FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Smacking Ban in Wales
Smacking Ban in Wales
Jump to: Newest in thread
 |
By *ssex_tom OP Man
over a year ago
Chelmsford |
It is now illegal to smack a child in Wales. What about the small settlements in Wales/England border where one pub on one side of town was shut because of Covid lockdown and another on the other side of town was open. Will this lead to confusion? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
" It depends if you lean out the window across the street, in order to slap someone on the other side of the road."
I'm imaging kids running to one side of the border thumbing their nose at angry parents. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
" It depends if you lean out the window across the street, in order to slap someone on the other side of the road.
I'm imaging kids running to one side of the border thumbing their nose at angry parents."
Haha
Epitome of 'wait until you get home' |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I wonder why we need legislation to tell adults not to physically harm their own children  "
Very true. There seems to be a contingent of people who believe it's just parental chastisement,and context is needed for the severity of the smack.
Maybe? But if everytime you messed up in work, someone slapped you lightly across the head or on the buttocks ( Forrest Gump accent optional), how would you feel?
Why teach children that this is acceptable. It's heavily outdated. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I wonder why we need legislation to tell adults not to physically harm their own children
Very true. There seems to be a contingent of people who believe it's just parental chastisement,and context is needed for the severity of the smack.
Maybe? But if everytime you messed up in work, someone slapped you lightly across the head or on the buttocks ( Forrest Gump accent optional), how would you feel?
Why teach children that this is acceptable. It's heavily outdated."
There's always the "never did me any harm" brigade. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Oh and it's been illegal for an adult to hit another adult for a long time. Seems pretty messed up priorities to me"
Absolutely. It's even recognised that chastisement of dogs in Training is ineffective these days.
Praise of positive behaviour, boundaries and consistency. A child's brain isn't fully developed, smacking has adverse impacts. To be quite honest it's some of the parents who need support with parenting skills. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *for2Man
over a year ago
Bristol |
"I wonder why we need legislation to tell adults not to physically harm their own children
I was just going to post exactly this!"
Naughty step, taking away privileges or consoles etc always worked. Physical punishment is just another term for abuse. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
It's sad that anyone would think it's appropriate to smack or that smacking would ever have any long lasting positive effect. As many already said, children are like sponges and absorb and influenced by behaviour from all around them. Good parenting skills, positive role models and reinforcement of good behaviour is what children need.
I was out yesterday and witnessed a group of kids kicking every object that they could see in front of them, shouting and screaming and laughing at passers by including elderly folk some of who looked a bit worried. That is also sad that kids at that age don't know right from wrong or how to respect others wherever they might be. So many disputes these is about kids making the life of other people a misery with their unruly behaviour and often with their parents' passive consent. In general there is a lack of respect for others around and mainly from adults which is learned by young and impressionable children.
Smacking though is not only unacceptable but is never the answer either. Addressing the route of the problem is. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *aitonelMan
over a year ago
Liverpool |
"Oh and it's been illegal for an adult to hit another adult for a long time. Seems pretty messed up priorities to me
Absolutely. It's even recognised that chastisement of dogs in Training is ineffective these days."
In some cases. Not all. Positive only training does fuck all for true aggression cases. Thousands of agreasive dogs are put to sleep needlessly because positive reinforced training has failed them, and balanced training has been turned away because of ignorance for what it is. A friend of mine has saved the lives of many aggressive dogs by using balanced methods. Dogs that are now cared for in loving family homes. Far better behaved than 99% of the "fur babies" running around out there.
Corrections are critical for dog training, especially specific breeds that are strong willed and breed for very specific purposes.
Don't confuse balanced training with abuse training though.
Balanced is corrections and rewards.
Problem is "self taught" trainers assume they know what they are doing and mess it up, being more abusive than the training is. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
Totally agree with the new law though I thought it was already in place to be honest. Don't understand why we are always the first for the laws though paying for carrier bags, 50p a unit for alcohol and now the smacking ban are we the UK guinea pigs  . |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *l6789Man
over a year ago
croydon |
"It is now illegal to smack a child in Wales. What about the small settlements in Wales/England border where one pub on one side of town was shut because of Covid lockdown and another on the other side of town was open. Will this lead to confusion? "
Does this include ddlg relationships because no spanking could be a real issue |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I wonder why we need legislation to tell adults not to physically harm their own children "
The outrage over the law and how it will apparently lead to a society of reprobates is kind of disturbing. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I had a few short sharp shocks as a youngester (smack bottom). As I got older it was sent to bed and being grounded which hurt the most though. Specially when mates called round for me."
Absolutely. I hated being grounded. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
Why teach children that this is acceptable. It's heavily outdated.
There's always the "never did me any harm" brigade.
Not sure you can dismiss all previous generations as a 'brigade'."
