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Billionaires are parasites. Discuss
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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With a nod to Cockosaurus as it was his idea.
I think billionaires are parasites. I don't think most of us can conceive exactly how much a billion actually is. I think capitalism was fine once, but now it's gone too far and is actively killing people. Jeff bezos owns 3 times what it is calculated would cost to remove all the carbon from the atmosphere. Just one guy?!
During the industrial revolution the equivalent men of the day believed in the bible so built schools, hospitals, entire towns, villages and parks for their underpaid workforce who made them rich.
Trickle down economics we were told during the Reagan Thatcher era... my arse. I hate to quote Peter Mandelson because he's bloody awful, but he said "we have no problem with people becoming incredibly wealthy as long as they pay their taxes". The current lot dont, they swan about in spaceships.
Do you disagree?
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I have no issue with wealth if acquired honestly. But we do need to alter our society, so that we have a much fairer system, as things have been skewed very disproportionately away from most people being able to prosper from their labour, to a reasonable extent, compared to the very wealthy. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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To an extent, billionaires have become a problem. Sure they get shit done with all that money. Sometimes for good reasons, sometimes for bad reasons, and both end up having the opposite effect in some form or other. I do understand that its necessary to have an obscene mass of wealth to open new ventures and drive innovation, but a lot of what they have is purely spent on personal expenses.
Dont get me wrong rich ppl have a right to indulge themselves with some luxury with the wealth theyve accumulated, they wouldnt have all that money if they didnt do something right. But there is a limit before theyre just being complete asshats with their money with the things they buy, when the money they spend could make huge improvements in society and gain them the favour of "the common ppl".
But really many dont give a shit about the majority and would sell us out in a heartbeat for personal gain. The only opinions most of them care about is those of their peers. |
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"I have no issue with wealth if acquired honestly. But we do need to alter our society, so that we have a much fairer system, as things have been skewed very disproportionately away from most people being able to prosper from their labour, to a reasonable extent, compared to the very wealthy. "
I think that it is hard to "earn" billions without exploiting others... usually the ones who actually do the work.
Cal |
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"With a nod to Cockosaurus as it was his idea.
I think billionaires are parasites. I don't think most of us can conceive exactly how much a billion actually is. I think capitalism was fine once, but now it's gone too far and is actively killing people. Jeff bezos owns 3 times what it is calculated would cost to remove all the carbon from the atmosphere. Just one guy?!
During the industrial revolution the equivalent men of the day believed in the bible so built schools, hospitals, entire towns, villages and parks for their underpaid workforce who made them rich.
Trickle down economics we were told during the Reagan Thatcher era... my arse. I hate to quote Peter Mandelson because he's bloody awful, but he said "we have no problem with people becoming incredibly wealthy as long as they pay their taxes". The current lot dont, they swan about in spaceships.
Do you disagree?
"
Well you can't say all wealthy people of olden times where generous.
Kublai khan's wealth was reported to be so vast that if you related it in today's money he would make bezos look like a middle class family by comparison.
The Pharos used to build themselves structures of pure gold as they believed themselves living god's whilst their people lived in servitude and poverty.
Being greedy and rich is not a modern disease!! |
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mostly these people are not 'rich' not 'wealthy' but 'expensive'.
how many people have to live in poor conditions, how much govt subsidy, how many stores closed, pensions ripped off, how much tax avoided, environmental damage done to keep one guy in sufficient yachts ?
the 'super-rich' are just very expensive people. |
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You could also argue those people working for the billionaire are also parasites as they are feeding off the billionaire, earning their wages and getting paid by them.
There are plenty of failed businesses. Those who have succeeded, and earned that kind of money, fair fucks to them. |
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By *arry247Couple
over a year ago
Wakefield |
"With a nod to Cockosaurus as it was his idea.
I think billionaires are parasites. I don't think most of us can conceive exactly how much a billion actually is. I think capitalism was fine once, but now it's gone too far and is actively killing people. Jeff bezos owns 3 times what it is calculated would cost to remove all the carbon from the atmosphere. Just one guy?!"
What would the point be in that? I take it you do not know how much depends on CO2 to live
"During the industrial revolution the equivalent men of the day believed in the bible so built schools, hospitals, entire towns, villages and parks for their underpaid workforce who made them rich.
Trickle down economics we were told during the Reagan Thatcher era... my arse. I hate to quote Peter Mandelson because he's bloody awful, but he said "we have no problem with people becoming incredibly wealthy as long as they pay their taxes". The current lot dont, they swan about in spaceships.
Do you disagree?
"
Yes totally |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"With a nod to Cockosaurus as it was his idea.
I think billionaires are parasites. I don't think most of us can conceive exactly how much a billion actually is. I think capitalism was fine once, but now it's gone too far and is actively killing people. Jeff bezos owns 3 times what it is calculated would cost to remove all the carbon from the atmosphere. Just one guy?!
