FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Identifying as non binary

Identifying as non binary

By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

So Demi Lovato is identifying as non binary according to the papers. In all honesty I don’t get it, but what anyone else wants to do is their own choice/ business etc.

My question for the masses is by sight alone when you see someone in the street or if you are a worker serving said person, how are you supposed to know what to address anyone by?

I mean calling them sir or Madam will upset them/they.

So what’s the crack.

Someone explain please?

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By *otmyrealname99Man over a year ago

Manchester

You could ask

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By *stellaWoman over a year ago

London

Just say hello, and if you want ask someone what pronouns they use.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"You could ask"

Very true, but say for instance your job is a greeter in a store or bank. How do you greet said person?

Ask them what they identify as before welcoming them? Just seems weird/ rude. Also so does assumptions, but its just a query thread really.

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By *emorefridaCouple over a year ago

La la land

In my workplace we have to be very careful when using gender pronouns. And we are encouraged to add ours on our emails etc.

I tend to avoid them which is relatively easy if I don't know their preferred pronouns are, and use they etc

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

They know who they are.

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By *naswingdressWoman over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

Avoid gendered language.

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By *stellaWoman over a year ago

London

"They know who they are. "

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By *otmyrealname99Man over a year ago

Manchester

"You could ask

Very true, but say for instance your job is a greeter in a store or bank. How do you greet said person?

Ask them what they identify as before welcoming them? Just seems weird/ rude. Also so does assumptions, but its just a query thread really."

I always like "Hi".

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By *ad NannaWoman over a year ago

East London

Call everyone sausage.

That's what my gay friends do.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"You could ask

Very true, but say for instance your job is a greeter in a store or bank. How do you greet said person?

Ask them what they identify as before welcoming them? Just seems weird/ rude. Also so does assumptions, but its just a query thread really.

I always like "Hi". "

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By *otmyrealname99Man over a year ago

Manchester

"You could ask

Very true, but say for instance your job is a greeter in a store or bank. How do you greet said person?

Ask them what they identify as before welcoming them? Just seems weird/ rude. Also so does assumptions, but its just a query thread really.

I always like "Hi".

*Swoons*

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By *eadseekerMan over a year ago

worcester

"Call everyone sausage.

That's what my gay friends do.

Haha

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Call everyone sausage.

That's what my gay friends do.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"You could ask

Very true, but say for instance your job is a greeter in a store or bank. How do you greet said person?

Ask them what they identify as before welcoming them? Just seems weird/ rude. Also so does assumptions, but its just a query thread really."

Good Morning/afternoon - doesn’t need anything else but a smile.

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By *ud and BryanCouple over a year ago

Boston, Lincolnshire

Being from Lincolnshire, we just call everyone Duck (it's a colloquial form of Duke our Duchess)

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By *ora the explorerWoman over a year ago

Paradise, Herts

"Being from Lincolnshire, we just call everyone Duck (it's a colloquial form of Duke our Duchess)"

Mancs call everyone cock or kid.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Being from Lincolnshire, we just call everyone Duck (it's a colloquial form of Duke our Duchess)

Mancs call everyone cock or kid. "

Surely calling non binary folk cock is a bit rude though

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Bit of ops topic but does a non binary go full Ken and Barbie doll with surgery or do they keep the genitals they were born with because I fully understand been born in the wrong sex so a man choosing to identify as a women or vide versa and potentially having surgery along thos lines but if you identify as neither do they chop it of or plug it up?

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By *ora the explorerWoman over a year ago

Paradise, Herts

"Being from Lincolnshire, we just call everyone Duck (it's a colloquial form of Duke our Duchess)

Mancs call everyone cock or kid.

Surely calling non binary folk cock is a bit rude though

Everything’s probably rude now. We’re going to have to learn a whole new language I reckon.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I just say hello. I don't think I use pronouns to/ at someone, only when talking about them to someone else.

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By *erriAnneTV/TS over a year ago

The shire

Load of shit this non binary stuff. We have 2 forms of human male and female. Why the fuck should the world listen to a few who have no desire to be either. You want to push your non binary views upon me fine then I'll push my views upon you and you can fuck off

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Who really cares, you were born with a cock so you are Mr, you were born with a Pussy so you are Miss / Mrs, live with it ffs. I expect some flack but come on WTF

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"You could ask

Very true, but say for instance your job is a greeter in a store or bank. How do you greet said person?

Ask them what they identify as before welcoming them? Just seems weird/ rude. Also so does assumptions, but its just a query thread really.

I always like "Hi".

*Swoons*"

*waits till you hit the deck n dives in for the mouth to mouth*... See what ya started now!?

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman over a year ago

evesham

You could just say hi initially. No need to gender them.

Then as the conversation goes along, providing that they don't mention it as an outlier you could ask when their pronouns are.

To be honest I think most people will forgive an opening faux pas in pronouns. It's those who continue to misgender on purpose that people have an issue with.

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman over a year ago

evesham

"Bit of ops topic but does a non binary go full Ken and Barbie doll with surgery or do they keep the genitals they were born with because I fully understand been born in the wrong sex so a man choosing to identify as a women or vide versa and potentially having surgery along thos lines but if you identify as neither do they chop it of or plug it up?"

Are you mixing up gender and sex?

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman over a year ago

evesham

"Who really cares, you were born with a cock so you are Mr, you were born with a Pussy so you are Miss / Mrs, live with it ffs. I expect some flack but come on WTF"

No. I shan't live with it. Who are you to make demands on how others see themselves?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Being from Lincolnshire, we just call everyone Duck (it's a colloquial form of Duke our Duchess)

Mancs call everyone cock or kid.

Surely calling non binary folk cock is a bit rude though

Everything’s probably rude now. We’re going to have to learn a whole new language I reckon. "

yep

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Love it. Time to get the pop corn out.

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman over a year ago

evesham

"Load of shit this non binary stuff. We have 2 forms of human male and female. Why the fuck should the world listen to a few who have no desire to be either. You want to push your non binary views upon me fine then I'll push my views upon you and you can fuck off "

How wonderfully tolerant of someone in a marginalised group that is often the target of ridicule and attack. What an amazingly tolerant and inclusive attitude.

How would you respond to someone saying that men wanting to be women is a load of shit and you should just live your life as the sex you were born as?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Are you mixing up gender and sex? "
are gender and sex not the same thing?

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By * Sophie xTV/TS over a year ago

Derby

"Who really cares, you were born with a cock so you are Mr, you were born with a Pussy so you are Miss / Mrs, live with it ffs. I expect some flack but come on WTF"

And those that are born intersex or hermaphrodite?

And a lot of people do care a great deal.

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By *ljamMan over a year ago

Edinburgh

Are you mixing up gender and sex? are gender and sex not the same thing?"

No they're not. Sex is biological (and far more complicated than men have cocks and women have pussies), gender is cultural. If you Google it you can get a fuller description of the difference.

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By *ex-BombsCouple over a year ago

Flitwick

Political correctness gone mad! A spade is a spade! Get on with living our lives

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By *ex-BombsCouple over a year ago

Flitwick

"Who really cares, you were born with a cock so you are Mr, you were born with a Pussy so you are Miss / Mrs, live with it ffs. I expect some flack but come on WTF"

Agree 100%

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Are you mixing up gender and sex? are gender and sex not the same thing?

No they're not. Sex is biological (and far more complicated than men have cocks and women have pussies), gender is cultural. If you Google it you can get a fuller description of the difference. "
just googled, it says there is 2 genders of which there are 72 identifies of them 2 genders.... think I live a sheltered life

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Why are you worrying? Why not just do what you think is right, wait to be corrected by said person if they feel offended and learn by experience. You can't get everything right all of the time and that's the value of life imho

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By *andyfloss2000Woman over a year ago

ashford

Charming!

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By *ljamMan over a year ago

Edinburgh

Are you mixing up gender and sex? are gender and sex not the same thing?

No they're not. Sex is biological (and far more complicated than men have cocks and women have pussies), gender is cultural. If you Google it you can get a fuller description of the difference. just googled, it says there is 2 genders of which there are 72 identifies of them 2 genders.... think I live a sheltered life "

Yeah, it can get complicated when you go deep into it, but then so can anything. I think just understanding the basic difference is worthwhile.

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By *andyMinx_tvTV/TS over a year ago

Leeds

Are you mixing up gender and sex? are gender and sex not the same thing?

No they're not. Sex is biological (and far more complicated than men have cocks and women have pussies), gender is cultural. If you Google it you can get a fuller description of the difference. "

This is quite correct. There are 2 biological sexes - male and female. But gender is how you identify which may be different to your biological sex

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By *andyfloss2000Woman over a year ago

ashford

"Who really cares, you were born with a cock so you are Mr, you were born with a Pussy so you are Miss / Mrs, live with it ffs. I expect some flack but come on WTF

No. I shan't live with it. Who are you to make demands on how others see themselves? "

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By *naswingdressWoman over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

I just think it's nice to treat people how they want to be treated.

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By *andyfloss2000Woman over a year ago

ashford

Some very intolerant bigots on this thread I see!

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By *emorefridaCouple over a year ago

La la land

"I just think it's nice to treat people how they want to be treated."

What that's just political correctness gone mad

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By *olly_chromaticTV/TS over a year ago

Stockport

Here's the thing, if you don't want to be non-binary, then nobody is wanting you to be. You tell people what you want to be called, and you're perfectly entitled to be offended if they call you something different.

And if somebody tells you want they want to be called, then they are perfectly entitled to be offended if you call them something different.