I don't believe that all previous generations feel it didn't do them any harm. My grandparents and parents are very critical of the physical abuse they received at the hands of step parents and teachers when they were young. My dad went to a school where most of the teachers were ex military and they were vicious. Apparently a group came back and beat up one of the teachers who was particularly violent after they finished school. Doesn't sound like a healthy environment at all. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Oh and it's been illegal for an adult to hit another adult for a long time. Seems pretty messed up priorities to me"
But due to the police doing not a lot about it, people take things too far to get revenge on them. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I wonder why we need legislation to tell adults not to physically harm their own children
Very true. There seems to be a contingent of people who believe it's just parental chastisement,and context is needed for the severity of the smack.
Maybe? But if everytime you messed up in work, someone slapped you lightly across the head or on the buttocks ( Forrest Gump accent optional), how would you feel?
Why teach children that this is acceptable. It's heavily outdated."
I totally agree that there is no place for smacking kids but this argument is illogical. You wouldn't expect your boss to make aeroplane noises with a spoon to encourage you to eat if you said you didn't feel like dinner either. The way we treat adults and children is very different for a variety of reasons and in many many circumstances. The argument that we don't do x with adults so shouldn't with children is inconsistent and irrelevant. Not smacking kids is an argument that stands on its own merits and needs no comparisons to justify it.
Mr |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
I was hit as a child and hated it. Seemed like every time an adult, Mother, Father or Teacher lost control they had a right to inflict pain on me.
So what did I do to deserve it…
Broke a glass also a decorative soldier ornament, being noisy, not cleaning my bedroom, answering back in class, late a few times. But the last one …ironically fighting with a mate in the school playground.
Still get some chills when someone shouts out of the blue at someone else.
The only good that ever came out of it was in the Army during basic training. You always knew (admittedly you did get beasted once in awhile) the shouting and abuse was controlled, so it wasn’t as bad as home.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I wonder why we need legislation to tell adults not to physically harm their own children "
Quite so. I never laid a hand on mine and it was not negotiable that my husband of the time could either. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
Why teach children that this is acceptable. It's heavily outdated.
There's always the "never did me any harm" brigade.
Not sure you can dismiss all previous generations as a 'brigade'."
I don't think I have. Not all previous generations believe that being physically punished as a child did them no harm. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *batMan
over a year ago
Alicante, Spain. (Sometimes in Wales) |
"It is now illegal to smack a child in Wales. What about the small settlements in Wales/England border where one pub on one side of town was shut because of Covid lockdown and another on the other side of town was open. Will this lead to confusion? "
What's happened on the Scottish English border, where this is not a new thing? This is effectively an "old news" thread really.
Gbat |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I wonder why we need legislation to tell adults not to physically harm their own children
Very true. There seems to be a contingent of people who believe it's just parental chastisement,and context is needed for the severity of the smack.
Maybe? But if everytime you messed up in work, someone slapped you lightly across the head or on the buttocks ( Forrest Gump accent optional), how would you feel?
Why teach children that this is acceptable. It's heavily outdated."
Yeah and so are respect and manners of course |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
Why teach children that this is acceptable. It's heavily outdated.
There's always the "never did me any harm" brigade.
Not sure you can dismiss all previous generations as a 'brigade'.
I don't think I have. Not all previous generations believe that being physically punished as a child did them no harm."
The problem is that there was a big difference in the bad old days between a caring mum giving a child a relatively light but nevertheless alerting smack on the bottom and a whipping or caning from some lying sadist who said "This hurts me far more tan it will hurt you".
I endured the latter during my schooldays and it didn't do me a lot of good (luckily it didn't encourage me to join their ranks subsequently). However, I can't say that a well deserved smacked bottom from my mother didn't teach me quickly where the behavioural boundaries in the home were.
Behavioural boundaries at school were confused by the profusion of confusing cultures which existed including the influence of an interest or not in sport, gangs, bullying, cliques, peer pressure to misbehave versus the desire to learn or be considered a swot.
This a complex subject with no easy solutions. Steps in the right direction are likely to be welcomed by all reasonable people but nevertheless need thinking through very carefully. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ssex_tom OP Man
over a year ago
Chelmsford |
"It is now illegal to smack a child in Wales. What about the small settlements in Wales/England border where one pub on one side of town was shut because of Covid lockdown and another on the other side of town was open. Will this lead to confusion?
What's happened on the Scottish English border, where this is not a new thing? This is effectively an "old news" thread really.
Gbat "
The old border was Hadrians Wall. Does that divide Newcastle ? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Think this should have been law a long time ago, my dad kicked the crap out of me"
Do you think it would have stopped him if it was illegal?
My grandad was a violent man I don't think it would have stopped him. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Think this should have been law a long time ago, my dad kicked the crap out of me
Do you think it would have stopped him if it was illegal?
My grandad was a violent man I don't think it would have stopped him."
