FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Lewis or Max
Lewis or Max
Jump to: Newest in thread
 |
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Can I be slightly controversial and say I’m in admiration of the two of them. They’ve pushed each other to the limits of fair racing, and beyond at times. They’re streets ahead of the other drivers in terms of speed and skill.
I hope that on Sunday, that the title isn’t decided by stewards, or and kind of motor racing skullduggery.
A side note, skullduggery is an awesome word. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
They’re both great drivers and the fact there’s a bit of needle between them is great for the sport. I’ll say Lewis, just because I am patriotic but it would be hard begrudge Max winning his first title. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *AYENCouple
over a year ago
Lincolnshire |
"lewis should be disqualified for deliberately crashing into Max,to get him out of the race.
This is not the first time this season Lewis has done this"
I think you need to go to Specsavers  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
Have to say Max
He has been the best driver, and also if you look at DNF's that were not his fault he should have won already.
The turning point for me was Silverstone, everyone is keen to say Max is hot headed when Lewis made the most dangerous move of the season which could have ended very differently.
Not saying Lewis isn't a great driver but he has had the best car for far to long. He used to be a great racer, he needs to get some of that back.
Most people only look at results, look at the season as a whole and stewards decisions, it shows a whole other story.
This coming from a devout Senna fan 
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"lewis should be disqualified for deliberately crashing into Max,to get him out of the race.
This is not the first time this season Lewis has done this
I think you need to go to Specsavers "
Lewis was holding back as well so as to not give away DRS, didn't want to pass there. But it is the lead driver who decides where he lets the other driver go past |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"lewis should be disqualified for deliberately crashing into Max,to get him out of the race.
This is not the first time this season Lewis has done this"
Have you seen the data. Confirmed he brake checked him. 69bar of pressure on brake pedal resulting in - 2.4g deceleration.... Brake checked. Guilty!!! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"We are dead set Lewis fans who is with us "
I’m with you.
I think Max is an extremely talented driver however I feel there’s some growing up to be done.
It’s like when Vettel came in the scene it’s difficult to warm to him.
Lewis may have had the best car for many years but brings far more to F1 than being the fastest in the fastest car. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"lewis should be disqualified for deliberately crashing into Max,to get him out of the race.
This is not the first time this season Lewis has done this"
Hamilton would have zero to gain from that scenario. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *AYENCouple
over a year ago
Lincolnshire |
"Have to say Max
He has been the best driver, and also if you look at DNF's that were not his fault he should have won already.
The turning point for me was Silverstone, everyone is keen to say Max is hot headed when Lewis made the most dangerous move of the season which could have ended very differently.
Not saying Lewis isn't a great driver but he has had the best car for far to long. He used to be a great racer, he needs to get some of that back.
Most people only look at results, look at the season as a whole and stewards decisions, it shows a whole other story.
This coming from a devout Senna fan
"
He brake checked Lewis!
When Max learns to fight for a race, rather than for every corner, he'll be unstoppable. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ltrMan
over a year ago
sheffield |
"lewis should be disqualified for deliberately crashing into Max,to get him out of the race.
This is not the first time this season Lewis has done this
I think you need to go to Specsavers "
OMG was you watching the same race lewis was way into the corner when max cut over the infield BECAUSE lewis had a better start then him. max threw out his teddy because for once the stewards were on lewis side , so he brake tested him not moving over so that he could take lewis out or make sure he could get back past him under drs |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Can I be slightly controversial and say I’m in admiration of the two of them. They’ve pushed each other to the limits of fair racing, and beyond at times. They’re streets ahead of the other drivers in terms of speed and skill.
I hope that on Sunday, that the title isn’t decided by stewards, or and kind of motor racing skullduggery.
A side note, skullduggery is an awesome word."
This  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Have to say Max
He has been the best driver, and also if you look at DNF's that were not his fault he should have won already.
The turning point for me was Silverstone, everyone is keen to say Max is hot headed when Lewis made the most dangerous move of the season which could have ended very differently.
Not saying Lewis isn't a great driver but he has had the best car for far to long. He used to be a great racer, he needs to get some of that back.
Most people only look at results, look at the season as a whole and stewards decisions, it shows a whole other story.
This coming from a devout Senna fan
He brake checked Lewis!
When Max learns to fight for a race, rather than for every corner, he'll be unstoppable."
He didn't brake check him, they where both trying to not go through DRS in front.
Both of them knew what was happening or why else wouldn't of Lewis just passed him as he slowed to start with.
So i am not saying either is innocent just it wasn't quite so simple as a break check, both trying to gain advantage so why only max getting all the crap ??
And who was the driver out of the two got a black and white flag (unsportsmanlike behaviour) warning if he made a move like that again on passing Max ?? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *m3232Man
over a year ago
maidenhead |
"lewis should be disqualified for deliberately crashing into Max,to get him out of the race.
This is not the first time this season Lewis has done this
Have you seen the data. Confirmed he brake checked him. 69bar of pressure on brake pedal resulting in - 2.4g deceleration.... Brake checked. Guilty!!! "
Changing down way before and lewis not overtaking when he is racing him is way beyond what you would expect him to overtake and then braking to tell him to come past. This way a massive mistake on lewis part not verstapens
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
It’s all a bit moot anyway. It’s even stevens at the top. Winner takes all on Sunday.
The history books will either show that Lewis won his 8th title, or Max winking his first. They won’t show the silliness that has been some of their, and their teams behaviours throughout the year. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *m3232Man
over a year ago
maidenhead |
"It’s all a bit moot anyway. It’s even stevens at the top. Winner takes all on Sunday.
The history books will either show that Lewis won his 8th title, or Max winking his first. They won’t show the silliness that has been some of their, and their teams behaviours throughout the year."
Who ever wins it would have earnt it as this yard been brilliant unlike the total merc domination for the last 7 years. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It’s all a bit moot anyway. It’s even stevens at the top. Winner takes all on Sunday.
The history books will either show that Lewis won his 8th title, or Max winking his first. They won’t show the silliness that has been some of their, and their teams behaviours throughout the year.
Who ever wins it would have earnt it as this yard been brilliant unlike the total merc domination for the last 7 years. "
Totally agreed. It’s been an enjoyable watch to see the fight see-saw to and fro’. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
I think this is the best possible outcome to the season. I think both are brilliant drivers and both have shown errors too. They are both human at the end of the day. Max has gained a rep but he is the only person who has been able to hold his own against Lewis and that has to be applauded.
As a neutral I am really glad there is an exciting race coming up! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Have to say Max
He has been the best driver, and also if you look at DNF's that were not his fault he should have won already.
The turning point for me was Silverstone, everyone is keen to say Max is hot headed when Lewis made the most dangerous move of the season which could have ended very differently.
Not saying Lewis isn't a great driver but he has had the best car for far to long. He used to be a great racer, he needs to get some of that back.
Most people only look at results, look at the season as a whole and stewards decisions, it shows a whole other story.
This coming from a devout Senna fan
He brake checked Lewis!
When Max learns to fight for a race, rather than for every corner, he'll be unstoppable.
He didn't brake check him, they where both trying to not go through DRS in front.
Both of them knew what was happening or why else wouldn't of Lewis just passed him as he slowed to start with.
So i am not saying either is innocent just it wasn't quite so simple as a break check, both trying to gain advantage so why only max getting all the crap ??
And who was the driver out of the two got a black and white flag (unsportsmanlike behaviour) warning if he made a move like that again on passing Max ??"
Max is unpredictable and Lewis know this. Max is willing to pull moves that can take both drivers out of the race. You're right they were both playing for the DRS but Lewis also didn't get the message and wasn't sure what Max was up to. Max is a bully and always expects Lewis to back off in corners. Lewis is consistent in all his battle with other drivers and when ever he tries to overtake Max you know that MV is willing to play dirty. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
Young Max needs a good team around him who will mould him into a great champion someday . At the moment I think Christian and his dad are not good for him ,he needs level headed people who will build him up |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Is it coincidence that Seb’ Vettel wasn’t a particularly well liked Champion, much the same as Max is likely to be. Whinger Spice being the boss in both instances.
