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Death sentence for having an abortion
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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I just read that Texas are debating not just banning abortion but classing it as homicide for which the penalty is death.
Pro life groups support the death penalty generally anyway. Is this the most tragic irony ever? Is it just me? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Sounds like a return to the dark ages, where some cultures executed you if you tired to commit suicide but failed
Sad times  "
We are imploding in our own lunacy. When's the comet coming again? |
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Someone took The Handmaid's Tale as an instruction manual.
What's happening in Texas is inhuman and just utterly stupid, lead entirely by crusty white men who want to control women.
I have a lot of links to Texas and am genuinely afraid for my people there. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I just read that Texas are debating not just banning abortion but classing it as homicide for which the penalty is death.
Pro life groups support the death penalty generally anyway. Is this the most tragic irony ever? Is it just me?"
That’s religious influence for you
Religion has so much to answer for |
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"Sounds like a return to the dark ages, where some cultures executed you if you tired to commit suicide but failed
Sad times
We are imploding in our own lunacy. When's the comet coming again?"
It seems so, some of those sci fi future worlds don’t seem so fantasy the way it’s going.
As for the comet, they put back it’s arrival date last month, now 2050 I think  |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Source please?
From the information i have heard it is a 10k fine.."
Guardian. Have a quick google. It's being debated as I said. Also read articles on "how I reconcile my pro life beliefs and supoort the death penalty". |
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By *otSoPoshWoman
over a year ago
In a ball gown because that's how we roll in N. Devon |
There aren't words to describe my feelings on this.
How is it human to make a woman choose between death row and having to nurture and give birth to a child they can never love? |
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"Source please?
From the information i have heard it is a 10k fine.."
A bill was submitted earlier this year for this, it was rejected. Not sure, now the new law is passing, whether they’ll try again. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Source please?
From the information i have heard it is a 10k fine..
Guardian. Have a quick google. It's being debated as I said. Also read articles on "how I reconcile my pro life beliefs and supoort the death penalty"."
That Article is over 2 years old and says nothing more than what one guy said on Fox News... |
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With the law as it stands today, in theory I could offer some friendly advice from my armchair in England to one of my Texas peeps... And be sued for "aiding" an abortion. Anyone from information providers, clinic reception staff, helpful friends and family, cab drivers who drive women to an appointment could be sued
It's inhuman. It's horrible. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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They still allow abortion in extreme cases so wouldn't put anyone to death if they had an abortion. Its the same as killing in self defence is not murder. |
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If anyone has had to make the decision to terminate a pregnancy they'll know it ain't a decision that's taken likely.
You absorb the physical and mental anguish yourself because you don't want to inflict it on another life, a life that doesn't deserve it. And you're doing it when everything inside you is screaming not to because your maternal instinct is kicking in. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Look at the “ Texas situation” thread on this page for more context as to what has happened…. It would almost be easier to close down this thread and continue that one…."
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"They still allow abortion in extreme cases so wouldn't put anyone to death if they had an abortion. Its the same as killing in self defence is not murder."
They don't allow abortion of pregnancy caused by r@pe or !ncest. The poor victims will be forced to carry those pregnancies to term and have the children of their attackers/abusers
It's inhuman. It's vile. |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"They still allow abortion in extreme cases so wouldn't put anyone to death if they had an abortion. Its the same as killing in self defence is not murder."
Under the new Texas law they don’t….
6 weeks or until a heartbeat is detected on sonogram whichever comes first, no exceptions for in cest, ra pe, or health of the mother issues … |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Look at the “ Texas situation” thread on this page for more context as to what has happened…. It would almost be easier to close down this thread and continue that one…."
Fair point Fabio I didn't see that thread... |
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"Different countries do things differently and we need to accept that.... there’s places where you still get your hands cut off for stealing or thrown off rooftops for being gay. "
No. There is no need to accept a formerly fairly civilised country introducing terrifying new laws like this. Nor accepting that some people think it's ok to kill gay people. |
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If anyone is concerened about Islamic fundamentalists take a trip to the southern states of the USA and see Christian fundamentalism.
