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Freedom is a right, not a privilege.
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"How are we defining freedom here Shag?" I would say that you can almost do whatever you want within reason, for example, everyday activities, like going out, doing the shopping and so on, like compared to a dictatorship where ones freedom is restricted. | |||
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"How are we defining freedom here Shag?I would say that you can almost do whatever you want within reason, for example, everyday activities, like going out, doing the shopping and so on, like compared to a dictatorship where ones freedom is restricted." Even in dictatorships you can go about normal everyday activities, they still need to work and eat. The freedoms that are restricted in dictatorships tend to be about criticising governments/leaders or where you fall into a political/social/ethnic group that is being persecuted. | |||
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"In today's COVID world it seems to be the opposite." Yes, it seems to be opposite with covid too. | |||
"How are we defining freedom here Shag?I would say that you can almost do whatever you want within reason, for example, everyday activities, like going out, doing the shopping and so on, like compared to a dictatorship where ones freedom is restricted. Even in dictatorships you can go about normal everyday activities, they still need to work and eat. The freedoms that are restricted in dictatorships tend to be about criticising governments/leaders or where you fall into a political/social/ethnic group that is being persecuted." I read an interesting thing about it of someone who is from such a regime and they wondered why they most of the time start by banning people from travelling? | |||
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"How are we defining freedom here Shag?" For that matter how are we defining a right and also a privelage.? And are there any consequences or responsibilities with such absolute freedoms? Am I free to crap in the high street? Drive my car into a busy protest? Set fire to the trees? Walk naked at lunch times? Call people offensive names? | |||
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"How are we defining freedom here Shag? For that matter how are we defining a right and also a privelage.? And are there any consequences or responsibilities with such absolute freedoms? Am I free to crap in the high street? Drive my car into a busy protest? Set fire to the trees? Walk naked at lunch times? Call people offensive names? " I don't have the answers. I think freedom for most of us is a state of mind. | |||
"How are we defining freedom here Shag? For that matter how are we defining a right and also a privelage.? And are there any consequences or responsibilities with such absolute freedoms? Am I free to crap in the high street? Drive my car into a busy protest? Set fire to the trees? Walk naked at lunch times? Call people offensive names? I don't have the answers. I think freedom for most of us is a state of mind." I think its a negotiation with your community and society you choose to accept the benefits of living in. The notion of freedom... To me is an interesting existential type debate with no right answers at the end. Whenever I hear this debate... That scene from life of Brian always pops into my head... Don't you oppress me.... I want to have babies. | |||
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"I disagree. Especially if you look on a world stage. We have freedom with responsibility, we have freedom ‘but’... It’s nice to think of it as a right but the freedoms that we have were given to us by previous generations and by those in power and our personal freedoms are slowly being eroded from us. They can be taken away at any time. We’re very lucky in living when we do, where we do, that is a privilege. A nice sentiment but nothing more than a meme I’m afraid " What freedoms do you think are slowly being eroded from us? And what impact has it had on you / yours? | |||
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"I disagree. Especially if you look on a world stage. We have freedom with responsibility, we have freedom ‘but’... It’s nice to think of it as a right but the freedoms that we have were given to us by previous generations and by those in power and our personal freedoms are slowly being eroded from us. They can be taken away at any time. We’re very lucky in living when we do, where we do, that is a privilege. A nice sentiment but nothing more than a meme I’m afraid What freedoms do you think are slowly being eroded from us? And what impact has it had on you / yours? " Lots of people are losing their jobs/being jailed for expressing unapproved views | |||
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"I disagree. Especially if you look on a world stage. We have freedom with responsibility, we have freedom ‘but’... It’s nice to think of it as a right but the freedoms that we have were given to us by previous generations and by those in power and our personal freedoms are slowly being eroded from us. They can be taken away at any time. We’re very lucky in living when we do, where we do, that is a privilege. A nice sentiment but nothing more than a meme I’m afraid What freedoms do you think are slowly being eroded from us? And what impact has it had on you / yours? " Does it need to have a direct impact on me or mine in order to be pertinent? Look at society as a whole. People aren’t free to express and learn from opinions. Old thoughts that were expressed in nativity are being used out of context to preclude jobs, advancement or careers. People are being tried in the court of public opinion long before the judicial process. Tech firms hold all of our information, where we are and who we’re with, cameras monitor us hourly... | |||
"I disagree. Especially if you look on a world stage. We have freedom with responsibility, we have freedom ‘but’... It’s nice to think of it as a right but the freedoms that we have were given to us by previous generations and by those in power and our personal freedoms are slowly being eroded from us. They can be taken away at any time. We’re very lucky in living when we do, where we do, that is a privilege. A nice sentiment but nothing more than a meme I’m afraid What freedoms do you think are slowly being eroded from us? And what impact has it had on you / yours? Lots of people are losing their jobs/being jailed for expressing unapproved views" I haven't seen anyone losing a job or being jailed for expressing an unapproved view. Could you enlighten me with some of the examples? | |||
"I disagree. Especially if you look on a world stage. We have freedom with responsibility, we have freedom ‘but’... It’s nice to think of it as a right but the freedoms that we have were given to us by previous generations and by those in power and our personal freedoms are slowly being eroded from us. They can be taken away at any time. We’re very lucky in living when we do, where we do, that is a privilege. A nice sentiment but nothing more than a meme I’m afraid What freedoms do you think are slowly being eroded from us? And what impact has it had on you / yours? Does it need to have a direct impact on me or mine in order to be pertinent? Look at society as a whole. People aren’t free to express and learn from opinions. Old thoughts that were expressed in nativity are being used out of context to preclude jobs, advancement or careers. People are being tried in the court of public opinion long before the judicial process. Tech firms hold all of our information, where we are and who we’re with, cameras monitor us hourly... " It's a good debate. So the fact that tech firms garner and hold our data... How does that impact upon anyone's freedoms? Or cause freedoms to be slowly eroded? | |||
"Freedom isn't a thing that is given to our rulers which they can then give to us as a gift. A gift can be taken away. We should be telling our rulers what to do. Not vice-versa" But if we are giving the orders then surely we are the rulers? | |||
"How are we defining freedom here Shag?I would say that you can almost do whatever you want within reason, for example, everyday activities, like going out, doing the shopping and so on, like compared to a dictatorship where ones freedom is restricted. Even in dictatorships you can go about normal everyday activities, they still need to work and eat. The freedoms that are restricted in dictatorships tend to be about criticising governments/leaders or where you fall into a political/social/ethnic group that is being persecuted.I read an interesting thing about it of someone who is from such a regime and they wondered why they most of the time start by banning people from travelling?" A good example was ddr of how they controlled their sitizens by not allowing them to visit their families on the other side and also how stasi had a mass surveillance operation. | |||
"Freedom isn't a thing that is given to our rulers which they can then give to us as a gift. A gift can be taken away. We should be telling our rulers what to do. Not vice-versa But if we are giving the orders then surely we are the rulers? " Yes, we are the rulers. Those powers are under threat and we are generally very careless in defending them | |||
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"Freedom isn't a thing that is given to our rulers which they can then give to us as a gift. A gift can be taken away. We should be telling our rulers what to do. Not vice-versa But if we are giving the orders then surely we are the rulers? Yes, we are the rulers. Those powers are under threat and we are generally very careless in defending them" I think we are careless in having even the most basic Understanding of them and our role and responsibility in a "free" society before we even get to appreciating, nurturing and defending them. | |||
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"I disagree. Especially if you look on a world stage. We have freedom with responsibility, we have freedom ‘but’... It’s nice to think of it as a right but the freedoms that we have were given to us by previous generations and by those in power and our personal freedoms are slowly being eroded from us. They can be taken away at any time. We’re very lucky in living when we do, where we do, that is a privilege. A nice sentiment but nothing more than a meme I’m afraid What freedoms do you think are slowly being eroded from us? And what impact has it had on you / yours? Does it need to have a direct impact on me or mine in order to be pertinent? Look at society as a whole. People aren’t free to express and learn from opinions. Old thoughts that were expressed in nativity are being used out of context to preclude jobs, advancement or careers. People are being tried in the court of public opinion long before the judicial process. Tech firms hold all of our information, where we are and who we’re with, cameras monitor us hourly... It's a good debate. So the fact that tech firms garner and hold our data... How does that impact upon anyone's freedoms? Or cause freedoms to be slowly eroded? " I’m going to switch this around, how does being watched, tracked and traced not impinge on personal freedoms? | |||