I see similarities in their behaviours. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Is it coincidence that Seb’ Vettel wasn’t a particularly well liked Champion, much the same as Max is likely to be. Whinger Spice being the boss in both instances.
I see similarities in their behaviours. "
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Is it coincidence that Seb’ Vettel wasn’t a particularly well liked Champion, much the same as Max is likely to be. Whinger Spice being the boss in both instances.
I see similarities in their behaviours. "
Red Bull are a toxic team with a nasty culture and management. They breed and back bad drivers and behaviour. Vettel did grow up into a good person eventually though. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ea monkeyMan
over a year ago
Manchester (he/him) |
Lewis.
I think that Max has bullied his way into his position and for the first half of the season he put himself into 50/50 situations that other drivers had to back out of.
Since silverstone Lewis hasn’t backed out and simply won’t, which has made it down to actual driving.
Max is a great driver and no doubt is great for the sport but I’ve loved watching Lewis take the fight to Max and beating him on his terms. Fingers crossed the final race is decided on skill, not something else |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Have to say Max
He has been the best driver, and also if you look at DNF's that were not his fault he should have won already.
The turning point for me was Silverstone, everyone is keen to say Max is hot headed when Lewis made the most dangerous move of the season which could have ended very differently.
Not saying Lewis isn't a great driver but he has had the best car for far to long. He used to be a great racer, he needs to get some of that back.
Most people only look at results, look at the season as a whole and stewards decisions, it shows a whole other story.
This coming from a devout Senna fan
He brake checked Lewis!
When Max learns to fight for a race, rather than for every corner, he'll be unstoppable.
He didn't brake check him, they where both trying to not go through DRS in front.
Both of them knew what was happening or why else wouldn't of Lewis just passed him as he slowed to start with.
So i am not saying either is innocent just it wasn't quite so simple as a break check, both trying to gain advantage so why only max getting all the crap ??
And who was the driver out of the two got a black and white flag (unsportsmanlike behaviour) warning if he made a move like that again on passing Max ??
Max is unpredictable and Lewis know this. Max is willing to pull moves that can take both drivers out of the race. You're right they were both playing for the DRS but Lewis also didn't get the message and wasn't sure what Max was up to. Max is a bully and always expects Lewis to back off in corners. Lewis is consistent in all his battle with other drivers and when ever he tries to overtake Max you know that MV is willing to play dirty."
If Lewis didn't get the message then you have to be asking questions about his team and their radio comms so Mercedes can't claim to be squeaky clean. From what I recall he had however been told and he was just trying to make sure he didn't get tagged with DRS for the next corner which is what happened on the next incident between them. They were both playing silly buggers but having just watched the race highlights it is clear there is a lot of space Lewis could have taken. He didn't need to tuck himself under Max's gearbox. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Surprised there are actually British people here cheering for Max, hmm, interesting.
I've been supporting Lewis since his first formula 1 season, through the ups and downs and will always support LH44 as he chases his history and cement himself as the GOAT |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Have to say Max
He has been the best driver, and also if you look at DNF's that were not his fault he should have won already.
The turning point for me was Silverstone, everyone is keen to say Max is hot headed when Lewis made the most dangerous move of the season which could have ended very differently.
Not saying Lewis isn't a great driver but he has had the best car for far to long. He used to be a great racer, he needs to get some of that back.
Most people only look at results, look at the season as a whole and stewards decisions, it shows a whole other story.
This coming from a devout Senna fan
He brake checked Lewis!
When Max learns to fight for a race, rather than for every corner, he'll be unstoppable.
He didn't brake check him, they where both trying to not go through DRS in front.
Both of them knew what was happening or why else wouldn't of Lewis just passed him as he slowed to start with.
So i am not saying either is innocent just it wasn't quite so simple as a break check, both trying to gain advantage so why only max getting all the crap ??
And who was the driver out of the two got a black and white flag (unsportsmanlike behaviour) warning if he made a move like that again on passing Max ??
Max is unpredictable and Lewis know this. Max is willing to pull moves that can take both drivers out of the race. You're right they were both playing for the DRS but Lewis also didn't get the message and wasn't sure what Max was up to. Max is a bully and always expects Lewis to back off in corners. Lewis is consistent in all his battle with other drivers and when ever he tries to overtake Max you know that MV is willing to play dirty.
If Lewis didn't get the message then you have to be asking questions about his team and their radio comms so Mercedes can't claim to be squeaky clean. From what I recall he had however been told and he was just trying to make sure he didn't get tagged with DRS for the next corner which is what happened on the next incident between them. They were both playing silly buggers but having just watched the race highlights it is clear there is a lot of space Lewis could have taken. He didn't need to tuck himself under Max's gearbox."
Have you listened to the radio conversation between Michael, Mercedes and Redbull. They informed Redbull first and then Mercedes and the incident happened while Mercedes was relaying the message to Lewis's engineer to inform him. Let's work with actual fact and the evidence at hand |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Have to say Max
He has been the best driver, and also if you look at DNF's that were not his fault he should have won already.
The turning point for me was Silverstone, everyone is keen to say Max is hot headed when Lewis made the most dangerous move of the season which could have ended very differently.
Not saying Lewis isn't a great driver but he has had the best car for far to long. He used to be a great racer, he needs to get some of that back.
Most people only look at results, look at the season as a whole and stewards decisions, it shows a whole other story.
This coming from a devout Senna fan
He brake checked Lewis!
When Max learns to fight for a race, rather than for every corner, he'll be unstoppable.
He didn't brake check him, they where both trying to not go through DRS in front.
Both of them knew what was happening or why else wouldn't of Lewis just passed him as he slowed to start with.
So i am not saying either is innocent just it wasn't quite so simple as a break check, both trying to gain advantage so why only max getting all the crap ??
And who was the driver out of the two got a black and white flag (unsportsmanlike behaviour) warning if he made a move like that again on passing Max ??
Max is unpredictable and Lewis know this. Max is willing to pull moves that can take both drivers out of the race. You're right they were both playing for the DRS but Lewis also didn't get the message and wasn't sure what Max was up to. Max is a bully and always expects Lewis to back off in corners. Lewis is consistent in all his battle with other drivers and when ever he tries to overtake Max you know that MV is willing to play dirty.
If Lewis didn't get the message then you have to be asking questions about his team and their radio comms so Mercedes can't claim to be squeaky clean. From what I recall he had however been told and he was just trying to make sure he didn't get tagged with DRS for the next corner which is what happened on the next incident between them. They were both playing silly buggers but having just watched the race highlights it is clear there is a lot of space Lewis could have taken. He didn't need to tuck himself under Max's gearbox.
Have you listened to the radio conversation between Michael, Mercedes and Redbull. They informed Redbull first and then Mercedes and the incident happened while Mercedes was relaying the message to Lewis's engineer to inform him. Let's work with actual fact and the evidence at hand "
And max still did not let him pass, he slammed his brakes on lewis had a fender bender with his rear and max shot off down the track. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Have to say Max
He has been the best driver, and also if you look at DNF's that were not his fault he should have won already.
The turning point for me was Silverstone, everyone is keen to say Max is hot headed when Lewis made the most dangerous move of the season which could have ended very differently.
Not saying Lewis isn't a great driver but he has had the best car for far to long. He used to be a great racer, he needs to get some of that back.
Most people only look at results, look at the season as a whole and stewards decisions, it shows a whole other story.
This coming from a devout Senna fan
He brake checked Lewis!
When Max learns to fight for a race, rather than for every corner, he'll be unstoppable.
He didn't brake check him, they where both trying to not go through DRS in front.
Both of them knew what was happening or why else wouldn't of Lewis just passed him as he slowed to start with.
