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Take the knee?

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By *addy bare OP Man over a year ago

lakeside

So as the new football season is about to kick off,should we still be taking the knee?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

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By *reen31Man over a year ago

Hawick

If players want to it is there choice

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By *yron69Man over a year ago

Fareham

We?

Support our black citizens - yes.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

After the racist abuse of the 3 England players following the Euros finals, the answer is yes

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Yes, can't imagine why anyone would be against taking a stand (knee) against racism especially when the pl;ayers have said time and time again it has nothing to do with Marxism.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Has the issue been resolved?

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By *phroditeWoman over a year ago

(She/ her) in Sensualityland

"We?

Support our black citizens - yes."

Absolutely!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Definitely. If people are getting riled up about it and want it to stop then it's simple. Don't be a racist dickhead

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"So as the new football season is about to kick off,should we still be taking the knee? "

A more apt question would be, why should people not take the knee, and until the answer is clear with no dissent of those who are discriminated against then it should continue. Still do not understand why people object, it can only be because it pricks an unconscious, or conscious, bias.

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By *phroditeWoman over a year ago

(She/ her) in Sensualityland

"So as the new football season is about to kick off,should we still be taking the knee?

Well said!

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By *annia440Man over a year ago

greater London

It's a personal choice but I wouldn't do it

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Has the issue been resolved? "

This

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

As long as any player doesn't feel pressured into taking the knee, then it is perfectly reasonable for those who want to do so.

I enjoy getting green grass stains on my knees .....but that's for a different conversation all together!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

No one should be taking a knee!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It's a waste of time and energy. Racism will never stop, no matter what. People are free to do what they want but a racist isn't going to change their views just because some people go down on one knee on the telly!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"No one should be taking a knee!"

This

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By *heekyflickWoman over a year ago

LINCOLN

I read a comment somewhere that stated taking the knee for our black community is only highlighting the fact...you wouldn't take the knee for our white community....why it's just creating a bigger split between the two

Imho we are all human regardless of colour sex or anything else so should treat everyone the same anyway

Teaching racism by highlighting it is not a good thing

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By *hristopherd999Man over a year ago

Brentwood

"We?

Support our black citizens - yes."

It's about all racism

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By *ost SockMan over a year ago

West Wales and Cardiff

I’m fine with players doing it if they want to.

Liked being part of a Welsh support that applauded their players for doing it in recent times.

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By *moothCriminal_xMan over a year ago

Redditch

Nope. Taking the knee is tacit support of BLMGNF and an endorsement of violent hysterical rioting.

A symbol against racism that would work would be Stand Against Racism. All the controversy would disappear if players adopted the SAR approach - like the Scotland team etc...

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By *etcplCouple over a year ago

Gapping Fanny

Its highlighting disproportionate behaviour against a particular community, so yes they should.

Ignoring it or trying to brush it aside feeds ignorance.

Wether it be racism, sexism or anti LGBTQ+ sentiments, we should take a stand until these behaviours are a thing of the past.

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By *batMan over a year ago

Alicante, Spain. (Sometimes in Wales)

Teaching racism by highlighting it is not a good thing"

That's like saying don't mention crashes at a road safety lecture.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

As someone who faced/faces a lot of racism it’s a yes. I think it’s about perspective. If you’ve not experienced it , then yea the question makes sense because you’re right, why does it affect me? But for someone who does 100% it grows hope & confidence for us all.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I think it’s personal choice, I have nothing against players or teams decisions on it.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"No one should be taking a knee!"

Why not?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"No

So you support the right of players to take the knee if they want to?

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By *ora the explorerWoman over a year ago

Paradise, Herts

"I think it’s personal choice, I have nothing against players or teams decisions on it. "

This

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I read a comment somewhere that stated taking the knee for our black community is only highlighting the fact...you wouldn't take the knee for our white community....why it's just creating a bigger split between the two

Imho we are all human regardless of colour sex or anything else so should treat everyone the same anyway

Teaching racism by highlighting it is not a good thing"

So we should just ignore it and it will go away?

