compete in the Olympics for over a decade. There’s maybe been 1-2? And those didn’t win anything. Like.. what are you on about? Maybe if they do end up setting up their own league, it could be the perfect chance to get your own gold Olympic Medal
Where is this large trans community ? ..want me to show you ? All I'd have to do is post a thread saying transwomen aren't women . The large community will soon appear. Followed by the support ...I don't think you understand my gist I'm not saying exclusively trans games ...if you read what I said I said large prize money and wages could attract the best athletes in the world . I think . And it's sad, that begging for acceptance into sport is just another way trans people seek validity and acceptance in the wider world .. but it's having an adverse effect .. everytime transathletes dominate in women's only sport events it kicks up massive negative opinions on transpeople ...and IV yet to see a transathlete succeed when converting from female to male sporting events ... As for my golf medal . Well I'm sure I'll get banned and muted soon...5 times in two weeks deserves some sort of medal . iv almost as many bans ..as verifications this month "There’s about 0.6% of trans . So that’s not a high number. Considering that a lot wouldn’t really care for sports. Like … u see where I’m trying to go? So are you suggesting like the LGBTQ whatever competitions? like Trust me , I get it. And I agree, Lia Thomas did have such a back lash on the trans community and polarised even more . In my opinion, doing a LOT of damage on how people perceive trans (particularly women) The problem is that a lot of people still see her as a man. But that’s not true representation of how all trans are. I do wonder tho if it was somebody who you could not tell, and kept it a secret (till at a later reveal). And didn’t have a clear physical advantage, if people still would be mad. I’d say people would still be raging But I also see the other side, of genuine trans women and men who want to keep playing sports without making people think it’s an evil plan. | |||
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"Also I’m not sure why we are discussing this because a child can’t do this on her/his own anyway. And it’d have to be at the discretion of the parents ANYWAY. With the parents consent (how it should be) And I believe it’s not gonna be a case of parents forcing their own kids transition into the gender they want (as in what the parents want) Y’all. All I’m saying is, if the signs are there, they should be addressed and recognised ..not ignored or made to feel guilty or different. Then it will be at the family discretion to see how they wanna go on about it In Scotland things are changing so parental consent is not needed. That worries me. Children can socially transition without parental consent if guidance from the government is followed. Social transition would mean .. asking people to be referred a certain way, come out as trans girl or trans boy, wear clothes that reflect your true gender and a style that reflects that and try live a life that way. Gender markers etc can only be changed after having had the gender dysphoria diagnosis and a specialist saying yes this is the case. If somebody at that age, I assume would live with their parents still, I mean there has to be some sort of consent cos it’s gonna be obvious
If the parents do anything in their power to have their kid confirm. I’d be looking into how good those parents are…
It’d be like when years ago, you had parents beat up their kids when they found out they were gay or lesbians or whatever. That’d be highly frowned upon nowadays but sexuality seems to be accepted now. Because it is understood more "If the Scottish guidelines are followed primary aged kids could be referred to by their preferred gender in school and parents would have no knowledge of it. To me that breaks the trust between schools and parents and that's the wrong way to do it. No consent required from parents. There is also the worrying report from the Telegraph that 51 trans boys had double mastectomies approved. You've suggested a very sensible approach by comparison. | |||
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"First of all transpeople need a figurehead/mascot/ someone who dominates at their category of sport against both men and women . Someone like Bruce Jenner would've been ideal but I believe you need a modern day sporting icon to start their own league or competition and to challenge the elite at their particular event . With that would come the viewing figures and financial backing " Amazing how you are still intentionally calling her Bruce even tho she’s been Kathleen for ages. And didn’t Kathleen , even tho she is very vocal against trans athletes , compete in an all ladies golf championship or whatever? | |||
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"First of all transpeople need a figurehead/mascot/ someone who dominates at their category of sport against both men and women . Someone like Bruce Jenner would've been ideal but I believe you need a modern day sporting icon to start their own league or competition and to challenge the elite at their particular event . With that would come the viewing figures and financial backing Amazing how you are still intentionally calling her Bruce even tho she’s been Kathleen for ages. And didn’t Kathleen , even tho she is very vocal against trans athletes , compete in an all ladies golf championship or whatever? "Caitlin lol | |||
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"First of all transpeople need a figurehead/mascot/ someone who dominates at their category of sport against both men and women . Someone like Bruce Jenner would've been ideal but I believe you need a modern day sporting icon to start their own league or competition and to challenge the elite at their particular event . With that would come the viewing figures and financial backing Amazing how you are still intentionally calling her Bruce even tho she’s been Kathleen for ages. And didn’t Kathleen , even tho she is very vocal against trans athletes , compete in an all ladies golf championship or whatever?
Caitlin lol "Whatever. I don’t particularly follow Caitlin so I’m sorry I got her name wrong | |||
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"First of all transpeople need a figurehead/mascot/ someone who dominates at their category of sport against both men and women . Someone like Bruce Jenner would've been ideal but I believe you need a modern day sporting icon to start their own league or competition and to challenge the elite at their particular event . With that would come the viewing figures and financial backing Amazing how you are still intentionally calling her Bruce even tho she’s been Kathleen for ages. And didn’t Kathleen , even tho she is very vocal against trans athletes , compete in an all ladies golf championship or whatever?