"i would say all rights come with responsibilities , otherwise chances are you would infringe on someone else’s rights i would also say people seem to mistake complying with responsibility as a loss of freedom " I would say that it’s not a case of freedom, it’s that we’re more free than others. Responsibility still prevents freedoms | |||
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"I saw this quote and I liked it, what do you think of it? Is it true? I would say that in most cases it is, very inspirational and a powerful quote "Tbh It's trite Meaningless woke Liberal happy clappy nonsense Harrumph | |||
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"I saw this quote and I liked it, what do you think of it? Is it true? I would say that in most cases it is, very inspirational and a powerful quote "Oh yeah, it’s certainly up there with Live Laugh Love. | |||
"I disagree. Especially if you look on a world stage. We have freedom with responsibility, we have freedom ‘but’... It’s nice to think of it as a right but the freedoms that we have were given to us by previous generations and by those in power and our personal freedoms are slowly being eroded from us. They can be taken away at any time. We’re very lucky in living when we do, where we do, that is a privilege. A nice sentiment but nothing more than a meme I’m afraid What freedoms do you think are slowly being eroded from us? And what impact has it had on you / yours? Does it need to have a direct impact on me or mine in order to be pertinent? Look at society as a whole. People aren’t free to express and learn from opinions. Old thoughts that were expressed in nativity are being used out of context to preclude jobs, advancement or careers. People are being tried in the court of public opinion long before the judicial process. Tech firms hold all of our information, where we are and who we’re with, cameras monitor us hourly... It's a good debate. So the fact that tech firms garner and hold our data... How does that impact upon anyone's freedoms? Or cause freedoms to be slowly eroded? I’m going to switch this around, how does being watched, tracked and traced not impinge on personal freedoms? " You haven't answered my question there chap. I think many people believe the hype that because we need for example a passport to control safe travel... Our freedom is being eroded. I don't believe it is... I believe it provides for my/our safety... That allows me further freedoms that I would not have if a terrorist as an example were on the plane. The fact somebody monitors whta I buy and where does not detract from my freedom to purchase what I want and where or to eat what I want and where and with whom. It just leaves a footprint.... I say and so what? Now would you please explain why you feel tech footprints inherently erode our freedoms.? | |||
"i would say all rights come with responsibilities , otherwise chances are you would infringe on someone else’s rights i would also say people seem to mistake complying with responsibility as a loss of freedom " Agreed. I think freedom is unattainable without the majority complying with responsibility to each other. | |||
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"How are we defining freedom here Shag?I would say that you can almost do whatever you want within reason, for example, everyday activities, like going out, doing the shopping and so on, like compared to a dictatorship where ones freedom is restricted." It certainly has been on gun ownership, I think we need more freedom regarding that area. | |||
"How are we defining freedom here Shag?I would say that you can almost do whatever you want within reason, for example, everyday activities, like going out, doing the shopping and so on, like compared to a dictatorship where ones freedom is restricted. It certainly has been on gun ownership, I think we need more freedom regarding that area." I rather enjoy my freedom from guns. | |||
"How are we defining freedom here Shag?I would say that you can almost do whatever you want within reason, for example, everyday activities, like going out, doing the shopping and so on, like compared to a dictatorship where ones freedom is restricted. It certainly has been on gun ownership, I think we need more freedom regarding that area. I rather enjoy my freedom from guns." Great example... So is that freedom a right or a privelage or neither....? Just a convention our society has agreed upon for the general good? | |||
"How are we defining freedom here Shag?I would say that you can almost do whatever you want within reason, for example, everyday activities, like going out, doing the shopping and so on, like compared to a dictatorship where ones freedom is restricted. It certainly has been on gun ownership, I think we need more freedom regarding that area. I rather enjoy my freedom from guns. Great example... So is that freedom a right or a privelage or neither....? Just a convention our society has agreed upon for the general good? " I think freedom is a moveable feast tbh. It'll depend on what you - or society - values and upholds. I obviously don't think private gun ownership falls within the definition of freedom, although accept others do. I also think that freedom from communicable disease is more important than freedom to refuse vaccination. | |||
"How are we defining freedom here Shag?I would say that you can almost do whatever you want within reason, for example, everyday activities, like going out, doing the shopping and so on, like compared to a dictatorship where ones freedom is restricted. It certainly has been on gun ownership, I think we need more freedom regarding that area. I rather enjoy my freedom from guns. Great example... So is that freedom a right or a privelage or neither....? Just a convention our society has agreed upon for the general good? I think freedom is a moveable feast tbh. It'll depend on what you - or society - values and upholds. I obviously don't think private gun ownership falls within the definition of freedom, although accept others do. I also think that freedom from communicable disease is more important than freedom to refuse vaccination." Nice segue... Meanwhile on the other thread you can see repeats of "covid vaccine.. To be or not to be" | |||
"How are we defining freedom here Shag?I would say that you can almost do whatever you want within reason, for example, everyday activities, like going out, doing the shopping and so on, like compared to a dictatorship where ones freedom is restricted. It certainly has been on gun ownership, I think we need more freedom regarding that area. I rather enjoy my freedom from guns. Great example... So is that freedom a right or a privelage or neither....? Just a convention our society has agreed upon for the general good? I think freedom is a moveable feast tbh. It'll depend on what you - or society - values and upholds. I obviously don't think private gun ownership falls within the definition of freedom, although accept others do. I also think that freedom from communicable disease is more important than freedom to refuse vaccination. Nice segue... Meanwhile on the other thread you can see repeats of "covid vaccine.. To be or not to be" " I think it's the main "freedom" question of the moment. We're so free from these diseases that people forget how that came to be - we all, or mostly, stood up to protect each other. Or offered our arms. Lol | |||
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"How are we defining freedom here Shag?I would say that you can almost do whatever you want within reason, for example, everyday activities, like going out, doing the shopping and so on, like compared to a dictatorship where ones freedom is restricted. It certainly has been on gun ownership, I think we need more freedom regarding that area. I rather enjoy my freedom from guns. Great example... So is that freedom a right or a privelage or neither....? Just a convention our society has agreed upon for the general good? I think freedom is a moveable feast tbh. It'll depend on what you - or society - values and upholds. I obviously don't think private gun ownership falls within the definition of freedom, although accept others do. I also think that freedom from communicable disease is more important than freedom to refuse vaccination. Nice segue... Meanwhile on the other thread you can see repeats of "covid vaccine.. To be or not to be" I think it's the main "freedom" question of the moment. We're so free from these diseases that people forget how that came to be - we all, or mostly, stood up to protect each other. Or offered our arms. Lol" Like the Iran / contras | |||
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"How are we defining freedom here Shag?I would say that you can almost do whatever you want within reason, for example, everyday activities, like going out, doing the shopping and so on, like compared to a dictatorship where ones freedom is restricted." Within reason ? Then we are not free. | |||
"I suppose freedom is a privilege of sorts though, isn't it? Freedom is granted to those who use it to uphold the law, but is taken away from those who don't. Therefore it's always conditional. Perhaps freedom within the law is a better thing to say is a right. " It's a great debate and worth proper thought. I think the issue some are having is that laws change... Therefore "freedoms" may change... Its a complex continuum and worthy of more than simply... "Wake up they are stealing your freedom". | |||
"I suppose freedom is a privilege of sorts though, isn't it? Freedom is granted to those who use it to uphold the law, but is taken away from those who don't. Therefore it's always conditional. Perhaps freedom within the law is a better thing to say is a right. It's a great debate and worth proper thought. I think the issue some are having is that laws change... Therefore "freedoms" may change... Its a complex continuum and worthy of more than simply... "Wake up they are stealing your freedom"." It's an incredibly complex set of questions - what freedom is, who is free, how it might be limited, where it comes from, how it's upheld. And it's turned into soundbites | |||
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"no ones been free of gravity on this planet, oxygen is holding us hostage and greed has consumed many...... "Err gravity, oxygen & even birth & death are forces of nature, beyond human control. Manipulated, mitigated or copied by humans is different subject and not totally controllable, never was. Greed is a choice, no one makes anyone greedy but self. | |||
"Nobody has really been free since borders became a thing. " The book / coffee shop emporium? | |||