So i am not saying either is innocent just it wasn't quite so simple as a break check, both trying to gain advantage so why only max getting all the crap ??
And who was the driver out of the two got a black and white flag (unsportsmanlike behaviour) warning if he made a move like that again on passing Max ??
Max is unpredictable and Lewis know this. Max is willing to pull moves that can take both drivers out of the race. You're right they were both playing for the DRS but Lewis also didn't get the message and wasn't sure what Max was up to. Max is a bully and always expects Lewis to back off in corners. Lewis is consistent in all his battle with other drivers and when ever he tries to overtake Max you know that MV is willing to play dirty.
If Lewis didn't get the message then you have to be asking questions about his team and their radio comms so Mercedes can't claim to be squeaky clean. From what I recall he had however been told and he was just trying to make sure he didn't get tagged with DRS for the next corner which is what happened on the next incident between them. They were both playing silly buggers but having just watched the race highlights it is clear there is a lot of space Lewis could have taken. He didn't need to tuck himself under Max's gearbox.
Have you listened to the radio conversation between Michael, Mercedes and Redbull. They informed Redbull first and then Mercedes and the incident happened while Mercedes was relaying the message to Lewis's engineer to inform him. Let's work with actual fact and the evidence at hand "
I agree he may not have been told, but he was way to close when he should have passed a slower car in front.
He also as an experienced driver knew the possibility of Max having to give the place back so he isn't squeaky clean in this.
As i said before they where both plying for the DRS only difference is Max had to give the place and it is his choice where he does that.
Another point at the 20th or something restart when Max was in 3rd and took the lead that could have gone very wrong as well but he was a genius then ?
A racing driver should always go for the gap other wise you are no longer racing.
Yes i am old and grew up with Senna who did indeed put his car in the gap and you decided if you wanted and accident or not but everyone knew this, just as everyone does with Max and lewis before he got into the Merc.
Never going to be black and white all i am saying is look at both sides |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"lewis should be disqualified for deliberately crashing into Max,to get him out of the race.
This is not the first time this season Lewis has done this"
That is not what the race Stewards said and they are independant experts who have all the data from both cars.
They said Max braked with 69bar pressure when Lewis was close behind him. They penalised Max 10 seconds and put points on his licence.
If you know better please contact Jean Todt (President of the FIA) or Michael Massey (Race Director). In the mean time perhaps you will refrain from making spurious accusations. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"lewis should be disqualified for deliberately crashing into Max,to get him out of the race.
This is not the first time this season Lewis has done this
That is not what the race Stewards said and they are independant experts who have all the data from both cars.
They said Max braked with 69bar pressure when Lewis was close behind him. They penalised Max 10 seconds and put points on his licence.
If you know better please contact Jean Todt (President of the FIA) or Michael Massey (Race Director). In the mean time perhaps you will refrain from making spurious accusations. "
If you look at the way Max speeds away from the crime scene after the incident , he was hoping Lewis's wing was badly damaged and the was no way he was going to catch him |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *m3232Man
over a year ago
maidenhead |
"Lewis.
I think that Max has bullied his way into his position and for the first half of the season he put himself into 50/50 situations that other drivers had to back out of.
Since silverstone Lewis hasn’t backed out and simply won’t, which has made it down to actual driving.
Max is a great driver and no doubt is great for the sport but I’ve loved watching Lewis take the fight to Max and beating him on his terms. Fingers crossed the final race is decided on skill, not something else"
Silverstone was a big mistake for lewis with the speed of the accident. That showed he can make mistakes. Max had left enough of a gap and got crashed in to. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Have to say Max
He has been the best driver, and also if you look at DNF's that were not his fault he should have won already.
The turning point for me was Silverstone, everyone is keen to say Max is hot headed when Lewis made the most dangerous move of the season which could have ended very differently.
Not saying Lewis isn't a great driver but he has had the best car for far to long. He used to be a great racer, he needs to get some of that back.
Most people only look at results, look at the season as a whole and stewards decisions, it shows a whole other story.
This coming from a devout Senna fan
He brake checked Lewis!
When Max learns to fight for a race, rather than for every corner, he'll be unstoppable.
He didn't brake check him, they where both trying to not go through DRS in front.
Both of them knew what was happening or why else wouldn't of Lewis just passed him as he slowed to start with.
So i am not saying either is innocent just it wasn't quite so simple as a break check, both trying to gain advantage so why only max getting all the crap ??
And who was the driver out of the two got a black and white flag (unsportsmanlike behaviour) warning if he made a move like that again on passing Max ??
Max is unpredictable and Lewis know this. Max is willing to pull moves that can take both drivers out of the race. You're right they were both playing for the DRS but Lewis also didn't get the message and wasn't sure what Max was up to. Max is a bully and always expects Lewis to back off in corners. Lewis is consistent in all his battle with other drivers and when ever he tries to overtake Max you know that MV is willing to play dirty.
If Lewis didn't get the message then you have to be asking questions about his team and their radio comms so Mercedes can't claim to be squeaky clean. From what I recall he had however been told and he was just trying to make sure he didn't get tagged with DRS for the next corner which is what happened on the next incident between them. They were both playing silly buggers but having just watched the race highlights it is clear there is a lot of space Lewis could have taken. He didn't need to tuck himself under Max's gearbox.
Have you listened to the radio conversation between Michael, Mercedes and Redbull. They informed Redbull first and then Mercedes and the incident happened while Mercedes was relaying the message to Lewis's engineer to inform him. Let's work with actual fact and the evidence at hand "
No I haven’t listened to the radio message which is why I prefaced my statement with a caveat. I listened to the race on bbc sounds and then just watched the highlights on YouTube which is why I said what I said.
Personally I think there are some changes that need to come from this:
1. These messages should be given to both teams on the same channel so there is no confusion as to times.
2 There should probably be a designated part of the track to allow places to be given back without someone gaining advantage.
3. If 2 is not done then maybe a light on the steering wheel to both drivers to indicate an overtake can take place should go on and the ahead driver should slow down by X. If the driver behind doesn’t take the offer after y seconds then the chance is lost. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"lewis should be disqualified for deliberately crashing into Max,to get him out of the race.
This is not the first time this season Lewis has done this
That is not what the race Stewards said and they are independant experts who have all the data from both cars.
They said Max braked with 69bar pressure when Lewis was close behind him. They penalised Max 10 seconds and put points on his licence.
If you know better please contact Jean Todt (President of the FIA) or Michael Massey (Race Director). In the mean time perhaps you will refrain from making spurious accusations. "
I agree with you but if you want facts, from Lewis after the race
"it became apparent he was trying to let me past…but before the DRS zone." in the press conference
So he knew what Max was trying to do ....so why sit so close behind him or better still just pass him when he started slowing earlier on ?? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
2 things I’ve said for years and stand by, that are probably more apt than ever this year:
1) Max is an incredible driver, but an average racer. Put him next to another car and ask them to go toe to toe he makes poor decisions, often getting away with them as the other guy makes better ones to cancel them out and avoid crashes. A bit like Hill was so fast, on an empty road, but Schumi handed his ass to him on a plate EVERY time they tried to share the same track
2) with that in mind, if you put Max on a track to race another Max, neither would ever finish a race as neither has ever backed out of a single move and rely on others to do it for them. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"2 things I’ve said for years and stand by, that are probably more apt than ever this year:
1) Max is an incredible driver, but an average racer. Put him next to another car and ask them to go toe to toe he makes poor decisions, often getting away with them as the other guy makes better ones to cancel them out and avoid crashes. A bit like Hill was so fast, on an empty road, but Schumi handed his ass to him on a plate EVERY time they tried to share the same track
2) with that in mind, if you put Max on a track to race another Max, neither would ever finish a race as neither has ever backed out of a single move and rely on others to do it for them."
This. I've mentioned this to some people a few times and the don't seem to understand that it's not just about driving fast it's racing. Thank you |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"lewis should be disqualified for deliberately crashing into Max,to get him out of the race.