Caitlin lol
Whatever. I don’t particularly follow Caitlin so I’m sorry I got her name wrong"I'm not bothered | |||
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Still can’t properly serve tho x | |||
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"Y’all this is really exhausting. So I’m out . Thankfully I was crap at sports and didn’t like them, u know flimsy arms! But I am forever grateful of having being able to be part of an all-girls volleyball team when I was young. Those two years …I had a real blast x
Still can’t properly serve tho x "Xx | |||
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"Can’t even believe it’s a debate . To me it’s a total no brainier and not fair what so ever for the other female athletes." Have you read the whole thread and looked in to the subject or just no braining this as well? | |||
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"Y’all this is really exhausting. So I’m out . Thankfully I was crap at sports and didn’t like them, u know flimsy arms! But I am forever grateful of having being able to be part of an all-girls volleyball team when I was young. Those two years …I had a real blast x
Still can’t properly serve tho x "Totally understand why you're out. Hope I haven't upset you. X | |||
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"Can’t even believe it’s a debate . To me it’s a total no brainier and not fair what so ever for the other female athletes." Can I ask then should woman who are born woman who have failed for testroin Be banned for life I can name 10-15 right now whare is the out cry | |||
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"No I haven’t read any of the other messages I have just simply put forward my opinion on the subject of this thread ? Every male that has become female and been allowed to participate in the female professional sport , have dominated and won it with ease . That says it all in my eyes alone . Imagine you had a daughter that dedicated her whole life to win in her sport then she comes up against a competitor that was once male and does have male traits within that body still, it’s totally unfair there split into to different genders for a reason , the male body is naturally stronger And it shows in the results of ones that have been allowed in the last few years . " What about female athletes that have took testosterone and focrsed they body’s to go though those changed the same as men should they be banned for life I see all this out cry on trans athlete But 0 out cry on woman take steroids and turning them selfs in to trans athletes | |||
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"It’s very different tho in terms of FairPlay if anything the female going into male puts them at a big disadvantage whereas the other is the complete opposite." No it’s not I have friends who work for a lab I have friends who are at the leading forfort In development off new ways to test for steroids And they were test done on serton MMA athletes woman who had faild for synthetic testroin and bascule tured them selfs in to trans athlete and still competing in woman’s sports I am not talking about woman going over to mens sports I talking about the millions off woman athletes that are on gear and still being alowed to compete after words but have altered they body in way They are bascule trans athlete even though they were born woman People need to wake up and see If your saying trans athlete shouldn’t compete in woman’s sports Then any woman who has failed for steroids should be banned for life | |||
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"It’s very different tho in terms of FairPlay if anything the female going into male puts them at a big disadvantage whereas the other is the complete opposite. No it’s not I have friends who work for a lab I have friends who are at the leading forfort In development off new ways to test for steroids And they were test done on serton MMA athletes woman who had faild for synthetic testroin and bascule tured them selfs in to trans athlete and still competing in woman’s sports I am not talking about woman going over to mens sports I talking about the millions off woman athletes that are on gear and still being alowed to compete after words but have altered they body in way They are bascule trans athlete even though they were born woman People need to wake up and see If your saying trans athlete shouldn’t compete in woman’s sports Then any woman who has failed for steroids should be banned for life " Yep I agree. But it is a different topic than the one being discussed. | |||
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"It’s very different tho in terms of FairPlay if anything the female going into male puts them at a big disadvantage whereas the other is the complete opposite. No it’s not I have friends who work for a lab I have friends who are at the leading forfort In development off new ways to test for steroids And they were test done on serton MMA athletes woman who had faild for synthetic testroin and bascule tured them selfs in to trans athlete and still competing in woman’s sports I am not talking about woman going over to mens sports I talking about the millions off woman athletes that are on gear and still being alowed to compete after words but have altered they body in way They are bascule trans athlete even though they were born woman People need to wake up and see If your saying trans athlete shouldn’t compete in woman’s sports Then any woman who has failed for steroids should be banned for life Yep I agree. But it is a different topic than the one being discussed. " Yes and no it is but it isn’t because All the points are is the went though puburty they have stronger bone density and muscle fibres A woman on steroids is basically going though a man’s puberty So if the agreement hinged on that Then those woman all need to be banned for like as they are trans athletes | |||
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"It’s very different tho in terms of FairPlay if anything the female going into male puts them at a big disadvantage whereas the other is the complete opposite." Did you see the story of the FtM boxer who won his first professional fight last week? | |||
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"As a running coach its totaly unfair " Are trans women trying to dominate coaching as well?  | |||
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"It’s very different tho in terms of FairPlay if anything the female going into male puts them at a big disadvantage whereas the other is the complete opposite. Did you see the story of the FtM boxer who won his first professional fight last week?" Awesome no but I guess that doesn’t make headline news | |||
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"As a running coach its totaly unfair " Your opinion educate yourself | |||
