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would the world be better without religion ???
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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bit deep i know haha but would the world be better or worse without religion
i think theres pros and cons like the amount of war and death that happens in the name of religion but then i know people can get comfort from religion in times of stress or grief etc
are u one of those that says the bible says or the koran says or any other holy book says this so thats what ill do or do you prefer not to get involved???
what do u think lets have a debate haha |
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The benefits of religion to many outweigh the negatives of it. Most religious people strive to be good people who help their community.
If we scrapped religion, humans would find something else to start wars about. Like made up land borders, skin colour, etc. |
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On balance, yes. Afghanistan is an awful example of what can happen from religion and its influences. We've had thousands of religions and they die out, meaning that they are likely not to have substance but to reflect human needs for control |
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By *ocusMan
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"On balance, yes. Afghanistan is an awful example of what can happen from religion and its influences. We've had thousands of religions and they die out, meaning that they are likely not to have substance but to reflect human needs for control "
Weird how the Taliban rails against the west and so many things are forbidden. They banned floppy discs (remember them) for example. 4x4s, rocket launchers, machine guns, they’re all right but floppy discs….ooooh no, won’t stand for them. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Religion is used as the excuse to cause war like football is for football hooligans, however I don't believe that it causes more war than good, I think that many people who are religious though don't love a god they fear a god which in my opinion is better, because I believe that if people didn't think there was another God or entity out there that will judge them then the world would have a lot more people who would take the opportunity to commit crimes. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I've always thought of religion as being the thing that held order together before we had laws. "
And you would be correct, if you look at our main laws they are laws that have been brought forward from the 10 commandments. |
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With or without religion people would still find reasons to be intolerant of a group of people because of a perceived difference. I'm not one for organised religion but I have seen individual's faith keep and guide them through tough times. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"On balance, yes. Afghanistan is an awful example of what can happen from religion and its influences. We've had thousands of religions and they die out, meaning that they are likely not to have substance but to reflect human needs for control
Weird how the Taliban rails against the west and so many things are forbidden. They banned floppy discs (remember them) for example. 4x4s, rocket launchers, machine guns, they’re all right but floppy discs….ooooh no, won’t stand for them."
The taliban also outlawed poppy fields, once we took the taliban out of these areas then the farmers were able to regrow and sell (not knocking the farmers its the only way they can survive) which will now enable a heroin epidemic in years to come. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"With or without religion people would still find reasons to be intolerant of a group of people because of a perceived difference. I'm not one for organised religion but I have seen individual's faith keep and guide them through tough times. "
Exactly, whilst there are 2 people on this earth we will always have war. |
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"The benefits of religion to many outweigh the negatives of it. Most religious people strive to be good people who help their community.
If we scrapped religion, humans would find something else to start wars about. Like made up land borders, skin colour, etc. "
exactly...there will always be wars....
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"With or without religion people would still find reasons to be intolerant of a group of people because of a perceived difference. I'm not one for organised religion but I have seen individual's faith keep and guide them through tough times.
Exactly, whilst there are 2 people on this earth we will always have war. "
Agreed |
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"On balance, yes. Afghanistan is an awful example of what can happen from religion and its influences. We've had thousands of religions and they die out, meaning that they are likely not to have substance but to reflect human needs for control
Weird how the Taliban rails against the west and so many things are forbidden. They banned floppy discs (remember them) for example. 4x4s, rocket launchers, machine guns, they’re all right but floppy discs….ooooh no, won’t stand for them.
The taliban also outlawed poppy fields, once we took the taliban out of these areas then the farmers were able to regrow and sell (not knocking the farmers its the only way they can survive) which will now enable a heroin epidemic in years to come. "
I remember reading some time ago that coalition forces were trying to encourage the farmers to grow potatoes and other vegetables instead of poppies by offering subsidies. The farmers weren't too impressed because even with the subsidies they'd still be a lot worse off financially. |
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That's an odd question. Religion seems fair game to be bashed lately and I think it's awful personally. I think people should be free to practice as they wish. You wouldn't say the same thing about someone's other personal freedoms would you? Would the world be better if we had only one child each, if everyone dressed the same, if wealth was shared, if there was one race, if there was one sexuality etc. No, it'd be a worse place for the lack of freedom of choice   |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"With or without religion people would still find reasons to be intolerant of a group of people because of a perceived difference. I'm not one for organised religion but I have seen individual's faith keep and guide them through tough times.
