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War on SUVs
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By *ssex_tom OP Man
over a year ago
Chelmsford |
Reports that around 40 owners of SUVs in Kensington and Chelsea woke up to find their tyres slashed and notes on the windscreens telling them that if all SUV owners were combined as a country then they would be the 7th biggest polluting country in the world.
What's going on here folks. It's all over the news. Are SUV drivers who live in cities selfish polluting monsters or are these green types the real threat to our future |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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If people are conscious of their own eco impact and address that, as best as they can, they will make the world a better place. For those lacking education or interest, they may view it as their choice. It is criminal that people suffer in one part of the world because of choices of another part of the world, but that is not necessarily new either.
I also think electric cars are great but the infrastructure isn’t there yet for them.
I suppose cars are often not seen as a tool, more of a product etc so people want large engines or SUVs etc when they could have a one litre Vauxhall Corsa or whatever  |
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Fantastic foresight. Now the SUV owners will need to go buy some new tyres. That have been manufactured using machinery and raw materials. That have been shipped using transport that contributes to pollution. And then fitted using more energy. |
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"
I also think electric cars are great but the infrastructure isn’t there yet for them.
"
Great how?
Great because you don't have to see the massive mine in your back garden to get the materials for the battery?
Great because they can still use fossil fuels to generate the electricity to charge them, just not in your back yard?
Great because the battery elements aren't easily recyclable?
|
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"
I also think electric cars are great but the infrastructure isn’t there yet for them.
Great how?
Great because you don't have to see the massive mine in your back garden to get the materials for the battery?
Great because they can still use fossil fuels to generate the electricity to charge them, just not in your back yard?
Great because the battery elements aren't easily recyclable?
"
Great because they are a step away from fossil fuel combustion engines
They might not be perfect right now, but nothing is at the start.
But we can’t keep running on combustion based engines |
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"
I also think electric cars are great but the infrastructure isn’t there yet for them.
Great how?
Great because you don't have to see the massive mine in your back garden to get the materials for the battery?
Great because they can still use fossil fuels to generate the electricity to charge them, just not in your back yard?
Great because the battery elements aren't easily recyclable?
Great because they are a step away from fossil fuel combustion engines
They might not be perfect right now, but nothing is at the start.
But we can’t keep running on combustion based engines "
They are being sold as perfect. How many EV users realise the amount of time, water, money involved in mining the lithium for their "eco" cars? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
The irony is many its happened too are the low c02 models 
I drive a new landrover defender, i live in the country but travel to london mine produces 75-80c02, thats less than a econetic fiesta. Now i travel to london regularly and have had flyers stuck on my screen... the uneducated do gooders eh!  |
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By *omer47Man
over a year ago
leigh |
"The rich are trying to blame the poor for pollution
The poor aren’t the problem. Private jets, super yachts and taking people into outerspace for shits and giggles are the real problem "
exactly right. The government tells us we have to pay for this, that and the other, buy electric cars, we'll fined for this and that, when really its the super rich that are not complying with what they preach. Did Branson really have to build a rocket to go into space?,no, then the owner of amazon, (not to be out done),done the same thing. Think of all that pollution that entered the atmosphere just so some rich prick wanted to go into space. Then flying in a private jet home afterwards. |
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"Not the right approach but London pollution needs curbing.
Remember that asthmatic little girl who died as she lived by a major traffic route? Should never have happened."
yea I remember that do not understand why she lived there if it made her child ill why not move to the country side |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Having SUVs is a choice people are allowed to make regardless of others thoughts on the need for them.
Same as it's my choice to own 2 4+ litre v8s and I will avoid the transition to electric vehicles for as long as possible.
I really dont give a shit about what anyone thinks about that but it doesn't give anyone the right to damage my or others personal property in protest. |
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"Having SUVs is a choice people are allowed to make regardless of others thoughts on the need for them.
Same as it's my choice to own 2 4+ litre v8s and I will avoid the transition to electric vehicles for as long as possible.
I really dont give a shit about what anyone thinks about that but it doesn't give anyone the right to damage my or others personal property in protest."
 |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
I also think electric cars are great but the infrastructure isn’t there yet for them.
Great how?
Great because you don't have to see the massive mine in your back garden to get the materials for the battery?
Great because they can still use fossil fuels to generate the electricity to charge them, just not in your back yard?
Great because the battery elements aren't easily recyclable?
Great because they are a step away from fossil fuel combustion engines
They might not be perfect right now, but nothing is at the start.
But we can’t keep running on combustion based engines
They are being sold as perfect. How many EV users realise the amount of time, water, money involved in mining the lithium for their "eco" cars?"
Normal cars on the other hand grow on wild trees and are picked by eco volunteers who carefully make sure that they have been pollinated first to ensure next year's crop flourishes.
Out of interest have you looked into the total life cycle environmental cost of EV verses ICE or are you just repeating an argument you heard because it matches what you believe?
Mr |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I do feel that it's unnecessary for people who have these huge 4 x 4's in cities and only use them to do school runs, shopping trips etc. Why, what is the need. "
I live near a private school and they all trek in with their massive vehicles twice a day. Idling their engines waiting for their secondary school aged kids who could catch a bus home. It's a status thing.  |
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"
I also think electric cars are great but the infrastructure isn’t there yet for them.
Great how?
Great because you don't have to see the massive mine in your back garden to get the materials for the battery?
Great because they can still use fossil fuels to generate the electricity to charge them, just not in your back yard?
Great because the battery elements aren't easily recyclable?
Great because they are a step away from fossil fuel combustion engines
They might not be perfect right now, but nothing is at the start.
But we can’t keep running on combustion based engines
They are being sold as perfect. How many EV users realise the amount of time, water, money involved in mining the lithium for their "eco" cars?"
Probably not many, but the market dictates what happens
No market for EV cars, no improvements
So while they may not ne perfect now, what’s your alternative? Keep using combustion engines despite the fact we know they aren’t sustainable? |
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"
Out of interest have you looked into the total life cycle environmental cost of EV verses ICE or are you just repeating an argument you heard because it matches what you believe?
Mr"
Just a natural sceptic. The current push towards all EV just doesn't work. Not just the infrastructure, the tech isn't there yet either. Hybrids seem to be much more practical for most.
Have you got any details? From my basic understanding it all depends on where you get your energy from to recharge, if you are lucky to be 100% green then it's a win but depending on where you are in the world it could be 100% fossil fuel based and then the the emissions are almost identical to a diesel car. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Not the right approach but London pollution needs curbing.
Remember that asthmatic little girl who died as she lived by a major traffic route? Should never have happened. yea I remember that do not understand why she lived there if it made her child ill why not move to the country side"
Because not everyone can afford a little cottage in the countryside |
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"
I also think electric cars are great but the infrastructure isn’t there yet for them.
Great how?
Great because you don't have to see the massive mine in your back garden to get the materials for the battery?
Great because they can still use fossil fuels to generate the electricity to charge them, just not in your back yard?
Great because the battery elements aren't easily recyclable?
Great because they are a step away from fossil fuel combustion engines
They might not be perfect right now, but nothing is at the start.
But we can’t keep running on combustion based engines
They are being sold as perfect. How many EV users realise the amount of time, water, money involved in mining the lithium for their "eco" cars?
Probably not many, but the market dictates what happens
No market for EV cars, no improvements
So while they may not ne perfect now, what’s your alternative? Keep using combustion engines despite the fact we know they aren’t sustainable? "
I'm not suggesting an alternative, I'm suggesting the governments and EV manufacturers open up and be honest about the comparisons. They are not the silver bullet. |
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"Not the right approach but London pollution needs curbing.
Remember that asthmatic little girl who died as she lived by a major traffic route? Should never have happened. yea I remember that do not understand why she lived there if it made her child ill why not move to the country side
Because not everyone can afford a little cottage in the countryside "
will be cheaper then living in London on the south circular thing is these people don't want to change there lives but want everyone one else to |
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"
Out of interest have you looked into the total life cycle environmental cost of EV verses ICE or are you just repeating an argument you heard because it matches what you believe?
Mr
Just a natural sceptic. The current push towards all EV just doesn't work. Not just the infrastructure, the tech isn't there yet either. Hybrids seem to be much more practical for most.
Have you got any details? From my basic understanding it all depends on where you get your energy from to recharge, if you are lucky to be 100% green then it's a win but depending on where you are in the world it could be 100% fossil fuel based and then the the emissions are almost identical to a diesel car. "
I’d suggest you do the research into it instead of just being a skeptic for the sake of it
The infrastructure is slowly being solved with more and more cars being able to be charged off low voltage supplies
And even if the energy comes from 100% fossil fuels it’s always going to be better than a combustion engine because power plants are more efficient and have better abilities to tackle waste products
I do partly agree that the market is making out like they’ve already solved the problem, which they haven’t. But it’s a huge step in the right direction
Renewable sources of energy + nuclear energy is a huge step
More efficient and environmentally safer batteries are on their way too
Plus. Why be a skeptic when the alternative is to keep burning fossil fuels and spraying the waste out of an exhaust? |
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By *avie65Man
over a year ago
In the west. |
"Fantastic foresight. Now the SUV owners will need to go buy some new tyres. That have been manufactured using machinery and raw materials. That have been shipped using transport that contributes to pollution. And then fitted using more energy. "
.
As technology improved and has continued to improve these vehicles are more efficient than older models.
It is just vandalism. |
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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"
I also think electric cars are great but the infrastructure isn’t there yet for them.
Great how?
Great because you don't have to see the massive mine in your back garden to get the materials for the battery?
Great because they can still use fossil fuels to generate the electricity to charge them, just not in your back yard?
Great because the battery elements aren't easily recyclable?
Great because they are a step away from fossil fuel combustion engines
They might not be perfect right now, but nothing is at the start.
But we can’t keep running on combustion based engines
They are being sold as perfect. How many EV users realise the amount of time, water, money involved in mining the lithium for their "eco" cars?
Probably not many, but the market dictates what happens
No market for EV cars, no improvements
So while they may not ne perfect now, what’s your alternative? Keep using combustion engines despite the fact we know they aren’t sustainable?
I'm not suggesting an alternative, I'm suggesting the governments and EV manufacturers open up and be honest about the comparisons. They are not the silver bullet. "
The move away from the traditional combustion engine isn't going to happen over night.
EV's are the first step on a long journey to an end game of driverless automated cars that people wont necessarily own.
You are witnessing the start of this and we probably wont get to witness the end state, but change must start somewhere. |
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"
Out of interest have you looked into the total life cycle environmental cost of EV verses ICE or are you just repeating an argument you heard because it matches what you believe?
Mr
Just a natural sceptic. The current push towards all EV just doesn't work. Not just the infrastructure, the tech isn't there yet either. Hybrids seem to be much more practical for most.
Have you got any details? From my basic understanding it all depends on where you get your energy from to recharge, if you are lucky to be 100% green then it's a win but depending on where you are in the world it could be 100% fossil fuel based and then the the emissions are almost identical to a diesel car.
I’d suggest you do the research into it instead of just being a skeptic for the sake of it
The infrastructure is slowly being solved with more and more cars being able to be charged off low voltage supplies
And even if the energy comes from 100% fossil fuels it’s always going to be better than a combustion engine because power plants are more efficient and have better abilities to tackle waste products
I do partly agree that the market is making out like they’ve already solved the problem, which they haven’t. But it’s a huge step in the right direction
Renewable sources of energy + nuclear energy is a huge step
More efficient and environmentally safer batteries are on their way too
Plus. Why be a skeptic when the alternative is to keep burning fossil fuels and spraying the waste out of an exhaust? "
Why not be a sceptic? Questioning things is how we develop technology.
|
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"
Out of interest have you looked into the total life cycle environmental cost of EV verses ICE or are you just repeating an argument you heard because it matches what you believe?
Mr
Just a natural sceptic. The current push towards all EV just doesn't work. Not just the infrastructure, the tech isn't there yet either. Hybrids seem to be much more practical for most.
Have you got any details? From my basic understanding it all depends on where you get your energy from to recharge, if you are lucky to be 100% green then it's a win but depending on where you are in the world it could be 100% fossil fuel based and then the the emissions are almost identical to a diesel car.
I’d suggest you do the research into it instead of just being a skeptic for the sake of it
The infrastructure is slowly being solved with more and more cars being able to be charged off low voltage supplies
And even if the energy comes from 100% fossil fuels it’s always going to be better than a combustion engine because power plants are more efficient and have better abilities to tackle waste products
I do partly agree that the market is making out like they’ve already solved the problem, which they haven’t. But it’s a huge step in the right direction
Renewable sources of energy + nuclear energy is a huge step
More efficient and environmentally safer batteries are on their way too
Plus. Why be a skeptic when the alternative is to keep burning fossil fuels and spraying the waste out of an exhaust?