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"It’s very different tho in terms of FairPlay if anything the female going into male puts them at a big disadvantage whereas the other is the complete opposite. No it’s not I have friends who work for a lab I have friends who are at the leading forfort In development off new ways to test for steroids And they were test done on serton MMA athletes woman who had faild for synthetic testroin and bascule tured them selfs in to trans athlete and still competing in woman’s sports I am not talking about woman going over to mens sports I talking about the millions off woman athletes that are on gear and still being alowed to compete after words but have altered they body in way They are bascule trans athlete even though they were born woman People need to wake up and see If your saying trans athlete shouldn’t compete in woman’s sports Then any woman who has failed for steroids should be banned for life Yep I agree. But it is a different topic than the one being discussed. Yes and no it is but it isn’t because All the points are is the went though puburty they have stronger bone density and muscle fibres A woman on steroids is basically going though a man’s puberty So if the agreement hinged on that Then those woman all need to be banned for like as they are trans athletes " Except that athletes taking steroids is a subject that is allowed to be openly discussed. Trans people in sport - discussion is shut down. Or those who want to discuss are roundly told they're transphobic. So I think tbh it's a bit of a straw man argument. | |||
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"As a running coach its totaly unfair Your opinion educate yourself" How do you know it's not an educated opinion? | |||
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"It’s very different tho in terms of FairPlay if anything the female going into male puts them at a big disadvantage whereas the other is the complete opposite. No it’s not I have friends who work for a lab I have friends who are at the leading forfort In development off new ways to test for steroids And they were test done on serton MMA athletes woman who had faild for synthetic testroin and bascule tured them selfs in to trans athlete and still competing in woman’s sports I am not talking about woman going over to mens sports I talking about the millions off woman athletes that are on gear and still being alowed to compete after words but have altered they body in way They are bascule trans athlete even though they were born woman People need to wake up and see If your saying trans athlete shouldn’t compete in woman’s sports Then any woman who has failed for steroids should be banned for life Yep I agree. But it is a different topic than the one being discussed. Yes and no it is but it isn’t because All the points are is the went though puburty they have stronger bone density and muscle fibres A woman on steroids is basically going though a man’s puberty So if the agreement hinged on that Then those woman all need to be banned for like as they are trans athletes Except that athletes taking steroids is a subject that is allowed to be openly discussed. Trans people in sport - discussion is shut down. Or those who want to discuss are roundly told they're transphobic. So I think tbh it's a bit of a straw man argument. " It’s the way I see the way it’s going and how people out cry about how they have this that and next thing because they went through puberty as a man But not a single one can awner the question why is there no out cry for woman athletes that have done the exact same thing by useing steroids Yes they got a ban yes they not on steroids now But they have altered they body’s to the same extent as what a trans athlete would be But I never see a outcry for them to be banned And this problem is wide spread and very very big So hop on the gear get cought take a years ban come back and basically have the same structure as a trans athlete But as I sed there’s no out cry for them to be banned for life So then how can people blindly say trans athlete should be banned for life When they only maybe 30-40 if that But there’s millions off woman athlete who were born woman Who have turned them selfs in to trans athlete and no one bats a eye lid at them still competing in woman’s sports | |||
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"As a running coach its totaly unfair Your opinion educate yourself How do you know it's not an educated opinion?" because I’m a trans woman and I’ve educated myself the science | |||
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"It’s very different tho in terms of FairPlay if anything the female going into male puts them at a big disadvantage whereas the other is the complete opposite. No it’s not I have friends who work for a lab I have friends who are at the leading forfort In development off new ways to test for steroids And they were test done on serton MMA athletes woman who had faild for synthetic testroin and bascule tured them selfs in to trans athlete and still competing in woman’s sports I am not talking about woman going over to mens sports I talking about the millions off woman athletes that are on gear and still being alowed to compete after words but have altered they body in way They are bascule trans athlete even though they were born woman People need to wake up and see If your saying trans athlete shouldn’t compete in woman’s sports Then any woman who has failed for steroids should be banned for life Yep I agree. But it is a different topic than the one being discussed. Yes and no it is but it isn’t because All the points are is the went though puburty they have stronger bone density and muscle fibres A woman on steroids is basically going though a man’s puberty So if the agreement hinged on that Then those woman all need to be banned for like as they are trans athletes Except that athletes taking steroids is a subject that is allowed to be openly discussed. Trans people in sport - discussion is shut down. Or those who want to discuss are roundly told they're transphobic. So I think tbh it's a bit of a straw man argument. It’s the way I see the way it’s going and how people out cry about how they have this that and next thing because they went through puberty as a man But not a single one can awner the question why is there no out cry for woman athletes that have done the exact same thing by useing steroids Yes they got a ban yes they not on steroids now But they have altered they body’s to the same extent as what a trans athlete would be But I never see a outcry for them to be banned And this problem is wide spread and very very big So hop on the gear get cought take a years ban come back and basically have the same structure as a trans athlete But as I sed there’s no out cry for them to be banned for life So then how can people blindly say trans athlete should be banned for life When they only maybe 30-40 if that But there’s millions off woman athlete who were born woman Who have turned them selfs in to trans athlete and no one bats a eye lid at them still competing in woman’s sports " Valieva attracted a huge amount of news attention just recently. What percentage of female athletes take steroids when the drug tests are very vigilant to pick up use? You're saying there's no outcry but every time an athlete is found to have taken steroids - there is general condemnation. I think referring to women who take steroids as turning themselves trans seems really bad wording. Most people who have discussed this issue of trans athletes haven't advocated a wholesale ban at all. They want more discussion and more data. That's what I want. | |||
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"Is it fair that you have to be born tall to play basketball? There are so many advantages conferred on a very few by birth. Why is this not brought up as unfair? I don't get it I really don't." Google 'musty bogues'. | |||
