FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Flooding and climate change
Flooding and climate change
Jump to: Newest in thread
Having just watched the news for the first time in about a year... And seeing the dread images from Western Europe and london of flooding... It was then lazily segued into the climate change agenda.
Now I admit I don't know much on the subject matter. But it really doesn't susprise me that when you Concrete over most of a country... Don't clean or maintain. Its drainage or waterways... Remove the trees that maintain integrity and drainage of land....that when it rains hard for a few days...whe. You build estates and road systems on flood plains... Then we are going to get flooding... I'm not saying climate change is irrelevant but surely there's a lot more that is in our control that is a good deal more relevant than trying to turn back the ride.... (images of King neptune in the waves spring to mind).
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
 |
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Having just watched the news for the first time in about a year... And seeing the dread images from Western Europe and london of flooding... It was then lazily segued into the climate change agenda.
Now I admit I don't know much on the subject matter. But it really doesn't susprise me that when you Concrete over most of a country... Don't clean or maintain. Its drainage or waterways... Remove the trees that maintain integrity and drainage of land....that when it rains hard for a few days...whe. You build estates and road systems on flood plains... Then we are going to get flooding... I'm not saying climate change is irrelevant but surely there's a lot more that is in our control that is a good deal more relevant than trying to turn back the ride.... (images of King neptune in the waves spring to mind).
"
You're absolutely right and then there's the Milankovitch theory. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *icearmsMan
over a year ago
KIDLINGTON |
The additional infrastructure builds in the country are obviously not good and impact on us in terms of floods.
However what you cannot deny is the fact that we now get more than a month of rain in a few hours. Not a lot would be able to cope with this, cleaning of drains etc. As they are not build to cope with such an influx of water. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
I’ll be honest here, has anyone ever actually seen an ice cap melt with their own eyes? I haven’t
There’s that 1 video of some ice falling off into the sea, but that’s it, has anyone even seen it actually happening?
Plus, when all that I’ve falls off, it’s like a big ice cube. And it cools down the ocean, so if anything it’s good |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I’ll be honest here, has anyone ever actually seen an ice cap melt with their own eyes? I haven’t
There’s that 1 video of some ice falling off into the sea, but that’s it, has anyone even seen it actually happening?
Plus, when all that I’ve falls off, it’s like a big ice cube. And it cools down the ocean, so if anything it’s good "
Not to many icebergs in reading....your argument is the same as if a tree falls in the Forrest..... |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I’ll be honest here, has anyone ever actually seen an ice cap melt with their own eyes? I haven’t
There’s that 1 video of some ice falling off into the sea, but that’s it, has anyone even seen it actually happening?
Plus, when all that I’ve falls off, it’s like a big ice cube. And it cools down the ocean, so if anything it’s good
Not to many icebergs in reading....your argument is the same as if a tree falls in the Forrest....."
I love that the part of my satire collect you took dislike to was that there aren’t any ice bergs in reading
And not the part where I said an ice cap is like a giant ice cube that’s cools down the ocean |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I’ll be honest here, has anyone ever actually seen an ice cap melt with their own eyes? I haven’t
There’s that 1 video of some ice falling off into the sea, but that’s it, has anyone even seen it actually happening?
Plus, when all that I’ve falls off, it’s like a big ice cube. And it cools down the ocean, so if anything it’s good
Not to many icebergs in reading....your argument is the same as if a tree falls in the Forrest.....
I love that the part of my satire collect you took dislike to was that there aren’t any ice bergs in reading
And not the part where I said an ice cap is like a giant ice cube that’s cools down the ocean "
No I picked up on icebergs in reading lol |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I’ll be honest here, has anyone ever actually seen an ice cap melt with their own eyes? I haven’t
There’s that 1 video of some ice falling off into the sea, but that’s it, has anyone even seen it actually happening?
Plus, when all that I’ve falls off, it’s like a big ice cube. And it cools down the ocean, so if anything it’s good
Not to many icebergs in reading....your argument is the same as if a tree falls in the Forrest.....
I love that the part of my satire collect you took dislike to was that there aren’t any ice bergs in reading
And not the part where I said an ice cap is like a giant ice cube that’s cools down the ocean "
No but I've seen year on year satellite imagery of icecaps, glaciers etc and you'd need to be stupid to deny what's happening. They are shrinking back like crazy, permafrost is melting and releasing methane. We are fucked. Big time. I think Lovelock's tipping points have already been passed. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I’ll be honest here, has anyone ever actually seen an ice cap melt with their own eyes? I haven’t
There’s that 1 video of some ice falling off into the sea, but that’s it, has anyone even seen it actually happening?
