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Violence against women and girls
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"It is still heart breaking in this age that women can't be safe on the streets or in their own home, often murdered by those they trusted most." And it increases year on year. The last stat I saw was 139 women killed by a man in 2021. | |||
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"It is still heart breaking in this age that women can't be safe on the streets or in their own home, often murdered by those they trusted most. And it increases year on year. The last stat I saw was 139 women killed by a man in 2021. " And the official VAWG figure will be higher because the official definition includes offences perpetrated by males and females. | |||
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"Today Jess Phillips MP will read out the names of every UK woman killed by a man in the last year to highlight VAWG. This is the 7th year running she will have done this. I've read some of the stories and they're heartbreaking. I'd welcome discussion on this topic. *This thread is specifically about VAWG. If you want to discuss violence against men - please start another thread. I recognise that it's a huge issue. But this thread is about male violence against women. Please don't derail it. *" Hope she checked the list with Anneliese Dodds, she seemed unable to define what a woman was on Tuesday. | |||
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"It’s simply abhorrent to me. Vile and cowardly acts committed by utter scum. " Yes. And it's incomprehensible to me that a man would kill his own partner (ex-partner) but some of the women in the Femicide Census were murdered by partners. | |||
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"An interesting thing I saw recently, should more non-lethal but effective methods of protecting yourself be made legal One aspect of violence against women is the obvious physical advantage. Toe to toe most women don’t stand a chance against a man Things like pepper spray can even those odds. The tiniest woman can incapacitate a guy with a well placed pepper spray. But they can’t currently under UK law I’m not entirely sure where I stand on that, but it’s an interesting subject. And I’m sure plenty of people will say “why do we have to protect ourselves! Men should stop being violent!” And that’s true, but it’s not reality, and if a law could be passed that would potentially protect somewhere, I think it should at least be considered " Making pepper spray legal opens the door to it being used for other crimes. Or against the women themselves. I guess those are reasons why it remains illegal. | |||
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"An interesting thing I saw recently, should more non-lethal but effective methods of protecting yourself be made legal One aspect of violence against women is the obvious physical advantage. Toe to toe most women don’t stand a chance against a man Things like pepper spray can even those odds. The tiniest woman can incapacitate a guy with a well placed pepper spray. But they can’t currently under UK law I’m not entirely sure where I stand on that, but it’s an interesting subject. And I’m sure plenty of people will say “why do we have to protect ourselves! Men should stop being violent!” And that’s true, but it’s not reality, and if a law could be passed that would potentially protect somewhere, I think it should at least be considered " The second part of your post I agree with. Education is key to changing behaviours. The first part is potentially even more damaging. If as you say a man has generally a greater physical advantage over a woman, what is to say he won’t then use that pepper spray against her? It’s been shown in the US that when ordinary (ie not gang members, law enforcement) carry a firearm for their own protection, the most likely person that firearm will be used on is them by an attacker, or in a struggle. | |||
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"An interesting thing I saw recently, should more non-lethal but effective methods of protecting yourself be made legal One aspect of violence against women is the obvious physical advantage. Toe to toe most women don’t stand a chance against a man Things like pepper spray can even those odds. The tiniest woman can incapacitate a guy with a well placed pepper spray. But they can’t currently under UK law I’m not entirely sure where I stand on that, but it’s an interesting subject. And I’m sure plenty of people will say “why do we have to protect ourselves! Men should stop being violent!” And that’s true, but it’s not reality, and if a law could be passed that would potentially protect somewhere, I think it should at least be considered The second part of your post I agree with. Education is key to changing behaviours. The first part is potentially even more damaging. If as you say a man has generally a greater physical advantage over a woman, what is to say he won’t then use that pepper spray against her? It’s been shown in the US that when ordinary (ie not gang members, law enforcement) carry a firearm for their own protection, the most likely person that firearm will be used on is them by an attacker, or in a struggle. " My thought would be that I don’t need pepper spray against a woman, it’s not really an advantage for me to have it. Because I already have the physical advantage But if a woman has it, it’s a huge advantage for her. Just a few thoughts. As I said, I’m torn on it. Personally, I want my sisters and my mum and every woman I care about to be able to carry something that might save their lives But there’s loads of very good counter points and I realise my bias in only looking at it from the best possible out come scenario | |||
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"Is violence more prevalent within relationships or between relative strangers? I’d assume relationships? A friend told me recently Clare’s Law is enacted so a woman can check a central register via local police if a man has been cautioned/arrested/charged/prosecuted for violence against women. Not sure how accurate this is but it’s a very good thing if it is. " Within relationships. Children are far more likely to be hurt or killed by a parent or step parent. Women are most likely to be assaulted or murdered by their partner or ex partner than anyone else. The figures for men are more even, but still more likely to be someone they know (although men are the most likely to be killed by a stranger). | |||
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" I don't think any rationale person can dismiss the statistic or make reference to other comparable matters such as violence against men. As we know, data doesn't provide the answers but the questions to ask? Why is this, and will it ever change, where is it most prevalent and how can we address it effectively. "I carry a small can of spray deodorant in my basket front of my bike as I cycle to work at 3 in morning so allways dark and quiet! Not had to use it yet but it would be going straight in the eyes of an attacker x | |||
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"It is still heart breaking in this age that women can't be safe on the streets or in their own home, often murdered by those they trusted most. And it increases year on year. The last stat I saw was 139 women killed by a man in 2021. And the official VAWG figure will be higher because the official definition includes offences perpetrated by males and females." What official VAWG figure? The figures compiled for Jess Phillips are by a volunteer. Karen Ingala Smith. Murders committed by females number about one a year if that. | |||
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"The problem with things like pepper sprays is that they won’t help for the majority of the times when it’s needed. No-one is going to have pepper spray in their pocket in their kitchen while cooking the family Sunday lunch. Yet they’re more likely to be assaulted then than they are walking down the street. " Yep! My mum had a pan of boiling oil thrown over her, for apparently giving him a “look” as she was cooking the tea. It wasn’t a look, she couldn’t see properly through her black eyes! He battered me when I was 9, was always battering my brother and my mum, and liked to show his control in other ways too. The best day of our lives was her taking us, and running, when I was 16. My brother abhors violence against women, my sister and I tolerated it, but now we’re stronger too. I dread to think what would have happened to my mum, if she hadn’t have found her courage that night xx | |||
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"Today Jess Phillips MP will read out the names of every UK woman killed by a man in the last year to highlight VAWG. This is the 7th year running she will have done this. I've read some of the stories and they're heartbreaking. I'd welcome discussion on this topic. *This thread is specifically about VAWG. If you want to discuss violence against men - please start another thread. I recognise that it's a huge issue. But this thread is about male violence against women. Please don't derail it. * Hope she checked the list with Anneliese Dodds, she seemed unable to define what a woman was on Tuesday." No trans woman has been murdered in the UK in the last three years, if that's what you're referring to. | |||
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"We continue to raise generations with ingrained misogynistic and objectifying views of women. We need a public health and education based joint approach to tackling the issue. Unfortunately the people who should be responsible for delivering that are often the ones demonstrating problematic behaviours. Even the well-intentioned old fashioned attitudes “always hold a door for a lady / always walk on the outside / never swear in front of a lady” are all based on a notion of women somehow being needing men to step in and protect them from the big bad world - when in truth it’s men are often the danger. " I had to tell my daughter that the little boy in her class wasn’t hitting her because he liked her (I hate that that notion still exists) but that he was a bully, and she wasn’t to tolerate it. I spoke to his dad about it, and he tried to bully my daughter, in front of his son, and get her to admit she’d over-reacted, as it was no different for us as kids. Pulled him up over it. Told him that hitting my daughter across the head with a ruler, pushing her over, making her cry and calling her names, wasn’t acceptable, and that his son wasn’t the victim, my daughter was! It’s frightening that some men, are still teaching their sons that violence against girls/women is ok, as they did it  
Viv xx | |||
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"Is violence more prevalent within relationships or between relative strangers? I’d assume relationships? A friend told me recently Clare’s Law is enacted so a woman can check a central register via local police if a man has been cautioned/arrested/charged/prosecuted for violence against women. Not sure how accurate this is but it’s a very good thing if it is. " I haven't looked at the data for 2020 yet as it's only just released today but the figure for 2019 was something like 67% of women were killed by a partner or family member. | |||
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"The problem with things like pepper sprays is that they won’t help for the majority of the times when it’s needed. No-one is going to have pepper spray in their pocket in their kitchen while cooking the family Sunday lunch. Yet they’re more likely to be assaulted then than they are walking down the street. " And tbh I'd be concerned that it could aggravate a domestic violence situation. | |||
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"The problem with things like pepper sprays is that they won’t help for the majority of the times when it’s needed. No-one is going to have pepper spray in their pocket in their kitchen while cooking the family Sunday lunch. Yet they’re more likely to be assaulted then than they are walking down the street. And tbh I'd be concerned that it could aggravate a domestic violence situation. " Yeah I think my bias is that I’ve seen videos of people using it in the states and it’s so fucking effective You don’t see videos of someone trying to use it and escalating the situation There was a long thread of a feminist page about the banning of pepper spray being specifically aimed at keeping women from being able to protect themselves and it was kinda convincing. But a few posts here and definitely made me reconsider | |||
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"Pepper spray and everything is an option. But most of the victims are generally known by their attacker, so how many incidents would it reduce. Education and support is what is needed. As a victim of domestic abuse, being told oh I didn't hit you that hard or I didn't mean to push you into wall is how it all started. Until it becomes kind of normal it's a bizzare thing and I can't explain what the hell was I thinking. But he crossed a hard line and I couldn't ignore or justify it anymore. But that leaving was horrific, the violence and abuse was ramped up as he realised he was loosing control. What is needed is better information on how to get out safely. Yes there are shelters but they are often full. So you can't just leave leaving you in a truly terrifying situation. " I was told if I left the house, with my girls, I was making myself deliberately homeless, and wouldn’t be given any assistance. So we stayed. I’d been with him since I was 17, he was all I knew. I should have left when I was 18 and pregnant, as that’s when it started, but I was so desperate to have a “family” with both parents, I decided it would be ok, he’d change, he loved me. It was having a child, who wasn’t disabled, like her sister, who would see that what was happening wasn’t right, and knowing I’d be teaching her the lessons my mum taught me, that eventually gave me the strength to leave. I didn’t want history repeating itself again x Viv xx | |||
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"All violence towards anyone is disgusting. But physical is often not the worst. Some people are attacked for many years in mentally abusive relationships that often are missed in figures gathered by government. " There's no data on that at all that I know of. Coercive control only became a crime in 2015. I don't know what the conviction rate is. Many people don't realise they're being emotionally abused until they've left. I didn't. | |||
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" I don't think any rationale person can dismiss the statistic or make reference to other comparable matters such as violence against men. As we know, data doesn't provide the answers but the questions to ask? Why is this, and will it ever change, where is it most prevalent and how can we address it effectively.