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By *batMan over a year ago

Alicante, Spain. (Sometimes in Wales)

"No

I guess we should also stop looking to cure cancer as well then? (And they aren't going down on one knee on the telly. It's in a huge football stadium which happens to get on the telly).

Gbat

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By *dwalu2Couple over a year ago

Bristol

Yes. It forces people to acknowledge and think about inequality and injustice via one of the most public stages.

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By *AURA6969TV/TS over a year ago

RUGBY

No, my reasoning is that you don't bow down or kneel down to racism bullying and the such like. You Stand up to racism and bullying. So I would much rather see teams STAND in a line link arms and stand in solidarity against racism and bullying.

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By *otMe66Man over a year ago

Terra Firma

"No

Taking the knee may not change a racist today, however it sends a message to the younger generations that racism is not to be tolerated. The message delivered by people of influence is changing attitudes today and going forward it is what I believe is needed to end racism.

People of influence, influencing for good

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"No, my reasoning is that you don't bow down or kneel down to racism bullying and the such like. You Stand up to racism and bullying. So I would much rather see teams STAND in a line link arms and stand in solidarity against racism and bullying. "

I like this a lot

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By *affron40Woman over a year ago

manchester

Yes. It’s not enough to just say you’re not racist. Things need to change to more people being actively anti racist.

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By *heekyflickWoman over a year ago

LINCOLN

Imho we are all human regardless of colour sex or anything else so should treat everyone the same anyway

Teaching racism by highlighting it is not a good thing

So we should just ignore it and it will go away?"

Not at all...I'm saying support and educate in a way that doesn't highlight it as being different for one and not the other...

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By *inkyME88Man over a year ago

London

I couldn't agree more, especially after the Euros. Racism is not a black or brown problem is everyone's problem, and until us see it as our...it will never stop.

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By *batMan over a year ago

Alicante, Spain. (Sometimes in Wales)

It's a sad fact that Black people are disproportionately attacked by the justice system.

When White people get the same treatment, they will get people taking the knee for them.

When Black people get the same treatment as White people, you can stop making gestures of solidarity as they will no longer be needed.

Gbat

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By *dwalu2Couple over a year ago

Bristol

"Yes. It’s not enough to just say you’re not racist. Things need to change to more people being actively anti racist. "

Yes.

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By *hunky GentMan over a year ago

Maldon and Peterborough

They could mix it up a bit.

Do the occasional juggling act or magic trick.

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By *AURA6969TV/TS over a year ago

RUGBY

I like this a lot

"
Thank you

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Surely it doesn't matter how players highglight racism? Taking a gesture popularised by Martin Luther King is surely a fitting way to do it?

Plus, it's not really a great look for white people to be telling people of colour how to protest against the racism that they are suffering.

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By *oco_devilleWoman over a year ago

Canterbury

"Has the issue been resolved? "

Yesssss THIS

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Imho we are all human regardless of colour sex or anything else so should treat everyone the same anyway

Teaching racism by highlighting it is not a good thing

So we should just ignore it and it will go away?

Not at all...I'm saying support and educate in a way that doesn't highlight it as being different for one and not the other..."

Why can't we do both? I realise that it makes some people feel uncomfortable to highlight the racism that is going on in our society but who are we, as white people, to tell people of colour how to protest against the racism that they, not us, are suffering?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If the players still want to then yes.

Is the act making a difference? It seems after the abuse our English players received the answer is no.

Would a stronger act have more affect? Would leaving the pitch get a better outcome? I realise that it is not everyone that is racist and if the game were to stop then it would affect the none racists but action needs to bd more?

If the players were fully backed by clubs and the association by acting strongly then would this work better?

All just questions …. But more is needed … the powers that be need to act too

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By *dwalu2Couple over a year ago

Bristol

Surely it doesn't matter how players highglight racism? Taking a gesture popularised by Martin Luther King is surely a fitting way to do it?

Plus, it's not really a great look for white people to be telling people of colour how to protest against the racism that they are suffering."

Exactly. The essence of what they are saying is ‘highlight the racism you experience in a way that is more performatively acceptable to me, and easier to ignore for others’.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"So as the new football season is about to kick off,should we still be taking the knee? "

While racism is endemic absolutely.

