FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Under his eye

Under his eye

By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

I have discussed this before but watching the Handmaids Tale has made me think about if society really still views women as fertile beings.

I decided from a very early age that having children was not something I wanted. I've never had that 'broody' feeling or any desire to conceive. From my own experience, It seems as a woman, not wanting kids is an odd thing. I know my own mind and it's not going to change.

So do you see people differently if they don't want children? Or is just being a woman means being a mother is expected of you? Does religion play a part in these beliefs? Is it acceptable not to have children in our society?

Open discussion, any thoughts?

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By *emini ManMan over a year ago

There and to the left a bit

Personally I wouldn't think anything of it and certainly wouldn't think it odd.

I think it's probably more common than you think these days, certainly a number of women I know feel the same as you.

That said 30-40 years ago it probably would have raised more eyebrows but I do think we've moved on a lot since then.

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By *ancer36Woman over a year ago

Stirling

I have never wanted children that is something I have been certain of since my early 20s I think some woman deem it as I’ll be lonely in later life or I am missing out on joy, I have a wonderful life, filled with things and people I enjoy I don’t feel like I am missing out on anything.

It’s my body and frankly I don’t wish to be responsible for another human being for the rest of my days, I love being an auntie and adore my little nephews but that’s more than enough for me, if I had a pound for every time a woman told me ‘I’ve just not met the right person’ or ‘you will change your mind’ I’d be loaded, it’s a personal choice in my opinion xx

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By *agneto.Man over a year ago

Bham

I think it's tough for people who do have kids to understand the mentality of someone who doesn't. The love and bond you have for your kids is like nothing else in the world, so they can't fathom why someone would voluntarily want to miss out on that.

Times have changed, women aren't just baby factories like before, women are having kids later, having less of them or choosing to not have them at all.

I think it's more accepted these days than before and will become more acceptable over time, but some will still find it hard to comprehend.

Blessed is the fruit.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I have never wanted children that is something I have been certain of since my early 20s I think some woman deem it as I’ll be lonely in later life or I am missing out on joy, I have a wonderful life, filled with things and people I enjoy I don’t feel like I am missing out on anything.

This is my experience too. It's always been a questioned thing and I've been told more times than you can imagine 'When you get older, you will change your mind'

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By *tue555Man over a year ago

Passed Beyond Reach

I think a lot of pressure comes from peers around children and very traditionalist attitudes.

It is a choice and would would never treat anyone any differently for not wanting children and would respect their choices.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Heh. I'm one of the people who changed their mind. Just to throw spanner into works.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Nah, I wouldn't think any less or see anyone differently if they decided not to have kids. Parenting isn't for everyone and the world is already over-populated without adding to it. Also, the cost of having kids in the current climate isnty something everyone can even afford so I think you're smart if you don't have kids.

I was brought up in a culture that said you get an education, get a job, get married and have kids which I bought into for most of my life. But seeing my niece and nephew, even though I love them, I'm seriously reconsidering whether kids are worth it. They're lovely, but your whole life has to revolve around them

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By *ily WhiteWoman over a year ago

I used to get a lot more disapproval of the fact that I didn't want to have children 20 years ago than I do now...I don't know whether that's because I was "of childbearing age" then, because attitudes have shifted, or that it's just more common these days for women to make that choice (as far as I know I'm the only person I know from school that doesn't have children).

I say disapproval, but it was usually expressed to me with a sense of pity, like I was missing out on some wonderful, magical secret world - I'm sure parenthood *is* wonderful if that's what you want out of life, but not so wonderful if not.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I think it's tough for people who do have kids to understand the mentality of someone who doesn't. The love and bond you have for your kids is like nothing else in the world, so they can't fathom why someone would voluntarily want to miss out on that.

Times have changed, women aren't just baby factories like before, women are having kids later, having less of them or choosing to not have them at all.

I think it's more accepted these days than before and will become more acceptable over time, but some will still find it hard to comprehend.

Blessed is the fruit.

Yeah I think that's a big part of it. I totally understand the love people have for their children so I guess it's hard to understand why someone wouldn't want that too.