Plus, when all that I’ve falls off, it’s like a big ice cube. And it cools down the ocean, so if anything it’s good
Not to many icebergs in reading....your argument is the same as if a tree falls in the Forrest.....
I love that the part of my satire collect you took dislike to was that there aren’t any ice bergs in reading
And not the part where I said an ice cap is like a giant ice cube that’s cools down the ocean
No but I've seen year on year satellite imagery of icecaps, glaciers etc and you'd need to be stupid to deny what's happening. They are shrinking back like crazy, permafrost is melting and releasing methane. We are fucked. Big time. I think Lovelock's tipping points have already been passed. "
All I’m saying is I haven’t seen it and I wouldn’t trust pictures from nasa |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"The additional infrastructure builds in the country are obviously not good and impact on us in terms of floods.
However what you cannot deny is the fact that we now get more than a month of rain in a few hours. Not a lot would be able to cope with this, cleaning of drains etc. As they are not build to cope with such an influx of water. "
Meh... Not sure I agree with that.. Where Ive lived the last 20 years... They just tarmac over the entire road.. Then go back with a metal detector and break out the drain aways... Over the years not surprisingly... Any rain now just floods the road. Had they maintained the drains appropriately it would not have. That's nothing to do with climate and everything to do with a shitty local authority and contractor.
We've always had storms and always had droughts. They may be getting worse....but we've made it a whole lot worse with what we build and where... When did you last see a waterway being dredged? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *icearmsMan
over a year ago
KIDLINGTON |
"The additional infrastructure builds in the country are obviously not good and impact on us in terms of floods.
However what you cannot deny is the fact that we now get more than a month of rain in a few hours. Not a lot would be able to cope with this, cleaning of drains etc. As they are not build to cope with such an influx of water.
Meh... Not sure I agree with that.. Where Ive lived the last 20 years... They just tarmac over the entire road.. Then go back with a metal detector and break out the drain aways... Over the years not surprisingly... Any rain now just floods the road. Had they maintained the drains appropriately it would not have. That's nothing to do with climate and everything to do with a shitty local authority and contractor.
We've always had storms and always had droughts. They may be getting worse....but we've made it a whole lot worse with what we build and where... When did you last see a waterway being dredged? "
I agree that this is a big problem and said so in my post. But the fact is 2 weeks ago Kew Gardens recorded the average rainfall for July in 2 hours.. so when that happens there is bound to be flooding.
When we see December and January being the wettest on record that means more water to cope with. Yes there's nowhere for it to run to flood plains etc but there is more water falling g than ever before. The two don't mix. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *icearmsMan
over a year ago
KIDLINGTON |
"I’ll be honest here, has anyone ever actually seen an ice cap melt with their own eyes? I haven’t
There’s that 1 video of some ice falling off into the sea, but that’s it, has anyone even seen it actually happening?
Plus, when all that I’ve falls off, it’s like a big ice cube. And it cools down the ocean, so if anything it’s good
Not to many icebergs in reading....your argument is the same as if a tree falls in the Forrest.....
I love that the part of my satire collect you took dislike to was that there aren’t any ice bergs in reading
And not the part where I said an ice cap is like a giant ice cube that’s cools down the ocean
No I picked up on icebergs in reading lol "
Don't know mate it can be chilly down here.. the canal froze over any everything. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *tew008Man
over a year ago
edinburgh |
"The additional infrastructure builds in the country are obviously not good and impact on us in terms of floods.
However what you cannot deny is the fact that we now get more than a month of rain in a few hours. Not a lot would be able to cope with this, cleaning of drains etc. As they are not build to cope with such an influx of water.
Meh... Not sure I agree with that.. Where Ive lived the last 20 years... They just tarmac over the entire road.. Then go back with a metal detector and break out the drain aways... Over the years not surprisingly... Any rain now just floods the road. Had they maintained the drains appropriately it would not have. That's nothing to do with climate and everything to do with a shitty local authority and contractor.
We've always had storms and always had droughts. They may be getting worse....but we've made it a whole lot worse with what we build and where... When did you last see a waterway being dredged? "
There is only so much we can do. If it did get back to the old pre-ice age flood plains. England would be screwed. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"The additional infrastructure builds in the country are obviously not good and impact on us in terms of floods.
However what you cannot deny is the fact that we now get more than a month of rain in a few hours. Not a lot would be able to cope with this, cleaning of drains etc. As they are not build to cope with such an influx of water.
Meh... Not sure I agree with that.. Where Ive lived the last 20 years... They just tarmac over the entire road.. Then go back with a metal detector and break out the drain aways... Over the years not surprisingly... Any rain now just floods the road. Had they maintained the drains appropriately it would not have. That's nothing to do with climate and everything to do with a shitty local authority and contractor.
