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Disturbing Sophie Moss death ( sex game)
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Hi ,
Just seen in news about this. Tragic case of death from supposed sex game.
Opens up a very devisive debate around what we perceived happened , sentence given and so on.
On my part a few years back on a online date app I met a lady. All seemed pretty conventional untill she needed to be sure I,d be comfortable beating her ????? And hurting her ... as part of any sexual play.This as long as I respected before and after and hugged her and held her afterwards.
Bit rich for me so I declined and wished her well and we went our separate ways.
So the guys defence , though flimsy, is plausible.
How again , and I,ve noticed on other harmfull incidences with accidents or violence. Alcohol excess consumption seems to absolve individuals from responsibility...as to there judgement being impaired.
Just a cop out...
I expect this news item is going to stir up ,quite rightly, strong opinions.
What measures do you think can be done to prevent this happening again.
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By *ickyquimCouple
over a year ago
north west |
"Hi ,
Just seen in news about this. Tragic case of death from supposed sex game.
Opens up a very devisive debate around what we perceived happened , sentence given and so on.
On my part a few years back on a online date app I met a lady. All seemed pretty conventional untill she needed to be sure I,d be comfortable beating her ????? And hurting her ... as part of any sexual play.This as long as I respected before and after and hugged her and held her afterwards.
Bit rich for me so I declined and wished her well and we went our separate ways.
So the guys defence , though flimsy, is plausible.
How again , and I,ve noticed on other harmfull incidences with accidents or violence. Alcohol excess consumption seems to absolve individuals from responsibility...as to there judgement being impaired.
Just a cop out...
I expect this news item is going to stir up ,quite rightly, strong opinions.
What measures do you think can be done to prevent this happening again.
"
It’s going be be like operation Spanner all over again.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Hi ,
Just seen in news about this. Tragic case of death from supposed sex game.
Opens up a very devisive debate around what we perceived happened , sentence given and so on.
On my part a few years back on a online date app I met a lady. All seemed pretty conventional untill she needed to be sure I,d be comfortable beating her ????? And hurting her ... as part of any sexual play.This as long as I respected before and after and hugged her and held her afterwards.
Bit rich for me so I declined and wished her well and we went our separate ways.
So the guys defence , though flimsy, is plausible.
How again , and I,ve noticed on other harmfull incidences with accidents or violence. Alcohol excess consumption seems to absolve individuals from responsibility...as to there judgement being impaired.
Just a cop out...
I expect this news item is going to stir up ,quite rightly, strong opinions.
What measures do you think can be done to prevent this happening again.
"
Being under the influence of alcohol isn’t a defence. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The man was d*unk even if they were into BDSM they shouldn't have played under the influence.
Just because someone you once spoke to liked impact play does not make his excuses anymore plausible.
"
100 pc. It's like not driving while d*unk. What you can do when sober isn't a guide to what you can do when d*unk. |
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"Anything like this is gonna be hard to decide which it comes down to it.
He shouldn’t go unpunished
The question is murder be manslaughter "
You'd have thought though if they were into this kink. There would be messages confirming it, use of safe bell or whatever (words don't always work in those situations). |
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"The man was d*unk even if they were into BDSM they shouldn't have played under the influence.
Just because someone you once spoke to liked impact play does not make his excuses anymore plausible.
100 pc. It's like not driving while d*unk. What you can do when sober isn't a guide to what you can do when d*unk. "
Exactly this  |
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"The man was d*unk even if they were into BDSM they shouldn't have played under the influence.
Just because someone you once spoke to liked impact play does not make his excuses anymore plausible.
"
she wasn’t under the influence and the case is possibly going to be sent to the attorney general to be reviewed as it’s been deemed far to lenient which I agree that it’s a joke of a sentence |
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"The man was d*unk even if they were into BDSM they shouldn't have played under the influence.
Just because someone you once spoke to liked impact play does not make his excuses anymore plausible.
she wasn’t under the influence and the case is possibly going to be sent to the attorney general to be reviewed as it’s been deemed far to lenient which I agree that it’s a joke of a sentence "
4 years and 8 months |
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"The man was d*unk even if they were into BDSM they shouldn't have played under the influence.
