FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Staying put cos of the children.
Staying put cos of the children.
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"I think it can also place unnecessary guilt on the children that they shouldn’t have to carry. Kids are only kids for 18 years and then you have the rest of your life with them as adults, adults who understand things. To be told that the only reason their parents stayed together was because of them it could make them feel guilty for robbing their parents of their chances to be truly happy. " Why would there be any need to tell them? | |||
"I dunno what the answer is, but I feel like people have kids these days with much less consideration if the person they are having them with. Case in point, my ex got pregnant off a 1 night stand and decided to keep it despite the guy making it clear he wanted nothing to do with the kid. That’s not exactly a smart idea in my mind. I think you should try to give a child a 2 parent household, but if that comes with the parents being miserable/hating eachother then it’s probably not smart Happy 2 parent household is ideal Unhappy 2 parent household isn’t Separated parents that are happy and involved in the kids life seem like a very good middle " Perhaps the guy should have taken precautions or declined the sex if she declined his attempts to use protection? It takes two to tango. | |||
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"I think it can also place unnecessary guilt on the children that they shouldn’t have to carry. Kids are only kids for 18 years and then you have the rest of your life with them as adults, adults who understand things. To be told that the only reason their parents stayed together was because of them it could make them feel guilty for robbing their parents of their chances to be truly happy. " Some kids don't even get 18 years of being a child. And some children understand more than some adults. | |||
"I think it can also place unnecessary guilt on the children that they shouldn’t have to carry. Kids are only kids for 18 years and then you have the rest of your life with them as adults, adults who understand things. To be told that the only reason their parents stayed together was because of them it could make them feel guilty for robbing their parents of their chances to be truly happy. Why would there be any need to tell them?" You don’t think they’d notice if they never saw their parents being affectionate with one and other? That their parents sleep in different rooms. | |||
"I dunno what the answer is, but I feel like people have kids these days with much less consideration if the person they are having them with. Case in point, my ex got pregnant off a 1 night stand and decided to keep it despite the guy making it clear he wanted nothing to do with the kid. That’s not exactly a smart idea in my mind. I think you should try to give a child a 2 parent household, but if that comes with the parents being miserable/hating eachother then it’s probably not smart Happy 2 parent household is ideal Unhappy 2 parent household isn’t Separated parents that are happy and involved in the kids life seem like a very good middle " I agree with this, a lad at work is 20 he split up with his girl and had a one night stand she is now pregnant, he asked her to get rid because they don't know a thing about eachother and having a kid wouldn't be right, she refused and is keeping the kid, if that wasn't bad they found out before ma's the chil will be downs syndrome, his head is twatted with it all. | |||
"I think it can also place unnecessary guilt on the children that they shouldn’t have to carry. Kids are only kids for 18 years and then you have the rest of your life with them as adults, adults who understand things. To be told that the only reason their parents stayed together was because of them it could make them feel guilty for robbing their parents of their chances to be truly happy. Why would there be any need to tell them? You don’t think they’d notice if they never saw their parents being affectionate with one and other? That their parents sleep in different rooms. " Ah, I didn't realise those were the conditions | |||
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"I think it can also place unnecessary guilt on the children that they shouldn’t have to carry. Kids are only kids for 18 years and then you have the rest of your life with them as adults, adults who understand things. To be told that the only reason their parents stayed together was because of them it could make them feel guilty for robbing their parents of their chances to be truly happy. Why would there be any need to tell them?" My mum didn't have any qualms about telling me  | |||
"I dunno what the answer is, but I feel like people have kids these days with much less consideration if the person they are having them with. Case in point, my ex got pregnant off a 1 night stand and decided to keep it despite the guy making it clear he wanted nothing to do with the kid. That’s not exactly a smart idea in my mind. I think you should try to give a child a 2 parent household, but if that comes with the parents being miserable/hating eachother then it’s probably not smart Happy 2 parent household is ideal Unhappy 2 parent household isn’t Separated parents that are happy and involved in the kids life seem like a very good middle Perhaps the guy should have taken precautions or declined the sex if she declined his attempts to use protection? It takes two to tango. " Perhaps you shouldn’t assume what happened? Maybe the condom broke? Maybe her birth control was ineffective? Maybe she lied about being on birth control It takes 2 to tango means they are both responsible You seem to use that saying to blame only him | |||
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"I dunno what the answer is, but I feel like people have kids these days with much less consideration if the person they are having them with. Case in point, my ex got pregnant off a 1 night stand and decided to keep it despite the guy making it clear he wanted nothing to do with the kid. That’s not exactly a smart idea in my mind. I think you should try to give a child a 2 parent household, but if that comes with the parents being miserable/hating eachother then it’s probably not smart Happy 2 parent household is ideal Unhappy 2 parent household isn’t Separated parents that are happy and involved in the kids life seem like a very good middle I agree with this, a lad at work is 20 he split up with his girl and had a one night stand she is now pregnant, he asked her to get rid because they don't know a thing about eachother and having a kid wouldn't be right, she refused and is keeping the kid, if that wasn't bad they found out before ma's the chil will be downs syndrome, his head is twatted with it all." "Get rid of it" You are referring to a foetus, not a bloody chocolate bar or something. Perhaps try putting yourself in the shoes of the woman who's body is growing the foetus and would have to undergo potentially invasive and painful procedures to have an abortion. Any man having unprotected sex in a one night stand situation should expect to be receiving news of pregnancy soon after. Use a condom or refuse sex if the woman doesn't want a condom used. Simple. | |||
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"I dunno what the answer is, but I feel like people have kids these days with much less consideration if the person they are having them with. Case in point, my ex got pregnant off a 1 night stand and decided to keep it despite the guy making it clear he wanted nothing to do with the kid. That’s not exactly a smart idea in my mind. I think you should try to give a child a 2 parent household, but if that comes with the parents being miserable/hating eachother then it’s probably not smart Happy 2 parent household is ideal Unhappy 2 parent household isn’t Separated parents that are happy and involved in the kids life seem like a very good middle Perhaps the guy should have taken precautions or declined the sex if she declined his attempts to use protection? It takes two to tango. Perhaps you shouldn’t assume what happened? Maybe the condom broke? Maybe her birth control was ineffective? Maybe she lied about being on birth control It takes 2 to tango means they are both responsible You seem to use that saying to blame only him " Whatever the situation, it is the woman who has to undergo the invasive and unpleasant processes of abortion and so it should be her decision as to whether she undergoes it. A woman saying she's on the Pill is not good enough for protection in a casual situation anyway. Irrespective of the pregnancy angle, does your friend wish to catch all and sundry STI?? | |||
"I dunno what the answer is, but I feel like people have kids these days with much less consideration if the person they are having them with. Case in point, my ex got pregnant off a 1 night stand and decided to keep it despite the guy making it clear he wanted nothing to do with the kid. That’s not exactly a smart idea in my mind. I think you should try to give a child a 2 parent household, but if that comes with the parents being miserable/hating eachother then it’s probably not smart Happy 2 parent household is ideal Unhappy 2 parent household isn’t Separated parents that are happy and involved in the kids life seem like a very good middle I agree with this, a lad at work is 20 he split up with his girl and had a one night stand she is now pregnant, he asked her to get rid because they don't know a thing about eachother and having a kid wouldn't be right, she refused and is keeping the kid, if that wasn't bad they found out before ma's the chil will be downs syndrome, his head is twatted with it all. "Get rid of it" You are referring to a foetus, not a bloody chocolate bar or something. Perhaps try putting yourself in the shoes of the woman who's body is growing the foetus and would have to undergo potentially invasive and painful procedures to have an abortion. Any man having unprotected sex in a one night stand situation should expect to be receiving news of pregnancy soon after. Use a condom or refuse sex if the woman doesn't want a condom used. Simple. " All the man here we go, It was a d*unk fuck with 2 people | |||
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"I dunno what the answer is, but I feel like people have kids these days with much less consideration if the person they are having them with. Case in point, my ex got pregnant off a 1 night stand and decided to keep it despite the guy making it clear he wanted nothing to do with the kid. That’s not exactly a smart idea in my mind. I think you should try to give a child a 2 parent household, but if that comes with the parents being miserable/hating eachother then it’s probably not smart Happy 2 parent household is ideal Unhappy 2 parent household isn’t Separated parents that are happy and involved in the kids life seem like a very good middle Perhaps the guy should have taken precautions or declined the sex if she declined his attempts to use protection? It takes two to tango. Perhaps you shouldn’t assume what happened? Maybe the condom broke? Maybe her birth control was ineffective? Maybe she lied about being on birth control It takes 2 to tango means they are both responsible You seem to use that saying to blame only him Whatever the situation, it is the woman who has to undergo the invasive and unpleasant processes of abortion and so it should be her decision as to whether she undergoes it. A woman saying she's on the Pill is not good enough for protection in a casual situation anyway. Irrespective of the pregnancy angle, does your friend wish to catch all and sundry STI??" How do you know the condom didn’t split? It works both ways. If you don’t want to deal with a pregnancy, keep your legs closed | |||