This is not the first time this season Lewis has done this
That is not what the race Stewards said and they are independant experts who have all the data from both cars.
They said Max braked with 69bar pressure when Lewis was close behind him. They penalised Max 10 seconds and put points on his licence.
If you know better please contact Jean Todt (President of the FIA) or Michael Massey (Race Director). In the mean time perhaps you will refrain from making spurious accusations.
I agree with you but if you want facts, from Lewis after the race
"it became apparent he was trying to let me past…but before the DRS zone." in the press conference
So he knew what Max was trying to do ....so why sit so close behind him or better still just pass him when he started slowing earlier on ??"
That's exactly what he said 'it became apparent ' not it was apparent. So it became apparent after the incident a d when he was told that's what was supposed to happen. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
It's got to be Max for me. He would have wrapped up the championship already but for some absolutely terrible luck in a couple of the races. Red Bull and Max in particular have done a great job to upset the Mercedes dominance.
Plus, Max doesn't have anyone following him around carrying his helmet / scooter / air-con / umbrella / packed lunch / spare pair of undies for him  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"lewis should be disqualified for deliberately crashing into Max,to get him out of the race.
This is not the first time this season Lewis has done this
That is not what the race Stewards said and they are independant experts who have all the data from both cars.
They said Max braked with 69bar pressure when Lewis was close behind him. They penalised Max 10 seconds and put points on his licence.
If you know better please contact Jean Todt (President of the FIA) or Michael Massey (Race Director). In the mean time perhaps you will refrain from making spurious accusations.
I agree with you but if you want facts, from Lewis after the race
"it became apparent he was trying to let me past…but before the DRS zone." in the press conference
So he knew what Max was trying to do ....so why sit so close behind him or better still just pass him when he started slowing earlier on ??"
Lewis had not been told that Max had been told to let him past when he caught up with him. He was therefore initially confused when Max slowed in the middle of a narrow section of the track and weaved (watch the on board shots for proof) [If Max had wanted a clean gifting back of the position he would have stayed and slowed on the racing line.]
Subsequently Lewis realised what was happening only for Max to brake hard (69 bar) which caused Lewis to hit him. Lewis then realised the DRS implication.
You could say Max's plan was to damage the front wing of Lewis's faster car so Lewis was forced to pit to change it and thus enable Max to win. Always bearing in mind a wing change pit stop would bring Lewis out behind Ocon and Bottas.
However, despite the masses of data coming from the car there is nothing about the thoughts of the drivers so it is wrong to suggest Max tried to deliberately damage Lewis's car. In the end Max's erratic driving and brake testing gave him a 10 second penalty. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
Lewis had not been told that Max had been told to let him past when he caught up with him. He was therefore initially confused when Max slowed in the middle of a narrow section of the track and weaved (watch the on board shots for proof) [If Max had wanted a clean gifting back of the position he would have stayed and slowed on the racing line.]
Subsequently Lewis realised what was happening only for Max to brake hard (69 bar) which caused Lewis to hit him. Lewis then realised the DRS implication.
You could say Max's plan was to damage the front wing of Lewis's faster car so Lewis was forced to pit to change it and thus enable Max to win. Always bearing in mind a wing change pit stop would bring Lewis out behind Ocon and Bottas.
However, despite the masses of data coming from the car there is nothing about the thoughts of the drivers so it is wrong to suggest Max tried to deliberately damage Lewis's car. In the end Max's erratic driving and brake testing gave him a 10 second penalty. "
A seven times world champion who has been throwing his car into incredibly tight spaces his entire career is “confused” when the person who he has been fighting all year slows down in front of him? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"lewis should be disqualified for deliberately crashing into Max,to get him out of the race.
This is not the first time this season Lewis has done this
I think you need to go to Specsavers "
Fortunately the stewards had been and saw it differently hence 10 seconds and 2 points on the young pup's license |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *dsmithMan
over a year ago
Loudwater |
"Plus, Max doesn't have anyone following him around carrying his helmet / scooter / air-con / umbrella / packed lunch / spare pair of undies for him "
Did you see Ted’s Notebook at the end of the race? The cameraman caught Max leaving the circuit with his entourage. Must have been about 7-8 of them around him, including his dad, carrying his bags.
That said massive Max here and really hope he picks up his first WDC next weekend. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *os19Man
over a year ago
Edmonton |
"Back in June I had £100 on Max at 17/20 so I stick with Max
I don’t bet, but, isn’t this a loss if he wins?"
. Not a loss If Max wins I get £185 so a profit of £85 or another way to look at it 85% interest a lot better than what I would get in my savings account |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Lewis had not been told that Max had been told to let him past when he caught up with him. He was therefore initially confused when Max slowed in the middle of a narrow section of the track and weaved (watch the on board shots for proof) [If Max had wanted a clean gifting back of the position he would have stayed and slowed on the racing line.]
Subsequently Lewis realised what was happening only for Max to brake hard (69 bar) which caused Lewis to hit him. Lewis then realised the DRS implication.
You could say Max's plan was to damage the front wing of Lewis's faster car so Lewis was forced to pit to change it and thus enable Max to win. Always bearing in mind a wing change pit stop would bring Lewis out behind Ocon and Bottas.
However, despite the masses of data coming from the car there is nothing about the thoughts of the drivers so it is wrong to suggest Max tried to deliberately damage Lewis's car. In the end Max's erratic driving and brake testing gave him a 10 second penalty.
A seven times world champion who has been throwing his car into incredibly tight spaces his entire career is “confused” when the person who he has been fighting all year slows down in front of him?"
I can see this. I think confused was just his media version. But he knows his history and he knows a wounded animal lashes out. He was more wary than confused. Max could VERY easily have been slowing due to a puncture, and Lewis is very risk averse to get caught up passing the first sniff of a gap (like Hill did with Schumi) because he knows Max will do something unorthodox - remember 1 DNF for Lewis and it’s game over. So he holds back to assess the situation, realises he’s being dicked about, and then Max does exactly what he’s worried about and drops anchor for a split second to cause one of two things: either he wanted Lewis to read end him knowing a front wing is going to break before a rear wing will, or he thought (being generous here as it’s a possibility but not likely) if he brakes Lewis would be forced to go past assuming he was at the side bit behind. To me, that’s lewis’ approach proven to be the right way of caution in uncharted territory. You can’t trust max when you pass him even when he’s told to let you. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Back in June I had £100 on Max at 17/20 so I stick with Max
I don’t bet, but, isn’t this a loss if he wins?
No if Max wins he gets £185
That's £85 for the win plus the original stake back"
Gotcha - thanks |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
Lewis had not been told that Max had been told to let him past when he caught up with him. He was therefore initially confused when Max slowed in the middle of a narrow section of the track and weaved (watch the on board shots for proof) [If Max had wanted a clean gifting back of the position he would have stayed and slowed on the racing line.]
Subsequently Lewis realised what was happening only for Max to brake hard (69 bar) which caused Lewis to hit him. Lewis then realised the DRS implication.
You could say Max's plan was to damage the front wing of Lewis's faster car so Lewis was forced to pit to change it and thus enable Max to win. Always bearing in mind a wing change pit stop would bring Lewis out behind Ocon and Bottas.
However, despite the masses of data coming from the car there is nothing about the thoughts of the drivers so it is wrong to suggest Max tried to deliberately damage Lewis's car. In the end Max's erratic driving and brake testing gave him a 10 second penalty.
A seven times world champion who has been throwing his car into incredibly tight spaces his entire career is “confused” when the person who he has been fighting all year slows down in front of him?