During the industrial revolution the equivalent men of the day believed in the bible so built schools, hospitals, entire towns, villages and parks for their underpaid workforce who made them rich.
Trickle down economics we were told during the Reagan Thatcher era... my arse. I hate to quote Peter Mandelson because he's bloody awful, but he said "we have no problem with people becoming incredibly wealthy as long as they pay their taxes". The current lot dont, they swan about in spaceships.
Do you disagree?
Well you can't say all wealthy people of olden times where generous.
Kublai khan's wealth was reported to be so vast that if you related it in today's money he would make bezos look like a middle class family by comparison.
The Pharos used to build themselves structures of pure gold as they believed themselves living god's whilst their people lived in servitude and poverty.
Being greedy and rich is not a modern disease!!"
You're totally right, although recent archaeology would indicate the pharaohs workers lived quite comfortably. Their diet was rich. I suspect it was only SOME industrialists and SOME pharaohs that had empathy for the people who created their wealth. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"With a nod to Cockosaurus as it was his idea.
I think billionaires are parasites. I don't think most of us can conceive exactly how much a billion actually is. I think capitalism was fine once, but now it's gone too far and is actively killing people. Jeff bezos owns 3 times what it is calculated would cost to remove all the carbon from the atmosphere. Just one guy?!
What would the point be in that? I take it you do not know how much depends on CO2 to live
During the industrial revolution the equivalent men of the day believed in the bible so built schools, hospitals, entire towns, villages and parks for their underpaid workforce who made them rich.
Trickle down economics we were told during the Reagan Thatcher era... my arse. I hate to quote Peter Mandelson because he's bloody awful, but he said "we have no problem with people becoming incredibly wealthy as long as they pay their taxes". The current lot dont, they swan about in spaceships.
Do you disagree?
Yes totally"
Why? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"You could also argue those people working for the billionaire are also parasites as they are feeding off the billionaire, earning their wages and getting paid by them.
There are plenty of failed businesses. Those who have succeeded, and earned that kind of money, fair fucks to them. "
You could argue that people whonwork for billionaires are parasites - WTF?
People who work ...actually work are parasites ...just because they work for a billionaire .....jeez  |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Money does not buy you happiness but it's better to be rich and unhappy than poor and unhappy .."
We agree again Tom. I have no problem with rich people. I've met a few. Old money. Very polite decent people. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Re a million and a billion - you ate right, many don't really appreciate the difference. If you had £5000 a day for 6 months you'd be a millionaire. You'd need to keep getting that same amount of money for 547 years before you got your first billion.
Mr |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I don’t have a problem with wealthy people ….. providing they respect and reward those who earned it for them and they support their local communities…. at the very least "
My point exactly |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Doesnt seem much point having it if you dont spend it. Its just hoarding, but hoarding numbers in a bank book and hoarding is never healthy. The concept of money baffles me really. I would suggest they aren't entirely parasites (although you dont make a billion off your own hard work) but just slightly sick/unwell individuals. A lot of useful innovation can be done with very little it just requires people who truly believe and know how to do things without it all being about money and ego. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Re a million and a billion - you ate right, many don't really appreciate the difference. If you had £5000 a day for 6 months you'd be a millionaire. You'd need to keep getting that same amount of money for 547 years before you got your first billion.
Mr"
Spot on. It's quite hard to comprehend that level of wealth. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Doesnt seem much point having it if you dont spend it. Its just hoarding, but hoarding numbers in a bank book and hoarding is never healthy. The concept of money baffles me really. I would suggest they aren't entirely parasites (although you dont make a billion off your own hard work) but just slightly sick/unwell individuals. A lot of useful innovation can be done with very little it just requires people who truly believe and know how to do things without it all being about money and ego. "
Yep. Psychopaths/ sociopaths can be useful members of society. Without them we wouldn't land on the moon or cure disease or break the sound barrier. I'd rather not let them run amok and hoard all of the world's resources. |
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"I don’t have a problem with wealthy people ….. providing they respect and reward those who earned it for them and they support their local communities…. at the very least "
Yep. This is my thoughts too.
Some bad mouth the rich, simply for being rich. In my mind that reeks of jealousy more than anything.
At what point do these people start to dislike people for their money?
When they have Billions? Millions? Thousands? Hundreds?
Dislike people for how they make their money, how the mistreat people and for greed, ut not purely for having money.
Many rich people are very generous with their time and available money. Often much more so than those who moan about them. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I don’t have a problem with wealthy people ….. providing they respect and reward those who earned it for them and they support their local communities…. at the very least
Yep. This is my thoughts too.
Some bad mouth the rich, simply for being rich. In my mind that reeks of jealousy more than anything.
At what point do these people start to dislike people for their money?
When they have Billions? Millions? Thousands? Hundreds?