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"I dunno what the answer is, but I feel like people have kids these days with much less consideration if the person they are having them with. Case in point, my ex got pregnant off a 1 night stand and decided to keep it despite the guy making it clear he wanted nothing to do with the kid. That’s not exactly a smart idea in my mind. I think you should try to give a child a 2 parent household, but if that comes with the parents being miserable/hating eachother then it’s probably not smart Happy 2 parent household is ideal Unhappy 2 parent household isn’t Separated parents that are happy and involved in the kids life seem like a very good middle Perhaps the guy should have taken precautions or declined the sex if she declined his attempts to use protection? It takes two to tango. Perhaps you shouldn’t assume what happened? Maybe the condom broke? Maybe her birth control was ineffective? Maybe she lied about being on birth control It takes 2 to tango means they are both responsible You seem to use that saying to blame only him Whatever the situation, it is the woman who has to undergo the invasive and unpleasant processes of abortion and so it should be her decision as to whether she undergoes it. A woman saying she's on the Pill is not good enough for protection in a casual situation anyway. Irrespective of the pregnancy angle, does your friend wish to catch all and sundry STI??" I find it interesting that 99% of women of child bearing age wouldn't believe a man who said he was unable to father children for whatever reason but many men are happy to believe a woman who says she isn't able to conceive. Could I wonder, that he anything to do with who will bear the biggest consequence of pregnancy? | |||
"I dunno what the answer is, but I feel like people have kids these days with much less consideration if the person they are having them with. Case in point, my ex got pregnant off a 1 night stand and decided to keep it despite the guy making it clear he wanted nothing to do with the kid. That’s not exactly a smart idea in my mind. I think you should try to give a child a 2 parent household, but if that comes with the parents being miserable/hating eachother then it’s probably not smart Happy 2 parent household is ideal Unhappy 2 parent household isn’t Separated parents that are happy and involved in the kids life seem like a very good middle Perhaps the guy should have taken precautions or declined the sex if she declined his attempts to use protection? It takes two to tango. Perhaps you shouldn’t assume what happened? Maybe the condom broke? Maybe her birth control was ineffective? Maybe she lied about being on birth control It takes 2 to tango means they are both responsible You seem to use that saying to blame only him Whatever the situation, it is the woman who has to undergo the invasive and unpleasant processes of abortion and so it should be her decision as to whether she undergoes it. A woman saying she's on the Pill is not good enough for protection in a casual situation anyway. Irrespective of the pregnancy angle, does your friend wish to catch all and sundry STI?? How do you know the condom didn’t split? It works both ways. If you don’t want to deal with a pregnancy, keep your legs closed " If the woman is happy to continue the pregnancy, then presumably she's okay to deal with pregnancy?? | |||
"I dunno what the answer is, but I feel like people have kids these days with much less consideration if the person they are having them with. Case in point, my ex got pregnant off a 1 night stand and decided to keep it despite the guy making it clear he wanted nothing to do with the kid. That’s not exactly a smart idea in my mind. I think you should try to give a child a 2 parent household, but if that comes with the parents being miserable/hating eachother then it’s probably not smart Happy 2 parent household is ideal Unhappy 2 parent household isn’t Separated parents that are happy and involved in the kids life seem like a very good middle I agree with this, a lad at work is 20 he split up with his girl and had a one night stand she is now pregnant, he asked her to get rid because they don't know a thing about eachother and having a kid wouldn't be right, she refused and is keeping the kid, if that wasn't bad they found out before ma's the chil will be downs syndrome, his head is twatted with it all. "Get rid of it" You are referring to a foetus, not a bloody chocolate bar or something. Perhaps try putting yourself in the shoes of the woman who's body is growing the foetus and would have to undergo potentially invasive and painful procedures to have an abortion. Any man having unprotected sex in a one night stand situation should expect to be receiving news of pregnancy soon after. Use a condom or refuse sex if the woman doesn't want a condom used. Simple. All the man here we go, It was a d*unk fuck with 2 people " Perhaps the moral of the story is don't d*unk fuck if you don't like the potential consequences? And I stand by my view that your reference to "get rid of it" is abhorrent. At least be respectful about the potential life that has been created through no fault of its own? | |||
"Against. I left with my 3 small children. Moved 450 miles and started life all over again with nothing If I can do that anyone can. No one needs to stay in a miserable relationship and blame their fears of change on their children. I'm well aware it's an unpopular opinion and that everyone's situation is different. " I think most people here would agree your very brave I certainly would | |||
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"To go back to the OP, I'm very glad my parents didn't stay together. However, the ensuing years of grief that I endured as the eldest child were horrible. My mother remarrying twice more and moving us all over the place was horrible. Her obstructing us from seeing Dad and telling us lies about him, horrible. I wish my Grandparents had adopted us and that we'd had a normal upbringing among people who put us children at the forefront, not their own selfishness. And now I'm crying "Sorry | |||
"I had to leave my kids mum and I hoped it would be easier, but still years down the line her bitterness towards me grows continuously, she has more hatred for me now and tries to control my life worse than when I was with her.. I've explained to my kids (they're still youngish) that what happened with us isn't normal and a husband and wife should always stay together, but every chance she gets I'm attacked verbally in front of them and without reason, very very frustrating" Damn sorry to hear that! I think this issue raises other problems for men because the courts definitely favour women when children are involved. Some men probably stay in because they are afraid of financial ruin or losing the ability to see their kids. Sometimes just staying is easier | |||
"I dunno what the answer is, but I feel like people have kids these days with much less consideration if the person they are having them with. Case in point, my ex got pregnant off a 1 night stand and decided to keep it despite the guy making it clear he wanted nothing to do with the kid. That’s not exactly a smart idea in my mind. I think you should try to give a child a 2 parent household, but if that comes with the parents being miserable/hating eachother then it’s probably not smart Happy 2 parent household is ideal Unhappy 2 parent household isn’t Separated parents that are happy and involved in the kids life seem like a very good middle I agree with this, a lad at work is 20 he split up with his girl and had a one night stand she is now pregnant, he asked her to get rid because they don't know a thing about eachother and having a kid wouldn't be right, she refused and is keeping the kid, if that wasn't bad they found out before ma's the chil will be downs syndrome, his head is twatted with it all. "Get rid of it" You are referring to a foetus, not a bloody chocolate bar or something. Perhaps try putting yourself in the shoes of the woman who's body is growing the foetus and would have to undergo potentially invasive and painful procedures to have an abortion. Any man having unprotected sex in a one night stand situation should expect to be receiving news of pregnancy soon after. Use a condom or refuse sex if the woman doesn't want a condom used. Simple. All the man here we go, It was a d*unk fuck with 2 people Perhaps the moral of the story is don't d*unk fuck if you don't like the potential consequences? And I stand by my view that your reference to "get rid of it" is abhorrent. At least be respectful about the potential life that has been created through no fault of its own? " I just think it would be the best thing to do with not knowing eachother, I think this is why people are so fucked up these days, stability at home is a massive thing | |||
"I dunno what the answer is, but I feel like people have kids these days with much less consideration if the person they are having them with. Case in point, my ex got pregnant off a 1 night stand and decided to keep it despite the guy making it clear he wanted nothing to do with the kid. That’s not exactly a smart idea in my mind. I think you should try to give a child a 2 parent household, but if that comes with the parents being miserable/hating eachother then it’s probably not smart Happy 2 parent household is ideal Unhappy 2 parent household isn’t Separated parents that are happy and involved in the kids life seem like a very good middle Perhaps the guy should have taken precautions or declined the sex if she declined his attempts to use protection? It takes two to tango. Perhaps you shouldn’t assume what happened? Maybe the condom broke? Maybe her birth control was ineffective? Maybe she lied about being on birth control It takes 2 to tango means they are both responsible You seem to use that saying to blame only him Whatever the situation, it is the woman who has to undergo the invasive and unpleasant processes of abortion and so it should be her decision as to whether she undergoes it. A woman saying she's on the Pill is not good enough for protection in a casual situation anyway. Irrespective of the pregnancy angle, does your friend wish to catch all and sundry STI?? How do you know the condom didn’t split? It works both ways. If you don’t want to deal with a pregnancy, keep your legs closed " I agree, condoms aren't a guarantee of anything. However, didn't you say she had the kid? I don't know how a woman can deal with a pregnancy any more than having a child  . | |||
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"I dunno what the answer is, but I feel like people have kids these days with much less consideration if the person they are having them with. Case in point, my ex got pregnant off a 1 night stand and decided to keep it despite the guy making it clear he wanted nothing to do with the kid. That’s not exactly a smart idea in my mind. I think you should try to give a child a 2 parent household, but if that comes with the parents being miserable/hating eachother then it’s probably not smart Happy 2 parent household is ideal Unhappy 2 parent household isn’t Separated parents that are happy and involved in the kids life seem like a very good middle Perhaps the guy should have taken precautions or declined the sex if she declined his attempts to use protection? It takes two to tango. Perhaps you shouldn’t assume what happened? Maybe the condom broke? Maybe her birth control was ineffective? Maybe she lied about being on birth control It takes 2 to tango means they are both responsible You seem to use that saying to blame only him Whatever the situation, it is the woman who has to undergo the invasive and unpleasant processes of abortion and so it should be her decision as to whether she undergoes it. A woman saying she's on the Pill is not good enough for protection in a casual situation anyway. Irrespective of the pregnancy angle, does your friend wish to catch all and sundry STI?? How do you know the condom didn’t split? It works both ways. If you don’t want to deal with a pregnancy, keep your legs closed I agree, condoms aren't a guarantee of anything. However, didn't you say she had the kid? I don't know how a woman can deal with a pregnancy any more than having a child . "She did decide to keep it despite the guy saying from the start that he didn’t want to be involved I feel it’s a little selfish on her half to force a guy to be a dad, force a child not to have a dad, other reasons too obviously But I also see the side that some people think every pregnancy is a life not to be wasted, so maybe she felt she had to have it. I dunno Makes me want to get the snip thinking about it | |||
