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Zero road tax to end for electricity vehicles.
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"It was always a bad idea to allow certain vehicles to be exempt from road tax as it creates a hole in the finances required to maintain the roads (which is the point of the tax in the first place) which then places an unfair burden on others to cover "  | |||
"Of course and no doubt it won’t be cost neutral either. When you consider that the pence per mile of using a rapid charger is almost double that of filling an ICE car with petrol, be prepared to be paying more for running an electric car." The pence per mile charge won’t be too bad as you can only do short journeys in them anyway! | |||
"It was always a bad idea to allow certain vehicles to be exempt from road tax as it creates a hole in the finances required to maintain the roads (which is the point of the tax in the first place) which then places an unfair burden on others to cover " I agree. We all use the same roads after all | |||
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"So now that enough people have bought them, Gov.uk are looking to introduce a new taxing system on a pence per mile basis for electric vehicles. Knew they would find a way of getting their lost revenue back. What a kick in the teeth." To be fair, "Road tax" is one of the smallest costs of driving. Most pay more in a month on fuel than they do for a year's tax | |||
"After all these years I still can't believe people are falling into this bear trap & actually buying electric cars... From cradle to grave they're not even greener than "normal" cars!" That's not actually true. The environmental impact of creating an electric car is very similar to that of creating a petrol/diesel car, but the "per mile driven" impact is massively better... evennif the power is produced from coal. If it's charged by solar or wind, it's even better. Cal | |||
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"It was always a bad idea to allow certain vehicles to be exempt from road tax as it creates a hole in the finances required to maintain the roads (which is the point of the tax in the first place) which then places an unfair burden on others to cover " Road tax was abolished in the 1930's and the Vehicle Excise Duty that is used now, is not used towards road repairs. That comes from general taxation. Cal | |||
I currently drive a sports diesel and don't pay any road tax at all which I've never fully understood. | |||
"Yeah bring back the donkey and cart! We have a Tesla that is purely solar powered from our panels and not only are we covered against fuel costs, electricity costs and maintenance but we also get new features on the car every few months. Electric cars are the future and mine offers zero pollution after being built. Best of all there isn't a single ice car it can't overtake - we love it but can understand that it grey, miserable England it isn't that practical but judging by some of the comments - wind power could easily work out for a few of you! "If you are under the impression that your car offers zero pollution post build you are wrong | |||
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"Of course and no doubt it won’t be cost neutral either. When you consider that the pence per mile of using a rapid charger is almost double that of filling an ICE car with petrol, be prepared to be paying more for running an electric car. The pence per mile charge won’t be too bad as you can only do short journeys in them anyway! " I really wish mine could go more than 300 miles before it's dies  | |||
"Of course and no doubt it won’t be cost neutral either. When you consider that the pence per mile of using a rapid charger is almost double that of filling an ICE car with petrol, be prepared to be paying more for running an electric car. The pence per mile charge won’t be too bad as you can only do short journeys in them anyway! I really wish mine could go more than 300 miles before it's dies "even a tesla is not recommended to run with a battery under 20% or over 80% ...and good luck getting a charging point (that works) | |||
"Of course and no doubt it won’t be cost neutral either. When you consider that the pence per mile of using a rapid charger is almost double that of filling an ICE car with petrol, be prepared to be paying more for running an electric car. The pence per mile charge won’t be too bad as you can only do short journeys in them anyway! I really wish mine could go more than 300 miles before it's dies
even a tesla is not recommended to run with a battery under 20% or over 80%
...and good luck getting a charging point (that works)
"20% is nonsense. Regular charging to 80-90% is best for battery management but, 100% is fine if you're making longer journeys. Supercharger network is great & always reliable. Granted lots of regular chargers are often kaput though. | |||
"Hydrogen is the answer!" I thought it was smarties? Hydrogen might be a solution eventually, but not at the minute. Plus, Hydrogen vehicles are still electric and still have batteries (all be it smaller). They will effectively be hybrids. Maybe nuclear is the solution? It just needs a small fusion reactor and your car is charged for millions of years. Cal | |||
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"How are they going to police the tex per mile? " *tax | |||
The mr | |||
"How are they going to police the tex per mile? *tax "your MOT has the milage on it | |||
"It was always a bad idea to allow certain vehicles to be exempt from road tax as it creates a hole in the finances required to maintain the roads (which is the point of the tax in the first place) which then places an unfair burden on others to cover " It doesn't create a hole, as the Vehicle Excise Duty (there is no road tax) goes into the governments general funds along with other taxes. Our road repairs come from the general and local funds, so everyone pays for them whether they are a road user or not. All dropping VED does is means we need a rise in other taxes. | |||
"How are they going to police the tex per mile? *tax
your MOT has the milage on it"Technology is too advanced for them to Police it that simply. I know someone who can clock the latest cars mileage | |||
"So now that enough people have bought them, Gov.uk are looking to introduce a new taxing system on a pence per mile basis for electric vehicles. Knew they would find a way of getting their lost revenue back. What a kick in the teeth." Where did you see this? | |||
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"It was always a bad idea to allow certain vehicles to be exempt from road tax as it creates a hole in the finances required to maintain the roads (which is the point of the tax in the first place) which then places an unfair burden on others to cover " That may have been the original concept but now it's just another tax/income stream for the treasury, bit like NI was for NHS/state pensions but now is all lumped into the general income for the Exchequer | |||
"It was always a bad idea to allow certain vehicles to be exempt from road tax as it creates a hole in the finances required to maintain the roads (which is the point of the tax in the first place) which then places an unfair burden on others to cover That may have been the original concept but now it's just another tax/income stream for the treasury, bit like NI was for NHS/state pensions but now is all lumped into the general income for the Exchequer" Death & Taxes! | |||
"It was always a bad idea to allow certain vehicles to be exempt from road tax as it creates a hole in the finances required to maintain the roads (which is the point of the tax in the first place) which then places an unfair burden on others to cover That may have been the original concept but now it's just another tax/income stream for the treasury, bit like NI was for NHS/state pensions but now is all lumped into the general income for the Exchequer" Explains why the roads in this country are in such a poor state then. | |||
"It was always a bad idea to allow certain vehicles to be exempt from road tax as it creates a hole in the finances required to maintain the roads (which is the point of the tax in the first place) which then places an unfair burden on others to cover Road tax was abolished in the 1930's and the Vehicle Excise Duty that is used now, is not used towards road repairs. That comes from general taxation. Cal" Road repairs, what are they? The roads in Surrey are terrible! Go to the Welsh mountains and they are a dream and smooth. | |||
"So now that enough people have bought them, Gov.uk are looking to introduce a new taxing system on a pence per mile basis for electric vehicles. Now isn't that a surprise ? Knew they would find a way of getting their lost revenue back. What a kick in the teeth." | |||
"It was always a bad idea to allow certain vehicles to be exempt from road tax as it creates a hole in the finances required to maintain the roads (which is the point of the tax in the first place) which then places an unfair burden on others to cover " Why did something get changed in 1937 and people have still not caught up? There is no road tax. There is VED. Yes, it goes into the government budget but it's not used to fund road maintenance. This is largely paid for by local councils. Everyone paying council tax pays for road maintenance. This isn't too say that exempting electric vehicles wasn't always known to be a shirt term measure. VED had been tweaked numerous times for various reasons - including in recent years some significant drops to encourage more efficient vehicles, I don't recall hearing anyone complain about that. On top of this, the per mile charge has nothing to do with VED revenue and everything to do with the fact that every litre of petrol you put in your car gives the government nearly 60 pence. This is the biggest loss of income. The government cannot put tax on electricity at the rate it has on petrol/diesel as this would cripple everyone so instead they're looking at this per mile charge. Anyone buying an electric vehicle in the belief it would remain forever cheaper clearly didn't think about things very hard, the government takes billions from fuel duty - that revenue has to be replaced somehow unless we want to lose what little public services we have left. Reductions in running costs were only ever going to be incentives to get the market started, the real reason for electric vehicles is to reduce global warming. Mr | |||
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"Of course and no doubt it won’t be cost neutral either. When you consider that the pence per mile of using a rapid charger is almost double that of filling an ICE car with petrol, be prepared to be paying more for running an electric car." My car cost me £80 to fill last time, I know it probably has more range than a Tesla with that but you’re telling me it will take £160 of electricity to recharge a car? Need figures here… | |||
"So now that enough people have bought them, Gov.uk are looking to introduce a new taxing system on a pence per mile basis for electric vehicles. Knew they would find a way of getting their lost revenue back. What a kick in the teeth." Thats politicians for you | |||
"Of course and no doubt it won’t be cost neutral either. When you consider that the pence per mile of using a rapid charger is almost double that of filling an ICE car with petrol, be prepared to be paying more for running an electric car. The pence per mile charge won’t be too bad as you can only do short journeys in them anyway! I really wish mine could go more than 300 miles before it's dies
even a tesla is not recommended to run with a battery under 20% or over 80%
...and good luck getting a charging point (that works)
20% is nonsense. Regular charging to 80-90% is best for battery management but, 100% is fine if you're making longer journeys.
