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Can You Explain the Class System in UK
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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I am curious about comments I read elsewhere online yesterday about choosing a name for a soon-to-be-born baby girl. The wife liked "Ophelia" but the husband said it was "too middle class".
Is it not okay to be considered middle class in the UK? Isn't that what most people would strive for? Not rich, not struggling, just able to go to work, earn a living and support one's family?
Where I am from (Canada) most people are "middle class" and it's seen as an okay thing: average salaries, a car, regular middle of the road life. I am guessing that that is not what it means here? Can anyone clarify for me please? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I am curious about comments I read elsewhere online yesterday about choosing a name for a soon-to-be-born baby girl. The wife liked "Ophelia" but the husband said it was "too middle class".
Is it not okay to be considered middle class in the UK? Isn't that what most people would strive for? Not rich, not struggling, just able to go to work, earn a living and support one's family?
Where I am from (Canada) most people are "middle class" and it's seen as an okay thing: average salaries, a car, regular middle of the road life. I am guessing that that is not what it means here? Can anyone clarify for me please? "
Yup it means the same thing, and your outlook is the right one. For some reason some people like to turn their nose up at other classes of people, immature, insecure, jealous, think they are better... what ever it is, all bad traits in my opinion |
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The class system is one of things i detest most about the UK. It is weakening somewhat but yes things are seen as from a particular class and shouldn't be enjoyed if you are not from that class. Of course its nonsense. |
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By *ucktopMan
over a year ago
London/abroad |
As a foreigner myself I find discussions on middle class particularly confusing as it’s never defined. Sometimes the term means anyone who does a white collar job (say a teacher) sometimes it means upper middle class with pretension like in your example.
Personally I think the whole fixation on class in the UK is overblown. My own native country has similar stratification, it happens in many other places too, it’s a fact of life - not very pleasant - but we work with what we’re given and there’s an understanding that everyone wants to improve on their background, education etc. Here sometimes it seems people prefer to nurture grievances towards those above and below rather than do anything which might cause them to go through any change. |
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"Which ever class you are thought to be from you are a wanker to all the other classes.
ohn Cleese, Ronnies Barker and Corbett said it all in their 1966 sketch about class."
Oh i had forgotten about that yes it's brilliant. |
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By *orny PTMan
over a year ago
Peterborough |
Shaving locations are a great identifier:
In the barber's chair: upper class
In the bathroom/toilet sink: middle class
In the kitchen sink: working class
In the kitchen sink: whilst the dirty dishes are still there: no class whatsoever |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"...Here sometimes it seems people prefer to nurture grievances towards those above and below rather than do anything which might cause them to go through any change. "
This helps to explain a lot of the politics here as well I think. It also explains how 'friendships' form (or don't) here.  |
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It's extremely complicated. A lot of people assume it's based on money but it isn't always. In the aristocracy and upper classes it's about family (breeding for want of a better word), connections and land ownership. It isn't possible to become upper class you're born into it and a lot of these people are stony broke selling the family portraits to keep going.
Once you get down to middle class, in which there are two sub sections upper and lower middle class, it starts to become about money. It is possible to move between upper and lower middle class by carefully observing spending habits, possessions, attitudes and increasing or decreasing your income.
Then you have working class which most of us belong to although the lines get a bit blurred where teachers, doctors, lawyers etc are concerned.
Most born and bred British people are aware of class and stick mostly within theirs but will claim not to differentiate.
A lot of dislike is aimed upwards...
All of the above is based on my observations rather than any proper research and my tongue was firmly in my cheek  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"use to think i was working class then i went to glasgow and realised i was upper class"
I just spent £14 on some chocolate buttons essentially. What does that make me except fucking stupid |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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If its have and have nots then I'm definitely in the have nots!
Have not got a care in the world about where you're from if you're a good egg you're a good egg!