I carry a small can of spray deodorant in my basket front of my bike as I cycle to work at 3 in morning so allways dark and quiet! Not had to use it yet but it would be going straight in the eyes of an attacker x"I hope you never ever need it x | |||
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"The problem with things like pepper sprays is that they won’t help for the majority of the times when it’s needed. No-one is going to have pepper spray in their pocket in their kitchen while cooking the family Sunday lunch. Yet they’re more likely to be assaulted then than they are walking down the street. And tbh I'd be concerned that it could aggravate a domestic violence situation. Yeah I think my bias is that I’ve seen videos of people using it in the states and it’s so fucking effective You don’t see videos of someone trying to use it and escalating the situation There was a long thread of a feminist page about the banning of pepper spray being specifically aimed at keeping women from being able to protect themselves and it was kinda convincing. But a few posts here and definitely made me reconsider " Think if my ex found that I had some hidden in the house. It would have led to more abuse towards me to be honest. | |||
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"Pepper spray and everything is an option. But most of the victims are generally known by their attacker, so how many incidents would it reduce. Education and support is what is needed. As a victim of domestic abuse, being told oh I didn't hit you that hard or I didn't mean to push you into wall is how it all started. Until it becomes kind of normal it's a bizzare thing and I can't explain what the hell was I thinking. But he crossed a hard line and I couldn't ignore or justify it anymore. But that leaving was horrific, the violence and abuse was ramped up as he realised he was loosing control. What is needed is better information on how to get out safely. Yes there are shelters but they are often full. So you can't just leave leaving you in a truly terrifying situation. I was told if I left the house, with my girls, I was making myself deliberately homeless, and wouldn’t be given any assistance. So we stayed. I’d been with him since I was 17, he was all I knew. I should have left when I was 18 and pregnant, as that’s when it started, but I was so desperate to have a “family” with both parents, I decided it would be ok, he’d change, he loved me. It was having a child, who wasn’t disabled, like her sister, who would see that what was happening wasn’t right, and knowing I’d be teaching her the lessons my mum taught me, that eventually gave me the strength to leave. I didn’t want history repeating itself again x Viv xx" We unfortunately have very similar stories. In my despiration to have a perfect relationship, following from abuse from Dad. My ex made sure he wasn't as bad as my Dad, so he'd say I was overreacting because of former trauma. It was when he hit me in front of my kids I knew I had to leave. I want my kids to know what love and relationships look like x | |||
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"The problem with things like pepper sprays is that they won’t help for the majority of the times when it’s needed. No-one is going to have pepper spray in their pocket in their kitchen while cooking the family Sunday lunch. Yet they’re more likely to be assaulted then than they are walking down the street. Yep! My mum had a pan of boiling oil thrown over her, for apparently giving him a “look” as she was cooking the tea. It wasn’t a look, she couldn’t see properly through her black eyes! He battered me when I was 9, was always battering my brother and my mum, and liked to show his control in other ways too. The best day of our lives was her taking us, and running, when I was 16. My brother abhors violence against women, my sister and I tolerated it, but now we’re stronger too. I dread to think what would have happened to my mum, if she hadn’t have found her courage that night xx " Your brave mum. It must have taken so much to walk away.  | |||
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"Pepper spray and everything is an option. But most of the victims are generally known by their attacker, so how many incidents would it reduce. Education and support is what is needed. As a victim of domestic abuse, being told oh I didn't hit you that hard or I didn't mean to push you into wall is how it all started. Until it becomes kind of normal it's a bizzare thing and I can't explain what the hell was I thinking. But he crossed a hard line and I couldn't ignore or justify it anymore. But that leaving was horrific, the violence and abuse was ramped up as he realised he was loosing control. What is needed is better information on how to get out safely. Yes there are shelters but they are often full. So you can't just leave leaving you in a truly terrifying situation. " Not to mention that it doesn’t stop after people leave either. Post separation abuse can continue for years especially if children are part of the situation. Thank you for sharing your story publicly, I’m glad you are in a safer space now. | |||
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"I think education would be a good start. We have spent years teaching kids about stranger danger but not bothered to teach them about the kind of danger they're most likely to face. Teach kids to recognise abuse, teach them that they have a voice, teach them that no matter how often they're told "no one will believe you" or "you will get in trouble if you report this" that these things won't happen. As they get older teach them about healthy relationships, teach them what abusive and controlling behaviour is, how to recognise it - in themselves as well as when committed against them. Teach how to stop it esculating - in themselves and from others, to have self confidence enough to walk away. It's all well and good saying this isn't the job of schools but the reality is domestic violence has gone on from the beginning of time - family cannot be relied on to sort the issue. Almost no one gets murdered as a first domestic attack, the failure is in dealing with the issue long long before it becomes another death. Mr" It is something that is now being taught at the appropriate age level. We’ve just had the detail of the Relationship & Sexual Education that is to be delivered next term. It covers, all of the above & more. | |||
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"Is violence more prevalent within relationships or between relative strangers? I’d assume relationships? A friend told me recently Clare’s Law is enacted so a woman can check a central register via local police if a man has been cautioned/arrested/charged/prosecuted for violence against women. Not sure how accurate this is but it’s a very good thing if it is. " Yes this is true, I personally know a few women and a man who used Claire's law. | |||
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"I think education would be a good start. We have spent years teaching kids about stranger danger but not bothered to teach them about the kind of danger they're most likely to face. Teach kids to recognise abuse, teach them that they have a voice, teach them that no matter how often they're told "no one will believe you" or "you will get in trouble if you report this" that these things won't happen. As they get older teach them about healthy relationships, teach them what abusive and controlling behaviour is, how to recognise it - in themselves as well as when committed against them. Teach how to stop it esculating - in themselves and from others, to have self confidence enough to walk away. It's all well and good saying this isn't the job of schools but the reality is domestic violence has gone on from the beginning of time - family cannot be relied on to sort the issue. Almost no one gets murdered as a first domestic attack, the failure is in dealing with the issue long long before it becomes another death. Mr" I think some education could definitely be slotted into PSHE. I'm just not sure if your average 15 yo would see abusive behaviour as relevant to them and engage? Personal boundaries - definitely. It's something I've worked on with my kids because I personally feel that having strong boundaries is a way to protect yourself. | |||
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"Today Jess Phillips MP will read out the names of every UK woman killed by a man in the last year to highlight VAWG. This is the 7th year running she will have done this. I've read some of the stories and they're heartbreaking. I'd welcome discussion on this topic. *This thread is specifically about VAWG. If you want to discuss violence against men - please start another thread. I recognise that it's a huge issue. But this thread is about male violence against women. Please don't derail it. *" no magic bullet on this topic...it will be the same this year..next year and the next million years. | |||
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"Pepper spray and everything is an option. But most of the victims are generally known by their attacker, so how many incidents would it reduce. Education and support is what is needed. As a victim of domestic abuse, being told oh I didn't hit you that hard or I didn't mean to push you into wall is how it all started. Until it becomes kind of normal it's a bizzare thing and I can't explain what the hell was I thinking. But he crossed a hard line and I couldn't ignore or justify it anymore. But that leaving was horrific, the violence and abuse was ramped up as he realised he was loosing control. What is needed is better information on how to get out safely. Yes there are shelters but they are often full. So you can't just leave leaving you in a truly terrifying situation. I was told if I left the house, with my girls, I was making myself deliberately homeless, and wouldn’t be given any assistance. So we stayed. I’d been with him since I was 17, he was all I knew. I should have left when I was 18 and pregnant, as that’s when it started, but I was so desperate to have a “family” with both parents, I decided it would be ok, he’d change, he loved me. It was having a child, who wasn’t disabled, like her sister, who would see that what was happening wasn’t right, and knowing I’d be teaching her the lessons my mum taught me, that eventually gave me the strength to leave. I didn’t want history repeating itself again x Viv xx" You got out. You did that for you and for them. I hope you're safe and loved now. X | |||
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"Pepper spray and everything is an option. But most of the victims are generally known by their attacker, so how many incidents would it reduce. Education and support is what is needed. As a victim of domestic abuse, being told oh I didn't hit you that hard or I didn't mean to push you into wall is how it all started. Until it becomes kind of normal it's a bizzare thing and I can't explain what the hell was I thinking. But he crossed a hard line and I couldn't ignore or justify it anymore. But that leaving was horrific, the violence and abuse was ramped up as he realised he was loosing control. What is needed is better information on how to get out safely. Yes there are shelters but they are often full. So you can't just leave leaving you in a truly terrifying situation. I was told if I left the house, with my girls, I was making myself deliberately homeless, and wouldn’t be given any assistance. So we stayed. I’d been with him since I was 17, he was all I knew. I should have left when I was 18 and pregnant, as that’s when it started, but I was so desperate to have a “family” with both parents, I decided it would be ok, he’d change, he loved me. It was having a child, who wasn’t disabled, like her sister, who would see that what was happening wasn’t right, and knowing I’d be teaching her the lessons my mum taught me, that eventually gave me the strength to leave. I didn’t want history repeating itself again x Viv xx We unfortunately have very similar stories. In my despiration to have a perfect relationship, following from abuse from Dad. My ex made sure he wasn't as bad as my Dad, so he'd say I was overreacting because of former trauma. It was when he hit me in front of my kids I knew I had to leave. I want my kids to know what love and relationships look like x " I'm so glad you got out, Frida. | |||
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"Does the list include trans woman ? " Fortunately no trans women in the UK have been murdered in the last few years. | |||
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"Pepper spray and everything is an option. But most of the victims are generally known by their attacker, so how many incidents would it reduce. Education and support is what is needed. As a victim of domestic abuse, being told oh I didn't hit you that hard or I didn't mean to push you into wall is how it all started. Until it becomes kind of normal it's a bizzare thing and I can't explain what the hell was I thinking. But he crossed a hard line and I couldn't ignore or justify it anymore. But that leaving was horrific, the violence and abuse was ramped up as he realised he was loosing control. What is needed is better information on how to get out safely. Yes there are shelters but they are often full. So you can't just leave leaving you in a truly terrifying situation. I was told if I left the house, with my girls, I was making myself deliberately homeless, and wouldn’t be given any assistance. So we stayed. I’d been with him since I was 17, he was all I knew. I should have left when I was 18 and pregnant, as that’s when it started, but I was so desperate to have a “family” with both parents, I decided it would be ok, he’d change, he loved me. It was having a child, who wasn’t disabled, like her sister, who would see that what was happening wasn’t right, and knowing I’d be teaching her the lessons my mum taught me, that eventually gave me the strength to leave. I didn’t want history repeating itself again x Viv xx We unfortunately have very similar stories. In my despiration to have a perfect relationship, following from abuse from Dad. My ex made sure he wasn't as bad as my Dad, so he'd say I was overreacting because of former trauma. It was when he hit me in front of my kids I knew I had to leave. I want my kids to know what love and relationships look like x " I’m so glad you got out. I’m the same, I don’t want my girls in a home where the parents aren’t happy, and one is afraid. My ex once said “I only grabbed your neck and pushed you against the door, it’s not like I punched you” Like that made all the difference. Sometimes I wished he would have, as people see bruises, they don’t see the psychological damage, from the other types of abuse as well. My mum even said “At least he doesn’t hit you love”. It was when I was frozen, in fear, as he was leaving work to make sure I was home, and my sister saw it, that I knew I had to make changes. My girls will hopefully never know the fear I’ve witnessed or experienced. They have a loving and violence free home xx | |||
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"The problem with things like pepper sprays is that they won’t help for the majority of the times when it’s needed. No-one is going to have pepper spray in their pocket in their kitchen while cooking the family Sunday lunch. Yet they’re more likely to be assaulted then than they are walking down the street. Yep! My mum had a pan of boiling oil thrown over her, for apparently giving him a “look” as she was cooking the tea. It wasn’t a look, she couldn’t see properly through her black eyes! He battered me when I was 9, was always battering my brother and my mum, and liked to show his control in other ways too. The best day of our lives was her taking us, and running, when I was 16. My brother abhors violence against women, my sister and I tolerated it, but now we’re stronger too. I dread to think what would have happened to my mum, if she hadn’t have found her courage that night xx Your brave mum. It must have taken so much to walk away. "It did. He was able to hound her for a couple of years afterwards. It’s so stupid, but I don’t even use my real name on social media, as my surname is so unusual, just in case he’s still alive. Like he’d even care, but I don’t want him being able to have any access to my mums or our lives anymore. I saw him once, when in my late 20’s, in a super market, and I just ran out. It was like I was a child, all over again. The fear was still so real. They don’t tell you that bit, when you escape them xx | |||
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" I’m sure that I am not alone on knowing a victim of domestic abuse who left her partner (husband in this case), told family and friends where had been going on, got back on her own two feet, got a new job ... and then went back to him. " On average they say it takes around 7 attempts for someone to leave successfully. Also leaving is the most dangerous time so that is when someone is most likely to be killed. | |||
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"Pepper spray and everything is an option. But most of the victims are generally known by their attacker, so how many incidents would it reduce. Education and support is what is needed. As a victim of domestic abuse, being told oh I didn't hit you that hard or I didn't mean to push you into wall is how it all started. Until it becomes kind of normal it's a bizzare thing and I can't explain what the hell was I thinking. But he crossed a hard line and I couldn't ignore or justify it anymore. But that leaving was horrific, the violence and abuse was ramped up as he realised he was loosing control. What is needed is better information on how to get out safely. Yes there are shelters but they are often full. So you can't just leave leaving you in a truly terrifying situation. I was told if I left the house, with my girls, I was making myself deliberately homeless, and wouldn’t be given any assistance. So we stayed. I’d been with him since I was 17, he was all I knew. I should have left when I was 18 and pregnant, as that’s when it started, but I was so desperate to have a “family” with both parents, I decided it would be ok, he’d change, he loved me. It was having a child, who wasn’t disabled, like her sister, who would see that what was happening wasn’t right, and knowing I’d be teaching her the lessons my mum taught me, that eventually gave me the strength to leave. I didn’t want history repeating itself again x Viv xx You got out. You did that for you and for them. I hope you're safe and loved now. X"I am thank you xx | |||
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" I’m sure that I am not alone on knowing a victim of domestic abuse who left her partner (husband in this case), told family and friends where had been going on, got back on her own two feet, got a new job ... and then went back to him. On average they say it takes around 7 attempts for someone to leave successfully. Also leaving is the most dangerous time so that is when someone is most likely to be killed." There was a documentary a couple of years ago on channel 4 about domestic violence and it followed to women's story in real time. Afterwards there was a program with people who help women to escape domestic violence situations and it was so helpful unfortunately I can't remember the name of the documentary but it was brilliant and still sticks in by mind. | |||
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"The only time I've ever been a victim of any abuse/violence by men is by the ones I've been involved with in some way, in my own home. Never a stranger. Never out on the street. More needs to be done in schools to educate children what healthy relationships look like. " In terms of education, this might sound lame, but education people on now to resolve conflict might help. I know of a few cases of domestic abuse, and in each case the bloke involved hair seemed to snap and lash out, verbally initially, then progressing to physical abuse. In each case, he came from a family where blazing rows were pretty common, they saw nothing wrong with that, so that was how they dealt with ani frustrations ... bottle things up, bottle things up, explode in a rage. One of the guys involved was bemused that there were other ways to handle things, to discuss issues calmly and constructively, to identify frustrations early and try to avoid them becoming a major issue, she’d sort of thing. Some people simply don’t have those interpersonal skills, or empathy, often as a result of their own upbringing. Learning interpersonal skills like this at school would be a bit more useful than some of the stuff that is taught. Life skills | |||
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" Where women are victims at the hands of their partners, very often the abusive behaviour is an ongoing thing that escalates or just keeps happening. I’m sure that I am not alone on knowing a victim of domestic abuse who left her partner (husband in this case), told family and friends where had been going on, got back on her own two feet, got a new job ... and then went back to him. “You don’t understand”, “he’s not like that all the time”, “he was in a bad place, he’s ok now”, “he didn’t mean it”, “I provoked him”, “I have better coping mechanisms now” ... lines ther just tear your heart apart, watching a fragile young woman put herself in harm’s way. If I could do one thing to reduce violence against women, it would be to put more robust supports in place for victims of domestic abuse, helping them to not go back to the abuser. Easier said than done though, as in the case I refer to, lawyers, therapists can family and friends all advised her to stay away and she still went back. " My mum did the same for years. He would do everything imaginable to her, and she would always go back. We left Wales, when I had just turned 8, got a home in England, two doors down from my grandparents, he tracked her down and she took him back. The violence started again very soon afterwards, and when my granddad had a word with him, he moved us to the other side of the town, away from them. Everything escalated then. We ran away so many times. I had him sent to prison when I was 16, the final time we ran away. She was free, but the fear was great, she kept in contact, visited him in prison, he turned up at our home on his release. He expected to live with us! I’m so glad that, although she hadn’t been able to break off that contact, when she saw him face to face, in a room with her children again, she said no more. I honestly think he would have killed her, had she taken him back. Took her weeks to recover from the final beating he gave her xx | |||
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" I’m sure that I am not alone on knowing a victim of domestic abuse who left her partner (husband in this case), told family and friends where had been going on, got back on her own two feet, got a new job ... and then went back to him. On average they say it takes around 7 attempts for someone to leave successfully. Also leaving is the most dangerous time so that is when someone is most likely to be killed." Tragic, isn’t it. In the case i mention, I have no idea what else could have been done to help the lady involved. She was away from him, new job, financially secure, saying all the right things, had filed for divorce etc, then moved back in. Actually, the trigger point for moving back in might have been reaching the final stages of the divorce process. Instead of finalising the divorce, she moved back in with him. Sadly, if anything else happens now, her support network will be weaker, as some of the people who invested time, energy and money in helping her out now feel that they wouldn’t do it a second time. That weakening of support network is pretty common too. Initial shock when abuse first comes to light, less shock and less support when it recurs. | |||
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"Is violence more prevalent within relationships or between relative strangers? I’d assume relationships? A friend told me recently Clare’s Law is enacted so a woman can check a central register via local police if a man has been cautioned/arrested/charged/prosecuted for violence against women. Not sure how accurate this is but it’s a very good thing if it is. " Yeah it’s not against a register per se, it it gives people the right to ask for information and it gives police the power to tell (even if not asked for by the potential victim). It’s one of many effective tools. I can see why pepper spray is an attractive option and there’s a possible case for it in cases of stranger violence. It’s effectiveness isn’t guaranteed and it can be taken off someone and either discarded or used against them so isn’t without its own risk. As others have highlighted, attackers are far more likely to be within the home. For that reason escalation of force would never be part of good safety planning - the opposite is true, e.g. moving away from places like kitchens where there are items which can be used as weapons. Stranger violence (particularly against women) is commonly quite sudden/explosive, whereas domestic abuse often relies on the build up of and conditioning to a fear of violence - so there’s not often a single point at which meeting force with force would be helpful. As others have also highlighted the discovery of ‘self defence’ tools could also be a trigger/escalation point. DA perpetrators don’t usually look far for to try to find a “reason” to explain their violence. I’m not, of course, suggesting that that’s right, just that the discovery of something like that (much like the discovery of details of a support organisation, etc.) would be very likely to result in some sort of punitive/‘corrective’ act on the part of the abuser. | |||
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" Sadly, if anything else happens now, her support network will be weaker, as some of the people who invested time, energy and money in helping her out now feel that they wouldn’t do it a second time. That weakening of support network is pretty common too. Initial shock when abuse first comes to light, less shock and less support when it recurs. " That’s all part of the isolation game these people play though If it’s more known that people tend to take several times to leave hopefully it’ll be less successful that these perpetrators succeed. | |||