"How are we defining freedom here Shag?I would say that you can almost do whatever you want within reason, for example, everyday activities, like going out, doing the shopping and so on, like compared to a dictatorship where ones freedom is restricted. It certainly has been on gun ownership, I think we need more freedom regarding that area. I rather enjoy my freedom from guns." Then you are taking away someone else freedom to own guns, so where is the middle ground. Like most things, you please everyone all the time. | |||
"How are we defining freedom here Shag?I would say that you can almost do whatever you want within reason, for example, everyday activities, like going out, doing the shopping and so on, like compared to a dictatorship where ones freedom is restricted. It certainly has been on gun ownership, I think we need more freedom regarding that area. I rather enjoy my freedom from guns. Great example... So is that freedom a right or a privelage or neither....? Just a convention our society has agreed upon for the general good? " I'm sure there is a court ruling that firearms ownership in the UK is a privilege, not a right. Although I'm struggling to find it right now.. | |||
"How are we defining freedom here Shag?I would say that you can almost do whatever you want within reason, for example, everyday activities, like going out, doing the shopping and so on, like compared to a dictatorship where ones freedom is restricted. It certainly has been on gun ownership, I think we need more freedom regarding that area. I rather enjoy my freedom from guns. Then you are taking away someone else freedom to own guns, so where is the middle ground. Like most things, you please everyone all the time." I'm aware. I don't think there's a right answer, only a series of compromises. We all need to work together to find solutions. | |||
"How are we defining freedom here Shag?I would say that you can almost do whatever you want within reason, for example, everyday activities, like going out, doing the shopping and so on, like compared to a dictatorship where ones freedom is restricted. It certainly has been on gun ownership, I think we need more freedom regarding that area. I rather enjoy my freedom from guns. Great example... So is that freedom a right or a privelage or neither....? Just a convention our society has agreed upon for the general good? I'm sure there is a court ruling that firearms ownership in the UK is a privilege, not a right. Although I'm struggling to find it right now.." Do courts define freedoms, or are they more fundamental/innate? | |||
"no ones been free of gravity on this planet, oxygen is holding us hostage and greed has consumed many......
Err gravity, oxygen & even birth & death are forces of nature, beyond human control. Manipulated, mitigated or copied by humans is different subject and not totally controllable, never was.
Greed is a choice, no one makes anyone greedy but self."So the op is only on about man made freedom? You know that?..... how very narrow minded, you are hostage to your limited vision.... can I free you? Or will your pride hold you prisoner.... ? | |||
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"I saw this quote and I liked it, what do you think of it? Is it true? I would say that in most cases it is, very inspirational and a powerful quote "Describe freedom,how do you define freedom? Tp freedom is a very different thing towhat the protestors think. To some freedom might be the right to kill if you want to,maybe beat up oap's the word freedom needs to be defined | |||
"How about the incarnation we can impose on ourselves, trapped I'm our own thinking, which can be the worst type of incarnation, being trapped in self, and seeing a pattern if thinking that leads to other things, thete us levels to freedom... Socially constructed freedoms, the freedoms, that working gives despite having responsibility with in that... Freedom doesn't come free, then the age old questions are we ever truly free " You've just blown so many minds lol | |||
"How about the incarnation we can impose on ourselves, trapped I'm our own thinking, which can be the worst type of incarnation, being trapped in self, and seeing a pattern if thinking that leads to other things, thete us levels to freedom... Socially constructed freedoms, the freedoms, that working gives despite having responsibility with in that... Freedom doesn't come free, then the age old questions are we ever truly free You've just blown so many minds lol" Trapped in thinking lol. | |||
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"How about the incarnation we can impose on ourselves, trapped I'm our own thinking, which can be the worst type of incarnation, being trapped in self, and seeing a pattern if thinking that leads to other things, thete us levels to freedom... Socially constructed freedoms, the freedoms, that working gives despite having responsibility with in that... Freedom doesn't come free, then the age old questions are we ever truly free You've just blown so many minds lol Trapped in thinking lol." I have thoughts, but I am not my thoughts, I have feelings but I am not my feelings, I have a body but I am not my body, I have a mind but I am not my mind, I have personhood but I am not a person. I am but I am not this or that. Our gilded cage is our illusion. A beautiful lie. | |||
"How about the incarnation we can impose on ourselves, trapped I'm our own thinking, which can be the worst type of incarnation, being trapped in self, and seeing a pattern if thinking that leads to other things, thete us levels to freedom... Socially constructed freedoms, the freedoms, that working gives despite having responsibility with in that... Freedom doesn't come free, then the age old questions are we ever truly free You've just blown so many minds lol Trapped in thinking lol. I have thoughts, but I am not my thoughts, I have feelings but I am not my feelings, I have a body but I am not my body, I have a mind but I am not my mind, I have personhood but I am not a person. I am but I am not this or that. Our gilded cage is our illusion. A beautiful lie. " Sounds a bit woo woo to me | |||
"How about the incarnation we can impose on ourselves, trapped I'm our own thinking, which can be the worst type of incarnation, being trapped in self, and seeing a pattern if thinking that leads to other things, thete us levels to freedom... Socially constructed freedoms, the freedoms, that working gives despite having responsibility with in that... Freedom doesn't come free, then the age old questions are we ever truly free You've just blown so many minds lol Trapped in thinking lol. I have thoughts, but I am not my thoughts, I have feelings but I am not my feelings, I have a body but I am not my body, I have a mind but I am not my mind, I have personhood but I am not a person. I am but I am not this or that. Our gilded cage is our illusion. A beautiful lie. Sounds a bit woo woo to me " A simple thought experiment - a little nudge - to help us to see, wherever we are, we’re already free. | |||
"How about the incarnation we can impose on ourselves, trapped I'm our own thinking, which can be the worst type of incarnation, being trapped in self, and seeing a pattern if thinking that leads to other things, thete us levels to freedom... Socially constructed freedoms, the freedoms, that working gives despite having responsibility with in that... Freedom doesn't come free, then the age old questions are we ever truly free You've just blown so many minds lol Trapped in thinking lol. I have thoughts, but I am not my thoughts, I have feelings but I am not my feelings, I have a body but I am not my body, I have a mind but I am not my mind, I have personhood but I am not a person. I am but I am not this or that. Our gilded cage is our illusion. A beautiful lie. Sounds a bit woo woo to me A simple thought experiment - a little nudge - to help us to see, wherever we are, we’re already free." Explain true freedom to me then, As I've been trapped, however I'm free from that, but still not truly free to do what I want to really do, as there are consequences to that. So am I free or constrained for the greater good | |||
"How about the incarnation we can impose on ourselves, trapped I'm our own thinking, which can be the worst type of incarnation, being trapped in self, and seeing a pattern if thinking that leads to other things, thete us levels to freedom... Socially constructed freedoms, the freedoms, that working gives despite having responsibility with in that... Freedom doesn't come free, then the age old questions are we ever truly free You've just blown so many minds lol Trapped in thinking lol. I have thoughts, but I am not my thoughts, I have feelings but I am not my feelings, I have a body but I am not my body, I have a mind but I am not my mind, I have personhood but I am not a person. I am but I am not this or that. Our gilded cage is our illusion. A beautiful lie. Sounds a bit woo woo to me A simple thought experiment - a little nudge - to help us to see, wherever we are, we’re already free. Explain true freedom to me then, As I've been trapped, however I'm free from that, but still not truly free to do what I want to really do, as there are consequences to that. So am I free or constrained for the greater good " Sartre would say we are always radically free, because we can choose to do or not to do. However we are not a human doing. We can choose to be present in the stillness of the eternal timeless now and witness whatever arises. When we simply are, we are free. | |||
"How about the incarnation we can impose on ourselves, trapped I'm our own thinking, which can be the worst type of incarnation, being trapped in self, and seeing a pattern if thinking that leads to other things, thete us levels to freedom... Socially constructed freedoms, the freedoms, that working gives despite having responsibility with in that... Freedom doesn't come free, then the age old questions are we ever truly free You've just blown so many minds lol Trapped in thinking lol. I have thoughts, but I am not my thoughts, I have feelings but I am not my feelings, I have a body but I am not my body, I have a mind but I am not my mind, I have personhood but I am not a person. I am but I am not this or that. Our gilded cage is our illusion. A beautiful lie. Sounds a bit woo woo to me A simple thought experiment - a little nudge - to help us to see, wherever we are, we’re already free. Explain true freedom to me then, As I've been trapped, however I'm free from that, but still not truly free to do what I want to really do, as there are consequences to that. So am I free or constrained for the greater good Sartre would say we are always radically free, because we can choose to do or not to do. However we are not a human doing. We can choose to be present in the stillness of the eternal timeless now and witness whatever arises. When we simply are, we are free. " Very idealistic notion | |||
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"no ones been free of gravity on this planet, oxygen is holding us hostage and greed has consumed many......
