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Phasing in electric cars
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Will the scenario be...
A fall in value of fossil fuel cars
Big rise in fuel costs and fewer fuel stations
Hikes in insurance
When will be the best time to switch to electric cars?
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Used fossil car prices will go up as demand increases and people try to cling onto them for as long as possible, me included.
Millions of people wont behave to afford to buy an electric car either so will have no choice but to stick with fossil |
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The right time to buy electric is when you have a genuine need for a new car.
More energy is wasted taking fossil fuel cars that are perfectly good off the road, or not repairing them because they’re sporting an ICE… because it takes vast amounts of energy to produce a brand new car. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Used fossil car prices will go up as demand increases and people try to cling onto them for as long as possible, me included.
Millions of people wont behave to afford to buy an electric car either so will have no choice but to stick with fossil"
I disagree,
FFC will be taxed very high, petrol, ULEZ etc
Everything is being done to phase them out and they will become practically unaffordable to run. But not to purchase. The value will drop, not because of electric cars being expensive but because they are unaffordable to run and pointless to keep.
At the same time electric cars are cheap to run and govt will possibly incentivise them. Electric cars are generally expensive but not really by that much. Im sure prices will come down. Atleast for the short term. Who knows what future taxes await us. At the moment there’s no congestion charge on electric cars but that will change once electric becomes majority and is the cause of congestion in cities. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Used fossil car prices will go up as demand increases and people try to cling onto them for as long as possible, me included.
Millions of people wont behave to afford to buy an electric car either so will have no choice but to stick with fossil"
i wouldnt mind but climate change emergency is a big lie anyway did nobody do geography at school ? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Er, in case you hadn't noticed, this has been happening for a while now, and as much as some might likevto believe that this is being forced upon us, the truth is that manufacturers are working hard to get more if them to market due to demand.
General motors, for example, ate only developing electric vehicles now.
The shift is being driven bybthe consumer |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Er, in case you hadn't noticed, this has been happening for a while now, and as much as some might likevto believe that this is being forced upon us, the truth is that manufacturers are working hard to get more if them to market due to demand.
General motors, for example, ate only developing electric vehicles now.
The shift is being driven bybthe consumer"
complete rubbish their is no demand for electric car thats why its been forced on us |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Normal car fire can take literally 5 minutes and about 250 gallons of water to extinguish, electric can easily be 4-5 hours and well over 10,000 gallons of water.
Even then the risk isnt over. So small crash on the motorway with with two cars that go up in flames can be cleared and back open in a couple of hours with minimal damage to the carriageway, same but with electric and you're pretty much looking at 6+ hours and damage to carriageway due to the excessive heat. So that too car crash could end up taking a hell of a lot longer to clear up by the time the surface is repaired.
And then if someone is really unlucky and driving a Tesla and the doors don't unlock then a death at the scene keeps the road closed for a lot longer. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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No government can absorb the loss of tax that is put on fossil fuels - some prices will increase to compensate, whether it's electricity prices, road fund license or something else. Also, I predict big problems with people leaving cables all over the place initially - trip hazards, electrocution problems etc. It will all take a long time. |
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"My guess. I think we need another leap in battery technology combined with all the morons ditching their wasteful 4x4s type vehicles."
Does that include all the morons that need 4x4s to do their job? Can't see a Nissan leaf pulling out of a flood or going off road to rescue you |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Experts warn electric cars are still along way off.
No, there's one down my street.
It's quite close."
And you need plenty of evening of their approach.
They’re too quiet so you don’t hear them coming.
They’re too fast so they just suddenly appear.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Used fossil car prices will go up as demand increases and people try to cling onto them for as long as possible, me included.
Millions of people wont behave to afford to buy an electric car either so will have no choice but to stick with fossil
i wouldnt mind but climate change emergency is a big lie anyway did nobody do geography at school ?"
Your problem is that no one believes you. It must be strange. In the past, people concerned about climate change were called cranks. Now it's the climate change deniers who are thought of as....eccentric. |
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"Would be good if they could whip out the engine and swap it for an electric.
Yep, battery technology is a long way off. "
Yes you can...there are companies offering conversions....mainly on classics...have a look on YouTube at classic electric cars |
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What I can't understand is how, after a year and a half of turmoil in society and disruption to the economy, I have never seen so many new giant expensive cars (electric or otherwise) appearing on the roads.
They can't surely be cheap, so where the hell is the money coming from to pay for them all? It doesn't seem to add up.
Are they actually being paid for or is there a massive credit bubble waiting to burst? |
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"Used fossil car prices will go up as demand increases and people try to cling onto them for as long as possible, me included.
Millions of people wont behave to afford to buy an electric car either so will have no choice but to stick with fossil
i wouldnt mind but climate change emergency is a big lie anyway did nobody do geography at school ?"
Yes its true we are being fed a big lie about global warming.......the earths temperature has changed numerous times without petrol and diesel vehicles. |
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"
...
i wouldnt mind but climate change emergency is a big lie anyway did nobody do geography at school ?
Your problem is that no one believes you. It must be strange. In the past, people concerned about climate change were called cranks. Now it's the climate change deniers who are thought of as....eccentric."
I remain to be convinced.