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By *heekyflickWoman over a year ago

LINCOLN

Imho we are all human regardless of colour sex or anything else so should treat everyone the same anyway

Teaching racism by highlighting it is not a good thing

So we should just ignore it and it will go away?

Not at all...I'm saying support and educate in a way that doesn't highlight it as being different for one and not the other...

As I stated "I read a comment" I'm not in any way racist nor do I agree with how people are treated.

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By *ftereightMan over a year ago

SouthEast

I find blm divisive and way to political...and so much anger seems to surround it on both sides. I would prefer a message or symbol looking to the future.. where we are humanity and together we stand side by side no matter colour, sexual identity or gender (or vaccine status!). In my mind im colour blind your either a good person or your a not.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Imho we are all human regardless of colour sex or anything else so should treat everyone the same anyway

Teaching racism by highlighting it is not a good thing

So we should just ignore it and it will go away?

Not at all...I'm saying support and educate in a way that doesn't highlight it as being different for one and not the other...

As I stated "I read a comment" I'm not in any way racist nor do I agree with how people are treated. "

I didn't say you were racist but what you seemed to be saying is that you didn't agree with footballers highlighting that racism is a problem in this country (and elsewhere).

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I find blm divisive and way to political...and so much anger seems to surround it on both sides. I would prefer a message or symbol looking to the future.. where we are humanity and together we stand side by side no matter colour, sexual identity or gender (or vaccine status!). In my mind im colour blind your either a good person or your a not. "

Are you white?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"No one should be taking a knee!"

I see what you've done there

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"No

So you support the right of players to take the knee if they want to?"

If they want to do it then crack on, but it all seems to be a little forced. If my team mate took the knee beside me and I just started randomly warming up for the game by doing star jumps, I'd be deemed a racist.

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By *orace pinkerMan over a year ago

North west

I got racially abused just last week,3 or 5 lads shouting at me from a passing car

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By *os19Man over a year ago

Edmonton

After the abuse of the England black players missing penalties in the Euro 2020 final perhaps now more so than ever the players should continue to take the knee.The only thing I would do differently is why only 20-30 seconds why not a minute or two minutes give people a bit more time to reflect on why the players are on their knees.

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By *batMan over a year ago

Alicante, Spain. (Sometimes in Wales)

"together we stand side by side no matter [ ... ] vaccine status!. "

You were doing okay until this point. Your vaccine status might have a devastating effect on my families health!

Gbat

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By *arry monk40Man over a year ago

Telford

What does it mean

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"No

People of influence, influencing for good "

How is taking the knee showing it wont be tolerated? You're literally kneeling in front of the racists. You're kneeling before them like you're surrendering! How ironic is that?!

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By *agertha73Couple over a year ago

Cardiff

"Yes. It’s not enough to just say you’re not racist. Things need to change to more people being actively anti racist.

Yes.

Yes they should continue until the message penetrates the general population. Which will be a long time. Decades, if not longer. Bad ideas take a long time to dissipate and even then, can resurface.

Him x

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By *dwalu2Couple over a year ago

Bristol

"No

People of influence, influencing for good

How is taking the knee showing it wont be tolerated? You're literally kneeling in front of the racists. You're kneeling before them like you're surrendering! How ironic is that?! "

Unsurprisingly, no-one has ever interpreted it this way. So not ironic at all is the answer.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"So as the new football season is about to kick off,should we still be taking the knee? "

Just wondering if any changes came with it in the end?

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By *phroditeWoman over a year ago

(She/ her) in Sensualityland

"If the players still want to then yes.

Is the act making a difference? It seems after the abuse our English players received the answer is no.

If the players were fully backed by clubs and the association by acting strongly then would this work better?

All just questions …. But more is needed … the powers that be need to act too "

A team recently left a football pitch in protest "Olympic football team have walked off the pitch during a friendly against Honduras after alleged racial abuse directed at their player Jordan Torunarigha."

You can do all sorts to show your support against racism. I like the idea of linking arms, too.