Probably not in my case, but he wouldn't have been able to hide behind the fact he was "discipling" me. So people could turn a blind eye easier. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Think this should have been law a long time ago, my dad kicked the crap out of me
Do you think it would have stopped him if it was illegal?
My grandad was a violent man I don't think it would have stopped him."
No it probably wouldn't have as he knew I'd just take it but it would have stopped some other kids getting beaten by their parents I think |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Think this should have been law a long time ago, my dad kicked the crap out of me
Do you think it would have stopped him if it was illegal?
My grandad was a violent man I don't think it would have stopped him.
Probably not in my case, but he wouldn't have been able to hide behind the fact he was "discipling" me. So people could turn a blind eye easier. "
And it would have actually made it easier for me as a child to understand what he was doing was wrong. It's hard to understand that a smack is very different to a beating when you are little. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Think this should have been law a long time ago, my dad kicked the crap out of me
Do you think it would have stopped him if it was illegal?
My grandad was a violent man I don't think it would have stopped him.
Probably not in my case, but he wouldn't have been able to hide behind the fact he was "discipling" me. So people could turn a blind eye easier.
And it would have actually made it easier for me as a child to understand what he was doing was wrong. It's hard to understand that a smack is very different to a beating when you are little. "
Definitely agree with you |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
This won't change things. Look at how many lessons learnt since children have died, been taken into care due to neglect etc, it keeps happening. It gets ignored. On the other hand it now opens up potentially much more false accusations from vindictive parents using children as pawn against each other.   |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *arry247Couple
over a year ago
Wakefield |
I think the law as it stands in England is sufficient.
I remember when I was in school in Scotland during the 1950s & 60s, the law allowed corporal punishment and the school also allowed written punishment lines.
Teachers used to give the boys the belt (strap across the hand) or line but the girl could only be given lines.
This caused complaints, the girl wanted to be given the belt because the belt lasted about 5 minutes at the most but writing 50 or 100 lines took between half an hour to an hour or longer and also induced very painful writer’s cramp in the hand. I should also add we used to have a teacher who would use lines as punishment, however he insisted that each alternate letter was in a different colour of ink (e.g. blue, red, blue, red) you can imagine how long that took to write out.
Also I have a personal memory of my own experience of corporal punishment in the home, my brothers, sister and I were brought up by my mother, we all respected her and she never used to smack us except for one day when I was about 13 or 14, I was doing something I cannot remember what but I persisted doing it after repeated warning to stop doing what I was doing. My mother final said if you do not stop, I will whip you (we used to ride and had a number of riding crops and a whip. I could tell she was serious about her threat, even though I had not been hit before but I knew my mother would keep her word. I repeated what I was doing and she took the whip from the hall and struck me across the back of my legs.
Did this have a lasting effect on me, yes, but not what many may think, rather than feeling abused or hard done by, I felt very ashamed that I had forced my mother to punish me in this way. I knew doing it hurt her more than it hurt me and that was my fault and it made me value my mother more.
I understand there is a time and a place for corporal punishment and nothing will convince me otherwise.
What I do think is wrong is when a parent or anyone hits out in temper because they have lost control, that is when harm is done.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
My Grandad was hit often as a child. He was beasted in the Army later on. He never advocated any form of physical chastisement on children because he knew it was completely inappropriate and counterintuitive. The more my Grandad was caned for skipping school, the more he skipped school and the less he learned. He joined the Army at 14 instead.
Plenty of older people were traumatised by the way they were hit, smacked, beaten as children.
It's completely unnecessary and unacceptable to hit a child, no matter the reason or how "hard" you do it. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *avie65Man
over a year ago
In the west. |
"Been banned in Scotland for years "
I was a regular attender at the front of the class for the belt. There is no way it should ever be brought back. It wasn't even of it's time, it was just violence advocated by the school, local council and the government. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *batMan
over a year ago
Alicante, Spain. (Sometimes in Wales) |
"What's happened on the Scottish English border, where this is not a new thing? This is effectively an "old news" thread really.
Gbat
The old border was Hadrians Wall. Does that divide Newcastle ?"
Classic deflection. Have you thought about standing for a political position?
Gbat |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"What's happened on the Scottish English border, where this is not a new thing? This is effectively an "old news" thread really.
Gbat
The old border was Hadrians Wall. Does that divide Newcastle ?
Classic deflection. Have you thought about standing for a political position?
Gbat "
Don't give him ideas |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"My Grandad was hit often as a child. He was beasted in the Army later on. He never advocated any form of physical chastisement on children because he knew it was completely inappropriate and counterintuitive. The more my Grandad was caned for skipping school, the more he skipped school and the less he learned. He joined the Army at 14 instead.
Plenty of older people were traumatised by the way they were hit, smacked, beaten as children.