Supercharger network is great & always reliable. Granted lots of regular chargers are often kaput though. "I can fill my old car’s tank in about 5 minutes and then I’m good to go for at least 600 miles ... 700+ if I spare the horses! Give me a shout when electric vehicles get close to that level of convenience. Should surely be possible to make batteries that can do a thousand miles or more. | |||
"It was always a bad idea to allow certain vehicles to be exempt from road tax as it creates a hole in the finances required to maintain the roads (which is the point of the tax in the first place) which then places an unfair burden on others to cover " I really don't understand how this works. The roads by me are dreadful but that's because my local council is chronically underfunded, not because not enough people are paying vehicle tax. In fact as a more deprived area with more older cars, we probably pay more vehicle tax than areas where people can afford electric cars or have new cars with no or very low tax. | |||
"Should surely be possible to make batteries that can do a thousand miles or more. " The technology is coming, but it’s more than just finding a battery design that allows that. The materials needs to be relatively easy to obtain, transport and process; the battery needs to be able to receive hundreds/thousands of charges without severe degradation, it needs to be able to withstand varying temperatures and shock/vibration from being in a vehicle, it needs to be easy to package to allow it to be configured into the many different packs that different manufacturers require….. | |||
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"Hydrogen is the answer!" Yes!!! Exactly!!! Hydrogen fuel cells do pollute. The chemical formula for that pollution is H2O. The big issue is making the whole system green, but once you get hydrogen plants being powered by green / hydrogen energy you’re on to a winner. If you can harvest the “emissions” too then you end the fresh water crisis too. Also, to note, current Petroleum powered vehicles can be retrofitted with Hydrogen fuel cell systems. | |||
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"The infrastructure to move and store hydrogen at the scale required is some way off though, and will come at significant investment (not that a proper EV wouldn’t either)" gotta think big!! but seriously lorries, diggers, buses... imagine the battery requirements.. combustable hydrogen. | |||
"So now that enough people have bought them, Gov.uk are looking to introduce a new taxing system on a pence per mile basis for electric vehicles. Knew they would find a way of getting their lost revenue back. What a kick in the teeth. Thats politicians for you" Think they debated it during a cheese and wine garden party a while back  | |||
"The infrastructure to move and store hydrogen at the scale required is some way off though, and will come at significant investment (not that a proper EV wouldn’t either) gotta think big!! but seriously lorries, diggers, buses... imagine the battery requirements.. combustable hydrogen. " For commercial vehicles it makes sense, absolutely. Not quite so much to do on the infra side then | |||
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"After all these years I still can't believe people are falling into this bear trap & actually buying electric cars... From cradle to grave they're not even greener than "normal" cars! That's not actually true. The environmental impact of creating an electric car is very similar to that of creating a petrol/diesel car, but the "per mile driven" impact is massively better... evennif the power is produced from coal. If it's charged by solar or wind, it's even better. Cal" What about the massive batteries - you know the ones that don't have a massive life expectancy & are difficult to recycle?  | |||
"Hydrogen is the answer!" Hydrogen will NEVER be the answer until Nuclear Fission is established.. To conceive the idea that all UK boilers and cars will be converted to it as a fuel, is a dream many years beyond our lifetimes. To generate 1kw the equivalent energy from hydrolysis of water needs 1.2-1.5kw power putting in. My boiler runs at 12kw/h methane, meaning my single house needs 14.5kw/h electricity somewhere to make the Hydrogen gas to support it while running. Where is all this energy coming from to make Hydrogen in quantities enough to run over 20million homes and unknown numbers of vehicles, at a time that vehicles and homes are soaking up excess on the Grid with batteries and heat pumps? Currently, it's nothing more than a crazy pipedream - the economics are not there, unless I have missed something? As for VED (Road Tax) - Yes, every vehicle should pay its fair share to the wear and tear and new roads it drives on. It is grossly unfair electric vehicles escape contributions to maintenance of the highways. | |||
"After all these years I still can't believe people are falling into this bear trap & actually buying electric cars... From cradle to grave they're not even greener than "normal" cars! That's not actually true. The environmental impact of creating an electric car is very similar to that of creating a petrol/diesel car, but the "per mile driven" impact is massively better... evennif the power is produced from coal. If it's charged by solar or wind, it's even better. Cal What about the massive batteries - you know the ones that don't have a massive life expectancy & are difficult to recycle? "Used car batteries are perfect to last 25-30 years as home storage batteries and it should be law that these batteries can be easily re-purposed. A car battery is deemed used at 80% capacity, so a 50kw car battery can still offer 40kw storage in its long retirement. | |||
"Hydrogen is the answer! Hydrogen will NEVER be the answer until Nuclear Fission is established.. To conceive the idea that all UK boilers and cars will be converted to it as a fuel, is a dream many years beyond our lifetimes. To generate 1kw the equivalent energy from hydrolysis of water needs 1.2-1.5kw power putting in. My boiler runs at 12kw/h methane, meaning my single house needs 14.5kw/h electricity somewhere to make the Hydrogen gas to support it while running. Where is all this energy coming from to make Hydrogen in quantities enough to run over 20million homes and unknown numbers of vehicles, at a time that vehicles and homes are soaking up excess on the Grid with batteries and heat pumps? Currently, it's nothing more than a crazy pipedream - the economics are not there, unless I have missed something? As for VED (Road Tax) - Yes, every vehicle should pay its fair share to the wear and tear and new roads it drives on. It is grossly unfair electric vehicles escape contributions to maintenance of the highways." you need both for heating purposes. dual fuels. recent storms prove this. Hydrogen is already happening for just taking sometime.. nuclear: capital cost is too great.. | |||
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"The big problem with electric cars is they look either terrible or boring with silly wheels The only electric car that looks anything like is the bmw i4m Also the batteries will only last about 8 years and they aren’t recyclable " Tesla are talking about million mile batteries and they are fully recyclable after their 10 year second life. The only thing preventing recycling at the moment is scale economics. | |||
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"So now that enough people have bought them, Gov.uk are looking to introduce a new taxing system on a pence per mile basis for electric vehicles. Knew they would find a way of getting their lost revenue back. What a kick in the teeth." There's no such thing as Road Tax | |||
"Should surely be possible to make batteries that can do a thousand miles or more. The technology is coming, but it’s more than just finding a battery design that allows that. The materials needs to be relatively easy to obtain, transport and process; the battery needs to be able to receive hundreds/thousands of charges without severe degradation, it needs to be able to withstand varying temperatures and shock/vibration from being in a vehicle, it needs to be easy to package to allow it to be configured into the many different packs that different manufacturers require….." Yeah, I’m not holding my breath! In the meantime, baby steps in terms of battery performance, when quantum leaps are required | |||
"The big problem with electric cars is they look either terrible or boring with silly wheels The only electric car that looks anything like is the bmw i4m Also the batteries will only last about 8 years and they aren’t recyclable " Yeah, i find it odd that manufacturers set about making them look so ugly. Seems to be compulsory | |||
"After all these years I still can't believe people are falling into this bear trap & actually buying electric cars... From cradle to grave they're not even greener than "normal" cars! That's not actually true. The environmental impact of creating an electric car is very similar to that of creating a petrol/diesel car, but the "per mile driven" impact is massively better... evennif the power is produced from coal. If it's charged by solar or wind, it's even better. Cal What about the massive batteries - you know the ones that don't have a massive life expectancy & are difficult to recycle? "It's not a surprise that the batteries are originally hard to recycle, it's an emerging industry. There is no point in investing in recycling batteries until there is an excess of batteries needing replacement. There are also many advances in renovation of batteries and this is likely to be the way forward. It is obvious that as EVs become more common, they will become cheaper and the technologies required will become better & more cost effective. Cal | |||
"After all these years I still can't believe people are falling into this bear trap & actually buying electric cars... From cradle to grave they're not even greener than "normal" cars! That's not actually true. The environmental impact of creating an electric car is very similar to that of creating a petrol/diesel car, but the "per mile driven" impact is massively better... evennif the power is produced from coal. If it's charged by solar or wind, it's even better. Cal What about the massive batteries - you know the ones that don't have a massive life expectancy & are difficult to recycle?
It's not a surprise that the batteries are originally hard to recycle, it's an emerging industry. There is no point in investing in recycling batteries until there is an excess of batteries needing replacement.
There are also many advances in renovation of batteries and this is likely to be the way forward.
It is obvious that as EVs become more common, they will become cheaper and the technologies required will become better & more cost effective.
Cal"Great. I’ll wait until some of these things have been delivered then, as they sound like pipe dreams at this stage. | |||
And this is in the SW where let's face it it's pretty mild - up norf it must be a more common occurrence.... | |||
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"My other concern with EV's is my commute - 160 miles round trip across Bodmin moor & Dartmoor to Exeter, Now the distance is doable with the range of EV's increasing (as long as theres no diversions or road closures!) - oh & also there's no charging points at my place of work - despite 200 people working there!? But my issue is that in the 15 years I've been treading the tarmac I've been snowed in a few times on the moor & spent the night in the car waiting for a snowplough, friendly tractor driver or the snow to melt - some of these events have made the national news, Now when snowed in I've fired up the car, whacked the heater on, kept the phone charging & gone on fab! In an EV I'm guessing I freeze to death??
And this is in the SW where let's face it it's pretty mild - up norf it must be a more common occurrence...."I’m pretty sure the EV brigade will tell you that the weather conditions you describe are extreme, and you would only freeze the death occasionally. But everything will be fine at some stage in the future, when EV’s are actually fit for purpose How this helps | |||
"Been driving a 40KWh Nissan Leaf for a year. Was ex-demo, 21 plate. Nice stereo etc. but we’re going to trade it in. The infrastructure just isn’t there. It’s not practical if you live outside of a city and may need to charge away from home. Nissan and the car itself say range is 165 miles. Lucky if you get 100. So I’d say for EVs to work everyone needs to have the same experience as Tesla owners, a huge number more chargers and decent range. We can’t afford a £50k car so that’s not an option for us… 80KWh battery plus fast chargers (150KW+) so you can charge in under 30mins seems a minimum really… I feel a bit of a mug for buying a Leaf. We wanted to do ‘the right thing’, be green and save money on fuel. In reality you are paying extra in stress cos half the public chargers don’t work and the range isn’t as promised." Disappointing experience. Thanks for sharing. I am hearing increasing accounts of public charging points not working, and some of the charging points needing to be upgraded. I’m not ready to take the plunge as the infrastructure simply isn’t there yet . Ok as a second car, for short daily commute, but there about it. | |||
"After all these years I still can't believe people are falling into this bear trap & actually buying electric cars... From cradle to grave they're not even greener than "normal" cars! That's not actually true. The environmental impact of creating an electric car is very similar to that of creating a petrol/diesel car, but the "per mile driven" impact is massively better... evennif the power is produced from coal. If it's charged by solar or wind, it's even better. Cal What about the massive batteries - you know the ones that don't have a massive life expectancy & are difficult to recycle?
It's not a surprise that the batteries are originally hard to recycle, it's an emerging industry. There is no point in investing in recycling batteries until there is an excess of batteries needing replacement.
There are also many advances in renovation of batteries and this is likely to be the way forward.
It is obvious that as EVs become more common, they will become cheaper and the technologies required will become better & more cost effective.