May the lord open

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Heh. I'm one of the people who changed their mind. Just to throw spanner into works.

Me too. I was adamant I didn’t want kids, and then I did

However, no one should be made to feel bad about their decision not to have kids. It’s their choice and theirs alone, and it’s nothing to do with anyone else.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

My best female friend told me when she was 17 that she didn't want children and never has, and never regretted it 30 years on. So certainly there are many women such as yourself who feel this way from early on, and no doubt it's frustrating and patronising when people say it will pass.

I hope that situation is improving but as in so many areas historical expectations of women and their place in society will not fade quickly.

Thanks for your honesty,OP. An important debate.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

" Is it acceptable not to have children in our society?

I have children and honestly I think not having them is the most rational, intelligent, sensible choice nowadays. I daily wonder if I did the most idiotic thing of my life, I love them to bits, but this world is a mess. All human beings deserve to live a safe, healthy, happy life, and this is just not possible as we are too many taking advantage of the planet and of others for our own needs. I respect people who choose not to have children, breeding and nurturing are primordial instincts, fortunately we live in civilized environment and some of us still use their brains more than their guts.

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By *ools and the brainCouple over a year ago

couple, us we him her.

It's your body your choice simple.

For me(Mr) I couldn't imagine dying and have nothing left of me on this planet carrying on my bloodline.

We have two kids and two grandchildren so that's guaranteed for a while yet.

The only time I could see an issue with children is if a couple one wanted them and the other didn't, I'm not sure if I could stay in a relationship like that.

Our children are everything to use I can't imagine a world without them.

But if a woman doesn't want children she shouldn't be forced.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"My best female friend told me when she was 17 that she didn't want children and never has, and never regretted it 30 years on. So certainly there are many women such as yourself who feel this way from early on, and no doubt it's frustrating and patronising when people say it will pass.

I hope that situation is improving but as in so many areas historical expectations of women and their place in society will not fade quickly.

Thanks for your honesty,OP. An important debate."

Absolutely, if your mind is made up it usually stays the case for the rest of our lives. It seems saying you want children is accepted but saying you don't is questioned. I hope we are getting better but I haven't experienced that level of acceptance yet.

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By *ools and the brainCouple over a year ago

couple, us we him her.

I do think that there's a difference between not wanting kids and hating them.

I worked for a guy many years ago who payed to have a vasectomy in his early 20's because he absolutely hated children and other humans.

Mind you he was a complete asshole and had zero compassion for anything other than himself, I digress sorry.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It’s more normal than people think the amount off people that didn’t want kids

But d*unken one night stand whare sens whet out the window or forgotten pill or faulty condom and end up pregnant is quite common

It’s everyone choice and there is no right or wrong choice

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By *odgerMooreMan over a year ago

Carlisle

It’s personal choice and I agree that years ago there was more pressure because even then. A ‘womans role’ was Still seen as a homemaker have babies, bake cakes. The last 40-50 years has seen huge changes in expectations on both sides. I wouldn’t change my opinion of someone based on their choice of whether or not to have a family. Xx

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Heh. I'm one of the people who changed their mind. Just to throw spanner into works.

Me too. I was adamant I didn’t want kids, and then I did

However, no one should be made to feel bad about their decision not to have kids. It’s their choice and theirs alone, and it’s nothing to do with anyone else. "

Yep

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I have many friends who do not have not do they want children. I totally (as a mother) understand this. As much as I love my kids if I had my time again I wouldn’t go down the path I have.

When someone says to me they are expecting my first question is how do they feel about it…it’s interesting how many are not over the moon but want to do the right thing.

It’s not selfish odd or anything else, it’s making the decisions you want for your life…when we have kids many decisions we make are for them more so than ourselves.

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By *issmorganWoman over a year ago

Calderdale innit

I'm the same op

Never wanted kids since being a teen and I was always asked why not or told i'd change my mind, except by friends and family.

I've got to 46 and never changed it.

I would never be so rude as to tell someone the same as I was told, people know their own minds and have their own reasons.