Why not be a sceptic? Questioning things is how we develop technology.
"
Why not be a skeptic about something you haven’t researched?
That doesn’t develop technology
Like if you had something to add it would be great.
But “I’m just being a skeptic” with nothing back it up?
I’ll let you decide |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
There was a summit recently where most if not all the delegates had electric cars ..ok...but there wasn't enough power points in that City ..so what charged the Cars ? They used diesel generators, so much for Electric cars.  |
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"There was a summit recently where most if not all the delegates had electric cars ..ok...but there wasn't enough power points in that City ..so what charged the Cars ? They used diesel generators, so much for Electric cars. "
Sometimes it’s the thought that counts
Obviously right now out of context, yes that’s dumb
But pushing EV cars in the long run is a huge step in curbing climate change
That means that in the early stages silly things like that happens.
But overall the push for EV cars is good. You’ll always get people that know nothing about them slate them because they don’t have the intelligence to look any further than their nose.
The change to EV cars is a long game. As another poster said, we might not even see the outcome in our life times. But it’s the only answer we have right now to get off fossil fuels |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
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"
Out of interest have you looked into the total life cycle environmental cost of EV verses ICE or are you just repeating an argument you heard because it matches what you believe?
Mr
Just a natural sceptic. The current push towards all EV just doesn't work. Not just the infrastructure, the tech isn't there yet either. Hybrids seem to be much more practical for most.
Have you got any details? From my basic understanding it all depends on where you get your energy from to recharge, if you are lucky to be 100% green then it's a win but depending on where you are in the world it could be 100% fossil fuel based and then the the emissions are almost identical to a diesel car.
I’d suggest you do the research into it instead of just being a skeptic for the sake of it
The infrastructure is slowly being solved with more and more cars being able to be charged off low voltage supplies
And even if the energy comes from 100% fossil fuels it’s always going to be better than a combustion engine because power plants are more efficient and have better abilities to tackle waste products
I do partly agree that the market is making out like they’ve already solved the problem, which they haven’t. But it’s a huge step in the right direction
Renewable sources of energy + nuclear energy is a huge step
More efficient and environmentally safer batteries are on their way too
Plus. Why be a skeptic when the alternative is to keep burning fossil fuels and spraying the waste out of an exhaust?
Why not be a sceptic? Questioning things is how we develop technology.
Why not be a skeptic about something you haven’t researched?
That doesn’t develop technology
Like if you had something to add it would be great.
But “I’m just being a skeptic” with nothing back it up?
I’ll let you decide "
Have or haven't? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"There was a summit recently where most if not all the delegates had electric cars ..ok...but there wasn't enough power points in that City ..so what charged the Cars ? They used diesel generators, so much for Electric cars.
Sometimes it’s the thought that counts
Obviously right now out of context, yes that’s dumb
But pushing EV cars in the long run is a huge step in curbing climate change
That means that in the early stages silly things like that happens.
But overall the push for EV cars is good. You’ll always get people that know nothing about them slate them because they don’t have the intelligence to look any further than their nose.
The change to EV cars is a long game. As another poster said, we might not even see the outcome in our life times. But it’s the only answer we have right now to get off fossil fuels"
We will ALL eventually have electric cars , it's only a matter of time before each Government want nothing but electric cars on the roads but with the population in each country driving it's nigh on impossible but they will try , it's like the guy from Finland who burnt out his Tesla , he needed a new battery for his car .." No problem , it'll cost you €20,000 " was his reply , so he burnt it out . |
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"There was a summit recently where most if not all the delegates had electric cars ..ok...but there wasn't enough power points in that City ..so what charged the Cars ? They used diesel generators, so much for Electric cars.
Sometimes it’s the thought that counts
Obviously right now out of context, yes that’s dumb
But pushing EV cars in the long run is a huge step in curbing climate change
That means that in the early stages silly things like that happens.
But overall the push for EV cars is good. You’ll always get people that know nothing about them slate them because they don’t have the intelligence to look any further than their nose.
The change to EV cars is a long game. As another poster said, we might not even see the outcome in our life times. But it’s the only answer we have right now to get off fossil fuels
We will ALL eventually have electric cars , it's only a matter of time before each Government want nothing but electric cars on the roads but with the population in each country driving it's nigh on impossible but they will try , it's like the guy from Finland who burnt out his Tesla , he needed a new battery for his car .." No problem , it'll cost you €20,000 " was his reply , so he burnt it out ."
Why do you think it’s impossible for everyone to have EV cars eventually?
Gas boilers are due to phased out too. 2030 is when they plan to stop installing gas boilers |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
I also think electric cars are great but the infrastructure isn’t there yet for them.
Great how?
Great because you don't have to see the massive mine in your back garden to get the materials for the battery?
Great because they can still use fossil fuels to generate the electricity to charge them, just not in your back yard?
Great because the battery elements aren't easily recyclable?
Great because they are a step away from fossil fuel combustion engines
They might not be perfect right now, but nothing is at the start.
But we can’t keep running on combustion based engines
They are being sold as perfect. How many EV users realise the amount of time, water, money involved in mining the lithium for their "eco" cars?"
Was query on radio 4 yesterday by a listener. They got a professional on from an academic institute on.
For energy related items (only) it takes 40% more energy to produce EV than a normal combustion vehicle.
Payback in terms of energy usage is between 2-4 years (dependent on the way the electricity is produced) to balance the extra energy produced. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"There was a summit recently where most if not all the delegates had electric cars ..ok...but there wasn't enough power points in that City ..so what charged the Cars ? They used diesel generators, so much for Electric cars.
Sometimes it’s the thought that counts
Obviously right now out of context, yes that’s dumb
But pushing EV cars in the long run is a huge step in curbing climate change
That means that in the early stages silly things like that happens.
But overall the push for EV cars is good. You’ll always get people that know nothing about them slate them because they don’t have the intelligence to look any further than their nose.
The change to EV cars is a long game. As another poster said, we might not even see the outcome in our life times. But it’s the only answer we have right now to get off fossil fuels
We will ALL eventually have electric cars , it's only a matter of time before each Government want nothing but electric cars on the roads but with the population in each country driving it's nigh on impossible but they will try , it's like the guy from Finland who burnt out his Tesla , he needed a new battery for his car .." No problem , it'll cost you €20,000 " was his reply , so he burnt it out .
Why do you think it’s impossible for everyone to have EV cars eventually?
Gas boilers are due to phased out too. 2030 is when they plan to stop installing gas boilers "
What will run them ,? .. Eventually means eventually, we will not see it in my life time or maybe not yours , wanting one thing and getting it are two different matters altogether, the practically of it is mind boggling, you live where you live but take a city like LA , it's a lot lot bigger and densely populated that you think , lm talking world wide . |
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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"
I also think electric cars are great but the infrastructure isn’t there yet for them.
Great how?
Great because you don't have to see the massive mine in your back garden to get the materials for the battery?
Great because they can still use fossil fuels to generate the electricity to charge them, just not in your back yard?
Great because the battery elements aren't easily recyclable?
Great because they are a step away from fossil fuel combustion engines
They might not be perfect right now, but nothing is at the start.
But we can’t keep running on combustion based engines
They are being sold as perfect. How many EV users realise the amount of time, water, money involved in mining the lithium for their "eco" cars?
Was query on radio 4 yesterday by a listener. They got a professional on from an academic institute on.
For energy related items (only) it takes 40% more energy to produce EV than a normal combustion vehicle.
Payback in terms of energy usage is between 2-4 years (dependent on the way the electricity is produced) to balance the extra energy produced."
Probably a short term view, as we develop technologies further, more efficiency will be achieved.
Don't forget the UK strategy is turning to nuclear for energy, oil is going. |
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"There was a summit recently where most if not all the delegates had electric cars ..ok...but there wasn't enough power points in that City ..so what charged the Cars ? They used diesel generators, so much for Electric cars.
Sometimes it’s the thought that counts
Obviously right now out of context, yes that’s dumb
But pushing EV cars in the long run is a huge step in curbing climate change
That means that in the early stages silly things like that happens.
But overall the push for EV cars is good. You’ll always get people that know nothing about them slate them because they don’t have the intelligence to look any further than their nose.
The change to EV cars is a long game. As another poster said, we might not even see the outcome in our life times. But it’s the only answer we have right now to get off fossil fuels
We will ALL eventually have electric cars , it's only a matter of time before each Government want nothing but electric cars on the roads but with the population in each country driving it's nigh on impossible but they will try , it's like the guy from Finland who burnt out his Tesla , he needed a new battery for his car .." No problem , it'll cost you €20,000 " was his reply , so he burnt it out .
Why do you think it’s impossible for everyone to have EV cars eventually?
Gas boilers are due to phased out too. 2030 is when they plan to stop installing gas boilers
What will run them ,? .. Eventually means eventually, we will not see it in my life time or maybe not yours , wanting one thing and getting it are two different matters altogether, the practically of it is mind boggling, you live where you live but take a city like LA , it's a lot lot bigger and densely populated that you think , lm talking world wide ."
Sorry I don’t understand your point
Electricity will run them |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
I also think electric cars are great but the infrastructure isn’t there yet for them.
Great how?
Great because you don't have to see the massive mine in your back garden to get the materials for the battery?
Great because they can still use fossil fuels to generate the electricity to charge them, just not in your back yard?
Great because the battery elements aren't easily recyclable?
Great because they are a step away from fossil fuel combustion engines
They might not be perfect right now, but nothing is at the start.
But we can’t keep running on combustion based engines
They are being sold as perfect. How many EV users realise the amount of time, water, money involved in mining the lithium for their "eco" cars?
Was query on radio 4 yesterday by a listener. They got a professional on from an academic institute on.
For energy related items (only) it takes 40% more energy to produce EV than a normal combustion vehicle.
Payback in terms of energy usage is between 2-4 years (dependent on the way the electricity is produced) to balance the extra energy produced.
Probably a short term view, as we develop technologies further, more efficiency will be achieved.
Don't forget the UK strategy is turning to nuclear for energy, oil is going. "
My post was not a judgement either way. Just an interesting fact that i had heard recently. Ultimately improvements will be made in terms of fuel sources for electricity and EV or hydrogen power etc.
The world generally accepts the problem with carbon based fuel.
Its up to the scientists and engineers and government to produce viable alternative.
And ourselves to reduce consumption |
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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"
I also think electric cars are great but the infrastructure isn’t there yet for them.
Great how?
Great because you don't have to see the massive mine in your back garden to get the materials for the battery?
Great because they can still use fossil fuels to generate the electricity to charge them, just not in your back yard?
Great because the battery elements aren't easily recyclable?
Great because they are a step away from fossil fuel combustion engines
They might not be perfect right now, but nothing is at the start.
But we can’t keep running on combustion based engines
They are being sold as perfect. How many EV users realise the amount of time, water, money involved in mining the lithium for their "eco" cars?
Was query on radio 4 yesterday by a listener. They got a professional on from an academic institute on.
For energy related items (only) it takes 40% more energy to produce EV than a normal combustion vehicle.
Payback in terms of energy usage is between 2-4 years (dependent on the way the electricity is produced) to balance the extra energy produced.
Probably a short term view, as we develop technologies further, more efficiency will be achieved.
Don't forget the UK strategy is turning to nuclear for energy, oil is going.
My post was not a judgement either way. Just an interesting fact that i had heard recently. Ultimately improvements will be made in terms of fuel sources for electricity and EV or hydrogen power etc.
The world generally accepts the problem with carbon based fuel.
Its up to the scientists and engineers and government to produce viable alternative.
And ourselves to reduce consumption"
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Its been interesting reading everyones replies as its a area i work in.
The issue everyone is missing is that the whole process of this electric vehicle drive is to improove air quality, not necessarily to be 100% green. Now The Climate Change Act has quoted zero net emissions by 2050.. anyone with half a brain knows thats impossible, so the hard drive is to reduce globally.
Electric is the future, be it hybrid or full electric, we will have to burn fossil fuels for transport.
infrastructure investment is massive, batteries can be recycled now (ive just set up a 15 year contract with a uk lithium regeneration company) its truly remarkable how fast tech is moving in this area, we've developed a electric rail system that can run 33 hours between charges via regen braking & 'G' regen the system recharges while braking, cornering, and coasting via traction disengagement.
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"Its been interesting reading everyones replies as its a area i work in.