Cal
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Great. I’ll wait until some of these things have been delivered then, as they sound like pipe dreams at this stage. "As were mechanics, petrol stations, and other infrastructure for the first 20-30 years of cars becoming available. It's just how these things work. An EV wouldn't be right for me at the moment either, but the are the future of motoring. Cal | |||
"Yeah bring back the donkey and cart! We have a Tesla that is purely solar powered from our panels and not only are we covered against fuel costs, electricity costs and maintenance but we also get new features on the car every few months. Electric cars are the future and mine offers zero pollution after being built. Best of all there isn't a single ice car it can't overtake - we love it but can understand that it grey, miserable England it isn't that practical but judging by some of the comments - wind power could easily work out for a few of you! "But that's not true is it. Your solar panels will provide power to charge, however to fully charge your Tesla you would need at least 36 hours of continuous daylight provide by a minimum 8 to 12 solar cells. Your solar system is supporting your grid supply. | |||
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"Been driving a 40KWh Nissan Leaf for a year. Was ex-demo, 21 plate. Nice stereo etc. but we’re going to trade it in. The infrastructure just isn’t there. It’s not practical if you live outside of a city and may need to charge away from home. Nissan and the car itself say range is 165 miles. Lucky if you get 100. So I’d say for EVs to work everyone needs to have the same experience as Tesla owners, a huge number more chargers and decent range. We can’t afford a £50k car so that’s not an option for us… 80KWh battery plus fast chargers (150KW+) so you can charge in under 30mins seems a minimum really… I feel a bit of a mug for buying a Leaf. We wanted to do ‘the right thing’, be green and save money on fuel. In reality you are paying extra in stress cos half the public chargers don’t work and the range isn’t as promised. Disappointing experience. Thanks for sharing. I am hearing increasing accounts of public charging points not working, and some of the charging points needing to be upgraded. I’m not ready to take the plunge as the infrastructure simply isn’t there yet . Ok as a second car, for short daily commute, but there about it. " Tbh, that sounds about right at the moment. Really sad. Should be a goal we can all buy into and work towards as a society. Instead, it’s just the second car and the status quo (rockin much closer to home, cos you don’t have the range) | |||
"My other concern with EV's is my commute - 160 miles round trip across Bodmin moor & Dartmoor to Exeter, Now the distance is doable with the range of EV's increasing (as long as theres no diversions or road closures!) - oh & also there's no charging points at my place of work - despite 200 people working there!? But my issue is that in the 15 years I've been treading the tarmac I've been snowed in a few times on the moor & spent the night in the car waiting for a snowplough, friendly tractor driver or the snow to melt - some of these events have made the national news, Now when snowed in I've fired up the car, whacked the heater on, kept the phone charging & gone on fab! In an EV I'm guessing I freeze to death??
And this is in the SW where let's face it it's pretty mild - up norf it must be a more common occurrence....
I’m pretty sure the EV brigade will tell you that the weather conditions you describe are extreme, and you would only freeze the death occasionally.
But everything will be fine at some stage in the future, when EV’s are actually fit for purpose
How this helps "Ah cool - as long as I'd only freeze to death occasionally then I can take that x | |||
"My other concern with EV's is my commute - 160 miles round trip across Bodmin moor & Dartmoor to Exeter, Now the distance is doable with the range of EV's increasing (as long as theres no diversions or road closures!) - oh & also there's no charging points at my place of work - despite 200 people working there!? But my issue is that in the 15 years I've been treading the tarmac I've been snowed in a few times on the moor & spent the night in the car waiting for a snowplough, friendly tractor driver or the snow to melt - some of these events have made the national news, Now when snowed in I've fired up the car, whacked the heater on, kept the phone charging & gone on fab! In an EV I'm guessing I freeze to death??
And this is in the SW where let's face it it's pretty mild - up norf it must be a more common occurrence....
I’m pretty sure the EV brigade will tell you that the weather conditions you describe are extreme, and you would only freeze the death occasionally.
But everything will be fine at some stage in the future, when EV’s are actually fit for purpose
How this helps
Ah cool - as long as I'd only freeze to death occasionally then I can take that x"Good man, some people would be a bit sappier about it. | |||
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"Hydrogen is the answer! Hydrogen will NEVER be the answer until Nuclear Fission is established.. To conceive the idea that all UK boilers and cars will be converted to it as a fuel, is a dream many years beyond our lifetimes. To generate 1kw the equivalent energy from hydrolysis of water needs 1.2-1.5kw power putting in. My boiler runs at 12kw/h methane, meaning my single house needs 14.5kw/h electricity somewhere to make the Hydrogen gas to support it while running. Where is all this energy coming from to make Hydrogen in quantities enough to run over 20million homes and unknown numbers of vehicles, at a time that vehicles and homes are soaking up excess on the Grid with batteries and heat pumps? Currently, it's nothing more than a crazy pipedream - the economics are not there, unless I have missed something? As for VED (Road Tax) - Yes, every vehicle should pay its fair share to the wear and tear and new roads it drives on. It is grossly unfair electric vehicles escape contributions to maintenance of the highways." I think you’re way off the mark here. Bi/Tri mode trains are already being outfitted with hydrogen fuel cells, as are buses and local authority vehicles too. Up till January last year the market share of plug in hybrid vehicles was a smaller percentage than that of hydrogen vehicles. It really is achievable, it just needs political will | |||
" As for VED (Road Tax) - Yes, every vehicle should pay its fair share to the wear and tear and new roads it drives on. It is grossly unfair electric vehicles escape contributions to maintenance of the highways." Not again!!! It is NOT Road Tax. It is Vehicle Excise Duty. A tax on the vehicle. It is nothing to do with roads and hasn't been for decades. The money from VED goes into the central pot. It does not go on roads specifically. | |||
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"I think we are eventually going to go full circle and the commuting we do for business, work and pleasure will eventually downsize considerably. Whereas the internal combustion engine launched a seismic shift and propelled society to explore ever further afield, I feel market economics and climate change pressure, coupled with duty and tax are going to considerably narrow the opportunity to do so by pricing people out of the process. Hybrid working, which the world has had a taster for the last couple of years, had proven that for the majority of jobs, things can be done online. I believe we are going to see the fewer cars in the future, fewer journeys, and less social and business mobility. I think the only mobility will be summer holidays, but with fewer people taking them, the prices will increase because the supply pool will dwindle. Potentially going back to the medieval period where you were born, lived and died all in the same village, and had no need or desire to go to the village 5 miles down the road. You could argue that folks still need to shop. Perhaps they do. But if my experience is anything to go by, I’ve obtained everything I’ve needed from Amazon in the last 2 years, and it’s made me revaluate my need for a town centre or even out of town shopping outlet. If it cannot be delivered, I’m not interested and would sooner go without. " Oh I agree the high street is dying out. It has been for quite some time. If not for the push from local council authorities I dare say many would be already gone. The work from home thing has been a real eye opener for many. It has very much shocked me that it’s not become more integrated into life since 2020, but it’s still early days, and with central government wanting a “return to normal”, I’d say the future of working from home is unknown, but potentially quite bleak. I predict that at some point the government is going to start incentivising businesses to get staff back into the office. | |||
"My other concern with EV's is my commute - 160 miles round trip across Bodmin moor & Dartmoor to Exeter, Now the distance is doable with the range of EV's increasing (as long as theres no diversions or road closures!) - oh & also there's no charging points at my place of work - despite 200 people working there!? But my issue is that in the 15 years I've been treading the tarmac I've been snowed in a few times on the moor & spent the night in the car waiting for a snowplough, friendly tractor driver or the snow to melt - some of these events have made the national news, Now when snowed in I've fired up the car, whacked the heater on, kept the phone charging & gone on fab! In an EV I'm guessing I freeze to death??
And this is in the SW where let's face it it's pretty mild - up norf it must be a more common occurrence....
I’m pretty sure the EV brigade will tell you that the weather conditions you describe are extreme, and you would only freeze the death occasionally.
But everything will be fine at some stage in the future, when EV’s are actually fit for purpose
How this helps
Ah cool - as long as I'd only freeze to death occasionally then I can take that x
Good man, some people would be a bit sappier about it. "Probably need to rethink this idea. EV's heat the vehicle using heat pumps which are massively more efficient than running a petrol engine and using waste heat. Even allowing for the fact that petrol tanks hold far more energy than batteries, you'd run out of petrol keeping your car warm way before electric for a matching fuel/charge level ie, full battery, full tank, half battery half tank etc. Think about it, a 1kW electric fan heater would easily heat a vehicle and heat pumps are far more efficient than that but let's assume you have circulation issues, are a chronic freezer and have an inefficient heater, you're driving home, only have 25% of your 80KWh battery left - that's 20 hours of contimuous heating. You're not going to freeze to death. Good luck running your diesel for 20 hours on 1/4 of a tank. Mr | |||
| |||
"My other concern with EV's is my commute - 160 miles round trip across Bodmin moor & Dartmoor to Exeter, Now the distance is doable with the range of EV's increasing (as long as theres no diversions or road closures!) - oh & also there's no charging points at my place of work - despite 200 people working there!? But my issue is that in the 15 years I've been treading the tarmac I've been snowed in a few times on the moor & spent the night in the car waiting for a snowplough, friendly tractor driver or the snow to melt - some of these events have made the national news, Now when snowed in I've fired up the car, whacked the heater on, kept the phone charging & gone on fab! In an EV I'm guessing I freeze to death??
And this is in the SW where let's face it it's pretty mild - up norf it must be a more common occurrence....
I’m pretty sure the EV brigade will tell you that the weather conditions you describe are extreme, and you would only freeze the death occasionally.
But everything will be fine at some stage in the future, when EV’s are actually fit for purpose
How this helps
Ah cool - as long as I'd only freeze to death occasionally then I can take that x
Good man, some people would be a bit sappier about it.
Probably need to rethink this idea. EV's heat the vehicle using heat pumps which are massively more efficient than running a petrol engine and using waste heat. Even allowing for the fact that petrol tanks hold far more energy than batteries, you'd run out of petrol keeping your car warm way before electric for a matching fuel/charge level ie, full battery, full tank, half battery half tank etc.
Think about it, a 1kW electric fan heater would easily heat a vehicle and heat pumps are far more efficient than that but let's assume you have circulation issues, are a chronic freezer and have an inefficient heater, you're driving home, only have 25% of your 80KWh battery left - that's 20 hours of contimuous heating. You're not going to freeze to death. Good luck running your diesel for 20 hours on 1/4 of a tank.
Mr"show me a battery that works well in the cold, my friend has a i3 and looses almost half his range when its freezing compaired to summer | |||
)
Anyone any ideas? And no, I don't have eleventy thousand pounds and no, I don't qualify for Motability either (I paid for my adaptation myself  ) | |||
"My other concern with EV's is my commute - 160 miles round trip across Bodmin moor & Dartmoor to Exeter, Now the distance is doable with the range of EV's increasing (as long as theres no diversions or road closures!) - oh & also there's no charging points at my place of work - despite 200 people working there!? But my issue is that in the 15 years I've been treading the tarmac I've been snowed in a few times on the moor & spent the night in the car waiting for a snowplough, friendly tractor driver or the snow to melt - some of these events have made the national news, Now when snowed in I've fired up the car, whacked the heater on, kept the phone charging & gone on fab! In an EV I'm guessing I freeze to death??