Every time I have flown diagonally across thousands of uninhabited miles of Atlantic Ocean (and that's not by any stretch the biggest) I have found it very hard to believe that the relatively small inhabited part of the globe can have any influence on climate change.
What happened to cause previous massive changes? Former prehistoric cars and aircraft that haven't survived as fossils?
Just one reason why I won't discount geographical causes is that I know for a fact that sunspot cycles have gone tits up since the last significant ones during the middle of the last century.
That's where my climate change money would be staked. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I'd be happy enough to go electric, but charging is an issue - I can't park near my house, and I drive for my job so need easy access to charging facilities. Easy enough in the cities, but I'm out in the sticks. |
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By *aitonelMan
over a year ago
Travelling |
"Used fossil car prices will go up as demand increases and people try to cling onto them for as long as possible, me included.
Millions of people wont behave to afford to buy an electric car either so will have no choice but to stick with fossil
i wouldnt mind but climate change emergency is a big lie anyway did nobody do geography at school ?
Yes its true we are being fed a big lie about global warming.......the earths temperature has changed numerous times without petrol and diesel vehicles. "
Not at the speed and rate it is happening though. That's the massive difference. You then combine that with every other parasitic thing that humans do to our host, and you have a rather serious thing happening on a global scale.
The digging for fuels fucks up the planet, the use of those fuels fucks up the planet. The planet speeds up its natural cycle to compensate for the changes we are causing instead of the changes happening at a much slower pace. The amount of ice that has melted in such a short time should have taken much longer.
It is so much more than "the earth's temperature has changed multiple times before" we can't prevent the earth getting hotter, nor can we change when it decides its going to cool down but we can make sure it takes longer to happen than it currently is.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Used fossil car prices will go up as demand increases and people try to cling onto them for as long as possible, me included.
Millions of people wont behave to afford to buy an electric car either so will have no choice but to stick with fossil
i wouldnt mind but climate change emergency is a big lie anyway did nobody do geography at school ?
Yes its true we are being fed a big lie about global warming.......the earths temperature has changed numerous times without petrol and diesel vehicles. "
exactly theirs even solid evidence of this but that doesnt seem to matter |
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"Will the scenario be...
A fall in value of fossil fuel cars
Big rise in fuel costs and fewer fuel stations
Hikes in insurance
When will be the best time to switch to electric cars?
"
I’m in one now. Don’t want to go back to petrol. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Will the scenario be...
A fall in value of fossil fuel cars
Big rise in fuel costs and fewer fuel stations
Hikes in insurance
When will be the best time to switch to electric cars?
I’m in one now. Don’t want to go back to petrol. "
Hey he’s back “ welcome back sausage “ |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Used fossil car prices will go up as demand increases and people try to cling onto them for as long as possible, me included.
Millions of people wont behave to afford to buy an electric car either so will have no choice but to stick with fossil
i wouldnt mind but climate change emergency is a big lie anyway did nobody do geography at school ?"
Go on, I'll bite. What exactly did a geography GCSE teach you that all those thousands of scientists and researchers with years of study at university, phd's, professorships etc have all missed?
Mr |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
i wouldnt mind but climate change emergency is a big lie anyway did nobody do geography at school ?
Yes its true we are being fed a big lie about global warming.......the earths temperature has changed numerous times without petrol and diesel vehicles.
exactly theirs even solid evidence of this but that doesnt seem to matter "
Indeed it has. And there's nothing at all wrong with it changing again, just so long as you're happy to accept what goes along with it. At times its believed the earth was almost entirely covered in ice but only life much more advanced than a sponge survived that period - tbf, that may not affect some climate change deniers.
The earth was much warmer when dinosaurs waltzed about - precisely because of the far higher levels of CO2 in the atmosphere, CO2 that allowed huge plants and trees to flourish, plants and trees that locked all that carbon away into fossil fuels that we are now releasing.
The thing that always amazes me with climate change deniers is they all come out with the same ideas as though somehow they know something no one else has realised. Its as though Joe Tin Hat Bloggs of 23 Littledick St has unearthed the answers to the biggest unknowns by watching a few YouTube videos while people who dedicate their entire professional lives to improving the accuracy of what we know about the past and what that may mean for the future all miss the obvious. If only they spent less time painstakingly counting isotopes from some ancient ice core and watched a bit more YouTube instead eh?
Mr |
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"oh dear
You are beginning to sound like Billy Liar's granny!
how ironic comming from a climate change denier  "
Nothing to do with climate change.
His granny only ever said "Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear"... |
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Lest anyone call me a climate change denier, I readily accept that climate is changing.
I merely question the cause of climate change which we are being fed..
Could it be that the sun is not so easy to tax or made to feel guilty about its involvement? |
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By *drianukMan
over a year ago
Spain, Lancs |
It's only when the history books are written that we get a proper sense of what has been going on.
I believe that 'climate change' will, when all the facts are known, be seen as a historical scam |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"The right time to buy electric is when you have a genuine need for a new car.