The issue everyone is missing is that the whole process of this electric vehicle drive is to improove air quality, not necessarily to be 100% green. Now The Climate Change Act has quoted zero net emissions by 2050.. anyone with half a brain knows thats impossible, so the hard drive is to reduce globally.
Electric is the future, be it hybrid or full electric, we will have to burn fossil fuels for transport.
infrastructure investment is massive, batteries can be recycled now (ive just set up a 15 year contract with a uk lithium regeneration company) its truly remarkable how fast tech is moving in this area, we've developed a electric rail system that can run 33 hours between charges via regen braking & 'G' regen the system recharges while braking, cornering, and coasting via traction disengagement.
"
Very interesting stuff!
Glad someone in the know has chimed in
You see a lot of stuff out there that electric cars do more harm then good to the environment
Does that hold any truth? Is it an old truth that isn’t true now with advancements? Or is it just rubbish overall? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Its been interesting reading everyones replies as its a area i work in.
The issue everyone is missing is that the whole process of this electric vehicle drive is to improove air quality, not necessarily to be 100% green. Now The Climate Change Act has quoted zero net emissions by 2050.. anyone with half a brain knows thats impossible, so the hard drive is to reduce globally.
Electric is the future, be it hybrid or full electric, we will have to burn fossil fuels for transport.
infrastructure investment is massive, batteries can be recycled now (ive just set up a 15 year contract with a uk lithium regeneration company) its truly remarkable how fast tech is moving in this area, we've developed a electric rail system that can run 33 hours between charges via regen braking & 'G' regen the system recharges while braking, cornering, and coasting via traction disengagement.
Very interesting stuff!
Glad someone in the know has chimed in
You see a lot of stuff out there that electric cars do more harm then good to the environment
Does that hold any truth? Is it an old truth that isn’t true now with advancements? Or is it just rubbish overall? "
The mining for lithium is i suppose as bad as it gets however mining has happened for 100s of years its nothing new and post mined areas are developed & replanted. While the demand is high atm in the future demand will drop as batterys will be recycled. The importance is that air quality will improve. The way i see it is practically everything is harmfull to the environment in some way or another.
Unfortunately the uneducated battle with anything thats done nowdays. you only have to look at smog issues in the 60s compared to now, theres more cars on the road now but co2 output overall is lower than it was in the swinging 60s and we continue to advance via technological & scientific advances.
Itd be lovely to run on hydrogen and its possible but is far too unstable.
Ive always said the world works on magnets, so why cant technology? Well now it is when used with electric to create 'regen' |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"There was a summit recently where most if not all the delegates had electric cars ..ok...but there wasn't enough power points in that City ..so what charged the Cars ? They used diesel generators, so much for Electric cars.
Sometimes it’s the thought that counts
Obviously right now out of context, yes that’s dumb
But pushing EV cars in the long run is a huge step in curbing climate change
That means that in the early stages silly things like that happens.
But overall the push for EV cars is good. You’ll always get people that know nothing about them slate them because they don’t have the intelligence to look any further than their nose.
The change to EV cars is a long game. As another poster said, we might not even see the outcome in our life times. But it’s the only answer we have right now to get off fossil fuels
We will ALL eventually have electric cars , it's only a matter of time before each Government want nothing but electric cars on the roads but with the population in each country driving it's nigh on impossible but they will try , it's like the guy from Finland who burnt out his Tesla , he needed a new battery for his car .." No problem , it'll cost you €20,000 " was his reply , so he burnt it out .
Why do you think it’s impossible for everyone to have EV cars eventually?
Gas boilers are due to phased out too. 2030 is when they plan to stop installing gas boilers
What will run them ,? .. Eventually means eventually, we will not see it in my life time or maybe not yours , wanting one thing and getting it are two different matters altogether, the practically of it is mind boggling, you live where you live but take a city like LA , it's a lot lot bigger and densely populated that you think , lm talking world wide .
Sorry I don’t understand your point
Electricity will run them "
My point is there won't be enough points throughout the world atm to run them , my point was provided at the recent delegation , there wasn't enough power points in that city to run them all when they converged in that city , the same problem will arrive when they try to introduce them all of a shot , they will eventually be a norm..but eventually. |
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"The rich are trying to blame the poor for pollution
The poor aren’t the problem. Private jets, super yachts and taking people into outerspace for shits and giggles are the real problem "
Neither.
Consumers are the cause.
They come in all levels of wealth |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The rich are trying to blame the poor for pollution
The poor aren’t the problem. Private jets, super yachts and taking people into outerspace for shits and giggles are the real problem "
Lol. You are funny |
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"Reports that around 40 owners of SUVs in Kensington and Chelsea woke up to find their tyres slashed and notes on the windscreens telling them that if all SUV owners were combined as a country then they would be the 7th biggest polluting country in the world.
What's going on here folks. It's all over the news. Are SUV drivers who live in cities selfish polluting monsters or are these green types the real threat to our future"
Selfish twats... I think everybody else should make efforts to pollute less but let me keep my SUV so I can drive 2 miles to waitrose and pick up my fresh vegan produce shipped in from Australia, Chile, Portugal, Morocco, Spain and China. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Reports that around 40 owners of SUVs in Kensington and Chelsea woke up to find their tyres slashed and notes on the windscreens telling them that if all SUV owners were combined as a country then they would be the 7th biggest polluting country in the world.
What's going on here folks. It's all over the news. Are SUV drivers who live in cities selfish polluting monsters or are these green types the real threat to our future
Selfish twats... I think everybody else should make efforts to pollute less but let me keep my SUV so I can drive 2 miles to waitrose and pick up my fresh vegan produce shipped in from Australia, Chile, Portugal, Morocco, Spain and China. "
Lol...Another funny one. |
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I think more people would be going for electric if they were not so expensive even with some of the subsidies that have been around. Unless someone can correct me, and will be happy about that as I have limited knowledge, if you want something comparable to what you have, you certainly have to pay substantially more for an electric one. |
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By *ssex_tom OP Man
over a year ago
Chelmsford |
Wait until they get everyone on electric and see the price rocket. Same when they tried getting everyone onto the environmentaly cleaner diesel.
I blame Blair and Brown for this mess personally . |
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I heard an ad for electric cars on the radio. They state at the end "in small print" that zero emissions relates to exhaust gasses only.
They are only as green as how they are made and how the electric is produced. |
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By *ssex_tom OP Man
over a year ago
Chelmsford |
"I heard an ad for electric cars on the radio. They state at the end "in small print" that zero emissions relates to exhaust gasses only.
Do they have exhaust gases in the electric cars.. ?
They are only as green as how they are made and how the electric is produced. "
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"
I also think electric cars are great but the infrastructure isn’t there yet for them.
Great how?
Great because you don't have to see the massive mine in your back garden to get the materials for the battery?
Great because they can still use fossil fuels to generate the electricity to charge them, just not in your back yard?
Great because the battery elements aren't easily recyclable?
"
Lots of morldern Ev's battery packs don't use much rare earth material, and most modern ones don't in the motor either (mine doesn't for example)
Yes some energy is fossil, but I have mine on Octopus go, charging in the green hours
Battery recycling is much more advanced than you think, most cell packs now have a 20+ year life
Do a little research, and not on the sun or the mirror websites..... |
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By *ssex_tom OP Man
over a year ago
Chelmsford |
"
I also think electric cars are great but the infrastructure isn’t there yet for them.
Great how?
Great because you don't have to see the massive mine in your back garden to get the materials for the battery?
Great because they can still use fossil fuels to generate the electricity to charge them, just not in your back yard?
Great because the battery elements aren't easily recyclable?
Lots of morldern Ev's battery packs don't use much rare earth material, and most modern ones don't in the motor either (mine doesn't for example)
Yes some energy is fossil, but I have mine on Octopus go, charging in the green hours
Battery recycling is much more advanced than you think, most cell packs now have a 20+ year life
Do a little research, and not on the sun or the mirror websites..... "
This octopus energy seems to have a lot of fingers in many pies.. not sure I trust . |
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"Reports that around 40 owners of SUVs in Kensington and Chelsea woke up to find their tyres slashed and notes on the windscreens telling them that if all SUV owners were combined as a country then they would be the 7th biggest polluting country in the world.
What's going on here folks. It's all over the news. Are SUV drivers who live in cities selfish polluting monsters or are these green types the real threat to our future"
That is nuts most of the big pickups now are 2.3 engines, there are mercs and BMW with far bigger engines. |
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"I think more people would be going for electric if they were not so expensive even with some of the subsidies that have been around. Unless someone can correct me, and will be happy about that as I have limited knowledge, if you want something comparable to what you have, you certainly have to pay substantially more for an electric one. "
Base price is getting better, also ownership over life is a Lot cheaper.
For example, 1000m in petrol version of mine calculates (fuel at 1.45) to 330,same in mine? 15... Just shows |
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"Most of these so called SUV are not off road vehicles ...
They would get stuck in the mud.. "
That I agree on, mainly due to having road tyres, most have competent drive lines. But owners wouldn't want to wash em anyhow.
I like the space, makes life easier etc. |
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By *orny PTMan
over a year ago
Peterborough |
"Not the right approach but London pollution needs curbing.
Remember that asthmatic little girl who died as she lived by a major traffic route? Should never have happened."
I remember a nurse on telly, that hated drivers that sat in their vehicle for 30 minutes, keeping the engines running.
When the weather is nice there's no need to just waste fuel like this. |
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By *ssex_tom OP Man
over a year ago
Chelmsford |
"Not the right approach but London pollution needs curbing.
Remember that asthmatic little girl who died as she lived by a major traffic route? Should never have happened.
I remember a nurse on telly, that hated drivers that sat in their vehicle for 30 minutes, keeping the engines running.
When the weather is nice there's no need to just waste fuel like this."
Which nurse? |
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"…. when they could have a one litre Vauxhall Corsa or whatever "
Look, I’m as eco friendly as possible, am vegan, drive a hybrid, try to have as low an energy footprint as possible and while I totally agree about personal responsibility regarding our individual footprint… there is absolutely no need to resort to a Vauxhall, corsa or other model! |
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By *orny PTMan
over a year ago
Peterborough |
"Weird thing is many new large cars now have engines that emit less co2/no2 than older smaller saloons and hatchbacks. "
Cleaner engines, no argument there, but they are bigger, so more metal, rubber, electrics and paint needed to build them.
My gripe is the elevated headlamps, this means their beams are in my line of sight. Daytime running lights make driving less safe. |
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By *orny PTMan
over a year ago
Peterborough |
"…. when they could have a one litre Vauxhall Corsa or whatever
Look, I’m as eco friendly as possible, am vegan, drive a hybrid, try to have as low an energy footprint as possible and while I totally agree about personal responsibility regarding our individual footprint… there is absolutely no need to resort to a Vauxhall, corsa or other model!"
Vauxhall? (Shudders) no thanks. |
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"Weird thing is many new large cars now have engines that emit less co2/no2 than older smaller saloons and hatchbacks.
Cleaner engines, no argument there, but they are bigger, so more metal, rubber, electrics and paint needed to build them.
My gripe is the elevated headlamps, this means their beams are in my line of sight. Daytime running lights make driving less safe."
If your being dazzled by DRL's I'd have an eye check, not being funny but they shouldn't cause issues.
As for high, yes they are but even most 'base' cars of the size of the aforementioned corsa now have higher lights as well, at least on modern MPV etc they are usually steering ones that anti dazzle. |
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By *orny PTMan
over a year ago
Peterborough |
"Not the right approach but London pollution needs curbing.
Remember that asthmatic little girl who died as she lived by a major traffic route? Should never have happened.
I remember a nurse on telly, that hated drivers that sat in their vehicle for 30 minutes, keeping the engines running.
When the weather is nice there's no need to just waste fuel like this.
Which nurse? "
I can find her details at the moment, but this subject did get a mention in Nursing Times.
"Tackling air pollution is vital for public health, say nurses"
23 FEBRUARY, 2016 Can't post the link here  |
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"Not the right approach but London pollution needs curbing.
Remember that asthmatic little girl who died as she lived by a major traffic route? Should never have happened.
I remember a nurse on telly, that hated drivers that sat in their vehicle for 30 minutes, keeping the engines running.
When the weather is nice there's no need to just waste fuel like this.
Which nurse?
I can find her details at the moment, but this subject did get a mention in Nursing Times.
"Tackling air pollution is vital for public health, say nurses"
23 FEBRUARY, 2016 Can't post the link here "
In the last 10 years most new cars will have had stop/start tech, idling for 30 mins is a thing of the past |
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"Its been interesting reading everyones replies as its a area i work in.