It's completely unnecessary and unacceptable to hit a child, no matter the reason or how "hard" you do it. "
I agree and I've never understood how if I slapped the back of an adults legs because I didn't like what they said or did, or someone else's child it's assault but if I did it to my own child it isn't. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ssex_tom OP Man
over a year ago
Chelmsford |
"What's happened on the Scottish English border, where this is not a new thing? This is effectively an "old news" thread really.
Gbat
The old border was Hadrians Wall. Does that divide Newcastle ?
Classic deflection. Have you thought about standing for a political position?
Gbat
Don't give him ideas "
Now that's an idea...
 |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Damn I'll have to stop taking my kids to wales for a good beating. Normally write a list of things they've done to piss me off, then every 6 months or so, take them there for a good thrashing. Now what am I gonna do?  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
Glad it's done. Violence has no place in the home. Slapping is just lazy parenting where you can't or won't take the time to share and explain the reasons not to do something.
Wish they could do the same with people who shout at their kids all the time. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ost SockMan
over a year ago
West Wales and Cardiff |
"It is now illegal to smack a child in Wales. What about the small settlements in Wales/England border where one pub on one side of town was shut because of Covid lockdown and another on the other side of town was open. Will this lead to confusion? "
Overall, they’ll probably figure it out, just as settlements on/straddling borders manage the world over.
We couldn’t really have a situation where a law seen as beneficial to a country couldn’t be brought in because it might cause a bit of head-scratching along a border. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *a LunaWoman
over a year ago
South Wales |
"Its 2022 and its took them this long to decide its wrong!!!!!  "
Scotland only banned outright in 2020.
I believe in England and Northern Ireland it is illegal for a parent or carer to smack their own child unless it amounts to “reasonable punishment”, so they’ve not banned it outright (yet). I may be wrong though.
And whilst Wales may be late in getting on board, it’s better late than never. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Its 2022 and its took them this long to decide its wrong!!!!!
Scotland only banned outright in 2020.
I believe in England and Northern Ireland it is illegal for a parent or carer to smack their own child unless it amounts to “reasonable punishment”, so they’ve not banned it outright (yet). I may be wrong though.
And whilst Wales may be late in getting on board, it’s better late than never."
Reasonable punishment  . I wonder if some people sat in a room and listed these reasonable punishments and the misdemeanours they should be applied to or are they leaving it up to individual courts to decide. Maybe there's a handy guide somewhere so that unwary parents don't dish out one more hit than is legally allowed.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *a LunaWoman
over a year ago
South Wales |
"Its 2022 and its took them this long to decide its wrong!!!!!
Scotland only banned outright in 2020.
I believe in England and Northern Ireland it is illegal for a parent or carer to smack their own child unless it amounts to “reasonable punishment”, so they’ve not banned it outright (yet). I may be wrong though.
And whilst Wales may be late in getting on board, it’s better late than never.
Reasonable punishment . I wonder if some people sat in a room and listed these reasonable punishments and the misdemeanours they should be applied to or are they leaving it up to individual courts to decide. Maybe there's a handy guide somewhere so that unwary parents don't dish out one more hit than is legally allowed.
"
I dread to think. I mean you’d like to hope there wouldn’t be a list somewhere, but these days nothing would surprise me when it comes to the law. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Its 2022 and its took them this long to decide its wrong!!!!!
Scotland only banned outright in 2020.
I believe in England and Northern Ireland it is illegal for a parent or carer to smack their own child unless it amounts to “reasonable punishment”, so they’ve not banned it outright (yet). I may be wrong though.
And whilst Wales may be late in getting on board, it’s better late than never.
Reasonable punishment . I wonder if some people sat in a room and listed these reasonable punishments and the misdemeanours they should be applied to or are they leaving it up to individual courts to decide. Maybe there's a handy guide somewhere so that unwary parents don't dish out one more hit than is legally allowed.
I dread to think. I mean you’d like to hope there wouldn’t be a list somewhere, but these days nothing would surprise me when it comes to the law."
I find it surreal and bizarre that people would actually think that it's ok to use the word reasonable when talking about physically punishing a child.
"Ok Fred that's you've hit him a reasonable amount you can stop now" . It's bonkers. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Its 2022 and its took them this long to decide its wrong!!!!!
Scotland only banned outright in 2020.
I believe in England and Northern Ireland it is illegal for a parent or carer to smack their own child unless it amounts to “reasonable punishment”, so they’ve not banned it outright (yet). I may be wrong though.
And whilst Wales may be late in getting on board, it’s better late than never.
Reasonable punishment . I wonder if some people sat in a room and listed these reasonable punishments and the misdemeanours they should be applied to or are they leaving it up to individual courts to decide. Maybe there's a handy guide somewhere so that unwary parents don't dish out one more hit than is legally allowed.
I dread to think. I mean you’d like to hope there wouldn’t be a list somewhere, but these days nothing would surprise me when it comes to the law."