It is not one gesture over another - anything that will highlight racism is fine with me. Just because racism is still alive, it does not mean we stop trying.

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By *phroditeWoman over a year ago

(She/ her) in Sensualityland

"No

People of influence, influencing for good

How is taking the knee showing it wont be tolerated? You're literally kneeling in front of the racists. You're kneeling before them like you're surrendering! How ironic is that?! "

Personally, I see the kneeling just as a sign of respect and humility towards any human. I do not see it as being submissive at all.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"If the players still want to then yes.

Is the act making a difference? It seems after the abuse our English players received the answer is no.

If the players were fully backed by clubs and the association by acting strongly then would this work better?

All just questions …. But more is needed … the powers that be need to act too

You can do all sorts to show your support against racism. I like the idea of linking arms, too.

It is not one gesture over another - anything that will highlight racism is fine with me. Just because racism is still alive, it does not mean we stop trying."

Very much agreed … but if stronger acts like walking off the pitch were to affect others I.e those at the game then maybe those who aren’t racists will call out the racists…which will assist those to identify the racists and haul them out the ground with a lifetime ban

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

100%. No room for any abuse in this planet be it Racism or Sexism or any other form...taking the knee and bringing everyone together to fight it is a great idea. Until there is something done about it. Football teams get fined more for kicking off late than they do for their fans racially abusing players...until tough and hard sanctions are introduced keep.standing against the racist filth ...

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By *host63Man over a year ago

Bedfont Feltham

As someone said their choice.

If you're offended by someone showing theybare against racism however they choose to state it, then you are the problem.

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By *dwalu2Couple over a year ago

Bristol

"So as the new football season is about to kick off,should we still be taking the knee?

Just wondering if any changes came with it in the end?"

It caused nationwide dialogue about the racism that still exists in this country, caused many to consider whether they were contributing to that existence, and many more to publicly make it known they stand against racism who would otherwise never have done so. So there was a positive change.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"No

People of influence, influencing for good

How is taking the knee showing it wont be tolerated? You're literally kneeling in front of the racists. You're kneeling before them like you're surrendering! How ironic is that?! "

Not ironic at all because this is not Game of Thrones and people don't see taking the knee as a submissive act.

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By *host63Man over a year ago

Bedfont Feltham

"No one should be taking a knee!"

Why shouldn't they take the knee, and why is it bothering you?

That's the real question

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By *asmartsCouple over a year ago

sheffield

Yes, it creates conversations about racism and it’s talking that will eventually solve the issue.

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By *phroditeWoman over a year ago

(She/ her) in Sensualityland

"No one should be taking a knee!

Why shouldn't they take the knee, and why is it bothering you?

That's the real question "

In a nutshell!

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By *ora the explorerWoman over a year ago

Paradise, Herts

"No one should be taking a knee!

Why shouldn't they take the knee, and why is it bothering you?

That's the real question "

I think this may have been sarcasm. I could be wrong though

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"No

People of influence, influencing for good

How is taking the knee showing it wont be tolerated? You're literally kneeling in front of the racists. You're kneeling before them like you're surrendering! How ironic is that?!

Not ironic at all because this is not Game of Thrones and people don't see taking the knee as a submissive act."

I actually thought that the kneeling was because Mr Floyd was knelt on!

They can do it however they like. Go marching, take a knee on national telly, they can write something on the moon for all I care. Nothing and I repeat "NOTHING" will ever stop racism happening.

They are literally promoting racism.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

While there is still people who question taking the knee then taking the knee is still relevant

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By *LiamMan over a year ago

Midlands

I'd take a knee for ny black brothers

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Look what you started hotjizz

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By *LiamMan over a year ago

Midlands

"I'd take a knee for my black brothers"
I really need to start checking before I post

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"No one should be taking a knee!

Why shouldn't they take the knee, and why is it bothering you?

That's the real question "

I think it's great that footballers taking the knee to highlight the issue of racism is making people uncomfortable. Hopefully it will enable people to take the next step and ask themselves the questions you are talking about.

We are all biased subconsciously about one thing or another, it's only by being able toi admit it that we are able to work on it and become better people.