I think in all honesty it would be stranger if we all wanted to have children, I think it's becoming more acceptable to not have them now.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

" Is it acceptable not to have children in our society?

Totally agree, part of my reason is the world we live in. So many children are born into horrible situations out of their control.

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By *den-Valley-coupleCouple over a year ago

Cumbria

[Removed by poster at 21/07/21 10:33:31]

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By *parkle1974Woman over a year ago

Leeds

It's sad that it is still not accepted in this day and age.

I always said I didn't want children but by some miracle, I had my daughter. Sadly though she wasn't with me long but I made my mind up after that experience that I would never, ever be in that position again. I think because we are women it's "expected" that we automatically want kids.

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By *emorefridaCouple over a year ago

La la land

I think everyone can do with their body what they want. I thought a lot before having my kids if I really wanted then. Or was I doing it because that's what society taught me that's what I should want.

Personally I think it should be more normal to have conversations on why you want children, not just justifying why you don't. Plus I think it's ok to change your mind as you get older, without having people saying see I told you'd want children.

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By *atnip make me purrWoman over a year ago

Reading

I always had a very strong desire to have children and luckily for me i used to get pregnant at the drip of the hat.

But that's me. I would never ever judge a woman for making a different choice. In fact if you are not 100% in you shouldn't do it. Hardest job in the world bar none. Live and let live people.

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By *atnip make me purrWoman over a year ago

Reading

"It's sad that it is still not accepted in this day and age.

Sparkle, i am so so sorry for your loss.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"It's sad that it is still not accepted in this day and age.

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By *imi_RougeWoman over a year ago

Portsmouth

I've got one and I say I don't blame them for not wanting any

I mean, he's my biggest achievement, but I couldn't have coped with any more and he wasn't planned.

There's more to life than reproducing.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I think everyone can do with their body what they want. I thought a lot before having my kids if I really wanted then. Or was I doing it because that's what society taught me that's what I should want.

Totally agree, these conversations should be normal and everyone needs to do what's best for them.

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By *ougie321Man over a year ago

Milford Haven

"It's sad that it is still not accepted in this day and age.

I write with tears in my eyes as I lost a son and know to well the feeling x

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By *edeWoman over a year ago

the abyss

I have a son who is now older and wouldn't change him for the world! But I also knew from when he was quite young I didn't want anymore.

I am only 35 now which is viewed as plenty young enough to have several more and so people quite often don't understand when I say I 100% will jot be having anymore. I even looked into getting tubes tied but it was going to be a fight due to age and that should the unthinkable happen I may want to replace my son like a broken hoover

I would never judge someone on the choice they have made for their own life and I know many my age are just wanting to settle down and have kids (all my friends) which makes dating awkward. Many people think that I'll change my mind but don't like it when I flip that statement to them.

As long as you aren't hurting anyone else I say enjoy the life you have in what ever way you want and don't be a Judgy McJudge Pants

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I have discussed this before but watching the Handmaids Tale has made me think about if society really still views women as fertile beings.

Open discussion, any thoughts?"

Well it is different as it's not the majority view. However, different does not nessarily equal bad.

You have to remember that socially and evolutionary we are geared to have kids. Yes there will be a sliding scale and individuals will differ, but it should not be a surprise that society is geared this way.

If you go back the reason you would have many kids was to benefit the tribe. More kids better chance of some surviving and some being strong. Thus benefiting the tribe.

A lady not having kids would have been seen as a drag on the tribes resources.

In modern days with child survival high and life expectancy long this has given the tribe more scope to turn our skills to other things other than just survival and growth of the tribe.

But you can undo, 100000 years of societal building and millions of years of evolutionary conditioning in say 100-200 years of scientific advancement.

There will be a lag as our societies and evolutionary built in wiring catch up to the fact we have moved beyond simple survival.

But even in modern days growth is key and you can see how nations still have the pressure to grow to compete with each other and maintain welfare standards built on the back of continuous population growth.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I have a son who is now older and wouldn't change him for the world! But I also knew from when he was quite young I didn't want anymore.