These people who say it is a massive intrusion on their FREEDOM to be asked to wear a face mask in a public building because of covid-19 are perfectly happy to interfere with the right of a woman to choose whether or not to have a child and punish her and her "co-conspirators" severely for not complying. Next is a ban on contraceptives and a woman's right to say no to sex. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Its america....what else would you expect...too much sunshine...too little education...just my opinion so dont get mad yanky doodles out there...i mostly mean the south anyway...still living on the past  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Typical fascist, militant Christian, misogynistic America, not that the majority of the rest of the supposedly developed world is much better, UK included xx |
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"Typical fascist, militant Christian, misogynistic America, not that the majority of the rest of the supposedly developed world is much better, UK included xx"
Having lived in the States I'll say it's far worse than the UK. |
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"I just read that Texas are debating not just banning abortion but classing it as homicide for which the penalty is death.
Pro life groups support the death penalty generally anyway. Is this the most tragic irony ever? Is it just me?"
Yet tell them it's something thd taliban want to bring on now they've taken over Afghanistan and they'll tell you it's barbaric and they shouldn't oppress women like that.
I hope those who voted for these laws are willing to adopt every child that enters the care system.... You know, the wonderfully funded and not at all abusive care system in the US (a problem shared by many countries, not just America before I upset any American folks). |
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"Different countries do things differently and we need to accept that.... there’s places where you still get your hands cut off for stealing or thrown off rooftops for being gay. "
Those things aren't OK either  |
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"Different countries do things differently and we need to accept that.... there’s places where you still get your hands cut off for stealing or thrown off rooftops for being gay. "
and that’s ok is it??
Also no, we don’t need to accept that at all. No one has the right to decide wether a women keeps her baby or not, and to punish with death is inhumane |
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By *reya73Woman
over a year ago
Whitley Bay |
It seems to me that fundamentally it's not even about abortion. It's about controlling women and womens rights.
It takes two to create a pregnancy... Yet only women are held accountable.
So sad and twisted. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I think it’s appalling that anyone in government thinks they have a say over a woman’s reproductive organs/womb. My stepbrothers ex asked me if I was going to have my daughter sterilised, so she couldn’t reproduce, as that’s what some places in America do, when a disabled girl starts menstruating.
I’ll be honest, I did think she was lying, as it seemed so invasive, saying my child was a second rate person, and more her own prejudice, but after all the crap that’s come from America re women’s rights etc, the past few years, I’m not so sure now. That saddens me.
Probably don’t want babies conceived through ra*e and inc**t excluded from their law, as they won’t be able to keep the family line going. Has to be to the only logical explanation, as educated, ethical and moral men wouldn’t make that kind of law…
Viv xx |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Typical fascist, militant Christian, misogynistic America, not that the majority of the rest of the supposedly developed world is much better, UK included xx
Having lived in the States I'll say it's far worse than the UK."
Agreed, the US is a diabolical place. But the UK and most of Europe are following in a very similar direction, which is very concerning xx |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It seems to me that fundamentally it's not even about abortion. It's about controlling women and womens rights.
It takes two to create a pregnancy... Yet only women are held accountable.
So sad and twisted. "
xx |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"It seems to me that fundamentally it's not even about abortion. It's about controlling women and womens rights.
It takes two to create a pregnancy... Yet only women are held accountable.
So sad and twisted. "
It’s ironic that Texas republicans are so up for freedom in relation to wearing a mask, and freedom when it comes to carrying a gun, but freedom over a woman’s body is the line!
The fact there are zero exceptions is the cruelest thing for me… I bet it will eventually get struck down on constitutional grounds, but the fact they did this in the first place is going to stick |
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Oh it's so ironic that the insane state governor says he's unable to mandate masks in schools but can mandate girls must not wear spaghetti straps or short skirts.