Exactly, whilst there are 2 people on this earth we will always have war. "
Kain and Able being a prime example |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"On balance, yes. Afghanistan is an awful example of what can happen from religion and its influences. We've had thousands of religions and they die out, meaning that they are likely not to have substance but to reflect human needs for control
Weird how the Taliban rails against the west and so many things are forbidden. They banned floppy discs (remember them) for example. 4x4s, rocket launchers, machine guns, they’re all right but floppy discs….ooooh no, won’t stand for them.
The taliban also outlawed poppy fields, once we took the taliban out of these areas then the farmers were able to regrow and sell (not knocking the farmers its the only way they can survive) which will now enable a heroin epidemic in years to come.
I remember reading some time ago that coalition forces were trying to encourage the farmers to grow potatoes and other vegetables instead of poppies by offering subsidies. The farmers weren't too impressed because even with the subsidies they'd still be a lot worse off financially. "
Yes to be fair the poppies are grown to allow them to eat they don't become rich off it and as you say the subsidies given by collation governments are never enough. I think personally that poverty brings more war to the world  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"That's an odd question. Religion seems fair game to be bashed lately and I think it's awful personally. I think people should be free to practice as they wish. You wouldn't say the same thing about someone's other personal freedoms would you? Would the world be better if we had only one child each, if everyone dressed the same, if wealth was shared, if there was one race, if there was one sexuality etc. No, it'd be a worse place for the lack of freedom of choice "
Im not sure how this relates to the ops question. We all have freedom of choice, religion doesn't give you that. |
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"That's an odd question. Religion seems fair game to be bashed lately and I think it's awful personally. I think people should be free to practice as they wish. You wouldn't say the same thing about someone's other personal freedoms would you? Would the world be better if we had only one child each, if everyone dressed the same, if wealth was shared, if there was one race, if there was one sexuality etc. No, it'd be a worse place for the lack of freedom of choice
Im not sure how this relates to the ops question. We all have freedom of choice, religion doesn't give you that. "
Huh? |
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By *egoMan
over a year ago
Preston |
I think religion is the root of all evil to be honest.
It preaches forgiveness so people can be evil with out fear of consequence and even justifies their evil deeds.
It creates divide over nothing but fairytale that people kill others for.
Just be decent people. |
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"On balance, yes. Afghanistan is an awful example of what can happen from religion and its influences. We've had thousands of religions and they die out, meaning that they are likely not to have substance but to reflect human needs for control
Weird how the Taliban rails against the west and so many things are forbidden. They banned floppy discs (remember them) for example. 4x4s, rocket launchers, machine guns, they’re all right but floppy discs….ooooh no, won’t stand for them.
The taliban also outlawed poppy fields, once we took the taliban out of these areas then the farmers were able to regrow and sell (not knocking the farmers its the only way they can survive) which will now enable a heroin epidemic in years to come.
I remember reading some time ago that coalition forces were trying to encourage the farmers to grow potatoes and other vegetables instead of poppies by offering subsidies. The farmers weren't too impressed because even with the subsidies they'd still be a lot worse off financially.
Yes to be fair the poppies are grown to allow them to eat they don't become rich off it and as you say the subsidies given by collation governments are never enough. I think personally that poverty brings more war to the world "
Poverty is definitely another cause of conflict though I don't know if it causes more than religion. Though I don't believe religion ever caused a war as such, rather intolerant people under a banner of religion. |
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By *VineMan
over a year ago
The right place |
There’s good and bad religion. And both have been co-opted by people to support their own power agendas.