And for all those who declare that using non-binary pronouns is totally impossible, because everybody must be some gender or other, then you could possibly read through my post here, even including the quoted words from KerriAnne. Full of first, second, third person singular and third person plural pronouns, and none of them are gendered.

So KerriAnne, if you have no wish to be referred to by non-gendered pronouns, how about you announce what pronouns you would prefer? Until that day I shall continue to be polite and refer to you in a gender non-specific way, as I have no idea what gender if any you prefer, and it would be impolite to refer to you as a gender that you do not identify with.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Just say hello, and if you want ask someone what pronouns they use. "

Eh?

That's the response round here if you used the word, 'Pronoun'

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By *uriousscouserWoman over a year ago

Wirral

"I just think it's nice to treat people how they want to be treated."

So much this. It doesn't hurt me in any way to treat others with respect and kindness.

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By *naswingdressWoman over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"I just think it's nice to treat people how they want to be treated.

What that's just political correctness gone mad

Being considerate. How awful

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By *ora the explorerWoman over a year ago

Paradise, Herts

"I just think it's nice to treat people how they want to be treated."

I agree definitely but I’ve had 50 years of he she him her and to have to automatically think to say “they” will take time for a lot of people and by doing that I don’t think they would mean to offend. It will take some getting used to for people.

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By *yron69Man over a year ago

Fareham

Just cal me Sir.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I just think it's nice to treat people how they want to be treated.

So much this. It doesn't hurt me in any way to treat others with respect and kindness."

yes if someone wants to be referred to in a specific way then they should be.

Respect and tolerance is a 2 way street though so if I don’t want to get tangled up in all this recent trend to talk in gender neutral terms about everything then that should be respected in return.

I will still call the person that delivers my mail a Postman or Postwoman and not a PostPerson. And have a Chairman or Chairwoman etc.

And I choose not to refer to myself as a “cis” male all of a sudden when for all of my life up to about 6 months ago just saying I’m a man has been fine (but now I’m a bigot if I say that).

If a person with a cock wants to be call Miss or Madam good luck to them and if I ever have to address them for whatever reason I will use their preferred terms. But don’t try and force the whole of society to change the way they speak to accommodate non-binary demands. Non-binary people need to accept that people will still use gendered language like they have for centuries. The two can exist side by side.

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By *naswingdressWoman over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"I just think it's nice to treat people how they want to be treated.

Sure. Mistakes happen, that's reality. But, like, "I'm not going to do that, world's gone mad"... That I don't get. Why not treat people how they want to be treated?

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman over a year ago

evesham

"I just think it's nice to treat people how they want to be treated.

So much this. It doesn't hurt me in any way to treat others with respect and kindness.

yes if someone wants to be referred to in a specific way then they should be.

I will still call the person that delivers my mail a Postman or Postwoman and not a PostPerson. And have a Chairman or Chairwoman etc.

And I choose not to refer to myself as a “cis” male all of a sudden when for all of my life up to about 6 months ago just saying I’m a man has been fine (but now I’m a bigot if I say that).

No. You are wrong simply because asking you to use non gendered words for job roles does not affect your mental health, just your sensibilities.

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By *olly_chromaticTV/TS over a year ago

Stockport

It is incredibly difficult to get any form of gender surgery, and contrary to popular belief it isn't possible to just pop down the local hospital and order from a menu. "yeah I think I'll have some size 40D boobs, but I'd like a hairy chest and a big beard, can you take the cock off but leave the balls please, while you're at it can you give me a borg eye that lights up with a laser beam...". I guess if you have a spare few billion and can just buy yourself an entire hospital, then pay off the oversight boards, and get your government to pass special laws for you, yeah you could probably do that. But back in the real world, getting the standard gender confirmation surgery involves about five years of proving yourself to psychologists and doctors, applying to a board of people that you won't even ever see for permission, waiting another 5 years for any hope of getting NHS treatment, or paying something like 30 grand for going private - which will still have at least a 2 year waiting list in this country. You can always go abroad, about the same amount to get done in Thailand but at least you can reduce the surgical wait to maybe 6 months. You still have to go through the initial 5 year rigmarole to get permission even to get done abroad though, if you somehow manage to get black market surgery without the permissions then you have actually committed an offence in UK law (and stand a good chance of dying from the black market surgery).

Oh and those psychologists and permissions board? Anybody that even makes the slightest mention of non-binary or gender fluid, they ain't getting no permission of any kind. Anybody that cannot make a statement that they are going to live permanently full time within their defined gender, which must be male or female, select one only, and cannot back that up by proving they have announced themselves to the whole world - family, friends, work, bank, tax office, legally changed name - with documentary and photographic proof of at least two years living like that - they ain't getting that gender recognition certificate. Transwomen have actually been refused permission because they were seen to be wearing jeans and tee-shirt instead of a pink frock - just not girly enough, obviously not serious. And transmen have been refused because they didn't look manly enough, got to have that lumberjack shirt, shaved head, big bushy beard...

So all those making ignorant remarks about transgender matters - please go educate yourselves, come back when you actually know something.

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By *ora the explorerWoman over a year ago

Paradise, Herts

"I just think it's nice to treat people how they want to be treated.

Sure. Mistakes happen, that's reality. But, like, "I'm not going to do that, world's gone mad"... That I don't get. Why not treat people how they want to be treated?"

Oh yes that’s just obnoxious. If someone prefers to be addressed in a certain way then I will do that but I’m not going to change to the extent of addressing everyone as they “just in case”.

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman over a year ago

evesham

"Just cal me Sir."

If that's you're preferred title, then i respect that

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By *ools and the brainCouple over a year ago

couple, us we him her.

I'm fine with people calling themselves whatever they damn well choose.

I Will have a problem when people start dictating what I choose to call myself.

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By *eliWoman over a year ago

"They know who they are. "

Best thing I've read all day.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I just think it's nice to treat people how they want to be treated.

So much this. It doesn't hurt me in any way to treat others with respect and kindness.

yes if someone wants to be referred to in a specific way then they should be.

I will still call the person that delivers my mail a Postman or Postwoman and not a PostPerson. And have a Chairman or Chairwoman etc.

And I choose not to refer to myself as a “cis” male all of a sudden when for all of my life up to about 6 months ago just saying I’m a man has been fine (but now I’m a bigot if I say that).

No. You are wrong simply because asking you to use non gendered words for job roles does not affect your mental health, just your sensibilities. "

This is the problem.

“No. You are wrong”

Actually, who says your opinion is any more valid than mine? Why am I wrong and you right?

Who decided? And when?

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman over a year ago

evesham

"I'm fine with people calling themselves whatever they damn well choose.

I Will have a problem when people start dictating what I choose to call myself."

Why do you think they will?

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman over a year ago

evesham

"I just think it's nice to treat people how they want to be treated.

So much this. It doesn't hurt me in any way to treat others with respect and kindness.

yes if someone wants to be referred to in a specific way then they should be.

I will still call the person that delivers my mail a Postman or Postwoman and not a PostPerson. And have a Chairman or Chairwoman etc.

And I choose not to refer to myself as a “cis” male all of a sudden when for all of my life up to about 6 months ago just saying I’m a man has been fine (but now I’m a bigot if I say that).

No. You are wrong simply because asking you to use non gendered words for job roles does not affect your mental health, just your sensibilities.

This is the problem.

“No. You are wrong”

Actually, who says your opinion is any more valid than mine? Why am I wrong and you right?

Who decided? And when?"

Ok... I think you are wrong.... Better?

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By *naswingdressWoman over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"I just think it's nice to treat people how they want to be treated.

Sure. Mistakes happen, that's reality. But, like, "I'm not going to do that, world's gone mad"... That I don't get. Why not treat people how they want to be treated?

Oh yes that’s just obnoxious. If someone prefers to be addressed in a certain way then I will do that but I’m not going to change to the extent of addressing everyone as they “just in case”. "

No.

But, in a shop, as the example... Just drop the sir or madam.

Good afternoon, would you like assistance?

Have you found everything you're looking for?

... Not hard. Not unnatural. (In fact I'd be as weirded out by madam as sir. I'm not royalty FFS)

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Call everyone sausage.

That's what my gay friends do.

Love this

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By *ora the explorerWoman over a year ago

Paradise, Herts

"I just think it's nice to treat people how they want to be treated.

Sure. Mistakes happen, that's reality. But, like, "I'm not going to do that, world's gone mad"... That I don't get. Why not treat people how they want to be treated?

Oh yes that’s just obnoxious. If someone prefers to be addressed in a certain way then I will do that but I’m not going to change to the extent of addressing everyone as they “just in case”.

No.

But, in a shop, as the example... Just drop the sir or madam.

Good afternoon, would you like assistance?

Have you found everything you're looking for?

... Not hard. Not unnatural. (In fact I'd be as weirded out by madam as sir. I'm not royalty FFS)"

Haha yeah I’m not big on madam. Sir and madam are a bit outdated anyway I think.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I just think it's nice to treat people how they want to be treated.

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By *olly_chromaticTV/TS over a year ago

Stockport

"I just think it's nice to treat people how they want to be treated.

So much this. It doesn't hurt me in any way to treat others with respect and kindness.

yes if someone wants to be referred to in a specific way then they should be.

I will still call the person that delivers my mail a Postman or Postwoman and not a PostPerson. And have a Chairman or Chairwoman etc.

And I choose not to refer to myself as a “cis” male all of a sudden when for all of my life up to about 6 months ago just saying I’m a man has been fine (but now I’m a bigot if I say that).