"I split with my ex years ago after years of unhappiness. He persuaded me to stay together for the kids but now barely sees 3 of his kids. I don't think as a single mother I am doing a brilliant job. We have a lot less money, I can't afford things we used to have as a family. Can't afford holidays. So I have a lot of guilt that I've made their lives worse. But I just couldn't live like that anymore. I was so miserable. We barely spoke. I slept in a separate room. That can't have been great for our kids either. So no, it's not easy nor straightforward but they are my number 1 priority and always have been. " I think you are a good mum. And when the kids look back on their younger years, they will not remember the holidays or not, they will remember you, and how hard you tried to keep the family afloat. The little things, spending time with them is really precious x | |||
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"I think you've done a good job of acknowledging the downsides to staying in a relationship that isn't right for one/both parents however I think you have dismissed the harm that can be caused by a split a little too glibly. Yes, children adapt, they're great at coping and learning new ways to live but that doesn't mean they're unaffected by the changes. You can teach a child to be selfish in their relationships (my happiness comes before that of my child/partner) you can teach a child that their needs are not important etc. They can also end up with attachment issues, abandonment issues all kinds of problems. This is not saying that you can't split up without damaging your kids but that the idea that they will adapt to a split but not be able to adapt to parents in a failing relationship seems a little one sided. As others have said the answer will depend totally on the situation, the parents, the child etc. It's quite possible where a split will be the best possible course of action for one child but massively damaging for their sibling. It's not a good/bad answer. Mr" This is all so true. I have a horrific relationship with my ex and only email contact. This has a big effect on my kids. I see families where the parents are still friends and get along - makes such a difference to the kids. I wish I could give them that. | |||
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"I dunno what the answer is, but I feel like people have kids these days with much less consideration if the person they are having them with. Case in point, my ex got pregnant off a 1 night stand and decided to keep it despite the guy making it clear he wanted nothing to do with the kid. That’s not exactly a smart idea in my mind. I think you should try to give a child a 2 parent household, but if that comes with the parents being miserable/hating eachother then it’s probably not smart Happy 2 parent household is ideal Unhappy 2 parent household isn’t Separated parents that are happy and involved in the kids life seem like a very good middle Perhaps the guy should have taken precautions or declined the sex if she declined his attempts to use protection? It takes two to tango. Perhaps you shouldn’t assume what happened? Maybe the condom broke? Maybe her birth control was ineffective? Maybe she lied about being on birth control It takes 2 to tango means they are both responsible You seem to use that saying to blame only him Whatever the situation, it is the woman who has to undergo the invasive and unpleasant processes of abortion and so it should be her decision as to whether she undergoes it. A woman saying she's on the Pill is not good enough for protection in a casual situation anyway. Irrespective of the pregnancy angle, does your friend wish to catch all and sundry STI?? How do you know the condom didn’t split? It works both ways. If you don’t want to deal with a pregnancy, keep your legs closed I agree, condoms aren't a guarantee of anything. However, didn't you say she had the kid? I don't know how a woman can deal with a pregnancy any more than having a child .
She did decide to keep it despite the guy saying from the start that he didn’t want to be involved
I feel it’s a little selfish on her half to force a guy to be a dad, force a child not to have a dad, other reasons too obviously
But I also see the side that some people think every pregnancy is a life not to be wasted, so maybe she felt she had to have it. I dunno
Makes me want to get the snip thinking about it "So she dealt with it and he didn't. I think it's selfish to expect a woman to abort a pregnancy against her will. I sympathise with the guy but he can choose not to be involved. She can either choose to have a baby alone or potentially be traumatised by undergoing a procedure she doesn't want for his benefit and then have to mourn a loss. I feel that either way she has the raw deal. And I say all this as a woman who personally would choose a termination. | |||
"Damn sorry to hear that! I think this issue raises other problems for men because the courts definitely favour women when children are involved. Some men probably stay in because they are afraid of financial ruin or losing the ability to see their kids. Sometimes just staying is easier " I agree, I tried staying for a number of years before deciding enough is enough I thought about every possible scenario I could think of.. But unless the kids are in danger the court is rigged to support the mother.. It's very sad, I think when you do try and stay to make it work it only gives you solid validation that it's just not possible with some relationships | |||
"I think you've done a good job of acknowledging the downsides to staying in a relationship that isn't right for one/both parents however I think you have dismissed the harm that can be caused by a split a little too glibly. Yes, children adapt, they're great at coping and learning new ways to live but that doesn't mean they're unaffected by the changes. You can teach a child to be selfish in their relationships (my happiness comes before that of my child/partner) you can teach a child that their needs are not important etc. They can also end up with attachment issues, abandonment issues all kinds of problems. This is not saying that you can't split up without damaging your kids but that the idea that they will adapt to a split but not be able to adapt to parents in a failing relationship seems a little one sided. As others have said the answer will depend totally on the situation, the parents, the child etc. It's quite possible where a split will be the best possible course of action for one child but massively damaging for their sibling. It's not a good/bad answer. Mr This is all so true. I have a horrific relationship with my ex and only email contact. This has a big effect on my kids. I see families where the parents are still friends and get along - makes such a difference to the kids. I wish I could give them that. "I've sacrificed my own sanity over the years to maintain a cordial relationship with my son's dad. I have tolerated so much and ignored so much to keep the veneer up. I still have to bite my tongue on occasion. My son might be 19 now but I still don't wish to cloud his judgement, which he can make for himself. | |||
"I think you've done a good job of acknowledging the downsides to staying in a relationship that isn't right for one/both parents however I think you have dismissed the harm that can be caused by a split a little too glibly. Yes, children adapt, they're great at coping and learning new ways to live but that doesn't mean they're unaffected by the changes. You can teach a child to be selfish in their relationships (my happiness comes before that of my child/partner) you can teach a child that their needs are not important etc. They can also end up with attachment issues, abandonment issues all kinds of problems. This is not saying that you can't split up without damaging your kids but that the idea that they will adapt to a split but not be able to adapt to parents in a failing relationship seems a little one sided. As others have said the answer will depend totally on the situation, the parents, the child etc. It's quite possible where a split will be the best possible course of action for one child but massively damaging for their sibling. It's not a good/bad answer. Mr This is all so true. I have a horrific relationship with my ex and only email contact. This has a big effect on my kids. I see families where the parents are still friends and get along - makes such a difference to the kids. I wish I could give them that.
I've sacrificed my own sanity over the years to maintain a cordial relationship with my son's dad. I have tolerated so much and ignored so much to keep the veneer up. I still have to bite my tongue on occasion. My son might be 19 now but I still don't wish to cloud his judgement, which he can make for himself. "And he will eventually. | |||
"I split with my ex years ago after years of unhappiness. He persuaded me to stay together for the kids but now barely sees 3 of his kids. I don't think as a single mother I am doing a brilliant job. We have a lot less money, I can't afford things we used to have as a family. Can't afford holidays. So I have a lot of guilt that I've made their lives worse. But I just couldn't live like that anymore. I was so miserable. We barely spoke. I slept in a separate room. That can't have been great for our kids either. So no, it's not easy nor straightforward but they are my number 1 priority and always have been. I think you are a good mum. And when the kids look back on their younger years, they will not remember the holidays or not, they will remember you, and how hard you tried to keep the family afloat. The little things, spending time with them is really precious x" Thank you. But not convinced. All I can do is keep trying. | |||
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"I dunno what the answer is, but I feel like people have kids these days with much less consideration if the person they are having them with. Case in point, my ex got pregnant off a 1 night stand and decided to keep it despite the guy making it clear he wanted nothing to do with the kid. That’s not exactly a smart idea in my mind. I think you should try to give a child a 2 parent household, but if that comes with the parents being miserable/hating eachother then it’s probably not smart Happy 2 parent household is ideal Unhappy 2 parent household isn’t Separated parents that are happy and involved in the kids life seem like a very good middle Perhaps the guy should have taken precautions or declined the sex if she declined his attempts to use protection? It takes two to tango. Perhaps you shouldn’t assume what happened? Maybe the condom broke? Maybe her birth control was ineffective? Maybe she lied about being on birth control It takes 2 to tango means they are both responsible You seem to use that saying to blame only him Whatever the situation, it is the woman who has to undergo the invasive and unpleasant processes of abortion and so it should be her decision as to whether she undergoes it. A woman saying she's on the Pill is not good enough for protection in a casual situation anyway. Irrespective of the pregnancy angle, does your friend wish to catch all and sundry STI?? How do you know the condom didn’t split? It works both ways. If you don’t want to deal with a pregnancy, keep your legs closed I agree, condoms aren't a guarantee of anything. However, didn't you say she had the kid? I don't know how a woman can deal with a pregnancy any more than having a child .