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By *dwalu2Couple over a year ago

Bristol

"No

People of influence, influencing for good

How is taking the knee showing it wont be tolerated? You're literally kneeling in front of the racists. You're kneeling before them like you're surrendering! How ironic is that?!

Not ironic at all because this is not Game of Thrones and people don't see taking the knee as a submissive act.

I actually thought that the kneeling was because Mr Floyd was knelt on!

They can do it however they like. Go marching, take a knee on national telly, they can write something on the moon for all I care. Nothing and I repeat "NOTHING" will ever stop racism happening.

They are literally promoting racism. "

You seem to be very confused.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"No

People of influence, influencing for good

How is taking the knee showing it wont be tolerated? You're literally kneeling in front of the racists. You're kneeling before them like you're surrendering! How ironic is that?!

Not ironic at all because this is not Game of Thrones and people don't see taking the knee as a submissive act.

I actually thought that the kneeling was because Mr Floyd was knelt on!

They can do it however they like. Go marching, take a knee on national telly, they can write something on the moon for all I care. Nothing and I repeat "NOTHING" will ever stop racism happening.

They are literally promoting racism. "

Do hospitals promote illness?

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By *phroditeWoman over a year ago

(She/ her) in Sensualityland

"No

People of influence, influencing for good

How is taking the knee showing it wont be tolerated? You're literally kneeling in front of the racists. You're kneeling before them like you're surrendering! How ironic is that?!

Not ironic at all because this is not Game of Thrones and people don't see taking the knee as a submissive act.

I actually thought that the kneeling was because Mr Floyd was knelt on!

They can do it however they like. Go marching, take a knee on national telly, they can write something on the moon for all I care. Nothing and I repeat "NOTHING" will ever stop racism happening.

They are literally promoting racism. "
I had not thought of the kneeling gesture in that way but perhaps it is.

So if a stain on humanity like racism, is not being stopped by gestures then what hope is there for the non-white communities? And what hope would there have been for the LGBT communities... and many others, naming just two as an example.

I believe change starts with small positive gestures and educating people. How else would you suggest there is any hope for change? Genuine question.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"No

People of influence, influencing for good

How is taking the knee showing it wont be tolerated? You're literally kneeling in front of the racists. You're kneeling before them like you're surrendering! How ironic is that?!

Not ironic at all because this is not Game of Thrones and people don't see taking the knee as a submissive act.

I actually thought that the kneeling was because Mr Floyd was knelt on!

They can do it however they like. Go marching, take a knee on national telly, they can write something on the moon for all I care. Nothing and I repeat "NOTHING" will ever stop racism happening.

They are literally promoting racism.

Do hospitals promote illness?"

No but the government and pharmaceutical companies do!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"So as the new football season is about to kick off,should we still be taking the knee?

Just wondering if any changes came with it in the end?

I stood in rally's carrying big boards stating racial discrimination - that was the 80's... Did the knee have more of an impact, change the minds of the abusive ones..... can't see that on other media platforms ...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I actually thought that the kneeling was because Mr Floyd was knelt on!

They can do it however they like. Go marching, take a knee on national telly, they can write something on the moon for all I care. Nothing and I repeat "NOTHING" will ever stop racism happening.

They are literally promoting racism. "

Well if nothing is going to stop racism we might as well just give up then and accept it.

And its HIGHLIGHTING not promoting

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By *bostCouple over a year ago

glasgow

Of course. There is deep ingrained racism in this country and it won’t just disappear overnight. Anything that chips away at it should be applauded.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"No

People of influence, influencing for good

How is taking the knee showing it wont be tolerated? You're literally kneeling in front of the racists. You're kneeling before them like you're surrendering! How ironic is that?!

Not ironic at all because this is not Game of Thrones and people don't see taking the knee as a submissive act.

I actually thought that the kneeling was because Mr Floyd was knelt on!

They can do it however they like. Go marching, take a knee on national telly, they can write something on the moon for all I care. Nothing and I repeat "NOTHING" will ever stop racism happening.

They are literally promoting racism. I had not thought of the kneeling gesture in that way but perhaps it is.