More energy is wasted taking fossil fuel cars that are perfectly good off the road, or not repairing them because they’re sporting an ICE… because it takes vast amounts of energy to produce a brand new car. "
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Where do you think the electricity for these cars comes from? The magical electric fairy? It cost more to the environment to create a battery. The exotic metals are ubsurd, in cost and when it takes to get them out of the earth. Also the vehical never surpasses its own cost to make it viable. Just like wind turbines. They cost more then they ever will make in energy on their operating life. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Where do you think the electricity for these cars comes from? The magical electric fairy? It cost more to the environment to create a battery. The exotic metals are ubsurd, in cost and when it takes to get them out of the earth. Also the vehical never surpasses its own cost to make it viable. Just like wind turbines. They cost more then they ever will make in energy on their operating life. "
Ive just remembered the Chinese demolished a mountain to get the minerals out for batteries, using loads of diesel no doubt |
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By *drianukMan
over a year ago
Spain, Lancs |
"EC incentives /grants arw already being removed  "
If you want to vote for a party that will increase 'grants' you are free to do so. Or you could vote for a party that will decrease 'grants'.
But I wouldn't advise voting for such 'grants'...they are only taxes being recycled. It's an illusion to think you are gaining anything |
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I went in to toyota showroom and asked about a car that would be able to tow my caravan at 1800 weight a sales assistant told me that they have nothing hybrid/ electric that will tow unless its diesel fuel.
On my way out sales assistant said keep what we have until it dies . |
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By *ourgeMan
over a year ago
stourport nr kidderminster |
These E10 fuel coming in . will see lot of older cars coming to road . And making alot off use .buy 2011 cars .all newer ones . All completely going eletric .another way to make change our ways . |
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"
i wouldnt mind but climate change emergency is a big lie anyway did nobody do geography at school ?"
Climate change, as a result of human activity, is of course a real thing and is potentially catastrophic for many millions of people as well as vast amounts of the species that we share the planet with. We're at a very dangerous point, from where it may become almost impossible to restrain temperature increases below 2 degrees Celsius. |
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I probably drive one of the most eco friendly cars on the forum.
It's a 30+ year old petrol Land Rover, yes I'll have to start using super unleaded once the E10 comes in but the old girl deserves at treat at her age. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Electric cars are expensive, as they are a relatively newer technology and there hasn't been enough uptake yet. The cost is driven by expensive research & development. Once the R&D is paid off the prices will start to come down.
Remember in 2002 - 2005 HDTVs were expensive? Now everyone has them they are incredibly affordable. Same principle. |
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If everyone switches to electric then more power will be drawn from the grid and in turn more girl field will need to be extracted to bolster the extra demand on the grid so you're not stopping the use of fossil fuels. You will only be increasing demand.
Plus acquiring the earth metals to make the engine such as Colbolt, is very destructive to the environment.
Check it out. It's not truly a green energy and some of the world's greatest deposits of it are in Africa and Asia. The firm's mining it are turning the locals into modern day forced labour to extract it and since its new there is not much regulation there as it's still niche.
The market was already moving there natural what the state is doing is forcing it and that will fuck things over.
And it's not fully energy efficient as with all rechargeable batteries. With ever charge you damage the battery cells and they are less able to hold their charge even when not turned on compared to their first activation.
Plus the govt would need to retrofit every filling station in the country first to have charging points and car parks to have charging points.
There is no point in forcing the end of fossil fuel cars unless you have a full system ready to take over and still would have happened in the market over time. It won't happen over night and there will be tearing.
Also they are looking at it from the commercial wide but what about industrial. Look at those massive Earth Movers. To power that you will need lots of batteries and the creation of the battery will be a massive damage to the environment not including the contaminated water used in its creation.
Imagine you are moving 14t steel in your wagons. You are low on charge but there are not enough charging stations or if you find one but it takes too long to charge so it takes longer for deliveries to be made..
That will have a knock on effect on the entire construction industry as many firms need new materials deliver one or many times a day just to continue the work. Projects would take longer to build.
All I'm seeing is yes electronic cars and no deeper thought into the impact they will have.
Let me hear your reasoned arguments.
Would also be interesting to hear from other trades especially wagon drivers what they think of it.
I'm.not opposed to batteries as I use them in my everyday work life but through using them every day I know through constant usage you burn them out too easily and they don't hold their charge after a while. |
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What about hydrogen? Or is this tech being 'suppressed' because there's money to be made out of electric vehicles? I know people worry about the explosive potential of hydrogen, but I recently lit my BBQ with unleaded and almost took out my shed! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Until the infrastructure supporting electric cars is massively improved they will never replace petrol/diesel.
I know more and more charging stations are being installed, but when you have minimum 30mins to fast charge that adds a lot of down time to people's days. How are delivery drivers going to cope, the likes of Yodel, DHL, Amazon drivers have minimum 150+ deliveries to make in a day, already you see their drivers still working 10.00pm at night. If they loose time having to charge vehicles they'll be delivering 24hrs a day!
Hybrids work, you don't need a charging station because the battery charges as you drive. Start rolling them out widescale first, and then build a better charging infrastructure. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Diesel coats won’t rise too much as we will still need HGV’s to move everything around and heavy plant to build things and increasing diesel prices will increase the prices of most things
As for when to buy an electric car; I would say in the next 5-10 years when technology has improved
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By *adyJayneWoman
over a year ago
Burnleyish (She/They) |
"What about hydrogen? Or is this tech being 'suppressed' because there's money to be made out of electric vehicles? I know people worry about the explosive potential of hydrogen, but I recently lit my BBQ with unleaded and almost took out my shed!"