Err gravity, oxygen & even birth & death are forces of nature, beyond human control. Manipulated, mitigated or copied by humans is different subject and not totally controllable, never was.
Greed is a choice, no one makes anyone greedy but self.
So the op is only on about man made freedom? You know that?..... how very narrow minded, you are hostage to your limited vision.... can I free you? Or will your pride hold you prisoner.... ?"poss missed sarcasim however, man made freedoms? if you are meaning human rights well yes, Nature gifts every living being the right and the means of these within this world. shelter - nature provides, humans want oversized bricks & mortar food - nature provides humans want money and hoarding/control rights water - nature provides, yet humans want to control and charge for it medicine - nature provides medicines, humans copy and patent it then charge for it. education - in nature it is provided by family, peers and experiences, humans want a right/wrong answer in repetition of what was taught, not how to think or question why/how it may be different. freedom of movement - nature has no borders that are require a paper nor money to pass through, humans draw lines on a map and then want to charge for crossing and for the paper of allowance. just to name a few. no living thing can own land, water or air...its just a piece of paper same as money is nothing more an IOU or digits on a screen. They can't remove it land, water or air from the planet and leave the universe with it and money/finance only works because people believe it does. who's small minded exactly? | |||
"How about the incarnation we can impose on ourselves, trapped I'm our own thinking, which can be the worst type of incarnation, being trapped in self, and seeing a pattern if thinking that leads to other things, thete us levels to freedom... Socially constructed freedoms, the freedoms, that working gives despite having responsibility with in that... Freedom doesn't come free, then the age old questions are we ever truly free You've just blown so many minds lol Trapped in thinking lol. I have thoughts, but I am not my thoughts, I have feelings but I am not my feelings, I have a body but I am not my body, I have a mind but I am not my mind, I have personhood but I am not a person. I am but I am not this or that. Our gilded cage is our illusion. A beautiful lie. Sounds a bit woo woo to me A simple thought experiment - a little nudge - to help us to see, wherever we are, we’re already free. Explain true freedom to me then, As I've been trapped, however I'm free from that, but still not truly free to do what I want to really do, as there are consequences to that. So am I free or constrained for the greater good Sartre would say we are always radically free, because we can choose to do or not to do. However we are not a human doing. We can choose to be present in the stillness of the eternal timeless now and witness whatever arises. When we simply are, we are free. Very idealistic notion " Experiential, not idealistic at all, as simple as recognising we were awareness from before our arse was slapped as a baby and we started crying. Human suffering and joy are two sides of the same coin, both illusions of our separateness from our True nature. Maintaining freedom as a constant state now that is idealistic, albeit in deep dreamless sleep that is exactly what we are. As we increase our ability to maintain our attention to witness what arises without attachment we become free in each moment. | |||
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"Freedom is an illusion. A beautiful illusion but based on what you perceive as reality. It is a layered rainbow of hope in that we can take a simple cursory glance and say we are free, but as we delve through the spectrum of our own realities we slowly come to understand that we are limited and where there are limits there is control, and where there is control, the mist of freedom evaporates. On the flip side we can state, I am free to think, though I may not be free to act, in this instance we transcend the physical realities and find a place in the metaphoric esoteric stars, out there in the galaxy of your mind, you have freedom. We are born into systems and realities that we learn to lean on as constants, as such we sacrifice freedom of action to ensure that, although constrained, there are rules and we have reconciled ourselves with the terms of those rules. Knowing that when we close our eyes, we are free in the universe of our mind. " | |||
"Freedom is an illusion. A beautiful illusion but based on what you perceive as reality. It is a layered rainbow of hope in that we can take a simple cursory glance and say we are free, but as we delve through the spectrum of our own realities we slowly come to understand that we are limited and where there are limits there is control, and where there is control, the mist of freedom evaporates. On the flip side we can state, I am free to think, though I may not be free to act, in this instance we transcend the physical realities and find a place in the metaphoric esoteric stars, out there in the galaxy of your mind, you have freedom. We are born into systems and realities that we learn to lean on as constants, as such we sacrifice freedom of action to ensure that, although constrained, there are rules and we have reconciled ourselves with the terms of those rules. Knowing that when we close our eyes, we are free in the universe of our mind. "Except we do not need to close our eyes, we can be free in full awareness of each and every moment. | |||
"Freedom is an illusion. A beautiful illusion but based on what you perceive as reality. It is a layered rainbow of hope in that we can take a simple cursory glance and say we are free, but as we delve through the spectrum of our own realities we slowly come to understand that we are limited and where there are limits there is control, and where there is control, the mist of freedom evaporates. On the flip side we can state, I am free to think, though I may not be free to act, in this instance we transcend the physical realities and find a place in the metaphoric esoteric stars, out there in the galaxy of your mind, you have freedom. We are born into systems and realities that we learn to lean on as constants, as such we sacrifice freedom of action to ensure that, although constrained, there are rules and we have reconciled ourselves with the terms of those rules. Knowing that when we close our eyes, we are free in the universe of our mind.
Except we do not need to close our eyes, we can be free in full awareness of each and every moment."Only if we evolve past drama and resolve our fears, for many that journey is a time away, everyone can be free when they close their eyes | |||
"Freedom is an illusion. A beautiful illusion but based on what you perceive as reality. It is a layered rainbow of hope in that we can take a simple cursory glance and say we are free, but as we delve through the spectrum of our own realities we slowly come to understand that we are limited and where there are limits there is control, and where there is control, the mist of freedom evaporates. On the flip side we can state, I am free to think, though I may not be free to act, in this instance we transcend the physical realities and find a place in the metaphoric esoteric stars, out there in the galaxy of your mind, you have freedom. We are born into systems and realities that we learn to lean on as constants, as such we sacrifice freedom of action to ensure that, although constrained, there are rules and we have reconciled ourselves with the terms of those rules. Knowing that when we close our eyes, we are free in the universe of our mind.
Except we do not need to close our eyes, we can be free in full awareness of each and every moment.
Only if we evolve past drama and resolve our fears, for many that journey is a time away, everyone can be free when they close their eyes "indeed. We can wake up now but growing up and cleaning up takes time. | |||
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"I think that if nothing else, this thread of musings from swingers on the internet, let alone philosophical thinkers, has proven that the quote is lovely trite nonsense. Freedom is a subjective term and comes with terms, conditions and provisions. One persons freedom is another’s oppression, and there are constant movements and addendums to what you’re free to do and free from. " ^nail on the head | |||
"no ones been free of gravity on this planet, oxygen is holding us hostage and greed has consumed many......
Err gravity, oxygen & even birth & death are forces of nature, beyond human control. Manipulated, mitigated or copied by humans is different subject and not totally controllable, never was.
Greed is a choice, no one makes anyone greedy but self.