Just a thought, but you could try using Postie instead of Postman/Postwoman? And it is already in very common usage to talk about "the Chair of the meeting". Also, in your posting you already use a great deal of non-gendered language, how hard was that? Oh, you'll say, I didn't know what gender "they" are, so I had to use "they". Funny thing, the actual default in the English language is already to use non-gendered pronouns. It's easy, and everyone knows how to do it already, it is the way they were taught English!

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By *imi_RougeWoman over a year ago

Portsmouth

Gender is what's between your ears (in your mind)

Sex is what's between your legs. Very simply put.

It doesn't affect your life how other people wish to identify, so just let them get on with it.

A simple hello is all that's needed.

And a bit of compassion.

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By *rHotNottsMan over a year ago

Dubai & Nottingham

No one knows, they haven’t worked it out yet. Just be grateful you’re not in the police they have codes for male, female, black white etc when pursuing suspects , they need a masters degree in gender and cultural studies now to know what to say on the radio

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I just think it's nice to treat people how they want to be treated.

So much this. It doesn't hurt me in any way to treat others with respect and kindness.

yes if someone wants to be referred to in a specific way then they should be.

I will still call the person that delivers my mail a Postman or Postwoman and not a PostPerson. And have a Chairman or Chairwoman etc.

And I choose not to refer to myself as a “cis” male all of a sudden when for all of my life up to about 6 months ago just saying I’m a man has been fine (but now I’m a bigot if I say that).

No. You are wrong simply because asking you to use non gendered words for job roles does not affect your mental health, just your sensibilities.

This is the problem.

“No. You are wrong”

Actually, who says your opinion is any more valid than mine? Why am I wrong and you right?

Who decided? And when?

Ok... I think you are wrong.... Better? "

Yes, better.

I’ve already said that I will address people as they wish to be addressed. If I want to say “the postman’s been” then, in my opinion, that’s perfectly fine. Just as it has been all of my life up to about the last few months. But, like I said earlier, now I’m a bigot apparently. How dare I assume their gender, right?

If they had said to me that they wanted to be addressed as a woman, then that’s different. And I would. But I’m not “non-gendering” everything I say “just in case” I’ve accidentally mis-gendered someone.

I’m sure most on here will disagree. And that’s fine. We’re all allowed our opinions and I respect those whose opinions are different to mine

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"No one knows, they haven’t worked it out yet. Just be grateful you’re not in the police they have codes for male, female, black white etc when pursuing suspects , they need a masters degree in gender and cultural studies now to know what to say on the radio "

It's OK the police all look about 12 the millennials know the lingo

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Follow the science

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I just think it's nice to treat people how they want to be treated.

So much this. It doesn't hurt me in any way to treat others with respect and kindness.

yes if someone wants to be referred to in a specific way then they should be.

I will still call the person that delivers my mail a Postman or Postwoman and not a PostPerson. And have a Chairman or Chairwoman etc.

And I choose not to refer to myself as a “cis” male all of a sudden when for all of my life up to about 6 months ago just saying I’m a man has been fine (but now I’m a bigot if I say that).

Why though? It’s been fine for years. I do not mean any offence when I talk in gendered language (if I did and my use is malicious then that’s a whole different kettle of fish). Surely it’s the problem of the person taking offence of what’s been perfectly acceptable language for hundreds of years?

It seems that I have to con_ede to the demands and accept the opinions of people who prefer non-gendered language, with absolutely no give the other way. It seems there’s no middle ground.

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By * Sophie xTV/TS over a year ago

Derby

Half of the time people arguing over gender and how others wish to be referred to as is about as useful as a eunuch telling a woman how to give birth from their own experience.

You may have the first clue about it but as for having any real understanding of it, many simply don't and live in a little bubble of misunderstanding.

Some however are enlightened and do care about others so do take notice of the way the world and the people within it is changing.

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman over a year ago

evesham

"I just think it's nice to treat people how they want to be treated.

So much this. It doesn't hurt me in any way to treat others with respect and kindness.

yes if someone wants to be referred to in a specific way then they should be.

I will still call the person that delivers my mail a Postman or Postwoman and not a PostPerson. And have a Chairman or Chairwoman etc.

And I choose not to refer to myself as a “cis” male all of a sudden when for all of my life up to about 6 months ago just saying I’m a man has been fine (but now I’m a bigot if I say that).

No. You are wrong simply because asking you to use non gendered words for job roles does not affect your mental health, just your sensibilities.

This is the problem.

“No. You are wrong”

Actually, who says your opinion is any more valid than mine? Why am I wrong and you right?

Who decided? And when?

Ok... I think you are wrong.... Better?

Yes, better.

I’m sure most on here will disagree. And that’s fine. We’re all allowed our opinions and I respect those whose opinions are different to mine

But that's not about misgendering people, it's about removing the idea of gender specific jobs, much like saying firefighter, police officer etc.

And again, your refusal to move with the times in terms of understanding and acceptance is, in my opinion, wrong. What detriment does it actually cause you to say chair person or post person (although I've never actually heard that term before)? But what harm can it do someone to continue to use those terms simply because you refuse to? It's not even about the person doing the job. It's societal perception.

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By *eeleyWoman over a year ago

Dudley

People can identify as whatever they wish, however, I do not identify as a cis woman, I just identify as a woman, if people want labels, that's fine but they shouldn't be forced upon other people.

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By *rHotNottsMan over a year ago

Dubai & Nottingham

"I just think it's nice to treat people how they want to be treated.

So much this. It doesn't hurt me in any way to treat others with respect and kindness.

yes if someone wants to be referred to in a specific way then they should be.

I will still call the person that delivers my mail a Postman or Postwoman and not a PostPerson. And have a Chairman or Chairwoman etc.

And I choose not to refer to myself as a “cis” male all of a sudden when for all of my life up to about 6 months ago just saying I’m a man has been fine (but now I’m a bigot if I say that).

It seems that I have to con_ede to the demands and accept the opinions of people who prefer non-gendered language, with absolutely no give the other way. It seems there’s no middle ground."

Because everybody has the right to be a victim now

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"People can identify as whatever they wish, however, I do not identify as a cis woman, I just identify as a woman, if people want labels, that's fine but they shouldn't be forced upon other people. "

well exactly. Respect others. And likewise they should respect you. A 2-way respect street

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By *oneybeesCouple over a year ago

Worcs, West Midlands

I for one will not apologise for using sir or madam, ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls.....ever!!!! There is only two forms of sexuality.... male or female, no one can have an opinion on that because it's fact, as is there is no such thing as non binary, never has been, never will be. Just the latest present fad which will disappear soon enough

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

So all those making ignorant remarks about transgender matters - please go educate yourselves, come back when you actually know something."

So how long would I have to live as part of the collective before getting the laser eye thing? That'd be really handy for finding stuff in the dark.

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By *ora the explorerWoman over a year ago

Paradise, Herts

"People can identify as whatever they wish, however, I do not identify as a cis woman, I just identify as a woman, if people want labels, that's fine but they shouldn't be forced upon other people. "

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By *acey_RedWoman over a year ago

Liverpool

"I for one will not apologise for using sir or madam, ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls.....ever!!!! There is only two forms of sexuality.... male or female, no one can have an opinion on that because it's fact, as is there is no such thing as non binary, never has been, never will be. Just the latest present fad which will disappear soon enough

It's hardly a new concept. Many other cultures have had more than two genders for a very long time.

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By *ex-BombsCouple over a year ago

Flitwick

Totally agree!!! Too much pandering goes on, there’ll be another term in about 5 minutes

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By *amantha TSWoman over a year ago

Swindon

For me the one pet hate I have is "guys" when addressing a group, especially if there's females there (genetic or otherwise).

For general addressing I always found a simple "Good Morning/Afternoon/Evening/Night" works perfectly. No need to put a pronoun on there. Respectful, polite, welcoming.

As for mine? Just address me as God. Possibly the oldest non-binary being going!

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By *rHotNottsMan over a year ago

Dubai & Nottingham

"I just think it's nice to treat people how they want to be treated.

So much this. It doesn't hurt me in any way to treat others with respect and kindness.

yes if someone wants to be referred to in a specific way then they should be.

I will still call the person that delivers my mail a Postman or Postwoman and not a PostPerson. And have a Chairman or Chairwoman etc.

And I choose not to refer to myself as a “cis” male all of a sudden when for all of my life up to about 6 months ago just saying I’m a man has been fine (but now I’m a bigot if I say that).

No. You are wrong simply because asking you to use non gendered words for job roles does not affect your mental health, just your sensibilities.

This is the problem.

“No. You are wrong”

Actually, who says your opinion is any more valid than mine? Why am I wrong and you right?

Who decided? And when?

Ok... I think you are wrong.... Better?

Yes, better.

I’m sure most on here will disagree. And that’s fine. We’re all allowed our opinions and I respect those whose opinions are different to mine

But that's not about misgendering people, it's about removing the idea of gender specific jobs, much like saying firefighter, police officer etc.

Understanding and acceptance is not the issue, people are objecting to being forced to redefine their language to suit a tiny minority or face being accused of hate crime. Most of this doesn’t originate from the non binary community either it comes from academic fascists like Ash Sarkar

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By * Sophie xTV/TS over a year ago

Derby

Totally agree!!! Too much pandering goes on, there’ll be another term in about 5 minutes "

Would it be OK to refer to you as an It?

An it is an object, a person would loosely come under the banner as an object within some conditions you can quite correctly be referred to as It.

Is that OK with you or would you find it offensive?

P.s. no sarcasm meant at all, it is an open debate.