Ps on a more serious note it is hugely complicated and probably quite interesting subject, which I haven't educated myself enough about so I hope you smiled at my quip   |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"use to think i was working class then i went to glasgow and realised i was upper class
I just spent £14 on some chocolate buttons essentially. What does that make me except fucking stupid "
That makes you robbed!!! I believe you can file for damages with that |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"It's extremely complicated. A lot of people assume it's based on money but it isn't always. In the aristocracy and upper classes it's about family (breeding for want of a better word), connections and land ownership. It isn't possible to become upper class you're born into it and a lot of these people are stony broke selling the family portraits to keep going.
Once you get down to middle class, in which there are two sub sections upper and lower middle class, it starts to become about money. It is possible to move between upper and lower middle class by carefully observing spending habits, possessions, attitudes and increasing or decreasing your income.
Then you have working class which most of us belong to although the lines get a bit blurred where teachers, doctors, lawyers etc are concerned.
Most born and bred British people are aware of class and stick mostly within theirs but will claim not to differentiate.
A lot of dislike is aimed upwards...
All of the above is based on my observations rather than any proper research and my tongue was firmly in my cheek "
It is really quite fascinating (and disturbing to a large extent). I agree it's not about money here - or even having actual 'class' from my observations 
After 12 years here I am still appalled that some newspapers will print the value of someone's house in an article on a non real estate related article: "Jane and Tom live in a £450,00 house in ..." Huh!?  |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"use to think i was working class then i went to glasgow and realised i was upper class
I just spent £14 on some chocolate buttons essentially. What does that make me except fucking stupid "
That would definitely put you in upper middle class to filthy wealthy in my books LOL |
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By *adyJayneWoman
over a year ago
Burnleyish (She/They) |
"It's extremely complicated. A lot of people assume it's based on money but it isn't always. In the aristocracy and upper classes it's about family (breeding for want of a better word), connections and land ownership. It isn't possible to become upper class you're born into it and a lot of these people are stony broke selling the family portraits to keep going.
Once you get down to middle class, in which there are two sub sections upper and lower middle class, it starts to become about money. It is possible to move between upper and lower middle class by carefully observing spending habits, possessions, attitudes and increasing or decreasing your income.
Then you have working class which most of us belong to although the lines get a bit blurred where teachers, doctors, lawyers etc are concerned.
Most born and bred British people are aware of class and stick mostly within theirs but will claim not to differentiate.
A lot of dislike is aimed upwards...
All of the above is based on my observations rather than any proper research and my tongue was firmly in my cheek
It is really quite fascinating (and disturbing to a large extent). I agree it's not about money here - or even having actual 'class' from my observations
After 12 years here I am still appalled that some newspapers will print the value of someone's house in an article on a non real estate related article: "Jane and Tom live in a £450,00 house in ..." Huh!? "
Class in and of itself didn't actually have anything to do with actual wealth or cashflow. It was about your upbringing which, historically determined your career path and level of education.
The working classes were anything (skilled or unskilled) classed as blue collar...
Trades, manual labour, shop work. Anything you'd get a bit grubby at so wouldn't wear a white coat
The middle classes were highly skilled/educated (finance, medical, scientific, academic, middle-upper management) anything white collar.
Upper classes were those with breeding, historical land owners etc... Which is why having lots ofoney doesn't make you upper class (and coined the saying 'money can't buy class')
Post post modernism and the distruction of the class system, social mobility, the availability of higher education for more people and the emergence of the service industries (call centre being an example) in the UK all blurred the class lines.
People now seem to think that anyone working is working class and the middle classes don't work, which is far from the truth. Its led to reverse snobbery etc...
God sorry, I strayed into my thesis territory... I'll shut up now. |
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If you say serviette or toilet or you hold your knife like a pen you are a common chav. If you say napkin or lavatory or hold your knife wit the end of the handle in your palm you are a pretentious git. The real give away is whether you put the milk in first when you make a cup of tea...