The issue everyone is missing is that the whole process of this electric vehicle drive is to improove air quality, not necessarily to be 100% green. Now The Climate Change Act has quoted zero net emissions by 2050.. anyone with half a brain knows thats impossible, so the hard drive is to reduce globally.
Electric is the future, be it hybrid or full electric, we will have to burn fossil fuels for transport.
infrastructure investment is massive, batteries can be recycled now (ive just set up a 15 year contract with a uk lithium regeneration company) its truly remarkable how fast tech is moving in this area, we've developed a electric rail system that can run 33 hours between charges via regen braking & 'G' regen the system recharges while braking, cornering, and coasting via traction disengagement.
Very interesting stuff!
Glad someone in the know has chimed in
You see a lot of stuff out there that electric cars do more harm then good to the environment
Does that hold any truth? Is it an old truth that isn’t true now with advancements? Or is it just rubbish overall?
The mining for lithium is i suppose as bad as it gets however mining has happened for 100s of years its nothing new and post mined areas are developed & replanted. While the demand is high atm in the future demand will drop as batterys will be recycled. The importance is that air quality will improve. The way i see it is practically everything is harmfull to the environment in some way or another.
Unfortunately the uneducated battle with anything thats done nowdays. you only have to look at smog issues in the 60s compared to now, theres more cars on the road now but co2 output overall is lower than it was in the swinging 60s and we continue to advance via technological & scientific advances.
Itd be lovely to run on hydrogen and its possible but is far too unstable.
Ive always said the world works on magnets, so why cant technology? Well now it is when used with electric to create 'regen' "
So I guess the end goal is getting as much clean energy as possible and maximising efficiency through the regeneration stuff?
I’m glad there’s a push for this stuff. As you said the technology is moving incredibly quick and in a free market the more demand there is for something the faster it advances. Hopefully as things move along the negative myths you hear about EV cars fades away and the ball can keep rolling and gathering speed |
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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
"Its been interesting reading everyones replies as its a area i work in.
The issue everyone is missing is that the whole process of this electric vehicle drive is to improove air quality, not necessarily to be 100% green. Now The Climate Change Act has quoted zero net emissions by 2050.. anyone with half a brain knows thats impossible, so the hard drive is to reduce globally.
Electric is the future, be it hybrid or full electric, we will have to burn fossil fuels for transport.
infrastructure investment is massive, batteries can be recycled now (ive just set up a 15 year contract with a uk lithium regeneration company) its truly remarkable how fast tech is moving in this area, we've developed a electric rail system that can run 33 hours between charges via regen braking & 'G' regen the system recharges while braking, cornering, and coasting via traction disengagement.
"
I love this technology it really is a game changer and you must love being on the cutting edge of it? I think the whole picture is so interesting too, not only as you say will it provide a cleaner air environment, I think it will possibly change the way people interact / own cars and the big one, remove our dependencies on the oil producing countries. |
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All I ask in the move to electric vehicles is that people who design the infrastructure and vehicles need to remember to make it accessible to disabled drivers. Currently EV charging in public areas are almost exclusively NOT accessible and cannot be operated by people with mobility problems, in wheelchairs etc. Think about kerbs, weight of charge cables, dexterity required to operate them and the machines etc etc. Also ease of adaptation e.g hand operated acceleration and braking. And boot space. We need decent boot space please (like estate car boot space).
Ta |
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By *ssex_tom OP Man
over a year ago
Chelmsford |
"All I ask in the move to electric vehicles is that people who design the infrastructure and vehicles need to remember to make it accessible to disabled drivers. Currently EV charging in public areas are almost exclusively NOT accessible and cannot be operated by people with mobility problems, in wheelchairs etc. Think about kerbs, weight of charge cables, dexterity required to operate them and the machines etc etc. Also ease of adaptation e.g hand operated acceleration and braking. And boot space. We need decent boot space please (like estate car boot space).
Ta "
For once, Essex Tom agrees with you.. (gritted teeth) x |
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"All I ask in the move to electric vehicles is that people who design the infrastructure and vehicles need to remember to make it accessible to disabled drivers. Currently EV charging in public areas are almost exclusively NOT accessible and cannot be operated by people with mobility problems, in wheelchairs etc. Think about kerbs, weight of charge cables, dexterity required to operate them and the machines etc etc. Also ease of adaptation e.g hand operated acceleration and braking. And boot space. We need decent boot space please (like estate car boot space).
Ta "
This I agree with, I have a disabled badge, and if want to charge have to park litteraly the furthest away. Not so bad in a MWS/Rapid where I'm only there for 15 mins, but if on destination chargers always in the worst part of the car park.
Hopefully something will change, but hey... |
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By *orny PTMan
over a year ago
Peterborough |
Why to EV points not have any sort of rain shelter. You wouldn't fill up with petrol/diesel/lpg in the rain?
No!
You'd want to stand under a forecourt canopy.
Yes, I do know of some village garage pumps that buck this trend.
|
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"Why to EV points not have any sort of rain shelter. You wouldn't fill up with petrol/diesel/lpg in the rain?
No!
You'd want to stand under a forecourt canopy.
Yes, I do know of some village garage pumps that buck this trend.
"
But you don't stand there and fill up do you? Not for 30 mins whilst it charges. Plug it in and sit in the car or go get a coffee isn't it?
But they are very much an afterthought, where can we fit a charging point, in that parking space. |
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By *orny PTMan
over a year ago
Peterborough |
"After they spent years telling us diesel cars were much better than petrol I do wonder how long it’ll take until they say an EV isn’t eco friendly.
I blaim Blair and Brown"
Ecological or economical?
No one has mentioned that wages dictate the shift from fossil fuels to electric vehicles. The second hand market is yet to form a sizeable, affordable and feasible alternative. I cant't get the finance for a new car now, let alone next year when the clock is ticking, extra demand will need to be supplied, before the car market replicates the housing market. |
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"Why to EV points not have any sort of rain shelter. You wouldn't fill up with petrol/diesel/lpg in the rain?
No!
You'd want to stand under a forecourt canopy.
Yes, I do know of some village garage pumps that buck this trend.
But you don't stand there and fill up do you? Not for 30 mins whilst it charges. Plug it in and sit in the car or go get a coffee isn't it?
But they are very much an afterthought, where can we fit a charging point, in that parking space."
Never mind the rain. Many EV charging points are set up on kerbs or raised platforms, not possible for a wheelchair user to get up to the machine to operate it. How do you wheel yourself back around to the charging port whilst holding/carrying a charging cable? They are very bulky. I've never seen an EV charging bay that is set out for a disabled user, i.e wider bay with hatched areas at the side to fully open doors etc. And then, places to charge may not be accessible for the disabled user to get inside for a coffee, while they wait.
Then, there's the vehicles themselves. |
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"QI chargers for electric vehicle? Is it beyond the realms of possibility?"
Not at all. Just needs upscaling. I even read an article about wireless charging whilst you drive, roads have the tech embedded in them |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"QI chargers for electric vehicle? Is it beyond the realms of possibility?
Not at all. Just needs upscaling. I even read an article about wireless charging whilst you drive, roads have the tech embedded in them"
This is actually true. I’m sure it’s even being trialled. Also driverless technology for taxis, buses and food delivery. |
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By *orny PTMan
over a year ago
Peterborough |
"QI chargers for electric vehicle? Is it beyond the realms of possibility?
Not at all. Just needs upscaling. I even read an article about wireless charging whilst you drive, roads have the tech embedded in them
This is actually true. I’m sure it’s even being trialled. Also driverless technology for taxis, buses and food delivery."
MK robots! Better than car drivers that beep their horns... |
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Anyone wondering how us wheelies manage with conventional fuel pumps:
a) most pumps do not require the user to get up a kerb to operate
b) it's possible to park your car right by the fuel nozzle, stick your brakes on and then you can operate the nozzle without having to move and manipulate the nozzle.
c) there's an app where you can call attention to the petrol station staff and they'll do it for you. There's nothing similar, to my knowledge, for EV charging because they tend to be in random car parks or away from petrol stations. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"QI chargers for electric vehicle? Is it beyond the realms of possibility?
Not at all. Just needs upscaling. I even read an article about wireless charging whilst you drive, roads have the tech embedded in them"
That isnt going to happen, however theres a universal quick release battery pack which is being trialed which is a pull up/ unclip /charged pack fitted and off you go. This is being heavily invested in by shell and has been trialed by mercedes & volvo. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Here's what I don't understand. Maybe someone can explain it to me.
At the moment we use fossil files for the vast majority of our energy generation. If we all went electric wouldn't we just be replacing the pollution made by cars for pollution inevitably made by the increased production at power plants?
This just doesn't add up to me. Personally I think top gear got it right and hydrogen is the way forward. It doesn't need a massive change in infrastructure and produces no pollution. Add to that its the most abundant resource in the entire universe.
The whole situation to me seems a bit like trying to fix a broken bone with a sticky plaster. |
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"QI chargers for electric vehicle? Is it beyond the realms of possibility?
Not at all. Just needs upscaling. I even read an article about wireless charging whilst you drive, roads have the tech embedded in them"
Tech embedded in roads! We can't even fill 8 million potholes, maintain lines, kerbs, drainage... There's more chance of colonising the moon that embedding tech in roads to charge cars and keeping it working before the cable company digs it up and breaks it. |
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"Here's what I don't understand. Maybe someone can explain it to me.
At the moment we use fossil files for the vast majority of our energy generation. If we all went electric wouldn't we just be replacing the pollution made by cars for pollution inevitably made by the increased production at power plants?
This just doesn't add up to me. Personally I think top gear got it right and hydrogen is the way forward. It doesn't need a massive change in infrastructure and produces no pollution. Add to that its the most abundant resource in the entire universe.
The whole situation to me seems a bit like trying to fix a broken bone with a sticky plaster."
Nail on head there. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Here's what I don't understand. Maybe someone can explain it to me.
At the moment we use fossil files for the vast majority of our energy generation. If we all went electric wouldn't we just be replacing the pollution made by cars for pollution inevitably made by the increased production at power plants?
This just doesn't add up to me. Personally I think top gear got it right and hydrogen is the way forward. It doesn't need a massive change in infrastructure and produces no pollution. Add to that its the most abundant resource in the entire universe.
The whole situation to me seems a bit like trying to fix a broken bone with a sticky plaster.
Nail on head there. "
One issue is hydrogen is totally flawed, hydrogen fuel cell requires double the amount of energy to tto convert to output power via electrolysis. The energy vector transition means that only around 38% out of 100 watts of energy can be used, weve tried producing power packs for trains but the power lost to energy is just a no go. Its totally unrealistic to think its viable in a moving vehicle, yes its been done but as a end product is flawed. For home power i think its the future for replacing gas for example |
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"QI chargers for electric vehicle? Is it beyond the realms of possibility?
Not at all. Just needs upscaling. I even read an article about wireless charging whilst you drive, roads have the tech embedded in them
Tech embedded in roads! We can't even fill 8 million potholes, maintain lines, kerbs, drainage... There's more chance of colonising the moon that embedding tech in roads to charge cars and keeping it working before the cable company digs it up and breaks it. "
I never claimed it was happening, just feasible. |
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By *orny PTMan
over a year ago
Peterborough |
"QI chargers for electric vehicle? Is it beyond the realms of possibility?
Not at all. Just needs upscaling. I even read an article about wireless charging whilst you drive, roads have the tech embedded in them
That isnt going to happen, however theres a universal quick release battery pack which is being trialed which is a pull up/ unclip /charged pack fitted and off you go. This is being heavily invested in by shell and has been trialed by mercedes & volvo. "
Cars or trucks?
(The Americans get confused with these words.) |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"QI chargers for electric vehicle? Is it beyond the realms of possibility?
Not at all. Just needs upscaling. I even read an article about wireless charging whilst you drive, roads have the tech embedded in them
That isnt going to happen, however theres a universal quick release battery pack which is being trialed which is a pull up/ unclip /charged pack fitted and off you go. This is being heavily invested in by shell and has been trialed by mercedes & volvo.
Cars or trucks?
(The Americans get confused with these words.)"
Both. Volvo have trialed the tech as a joint venture with Amazon in vans. Theres a good little video on 'you tube' (Can EV Battery Swapping Take Off In The U.S.)
Ive seen the tech in person at a future engineering event, the take on it is you will pull up at a petrol station the battery pack will be popped out and replaced without leaving the car and the swap charged to you. No need to charge at home, no range issue. Its the perfect solution, shell are heavily invested which tbh they need to be as at a guess in 10 years there will be a massive drop in oil sales. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Granted SUVs are pointless for our roads just because of how big they are, but that doesn't give people the right to damage the personal property of others.