I can see this. I think confused was just his media version. But he knows his history and he knows a wounded animal lashes out. He was more wary than confused. Max could VERY easily have been slowing due to a puncture, and Lewis is very risk averse to get caught up passing the first sniff of a gap (like Hill did with Schumi) because he knows Max will do something unorthodox - remember 1 DNF for Lewis and it’s game over. So he holds back to assess the situation, realises he’s being dicked about, and then Max does exactly what he’s worried about and drops anchor for a split second to cause one of two things: either he wanted Lewis to read end him knowing a front wing is going to break before a rear wing will, or he thought (being generous here as it’s a possibility but not likely) if he brakes Lewis would be forced to go past assuming he was at the side bit behind. To me, that’s lewis’ approach proven to be the right way of caution in uncharted territory. You can’t trust max when you pass him even when he’s told to let you."
.
Couldn't have said bit better myself, Max is unpredictable |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
Lewis had not been told that Max had been told to let him past when he caught up with him. He was therefore initially confused when Max slowed in the middle of a narrow section of the track and weaved (watch the on board shots for proof) [If Max had wanted a clean gifting back of the position he would have stayed and slowed on the racing line.]
Subsequently Lewis realised what was happening only for Max to brake hard (69 bar) which caused Lewis to hit him. Lewis then realised the DRS implication.
You could say Max's plan was to damage the front wing of Lewis's faster car so Lewis was forced to pit to change it and thus enable Max to win. Always bearing in mind a wing change pit stop would bring Lewis out behind Ocon and Bottas.
However, despite the masses of data coming from the car there is nothing about the thoughts of the drivers so it is wrong to suggest Max tried to deliberately damage Lewis's car. In the end Max's erratic driving and brake testing gave him a 10 second penalty.
A seven times world champion who has been throwing his car into incredibly tight spaces his entire career is “confused” when the person who he has been fighting all year slows down in front of him?
I can see this. I think confused was just his media version. But he knows his history and he knows a wounded animal lashes out. He was more wary than confused. Max could VERY easily have been slowing due to a puncture, and Lewis is very risk averse to get caught up passing the first sniff of a gap (like Hill did with Schumi) because he knows Max will do something unorthodox - remember 1 DNF for Lewis and it’s game over. So he holds back to assess the situation, realises he’s being dicked about, and then Max does exactly what he’s worried about and drops anchor for a split second to cause one of two things: either he wanted Lewis to read end him knowing a front wing is going to break before a rear wing will, or he thought (being generous here as it’s a possibility but not likely) if he brakes Lewis would be forced to go past assuming he was at the side bit behind. To me, that’s lewis’ approach proven to be the right way of caution in uncharted territory. You can’t trust max when you pass him even when he’s told to let you."
“Holds back to assess the situation” - really?
So what you are saying he is wary of Max, he can’t trust him so his answer is to play safe and tuck himself right under Max’s gearbox?
Let’s just be honest - he didn’t want to overtake because he knew he would get DRSed and he didn’t want that. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
Max for me. Lewis went down massively in my estimation when he brought his political agenda Into the paddock. And with last weekend, saying we wasn't happy racing, because of the human rights issues, then don't race, but alas, money shows that's more important to him.. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
Annoyingly, predicted Max would win this year about 3 seasons ago- then forgot to place a long bet 
Still want him to win as he's probably the most exciting to watch, along with Lando and GR (when he gets a decent car under him...next season will hopefully be interesting)
Also, Hamilton has turned in to some sort of SJW in the last few years, seems to be since he turned vegan and decided to save the planet...until someone pointed out he owned a private jet. So happy to see him getting a less than easy season for a change...perks up the races, along with the recent slew of leftfield and old school tracks |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
“Holds back to assess the situation” - really?
So what you are saying he is wary of Max, he can’t trust him so his answer is to play safe and tuck himself right under Max’s gearbox?
Let’s just be honest - he didn’t want to overtake because he knew he would get DRSed and he didn’t want that."
Exactly what I’m thinking, worded differently. If he’s 2 cars back (and remember, they’re still going what, 79-80 mph here) then the only way he can be in an incident if if Max causes it. Max hit his brakes at 69 bars of pressure. Lewis only managed 50 despite being desperate to avoid a hit. Was he too close? In hindsight, yeah. Did Max see this and deliberately try to end his/their race? Also yes. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
Lewis had not been told that Max had been told to let him past when he caught up with him. He was therefore initially confused when Max slowed in the middle of a narrow section of the track and weaved (watch the on board shots for proof) [If Max had wanted a clean gifting back of the position he would have stayed and slowed on the racing line.]
Subsequently Lewis realised what was happening only for Max to brake hard (69 bar) which caused Lewis to hit him. Lewis then realised the DRS implication.
You could say Max's plan was to damage the front wing of Lewis's faster car so Lewis was forced to pit to change it and thus enable Max to win. Always bearing in mind a wing change pit stop would bring Lewis out behind Ocon and Bottas.
However, despite the masses of data coming from the car there is nothing about the thoughts of the drivers so it is wrong to suggest Max tried to deliberately damage Lewis's car. In the end Max's erratic driving and brake testing gave him a 10 second penalty.
A seven times world champion who has been throwing his car into incredibly tight spaces his entire career is “confused” when the person who he has been fighting all year slows down in front of him?"
Yes.
The reason is Verstappen does not normally slow down for anything except for VSC, double waved yellows, red flag or the end of the race. Well it was not the end of the race and in any of those other situations if Lewis had overtaken him he would have been penalised. So does that explain it? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Annoyingly, predicted Max would win this year about 3 seasons ago- then forgot to place a long bet
Still want him to win as he's probably the most exciting to watch, along with Lando and GR (when he gets a decent car under him...next season will hopefully be interesting)
Also, Hamilton has turned in to some sort of SJW in the last few years, seems to be since he turned vegan and decided to save the planet...until someone pointed out he owned a private jet. So happy to see him getting a less than easy season for a change...perks up the races, along with the recent slew of leftfield and old school tracks "
Not a single driver catches RyanAir to Jeddah mate |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Max for me. Lewis went down massively in my estimation when he brought his political agenda Into the paddock. And with last weekend, saying we wasn't happy racing, because of the human rights issues, then don't race, but alas, money shows that's more important to him.. "
Have you applied this logic to all the other drivers, or is it fine for you to prefer to support people who don’t give a shit? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
Lewis had not been told that Max had been told to let him past when he caught up with him. He was therefore initially confused when Max slowed in the middle of a narrow section of the track and weaved (watch the on board shots for proof) [If Max had wanted a clean gifting back of the position he would have stayed and slowed on the racing line.]
Subsequently Lewis realised what was happening only for Max to brake hard (69 bar) which caused Lewis to hit him. Lewis then realised the DRS implication.
You could say Max's plan was to damage the front wing of Lewis's faster car so Lewis was forced to pit to change it and thus enable Max to win. Always bearing in mind a wing change pit stop would bring Lewis out behind Ocon and Bottas.
However, despite the masses of data coming from the car there is nothing about the thoughts of the drivers so it is wrong to suggest Max tried to deliberately damage Lewis's car. In the end Max's erratic driving and brake testing gave him a 10 second penalty.
A seven times world champion who has been throwing his car into incredibly tight spaces his entire career is “confused” when the person who he has been fighting all year slows down in front of him?
Yes.
The reason is Verstappen does not normally slow down for anything except for VSC, double waved yellows, red flag or the end of the race. Well it was not the end of the race and in any of those other situations if Lewis had overtaken him he would have been penalised. So does that explain it? "
I always thought that racers raced to the flags and as there were no flags or VSC indicated I guess it doesn’t explain it.
It is just not credible to try to claim that two people fighting for a world championship would suddenly decide to drive like they were headed to Tesco’s. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Max is a dangerous driver. He could have killed Hamilton a few races ago ffs.
He has even hinted at retiring after winning his first and only world championship.
I am bias being British but even neutrals should be wanting Hamilton to win |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
I always thought that racers raced to the flags and as there were no flags or VSC indicated I guess it doesn’t explain it.
It is just not credible to try to claim that two people fighting for a world championship would suddenly decide to drive like they were headed to Tesco’s. "
If max had a slow, it’s very hard to pick that up in the 1.5 second gap that Lewis was behind and flag it. Frankly I’m surprised that they didn’t flag it.