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"As a running coach its totaly unfair Your opinion educate yourself How do you know it's not an educated opinion? because I’m a trans woman and I’ve educated myself the science" I know. But people can read the science and have different opinions about fairness - we were discussing this earlier. It's not just about HRT. | |||
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"Is it fair that you have to be born tall to play basketball? There are so many advantages conferred on a very few by birth. Why is this not brought up as unfair? I don't get it I really don't. Google 'musty bogues'. Muggsy bogues, sorry its Sunday. . . . " | |||
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"Yeah I doubt a cis woman would like her voice to drop and start growing face hair " ?? | |||
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"Do people think it's fair? Nope. Is there a satisfactory solution? Nope. There thread done x" There is though. Let them have their own category. If theres only 2 competetitors then so be it | |||
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"The toilet issue is another dog whistle. Transpeople have been using the toilets of their affirmed gender for decades largely without fuss. How so? I’ve hit genuine questions about it I don’t feel have been resolved. I don’t feel I’m dog whistling. So what genuine questions do you have about people using bathrooms? Well I need to know how it’s been “Resolved” first I wasn’t aware we had reached an answer yet so maybe I don’t have any questions? Cubicles. With locks. Turn all toilets unisex and put locks on the cubicles is the accepted answer? I mean that resolves it for me, I don’t care. " This is what the situation is at the university I work alongside and at the vast majority of student unions in the country now. Throughout the university, students of all genders and all backgrounds manage to use the cubicles and not get their undies in a flap | |||
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"Can’t even believe it’s a debate . To me it’s a total no brainier and not fair what so ever for the other female athletes. Can I ask then should woman who are born woman who have failed for testroin Be banned for life I can name 10-15 right now whare is the out cry " There's an outcry. A couple of Indian athletes were prevented from competing and we all know about Caster Semenya... | |||
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"Yeah I doubt a cis woman would like her voice to drop and start growing face hair ??" that happens pretty quickly with high T and it’s irreversible without huge intervention | |||
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"Just to win a running race ^^" People take drugs all the time to win running races... | |||
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"As a running coach its totaly unfair Your opinion educate yourself How do you know it's not an educated opinion? because I’m a trans woman and I’ve educated myself the science I know. But people can read the science and have different opinions about fairness - we were discussing this earlier. It's not just about HRT. " But there are studies that suggest that continuous administration of HRT has beneficial effects on muscle performance, muscle mass and muscle composition in early post-menopausal women. So there maybe a sporting advantage to being on HRT Vs not, we don't know. It's an emerging science and we don't have all the answers yet. Unfortunately,it will take time to have a definitive scientific answer to it all. | |||
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"It’s very different tho in terms of FairPlay if anything the female going into male puts them at a big disadvantage whereas the other is the complete opposite. No it’s not I have friends who work for a lab I have friends who are at the leading forfort In development off new ways to test for steroids And they were test done on serton MMA athletes woman who had faild for synthetic testroin and bascule tured them selfs in to trans athlete and still competing in woman’s sports I am not talking about woman going over to mens sports I talking about the millions off woman athletes that are on gear and still being alowed to compete after words but have altered they body in way They are bascule trans athlete even though they were born woman People need to wake up and see If your saying trans athlete shouldn’t compete in woman’s sports Then any woman who has failed for steroids should be banned for life Yep I agree. But it is a different topic than the one being discussed. Yes and no it is but it isn’t because All the points are is the went though puburty they have stronger bone density and muscle fibres A woman on steroids is basically going though a man’s puberty So if the agreement hinged on that Then those woman all need to be banned for like as they are trans athletes Except that athletes taking steroids is a subject that is allowed to be openly discussed. Trans people in sport - discussion is shut down. Or those who want to discuss are roundly told they're transphobic. So I think tbh it's a bit of a straw man argument. It’s the way I see the way it’s going and how people out cry about how they have this that and next thing because they went through puberty as a man But not a single one can awner the question why is there no out cry for woman athletes that have done the exact same thing by useing steroids Yes they got a ban yes they not on steroids now But they have altered they body’s to the same extent as what a trans athlete would be But I never see a outcry for them to be banned And this problem is wide spread and very very big So hop on the gear get cought take a years ban come back and basically have the same structure as a trans athlete But as I sed there’s no out cry for them to be banned for life So then how can people blindly say trans athlete should be banned for life When they only maybe 30-40 if that But there’s millions off woman athlete who were born woman Who have turned them selfs in to trans athlete and no one bats a eye lid at them still competing in woman’s sports Valieva attracted a huge amount of news attention just recently. What percentage of female athletes take steroids when the drug tests are very vigilant to pick up use? You're saying there's no outcry but every time an athlete is found to have taken steroids - there is general condemnation. I think referring to women who take steroids as turning themselves trans seems really bad wording. Most people who have discussed this issue of trans athletes haven't advocated a wholesale ban at all. They want more discussion and more data. That's what I want. " It’s not bad wording as the whole think is they have stronger muscle fabers and bone density Witch is exactly what happens to a woman when they take steroids they change them selfs to have the bone density off a man and muscle fibres off a man Witch is exactly why everyone is saying they shouldn’t compete so it’s a legitimate point If two athletes are within the levels allowed But ones a was a man at one point and went though man’s pubty and has the bone bone desty and muscle fiber stucksers there is out cry A woman athlete who has previously took steroids And a trans athlete who went though pubty as a man Will have the same bone dessty and muscle fiber structure as each other They one in the same Just because one was born a man and one was born a woman dose not make it different | |||