Also, I wish we'd focus in the large companies who actually contribute mostly to polluting the planet rather than expecting us all to take individual responsibility as it only takes us so far. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The society to which we all belong seems to teach people that anger is an appropriate response in any situation. Things would surely improve the more of us that choose to take responsibility for ourselves and our society, our actions and those of those around us. Education is the greatest tool we can pass on. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Was offered an EV to get into the office which is 180 miles away, the EV lease company offered has a range of 160-170 miles so would need to recharge on the way to work then whilst at work then on way home. Not very practical so kept my old car that does 600 the the tank. |
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"QI chargers for electric vehicle? Is it beyond the realms of possibility?
Not at all. Just needs upscaling. I even read an article about wireless charging whilst you drive, roads have the tech embedded in them
That isnt going to happen, however theres a universal quick release battery pack which is being trialed which is a pull up/ unclip /charged pack fitted and off you go. This is being heavily invested in by shell and has been trialed by mercedes & volvo.
Cars or trucks?
(The Americans get confused with these words.)
Both. Volvo have trialed the tech as a joint venture with Amazon in vans. Theres a good little video on 'you tube' (Can EV Battery Swapping Take Off In The U.S.)
Ive seen the tech in person at a future engineering event, the take on it is you will pull up at a petrol station the battery pack will be popped out and replaced without leaving the car and the swap charged to you. No need to charge at home, no range issue. Its the perfect solution, shell are heavily invested which tbh they need to be as at a guess in 10 years there will be a massive drop in oil sales. "
That’s how I picture it would go eventually. Swap out batteries for a fresh one
Everyone seems so set in stone on the idea of sitting at stations waiting for a charge. It seems like an easy solution to me to just swap out the packs |
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How far (on average) could one drive before needing to go to a battery swapping station (if such things existed)? For context, I fill my car with diesel about once a fortnight (or, more accurately, I take Mr KC to do it for me or use the app for the staff to do it for me). |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"QI chargers for electric vehicle? Is it beyond the realms of possibility?
Not at all. Just needs upscaling. I even read an article about wireless charging whilst you drive, roads have the tech embedded in them
That isnt going to happen, however theres a universal quick release battery pack which is being trialed which is a pull up/ unclip /charged pack fitted and off you go. This is being heavily invested in by shell and has been trialed by mercedes & volvo.
Cars or trucks?
(The Americans get confused with these words.)
Both. Volvo have trialed the tech as a joint venture with Amazon in vans. Theres a good little video on 'you tube' (Can EV Battery Swapping Take Off In The U.S.)
Ive seen the tech in person at a future engineering event, the take on it is you will pull up at a petrol station the battery pack will be popped out and replaced without leaving the car and the swap charged to you. No need to charge at home, no range issue. Its the perfect solution, shell are heavily invested which tbh they need to be as at a guess in 10 years there will be a massive drop in oil sales.
That’s how I picture it would go eventually. Swap out batteries for a fresh one
Everyone seems so set in stone on the idea of sitting at stations waiting for a charge. It seems like an easy solution to me to just swap out the packs "
That's gonna take more legislation. Tesla so far as I know prevent you using anything on their cars that isn't manufactured by them. So that's gonna need to be fixed.
Mind you, they could do an apple and just ignore the legislation about making things more environmentally sound. |
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By *orny PTMan
over a year ago
Peterborough |
"QI chargers for electric vehicle? Is it beyond the realms of possibility?
Not at all. Just needs upscaling. I even read an article about wireless charging whilst you drive, roads have the tech embedded in them
That isnt going to happen, however theres a universal quick release battery pack which is being trialed which is a pull up/ unclip /charged pack fitted and off you go. This is being heavily invested in by shell and has been trialed by mercedes & volvo.
Cars or trucks?
(The Americans get confused with these words.)
Both. Volvo have trialed the tech as a joint venture with Amazon in vans. Theres a good little video on 'you tube' (Can EV Battery Swapping Take Off In The U.S.)
Ive seen the tech in person at a future engineering event, the take on it is you will pull up at a petrol station the battery pack will be popped out and replaced without leaving the car and the swap charged to you. No need to charge at home, no range issue. Its the perfect solution, shell are heavily invested which tbh they need to be as at a guess in 10 years there will be a massive drop in oil sales. "
Oil sales might go up. As crude oil will be needed to make plastics for cable insulation, paints, and other solvent based tasks. They will not allow oil and diesel to remain a waste product from from the distillation processes.
This battery swap operation already exists in a lot of warehouses.
Reach trucks, the ones that stay indoors do have rapid battery swap systems, so it will need a lot of joined up thing from all the parties involved and made easier to swap out unaided.
Fuel filler caps and fill holes: almost the same wherever you look.
EV charging connectors, payment systems, locations, charging times, still need to be standardized. This is a hodgepodge, just look how electric power plugs differ from one nation to the next. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"How far (on average) could one drive before needing to go to a battery swapping station (if such things existed)? For context, I fill my car with diesel about once a fortnight (or, more accurately, I take Mr KC to do it for me or use the app for the staff to do it for me)."
My old jag i pace would do 230 in winter (winter you get less miles due to cold) |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"QI chargers for electric vehicle? Is it beyond the realms of possibility?
Not at all. Just needs upscaling. I even read an article about wireless charging whilst you drive, roads have the tech embedded in them
That isnt going to happen, however theres a universal quick release battery pack which is being trialed which is a pull up/ unclip /charged pack fitted and off you go. This is being heavily invested in by shell and has been trialed by mercedes & volvo.
Cars or trucks?
(The Americans get confused with these words.)
Both. Volvo have trialed the tech as a joint venture with Amazon in vans. Theres a good little video on 'you tube' (Can EV Battery Swapping Take Off In The U.S.)
Ive seen the tech in person at a future engineering event, the take on it is you will pull up at a petrol station the battery pack will be popped out and replaced without leaving the car and the swap charged to you. No need to charge at home, no range issue. Its the perfect solution, shell are heavily invested which tbh they need to be as at a guess in 10 years there will be a massive drop in oil sales.
Oil sales might go up. As crude oil will be needed to make plastics for cable insulation, paints, and other solvent based tasks. They will not allow oil and diesel to remain a waste product from from the distillation processes.
This battery swap operation already exists in a lot of warehouses.
Reach trucks, the ones that stay indoors do have rapid battery swap systems, so it will need a lot of joined up thing from all the parties involved and made easier to swap out unaided.
Fuel filler caps and fill holes: almost the same wherever you look.
EV charging connectors, payment systems, locations, charging times, still need to be standardized. This is a hodgepodge, just look how electric power plugs differ from one nation to the next."
Pretty much every german/asia/brit manufacturer has signed up to 'standardized' system charge/batteries. Tesla however have stuck two fingers up at the idea. Tbh everyone in the game knows Elon has lost interest in tesla, hes too busy manipulating financial markets. Hes made more money via financial market manipulations than tesla made profit. I personally think tesla as a company will get swallowed before long, their techs miles behind other brands |
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"How far (on average) could one drive before needing to go to a battery swapping station (if such things existed)? For context, I fill my car with diesel about once a fortnight (or, more accurately, I take Mr KC to do it for me or use the app for the staff to do it for me).
My old jag i pace would do 230 in winter (winter you get less miles due to cold) "
Whereas currently, my completely full diesel tank will probably take me well over 500 miles. I have tended to stick £40 in once a fortnight or so, but having to increase that now with prices going up! Anyway, the battery swapping would need to happen 2 or 3 times for one full diesel fill up. Are these stations supposed to be fully automated or will the driver have to do anything? Just thinking about accessibility etc. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"How far (on average) could one drive before needing to go to a battery swapping station (if such things existed)? For context, I fill my car with diesel about once a fortnight (or, more accurately, I take Mr KC to do it for me or use the app for the staff to do it for me).
My old jag i pace would do 230 in winter (winter you get less miles due to cold)
Whereas currently, my completely full diesel tank will probably take me well over 500 miles. I have tended to stick £40 in once a fortnight or so, but having to increase that now with prices going up! Anyway, the battery swapping would need to happen 2 or 3 times for one full diesel fill up. Are these stations supposed to be fully automated or will the driver have to do anything? Just thinking about accessibility etc. "
Honestly i havnt a clue however in the u.s they have tested automated systems. Facing facts diesels will be dead soon, they will be off the road theres no hiding that. Ev is fantastic ive changed to hybrid again from ev but cannot wait for the full ev defender to come out ev saves me a fortune |
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"Was offered an EV to get into the office which is 180 miles away, the EV lease company offered has a range of 160-170 miles so would need to recharge on the way to work then whilst at work then on way home. Not very practical so kept my old car that does 600 the the tank."
They offered the wrong car then, leaf (67kWh) has 200+ range even in winter.
Problem is all the Stellantis cars with terrible range based on pure ICE platforms.
As for why pushing legacy generation from vehicles to power plants, most modern ICE vehicles are about 25% efficiency, power plants are 45+% efficient. So even if we weren't using green generation at all that's 15%+ better efficiency of energy use. |
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"How far (on average) could one drive before needing to go to a battery swapping station (if such things existed)? For context, I fill my car with diesel about once a fortnight (or, more accurately, I take Mr KC to do it for me or use the app for the staff to do it for me).
My old jag i pace would do 230 in winter (winter you get less miles due to cold)
Whereas currently, my completely full diesel tank will probably take me well over 500 miles. I have tended to stick £40 in once a fortnight or so, but having to increase that now with prices going up! Anyway, the battery swapping would need to happen 2 or 3 times for one full diesel fill up. Are these stations supposed to be fully automated or will the driver have to do anything? Just thinking about accessibility etc.
Honestly i havnt a clue however in the u.s they have tested automated systems. Facing facts diesels will be dead soon, they will be off the road theres no hiding that. Ev is fantastic ive changed to hybrid again from ev but cannot wait for the full ev defender to come out ev saves me a fortune "
I'm afraid I'm clinging on until they sort out proper boot space and the whole infrastructure being usable by disabled people. I totally understand that diesel isn't going to last and nor is it environmentally friendly, but round here, my options are rather limited. I can't get on trains because all the stations have steps and no lifts. Bus services have been cut and have only two destinations from here (neither of which I need to or want to go to) and we have no trams/Metro. I can't cycle. Handcycles to clip onto wheelchairs cost an absolute fortune and are completely impractical as a method of longer distance locomotion. Things like recumbent handcycle bikes are fine for exercise but what do you do when you get to work? You can't drive around work in a recumbent handcycle all day but nor can you transport your day wheelchair when travelling by handcycle. Etc. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Here's what I don't understand. Maybe someone can explain it to me.
At the moment we use fossil files for the vast majority of our energy generation. If we all went electric wouldn't we just be replacing the pollution made by cars for pollution inevitably made by the increased production at power plants?
This just doesn't add up to me. Personally I think top gear got it right and hydrogen is the way forward. It doesn't need a massive change in infrastructure and produces no pollution. Add to that its the most abundant resource in the entire universe.
The whole situation to me seems a bit like trying to fix a broken bone with a sticky plaster."
Do you actually research any of your ideas or just say whatyou think is true?
We don't produce the "vast majority" of our electricity from fossil fuels - over half the electrity in the UK comes from renewable, a percentage that is rapidly increasing year on year.
Re hydrogen, yes it is the most abundant element in the universe but most of it is in stars. What we have here in earth is mostly already reacted with oxygen and is in the form of water. The hydrogen that is most readily available (and what you buy were you to go to a gas supplier) has come from hydrocarbons (fossil fuels). Yes, we can split water molecules to create hydrogen but guess what? This needs electricity, specially it needs more electrical energy than the energy that is available from the hydrogen that is produced. This isn't to say hydrogen can't or won't form a future solution, just that using the argument that hydrogen means not needing to generate electricity is frankly wrong. Hydrogen production is inefficient, hydrogen fuel cell technology and certainly hydrogen combustion engines are incredibly inefficient. Put simply, hydrogen as a power source for transport will require far more electricity generation than battery tech.
Change of infrastructure? You think you can store hydrogen in petrol tanks at the petrol station? Transport it in petrol tankers? Hydrogen needs a massive change in infrastructure. Seriously, the best engineers, scientists and materials experts in the world are all working on finding the best ways to move away from hydrocarbon dependence and you think they're all wrong because Jeremy Clarkson said so? A man who didn't even know how to turn his own tractor on? Don't get me wrong, Top Gear was great entertainment in it's day but they're not exactly the world's brightest minds are they?