And this is in the SW where let's face it it's pretty mild - up norf it must be a more common occurrence....
I’m pretty sure the EV brigade will tell you that the weather conditions you describe are extreme, and you would only freeze the death occasionally.
But everything will be fine at some stage in the future, when EV’s are actually fit for purpose
How this helps
Ah cool - as long as I'd only freeze to death occasionally then I can take that x
Good man, some people would be a bit sappier about it.
Probably need to rethink this idea. EV's heat the vehicle using heat pumps which are massively more efficient than running a petrol engine and using waste heat. Even allowing for the fact that petrol tanks hold far more energy than batteries, you'd run out of petrol keeping your car warm way before electric for a matching fuel/charge level ie, full battery, full tank, half battery half tank etc.
Think about it, a 1kW electric fan heater would easily heat a vehicle and heat pumps are far more efficient than that but let's assume you have circulation issues, are a chronic freezer and have an inefficient heater, you're driving home, only have 25% of your 80KWh battery left - that's 20 hours of contimuous heating. You're not going to freeze to death. Good luck running your diesel for 20 hours on 1/4 of a tank.
Mr
show me a battery that works well in the cold, my friend has a i3 and looses almost half his range when its freezing compaired to summer"An idling Diesel engine will burn approx 2 litres of fuel per hour at idle. A average 55 litre rank would last 27 hours. Dr Kathrine collet, Oxford university claims that a Nissan lead will last 20 hours with only its heater on. I’m not sure those figures include sub zero conditions where battery performance is greatly reduced. | |||
"On a separate but related note, where are the electric vehicles with proper boot space? I need a proper boot for my wheelchair. I currently drive a Renault Sport Tourer estate (diesel) and it's amazing for wheelchair stowage. My wheelchair is rigid frame (cannot be folded beyond the back folding forward). The wheels pop off the frame but assembling/disassembling it while trying not to fall flat on your face, balanced on crutches isn't worth the titting about (or injuries). Many rigid frame chair users sacrifice the front seat and manipulate their chair via a very elaborate mechanism over the steering wheel and onto the passenger seat but this requires the chair to be all the way back and you can't therefore get even a child in the back seat behind. Never mind get your husband, a 5yo and a 19yo in. Front seat stowage = not an option. In addition, I often put all the back seats down and put a sports wheelchair in too (and those fuckers do NOT fold at all. Not even a bit). Not one single electric or hybrid taxi I've travelled in has been able to stow my rigid frame day chair without having to pop the wheels off, perform jiggery-pokery with the frame position and also remove the anti tip wheel on the back (fiddly, requires removal of a small pin under the seat). I've been "down graded" on Uber as a rider because of the extra smattering of time it takes the driver (yes, help required!) to help me take it to bits and reassemble it. I am NOT giving up my boring old RELIABLE and adapted French estate car until someone can at least show me an electric car that has a boot that is the same as an estate car. Whilst I ADORE my hand clutch, I could tolerate (just about) an automatic, if I had to (boring things )
Anyone any ideas? And no, I don't have eleventy thousand pounds and no, I don't qualify for Motability either (I paid for my adaptation myself )"my dad was in a wheelchair, his folded and had quick release wheels, once the wheels and footplates were off and it was folded it fitted in any normal boot, maybe a thought , adapt the chair not the car | |||
"On a separate but related note, where are the electric vehicles with proper boot space? I need a proper boot for my wheelchair. I currently drive a Renault Sport Tourer estate (diesel) and it's amazing for wheelchair stowage. My wheelchair is rigid frame (cannot be folded beyond the back folding forward). The wheels pop off the frame but assembling/disassembling it while trying not to fall flat on your face, balanced on crutches isn't worth the titting about (or injuries). Many rigid frame chair users sacrifice the front seat and manipulate their chair via a very elaborate mechanism over the steering wheel and onto the passenger seat but this requires the chair to be all the way back and you can't therefore get even a child in the back seat behind. Never mind get your husband, a 5yo and a 19yo in. Front seat stowage = not an option. In addition, I often put all the back seats down and put a sports wheelchair in too (and those fuckers do NOT fold at all. Not even a bit). Not one single electric or hybrid taxi I've travelled in has been able to stow my rigid frame day chair without having to pop the wheels off, perform jiggery-pokery with the frame position and also remove the anti tip wheel on the back (fiddly, requires removal of a small pin under the seat). I've been "down graded" on Uber as a rider because of the extra smattering of time it takes the driver (yes, help required!) to help me take it to bits and reassemble it. I am NOT giving up my boring old RELIABLE and adapted French estate car until someone can at least show me an electric car that has a boot that is the same as an estate car. Whilst I ADORE my hand clutch, I could tolerate (just about) an automatic, if I had to (boring things )
Anyone any ideas? And no, I don't have eleventy thousand pounds and no, I don't qualify for Motability either (I paid for my adaptation myself )
my dad was in a wheelchair, his folded and had quick release wheels, once the wheels and footplates were off and it was folded it fitted in any normal boot, maybe a thought , adapt the chair not the car"No. | |||
"Yeah bring back the donkey and cart! We have a Tesla that is purely solar powered from our panels and not only are we covered against fuel costs, electricity costs and maintenance but we also get new features on the car every few months. Electric cars are the future and mine offers zero pollution after being built. Best of all there isn't a single ice car it can't overtake - we love it but can understand that it grey, miserable England it isn't that practical but judging by some of the comments - wind power could easily work out for a few of you!
If you are under the impression that your car offers zero pollution post build you are wrong "What a well researched argument - are you a Brexit voter? Supporter of Prince Andrew and Jimmy Saville? You have astounding powers or persuasion and I can categorically state you are absolutely wrong as our car runs purely off solar! | |||
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"Yeah bring back the donkey and cart! We have a Tesla that is purely solar powered from our panels and not only are we covered against fuel costs, electricity costs and maintenance but we also get new features on the car every few months. Electric cars are the future and mine offers zero pollution after being built. Best of all there isn't a single ice car it can't overtake - we love it but can understand that it grey, miserable England it isn't that practical but judging by some of the comments - wind power could easily work out for a few of you!
If you are under the impression that your car offers zero pollution post build you are wrong
What a well researched argument - are you a Brexit voter? Supporter of Prince Andrew and Jimmy Saville? You have astounding powers or persuasion and I can categorically state you are absolutely wrong as our car runs purely off solar!"Don’t forget that your Tesla weighs twice a much as an ice car. The wear on the road surface will be higher. Then there is the extra wear on tyres & brakes, which both pollute. I do love your solar set up though. | |||
"My other concern with EV's is my commute - 160 miles round trip across Bodmin moor & Dartmoor to Exeter, Now the distance is doable with the range of EV's increasing (as long as theres no diversions or road closures!) - oh & also there's no charging points at my place of work - despite 200 people working there!? But my issue is that in the 15 years I've been treading the tarmac I've been snowed in a few times on the moor & spent the night in the car waiting for a snowplough, friendly tractor driver or the snow to melt - some of these events have made the national news, Now when snowed in I've fired up the car, whacked the heater on, kept the phone charging & gone on fab! In an EV I'm guessing I freeze to death??
And this is in the SW where let's face it it's pretty mild - up norf it must be a more common occurrence....
I’m pretty sure the EV brigade will tell you that the weather conditions you describe are extreme, and you would only freeze the death occasionally.
But everything will be fine at some stage in the future, when EV’s are actually fit for purpose
How this helps
Ah cool - as long as I'd only freeze to death occasionally then I can take that x
Good man, some people would be a bit sappier about it.
Probably need to rethink this idea. EV's heat the vehicle using heat pumps which are massively more efficient than running a petrol engine and using waste heat. Even allowing for the fact that petrol tanks hold far more energy than batteries, you'd run out of petrol keeping your car warm way before electric for a matching fuel/charge level ie, full battery, full tank, half battery half tank etc.
Think about it, a 1kW electric fan heater would easily heat a vehicle and heat pumps are far more efficient than that but let's assume you have circulation issues, are a chronic freezer and have an inefficient heater, you're driving home, only have 25% of your 80KWh battery left - that's 20 hours of contimuous heating. You're not going to freeze to death. Good luck running your diesel for 20 hours on 1/4 of a tank.
Mr
show me a battery that works well in the cold, my friend has a i3 and looses almost half his range when its freezing compaired to summer
An idling Diesel engine will burn approx 2 litres of fuel per hour at idle. A average 55 litre rank would last 27 hours.
Dr Kathrine collet, Oxford university claims that a Nissan lead will last 20 hours with only its heater on.
I’m not sure those figures include sub zero conditions where battery performance is greatly reduced."You do know a Nissan leaf isn't the only electric vehicle? Do you know what the conditions were for this statement? Some guy on you tube actually did an experiment with two Teslas because of these questions. Left over night in -10°C weather heater set for 21°C in the cab and the heated seats on - 12 hours used 33% of the battery. One again, its fine that you don't like EV's, no one says you have to but believing nonsense just because it doesn't fit in with your opinion is a bit strange. Mr | |||
"Yeah bring back the donkey and cart! We have a Tesla that is purely solar powered from our panels and not only are we covered against fuel costs, electricity costs and maintenance but we also get new features on the car every few months. Electric cars are the future and mine offers zero pollution after being built. Best of all there isn't a single ice car it can't overtake - we love it but can understand that it grey, miserable England it isn't that practical but judging by some of the comments - wind power could easily work out for a few of you!
If you are under the impression that your car offers zero pollution post build you are wrong
What a well researched argument - are you a Brexit voter? Supporter of Prince Andrew and Jimmy Saville? You have astounding powers or persuasion and I can categorically state you are absolutely wrong as our car runs purely off solar!"Odd accusations to throw at someone. They don’t agree with you so must somehow be a supporter of Jimmy Savile? | |||
"Yeah bring back the donkey and cart! We have a Tesla that is purely solar powered from our panels and not only are we covered against fuel costs, electricity costs and maintenance but we also get new features on the car every few months. Electric cars are the future and mine offers zero pollution after being built. Best of all there isn't a single ice car it can't overtake - we love it but can understand that it grey, miserable England it isn't that practical but judging by some of the comments - wind power could easily work out for a few of you!