But credible or not, they both slowed massively, gradually at first, and then erratically after. It’s what happened |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
I always thought that racers raced to the flags and as there were no flags or VSC indicated I guess it doesn’t explain it.
It is just not credible to try to claim that two people fighting for a world championship would suddenly decide to drive like they were headed to Tesco’s.
If max had a slow, it’s very hard to pick that up in the 1.5 second gap that Lewis was behind and flag it. Frankly I’m surprised that they didn’t flag it.
But credible or not, they both slowed massively, gradually at first, and then erratically after. It’s what happened "
F1 drivers are able to react to much tighter braking than 1.5 secs - if they couldn’t manage that then the first corner would only ever see two or three cars get past it  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
I always thought that racers raced to the flags and as there were no flags or VSC indicated I guess it doesn’t explain it.
It is just not credible to try to claim that two people fighting for a world championship would suddenly decide to drive like they were headed to Tesco’s.
If max had a slow, it’s very hard to pick that up in the 1.5 second gap that Lewis was behind and flag it. Frankly I’m surprised that they didn’t flag it.
But credible or not, they both slowed massively, gradually at first, and then erratically after. It’s what happened
F1 drivers are able to react to much tighter braking than 1.5 secs - if they couldn’t manage that then the first corner would only ever see two or three cars get past it "
you’re being disingenuous.. The 1.5 was the gap when Mac started to slow. The gap when Max brake checked was about 2 tenths. And was also a nice that is like the below the belt punch in boxing, the lowest move you can pull. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
I always thought that racers raced to the flags and as there were no flags or VSC indicated I guess it doesn’t explain it.
It is just not credible to try to claim that two people fighting for a world championship would suddenly decide to drive like they were headed to Tesco’s.
If max had a slow, it’s very hard to pick that up in the 1.5 second gap that Lewis was behind and flag it. Frankly I’m surprised that they didn’t flag it.
But credible or not, they both slowed massively, gradually at first, and then erratically after. It’s what happened
F1 drivers are able to react to much tighter braking than 1.5 secs - if they couldn’t manage that then the first corner would only ever see two or three cars get past it
you’re being disingenuous.. The 1.5 was the gap when Mac started to slow. The gap when Max brake checked was about 2 tenths. And was also a nice that is like the below the belt punch in boxing, the lowest move you can pull. "
was also a move* that is like… |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
I always thought that racers raced to the flags and as there were no flags or VSC indicated I guess it doesn’t explain it.
It is just not credible to try to claim that two people fighting for a world championship would suddenly decide to drive like they were headed to Tesco’s.
If max had a slow, it’s very hard to pick that up in the 1.5 second gap that Lewis was behind and flag it. Frankly I’m surprised that they didn’t flag it.
But credible or not, they both slowed massively, gradually at first, and then erratically after. It’s what happened
F1 drivers are able to react to much tighter braking than 1.5 secs - if they couldn’t manage that then the first corner would only ever see two or three cars get past it
you’re being disingenuous.. The 1.5 was the gap when Mac started to slow. The gap when Max brake checked was about 2 tenths. And was also a nice that is like the below the belt punch in boxing, the lowest move you can pull. "
You were the one who claimed it is very hard to see a slow down in 1.5 seconds not me - I simply observed that is not true
For what it is worth I do agree with you that a brake check is below the belt but I still stand by my initial point that Lewis should have been past him anyways and should not even have been in that position.
I personally don’t mind who wins next week. I am just glad that there has been a very good season. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
".
You were the one who claimed it is very hard to see a slow down in 1.5 seconds not me - I simply observed that is not true
For what it is worth I do agree with you that a brake check is below the belt but I still stand by my initial point that Lewis should have been past him anyways and should not even have been in that position.
I personally don’t mind who wins next week. I am just glad that there has been a very good season."
Imagine if Max was slowing for a puncture, Lewis hits him then says ‘not fair there were no flags’ the flags are there to enforce rules, but the drivers need situational awareness over and above being told when to be careful by a process of someone spotting something (hopefully) on TV, making a judgement, and pressing a button. Etc. I still think he was right to be cautious, Max tried to throw the championship at that moment.
As long as there’s no race changing contact next week, I’ll accept whoever wins as being the best this year over the course of the year, But still think Max has much to learn win or lose. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
Lewis had not been told that Max had been told to let him past when he caught up with him. He was therefore initially confused when Max slowed in the middle of a narrow section of the track and weaved (watch the on board shots for proof) [If Max had wanted a clean gifting back of the position he would have stayed and slowed on the racing line.]
Subsequently Lewis realised what was happening only for Max to brake hard (69 bar) which caused Lewis to hit him. Lewis then realised the DRS implication.
You could say Max's plan was to damage the front wing of Lewis's faster car so Lewis was forced to pit to change it and thus enable Max to win. Always bearing in mind a wing change pit stop would bring Lewis out behind Ocon and Bottas.
However, despite the masses of data coming from the car there is nothing about the thoughts of the drivers so it is wrong to suggest Max tried to deliberately damage Lewis's car. In the end Max's erratic driving and brake testing gave him a 10 second penalty.
A seven times world champion who has been throwing his car into incredibly tight spaces his entire career is “confused” when the person who he has been fighting all year slows down in front of him?
Yes.
The reason is Verstappen does not normally slow down for anything except for VSC, double waved yellows, red flag or the end of the race. Well it was not the end of the race and in any of those other situations if Lewis had overtaken him he would have been penalised. So does that explain it?
I always thought that racers raced to the flags and as there were no flags or VSC indicated I guess it doesn’t explain it.
It is just not credible to try to claim that two people fighting for a world championship would suddenly decide to drive like they were headed to Tesco’s. "
The concentration required to drive that circuit means flags can be missed. Lewis was investigated for missing one in practice.
But for me the key issue was Max was not on the racing line but in the middle if the circuit. He WANTED Lewis to slow down to an almost stop so he could repass him on the straight. Had he been where he should have been Lewis would gave passed him flat out. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
The reason is Verstappen does not normally slow down for anything except for VSC, double waved yellows, red flag or the end of the race. Well it was not the end of the race and in any of those other situations if Lewis had overtaken him he would have been penalised. So does that explain it?
I always thought that racers raced to the flags and as there were no flags or VSC indicated I guess it doesn’t explain it.
It is just not credible to try to claim that two people fighting for a world championship would suddenly decide to drive like they were headed to Tesco’s.
The concentration required to drive that circuit means flags can be missed. Lewis was investigated for missing one in practice.
But for me the key issue was Max was not on the racing line but in the middle if the circuit. He WANTED Lewis to slow down to an almost stop so he could repass him on the straight. Had he been where he should have been Lewis would gave passed him flat out. "
He wanted Lewis to slow down almost to a stop?
That’s made my day. Thanks for giving me a smile before I turn my light out |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
At this point you've got two completely different drivers out there.
Hamilton is (often) calm, pragmatic,
composed and strategic.
Max is more the fiery, impulsive and precocious driver of the two. This is what makes Max so entertaining to watch, but it is also his biggest weakness.
It makes their rivalry fascinating. Both fantastic talents.
In a straight (clean) race in Abu Dhabi, I'd go with Hamilton because I feel he is less error prone.
But this is Formula 1 and genuinely this could go any way, thrilling conclusion.
I'm going for Hamilton. Head and heart. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"At this point you've got two completely different drivers out there.
Hamilton is (often) calm, pragmatic,
composed and strategic.
Max is more the fiery, impulsive and precocious driver of the two. This is what makes Max so entertaining to watch, but it is also his biggest weakness.
It makes their rivalry fascinating. Both fantastic talents.
In a straight (clean) race in Abu Dhabi, I'd go with Hamilton because I feel he is less error prone.
But this is Formula 1 and genuinely this could go any way, thrilling conclusion.