If you say glarsses or barth you are a posh twat, if not you are an oik. We can't win. The moment we open our mouths someone judges us... |
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"It's extremely complicated. A lot of people assume it's based on money but it isn't always. In the aristocracy and upper classes it's about family (breeding for want of a better word), connections and land ownership. It isn't possible to become upper class you're born into it and a lot of these people are stony broke selling the family portraits to keep going.
Once you get down to middle class, in which there are two sub sections upper and lower middle class, it starts to become about money. It is possible to move between upper and lower middle class by carefully observing spending habits, possessions, attitudes and increasing or decreasing your income.
Then you have working class which most of us belong to although the lines get a bit blurred where teachers, doctors, lawyers etc are concerned.
Most born and bred British people are aware of class and stick mostly within theirs but will claim not to differentiate.
A lot of dislike is aimed upwards...
All of the above is based on my observations rather than any proper research and my tongue was firmly in my cheek "
Ahh, the thread and response I’ve been waiting for |
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The class system in Britain is outdated and outmoded.
It never was based on money. It has always been based on birthright and inheritence....
Those with titles are Royalty and the Upper Classes...
Manual workers who used to do manual jobs were working class.....
A landed gent who became poor and became a travelling poet would still be upper class as he has what is known as 'breeding' ....
Someone born into the working class can never become upper class, no matter how much money they amass , no matter how much learning they do. They have no 'breeding' or are lowly bred.
The most despised and snobbish class are the middle classes as they aspire to be upper class and they grovel...... the grovelling bourgeoise.
Many working class people became wealthier during times of economic / industrial change but they remain working class. The middle classes wouldn't entertain them. They need someone to look down on.
Like I said at the outset...... it's an outmoded system. The world has changed. Royals marry commoners. Stately homes become theme parks. Princes rub shoulders with pop stars..... the boundaries are blurred but one thing that doesn't change is the upper class are born and they remain upper class.
Let's not forget the underclasses. The ones that make incomes better for those that do work. |
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There's not much more makes me grin at people than when they purchase lots of 'stuff' and think it makes them middle class...... and the upper middles think they can be lower upper cos they bought a concrete lion for the gatepost .....
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"The class system in Britain is outdated and outmoded.
It never was based on money. It has always been based on birthright and inheritence....
Those with titles are Royalty and the Upper Classes...
Manual workers who used to do manual jobs were working class.....
A landed gent who became poor and became a travelling poet would still be upper class as he has what is known as 'breeding' ....
Someone born into the working class can never become upper class, no matter how much money they amass , no matter how much learning they do. They have no 'breeding' or are lowly bred.
The most despised and snobbish class are the middle classes as they aspire to be upper class and they grovel...... the grovelling bourgeoise.
Many working class people became wealthier during times of economic / industrial change but they remain working class. The middle classes wouldn't entertain them. They need someone to look down on.
Like I said at the outset...... it's an outmoded system. The world has changed. Royals marry commoners. Stately homes become theme parks. Princes rub shoulders with pop stars..... the boundaries are blurred but one thing that doesn't change is the upper class are born and they remain upper class.
Let's not forget the underclasses. The ones that make incomes better for those that do work. "
Your class is not what you are or even what your parents are... if your grandfather, your father and you all went to Eton, you are just about knocking on the door. A 'good' marriage helps, too. Earning a peerage helps but if the new lord went to a grammar school or, god forbid, a comp, his heir may well remain suspect. It's complicated. Mind you, they still have toffs in China after 70 years of communism. We are not alone in this nonsense. |
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"I am curious about comments I read elsewhere online yesterday about choosing a name for a soon-to-be-born baby girl. The wife liked "Ophelia" but the husband said it was "too middle class".
Is it not okay to be considered middle class in the UK? Isn't that what most people would strive for? Not rich, not struggling, just able to go to work, earn a living and support one's family?