If you are under the impression that your car offers zero pollution post build you are wrong
What a well researched argument - are you a Brexit voter? Supporter of Prince Andrew and Jimmy Saville? You have astounding powers or persuasion and I can categorically state you are absolutely wrong as our car runs purely off solar!"Who’s arguing. Simply stating a rather obvious truth. If you think the pollution potential of your vehicle is confined to building it and charging it you are wrong, simple as. | |||
"My other concern with EV's is my commute - 160 miles round trip across Bodmin moor & Dartmoor to Exeter, Now the distance is doable with the range of EV's increasing (as long as theres no diversions or road closures!) - oh & also there's no charging points at my place of work - despite 200 people working there!? But my issue is that in the 15 years I've been treading the tarmac I've been snowed in a few times on the moor & spent the night in the car waiting for a snowplough, friendly tractor driver or the snow to melt - some of these events have made the national news, Now when snowed in I've fired up the car, whacked the heater on, kept the phone charging & gone on fab! In an EV I'm guessing I freeze to death??
And this is in the SW where let's face it it's pretty mild - up norf it must be a more common occurrence....
I’m pretty sure the EV brigade will tell you that the weather conditions you describe are extreme, and you would only freeze the death occasionally.
But everything will be fine at some stage in the future, when EV’s are actually fit for purpose
How this helps
Ah cool - as long as I'd only freeze to death occasionally then I can take that x
Good man, some people would be a bit sappier about it.
Probably need to rethink this idea. EV's heat the vehicle using heat pumps which are massively more efficient than running a petrol engine and using waste heat. Even allowing for the fact that petrol tanks hold far more energy than batteries, you'd run out of petrol keeping your car warm way before electric for a matching fuel/charge level ie, full battery, full tank, half battery half tank etc.
Think about it, a 1kW electric fan heater would easily heat a vehicle and heat pumps are far more efficient than that but let's assume you have circulation issues, are a chronic freezer and have an inefficient heater, you're driving home, only have 25% of your 80KWh battery left - that's 20 hours of contimuous heating. You're not going to freeze to death. Good luck running your diesel for 20 hours on 1/4 of a tank.
Mr
show me a battery that works well in the cold, my friend has a i3 and looses almost half his range when its freezing compaired to summer
An idling Diesel engine will burn approx 2 litres of fuel per hour at idle. A average 55 litre rank would last 27 hours.
Dr Kathrine collet, Oxford university claims that a Nissan lead will last 20 hours with only its heater on.
I’m not sure those figures include sub zero conditions where battery performance is greatly reduced.
You do know a Nissan leaf isn't the only electric vehicle? Do you know what the conditions were for this statement? Some guy on you tube actually did an experiment with two Teslas because of these questions. Left over night in -10°C weather heater set for 21°C in the cab and the heated seats on - 12 hours used 33% of the battery. One again, its fine that you don't like EV's, no one says you have to but believing nonsense just because it doesn't fit in with your opinion is a bit strange.
Mr"Citing “some guy on the tube” as a reference point! ROFL ?? | |||
"Hydrogen is the answer! Hydrogen will NEVER be the answer until Nuclear Fission is established.. To conceive the idea that all UK boilers and cars will be converted to it as a fuel, is a dream many years beyond our lifetimes. To generate 1kw the equivalent energy from hydrolysis of water needs 1.2-1.5kw power putting in. My boiler runs at 12kw/h methane, meaning my single house needs 14.5kw/h electricity somewhere to make the Hydrogen gas to support it while running. Where is all this energy coming from to make Hydrogen in quantities enough to run over 20million homes and unknown numbers of vehicles, at a time that vehicles and homes are soaking up excess on the Grid with batteries and heat pumps? Currently, it's nothing more than a crazy pipedream - the economics are not there, unless I have missed something? As for VED (Road Tax) - Yes, every vehicle should pay its fair share to the wear and tear and new roads it drives on. It is grossly unfair electric vehicles escape contributions to maintenance of the highways. I think you’re way off the mark here. Bi/Tri mode trains are already being outfitted with hydrogen fuel cells, as are buses and local authority vehicles too. Up till January last year the market share of plug in hybrid vehicles was a smaller percentage than that of hydrogen vehicles. It really is achievable, it just needs political will " I'd love to know where your info comes from. As far as I can see there are very few Fuel Cell Vehicles in the uk. There seem to only be 14 filling points in the country, with none in the North. A few trial projects are ongoing with busses, but these are still very small numbers (50 in London, 30 in Birmingham, etc..). Lorries trials seem to be happening more in countries where Green Hydrogen is guaranteed... such as Switzerland and Iceland who use renewable for nearly all their power. Cal | |||
"My other concern with EV's is my commute - 160 miles round trip across Bodmin moor & Dartmoor to Exeter, Now the distance is doable with the range of EV's increasing (as long as theres no diversions or road closures!) - oh & also there's no charging points at my place of work - despite 200 people working there!? But my issue is that in the 15 years I've been treading the tarmac I've been snowed in a few times on the moor & spent the night in the car waiting for a snowplough, friendly tractor driver or the snow to melt - some of these events have made the national news, Now when snowed in I've fired up the car, whacked the heater on, kept the phone charging & gone on fab! In an EV I'm guessing I freeze to death??
And this is in the SW where let's face it it's pretty mild - up norf it must be a more common occurrence....
I’m pretty sure the EV brigade will tell you that the weather conditions you describe are extreme, and you would only freeze the death occasionally.
But everything will be fine at some stage in the future, when EV’s are actually fit for purpose
How this helps
Ah cool - as long as I'd only freeze to death occasionally then I can take that x
Good man, some people would be a bit sappier about it.
Probably need to rethink this idea. EV's heat the vehicle using heat pumps which are massively more efficient than running a petrol engine and using waste heat. Even allowing for the fact that petrol tanks hold far more energy than batteries, you'd run out of petrol keeping your car warm way before electric for a matching fuel/charge level ie, full battery, full tank, half battery half tank etc.
Think about it, a 1kW electric fan heater would easily heat a vehicle and heat pumps are far more efficient than that but let's assume you have circulation issues, are a chronic freezer and have an inefficient heater, you're driving home, only have 25% of your 80KWh battery left - that's 20 hours of contimuous heating. You're not going to freeze to death. Good luck running your diesel for 20 hours on 1/4 of a tank.
Mr
show me a battery that works well in the cold, my friend has a i3 and looses almost half his range when its freezing compaired to summer
An idling Diesel engine will burn approx 2 litres of fuel per hour at idle. A average 55 litre rank would last 27 hours.
Dr Kathrine collet, Oxford university claims that a Nissan lead will last 20 hours with only its heater on.
I’m not sure those figures include sub zero conditions where battery performance is greatly reduced.
You do know a Nissan leaf isn't the only electric vehicle? Do you know what the conditions were for this statement? Some guy on you tube actually did an experiment with two Teslas because of these questions. Left over night in -10°C weather heater set for 21°C in the cab and the heated seats on - 12 hours used 33% of the battery. One again, its fine that you don't like EV's, no one says you have to but believing nonsense just because it doesn't fit in with your opinion is a bit strange.
Mr
Citing “some guy on the tube” as a reference point! ROFL ?? "Yes, it's youtube but a basic understanding of physics means nothing he shows doesn't add up. A 100kwh battery (that is in one of the Teslas) holds a lot of energy. As I said before, an ICE vehicle produces heat as a waste product, engine on, there's spare heat, engine off, there's none. Your only option to conserve energy is to only run the engine intermittently but your fuel consumption will always be in direct correlation to the run time. With an EV, not only can you choose to turn the heating off for periods of time you can choose to turn it down and thus increase battery life. Let's say I believe that cold weather halves a battery range, so our available energy in the 100kWh Tesla drops to 50kWh - that's 50 hours of running a 1kw heater and you do not need 1kw to heat a car. You will not get 50 hours of heat time from an ICE vehicle on one tank. I honestly have no idea why so many people bang on about this. a) As discussed, an EV has far more efficient and controllable means of heaying it than ICE vehicles and b) when have you ever changed your mind about which car to buy based on concern for how many hours you could survive in a blizzard given its fuel tank capavity? Mr | |||
"My other concern with EV's is my commute - 160 miles round trip across Bodmin moor & Dartmoor to Exeter, Now the distance is doable with the range of EV's increasing (as long as theres no diversions or road closures!) - oh & also there's no charging points at my place of work - despite 200 people working there!? But my issue is that in the 15 years I've been treading the tarmac I've been snowed in a few times on the moor & spent the night in the car waiting for a snowplough, friendly tractor driver or the snow to melt - some of these events have made the national news, Now when snowed in I've fired up the car, whacked the heater on, kept the phone charging & gone on fab! In an EV I'm guessing I freeze to death??
And this is in the SW where let's face it it's pretty mild - up norf it must be a more common occurrence....
I’m pretty sure the EV brigade will tell you that the weather conditions you describe are extreme, and you would only freeze the death occasionally.
But everything will be fine at some stage in the future, when EV’s are actually fit for purpose
How this helps
Ah cool - as long as I'd only freeze to death occasionally then I can take that x
Good man, some people would be a bit sappier about it.
Probably need to rethink this idea. EV's heat the vehicle using heat pumps which are massively more efficient than running a petrol engine and using waste heat. Even allowing for the fact that petrol tanks hold far more energy than batteries, you'd run out of petrol keeping your car warm way before electric for a matching fuel/charge level ie, full battery, full tank, half battery half tank etc.
Think about it, a 1kW electric fan heater would easily heat a vehicle and heat pumps are far more efficient than that but let's assume you have circulation issues, are a chronic freezer and have an inefficient heater, you're driving home, only have 25% of your 80KWh battery left - that's 20 hours of contimuous heating. You're not going to freeze to death. Good luck running your diesel for 20 hours on 1/4 of a tank.
Mr
show me a battery that works well in the cold, my friend has a i3 and looses almost half his range when its freezing compaired to summer
An idling Diesel engine will burn approx 2 litres of fuel per hour at idle. A average 55 litre rank would last 27 hours.
Dr Kathrine collet, Oxford university claims that a Nissan lead will last 20 hours with only its heater on.
I’m not sure those figures include sub zero conditions where battery performance is greatly reduced.
You do know a Nissan leaf isn't the only electric vehicle? Do you know what the conditions were for this statement? Some guy on you tube actually did an experiment with two Teslas because of these questions. Left over night in -10°C weather heater set for 21°C in the cab and the heated seats on - 12 hours used 33% of the battery. One again, its fine that you don't like EV's, no one says you have to but believing nonsense just because it doesn't fit in with your opinion is a bit strange.