I'm going for Hamilton. Head and heart. "
This is a very thought out point of view
From my perspective it's is why i don't like Lewis
I am a self confessed Senna fan who drove by instinct where as Prost was always weighing the odds so was very boring to watch.
Lewis problems have come this year when he tried to be impulsive, hence Silverstone when he could have killed Max as so many have been keen to point out that Max could have done the same at a much much slower corner.
A racer should drive by instinct, react in milliseconds, but that is my opinion
Thanks for the comment above although i beg to differ on the result |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *akie32Man
over a year ago
winchester |
those that say lewis took out max at silverstone, really need to have a look at the facts.
Max is a very quick driver, but like his father is a dirty player, if he cant win he risks it all to take out the faster car, this is the problem with modern f1, the cars are too safe, if you had tried that in the 70s you would be dead, and while this is a good thing, it does affect the drivers attitude, if they knew they might die, would they make an unsafe move?
Max has allot to learn, problem is he wont, as his mentors, dad, horner etc, always tell him how great he is, and never real him in, its going to end in tears.
as to who will win, who knows, i just hope its a fair fight, its been a long time since another car//driver has been able to take the fight to merc. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Lewis had not been told that Max had been told to let him past when he caught up with him. He was therefore initially confused when Max slowed in the middle of a narrow section of the track and weaved (watch the on board shots for proof) [If Max had wanted a clean gifting back of the position he would have stayed and slowed on the racing line.]
Subsequently Lewis realised what was happening only for Max to brake hard (69 bar) which caused Lewis to hit him. Lewis then realised the DRS implication.
You could say Max's plan was to damage the front wing of Lewis's faster car so Lewis was forced to pit to change it and thus enable Max to win. Always bearing in mind a wing change pit stop would bring Lewis out behind Ocon and Bottas.
However, despite the masses of data coming from the car there is nothing about the thoughts of the drivers so it is wrong to suggest Max tried to deliberately damage Lewis's car. In the end Max's erratic driving and brake testing gave him a 10 second penalty.
A seven times world champion who has been throwing his car into incredibly tight spaces his entire career is “confused” when the person who he has been fighting all year slows down in front of him?
I can see this. I think confused was just his media version. But he knows his history and he knows a wounded animal lashes out. He was more wary than confused. Max could VERY easily have been slowing due to a puncture, and Lewis is very risk averse to get caught up passing the first sniff of a gap (like Hill did with Schumi) because he knows Max will do something unorthodox - remember 1 DNF for Lewis and it’s game over. So he holds back to assess the situation, realises he’s being dicked about, and then Max does exactly what he’s worried about and drops anchor for a split second to cause one of two things: either he wanted Lewis to read end him knowing a front wing is going to break before a rear wing will, or he thought (being generous here as it’s a possibility but not likely) if he brakes Lewis would be forced to go past assuming he was at the side bit behind. To me, that’s lewis’ approach proven to be the right way of caution in uncharted territory. You can’t trust max when you pass him even when he’s told to let you..
Couldn't have said bit better myself, Max is unpredictable"
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *akie32Man
over a year ago
winchester |
"I'd love to see Lewis win again... He deserves it, its one of the few records left. As Shuey said, records are there to be broken. Give Lewis no.8, then fair game next season, maybe, if he learns to keep his head and stay calm Max can win then. After that, Russell's its turn!! "
not sure about Russel, worked with both him and Norris, and if he can get good drive then my money is on norris, hes wone everything, just about, hes ever raced in, Russel is good, and looks like he might have the right car, but with the new reg for next year, its anyones guess, but back to back i would bet on lando |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"lewis should be disqualified for deliberately crashing into Max,to get him out of the race.
This is not the first time this season Lewis has done this"
You are talking bollocks chap. Why would Lewis jeopardise his championship by crashing into the back of his rival?
Max applied the brakes and Lewis went into the back of him.
Why was Max found guilty and given a penalty for that very incident? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *m3232Man
over a year ago
maidenhead |
"Max is a dangerous driver. He could have killed Hamilton a few races ago ffs.
He has even hinted at retiring after winning his first and only world championship.
I am bias being British but even neutrals should be wanting Hamilton to win"
You missed silverstone then. That was the most dangerous place to do what Hamilton did and you don’t mention that. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I'd love to see Lewis win again... He deserves it, its one of the few records left. As Shuey said, records are there to be broken. Give Lewis no.8, then fair game next season, maybe, if he learns to keep his head and stay calm Max can win then. After that, Russell's its turn!!
not sure about Russel, worked with both him and Norris, and if he can get good drive then my money is on norris, hes wone everything, just about, hes ever raced in, Russel is good, and looks like he might have the right car, but with the new reg for next year, its anyones guess, but back to back i would bet on lando"
Yeah, Norris definitely another one to watch... Russell was more down to hopeful thinking!  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I want Lewis to win and will be watching avidly. Can see Max taking him out though, if it looks like he (Max) isnt going to win, so he wins on the races won rule"
People soon forget
Lewis took Max out this year
Bottas took Max out this Year
So everyone saying he is eratic dangerous but both mercs have taken him out |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I want Lewis to win and will be watching avidly. Can see Max taking him out though, if it looks like he (Max) isnt going to win, so he wins on the races won rule
People soon forget
Lewis took Max out this year
Bottas took Max out this Year
So everyone saying he is eratic dangerous but both mercs have taken him out "
That's one incident and it show how dumb Max is. Last night I was catching up on the events of the day on Sky F1 and Karun was was showing videos of how may times they've been close to crushing. On 5 occasions Max has driven Lewis of the track and had his car on top of Lewis's. Lewis has only been "predominantly" responsible for 1 crush, the one at Silverstone. If Max was smart he would have back off in Silverstone like Lewis has been doing on many occasions and he might have finished 2 and would have got 18 points instead of 0. Max doesn't know when to back down,he's not smart enough to thing he can gain the position back. If he had backed down he'd be 18 points ahead |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
Will watch Sunday race, go with Lewis, consider Max to be immature and a bad loser, but so many are immature maybe there should be a lower age limit before embarking on F1 in order to develop that maturity.
Well just my tuppence worth, guess I am just getting old. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *os19Man
over a year ago
Edmonton |
I am not the most knowledgeable on F1 but I believe Max has won one race more than Lewis.If Max or Max’s teammate was to take out Lewis and Lewis DNF then Max would take the title by virtue of one more race win.I believe this is a tactic used by Michael Schumacher on Damon Hill when he won the title and also on Jacques Villeneuve which on that occasion didn’t work.As Max is considered error prone when under pressure I think this is a tactic he could use and get away with. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I am not the most knowledgeable on F1 but I believe Max has won one race more than Lewis.If Max or Max’s teammate was to take out Lewis and Lewis DNF then Max would take the title by virtue of one more race win.I believe this is a tactic used by Michael Schumacher on Damon Hill when he won the title and also on Jacques Villeneuve which on that occasion didn’t work.As Max is considered error prone when under pressure I think this is a tactic he could use and get away with."
I think he will do this if he gets the chance, i hope he doesn't get away with it though. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I want Lewis to win and will be watching avidly. Can see Max taking him out though, if it looks like he (Max) isnt going to win, so he wins on the races won rule
People soon forget
Lewis took Max out this year
Bottas took Max out this Year
So everyone saying he is eratic dangerous but both mercs have taken him out
That's one incident and it show how dumb Max is. Last night I was catching up on the events of the day on Sky F1 and Karun was was showing videos of how may times they've been close to crushing. On 5 occasions Max has driven Lewis of the track and had his car on top of Lewis's. Lewis has only been "predominantly" responsible for 1 crush, the one at Silverstone. If Max was smart he would have back off in Silverstone like Lewis has been doing on many occasions and he might have finished 2 and would have got 18 points instead of 0. Max doesn't know when to back down,he's not smart enough to thing he can gain the position back. If he had backed down he'd be 18 points ahead "
So Lewis backs out !!