She did decide to keep it despite the guy saying from the start that he didn’t want to be involved
I feel it’s a little selfish on her half to force a guy to be a dad, force a child not to have a dad, other reasons too obviously
But I also see the side that some people think every pregnancy is a life not to be wasted, so maybe she felt she had to have it. I dunno
Makes me want to get the snip thinking about it
So she dealt with it and he didn't. I think it's selfish to expect a woman to abort a pregnancy against her will. I sympathise with the guy but he can choose not to be involved. She can either choose to have a baby alone or potentially be traumatised by undergoing a procedure she doesn't want for his benefit and then have to mourn a loss. I feel that either way she has the raw deal. And I say all this as a woman who personally would choose a termination. "I have a lot of respect for her just saying ok to him saying he wasn’t gonna be involved. He didn’t wanna be a dad. She wants to be a mum. And she dealt with that. I dunno how hard the courts will fuck him financially, but I’m almost certain he doesn’t just walk about from it. She got what she wanted, and he’ll get what he wants, at a price | |||
"I think you've done a good job of acknowledging the downsides to staying in a relationship that isn't right for one/both parents however I think you have dismissed the harm that can be caused by a split a little too glibly. Yes, children adapt, they're great at coping and learning new ways to live but that doesn't mean they're unaffected by the changes. You can teach a child to be selfish in their relationships (my happiness comes before that of my child/partner) you can teach a child that their needs are not important etc. They can also end up with attachment issues, abandonment issues all kinds of problems. This is not saying that you can't split up without damaging your kids but that the idea that they will adapt to a split but not be able to adapt to parents in a failing relationship seems a little one sided. As others have said the answer will depend totally on the situation, the parents, the child etc. It's quite possible where a split will be the best possible course of action for one child but massively damaging for their sibling. It's not a good/bad answer. Mr This is all so true. I have a horrific relationship with my ex and only email contact. This has a big effect on my kids. I see families where the parents are still friends and get along - makes such a difference to the kids. I wish I could give them that.
I've sacrificed my own sanity over the years to maintain a cordial relationship with my son's dad. I have tolerated so much and ignored so much to keep the veneer up. I still have to bite my tongue on occasion. My son might be 19 now but I still don't wish to cloud his judgement, which he can make for himself. "My ex was emotionally abusive and it was harming me (and the kids by extension). I tried for two years after the split. We are amicable and polite and never see each other. I am not co-parenting with him anymore though. I don't bitch about him in front of my kids, they've made up their own minds about him from his own behaviour and keep him at arms length. | |||
"Damn sorry to hear that! I think this issue raises other problems for men because the courts definitely favour women when children are involved. Some men probably stay in because they are afraid of financial ruin or losing the ability to see their kids. Sometimes just staying is easier I agree, I tried staying for a number of years before deciding enough is enough I thought about every possible scenario I could think of.. But unless the kids are in danger the court is rigged to support the mother.. It's very sad, I think when you do try and stay to make it work it only gives you solid validation that it's just not possible with some relationships" Most separations or divorces don't go to the courts if the couple can agree. And mediation is a prerequisite before for court (unless there is abuse). | |||
"If the relationship isn't working I think it's does more harm if stay together if kids are involved or not. You have to do what you think is right for your own mental health. " I agree with this gent. However, in my situation, I was reluctant and scared to end the marriage when perhaps it should have been the better time when kids were small - financially I knew we couldn't have survived. But, in the end we pay a price, including any kids because the damage has already been done. | |||
"I split with my ex years ago after years of unhappiness. He persuaded me to stay together for the kids but now barely sees 3 of his kids. I don't think as a single mother I am doing a brilliant job. We have a lot less money, I can't afford things we used to have as a family. Can't afford holidays. So I have a lot of guilt that I've made their lives worse. But I just couldn't live like that anymore. I was so miserable. We barely spoke. I slept in a separate room. That can't have been great for our kids either. So no, it's not easy nor straightforward but they are my number 1 priority and always have been. " Your life echoes mine in ways.... know this as I have it drummed into regularly... We have not made their lives worse, we did what was the best thing for them, they won't care about holidays and things only that they have a mum who loves them unconditionally and has made every sacrifice to give them the best and most loving upbringing they deserve, and a mum who is now happy and no longer sad xx | |||
"Each individual situation is unique, what’s right/wrong for one will be the opposite for another. You can only make these decisions on an individual basis, there are no rules. "
This. | |||
"I dunno what the answer is, but I feel like people have kids these days with much less consideration if the person they are having them with. Case in point, my ex got pregnant off a 1 night stand and decided to keep it despite the guy making it clear he wanted nothing to do with the kid. That’s not exactly a smart idea in my mind. I think you should try to give a child a 2 parent household, but if that comes with the parents being miserable/hating eachother then it’s probably not smart Happy 2 parent household is ideal Unhappy 2 parent household isn’t Separated parents that are happy and involved in the kids life seem like a very good middle Perhaps the guy should have taken precautions or declined the sex if she declined his attempts to use protection? It takes two to tango. Perhaps you shouldn’t assume what happened? Maybe the condom broke? Maybe her birth control was ineffective? Maybe she lied about being on birth control It takes 2 to tango means they are both responsible You seem to use that saying to blame only him Whatever the situation, it is the woman who has to undergo the invasive and unpleasant processes of abortion and so it should be her decision as to whether she undergoes it. A woman saying she's on the Pill is not good enough for protection in a casual situation anyway. Irrespective of the pregnancy angle, does your friend wish to catch all and sundry STI?? How do you know the condom didn’t split? It works both ways. If you don’t want to deal with a pregnancy, keep your legs closed I agree, condoms aren't a guarantee of anything. However, didn't you say she had the kid? I don't know how a woman can deal with a pregnancy any more than having a child .
She did decide to keep it despite the guy saying from the start that he didn’t want to be involved
I feel it’s a little selfish on her half to force a guy to be a dad, force a child not to have a dad, other reasons too obviously
But I also see the side that some people think every pregnancy is a life not to be wasted, so maybe she felt she had to have it. I dunno
Makes me want to get the snip thinking about it
So she dealt with it and he didn't. I think it's selfish to expect a woman to abort a pregnancy against her will. I sympathise with the guy but he can choose not to be involved. She can either choose to have a baby alone or potentially be traumatised by undergoing a procedure she doesn't want for his benefit and then have to mourn a loss. I feel that either way she has the raw deal. And I say all this as a woman who personally would choose a termination.
I have a lot of respect for her just saying ok to him saying he wasn’t gonna be involved. He didn’t wanna be a dad. She wants to be a mum. And she dealt with that.
I dunno how hard the courts will fuck him financially, but I’m almost certain he doesn’t just walk about from it.
She got what she wanted, and he’ll get what he wants, at a price "Why would a court get involved? Courts don't deal with child maintenance and the system is now based around the assumption that parents will make their own, private maintenance arrangements. The CSA has almost ceased to exist (and it was useless when it existed). If parents cannot make private arrangements and one or both parents request the intervention of the CSA, then they are charged for using it nowadays. There's no automatic legal demand made on non resident parents. The resident parent would have to instigate something and it would certainly not go near a court. Family courts deal with disputes around contact with parents and courts might get involved in disputes around separation of assets, but if they have never lived together, never married and she has accepted he will not be involved, then no legal or maintenance related issues should arise, right? | |||
"Against, a) they know, b) you’re just putting off the inevitable c) you’re slowly killing yourselves" this, tried it and it doesnt work | |||
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"I dunno what the answer is, but I feel like people have kids these days with much less consideration if the person they are having them with. Case in point, my ex got pregnant off a 1 night stand and decided to keep it despite the guy making it clear he wanted nothing to do with the kid. That’s not exactly a smart idea in my mind. I think you should try to give a child a 2 parent household, but if that comes with the parents being miserable/hating eachother then it’s probably not smart Happy 2 parent household is ideal Unhappy 2 parent household isn’t Separated parents that are happy and involved in the kids life seem like a very good middle Perhaps the guy should have taken precautions or declined the sex if she declined his attempts to use protection? It takes two to tango. Perhaps you shouldn’t assume what happened? Maybe the condom broke? Maybe her birth control was ineffective? Maybe she lied about being on birth control It takes 2 to tango means they are both responsible You seem to use that saying to blame only him Whatever the situation, it is the woman who has to undergo the invasive and unpleasant processes of abortion and so it should be her decision as to whether she undergoes it. A woman saying she's on the Pill is not good enough for protection in a casual situation anyway. Irrespective of the pregnancy angle, does your friend wish to catch all and sundry STI?? How do you know the condom didn’t split? It works both ways. If you don’t want to deal with a pregnancy, keep your legs closed I agree, condoms aren't a guarantee of anything. However, didn't you say she had the kid? I don't know how a woman can deal with a pregnancy any more than having a child .