Think when it came into Wales, it was something along the lines of the kind of mark that was left after the hit. I mean seriously what on earth |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Its 2022 and its took them this long to decide its wrong!!!!!
Scotland only banned outright in 2020.
I believe in England and Northern Ireland it is illegal for a parent or carer to smack their own child unless it amounts to “reasonable punishment”, so they’ve not banned it outright (yet). I may be wrong though.
And whilst Wales may be late in getting on board, it’s better late than never.
Reasonable punishment . I wonder if some people sat in a room and listed these reasonable punishments and the misdemeanours they should be applied to or are they leaving it up to individual courts to decide. Maybe there's a handy guide somewhere so that unwary parents don't dish out one more hit than is legally allowed.
I dread to think. I mean you’d like to hope there wouldn’t be a list somewhere, but these days nothing would surprise me when it comes to the law.
Think when it came into Wales, it was something along the lines of the kind of mark that was left after the hit. I mean seriously what on earth "
Jesus Christ! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Its 2022 and its took them this long to decide its wrong!!!!!
Scotland only banned outright in 2020.
I believe in England and Northern Ireland it is illegal for a parent or carer to smack their own child unless it amounts to “reasonable punishment”, so they’ve not banned it outright (yet). I may be wrong though.
And whilst Wales may be late in getting on board, it’s better late than never.
Reasonable punishment . I wonder if some people sat in a room and listed these reasonable punishments and the misdemeanours they should be applied to or are they leaving it up to individual courts to decide. Maybe there's a handy guide somewhere so that unwary parents don't dish out one more hit than is legally allowed.
I dread to think. I mean you’d like to hope there wouldn’t be a list somewhere, but these days nothing would surprise me when it comes to the law.
Think when it came into Wales, it was something along the lines of the kind of mark that was left after the hit. I mean seriously what on earth
Jesus Christ! "
Whilst absolutely against corporal punishment, there has to be *some* definition. If a child reaches for a cup of tea on a table, stick a fork in a plug socket or run into a road you may act fast to push their hand/body away with your hand. A smack to me is leaving a mark or intending the action to cause pain or distress. The purpose and intent are more important than the action, but they could look identical |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ssex_tom OP Man
over a year ago
Chelmsford |
Would a guide book be useful here as someone suggested? Also it could have a pull out map so that parents should be in no doubt which technique to use. There could be an app but in my expery mobile phone coverage is very poor along Offa's Dyke which is the true Welsh border. Or even at Hadrian's wall to the north |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Its 2022 and its took them this long to decide its wrong!!!!!
Scotland only banned outright in 2020.
I believe in England and Northern Ireland it is illegal for a parent or carer to smack their own child unless it amounts to “reasonable punishment”, so they’ve not banned it outright (yet). I may be wrong though.
And whilst Wales may be late in getting on board, it’s better late than never.
Reasonable punishment . I wonder if some people sat in a room and listed these reasonable punishments and the misdemeanours they should be applied to or are they leaving it up to individual courts to decide. Maybe there's a handy guide somewhere so that unwary parents don't dish out one more hit than is legally allowed.
I dread to think. I mean you’d like to hope there wouldn’t be a list somewhere, but these days nothing would surprise me when it comes to the law.
Think when it came into Wales, it was something along the lines of the kind of mark that was left after the hit. I mean seriously what on earth
Jesus Christ!
Whilst absolutely against corporal punishment, there has to be *some* definition. If a child reaches for a cup of tea on a table, stick a fork in a plug socket or run into a road you may act fast to push their hand/body away with your hand. A smack to me is leaving a mark or intending the action to cause pain or distress. The purpose and intent are more important than the action, but they could look identical "
That's not punishment though. I had occasion to tap my children's hands when they reached for a hot cup of tea for instance but not frequently and I never needed to do more than tap their hand away. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Would a guide book be useful here as someone suggested? Also it could have a pull out map so that parents should be in no doubt which technique to use. There could be an app but in my expery mobile phone coverage is very poor along Offa's Dyke which is the true Welsh border. Or even at Hadrian's wall to the north "
Kind of like a karma sutra but for smacking? I think you're onto something. Obviously it would need to be a download, not a website, so those living in desolation can nip to their local piece of civilisation to grab some free wifi to get it. It could be a whole series, like a Dummies Guide. Could have one for wife beating, where to punch that the bruises don't show so much etc. Honestly Tom, I underestimated you... |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *batMan
over a year ago
Alicante, Spain. (Sometimes in Wales) |
"Does this law stop you hitting other peoples kids?"
It's always an assault when you beat someone. However, some assaults are lawful, for instance, self defence, or arresting an offender, as long as only reasonable force is used.
For common assault (essentially an assault that leaves no injury) there used to be a defence that the assault was a reasonable chastisement of your child. It was never legal to hit them and leave marks, but now the defence of lawful chastisement has also been removed. It was never a defence to chastise someone else's child.