Dislike people for how they make their money, how the mistreat people and for greed, ut not purely for having money.
Many rich people are very generous with their time and available money. Often much more so than those who moan about them. "
I'll do the Pepsi challenge with what percentage of my wealth I am generous with and what your average Billionaire's percentage is all day long. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Most are only sky high on paper
Yes they have a couple off hundred mill in the bank
But can go from being the richest person in the world to close to flat broke in a second
Most off they Welth is tie to compey stocks
That stock tanks so dose they bank |
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I probably count as 'new money'. I did ok as a council house boy from Ponty something.. am I a billionaire.. ? Not close. Am I a parasite? I think not..
Do I reward good staff? Hell yes..
Am I happy? Sometimes ...
Am I unhappy? Sometimes..
Those who judge a man by his bank account are the parasites...
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By *aiseiMan
over a year ago
Birmingham |
Yes, I do disagree.
The wealth that is so often chastised isn’t sat in their bank accounts; it’s mostly in stock of the companies they founded. If the company does well, that stock value grows and their wealth does with it. Likewise, if their stock bombs, so does that wealth.
Unless that stock is sold, it’s just an intangible number that can’t be used for anything as-is. It’s also incredibly unlikely that any of the major billionaires specifically set out with that level of wealth as a target; anyone who has built a successful company should tell you that trying to do so to make yourself rich is the best and quickest way to make it fail.
Billionaires also tend to own big companies, which tend to employ a lot of people. So that’s a lot of opportunity driven by what was initially one person’s vision in most cases.
The exploitation argument isn’t universally applicable; some large corps do have shitty work cultures, but the figurehead is all to easy to blame for what is most likely to be a middle management issue. Billionaires sat in the ‘rarified air’ aren’t checking Bill Smith’s rota for October. They are the easiest to call out and in fairness should probably respond, but it’s more than likely something they are not aware with ‘bad news’ filtered away by layers of management beneath.
Tax it a difficult one, but the difference between potential and actual wealth needs to be remembered. As does the difference between personal tax avoidance and personal tax evasion. Everyone has the right to the former, no-one has the right to the latter. Where I do often object is corporate tax; companies that make billions and pay sod all business tax by rattling it around various group entities. As a company owner, that boils my piss a little given it truly is an exploitation of scale.
However, that is more likely to be driven by the CFO and bean counters at the dirty detail level, than by a CEO…..although probably aware of it. |
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"Yes, I do disagree.
The wealth that is so often chastised isn’t sat in their bank accounts; it’s mostly in stock of the companies they founded. If the company does well, that stock value grows and their wealth does with it. Likewise, if their stock bombs, so does that wealth.
Unless that stock is sold, it’s just an intangible number that can’t be used for anything as-is. It’s also incredibly unlikely that any of the major billionaires specifically set out with that level of wealth as a target; anyone who has built a successful company should tell you that trying to do so to make yourself rich is the best and quickest way to make it fail.
Billionaires also tend to own big companies, which tend to employ a lot of people. So that’s a lot of opportunity driven by what was initially one person’s vision in most cases.
The exploitation argument isn’t universally applicable; some large corps do have shitty work cultures, but the figurehead is all to easy to blame for what is most likely to be a middle management issue. Billionaires sat in the ‘rarified air’ aren’t checking Bill Smith’s rota for October. They are the easiest to call out and in fairness should probably respond, but it’s more than likely something they are not aware with ‘bad news’ filtered away by layers of management beneath.
Tax it a difficult one, but the difference between potential and actual wealth needs to be remembered. As does the difference between personal tax avoidance and personal tax evasion. Everyone has the right to the former, no-one has the right to the latter. Where I do often object is corporate tax; companies that make billions and pay sod all business tax by rattling it around various group entities. As a company owner, that boils my piss a little given it truly is an exploitation of scale.
However, that is more likely to be driven by the CFO and bean counters at the dirty detail level, than by a CEO…..although probably aware of it. "
This too  |
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"I don’t have a problem with wealthy people ….. providing they respect and reward those who earned it for them and they support their local communities…. at the very least
Yep. This is my thoughts too.
Some bad mouth the rich, simply for being rich. In my mind that reeks of jealousy more than anything.
At what point do these people start to dislike people for their money?
When they have Billions? Millions? Thousands? Hundreds?
Dislike people for how they make their money, how the mistreat people and for greed, ut not purely for having money.
Many rich people are very generous with their time and available money. Often much more so than those who moan about them. "
PLUS genuinely wealthy people don’t brag about it ….. unlike those who ‘think’ they are wealthy and make sure everyone knows about it |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I don’t have a problem with wealthy people ….. providing they respect and reward those who earned it for them and they support their local communities…. at the very least
Yep. This is my thoughts too.
Some bad mouth the rich, simply for being rich. In my mind that reeks of jealousy more than anything.