Hyundai are the only people selling hydrogen cars in the UK afaik and the amount of places you can fill up is really limited. |
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"What about hydrogen? Or is this tech being 'suppressed' because there's money to be made out of electric vehicles? I know people worry about the explosive potential of hydrogen, but I recently lit my BBQ with unleaded and almost took out my shed!
Hyundai are the only people selling hydrogen cars in the UK afaik and the amount of places you can fill up is really limited. "
The thing with hydrogen is we don’t burn it (cos that’s not any better than petrol), we feed it through a fuel cell and it then makes electricity to power a motor. So we end up with electric cars anyway we just store the electric in a liquid.
It’s hard to make it’s hard to transport and it’s hard to store. That’s never going to change, where as battery technology Will and has improved. |
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"Until the infrastructure supporting electric cars is massively improved they will never replace petrol/diesel.
I know more and more charging stations are being installed, but when you have minimum 30mins to fast charge that adds a lot of down time to people's days. How are delivery drivers going to cope, the likes of Yodel, DHL, Amazon drivers have minimum 150+ deliveries to make in a day, already you see their drivers still working 10.00pm at night. If they loose time having to charge vehicles they'll be delivering 24hrs a day!
Hybrids work, you don't need a charging station because the battery charges as you drive. Start rolling them out widescale first, and then build a better charging infrastructure."
They will replace petrol and diesel regardless of the infrastructure. Almost every car manufacturer has already announced switching to electric only at a certain point so there won't be a choice. |
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"Will the scenario be...
A fall in value of fossil fuel cars
Big rise in fuel costs and fewer fuel stations
Hikes in insurance
When will be the best time to switch to electric cars?
"
Cars depreciate, fact! Electric cars will also suffer depreciation in a different way, but for some it will be very steep. Instead of "miles on the clock" it will be "life in the battery" as replacing the battery is in the thousands! Also, they will become a technology item, and we all know how technology prices, drop, technology gets better, and used tech has low residual value.
The number of fuel stations is already well in decline, and will continue. As the push to zero emissions continues, fuel tax and tax on new ICS cars will rise. They will be long gone by 2030. Expect smaller cars to go first. The emission requirements coming in, combined with the cost of equipping such cars to pass future emission targets means that they will have to increase in price, and that will make many no less expensive than a larger car.
The fuel taxes we now pay will change to become an EV charge tax, per kWh, as that revenue has to come from somewhere. But as the push continues, as manufacturers absorb more development costs and develop new electric cars from the ground up, the costs will switch in favour of electric over ICE.
You will be able to run an ICE car beyond 2030/35, but it won't be a cheap option. Expect fuel to be less available and significantly more expensive. |
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"
They will replace petrol and diesel regardless of the infrastructure. Almost every car manufacturer has already announced switching to electric only at a certain point so there won't be a choice."
The cynic in me thinks that now they can get away with it and with safety in numbers, why wouldn't they go for a simpler and cheaper manufacturing option? They will still make the same or even bigger profit.
Sod whether it is a less convenient or useful type of vehicle than previously available versions.
Years of fobbing off dimwit motorists with cars more concerned with image than usefulness has amply proved that they will have no problem pulling off the scam. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Ignoring trucks and heavy plant for a moment, I’d expect ICE cars and the supporting infrastructure to be about for a good while after the 2030s as that’s when manufacturers will have to stop producing.
Spare parts, fuel and servicing will still be available for a long time after that. At least 10 maybe 20 years?
In the meantime there will be a reduction in ICE models as makers move more new models into EV and focus all new development on that.
I don’t expect all the fuel stations to close overnight! There’ll be a contraction like any other declining market. It’ll be interesting to see how the fuel delivery (business) model adapts to that change.
I’m debating whether to jump in on the last gen of petrol and run that into the ground or wait a bit longer for EV to mature a bit more.
It’ll be a long while before the auto industry can scale up production of EVs to anywhere like the numbers that they make ICE cars today.
I think in general there will be a trend ver the next few decades to make travel in general a lot more expensive to discourage it.
Shame the EVs have no ‘vroom vroom’  |
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"Surely someone will sell a phut phut, pop pop, bang bang kit as fitted by the local arseholes to their hot hatchbacks?"
A genuine safety concern with EV's is their silence, so don't warn pedestrians of their approach. Because of this, there are plans to have EV's make a sound, which would be synthesised, so people can hear the car. Expect this to very customisable! It already exists for the interiors of many cars today. |
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As with most new things, it's usually best to not be one of the first but also not be one of the last. You'll probably know when it's a good time as lots of people around you are making the switch. There will also probably come a point where there's lots of deals and incentives to encourage people to do so. |
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I asked toyota what there hybrid rav4 were capable off towing as I have a touring caravan and they came back with information saying its not strong enough to to my caravan at 1800 weight but recommended a different car at 50k can't see many at that price being sold. |
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If you have off street parking and live and never go outside the distance of the car charge then go for it..
I think electric cars in current setup are just for publicity and won't save the planet. |
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"Surely someone will sell a phut phut, pop pop, bang bang kit as fitted by the local arseholes to their hot hatchbacks?