We've always had storms and always had droughts. They may be getting worse....but we've made it a whole lot worse with what we build and where... When did you last see a waterway being dredged?
I agree that this is a big problem and said so in my post. But the fact is 2 weeks ago Kew Gardens recorded the average rainfall for July in 2 hours.. so when that happens there is bound to be flooding.
When we see December and January being the wettest on record that means more water to cope with. Yes there's nowhere for it to run to flood plains etc but there is more water falling g than ever before. The two don't mix. "
Given that the river Thames bounds Kew it would take quite some design to get kew to flood at all. I'm not denying it had a lot of rain. But rain happens. Water runs downhill. If you build stuff below the water table dont be surprised if sometimes it gets wet. 1970s o level geography. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I’ll be honest here, has anyone ever actually seen an ice cap melt with their own eyes? I haven’t
There’s that 1 video of some ice falling off into the sea, but that’s it, has anyone even seen it actually happening?
Plus, when all that I’ve falls off, it’s like a big ice cube. And it cools down the ocean, so if anything it’s good
Not to many icebergs in reading....your argument is the same as if a tree falls in the Forrest.....
I love that the part of my satire collect you took dislike to was that there aren’t any ice bergs in reading
And not the part where I said an ice cap is like a giant ice cube that’s cools down the ocean
No but I've seen year on year satellite imagery of icecaps, glaciers etc and you'd need to be stupid to deny what's happening. They are shrinking back like crazy, permafrost is melting and releasing methane. We are fucked. Big time. I think Lovelock's tipping points have already been passed.
All I’m saying is I haven’t seen it and I wouldn’t trust pictures from nasa "
I've been to the Alps and seen the bare rock left behind by retreating glaciers. Whether you chose to believe in climate change or not that is definitely real.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Op, you are off course correct that there are all kinds of things that can be done to reduce the impact of severe weather events, the worrying thing is the frequency and severity of these events.
No one can say this flood or that wildfire was caused by climate change, we had floods and wildfires before. What we can say though is "This record has stood for 70 years and just been broken, that is the hottest ever recorded, the wettest ever recorded, the windiest ever recorded, not since 1897, last time we saw rain like this was 19 whatever" etc etc. Obviously records would occasionally get broken but when year after year we see new records being set, events that would once have been considered probable only once a decade, even once a century happening every other year etc it's clear the problem is a bit bigger than a blocked drain. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Op, you are off course correct that there are all kinds of things that can be done to reduce the impact of severe weather events, the worrying thing is the frequency and severity of these events.
No one can say this flood or that wildfire was caused by climate change, we had floods and wildfires before. What we can say though is "This record has stood for 70 years and just been broken, that is the hottest ever recorded, the wettest ever recorded, the windiest ever recorded, not since 1897, last time we saw rain like this was 19 whatever" etc etc. Obviously records would occasionally get broken but when year after year we see new records being set, events that would once have been considered probable only once a decade, even once a century happening every other year etc it's clear the problem is a bit bigger than a blocked drain."
Agree with that absolutely. For me there are a few things though... Linking freak weather events and using it to drive some political movement is fallacious. And the delusion that if we all swap to low energy light bulbs or electric cars it will all be OK... But buying my lightbulbs and car batteries from China somehow makes sense.
Glaciers retreating isn't a man made phenomenon. It happens. We have choices.
Either do something or don't. Nobody is not going to take a holiday flight because they are worried about the pollution they are leaving behind. Or switch off the Olympics because of the pollution footprint and damage of flying 30000 Co letitors from 150 countries around the world. So we need to be a bit better prepared for freak events and stop cutting corners. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ad NannaWoman
over a year ago
East London |
The government decided to build thousands of flats in Greater London areas; ours being built on marshland, and we now have flooding every time it rains heavily.
For the first time that I can remember Barking High Street was in at least a foot of water yesterday. How can the people who cover the ground in impermeable materials not know the water can't go anywhere.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Op, you are off course correct that there are all kinds of things that can be done to reduce the impact of severe weather events, the worrying thing is the frequency and severity of these events.
No one can say this flood or that wildfire was caused by climate change, we had floods and wildfires before. What we can say though is "This record has stood for 70 years and just been broken, that is the hottest ever recorded, the wettest ever recorded, the windiest ever recorded, not since 1897, last time we saw rain like this was 19 whatever" etc etc. Obviously records would occasionally get broken but when year after year we see new records being set, events that would once have been considered probable only once a decade, even once a century happening every other year etc it's clear the problem is a bit bigger than a blocked drain.