Just because someone you once spoke to liked impact play does not make his excuses anymore plausible.
she wasn’t under the influence and the case is possibly going to be sent to the attorney general to be reviewed as it’s been deemed far to lenient which I agree that it’s a joke of a sentence
4 years and 8 months "
exactly joke of a sentence by all accounts she was a vulnerable lady who had problems and was taken advantage of which in my eyes is even worse it’s heartbreaking when you here the statement released by her family |
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The whole consent thing is a massive grey area when it comes to proving what actually happened and any intent behind actions. This is a tragic example of why it’s soooo bloody important to know who you’re trusting, especially on the BDSM scene. Sadly, and terrifyingly, not all humans are decent and some will use the cover of the scene to abuse and harm. Under that umbrella it’s a nightmare proving anything. |
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I haven’t read about the case.
However, in response the the discussion I wanted to say that all kinds of sex can be abusive (even vanilla, missionary position, wedding night sex can be abusive).
I enjoy some BDSM activities that others would consider way over their line.
There needs to be calm, equal, sober discussion beforehand.
Both people need to understand the risks, minimise them and then freely and enthusiastically consent.
Neither party should be intoxicated.
There should be a means of withdrawing consent by both parties.
If consent is withdrawn, it should be received positively.
If consent if violated, it is entirely the fault of the violator. No matter how kinky the sex, no matter what has been said in advance, either party can change their mind or withdraw consent. |
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It’s a joke of a sentence.
This is nothing to do with BDSM or anything kinky. This is just about abuse and violence in a relationship.
It’s not easy to accidentally throttle someone to death.
He also didn’t even bother to call an ambulance when he realised what had happened. |
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"It’s a joke of a sentence.
This is nothing to do with BDSM or anything kinky. This is just about abuse and violence in a relationship.
It’s not easy to accidentally throttle someone to death.
He also didn’t even bother to call an ambulance when he realised what had happened."
Totally agree |
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By *ensualMan
over a year ago
Sutton |
I was outraged reading the OP and having swiftly read the reports. I was full of outrage of badly performed BDSM killing someone.
But then I read the reports carefully.
I except what everyone else has said about performing BDSM. What I set out below is my own reading and understanding of how the sentence was reached. I am happy to be corrected but as it is only my view. I won't be indulging in debate as I have spent a lot of time writing this so feel free disagree.
The defendant said he could not remember how she died. He woke up and she was not responsive. His hands hurt, and he could only assume that because they used to do hands around neck sex before it was his assumption that is what happened. He had never hurt her before nor intended to do so.
So there was no evidence that kinky sex had occurred, it was put forward as an explanation but with no evidence.
The available physical evidence was this:
"A post mortem found she died from strangulation. The pathologist said her injuries “do not suggest either very prolonged or very forceful strangulation or strangulation which was actively resisted”. In other words consensual strangulation but not done with an obvious intent to kill.
A quick look at the mental state for murder requires an intention to kill or do grievous bodily harm".
I would rely on anyone with legal experience, but if the prosecution had to prove beyond all reasonable doubt intent to kill or cause grievous bodily harm to me it looks like they were stuffed and murder got reduced to manslaughter. Where the judge is then bound by sentencing guidelines.
It also seems to me the kinky sex was raised to show that he did not intend to hurt her. They had done it before and she had always survived so he had no reason to kill her. It was not used as a defence that she had consented to be hurt.
What to me are the takeaway points.
I think this case actually had nothing to do with rough or kinky sex despite what the press said, it is more about how the prosecution prove intent to kill when a person has no reason to kill the other person but has been a fuckwit.
Possibly some change to the sentencing guidelines to increase the sentence for fuckwit behaviour is required.
I feel for the poor woman and her family and also families who lost a loved one due to someone being a fuckwit. It must make it worse when the press run with the kinky sex headline when in fact it was a case of someone being a d*unken imbecile.
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It’s quite convenient for him that he was apparently so d*unk he can’t remember anything that happened. He was too d*unk to realise what he was doing, too d*unk to offer first aid and too d*unk to call an ambulance.
Yet he wasn’t so d*unk he didn’t manage to drive to her house after his wife went to bed, nor did he not manage to sit in his car for 15 minutes after finding her while he decided what to do, nor was he so d*unk he was incapable of driving himself to the police station… |
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The issue with the sentence is that it’s massively lenient compared to what the judge could give.