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" Sadly, if anything else happens now, her support network will be weaker, as some of the people who invested time, energy and money in helping her out now feel that they wouldn’t do it a second time. That weakening of support network is pretty common too. Initial shock when abuse first comes to light, less shock and less support when it recurs. That’s all part of the isolation game these people play though If it’s more known that people tend to take several times to leave hopefully it’ll be less successful that these perpetrators succeed." In the situation I describe. I think that the isolation is an outcome that plays into the hands of the abuser rather than being an outcome that the abuser deliberately sets out to achieve. But yes, isolation is a key tool of abusers, even if they are not consciously seeking it. For example, making friends and family unwelcome because the abuser knows that they are probably speaking against him. | |||
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"I think education would be a good start. We have spent years teaching kids about stranger danger but not bothered to teach them about the kind of danger they're most likely to face. Teach kids to recognise abuse, teach them that they have a voice, teach them that no matter how often they're told "no one will believe you" or "you will get in trouble if you report this" that these things won't happen. As they get older teach them about healthy relationships, teach them what abusive and controlling behaviour is, how to recognise it - in themselves as well as when committed against them. Teach how to stop it esculating - in themselves and from others, to have self confidence enough to walk away. It's all well and good saying this isn't the job of schools but the reality is domestic violence has gone on from the beginning of time - family cannot be relied on to sort the issue. Almost no one gets murdered as a first domestic attack, the failure is in dealing with the issue long long before it becomes another death. Mr I think some education could definitely be slotted into PSHE. I'm just not sure if your average 15 yo would see abusive behaviour as relevant to them and engage? Personal boundaries - definitely. It's something I've worked on with my kids because I personally feel that having strong boundaries is a way to protect yourself. " Not sure I would agree. Lots of those 15 year old will be seeing the behaviour at home so it will be very relevant to them. For those it isn't, it will be no different to every other school subject, how relevant is maths or geography to most 15 year old? I think this doesn't give kids enough credit. When you read through the stories on here and those of women and men I've known who have lived through domestic abuse the one thing they all have in common is that the victim could always have stopped the situation a long time before they actually did - years before in many cases. It may just be another academic lesson at 15 but if taught well could save a person's life many years later. | |||
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"I think education would be a good start. We have spent years teaching kids about stranger danger but not bothered to teach them about the kind of danger they're most likely to face. Teach kids to recognise abuse, teach them that they have a voice, teach them that no matter how often they're told "no one will believe you" or "you will get in trouble if you report this" that these things won't happen. As they get older teach them about healthy relationships, teach them what abusive and controlling behaviour is, how to recognise it - in themselves as well as when committed against them. Teach how to stop it esculating - in themselves and from others, to have self confidence enough to walk away. It's all well and good saying this isn't the job of schools but the reality is domestic violence has gone on from the beginning of time - family cannot be relied on to sort the issue. Almost no one gets murdered as a first domestic attack, the failure is in dealing with the issue long long before it becomes another death. Mr I think some education could definitely be slotted into PSHE. I'm just not sure if your average 15 yo would see abusive behaviour as relevant to them and engage? Personal boundaries - definitely. It's something I've worked on with my kids because I personally feel that having strong boundaries is a way to protect yourself. Not sure I would agree. Lots of those 15 year old will be seeing the behaviour at home so it will be very relevant to them. For those it isn't, it will be no different to every other school subject, how relevant is maths or geography to most 15 year old? I think this doesn't give kids enough credit. When you read through the stories on here and those of women and men I've known who have lived through domestic abuse the one thing they all have in common is that the victim could always have stopped the situation a long time before they actually did - years before in many cases. It may just be another academic lesson at 15 but if taught well could save a person's life many years later. " I'm thinking of my own 15yo. He's already been gaslighted by his dad. If taught well, I'd hope it may make some difference. All these years later, I still find the red flags hard to spot. You're right, I'd want my children to be able to see them. | |||
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"I think education would be a good start. We have spent years teaching kids about stranger danger but not bothered to teach them about the kind of danger they're most likely to face. Teach kids to recognise abuse, teach them that they have a voice, teach them that no matter how often they're told "no one will believe you" or "you will get in trouble if you report this" that these things won't happen. As they get older teach them about healthy relationships, teach them what abusive and controlling behaviour is, how to recognise it - in themselves as well as when committed against them. Teach how to stop it esculating - in themselves and from others, to have self confidence enough to walk away. It's all well and good saying this isn't the job of schools but the reality is domestic violence has gone on from the beginning of time - family cannot be relied on to sort the issue. Almost no one gets murdered as a first domestic attack, the failure is in dealing with the issue long long before it becomes another death. Mr I think some education could definitely be slotted into PSHE. I'm just not sure if your average 15 yo would see abusive behaviour as relevant to them and engage? Personal boundaries - definitely. It's something I've worked on with my kids because I personally feel that having strong boundaries is a way to protect yourself. Not sure I would agree. Lots of those 15 year old will be seeing the behaviour at home so it will be very relevant to them. For those it isn't, it will be no different to every other school subject, how relevant is maths or geography to most 15 year old? I think this doesn't give kids enough credit. When you read through the stories on here and those of women and men I've known who have lived through domestic abuse the one thing they all have in common is that the victim could always have stopped the situation a long time before they actually did - years before in many cases. It may just be another academic lesson at 15 but if taught well could save a person's life many years later. I'm thinking of my own 15yo. He's already been gaslighted by his dad. If taught well, I'd hope it may make some difference. All these years later, I still find the red flags hard to spot. You're right, I'd want my children to be able to see them. " Sadly (I know having worked with them) there are kids half that age and younger who are not only aware of domestic violence but are also conditioned to the “it’s our fault, don’t upset dad” mentality. I think some areas have good work going on to raise the issue in an age appropriate way, but like you and others have said, it needs a lifelong approach and lifelong consistency of message (paired with a public health approach to identifying and addressing abusers and supporting everyone impacted by it). | |||
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" Sadly, if anything else happens now, her support network will be weaker, as some of the people who invested time, energy and money in helping her out now feel that they wouldn’t do it a second time. That weakening of support network is pretty common too. Initial shock when abuse first comes to light, less shock and less support when it recurs. That’s all part of the isolation game these people play though If it’s more known that people tend to take several times to leave hopefully it’ll be less successful that these perpetrators succeed. In the situation I describe. I think that the isolation is an outcome that plays into the hands of the abuser rather than being an outcome that the abuser deliberately sets out to achieve. But yes, isolation is a key tool of abusers, even if they are not consciously seeking it. For example, making friends and family unwelcome because the abuser knows that they are probably speaking against him. " Isolation is an abusers number one tool. I’ve never seen a case yet where they haven’t been actively pushing for it as much as possible. It’s not just about making friends and family feel unwelcome, but add into that making the victim feel guilty about wanting to spend time with other people, plus things like making it difficult by playing mind games saying the friend or relative is stirring or lying. Two common isolation tactics are also being nice to prevent socialising with other people “oh I booked a surprise meal at x place, but if you’d rather go….” And also illness and suicide threats. There is basically a script that abusive men follow, even though they may not realise it. | |||
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"I think education would be a good start. We have spent years teaching kids about stranger danger but not bothered to teach them about the kind of danger they're most likely to face. Teach kids to recognise abuse, teach them that they have a voice, teach them that no matter how often they're told "no one will believe you" or "you will get in trouble if you report this" that these things won't happen. As they get older teach them about healthy relationships, teach them what abusive and controlling behaviour is, how to recognise it - in themselves as well as when committed against them. Teach how to stop it esculating - in themselves and from others, to have self confidence enough to walk away. It's all well and good saying this isn't the job of schools but the reality is domestic violence has gone on from the beginning of time - family cannot be relied on to sort the issue. Almost no one gets murdered as a first domestic attack, the failure is in dealing with the issue long long before it becomes another death. Mr I think some education could definitely be slotted into PSHE. I'm just not sure if your average 15 yo would see abusive behaviour as relevant to them and engage? Personal boundaries - definitely. It's something I've worked on with my kids because I personally feel that having strong boundaries is a way to protect yourself. Not sure I would agree. Lots of those 15 year old will be seeing the behaviour at home so it will be very relevant to them. For those it isn't, it will be no different to every other school subject, how relevant is maths or geography to most 15 year old? I think this doesn't give kids enough credit. When you read through the stories on here and those of women and men I've known who have lived through domestic abuse the one thing they all have in common is that the victim could always have stopped the situation a long time before they actually did - years before in many cases. It may just be another academic lesson at 15 but if taught well could save a person's life many years later. " I think you can still teach kids life skills like how to talk problems out, how to identify issues before they become big issues, how to bring issues up without them escalating into rows, how to defuse rows, that shouting and violence are not ok. These are skills we need in everyday life, work situations, family problems, road rage, you name it. | |||
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" Sadly, if anything else happens now, her support network will be weaker, as some of the people who invested time, energy and money in helping her out now feel that they wouldn’t do it a second time. That weakening of support network is pretty common too. Initial shock when abuse first comes to light, less shock and less support when it recurs. That’s all part of the isolation game these people play though If it’s more known that people tend to take several times to leave hopefully it’ll be less successful that these perpetrators succeed. In the situation I describe. I think that the isolation is an outcome that plays into the hands of the abuser rather than being an outcome that the abuser deliberately sets out to achieve. But yes, isolation is a key tool of abusers, even if they are not consciously seeking it. For example, making friends and family unwelcome because the abuser knows that they are probably speaking against him. Isolation is an abusers number one tool. I’ve never seen a case yet where they haven’t been actively pushing for it as much as possible. It’s not just about making friends and family feel unwelcome, but add into that making the victim feel guilty about wanting to spend time with other people, plus things like making it difficult by playing mind games saying the friend or relative is stirring or lying. Two common isolation tactics are also being nice to prevent socialising with other people “oh I booked a surprise meal at x place, but if you’d rather go….” And also illness and suicide threats. There is basically a script that abusive men follow, even though they may not realise it. " Your final few words were what I was trying to express ... “even though they may not realise it”. I completely agree that isolation is the number 1 outcome, but I don’t think it is always as deliberate and planned as is sometimes portrayed, I think it is sometimes a natural outcome of their behaviour rather than a palmed outcome by the abuser. I’m thinking of one abuser specifically, and the bloke couldn’t plan his way out of a paper bag, but his behaviour has over time stopped people going near his home. He is just unpleasant to be around, and now that everyone knows he is an abuser and thinks he is a total cunt, nobody wants to visit or socialise, as that would kinda validate him or normalise / accept his behaviour. So the isolation is an outcome rather than a goal, but it completely feeds into his hands. There is no way he deliberately set out to make everyone think he is a cunt, but now that he has, it gives him isolation which makes further abuse more likely. | |||
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"It is still heart breaking in this age that women can't be safe on the streets or in their own home, often murdered by those they trusted most. And it increases year on year. The last stat I saw was 139 women killed by a man in 2021. And the official VAWG figure will be higher because the official definition includes offences perpetrated by males and females. What official VAWG figure? The figures compiled for Jess Phillips are by a volunteer. Karen Ingala Smith. Murders committed by females number about one a year if that. " There's now an official definition compiled by the NPCC for the Home Office so that police forces can understand the scale and trends of the problem. Document runs to 17 pages. | |||
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"Pepper spray and everything is an option. But most of the victims are generally known by their attacker, so how many incidents would it reduce. Education and support is what is needed. As a victim of domestic abuse, being told oh I didn't hit you that hard or I didn't mean to push you into wall is how it all started. Until it becomes kind of normal it's a bizzare thing and I can't explain what the hell was I thinking. But he crossed a hard line and I couldn't ignore or justify it anymore. But that leaving was horrific, the violence and abuse was ramped up as he realised he was loosing control. What is needed is better information on how to get out safely. Yes there are shelters but they are often full. So you can't just leave leaving you in a truly terrifying situation. I was told if I left the house, with my girls, I was making myself deliberately homeless, and wouldn’t be given any assistance. So we stayed. I’d been with him since I was 17, he was all I knew. I should have left when I was 18 and pregnant, as that’s when it started, but I was so desperate to have a “family” with both parents, I decided it would be ok, he’d change, he loved me. It was having a child, who wasn’t disabled, like her sister, who would see that what was happening wasn’t right, and knowing I’d be teaching her the lessons my mum taught me, that eventually gave me the strength to leave. I didn’t want history repeating itself again x Viv xx We unfortunately have very similar stories. In my despiration to have a perfect relationship, following from abuse from Dad. My ex made sure he wasn't as bad as my Dad, so he'd say I was overreacting because of former trauma. It was when he hit me in front of my kids I knew I had to leave. I want my kids to know what love and relationships look like x I’m so glad you got out. I’m the same, I don’t want my girls in a home where the parents aren’t happy, and one is afraid. My ex once said “I only grabbed your neck and pushed you against the door, it’s not like I punched you” Like that made all the difference. Sometimes I wished he would have, as people see bruises, they don’t see the psychological damage, from the other types of abuse as well. My mum even said “At least he doesn’t hit you love”. It was when I was frozen, in fear, as he was leaving work to make sure I was home, and my sister saw it, that I knew I had to make changes. My girls will hopefully never know the fear I’ve witnessed or experienced. They have a loving and violence free home xx" Yeah I sometimes wish he'd done something others would have seen as more unacceptable. But he was clever I give him that. That is the best thing we can as parents do, give our kids an abusive free home x | |||
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"Pepper spray and everything is an option. But most of the victims are generally known by their attacker, so how many incidents would it reduce. Education and support is what is needed. As a victim of domestic abuse, being told oh I didn't hit you that hard or I didn't mean to push you into wall is how it all started. Until it becomes kind of normal it's a bizzare thing and I can't explain what the hell was I thinking. But he crossed a hard line and I couldn't ignore or justify it anymore. But that leaving was horrific, the violence and abuse was ramped up as he realised he was loosing control. What is needed is better information on how to get out safely. Yes there are shelters but they are often full. So you can't just leave leaving you in a truly terrifying situation. I was told if I left the house, with my girls, I was making myself deliberately homeless, and wouldn’t be given any assistance. So we stayed. I’d been with him since I was 17, he was all I knew. I should have left when I was 18 and pregnant, as that’s when it started, but I was so desperate to have a “family” with both parents, I decided it would be ok, he’d change, he loved me. It was having a child, who wasn’t disabled, like her sister, who would see that what was happening wasn’t right, and knowing I’d be teaching her the lessons my mum taught me, that eventually gave me the strength to leave. I didn’t want history repeating itself again x Viv xx We unfortunately have very similar stories. In my despiration to have a perfect relationship, following from abuse from Dad. My ex made sure he wasn't as bad as my Dad, so he'd say I was overreacting because of former trauma. It was when he hit me in front of my kids I knew I had to leave. I want my kids to know what love and relationships look like x I’m so glad you got out. I’m the same, I don’t want my girls in a home where the parents aren’t happy, and one is afraid. My ex once said “I only grabbed your neck and pushed you against the door, it’s not like I punched you” Like that made all the difference. Sometimes I wished he would have, as people see bruises, they don’t see the psychological damage, from the other types of abuse as well. My mum even said “At least he doesn’t hit you love”. It was when I was frozen, in fear, as he was leaving work to make sure I was home, and my sister saw it, that I knew I had to make changes. My girls will hopefully never know the fear I’ve witnessed or experienced. They have a loving and violence free home xx Yeah I sometimes wish he'd done something others would have seen as more unacceptable. But he was clever I give him that. That is the best thing we can as parents do, give our kids an abusive free home x " It is, and it’s so easy to say you should have left earlier, it’s not that easy. They make you so afraid, so dependant on them, and use your children as a means to control you. Sometimes the “nice guy” is only “nice” to those around him. He’s as manipulative with them, as he is with you, just in a different way x But, we’re out now, and we have lives that we are safe in. Safe, healing hugs to you lovely xx | |||
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"We continue to raise generations with ingrained misogynistic and objectifying views of women. We need a public health and education based joint approach to tackling the issue. Unfortunately the people who should be responsible for delivering that are often the ones demonstrating problematic behaviours. Even the well-intentioned old fashioned attitudes “always hold a door for a lady / always walk on the outside / never swear in front of a lady” are all based on a notion of women somehow being needing men to step in and protect them from the big bad world - when in truth it’s men are often the danger. I had to tell my daughter that the little boy in her class wasn’t hitting her because he liked her (I hate that that notion still exists) but that he was a bully, and she wasn’t to tolerate it. I spoke to his dad about it, and he tried to bully my daughter, in front of his son, and get her to admit she’d over-reacted, as it was no different for us as kids. Pulled him up over it. Told him that hitting my daughter across the head with a ruler, pushing her over, making her cry and calling her names, wasn’t acceptable, and that his son wasn’t the victim, my daughter was! It’s frightening that some men, are still teaching their sons that violence against girls/women is ok, as they did it
Viv xx "My brother used to beat me up from adolescence into teenage years. My parents never condoned it but they absolutely minimised it. I think they struggled with the idea that it had progressed from childhood squabbling into actual violence. Broken bones, split eyebrows and my bedroom door being punched through isn't "kids being kids" anymore. I was told to lie about where my injuries came from. It's horrible to feel scared in your own home and for your parents not to have your back. I was told not to provoke him even when I'd already started to walk on eggshells when we were alone in the house. I'm honestly so grateful I work in the industry I do and have so much education about domestic abuse or I would worry about where I would be with the messages I could have internalised from all of that. | |||
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"We continue to raise generations with ingrained misogynistic and objectifying views of women. We need a public health and education based joint approach to tackling the issue. Unfortunately the people who should be responsible for delivering that are often the ones demonstrating problematic behaviours. Even the well-intentioned old fashioned attitudes “always hold a door for a lady / always walk on the outside / never swear in front of a lady” are all based on a notion of women somehow being needing men to step in and protect them from the big bad world - when in truth it’s men are often the danger. I had to tell my daughter that the little boy in her class wasn’t hitting her because he liked her (I hate that that notion still exists) but that he was a bully, and she wasn’t to tolerate it. I spoke to his dad about it, and he tried to bully my daughter, in front of his son, and get her to admit she’d over-reacted, as it was no different for us as kids. Pulled him up over it. Told him that hitting my daughter across the head with a ruler, pushing her over, making her cry and calling her names, wasn’t acceptable, and that his son wasn’t the victim, my daughter was! It’s frightening that some men, are still teaching their sons that violence against girls/women is ok, as they did it
Viv xx
My brother used to beat me up from adolescence into teenage years. My parents never condoned it but they absolutely minimised it. I think they struggled with the idea that it had progressed from childhood squabbling into actual violence. Broken bones, split eyebrows and my bedroom door being punched through isn't "kids being kids" anymore. I was told to lie about where my injuries came from. It's horrible to feel scared in your own home and for your parents not to have your back. I was told not to provoke him even when I'd already started to walk on eggshells when we were alone in the house. I'm honestly so grateful I work in the industry I do and have so much education about domestic abuse or I would worry about where I would be with the messages I could have internalised from all of that. "I’m so sorry that you went through that. Parents should protect, they don’t always do that If behaviour isn’t addressed it escalates, as it sadly did for you, and I hope that his behaviour has been addressed, and he hasn’t taken that abusive behaviour into his relationships. I’m not criticising your parents, and I’m sorry if it seems that way, but they condoned it by their silence, and by placing the blame on you. My brother, now abhors violence, but as a teenager he used to scare my mum, smash up her home, was violent in occasion, until my sister and I stepped in, and told him that he was being no better than the man he watched beat his mum to a pulp.