At what point do these people start to dislike people for their money?
When they have Billions? Millions? Thousands? Hundreds?
Dislike people for how they make their money, how the mistreat people and for greed, ut not purely for having money.
Many rich people are very generous with their time and available money. Often much more so than those who moan about them.
PLUS genuinely wealthy people don’t brag about it ….. unlike those who ‘think’ they are wealthy and make sure everyone knows about it "
You are correct!! |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Yes, I do disagree.
The wealth that is so often chastised isn’t sat in their bank accounts; it’s mostly in stock of the companies they founded. If the company does well, that stock value grows and their wealth does with it. Likewise, if their stock bombs, so does that wealth.
Unless that stock is sold, it’s just an intangible number that can’t be used for anything as-is. It’s also incredibly unlikely that any of the major billionaires specifically set out with that level of wealth as a target; anyone who has built a successful company should tell you that trying to do so to make yourself rich is the best and quickest way to make it fail.
Billionaires also tend to own big companies, which tend to employ a lot of people. So that’s a lot of opportunity driven by what was initially one person’s vision in most cases.
The exploitation argument isn’t universally applicable; some large corps do have shitty work cultures, but the figurehead is all to easy to blame for what is most likely to be a middle management issue. Billionaires sat in the ‘rarified air’ aren’t checking Bill Smith’s rota for October. They are the easiest to call out and in fairness should probably respond, but it’s more than likely something they are not aware with ‘bad news’ filtered away by layers of management beneath.
Tax it a difficult one, but the difference between potential and actual wealth needs to be remembered. As does the difference between personal tax avoidance and personal tax evasion. Everyone has the right to the former, no-one has the right to the latter. Where I do often object is corporate tax; companies that make billions and pay sod all business tax by rattling it around various group entities. As a company owner, that boils my piss a little given it truly is an exploitation of scale.
However, that is more likely to be driven by the CFO and bean counters at the dirty detail level, than by a CEO…..although probably aware of it. "
Fully with you re corporate tax. What boils my piss is watching the local coffee shops do a roaring trade while everyone was wfh and knowing that "back to the office" puts that trade in the hands of corporations who, unlike my local shops, avoid tax prolifically.
So you're saying billionaires aren't actually billionaires? Their personal wealth, in the bank, is less than one billion? |
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By *ad NannaWoman
over a year ago
East London |
I think ultra-rich people have a duty to do as much as possible for the planet and humanity.
If they want to earn billions from consumers they must bear the burden of the damage it does to the planet.
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The only issue I have with rich folk and I may add not all of them, is that they look down at poorer/ poor people like they are skum poor peoples blood is red just like theirs so why they think they are somehow better is something I will never understand |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"With a nod to Cockosaurus as it was his idea.
I think billionaires are parasites. I don't think most of us can conceive exactly how much a billion actually is. I think capitalism was fine once, but now it's gone too far and is actively killing people. Jeff bezos owns 3 times what it is calculated would cost to remove all the carbon from the atmosphere. Just one guy?!
During the industrial revolution the equivalent men of the day believed in the bible so built schools, hospitals, entire towns, villages and parks for their underpaid workforce who made them rich.
Trickle down economics we were told during the Reagan Thatcher era... my arse. I hate to quote Peter Mandelson because he's bloody awful, but he said "we have no problem with people becoming incredibly wealthy as long as they pay their taxes". The current lot dont, they swan about in spaceships.
Do you disagree?
"
Too much emotional argument in this.
First of all billionaires do not hold a truck load of cash sitting somewhere in a hidden vault. Most of them are shares they earned in the companies they work for. And most of their money are invested in other businesses. These businesses are thriving because the rich are investigating in them. This results in jobs that benefits everyone.
And 3 times the cost to remove all the carbon? Where does that even come from?
No. During the industrial revolution, the equivalent men did not keep building hospitals and schools. If they did, communism wouldn't have received such a large following. By the way, billionaires today donate a lot more to social causes than you think.
The current lot pay taxes on money they liquidate. As long a the money is in asset form like stocks, the government cannot collect taxes for it, just like how they can't get back their tax from the government as soon as the stock prices go down. These things happen only after the stocks are sold.
The world right now is in a much better position than it was. Globally, the % of people living in extreme poverty has gone down from 44% to just 9% in the last 40 years. Number of people suffering from food shortage has reduced drastically in the past 4 decades in spite of the rapidly growing population. Lifespans have increased all around.
I am happy with the way life standards have improved under capitalism. Not sure why you have to be worried about billionaires as long as they earn it following the rules, unless you are jealous of their growth. |
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By *orny PTMan
over a year ago
Peterborough |
"we have no problem with people becoming incredibly wealthy as long as they pay their taxes"
We need more philanthropy. Don't just get them to pay taxes, get them to build communities as well.