So the op is only on about man made freedom? You know that?..... how very narrow minded, you are hostage to your limited vision.... can I free you? Or will your pride hold you prisoner.... ?
poss missed sarcasim however,
man made freedoms? if you are meaning human rights well yes, Nature gifts every living being the right and the means of these within this world.
shelter - nature provides,
humans want oversized bricks & mortar
food - nature provides humans want money and hoarding/control rights
water - nature provides, yet humans want to control and charge for it
medicine - nature provides medicines, humans copy and patent it then charge for it.
education - in nature it is provided by family, peers and experiences, humans want a right/wrong answer in repetition of what was taught, not how to think or question why/how it may be different.
freedom of movement - nature has no borders that are require a paper nor money to pass through, humans draw lines on a map and then want to charge for crossing and for the paper of allowance.
just to name a few.
no living thing can own land, water or air...its just a piece of paper same as money is nothing more an IOU or digits on a screen. They can't remove it land, water or air from the planet and leave the universe with it and money/finance only works because people believe it does.
who's small minded exactly?"Nice u turn lol .... guess you've read the other posts now.. but you have the freedom to u turn lol | |||
"How are we defining freedom here Shag?I would say that you can almost do whatever you want within reason, for example, everyday activities, like going out, doing the shopping and so on, like compared to a dictatorship where ones freedom is restricted. It certainly has been on gun ownership, I think we need more freedom regarding that area. I rather enjoy my freedom from guns. Then you are taking away someone else freedom to own guns, so where is the middle ground. Like most things, you please everyone all the time. I'm aware. I don't think there's a right answer, only a series of compromises. We all need to work together to find solutions." What happens if I think my freedoms is more important than yours, should I have to compromise with anyone? | |||
"How are we defining freedom here Shag?I would say that you can almost do whatever you want within reason, for example, everyday activities, like going out, doing the shopping and so on, like compared to a dictatorship where ones freedom is restricted. It certainly has been on gun ownership, I think we need more freedom regarding that area. I rather enjoy my freedom from guns. Then you are taking away someone else freedom to own guns, so where is the middle ground. Like most things, you please everyone all the time. I'm aware. I don't think there's a right answer, only a series of compromises. We all need to work together to find solutions. What happens if I think my freedoms is more important than yours, should I have to compromise with anyone?" If you want to live in society, yes. That's what happens, everyone compromises. | |||
"How are we defining freedom here Shag?I would say that you can almost do whatever you want within reason, for example, everyday activities, like going out, doing the shopping and so on, like compared to a dictatorship where ones freedom is restricted. It certainly has been on gun ownership, I think we need more freedom regarding that area. I rather enjoy my freedom from guns. Then you are taking away someone else freedom to own guns, so where is the middle ground. Like most things, you please everyone all the time. I'm aware. I don't think there's a right answer, only a series of compromises. We all need to work together to find solutions. What happens if I think my freedoms is more important than yours, should I have to compromise with anyone? If you want to live in society, yes. That's what happens, everyone compromises." Compromise is for the greater good and a more harmonious society, even though there will be those that push the boundaries | |||
"How are we defining freedom here Shag?I would say that you can almost do whatever you want within reason, for example, everyday activities, like going out, doing the shopping and so on, like compared to a dictatorship where ones freedom is restricted. It certainly has been on gun ownership, I think we need more freedom regarding that area. I rather enjoy my freedom from guns. Then you are taking away someone else freedom to own guns, so where is the middle ground. Like most things, you please everyone all the time. I'm aware. I don't think there's a right answer, only a series of compromises. We all need to work together to find solutions. What happens if I think my freedoms is more important than yours, should I have to compromise with anyone? If you want to live in society, yes. That's what happens, everyone compromises. Compromise is for the greater good and a more harmonious society, even though there will be those that push the boundaries " Yes. What the greater good is, is up for endless debate. But living in a society where more than one person has freedom - will involve compromise. | |||
"How are we defining freedom here Shag?I would say that you can almost do whatever you want within reason, for example, everyday activities, like going out, doing the shopping and so on, like compared to a dictatorship where ones freedom is restricted. It certainly has been on gun ownership, I think we need more freedom regarding that area. I rather enjoy my freedom from guns. Then you are taking away someone else freedom to own guns, so where is the middle ground. Like most things, you please everyone all the time. I'm aware. I don't think there's a right answer, only a series of compromises. We all need to work together to find solutions. What happens if I think my freedoms is more important than yours, should I have to compromise with anyone? If you want to live in society, yes. That's what happens, everyone compromises. Compromise is for the greater good and a more harmonious society, even though there will be those that push the boundaries Yes. What the greater good is, is up for endless debate. But living in a society where more than one person has freedom - will involve compromise." Love this discussion. What is a fair and reasonable way to identify and establish and habitualise any compromises deemed appropriate or necessary. Temporarily or permanently.? | |||
"How are we defining freedom here Shag?I would say that you can almost do whatever you want within reason, for example, everyday activities, like going out, doing the shopping and so on, like compared to a dictatorship where ones freedom is restricted. It certainly has been on gun ownership, I think we need more freedom regarding that area. I rather enjoy my freedom from guns. Then you are taking away someone else freedom to own guns, so where is the middle ground. Like most things, you please everyone all the time. I'm aware. I don't think there's a right answer, only a series of compromises. We all need to work together to find solutions. What happens if I think my freedoms is more important than yours, should I have to compromise with anyone? If you want to live in society, yes. That's what happens, everyone compromises. Compromise is for the greater good and a more harmonious society, even though there will be those that push the boundaries Yes. What the greater good is, is up for endless debate. But living in a society where more than one person has freedom - will involve compromise. Love this discussion. What is a fair and reasonable way to identify and establish and habitualise any compromises deemed appropriate or necessary. Temporarily or permanently.? " I don't know. Wish I did. I think permanent decisions are going to be pretty rare - things like, we no longer own people as property. Otherwise, society shifts in values, we learn more, our realities change (could I ever have predicted that a situation came along where it was even arguably justifiable to put most of the population under house arrest? No) The risk with any such set of decisions is that they perpetuate existing power structures, rather than working out what might truly be best given the information we have now. It's a tricky one. | |||
"How are we defining freedom here Shag?I would say that you can almost do whatever you want within reason, for example, everyday activities, like going out, doing the shopping and so on, like compared to a dictatorship where ones freedom is restricted. It certainly has been on gun ownership, I think we need more freedom regarding that area. I rather enjoy my freedom from guns. Then you are taking away someone else freedom to own guns, so where is the middle ground. Like most things, you please everyone all the time. I'm aware. I don't think there's a right answer, only a series of compromises. We all need to work together to find solutions. What happens if I think my freedoms is more important than yours, should I have to compromise with anyone? If you want to live in society, yes. That's what happens, everyone compromises. Compromise is for the greater good and a more harmonious society, even though there will be those that push the boundaries Yes. What the greater good is, is up for endless debate. But living in a society where more than one person has freedom - will involve compromise. Love this discussion. What is a fair and reasonable way to identify and establish and habitualise any compromises deemed appropriate or necessary. Temporarily or permanently.? I don't know. Wish I did. I think permanent decisions are going to be pretty rare - things like, we no longer own people as property. Otherwise, society shifts in values, we learn more, our realities change (could I ever have predicted that a situation came along where it was even arguably justifiable to put most of the population under house arrest? No) The risk with any such set of decisions is that they perpetuate existing power structures, rather than working out what might truly be best given the information we have now. It's a tricky one." I think the level of compromise, is subjective to the situation that Compromise is needed in, there will be times when it's due to conflict resolution, then does the solution become a permanent fix or is it just an Interim solution.. As well as both or all parties being happy with said compromise, or no later deviation feo what has been arranged... I guess it's a minefield rhat has to be navigated extremely carefully, it's not a one sixe fits all Scenario, diffremt merits and problems conflicts need diffrent measures | |||