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By *ex-BombsCouple over a year ago

Flitwick

Totally agree!!! Too much pandering goes on, there’ll be another term in about 5 minutes

Would it be OK to refer to you as an It?

An it is an object, a person would loosely come under the banner as an object within some conditions you can quite correctly be referred to as It.

Is that OK with you or would you find it offensive?

P.s. no sarcasm meant at all, it is an open debate."

A person isn’t an object per se however I’m female so whatever people use wouldn’t offend me in the slightest and people can call themselves whatever they choose to that is after all personal choice but to insist everyone else must tow the line and address as they etc is just becoming over the top

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman over a year ago

evesham

I just can't with dojd of thd people in this thread! It's actually heartbreaking to see such intolerance for such an insignificant thing to them.

Why does it offend people if other people want to be called they/them?

How is a firefighter any different to a fireman to you? The job is the same but for those who do not identify as a man, to have vocation that has a non gendered title means a world of difference.

It just beggars belief. It really does.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

What's the name for a non gendered fisherman??

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman over a year ago

evesham

"What's the name for a non gendered fisherman??"

Sailor? Deckhand?

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By *naswingdressWoman over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"I just can't with dojd of thd people in this thread! It's actually heartbreaking to see such intolerance for such an insignificant thing to them.

Why does it offend people if other people want to be called they/them?

How is a firefighter any different to a fireman to you? The job is the same but for those who do not identify as a man, to have vocation that has a non gendered title means a world of difference.

It just beggars belief. It really does. "

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I think everyone just needs to do whatever feels right for them. It is the simplest possible sentence ever but I think it is the most accurate.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Did she ever build that bridge ?

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By * Sophie xTV/TS over a year ago

Derby

Totally agree!!! Too much pandering goes on, there’ll be another term in about 5 minutes

Would it be OK to refer to you as an It?

An it is an object, a person would loosely come under the banner as an object within some conditions you can quite correctly be referred to as It.

Is that OK with you or would you find it offensive?

P.s. no sarcasm meant at all, it is an open debate.

A person does qualify as an object as you are nothing more than collection of molecules that make up a whole that has been given the title of a human being or woman in your case.

Humankind gave people of your gender the woman moniker as it needed to have a title with which to refer to your gender hence woman.

Why is it so difficult for you to grasp that there are more than 2 genders and this is accepted within the medical profession as a whole yet you feel it too hard to refer to someone as they instead of him or her?

Its a few letters or a slight change to your vocabulary which is hardly difficult to do.

You would expect and hope for others to change how they referred to you if you were to become disabled so why the resistance instead of acceptance?

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By *ex-BombsCouple over a year ago

Flitwick

Totally agree!!! Too much pandering goes on, there’ll be another term in about 5 minutes

Would it be OK to refer to you as an It?

An it is an object, a person would loosely come under the banner as an object within some conditions you can quite correctly be referred to as It.

Is that OK with you or would you find it offensive?

P.s. no sarcasm meant at all, it is an open debate.

A person does qualify as an object as you are nothing more than collection of molecules that make up a whole that has been given the title of a human being or woman in your case.

Humankind gave people of your gender the woman moniker as it needed to have a title with which to refer to your gender hence woman.

Its a few letters or a slight change to your vocabulary which is hardly difficult to do.

You would expect and hope for others to change how they referred to you if you were to become disabled so why the resistance instead of acceptance?

There’s no difficulty to grasp the concept it’s simply personal choice why should anyone be told they have to do certain things/use certain terms and then be frowned upon if they choose not to conform? If someone can choose to be whatever they want to be in any aspect of their lives then why is it considered resisting if another doesn’t wish to use those terms? I have family and friends that are disabled, gay, undecided I refer to them by their name not by their situation

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman over a year ago

evesham

Totally agree!!! Too much pandering goes on, there’ll be another term in about 5 minutes

Would it be OK to refer to you as an It?

An it is an object, a person would loosely come under the banner as an object within some conditions you can quite correctly be referred to as It.

Is that OK with you or would you find it offensive?

P.s. no sarcasm meant at all, it is an open debate.

A person does qualify as an object as you are nothing more than collection of molecules that make up a whole that has been given the title of a human being or woman in your case.

Humankind gave people of your gender the woman moniker as it needed to have a title with which to refer to your gender hence woman.

Its a few letters or a slight change to your vocabulary which is hardly difficult to do.

You would expect and hope for others to change how they referred to you if you were to become disabled so why the resistance instead of acceptance?

Do you mean you bring made to use terms in reference to yourself? As in people saying you must refer to yourself as they/them etc?

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By * Sophie xTV/TS over a year ago

Derby

Totally agree!!! Too much pandering goes on, there’ll be another term in about 5 minutes

Would it be OK to refer to you as an It?

An it is an object, a person would loosely come under the banner as an object within some conditions you can quite correctly be referred to as It.

Is that OK with you or would you find it offensive?

P.s. no sarcasm meant at all, it is an open debate.

A person does qualify as an object as you are nothing more than collection of molecules that make up a whole that has been given the title of a human being or woman in your case.

Humankind gave people of your gender the woman moniker as it needed to have a title with which to refer to your gender hence woman.

Its a few letters or a slight change to your vocabulary which is hardly difficult to do.

You would expect and hope for others to change how they referred to you if you were to become disabled so why the resistance instead of acceptance?

So I know that you wish to be known as a woman yet it is within your realms of your reality that I can refer to you as whatever I wish, surely at that point you cannot take offence at me referring to you as a man or even a praying mantis?

You may want to be called a woman but I don't want to conform so you're saying it's OK then?

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By *olly_chromaticTV/TS over a year ago

Stockport

"People can identify as whatever they wish, however, I do not identify as a cis woman, I just identify as a woman, if people want labels, that's fine but they shouldn't be forced upon other people. "

Cis woman and trans woman are just specific categories within the larger class "woman". Nobody needs to "identify" as a cis woman, and for most day to day purposes it doesn't even need to be stated. However in the same way that you might sometimes find it useful to refer to somebody as "a trans woman", if for some reason you need to make the distinction, at times it can be useful for others to refer to "a cis woman" when they need to make the distinction.

A very large driver in the usage of cis gender / trans gender terminology is in fact caused by people that insist upon making these gender distinctions, mainly cis gender people! Trans people are a reality, so if for instance the government wishes to make laws that state legal differences between genders, and make special cases for trans gender people, then they are forced to use language that specifically categorises non-trans gender people.

We could of course get rid of the "cis" word, and always refer to "non-trans". Trouble is that following that guideline for language, only ever having one of a pair of opposites, we would have to say things like "the non-black non-trans man pulled the shoe onto their not-left foot".

There is no slur or insult in stating cisgender or transgender, no more than there is in stating heterosexual or homosexual. You use the term when it happens to be necessary to make the distinction, you don't when there is no need to make a distinction.

You tell me that your gender identity is "woman/female", fine that is all I need to know and all you prefer to reveal. This tells me that I should use female pronouns when addressing you, and for most practical purposes apply the societal assumptions of how to treat somebody that identifies as female. You haven't told me if you belong to the sub-group of transgender female, or cisgender female, it's none of my business and I don't need to know. If I was your doctor and about to prescribe some form of hormone based therapy, then I would probably need to know. And a person that was about to have sex with you might be interested to know if I you were a cis woman or a trans woman (though that's up to you, I usually find it polite to tell people beforehand to avoid surprises, but there's no law about that).

Of course we could just get rid of all these pronouns and gendered language - but that's where this thread started!

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By *eeleyWoman over a year ago

Dudley

Totally agree!!! Too much pandering goes on, there’ll be another term in about 5 minutes

Would it be OK to refer to you as an It?

An it is an object, a person would loosely come under the banner as an object within some conditions you can quite correctly be referred to as It.

Is that OK with you or would you find it offensive?

P.s. no sarcasm meant at all, it is an open debate.

A person does qualify as an object as you are nothing more than collection of molecules that make up a whole that has been given the title of a human being or woman in your case.

Humankind gave people of your gender the woman moniker as it needed to have a title with which to refer to your gender hence woman.

Its a few letters or a slight change to your vocabulary which is hardly difficult to do.

You would expect and hope for others to change how they referred to you if you were to become disabled so why the resistance instead of acceptance?

You may want to be called a woman but I don't want to conform so you're saying it's OK then? "

I'll be like a praying mantis when restrictions are up and I find a sexy man

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By *ssex_tomMan over a year ago

Chelmsford

"Avoid gendered language."

Agreed.. just call them all twats.. that way there is no discrimination..

And labour take another trouncing...

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By * Sophie xTV/TS over a year ago

Derby

Totally agree!!! Too much pandering goes on, there’ll be another term in about 5 minutes

Would it be OK to refer to you as an It?

An it is an object, a person would loosely come under the banner as an object within some conditions you can quite correctly be referred to as It.

Is that OK with you or would you find it offensive?

P.s. no sarcasm meant at all, it is an open debate.

A person does qualify as an object as you are nothing more than collection of molecules that make up a whole that has been given the title of a human being or woman in your case.

Humankind gave people of your gender the woman moniker as it needed to have a title with which to refer to your gender hence woman.

Its a few letters or a slight change to your vocabulary which is hardly difficult to do.

You would expect and hope for others to change how they referred to you if you were to become disabled so why the resistance instead of acceptance?

You may want to be called a woman but I don't want to conform so you're saying it's OK then?

I'll be like a praying mantis when restrictions are up and I find a sexy man

Then thats how I'm going to refer to you forevermore Keeley

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By *ex-BombsCouple over a year ago

Flitwick

Totally agree!!! Too much pandering goes on, there’ll be another term in about 5 minutes

Would it be OK to refer to you as an It?