Mr |
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"QI chargers for electric vehicle? Is it beyond the realms of possibility?
Not at all. Just needs upscaling. I even read an article about wireless charging whilst you drive, roads have the tech embedded in them
That isnt going to happen, however theres a universal quick release battery pack which is being trialed which is a pull up/ unclip /charged pack fitted and off you go. This is being heavily invested in by shell and has been trialed by mercedes & volvo.
Cars or trucks?
(The Americans get confused with these words.)
Both. Volvo have trialed the tech as a joint venture with Amazon in vans. Theres a good little video on 'you tube' (Can EV Battery Swapping Take Off In The U.S.)
Ive seen the tech in person at a future engineering event, the take on it is you will pull up at a petrol station the battery pack will be popped out and replaced without leaving the car and the swap charged to you. No need to charge at home, no range issue. Its the perfect solution, shell are heavily invested which tbh they need to be as at a guess in 10 years there will be a massive drop in oil sales.
Oil sales might go up. As crude oil will be needed to make plastics for cable insulation, paints, and other solvent based tasks. They will not allow oil and diesel to remain a waste product from from the distillation processes.
This battery swap operation already exists in a lot of warehouses.
Reach trucks, the ones that stay indoors do have rapid battery swap systems, so it will need a lot of joined up thing from all the parties involved and made easier to swap out unaided.
Fuel filler caps and fill holes: almost the same wherever you look.
EV charging connectors, payment systems, locations, charging times, still need to be standardized. This is a hodgepodge, just look how electric power plugs differ from one nation to the next."
Agree we need to standardise payment like ICE fueling. But that's started and tap and charge is popular in most (in fact law now all new installs have to accept contacless cards) plug and charge is being trialled by a few company's, so just plug in and walk away
As for the plugs, only the USA (J1772 is polular there? Go figure) is a holdout nowadays, all the Japanese manufacturers are switching from CHAdeMO to CCS. |
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"How far (on average) could one drive before needing to go to a battery swapping station (if such things existed)? For context, I fill my car with diesel about once a fortnight (or, more accurately, I take Mr KC to do it for me or use the app for the staff to do it for me).
My old jag i pace would do 230 in winter (winter you get less miles due to cold)
Whereas currently, my completely full diesel tank will probably take me well over 500 miles. I have tended to stick £40 in once a fortnight or so, but having to increase that now with prices going up! Anyway, the battery swapping would need to happen 2 or 3 times for one full diesel fill up. Are these stations supposed to be fully automated or will the driver have to do anything? Just thinking about accessibility etc. "
The only ones doing swapping anymore (Renault gave up on it a while ago) are Nio (Chinese company) where they have swap stops already up and running, these take 20 mins at the moment and need booking etc, are designed for when on long trips etc, fully automated ones are being trialled.
As for everyone else, people think wrongly they need to drive BEV's like ICE cars, drive to empty then fill up, no BEV driver that's used to it does it that way, we all graze charge, plug in when we stop and take on, I've hardly ever used any Ultra Rapids, and then only on long trips, and they where when we stopped for a drink and wee break, so we didn't see it as a 25 min charge stop, just that we happened to charge whilst stopped to do other stuff. All the scaremongering in the 'popular' press is hogwash. I've done 4k miles since got this one and charged 3 times on rapids, rest at home, and that costs me 5p/kWh (77kWh ish pack) and even in winter that gets me 220-240 miles (so 3.85 for 200+ miles). |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Anyone wondering how us wheelies manage with conventional fuel pumps:
a) most pumps do not require the user to get up a kerb to operate
b) it's possible to park your car right by the fuel nozzle, stick your brakes on and then you can operate the nozzle without having to move and manipulate the nozzle.
c) there's an app where you can call attention to the petrol station staff and they'll do it for you. There's nothing similar, to my knowledge, for EV charging because they tend to be in random car parks or away from petrol stations. "
Genuine questions here - I'm not challenging your experience.
A) Fuel pumps are always on raised islands with very high kerbs to protect the pump - I assume the nozzle is still in reach? If a charger was positioned the same way would that solve the issue?
B) I don't understand what you mean by this, how do you fill up without manipulating the nozzle?
C)Is there any sign of this changing? I'm seeing more and more charge points on forecourts- presumably some of these are the same stations that offer this service. Has the app not even begun to offer this for EV charging?
Mr |
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"Anyone wondering how us wheelies manage with conventional fuel pumps:
a) most pumps do not require the user to get up a kerb to operate
b) it's possible to park your car right by the fuel nozzle, stick your brakes on and then you can operate the nozzle without having to move and manipulate the nozzle.
c) there's an app where you can call attention to the petrol station staff and they'll do it for you. There's nothing similar, to my knowledge, for EV charging because they tend to be in random car parks or away from petrol stations.
Genuine questions here - I'm not challenging your experience.
A) Fuel pumps are always on raised islands with very high kerbs to protect the pump - I assume the nozzle is still in reach? If a charger was positioned the same way would that solve the issue?
B) I don't understand what you mean by this, how do you fill up without manipulating the nozzle?
C)Is there any sign of this changing? I'm seeing more and more charge points on forecourts- presumably some of these are the same stations that offer this service. Has the app not even begun to offer this for EV charging?
Mr"
If the chargers are at fuel stations you can use the call button. Also Tesco etc usually don't mind helping out if you ask. |
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"Anyone wondering how us wheelies manage with conventional fuel pumps:
a) most pumps do not require the user to get up a kerb to operate
b) it's possible to park your car right by the fuel nozzle, stick your brakes on and then you can operate the nozzle without having to move and manipulate the nozzle.
c) there's an app where you can call attention to the petrol station staff and they'll do it for you. There's nothing similar, to my knowledge, for EV charging because they tend to be in random car parks or away from petrol stations.
Genuine questions here - I'm not challenging your experience.
A) Fuel pumps are always on raised islands with very high kerbs to protect the pump - I assume the nozzle is still in reach? If a charger was positioned the same way would that solve the issue?
B) I don't understand what you mean by this, how do you fill up without manipulating the nozzle?
C)Is there any sign of this changing? I'm seeing more and more charge points on forecourts- presumably some of these are the same stations that offer this service. Has the app not even begun to offer this for EV charging?
Mr"
a) The pumps themselves are on a raised bit but you can lift the nozzle without stepping onto the platform. You can park with your petrol cap literally millimetres from the nozzle, if you line it up right. You can use the pump at the "back" of the line to ensure you can open your boot to get your wheelchair out. The only EV charging stations in our local area are at Sainsbury's. You have to park in a bay and the EV station is at the back of the bay. You cannot touch the screen or even lift the charger thingy without stepping onto the kerb. There is no dropped kerb.
b) I'm referring to wheelchair brakes here. I can roll round to a petrol pump (with my petrol cap as close to it as possible) and make my wheelchair stationary (with the brakes). I can sit still and lift the nozzle and refuel the car. It's fucking awkward from a seated position and you drip fuel on your feet, your footplate, your seat cushion. Lots of people with upper limb impairment cannot lift fuel nozzles though.
c) The app is only for conventional fuel and only very limited companies participate. One is Sainsbury's, another is Shell. A small number of Morrisons and BP are coming on board. There's no option for EV charging at all.
My house is not wheelchair accessible or adapted. I use crutches at home, so no free hands. I would possibly find charging at home just as hard work with my current house, but I could ask Mr KC or my son to help. It would depend on the length of cable needed as to whether it would work.
I've only refuelled my own car myself once in the past year or so. Every other time, I've either used the app to get petrol station staff to do it or Mr KC has come with me.
If EV stations could have the socket literally mm from the cable (like you can with petrol caps and pumps) AND any touch screen or swipe card membership malarkey can be done from a seated position, without mounting kerbs, then great.
Please try using a supermarket self service till touchscreen and debit card machine whilst sitting in front of it in a chair. I assure you, it's actually next to impossible with many of them because they're designed to be used by people standing up. Your knees don't go under the basket rack/weighing station thing, you can't reach high enough to touch the screen more than about halfway up and you usually can't reach the debit card reader. You have to get staff to help, if that's the only checkout option. Most EV charging stations are a bit like supermarket self service machines. Even when not on a raised platform, they are not accessible. |
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"Anyone wondering how us wheelies manage with conventional fuel pumps:
a) most pumps do not require the user to get up a kerb to operate
b) it's possible to park your car right by the fuel nozzle, stick your brakes on and then you can operate the nozzle without having to move and manipulate the nozzle.
c) there's an app where you can call attention to the petrol station staff and they'll do it for you. There's nothing similar, to my knowledge, for EV charging because they tend to be in random car parks or away from petrol stations.
Genuine questions here - I'm not challenging your experience.
A) Fuel pumps are always on raised islands with very high kerbs to protect the pump - I assume the nozzle is still in reach? If a charger was positioned the same way would that solve the issue?
B) I don't understand what you mean by this, how do you fill up without manipulating the nozzle?
C)Is there any sign of this changing? I'm seeing more and more charge points on forecourts- presumably some of these are the same stations that offer this service. Has the app not even begun to offer this for EV charging?
Mr
If the chargers are at fuel stations you can use the call button. Also Tesco etc usually don't mind helping out if you ask. "
What call button? Also I'm not aware of a petrol station in this area with EV charging. A quick Google tells me that apart from the (inaccessible) ones in Sainsbury's supermarket car park, there are no other EV charging stations within a fairly long distance. Our Sainsbury's fuel station is in a completely different location to the supermarket, so raising a fuel app request wouldn't help (aside the fact you have to enter a pump number to raise an app help request). |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Was offered an EV to get into the office which is 180 miles away, the EV lease company offered has a range of 160-170 miles so would need to recharge on the way to work then whilst at work then on way home. Not very practical so kept my old car that does 600 the the tank.
They offered the wrong car then, leaf (67kWh) has 200+ range even in winter.
Problem is all the Stellantis cars with terrible range based on pure ICE platforms.
As for why pushing legacy generation from vehicles to power plants, most modern ICE vehicles are about 25% efficiency, power plants are 45+% efficient. So even if we weren't using green generation at all that's 15%+ better efficiency of energy use. "
Combine cycle plants are around 60% efficient, around 32GW of the uk grid comes from this.
Standard Nuclear plant will be closer to the 40-45% range without combined cycle.
We'll never be fully renewable. Solar is ok when the sun is out, wind is unreliable. In the summer last year most of the gas fired plant was turned back on to bridge the shortfall as there was no wind.
Loads of solar is being built but this is charging battery banks for grid frequency response with the excess going to grid.
Small gas engine plants in the 5-40 MW range are going into bridge the gap from the last coal stations going.
Nuclear and the Rolls Royce SMR are the only real answer but the tree hugging ecomentalists wont have it.
In the winter we will need an extra 14-21GW of installed generation capacity to charge all these electric vehicles when everyone plugs them in at night onthe drive. Nowhere near that much in the pipeline.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Anyone wondering how us wheelies manage with conventional fuel pumps:
a) most pumps do not require the user to get up a kerb to operate
b) it's possible to park your car right by the fuel nozzle, stick your brakes on and then you can operate the nozzle without having to move and manipulate the nozzle.
c) there's an app where you can call attention to the petrol station staff and they'll do it for you. There's nothing similar, to my knowledge, for EV charging because they tend to be in random car parks or away from petrol stations.
Genuine questions here - I'm not challenging your experience.
A) Fuel pumps are always on raised islands with very high kerbs to protect the pump - I assume the nozzle is still in reach? If a charger was positioned the same way would that solve the issue?
B) I don't understand what you mean by this, how do you fill up without manipulating the nozzle?
C)Is there any sign of this changing? I'm seeing more and more charge points on forecourts- presumably some of these are the same stations that offer this service. Has the app not even begun to offer this for EV charging?
Mr
a) The pumps themselves are on a raised bit but you can lift the nozzle without stepping onto the platform. You can park with your petrol cap literally millimetres from the nozzle, if you line it up right. You can use the pump at the "back" of the line to ensure you can open your boot to get your wheelchair out. The only EV charging stations in our local area are at Sainsbury's. You have to park in a bay and the EV station is at the back of the bay. You cannot touch the screen or even lift the charger thingy without stepping onto the kerb. There is no dropped kerb.
b) I'm referring to wheelchair brakes here. I can roll round to a petrol pump (with my petrol cap as close to it as possible) and make my wheelchair stationary (with the brakes). I can sit still and lift the nozzle and refuel the car. It's fucking awkward from a seated position and you drip fuel on your feet, your footplate, your seat cushion. Lots of people with upper limb impairment cannot lift fuel nozzles though.
c) The app is only for conventional fuel and only very limited companies participate. One is Sainsbury's, another is Shell. A small number of Morrisons and BP are coming on board. There's no option for EV charging at all.