A genuine safety concern with EV's is their silence, so don't warn pedestrians of their approach. Because of this, there are plans to have EV's make a sound, which would be synthesised, so people can hear the car. Expect this to very customisable! It already exists for the interiors of many cars today."
It’s actually law now that every car must be audible below 20mph but the law allows you to temporarily disable the noise in case you’re off to work first thing in the morning and don’t want to wake the neighbours.
But you can’t permanently disable this. So every time I get in my car I have to actively disable the sound. When it’s on in my car, it sounds like a quiet aircraft engine haha |
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"what they said
i wouldnt mind but climate change emergency is a big lie anyway did nobody do geography at school ?
Yes its true we are being fed a big lie about global warming.......the earths temperature has changed numerous times without petrol and diesel vehicles.
exactly theirs even solid evidence of this but that doesnt seem to matter
Indeed it has. And there's nothing at all wrong with it changing again, just so long as you're happy to accept what goes along with it. At times its believed the earth was almost entirely covered in ice but only life much more advanced than a sponge survived that period - tbf, that may not affect some climate change deniers.
The earth was much warmer when dinosaurs waltzed about - precisely because of the far higher levels of CO2 in the atmosphere, CO2 that allowed huge plants and trees to flourish, plants and trees that locked all that carbon away into fossil fuels that we are now releasing.
The thing that always amazes me with climate change deniers is they all come out with the same ideas as though somehow they know something no one else has realised. Its as though Joe Tin Hat Bloggs of 23 Littledick St has unearthed the answers to the biggest unknowns by watching a few YouTube videos while people who dedicate their entire professional lives to improving the accuracy of what we know about the past and what that may mean for the future all miss the obvious. If only they spent less time painstakingly counting isotopes from some ancient ice core and watched a bit more YouTube instead eh?
Mr"
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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electric cars arent the future, there just isnt the inferstructure for them, im not sure what the answer is to fossil fuels, but electic isnt it, and lets not forget how electric cars a charged, mainly by fossil fuels!
untill a car is made that cn drive a thousand miles with a 5 min top up, then it wont ctch on, maybe hydrogen is the answer, but has alot more problems than petrol, deasel was ment to be the answer years ago, but it never happened apart from hgv etc, to many disdvantages, petrol isnt going anywhere despite what our leaders want |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"What I can't understand is how, after a year and a half of turmoil in society and disruption to the economy, I have never seen so many new giant expensive cars (electric or otherwise) appearing on the roads.
They can't surely be cheap, so where the hell is the money coming from to pay for them all? It doesn't seem to add up.
Are they actually being paid for or is there a massive credit bubble waiting to burst?"
Hi Frank.
I think it's a case if people who have been working still have money to burn and will act as though nothing has changed. Or even the case where it is so easy to buy a car these days, people will buy them on credit. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"What about hydrogen? Or is this tech being 'suppressed' because there's money to be made out of electric vehicles? I know people worry about the explosive potential of hydrogen, but I recently lit my BBQ with unleaded and almost took out my shed!"
Wtf.. Have you got a death wish?. What a completely stupid thing to do. Use fire lighters like most sensible people... Dah!!! |
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"electric cars arent the future, there just isnt the inferstructure for them, im not sure what the answer is to fossil fuels, but electic isnt it, and lets not forget how electric cars a charged, mainly by fossil fuels!
untill a car is made that cn drive a thousand miles with a 5 min top up, then it wont ctch on, maybe hydrogen is the answer, but has alot more problems than petrol, deasel was ment to be the answer years ago, but it never happened apart from hgv etc, to many disdvantages, petrol isnt going anywhere despite what our leaders want"
When the average car journey in the UK is around 12 miles, it would seem that for many range is much less of an issue than you would think.
The big push on diesel cars a few years ago was that they were deemed to be cleaner, but it has since been decided that different pollutions in diesel fumes are "more" dangerous than car exhaust. In 2011 Diesel cars accounted for 55% of all new vehicles, and was still 45% in 2017, but now its only around 11%.
It's also worth bearing in mind that hydrogen cars are also electric, they just use a hydrogen fuelled generator to charge the batteries. AND Hydrogen is one of the most flammable/explosive gasses known to man so might not be the saviour of the car industry... but there will be more new technologies along soon enough.
Cal
Amusingly, in 1900 the first diesel engine was running on 100% PEANUT oil. |
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"What I can't understand is how, after a year and a half of turmoil in society and disruption to the economy, I have never seen so many new giant expensive cars (electric or otherwise) appearing on the roads.
They can't surely be cheap, so where the hell is the money coming from to pay for them all? It doesn't seem to add up.
Are they actually being paid for or is there a massive credit bubble waiting to burst?
Hi Frank.
I think it's a case if people who have been working still have money to burn and will act as though nothing has changed. Or even the case where it is so easy to buy a car these days, people will buy them on credit. "
I bought a car in Summer 2020 during the height of lockdown and the car sales person said that it had been his busiest time he remembers.
A lot of people didn’t take a holiday last year (and potentially had the money refunded) and used the money instead towards a car deposit. In some cases people claimed grants through the government schemes when their business wasn’t affected too badly.
