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Preferences
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"This word is bandied around a lot and in of itself, it isn’t a problem. However, when preferences are used to conceal prejudices and discriminatory behaviours, is that still acceptable? How do we distinguish between what is acceptable and not acceptable or is a person’s preference sacred and not to be questioned? How do we ensure that we’re keeping ourselves honest if no one is able to challenge them? Thoughts folks " Question is Op, how do we really know ppls true motives, prejudices , morals and values, especially if there under the Giuse of preferences.....especially on such a forum as fab, as its the perfect place to be a chameleon | |||
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"Preference doesn't need to be stated loudly in my opinion. You've gone to the cake shop, you looked at the cakes. You then tell the appropriate person I choose that one. There's no need to say I don't like the coffee cake or the custard slice etc before choosing the lemon meringue pie. Find what it is you want, ask if you can have a slice or not then enjoy it if you can. " Pretty much this nail it. People tend to put a lot of focus in their profiles about what they are looking for. But not what they actually are. Which is weird. It’s a profile to describe yourself not others.... I only put “relaxed” in mine because that’s a state of being. | |||
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"Preference doesn't need to be stated loudly in my opinion. You've gone to the cake shop, you looked at the cakes. You then tell the appropriate person I choose that one. There's no need to say I don't like the coffee cake or the custard slice etc before choosing the lemon meringue pie. Find what it is you want, ask if you can have a slice or not then enjoy it if you can. " I like this analogy a lot, but the only problem is that you get other people saying "what have you got against coffee cake?" or "have you tried all the types of custard slices before deciding you don't like them?". These arguments come up often on Fab so there is no real solution. I think you're right through in that you probably should keep preferences to yourself as you don't really have to justify them to anyone | |||
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"Preference doesn't need to be stated loudly in my opinion. You've gone to the cake shop, you looked at the cakes. You then tell the appropriate person I choose that one. There's no need to say I don't like the coffee cake or the custard slice etc before choosing the lemon meringue pie. Find what it is you want, ask if you can have a slice or not then enjoy it if you can. " Very well put. This is how I see it too.  | |||
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"Preference doesn't need to be stated loudly in my opinion. You've gone to the cake shop, you looked at the cakes. You then tell the appropriate person I choose that one. There's no need to say I don't like the coffee cake or the custard slice etc before choosing the lemon meringue pie. Find what it is you want, ask if you can have a slice or not then enjoy it if you can. " | |||
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"Preference doesn't need to be stated loudly in my opinion. You've gone to the cake shop, you looked at the cakes. You then tell the appropriate person I choose that one. There's no need to say I don't like the coffee cake or the custard slice etc before choosing the lemon meringue pie. Find what it is you want, ask if you can have a slice or not then enjoy it if you can. " That’s an interesting analogy, except people aren’t different flavours according to skin tone, shape, size, sexuality, etc and cakes don’t ask you why you’re not licking the cream from their buns! I see your point though. How do you ensure that your preferences aren’t prejudiced? | |||
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"Preference doesn't need to be stated loudly in my opinion. You've gone to the cake shop, you looked at the cakes. You then tell the appropriate person I choose that one. There's no need to say I don't like the coffee cake or the custard slice etc before choosing the lemon meringue pie. Find what it is you want, ask if you can have a slice or not then enjoy it if you can. " From a purely male perspective can we change the cake shop analogy to a “muff you like” restaurant? | |||
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"Let's say I am a raging racist, homophobic, ageist type but I keep it to myself and don't openly rant about all the XYZ that I 'hate'. Let's say I politely say "no thank you my preference is to not meet them". Then what? " They ask why | |||
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"Preference doesn't need to be stated loudly in my opinion. You've gone to the cake shop, you looked at the cakes. You then tell the appropriate person I choose that one. There's no need to say I don't like the coffee cake or the custard slice etc before choosing the lemon meringue pie. Find what it is you want, ask if you can have a slice or not then enjoy it if you can. That’s an interesting analogy, except people aren’t different flavours according to skin tone, shape, size, sexuality, etc and cakes don’t ask you why you’re not licking the cream from their buns! I see your point though. How do you ensure that your preferences aren’t prejudiced? " What one sees as prejudiced Tea other people don’t. That’s the issue. I see plenty of things on here that are apparently sexist, racist, homophobic and I’ve not thought they were at all. So unless everyone thinks the same, which they don’t, it’s impossible to ensure. Like I’ve said before it’s just common sense not to put certain things on your profile. | |||