The origin of the word religion comes from the same source that we get the word ligament from. If religion helps us reconnect, with each other, with the natural world, with the transcendent then I’m in. All the rest of it I’m not really interested in.
Although I am fascinated with the evolution of religion and faiths, particularly the Abrahamic ones, as that’s my heritage. |
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There is a subtle difference between religion and faith. In that religion requires faith, but faith does not require religion. Religion is the control mechanism to structure or organise faith, it is used for power or gain, why do you think each religion has such big religious structures? To glory their god or to cow the faithful?
Religion has and continues to be used as a mechanism to control large populations of people that have a common denominator; faith. Without its structure, people would be free to interpret their belief outside of controlling constructs designed to keep the wealthy/powerful the way they are. Essentially there would be less war without religion, because those that control the masses with its structure would be impotent. |
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"With or without religion people would still find reasons to be intolerant of a group of people because of a perceived difference. I'm not one for organised religion but I have seen individual's faith keep and guide them through tough times. "
Partially this.
I was more religious at the time my father died and my faith gave me comfort at that time.
Until the last 50 years or so - the vast majority of charitable works was done via religious organisations and without them the lives of the poor would have been even more wretched.
However - certain aspects of religion make me want to vomit - such as the vast wealth stored in vaults at the Vatican when many catholics (particularly in African nations) live in dire poverty - and the wealthy American preachers who make millions in personal wealth by conning their congregations. If there is a Jesus - he’ll be fuming!
Essentially- there’s a vast amount of both good and evil done in the name of God, Allah or other deity’s. |
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"There is a subtle difference between religion and faith. In that religion requires faith, but faith does not require religion. Religion is the control mechanism to structure or organise faith, it is used for power or gain, why do you think each religion has such big religious structures? To glory their god or to cow the faithful?
Religion has and continues to be used as a mechanism to control large populations of people that have a common denominator; faith. Without its structure, people would be free to interpret their belief outside of controlling constructs designed to keep the wealthy/powerful the way they are. Essentially there would be less war without religion, because those that control the masses with its structure would be impotent. "
Agreed. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"On balance, yes. Afghanistan is an awful example of what can happen from religion and its influences. We've had thousands of religions and they die out, meaning that they are likely not to have substance but to reflect human needs for control
Weird how the Taliban rails against the west and so many things are forbidden. They banned floppy discs (remember them) for example. 4x4s, rocket launchers, machine guns, they’re all right but floppy discs….ooooh no, won’t stand for them.
The taliban also outlawed poppy fields, once we took the taliban out of these areas then the farmers were able to regrow and sell (not knocking the farmers its the only way they can survive) which will now enable a heroin epidemic in years to come.
I remember reading some time ago that coalition forces were trying to encourage the farmers to grow potatoes and other vegetables instead of poppies by offering subsidies. The farmers weren't too impressed because even with the subsidies they'd still be a lot worse off financially.
Yes to be fair the poppies are grown to allow them to eat they don't become rich off it and as you say the subsidies given by collation governments are never enough. I think personally that poverty brings more war to the world
Poverty is definitely another cause of conflict though I don't know if it causes more than religion. Though I don't believe religion ever caused a war as such, rather intolerant people under a banner of religion. "
I think they come hand in glove in a lot of conflicts, poverty and power the need, religion the excuse to implement that plan |
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"There is a subtle difference between religion and faith. In that religion requires faith, but faith does not require religion. Religion is the control mechanism to structure or organise faith, it is used for power or gain, why do you think each religion has such big religious structures? To glory their god or to cow the faithful?