Where I am from (Canada) most people are "middle class" and it's seen as an okay thing: average salaries, a car, regular middle of the road life. I am guessing that that is not what it means here? Can anyone clarify for me please? "
I’m not sure I agree with all the comments to be honest class is often I mind state. I would never like to be seen as middle class I’m working class and have done well. My eduction does not sit me in a middle class bracket. Some people just don’t want to be seen as middle class where others do. In this case it could be they don’t want to burden a child with a middle class name as they will not be attending a middle class eduction. We all know what schools and growing up can be like. |
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What I do find amusing is when people buy fancy things on finance to appear "posh" or "with it", then silently suffer under crippling debt.
Live within your means, if anyone judges you on your possesions, I'd rather not be their acquaintance!
We all just need to start being comfortable with who we are. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"What I do find amusing is when people buy fancy things on finance to appear "posh" or "with it", then silently suffer under crippling debt.
Live within your means, if anyone judges you on your possesions, I'd rather not be their acquaintance!
We all just need to start being comfortable with who we are. "
*Returns Lamborghini hurracan back to the dealership* |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I am curious about comments I read elsewhere online yesterday about choosing a name for a soon-to-be-born baby girl. The wife liked "Ophelia" but the husband said it was "too middle class".
Is it not okay to be considered middle class in the UK? Isn't that what most people would strive for? Not rich, not struggling, just able to go to work, earn a living and support one's family?
Where I am from (Canada) most people are "middle class" and it's seen as an okay thing: average salaries, a car, regular middle of the road life. I am guessing that that is not what it means here? Can anyone clarify for me please?
Yup it means the same thing, and your outlook is the right one. For some reason some people like to turn their nose up at other classes of people, immature, insecure, jealous, think they are better... what ever it is, all bad traits in my opinion "
.
You assumed that the husband is ‘upper class’ and looking down on a middle class, didn’t you? Funnily enough, I considered it the opposite. Some of the most class conscious people I have come across are those deemed to be ‘working class’ who make all sorts of assumptions about the ‘other classes’, especially the middle class.
They berate the others for the schools they attend, the type of health service they use, even the newspaper they read whilst maintaining that only the working class shall inherit the Earth.
They are the true purveyors of an outdated concept, ever criticising and self-righteous. |
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"What I do find amusing is when people buy fancy things on finance to appear "posh" or "with it", then silently suffer under crippling debt.
Live within your means, if anyone judges you on your possesions, I'd rather not be their acquaintance!
We all just need to start being comfortable with who we are.
*Returns Lamborghini hurracan back to the dealership*"
 |
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By *orny PTMan
over a year ago
Peterborough |
"It all depends on Whether one gets out of the barth to pee... 
to piss in the sink ?
Only if there are no dirty dishes, that would never do!"
"Farther, you dirty liiiiiiitle man!" as Stepoe jnr would say. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I am curious about comments I read elsewhere online yesterday about choosing a name for a soon-to-be-born baby girl. The wife liked "Ophelia" but the husband said it was "too middle class".
Is it not okay to be considered middle class in the UK? Isn't that what most people would strive for? Not rich, not struggling, just able to go to work, earn a living and support one's family?
Where I am from (Canada) most people are "middle class" and it's seen as an okay thing: average salaries, a car, regular middle of the road life. I am guessing that that is not what it means here? Can anyone clarify for me please?
Yup it means the same thing, and your outlook is the right one. For some reason some people like to turn their nose up at other classes of people, immature, insecure, jealous, think they are better... what ever it is, all bad traits in my opinion
.
You assumed that the husband is ‘upper class’ and looking down on a middle class, didn’t you? Funnily enough, I considered it the opposite. Some of the most class conscious people I have come across are those deemed to be ‘working class’ who make all sorts of assumptions about the ‘other classes’, especially the middle class.
They berate the others for the schools they attend, the type of health service they use, even the newspaper they read whilst maintaining that only the working class shall inherit the Earth.
They are the true purveyors of an outdated concept, ever criticising and self-righteous."
I didn’t assume the husband was upper class, no. I didn’t understand why she was using middle class as a negative thing. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I am curious about comments I read elsewhere online yesterday about choosing a name for a soon-to-be-born baby girl. The wife liked "Ophelia" but the husband said it was "too middle class".