For anyone getting mixed up with kids grabbing for a hot cuppa or running into the road, it's still very legal to grab them to stop them and protect them.
So to answer your question, you can hit other people's kids, but it better be for a fucking good reason! (and you will probably have to explain that reason either to their angry parent, the police, a court, or possibly all of them!).
Gbat |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ssex_tom OP Man
over a year ago
Chelmsford |
"Does this law stop you hitting other peoples kids?
It's always an assault when you beat someone. However, some assaults are lawful, for instance, self defence, or arresting an offender, as long as only reasonable force is used.
For common assault (essentially an assault that leaves no injury) there used to be a defence that the assault was a reasonable chastisement of your child. It was never legal to hit them and leave marks, but now the defence of lawful chastisement has also been removed. It was never a defence to chastise someone else's child.
For anyone getting mixed up with kids grabbing for a hot cuppa or running into the road, it's still very legal to grab them to stop them and protect them.
So to answer your question, you can hit other people's kids, but it better be for a fucking good reason! (and you will probably have to explain that reason either to their angry parent, the police, a court, or possibly all of them!).
Gbat "
What if they have a weapon? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"What if they have a weapon?
Other people's kids or the ones grabbing a hot cuppa?
Gbat
"
:Tongue in cheek alert:
When my kids had an automatic rifle in one hand a hunting knife between their teeth and reached for a hot cup of tea I used to ground them and take their teddy away. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ssex_tom OP Man
over a year ago
Chelmsford |
"What if they have a weapon?
Other people's kids or the ones grabbing a hot cuppa?
Gbat
:Tongue in cheek alert:
When my kids had an automatic rifle in one hand a hunting knife between their teeth and reached for a hot cup of tea I used to ground them and take their teddy away. "
When we were kids then everyone carried a knife to cut wood, make bows and arrows and cut rope, played split the kipper... No one stabbed |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *batMan
over a year ago
Alicante, Spain. (Sometimes in Wales) |
We used to play split the knife. You had to hit it just right with a frozen Kipper. Those were the days.
Of course, if you got it wrong, you'd get a beating when you got home, but that was expected then, wasn't it?
The hot summers lasted for nine months, every winter had huge snowdrifts, you could call at any house to get a cup of tea and often they would give you lashings of apple pie to take with you.
Only occasionally would they murdr children and even then they wouldn't put the images online.
Gbat
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
I totally agree that there is no place for smacking kids but this argument is illogical. You wouldn't expect your boss to make aeroplane noises with a spoon to encourage you to eat if you said you didn't feel like dinner either. The way we treat adults and children is very different for a variety of reasons and in many many circumstances. The argument that we don't do x with adults so shouldn't with children is inconsistent and irrelevant. Not smacking kids is an argument that stands on its own merits and needs no comparisons to justify it.
Mr"
Over a day later after reading the above post, my mind is still confused. I've tried every spoon in my cutlery drawer and I can't seem to get any of them to make an aeroplane noise! Are we talking piston, turboprop or jet? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Totally agree with the new law though I thought it was already in place to be honest. Don't understand why we are always the first for the laws though paying for carrier bags, 50p a unit for alcohol and now the smacking ban are we the UK guinea pigs . "
Been that way since they drowned a village to water the scum and the scousers. No international sanctions back then though. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"We used to play split the knife. You had to hit it just right with a frozen Kipper. Those were the days.
Of course, if you got it wrong, you'd get a beating when you got home, but that was expected then, wasn't it?
The hot summers lasted for nine months, every winter had huge snowdrifts, you could call at any house to get a cup of tea and often they would give you lashings of apple pie to take with you.
Only occasionally would they murdr children and even then they wouldn't put the images online.
Gbat
"
Were you in the Famous Five (except for the murder bit)? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I think the law as it stands in England is sufficient.
I remember when I was in school in Scotland during the 1950s & 60s, the law allowed corporal punishment and the school also allowed written punishment lines.
Teachers used to give the boys the belt (strap across the hand) or line but the girl could only be given lines.
This caused complaints, the girl wanted to be given the belt because the belt lasted about 5 minutes at the most but writing 50 or 100 lines took between half an hour to an hour or longer and also induced very painful writer’s cramp in the hand. I should also add we used to have a teacher who would use lines as punishment, however he insisted that each alternate letter was in a different colour of ink (e.g. blue, red, blue, red) you can imagine how long that took to write out.
Also I have a personal memory of my own experience of corporal punishment in the home, my brothers, sister and I were brought up by my mother, we all respected her and she never used to smack us except for one day when I was about 13 or 14, I was doing something I cannot remember what but I persisted doing it after repeated warning to stop doing what I was doing. My mother final said if you do not stop, I will whip you (we used to ride and had a number of riding crops and a whip. I could tell she was serious about her threat, even though I had not been hit before but I knew my mother would keep her word. I repeated what I was doing and she took the whip from the hall and struck me across the back of my legs.