An it is an object, a person would loosely come under the banner as an object within some conditions you can quite correctly be referred to as It.

Is that OK with you or would you find it offensive?

P.s. no sarcasm meant at all, it is an open debate.

A person does qualify as an object as you are nothing more than collection of molecules that make up a whole that has been given the title of a human being or woman in your case.

Humankind gave people of your gender the woman moniker as it needed to have a title with which to refer to your gender hence woman.

Its a few letters or a slight change to your vocabulary which is hardly difficult to do.

You would expect and hope for others to change how they referred to you if you were to become disabled so why the resistance instead of acceptance?

You may want to be called a woman but I don't want to conform so you're saying it's OK then? "

It’s not a case of wanting to be known as anything I am a woman and that is how others view me however I don’t require nor need others to tell me what I am so yes feel free to refer to me as you please it’s not a problem. Everyone has the right to their own voice

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By *eeleyWoman over a year ago

Dudley

Totally agree!!! Too much pandering goes on, there’ll be another term in about 5 minutes

Would it be OK to refer to you as an It?

An it is an object, a person would loosely come under the banner as an object within some conditions you can quite correctly be referred to as It.

Is that OK with you or would you find it offensive?

P.s. no sarcasm meant at all, it is an open debate.

A person does qualify as an object as you are nothing more than collection of molecules that make up a whole that has been given the title of a human being or woman in your case.

Humankind gave people of your gender the woman moniker as it needed to have a title with which to refer to your gender hence woman.

Its a few letters or a slight change to your vocabulary which is hardly difficult to do.

You would expect and hope for others to change how they referred to you if you were to become disabled so why the resistance instead of acceptance?

You may want to be called a woman but I don't want to conform so you're saying it's OK then?

I'll be like a praying mantis when restrictions are up and I find a sexy man

Then thats how I'm going to refer to you forevermore Keeley

How offensive!

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By * Sophie xTV/TS over a year ago

Derby

Totally agree!!! Too much pandering goes on, there’ll be another term in about 5 minutes

Would it be OK to refer to you as an It?

An it is an object, a person would loosely come under the banner as an object within some conditions you can quite correctly be referred to as It.

Is that OK with you or would you find it offensive?

P.s. no sarcasm meant at all, it is an open debate.

A person does qualify as an object as you are nothing more than collection of molecules that make up a whole that has been given the title of a human being or woman in your case.

Humankind gave people of your gender the woman moniker as it needed to have a title with which to refer to your gender hence woman.

Its a few letters or a slight change to your vocabulary which is hardly difficult to do.

You would expect and hope for others to change how they referred to you if you were to become disabled so why the resistance instead of acceptance?

You may want to be called a woman but I don't want to conform so you're saying it's OK then?

And a male to female person is a woman, a non binary person is neither so they should be rightly referred to as they, as you say its not a problem and they have the same rights as anyone else to have a voice and for it to be listened to and accepted.

If you or anyone else choose not to accept what they say then you are pushing them to the sidelines as someone who's voice doesn't need to be heard and therefore making them null and void in your opinion, why is there a difference between you and them in your eyes?

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By *ophieslutTV/TS over a year ago

Central

Treat others with respect and you’ll generally be fine. If people know themselves better than others will know them, they won't need to be told, cajoled, influenced or reminded of what others think they should be.

Use open, non-gendered language. It's very simple

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Some really insightful comments on here guys. Thanks for opening the eyes of many and explaining a lot of thoughts/opinions/ideas on the subject and also opening up other lines of thought.

It’s interesting to hear what people say about it. The thing is, some subjects get pushed aside or people are too polite to ask. But I am always curious about things I don’t understand so am not afraid to ask questions. There are some really interesting points and also some that seem narrow minded. But everyone is entitled to an opinion.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I hate miss ms or Mrs when a man has 1 just Mr.

Yet forms ask this.

Why does it matter for a woman but not a man. Why is it actually important whether the woman is married or not.

But I work with public and asking how someone likes to be addressed is very acceptable

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Some really insightful comments on here guys. Thanks for opening the eyes of many and explaining a lot of thoughts/opinions/ideas on the subject and also opening up other lines of thought.

Apologies for using the term guys, someone mentioned it on here. But it’s just a force of habit.

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By *ssex_tomMan over a year ago

Chelmsford

And people wonder why Hartlepool voted for the Tories.. ?

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By * Sophie xTV/TS over a year ago

Derby

"Some really insightful comments on here guys. Thanks for opening the eyes of many and explaining a lot of thoughts/opinions/ideas on the subject and also opening up other lines of thought.

Its good to talk and debate things as nobody knows everything and often what has been accepted as the norm can change too.

100 years ago, very few would have accepted that there were more than 2 genders or sexes but through education, experience and openness, we now know that this has changed and it is gradually becoming the norm to accept that there are numerous genders.

Some will resist it as it can be very difficult to understand even for those it directly involves (it took me most of my life to work out where my place is in it all) but hopefully it will one day become normally accepted and not seen as a way to divide people.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Some really insightful comments on here guys. Thanks for opening the eyes of many and explaining a lot of thoughts/opinions/ideas on the subject and also opening up other lines of thought.

Apologies for using the term guys, someone mentioned it on here. But it’s just a force of habit.

Did you mean it offensively? Did you intend it as all-inclusive? If the answers are no and yes, in that order, then let’s be honest most right minded people knew exactly what meant and wouldn’t take the slightest offence.

There will be a small element who will claim to be offended and even label you as a bigot for using that gendered language. When all along you’ve just said exactly what millions of people have understood as a non-offensive and non-malicious for decades.

And therein lies the problem with this who debate. You are now expected to retrain yourself to adjust your language, with no tolerance given and no meeting in the middle.

You must conform or be condemned.

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By * Sophie xTV/TS over a year ago

Derby

"I hate miss ms or Mrs when a man has 1 just Mr.

Yet forms ask this.

Why does it matter for a woman but not a man. Why is it actually important whether the woman is married or not.

But I work with public and asking how someone likes to be addressed is very acceptable "

Old habits I guess and maybe someone will push hard enough for it to be changed.

I work in a massively male environment and industry yet my company is a leading champion for gender recognition and change....I'm proud of that

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I call them all fucking wankers. Even keel.

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By *ora the explorerWoman over a year ago

Paradise, Herts

"Some really insightful comments on here guys. Thanks for opening the eyes of many and explaining a lot of thoughts/opinions/ideas on the subject and also opening up other lines of thought.

Apologies for using the term guys, someone mentioned it on here. But it’s just a force of habit.

And therein lies the problem with this who debate. You are now expected to retrain yourself to adjust your language, with no tolerance given and no meeting in the middle.

You must conform or be condemned. "

I would probably use guys automatically to be honest as in referring to everyone. I’m sad he felt the need to apologise for that. I’m a bit torn with this thread as I really do see both sides.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I don't understand why the need to genderise any greeting. Some people are so extra it hurts. "Hello" works wonders.

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By *uriouscouple83Couple over a year ago

Worcester

[Removed by poster at 19/05/21 23:25:51]

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I don't understand why the need to genderise any greeting. Some people are so extra it hurts. "Hello" works wonders. "

I wonder how it works with the German language? As when I was at school, dependant on something being masculine, feminine or neuter it affected what noun or pronoun was used and on occasions what words could also be used.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I don't understand why the need to genderise any greeting. Some people are so extra it hurts. "Hello" works wonders.

Not something I care about not speaking German most of the time.

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By *naswingdressWoman over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"I don't understand why the need to genderise any greeting. Some people are so extra it hurts. "Hello" works wonders.

I gather it's a very different problem in gendered languages.

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By *andycandy88Woman over a year ago

Northolt

"Some really insightful comments on here guys. Thanks for opening the eyes of many and explaining a lot of thoughts/opinions/ideas on the subject and also opening up other lines of thought.

Apologies for using the term guys, someone mentioned it on here. But it’s just a force of habit.

And therein lies the problem with this who debate. You are now expected to retrain yourself to adjust your language, with no tolerance given and no meeting in the middle.

You must conform or be condemned.

I would probably use guys automatically to be honest as in referring to everyone. I’m sad he felt the need to apologise for that. I’m a bit torn with this thread as I really do see both sides. "

I'm the same, I automatically say hey guys, everyone or people and I get both sides of this thread.

This thread has given me a slight headache too xx

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By *aitonelMan over a year ago

Liverpool

"I just think it's nice to treat people how they want to be treated.

This is kind of it for me too. Force of habit more than anything. I'm on my way to getting old, it is going to take time to adjust, and try and remember ever single different pronoun for each individual person I meet.

If I know you, and have had time to adjust and get used to it, I will call you whatever the hell you want. If I forget, or make a mistake (because it will happen), then by all means correct me and remind me, but if you get all offended and defensive with an overreaction attitude then fuck you, I'll no longer attempt to be mindful and just refer to you as whatever my brain picks out first. Or probably just avoid future contact with you.

Same applies if we are meeting for the first time and I naturally just get it wrong by "assumption".

It is a two way street, I have seen some overactions (personally) to genuine mistakes, and if you want respect you need to allow some wiggle room. Some people just seem to act like everyone else should just know. But give me respect in my time to learn and adapt, and I'll show you the respect you deserve/earn/want.

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By *ora the explorerWoman over a year ago

Paradise, Herts

"I just think it's nice to treat people how they want to be treated.