She did decide to keep it despite the guy saying from the start that he didn’t want to be involved
I feel it’s a little selfish on her half to force a guy to be a dad, force a child not to have a dad, other reasons too obviously
But I also see the side that some people think every pregnancy is a life not to be wasted, so maybe she felt she had to have it. I dunno
Makes me want to get the snip thinking about it
So she dealt with it and he didn't. I think it's selfish to expect a woman to abort a pregnancy against her will. I sympathise with the guy but he can choose not to be involved. She can either choose to have a baby alone or potentially be traumatised by undergoing a procedure she doesn't want for his benefit and then have to mourn a loss. I feel that either way she has the raw deal. And I say all this as a woman who personally would choose a termination.
I have a lot of respect for her just saying ok to him saying he wasn’t gonna be involved. He didn’t wanna be a dad. She wants to be a mum. And she dealt with that.
I dunno how hard the courts will fuck him financially, but I’m almost certain he doesn’t just walk about from it.
She got what she wanted, and he’ll get what he wants, at a price
Why would a court get involved? Courts don't deal with child maintenance and the system is now based around the assumption that parents will make their own, private maintenance arrangements. The CSA has almost ceased to exist (and it was useless when it existed). If parents cannot make private arrangements and one or both parents request the intervention of the CSA, then they are charged for using it nowadays.
There's no automatic legal demand made on non resident parents. The resident parent would have to instigate something and it would certainly not go near a court.
Family courts deal with disputes around contact with parents and courts might get involved in disputes around separation of assets, but if they have never lived together, never married and she has accepted he will not be involved, then no legal or maintenance related issues should arise, right? "I don’t think she’s just gonna accept not getting money she can get if she wants. If she does, all the more respect to her. But the balls in her court, not his | |||
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" I have a lot of respect for her just saying ok to him saying he wasn’t gonna be involved. He didn’t wanna be a dad. She wants to be a mum. And she dealt with that. I dunno how hard the courts will fuck him financially, but I’m almost certain he doesn’t just walk about from it. She got what she wanted, and he’ll get what he wants, at a price Why would a court get involved? Courts don't deal with child maintenance and the system is now based around the assumption that parents will make their own, private maintenance arrangements. The CSA has almost ceased to exist (and it was useless when it existed). If parents cannot make private arrangements and one or both parents request the intervention of the CSA, then they are charged for using it nowadays. There's no automatic legal demand made on non resident parents. The resident parent would have to instigate something and it would certainly not go near a court. Family courts deal with disputes around contact with parents and courts might get involved in disputes around separation of assets, but if they have never lived together, never married and she has accepted he will not be involved, then no legal or maintenance related issues should arise, right? I don’t think she’s just gonna accept not getting money she can get if she wants. If she does, all the more respect to her. But the balls in her court, not his " That would still have naff all to do with a court. They simply do not get involved with maintenance. Either they make a private arrangement or they both have to pay for the CSA to enforce an arrangement but that would only happen a) if one of them requests maintenance and b) they have to try the private arrangement first. There's no reference to the gender of the parent, it's a case of resident and non resident parent. If the CSA does get involved (at a cost) then there's a set formula that calculates maintenance due to the non resident parent. The non resident parent cannot make random demands etc. | |||
" I have a lot of respect for her just saying ok to him saying he wasn’t gonna be involved. He didn’t wanna be a dad. She wants to be a mum. And she dealt with that. I dunno how hard the courts will fuck him financially, but I’m almost certain he doesn’t just walk about from it. She got what she wanted, and he’ll get what he wants, at a price Why would a court get involved? Courts don't deal with child maintenance and the system is now based around the assumption that parents will make their own, private maintenance arrangements. The CSA has almost ceased to exist (and it was useless when it existed). If parents cannot make private arrangements and one or both parents request the intervention of the CSA, then they are charged for using it nowadays. There's no automatic legal demand made on non resident parents. The resident parent would have to instigate something and it would certainly not go near a court. Family courts deal with disputes around contact with parents and courts might get involved in disputes around separation of assets, but if they have never lived together, never married and she has accepted he will not be involved, then no legal or maintenance related issues should arise, right? I don’t think she’s just gonna accept not getting money she can get if she wants. If she does, all the more respect to her. But the balls in her court, not his That would still have naff all to do with a court. They simply do not get involved with maintenance. Either they make a private arrangement or they both have to pay for the CSA to enforce an arrangement but that would only happen a) if one of them requests maintenance and b) they have to try the private arrangement first. There's no reference to the gender of the parent, it's a case of resident and non resident parent. If the CSA does get involved (at a cost) then there's a set formula that calculates maintenance due to the non resident parent. The non resident parent cannot make random demands etc. " So as I said, he is gonna have to pay for it? Thanks | |||
"Damn sorry to hear that! I think this issue raises other problems for men because the courts definitely favour women when children are involved. Some men probably stay in because they are afraid of financial ruin or losing the ability to see their kids. Sometimes just staying is easier I agree, I tried staying for a number of years before deciding enough is enough I thought about every possible scenario I could think of.. But unless the kids are in danger the court is rigged to support the mother.. It's very sad, I think when you do try and stay to make it work it only gives you solid validation that it's just not possible with some relationships" Try telling that to all the dead children that have been killed at the hands of their own fathers. Oh yeah you can’t cos they’re dead. What about the women who risk prison by fleeing with their children whilst going through the court process because they’re so terrified about the father being granted access to the children. Exactly how familiar are you with the court system these days? You could walk into a court room literally hammering someone and you’d still get some sort of access. I personally witness a guy beating a woman up in the car park of the courts, all caught on cctv yet he was still granted access to the children, was through a contact centre and supervised but only that lasts so long and if the person shows up on time and gets their little box ticked that apparently shows that they won’t display violence again. Caught a do not favour the mother they favour the child. Judges are often so out of the loop they don’t even make their own decisions they rely on reports by social services and cafcass and if they’re charmed by the father and say they believe contact should be awarded them contact is awarded regardless. So no. It’s absolute BULL SHIT that a guy wouldn’t have access to his child. Think of a normal case, just a husband and wife bf or gf that used to be together. Father has been involved with the child up until the split. Father applies to the court, some admin, mediation which they can choose not to attend. There’s no grounds at all for that father not to have access to their child and it will be awarded. | |||
" I have a lot of respect for her just saying ok to him saying he wasn’t gonna be involved. He didn’t wanna be a dad. She wants to be a mum. And she dealt with that. I dunno how hard the courts will fuck him financially, but I’m almost certain he doesn’t just walk about from it. She got what she wanted, and he’ll get what he wants, at a price Why would a court get involved? Courts don't deal with child maintenance and the system is now based around the assumption that parents will make their own, private maintenance arrangements. The CSA has almost ceased to exist (and it was useless when it existed). If parents cannot make private arrangements and one or both parents request the intervention of the CSA, then they are charged for using it nowadays. There's no automatic legal demand made on non resident parents. The resident parent would have to instigate something and it would certainly not go near a court. Family courts deal with disputes around contact with parents and courts might get involved in disputes around separation of assets, but if they have never lived together, never married and she has accepted he will not be involved, then no legal or maintenance related issues should arise, right? I don’t think she’s just gonna accept not getting money she can get if she wants. If she does, all the more respect to her. But the balls in her court, not his That would still have naff all to do with a court. They simply do not get involved with maintenance. Either they make a private arrangement or they both have to pay for the CSA to enforce an arrangement but that would only happen a) if one of them requests maintenance and b) they have to try the private arrangement first. There's no reference to the gender of the parent, it's a case of resident and non resident parent. If the CSA does get involved (at a cost) then there's a set formula that calculates maintenance due to the non resident parent. The non resident parent cannot make random demands etc. So as I said, he is gonna have to pay for it? Thanks "No, both parents are charged for using the CSA if they cannot make a private arrangement. Perhaps go and read about it rather than making up a load of cobblers? It's very difficult to get the CSA to do anything nowadays, the system is geared up for private arrangements. If the CSA is used, BOTH parents are charged a fee and the maintenance calculated follows a set formula that cannot be manipulated by either party. | |||
" I have a lot of respect for her just saying ok to him saying he wasn’t gonna be involved. He didn’t wanna be a dad. She wants to be a mum. And she dealt with that. I dunno how hard the courts will fuck him financially, but I’m almost certain he doesn’t just walk about from it. She got what she wanted, and he’ll get what he wants, at a price Why would a court get involved? Courts don't deal with child maintenance and the system is now based around the assumption that parents will make their own, private maintenance arrangements. The CSA has almost ceased to exist (and it was useless when it existed). If parents cannot make private arrangements and one or both parents request the intervention of the CSA, then they are charged for using it nowadays. There's no automatic legal demand made on non resident parents. The resident parent would have to instigate something and it would certainly not go near a court. Family courts deal with disputes around contact with parents and courts might get involved in disputes around separation of assets, but if they have never lived together, never married and she has accepted he will not be involved, then no legal or maintenance related issues should arise, right? I don’t think she’s just gonna accept not getting money she can get if she wants. If she does, all the more respect to her. But the balls in her court, not his That would still have naff all to do with a court. They simply do not get involved with maintenance. Either they make a private arrangement or they both have to pay for the CSA to enforce an arrangement but that would only happen a) if one of them requests maintenance and b) they have to try the private arrangement first. There's no reference to the gender of the parent, it's a case of resident and non resident parent. If the CSA does get involved (at a cost) then there's a set formula that calculates maintenance due to the non resident parent. The non resident parent cannot make random demands etc. So as I said, he is gonna have to pay for it? Thanks
No, both parents are charged for using the CSA if they cannot make a private arrangement. Perhaps go and read about it rather than making up a load of cobblers?