Bournville and Port Sunlight spring to mind. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"With a nod to Cockosaurus as it was his idea.
I think billionaires are parasites. I don't think most of us can conceive exactly how much a billion actually is. I think capitalism was fine once, but now it's gone too far and is actively killing people. Jeff bezos owns 3 times what it is calculated would cost to remove all the carbon from the atmosphere. Just one guy?!
During the industrial revolution the equivalent men of the day believed in the bible so built schools, hospitals, entire towns, villages and parks for their underpaid workforce who made them rich.
Trickle down economics we were told during the Reagan Thatcher era... my arse. I hate to quote Peter Mandelson because he's bloody awful, but he said "we have no problem with people becoming incredibly wealthy as long as they pay their taxes". The current lot dont, they swan about in spaceships.
Do you disagree?
Too much emotional argument in this.
First of all billionaires do not hold a truck load of cash sitting somewhere in a hidden vault. Most of them are shares they earned in the companies they work for. And most of their money are invested in other businesses. These businesses are thriving because the rich are investigating in them. This results in jobs that benefits everyone.
And 3 times the cost to remove all the carbon? Where does that even come from?
No. During the industrial revolution, the equivalent men did not keep building hospitals and schools. If they did, communism wouldn't have received such a large following. By the way, billionaires today donate a lot more to social causes than you think.
The current lot pay taxes on money they liquidate. As long a the money is in asset form like stocks, the government cannot collect taxes for it, just like how they can't get back their tax from the government as soon as the stock prices go down. These things happen only after the stocks are sold.
The world right now is in a much better position than it was. Globally, the % of people living in extreme poverty has gone down from 44% to just 9% in the last 40 years. Number of people suffering from food shortage has reduced drastically in the past 4 decades in spite of the rapidly growing population. Lifespans have increased all around.
I am happy with the way life standards have improved under capitalism. Not sure why you have to be worried about billionaires as long as they earn it following the rules, unless you are jealous of their growth."
Nope, as stated in the op I'm very comfortable with people becoming incredibly wealthy as long as they pay their taxes.
Lifespans are decreasing in large parts of the world. Not in the developed world I grant you.
Was David Cameron's "Big Society" not modeled on the benevolent industrialists of the 1800s?
Again, I ask the question, are billionaires, not actually then billionaires? Their personal wealth is not US$1 billion? |
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Few points from me (mr)
I know a lot of very wealthy people (no billionaires I think) and some of them have made their money through what I would consider unpleasant means and some who have made it through what I would consider utterly decent methods. I honestly don't think you can really say one group of people are unethical or parasites purely based on their wealth. Remember we're all the villains in somebody's story.
I also wonder where does the limit end. Look at a lot of the US politicians like Bernie and AOC who used to scream tax the millionaires. Now they're millionaires themselves and suddenly they scream about taxing the billionaires.
And as a side note, the Netflix series Explained did an episode on billionaires and despite what most people think billionaires generally are self made and millionaires more often than not inherit their wealth. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"With a nod to Cockosaurus as it was his idea.
I think billionaires are parasites. I don't think most of us can conceive exactly how much a billion actually is. I think capitalism was fine once, but now it's gone too far and is actively killing people. Jeff bezos owns 3 times what it is calculated would cost to remove all the carbon from the atmosphere. Just one guy?!
During the industrial revolution the equivalent men of the day believed in the bible so built schools, hospitals, entire towns, villages and parks for their underpaid workforce who made them rich.
Trickle down economics we were told during the Reagan Thatcher era... my arse. I hate to quote Peter Mandelson because he's bloody awful, but he said "we have no problem with people becoming incredibly wealthy as long as they pay their taxes". The current lot dont, they swan about in spaceships.
Do you disagree?
Too much emotional argument in this.
First of all billionaires do not hold a truck load of cash sitting somewhere in a hidden vault. Most of them are shares they earned in the companies they work for. And most of their money are invested in other businesses. These businesses are thriving because the rich are investigating in them. This results in jobs that benefits everyone.
And 3 times the cost to remove all the carbon? Where does that even come from?
No. During the industrial revolution, the equivalent men did not keep building hospitals and schools. If they did, communism wouldn't have received such a large following. By the way, billionaires today donate a lot more to social causes than you think.
The current lot pay taxes on money they liquidate. As long a the money is in asset form like stocks, the government cannot collect taxes for it, just like how they can't get back their tax from the government as soon as the stock prices go down. These things happen only after the stocks are sold.
The world right now is in a much better position than it was. Globally, the % of people living in extreme poverty has gone down from 44% to just 9% in the last 40 years. Number of people suffering from food shortage has reduced drastically in the past 4 decades in spite of the rapidly growing population. Lifespans have increased all around.
I am happy with the way life standards have improved under capitalism. Not sure why you have to be worried about billionaires as long as they earn it following the rules, unless you are jealous of their growth.