As long as you aren't hurting anyone else I say enjoy the life you have in what ever way you want and don't be a Judgy McJudge Pants

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By *abasaurus RexMan over a year ago

Gloucestershire

"I have discussed this before but watching the Handmaids Tale has made me think about if society really still views women as fertile beings.

Open discussion, any thoughts?"

I honestly don’t care. If a woman wants to have kids fine, if she doesn’t fine.

Rather than being an issue that arises specifically because of gender, I think it’s just that it’s societally/culturally implied that most women want children (whether that’s true or not).

Human curiosity (for some people) then causes people to wonder why others have chosen to not go with the majority position.

But that’s obviously from my personal bias/paradigm. I’m sure there are some people out there who think women are baby making machines.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I'm childfree by choice, I've never wanted kids and my husband feels the same. He recently had a vasectomy so that we can feel secure knowing it won't happen accidentally.

I've never been a fan of children and I absolutely don't see them as a part of my life. I do sometimes feel that as a (relatively) young woman, there is an expectation that I'll reproduce, and that I'm somehow 'weird' for not wanting to.

But thankfully my family are all supportive of my choice and that's all that matters to me

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I'm childfree by choice, I've never wanted kids and my husband feels the same. He recently had a vasectomy so that we can feel secure knowing it won't happen accidentally.

But thankfully my family are all supportive of my choice and that's all that matters to me

We are the same, I've never wanted them but having a hubby that doesn't want them either certainly makes things easier.

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By *ools and the brainCouple over a year ago

couple, us we him her.

Isn't it great that we live in a country that allows us to not only discuss these sort of topics but allows people the choice to actually go ahead and make the choice themselves.

Time's have changed.

But some parts of the world sadly women don't get a choice who they marry,if they have children or not and get subjected to some very barbaric practices.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I have discussed this before but watching the Handmaids Tale has made me think about if society really still views women as fertile beings.

Open discussion, any thoughts?"

I mean I’m not a biological woman (sadly) but I can tell there’s so much fucking pressure from everyone and it’s expected that you will become a mother eventually and deliver children. Which I think is completely bonkers, it’s your body, your choice and that is that.

I’ve had many friends who had the same question. So when are you finally gonna have a baby? You have been with so and so for so long all you need is a child now.

And it can be very annoying if not more to hear that.

Whatever the reason, it’s your choice. And it should be respected regardless.

I never had any particular maternal instinct (never mind paternal) in me, I don’t particularly enjoy kids, but most importantly, I realise that they are a responsibility and if I decide to become a mum, they would come first. And I’m just not ready for that.

I don’t understand the parents who have kids and then they just ship them off to the grandparents, nannies and don’t particularly want to deal with them.

Like it’s okay not to have kids (actually better for the planet) and if you have kids, freaking hell … put them FIRST!

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Isn't it great that we live in a country that allows us to not only discuss these sort of topics but allows people the choice to actually go ahead and make the choice themselves.

Time's have changed.

But some parts of the world sadly women don't get a choice who they marry,if they have children or not and get subjected to some very barbaric practices.

Absolutely, I know it's only a TV show but it does represent some women's reality which is sad considering how far the world has come.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I have discussed this before but watching the Handmaids Tale has made me think about if society really still views women as fertile beings.

Open discussion, any thoughts?

I’ve had many friends who had the same question. So when are you finally gonna have a baby? You have been with so and so for so long all you need is a child now.

And it can be very annoying if not more to hear that.

Whatever the reason, it’s your choice. And it should be respected regardless.

I don’t understand the parents who have kids and then they just ship them off to the grandparents, nannies and don’t particularly want to deal with them.

Like it’s okay not to have kids (actually better for the planet) and if you have kids, freaking hell … put them FIRST! "

Totally agree, having a child means giving a lot of your life and dedication to them. That's something I don't want too or are prepared to do. Having children is a wonderful thing for some but I ain't cut out for it!

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By *parkle1974Woman over a year ago

Leeds

"It's sad that it is still not accepted in this day and age.