Sadly, the family made excuses for him, it was because of what he’d seen, being beaten himself, etc- no, not acceptable. I was beaten, I was abused, I may have become a victim of it as an adult too, but I never became a perpetrator. There’s no justification, ever! I’m glad you are where you are now, that your employment, and your own survival skills, have given you that strength. I internalised so much, telling myself it was a coping mechanism, it was my fault etc, it wasn’t, I know that now, and I’m stronger because of that acknowledgment xx | |||
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" Sadly (I know having worked with them) there are kids half that age and younger who are not only aware of domestic violence but are also conditioned to the “it’s our fault, don’t upset dad” mentality. I think some areas have good work going on to raise the issue in an age appropriate way, but like you and others have said, it needs a lifelong approach and lifelong consistency of message (paired with a public health approach to identifying and addressing abusers and supporting everyone impacted by it). " I think you're bang on with this - sadly, like with all public services there isn't the money so the problem gets bumped down the line until it stops with one of the statutory services - in this case the police. A more joined up approach with money spent on earlier intervention would have better outcomes all round. Having a team of experts who can help out early on could not only mean hundreds of thousands of people are able get out of a life of abuse but also save on police time, A&E time, CPS time, court time and prison time. It would pay for itself in a few years. Sadly though we have a bunch of fools in power who have systematically stripped away more and more "costs" associated with helping those most in need in society in the name of saving money and now we reap the rewards and suddenly have to find the money anyway to deal with the outcome. It's great standing up in Parliament and saying something needs to change, talk is free. What needs to change is the ridiculous idea that austerity works saves money. Mr | |||
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"I think education would be a good start. We have spent years teaching kids about stranger danger but not bothered to teach them about the kind of danger they're most likely to face. Teach kids to recognise abuse, teach them that they have a voice, teach them that no matter how often they're told "no one will believe you" or "you will get in trouble if you report this" that these things won't happen. As they get older teach them about healthy relationships, teach them what abusive and controlling behaviour is, how to recognise it - in themselves as well as when committed against them. Teach how to stop it esculating - in themselves and from others, to have self confidence enough to walk away. It's all well and good saying this isn't the job of schools but the reality is domestic violence has gone on from the beginning of time - family cannot be relied on to sort the issue. Almost no one gets murdered as a first domestic attack, the failure is in dealing with the issue long long before it becomes another death. Mr I think some education could definitely be slotted into PSHE. I'm just not sure if your average 15 yo would see abusive behaviour as relevant to them and engage? Personal boundaries - definitely. It's something I've worked on with my kids because I personally feel that having strong boundaries is a way to protect yourself. Not sure I would agree. Lots of those 15 year old will be seeing the behaviour at home so it will be very relevant to them. For those it isn't, it will be no different to every other school subject, how relevant is maths or geography to most 15 year old? I think this doesn't give kids enough credit. When you read through the stories on here and those of women and men I've known who have lived through domestic abuse the one thing they all have in common is that the victim could always have stopped the situation a long time before they actually did - years before in many cases. It may just be another academic lesson at 15 but if taught well could save a person's life many years later. I'm thinking of my own 15yo. He's already been gaslighted by his dad. If taught well, I'd hope it may make some difference. All these years later, I still find the red flags hard to spot. You're right, I'd want my children to be able to see them. " Gaslighted in what way? | |||
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"Today Jess Phillips MP will read out the names of every UK woman killed by a man in the last year to highlight VAWG. This is the 7th year running she will have done this. I've read some of the stories and they're heartbreaking. I'd welcome discussion on this topic. *This thread is specifically about VAWG. If you want to discuss violence against men - please start another thread. I recognise that it's a huge issue. But this thread is about male violence against women. Please don't derail it. *" Interesting thread, thank you OP. I think the number for this time period equates to more than two women a week being murdered by a man in the UK. More than ten a month. It’s shocking | |||
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"I personally find it an absolute mickey take that parliament have the nerve to read out the names of so many women who this government and police force have failed! Miss pc " Jess Phillips does it off her own bat to highlight it in the press. And it means it's in the parliamentary record. | |||
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"Part of the problem is that the police have a very high incidence of domestic violence in their own families. Your average policeman does not care. Just look at how some of them treat women in public "Sad but true. Some of them are great but many are very dismissive of abuse, harassment and stalking. | |||
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"Men and women are like chalk and cheese. Typically your average men are physically stronger cross the board than average women. Lack of police and our insistence in looking the other way when certain crimes are committed due to political correctness do not help either." What crimes do we look the other way on due to political correctness? | |||
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"New advert on tv today. Stand up for women. Examples of abusive situations. Teen boys shouting at a girl and one of them says no that's not right. "There’s an account called screengrabthem on IG - people sharing screenshots of messages they’re received from boys at school. It’s honestly so shocking and heartbreaking to read | |||
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"Men and women are like chalk and cheese. Typically your average men are physically stronger cross the board than average women. Lack of police and our insistence in looking the other way when certain crimes are committed due to political correctness do not help either." I don't think we can blame all of society's problems on the lack of police. All the police do is investigate and deal with the aftermath of crime. I agree however that there are serious issues with Justice and criminal system in relation to violence against women but it's not enough just to say we need more police. | |||
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"Men and women are like chalk and cheese. Typically your average men are physically stronger cross the board than average women. Lack of police and our insistence in looking the other way when certain crimes are committed due to political correctness do not help either." The only bit about this statement I agree with is that in average men are stronger than women. Men and women aren't like chalk and cheese at all. For any metric you care to think of, men and women will sit somewhere along a sliding scale with a huge degree of overlap - and that is just as likely to include things like aggression as it is other supposedly gendered characteristics like spatial awareness. I don't believe any crimes are overlooked because it is political incorrect to pursue them. Many are overlooked because of lack of resources, individual biases, systemic culture and a perception of pointlessness knowing the low chance of any success in court. Mr | |||
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"Today Jess Phillips MP will read out the names of every UK woman killed by a man in the last year to highlight VAWG. This is the 7th year running she will have done this. I've read some of the stories and they're heartbreaking. I'd welcome discussion on this topic. *This thread is specifically about VAWG. If you want to discuss violence against men - please start another thread. I recognise that it's a huge issue. But this thread is about male violence against women. Please don't derail it. *" Any violence that is bestowed on a woman by a male is totally unacceptable. I also like the fact you acknowledge the other way around. Fabulous post to make people more aware this is totally and utterly wrong and unacceptable. | |||
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"Today Jess Phillips MP will read out the names of every UK woman killed by a man in the last year to highlight VAWG. This is the 7th year running she will have done this. I've read some of the stories and they're heartbreaking. I'd welcome discussion on this topic. *This thread is specifically about VAWG. If you want to discuss violence against men - please start another thread. I recognise that it's a huge issue. But this thread is about male violence against women. Please don't derail it. * Any violence that is bestowed on a woman by a male is totally unacceptable. I also like the fact you acknowledge the other way around. Fabulous post to make people more aware this is totally and utterly wrong and unacceptable. " Of course. I knew from experience how threads like this get derailed. I don't want men to think that the only violence that is important is that against women. It's not. But today I wanted to highlight that. And aside from the daft misogynist joke, people have respected that. | |||
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"New advert on tv today. Stand up for women. Examples of abusive situations. Teen boys shouting at a girl and one of them says no that's not right.