Nope, as stated in the op I'm very comfortable with people becoming incredibly wealthy as long as they pay their taxes.
Lifespans are decreasing in large parts of the world. Not in the developed world I grant you.
Was David Cameron's "Big Society" not modeled on the benevolent industrialists of the 1800s?
Again, I ask the question, are billionaires, not actually then billionaires? Their personal wealth is not US$1 billion?"
They are paying their taxes. They pay the taxes when they liquidate their money.
Their personal wealth will still be 1 billion if they don't invest it and keep it for themselves. If they are investing, it helps more businesses which creates more job opportunities. They are doing it obviously because their wealth will grow if they invest in businesses. But that indirectly helps the economy as a whole. That's how capitalism works. Using the individual's need to grow their wealth to improve the economy as a whole.
Lifespans are increasing everywhere. Show me a single data backed evidence to show that lifespans are decreasing. Stop consuming emotional drivel fed by the media and look at real stats.
https://ourworldindata.org/life-expectancy
I don't care what David Cameron modelled his stuff on.
Bill Gates has contributed over 36B dollars to philanthropy.
Mark Zuckerberg has pledged to contribute 99% of his wealth to philanthropy. Show me those 19th century philanthropists who contributed a big part of their income in philanthropy. |
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By *orny PTMan
over a year ago
Peterborough |
"
Again, I ask the question, are billionaires, not actually then billionaires? Their personal wealth is not US$1 billion?"
Good question, to which currency do we use as yard stick?
The Green back has defaulted to become the global currency of reference. |
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By *orny PTMan
over a year ago
Peterborough |
"With a nod to Cockosaurus as it was his idea.
I think billionaires are parasites. I don't think most of us can conceive exactly how much a billion actually is. I think capitalism was fine once, but now it's gone too far and is actively killing people. Jeff bezos owns 3 times what it is calculated would cost to remove all the carbon from the atmosphere. Just one guy?!
During the industrial revolution the equivalent men of the day believed in the bible so built schools, hospitals, entire towns, villages and parks for their underpaid workforce who made them rich.
Trickle down economics we were told during the Reagan Thatcher era... my arse. I hate to quote Peter Mandelson because he's bloody awful, but he said "we have no problem with people becoming incredibly wealthy as long as they pay their taxes". The current lot dont, they swan about in spaceships.
Do you disagree?
Too much emotional argument in this.
First of all billionaires do not hold a truck load of cash sitting somewhere in a hidden vault. Most of them are shares they earned in the companies they work for. And most of their money are invested in other businesses. These businesses are thriving because the rich are investigating in them. This results in jobs that benefits everyone.
And 3 times the cost to remove all the carbon? Where does that even come from?
No. During the industrial revolution, the equivalent men did not keep building hospitals and schools. If they did, communism wouldn't have received such a large following. By the way, billionaires today donate a lot more to social causes than you think.
The current lot pay taxes on money they liquidate. As long a the money is in asset form like stocks, the government cannot collect taxes for it, just like how they can't get back their tax from the government as soon as the stock prices go down. These things happen only after the stocks are sold.
The world right now is in a much better position than it was. Globally, the % of people living in extreme poverty has gone down from 44% to just 9% in the last 40 years. Number of people suffering from food shortage has reduced drastically in the past 4 decades in spite of the rapidly growing population. Lifespans have increased all around.
I am happy with the way life standards have improved under capitalism. Not sure why you have to be worried about billionaires as long as they earn it following the rules, unless you are jealous of their growth.
Nope, as stated in the op I'm very comfortable with people becoming incredibly wealthy as long as they pay their taxes.
Lifespans are decreasing in large parts of the world. Not in the developed world I grant you.
Was David Cameron's "Big Society" not modeled on the benevolent industrialists of the 1800s?
Again, I ask the question, are billionaires, not actually then billionaires? Their personal wealth is not US$1 billion?
They are paying their taxes. They pay the taxes when they liquidate their money.
Their personal wealth will still be 1 billion if they don't invest it and keep it for themselves. If they are investing, it helps more businesses which creates more job opportunities. They are doing it obviously because their wealth will grow if they invest in businesses. But that indirectly helps the economy as a whole. That's how capitalism works. Using the individual's need to grow their wealth to improve the economy as a whole.
Lifespans are increasing everywhere. Show me a single data backed evidence to show that lifespans are decreasing. Stop consuming emotional drivel fed by the media and look at real stats.
https://ourworldindata.org/life-expectancy
I don't care what David Cameron modelled his stuff on.
Bill Gates has contributed over 36B dollars to philanthropy.
Mark Zuckerberg has pledged to contribute 99% of his wealth to philanthropy. Show me those 19th century philanthropists who contributed a big part of their income in philanthropy."