Mr
Citing “some guy on the tube” as a reference point! ROFL ??
Yes, it's youtube but a basic understanding of physics means nothing he shows doesn't add up. A 100kwh battery (that is in one of the Teslas) holds a lot of energy. As I said before, an ICE vehicle produces heat as a waste product, engine on, there's spare heat, engine off, there's none. Your only option to conserve energy is to only run the engine intermittently but your fuel consumption will always be in direct correlation to the run time. With an EV, not only can you choose to turn the heating off for periods of time you can choose to turn it down and thus increase battery life. Let's say I believe that cold weather halves a battery range, so our available energy in the 100kWh Tesla drops to 50kWh - that's 50 hours of running a 1kw heater and you do not need 1kw to heat a car. You will not get 50 hours of heat time from an ICE vehicle on one tank.
I honestly have no idea why so many people bang on about this. a) As discussed, an EV has far more efficient and controllable means of heaying it than ICE vehicles and b) when have you ever changed your mind about which car to buy based on concern for how many hours you could survive in a blizzard given its fuel tank capavity?
Mr"I have never had to consider tank capacity when buying cars, because ice cars usually have ranges that car exceed any journeys that I undertake. If bmw (for example), came out with a nice new car that I liked the look of, but only had a tank big enough to get me 150 miles, then I would not buy it. I would go for one of the many other cars that can do 600-700 miles on a single tank | |||
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"Still no information on electric cars with proper boot capacity (because they don't exist?) We can't all manage with little roller skate thingies... " Exactly. When they start producing a range of vehicles to suit people’s needs at a price that is affordable perhaps we’ll be getting somewhere. | |||
" I have never had to consider tank capacity when buying cars, because ice cars usually have ranges that car exceed any journeys that I undertake. If bmw (for example), came out with a nice new car that I liked the look of, but only had a tank big enough to get me 150 miles, then I would not buy it. I would go for one of the many other cars that can do 600-700 miles on a single tank " Range is a legitimate concern. I've never argued against that. My issue is the way people come up with the most bizarre hypothetical situations in order to argue against EV's. No one in the history of motoring has ever based their choice of car on how long it can keep them warm in a blizzard yet for some reason, despite even a basic understanding of thermodynamics showing that an EV is going to be many many more times efficient in its use of energy to heat the vehicle, it seems to be a popular way of bashing the technology. An EV that has the range you need will be able to keep you warm, exactly the same as an ICE vehicle, it really is that simple. Obviously, if the batteries are low it will run out sooner but that is just a true of an ICE vehicle. The only thing that can be said in favour of this argument is that it's a useful way of knowing whether the person you're talking to is open minded and is genuinely interested in looking at the best solution or is ideologically opposed to the idea of EV's and has a mind that is slammed shut. Anyone presenting this argument is uninterested in facts and wants to stick in their little bubble of beliefs. Mr | |||
"Still no information on electric cars with proper boot capacity (because they don't exist?) We can't all manage with little roller skate thingies... " Have you actually looked? I don't believe you guys are the sort to just regurgitate opinions but seriously, go have a look. There are many in the 450 - 500 litre range, we're actively looking at them at the moment. Mr | |||
"Hydrogen is the answer!" Yep. Agree with this. Especially if the hydrogen can be produced via solar/wind energy. Splitting of the water molecule into its constituent oxygen and hydrogen gases requires an immense amount of electricity. But companies like ITMpower (UK based) do exactly this. It looks like hydrogen may be used to power our gas boilers once our natural gas reserves dwindle. | |||
" I have never had to consider tank capacity when buying cars, because ice cars usually have ranges that car exceed any journeys that I undertake. If bmw (for example), came out with a nice new car that I liked the look of, but only had a tank big enough to get me 150 miles, then I would not buy it. I would go for one of the many other cars that can do 600-700 miles on a single tank Range is a legitimate concern. I've never argued against that. My issue is the way people come up with the most bizarre hypothetical situations in order to argue against EV's. No one in the history of motoring has ever based their choice of car on how long it can keep them warm in a blizzard yet for some reason, despite even a basic understanding of thermodynamics showing that an EV is going to be many many more times efficient in its use of energy to heat the vehicle, it seems to be a popular way of bashing the technology. An EV that has the range you need will be able to keep you warm, exactly the same as an ICE vehicle, it really is that simple. Obviously, if the batteries are low it will run out sooner but that is just a true of an ICE vehicle. The only thing that can be said in favour of this argument is that it's a useful way of knowing whether the person you're talking to is open minded and is genuinely interested in looking at the best solution or is ideologically opposed to the idea of EV's and has a mind that is slammed shut. Anyone presenting this argument is uninterested in facts and wants to stick in their little bubble of beliefs. Mr" Ranges and charging times are nowhere near good enough. I can imagine a time in the future when it’s a no-brainer, with electric cars being cheaper, more reliable, with 2,000 mile ranges. But I have no idea when that will be. In the meantime, I am not prepared to pay over the odds for a car that achieves less. | |||
"Still no information on electric cars with proper boot capacity (because they don't exist?) We can't all manage with little roller skate thingies... Have you actually looked? I don't believe you guys are the sort to just regurgitate opinions but seriously, go have a look. There are many in the 450 - 500 litre range, we're actively looking at them at the moment. Mr" There are so many different vehicles available now with boot capacity in excess of 400 litres. All the Tesla range does (new model Y now being delivered), The Ionic 5 has a huge boot, as do the VW ID5 and Skoda Enyaq. If price is an issue, the MG ZS is well priced for an EV. | |||
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"Still no information on electric cars with proper boot capacity (because they don't exist?) We can't all manage with little roller skate thingies... " My main vehicle is a van as I play in bands and need the space. There are currently no decent van options that could replace my diesel one without spending over £100k | |||
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" I have never had to consider tank capacity when buying cars, because ice cars usually have ranges that car exceed any journeys that I undertake. If bmw (for example), came out with a nice new car that I liked the look of, but only had a tank big enough to get me 150 miles, then I would not buy it. I would go for one of the many other cars that can do 600-700 miles on a single tank Range is a legitimate concern. I've never argued against that. My issue is the way people come up with the most bizarre hypothetical situations in order to argue against EV's. No one in the history of motoring has ever based their choice of car on how long it can keep them warm in a blizzard yet for some reason, despite even a basic understanding of thermodynamics showing that an EV is going to be many many more times efficient in its use of energy to heat the vehicle, it seems to be a popular way of bashing the technology. An EV that has the range you need will be able to keep you warm, exactly the same as an ICE vehicle, it really is that simple. Obviously, if the batteries are low it will run out sooner but that is just a true of an ICE vehicle. The only thing that can be said in favour of this argument is that it's a useful way of knowing whether the person you're talking to is open minded and is genuinely interested in looking at the best solution or is ideologically opposed to the idea of EV's and has a mind that is slammed shut. Anyone presenting this argument is uninterested in facts and wants to stick in their little bubble of beliefs. Mr Ranges and charging times are nowhere near good enough. I can imagine a time in the future when it’s a no-brainer, with electric cars being cheaper, more reliable, with 2,000 mile ranges. But I have no idea when that will be. In the meantime, I am not prepared to pay over the odds for a car that achieves less. " Now that is an argument I can respect. Personally I feel that if I'm looking at buying a new car (I am) given that the environmental cost of manufacture isn't badly different but the carbon foot print of running the thing is I'm prepared to pay that extra price. Yes it will mean considering things that I previously didn't but I'm prepared to swap a quick Google to check charger locations on longer trips for an oil swap every 6 months. In return, I know that increased demand will speed up the infrastructure changes needed to make the technology more user friendly for all - I consider that a worth while investment for my money. That said, it is only recently that the cost, range and charging infrastructure have reached a level that has made that switch seem reasonable to me so I'm quite prepared to accept that for others it's not there yet. These are reasonable and valid arguments. What annoys me is outright hostility to the idea dressed up in nonsense arguments. Mr | |||
"Still no information on electric cars with proper boot capacity (because they don't exist?) We can't all manage with little roller skate thingies... Have you actually looked? I don't believe you guys are the sort to just regurgitate opinions but seriously, go have a look. There are many in the 450 - 500 litre range, we're actively looking at them at the moment. Mr" My current car has a boot capacity of 524 litres, increasing to 1,600 litres with the back seats down (for stowage of a sports chair as well as day chair). And it's not just about capacity. It's about dimensions (especially boot height and aperture dimensions) and the loading lip. I had to hire an SUV while my car went for the adapted clutch to be repaired and I couldn't cope with lifting my chair up into the high level boot with a massive lip on it. I drag my chair out of the current car boot without really lifting at the moment. We also hired a Seat Ateca (conventional fuel) on holiday. Apparently that has a capacity of 510 litres but because of the shape of the boot, my chair would not go in without the wheels being removed. It was actually a really good car otherwise but I wouldn't buy one because of the boot. The only EV I've seen that comes close capacity-wise to my current estate car is a Volvo. I haven't assessed the shape of the boot/aperture and lip of the boot. It's also so expensive that it costs more than my annual salary to purchase one. That's ONE car to choose from. One. The estate car "shape" doesn't seem to be prevalent in the EV market. My chair will not go into Nissan Leafs, Toyota Prius or similar shapes without being disassembled and unless I have help on hand, I simply cannot do it (and I DON'T have help on hand much of the time!) There are some hybrid options but hybrids are still using traditional fuels to a greater or lesser extent. | |||
"Still no information on electric cars with proper boot capacity (because they don't exist?) We can't all manage with little roller skate thingies... Have you actually looked? I don't believe you guys are the sort to just regurgitate opinions but seriously, go have a look. There are many in the 450 - 500 litre range, we're actively looking at them at the moment. Mr There are so many different vehicles available now with boot capacity in excess of 400 litres. All the Tesla range does (new model Y now being delivered), The Ionic 5 has a huge boot, as do the VW ID5 and Skoda Enyaq. If price is an issue, the MG ZS is well priced for an EV. " My chair won't go in an Ioniq without being disassembled (I've travelled in a taxi that was an Ioniq). 400L is nowhere near enough for a rigid frame wheelchair that does not fold. Check out the RIDC website. We're looking for a "YES" in the field "Will unfolded wheelchair fit in - back row of seats upright". The Renault Sport Tourer (my current diesel) has "YES" in this field. | |||
"Still no information on electric cars with proper boot capacity (because they don't exist?) We can't all manage with little roller skate thingies... Have you actually looked? I don't believe you guys are the sort to just regurgitate opinions but seriously, go have a look. There are many in the 450 - 500 litre range, we're actively looking at them at the moment. Mr My current car has a boot capacity of 524 litres, increasing to 1,600 litres with the back seats down (for stowage of a sports chair as well as day chair). And it's not just about capacity. It's about dimensions (especially boot height and aperture dimensions) and the loading lip. I had to hire an SUV while my car went for the adapted clutch to be repaired and I couldn't cope with lifting my chair up into the high level boot with a massive lip on it. I drag my chair out of the current car boot without really lifting at the moment. We also hired a Seat Ateca (conventional fuel) on holiday. Apparently that has a capacity of 510 litres but because of the shape of the boot, my chair would not go in without the wheels being removed. It was actually a really good car otherwise but I wouldn't buy one because of the boot. The only EV I've seen that comes close capacity-wise to my current estate car is a Volvo. I haven't assessed the shape of the boot/aperture and lip of the boot. It's also so expensive that it costs more than my annual salary to purchase one. That's ONE car to choose from. One. The estate car "shape" doesn't seem to be prevalent in the EV market. My chair will not go into Nissan Leafs, Toyota Prius or similar shapes without being disassembled and unless I have help on hand, I simply cannot do it (and I DON'T have help on hand much of the time!) There are some hybrid options but hybrids are still using traditional fuels to a greater or lesser extent. " Tbf, that's a completely different argument. As above, cost is a legitimate concern but its totally separate to whether or not EV's with large boots exist, or saying EV's are the size of rollerskates. I know exactly what you mean about having a flat boot floor and yes, they are more rare but the Volvo certainly isn't the only example. Mr | |||