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"Yeah I doubt a cis woman would like her voice to drop and start growing face hair ?? that happens pretty quickly with high T and it’s irreversible without huge intervention " We can have facial hair when we have conditions such as PCOS and when we go through menopause. It is something a great deal of women have to contend with. Not saying it is worse than for trans women but it does happen to cis women. | |||
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"As a running coach its totaly unfair Your opinion educate yourself How do you know it's not an educated opinion? because I’m a trans woman and I’ve educated myself the science I know. But people can read the science and have different opinions about fairness - we were discussing this earlier. It's not just about HRT. But there are studies that suggest that continuous administration of HRT has beneficial effects on muscle performance, muscle mass and muscle composition in early post-menopausal women. So there maybe a sporting advantage to being on HRT Vs not, we don't know. It's an emerging science and we don't have all the answers yet. Unfortunately,it will take time to have a definitive scientific answer to it all. " trans-women don’t have to go through the iron deficiencies cis women do that’s for sure | |||
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"Yeah I doubt a cis woman would like her voice to drop and start growing face hair ?? that happens pretty quickly with high T and it’s irreversible without huge intervention We can have facial hair when we have conditions such as PCOS and when we go through menopause. It is something a great deal of women have to contend with. Not saying it is worse than for trans women but it does happen to cis women. " yeah but it’s nothing like having male hormone range testosterone coursing through your system x | |||
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"The toilet issue is another dog whistle. Transpeople have been using the toilets of their affirmed gender for decades largely without fuss. How so? I’ve hit genuine questions about it I don’t feel have been resolved. I don’t feel I’m dog whistling. So what genuine questions do you have about people using bathrooms? Well I need to know how it’s been “Resolved” first I wasn’t aware we had reached an answer yet so maybe I don’t have any questions? Cubicles. With locks. Turn all toilets unisex and put locks on the cubicles is the accepted answer? I mean that resolves it for me, I don’t care. This is what the situation is at the university I work alongside and at the vast majority of student unions in the country now. Throughout the university, students of all genders and all backgrounds manage to use the cubicles and not get their undies in a flap "Yet data shows that unisex toilets can be bad for women and girls. (Nothing to do with trans people - let me be very clear on that). https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/sexual-assault-unisex-changing-rooms-sunday-times-women-risk-a8519086.html | |||
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"As a running coach its totaly unfair Your opinion educate yourself How do you know it's not an educated opinion? because I’m a trans woman and I’ve educated myself the science I know. But people can read the science and have different opinions about fairness - we were discussing this earlier. It's not just about HRT. But there are studies that suggest that continuous administration of HRT has beneficial effects on muscle performance, muscle mass and muscle composition in early post-menopausal women. So there maybe a sporting advantage to being on HRT Vs not, we don't know. It's an emerging science and we don't have all the answers yet. Unfortunately,it will take time to have a definitive scientific answer to it all. " It’s done and out there the leading forfort off all steroids related things is the ufc They done test on cris cyborg a woman Who was and probably still is a very know steroids cheat The concussion was she’s has the bone dessty and muscle fibres off a man It’s out there | |||
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"It’s very different tho in terms of FairPlay if anything the female going into male puts them at a big disadvantage whereas the other is the complete opposite. No it’s not I have friends who work for a lab I have friends who are at the leading forfort In development off new ways to test for steroids And they were test done on serton MMA athletes woman who had faild for synthetic testroin and bascule tured them selfs in to trans athlete and still competing in woman’s sports I am not talking about woman going over to mens sports I talking about the millions off woman athletes that are on gear and still being alowed to compete after words but have altered they body in way They are bascule trans athlete even though they were born woman People need to wake up and see If your saying trans athlete shouldn’t compete in woman’s sports Then any woman who has failed for steroids should be banned for life Yep I agree. But it is a different topic than the one being discussed. Yes and no it is but it isn’t because All the points are is the went though puburty they have stronger bone density and muscle fibres A woman on steroids is basically going though a man’s puberty So if the agreement hinged on that Then those woman all need to be banned for like as they are trans athletes Except that athletes taking steroids is a subject that is allowed to be openly discussed. Trans people in sport - discussion is shut down. Or those who want to discuss are roundly told they're transphobic. So I think tbh it's a bit of a straw man argument. It’s the way I see the way it’s going and how people out cry about how they have this that and next thing because they went through puberty as a man But not a single one can awner the question why is there no out cry for woman athletes that have done the exact same thing by useing steroids Yes they got a ban yes they not on steroids now But they have altered they body’s to the same extent as what a trans athlete would be But I never see a outcry for them to be banned And this problem is wide spread and very very big So hop on the gear get cought take a years ban come back and basically have the same structure as a trans athlete But as I sed there’s no out cry for them to be banned for life So then how can people blindly say trans athlete should be banned for life When they only maybe 30-40 if that But there’s millions off woman athlete who were born woman Who have turned them selfs in to trans athlete and no one bats a eye lid at them still competing in woman’s sports Valieva attracted a huge amount of news attention just recently. What percentage of female athletes take steroids when the drug tests are very vigilant to pick up use? You're saying there's no outcry but every time an athlete is found to have taken steroids - there is general condemnation. I think referring to women who take steroids as turning themselves trans seems really bad wording. Most people who have discussed this issue of trans athletes haven't advocated a wholesale ban at all. They want more discussion and more data. That's what I want. It’s not bad wording as the whole think is they have stronger muscle fabers and bone density Witch is exactly what happens to a woman when they take steroids they change them selfs to have the bone density off a man and muscle fibres off a man Witch is exactly why everyone is saying they shouldn’t compete so it’s a legitimate point If two athletes are within the levels allowed But ones a was a man at one point and went though man’s pubty and has the bone bone desty and muscle fiber stucksers there is out cry A woman athlete who has previously took steroids And a trans athlete who went though pubty as a man Will have the same bone dessty and muscle fiber structure as each other They one in the same Just because one was born a man and one was born a woman dose not make it different " Well it does if we are talking about women's sport. | |||