It's ALL about controlling girls and women. And about keeping the poor in their place. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Different countries do things differently and we need to accept that.... there’s places where you still get your hands cut off for stealing or thrown off rooftops for being gay. "
Absolutely we do not need to accept it!
Those things are abhorrent and need stopping. |
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"So what if you miscarry. Who are they going to execute then? "
You think this doesn't happen?
El Salvador has a total ban on abortion — one of the world's most restrictive — and sentences can run up to 50 years in prison.
It is estimated by the Center for Reproductive Rights that between 2000 and 2019, 181 women suffered obstetric emergencies but were criminalized for alleged abortions or charged with aggravated homicides.
Sara Rogel was arrested in October 2012 after going to a hospital with bleeding injuries caused by what she said was a fall while carrying out chores at home. Then a 22-year-old student, Rogel was prosecuted and sentenced for killing her unborn daughter.
She was released from jail in June after 9 years.
When Mirna Ramírez gave birth two months early, she was detained by the police, accused of attempted murder and jailed for 12 years.
There was a really famous case in El Salvador back in 2013 where a woman, Beatriz, was carrying an anencephalic baby which was causing damage to her (she had lupus and the risks of haemorrhaging, kidney failure and maternal death increased as the pregnancy progressed).
The courts held the baby's life to be more important than the mother's, even though it was a completely hopeless pregnancy and the baby would not survive. |
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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
The politician from Oklahoma, Justin Humphrey, called women 'hosts' for pregnancies.
None of them are talking about men being responsible for pregnancy, or the men that coerce women into having abortion, or their pro-life stance not preventing them from ensuring their 'mistakes' are aborted.
In all the years I was fertile I never once managed to get pregnant without some input from a man.
There was a great thread on Twitter from Gabrielle Blair (@designmom) that every man should read.
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By *en-xxxMan
over a year ago
coventry |
"I’m yet to see somebody execute a child abuser
What has that got to do with a woman potentially being sentenced to death for having an abortion?"
So they are saying death penalty for ladies having an abortion but peodophiles walk free..... and you’re ok with that ?? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I’m yet to see somebody execute a child abuser
What has that got to do with a woman potentially being sentenced to death for having an abortion?
So they are saying death penalty for ladies having an abortion but peodophiles walk free..... and you’re ok with that ??"
Firstly nobody is saying paedophiles walk free I don't think you're understanding what's going on in the States at the moment.
Can you tell me where I said it was OK I just asked why it had to do with a woman having an abortion. |
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The richest white men on the planet support abortion. I don't know where people get the idea that it's men that don't want it.
Look at Ireland, they introduced it, and now girls who are as young as 14 are getting them without their parents knowledge. Technically at an age that can't consent to sex. Now telle that wasn't a white man's idea. Can knock a kid up and take them to get rid of it and it will all be kept secret.
The day a country brings out an abortion law that has protection for women who want to have babies, that makes it illegal to coerce an abortion, that keep evidence from abortion in case you later want to charge someone. That follow up with psychological and mental help. Is the day I say women actually came up with the plans themselves.
Until then, they can just have laws that let rich white men brush mistakes under the carpet. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Source please?
From the information i have heard it is a 10k fine..
Ah come on?!
Never let facts/truth get in the way of a good story. "
It's been all over the news but I guess it's easier to pretend it's not happening. |
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"Source please?
From the information i have heard it is a 10k fine..
Ah come on?!
Never let facts/truth get in the way of a good story.
It's been all over the news but I guess it's easier to pretend it's not happening. "
Haven’t seen anything in the news about talk of the death penalty being applied to this situation. Just the fine.
Texas has always been medieval when it comes to these things, so perhaps it’s true.
A source would helpful was the point I was sarcastically reinforcing. |
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It’s an atrocious proposal, but it doesn’t mean that the entire world has gone mad, as some have suggested.
It hasn’t been enacted,but the proposal is yet another stain on the Republican Party in the US.