"It was always a bad idea to allow certain vehicles to be exempt from road tax as it creates a hole in the finances required to maintain the roads (which is the point of the tax in the first place) which then places an unfair burden on others to cover " No. Officially the road tax doesn't cover highway maintenance. The cost is purely to cover the overheads the system has. It's a misconception that's been perceived for years | |||
"I think there will be duty on electric vehicles based upon the environmental impact of disposal of the batteries at end of life. The impact of having millions of cars requiring new batteries each year hasn’t been assessed yet, add into this the mining of raw material for them and you see the environmental imp of electric vehicles. " That and the electricity to charge said batteries has to come from somewhere, most likely fossil fuels or nuclear power at this time. | |||
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"I think there will be duty on electric vehicles based upon the environmental impact of disposal of the batteries at end of life. The impact of having millions of cars requiring new batteries each year hasn’t been assessed yet, add into this the mining of raw material for them and you see the environmental imp of electric vehicles. That and the electricity to charge said batteries has to come from somewhere, most likely fossil fuels or nuclear power at this time." Battery degradation on our Tesla Model 3 is about 10% every decade where as most motors we know of degrade an awful lot quicker. All of our power comes from our large solar array and we are totally off grid and self sufficient - we also have blade BYD batteries that you can charge to 100% and here in Portugal which has the most renewable electricity supply in Europe we also have plenty of range to get wherever we want. I am sure that people used the same rationale when the wheel was invented or even the first motor car - there will always be people who hate change for changes sake! | |||
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"My other concern with EV's is my commute - 160 miles round trip across Bodmin moor & Dartmoor to Exeter, Now the distance is doable with the range of EV's increasing (as long as theres no diversions or road closures!) - oh & also there's no charging points at my place of work - despite 200 people working there!? But my issue is that in the 15 years I've been treading the tarmac I've been snowed in a few times on the moor & spent the night in the car waiting for a snowplough, friendly tractor driver or the snow to melt - some of these events have made the national news, Now when snowed in I've fired up the car, whacked the heater on, kept the phone charging & gone on fab! In an EV I'm guessing I freeze to death??
And this is in the SW where let's face it it's pretty mild - up norf it must be a more common occurrence....
I’m pretty sure the EV brigade will tell you that the weather conditions you describe are extreme, and you would only freeze the death occasionally.
But everything will be fine at some stage in the future, when EV’s are actually fit for purpose
How this helps
Ah cool - as long as I'd only freeze to death occasionally then I can take that x
Good man, some people would be a bit sappier about it.
Probably need to rethink this idea. EV's heat the vehicle using heat pumps which are massively more efficient than running a petrol engine and using waste heat. Even allowing for the fact that petrol tanks hold far more energy than batteries, you'd run out of petrol keeping your car warm way before electric for a matching fuel/charge level ie, full battery, full tank, half battery half tank etc.
Think about it, a 1kW electric fan heater would easily heat a vehicle and heat pumps are far more efficient than that but let's assume you have circulation issues, are a chronic freezer and have an inefficient heater, you're driving home, only have 25% of your 80KWh battery left - that's 20 hours of contimuous heating. You're not going to freeze to death. Good luck running your diesel for 20 hours on 1/4 of a tank.
Mr
show me a battery that works well in the cold, my friend has a i3 and looses almost half his range when its freezing compaired to summer
An idling Diesel engine will burn approx 2 litres of fuel per hour at idle. A average 55 litre rank would last 27 hours.
Dr Kathrine collet, Oxford university claims that a Nissan lead will last 20 hours with only its heater on.
I’m not sure those figures include sub zero conditions where battery performance is greatly reduced.
You do know a Nissan leaf isn't the only electric vehicle? Do you know what the conditions were for this statement? Some guy on you tube actually did an experiment with two Teslas because of these questions. Left over night in -10°C weather heater set for 21°C in the cab and the heated seats on - 12 hours used 33% of the battery. One again, its fine that you don't like EV's, no one says you have to but believing nonsense just because it doesn't fit in with your opinion is a bit strange.
Mr"What makes you think I don’t like ev’s? I was quoting facts from dr Katherine collet, senior postdoctoral researcher of the energy & power group at Oxford university. You’re quoting Dave from YouTube. I have been lucky enough to be using a Tesla model s (ludicrous). A car that the majority of drivers, myself included, could never afford to buy. The fact is, range drops when sub zero. The car actually has a system of heating the up to make them more efficient. | |||
" I have never had to consider tank capacity when buying cars, because ice cars usually have ranges that car exceed any journeys that I undertake. If bmw (for example), came out with a nice new car that I liked the look of, but only had a tank big enough to get me 150 miles, then I would not buy it. I would go for one of the many other cars that can do 600-700 miles on a single tank Range is a legitimate concern. I've never argued against that. My issue is the way people come up with the most bizarre hypothetical situations in order to argue against EV's. No one in the history of motoring has ever based their choice of car on how long it can keep them warm in a blizzard yet for some reason, despite even a basic understanding of thermodynamics showing that an EV is going to be many many more times efficient in its use of energy to heat the vehicle, it seems to be a popular way of bashing the technology. An EV that has the range you need will be able to keep you warm, exactly the same as an ICE vehicle, it really is that simple. Obviously, if the batteries are low it will run out sooner but that is just a true of an ICE vehicle. The only thing that can be said in favour of this argument is that it's a useful way of knowing whether the person you're talking to is open minded and is genuinely interested in looking at the best solution or is ideologically opposed to the idea of EV's and has a mind that is slammed shut. Anyone presenting this argument is uninterested in facts and wants to stick in their little bubble of beliefs. Mr Ranges and charging times are nowhere near good enough. I can imagine a time in the future when it’s a no-brainer, with electric cars being cheaper, more reliable, with 2,000 mile ranges. But I have no idea when that will be. In the meantime, I am not prepared to pay over the odds for a car that achieves less. Now that is an argument I can respect. Personally I feel that if I'm looking at buying a new car (I am) given that the environmental cost of manufacture isn't badly different but the carbon foot print of running the thing is I'm prepared to pay that extra price. Yes it will mean considering things that I previously didn't but I'm prepared to swap a quick Google to check charger locations on longer trips for an oil swap every 6 months. In return, I know that increased demand will speed up the infrastructure changes needed to make the technology more user friendly for all - I consider that a worth while investment for my money. That said, it is only recently that the cost, range and charging infrastructure have reached a level that has made that switch seem reasonable to me so I'm quite prepared to accept that for others it's not there yet. These are reasonable and valid arguments. What annoys me is outright hostility to the idea dressed up in nonsense arguments. Mr" The hostility and mentioning ridiculous scenarios comes from people feeling that they have to be extreme in order to be persuasive. The middle ground is abandoned in many discussions | |||
" Mr What makes you think I don’t like ev’s? I was quoting facts from dr Katherine collet, senior postdoctoral researcher of the energy & power group at Oxford university. You’re quoting Dave from YouTube. I have been lucky enough to be using a Tesla model s (ludicrous). A car that the majority of drivers, myself included, could never afford to buy. The fact is, range drops when sub zero. The car actually has a system of heating the up to make them more efficient. " You picked a Nissan Leaf now I don't know which model Dr Katherine was talking about, those things have been around for years. You also don't specify the outside temp or the heating settings. However, the Leaf has a 40kWh battery - that is very small by EV standards so let's compare like for like. The Nissan Micra has a 41 litre tank. At your 2 litres an hour figure that's very nearly the same 20 hours running time. In the EV you can turn the heating down and use less battery, in the ICE you either have the engine on or not. I also didn't quote Dave from YouTube, I suggested there are videos that actually answer this question. I know they're not false because the science adds up. An ICE engine uses chemical energy to create kinetic energy. Heat is a waste product and its actually a problem to get rid of hence the coolant and radiator. They are deliberately not built to conserve heat but to throw it away quickly. The amount of heat you will get per joule of energy in your fuel is tiny. EV's either use electric heaters or newer more efficient ones use heat pumps. These don't heat anything up, they simply move heat from outside the vehicle to inside (the opposite of your freezer) and as a rough guide can supply 3kW of heat for every 1kW of electric. Daves YouTube video gives a nice demonstration of this and compares a newer vehicle with a heat pump with an older one with a heating element. Now of course, it is only Dave on tinterweb so feel free to conduct your own experiments. Mr | |||
" Mr What makes you think I don’t like ev’s? I was quoting facts from dr Katherine collet, senior postdoctoral researcher of the energy & power group at Oxford university. You’re quoting Dave from YouTube. I have been lucky enough to be using a Tesla model s (ludicrous). A car that the majority of drivers, myself included, could never afford to buy. The fact is, range drops when sub zero. The car actually has a system of heating the up to make them more efficient. You picked a Nissan Leaf now I don't know which model Dr Katherine was talking about, those things have been around for years. You also don't specify the outside temp or the heating settings. However, the Leaf has a 40kWh battery - that is very small by EV standards so let's compare like for like. The Nissan Micra has a 41 litre tank. At your 2 litres an hour figure that's very nearly the same 20 hours running time. In the EV you can turn the heating down and use less battery, in the ICE you either have the engine on or not. I also didn't quote Dave from YouTube, I suggested there are videos that actually answer this question. I know they're not false because the science adds up. An ICE engine uses chemical energy to create kinetic energy. Heat is a waste product and its actually a problem to get rid of hence the coolant and radiator. They are deliberately not built to conserve heat but to throw it away quickly. The amount of heat you will get per joule of energy in your fuel is tiny. EV's either use electric heaters or newer more efficient ones use heat pumps. These don't heat anything up, they simply move heat from outside the vehicle to inside (the opposite of your freezer) and as a rough guide can supply 3kW of heat for every 1kW of electric. Daves YouTube video gives a nice demonstration of this and compares a newer vehicle with a heat pump with an older one with a heating element. Now of course, it is only Dave on tinterweb so feel free to conduct your own experiments. Mr" Dr Katherine used the leaf as an example, I simply quoted her. Sorry you disagree with her findings. I merely added some known facts to the debate above. I quoted 2 litres per hour as a 1.6 Diesel engine. I agree not like for like exactly but it’s a vehicle that costs about the same as a leaf. Just a quick question on the efficient heat pump. How does moving -10 air from the outside of a vehicle to the inside warm it up ? This is a genuine question. My freezer uses electricity to run the compressor. Or does it use a resistance element to pass the cold air across using a fan or convection system? | |||
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"Well that went well. Come on folks it was more aimed at the usual government U turns. Keep it cordial please. Mrs Mx" I think you mean "turn in the road using forward and reverse gears"  | |||
"It was always a bad idea to allow certain vehicles to be exempt from road tax as it creates a hole in the finances required to maintain the roads (which is the point of the tax in the first place) which then places an unfair burden on others to cover " Wrong tax, council tax pays for the upkeep. The one you refer to, is for the emissions your vehicle puts out. Unless you have a tax exempt car like my VW Beetle, hopefully I won't have to pay now | |||
"I'm concerned about everything being electric as what happens when there is a power cut? How on earth would I be able to get to work?