Same applies if we are meeting for the first time and I naturally just get it wrong by "assumption".

Well said. I agree x

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I just think it's nice to treat people how they want to be treated.

Sure. Mistakes happen, that's reality. But, like, "I'm not going to do that, world's gone mad"... That I don't get. Why not treat people how they want to be treated?

Oh yes that’s just obnoxious. If someone prefers to be addressed in a certain way then I will do that but I’m not going to change to the extent of addressing everyone as they “just in case”.

No.

But, in a shop, as the example... Just drop the sir or madam.

Good afternoon, would you like assistance?

Have you found everything you're looking for?

... Not hard. Not unnatural. (In fact I'd be as weirded out by madam as sir. I'm not royalty FFS)

Haha yeah I’m not big on madam. Sir and madam are a bit outdated anyway I think. "

Not for some of us old folk, we were brought up with respect.

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman over a year ago

evesham

"I just think it's nice to treat people how they want to be treated.

Sure. Mistakes happen, that's reality. But, like, "I'm not going to do that, world's gone mad"... That I don't get. Why not treat people how they want to be treated?

Oh yes that’s just obnoxious. If someone prefers to be addressed in a certain way then I will do that but I’m not going to change to the extent of addressing everyone as they “just in case”.

No.

But, in a shop, as the example... Just drop the sir or madam.

Good afternoon, would you like assistance?

Have you found everything you're looking for?

... Not hard. Not unnatural. (In fact I'd be as weirded out by madam as sir. I'm not royalty FFS)

Haha yeah I’m not big on madam. Sir and madam are a bit outdated anyway I think.

Not for some of us old folk, we were brought up with respect.

Well that's a lie.

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By *olly_chromaticTV/TS over a year ago

Stockport

And therein lies the problem with this who debate. You are now expected to retrain yourself to adjust your language, with no tolerance given and no meeting in the middle.

You must conform or be condemned. "

And most right minded trans/non-binary/gender-fluid/etc people will know exactly what was meant and won't take the slightest offence. Offence gets taken when we come across those who deliberately and maliciously use incorrect pronouns, and continue to do so after being corrected, intending them to be exclusive and intending them to be offensive.

Millwall Kev, I assume that you identify as male? How would you feel if there was a person at your place of work that systematically referred to you as a woman? If you told them your name was Kevin, and they said "Yeah, but come on, what's your real name? I'll just call you Karen, that's easier for me." If they continually talked to others about you as she and her? If you worked in an office where you were the only man, but the manager always started team meetings with the words "Okay ladies". You were in a restaurant and the waitress came to your table and said "What can I get you girls?". And this kept happening over and over again, no matter how many times you told them you preferred Kevin/he/him. When they said to you "I don't care what you call yourself, it's my right to call you whatever I want to"... Because that is exactly what several voices on this thread have stated. It is their right to use whatever language they like to refer to a person. That "how can I possibly know what gender to call someone if I can't tell by looking?" but at the same time "it offends me all this people telling me what pronouns I'm supposed to use". And "I don't need to tell people my pronouns" but "I am offended that you keep calling me they/them"...

Anyway, nice to meet you, I'm Polly, pronouns she/her most of the time for fab purposes, but if we happened to be in a business meeting then I might just ask you to call me Paul/he/him - I might even wear a name tag to make it obvious!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I just think it's nice to treat people how they want to be treated.

Sure. Mistakes happen, that's reality. But, like, "I'm not going to do that, world's gone mad"... That I don't get. Why not treat people how they want to be treated?

Oh yes that’s just obnoxious. If someone prefers to be addressed in a certain way then I will do that but I’m not going to change to the extent of addressing everyone as they “just in case”.

No.

But, in a shop, as the example... Just drop the sir or madam.

Good afternoon, would you like assistance?

Have you found everything you're looking for?

... Not hard. Not unnatural. (In fact I'd be as weirded out by madam as sir. I'm not royalty FFS)

Haha yeah I’m not big on madam. Sir and madam are a bit outdated anyway I think.

Not for some of us old folk, we were brought up with respect.

Well that's a lie. "

Why is this a lie?

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By *olly_chromaticTV/TS over a year ago

Stockport

"I just think it's nice to treat people how they want to be treated.

Same applies if we are meeting for the first time and I naturally just get it wrong by "assumption".

Well said. I agree x"

And agreement from me also. I've also seen those over-reactions to genuine mistakes. I will defend some of them by saying that in some cases these are people that have taken so much abuse for such a long period that they just have no tolerance for it any more. But also, yes, some of them are just argumentative twats.

Polly x

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman over a year ago

evesham

"I just think it's nice to treat people how they want to be treated.

Sure. Mistakes happen, that's reality. But, like, "I'm not going to do that, world's gone mad"... That I don't get. Why not treat people how they want to be treated?

Oh yes that’s just obnoxious. If someone prefers to be addressed in a certain way then I will do that but I’m not going to change to the extent of addressing everyone as they “just in case”.

No.

But, in a shop, as the example... Just drop the sir or madam.

Good afternoon, would you like assistance?

Have you found everything you're looking for?

... Not hard. Not unnatural. (In fact I'd be as weirded out by madam as sir. I'm not royalty FFS)

Haha yeah I’m not big on madam. Sir and madam are a bit outdated anyway I think.

Not for some of us old folk, we were brought up with respect.

Well that's a lie.

Why is this a lie?"

Read his first comment on this thread.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

And therein lies the problem with this who debate. You are now expected to retrain yourself to adjust your language, with no tolerance given and no meeting in the middle.

You must conform or be condemned.

It’s a long thread and you probably haven’t seen, but I’ve said numerous times that I would respect any pronouns / manner of greeting anyone asked me to.

My point is more generic. The forced standardised use of non-gendered language across society full stop. The demonising of those who say “ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls” as a generic catch all for example.

The fact that the OP felt he (I’m assuming they identify as a ‘he’ maybe I’m a bigot for making that assumption?) had to apologise for using “guys” as a generic all-inclusive term because some would see it as a sinister slight against non-binary people for example.

I agree with what you say above

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By *ora the explorerWoman over a year ago

Paradise, Herts

"I just think it's nice to treat people how they want to be treated.

Same applies if we are meeting for the first time and I naturally just get it wrong by "assumption".

Well said. I agree x

Polly x"

You’ve spoke a lot of sense on this thread Polly and perhaps opened my eyes a bit more. It’s been interesting x

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Who really cares, you were born with a cock so you are Mr, you were born with a Pussy so you are Miss / Mrs, live with it ffs. I expect some flack but come on WTF

No. I shan't live with it. Who are you to make demands on how others see themselves? "

I have been around for a long time, so, I see someone with a beard I assume it’s a male, I see someone with lovely eyelashes a soft smile and smooth skin I assume it’s a female, what is in their head is not visible, so how am I to know or judge ?

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By *olly_chromaticTV/TS over a year ago

Stockport

"Who really cares, you were born with a cock so you are Mr, you were born with a Pussy so you are Miss / Mrs, live with it ffs. I expect some flack but come on WTF

No. I shan't live with it. Who are you to make demands on how others see themselves?

And what do you do if you see somebody with an androgynous appearance, who might be wearing non-gendered clothing? Say jeans and tee-shirt, flat chest but smooth face, short hair but earrings, mid range voice.

And for that matter, I know cis women that have got more facial hair than some men, and cis men that are well prettier than some women.

Sometimes you cannot tell, and if you think you can tell, sometimes you will be wrong.

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By *naswingdressWoman over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Who really cares, you were born with a cock so you are Mr, you were born with a Pussy so you are Miss / Mrs, live with it ffs. I expect some flack but come on WTF

No. I shan't live with it. Who are you to make demands on how others see themselves?

When I've had short hair I'm occasionally called sir. I was assigned female at birth and I identify as female now.

Mistakes happen.

It's how you move past it that matters.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple over a year ago

North West

"Who really cares, you were born with a cock so you are Mr, you were born with a Pussy so you are Miss / Mrs, live with it ffs. I expect some flack but come on WTF

No. I shan't live with it. Who are you to make demands on how others see themselves?

And for that matter, I know cis women that have got more facial hair than some men, and cis men that are well prettier than some women.

Sometimes you cannot tell, and if you think you can tell, sometimes you will be wrong."

There's a student I had a few years back and to this day, I've no idea what gender they were. Guess what? It made zero difference to me as the teacher nor to them as the student. You cannot assume gender by looking at someone.

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By * Sophie xTV/TS over a year ago

Derby

And therein lies the problem with this who debate. You are now expected to retrain yourself to adjust your language, with no tolerance given and no meeting in the middle.

You must conform or be condemned.

Just a little in awe of you today Polly

I think what you've said and how you've said it makes the most sense of anything I've read today

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Omg, seriously ?

As a member of a marginalised community yourself, talk about shooting yourself in the foot

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

And oh dear, seems to have gotten predictable worse after that. Think I’m going to stop reading here and go to bed. I am me and don’t you dare try telling me otherwise

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

01110 01111

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By *erriAnneTV/TS over a year ago

The shire

Omg, seriously ?

As a member of a marginalised community yourself, talk about shooting yourself in the foot

Not really I have no doubt about my sexuality. I'm a guy in a dress I don't identify as female. I'm male and don't force a false identity on others and describe myself as them or they or whet ever the fuck they call themselves. If I get called out as a guy in a dress so be it I don't don't try and tell them I'm non binary etc yadda yadda yadda. It's all a bit pathetic tbh. You're either male or female. There is no in between.

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By *ssex_tomMan over a year ago

Chelmsford

Omg, seriously ?