People lucky enough to still in work might therefore have had a little more disposable income than usual. This was what a couple of guys working at the garage seemed to think anyway. |
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"Batteries will get better range will increase electric car prices will come down then people will choose electric because it’ll be better than petrol"
When prices, charging times and ranges have changed massively, a lot more people will show interest.
The tipping point comes when an electric car is cheaper to buy, just as quick to refuel, and travels further on a single charge, and the charging network is at least as extensive as petrol stations. Then it becomes a more obvious choice to switch.
We are nowhere near that stage. |
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"The best time to change to electric cars will be when there is a proper infrastructure in place, which I can't see happening ant time soon"
Agreed. Right now, they make a decent option for a short commute, where you can charge at home. Anyone I know who has an electric car has it as a second car, just for commuting. I don’t know anyone who drives a decent distance who owns one as their main car |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The best time to change to electric cars will be when there is a proper infrastructure in place, which I can't see happening ant time soon
Agreed. Right now, they make a decent option for a short commute, where you can charge at home. Anyone I know who has an electric car has it as a second car, just for commuting. I don’t know anyone who drives a decent distance who owns one as their main car "
I know several. Even in cold weather a Tesla will give over 200 miles to a charge, not many need more than that. One couple I know had a touring holiday from South Wales up and around Scotland. They said the drve up/back was no different to normal, a couple of loo breaks with the car on fast charge and they were fine. Charging is free in Scotland at the moment and even up around the Highlands had no issue keeping the vehicle charged. I honestly believe those who say the infrastructure/range isn't there are a bit out of date. Will both improve over time? Sure they will. Are they at a level that makes electric impractical for the majority? No, not at all.
Mr
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I have an electric car now and wouldn’t go back. I’m lucky to have off road parking and a home charge point, that will be a critical thing, enough infrastructure for everyone to be able to charge |
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"The best time to change to electric cars will be when there is a proper infrastructure in place, which I can't see happening ant time soon
Agreed. Right now, they make a decent option for a short commute, where you can charge at home. Anyone I know who has an electric car has it as a second car, just for commuting. I don’t know anyone who drives a decent distance who owns one as their main car "
I have a Tesla model 3 (long range) as my main & only car. No qualms at all when i drive longer distances. Their own supercharger network helps a great deal & makes charging quick & easy. Granted the same can't be said for other electric vehicles makes of course. |
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Mm....they rely on public buying em, fill you full of shite in order to regain finance to further develop them. In my opinion, people in the cities will benefit more than us up north. They arnt anywhere near what we need. Certain cars will always remain valuable. Eventually they will be a cartridge cell you can carry or wheel out to take inside and take all your room up in the hallway. It's the battery that's the problem at the mo. You won't see esso garages with acres of cars plugged in. That's not the way forward, or streets filled with pavements cluttered in cables as they have no offered parking. So in the meantime, they want you to buy overexpensive plastic cordless shit buckets until they figure it out. |
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"How do you charge one if you live in a block of flats?
Government told you to get diesel cars and look what happened to them  "
The whole diesel fiasco was a problem that didn’t need to happen and the issues with diesel were very widely known. Despite the knowledge of the inappropriate use of diesel, the government pushed through plans to encourage its more widespread adoption. (Diesel is kinder to the upper atmosphere with regards to greenhouse gas, but les so to the air you breath at street level.)
Governments use taxation to encourage people to shift spending in to more favourable areas. Cars and motoring is a tax rich environment. Consumers and industry are constantly playing the system to try and save money. Cheat devices were fitted to cars to get a lower Co2 figure and a more tax efficient score. Right now, taxation is being used to shift to electric cars. Why do you see so many new, expensive electric cars? Because the company car tax is massively lower! It’s fleet purchasing that drives and shapes the car market in the UK, not consumers.
Charging in a block of flats is an issue… today. As it is if you don’t have a driveway at home. But that will change, and charge points will become commonplace quite quickly, and most likely become a requirement in planning regulations. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Whatever.....we will all be driving hydrogen in 10 years time anyway and my electric car os probably faster than your ICE car and costs me sod all as i charge at work...
Unless you have a very special ICE car (classic TVR, ferarri etc etc) normal cars will be worhless i suspect |
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"By 2030, all car manufacturers will stop producing petrol and diesel cars. They are already switching to electric cars gradually .
"
Certain countries and regions have end of sale dates for new ice vehicles. The date is later for hybrid vehicles. For larger parts of the world, especially in regions less wealthy, ice cars will remain. But the impact of a reduction in markets for ice vehicles means development of ice technology will wind down significantly. |
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"Whatever.....we will all be driving hydrogen in 10 years time anyway and my electric car os probably faster than your ICE car and costs me sod all as i charge at work...
Unless you have a very special ICE car (classic TVR, ferarri etc etc) normal cars will be worhless i suspect"
Weren't we all going to be flying around with jet back packs within a few years, fifty years ago?
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is there really much difference between say these modern small cars i.e fiesta polo , clio and the like to electric cars in enviromental terms electricty has to come from somewhere so co2 willbe produced |
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"in enviromental terms electricty has to come from somewhere so co2 willbe produced"
The point a lot of people miss is that electricity can be produced in environmentally sustainable ways, without producing Co2. It’s an are where huge investment is being made as with or without electric cars, we need lots. |
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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago
Terra Firma |
A few significant developments are being overlooked in the replies that I have read and they are autonomous vehicles and vehicle ownership.