I currently drive a sports diesel and don't pay any road tax at all which I've never fully understood."I read somewhere. That when the power usage is high, power will be taken from the electric cars and pumped back into the national grid. | |||
"And Portugal gave the world......... Targeting an individuals location because you don't agree with their view is sooooo grown up. Lucky my brother is bigger than yours "Portugal has lovely roads, 320 days of sun a year and thankfully no one who assumes a level of knowledge that is obviously way beyond them, I am sure your brother is bigger than mine though, and you must be so content in the knowledge you are right that you live in the stunning beauty of Gravesend - what a success you are! | |||
"Time to get get back on my bike I think haha " I wouldn't count on it. Sooner or later the govt will start charging for those as well. Got to get as much revenue as possible to pay all of them their wages, expenses, 2nd homes, redecorating costs etc etc. | |||
" Dr Katherine used the leaf as an example, I simply quoted her. Sorry you disagree with her findings. I merely added some known facts to the debate above. I quoted 2 litres per hour as a 1.6 Diesel engine. I agree not like for like exactly but it’s a vehicle that costs about the same as a leaf. Just a quick question on the efficient heat pump. How does moving -10 air from the outside of a vehicle to the inside warm it up ? This is a genuine question. My freezer uses electricity to run the compressor. Or does it use a resistance element to pass the cold air across using a fan or convection system? " I don't disagree with her findings. 20 hours from a 40KWh Leaf without a heat pump and heating on full is probably about right. Like I said though it has a very small battery as its a car designed for people who don't need a massive range. Also that time is going to be massively dependent on a lot of factors. How cold it is outside the car, how warm you want it inside, is the heating in a Leaf thermostatically controlled (so it switches off above the set temp) or like older cars where you simply select a heat output etc etc. Without specifying these factors then any time given is a bit meaningless. Nonetheless, as above, 20 hours of heating compares reasonably to a similar car designed for a similar range. Re the heat pump - it is exactly like your freezer with a compressor. The air may be -10 but it still contains a lot of heat energy. In theory it could be cooled to -273°C before losing all its energy. I say in theory as it becomes more difficult to do at lower temperatures. The efficiency of the system depends on the refrigerant and compressor used. When you compress a gas it releases heat, when you release the pressure it gets very cold and begins absorbing heat from its surroundings. If you select a gas with a very low boiling point (say -50°C) it will be 40°C colder than the air outside the vehicle (in your example of -10°C) imagine the heat transfer from a radiator in your house at 60°C which has the same temperature difference to the surrounding air. We tend to think of temperatures below freezing as having no heat or even negative heat due to the common temperature scales we use with negative numbers below a certain point but there is as a big a difference between a -10 blizzard and a -50 refrigerant as there is between a room at +20 and a radiator too hot to touch at +60. The limits to which a heat pump can run are set by the abilities of the compressor and the properties of the mix of gasses used. It takes electricity to run the compressor but converting electrical energy into kinetic energy in a motor and running a compressor to move heat that is already in the air is a far more efficient way of using electricity to warm a space than converting it directly from electrical to heat energy by (for example) passing it through a resistor. Mr | |||
"I'm concerned about everything being electric as what happens when there is a power cut? How on earth would I be able to get to work?
I currently drive a sports diesel and don't pay any road tax at all which I've never fully understood.
I read somewhere. That when the power usage is high, power will be taken from the electric cars and pumped back into the national grid. "Whilst this is possible, it would require a Vehicle to Grid charger. Your normal domestic charger won't do that. This is a great technology that would allow vehicles to be used to store solar power in the day and release it when it's dark, but it is most likely to be used by large fleets of vehicles rather than individuals. Cal | |||
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"So now that enough people have bought them, Gov.uk are looking to introduce a new taxing system on a pence per mile basis for electric vehicles. Knew they would find a way of getting their lost revenue back. What a kick in the teeth." It was always gonna happen, another lie, not anything to do with the evironment all about money | |||
"So now that enough people have bought them, Gov.uk are looking to introduce a new taxing system on a pence per mile basis for electric vehicles. Knew they would find a way of getting their lost revenue back. What a kick in the teeth." It’s not a kick in the teeth for those who didn’t live in a fool’s paradise lol. It’s a car it drives on the road it must pay tax not hard to work that one out. | |||
"Well that went well. Come on folks it was more aimed at the usual government U turns. Keep it cordial please. Mrs Mx" Fair enough. But I’m not spending 50 grand on a dodgem or a glorified golf cart | |||
"So now that enough people have bought them, Gov.uk are looking to introduce a new taxing system on a pence per mile basis for electric vehicles. Knew they would find a way of getting their lost revenue back. What a kick in the teeth. It’s not a kick in the teeth for those who didn’t live in a fool’s paradise lol. It’s a car it drives on the road it must pay tax not hard to work that one out. " Agreed. The only mistake was the Knutson tax break. But if you can afford an overpriced golf cart you can probably afford the tax, it’s a tiny amount in comparison | |||
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"On a separate but related note, where are the electric vehicles with proper boot space? I need a proper boot for my wheelchair. I currently drive a Renault Sport Tourer estate (diesel) and it's amazing for wheelchair stowage. My wheelchair is rigid frame (cannot be folded beyond the back folding forward). The wheels pop off the frame but assembling/disassembling it while trying not to fall flat on your face, balanced on crutches isn't worth the titting about (or injuries). Many rigid frame chair users sacrifice the front seat and manipulate their chair via a very elaborate mechanism over the steering wheel and onto the passenger seat but this requires the chair to be all the way back and you can't therefore get even a child in the back seat behind. Never mind get your husband, a 5yo and a 19yo in. Front seat stowage = not an option. In addition, I often put all the back seats down and put a sports wheelchair in too (and those fuckers do NOT fold at all. Not even a bit). Not one single electric or hybrid taxi I've travelled in has been able to stow my rigid frame day chair without having to pop the wheels off, perform jiggery-pokery with the frame position and also remove the anti tip wheel on the back (fiddly, requires removal of a small pin under the seat). I've been "down graded" on Uber as a rider because of the extra smattering of time it takes the driver (yes, help required!) to help me take it to bits and reassemble it. I am NOT giving up my boring old RELIABLE and adapted French estate car until someone can at least show me an electric car that has a boot that is the same as an estate car. Whilst I ADORE my hand clutch, I could tolerate (just about) an automatic, if I had to (boring things )
Anyone any ideas? And no, I don't have eleventy thousand pounds and no, I don't qualify for Motability either (I paid for my adaptation myself )
my dad was in a wheelchair, his folded and had quick release wheels, once the wheels and footplates were off and it was folded it fitted in any normal boot, maybe a thought , adapt the chair not the car
No. "blimey only saying it can be done | |||
"the loss of tobacco revenue is a major factor in the way that the present government is floundering in it's attempt to introduce various stealth taxes without the more wealthy in society shouldering the burden of the shortfall. the constant tinkering with vehicle excise duty is a result of this." The problem isn’t that high earners are not taxed heavily enough, it’s that extremely high earners and extremely wealthy people escape the tax net altogether. And the only polices suggested for dealing with this is to tax the high earners that are already paying tax even more heavily (mansion tax etc) rather than going after the untouchables. A Russian bloke bought a house near where I live for 142.5 million. How much tax do you suppose he pays in the uk? | |||
" my dad was in a wheelchair, his folded and had quick release wheels, once the wheels and footplates were off and it was folded it fitted in any normal boot, maybe a thought , adapt the chair not the car No. blimey only saying it can be done" I have already explained that I cannot stand to disassemble a wheelchair then lift it into a car boot. My rigid frame chair (known as an active lifestyle chair) gives me my independence. Folding frames are much less stable and robust. I will not be able to pop kerbs in a folding chair with removable footplates. I will not be able to push up hill and down dale in a folding frame chair. Folding frame chairs are generally for other people to push, rather than be truly self propelling and that is simply not an option. I work full time, I have a 5yo child etc. I need my active lifestyle chair (cost £3500). I am not compromising on my mobility equipment to buy an electric car. They can make electric cars (and associated charging infrastructure) that is suitable for disabled people to use without having to compromise on their independence and mobility. | |||