He could have backed out at Imola just like others had been shown to do and move over, when he hit the wrong button at the start of race, another race when he over cooked it and shot past two or three cars in front at turn one restart leaving him at the back of the grid.
Everyone is keen to paint Lewis as this saintly figure when he could have been on a whole lot more points if he had been more careful.
As for Max
3 times taken out twice by Merc's ok one he could have backed away from but he is a racer
I tyre blowout which pitched him into the wall, you could say come and change it, just like Lewis did at Silverstone only he was lucky and got half a lap on flat tyre.
At least two wrecked engines he could have done nothing about, and yet he still has more race wins than Lewis.
I am not saying Max is perfect far from it, young goes for any gap, won't let anyone pass without a fight.
But that is what makes a racer
Just trying to even things up a little Lewis isn't so perfect as people are making out if you look at the season as a whole |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *os19Man
over a year ago
Edmonton |
"I am not the most knowledgeable on F1 but I believe Max has won one race more than Lewis.If Max or Max’s teammate was to take out Lewis and Lewis DNF then Max would take the title by virtue of one more race win.I believe this is a tactic used by Michael Schumacher on Damon Hill when he won the title and also on Jacques Villeneuve which on that occasion didn’t work.As Max is considered error prone when under pressure I think this is a tactic he could use and get away with.
I think he will do this if he gets the chance, i hope he doesn't get away with it though."
. I agree it’s not the way to win but if Max’s teammate was to take Lewis out what could the F1 rule makers do other than deduct points from the constructors championships Max by not been involved could not be charged could he. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Whichever side of the coin your fan loyalty falls, let’s just hope it’s decided by one of them finishing in front of the other, rather than stewards calls, being in the walls, or either of them breaking down. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Putting aside the BLM
Lewis will be champion
From where he started he has proven his skills. He may sound full of himself but in person he is probably different. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *akie32Man
over a year ago
winchester |
"Whichever side of the coin your fan loyalty falls, let’s just hope it’s decided by one of them finishing in front of the other, rather than stewards calls, being in the walls, or either of them breaking down."
this is what most hoped, predictably it didnt happen, thats what happens when you sell a sport to an american media company unfortunatly, get used to it |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Bet all the lewis fans are fuming.. if the shoe was on the other foot, they'd be ecstatic wouldn't they.. Mercedes can eat some humble pie!!!"
Am not a 'fan' of the sport, do loosely follow it and this season it's been a bit more note worthy with the battle between the two of them but I think if anyone is a fan of the sport they should be wary of about what went on yesterday in relation to Massi changing his mind how he did ..
Yes it is allowed a one circuit race which was possibly better as a TV spectacle but it was inherently unfair to whomever was in the lead car at that time, next time that could be the other way round and it would be as equally unfair..
If it was done because one team principal got in the race directors head, that has bigger issues for the whole thing as a sport..
If Massi fucked up, which he's unlikely to fess up to that can be addressed by the governing body sorting the rules out..
I suppose it's down to what people want, a sport which has rules which many of the spectators will not bother understanding but will watch as it is at least true to its own ethos and rules etc..
Or a spectacle for TV where the rules which are set by the governing body can at the peak of a viewing figure spike be altered to make it more interesting regardless of the fundamentals of sport..
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"lewis should be disqualified for deliberately crashing into Max,to get him out of the race.
This is not the first time this season Lewis has done this"
Well said he gets away with shit.
I am nkt into formular ome now its too safe, tbey have taken the thrill out of it. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *aiseiMan
over a year ago
Birmingham |
"Bet all the lewis fans are fuming.. if the shoe was on the other foot, they'd be ecstatic wouldn't they.. Mercedes can eat some humble pie!!!"
I may be in a distinct minority here, but even being Team LH I’m not annoyed at the outcome.
I’m gutted for Lewis, of course; to be that far into a race and clearly ahead for so long, for it to fall away in the last lap due to chance circumstances and some odd decision making, is a real kick in the nuts.
But this is racing and shit happens.
For me, both Max and Lewis drove superbly as they both have across the season (controversies aside). Checo did a stellar job as Max’s wingman in Abu Dhabi….this is the first place it went wrong for Merc. Where was Bottas? Nowhere useful.
The other point is Merc’s strategy yesterday. It seemed to be totally reliant on Lewis sailing off into the distance and staying there. Sure, he did just that from the get-go, but where was the cover for any incident? It didn’t feel like there was any.
RB managed to pit Max three times in reaction to race conditions and still managed to keep him a few cars away (albeit many seconds behind). One SC and all that was gone, as can always happen.
I get the track position advantage and that RB could potentially take a little more risk, but it still feels like Merc had a bit of a ‘hail Mary’ on Lewis keeping his tyre and lead intact regardless of other influences.
RB utilised the race conditions better overall, it feels….although another Masi Mental Moment did gift them something wonderful. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Bet all the lewis fans are fuming.. if the shoe was on the other foot, they'd be ecstatic wouldn't they.. Mercedes can eat some humble pie!!!"
Not especially. I’m actually happy for Max and RBR. Incidents and silly arguments aside, he’s been immense through the year, and deserves his title. I also think it will be the making of him and turn him into a more mature/responsible driver.
Roll on the next couple of years. Let’s hope Merc’ haven’t got too much of a jump on everyone else again, and are streets ahead for a few seasons. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Wasn’t really into it. But when I saw Lewis wear that helmet in the last two races.
Lewis.
Bit of a token gesture.
Not racing in Saudi would have been more powerful. "
then he would have def lost the title, and the millions that go with it. Money rules at the end of the day.. futile gesture.. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Lewis all day long gutted that Massi made the mistake not to finish the race under the safety car. I can understand but should have red flagged it 5 laps from the end Lewis changes tyres to soft 5 lap sprint race to championship. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Lewis all day long gutted that Massi made the mistake not to finish the race under the safety car. I can understand but should have red flagged it 5 laps from the end Lewis changes tyres to soft 5 lap sprint race to championship. "
I agree with hindsight that a red flag would have worked well for Lewis. Then Red Bull would be moaning that virtually every other time a car had to be cleared it would be done under a safety car.
I do feel for Massi. He had a terrible decision to make. He was always going to upset one side or other.
However Lewis will come back next year and give Max a good run for the 2022 championship. I also suspect he would appreciate not having the commitments that the F1 World Champion has on his plate for the next 12 months. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
Merc have dropped their appeal on the basis the fia get their house in order
Probably the right call, would have been wrong to remove the title from Max, and I don't think Lewis would want that.
A wrong decision was made which gave Max the win & the title. By the sounds of it the fia are agreeing with that so Lewis can be comfortable that he was just on the wrong side of that decision.
Time to move on, fix it before next year then go racing |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Lets hope Lewis got paid enough for runner up that he can afford a decent haircut."
Shall we assume that your lack of any pictures at all is indicative of how terrible your haircut is which is a result of you being poor? No? Oh. How strange. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Merc have dropped their appeal on the basis the fia get their house in order
Probably the right call, would have been wrong to remove the title from Max, and I don't think Lewis would want that.
A wrong decision was made which gave Max the win & the title. By the sounds of it the fia are agreeing with that so Lewis can be comfortable that he was just on the wrong side of that decision.
Time to move on, fix it before next year then go racing "
That's not how I read it. The FIA said that misunderstandings by the teams, drivers and fans based on the communications between the race director and the teams have led to the tarnishing of due celebrations of Max's first title win. I think what will happen is that they will publish why they took that action during the race and maybe clarify the rules going forward. I don't think the FIA think a wrong decision was made. Mercedes have probably dropped it because it wasn't a battle they could win and was just going to tarnish things even further. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *usie pTV/TS
over a year ago
taunton |
It was the best season for a very long time and exciting to the end, was a mistake by Mercedes not to pull Lewis in for tyres that cost Lewis the title but as usual its easy to be wise after the event. Would have been a real let down if the season finished under safety car. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
» Add a new message to this topic