There’s an account called screengrabthem on IG - people sharing screenshots of messages they’re received from boys at school. It’s honestly so shocking and heartbreaking to read " | |||
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"Does the list include trans woman ? Fortunately no trans women in the UK have been murdered in the last few years. " Not quite true. One trans woman was killed in 2017/18 according to national statistics and it’s believed to be a much higher number as often homocide victims are recorded as gender at birth therefore transgender victims are being misrepresented sadly | |||
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"Part of the problem is that the police have a very high incidence of domestic violence in their own families. Your average policeman does not care. Just look at how some of them treat women in public
Sad but true. Some of them are great but many are very dismissive of abuse, harassment and stalking. "And sadly very very many are perpetrators themselves and pretty much always get away with it and I’ve seen this personally with a very close friend of mine who continies to be abused by her ex who is a police officer as they close ranks and protect him despite reams of evidence!!! https://www.channel4.com/news/more-than-100-women-accuse-police-officers-of-domestic-abuse-alleging-boys-club-culture | |||
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"As a person who as always looked for a partner to be an equal I find it difficult to understand why one would wish to exercise such control over an other person by what ever means, violent or otherwise. I find it very sad that men behave in such a despicable manor. I would wish that all women report to the police any sexual assault however minor, an uninvited touch on the bottom for example. Zero tolerance. I think this would perhaps be a start to tackling the problem. I don’t imagine for a moment that it would solve the problem but perhaps it would deter some abusers and mark a line that sexual abuse is not acceptable in any form. Are there any women who have never been sexually assaulted? " The thread is more about violence than sexual assault | |||
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"As a person who as always looked for a partner to be an equal I find it difficult to understand why one would wish to exercise such control over an other person by what ever means, violent or otherwise. I find it very sad that men behave in such a despicable manor. I would wish that all women report to the police any sexual assault however minor, an uninvited touch on the bottom for example. Zero tolerance. I think this would perhaps be a start to tackling the problem. I don’t imagine for a moment that it would solve the problem but perhaps it would deter some abusers and mark a line that sexual abuse is not acceptable in any form. Are there any women who have never been sexually assaulted? " When I was younger and went to nightclubs and used public transport a lot I would have never been out of the police station if I reported it every time. | |||
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"OP, was it you that’s reading men ‘who hate women’? If not I think you’d really appreciate it. If it is you then sorry ignore. " Yes, I am reading it. I suspect I may have accidentally packed it though! I'm moving house. | |||
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"I think education would be a good start. We have spent years teaching kids about stranger danger but not bothered to teach them about the kind of danger they're most likely to face. Teach kids to recognise abuse, teach them that they have a voice, teach them that no matter how often they're told "no one will believe you" or "you will get in trouble if you report this" that these things won't happen. As they get older teach them about healthy relationships, teach them what abusive and controlling behaviour is, how to recognise it - in themselves as well as when committed against them. Teach how to stop it esculating - in themselves and from others, to have self confidence enough to walk away. It's all well and good saying this isn't the job of schools but the reality is domestic violence has gone on from the beginning of time - family cannot be relied on to sort the issue. Almost no one gets murdered as a first domestic attack, the failure is in dealing with the issue long long before it becomes another death. Mr I think some education could definitely be slotted into PSHE. I'm just not sure if your average 15 yo would see abusive behaviour as relevant to them and engage? Personal boundaries - definitely. It's something I've worked on with my kids because I personally feel that having strong boundaries is a way to protect yourself. Not sure I would agree. Lots of those 15 year old will be seeing the behaviour at home so it will be very relevant to them. For those it isn't, it will be no different to every other school subject, how relevant is maths or geography to most 15 year old? I think this doesn't give kids enough credit. When you read through the stories on here and those of women and men I've known who have lived through domestic abuse the one thing they all have in common is that the victim could always have stopped the situation a long time before they actually did - years before in many cases. It may just be another academic lesson at 15 but if taught well could save a person's life many years later. I'm thinking of my own 15yo. He's already been gaslighted by his dad. If taught well, I'd hope it may make some difference. All these years later, I still find the red flags hard to spot. You're right, I'd want my children to be able to see them. Gaslighted in what way? " The usual tactics of gaslighting. "You must be imagining that. It was just a joke. Stop being so sensitive. I didn't say that, it's your bad memory." | |||
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"As a person who as always looked for a partner to be an equal I find it difficult to understand why one would wish to exercise such control over an other person by what ever means, violent or otherwise. I find it very sad that men behave in such a despicable manor. I would wish that all women report to the police any sexual assault however minor, an uninvited touch on the bottom for example. Zero tolerance. I think this would perhaps be a start to tackling the problem. I don’t imagine for a moment that it would solve the problem but perhaps it would deter some abusers and mark a line that sexual abuse is not acceptable in any form. Are there any women who have never been sexually assaulted? When I was younger and went to nightclubs and used public transport a lot I would have never been out of the police station if I reported it every time. " Same. It still happens to me now as an adult. Two distinct times I can remember while out at a bar before lockdown. I deal with it differently now though and absolutely won't tolerate it. | |||
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"Does the list include trans woman ? Fortunately no trans women in the UK have been murdered in the last few years. Not quite true. One trans woman was killed in 2017/18 according to national statistics and it’s believed to be a much higher number as often homocide victims are recorded as gender at birth therefore transgender victims are being misrepresented sadly " ? Naomi Hursi was murdered in 2018. As we are in 2022, I think saying it's been a few years since a trans woman was killed is accurate. I don't agree with victims being misrepresented - their sex at birth is recorded (not gender). Women are killed because of their sex. That's what femicide is. That data is important. Data related to crimes by gender is also important but would be separate. | |||
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"Today Jess Phillips MP will read out the names of every UK woman killed by a man in the last year to highlight VAWG. This is the 7th year running she will have done this. I've read some of the stories and they're heartbreaking. I'd welcome discussion on this topic. *This thread is specifically about VAWG. If you want to discuss violence against men - please start another thread. I recognise that it's a huge issue. But this thread is about male violence against women. Please don't derail it. *" We need to become better men. | |||
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"Today Jess Phillips MP will read out the names of every UK woman killed by a man in the last year to highlight VAWG. This is the 7th year running she will have done this. I've read some of the stories and they're heartbreaking. I'd welcome discussion on this topic. *This thread is specifically about VAWG. If you want to discuss violence against men - please start another thread. I recognise that it's a huge issue. But this thread is about male violence against women. Please don't derail it. * We need to become better men. " I doubt you have ever done this dude. You don't need to become a better man, the world just needs more men like you  | |||
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"As a person who as always looked for a partner to be an equal I find it difficult to understand why one would wish to exercise such control over an other person by what ever means, violent or otherwise. I find it very sad that men behave in such a despicable manor. I would wish that all women report to the police any sexual assault however minor, an uninvited touch on the bottom for example. Zero tolerance. I think this would perhaps be a start to tackling the problem. I don’t imagine for a moment that it would solve the problem but perhaps it would deter some abusers and mark a line that sexual abuse is not acceptable in any form. Are there any women who have never been sexually assaulted? " Micro sexual assaults couldn't be reported to the police. They're not crimes. And even if they were, what would be the point? The Criminal Justice System doesn't do much to punish those who assault and r@pe does it? The number of women in the UK who have been sexually assaulted is 1 in 5 (Rape Crisis figures). That's based on reported assaults, it's likely the figure is much higher. | |||
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"As a person who as always looked for a partner to be an equal I find it difficult to understand why one would wish to exercise such control over an other person by what ever means, violent or otherwise. I find it very sad that men behave in such a despicable manor. I would wish that all women report to the police any sexual assault however minor, an uninvited touch on the bottom for example. Zero tolerance. I think this would perhaps be a start to tackling the problem. I don’t imagine for a moment that it would solve the problem but perhaps it would deter some abusers and mark a line that sexual abuse is not acceptable in any form. Are there any women who have never been sexually assaulted? When I was younger and went to nightclubs and used public transport a lot I would have never been out of the police station if I reported it every time. Same. It still happens to me now as an adult. Two distinct times I can remember while out at a bar before lockdown. I deal with it differently now though and absolutely won't tolerate it. " Same it's just not a weekly occurrence anymore because I'm not around people enough these days  . | |||
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"As a person who as always looked for a partner to be an equal I find it difficult to understand why one would wish to exercise such control over an other person by what ever means, violent or otherwise. I find it very sad that men behave in such a despicable manor. I would wish that all women report to the police any sexual assault however minor, an uninvited touch on the bottom for example. Zero tolerance. I think this would perhaps be a start to tackling the problem. I don’t imagine for a moment that it would solve the problem but perhaps it would deter some abusers and mark a line that sexual abuse is not acceptable in any form. Are there any women who have never been sexually assaulted? When I was younger and went to nightclubs and used public transport a lot I would have never been out of the police station if I reported it every time. Same. It still happens to me now as an adult. Two distinct times I can remember while out at a bar before lockdown. I deal with it differently now though and absolutely won't tolerate it. Same it's just not a weekly occurrence anymore because I'm not around people enough these days . "Same here and when I got my 1st job at 16 it happened in the work place to just inappropriate comments mainly and bum slapping. But it was totally accepted in the place I worked as just banter. This was 22 years ago and thankfully things are getting better just not quickly enough. | |||
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"Today Jess Phillips MP will read out the names of every UK woman killed by a man in the last year to highlight VAWG. This is the 7th year running she will have done this. I've read some of the stories and they're heartbreaking. I'd welcome discussion on this topic. *This thread is specifically about VAWG. If you want to discuss violence against men - please start another thread. I recognise that it's a huge issue. But this thread is about male violence against women. Please don't derail it. * We need to become better men. I doubt you have ever done this dude. You don't need to become a better man, the world just needs more men like you "I guess I was talking generically, but that’s a very nice thing to say. | |||
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"As a person who as always looked for a partner to be an equal I find it difficult to understand why one would wish to exercise such control over an other person by what ever means, violent or otherwise. I find it very sad that men behave in such a despicable manor. I would wish that all women report to the police any sexual assault however minor, an uninvited touch on the bottom for example. Zero tolerance. I think this would perhaps be a start to tackling the problem. I don’t imagine for a moment that it would solve the problem but perhaps it would deter some abusers and mark a line that sexual abuse is not acceptable in any form. Are there any women who have never been sexually assaulted? The thread is more about violence than sexual assault " There is considerable evidence that sexual harassment and assaults are precursors to violence. They're part of the same picture. | |||
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"Today Jess Phillips MP will read out the names of every UK woman killed by a man in the last year to highlight VAWG. This is the 7th year running she will have done this. I've read some of the stories and they're heartbreaking. I'd welcome discussion on this topic. *This thread is specifically about VAWG. If you want to discuss violence against men - please start another thread. I recognise that it's a huge issue. But this thread is about male violence against women. Please don't derail it. * We need to become better men. I doubt you have ever done this dude. You don't need to become a better man, the world just needs more men like you
I guess I was talking generically, but that’s a very nice thing to say. "I know you were man. I do think it should be changed to 'people who won't accpet this in society' I'd be gutted if someone lumped me into that catagory just because I was male. So I understand the guys on a back foot. But if we take the OP's advice and don't derail it then we can (altogether) try and solve it. No bruised ego's and such, just a better place for us all | |||
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"My question/concern is that is this becoming more prevalent? And why? Is it how children are being raised? Less consequences for their actions? The society they’re brought up in? " I don't think you're find it is becoming more prevalent. I think it's just that women are now talking about it. | |||
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"When my ex assaulted me, the police who took my statement I couldn't fault. They were supportive, gave me information about women's support groups, and encouraged me to make the statement as I wasn't sure I wanted it to be dragged through a court. I'm so glad to be out of that relationship now. It took some time to be completely free of him. I relish my peaceful life now. I've been thinking about volunteering at a women's shelter. " Thats a lovely thing to do. | |||
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"Today Jess Phillips MP will read out the names of every UK woman killed by a man in the last year to highlight VAWG. This is the 7th year running she will have done this. I've read some of the stories and they're heartbreaking. I'd welcome discussion on this topic. *This thread is specifically about VAWG. If you want to discuss violence against men - please start another thread. I recognise that it's a huge issue. But this thread is about male violence against women. Please don't derail it. *" The causes are deep rooted in modern western culture and laws that have put women in a vulnerable state and both men and women in a socially frustrated situation. There is no simple answer. But the society as a whole needs deep thinkers who could look where we went wrong. Look at the cultural changes in the past century that made women more vulnerable. Look at other cultures in the past and present where women were protected against such violence more efficiently. What happened to our moral code, habits, culture, spirituality ect. Too many factors at play. We have been indoctrinated that every social innovation of the modern days is good and everything that worked in the past for the collective is backward. | |||
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"Today Jess Phillips MP will read out the names of every UK woman killed by a man in the last year to highlight VAWG. This is the 7th year running she will have done this. I've read some of the stories and they're heartbreaking. I'd welcome discussion on this topic. *This thread is specifically about VAWG. If you want to discuss violence against men - please start another thread. I recognise that it's a huge issue. But this thread is about male violence against women. Please don't derail it. * We need to become better men. I doubt you have ever done this dude. You don't need to become a better man, the world just needs more men like you
I guess I was talking generically, but that’s a very nice thing to say.
I know you were man. I do think it should be changed to 'people who won't accpet this in society'
I'd be gutted if someone lumped me into that catagory just because I was male. So I understand the guys on a back foot. But if we take the OP's advice and don't derail it then we can (altogether) try and solve it. No bruised ego's and such, just a better place for us all "Trouble is, because we are male, women don’t know if they can trust us or not. That’s uncomfortable for men to hear and leads to a negative feedback loop. It’s us that’s doing this, so we have to be grown up and be the change. I read an article a few years ago about womens experiences of walking home from a night out. It’s so different to mine, and I want that to change. | |||
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"As a person who as always looked for a partner to be an equal I find it difficult to understand why one would wish to exercise such control over an other person by what ever means, violent or otherwise. I find it very sad that men behave in such a despicable manor. I would wish that all women report to the police any sexual assault however minor, an uninvited touch on the bottom for example. Zero tolerance. I think this would perhaps be a start to tackling the problem. I don’t imagine for a moment that it would solve the problem but perhaps it would deter some abusers and mark a line that sexual abuse is not acceptable in any form. Are there any women who have never been sexually assaulted? When I was younger and went to nightclubs and used public transport a lot I would have never been out of the police station if I reported it every time. Same. It still happens to me now as an adult. Two distinct times I can remember while out at a bar before lockdown. I deal with it differently now though and absolutely won't tolerate it. Same it's just not a weekly occurrence anymore because I'm not around people enough these days . "The thread has moved fast, but I just wanted to acknowledge what you've shared, Lacey. The situation with your brother must have been so difficult for you, and affected your relationship with your family permanently. You should have been protected. | |||
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"My question/concern is that is this becoming more prevalent? And why? Is it how children are being raised? Less consequences for their actions? The society they’re brought up in? I don't think you're find it is becoming more prevalent. I think it's just that women are now talking about it. " This! | |||
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"When my ex assaulted me, the police who took my statement I couldn't fault. They were supportive, gave me information about women's support groups, and encouraged me to make the statement as I wasn't sure I wanted it to be dragged through a court. I'm so glad to be out of that relationship now. It took some time to be completely free of him. I relish my peaceful life now. I've been thinking about volunteering at a women's shelter. " I'm so glad you got out and you were supported in doing so. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Today Jess Phillips MP will read out the names of every UK woman killed by a man in the last year to highlight VAWG. This is the 7th year running she will have done this. I've read some of the stories and they're heartbreaking. I'd welcome discussion on this topic. *This thread is specifically about VAWG. If you want to discuss violence against men - please start another thread. I recognise that it's a huge issue. But this thread is about male violence against women. Please don't derail it. * The causes are deep rooted in modern western culture and laws that have put women in a vulnerable state and both men and women in a socially frustrated situation. There is no simple answer. But the society as a whole needs deep thinkers who could look where we went wrong. Look at the cultural changes in the past century that made women more vulnerable. Look at other cultures in the past and present where women were protected against such violence more efficiently. What happened to our moral code, habits, culture, spirituality ect. Too many factors at play. We have been indoctrinated that every social innovation of the modern days is good and everything that worked in the past for the collective is backward. " Where/ when were women protected against violence more efficiently? Genuine question, not trying to be a dick. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Today Jess Phillips MP will read out the names of every UK woman killed by a man in the last year to highlight VAWG. This is the 7th year running she will have done this. I've read some of the stories and they're heartbreaking. I'd welcome discussion on this topic. *This thread is specifically about VAWG. If you want to discuss violence against men - please start another thread. I recognise that it's a huge issue. But this thread is about male violence against women. Please don't derail it. * The causes are deep rooted in modern western culture and laws that have put women in a vulnerable state and both men and women in a socially frustrated situation. There is no simple answer. But the society as a whole needs deep thinkers who could look where we went wrong. Look at the cultural changes in the past century that made women more vulnerable. Look at other cultures in the past and present where women were protected against such violence more efficiently. What happened to our moral code, habits, culture, spirituality ect. Too many factors at play. We have been indoctrinated that every social innovation of the modern days is good and everything that worked in the past for the collective is backward. Where/ when were women protected against violence more efficiently? Genuine question, not trying to be a dick. " You took the words out of my mouth because I think in a lot of ways women are more protected now than they ever have been. Still. good enough but it's better than it was. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Today Jess Phillips MP will read out the names of every UK woman killed by a man in the last year to highlight VAWG. This is the 7th year running she will have done this. I've read some of the stories and they're heartbreaking. I'd welcome discussion on this topic. *This thread is specifically about VAWG. If you want to discuss violence against men - please start another thread. I recognise that it's a huge issue. But this thread is about male violence against women. Please don't derail it. * The causes are deep rooted in modern western culture and laws that have put women in a vulnerable state and both men and women in a socially frustrated situation. There is no simple answer. But the society as a whole needs deep thinkers who could look where we went wrong. Look at the cultural changes in the past century that made women more vulnerable. Look at other cultures in the past and present where women were protected against such violence more efficiently. What happened to our moral code, habits, culture, spirituality ect. Too many factors at play. We have been indoctrinated that every social innovation of the modern days is good and everything that worked in the past for the collective is backward. " You're saying all the right things here. I suggest people green arrow you. I'm deeply sceptical. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Today Jess Phillips MP will read out the names of every UK woman killed by a man in the last year to highlight VAWG. This is the 7th year running she will have done this. I've read some of the stories and they're heartbreaking. I'd welcome discussion on this topic. *This thread is specifically about VAWG. If you want to discuss violence against men - please start another thread. I recognise that it's a huge issue. But this thread is about male violence against women. Please don't derail it. * We need to become better men. I doubt you have ever done this dude. You don't need to become a better man, the world just needs more men like you
I guess I was talking generically, but that’s a very nice thing to say.
I know you were man. I do think it should be changed to 'people who won't accpet this in society'
I'd be gutted if someone lumped me into that catagory just because I was male. So I understand the guys on a back foot. But if we take the OP's advice and don't derail it then we can (altogether) try and solve it. No bruised ego's and such, just a better place for us all
***Trouble is, because we are male, women don’t know if they can trust us or not.***
That’s uncomfortable for men to hear and leads to a negative feedback loop. It’s us that’s doing this, so we have to be grown up and be the change.