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"Yeah I doubt a cis woman would like her voice to drop and start growing face hair ?? that happens pretty quickly with high T and it’s irreversible without huge intervention We can have facial hair when we have conditions such as PCOS and when we go through menopause. It is something a great deal of women have to contend with. Not saying it is worse than for trans women but it does happen to cis women. yeah but it’s nothing like having male hormone range testosterone coursing through your system x" PCOS is caused by excess male hormones hence the hirsutism and fertility problems. Also more male patter weight gain as in round the stomach instead of thigh and hips. | |||
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"As a running coach its totaly unfair Your opinion educate yourself How do you know it's not an educated opinion? because I’m a trans woman and I’ve educated myself the science I know. But people can read the science and have different opinions about fairness - we were discussing this earlier. It's not just about HRT. But there are studies that suggest that continuous administration of HRT has beneficial effects on muscle performance, muscle mass and muscle composition in early post-menopausal women. So there maybe a sporting advantage to being on HRT Vs not, we don't know. It's an emerging science and we don't have all the answers yet. Unfortunately,it will take time to have a definitive scientific answer to it all. trans-women don’t have to go through the iron deficiencies cis women do that’s for sure " That's very true hormonal cycles does impact on effectiveness to train. Was reading an interesting article on the pelvic floor of female athletes especially gymnasts. There will be advantages and disadvantages. But then I'm a short arse I was never going to be a high jumper due to my genetics. It's a hard debate but hopefully more scientific research will lead to better answers to questions. | |||
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"The toilet issue is another dog whistle. Transpeople have been using the toilets of their affirmed gender for decades largely without fuss. How so? I’ve hit genuine questions about it I don’t feel have been resolved. I don’t feel I’m dog whistling. So what genuine questions do you have about people using bathrooms? Well I need to know how it’s been “Resolved” first I wasn’t aware we had reached an answer yet so maybe I don’t have any questions? Cubicles. With locks. Turn all toilets unisex and put locks on the cubicles is the accepted answer? I mean that resolves it for me, I don’t care. This is what the situation is at the university I work alongside and at the vast majority of student unions in the country now. Throughout the university, students of all genders and all backgrounds manage to use the cubicles and not get their undies in a flap
Yet data shows that unisex toilets can be bad for women and girls. (Nothing to do with trans people - let me be very clear on that).
https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/sexual-assault-unisex-changing-rooms-sunday-times-women-risk-a8519086.html"Yeah there’s always gonna be bad apples waiting to exploit the situation | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The toilet issue is another dog whistle. Transpeople have been using the toilets of their affirmed gender for decades largely without fuss. So it's all over the news.. If anyone dare mention the toilet issue it is usually met with derision .. How so? I’ve hit genuine questions about it I don’t feel have been resolved. I don’t feel I’m dog whistling. So what genuine questions do you have about people using bathrooms? Well I need to know how it’s been “Resolved” first I wasn’t aware we had reached an answer yet so maybe I don’t have any questions? Cubicles. With locks. Turn all toilets unisex and put locks on the cubicles is the accepted answer? I mean that resolves it for me, I don’t care. This is what the situation is at the university I work alongside and at the vast majority of student unions in the country now. Throughout the university, students of all genders and all backgrounds manage to use the cubicles and not get their undies in a flap
Yet data shows that unisex toilets can be bad for women and girls. (Nothing to do with trans people - let me be very clear on that).
https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/sexual-assault-unisex-changing-rooms-sunday-times-women-risk-a8519086.html" | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"As a running coach its totaly unfair Your opinion educate yourself How do you know it's not an educated opinion? because I’m a trans woman and I’ve educated myself the science I know. But people can read the science and have different opinions about fairness - we were discussing this earlier. It's not just about HRT. But there are studies that suggest that continuous administration of HRT has beneficial effects on muscle performance, muscle mass and muscle composition in early post-menopausal women. So there maybe a sporting advantage to being on HRT Vs not, we don't know. It's an emerging science and we don't have all the answers yet. Unfortunately,it will take time to have a definitive scientific answer to it all. trans-women don’t have to go through the iron deficiencies cis women do that’s for sure That's very true hormonal cycles does impact on effectiveness to train. Was reading an interesting article on the pelvic floor of female athletes especially gymnasts. There will be advantages and disadvantages. But then I'm a short arse I was never going to be a high jumper due to my genetics. It's a hard debate but hopefully more scientific research will lead to better answers to questions. " I was naturally gifted at gymnastics when I was younger I used to train with the girls and I wished I was one of them dad made me play football | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The toilet issue is another dog whistle. Transpeople have been using the toilets of their affirmed gender for decades largely without fuss. How so? I’ve hit genuine questions about it I don’t feel have been resolved. I don’t feel I’m dog whistling. So what genuine questions do you have about people using bathrooms? Well I need to know how it’s been “Resolved” first I wasn’t aware we had reached an answer yet so maybe I don’t have any questions? Cubicles. With locks. Turn all toilets unisex and put locks on the cubicles is the accepted answer? I mean that resolves it for me, I don’t care. This is what the situation is at the university I work alongside and at the vast majority of student unions in the country now. Throughout the university, students of all genders and all backgrounds manage to use the cubicles and not get their undies in a flap
Yet data shows that unisex toilets can be bad for women and girls. (Nothing to do with trans people - let me be very clear on that).