I write with tears in my eyes as I lost a son and know to well the feeling x"

I'm so sorry for your loss xx

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By *pursChick aka ShortieWoman over a year ago

On a mooch

Personally I think it’s impolite to question anyone why they don’t have children. It can be for a number of reasons and some quite painful emotionally, it is no one’s business but theirs

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I have discussed this before but watching the Handmaids Tale has made me think about if society really still views women as fertile beings.

Open discussion, any thoughts?

I’ve had many friends who had the same question. So when are you finally gonna have a baby? You have been with so and so for so long all you need is a child now.

And it can be very annoying if not more to hear that.

Whatever the reason, it’s your choice. And it should be respected regardless.

I don’t understand the parents who have kids and then they just ship them off to the grandparents, nannies and don’t particularly want to deal with them.

Like it’s okay not to have kids (actually better for the planet) and if you have kids, freaking hell … put them FIRST!

I think realising it and admitting it to ourselves is a sign of maturity and deep connection with ourselves.

a lot of people out there just never realised and ended up being awful neglectful parents..

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By *parkle1974Woman over a year ago

Leeds

"Personally I think it’s impolite to question anyone why they don’t have children. It can be for a number of reasons and some quite painful emotionally, it is no one’s business but theirs

Exactly this x

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"It's sad that it is still not accepted in this day and age.

I write with tears in my eyes as I lost a son and know to well the feeling x

I'm so sorry for your loss xx"

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Personally I think it’s impolite to question anyone why they don’t have children. It can be for a number of reasons and some quite painful emotionally, it is no one’s business but theirs

Really good point, for some people it's not a choice. That's why it's more important to not question why someone doesn't have them. Heartbreaking for those who can't

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By *pursChick aka ShortieWoman over a year ago

On a mooch

"Personally I think it’s impolite to question anyone why they don’t have children. It can be for a number of reasons and some quite painful emotionally, it is no one’s business but theirs

Really good point, for some people it's not a choice. That's why it's more important to not question why someone doesn't have them. Heartbreaking for those who can't

Or as seen on this thread, it’s not always can’t, it’s numerous miscarriages or some do give birth but sadly the child passes later

all of which can and does affect both genders.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Personally I think it’s impolite to question anyone why they don’t have children. It can be for a number of reasons and some quite painful emotionally, it is no one’s business but theirs

Really good point, for some people it's not a choice. That's why it's more important to not question why someone doesn't have them. Heartbreaking for those who can't

Or as seen on this thread, it’s not always can’t, it’s numerous miscarriages or some do give birth but sadly the child passes later

all of which can and does affect both genders. "

Absolutely

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

A career or a family.

It can be a tough choice to make

Should never look down on someone who chooses not too. It's her choice. She has the right to make it

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By *parkle1974Woman over a year ago

Leeds

"A career or a family.

It can be a tough choice to make

Should never look down on someone who chooses not too. It's her choice. She has the right to make it"

You do know it is possible to have both a career and a family x

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"A career or a family.

It can be a tough choice to make

Should never look down on someone who chooses not too. It's her choice. She has the right to make it"

It's about choice of to have children or not. Women are more than capable of having a career and a family.

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By *icecouple561Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

East Sussex

I was older when we had our children by choice and loads of people assumed it was because we'd had difficulty conceiving.

It's relatively recently that women have been able to control their fertility and it's going to take a long time for attitudes to catch up

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By *inAndTonic21Couple over a year ago

Merseyside

Loved handmaids tale and the gritty story. I think it is just personal choice, as a parent you never stop worrying about something for them and that’s the difficult part really! That’s a lot of years worry haha

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By *uliette500Woman over a year ago

Hull

Everyone should be entitled to live how they wish. Some want children some don't.

I only had one child for reasons that are my own but all I ever heard from others was when are you having another. Don't leave him as an only child.

Other people always have an opinion but should learn to keep it to themselves.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Everyone should be entitled to live how they wish. Some want children some don't.

I only had one child for reasons that are my own but all I ever heard from others was when are you having another. Don't leave him as an only child.

Other people always have an opinion but should learn to keep it to themselves. "

Totally agree!

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