Religion has and continues to be used as a mechanism to control large populations of people that have a common denominator; faith. Without its structure, people would be free to interpret their belief outside of controlling constructs designed to keep the wealthy/powerful the way they are. Essentially there would be less war without religion, because those that control the masses with its structure would be impotent. "
What about knowledge and ideas, technology and traditions built up over decades and centuries? Should we say the same for science or medicine or our defences? I don't see why people fear religion in itself, it's just a faith and tradition as has been pointed out previously. Bad people are everywhere, all faiths, all races, all genders, right? Take something away and you create, guess what - a vacuum, to be filled, by good and bad people once again  |
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God was invented and most holy books were written by men for men and the whole i kike religion but not the extremist's ?? well without religion there would be no extremist's or rather religious extremists and most religious extremists actually aren't as they are quite literally living their life according to what is contained in their choosen holy books ?? it's the people who are in charge of the major religions who have moderated the views contained in the holy books to have mass appeal and also to keep in line with secular law and the the even more ironic thing is most followers of religion's would have killed each other off without secular law ?? and to burden children with mostly outdated world views and guilt complexs ? and loved the reports that are done that show quite clearly that children from a so called religous background/parents are far less empaphetic than those who are raised without religion and finally if you commit mass murder/torture you are evil ..apply in the name of your choosen god and don't even go there about the wholesale abuse of children by most major religions that they are still oh so busy in covering up or paying for ? and if any one person had such a miserable record of protecting children ...would they still be alllowed to run schools ?? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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As much as I hate religion (personal opinion), if it were to be eradicated I think it would just be replaced. Healing crystals, reiki, horoscopes, feng shui - even Marie Kondo-ing. Most people need a belief system, or at least a set of rules to live their lives by so they feel some sort of structure.
There might be an increase in cults too. Basically anything that gives purpose and meaning. Whatever it is would likely lead to "otherness", exclusion and, eventually, violence. |
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By *phroditeWoman
over a year ago
(She/ her) in Sensualityland |
Religion in itself is not the problem - it is when a religion is used to control, subjugate, manipulate and divide people.
If people need a religion to guide their moral and spiritual path through life, that is fine by me even though it is not for me.
If religion could be seen more as a form of mediation for people who choose to use it - no worries.
Afghanistan - I weep for what lies ahead for its people. |
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By *VineMan
over a year ago
The right place |
Wars are about power. Both political and religious ideologies often get used to get people to support them. But rarely is religion the sole cause.
Most religious thought has generated more good than harm. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" God was invented and most holy books were written by men for men and the whole i kike religion but not the extremist's ?? well without religion there would be no extremist's or rather religious extremists and most religious extremists actually aren't as they are quite literally living their life according to what is contained in their choosen holy books ?? it's the people who are in charge of the major religions who have moderated the views contained in the holy books to have mass appeal and also to keep in line with secular law and the the even more ironic thing is most followers of religion's would have killed each other off without secular law ?? and to burden children with mostly outdated world views and guilt complexs ? and loved the reports that are done that show quite clearly that children from a so called religous background/parents are far less empaphetic than those who are raised without religion and finally if you commit mass murder/torture you are evil ..apply in the name of your choosen god and don't even go there about the wholesale abuse of children by most major religions that they are still oh so busy in covering up or paying for ? and if any one person had such a miserable record of protecting children ...would they still be alllowed to run schools ??"
You are right In a lot of what you said but there are bad people in every organisation that are allowed to go back to work when things have gone terribly wrong (police, social services, teachers, doctors etc) whilst you have large organisations there will always be bad people in there, we are after all born with sin lol  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Religion in itself is not the problem - it is when a religion is used to control, subjugate, manipulate and divide people.
If people need a religion to guide their moral and spiritual path through life, that is fine by me even though it is not for me.
If religion could be seen more as a form of mediation for people who choose to use it - no worries.
Afghanistan - I weep for what lies ahead for its people. "
This for me if it helps you come to terms with something or lead a better life then there's nothing wrong in it. As John lennon wrote... 'whatever gets you through the night, its all right it's all right' |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Remove religion and it would be something else to cause wars over. Money/world resources/economies/power the list goes on
Some people rely on religion to give them faith,hope and strength. Take religion away and some will have nothing |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Remove religion and it would be something else to cause wars over. Money/world resources/economies/power the list goes on
Some people rely on religion to give them faith,hope and strength. Take religion away and some will have nothing "
Some might say that some religions were invented just for the purposes you have outlined, money, power, resources. |
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I would never support banning it by force, but there's no evidence that any religion is true so I don't think there's any point in following a religion. I don't know of any benefit from religion that can't come by secular means. |
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"According to the encyclopaedia of Wars, out of all 1,763 known historical conflicts, 123 (6.98%) had religion as their primary cause.