As a member of a marginalised community yourself, talk about shooting yourself in the foot

Nonsense.. there is male, there is female and then there is the French...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I'm really struggling with this at the moment.

A close family member has recently said they are none binary.

I keep slipping up with my choice of words.

Iv tried to explain that I will always support them but I'm struggling as I don't really understand it and I'm respectful of their choice of name and try to remember not to use gender specific language but iv been shut out because iv used the term a few times.

Its heartbreaking and soo hard!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I'm really struggling with this at the moment.

A close family member has recently said they are none binary.

I keep slipping up with my choice of words.

Its heartbreaking and soo hard!"

*wrong terms*

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

" You're either male or female. There is no in between"

I can’t wait to hear where you think intersex people fit

"I'm really struggling with this at the moment.

A close family member has recently said they are none binary.

I keep slipping up with my choice of words.

Its heartbreaking and soo hard!

*wrong terms*"

But it’s clear that you are trying and making an effort to consider their feelings and wishes, I’m sure I speak for many when I say that that’s all that really matters

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By *edeWoman over a year ago

the abyss

"I'm really struggling with this at the moment.

A close family member has recently said they are none binary.

I keep slipping up with my choice of words.

Its heartbreaking and soo hard!

*wrong terms*"

I completely understand this. My sibling has recently stated they are non-binary. While I was not surprised in the slightest and fully support them with all my heart - it can be very difficult to not accidentally use previous terms you have used for over 35 years!!

For the most part they are understanding but it can often depend on their mood/mental state and often feels like walking on egg shells around them

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

" You're either male or female. There is no in between

I can’t wait to hear where you think intersex people fit

I'm really struggling with this at the moment.

A close family member has recently said they are none binary.

I keep slipping up with my choice of words.

Its heartbreaking and soo hard!

*wrong terms*

But it’s clear that you are trying and making an effort to consider their feelings and wishes, I’m sure I speak for many when I say that that’s all that really matters

I'm really trying but iv been honest and explained I don't get but I'm trying.

They only told me 5 months ago and It came as a shock to me.

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By *hatawasteMan over a year ago

stafford

It's probably my age but I find it a bit bewildering.. Not saying I disagree or I'm against it in anyway.. We can all identify as whatever we like in life .Though I am really just taking notice this week really . Just seems very strange the moment and I'm finding the change in use of grammar needed e.g how to use feminine/masculine words etc properly just doesn't sit well with me. I find it all a bit like an itchy jumper.. I guess it will feel comfortable and relaxing at some point. However, it isn't just now .

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By *naswingdressWoman over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"It's probably my age but I find it a bit bewildering.. Not saying I disagree or I'm against it in anyway.. We can all identify as whatever we like in life .Though I am really just taking notice this week really . Just seems very strange the moment and I'm finding the change in use of grammar needed e.g how to use feminine/masculine words etc properly just doesn't sit well with me. I find it all a bit like an itchy jumper.. I guess it will feel comfortable and relaxing at some point. However, it isn't just now . "

I don't get it either. I just try to do the best I can.

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By *ssex_tomMan over a year ago

Chelmsford

Everyone can self identify but not keen on people choosing my identity...

I am a male.. not a cis male..

I am a male...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I don't get it either. I just try to do the best I can."

And do you know what the dirty little secret is…? It’s totally, 100% fine that people don’t get it, but as the last few posters have said you are all trying and that’s fantastic!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Everyone can self identify but not keen on people choosing my identity...

I am a male.. not a cis male..

I am a male..."

But the two are not mutually exclusive terms. It’s like saying that you’re an English male, or a brown haired male or a left hand male. None of those lessen the male part and in 99.9% of your life there is absolutely no need to add this additional information but when in conversation on transgender topics is it occasionally helpful to be able to distinguish between a trans person and a non trans person. That’s all the addition of ‘cis indicates. If you don’t need to prefix me as a transwoman then I have no need to prefix you as a cis male

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I'm really struggling with this at the moment.

A close family member has recently said they are none binary.

I keep slipping up with my choice of words.

Its heartbreaking and soo hard!

*wrong terms*

For the most part they are understanding but it can often depend on their mood/mental state and often feels like walking on egg shells around them

I feel like this with my family member. I just want them to be happy.

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By *ssex_tomMan over a year ago

Chelmsford

"Everyone can self identify but not keen on people choosing my identity...

I am a male.. not a cis male..

I am a male...

Thank you.. I am a male...

End of

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By *eeleyWoman over a year ago

Dudley

"Everyone can self identify but not keen on people choosing my identity...

I am a male.. not a cis male..

I am a male...

Why add another label though? You could just say trans and not trans.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Why are you worrying? Why not just do what you think is right, wait to be corrected by said person if they feel offended and learn by experience. You can't get everything right all of the time and that's the value of life imho

This!

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By *naswingdressWoman over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Everyone can self identify but not keen on people choosing my identity...

I am a male.. not a cis male..

I am a male...

Why add another label though? You could just say trans and not trans."

I'm not bothered, personally. I'm a cis woman. So what?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Everyone can self identify but not keen on people choosing my identity...

I am a male.. not a cis male..

I am a male...

Why add another label though? You could just say trans and not trans."

But saying not trans is in and of itself a label. Why did we need a label for trans in the first place ? All people are saying is that if you feel the need to use the trans label to distinguish someone not of the gender the were assigned at birth there must be an equal term for someone who is and that term is ‘cis.

If you don’t need to use *trans you don’t need to use *cis

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Everyone can self identify but not keen on people choosing my identity...

I am a male.. not a cis male..

I am a male...

Thank you.. I am a male...

End of "

Fair play to you as long you equally agree that I am a woman end of

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By *naswingdressWoman over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Everyone can self identify but not keen on people choosing my identity...

I am a male.. not a cis male..

I am a male...

Why add another label though? You could just say trans and not trans.

If you don’t need to use *trans you don’t need to use *cis

It feels like the labels neurodivergent and neurotypical. Neurotypicals tend to get up in arms because they're not neurotypical, they're normal.

Umm. That's saying neurodivergent people are not normal. That's kinda gross. Let's not.

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By *hocoholicWoman over a year ago

The big D

I am not gonna set out to offend ppl but I also am not gonna change how I am, I’m not walking around second guessing what I am saying. Il say hi, have a good day, good morning, nice to meet u etc all d normal things, if d 1st thing out of their mouth is to tell me how they want to be adddressed, it won’t be an issue cause il just walk away. If we chat & then names get exchanged then I will of course address them how they want to be called.

It should be an easy simple exchange of words, any bigger deal then it’s all abt them & I couldn’t be bothered with d drama.

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By *eeleyWoman over a year ago

Dudley

"Everyone can self identify but not keen on people choosing my identity...

I am a male.. not a cis male..

I am a male...

Why add another label though? You could just say trans and not trans.

If you don’t need to use *trans you don’t need to use *cis

I feel that adding more labels to an already complicated situation is just adding more confusion.

And this might throw a cat among the pigeons but I don't like the term 'assigned at birth'.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I don’t know

My daughter has discussed the fact she feels like she’s NB and I’m not 100% sure how it changes anything about a person? Other than how others are meant to address them?

That said, I have adopted using “they/them” over the last couple of years anyway as a route to avoid any awkwardness

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I think we’re avoiding the real issue here : Can non-binary people squirt, and if so is it still really just wee?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Everyone can self identify but not keen on people choosing my identity...

I am a male.. not a cis male..

I am a male...

Why add another label though? You could just say trans and not trans.

If you don’t need to use *trans you don’t need to use *cis

I feel that adding more labels to an already complicated situation is just adding more confusion.

And this might throw a cat among the pigeons but I don't like the term 'assigned at birth'. "

That’s great and good for you, if we can get rid of all those labels then so much the better imho but as long as a term exists for one thing another term must exist for the absence of that thing. You can’t have day and “not day” you can’t have up and “not up”. Let’s get rid of them all.

And fair play, assigned at birth is not a particular favourite of mine either but it seems to have gained traction to describe the concept

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I don’t know

My daughter has discussed the fact she feels like she’s NB and I’m not 100% sure how it changes anything about a person? Other than how others are meant to address them?

That said, I have adopted using “they/them” over the last couple of years anyway as a route to avoid any awkwardness"

Good for you and you’re right it shouldn’t change anything about that person at all just about the things you can do to help them feel more comfortable in the world and show you care by thinking of their feelings, kudos to you

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By * Sophie xTV/TS over a year ago

Derby

"Everyone can self identify but not keen on people choosing my identity...

I am a male.. not a cis male..

I am a male...

Why add another label though? You could just say trans and not trans.

If you don’t need to use *trans you don’t need to use *cis

I feel that adding more labels to an already complicated situation is just adding more confusion.

And this might throw a cat among the pigeons but I don't like the term 'assigned at birth'. "

Its really simple, nobody would refer to you as a cis woman unless the conversation was regarding gender and involving a trans woman.

It would be used to say that you are a woman from birth hence cis woman.

A person not a woman from birth would be a trans woman.

In normal conversation neither should be referred to as either cis or trans so it shouldn't be an issue at all in those circumstances.

Its about respecting the diversity of gender and the person and not forcing a change of vocabulary.

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By *eeleyWoman over a year ago

Dudley

"Everyone can self identify but not keen on people choosing my identity...

I am a male.. not a cis male..

I am a male...

Why add another label though? You could just say trans and not trans.

If you don’t need to use *trans you don’t need to use *cis

I feel that adding more labels to an already complicated situation is just adding more confusion.