Did this have a lasting effect on me, yes, but not what many may think, rather than feeling abused or hard done by, I felt very ashamed that I had forced my mother to punish me in this way. I knew doing it hurt her more than it hurt me and that was my fault and it made me value my mother more.
I understand there is a time and a place for corporal punishment and nothing will convince me otherwise.
What I do think is wrong is when a parent or anyone hits out in temper because they have lost control, that is when harm is done.
"
Hitting an adult is assault… why should hitting a child be any different? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I think the law as it stands in England is sufficient.
I remember when I was in school in Scotland during the 1950s & 60s, the law allowed corporal punishment and the school also allowed written punishment lines.
Teachers used to give the boys the belt (strap across the hand) or line but the girl could only be given lines.
This caused complaints, the girl wanted to be given the belt because the belt lasted about 5 minutes at the most but writing 50 or 100 lines took between half an hour to an hour or longer and also induced very painful writer’s cramp in the hand. I should also add we used to have a teacher who would use lines as punishment, however he insisted that each alternate letter was in a different colour of ink (e.g. blue, red, blue, red) you can imagine how long that took to write out.
Also I have a personal memory of my own experience of corporal punishment in the home, my brothers, sister and I were brought up by my mother, we all respected her and she never used to smack us except for one day when I was about 13 or 14, I was doing something I cannot remember what but I persisted doing it after repeated warning to stop doing what I was doing. My mother final said if you do not stop, I will whip you (we used to ride and had a number of riding crops and a whip. I could tell she was serious about her threat, even though I had not been hit before but I knew my mother would keep her word. I repeated what I was doing and she took the whip from the hall and struck me across the back of my legs.
Did this have a lasting effect on me, yes, but not what many may think, rather than feeling abused or hard done by, I felt very ashamed that I had forced my mother to punish me in this way. I knew doing it hurt her more than it hurt me and that was my fault and it made me value my mother more.
I understand there is a time and a place for corporal punishment and nothing will convince me otherwise.
What I do think is wrong is when a parent or anyone hits out in temper because they have lost control, that is when harm is done.
"
Do you genuinely believe its ok to be completely rational, calm and reasonable and hit a child? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I think the law as it stands in England is sufficient.
I remember when I was in school in Scotland during the 1950s & 60s, the law allowed corporal punishment and the school also allowed written punishment lines.
Teachers used to give the boys the belt (strap across the hand) or line but the girl could only be given lines.
This caused complaints, the girl wanted to be given the belt because the belt lasted about 5 minutes at the most but writing 50 or 100 lines took between half an hour to an hour or longer and also induced very painful writer’s cramp in the hand. I should also add we used to have a teacher who would use lines as punishment, however he insisted that each alternate letter was in a different colour of ink (e.g. blue, red, blue, red) you can imagine how long that took to write out.
Also I have a personal memory of my own experience of corporal punishment in the home, my brothers, sister and I were brought up by my mother, we all respected her and she never used to smack us except for one day when I was about 13 or 14, I was doing something I cannot remember what but I persisted doing it after repeated warning to stop doing what I was doing. My mother final said if you do not stop, I will whip you (we used to ride and had a number of riding crops and a whip. I could tell she was serious about her threat, even though I had not been hit before but I knew my mother would keep her word. I repeated what I was doing and she took the whip from the hall and struck me across the back of my legs.
Did this have a lasting effect on me, yes, but not what many may think, rather than feeling abused or hard done by, I felt very ashamed that I had forced my mother to punish me in this way. I knew doing it hurt her more than it hurt me and that was my fault and it made me value my mother more.
I understand there is a time and a place for corporal punishment and nothing will convince me otherwise.
What I do think is wrong is when a parent or anyone hits out in temper because they have lost control, that is when harm is done.
Hitting an adult is assault… why should hitting a child be any different?"
I struggle with this too |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
Hitting an adult is assault… why should hitting a child be any different?
Read what I wrote then perhaps you may comprehend the difference.
One is done through anger one is done through love"
How do you hit a child out of love?? What a load of old cobblers (and that's the polite version). Perhaps violent spouses should be forgiven, if they beat their partner "out of love"? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
Hitting an adult is assault… why should hitting a child be any different?
Read what I wrote then perhaps you may comprehend the difference.
One is done through anger one is done through love"
Is it ok to hit an adult if you love them? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
Hitting an adult is assault… why should hitting a child be any different?
Read what I wrote then perhaps you may comprehend the difference.
One is done through anger one is done through love"
Any form of physical attack that is not consensual cannot be described as through love… |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Hitting an adult is assault… why should hitting a child be any different?
Read what I wrote then perhaps you may comprehend the difference.
One is done through anger one is done through love
Is it ok to hit an adult if you love them?"