My house is not wheelchair accessible or adapted. I use crutches at home, so no free hands. I would possibly find charging at home just as hard work with my current house, but I could ask Mr KC or my son to help. It would depend on the length of cable needed as to whether it would work.
I've only refuelled my own car myself once in the past year or so. Every other time, I've either used the app to get petrol station staff to do it or Mr KC has come with me.
If EV stations could have the socket literally mm from the cable (like you can with petrol caps and pumps) AND any touch screen or swipe card membership malarkey can be done from a seated position, without mounting kerbs, then great.
Please try using a supermarket self service till touchscreen and debit card machine whilst sitting in front of it in a chair. I assure you, it's actually next to impossible with many of them because they're designed to be used by people standing up. Your knees don't go under the basket rack/weighing station thing, you can't reach high enough to touch the screen more than about halfway up and you usually can't reach the debit card reader. You have to get staff to help, if that's the only checkout option. Most EV charging stations are a bit like supermarket self service machines. Even when not on a raised platform, they are not accessible. "
Ah, I get what you mean on (b) now
I also totally understand where you're coming from re the usability for wheelchair users - my questing were more around how the he'll do you cope with a petrol pump than doubting the added difficulties with electric.
I think the big issue at the moment is electric charging is being added post hoc and therefore is making use of available space rather than specifically designed locations 
Mr |
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By *JB1954Man
over a year ago
Reading |
This about suv’s . I used to tow a caravan up until end 2019. Caravan was approx 2 tons . Only electric car that could tow and I think still remains the same is a Tesla?. Could not afford and the big question was. How to charge at motorway services. Most charging points I had seen were at front entrance to the service shops, food outlets etc. So no way of parking a caravan. Also as far as I am aware . Your not allowed to unhitch and leave caravan on its own at motorway services. Plus motorway services are mainly a one way type system. So motorway services would have to be redesigned to allow unhitching and cars to go somehow back to charging points or start putting charging points in allocated caravan parking areas. |
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"Anyone wondering how us wheelies manage with conventional fuel pumps:
a) most pumps do not require the user to get up a kerb to operate
b) it's possible to park your car right by the fuel nozzle, stick your brakes on and then you can operate the nozzle without having to move and manipulate the nozzle.
c) there's an app where you can call attention to the petrol station staff and they'll do it for you. There's nothing similar, to my knowledge, for EV charging because they tend to be in random car parks or away from petrol stations.
Genuine questions here - I'm not challenging your experience.
A) Fuel pumps are always on raised islands with very high kerbs to protect the pump - I assume the nozzle is still in reach? If a charger was positioned the same way would that solve the issue?
B) I don't understand what you mean by this, how do you fill up without manipulating the nozzle?
C)Is there any sign of this changing? I'm seeing more and more charge points on forecourts- presumably some of these are the same stations that offer this service. Has the app not even begun to offer this for EV charging?
Mr
If the chargers are at fuel stations you can use the call button. Also Tesco etc usually don't mind helping out if you ask.
What call button? Also I'm not aware of a petrol station in this area with EV charging. A quick Google tells me that apart from the (inaccessible) ones in Sainsbury's supermarket car park, there are no other EV charging stations within a fairly long distance. Our Sainsbury's fuel station is in a completely different location to the supermarket, so raising a fuel app request wouldn't help (aside the fact you have to enter a pump number to raise an app help request). "
Most petrol stations have a call procedure, its usually documented. Some it's on the app, other you just pip etc.
ZapMap is your friend to find chargers, don't trust Google maps etc at the moment (it's getting better but ZapMap is the source)
And I agree as a sometimes needing walking aid person, chargers are a pain, normal destination chargers tend to be fine as they use light cables, rapids and especially ultra rapids (water cooled cables) can be a PITA |
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"This about suv’s . I used to tow a caravan up until end 2019. Caravan was approx 2 tons . Only electric car that could tow and I think still remains the same is a Tesla?. Could not afford and the big question was. How to charge at motorway services. Most charging points I had seen were at front entrance to the service shops, food outlets etc. So no way of parking a caravan. Also as far as I am aware . Your not allowed to unhitch and leave caravan on its own at motorway services. Plus motorway services are mainly a one way type system. So motorway services would have to be redesigned to allow unhitching and cars to go somehow back to charging points or start putting charging points in allocated caravan parking areas. "
Only tesla with 2000kg load capability is model x. Pretty much most other things don't have towing for that weight (there few and far between for sure) lots of upcoming ones though have decent towing capacity as America start to adopt, and they have demand for it. |
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"This about suv’s . I used to tow a caravan up until end 2019. Caravan was approx 2 tons . Only electric car that could tow and I think still remains the same is a Tesla?. Could not afford and the big question was. How to charge at motorway services. Most charging points I had seen were at front entrance to the service shops, food outlets etc. So no way of parking a caravan. Also as far as I am aware . Your not allowed to unhitch and leave caravan on its own at motorway services. Plus motorway services are mainly a one way type system. So motorway services would have to be redesigned to allow unhitching and cars to go somehow back to charging points or start putting charging points in allocated caravan parking areas. "
Also, like ICE drivers and BEV driver with any common sense doesn't use motorway services if they can help it. Most of them are terrible, have old chargers and queues. Like ICE driving popping 2 miles down the motorway exit to the town is almost always better. |
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"Not the right approach but London pollution needs curbing.
Remember that asthmatic little girl who died as she lived by a major traffic route? Should never have happened. yea I remember that do not understand why she lived there if it made her child ill why not move to the country side
Because not everyone can afford a little cottage in the countryside will be cheaper then living in London on the south circular thing is these people don't want to change there lives but want everyone one else to"
Not only is it not affordable for people to just up and leave jobs and homes, one of the findings of the coroner was that the child’s mother wasn’t given enough information about the fact the air pollution was causing the problem.
No parent is going to take their ill child away from the hospitals available in London without the information that it would actually be helpful. |
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By *otsMan
over a year ago
Higham |
I have a Diesel SUV it is more efficient than many 1.0 litre vehicles in terms of emissions and MPG only down side are the particulates but even those are very low on it. Buy I rarely drive into the city with it anyway.
No one considers the greater damage to the environment I.e. the digging up of the country side to provide homes and all the ecological damage that causes. Removal of woods, forests and trains so those city'ites can travel one city to another destroying villages like mine!
It's the first Diesel I have owned and won't be the last 
None of you bitch about the buses, the taxis or the Amazon lorries that bring all you parcels to the door!
Electric cars aren't green and they do pollute albeit in a different way and they certainly damage the geology and environment when all the PRECIOUS items are mined to produce batteries which only last about 10yrs then are redundant many still can't be recycled either!
Second hand 10yr old cars will be scrap as replacement batteries will 7.5 to 10 times the residual value of the car!
Far better will be hydrogen vehicles now! I would buy one of those when they are available and reasonable price!
You can keep your milk floats!!
I'll keep my SUV and baseball bat handy!!! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Not the right approach but London pollution needs curbing.
Remember that asthmatic little girl who died as she lived by a major traffic route? Should never have happened. yea I remember that do not understand why she lived there if it made her child ill why not move to the country side
Because not everyone can afford a little cottage in the countryside "
This |
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"Anyone wondering how us wheelies manage with conventional fuel pumps:
a) most pumps do not require the user to get up a kerb to operate
b) it's possible to park your car right by the fuel nozzle, stick your brakes on and then you can operate the nozzle without having to move and manipulate the nozzle.
c) there's an app where you can call attention to the petrol station staff and they'll do it for you. There's nothing similar, to my knowledge, for EV charging because they tend to be in random car parks or away from petrol stations.
Genuine questions here - I'm not challenging your experience.
A) Fuel pumps are always on raised islands with very high kerbs to protect the pump - I assume the nozzle is still in reach? If a charger was positioned the same way would that solve the issue?
B) I don't understand what you mean by this, how do you fill up without manipulating the nozzle?
C)Is there any sign of this changing? I'm seeing more and more charge points on forecourts- presumably some of these are the same stations that offer this service. Has the app not even begun to offer this for EV charging?
Mr
If the chargers are at fuel stations you can use the call button. Also Tesco etc usually don't mind helping out if you ask.
What call button? Also I'm not aware of a petrol station in this area with EV charging. A quick Google tells me that apart from the (inaccessible) ones in Sainsbury's supermarket car park, there are no other EV charging stations within a fairly long distance. Our Sainsbury's fuel station is in a completely different location to the supermarket, so raising a fuel app request wouldn't help (aside the fact you have to enter a pump number to raise an app help request).
Most petrol stations have a call procedure, its usually documented. Some it's on the app, other you just pip etc.
ZapMap is your friend to find chargers, don't trust Google maps etc at the moment (it's getting better but ZapMap is the source)
And I agree as a sometimes needing walking aid person, chargers are a pain, normal destination chargers tend to be fine as they use light cables, rapids and especially ultra rapids (water cooled cables) can be a PITA"
I checked ZapMaps and I'm correct. Apart from our Sainsbury's car park, there are no EV charging stations for many miles and none at petrol stations. Next time I'm at a petrol station, I'll look for a call button because I don't recall having seen one.
The fuel app for disabled people cannot be used to attract attention unless you are parked at a petrol pump and you enter the number of that pump. There's no field for reg number or any other identifying features. So, until they add in "EV charging point 1" or something as an option, the app will not assist.
When you say the help procedure is documented, can I ask what you mean by that? |
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EV's are a stopgap technology. We're being pushed into them until something better (hydrogen combustion engine for example) is commercially viable. EV's are being seen as the golden bullet to stop climate change. They aren't.
There's a lot more to it than simply changing your daily runner from a gas burner to an unethically sourced li-ion battery zapper (the later of which depletes rare earth materials in its production, limited life span and reduced ability to be recycled).
Stopping taking short-haul flights to Europe for a jolly. Reduce your meat consumption (better still stop eating it entirely - unless its cock  ). Invest in green heating and electricity sources. Stop buying a new mobile phone every year. Etc, etc.
Above all, the fact is there's too many humans on the planet wanting to live a resource-hungry, wasteful lifestyle. That's the elephant in the room.
Now, a more important question is, has anybody here had sex in the back of an EV yet? |
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"QI chargers for electric vehicle? Is it beyond the realms of possibility?
Not at all. Just needs upscaling. I even read an article about wireless charging whilst you drive, roads have the tech embedded in them
Tech embedded in roads! We can't even fill 8 million potholes, maintain lines, kerbs, drainage... There's more chance of colonising the moon that embedding tech in roads to charge cars and keeping it working before the cable company digs it up and breaks it.
I never claimed it was happening, just feasible."
It's feasible people walk more or cycle or take public transport...
Just imagine 30 million silent killing machines on the roads how many more pedestrians would be getting squashed... |
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By *JB1954Man
over a year ago
Reading |
"This about suv’s . I used to tow a caravan up until end 2019. Caravan was approx 2 tons . Only electric car that could tow and I think still remains the same is a Tesla?. Could not afford and the big question was. How to charge at motorway services. Most charging points I had seen were at front entrance to the service shops, food outlets etc. So no way of parking a caravan. Also as far as I am aware . Your not allowed to unhitch and leave caravan on its own at motorway services. Plus motorway services are mainly a one way type system. So motorway services would have to be redesigned to allow unhitching and cars to go somehow back to charging points or start putting charging points in allocated caravan parking areas.
Also, like ICE drivers and BEV driver with any common sense doesn't use motorway services if they can help it. Most of them are terrible, have old chargers and queues. Like ICE driving popping 2 miles down the motorway exit to the town is almost always better. "
My point would be. If going into nearest town. Would there be charging point for car and caravan attached. Perhaps again have to leave caravan somewhere and then find charging point ? |
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"QI chargers for electric vehicle? Is it beyond the realms of possibility?
Not at all. Just needs upscaling. I even read an article about wireless charging whilst you drive, roads have the tech embedded in them
That isnt going to happen, however theres a universal quick release battery pack which is being trialed which is a pull up/ unclip /charged pack fitted and off you go. This is being heavily invested in by shell and has been trialed by mercedes & volvo.
Cars or trucks?
(The Americans get confused with these words.)
Both. Volvo have trialed the tech as a joint venture with Amazon in vans. Theres a good little video on 'you tube' (Can EV Battery Swapping Take Off In The U.S.)