I read an article a few years ago about womens experiences of walking home from a night out. It’s so different to mine, and I want that to change. "*** I think this is why the 'trick a woman into bed' went so badly. A supposedly nice colleague trying to manipulate a situation where she would have sex with him. In a very vulnerable situation of sleeping in the same room. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Today Jess Phillips MP will read out the names of every UK woman killed by a man in the last year to highlight VAWG. This is the 7th year running she will have done this. I've read some of the stories and they're heartbreaking. I'd welcome discussion on this topic. *This thread is specifically about VAWG. If you want to discuss violence against men - please start another thread. I recognise that it's a huge issue. But this thread is about male violence against women. Please don't derail it. * We need to become better men. I doubt you have ever done this dude. You don't need to become a better man, the world just needs more men like you
I guess I was talking generically, but that’s a very nice thing to say.
I know you were man. I do think it should be changed to 'people who won't accpet this in society'
I'd be gutted if someone lumped me into that catagory just because I was male. So I understand the guys on a back foot. But if we take the OP's advice and don't derail it then we can (altogether) try and solve it. No bruised ego's and such, just a better place for us all
***Trouble is, because we are male, women don’t know if they can trust us or not.***
That’s uncomfortable for men to hear and leads to a negative feedback loop. It’s us that’s doing this, so we have to be grown up and be the change.
I read an article a few years ago about womens experiences of walking home from a night out. It’s so different to mine, and I want that to change.
***
I think this is why the 'trick a woman into bed' went so badly.
A supposedly nice colleague trying to manipulate a situation where she would have sex with him. In a very vulnerable situation of sleeping in the same room.
"Sorry, I’m lost? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Today Jess Phillips MP will read out the names of every UK woman killed by a man in the last year to highlight VAWG. This is the 7th year running she will have done this. I've read some of the stories and they're heartbreaking. I'd welcome discussion on this topic. *This thread is specifically about VAWG. If you want to discuss violence against men - please start another thread. I recognise that it's a huge issue. But this thread is about male violence against women. Please don't derail it. * We need to become better men. I doubt you have ever done this dude. You don't need to become a better man, the world just needs more men like you
I guess I was talking generically, but that’s a very nice thing to say.
I know you were man. I do think it should be changed to 'people who won't accpet this in society'
I'd be gutted if someone lumped me into that catagory just because I was male. So I understand the guys on a back foot. But if we take the OP's advice and don't derail it then we can (altogether) try and solve it. No bruised ego's and such, just a better place for us all
Trouble is, because we are male, women don’t know if they can trust us or not. That’s uncomfortable for men to hear and leads to a negative feedback loop. It’s us that’s doing this, so we have to be grown up and be the change.
I read an article a few years ago about womens experiences of walking home from a night out. It’s so different to mine, and I want that to change. "That's my point I reckon. If we all feel like we're together then the nice men will accept responsibility and say, be more aware that they might make a lady nervous if they're walking the same way home. If they are more aware they could dunno, keep more of a distance or introduce themselves in a jolly way or some shit. I guess that could make someone more nervous. But do you get my meaning? If good people feel like they're united in this then that's where the change will come from | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Today Jess Phillips MP will read out the names of every UK woman killed by a man in the last year to highlight VAWG. This is the 7th year running she will have done this. I've read some of the stories and they're heartbreaking. I'd welcome discussion on this topic. *This thread is specifically about VAWG. If you want to discuss violence against men - please start another thread. I recognise that it's a huge issue. But this thread is about male violence against women. Please don't derail it. * We need to become better men. I doubt you have ever done this dude. You don't need to become a better man, the world just needs more men like you
I guess I was talking generically, but that’s a very nice thing to say.
I know you were man. I do think it should be changed to 'people who won't accpet this in society'
I'd be gutted if someone lumped me into that catagory just because I was male. So I understand the guys on a back foot. But if we take the OP's advice and don't derail it then we can (altogether) try and solve it. No bruised ego's and such, just a better place for us all
***Trouble is, because we are male, women don’t know if they can trust us or not.***
That’s uncomfortable for men to hear and leads to a negative feedback loop. It’s us that’s doing this, so we have to be grown up and be the change.
I read an article a few years ago about womens experiences of walking home from a night out. It’s so different to mine, and I want that to change.
***
I think this is why the 'trick a woman into bed' went so badly.
A supposedly nice colleague trying to manipulate a situation where she would have sex with him. In a very vulnerable situation of sleeping in the same room.
Sorry, I’m lost? "I suggest you green arrow HardAdam for context. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Today Jess Phillips MP will read out the names of every UK woman killed by a man in the last year to highlight VAWG. This is the 7th year running she will have done this. I've read some of the stories and they're heartbreaking. I'd welcome discussion on this topic. *This thread is specifically about VAWG. If you want to discuss violence against men - please start another thread. I recognise that it's a huge issue. But this thread is about male violence against women. Please don't derail it. * We need to become better men. I doubt you have ever done this dude. You don't need to become a better man, the world just needs more men like you
I guess I was talking generically, but that’s a very nice thing to say.
I know you were man. I do think it should be changed to 'people who won't accpet this in society'
I'd be gutted if someone lumped me into that catagory just because I was male. So I understand the guys on a back foot. But if we take the OP's advice and don't derail it then we can (altogether) try and solve it. No bruised ego's and such, just a better place for us all
***Trouble is, because we are male, women don’t know if they can trust us or not.***
That’s uncomfortable for men to hear and leads to a negative feedback loop. It’s us that’s doing this, so we have to be grown up and be the change.
I read an article a few years ago about womens experiences of walking home from a night out. It’s so different to mine, and I want that to change.
***
I think this is why the 'trick a woman into bed' went so badly.
A supposedly nice colleague trying to manipulate a situation where she would have sex with him. In a very vulnerable situation of sleeping in the same room.
Sorry, I’m lost?
I suggest you green arrow HardAdam for context. "Ah, I thought it was directed at me.  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Today Jess Phillips MP will read out the names of every UK woman killed by a man in the last year to highlight VAWG. This is the 7th year running she will have done this. I've read some of the stories and they're heartbreaking. I'd welcome discussion on this topic. *This thread is specifically about VAWG. If you want to discuss violence against men - please start another thread. I recognise that it's a huge issue. But this thread is about male violence against women. Please don't derail it. * We need to become better men. I doubt you have ever done this dude. You don't need to become a better man, the world just needs more men like you
I guess I was talking generically, but that’s a very nice thing to say.
I know you were man. I do think it should be changed to 'people who won't accpet this in society'
I'd be gutted if someone lumped me into that catagory just because I was male. So I understand the guys on a back foot. But if we take the OP's advice and don't derail it then we can (altogether) try and solve it. No bruised ego's and such, just a better place for us all
Trouble is, because we are male, women don’t know if they can trust us or not. That’s uncomfortable for men to hear and leads to a negative feedback loop. It’s us that’s doing this, so we have to be grown up and be the change.
I read an article a few years ago about womens experiences of walking home from a night out. It’s so different to mine, and I want that to change.
That's my point I reckon. If we all feel like we're together then the nice men will accept responsibility and say, be more aware that they might make a lady nervous if they're walking the same way home. If they are more aware they could dunno, keep more of a distance or introduce themselves in a jolly way or some shit. I guess that could make someone more nervous.
But do you get my meaning? If good people feel like they're united in this then that's where the change will come from "Absolutely. I think changes are more likely to happen if men see other men behaving in ways that women value. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Today Jess Phillips MP will read out the names of every UK woman killed by a man in the last year to highlight VAWG. This is the 7th year running she will have done this. I've read some of the stories and they're heartbreaking. I'd welcome discussion on this topic. *This thread is specifically about VAWG. If you want to discuss violence against men - please start another thread. I recognise that it's a huge issue. But this thread is about male violence against women. Please don't derail it. * We need to become better men. I doubt you have ever done this dude. You don't need to become a better man, the world just needs more men like you
I guess I was talking generically, but that’s a very nice thing to say.
I know you were man. I do think it should be changed to 'people who won't accpet this in society'
I'd be gutted if someone lumped me into that catagory just because I was male. So I understand the guys on a back foot. But if we take the OP's advice and don't derail it then we can (altogether) try and solve it. No bruised ego's and such, just a better place for us all
***Trouble is, because we are male, women don’t know if they can trust us or not.***
That’s uncomfortable for men to hear and leads to a negative feedback loop. It’s us that’s doing this, so we have to be grown up and be the change.
I read an article a few years ago about womens experiences of walking home from a night out. It’s so different to mine, and I want that to change.
***
I think this is why the 'trick a woman into bed' went so badly.
A supposedly nice colleague trying to manipulate a situation where she would have sex with him. In a very vulnerable situation of sleeping in the same room.
Sorry, I’m lost?
I suggest you green arrow HardAdam for context.
Ah, I thought it was directed at me. "Of course not! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Mayne it is becoming more prevalent, as women are finding their voices, maybe some men who don't want women to rise, are doubling efforts to keep them down? Just a thought. " Feminism and this conspiracy that men are out to crash women is part of the problem. Historically men sacrificed their lives to save their women's and still do at war. But the culture of feminism and individualism are killing that quality in most men. Also evolutionists are indoctrinating people that we are a mere talking animals whose main purpose in life is to pursue our animalistic individual desires so long that you don't get caught doing something wrong by the law. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Today Jess Phillips MP will read out the names of every UK woman killed by a man in the last year to highlight VAWG. This is the 7th year running she will have done this. I've read some of the stories and they're heartbreaking. I'd welcome discussion on this topic. *This thread is specifically about VAWG. If you want to discuss violence against men - please start another thread. I recognise that it's a huge issue. But this thread is about male violence against women. Please don't derail it. * We need to become better men. I doubt you have ever done this dude. You don't need to become a better man, the world just needs more men like you
I guess I was talking generically, but that’s a very nice thing to say.
I know you were man. I do think it should be changed to 'people who won't accpet this in society'
I'd be gutted if someone lumped me into that catagory just because I was male. So I understand the guys on a back foot. But if we take the OP's advice and don't derail it then we can (altogether) try and solve it. No bruised ego's and such, just a better place for us all
***Trouble is, because we are male, women don’t know if they can trust us or not.***
That’s uncomfortable for men to hear and leads to a negative feedback loop. It’s us that’s doing this, so we have to be grown up and be the change.
I read an article a few years ago about womens experiences of walking home from a night out. It’s so different to mine, and I want that to change.
***
I think this is why the 'trick a woman into bed' went so badly.
A supposedly nice colleague trying to manipulate a situation where she would have sex with him. In a very vulnerable situation of sleeping in the same room.
Sorry, I’m lost?
I suggest you green arrow HardAdam for context.
Ah, I thought it was directed at me. "Not at all, sorry. X | |||
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"Mayne it is becoming more prevalent, as women are finding their voices, maybe some men who don't want women to rise, are doubling efforts to keep them down? Just a thought. Feminism and this conspiracy that men are out to crash women is part of the problem. Historically men sacrificed their lives to save their women's and still do at war. But the culture of feminism and individualism are killing that quality in most men. Also evolutionists are indoctrinating people that we are a mere talking animals whose main purpose in life is to pursue our animalistic individual desires so long that you don't get caught doing something wrong by the law. " You have an interesting take on life! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Mayne it is becoming more prevalent, as women are finding their voices, maybe some men who don't want women to rise, are doubling efforts to keep them down? Just a thought. Feminism and this conspiracy that men are out to crash women is part of the problem. Historically men sacrificed their lives to save their women's and still do at war. But the culture of feminism and individualism are killing that quality in most men. Also evolutionists are indoctrinating people that we are a mere talking animals whose main purpose in life is to pursue our animalistic individual desires so long that you don't get caught doing something wrong by the law. " Seriously women shouldn't be individuals because that's what I've read from that, that we should be protected by men? We don't need to be protected we just don't need to be subject to inappropriate behaviour, Comments and violence. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Mayne it is becoming more prevalent, as women are finding their voices, maybe some men who don't want women to rise, are doubling efforts to keep them down? Just a thought. Feminism and this conspiracy that men are out to crash women is part of the problem. Historically men sacrificed their lives to save their women's and still do at war. But the culture of feminism and individualism are killing that quality in most men. Also evolutionists are indoctrinating people that we are a mere talking animals whose main purpose in life is to pursue our animalistic individual desires so long that you don't get caught doing something wrong by the law. " Just checking… you’re saying violence against women is the fault of feminism? What a ludicrous position to to take. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Today Jess Phillips MP will read out the names of every UK woman killed by a man in the last year to highlight VAWG. This is the 7th year running she will have done this. I've read some of the stories and they're heartbreaking. I'd welcome discussion on this topic. *This thread is specifically about VAWG. If you want to discuss violence against men - please start another thread. I recognise that it's a huge issue. But this thread is about male violence against women. Please don't derail it. * We need to become better men. I doubt you have ever done this dude. You don't need to become a better man, the world just needs more men like you
I guess I was talking generically, but that’s a very nice thing to say.
I know you were man. I do think it should be changed to 'people who won't accpet this in society'
I'd be gutted if someone lumped me into that catagory just because I was male. So I understand the guys on a back foot. But if we take the OP's advice and don't derail it then we can (altogether) try and solve it. No bruised ego's and such, just a better place for us all
***Trouble is, because we are male, women don’t know if they can trust us or not.***
That’s uncomfortable for men to hear and leads to a negative feedback loop. It’s us that’s doing this, so we have to be grown up and be the change.
I read an article a few years ago about womens experiences of walking home from a night out. It’s so different to mine, and I want that to change.
***
I think this is why the 'trick a woman into bed' went so badly.
A supposedly nice colleague trying to manipulate a situation where she would have sex with him. In a very vulnerable situation of sleeping in the same room.
Sorry, I’m lost?
I suggest you green arrow HardAdam for context.
Ah, I thought it was directed at me.