Cadbury and Lever might be worth researching. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I have no issue with wealth if acquired honestly. But we do need to alter our society, so that we have a much fairer system, as things have been skewed very disproportionately away from most people being able to prosper from their labour, to a reasonable extent, compared to the very wealthy.
I think that it is hard to "earn" billions without exploiting others... usually the ones who actually do the work.
Cal"
I'd say it's impossible. |
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By *iger4uWoman
over a year ago
In my happy place |
"I don’t have a problem with wealthy people ….. providing they respect and reward those who earned it for them and they support their local communities…. at the very least
Yep. This is my thoughts too.
Some bad mouth the rich, simply for being rich. In my mind that reeks of jealousy more than anything.
At what point do these people start to dislike people for their money?
When they have Billions? Millions? Thousands? Hundreds?
Dislike people for how they make their money, how the mistreat people and for greed, ut not purely for having money.
Many rich people are very generous with their time and available money. Often much more so than those who moan about them. "
The new money flash gits tend not to and stand out as show offs. |
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They pay more in taxes than the sum of all the others
They create great services and jobs. They keep the economy rolling
I don’t think they’re are great, but it’s more complicated then “they are bad” |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Billionaires in free market countries are billionaires for the following reasons:
* They took big risks in life which most people never take.
* They were hard working, clever and understood the market.
Most of us have minor financial goals that we achieve by going to our day to day jobs. Very few have bigger goals of creating big businesses.
Of those few people, very few succeed because they failed in point 2 I mentioned above. Only the remaining few end up running a sustainable/growing business. These businesses are the reason why people like us are having jobs. Huge corporates have gone bankrupt in the past. So running a big company is not a simple thing.
Not saying that billionaires are saints. They run businesses to achieve their personal goals. In a free market economy, individual successes help everyone. |
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By *aiseiMan
over a year ago
Birmingham |
"Fully with you re corporate tax. What boils my piss is watching the local coffee shops do a roaring trade while everyone was wfh and knowing that "back to the office" puts that trade in the hands of corporations who, unlike my local shops, avoid tax prolifically.
So you're saying billionaires aren't actually billionaires? Their personal wealth, in the bank, is less than one billion? "
Some will have that kind of cash in the bank, others may not. It won’t be universal, although I’d happily wager none of them have every penny they’re quoted to have in cash….it wouldn’t be sensible at all.
Musk topped $335bn wealth at one point, but that figure wouldn’t be showing in his NatWest account when he logs on….  |
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Apparently Jeff Bezos can buy the top 10 most expensive of every house, car, holiday, etc and it would make a negligible difference to his wealth. Nobody needs that much money. Its basically impossible to spend. |
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"Apparently Jeff Bezos can buy the top 10 most expensive of every house, car, holiday, etc and it would make a negligible difference to his wealth. Nobody needs that much money. Its basically impossible to spend. "
Particularly when his staff are so poorly paid! |
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"Apparently Jeff Bezos can buy the top 10 most expensive of every house, car, holiday, etc and it would make a negligible difference to his wealth. Nobody needs that much money. Its basically impossible to spend.
Particularly when his staff are so poorly paid! "
So poorly that us tax payers need to pay to supplement their wages through UC. |
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"Apparently Jeff Bezos can buy the top 10 most expensive of every house, car, holiday, etc and it would make a negligible difference to his wealth. Nobody needs that much money. Its basically impossible to spend.
Particularly when his staff are so poorly paid!
So poorly that us tax payers need to pay to supplement their wages through UC."
Exactly. And there are many more that do the same. |
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"Apparently Jeff Bezos can buy the top 10 most expensive of every house, car, holiday, etc and it would make a negligible difference to his wealth. Nobody needs that much money. Its basically impossible to spend.
Particularly when his staff are so poorly paid!
So poorly that us tax payers need to pay to supplement their wages through UC."
It used to be called working tax credit. |
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By *host63Man
over a year ago
Bedfont Feltham |
Think of this. Brexit was started when the EU was going to bring in laws that woukd close tax avoidance loopholes for the rich.
Now look at the most rabid anti brexiters and look at their Net worth. |
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"Apparently Jeff Bezos can buy the top 10 most expensive of every house, car, holiday, etc and it would make a negligible difference to his wealth. Nobody needs that much money. Its basically impossible to spend.
Particularly when his staff are so poorly paid!
So poorly that us tax payers need to pay to supplement their wages through UC.
It used to be called working tax credit. "
No matter what they call it, working people shouldn't be having to pay a top up on people's wages so that billionaire's can pay their staff a wage they can't afford to live on. I have no issue paying to support small businesses to pay better wages but not these greedy bastards. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Anyone who defends billionaires and the poisonous ideology that justifies their greed is a genuine idiot or A naive fool with little understanding of how the world actually works( to their benefit )
There should be no billionaires in the world. The world would be a better place without them,and every person's life would be noticeably better off if they were absent. That's a fact.