It’s entirely discretionary and can, in some cases, involve a life sentence.
Pleading guilty would have got him some time off, but it’s still a very low sentence given the options the judge had available. |
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"I was outraged reading the OP and having swiftly read the reports. I was full of outrage of badly performed BDSM killing someone.
But then I read the reports carefully.
I except what everyone else has said about performing BDSM. What I set out below is my own reading and understanding of how the sentence was reached. I am happy to be corrected but as it is only my view. I won't be indulging in debate as I have spent a lot of time writing this so feel free disagree.
The defendant said he could not remember how she died. He woke up and she was not responsive. His hands hurt, and he could only assume that because they used to do hands around neck sex before it was his assumption that is what happened. He had never hurt her before nor intended to do so.
So there was no evidence that kinky sex had occurred, it was put forward as an explanation but with no evidence.
The available physical evidence was this:
"A post mortem found she died from strangulation. The pathologist said her injuries “do not suggest either very prolonged or very forceful strangulation or strangulation which was actively resisted”. In other words consensual strangulation but not done with an obvious intent to kill.
A quick look at the mental state for murder requires an intention to kill or do grievous bodily harm".
I would rely on anyone with legal experience, but if the prosecution had to prove beyond all reasonable doubt intent to kill or cause grievous bodily harm to me it looks like they were stuffed and murder got reduced to manslaughter. Where the judge is then bound by sentencing guidelines.
It also seems to me the kinky sex was raised to show that he did not intend to hurt her. They had done it before and she had always survived so he had no reason to kill her. It was not used as a defence that she had consented to be hurt.
What to me are the takeaway points.
I think this case actually had nothing to do with rough or kinky sex despite what the press said, it is more about how the prosecution prove intent to kill when a person has no reason to kill the other person but has been a fuckwit.
Possibly some change to the sentencing guidelines to increase the sentence for fuckwit behaviour is required.
I feel for the poor woman and her family and also families who lost a loved one due to someone being a fuckwit. It must make it worse when the press run with the kinky sex headline when in fact it was a case of someone being a d*unken imbecile.
"
This is exactly how I read into this. I think that you are spot on. |
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"Id just read he’d had 24 bottles! 
Poor girl "
Yes that's right... if lose of life was through either stabbing or gun shot wounds I wonder whether the verdict would be any different?
I fail to see the distinction. To many times recently where under the influence has led to more lenient sentences. |
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"I haven’t read about the case.
However, in response the the discussion I wanted to say that all kinds of sex can be abusive (even vanilla, missionary position, wedding night sex can be abusive).
I enjoy some BDSM activities that others would consider way over their line.
There needs to be calm, equal, sober discussion beforehand.
Both people need to understand the risks, minimise them and then freely and enthusiastically consent.
Neither party should be intoxicated.
There should be a means of withdrawing consent by both parties.
If consent is withdrawn, it should be received positively.
If consent if violated, it is entirely the fault of the violator. No matter how kinky the sex, no matter what has been said in advance, either party can change their mind or withdraw consent. "
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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago
Bristol |
"It’s a joke of a sentence.
This is nothing to do with BDSM or anything kinky. This is just about abuse and violence in a relationship.
It’s not easy to accidentally throttle someone to death.
"
Regardless of anything else to do with the case, this isn’t true. It’s disturbingly easy to asphyxiate someone, whether intoxicated or not, and breath play games are astonishingly risky to play for people who are stone cold sober, let alone d*unk. |
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"It’s a joke of a sentence.
This is nothing to do with BDSM or anything kinky. This is just about abuse and violence in a relationship.
It’s not easy to accidentally throttle someone to death.
Regardless of anything else to do with the case, this isn’t true. It’s disturbingly easy to asphyxiate someone, whether intoxicated or not, and breath play games are astonishingly risky to play for people who are stone cold sober, let alone d*unk."
This is a good point, it is dangerous and doesn't require the amount of force some people think it does. |
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"I was outraged reading the OP and having swiftly read the reports. I was full of outrage of badly performed BDSM killing someone.
But then I read the reports carefully.