It's very difficult to get the CSA to do anything nowadays, the system is geared up for private arrangements. If the CSA is used, BOTH parents are charged a fee and the maintenance calculated follows a set formula that cannot be manipulated by either party. "So they are both charged a fee and he pays the rest So he pays? Thanks | |||
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" I have a lot of respect for her just saying ok to him saying he wasn’t gonna be involved. He didn’t wanna be a dad. She wants to be a mum. And she dealt with that. I dunno how hard the courts will fuck him financially, but I’m almost certain he doesn’t just walk about from it. She got what she wanted, and he’ll get what he wants, at a price Why would a court get involved? Courts don't deal with child maintenance and the system is now based around the assumption that parents will make their own, private maintenance arrangements. The CSA has almost ceased to exist (and it was useless when it existed). If parents cannot make private arrangements and one or both parents request the intervention of the CSA, then they are charged for using it nowadays. There's no automatic legal demand made on non resident parents. The resident parent would have to instigate something and it would certainly not go near a court. Family courts deal with disputes around contact with parents and courts might get involved in disputes around separation of assets, but if they have never lived together, never married and she has accepted he will not be involved, then no legal or maintenance related issues should arise, right? I don’t think she’s just gonna accept not getting money she can get if she wants. If she does, all the more respect to her. But the balls in her court, not his That would still have naff all to do with a court. They simply do not get involved with maintenance. Either they make a private arrangement or they both have to pay for the CSA to enforce an arrangement but that would only happen a) if one of them requests maintenance and b) they have to try the private arrangement first. There's no reference to the gender of the parent, it's a case of resident and non resident parent. If the CSA does get involved (at a cost) then there's a set formula that calculates maintenance due to the non resident parent. The non resident parent cannot make random demands etc. So as I said, he is gonna have to pay for it? Thanks
No, both parents are charged for using the CSA if they cannot make a private arrangement. Perhaps go and read about it rather than making up a load of cobblers?
It's very difficult to get the CSA to do anything nowadays, the system is geared up for private arrangements. If the CSA is used, BOTH parents are charged a fee and the maintenance calculated follows a set formula that cannot be manipulated by either party.
So they are both charged a fee and he pays the rest
So he pays?
Thanks "https://www.gov.uk/manage-child-maintenance-case | |||
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" https://www.gov.uk/manage-child-maintenance-case" | |||
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" https://www.gov.uk/manage-child-maintenance-case "Note that you are expected to try making a private arrangement first and throughout, you are encouraged to revert to a private arrangement, even if you do end up using the Service. It's not geared for or against a specific gender. It deals in terms of resident and non resident parents. The genders could be either. | |||
" https://www.gov.uk/manage-child-maintenance-case
Note that you are expected to try making a private arrangement first and throughout, you are encouraged to revert to a private arrangement, even if you do end up using the Service.
It's not geared for or against a specific gender. It deals in terms of resident and non resident parents. The genders could be either. "I never says it was I said She gets what she wants (being a mum) He gets what he wants (not being a dad) And he will pay for it (as priced by the things you sent) | |||
" I have a lot of respect for her just saying ok to him saying he wasn’t gonna be involved. He didn’t wanna be a dad. She wants to be a mum. And she dealt with that. I dunno how hard the courts will fuck him financially, but I’m almost certain he doesn’t just walk about from it. She got what she wanted, and he’ll get what he wants, at a price Why would a court get involved? Courts don't deal with child maintenance and the system is now based around the assumption that parents will make their own, private maintenance arrangements. The CSA has almost ceased to exist (and it was useless when it existed). If parents cannot make private arrangements and one or both parents request the intervention of the CSA, then they are charged for using it nowadays. There's no automatic legal demand made on non resident parents. The resident parent would have to instigate something and it would certainly not go near a court. Family courts deal with disputes around contact with parents and courts might get involved in disputes around separation of assets, but if they have never lived together, never married and she has accepted he will not be involved, then no legal or maintenance related issues should arise, right? I don’t think she’s just gonna accept not getting money she can get if she wants. If she does, all the more respect to her. But the balls in her court, not his That would still have naff all to do with a court. They simply do not get involved with maintenance. Either they make a private arrangement or they both have to pay for the CSA to enforce an arrangement but that would only happen a) if one of them requests maintenance and b) they have to try the private arrangement first. There's no reference to the gender of the parent, it's a case of resident and non resident parent. If the CSA does get involved (at a cost) then there's a set formula that calculates maintenance due to the non resident parent. The non resident parent cannot make random demands etc. So as I said, he is gonna have to pay for it? Thanks
No, both parents are charged for using the CSA if they cannot make a private arrangement. Perhaps go and read about it rather than making up a load of cobblers?
It's very difficult to get the CSA to do anything nowadays, the system is geared up for private arrangements. If the CSA is used, BOTH parents are charged a fee and the maintenance calculated follows a set formula that cannot be manipulated by either party.
So they are both charged a fee and he pays the rest
So he pays?
Thanks "That's not quite accurate. The CSA is now the Child Maintenance Service. And there are two ways for them to be involved. The first is if he won't co-operate at all and they can take the money directly from his bank account. Both parents lose out on money with that method as they pay the admin charges. The second is the CSM calculate the maintenance and advise the father, who pays it directly to the mother. All changes are dealt with by the CSM (eg if his income goes up or down). This is the method I use and it doesn't cost anything extra. | |||
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" https://www.gov.uk/manage-child-maintenance-case
Note that you are expected to try making a private arrangement first and throughout, you are encouraged to revert to a private arrangement, even if you do end up using the Service.
It's not geared for or against a specific gender. It deals in terms of resident and non resident parents. The genders could be either.
I never says it was
I said
She gets what she wants (being a mum)
He gets what he wants (not being a dad)
And he will pay for it (as priced by the things you sent) "Only if one of them goes to the maintenance service! You seem to think it's automatic that payment demands come with the birth certificate! You also seem convinced that courts get involved and it's all very anti-men. The Maintenance system never once mentions the words mother or father, nor the gender of the parents. | |||
| |||
" https://www.gov.uk/manage-child-maintenance-case
Note that you are expected to try making a private arrangement first and throughout, you are encouraged to revert to a private arrangement, even if you do end up using the Service.
It's not geared for or against a specific gender. It deals in terms of resident and non resident parents. The genders could be either.
I never says it was
I said
She gets what she wants (being a mum)
He gets what he wants (not being a dad)
And he will pay for it (as priced by the things you sent)
Only if one of them goes to the maintenance service! You seem to think it's automatic that payment demands come with the birth certificate! You also seem convinced that courts get involved and it's all very anti-men. The Maintenance system never once mentions the words mother or father, nor the gender of the parents. "So as I said, he will pay? Again, thanks | |||
" https://www.gov.uk/manage-child-maintenance-case
Note that you are expected to try making a private arrangement first and throughout, you are encouraged to revert to a private arrangement, even if you do end up using the Service.
It's not geared for or against a specific gender. It deals in terms of resident and non resident parents. The genders could be either.