"How are we defining freedom here Shag?I would say that you can almost do whatever you want within reason, for example, everyday activities, like going out, doing the shopping and so on, like compared to a dictatorship where ones freedom is restricted. It certainly has been on gun ownership, I think we need more freedom regarding that area. I rather enjoy my freedom from guns. Then you are taking away someone else freedom to own guns, so where is the middle ground. Like most things, you please everyone all the time. I'm aware. I don't think there's a right answer, only a series of compromises. We all need to work together to find solutions. What happens if I think my freedoms is more important than yours, should I have to compromise with anyone? If you want to live in society, yes. That's what happens, everyone compromises. Compromise is for the greater good and a more harmonious society, even though there will be those that push the boundaries Yes. What the greater good is, is up for endless debate. But living in a society where more than one person has freedom - will involve compromise. Love this discussion. What is a fair and reasonable way to identify and establish and habitualise any compromises deemed appropriate or necessary. Temporarily or permanently.? I don't know. Wish I did. I think permanent decisions are going to be pretty rare - things like, we no longer own people as property. Otherwise, society shifts in values, we learn more, our realities change (could I ever have predicted that a situation came along where it was even arguably justifiable to put most of the population under house arrest? No) The risk with any such set of decisions is that they perpetuate existing power structures, rather than working out what might truly be best given the information we have now. It's a tricky one. I think the level of compromise, is subjective to the situation that Compromise is needed in, there will be times when it's due to conflict resolution, then does the solution become a permanent fix or is it just an Interim solution.. As well as both or all parties being happy with said compromise, or no later deviation feo what has been arranged... I guess it's a minefield rhat has to be navigated extremely carefully, it's not a one sixe fits all Scenario, diffremt merits and problems conflicts need diffrent measures " Absolutely. We're on the same page. | |||
"How are we defining freedom here Shag?I would say that you can almost do whatever you want within reason, for example, everyday activities, like going out, doing the shopping and so on, like compared to a dictatorship where ones freedom is restricted. It certainly has been on gun ownership, I think we need more freedom regarding that area. I rather enjoy my freedom from guns. Then you are taking away someone else freedom to own guns, so where is the middle ground. Like most things, you please everyone all the time. I'm aware. I don't think there's a right answer, only a series of compromises. We all need to work together to find solutions. What happens if I think my freedoms is more important than yours, should I have to compromise with anyone? If you want to live in society, yes. That's what happens, everyone compromises. Compromise is for the greater good and a more harmonious society, even though there will be those that push the boundaries Yes. What the greater good is, is up for endless debate. But living in a society where more than one person has freedom - will involve compromise. Love this discussion. What is a fair and reasonable way to identify and establish and habitualise any compromises deemed appropriate or necessary. Temporarily or permanently.? I don't know. Wish I did. I think permanent decisions are going to be pretty rare - things like, we no longer own people as property. Otherwise, society shifts in values, we learn more, our realities change (could I ever have predicted that a situation came along where it was even arguably justifiable to put most of the population under house arrest? No) The risk with any such set of decisions is that they perpetuate existing power structures, rather than working out what might truly be best given the information we have now. It's a tricky one. I think the level of compromise, is subjective to the situation that Compromise is needed in, there will be times when it's due to conflict resolution, then does the solution become a permanent fix or is it just an Interim solution.. As well as both or all parties being happy with said compromise, or no later deviation feo what has been arranged... I guess it's a minefield rhat has to be navigated extremely carefully, it's not a one sixe fits all Scenario, diffremt merits and problems conflicts need diffrent measures Absolutely. We're on the same page." So it seems, if only life was easy hey  | |||
"How are we defining freedom here Shag?I would say that you can almost do whatever you want within reason, for example, everyday activities, like going out, doing the shopping and so on, like compared to a dictatorship where ones freedom is restricted. It certainly has been on gun ownership, I think we need more freedom regarding that area. I rather enjoy my freedom from guns. Then you are taking away someone else freedom to own guns, so where is the middle ground. Like most things, you please everyone all the time. I'm aware. I don't think there's a right answer, only a series of compromises. We all need to work together to find solutions. What happens if I think my freedoms is more important than yours, should I have to compromise with anyone? If you want to live in society, yes. That's what happens, everyone compromises. Compromise is for the greater good and a more harmonious society, even though there will be those that push the boundaries Yes. What the greater good is, is up for endless debate. But living in a society where more than one person has freedom - will involve compromise. Love this discussion. What is a fair and reasonable way to identify and establish and habitualise any compromises deemed appropriate or necessary. Temporarily or permanently.? I don't know. Wish I did. I think permanent decisions are going to be pretty rare - things like, we no longer own people as property. Otherwise, society shifts in values, we learn more, our realities change (could I ever have predicted that a situation came along where it was even arguably justifiable to put most of the population under house arrest? No) The risk with any such set of decisions is that they perpetuate existing power structures, rather than working out what might truly be best given the information we have now. It's a tricky one. I think the level of compromise, is subjective to the situation that Compromise is needed in, there will be times when it's due to conflict resolution, then does the solution become a permanent fix or is it just an Interim solution.. As well as both or all parties being happy with said compromise, or no later deviation feo what has been arranged... I guess it's a minefield rhat has to be navigated extremely carefully, it's not a one sixe fits all Scenario, diffremt merits and problems conflicts need diffrent measures Absolutely. We're on the same page." Agreement on here? Pfft in victor meldrew voice... "I don't believe it" | |||
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"How are we defining freedom here Shag?I would say that you can almost do whatever you want within reason, for example, everyday activities, like going out, doing the shopping and so on, like compared to a dictatorship where ones freedom is restricted. It certainly has been on gun ownership, I think we need more freedom regarding that area. I rather enjoy my freedom from guns. Then you are taking away someone else freedom to own guns, so where is the middle ground. Like most things, you please everyone all the time. I'm aware. I don't think there's a right answer, only a series of compromises. We all need to work together to find solutions. What happens if I think my freedoms is more important than yours, should I have to compromise with anyone? If you want to live in society, yes. That's what happens, everyone compromises. Compromise is for the greater good and a more harmonious society, even though there will be those that push the boundaries Yes. What the greater good is, is up for endless debate. But living in a society where more than one person has freedom - will involve compromise. Love this discussion. What is a fair and reasonable way to identify and establish and habitualise any compromises deemed appropriate or necessary. Temporarily or permanently.? I don't know. Wish I did. I think permanent decisions are going to be pretty rare - things like, we no longer own people as property. Otherwise, society shifts in values, we learn more, our realities change (could I ever have predicted that a situation came along where it was even arguably justifiable to put most of the population under house arrest? No) The risk with any such set of decisions is that they perpetuate existing power structures, rather than working out what might truly be best given the information we have now. It's a tricky one. I think the level of compromise, is subjective to the situation that Compromise is needed in, there will be times when it's due to conflict resolution, then does the solution become a permanent fix or is it just an Interim solution.. As well as both or all parties being happy with said compromise, or no later deviation feo what has been arranged... I guess it's a minefield rhat has to be navigated extremely carefully, it's not a one sixe fits all Scenario, diffremt merits and problems conflicts need diffrent measures Absolutely. We're on the same page. Agreement on here? Pfft in victor meldrew voice... "I don't believe it" " When did hell freeze over  | |||
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"So apart from my earlier posts of our only real freedom being consciousness and non attachment to our relative selves moment to moment experience, there is the concept of liberating disciplines. Liberating disciplines in this context would be a case where the degrees of freedom in society increase based on the disciplines of how well we collaborate together to develop the greatest depth of awareness, culture and social systems based on love, mutuality, lifelong holistic learning and inter systemic development, and scientific inquiry to support this for the greatest span on the planet. Our freedom is dependent on planetary balance. Learning the power of balance would lead to our greatest mutual freedom. Our freedom would be constrained by the disciplines until we learn together. Leadership of such liberating disciplines is so rare right now that we need to cultivate that first." Too deep for me on a Thursday all this Existential stuff | |||