All electric vehicles of the not to distant future will be fully automated level 5, meaning no human input is required to make a journey. Currently Tesla are level 2, however cars do exist and have covered millions of real life test miles to date.
The way we own vehicles today will change going forward and this part makes the greatest sense! You own a car, you pay a huge amount for it to sit on a drive, in the road on a car park for the vast majority of its life. Think about the length f time your car is moving a week, 2 hours to work and back, 1 hour shopping, a trip out 4 hours. That is 14 hours use in 168 hours in the week. The use as you need it or hail a car is likely to take over, meaning an automated level 5 car will pick you up from wherever you are and take you to wherever you want to go, you pay for the journey.
The car will go and recharge after it drops you off if it is needed, or a different car will be hailed to take you back. The amount of cars being produced will be far less, travel will be quicker when it is fully automated, road rage will be a saying from the old days, charging will not be a problem to individuals and the world can start to breathe a little easier |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I won't be changing to electric, I'll just buy the best secondhand diesel I can. They won't phase out diesel as it will be years before lorries could get near to being electric
It's a con, they are now developing hydrogen as well |
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"I won't be changing to electric, I'll just buy the best secondhand diesel I can. They won't phase out diesel as it will be years before lorries could get near to being electric
It's a con, they are now developing hydrogen as well"
Hydrogen has been developed for quite a while now 2014 was the first production car ,its the cost of producing the hydrogen that is the defining factor. Once this comes down I can only see hydrogen being the future without the limitations of electric vehicles. |
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I think that it's inevitable. It's been decreed by various governments etc and any opposition by other parties will be almost unheard of because no political party is going to say "screw the environment " whether it is true or not. I'm waiting for delivery of an electric car because my old car finally packed up completely and was totally uneconomic to repair. I couldn't get a loan to get a used car and restart the process of tipping money into a bottomless pit while paying back the loan so I had to go down the route of a salary sacrifice with the company I work for. The main rule, and only choice was an electric car. All ICE cars were removed from any option. However, it does seem on paper to be the cheapest option this way versus the loan, if I could get one. Either way, electric cars are nothing new if you bear in mind that some of the first horseless carriage taxis in London were electric, nicknamed ' hummingbirds '. Most New York doctors ran round in Detroit Electric motor cars. I think there's good and bad to this sort of thing, I wonder how many coach house owners lamented the passing of horse drawn carriage? I think this was always going to happen, it had been thought of a long time ago as people at the time thought fossil fuels may run out and so forth. One of the positive things I will take is that you won't have the cowboy 'tradesmen ' sitting outside your home with the clattery diesel engine idling endlessly while the occupants read dashboard yellowed newspapers in said shagged out, rusty, dented transit/sprinter,...eventually. |
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"Used fossil car prices will go up as demand increases and people try to cling onto them for as long as possible, me included.
Millions of people wont behave to afford to buy an electric car either so will have no choice but to stick with fossil"
If we go with new EU car laws, old cars will be phased out all together. The EU is looking for all new cars to have speed restrictors fitted, so there won't be any more old cars to get hold of. Everyone with one, will keep it going for as long as they can. |
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"Myth! All EVs in the UK must be fitred with low speed pedestrian warning sounds. Abive about 15mph they make as much wind and tyre noise as any car, and that is usually what you hear first."
I’d already addressed this lol
" It’s actually law now that every car must be audible below 20mph but the law allows you to temporarily disable the noise in case you’re off to work first thing in the morning and don’t want to wake the neighbours.
But you can’t permanently disable this. So every time I get in my car I have to actively disable the sound. When it’s on in my car, it sounds like a quiet aircraft engine haha"
I’ve just gave my EV back cause I’ve had issues in work. But can’t wait and won’t hesitate to get back into one when things pick up again. |
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"Myth! All EVs in the UK must be fitred with low speed pedestrian warning sounds. Abive about 15mph they make as much wind and tyre noise as any car, and that is usually what you hear first."
I know that traffic noise exists, regardless of propulsion. I just like the idea that I, eventually won't have to listen to extended racket from fucked from new Transit diesel engines idling when parked up because the tykes inside can't be arsed to put a jumper on. I work on the roads, including monitoring pollution and noise levels. I stop frequently and turn the engine off, and I'm rather partial to the reprieve from the noise. I also love the idea of no bloody gears! Why vans are manual I'll never know. I'm more likely to suffer consumption from the dust from clutches! |
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"Myth! All EVs in the UK must be fitred with low speed pedestrian warning sounds. Abive about 15mph they make as much wind and tyre noise as any car, and that is usually what you hear first."
PWS - Mainly in reverse at the moment. Mine makes a UFO sound in reverse but, nothing distinguishable going forwards. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The best time to change to electric cars will be when there is a proper infrastructure in place, which I can't see happening ant time soon
Agreed. Right now, they make a decent option for a short commute, where you can charge at home. Anyone I know who has an electric car has it as a second car, just for commuting. I don’t know anyone who drives a decent distance who owns one as their main car "
Most people don't have a private driveway, so charging a car at home is not an option. |
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"Myth! All EVs in the UK must be fitred with low speed pedestrian warning sounds. Abive about 15mph they make as much wind and tyre noise as any car, and that is usually what you hear first."