I believe change starts with small positive gestures and educating people. How else would you suggest there is any hope for change? Genuine question. "

It needs to be taught better in schools and it needs to be shown that it's not just non whites that receive race hate. Races need to be able to mix more rather than sticking to their "own kind" and in communities. As long as older generations of racists still exist, there will always be an element of racism at home.

Racism will never fully stop but it just might calm down a little

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"No

People of influence, influencing for good

How is taking the knee showing it wont be tolerated? You're literally kneeling in front of the racists. You're kneeling before them like you're surrendering! How ironic is that?!

Not ironic at all because this is not Game of Thrones and people don't see taking the knee as a submissive act.

I actually thought that the kneeling was because Mr Floyd was knelt on!

They can do it however they like. Go marching, take a knee on national telly, they can write something on the moon for all I care. Nothing and I repeat "NOTHING" will ever stop racism happening.

They are literally promoting racism.

Do hospitals promote illness?

No but the government and pharmaceutical companies do!"

But death is inevitable and curing illnesses is just pointless, all hospitals are doing are literally promoting illnbess by trying to do something about it.

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By *immyinreadingMan over a year ago

henley on thames

"So as the new football season is about to kick off,should we still be taking the knee? "

We? You are a professional footballer?

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By *phroditeWoman over a year ago

(She/ her) in Sensualityland

"No

People of influence, influencing for good

How is taking the knee showing it wont be tolerated? You're literally kneeling in front of the racists. You're kneeling before them like you're surrendering! How ironic is that?!

Not ironic at all because this is not Game of Thrones and people don't see taking the knee as a submissive act.

I actually thought that the kneeling was because Mr Floyd was knelt on!

They can do it however they like. Go marching, take a knee on national telly, they can write something on the moon for all I care. Nothing and I repeat "NOTHING" will ever stop racism happening.

They are literally promoting racism. I had not thought of the kneeling gesture in that way but perhaps it is.

I believe change starts with small positive gestures and educating people. How else would you suggest there is any hope for change? Genuine question.

Racism will never fully stop but it just might calm down a little"

Understand what you are saying - at work we have Anti bias training at least once a year, it focusses on skin colour but also on other issues such as LGTB, sexism, ageism etc. It is quite effective as it makes (most) people think. There are some "die-hards" who refuse to acknowledge that we do not live in a perfect society though.

I agree with you on education at an early age, before prejudices can be internalised and become hard-wired in the young brain, for sure!

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By *jorkishMan over a year ago

Seaforth

"No

People of influence, influencing for good

How is taking the knee showing it wont be tolerated? You're literally kneeling in front of the racists. You're kneeling before them like you're surrendering! How ironic is that?!

Not ironic at all because this is not Game of Thrones and people don't see taking the knee as a submissive act.

I actually thought that the kneeling was because Mr Floyd was knelt on!

They can do it however they like. Go marching, take a knee on national telly, they can write something on the moon for all I care. Nothing and I repeat "NOTHING" will ever stop racism happening.

They are literally promoting racism. I had not thought of the kneeling gesture in that way but perhaps it is.

I believe change starts with small positive gestures and educating people. How else would you suggest there is any hope for change? Genuine question.

Racism will never fully stop but it just might calm down a little

I agree with you on education at an early age, before prejudices can be internalised and become hard-wired in the young brain, for sure!"

You're correct regarding education but it also needs parents are in board too and that is where the problem. We are not born racist, it is something that children hear and witness.

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By *oudLoutishLoverWoman over a year ago

Colchester

As long as there are people, there will be racism.

Bit of awareness doesn’t hurt anyone, I guess, particularly as football tends to appeal to the shittier people.

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By *phroditeWoman over a year ago

(She/ her) in Sensualityland

I agree with you on education at an early age, before prejudices can be internalised and become hard-wired in the young brain, for sure!

You're correct regarding education but it also needs parents are in board too and that is where the problem. We are not born racist, it is something that children hear and witness. "

ABsolutely agree with you - parents have perhaps the most crucial role. I am just thinking that a child that grows up in a racist environment at home, at least has the change to challenge the thinking when they are getting a more humane message from school.