"So apart from my earlier posts of our only real freedom being consciousness and non attachment to our relative selves moment to moment experience, there is the concept of liberating disciplines. Liberating disciplines in this context would be a case where the degrees of freedom in society increase based on the disciplines of how well we collaborate together to develop the greatest depth of awareness, culture and social systems based on love, mutuality, lifelong holistic learning and inter systemic development, and scientific inquiry to support this for the greatest span on the planet. Our freedom is dependent on planetary balance. Learning the power of balance would lead to our greatest mutual freedom. Our freedom would be constrained by the disciplines until we learn together. Leadership of such liberating disciplines is so rare right now that we need to cultivate that first. Too deep for me on a Thursday all this Existential stuff " Let me know which day suits you better  | |||
"So apart from my earlier posts of our only real freedom being consciousness and non attachment to our relative selves moment to moment experience, there is the concept of liberating disciplines. Liberating disciplines in this context would be a case where the degrees of freedom in society increase based on the disciplines of how well we collaborate together to develop the greatest depth of awareness, culture and social systems based on love, mutuality, lifelong holistic learning and inter systemic development, and scientific inquiry to support this for the greatest span on the planet. Our freedom is dependent on planetary balance. Learning the power of balance would lead to our greatest mutual freedom. Our freedom would be constrained by the disciplines until we learn together. Leadership of such liberating disciplines is so rare right now that we need to cultivate that first. Too deep for me on a Thursday all this Existential stuff Let me know which day suits you better "I'll have a think | |||
"So apart from my earlier posts of our only real freedom being consciousness and non attachment to our relative selves moment to moment experience, there is the concept of liberating disciplines. Liberating disciplines in this context would be a case where the degrees of freedom in society increase based on the disciplines of how well we collaborate together to develop the greatest depth of awareness, culture and social systems based on love, mutuality, lifelong holistic learning and inter systemic development, and scientific inquiry to support this for the greatest span on the planet. Our freedom is dependent on planetary balance. Learning the power of balance would lead to our greatest mutual freedom. Our freedom would be constrained by the disciplines until we learn together. Leadership of such liberating disciplines is so rare right now that we need to cultivate that first. Too deep for me on a Thursday all this Existential stuff Let me know which day suits you better "Yesterday lunch time would be good | |||
"So apart from my earlier posts of our only real freedom being consciousness and non attachment to our relative selves moment to moment experience, there is the concept of liberating disciplines. Liberating disciplines in this context would be a case where the degrees of freedom in society increase based on the disciplines of how well we collaborate together to develop the greatest depth of awareness, culture and social systems based on love, mutuality, lifelong holistic learning and inter systemic development, and scientific inquiry to support this for the greatest span on the planet. Our freedom is dependent on planetary balance. Learning the power of balance would lead to our greatest mutual freedom. Our freedom would be constrained by the disciplines until we learn together. Leadership of such liberating disciplines is so rare right now that we need to cultivate that first. Too deep for me on a Thursday all this Existential stuff Let me know which day suits you better
Yesterday lunch time would be good "I’ll qet my time turner out of the attic | |||
"So apart from my earlier posts of our only real freedom being consciousness and non attachment to our relative selves moment to moment experience, there is the concept of liberating disciplines. Liberating disciplines in this context would be a case where the degrees of freedom in society increase based on the disciplines of how well we collaborate together to develop the greatest depth of awareness, culture and social systems based on love, mutuality, lifelong holistic learning and inter systemic development, and scientific inquiry to support this for the greatest span on the planet. Our freedom is dependent on planetary balance. Learning the power of balance would lead to our greatest mutual freedom. Our freedom would be constrained by the disciplines until we learn together. Leadership of such liberating disciplines is so rare right now that we need to cultivate that first. Too deep for me on a Thursday all this Existential stuff Let me know which day suits you better
Yesterday lunch time would be good
I’ll qet my time turner out of the attic"Well as days of the week and time are man made constructs I'm sure it won't take you long.. Or will it? | |||
"How are we defining freedom here Shag?I would say that you can almost do whatever you want within reason, for example, everyday activities, like going out, doing the shopping and so on, like compared to a dictatorship where ones freedom is restricted. It certainly has been on gun ownership, I think we need more freedom regarding that area. I rather enjoy my freedom from guns. Then you are taking away someone else freedom to own guns, so where is the middle ground. Like most things, you please everyone all the time. I'm aware. I don't think there's a right answer, only a series of compromises. We all need to work together to find solutions. What happens if I think my freedoms is more important than yours, should I have to compromise with anyone? If you want to live in society, yes. That's what happens, everyone compromises. Compromise is for the greater good and a more harmonious society, even though there will be those that push the boundaries Yes. What the greater good is, is up for endless debate. But living in a society where more than one person has freedom - will involve compromise." or mass brain washing? cloning? is china happier than the west? it might be...... has too much freedom made us unhappy?... or is that because we dont know how to use it? | |||
"So apart from my earlier posts of our only real freedom being consciousness and non attachment to our relative selves moment to moment experience, there is the concept of liberating disciplines. Liberating disciplines in this context would be a case where the degrees of freedom in society increase based on the disciplines of how well we collaborate together to develop the greatest depth of awareness, culture and social systems based on love, mutuality, lifelong holistic learning and inter systemic development, and scientific inquiry to support this for the greatest span on the planet. Our freedom is dependent on planetary balance. Learning the power of balance would lead to our greatest mutual freedom. Our freedom would be constrained by the disciplines until we learn together. Leadership of such liberating disciplines is so rare right now that we need to cultivate that first. Too deep for me on a Thursday all this Existential stuff Let me know which day suits you better
Yesterday lunch time would be good
I’ll qet my time turner out of the attic
Well as days of the week and time are man made constructs I'm sure it won't take you long.. Or will it? "I think my foot pain is real though, so it might take a while to get up the ladder ?? | |||
"How are we defining freedom here Shag?I would say that you can almost do whatever you want within reason, for example, everyday activities, like going out, doing the shopping and so on, like compared to a dictatorship where ones freedom is restricted. It certainly has been on gun ownership, I think we need more freedom regarding that area. I rather enjoy my freedom from guns. Then you are taking away someone else freedom to own guns, so where is the middle ground. Like most things, you please everyone all the time. I'm aware. I don't think there's a right answer, only a series of compromises. We all need to work together to find solutions. What happens if I think my freedoms is more important than yours, should I have to compromise with anyone? If you want to live in society, yes. That's what happens, everyone compromises. Compromise is for the greater good and a more harmonious society, even though there will be those that push the boundaries Yes. What the greater good is, is up for endless debate. But living in a society where more than one person has freedom - will involve compromise. or mass brain washing? cloning? is china happier than the west? it might be...... has too much freedom made us unhappy?... or is that because we dont know how to use it?" We don’t know how to use our freedom. We look for happiness outside of ourselves and our addictions and shadows cast a veil over our ability to find peace, contentment and equanimity. We have genetic code and large parts of our brain that are inactive. Why? What are we missing? What is it that is hiding in plain sight that we don’t see? | |||
"How are we defining freedom here Shag?I would say that you can almost do whatever you want within reason, for example, everyday activities, like going out, doing the shopping and so on, like compared to a dictatorship where ones freedom is restricted. It certainly has been on gun ownership, I think we need more freedom regarding that area. I rather enjoy my freedom from guns. Then you are taking away someone else freedom to own guns, so where is the middle ground. Like most things, you please everyone all the time. I'm aware. I don't think there's a right answer, only a series of compromises. We all need to work together to find solutions. What happens if I think my freedoms is more important than yours, should I have to compromise with anyone? If you want to live in society, yes. That's what happens, everyone compromises. Compromise is for the greater good and a more harmonious society, even though there will be those that push the boundaries Yes. What the greater good is, is up for endless debate. But living in a society where more than one person has freedom - will involve compromise. or mass brain washing? cloning? is china happier than the west? it might be...... has too much freedom made us unhappy?... or is that because we dont know how to use it? We don’t know how to use our freedom. We look for happiness outside of ourselves and our addictions and shadows cast a veil over our ability to find peace, contentment and equanimity. We have genetic code and large parts of our brain that are inactive. Why? What are we missing? What is it that is hiding in plain sight that we don’t see?" Addictions do not bring happiness, in there obsessive compulsive nature | |||