Is it not okay to be considered middle class in the UK? Isn't that what most people would strive for? Not rich, not struggling, just able to go to work, earn a living and support one's family?
Where I am from (Canada) most people are "middle class" and it's seen as an okay thing: average salaries, a car, regular middle of the road life. I am guessing that that is not what it means here? Can anyone clarify for me please?
Yup it means the same thing, and your outlook is the right one. For some reason some people like to turn their nose up at other classes of people, immature, insecure, jealous, think they are better... what ever it is, all bad traits in my opinion
.
You assumed that the husband is ‘upper class’ and looking down on a middle class, didn’t you? Funnily enough, I considered it the opposite. Some of the most class conscious people I have come across are those deemed to be ‘working class’ who make all sorts of assumptions about the ‘other classes’, especially the middle class.
They berate the others for the schools they attend, the type of health service they use, even the newspaper they read whilst maintaining that only the working class shall inherit the Earth.
They are the true purveyors of an outdated concept, ever criticising and self-righteous.
I didn’t assume the husband was upper class, no. I didn’t understand why she was using middle class as a negative thing. "
Sorry, not you OP. My comment was directed at the chap who replied to you. It seems he reads it as being an ‘upper class’ husband turning his nose up at a ‘middle class’ name, which is not necessarily the case. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I am curious about comments I read elsewhere online yesterday about choosing a name for a soon-to-be-born baby girl. The wife liked "Ophelia" but the husband said it was "too middle class".
Is it not okay to be considered middle class in the UK? Isn't that what most people would strive for? Not rich, not struggling, just able to go to work, earn a living and support one's family?
Where I am from (Canada) most people are "middle class" and it's seen as an okay thing: average salaries, a car, regular middle of the road life. I am guessing that that is not what it means here? Can anyone clarify for me please?
Yup it means the same thing, and your outlook is the right one. For some reason some people like to turn their nose up at other classes of people, immature, insecure, jealous, think they are better... what ever it is, all bad traits in my opinion
.
You assumed that the husband is ‘upper class’ and looking down on a middle class, didn’t you? Funnily enough, I considered it the opposite. Some of the most class conscious people I have come across are those deemed to be ‘working class’ who make all sorts of assumptions about the ‘other classes’, especially the middle class.
They berate the others for the schools they attend, the type of health service they use, even the newspaper they read whilst maintaining that only the working class shall inherit the Earth.
They are the true purveyors of an outdated concept, ever criticising and self-righteous.
I didn’t assume the husband was upper class, no. I didn’t understand why she was using middle class as a negative thing.
Sorry, not you OP. My comment was directed at the chap who replied to you. It seems he reads it as being an ‘upper class’ husband turning his nose up at a ‘middle class’ name, which is not necessarily the case."
Clearly looking for an argument because you seem to have completely ignored the ‘jealous’ which would be aimed at lower class looking at those more fortunate... don’t assume I’m assuming without making sure |
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"As foreigner I see this classism as part of a monarchist nation. Not that in other republican country there no classisms..just as not accentuate as here "
Its embedded in the culture here,its just not as clear cut as its been previously. |
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The one place where there's no class system is in the swinging scene. I've very often described swinging as, The grand leveler of all human greatness! Even if you are the chairman of an international corporation, bank with Coutts, and drive a Ferrari, if you can't get it up, the guy on government minimum wage who can repeat is far higher up the social ladder. You also don't need to take your CV and experian credit report to a swinging meet. |
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By *orny PTMan
over a year ago
Peterborough |
"The one place where there's no class system is in the swinging scene. I've very often described swinging as, The grand leveler of all human greatness! Even if you are the chairman of an international corporation, bank with Coutts, and drive a Ferrari, if you can't get it up, the guy on government minimum wage who can repeat is far higher up the social ladder. You also don't need to take your CV and experian credit report to a swinging meet. "
But some do insist on face pics, plenty of veris and some are even cheeky enough to ask you to be a site supporter. |
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