Most of the civilised world is slowly making progress though. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It seems to me that fundamentally it's not even about abortion. It's about controlling women and womens rights.
It takes two to create a pregnancy... Yet only women are held accountable.
So sad and twisted. "
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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What do you expect from a nation who think it’s acceptable to take pictures of your toddler holding a shotgun. What I don’t understand is why do you give a fuck about something happening thousands of miles away that has no impact on your life in any way ? |
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"What do you expect from a nation who think it’s acceptable to take pictures of your toddler holding a shotgun. What I don’t understand is why do you give a fuck about something happening thousands of miles away that has no impact on your life in any way ? "
Having lived there for several years, I wouldn’t tar the entire country with the same brush.
This is a proposal in Texas. There are states that are worse than Texas for this sort of thing, and there are states that are a hell of a lot better.
But this proposal does not represent the US as a whole. It doesn’t even represent Texas as a whole.
But I agree with you, there is an unhealthy obsession with the US and with US culture, blindly copying and adopting it. |
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"Source please?
From the information i have heard it is a 10k fine..
Ah come on?!
Never let facts/truth get in the way of a good story.
It's been all over the news but I guess it's easier to pretend it's not happening.
Haven’t seen anything in the news about talk of the death penalty being applied to this situation. Just the fine.
Texas has always been medieval when it comes to these things, so perhaps it’s true.
A source would helpful was the point I was sarcastically reinforcing. "
Texas house bill 3326. It has not been adopted. A similar proposal was made in 2019, so presumably similar proposals may be made again in the future. It’s an odd place, the US |
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"I'll never understand the USA.
So much freedom they don't know what to do with it.
*mind blown*  "
This morning, my American wife thanked me for being British and therefore providing her somewhere to escape to 22 years ago.
I know lots of Americans living in the UK. Not a single one wishes to return. |
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"I'll never understand the USA.
So much freedom they don't know what to do with it.
*mind blown*
This morning, my American wife thanked me for being British and therefore providing her somewhere to escape to 22 years ago.
I know lots of Americans living in the UK. Not a single one wishes to return."
I know some who do plan to return or have done so, but typically to more moderate places like New York, Boston, California.
Texas is an odd one, on the one hand it is the most blood-thirsty (more executions than any other states), and lots of radical republicans like the one who proposed the bill. But also some much more moderate urban areas like Austin, and the political landscape is changing as there are huge numbers of people moving there from California.
On the meantime though, Jesus, what an ugly proposal. |
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"I just read that Texas are debating not just banning abortion but classing it as homicide for which the penalty is death.
Pro life groups support the death penalty generally anyway. Is this the most tragic irony ever? Is it just me?"
It’s ironic when most people have images/stories off backward or dark age era nations or practices they mostly think off third world nations/countries particularly parts off the Middle East and so forth..
And yet they would never in their wildest dreams think something like this could happen or be a possibility in the self proclaimed “most free and forward country in the world”...
Rest assured common sense will prevail (at least I hope so) let’s face it if something as dumb as this was passed off it would spark a nation wide and international outcry be pretty much the equivalent to the state off Texas shooting themselves in the foot.. |
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"I'll never understand the USA.
So much freedom they don't know what to do with it.
*mind blown*
This morning, my American wife thanked me for being British and therefore providing her somewhere to escape to 22 years ago.
I know lots of Americans living in the UK. Not a single one wishes to return."
It's so sad! We've a lot of online American friends who would love to leave the US to come to the UK too. |
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"This saddens me"
Absolutely.
But let’s keep some context and perspective. When the same proposal was made in 2019, it was dismissed without even being discussed.
It is not something they is about to happen, but it is still extremely sad that a politician feels that this is ok and that he has any support at all. |
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"I just read that Texas are debating not just banning abortion but classing it as homicide for which the penalty is death.
Pro life groups support the death penalty generally anyway. Is this the most tragic irony ever? Is it just me?"