"How are we defining freedom here Shag?I would say that you can almost do whatever you want within reason, for example, everyday activities, like going out, doing the shopping and so on, like compared to a dictatorship where ones freedom is restricted. It certainly has been on gun ownership, I think we need more freedom regarding that area. I rather enjoy my freedom from guns. Then you are taking away someone else freedom to own guns, so where is the middle ground. Like most things, you please everyone all the time. I'm aware. I don't think there's a right answer, only a series of compromises. We all need to work together to find solutions. What happens if I think my freedoms is more important than yours, should I have to compromise with anyone? If you want to live in society, yes. That's what happens, everyone compromises. Compromise is for the greater good and a more harmonious society, even though there will be those that push the boundaries Yes. What the greater good is, is up for endless debate. But living in a society where more than one person has freedom - will involve compromise. or mass brain washing? cloning? is china happier than the west? it might be...... has too much freedom made us unhappy?... or is that because we dont know how to use it? We don’t know how to use our freedom. We look for happiness outside of ourselves and our addictions and shadows cast a veil over our ability to find peace, contentment and equanimity. We have genetic code and large parts of our brain that are inactive. Why? What are we missing? What is it that is hiding in plain sight that we don’t see? Addictions do not bring happiness, in there obsessive compulsive nature " indeed yet they form part of our comfortable cage. | |||
"How are we defining freedom here Shag?I would say that you can almost do whatever you want within reason, for example, everyday activities, like going out, doing the shopping and so on, like compared to a dictatorship where ones freedom is restricted. It certainly has been on gun ownership, I think we need more freedom regarding that area. I rather enjoy my freedom from guns. Then you are taking away someone else freedom to own guns, so where is the middle ground. Like most things, you please everyone all the time. I'm aware. I don't think there's a right answer, only a series of compromises. We all need to work together to find solutions. What happens if I think my freedoms is more important than yours, should I have to compromise with anyone? If you want to live in society, yes. That's what happens, everyone compromises. Compromise is for the greater good and a more harmonious society, even though there will be those that push the boundaries Yes. What the greater good is, is up for endless debate. But living in a society where more than one person has freedom - will involve compromise. or mass brain washing? cloning? is china happier than the west? it might be...... has too much freedom made us unhappy?... or is that because we dont know how to use it? We don’t know how to use our freedom. We look for happiness outside of ourselves and our addictions and shadows cast a veil over our ability to find peace, contentment and equanimity. We have genetic code and large parts of our brain that are inactive. Why? What are we missing? What is it that is hiding in plain sight that we don’t see?" yes we are still apes but sitting in cars! we havent evolved to watch tv! we have built a cage of comfort... | |||
"How are we defining freedom here Shag?I would say that you can almost do whatever you want within reason, for example, everyday activities, like going out, doing the shopping and so on, like compared to a dictatorship where ones freedom is restricted. It certainly has been on gun ownership, I think we need more freedom regarding that area. I rather enjoy my freedom from guns. Then you are taking away someone else freedom to own guns, so where is the middle ground. Like most things, you please everyone all the time. I'm aware. I don't think there's a right answer, only a series of compromises. We all need to work together to find solutions. What happens if I think my freedoms is more important than yours, should I have to compromise with anyone? If you want to live in society, yes. That's what happens, everyone compromises. Compromise is for the greater good and a more harmonious society, even though there will be those that push the boundaries Yes. What the greater good is, is up for endless debate. But living in a society where more than one person has freedom - will involve compromise. or mass brain washing? cloning? is china happier than the west? it might be...... has too much freedom made us unhappy?... or is that because we dont know how to use it? We don’t know how to use our freedom. We look for happiness outside of ourselves and our addictions and shadows cast a veil over our ability to find peace, contentment and equanimity. We have genetic code and large parts of our brain that are inactive. Why? What are we missing? What is it that is hiding in plain sight that we don’t see? yes we are still apes but sitting in cars! we havent evolved to watch tv! we have built a cage of comfort..." time to break out | |||
"How are we defining freedom here Shag?I would say that you can almost do whatever you want within reason, for example, everyday activities, like going out, doing the shopping and so on, like compared to a dictatorship where ones freedom is restricted. It certainly has been on gun ownership, I think we need more freedom regarding that area. I rather enjoy my freedom from guns. Then you are taking away someone else freedom to own guns, so where is the middle ground. Like most things, you please everyone all the time. I'm aware. I don't think there's a right answer, only a series of compromises. We all need to work together to find solutions. What happens if I think my freedoms is more important than yours, should I have to compromise with anyone? If you want to live in society, yes. That's what happens, everyone compromises. Compromise is for the greater good and a more harmonious society, even though there will be those that push the boundaries Yes. What the greater good is, is up for endless debate. But living in a society where more than one person has freedom - will involve compromise. or mass brain washing? cloning? is china happier than the west? it might be...... has too much freedom made us unhappy?... or is that because we dont know how to use it? We don’t know how to use our freedom. We look for happiness outside of ourselves and our addictions and shadows cast a veil over our ability to find peace, contentment and equanimity. We have genetic code and large parts of our brain that are inactive. Why? What are we missing? What is it that is hiding in plain sight that we don’t see? yes we are still apes but sitting in cars! we havent evolved to watch tv! we have built a cage of comfort... time to break out "It's like an intro script to a pop video... | |||
"How are we defining freedom here Shag?I would say that you can almost do whatever you want within reason, for example, everyday activities, like going out, doing the shopping and so on, like compared to a dictatorship where ones freedom is restricted. It certainly has been on gun ownership, I think we need more freedom regarding that area. I rather enjoy my freedom from guns. Then you are taking away someone else freedom to own guns, so where is the middle ground. Like most things, you please everyone all the time. I'm aware. I don't think there's a right answer, only a series of compromises. We all need to work together to find solutions. What happens if I think my freedoms is more important than yours, should I have to compromise with anyone? If you want to live in society, yes. That's what happens, everyone compromises. Compromise is for the greater good and a more harmonious society, even though there will be those that push the boundaries Yes. What the greater good is, is up for endless debate. But living in a society where more than one person has freedom - will involve compromise. or mass brain washing? cloning? is china happier than the west? it might be...... has too much freedom made us unhappy?... or is that because we dont know how to use it? We don’t know how to use our freedom. We look for happiness outside of ourselves and our addictions and shadows cast a veil over our ability to find peace, contentment and equanimity. We have genetic code and large parts of our brain that are inactive. Why? What are we missing? What is it that is hiding in plain sight that we don’t see?" I'm not sure we've even adequately defined freedom. It's just a word that gets thrown around. | |||
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"How are we defining freedom here Shag?I would say that you can almost do whatever you want within reason, for example, everyday activities, like going out, doing the shopping and so on, like compared to a dictatorship where ones freedom is restricted. It certainly has been on gun ownership, I think we need more freedom regarding that area. I rather enjoy my freedom from guns. Then you are taking away someone else freedom to own guns, so where is the middle ground. Like most things, you please everyone all the time. I'm aware. I don't think there's a right answer, only a series of compromises. We all need to work together to find solutions. What happens if I think my freedoms is more important than yours, should I have to compromise with anyone? If you want to live in society, yes. That's what happens, everyone compromises. Compromise is for the greater good and a more harmonious society, even though there will be those that push the boundaries Yes. What the greater good is, is up for endless debate. But living in a society where more than one person has freedom - will involve compromise. or mass brain washing? cloning? is china happier than the west? it might be...... has too much freedom made us unhappy?... or is that because we dont know how to use it? We don’t know how to use our freedom. We look for happiness outside of ourselves and our addictions and shadows cast a veil over our ability to find peace, contentment and equanimity. We have genetic code and large parts of our brain that are inactive. Why? What are we missing? What is it that is hiding in plain sight that we don’t see? I'm not sure we've even adequately defined freedom. It's just a word that gets thrown around." That is true, I also think it means different things depending on your developmental stage, so we will always interpret it through the filters of our worldview. There is not one definition. If we imagine development like the colours of the rainbow then we see freedom through the colour of our lenses. As we move through the rainbow we can eventually understand the spectrum of possible definitions and appreciate why people might define it that way. | |||