And this might throw a cat among the pigeons but I don't like the term 'assigned at birth'.

And fair play, assigned at birth is not a particular favourite of mine either but it seems to have gained traction to describe the concept"

There were already terms for people who aren't trans.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Everyone can self identify but not keen on people choosing my identity...

I am a male.. not a cis male..

I am a male...

Why add another label though? You could just say trans and not trans.

If you don’t need to use *trans you don’t need to use *cis

I feel that adding more labels to an already complicated situation is just adding more confusion.

And this might throw a cat among the pigeons but I don't like the term 'assigned at birth'.

And fair play, assigned at birth is not a particular favourite of mine either but it seems to have gained traction to describe the concept

There were already terms for people who aren't trans. "

Would you care to share your personal favourite for that ?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I don’t know

My daughter has discussed the fact she feels like she’s NB and I’m not 100% sure how it changes anything about a person? Other than how others are meant to address them?

That said, I have adopted using “they/them” over the last couple of years anyway as a route to avoid any awkwardness

Although, notice I said “she” about 12 times while referring to her (there it is again) I just think “them” is so impersonal when referring to your own child,

But I’m trying

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I don’t know

My daughter has discussed the fact she feels like she’s NB and I’m not 100% sure how it changes anything about a person? Other than how others are meant to address them?

That said, I have adopted using “they/them” over the last couple of years anyway as a route to avoid any awkwardness

Although, notice I said “she” about 12 times while referring to her (there it is again) I just think “them” is so impersonal when referring to your own child,

But I’m trying "

That’s to be expected though and you’re trying your best, that’s all that matters and I’m sure they appreciate they effort.

I know my own parents have the same trouble sometimes, they try their best and I know they accept me for who I am and I accept that they may sometimes get it wrong. Don’t give your self a hard time for it x

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By *eeleyWoman over a year ago

Dudley

"Everyone can self identify but not keen on people choosing my identity...

I am a male.. not a cis male..

I am a male...

Why add another label though? You could just say trans and not trans.

If you don’t need to use *trans you don’t need to use *cis

I feel that adding more labels to an already complicated situation is just adding more confusion.

And this might throw a cat among the pigeons but I don't like the term 'assigned at birth'.

And fair play, assigned at birth is not a particular favourite of mine either but it seems to have gained traction to describe the concept

There were already terms for people who aren't trans.

Would you care to share your personal favourite for that ? "

Yes, there was woman and man.

I'm not trying to start an argument, I just genuinely don't understand the need for some many labels, especially since people often say they don't like labels.

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By *olly_chromaticTV/TS over a year ago

Stockport

"Everyone can self identify but not keen on people choosing my identity...

I am a male.. not a cis male..

I am a male...

Why add another label though? You could just say trans and not trans."

For the same reason that we have other words for opposites.

We don't say left and not-left, we say left and right.

We don't say down and not-down, we say down and up.

We don't say in and not-in, we say in and out.

And in fact cis and trans are just another couple of direction words, they just happen to be of latin origin. Cis means "on the same side", trans means "on the opposite side".

Some say that we should just use "transgender woman" and "normal woman" - try going into a gay bar and loudly stating that some people are homosexual and some people are normal...

The only reason that somebody could have to be offended at being termed cisgender, would be if they were in fact transgender.

And as has been said many times already on this thread, the only time that anybody has to use the terms cisgender, cis male, cis female, is when there is a need to unequivocally inform that the person being discussed identifies as the same gender they were labelled as by a doctor at birth, is happy to dress according to the stereotypes associated with that gender, does not use hormone therapy that might affect secondary sexual characteristics, has not and does not want surgery to modify their body's primary sexual characteristics etc.

Basically, until someone wants to discuss the past and present contents of your knickers, there is no need to ever label anybody as cisgender or transgender.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I don’t know

My daughter has discussed the fact she feels like she’s NB and I’m not 100% sure how it changes anything about a person? Other than how others are meant to address them?

That said, I have adopted using “they/them” over the last couple of years anyway as a route to avoid any awkwardness

Although, notice I said “she” about 12 times while referring to her (there it is again) I just think “them” is so impersonal when referring to your own child,

But I’m trying

That’s to be expected though and you’re trying your best, that’s all that matters and I’m sure they appreciate they effort.

Thank you.

To be fair she came out as bi then gay then this and I really don’t care, I love her no matter her preferences and always will.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I don’t know

My daughter has discussed the fact she feels like she’s NB and I’m not 100% sure how it changes anything about a person? Other than how others are meant to address them?

That said, I have adopted using “they/them” over the last couple of years anyway as a route to avoid any awkwardness

Although, notice I said “she” about 12 times while referring to her (there it is again) I just think “them” is so impersonal when referring to your own child,

But I’m trying "

We are in the same boat.

Thats exactly how I feel when referring to my relative (even struggling with that) as it feels impersonal and like you im trying.

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By *stellaWoman over a year ago

London

"Everyone can self identify but not keen on people choosing my identity...

I am a male.. not a cis male..

I am a male...

Why add another label though? You could just say trans and not trans.

For the same reason that we have other words for opposites.

We don't say left and not-left, we say left and right.

We don't say down and not-down, we say down and up.

We don't say in and not-in, we say in and out.

And in fact cis and trans are just another couple of direction words, they just happen to be of latin origin. Cis means "on the same side", trans means "on the opposite side".

Some say that we should just use "transgender woman" and "normal woman" - try going into a gay bar and loudly stating that some people are homosexual and some people are normal...

The only reason that somebody could have to be offended at being termed cisgender, would be if they were in fact transgender.

Basically, until someone wants to discuss the past and present contents of your knickers, there is no need to ever label anybody as cisgender or transgender."

Well said.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I don’t know

My daughter has discussed the fact she feels like she’s NB and I’m not 100% sure how it changes anything about a person? Other than how others are meant to address them?

That said, I have adopted using “they/them” over the last couple of years anyway as a route to avoid any awkwardness

Although, notice I said “she” about 12 times while referring to her (there it is again) I just think “them” is so impersonal when referring to your own child,

But I’m trying

That’s to be expected though and you’re trying your best, that’s all that matters and I’m sure they appreciate they effort.

Thank you.

To be fair she came out as bi then gay then this and I really don’t care, I love her no matter her preferences and always will.

This is exactly how its been in our family situation too.

I'm totally ok with who they and what they identify as but unfortunately they are very passionate about me using the terms they have chosen.

It makes me feel uncomfortable for the reason I explained earlier but I'm trying but it doesn't seem good enough.

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By * Sophie xTV/TS over a year ago

Derby

"I don’t know

My daughter has discussed the fact she feels like she’s NB and I’m not 100% sure how it changes anything about a person? Other than how others are meant to address them?

That said, I have adopted using “they/them” over the last couple of years anyway as a route to avoid any awkwardness

Although, notice I said “she” about 12 times while referring to her (there it is again) I just think “them” is so impersonal when referring to your own child,

But I’m trying "

I'm sure they appreciate that you are trying and the same goes for anyone who is learning to deal with the changes.

I've had to get my head around it and still get it wrong from time to time and I'm in part way on this trans spectrum although not to the stage that Jaime and others are at. I have my own story of my background too that brings me to where I found I am happy.

Its a learning process and one that helps to integrate marginised people in society that are just trying to live their lives and as long as we can all accept that things need to change and mistakes will be made along the way that we can talk about openly then that can only be a good thing. To doggedly deny that it shouldn't change is a problem just as jumping down the throat of anyone who makes a genuine mistake of mis-gendering someone is a problem.

Acceptance that change can and should happen is all anyone wants.

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By *naswingdressWoman over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"I don’t know

My daughter has discussed the fact she feels like she’s NB and I’m not 100% sure how it changes anything about a person? Other than how others are meant to address them?

That said, I have adopted using “they/them” over the last couple of years anyway as a route to avoid any awkwardness

Although, notice I said “she” about 12 times while referring to her (there it is again) I just think “them” is so impersonal when referring to your own child,

But I’m trying

I'm sure they appreciate that you are trying and the same goes for anyone who is learning to deal with the changes.

Acceptance that change can and should happen is all anyone wants."

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By *eeleyWoman over a year ago

Dudley

[Removed by poster at 20/05/21 23:29:56]

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By *olly_chromaticTV/TS over a year ago

Stockport

"I don’t know

My daughter has discussed the fact she feels like she’s NB and I’m not 100% sure how it changes anything about a person? Other than how others are meant to address them?

That said, I have adopted using “they/them” over the last couple of years anyway as a route to avoid any awkwardness

Although, notice I said “she” about 12 times while referring to her (there it is again) I just think “them” is so impersonal when referring to your own child,

But I’m trying

That’s to be expected though and you’re trying your best, that’s all that matters and I’m sure they appreciate they effort.

Thank you.

To be fair she came out as bi then gay then this and I really don’t care, I love her no matter her preferences and always will.

This is exactly how its been in our family situation too.

I'm totally ok with who they and what they identify as but unfortunately they are very passionate about me using the terms they have chosen.

It makes me feel uncomfortable for the reason I explained earlier but I'm trying but it doesn't seem good enough. "

You're trying Lorna, that's the main thing. It doesn't always come naturally to us old fogeys, I've made my fair share of foot in mouth moments! It's easier for the young ones as they've grown up with this; make no mistake though, in 20 years time there will be another shift in language, and today's young ones will be the older ones saying "these young people today, I don't know what they're talking about half the time, in my day it was perfectly easy being enby and ace and bi-gen, just what the fuck do meta-gen or neuro-cyber mean?".

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