I've not heard this but I think your second paragraph is a big assumption.
I've never heard of any pro life groups supporting the death penalty.
I think most religious pro life groups are anti death penalty so I guess it depends on which groups you mean. |
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As for those asking for a source ive not been able to find a recent one.
https://www.texastribune.org/2021/03/09/texas-legislature-abortion-criminalize-death-penalty/
This is the best I can do and as most have already said it has been tried before and failed. |
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I used to think common sense might prevail in America. I even lived there a while. But after an acquaintance was murdered for being a lesbian who owned a sex shop - and this in a Northern state - I pretty much lost hope.
It's not just Texas. Nationwide the loonies are trying to get Roe Vs Wade overturned. And looking increasingly like they will.
And that's just one issue. Medieval employment laws, bankruptcy inducing healthcare, groups such as Pagans still killed for their beliefs, cops overtly racist... |
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"I used to think common sense might prevail in America. I even lived there a while. But after an acquaintance was murdered for being a lesbian who owned a sex shop - and this in a Northern state - I pretty much lost hope.
It's not just Texas. Nationwide the loonies are trying to get Roe Vs Wade overturned. And looking increasingly like they will.
And that's just one issue. Medieval employment laws, bankruptcy inducing healthcare, groups such as Pagans still killed for their beliefs, cops overtly racist..."
Yeah, once you get away from the big cities and the nice white picket fence suburbs that we see in sitcoms, the real US is very different to how they like to think of themselves and how they like to represent the country. I had no idea how prevalent stuff like trailer parks are until I lived in the US (4 years), and how prevalent open racism and bigotry is.
And you are right, this Texas proposal is just trying to get to the Supreme Court on Roe vs Wade. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I just read that Texas are debating not just banning abortion but classing it as homicide for which the penalty is death."
come on Texas, if you want to play middle ages, do it properly.... get the head crusher out. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The usa moan about the taliban and how barbaric they are but seem very slowly heading in the same direction but thats ok as its in the name of Christianity . Extremists everywhere and getting more power each day |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The usa moan about the taliban and how barbaric they are but seem very slowly heading in the same direction but thats ok as its in the name of Christianity . Extremists everywhere and getting more power each day "
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"The usa moan about the taliban and how barbaric they are but seem very slowly heading in the same direction but thats ok as its in the name of Christianity . Extremists everywhere and getting more power each day "
What most Americans don't know about their own history is quite frankly worrying...like references to God only being introduced into the pledge of allegiance in the 50s...."in god we trust" being introduced onto bank notes around the same time....most of the founding fathers being either atheists or agnostics.
When I lived stateside, some 20+ years ago now. it was common for the Americans I knew to exhibit worry that Iranian children were made to give a pledge at the start of school days and taught that Iran is the greatest country in the world.
I'd point out "you do exactly the same".
And the response, universally, was "But we are right".
They couldn't see why it worried me. |
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"This world is heading in a very bad direction.
I really feel this is right.. sadly "
“The old always think the world is getting worse; it is for the young, equipped with historical facts, to point out that, compared with 1509, or even 1939, life in 2021 is sweet as honey“ |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Oooo a difficult subject. The death sentence. Yes, some people deserve it. I know it's a cruel thing to do or fathom, But if somebody has murdered somebody, then they deserve to have the death sentence. There are so many things that are untasteful. Is hard to put somebody's life on the line. To one person it could be minor to another person it could be serious, hard, hard question to question to answer And deal with.
Abortion, That depends. The foetus is not exactly a person during the period of the abortion timeline, as far as I know, "what I mean by that is aware of its surroundings." Some people have an abortion when they discover their foetus has Down syndrome. It's another hard question to deal with. People have their own thoughts. I personally wouldn't mind have a child with Down syndrome. Everybody is different. |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"Source please?
From the information i have heard it is a 10k fine..
Ah come on?!
Never let facts/truth get in the way of a good story.