That's interesting!  "
I mean assuming it's true obviously, everyone always thinks they know everything because of a discussion on SM or down the pub or on here, when in reality...... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"According to the encyclopaedia of Wars, out of all 1,763 known historical conflicts, 123 (6.98%) had religion as their primary cause. "
Yes but 1 of those wars lasted 200 yrs (the crusades) and 11 out of 100 were the most prolific and life costly wars. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"According to the encyclopaedia of Wars, out of all 1,763 known historical conflicts, 123 (6.98%) had religion as their primary cause.
That's interesting!
I mean assuming it's true obviously, everyone always thinks they know everything because of a discussion on SM or down the pub or on here, when in reality......"
We trust Google |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Weve got over 7bn people on the planet now, imagine how many that would be of we didn't have religious zealots slaughtering each other from time to time or denying Covid-19 and vaccinations because God. Need em to keep going and get rid of a few more. |
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By *aresseTV/TS
over a year ago
Liverpool |
Depends how you distinguish between religion and faith . Faith in an afterlife and a guiding set of principles that usually tell us to love one another could only be a good thing surely .
It’s when it gets corrupted by a group in power that lays down the law and enjoys vengeance, that faith and organised religion diverge |
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1st invent the disease ..sin...then invent the cure ..religion ..by logic you can never ever be cured though as some of our thoughts will always be sinful and even some of deeds will deffo be sinful and just a rather nice ponzy scheme in the end though and a very good way to keep the masses in their places of course as ..."religion was invented to keep the poor from killing the rich" |
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It's not religion that's the problem. For many it's a very positive thing.
Fanatics, extremists, bigotry and the tenancy to dislike and mistrust differences, are the problem.
As others have said, there will always be reasons found to subjugation others or for violence. |
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Do you think democracy or law may have developed along the same lines as religion? Is it really much different from religion in that we follow it and it's processes and we can't just do as we wish when we like? |
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By *VineMan
over a year ago
The right place |
"According to the encyclopaedia of Wars, out of all 1,763 known historical conflicts, 123 (6.98%) had religion as their primary cause.
Yes but 1 of those wars lasted 200 yrs (the crusades) and 11 out of 100 were the most prolific and life costly wars. "
The crusades were as much political as they were religious. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"According to the encyclopaedia of Wars, out of all 1,763 known historical conflicts, 123 (6.98%) had religion as their primary cause.
Yes but 1 of those wars lasted 200 yrs (the crusades) and 11 out of 100 were the most prolific and life costly wars.
The crusades were as much political as they were religious. "
Essentially the same thing then though. Religion was so interlinked with how a nation was ran. But yeah they had other what we would call now "geopolitical" reasons |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I dont think we can ever get away from "Religion" Seems to be part of the human condition. People will always idolise something or someone. We are always looking to explain things to ourselves in ways we can understand with the knowledge we have at the time. Plus the whole being part of and accepted into a group is very powerful. Also since we still dont really know what happens to our consciousness after death there will always be some room for a belief in some sort of afterlife whatever that would or could be. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Do you think democracy or law may have developed along the same lines as religion? Is it really much different from religion in that we follow it and it's processes and we can't just do as we wish when we like? "
Our laws are all based on religious laws mainly the 10 commandments as they are seen to be a good stead for life and tbf they are a decent set of laws if you want to be a hood person. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"That's an odd question. Religion seems fair game to be bashed lately and I think it's awful personally. I think people should be free to practice as they wish. You wouldn't say the same thing about someone's other personal freedoms would you? Would the world be better if we had only one child each, if everyone dressed the same, if wealth was shared, if there was one race, if there was one sexuality etc. No, it'd be a worse place for the lack of freedom of choice "
The world would definitely be better if we only had one child each - assuming your definition of better includes things like reduced anthrogenic global warming, less habitat destruction and the like.