I never says it was
I said
She gets what she wants (being a mum)
He gets what he wants (not being a dad)
And he will pay for it (as priced by the things you sent)
Only if one of them goes to the maintenance service! You seem to think it's automatic that payment demands come with the birth certificate! You also seem convinced that courts get involved and it's all very anti-men. The Maintenance system never once mentions the words mother or father, nor the gender of the parents.
So as I said, he will pay?
Again, thanks "Only If The Non resident Parent Asks Him To Pay Maintenance And they will have to try to make a private arrangement first | |||
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" https://www.gov.uk/manage-child-maintenance-case
Note that you are expected to try making a private arrangement first and throughout, you are encouraged to revert to a private arrangement, even if you do end up using the Service.
It's not geared for or against a specific gender. It deals in terms of resident and non resident parents. The genders could be either.
I never says it was
I said
She gets what she wants (being a mum)
He gets what he wants (not being a dad)
And he will pay for it (as priced by the things you sent)
Only if one of them goes to the maintenance service! You seem to think it's automatic that payment demands come with the birth certificate! You also seem convinced that courts get involved and it's all very anti-men. The Maintenance system never once mentions the words mother or father, nor the gender of the parents.
So as I said, he will pay?
Again, thanks
Only
If
The
Non resident
Parent
Asks
Him
To
Pay
Maintenance
And they will have to try to make a private arrangement first "I’m glad we agree. That took longer than it needed  | |||
| |||
" https://www.gov.uk/manage-child-maintenance-case
Note that you are expected to try making a private arrangement first and throughout, you are encouraged to revert to a private arrangement, even if you do end up using the Service.
It's not geared for or against a specific gender. It deals in terms of resident and non resident parents. The genders could be either.
I never says it was
I said
She gets what she wants (being a mum)
He gets what he wants (not being a dad)
And he will pay for it (as priced by the things you sent)
Only if one of them goes to the maintenance service! You seem to think it's automatic that payment demands come with the birth certificate! You also seem convinced that courts get involved and it's all very anti-men. The Maintenance system never once mentions the words mother or father, nor the gender of the parents.
So as I said, he will pay?
Again, thanks
Only
If
The
Non resident
Parent
Asks
Him
To
Pay
Maintenance
And they will have to try to make a private arrangement first "Also he won’t be named on the birth certificate so he has the choice to deny in which case he’d have to pay for a paternity test or refuse in which case they’d assume he was the father. Also she’d need some details about him, name address, NI number. I don’t think I’ve ever asked someone’s NI number before shagging then. | |||
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" https://www.gov.uk/manage-child-maintenance-case
Note that you are expected to try making a private arrangement first and throughout, you are encouraged to revert to a private arrangement, even if you do end up using the Service.
It's not geared for or against a specific gender. It deals in terms of resident and non resident parents. The genders could be either.
I never says it was
I said
She gets what she wants (being a mum)
He gets what he wants (not being a dad)
And he will pay for it (as priced by the things you sent)
Only if one of them goes to the maintenance service! You seem to think it's automatic that payment demands come with the birth certificate! You also seem convinced that courts get involved and it's all very anti-men. The Maintenance system never once mentions the words mother or father, nor the gender of the parents.
So as I said, he will pay?
Again, thanks
Only
If
The
Non resident
Parent
Asks
Him
To
Pay
Maintenance
And they will have to try to make a private arrangement first
Also he won’t be named on the birth certificate so he has the choice to deny in which case he’d have to pay for a paternity test or refuse in which case they’d assume he was the father.
Also she’d need some details about him, name address, NI number.
I don’t think I’ve ever asked someone’s NI number before shagging then. "That’s coz your easy I wouldn’t touch a vag unless I had an NI number, a named and addressed bill and 6 months pay slips Level Up | |||
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"It's popped up about the courts favouring the mother. M took his ex to court after failed mediation. And to be honest he got what he wanted from the courts. He wanted joint responsibility to their child. Access so that his daughter is with us 6 days out of 14. Think men are scared of the system. But we planned and prepared well before the court date and it was stressful but fine. It's been a game changer and has stopped a manipulative ex stopping him have contact with his daughter, as punishment for finding a new partner. " I think it’s reasonable. I can’t say for myself, but a female friend of mine that’s very well educated and very savvy about all things law has explicitly told me the courts favour women. There’s statistics that back this up to, and not just when it comes to cases involving children. So I can’t say from my own knowledge, but from someone much older, wiser and better educated than me, that’s what I believe. I’ll trust her opinion over “well it didn’t do it to me” | |||
"I see nobody jumped on my idea of selling the kids and buying a yacht, strange " rather than sell them, make them clean chimnys, then you have an on going income | |||
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"It's popped up about the courts favouring the mother. M took his ex to court after failed mediation. And to be honest he got what he wanted from the courts. He wanted joint responsibility to their child. Access so that his daughter is with us 6 days out of 14. Think men are scared of the system. But we planned and prepared well before the court date and it was stressful but fine. It's been a game changer and has stopped a manipulative ex stopping him have contact with his daughter, as punishment for finding a new partner. I think it’s reasonable. I can’t say for myself, but a female friend of mine that’s very well educated and very savvy about all things law has explicitly told me the courts favour women. There’s statistics that back this up to, and not just when it comes to cases involving children. So I can’t say from my own knowledge, but from someone much older, wiser and better educated than me, that’s what I believe. I’ll trust her opinion over “well it didn’t do it to me” " That's fair enough I wouldn't believe someone on fab either. But most my mates are solicitors or barristers. Their overriding opinion was stability for the child and that any established routine was maintained. If this meant that the father did most of the child care because they were a stay at home dad that he'd have most of the custody. It just so happens that in the majority of cases it's the other way around. So the court doesn't favour one over the other in reality was their opinions. | |||
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"For or against? Given the fact that children are constantly absorbing everything is it a good idea to stay in the household simply because of the children? I personally think that all you’re teaching them is that if there’s kids involved you stay no matter what. Fine if there’s no abuse involved but what if they grow and have children if their own and then they get a partner that’s abusive, they’ve been ‘taught’ that you stay together no matter what. Also kids learn how to be in a relationship from watching their first relationships, usually mum and dad. If they see their parents who may not necessarily argue but no affection or love shown towards each other, is that not teaching them that that is how adult relationships are? I’ve only briefly covered this but interested in everyone’s thoughts. " My parents divorced when I was really young, it wasn’t particularly painful because I was too young to know any different (was 4) , I’m really glad tho that my parents managed to stay friends till the end, And it taught me that sometimes in relationships, things can evolve but you can still love each other even if not together anymore. I would have hated to live in a household full of resentment for the sake of me and my siblings. Kids pick up on those things and they know So I’m all for parents who want to go separate ways while trying to still be there for each other (in a mature way) for the sake of the kids. Also, I got my wicked ways with my dad and could get away with murder unlike with my mum. So , it definitely had its perks? x | |||
"I see nobody jumped on my idea of selling the kids and buying a yacht, strange rather than sell them, make them clean chimnys, then you have an on going income" It’s bold but I like where your head is at! My only concern is there’s still outgoings for general keeping them alive stuff | |||
" https://www.gov.uk/manage-child-maintenance-case
Note that you are expected to try making a private arrangement first and throughout, you are encouraged to revert to a private arrangement, even if you do end up using the Service.
It's not geared for or against a specific gender. It deals in terms of resident and non resident parents. The genders could be either.
I never says it was
I said
She gets what she wants (being a mum)
He gets what he wants (not being a dad)
And he will pay for it (as priced by the things you sent)
Only if one of them goes to the maintenance service! You seem to think it's automatic that payment demands come with the birth certificate! You also seem convinced that courts get involved and it's all very anti-men. The Maintenance system never once mentions the words mother or father, nor the gender of the parents.
So as I said, he will pay?
Again, thanks
Only
If
The
Non resident
Parent
Asks
Him
To
Pay
Maintenance
And they will have to try to make a private arrangement first
Also he won’t be named on the birth certificate so he has the choice to deny in which case he’d have to pay for a paternity test or refuse in which case they’d assume he was the father.
Also she’d need some details about him, name address, NI number.
I don’t think I’ve ever asked someone’s NI number before shagging then. "He will be named if his name is provided. It's irrelevant for parental responsibility nowadays anyway. Even if not named on the birth certificate and if parents never married or lived together, the biological father automatically has parental responsibility now. It's different to when my son was born, when even though his Dad IS on the birth certificate, because we never lived together and never married, he did not actually have parental responsibility. | |||
"I dunno what the answer is, but I feel like people have kids these days with much less consideration if the person they are having them with. Case in point, my ex got pregnant off a 1 night stand and decided to keep it despite the guy making it clear he wanted nothing to do with the kid. That’s not exactly a smart idea in my mind. I think you should try to give a child a 2 parent household, but if that comes with the parents being miserable/hating eachother then it’s probably not smart Happy 2 parent household is ideal Unhappy 2 parent household isn’t Separated parents that are happy and involved in the kids life seem like a very good middle I agree with this, a lad at work is 20 he split up with his girl and had a one night stand she is now pregnant, he asked her to get rid because they don't know a thing about eachother and having a kid wouldn't be right, she refused and is keeping the kid, if that wasn't bad they found out before ma's the chil will be downs syndrome, his head is twatted with it all. "Get rid of it" You are referring to a foetus, not a bloody chocolate bar or something. Perhaps try putting yourself in the shoes of the woman who's body is growing the foetus and would have to undergo potentially invasive and painful procedures to have an abortion. Any man having unprotected sex in a one night stand situation should expect to be receiving news of pregnancy soon after. Use a condom or refuse sex if the woman doesn't want a condom used. Simple. " This. Plus the years after having to deal with the memory, possible PTSD, trauma... | |||
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" https://www.gov.uk/manage-child-maintenance-case
Note that you are expected to try making a private arrangement first and throughout, you are encouraged to revert to a private arrangement, even if you do end up using the Service.
