FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > brush with the law
brush with the law
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Good luck if you do go to court  | |||
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"Crumbs that car is nothing but bad luck" tell me about it. Seriously thinking of changing it | |||
"what did you have in the trunk ? .chains whips a body? his wife "I had my goalkeeping kit on it plus my sports bag and laptop. | |||
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"I don't know why he wanted to check your spare tyre There's no obligation to carry one. ,.. there are many manufactures that don't provide them in new cars., As for the speeding , he's going to need more than his word, "not quit right no requirement to have a spare correct but if you have one it must be legal many arent especaily on older cars.sounds like he was a bit of a twunt tho | |||
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"Did you get his number? If they haven't got any evidence from speed guns or in car video I can't see how it will hold up to be fair, especially if you passed cameras on that journey and didn't get flashed by them " People have been convicted of speeding based on the evidence of a policeman walking along the road. The system stinks sometimes. Courts will usually believe the word of a policeman, even if it's ridiculous and a pack of lies, over a member of the public. Evidence from a speed camera can be challenged if the camera doesn't have a current calibration certificate. Are policemen calibrated? Do they have certificates? It's insane. | |||
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"This is a bit of a rant so sorry. Yesterday I was driving on my way to hockey,and I was going at the correct speed. I passed a police car going in the opposite direction. They promptly did a u turn and pulled me over. The officer approached my car, and claimed I had been speeding. I knew that I hadn't as there are always mobile cameras on this road, so I always go slow. I replied that I hadn't, and asked what basis he had used to my speed, seeing as we were going in different directions. The officer was rude, and just kept saying I was speeding. He said I was going to be reported for speeding, to which I asked what basis he had used to determine my speed. He wouldn't tell me. Then after he had run all checks, and couldn'. Get me for no insurance, mot, or license he told me my attitude was wrong and that he would find something else to report me for. Now I am always polite and curtious, but was a little frustrated at one being accused of something I hadn't done, and two he was making me late. After preceding to check each tyre, making me turn my lights on and making sure they worked, he wanted to check my spare tyre. At this point I was annoyed and refused. I had a lot of stuff in the boot and really felt it was over the top. Seeing as all tyres were legal it was in my eyes unreasonable to assume my spare would be illegal. So I will be due a date in court to contest my speeding due to lack of evidence. Rant over. " Call that a rant?!!  | |||
 i hope the judge fucking suspends him for waisting police time on there side | |||
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"This is a bit of a rant so sorry. Yesterday I was driving on my way to hockey,and I was going at the correct speed. I passed a police car going in the opposite direction. They promptly did a u turn and pulled me over. The officer approached my car, and claimed I had been speeding. I knew that I hadn't as there are always mobile cameras on this road, so I always go slow. I replied that I hadn't, and asked what basis he had used to my speed, seeing as we were going in different directions. The officer was rude, and just kept saying I was speeding. He said I was going to be reported for speeding, to which I asked what basis he had used to determine my speed. He wouldn't tell me. Then after he had run all checks, and couldn'. Get me for no insurance, mot, or license he told me my attitude was wrong and that he would find something else to report me for. Now I am always polite and curtious, but was a little frustrated at one being accused of something I hadn't done, and two he was making me late. After preceding to check each tyre, making me turn my lights on and making sure they worked, he wanted to check my spare tyre. At this point I was annoyed and refused. I had a lot of stuff in the boot and really felt it was over the top. Seeing as all tyres were legal it was in my eyes unreasonable to assume my spare would be illegal. So I will be due a date in court to contest my speeding due to lack of evidence. Rant over. Call that a rant?!! "It was a polite one. I'm always polite.... Other than in bed. | |||
" Evidence from a speed camera can be challenged if the camera doesn't have a current calibration certificate. Are policemen calibrated? Do they have certificates? It's insane." A policeman will need secondary evidence to prosecute... thats either: A second officer, A calibrated speedo. Vascar or Providia system in the car. Laser or Radar gun (radar not used that often now) If the officer was in a local beat car (focus, astra type) then very very unlikely to have VASCAR/Providia. They cant use lasers while moving and cant use speedo when going the opposite direction. Unlikely but possible, the officer was a Special Constable... who was having a bad day and a minority of them do have a habit of getting above their station and like to 'threaten' in this manner. (from experience) Steve | |||