Wife beaters used to say that. You only do it cause you love 'em. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
Hitting an adult is assault… why should hitting a child be any different?
Read what I wrote then perhaps you may comprehend the difference.
One is done through anger one is done through love
Is it ok to hit an adult if you love them?
Wife beaters used to say that. You only do it cause you love 'em."
A lot of abuse is carried out in the name of love apparently |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Hitting an adult is assault… why should hitting a child be any different?
Read what I wrote then perhaps you may comprehend the difference.
One is done through anger one is done through love
Is it ok to hit an adult if you love them?
Wife beaters used to say that. You only do it cause you love 'em.
A lot of abuse is carried out in the name of love apparently"
Like U2 records you mean? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
Hitting an adult is assault… why should hitting a child be any different?
Read what I wrote then perhaps you may comprehend the difference.
One is done through anger one is done through love
Is it ok to hit an adult if you love them?
Wife beaters used to say that. You only do it cause you love 'em.
A lot of abuse is carried out in the name of love apparently
Like U2 records you mean?"
. Yep |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
Hitting an adult is assault… why should hitting a child be any different?
Read what I wrote then perhaps you may comprehend the difference.
One is done through anger one is done through love
Is it ok to hit an adult if you love them?
Wife beaters used to say that. You only do it cause you love 'em.
A lot of abuse is carried out in the name of love apparently
Like U2 records you mean?
. Yep"
I thought you were meant to Stop! in the name of love. Maybe it's one of those misheard lyrics? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Hitting an adult is assault… why should hitting a child be any different?
Read what I wrote then perhaps you may comprehend the difference.
One is done through anger one is done through love
Is it ok to hit an adult if you love them?
Wife beaters used to say that. You only do it cause you love 'em.
A lot of abuse is carried out in the name of love apparently
Like U2 records you mean?
. Yep
I thought you were meant to Stop! in the name of love. Maybe it's one of those misheard lyrics?"
Now that's a tune.
No, I meant U2's "In the naaaaaame of love, one more in the name of love" |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
Going off at a slight tangent. I was watching Good Karma Hospital recently, a male doctor had dumped a female doctor and left. On his return a female nurse punched him in the nose as did his ex. Everyone including him said he deserved it. I was horrified that this was seen as ok. Imagine if it had been a woman who'd been punched on the nose for dumping a guy then told she deserved it.
There are some seriously mucked up ideas when it comes to physical violence |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Going off at a slight tangent. I was watching Good Karma Hospital recently, a male doctor had dumped a female doctor and left. On his return a female nurse punched him in the nose as did his ex. Everyone including him said he deserved it. I was horrified that this was seen as ok. Imagine if it had been a woman who'd been punched on the nose for dumping a guy then told she deserved it.
There are some seriously mucked up ideas when it comes to physical violence"
There's a lot of hypocrisy like that. I do not agree with it at all! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Going off at a slight tangent. I was watching Good Karma Hospital recently, a male doctor had dumped a female doctor and left. On his return a female nurse punched him in the nose as did his ex. Everyone including him said he deserved it. I was horrified that this was seen as ok. Imagine if it had been a woman who'd been punched on the nose for dumping a guy then told she deserved it.
There are some seriously mucked up ideas when it comes to physical violence
There's a lot of hypocrisy like that. I do not agree with it at all!"
I think it ties in with the idea that there are certain types of people that it is ok to physically assault because they've done something wrong or hurt your feelings.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ssex_tom OP Man
over a year ago
Chelmsford |
Meanwhile, back on the Welsh borders... What would happen if the hospital was bang, smack on the border. It's a bit like the plane which crashes into Offa,s Dyke. Where do they bury the survivors? England or Wales? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Meanwhile, back on the Welsh borders... What would happen if the hospital was bang, smack on the border. It's a bit like the plane which crashes into Offa,s Dyke. Where do they bury the survivors? England or Wales?"
I’d imagine the survivors would be a bit miffed if you tried burying them |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *batMan
over a year ago
Alicante, Spain. (Sometimes in Wales) |
"Totally agree with the new law though I thought it was already in place to be honest. Don't understand why we are always the first for the laws though paying for carrier bags, 50p a unit for alcohol and now the smacking ban are we the UK guinea pigs "
I'm not so sure about the alcohol unit pricing, but the others are good things. Why wait for other less progressive Governments to catch up? We're not guinea pigs, we're leaders.
These laws are brought in by the Welsh Government for people in Wales. It's got nothing to do with any other UK Government and is part of Welsh self determination.
Gbat |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Meanwhile, back on the Welsh borders... What would happen if the hospital was bang, smack on the border. It's a bit like the plane which crashes into Offa,s Dyke. Where do they bury the survivors? England or Wales?
I’d imagine the survivors would be a bit miffed if you tried burying them"
Probably Essex first aid - if they protest they're alive. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
» Add a new message to this topic