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By *aiseiMan
over a year ago
Birmingham |
"Anyone who defends billionaires and the poisonous ideology that justifies their greed is a genuine idiot or A naive fool with little understanding of how the world actually works( to their benefit )
There should be no billionaires in the world. The world would be a better place without them,and every person's life would be noticeably better off if they were absent. That's a fact. "
Why do you assume they care how much they’ve made? If it’s impossible to spend personally, why would it matter?
There may well be plenty who have done it for solely that reason; but to assume that every single one has done it to participate in a financial pissing match is as naïve and blinkered as your claim to the contrary. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I'm OK with the concept of billionaires, and as long as they've added value to society on their way to making their fortune and haven't exploited employees, customers, the planet etc then good on them.
Not sure what I've described exists though and all those I'm aware of are absolute bastards bleeding society dry. |
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"Billionaires in free market countries are billionaires for the following reasons:
* They took big risks in life which most people never take.
* They were hard working, clever and understood the market.
Most of us have minor financial goals that we achieve by going to our day to day jobs. Very few have bigger goals of creating big businesses.
Of those few people, very few succeed because they failed in point 2 I mentioned above. Only the remaining few end up running a sustainable/growing business. These businesses are the reason why people like us are having jobs. Huge corporates have gone bankrupt in the past. So running a big company is not a simple thing.
Not saying that billionaires are saints. They run businesses to achieve their personal goals. In a free market economy, individual successes help everyone."
Totally erroneous. Jeff Besos was backed by his rich family. Elon Musk's dad owned emerald mines in apartheid era South Africa. They neither risked anything not worked harder than anyone else.
What they have done, especially in Besos' case, is take advantage of what's been said here already: other working people subsidising the wages of their workers. It's not their companies making profit which is making them richer, it's the rest of us essentially paying for them to pay their workers less.
The billionaires and millionaires are leeches on society, not wealth creators. They exploit the benefits of society, such as education, infrastructure, a legal system, while not paying back for the benefits the rest of us have given them. If their workers couldn't read, or their trucks not use the roads, or people would be able to steal freely from them, they'd be stuffed, and we'd end up in some sort of warlord society.
There aren't many people who got rich by being nice. And then giving away their fortunes after they die is completely pointless. There wouldn't be a need for charities if they paid their fair share of the benefit we as society give them. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Totally erroneous. Jeff Besos was backed by his rich family. Elon Musk's dad owned emerald mines in apartheid era South Africa. They neither risked anything not worked harder than anyone else.
What they have done, especially in Besos' case, is take advantage of what's been said here already: other working people subsidising the wages of their workers. It's not their companies making profit which is making them richer, it's the rest of us essentially paying for them to pay their workers less.
The billionaires and millionaires are leeches on society, not wealth creators. They exploit the benefits of society, such as education, infrastructure, a legal system, while not paying back for the benefits the rest of us have given them. If their workers couldn't read, or their trucks not use the roads, or people would be able to steal freely from them, they'd be stuffed, and we'd end up in some sort of warlord society.
There aren't many people who got rich by being nice. And then giving away their fortunes after they die is completely pointless. There wouldn't be a need for charities if they paid their fair share of the benefit we as society give them."
Do you even know what Jeff Bezos family was doing? He was born out of a teenage pregnancy. His parents got divorced. His mother remarried to a Cuban immigrant. Both his parents did middle class jobs. His parents gave him a total if 300,000 USD, which was their entire life savings. He was afraid of accepting it because he felt that if the company goes bankrupt, he won't be able to face them again. That's the risk I am talking about. Most of us wouldn't take that risk. Most people who take the risk won't succeed.
Musk's dad owned mines. But do you know of his relationship with his dad? His father was abusive and cut ties with him completely. He took loan to go to university. He started a company with 2000$ loaned to him by his brother. Don't blind yourself with left/right wing media stories who use half truths to promote their agenda.
Sergey Brin didn't have family wealth either. Larry Ellison was given to his aunt for adoption because he had pneumonia at a young age. That family wasn't wealthy either. These are few of the 10 richest people on the planet. If you look at the ten richest in the 90s, you will see that none of them or their descendants would make to the current list. So being born into wealth isn't a guarantee that they will go on to become rich.
What the hell do you mean by exploiting society's infrastructure? Is offering jobs to people exploiting the infrastructure? If you learn some skills which are in demand for the society, you will be well paid. If you learn a skill that's of absolutely no use to the society, you won't get a job. Even if you get one, you won't be paid well. It's a simple math which every company does. It's not specific to big corporations.
How much of your own wealth have you donated when you are alive? Btw Bill Gates and Zuckerberg are donating already when they are alive.
They are where they are because they deserved it. I admire them. Keep aside the envy and just try reading their life stories instead of consuming random stuff thrown at you by media. |
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