" People have been convicted of speeding based on the evidence of a policeman walking along the road. The system stinks sometimes. Courts will usually believe the word of a policeman, even if it's ridiculous and a pack of lies, over a member of the public. Evidence from a speed camera can be challenged if the camera doesn't have a current calibration certificate. Are policemen calibrated? Do they have certificates? It's insane." Rubbish you only need two policeman together or one policeman was a type approved device although he must be stationary to carty out checks. theres a device called vascar that is used to follow people although i dont think thisworks going in the opposite direction try pepipoo.com foradvice | |||
" Evidence from a speed camera can be challenged if the camera doesn't have a current calibration certificate. Are policemen calibrated? Do they have certificates? It's insane. A policeman will need secondary evidence to prosecute... thats either: A second officer, A calibrated speedo. Vascar or Providia system in the car. Laser or Radar gun (radar not used that often now) If the officer was in a local beat car (focus, astra type) then very very unlikely to have VASCAR/Providia. They cant use lasers while moving and cant use speedo when going the opposite direction. Unlikely but possible, the officer was a Special Constable... who was having a bad day and a minority of them do have a habit of getting above their station and like to 'threaten' in this manner. (from experience) Steve" I personally know someone who was taken to court and convicted on the word of a single police officer walking through the village he was driving through. At the time everyone, including two solicitors, sad the case would never get to court. It did and he was found guilty. I also know someone who was found guilty of jumping a red light, (when he hadn't), based on the word of a single officer in a panda car, (no recording equipment or similar). It doesn't always work like it should. | |||
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" . theres a device called vascar that is used to follow people although i dont think thisworks going in the opposite direction " From what I gather they do, but only if there are markers on the road... you know the white dots or squares you see on some roads? They are a set distance apart and VASCAR times the offending vehicle over that set distance. However, would be really hard if officer was heading other way and alone..... | |||
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"spare tyre is not even part of your mot! that i know off " it isn't a requirment if one is carried it must be legal as must any other acceories fitted to a vehicle be they spotlights foglights etc they must work correctly and within the law,or its a fail .under the new MOT regs any non standard items fitted lights wheels spoilers bodykit etc will require the vehicle to undergo a more stringent test and also proof that incurance company has been informed | |||
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"and this is why people hate the police.. little pricks like that who think it is acceptable to harass people when they know they are in the wrong I get fed up of the police around here, the amount of terrible driving i see, people on mobile phones, doing their makeup, drifting about not paying attention, and driving in a generally dangerous manner, yet all they care about is hiding in bushes trying to catch people for speeding.... its pathetic... they wont come out to a robbery or when kids have been flashed by a serial flasher on their way home from the shops in broad daylight(as happened to me and my friends when i was younger) because they don't have the resources to attend such trivial matters, yet they can send 4 officers and a van to sit in a bush all freaking day to catch a few people speeding... its a joke! and before anyone says its about road safety, its not about safety its about revenue and lining peoples pockets... " 
I was brought up to respect the police, but coming from a council estate where I have had officers treat me like shit until I mentioned I was in full time employment and having my Dad having to attend court because some woman up the street from me heard...yes heard...him key her car (from her bedroom, with closed windows) has taught me that the vast majority of police officers in my area are bullies who like to waste tax payers money. My Dad's case was thrown out of court for lack of evidence (because there was none!!), but the stress it caused him and my Mum was horrible at the time.
Just the other day I was behind a police van that ignored an oncoming mini bus driver that was on his mobile phone with a bus full of kids, and the officer then drove through a red light...law unto themselves and really irritate the shit out of me! | |||
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"I have also threatened to go down the social media/press route should he not rescind the ticket in 7 days" Never, ever threaten to do something, just do it 
Failure to carry out a threat when one's bluff is called, can be somewhat embarrassing  | |||
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"....... Yesterday I was driving on my way to hockey,and I was going at the correct speed. I passed a police car going in the opposite direction. They promptly did a u turn and pulled me over....... " In my mind, this is key. Why did they do a u-turn? Police cars travel in the opposite direction to MILLIONS of cars every day and whether he is a good cop or a bad cop - something motivated him to make that u-turn when for millions of others they don't. No excuses for his arse holey behaviour but you kind of expect that once they actually get you in their sights and you the focus of their attention. | |||
"what did you have in the trunk ? .chains whips a body? his wife I had my goalkeeping kit on it plus my sports bag and laptop.