Not at all, sorry. X "No apology necessary, I wasn’t paying attention. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Mayne it is becoming more prevalent, as women are finding their voices, maybe some men who don't want women to rise, are doubling efforts to keep them down? Just a thought. Feminism and this conspiracy that men are out to crash women is part of the problem. Historically men sacrificed their lives to save their women's and still do at war. But the culture of feminism and individualism are killing that quality in most men. Also evolutionists are indoctrinating people that we are a mere talking animals whose main purpose in life is to pursue our animalistic individual desires so long that you don't get caught doing something wrong by the law. " Well. Your true colours are certainly showing today aren't they? | |||
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"When my ex assaulted me, the police who took my statement I couldn't fault. They were supportive, gave me information about women's support groups, and encouraged me to make the statement as I wasn't sure I wanted it to be dragged through a court. I'm so glad to be out of that relationship now. It took some time to be completely free of him. I relish my peaceful life now. I've been thinking about volunteering at a women's shelter. I'm so glad you got out and you were supported in doing so. "Thank you x | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Mayne it is becoming more prevalent, as women are finding their voices, maybe some men who don't want women to rise, are doubling efforts to keep them down? Just a thought. Feminism and this conspiracy that men are out to crash women is part of the problem. Historically men sacrificed their lives to save their women's and still do at war. But the culture of feminism and individualism are killing that quality in most men. Also evolutionists are indoctrinating people that we are a mere talking animals whose main purpose in life is to pursue our animalistic individual desires so long that you don't get caught doing something wrong by the law. " Wait, what? How is feminism to blame for violence against women?? Don’t like what they say so slap them? I mean, I’m not a huge fan of some elements of feminism and the way they see men but I’m not sure they’re partly to blame for men being cowardly fucking knobheads. Also no men in the last 100 years or so have gone to war to sacrifice themselves for women. I can’t speak for everyone’s motives for going but I’m fairly certain few (none) would give that answer. | |||
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" But the culture of feminism and individualism are killing that quality in most men." ............................ That sounds like a man problem, not a womankind one. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Mayne it is becoming more prevalent, as women are finding their voices, maybe some men who don't want women to rise, are doubling efforts to keep them down? Just a thought. Feminism and this conspiracy that men are out to crash women is part of the problem. Historically men sacrificed their lives to save their women's and still do at war. But the culture of feminism and individualism are killing that quality in most men. Also evolutionists are indoctrinating people that we are a mere talking animals whose main purpose in life is to pursue our animalistic individual desires so long that you don't get caught doing something wrong by the law. Wait, what? How is feminism to blame for violence against women?? Don’t like what they say so slap them? I mean, I’m not a huge fan of some elements of feminism and the way they see men but I’m not sure they’re partly to blame for men being cowardly fucking knobheads. Also no men in the last 100 years or so have gone to war to sacrifice themselves for women. I can’t speak for everyone’s motives for going but I’m fairly certain few (none) would give that answer." Because it’s the wimmins fault, innit! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Today Jess Phillips MP will read out the names of every UK woman killed by a man in the last year to highlight VAWG. This is the 7th year running she will have done this. I've read some of the stories and they're heartbreaking. I'd welcome discussion on this topic. *This thread is specifically about VAWG. If you want to discuss violence against men - please start another thread. I recognise that it's a huge issue. But this thread is about male violence against women. Please don't derail it. * The causes are deep rooted in modern western culture and laws that have put women in a vulnerable state and both men and women in a socially frustrated situation. There is no simple answer. But the society as a whole needs deep thinkers who could look where we went wrong. Look at the cultural changes in the past century that made women more vulnerable. Look at other cultures in the past and present where women were protected against such violence more efficiently. What happened to our moral code, habits, culture, spirituality ect. Too many factors at play. We have been indoctrinated that every social innovation of the modern days is good and everything that worked in the past for the collective is backward. Where/ when were women protected against violence more efficiently? Genuine question, not trying to be a dick. You took the words out of my mouth because I think in a lot of ways women are more protected now than they ever have been. Still. good enough but it's better than it was. " That's a collective self rightousness that people have been told for demagogy and collective pride/nationalism. It's not backed by any statistical or unbiased scientific comparison. The statistics however tell a different story. Between present and past it's getting worse. Between this culture and others, this one is amongst the worst. That's just a fact. All this talk that "women in this country in present days are more keen to come out and report abuse" is not telling the whole story and is often used to deny the fact. Because if you deny the facts the whole claim that we are better than the "others" and better than "us in the past" will collapse. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Today Jess Phillips MP will read out the names of every UK woman killed by a man in the last year to highlight VAWG. This is the 7th year running she will have done this. I've read some of the stories and they're heartbreaking. I'd welcome discussion on this topic. *This thread is specifically about VAWG. If you want to discuss violence against men - please start another thread. I recognise that it's a huge issue. But this thread is about male violence against women. Please don't derail it. * The causes are deep rooted in modern western culture and laws that have put women in a vulnerable state and both men and women in a socially frustrated situation. There is no simple answer. But the society as a whole needs deep thinkers who could look where we went wrong. Look at the cultural changes in the past century that made women more vulnerable. Look at other cultures in the past and present where women were protected against such violence more efficiently. What happened to our moral code, habits, culture, spirituality ect. Too many factors at play. We have been indoctrinated that every social innovation of the modern days is good and everything that worked in the past for the collective is backward. Where/ when were women protected against violence more efficiently? Genuine question, not trying to be a dick. You took the words out of my mouth because I think in a lot of ways women are more protected now than they ever have been. Still. good enough but it's better than it was. That's a collective self rightousness that people have been told for demagogy and collective pride/nationalism. It's not backed by any statistical or unbiased scientific comparison. The statistics however tell a different story. Between present and past it's getting worse. Between this culture and others, this one is amongst the worst. That's just a fact. All this talk that "women in this country in present days are more keen to come out and report abuse" is not telling the whole story and is often used to deny the fact. Because if you deny the facts the whole claim that we are better than the "others" and better than "us in the past" will collapse. " It's absolutely not getting worse the difference is it is now illegal to hit your wife, To withhold property from her, To engage in non consensual sex for example. Laws have changed over the years and to be honest you are talking absolute nonsense. | |||
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"Mayne it is becoming more prevalent, as women are finding their voices, maybe some men who don't want women to rise, are doubling efforts to keep them down? Just a thought. Feminism and this conspiracy that men are out to crash women is part of the problem. Historically men sacrificed their lives to save their women's and still do at war. But the culture of feminism and individualism are killing that quality in most men. Also evolutionists are indoctrinating people that we are a mere talking animals whose main purpose in life is to pursue our animalistic individual desires so long that you don't get caught doing something wrong by the law. Seriously women shouldn't be individuals because that's what I've read from that, that we should be protected by men? We don't need to be protected we just don't need to be subject to inappropriate behaviour, Comments and violence. " Exactly! Years ago the law protected men from prosecution, as a spouse couldn’t report her partner for sexual violence/physical assault, as she was his wife and couldn’t give evidence against her husband. Women were little more than chattel, and that was the 80’s! Where was the protective side of men then? Some women still believe that as long as he long as he doesn’t punch her, a man is a good man. I fail to see, how anything that means a woman knows, and can stand up for her rights, to be treated as an equal to a man, is a bad thing. Secure men don’t feel threatened by a woman asking to be treated as a person in their own rights. Secure men don’t see women as a weak sex that they need to protect. They see them as equals. They wouldn’t assault a man on a regular basis, just to prove they could control them, or think they owned them. So many women were fighting a war, within their own home, just to survive the day to day living, with a “protective” man. Women shouldn’t need to demand respect, to point out that violence against them is wrong, it should be a given. Attitudes are changing, but need to change further, when men see women standing up for themselves, as emasculating men in society xx | |||
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"Part of the problem is that the police have a very high incidence of domestic violence in their own families. Your average policeman does not care. Just look at how some of them treat women in public
Sad but true. Some of them are great but many are very dismissive of abuse, harassment and stalking.
And sadly very very many are perpetrators themselves and pretty much always get away with it and I’ve seen this personally with a very close friend of mine who continies to be abused by her ex who is a police officer as they close ranks and protect him despite reams of evidence!!!
https://www.channel4.com/news/more-than-100-women-accuse-police-officers-of-domestic-abuse-alleging-boys-club-culture"Yes, my ex was a police officer. He told me nobody would listen. | |||
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"Part of the problem is that the police have a very high incidence of domestic violence in their own families. Your average policeman does not care. Just look at how some of them treat women in public "Can you provide evidence of the high incidence of DA in police officer's families? | |||
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"Today Jess Phillips MP will read out the names of every UK woman killed by a man in the last year to highlight VAWG. This is the 7th year running she will have done this. I've read some of the stories and they're heartbreaking. I'd welcome discussion on this topic. *This thread is specifically about VAWG. If you want to discuss violence against men - please start another thread. I recognise that it's a huge issue. But this thread is about male violence against women. Please don't derail it. * The causes are deep rooted in modern western culture and laws that have put women in a vulnerable state and both men and women in a socially frustrated situation. There is no simple answer. But the society as a whole needs deep thinkers who could look where we went wrong. Look at the cultural changes in the past century that made women more vulnerable. Look at other cultures in the past and present where women were protected against such violence more efficiently. What happened to our moral code, habits, culture, spirituality ect. Too many factors at play. We have been indoctrinated that every social innovation of the modern days is good and everything that worked in the past for the collective is backward. Where/ when were women protected against violence more efficiently? Genuine question, not trying to be a dick. You took the words out of my mouth because I think in a lot of ways women are more protected now than they ever have been. Still. good enough but it's better than it was. That's a collective self rightousness that people have been told for demagogy and collective pride/nationalism. It's not backed by any statistical or unbiased scientific comparison. The statistics however tell a different story. Between present and past it's getting worse. Between this culture and others, this one is amongst the worst. That's just a fact. All this talk that "women in this country in present days are more keen to come out and report abuse" is not telling the whole story and is often used to deny the fact. Because if you deny the facts the whole claim that we are better than the "others" and better than "us in the past" will collapse. " I hesitate before using this word. But everything you've written suggests you're swallowing incel beliefs wholesale. You've quoted no facts. No statistics. Just rhetoric. | |||
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"Today Jess Phillips MP will read out the names of every UK woman killed by a man in the last year to highlight VAWG. This is the 7th year running she will have done this. I've read some of the stories and they're heartbreaking. I'd welcome discussion on this topic. *This thread is specifically about VAWG. If you want to discuss violence against men - please start another thread. I recognise that it's a huge issue. But this thread is about male violence against women. Please don't derail it. * The causes are deep rooted in modern western culture and laws that have put women in a vulnerable state and both men and women in a socially frustrated situation. There is no simple answer. But the society as a whole needs deep thinkers who could look where we went wrong. Look at the cultural changes in the past century that made women more vulnerable. Look at other cultures in the past and present where women were protected against such violence more efficiently. What happened to our moral code, habits, culture, spirituality ect. Too many factors at play. We have been indoctrinated that every social innovation of the modern days is good and everything that worked in the past for the collective is backward. Where/ when were women protected against violence more efficiently? Genuine question, not trying to be a dick. You took the words out of my mouth because I think in a lot of ways women are more protected now than they ever have been. Still. good enough but it's better than it was. That's a collective self rightousness that people have been told for demagogy and collective pride/nationalism. It's not backed by any statistical or unbiased scientific comparison. The statistics however tell a different story. Between present and past it's getting worse. Between this culture and others, this one is amongst the worst. That's just a fact. All this talk that "women in this country in present days are more keen to come out and report abuse" is not telling the whole story and is often used to deny the fact. Because if you deny the facts the whole claim that we are better than the "others" and better than "us in the past" will collapse. " Lots of words, jumbled together like a word salad. | |||
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"Part of the problem is that the police have a very high incidence of domestic violence in their own families. Your average policeman does not care. Just look at how some of them treat women in public
Can you provide evidence of the high incidence of DA in police officer's families?"There has been several reports released recently that would back that statement up. | |||
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"Today Jess Phillips MP will read out the names of every UK woman killed by a man in the last year to highlight VAWG. This is the 7th year running she will have done this. I've read some of the stories and they're heartbreaking. I'd welcome discussion on this topic. *This thread is specifically about VAWG. If you want to discuss violence against men - please start another thread. I recognise that it's a huge issue. But this thread is about male violence against women. Please don't derail it. * The causes are deep rooted in modern western culture and laws that have put women in a vulnerable state and both men and women in a socially frustrated situation. There is no simple answer. But the society as a whole needs deep thinkers who could look where we went wrong. Look at the cultural changes in the past century that made women more vulnerable. Look at other cultures in the past and present where women were protected against such violence more efficiently. What happened to our moral code, habits, culture, spirituality ect. Too many factors at play. We have been indoctrinated that every social innovation of the modern days is good and everything that worked in the past for the collective is backward. Where/ when were women protected against violence more efficiently? Genuine question, not trying to be a dick. You took the words out of my mouth because I think in a lot of ways women are more protected now than they ever have been. Still. good enough but it's better than it was. That's a collective self rightousness that people have been told for demagogy and collective pride/nationalism. It's not backed by any statistical or unbiased scientific comparison. The statistics however tell a different story. Between present and past it's getting worse. Between this culture and others, this one is amongst the worst. That's just a fact. All this talk that "women in this country in present days are more keen to come out and report abuse" is not telling the whole story and is often used to deny the fact. Because if you deny the facts the whole claim that we are better than the "others" and better than "us in the past" will collapse. It's absolutely not getting worse the difference is it is now illegal to hit your wife, To withhold property from her, To engage in non consensual sex for example. Laws have changed over the years and to be honest you are talking absolute nonsense. " The statistics are telling a different story. Domestic violence is at its historical peak. | |||
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"Today Jess Phillips MP will read out the names of every UK woman killed by a man in the last year to highlight VAWG. This is the 7th year running she will have done this. I've read some of the stories and they're heartbreaking. I'd welcome discussion on this topic. *This thread is specifically about VAWG. If you want to discuss violence against men - please start another thread. I recognise that it's a huge issue. But this thread is about male violence against women. Please don't derail it. * The causes are deep rooted in modern western culture and laws that have put women in a vulnerable state and both men and women in a socially frustrated situation. There is no simple answer. But the society as a whole needs deep thinkers who could look where we went wrong. Look at the cultural changes in the past century that made women more vulnerable. Look at other cultures in the past and present where women were protected against such violence more efficiently. What happened to our moral code, habits, culture, spirituality ect. Too many factors at play. We have been indoctrinated that every social innovation of the modern days is good and everything that worked in the past for the collective is backward. Where/ when were women protected against violence more efficiently? Genuine question, not trying to be a dick. You took the words out of my mouth because I think in a lot of ways women are more protected now than they ever have been. Still. good enough but it's better than it was. That's a collective self rightousness that people have been told for demagogy and collective pride/nationalism. It's not backed by any statistical or unbiased scientific comparison. The statistics however tell a different story. Between present and past it's getting worse. Between this culture and others, this one is amongst the worst. That's just a fact. All this talk that "women in this country in present days are more keen to come out and report abuse" is not telling the whole story and is often used to deny the fact. Because if you deny the facts the whole claim that we are better than the "others" and better than "us in the past" will collapse. It's absolutely not getting worse the difference is it is now illegal to hit your wife, To withhold property from her, To engage in non consensual sex for example. Laws have changed over the years and to be honest you are talking absolute nonsense. The statistics are telling a different story. Domestic violence is at its historical peak." No the reporting of domestic violence is at historical peak there is massive difference! And the insinuation that if what you are saying is true which it isn't is that because women want to be individuals that's why men are more violent towards them and that is a disgusting attitude. | |||
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"Today Jess Phillips MP will read out the names of every UK woman killed by a man in the last year to highlight VAWG. This is the 7th year running she will have done this. I've read some of the stories and they're heartbreaking. I'd welcome discussion on this topic. *This thread is specifically about VAWG. If you want to discuss violence against men - please start another thread. I recognise that it's a huge issue. But this thread is about male violence against women. Please don't derail it. * The causes are deep rooted in modern western culture and laws that have put women in a vulnerable state and both men and women in a socially frustrated situation. There is no simple answer. But the society as a whole needs deep thinkers who could look where we went wrong. Look at the cultural changes in the past century that made women more vulnerable. Look at other cultures in the past and present where women were protected against such violence more efficiently. What happened to our moral code, habits, culture, spirituality ect. Too many factors at play. We have been indoctrinated that every social innovation of the modern days is good and everything that worked in the past for the collective is backward. Where/ when were women protected against violence more efficiently? Genuine question, not trying to be a dick. You took the words out of my mouth because I think in a lot of ways women are more protected now than they ever have been. Still. good enough but it's better than it was. That's a collective self rightousness that people have been told for demagogy and collective pride/nationalism. It's not backed by any statistical or unbiased scientific comparison. The statistics however tell a different story. Between present and past it's getting worse. Between this culture and others, this one is amongst the worst. That's just a fact. All this talk that "women in this country in present days are more keen to come out and report abuse" is not telling the whole story and is often used to deny the fact. Because if you deny the facts the whole claim that we are better than the "others" and better than "us in the past" will collapse. It's absolutely not getting worse the difference is it is now illegal to hit your wife, To withhold property from her, To engage in non consensual sex for example. Laws have changed over the years and to be honest you are talking absolute nonsense. The statistics are telling a different story. Domestic violence is at its historical peak. No the reporting of domestic violence is at historical peak there is massive difference! And the insinuation that if what you are saying is true which it isn't is that because women want to be individuals that's why men are more violent towards them and that is a disgusting attitude. " A murder of a woman by a family member or a husband didnt't go unreported in the past. With all the new laws that protect women it's getting much worse. You're trying to simplify an extremely complexe issue and reduce it into one factor. I never said that feminism is the problem. I said it's part of the problem. A woman in the past had more backing by her male members of her direct family, neighborhood, clan ect. Now she is a vulnerable individual in the jungle told that men are her enemy by feminists. That's part of the problem. | |||
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"Part of the problem is that the police have a very high incidence of domestic violence in their own families. Your average policeman does not care. Just look at how some of them treat women in public
Can you provide evidence of the high incidence of DA in police officer's families?