I except what everyone else has said about performing BDSM. What I set out below is my own reading and understanding of how the sentence was reached. I am happy to be corrected but as it is only my view. I won't be indulging in debate as I have spent a lot of time writing this so feel free disagree.
The defendant said he could not remember how she died. He woke up and she was not responsive. His hands hurt, and he could only assume that because they used to do hands around neck sex before it was his assumption that is what happened. He had never hurt her before nor intended to do so.
So there was no evidence that kinky sex had occurred, it was put forward as an explanation but with no evidence.
The available physical evidence was this:
"A post mortem found she died from strangulation. The pathologist said her injuries “do not suggest either very prolonged or very forceful strangulation or strangulation which was actively resisted”. In other words consensual strangulation but not done with an obvious intent to kill.
A quick look at the mental state for murder requires an intention to kill or do grievous bodily harm".
I would rely on anyone with legal experience, but if the prosecution had to prove beyond all reasonable doubt intent to kill or cause grievous bodily harm to me it looks like they were stuffed and murder got reduced to manslaughter. Where the judge is then bound by sentencing guidelines.
It also seems to me the kinky sex was raised to show that he did not intend to hurt her. They had done it before and she had always survived so he had no reason to kill her. It was not used as a defence that she had consented to be hurt.
What to me are the takeaway points.
I think this case actually had nothing to do with rough or kinky sex despite what the press said, it is more about how the prosecution prove intent to kill when a person has no reason to kill the other person but has been a fuckwit.
Possibly some change to the sentencing guidelines to increase the sentence for fuckwit behaviour is required.
I feel for the poor woman and her family and also families who lost a loved one due to someone being a fuckwit. It must make it worse when the press run with the kinky sex headline when in fact it was a case of someone being a d*unken imbecile.
This is exactly how I read into this. I think that you are spot on.
"
Yes, this is entirely the problem with reacting to what the papers decide to print in their headlines.
They are designed to cause shock and outrage.
We have a pretty good justice system, of course it's not perfect, it's run by humans in an ever changing world. But on the whole it does us well (if you are able to access it, but that's another issue).
This is an extremely sad case, and the bloke certainly deserves punishment, but it does not look like he is a murderer. |
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"I haven’t read about the case.
However, in response the the discussion I wanted to say that all kinds of sex can be abusive (even vanilla, missionary position, wedding night sex can be abusive).
I enjoy some BDSM activities that others would consider way over their line.
There needs to be calm, equal, sober discussion beforehand.
Both people need to understand the risks, minimise them and then freely and enthusiastically consent.
Neither party should be intoxicated.
There should be a means of withdrawing consent by both parties.
If consent is withdrawn, it should be received positively.
If consent if violated, it is entirely the fault of the violator. No matter how kinky the sex, no matter what has been said in advance, either party can change their mind or withdraw consent. "
Consent here is almost irrelevant, as you cannot legally give consent to be harmed (and certainly not killed).
Therefore, even if you both sign a document saying one party consents to the other beating them black and blue. There are witnesses to this, and witnesses to the act, all agreeing that the receiving party was enjoying it.
In the eyes of the law, this is illegal. Now whether a prosecution would be pursued is another matter. But it is something that should be borne in mind. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Hi ,
Just seen in news about this. Tragic case of death from supposed sex game.
Opens up a very devisive debate around what we perceived happened , sentence given and so on.
On my part a few years back on a online date app I met a lady. All seemed pretty conventional untill she needed to be sure I,d be comfortable beating her ????? And hurting her ... as part of any sexual play.This as long as I respected before and after and hugged her and held her afterwards.
Bit rich for me so I declined and wished her well and we went our separate ways.
So the guys defence , though flimsy, is plausible.
How again , and I,ve noticed on other harmfull incidences with accidents or violence. Alcohol excess consumption seems to absolve individuals from responsibility...as to there judgement being impaired.
Just a cop out...
I expect this news item is going to stir up ,quite rightly, strong opinions.
What measures do you think can be done to prevent this happening again.
"
Some of my partners wanted me to whip them hard, fuck them hard, and treat them rough, but 1) we never drank any alcohol before or during such play, 2) we spent a lot of time building trust on both sides before we crossed that bridge. Drinks afterwards? Sure. Before? Never. |
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