Ive seen the tech in person at a future engineering event, the take on it is you will pull up at a petrol station the battery pack will be popped out and replaced without leaving the car and the swap charged to you. No need to charge at home, no range issue. Its the perfect solution, shell are heavily invested which tbh they need to be as at a guess in 10 years there will be a massive drop in oil sales.
That’s how I picture it would go eventually. Swap out batteries for a fresh one
Everyone seems so set in stone on the idea of sitting at stations waiting for a charge. It seems like an easy solution to me to just swap out the packs "
Guess that depends on the financial, warranty and legal implications for such a process, who would do it, how easy it would be access batteries and swap them.. How much they weigh.. And so on...
I agree a bit of creative thinking is required |
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"
Out of interest have you looked into the total life cycle environmental cost of EV verses ICE or are you just repeating an argument you heard because it matches what you believe?
Mr"
This (below) is taken from a recent study.
" In the UK in 2019, the lifetime emissions per kilometre of driving a Nissan Leaf EV were about three times lower than for the average conventional car, even before accounting for the falling carbon intensity of electricity generation during the car’s lifetime."
Cal |
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By *orny PTMan
over a year ago
Peterborough |
"Was offered an EV to get into the office which is 180 miles away, the EV lease company offered has a range of 160-170 miles so would need to recharge on the way to work then whilst at work then on way home. Not very practical so kept my old car that does 600 the the tank.
They offered the wrong car then, leaf (67kWh) has 200+ range even in winter.
Problem is all the Stellantis cars with terrible range based on pure ICE platforms.
As for why pushing legacy generation from vehicles to power plants, most modern ICE vehicles are about 25% efficiency, power plants are 45+% efficient. So even if we weren't using green generation at all that's 15%+ better efficiency of energy use.
Combine cycle plants are around 60% efficient, around 32GW of the uk grid comes from this.
Standard Nuclear plant will be closer to the 40-45% range without combined cycle.
We'll never be fully renewable. Solar is ok when the sun is out, wind is unreliable. In the summer last year most of the gas fired plant was turned back on to bridge the shortfall as there was no wind.
Loads of solar is being built but this is charging battery banks for grid frequency response with the excess going to grid.
Small gas engine plants in the 5-40 MW range are going into bridge the gap from the last coal stations going.
Nuclear and the Rolls Royce SMR are the only real answer but the tree hugging ecomentalists wont have it.
In the winter we will need an extra 14-21GW of installed generation capacity to charge all these electric vehicles when everyone plugs them in at night onthe drive. Nowhere near that much in the pipeline.
"
What a pity sea power was poo-poo'd in the late 1970s and we all know that the tide is predicatable, night and day. We are an island nation and are missing out on a treat here. |
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By *orny PTMan
over a year ago
Peterborough |
"I have a Diesel SUV it is more efficient than many 1.0 litre vehicles in terms of emissions and MPG only down side are the particulates but even those are very low on it. Buy I rarely drive into the city with it anyway.
No one considers the greater damage to the environment I.e. the digging up of the country side to provide homes and all the ecological damage that causes. Removal of woods, forests and trains so those city'ites can travel one city to another destroying villages like mine!
None of you bitch about the buses, the taxis or the Amazon lorries that bring all you parcels to the door!
"
Don't forget to include tractors, canal barges river craft, non electric trains and all maritime transport that isn't wind powered, all on on coast line, docks and waterways. Planes too.
We'll know when the fossil fuels is sorted, the global shipping and aviation industries will have their own emmision free vehicles. |
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"Not the right approach but London pollution needs curbing.
Remember that asthmatic little girl who died as she lived by a major traffic route? Should never have happened. yea I remember that do not understand why she lived there if it made her child ill why not move to the country side
Because not everyone can afford a little cottage in the countryside will be cheaper then living in London on the south circular thing is these people don't want to change there lives but want everyone one else to
Not only is it not affordable for people to just up and leave jobs and homes, one of the findings of the coroner was that the child’s mother wasn’t given enough information about the fact the air pollution was causing the problem.
No parent is going to take their ill child away from the hospitals available in London without the information that it would actually be helpful. "
it is also not affordable for people to not use there cars and vans for work how do they feed there children and are you saying there are no hospitals in the country side think your not far from one |
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"
What a pity sea power was poo-poo'd in the late 1970s and we all know that the tide is predicatable, night and day. We are an island nation and are missing out on a treat here."
There has been trials and tests since then, generally speaking it's bobbins unless on a small scale |
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My barely noticeable protest against range rovers etc is to not let them out in front of me when driving and only being kind to smaller cars. I live in London btw so can't see the motivation for a 4x4 other than status |
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"My barely noticeable protest against range rovers etc is to not let them out in front of me when driving and only being kind to smaller cars. I live in London btw so can't see the motivation for a 4x4 other than status"
I live in the North... I see little motivation for living in London other than Status  |
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By *ssex_tom OP Man
over a year ago
Chelmsford |
"My barely noticeable protest against range rovers etc is to not let them out in front of me when driving and only being kind to smaller cars. I live in London btw so can't see the motivation for a 4x4 other than status"
That is the comical thing tho. Only a moron thinks that possessions give them status. I have never pedalled along overtaking these lunatics dressed in lycra and riding their carbon frames and thought ... Oh boy, that slowcoach has status... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"My barely noticeable protest against range rovers etc is to not let them out in front of me when driving and only being kind to smaller cars. I live in London btw so can't see the motivation for a 4x4 other than status
That is the comical thing tho. Only a moron thinks that possessions give them status. I have never pedalled along overtaking these lunatics dressed in lycra and riding their carbon frames and thought ... Oh boy, that slowcoach has status..."
Tbh i never look at someone's choice in car, clothing and judge... its a terrible trait. i generally look and think thats nice, theres absolutely nothing wrong with having nice things and enjoying them. I could never drive a basic hatchback its just not me, i dont drive my car for anyone else but my own pleasure. |
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By *ssex_tom OP Man
over a year ago
Chelmsford |
"My barely noticeable protest against range rovers etc is to not let them out in front of me when driving and only being kind to smaller cars. I live in London btw so can't see the motivation for a 4x4 other than status
That is the comical thing tho. Only a moron thinks that possessions give them status. I have never pedalled along overtaking these lunatics dressed in lycra and riding their carbon frames and thought ... Oh boy, that slowcoach has status...
Tbh i never look at someone's choice in car, clothing and judge... its a terrible trait. i generally look and think thats nice, theres absolutely nothing wrong with having nice things and enjoying them. I could never drive a basic hatchback its just not me, i dont drive my car for anyone else but my own pleasure. "
What do you drive? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"My barely noticeable protest against range rovers etc is to not let them out in front of me when driving and only being kind to smaller cars. I live in London btw so can't see the motivation for a 4x4 other than status
That is the comical thing tho. Only a moron thinks that possessions give them status. I have never pedalled along overtaking these lunatics dressed in lycra and riding their carbon frames and thought ... Oh boy, that slowcoach has status...
Tbh i never look at someone's choice in car, clothing and judge... its a terrible trait. i generally look and think thats nice, theres absolutely nothing wrong with having nice things and enjoying them. I could never drive a basic hatchback its just not me, i dont drive my car for anyone else but my own pleasure. "
This 100%
I get judged regularly because of what I drive, how much i spend on watches etc.
I don't give a fuck and think the people judging have some serious issues if my choices bother you that much. |
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"Not the right approach but London pollution needs curbing.
Remember that asthmatic little girl who died as she lived by a major traffic route? Should never have happened. yea I remember that do not understand why she lived there if it made her child ill why not move to the country side
Because not everyone can afford a little cottage in the countryside will be cheaper then living in London on the south circular thing is these people don't want to change there lives but want everyone one else to
Not only is it not affordable for people to just up and leave jobs and homes, one of the findings of the coroner was that the child’s mother wasn’t given enough information about the fact the air pollution was causing the problem.
No parent is going to take their ill child away from the hospitals available in London without the information that it would actually be helpful. it is also not affordable for people to not use there cars and vans for work how do they feed there children and are you saying there are no hospitals in the country side think your not far from one"
You’re not seriously trying to compare the availability of hospitals in the countryside to London? Come on now.
If you have an ill child and you don’t know why (bear in mind the mother did not know that the child’s health was being caused by air pollution - the way she went downhill happened in a very short period of time) then you don’t take them away from both the number of hospitals in London and the specialities based in London hospitals.
Especially not to somewhere in the country side with smaller and less specialised hospitals that are likely to be considerably further away.
Now, had she known then maybe. But the point is - she didn’t. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"My barely noticeable protest against range rovers etc is to not let them out in front of me when driving and only being kind to smaller cars. I live in London btw so can't see the motivation for a 4x4 other than status
That is the comical thing tho. Only a moron thinks that possessions give them status. I have never pedalled along overtaking these lunatics dressed in lycra and riding their carbon frames and thought ... Oh boy, that slowcoach has status...
Tbh i never look at someone's choice in car, clothing and judge... its a terrible trait. i generally look and think thats nice, theres absolutely nothing wrong with having nice things and enjoying them. I could never drive a basic hatchback its just not me, i dont drive my car for anyone else but my own pleasure.
What do you drive?"
Hybrid landrover defender |
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By *ssex_tom OP Man
over a year ago
Chelmsford |
"My barely noticeable protest against range rovers etc is to not let them out in front of me when driving and only being kind to smaller cars. I live in London btw so can't see the motivation for a 4x4 other than status
That is the comical thing tho. Only a moron thinks that possessions give them status. I have never pedalled along overtaking these lunatics dressed in lycra and riding their carbon frames and thought ... Oh boy, that slowcoach has status...
Tbh i never look at someone's choice in car, clothing and judge... its a terrible trait. i generally look and think thats nice, theres absolutely nothing wrong with having nice things and enjoying them. I could never drive a basic hatchback its just not me, i dont drive my car for anyone else but my own pleasure.
What do you drive?
Hybrid landrover defender "
Is that a genuine off roader though? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"My barely noticeable protest against range rovers etc is to not let them out in front of me when driving and only being kind to smaller cars. I live in London btw so can't see the motivation for a 4x4 other than status
That is the comical thing tho. Only a moron thinks that possessions give them status. I have never pedalled along overtaking these lunatics dressed in lycra and riding their carbon frames and thought ... Oh boy, that slowcoach has status...
Tbh i never look at someone's choice in car, clothing and judge... its a terrible trait. i generally look and think thats nice, theres absolutely nothing wrong with having nice things and enjoying them. I could never drive a basic hatchback its just not me, i dont drive my car for anyone else but my own pleasure.
What do you drive?
Hybrid landrover defender
Is that a genuine off roader though?"
People so not, however they obviously havnt driven one off road.
Its the best vehicle ive used off road, its been all over my parents farm land and out performs my dads original defender saying thathis 2 year old 'chelsea tractor' range rover out performs his traditional farmy defender.
Theres many that say they arnt off roaders anymore, they most certainly are, mines been scuttle deep in water as has his range rover |
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By *lairekTV/TS
over a year ago
Manchester |
How about a nuanced response.
I've an older but fully maintained SUV
In a post COVID world, I work remote and barely do 100 miles per month.
Why should I switch to EV? The lithium for my purchase will most likely be owned by China. Much of the car would come from China.
Wouldn't I just be fuelling the energy boom in China even further?
More than 1200Gw of power in China still comes from coal. Why should I add to that? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Have considered the new defender as just sold my old one but probably won't till the other land rovers all die "
Its brilliant, i could do with another pickup really i found it more usefull and miss my ford f150 but wont have one untill a hybrid/EV comes out. Ford are meant to be releasing a new hybrid ranger next year which is based on the f150 size |
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"Having SUVs is a choice people are allowed to make regardless of others thoughts on the need for them.
Same as it's my choice to own 2 4+ litre v8s and I will avoid the transition to electric vehicles for as long as possible.
I really dont give a shit about what anyone thinks about that but it doesn't give anyone the right to damage my or others personal property in protest."
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By *orny PTMan
over a year ago
Peterborough |
"My barely noticeable protest against range rovers etc is to not let them out in front of me when driving and only being kind to smaller cars. I live in London btw so can't see the motivation for a 4x4 other than status
That is the comical thing tho. Only a moron thinks that possessions give them status. I have never pedalled along overtaking these lunatics dressed in lycra and riding their carbon frames and thought ... Oh boy, that slowcoach has status..."
That slowcoach probably can ride at 25 mph for hours and has spent more money on the bike, than their car. |
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"The rich are trying to blame the poor for pollution
The poor aren’t the problem. Private jets, super yachts and taking people into outerspace for shits and giggles are the real problem "
The very wealthy are the enemy of the planet. |
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