"big hugz hunk | |||
"This is a bit of a rant so sorry. Yesterday I was driving on my way to hockey,and I was going at the correct speed. I passed a police car going in the opposite direction. They promptly did a u turn and pulled me over. The officer approached my car, and claimed I had been speeding. I knew that I hadn't as there are always mobile cameras on this road, so I always go slow. I replied that I hadn't, and asked what basis he had used to my speed, seeing as we were going in different directions. The officer was rude, and just kept saying I was speeding. He said I was going to be reported for speeding, to which I asked what basis he had used to determine my speed. He wouldn't tell me. Then after he had run all checks, and couldn'. Get me for no insurance, mot, or license he told me my attitude was wrong and that he would find something else to report me for. Now I am always polite and curtious, but was a little frustrated at one being accused of something I hadn't done, and two he was making me late. After preceding to check each tyre, making me turn my lights on and making sure they worked, he wanted to check my spare tyre. At this point I was annoyed and refused. I had a lot of stuff in the boot and really felt it was over the top. Seeing as all tyres were legal it was in my eyes unreasonable to assume my spare would be illegal. So I will be due a date in court to contest my speeding due to lack of evidence. Rant over. " As of this year, spare tyres are not checked anymore. | |||
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"Cut the guys some slack ... I'm sure you've all seen the cops tv program's and how much crap these guys take . D*unks in the street -car thieves - football hooligans and rioters . I'm sure most of you wouldn't like to do their job, I know I could never take a mouthfull of abuse without lashing out !!! "oh and i suppose no copper in England has ever once lashed out at anyone anywhere ever,'that broken jaw your honour?' 'well of course he fell down the stairs guv,honest to god he did,on his way down i clearly heard him say,oh dear i seem to have slipped how clumsy of me' | |||
"Cut the guys some slack ... I'm sure you've all seen the cops tv program's and how much crap these guys take . D*unks in the street -car thieves - football hooligans and rioters . I'm sure most of you wouldn't like to do their job, I know I could never take a mouthfull of abuse without lashing out !!! "so because he has had a shit day, someone who has done nothing wrong should sit back and let the copper take it out on them?? | |||
"Cut the guys some slack ... I'm sure you've all seen the cops tv program's and how much crap these guys take . D*unks in the street -car thieves - football hooligans and rioters . I'm sure most of you wouldn't like to do their job, I know I could never take a mouthfull of abuse without lashing out !!! "One would think this should make them appreciate the polite, law-abiding people even more. | |||
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"If it goes to court it will be judged fairly on the evidence presented and nobody’s word will be valued above your own." Not necessarily true. If you've not experienced it, great, but it happens. The person convicted of jumping a red light with no evidence but the (untrue) word of a lone police officer is a member of my family. That's hardly an internet scare story or a Chinese whisper. | |||
"If it goes to court it will be judged fairly on the evidence presented and nobody’s word will be valued above your own. Not necessarily true. If you've not experienced it, great, but it happens. The person convicted of jumping a red light with no evidence but the (untrue) word of a lone police officer is a member of my family. That's hardly an internet scare story or a Chinese whisper." Frankly I don't believe you. You are likley to be biased towards a member of your family, god knows how many mothers of murderers don't believe their sons have committed atrocities. People tent to blindly believe family out of loyalty. The courts act on fact presented, there would be no jury for a traffic offence, evidence is evaluated and judgements made on evidence not one persons word against another's there is always additional evidence that comes into play for the cps to take it to court if the person charged pleads not guilty. | |||
"If it goes to court it will be judged fairly on the evidence presented and nobody’s word will be valued above your own. Not necessarily true. If you've not experienced it, great, but it happens. The person convicted of jumping a red light with no evidence but the (untrue) word of a lone police officer is a member of my family. That's hardly an internet scare story or a Chinese whisper. Frankly I don't believe you. You are likley to be biased towards a member of your family, god knows how many mothers of murderers don't believe their sons have committed atrocities. People tent to blindly believe family out of loyalty. The courts act on fact presented, there would be no jury for a traffic offence, evidence is evaluated and judgements made on evidence not one persons word against another's there is always additional evidence that comes into play for the cps to take it to court if the person charged pleads not guilty." You are free to believe what you like. It still happens. It sounds as though until you actually experience it, you will be happy to continue to deny it. Ask on Pistonheads, or Scoobynet or any other car enthusiasts' board and you will hear all sorts of accounts of courts taking the word of a policeman over that of a member of the public, and of police making mistakes or telling outright lies. Some of the accused are guilty and trying to claim otherwise, of course, but some are quite genuinely innocent. I'd love to live in this wonderful land where all courts and police officers are fair and just, and everyone is innocent until proven guilty. Unfortunately this is the real world. In court defendants usually have to prove themselves to be innocent. Miscarriages of justice happen, but it's usually only the serious cases we hear about. If mistakes and injustice occur in big cases, it would be naive to assume it doesn't happen in more minor cases too. I'd quote some of the experiences of people I know (in real life, personally), from some of the car boards, but to anyone else on here that would be "internet hearsay" so there's no point. I hope you don't have to learn first hand, or by seeing someone you know treated unjustly, just how poor the system can be sometimes. It's easy and comfortable to believe in a judicial utopia until you find out the hard way. As for being biased towards my family member, in this case there's no need for bias. I know with absolute certainty he didn't do what he was accused and found guilty of. He's a mature, responsible, honest individual, so it's not even as if he makes an unreliable witness. | |||