https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/sexual-assault-unisex-changing-rooms-sunday-times-women-risk-a8519086.html Yeah there’s always gonna be bad apples waiting to exploit the situation"Afraid so. And that to my mind is why there is so much concern about self-ID. It's not trans people who are a danger, it's the bad apples taking advantage of new guidelines, self ID, changes in safe guarding. The level of sexual assaults taking place in schools is frightening. I would be against unisex toilets if they make those even more likely to happen. But as with most things - it's the detail. What the stalls are like. Where they're situated etc. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"It’s very different tho in terms of FairPlay if anything the female going into male puts them at a big disadvantage whereas the other is the complete opposite. No it’s not I have friends who work for a lab I have friends who are at the leading forfort In development off new ways to test for steroids And they were test done on serton MMA athletes woman who had faild for synthetic testroin and bascule tured them selfs in to trans athlete and still competing in woman’s sports I am not talking about woman going over to mens sports I talking about the millions off woman athletes that are on gear and still being alowed to compete after words but have altered they body in way They are bascule trans athlete even though they were born woman People need to wake up and see If your saying trans athlete shouldn’t compete in woman’s sports Then any woman who has failed for steroids should be banned for life Yep I agree. But it is a different topic than the one being discussed. Yes and no it is but it isn’t because All the points are is the went though puburty they have stronger bone density and muscle fibres A woman on steroids is basically going though a man’s puberty So if the agreement hinged on that Then those woman all need to be banned for like as they are trans athletes Except that athletes taking steroids is a subject that is allowed to be openly discussed. Trans people in sport - discussion is shut down. Or those who want to discuss are roundly told they're transphobic. So I think tbh it's a bit of a straw man argument. It’s the way I see the way it’s going and how people out cry about how they have this that and next thing because they went through puberty as a man But not a single one can awner the question why is there no out cry for woman athletes that have done the exact same thing by useing steroids Yes they got a ban yes they not on steroids now But they have altered they body’s to the same extent as what a trans athlete would be But I never see a outcry for them to be banned And this problem is wide spread and very very big So hop on the gear get cought take a years ban come back and basically have the same structure as a trans athlete But as I sed there’s no out cry for them to be banned for life So then how can people blindly say trans athlete should be banned for life When they only maybe 30-40 if that But there’s millions off woman athlete who were born woman Who have turned them selfs in to trans athlete and no one bats a eye lid at them still competing in woman’s sports Valieva attracted a huge amount of news attention just recently. What percentage of female athletes take steroids when the drug tests are very vigilant to pick up use? You're saying there's no outcry but every time an athlete is found to have taken steroids - there is general condemnation. I think referring to women who take steroids as turning themselves trans seems really bad wording. Most people who have discussed this issue of trans athletes haven't advocated a wholesale ban at all. They want more discussion and more data. That's what I want. It’s not bad wording as the whole think is they have stronger muscle fabers and bone density Witch is exactly what happens to a woman when they take steroids they change them selfs to have the bone density off a man and muscle fibres off a man Witch is exactly why everyone is saying they shouldn’t compete so it’s a legitimate point If two athletes are within the levels allowed But ones a was a man at one point and went though man’s pubty and has the bone bone desty and muscle fiber stucksers there is out cry A woman athlete who has previously took steroids And a trans athlete who went though pubty as a man Will have the same bone dessty and muscle fiber structure as each other They one in the same Just because one was born a man and one was born a woman dose not make it different Well it does if we are talking about women's sport. " I don’t think your getting my point I am talking about woman’s spots I know loads off woman athletes that have done this competing in woman’s spots that what no one’s getting Yous are all out crying about hand full Whare ever woman and they mother competing in woman’s spots at the highest level Have done the exact same | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The toilet issue is another dog whistle. Transpeople have been using the toilets of their affirmed gender for decades largely without fuss. How so? I’ve hit genuine questions about it I don’t feel have been resolved. I don’t feel I’m dog whistling. So what genuine questions do you have about people using bathrooms? Well I need to know how it’s been “Resolved” first I wasn’t aware we had reached an answer yet so maybe I don’t have any questions? Cubicles. With locks. Turn all toilets unisex and put locks on the cubicles is the accepted answer? I mean that resolves it for me, I don’t care. This is what the situation is at the university I work alongside and at the vast majority of student unions in the country now. Throughout the university, students of all genders and all backgrounds manage to use the cubicles and not get their undies in a flap
Yet data shows that unisex toilets can be bad for women and girls. (Nothing to do with trans people - let me be very clear on that).
https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/sexual-assault-unisex-changing-rooms-sunday-times-women-risk-a8519086.html"Do you think that if a man wants to assault a woman in some toilets, he will obey the sign on the door? Before I was a user of accessible toilets, I was always wary if I was the only person in the ladies loo. I was well aware that a nefarious person could choose to follow me inside and attack me. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The toilet issue is another dog whistle. Transpeople have been using the toilets of their affirmed gender for decades largely without fuss. How so? I’ve hit genuine questions about it I don’t feel have been resolved. I don’t feel I’m dog whistling. So what genuine questions do you have about people using bathrooms? Well I need to know how it’s been “Resolved” first I wasn’t aware we had reached an answer yet so maybe I don’t have any questions? Cubicles. With locks. Turn all toilets unisex and put locks on the cubicles is the accepted answer? I mean that resolves it for me, I don’t care. This is what the situation is at the university I work alongside and at the vast majority of student unions in the country now. Throughout the university, students of all genders and all backgrounds manage to use the cubicles and not get their undies in a flap
Yet data shows that unisex toilets can be bad for women and girls. (Nothing to do with trans people - let me be very clear on that).