Agree with that absolutely. For me there are a few things though... Linking freak weather events and using it to drive some political movement is fallacious. And the delusion that if we all swap to low energy light bulbs or electric cars it will all be OK... But buying my lightbulbs and car batteries from China somehow makes sense.
Glaciers retreating isn't a man made phenomenon. It happens. We have choices.
Either do something or don't. Nobody is not going to take a holiday flight because they are worried about the pollution they are leaving behind. Or switch off the Olympics because of the pollution footprint and damage of flying 30000 Co letitors from 150 countries around the world. So we need to be a bit better prepared for freak events and stop cutting corners. "
What is your evidence for saying glacial retreat isn't man made?
Mr |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
To be honest I think we may have added a little but mostly I think we are just in a warming up period of the planets global climate.
When you look at climate across the ages you realise that these things happened without man helping it.
I have seen the flooding and think... well if you will keep building on flood plains.. or so close to rivers. Or removing natures natural drainage. Then this will happen. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *tew008Man
over a year ago
edinburgh |
It’s a huge complicated field. We produce CO2, no one can deny that, even if they deny global warming is man made.
If you want to do some easy analysis. Have a jar of oxygen and a jar of carbon dioxide. Then touch each them. Which one is hot? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *tew008Man
over a year ago
edinburgh |
"I’ll be honest here, has anyone ever actually seen an ice cap melt with their own eyes? I haven’t
There’s that 1 video of some ice falling off into the sea, but that’s it, has anyone even seen it actually happening?
Plus, when all that I’ve falls off, it’s like a big ice cube. And it cools down the ocean, so if anything it’s good
Not to many icebergs in reading....your argument is the same as if a tree falls in the Forrest.....
I love that the part of my satire collect you took dislike to was that there aren’t any ice bergs in reading
And not the part where I said an ice cap is like a giant ice cube that’s cools down the ocean
No but I've seen year on year satellite imagery of icecaps, glaciers etc and you'd need to be stupid to deny what's happening. They are shrinking back like crazy, permafrost is melting and releasing methane. We are fucked. Big time. I think Lovelock's tipping points have already been passed.
All I’m saying is I haven’t seen it and I wouldn’t trust pictures from nasa "
NOAA satellite feeds aren’t encrypted so you can verify yourself  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
Okay as someone whose jobs this is I am going to try and play nice.
Fundamentally there is a difference between climate change and weather. Climate change is something that occurs over a long period of time and is global. Weather is local and subject to many nuances of air pressure, wind direction, temperature, humidity etc.
So. A changing climate can impact many or all of the variables that affect the weather, but you may see very little variation (we have always had extremes, right?) The problem is that climate change is affecting weather patterns, whilst we may have the same amount of rainfall on an annual basis, it actually now tends to occur in “bursts”. Drainage systems and flood defences were designed with the previous climate paradigm, offering a standard of protection against say a 1 in 100 year event (look up AEP probabilities it may help), however a 1 in 100 year event may now be (due to climate change) a 1 in 50 year event and a 1 in 1000 year event (usually catastrophic) may now be a 1 in 100 year event.
It is important to note that these are percentile probabilities you can have 3 x 1 in 50 year events in a year and then nothing for 150 years that’s the way probability works.
Yes concreting everything and removing trees (up to 60% of rainfall can evaporate from the canopy, never hitting the ground) is increasing our risk. But the simple truth is that water management systems were developed for a predictable climate where we could install these systems to offer a standard of protection, this is now being exceeded on a regular basis, hence flooding.
“Well upgrade the systems then”, the sad fact is that all drainage renewal or flood defence engineering is permitted on a cost/benefit analysis basis, if the cost of the scheme is greater (and in many instances will be due to the nature of our infrastructure), than the cost of the predicted damages of a flooding event, the scheme will not go forward.
The climate isn’t changing (or rather it is, it is always changing), but today, our climate HAS changed significantly from what it was 50 years ago, these has led to more extremes of weather, beyond the ability of the systems we designed put in to cope.
Watch this 40sec animation on country temperature anomalies it is quite helpful to understand how this could cause extreme weather events
https://youtu.be/PhbdyNnUliM |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"To be honest I think ....
When you look at climate across the ages you realise "
I love comments like these. What they basically mean is I've looked at a few graphs, watched a few YouTube videos, maybe even had a browse through Wikipedia. I now believe that I know enough to give a different interpretation to the data than that which is widely accepted by the scientific community. I do this because my ego is such it allows me to believe that thousands of other people who dedicate their working lives to finding the most accurate and reliable data they can and collaborating with other scientists and researchers to come up with the most probable conclusions are all just a little bit dim and haven't quite got the grasp of the subject that I have.
Mr
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
» Add a new message to this topic