"If it goes to court it will be judged fairly on the evidence presented and nobody’s word will be valued above your own. Not necessarily true. If you've not experienced it, great, but it happens. The person convicted of jumping a red light with no evidence but the (untrue) word of a lone police officer is a member of my family. That's hardly an internet scare story or a Chinese whisper. Frankly I don't believe you. You are likley to be biased towards a member of your family, god knows how many mothers of murderers don't believe their sons have committed atrocities. People tent to blindly believe family out of loyalty. The courts act on fact presented, there would be no jury for a traffic offence, evidence is evaluated and judgements made on evidence not one persons word against another's there is always additional evidence that comes into play for the cps to take it to court if the person charged pleads not guilty. You are free to believe what you like. It still happens. It sounds as though until you actually experience it, you will be happy to continue to deny it. Ask on Pistonheads, or Scoobynet or any other car enthusiasts' board and you will hear all sorts of accounts of courts taking the word of a policeman over that of a member of the public, and of police making mistakes or telling outright lies. Some of the accused are guilty and trying to claim otherwise, of course, but some are quite genuinely innocent. I'd love to live in this wonderful land where all courts and police officers are fair and just, and everyone is innocent until proven guilty. Unfortunately this is the real world. In court defendants usually have to prove themselves to be innocent. Miscarriages of justice happen, but it's usually only the serious cases we hear about. If mistakes and injustice occur in big cases, it would be naive to assume it doesn't happen in more minor cases too. I'd quote some of the experiences of people I know (in real life, personally), from some of the car boards, but to anyone else on here that would be "internet hearsay" so there's no point. I hope you don't have to learn first hand, or by seeing someone you know treated unjustly, just how poor the system can be sometimes. It's easy and comfortable to believe in a judicial utopia until you find out the hard way. As for being biased towards my family member, in this case there's no need for bias. I know with absolute certainty he didn't do what he was accused and found guilty of. He's a mature, responsible, honest individual, so it's not even as if he makes an unreliable witness." The fact is I don’t believe, also you say “I know with absolute certainty he didn't do it” but unless you were there you clearly don’t you are taking his word for it. If you really think a family member has not told you the full truth over an incident at some point you are not on this planet, people get embarrassed, they don’t disclose the facts. Did you attend the case, did your brother? Did you actually hear the evidence presented? You also quote forums form websites that frankly are full of people who will say 2never did it gov” yet openly brag on every other thread how fast they achieve on public roads . Its a standing joke everyone in prison never did it. You have no facts, not brought up any links to substantiated events, and clearly have never had anything what so ever to do with the Judicial system personally in this country and as for first hand well you haven’t have you. The facts are and we are talking hard facts. Its not trial by jury its more often than not a single or three magistrates. They are assessed on how they judge a case to make sure they are doing things right. They have no vested interests they hear the facts. They will then assess the facts and if the individual is proven guilty without any doubt and that’s how it works in England if proven guilty (you do not have to prove yourself innocent) then they will be convicted. However prior to this the CPS will make sure it has enough evidence to make a conviction. The legal system is overloaded as it is, they often will not take someone to court for insufficient evidence and its not the police who take you to court. If you are proven guilty then in the main someone is. The CPS felt they had evidence to take it to court, the courts felt they had enough evidence to pronounce guilty but hey people on trial lie to try and get away with it. And some people are unfortunately guilty of believing family out of loyalty no matter what. | |||
"The fact is I don’t believe you" The fact is, that still doesn't change anything. "you say “I know with absolute certainty he didn't do it” but unless you were there you clearly don’t you are taking his word for it. If you really think a family member has not told you the full truth over an incident at some point you are not on this planet, people get embarrassed, they don’t disclose the facts." I have no doubt members of my family have lied to me or not disclosed the full truth many times. In this case though, the person in question absolutely did not do what he was accused of. "Did you attend the case, did your brother? Did you actually hear the evidence presented?" Yes, I did. Yes, the person accused did. Yes, I heard the evidence. It amounted to the testimony of the police officer, that's all. "You also quote forums form websites that frankly are full of people who will say 2never did it gov” yet openly brag on every other thread how fast they achieve on public roads" Both of the fora I mentioned have a percentage of those people. They also have a number of people who are totally law-abiding and very responsible. Both have their fair share of police, too, since a lot of police have a love of fast cars. Dismissing accounts there with the claim they are all boy-racers is laughable, (and bigoted). Some of those responsible people have been singled out by police for the type of car they drive. This is one of the reasons I know how ridiculous the system can be. "You have no facts" Other than personal account of the experiences of friends, the time I've spent standing in a court room listening to evidence being presented and of my own experiences, no, I have no facts at all. 