It's not geared for or against a specific gender. It deals in terms of resident and non resident parents. The genders could be either. "I think you may be missing his point. The father who didn't want the child will have to pay maintenance either through an agreed settlement or through the CSA if she wants to push for it - hence his repeated reply- so he has to pay. There is no option for him to say I didn't want the child, I won't pay for it. Now of course there are all kinds of arguments to be had around safe sex, paying for your mistakes, not having sex outside marriage, that it will be the woman who has to go through with the pregnancy or suffer the distress of an abortion etc etc depending on your views but the point remains in a situation where two people have sex and one gets pregnant there is only one that is allowed a choice in whether that pregnancy goes ahead. In a situation where the woman wants to have a baby but the man doesn't she gets what she wants, he just pays the bill for 18 years. In a situation where the woman doesn't want the baby but the man does, she can terminate and get what she wants and he loses his child. Basically a man either has to want the same as the woman or he will lose out, either way she gets what she wants. I just want to add, the above isn't a complaint, a means of expressing a moral judgement or an opinion on this situation, just trying to explain what the guy is saying. Mr | |||
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"I split with my ex years ago after years of unhappiness. He persuaded me to stay together for the kids but now barely sees 3 of his kids. I don't think as a single mother I am doing a brilliant job. We have a lot less money, I can't afford things we used to have as a family. Can't afford holidays. So I have a lot of guilt that I've made their lives worse. But I just couldn't live like that anymore. I was so miserable. We barely spoke. I slept in a separate room. That can't have been great for our kids either. So no, it's not easy nor straightforward but they are my number 1 priority and always have been. Your life echoes mine in ways.... know this as I have it drummed into regularly... We have not made their lives worse, we did what was the best thing for them, they won't care about holidays and things only that they have a mum who loves them unconditionally and has made every sacrifice to give them the best and most loving upbringing they deserve, and a mum who is now happy and no longer sad xx" I think we have quite a few things in common TG. I try and get past the guilt and just focus on the now and what I can do. I had a conversation with my teen on the back of this thread and he thought that parents having separate rooms was normal until I split with his dad. That's no way to view relationships. | |||
" He will be named if his name is provided. It's irrelevant for parental responsibility nowadays anyway. Even if not named on the birth certificate and if parents never married or lived together, the biological father automatically has parental responsibility now. It's different to when my son was born, when even though his Dad IS on the birth certificate, because we never lived together and never married, he did not actually have parental responsibility. " Can you source that please? I work in a Nursery and we ask about parental responsibility when we enrol, using the Gov.uk guidelines as reference which states; Who has parental responsibility? A mother automatically has parental responsibility for her child from birth. A father usually has parental responsibility if he’s either: married to the child’s mother listed on the birth certificate (after a certain date, depending on which part of the UK the child was born in) You can apply for parental responsibility if you do not automatically have it. Births registered in England and Wales If the parents of a child are married when the child is born, or if they’ve jointly adopted a child, both have parental responsibility. They both keep parental responsibility if they later divorce. Unmarried parents An unmarried father can get parental responsibility for his child in 1 of 3 ways: jointly registering the birth of the child with the mother (from 1 December 2003) getting a parental responsibility agreement with the mother getting a parental responsibility order from a court | |||
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"Kids also pick up on what their parents actions are .. they learn everything from you.. their mentor. " My eldest daughter at aged 15 told me that I was an young person trapped in an old body and trapped in a marriage with no fun, affection or laughter and I'd be beffee off without her dad (she took the brunt of his mental and threatening coercion). That was BEFORE I decided to end marriage and before her father physically threw her out of her home for an off the cuff comment, aged 16. My youngest, who I thought I'd "lost" to her dad because he convinced her I wasn't a good enough mum yada yada, outrightly asked me if her dad had stopped being affectionate towards me because of her? That whole episode almost broke me. My son, has no respect for his dad, no father/son relationship input. Now all 3 of my kids say it was a good thing I ended the marriage as we are all better off without him, I'm much happier being who I am, and he is now with someone else (him being still bitter). It was exceptionally hard being a single parent, working full time and part time to make ends meet and ensure they were cared for and encouraged at every step of their lives. Zero input from their dad and zero hostility from me about their dad. I'm proud of my kids despite some of the damage we've all endured. Anyone in a similar position, just remember it will get easier, in time and then you'll never look back, just look forward. | |||
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" He will be named if his name is provided. It's irrelevant for parental responsibility nowadays anyway. Even if not named on the birth certificate and if parents never married or lived together, the biological father automatically has parental responsibility now. It's different to when my son was born, when even though his Dad IS on the birth certificate, because we never lived together and never married, he did not actually have parental responsibility. Can you source that please? I work in a Nursery and we ask about parental responsibility when we enrol, using the Gov.uk guidelines as reference which states; Who has parental responsibility? A mother automatically has parental responsibility for her child from birth. A father usually has parental responsibility if he’s either: married to the child’s mother listed on the birth certificate (after a certain date, depending on which part of the UK the child was born in) You can apply for parental responsibility if you do not automatically have it. Births registered in England and Wales If the parents of a child are married when the child is born, or if they’ve jointly adopted a child, both have parental responsibility. They both keep parental responsibility if they later divorce. Unmarried parents An unmarried father can get parental responsibility for his child in 1 of 3 ways: jointly registering the birth of the child with the mother (from 1 December 2003) getting a parental responsibility agreement with the mother getting a parental responsibility order from a court " Apologies, I am wrong about father's automatically having PR if not on the birth certificate. Prior to 2003, an unmarried father who was on the birth certificate did not have PR but that was changed. Dads who are unmarried to the mother do need to named on the birth certificate to acquire PR. That said, most applications for PR to courts from unmarried dads are successful. Mr KC acquired PR for our son, despite not being his biological father and without adopting him. It was pretty straightforward to do. For anyone wishing to meddle, his biological father had written to us when our son was 6, saying he would have no more contact with his son and promptly disappeared off the radar completely. It was not my choice for him to do that. | |||
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"Kids also pick up on what their parents actions are .. they learn everything from you.. their mentor. My eldest daughter at aged 15 told me that I was an young person trapped in an old body and trapped in a marriage with no fun, affection or laughter and I'd be beffee off without her dad (she took the brunt of his mental and threatening coercion). That was BEFORE I decided to end marriage and before her father physically threw her out of her home for an off the cuff comment, aged 16. My youngest, who I thought I'd "lost" to her dad because he convinced her I wasn't a good enough mum yada yada, outrightly asked me if her dad had stopped being affectionate towards me because of her? That whole episode almost broke me. My son, has no respect for his dad, no father/son relationship input. Now all 3 of my kids say it was a good thing I ended the marriage as we are all better off without him, I'm much happier being who I am, and he is now with someone else (him being still bitter). It was exceptionally hard being a single parent, working full time and part time to make ends meet and ensure they were cared for and encouraged at every step of their lives. Zero input from their dad and zero hostility from me about their dad. I'm proud of my kids despite some of the damage we've all endured. Anyone in a similar position, just remember it will get easier, in time and then you'll never look back, just look forward. "I truly hope so. Glad it worked out for you and your kids.  | |||
"I dunno what the answer is, but I feel like people have kids these days with much less consideration if the person they are having them with. Case in point, my ex got pregnant off a 1 night stand and decided to keep it despite the guy making it clear he wanted nothing to do with the kid. That’s not exactly a smart idea in my mind. I think you should try to give a child a 2 parent household, but if that comes with the parents being miserable/hating eachother then it’s probably not smart Happy 2 parent household is ideal Unhappy 2 parent household isn’t Separated parents that are happy and involved in the kids life seem like a very good middle " Definitely this. Happened to my brother & his wife. They got married for all the wrong reasons & her being pregnant was the main one. They had 2 kids in the end, both lovely, but mum & dad fought like cat & dog, all were unhappy yes even the kids as they heard all of it. I remember babysitting one night after they split & the youngest one asked me if “daddy had left because she was bad” told her absolutely not, but did tell bro & wife that they needed to be honest with the kids. | |||