https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/sexual-assault-unisex-changing-rooms-sunday-times-women-risk-a8519086.html
Do you think that if a man wants to assault a woman in some toilets, he will obey the sign on the door? Before I was a user of accessible toilets, I was always wary if I was the only person in the ladies loo. I was well aware that a nefarious person could choose to follow me inside and attack me. "Yeah, if the issue is male predators, it doesn't matter if they call themselves Bruce or Sheila. They're going to do what they're going to do. Let trans people pee. | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"It’s very different tho in terms of FairPlay if anything the female going into male puts them at a big disadvantage whereas the other is the complete opposite. No it’s not I have friends who work for a lab I have friends who are at the leading forfort In development off new ways to test for steroids And they were test done on serton MMA athletes woman who had faild for synthetic testroin and bascule tured them selfs in to trans athlete and still competing in woman’s sports I am not talking about woman going over to mens sports I talking about the millions off woman athletes that are on gear and still being alowed to compete after words but have altered they body in way They are bascule trans athlete even though they were born woman People need to wake up and see If your saying trans athlete shouldn’t compete in woman’s sports Then any woman who has failed for steroids should be banned for life Yep I agree. But it is a different topic than the one being discussed. Yes and no it is but it isn’t because All the points are is the went though puburty they have stronger bone density and muscle fibres A woman on steroids is basically going though a man’s puberty So if the agreement hinged on that Then those woman all need to be banned for like as they are trans athletes Except that athletes taking steroids is a subject that is allowed to be openly discussed. Trans people in sport - discussion is shut down. Or those who want to discuss are roundly told they're transphobic. So I think tbh it's a bit of a straw man argument. It’s the way I see the way it’s going and how people out cry about how they have this that and next thing because they went through puberty as a man But not a single one can awner the question why is there no out cry for woman athletes that have done the exact same thing by useing steroids Yes they got a ban yes they not on steroids now But they have altered they body’s to the same extent as what a trans athlete would be But I never see a outcry for them to be banned And this problem is wide spread and very very big So hop on the gear get cought take a years ban come back and basically have the same structure as a trans athlete But as I sed there’s no out cry for them to be banned for life So then how can people blindly say trans athlete should be banned for life When they only maybe 30-40 if that But there’s millions off woman athlete who were born woman Who have turned them selfs in to trans athlete and no one bats a eye lid at them still competing in woman’s sports Valieva attracted a huge amount of news attention just recently. What percentage of female athletes take steroids when the drug tests are very vigilant to pick up use? You're saying there's no outcry but every time an athlete is found to have taken steroids - there is general condemnation. I think referring to women who take steroids as turning themselves trans seems really bad wording. Most people who have discussed this issue of trans athletes haven't advocated a wholesale ban at all. They want more discussion and more data. That's what I want. It’s not bad wording as the whole think is they have stronger muscle fabers and bone density Witch is exactly what happens to a woman when they take steroids they change them selfs to have the bone density off a man and muscle fibres off a man Witch is exactly why everyone is saying they shouldn’t compete so it’s a legitimate point If two athletes are within the levels allowed But ones a was a man at one point and went though man’s pubty and has the bone bone desty and muscle fiber stucksers there is out cry A woman athlete who has previously took steroids And a trans athlete who went though pubty as a man Will have the same bone dessty and muscle fiber structure as each other They one in the same Just because one was born a man and one was born a woman dose not make it different Well it does if we are talking about women's sport. I don’t think your getting my point I am talking about woman’s spots I know loads off woman athletes that have done this competing in woman’s spots that what no one’s getting Yous are all out crying about hand full Whare ever woman and they mother competing in woman’s spots at the highest level Have done the exact same " I agree with you that it's very wrong. Athletes shouldn't take drugs which enhance their performance. I don't see what else I can say. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The toilet issue is another dog whistle. Transpeople have been using the toilets of their affirmed gender for decades largely without fuss. How so? I’ve hit genuine questions about it I don’t feel have been resolved. I don’t feel I’m dog whistling. So what genuine questions do you have about people using bathrooms? Well I need to know how it’s been “Resolved” first I wasn’t aware we had reached an answer yet so maybe I don’t have any questions? Cubicles. With locks. Turn all toilets unisex and put locks on the cubicles is the accepted answer? I mean that resolves it for me, I don’t care. This is what the situation is at the university I work alongside and at the vast majority of student unions in the country now. Throughout the university, students of all genders and all backgrounds manage to use the cubicles and not get their undies in a flap
Yet data shows that unisex toilets can be bad for women and girls. (Nothing to do with trans people - let me be very clear on that).
https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/sexual-assault-unisex-changing-rooms-sunday-times-women-risk-a8519086.html Yeah there’s always gonna be bad apples waiting to exploit the situation
Afraid so. And that to my mind is why there is so much concern about self-ID. It's not trans people who are a danger, it's the bad apples taking advantage of new guidelines, self ID, changes in safe guarding. The level of sexual assaults taking place in schools is frightening. I would be against unisex toilets if they make those even more likely to happen. But as with most things - it's the detail. What the stalls are like. Where they're situated etc. "yes some ground rules need to be applied the government really need to sort out the GIC system in England and Wales and Scotland it’s an awful situation I seem more interested in resolving the GRC issues than dealing with the root cause | |||
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