Not arguing about the tech but I'll argue that I've nearly been hit by them 3 times as I didn't hear them. The surface noise a car makes is surely dependent on the surface its being driven on? |
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"Well you can spot them now new ones have a green edge to the number plate"
Is that because they are so "green" for the environment ? Isn't that lovely.
Thing is if I could see the green on the number plate I wouldn't have stepped off the kerb in front of them. |
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One of the biggest issues with the move to electric is that the most polluting cars on the road are owned by people who can't afford new cars or over-priced second hand ones. Giving out scrappage allowances of 2k bonus discounts on new electric cars just won't help the less affluent folk.
There are also plans afoot to make driving fossil fuel cars more expensive will just make it harder for the poor folk to survive. Not only increasing the cost of fuel and "road tax" but there is also talk of road tolls for "polluting" vehicles.
The lack of electric vans and lorries is also a major issue, accounting for 20% of all miles driven and generally producing higher levels of pollutants due to heavier weights and larger engines.
Cal |
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"One of the biggest issues with the move to electric is that the most polluting cars on the road are owned by people who can't afford new cars or over-priced second hand ones. Giving out scrappage allowances of 2k bonus discounts on new electric cars just won't help the less affluent folk.
There are also plans afoot to make driving fossil fuel cars more expensive will just make it harder for the poor folk to survive. Not only increasing the cost of fuel and "road tax" but there is also talk of road tolls for "polluting" vehicles.
The lack of electric vans and lorries is also a major issue, accounting for 20% of all miles driven and generally producing higher levels of pollutants due to heavier weights and larger engines.
Cal"
Wouldn't it be a good place to start if all local authorities, govt employees and departments, civil servants, bus, coach and train companies led the way?all their vechicles to be made electric. Company car tax allowances only on eV. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Total overall cost as well as upfront ticket prices will fall below ICE cars. Mark is below £100/KWh. Tesla is already there. Provided they don’t fuck up their ‘Model 2’ they will seal ICE cars’ fate.
I estimate this will take place faster even than the Govt targets and will partly be down to resale value of secondhand ICE cars crashing as a result. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The tech is just around the corner. Tesla have developed a new battery that has all the range needed, the faster charging time needed the top speed and the longevity needed. Google it, it’s called the 4680 and it’s 1 year from full scale production. |
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"Will the scenario be...
A fall in value of fossil fuel cars
Big rise in fuel costs and fewer fuel stations
Hikes in insurance
When will be the best time to switch to electric cars?
"
Why does it have to be a bunch of negatives. EVs are here already and there will be even more of shift after the current chip shortage goes away.
Fossils are holding their value this year after consistently crashing (esp diesels) over the past 2 years. I have driven a few EVs, tech and convenience exist to fit 50% of population already. So, there are no blockers including costs (if you consider TCO) |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"The tech is just around the corner. Tesla have developed a new battery that has all the range needed, the faster charging time needed the top speed and the longevity needed. Google it, it’s called the 4680 and it’s 1 year from full scale production."
Any info on the environmental impact of mining and manufacturing of the batteries?
How environmentally friendly the electric cars are would depend on how the electricity is generated too, solar panels v coal fired etc... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The tech is just around the corner. Tesla have developed a new battery that has all the range needed, the faster charging time needed the top speed and the longevity needed. Google it, it’s called the 4680 and it’s 1 year from full scale production.
Any info on the environmental impact of mining and manufacturing of the batteries?
How environmentally friendly the electric cars are would depend on how the electricity is generated too, solar panels v coal fired etc... "
Yep. 4680 is chemistry agnostic and Tesla are developing lithium mining which will be more environmentally friendly than the current methods, using table salt.
They are using less cobalt than ever. They are shooting for zero cobalt which is used in the refining process of petrol too. Can’t speak for electricity generation but Tesla aren’t responsible wholly for that but recent solar panel development are promising and may lead to an abundance of electricity. It’s promising  |
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"One of the biggest issues with the move to electric is that the most polluting cars on the road are owned by people who can't afford new cars or over-priced second hand ones. Giving out scrappage allowances of 2k bonus discounts on new electric cars just won't help the less affluent folk.
There are also plans afoot to make driving fossil fuel cars more expensive will just make it harder for the poor folk to survive. Not only increasing the cost of fuel and "road tax" but there is also talk of road tolls for "polluting" vehicles.
The lack of electric vans and lorries is also a major issue, accounting for 20% of all miles driven and generally producing higher levels of pollutants due to heavier weights and larger engines.
Cal
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Wouldn't it be a good place to start if all local authorities, govt employees and departments, civil servants, bus, coach and train companies led the way?all their vechicles to be made electric. Company car tax allowances only on eV. "
Definitely.
Also, in response to the "how green is electricity" question. Around 60% of the UK's electricity is now produced by renewable, but even when generating power with 100% coal there is a 30% reduction in CO2 compared to petrol. PLUS there is the actual local air quality improvements.
Cal |
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