"not brought up any links to substantiated events," I can link you to accounts of people I know personally, but you'll say they are hearsay by people denying their actual guilt. Where official case information is available online it will give a summary of the case and the outcome, it won't specify the evidence presented. Substantiated evidence isn't available, but ignoring that miscarriages of justice occur is ridiculously naive. Can you provide substantiated evidence that no miscarriage of justice has ever occurred? Or that nobody has ever been found guilty of a charge simply on the word of a police officer? I know documentation saying it shouldn't happen exists, but you can no more provide substantiated evidence that it doesn't actually happen than I can prove documented evidence, beyond the accounts of those involved, that it does. Would you like a sworn statement from one of my friends, or my family member? Oh, no, that's unsubstantiated too. The fact that their innocence is unsubstantiated is the reason they were found guilty in the first place, since they couldn't prove the police officer was wrong, or was lying through his teeth. "and clearly have never had anything what so ever to do with the Judicial system personally in this country and as for first hand well you haven’t have you." Totally incorrect, on both counts. "if the individual is proven guilty without any doubt and that’s how it works in England if proven guilty (you do not have to prove yourself innocent) then they will be convicted." That's how it's supposed to work. In practice, some of the time, it doesn't. Innocent until proven guilty is a lovely idea, but in reality defendants are often expected to prove their innocence, rather than the other way around. "but hey people on trial lie to try and get away with it." People on trial lie but never the police? Riiiight. No police officer has ever planted evidence either. The CPS don't always get it right either. Just because they proceed doesn't mean there is enough evidence. Plenty of cases get thrown out because there isn't. Unfortunately a few actually result in guilty verdicts because certain magistrates decide to accept the word of a police officer over that of a member of the public, in the face of no other evidence. Ultimately I am speaking from my experiences and those of my friends, family and some acquaintances. Your experiences are different, clearly. As with all things, people tend to believe the world is just and fair until personally disavowed of that notion. | |||
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"whilst i agree with a lot of what was said in the thread by ronthemuffinmuncher i have to point a few things out.you say its a standing joke that everyone in prison claims they are innocent,that is not correct,most prisoners are in prison on the back of a guilty plea,also some prisoners are genuinely innocent.It is also wrong to suggest courts dont convict on the word of a single police officer of course they do,and the magistrates courts are the worst for pandering to the police and believing everything they say.Imagine if you were in a police cell and a copper came in and you punched him in the stomach,you would be charged with assault and you would be convicted,no doubt about it,the police can say what they like and the courts will believe them unless its proven that they are lying,and on the rare occasions that does happen,no action is ever taken against them.Yes the cps do pick and choose which cases to prosecute based on likelyhood of a conviction but every now and then they take a chance anyway usually when asked to do so by the police,a great example of how freemasonry works in this country" to clarify the punch in the stomach scenario what i mean is if the courts couldnt just take the word of one officer then i would get away with it | |||
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"....... Yesterday I was driving on my way to hockey,and I was going at the correct speed. I passed a police car going in the opposite direction. They promptly did a u turn and pulled me over....... In my mind, this is key. Why did they do a u-turn? Police cars travel in the opposite direction to MILLIONS of cars every day and whether he is a good cop or a bad cop - something motivated him to make that u-turn when for millions of others they don't. No excuses for his arse holey behaviour but you kind of expect that once they actually get you in their sights and you the focus of their attention." Tbh I couldn't say why he pulled me. I was not doing anything wrong. I was driving with the speed limit in a built up area. I guess I was just unfortunate. | |||
"Most police officers are conscientious and honest, but a few aren't, and none are infallible." I cannot agree with this even with my most optimistic head on. I've come up against 'policemen' on the streets before who paid no heed at all to the law and their requirement to act within it. I'd say that 99.9% of police officers are of a suspicious nature by default and if they aren't - they're in the wrong profession, and of these 99.9%, almost all of them are over zealous when out and about 'enforcing the law'. I don't trust any policeman at all as I know how bent they can be, and I know from personal experience how they close ranks when challenged. | |||
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