It's been all over the news but I guess it's easier to pretend it's not happening. "
It’s not a 10k fine as such…. But any private citizens who provides information that leads to a criminal prosecution under this law is entitled to a bounty of up to 10,000 dollars
Basically the person who turns in anyone that helps a woman with in effect an illegal abortion under this law … in theory any person from a taxi driver or person driving someone to a clinic onwards… can be charged with abetting, and if they are found guilty, then it’s the person who gave the tip that gets the money!
Basically the law doesn’t deputise law enforcement to go about prosecuting… it’s the private citizens as any citizens going thru this making the complaint also gets their legal costs covered in a successful prosecution |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The usa moan about the taliban and how barbaric they are but seem very slowly heading in the same direction but thats ok as its in the name of Christianity . Extremists everywhere and getting more power each day
What most Americans don't know about their own history is quite frankly worrying...like references to God only being introduced into the pledge of allegiance in the 50s...."in god we trust" being introduced onto bank notes around the same time....most of the founding fathers being either atheists or agnostics.
When I lived stateside, some 20+ years ago now. it was common for the Americans I knew to exhibit worry that Iranian children were made to give a pledge at the start of school days and taught that Iran is the greatest country in the world.
I'd point out "you do exactly the same".
And the response, universally, was "But we are right".
They couldn't see why it worried me. "
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By *uvery30Woman
over a year ago
Gloucestershire |
The trouble is it will go back to how it did years ago, and people will use back ally or dirty places to have one and end up with god knows what.
It's sad we live in a world now there is no freedom of choice. And no understanding for the individual. And why or what they are going though so sad |
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"The trouble is it will go back to how it did years ago, and people will use back ally or dirty places to have one and end up with god knows what.
It's sad we live in a world now there is no freedom of choice. And no understanding for the individual. And why or what they are going though so sad "
There has never been freedom of choice.
Choice is an illusion, rights and freedoms are those that society decides to offer but they can always be taken away.
Basically you can only be as free as your society allows.
If you want to test this try something as simple as walking down a street naked.
We are all born naked but society does not allow us the freedom to remain so.
Also one person's freedom impacts on others freedom.
So me being free to play loud music impacts on someone else's freedom to peace and quiet.
Therefore society will always have to limit freedoms even fairly simple non-moralistic freedoms. |
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By *uvery30Woman
over a year ago
Gloucestershire |
"The trouble is it will go back to how it did years ago, and people will use back ally or dirty places to have one and end up with god knows what.
It's sad we live in a world now there is no freedom of choice. And no understanding for the individual. And why or what they are going though so sad
There has never been freedom of choice.
Choice is an illusion, rights and freedoms are those that society decides to offer but they can always be taken away.
Basically you can only be as free as your society allows.
If you want to test this try something as simple as walking down a street naked.
We are all born naked but society does not allow us the freedom to remain so.
Also one person's freedom impacts on others freedom.
So me being free to play loud music impacts on someone else's freedom to peace and quiet.
Therefore society will always have to limit freedoms even fairly simple non-moralistic freedoms. "
So true. They have a hold on us eather way x |
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Brittney Poolaw was this month convicted of first degree manslaughter for her miscarriage.
She had used meth, which the Oklahoma court held placed the foetus in jeopardy, in spite of all medical reports (including the medical expert called by the prosecution) agreeing there was no evidence to suggest that caused the miscarriage.
Brittney was 19 when she miscarried, estimated that she was 15-17 weeks pregnant. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Brittney Poolaw was this month convicted of first degree manslaughter for her miscarriage.
She had used meth, which the Oklahoma court held placed the foetus in jeopardy, in spite of all medical reports (including the medical expert called by the prosecution) agreeing there was no evidence to suggest that caused the miscarriage.
Brittney was 19 when she miscarried, estimated that she was 15-17 weeks pregnant."
If that happened in Afghanistan... or Bradford...
America is a civilised country so it's ok. |
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