There has been several reports released recently that would back that statement up. "No they don't because the plural of anecdote is not data. What you have to show in order to back up the statement is that it is more prevalent in police officers than in society as a whole. | |||
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"As a person who as always looked for a partner to be an equal I find it difficult to understand why one would wish to exercise such control over an other person by what ever means, violent or otherwise. I find it very sad that men behave in such a despicable manor. I would wish that all women report to the police any sexual assault however minor, an uninvited touch on the bottom for example. Zero tolerance. I think this would perhaps be a start to tackling the problem. I don’t imagine for a moment that it would solve the problem but perhaps it would deter some abusers and mark a line that sexual abuse is not acceptable in any form. Are there any women who have never been sexually assaulted? When I was younger and went to nightclubs and used public transport a lot I would have never been out of the police station if I reported it every time. Same. It still happens to me now as an adult. Two distinct times I can remember while out at a bar before lockdown. I deal with it differently now though and absolutely won't tolerate it. Same it's just not a weekly occurrence anymore because I'm not around people enough these days .
The thread has moved fast, but I just wanted to acknowledge what you've shared, Lacey. The situation with your brother must have been so difficult for you, and affected your relationship with your family permanently. You should have been protected. "Thank you | |||
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"Today Jess Phillips MP will read out the names of every UK woman killed by a man in the last year to highlight VAWG. This is the 7th year running she will have done this. I've read some of the stories and they're heartbreaking. I'd welcome discussion on this topic. *This thread is specifically about VAWG. If you want to discuss violence against men - please start another thread. I recognise that it's a huge issue. But this thread is about male violence against women. Please don't derail it. * The causes are deep rooted in modern western culture and laws that have put women in a vulnerable state and both men and women in a socially frustrated situation. There is no simple answer. But the society as a whole needs deep thinkers who could look where we went wrong. Look at the cultural changes in the past century that made women more vulnerable. Look at other cultures in the past and present where women were protected against such violence more efficiently. What happened to our moral code, habits, culture, spirituality ect. Too many factors at play. We have been indoctrinated that every social innovation of the modern days is good and everything that worked in the past for the collective is backward. Where/ when were women protected against violence more efficiently? Genuine question, not trying to be a dick. You took the words out of my mouth because I think in a lot of ways women are more protected now than they ever have been. Still. good enough but it's better than it was. That's a collective self rightousness that people have been told for demagogy and collective pride/nationalism. It's not backed by any statistical or unbiased scientific comparison. The statistics however tell a different story. Between present and past it's getting worse. Between this culture and others, this one is amongst the worst. That's just a fact. All this talk that "women in this country in present days are more keen to come out and report abuse" is not telling the whole story and is often used to deny the fact. Because if you deny the facts the whole claim that we are better than the "others" and better than "us in the past" will collapse. Lots of words, jumbled together like a word salad." ............................ With an acidic dressing | |||
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"The names of the women killed by men in 2020, read out in Parliament by Jess Phillips MP on the 10th March 2022. Data from The Femicide Census 2020. Abida Karim Amy-Leanne Stringfellow Aneta Zdun Ann Mowbray Aya Hachem Balvinder Gahir Bea Walker Bhavini Pravin Bibaa Henry Caroline Kayll Caroline Walker Cherith Van Der Ploeg Claire Parry Clare Nash Dawn Bennett Dawn Fletcher Debbie Zurick Deborah Jones/Hendrick Denise Keane Barnett Simmons Elsie Smith Emma McParland Esther Egbon Gemma Marjoram Gian Kaur Bhandal Gwendoline Bound Helen Almey Helen Bannister Hyacinth Morris Jackie (Jacqueline) Hoadley Jadwiga Szczygielsk Janice Child Janice Woolford Jasbir Kaur Judith Rhead Karolina Zinkeviciene Kate (Katherine) Bevan Katie Walker Kelly Fitzgibbons Kelly Price Kelly Stewart Kimberly Deakin Li Qing-Wang Lorraine Cox Louise Aitchison Louise Smith Lynda Cooper Magdalena Pacult Mandy Houghton Margaret Johnson Maria Howarth Marie Gladders Marta Vento Mary Haley Maryan Ismail Maureen Kidd Melissa Belshaw Najeeba Al-Ariqy Stella Frew Nelly Mustafa Nicole Smallman Nikoleta Zdun Paula Leather Poorna Kaameshwari-Sivaraj Rhonda Humphreys Rosemary Hill Ruth Brown Ruth Williams Saman Mir Sacharvi Sarah Smith Shelly Clark Silke Hartshorne Jones Suzanne Winnister Tracey Kidd Valerie Jozunas Vian Mangrio Victoria Woodhall Wendy Morse Yvonne 'Vonnie' Lawson McCann Zahida Bi " | |||
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"Today Jess Phillips MP will read out the names of every UK woman killed by a man in the last year to highlight VAWG. This is the 7th year running she will have done this. I've read some of the stories and they're heartbreaking. I'd welcome discussion on this topic. *This thread is specifically about VAWG. If you want to discuss violence against men - please start another thread. I recognise that it's a huge issue. But this thread is about male violence against women. Please don't derail it. * The causes are deep rooted in modern western culture and laws that have put women in a vulnerable state and both men and women in a socially frustrated situation. There is no simple answer. But the society as a whole needs deep thinkers who could look where we went wrong. Look at the cultural changes in the past century that made women more vulnerable. Look at other cultures in the past and present where women were protected against such violence more efficiently. What happened to our moral code, habits, culture, spirituality ect. Too many factors at play. We have been indoctrinated that every social innovation of the modern days is good and everything that worked in the past for the collective is backward. Where/ when were women protected against violence more efficiently? Genuine question, not trying to be a dick. You took the words out of my mouth because I think in a lot of ways women are more protected now than they ever have been. Still. good enough but it's better than it was. That's a collective self rightousness that people have been told for demagogy and collective pride/nationalism. It's not backed by any statistical or unbiased scientific comparison. The statistics however tell a different story. Between present and past it's getting worse. Between this culture and others, this one is amongst the worst. That's just a fact. All this talk that "women in this country in present days are more keen to come out and report abuse" is not telling the whole story and is often used to deny the fact. Because if you deny the facts the whole claim that we are better than the "others" and better than "us in the past" will collapse. It's absolutely not getting worse the difference is it is now illegal to hit your wife, To withhold property from her, To engage in non consensual sex for example. Laws have changed over the years and to be honest you are talking absolute nonsense. The statistics are telling a different story. Domestic violence is at its historical peak. No the reporting of domestic violence is at historical peak there is massive difference! And the insinuation that if what you are saying is true which it isn't is that because women want to be individuals that's why men are more violent towards them and that is a disgusting attitude. A murder of a woman by a family member or a husband didnt't go unreported in the past. With all the new laws that protect women it's getting much worse. You're trying to simplify an extremely complexe issue and reduce it into one factor. I never said that feminism is the problem. I said it's part of the problem. A woman in the past had more backing by her male members of her direct family, neighborhood, clan ect. Now she is a vulnerable individual in the jungle told that men are her enemy by feminists. That's part of the problem. " Sorry, but totally disagree. Depends on the family etc. when I grew up it was common place for the women to have black eyes, they didn’t like it, but they accepted it, as it was just the way men were. Men in the family may have postured to the abusive man, but then go home and do the same to their own spouses. Women don’t see men as their enemies, they see violent men as being in the wrong. That’s not feminism, it’s common decency, it’s equality, it’s morals. Men shouldn’t blame feminism, they should look internally and see if they are part of the problem. Violence isn’t the answer, it has never been the answer. I’m in no way a “militant” feminist (which I suspect is your idea of what a feminist is) but I am a female saying that I have the right to feel safe | |||
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" Exactly! Years ago the law protected men from prosecution, as a spouse couldn’t report her partner for sexual violence/physical assault, as she was his wife and couldn’t give evidence against her husband. Women were little more than chattel, and that was the 80’s! Where was the protective side of men then?" It went even later than that. The first time anything legal said “no, you can’t r@pe your wife” was in 1991. Marital r@pe wasn’t defined in law until 2003. | |||
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"The causes are deep rooted in modern western culture and laws that have put women in a vulnerable state and both men and women in a socially frustrated situation. There is no simple answer. But the society as a whole needs deep thinkers who could look where we went wrong. Look at the cultural changes in the past century that made women more vulnerable. Look at other cultures in the past and present where women were protected against such violence more efficiently. What happened to our moral code, habits, culture, spirituality ect. Too many factors at play. We have been indoctrinated that every social innovation of the modern days is good and everything that worked in the past for the collective is backward. Where/ when were women protected against violence more efficiently? Genuine question, not trying to be a dick. You took the words out of my mouth because I think in a lot of ways women are more protected now than they ever have been. Still. good enough but it's better than it was. That's a collective self rightousness that people have been told for demagogy and collective pride/nationalism. It's not backed by any statistical or unbiased scientific comparison. The statistics however tell a different story. Between present and past it's getting worse. Between this culture and others, this one is amongst the worst. That's just a fact. All this talk that "women in this country in present days are more keen to come out and report abuse" is not telling the whole story and is often used to deny the fact. Because if you deny the facts the whole claim that we are better than the "others" and better than "us in the past" will collapse. It's absolutely not getting worse the difference is it is now illegal to hit your wife, To withhold property from her, To engage in non consensual sex for example. Laws have changed over the years and to be honest you are talking absolute nonsense. The statistics are telling a different story. Domestic violence is at its historical peak. No the reporting of domestic violence is at historical peak there is massive difference! And the insinuation that if what you are saying is true which it isn't is that because women want to be individuals that's why men are more violent towards them and that is a disgusting attitude. A murder of a woman by a family member or a husband didnt't go unreported in the past. With all the new laws that protect women it's getting much worse. You're trying to simplify an extremely complexe issue and reduce it into one factor. I never said that feminism is the problem. I said it's part of the problem. A woman in the past had more backing by her male members of her direct family, neighborhood, clan ect. Now she is a vulnerable individual in the jungle told that men are her enemy by feminists. That's part of the problem. " "A vulnerable individual in the jungle told that men are her enemy by feminists". More crappy rhetoric.  | |||
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"Today Jess Phillips MP will read out the names of every UK woman killed by a man in the last year to highlight VAWG. This is the 7th year running she will have done this. I've read some of the stories and they're heartbreaking. I'd welcome discussion on this topic. *This thread is specifically about VAWG. If you want to discuss violence against men - please start another thread. I recognise that it's a huge issue. But this thread is about male violence against women. Please don't derail it. * The causes are deep rooted in modern western culture and laws that have put women in a vulnerable state and both men and women in a socially frustrated situation. There is no simple answer. But the society as a whole needs deep thinkers who could look where we went wrong. Look at the cultural changes in the past century that made women more vulnerable. Look at other cultures in the past and present where women were protected against such violence more efficiently. What happened to our moral code, habits, culture, spirituality ect. Too many factors at play. We have been indoctrinated that every social innovation of the modern days is good and everything that worked in the past for the collective is backward. Where/ when were women protected against violence more efficiently? Genuine question, not trying to be a dick. You took the words out of my mouth because I think in a lot of ways women are more protected now than they ever have been. Still. good enough but it's better than it was. That's a collective self rightousness that people have been told for demagogy and collective pride/nationalism. It's not backed by any statistical or unbiased scientific comparison. The statistics however tell a different story. Between present and past it's getting worse. Between this culture and others, this one is amongst the worst. That's just a fact. All this talk that "women in this country in present days are more keen to come out and report abuse" is not telling the whole story and is often used to deny the fact. Because if you deny the facts the whole claim that we are better than the "others" and better than "us in the past" will collapse. It's absolutely not getting worse the difference is it is now illegal to hit your wife, To withhold property from her, To engage in non consensual sex for example. Laws have changed over the years and to be honest you are talking absolute nonsense. The statistics are telling a different story. Domestic violence is at its historical peak. No the reporting of domestic violence is at historical peak there is massive difference! And the insinuation that if what you are saying is true which it isn't is that because women want to be individuals that's why men are more violent towards them and that is a disgusting attitude. A murder of a woman by a family member or a husband didnt't go unreported in the past. With all the new laws that protect women it's getting much worse. You're trying to simplify an extremely complexe issue and reduce it into one factor. I never said that feminism is the problem. I said it's part of the problem. A woman in the past had more backing by her male members of her direct family, neighborhood, clan ect. Now she is a vulnerable individual in the jungle told that men are her enemy by feminists. That's part of the problem. " No it isn't. My family is mostly male and most of my cousins are significantly older than me. If I needed backing or even physical protection I could easily get it. The problem is that abusers are smart enough to only abuse you in private. Feminists didn't teach me that men are the enemy. I don't believe men are the enemy. I am nervous of them until I know them well though. It was the men who abused me and sexually assaulted me who taught me to be fearful. | |||
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"Part of the problem is that the police have a very high incidence of domestic violence in their own families. Your average policeman does not care. Just look at how some of them treat women in public
Can you provide evidence of the high incidence of DA in police officer's families?
There has been several reports released recently that would back that statement up.
No they don't because the plural of anecdote is not data. What you have to show in order to back up the statement is that it is more prevalent in police officers than in society as a whole. "There’s not a lot of good research in the subject. The main study quoted in this subject is Neidig et al (1992). There are some concerns around the sample selection, but there is certainly a takeaway that points towards there being value in further study. Power imbalance is accepted as being an important factor in DA. Adding warranted powers and the other real and perceived power imbalances involved when someone is a police officer adds a whole other dynamic to any abuse. It also can’t be detached from the woeful approach taken by police and other parts of the justice system (on a systemic and individual basis) in ‘dealing with’ domestic abuse in the past. I do think some of the broad brush criticisms are unfair, but like the “all lives matter”, crowd, police would do well to recognise that the priority just now shouldn’t be “they said I’m bad, but I’m not”. The police response is significantly improving, clearly the vast majority of officers are not abusers and on the contrary are working to help victims (and apprehend perpetrators)… but it’s a consideration we can’t afford to be blind to. | |||
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