As others have said OP, religion isn't the problem, people are. People are tribal and will invent endless ways of identifying their tribe whether that is a shared football team, a shared lack of sexual success, a shared belief that animals should be treated without cruelty. In every such group there will be some who use their badge of belonging to justify vile behavoir against others.
We spend so much time looking at external reasons for our behaviour and that of other people. The truth is we are all human and will behave as humans whatever our surroundings. We kid ourselves that we are more enlightened now than those who lived in the past but in reality our behavoirs have not changed in thousands of years.
Mr |
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"Weve got over 7bn people on the planet now, imagine how many that would be of we didn't have religious zealots slaughtering each other from time to time or denying Covid-19 and vaccinations because God. Need em to keep going and get rid of a few more."
Sadly this is true!
War, famine, disease etc have always been the means by which the human population is controlled - as we have killed off any animal predators/threats.
If we eradicate these - and many governments are (half heartedly) trying to - then everyone dies of ‘old age’ and we have a massive global population explosion.
In that instance we need to get the population under control by effective contraception - which is problematic as many religions/sects are against contraception.
I doubt even David Attenborough could solve that one! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Plus we are probably the only Animal that is aware of its on mortality that we know of. So we will always be scared of our own death, religion gives people solice that it isnt the end. |
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By *tue555Man
over a year ago
Passed Beyond Reach |
"bit deep i know haha but would the world be better or worse without religion
i think theres pros and cons like the amount of war and death that happens in the name of religion but then i know people can get comfort from religion in times of stress or grief etc
are u one of those that says the bible says or the koran says or any other holy book says this so thats what ill do or do you prefer not to get involved???
what do u think lets have a debate haha"
Religion/faith has a purpose but like anything it is exploited by a few and forms a foundation of control and abuse. Was once heresy for Power corrupts, simples. People use faith and trust to further their own agenda
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By *r.SJMan
over a year ago
Wellingborough |
Nothing wrong with belief... but beg to differ on religion. I believe its become too much now of a machine, what is right, what is wrong and chastisement for disagreeing and or all out war.
If it was more encompassing maybe that would work but personally think it's beyond that.
My own beliefs are far more in tune with pagan and wiccan cultures and being in tune with our surroundings and the outside and with this comes the rule of three, do wrong and it'll come back three fold.
I do enjoy doorstep discussions with the religious types discussing this... |
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If you could wave a magic wand and religion disappeared in an instant, all remnants and memories of it vanished too, how long would it be before a con artist invented one? And how long before he gad followers? |
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"With or without religion people would still find reasons to be intolerant of a group of people because of a perceived difference. I'm not one for organised religion but I have seen individual's faith keep and guide them through tough times.
Partially this.
I was more religious at the time my father died and my faith gave me comfort at that time.
Until the last 50 years or so - the vast majority of charitable works was done via religious organisations and without them the lives of the poor would have been even more wretched.
However - certain aspects of religion make me want to vomit - such as the vast wealth stored in vaults at the Vatican when many catholics (particularly in African nations) live in dire poverty - and the wealthy American preachers who make millions in personal wealth by conning their congregations. If there is a Jesus - he’ll be fuming!
Essentially- there’s a vast amount of both good and evil done in the name of God, Allah or other deity’s. "
Totally agree. The basic concept of faith is a good thing and if it provides comfort for those in need all the better but religion often twists the ideals.
It's absolutely horrific that religious factions hoard wealth when so many are hungry, unclothed and homeless. Often the accumulation of that wealth is in conflict with the teachings they supposedly follow. You're on the money, God and/or Jesus would be fuming at how people treat their fellow man.
The things done in the name of people's deity is often terrible too. People are quite adept at not picking bits of a belief system and disregarding other bits to further their own ends.
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