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"Let's say I am a raging racist, homophobic, ageist type but I keep it to myself and don't openly rant about all the XYZ that I 'hate'. Let's say I politely say "no thank you my preference is to not meet them". Then what? " You just state in your profile 'Looking for white straight men aged between xxx' Simples | |||
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"This word is bandied around a lot and in of itself, it isn’t a problem. However, when preferences are used to conceal prejudices and discriminatory behaviours, is that still acceptable? How do we distinguish between what is acceptable and not acceptable or is a person’s preference sacred and not to be questioned? How do we ensure that we’re keeping ourselves honest if no one is able to challenge them? Thoughts folks Question is Op, how do we really know ppls true motives, prejudices , morals and values, especially if there under the Giuse of preferences.....especially on such a forum as fab, as its the perfect place to be a chameleon " No, I think you're fundamentally wrong in that a preference is NOT a guise, an endpoint, it's a starting point. Those who think it is are typically pretty hard of thinking it seems. | |||
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"Preference doesn't need to be stated loudly in my opinion. You've gone to the cake shop, you looked at the cakes. You then tell the appropriate person I choose that one. There's no need to say I don't like the coffee cake or the custard slice etc before choosing the lemon meringue pie. Find what it is you want, ask if you can have a slice or not then enjoy it if you can. " Definitely agree with that, wherever the crumbs fall. | |||
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"A person preference should never be questioned because it's your right and entitlement to have without judgement And judging makes it discrimination" No, wrong on dictionary definitions let alone anything subtler. | |||
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"Let's say I am a raging racist, homophobic, ageist type but I keep it to myself and don't openly rant about all the XYZ that I 'hate'. Let's say I politely say "no thank you my preference is to not meet them". Then what? " Then you get "Why not". | |||
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" How do you ensure that your preferences aren’t prejudiced? " Stripping off ALL and ANY context, preferences are ALWAYS derived from a prejudice of some sort. That's just what the words mean, that's why they exist. | |||
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"For example. 2 men together does not turn me on at all. In fact it does quite the opposite. I’ve said this before on a thread and been accused of being homophobic. That to me is absolutely ridiculous. " Not being aroused by it is preference but if you’re meeting a single guy, why does it matter if he’s had sex with a man? You don’t need to be aroused by his past, just as he doesn’t yours. | |||
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"A person preference should never be questioned because it's your right and entitlement to have without judgement And judging makes it discrimination" The onus should be on the person to understand where they come from and why they are preferences. They’re not sacred | |||
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"For example. 2 men together does not turn me on at all. In fact it does quite the opposite. I’ve said this before on a thread and been accused of being homophobic. That to me is absolutely ridiculous. Not being aroused by it is preference but if you’re meeting a single guy, why does it matter if he’s had sex with a man? You don’t need to be aroused by his past, just as he doesn’t yours. " But why does it matter if some people don’t want to meet bi men? Whatever their reason. I haven’t met someone because of a woman they’ve met in the past. My choice! | |||
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"Let's say I am a raging racist, homophobic, ageist type but I keep it to myself and don't openly rant about all the XYZ that I 'hate'. Let's say I politely say "no thank you my preference is to not meet them". Then what? You just state in your profile 'Looking for white straight men aged between xxx' Simples "No sorry, my point is, in this example I am a terribly prejudiced racist homophobe. How can it be 'challenged' as per the OP? I should be encouraged to fuck people I hate? | |||
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"Let's say I am a raging racist, homophobic, ageist type but I keep it to myself and don't openly rant about all the XYZ that I 'hate'. Let's say I politely say "no thank you my preference is to not meet them". Then what? They ask why" That's why I no longer reply to people that don't interest me. I don't need - or want - to explain why I won't meet them. | |||
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"Preference doesn't need to be stated loudly in my opinion. You've gone to the cake shop, you looked at the cakes. You then tell the appropriate person I choose that one. There's no need to say I don't like the coffee cake or the custard slice etc before choosing the lemon meringue pie. Find what it is you want, ask if you can have a slice or not then enjoy it if you can. That’s an interesting analogy, except people aren’t different flavours according to skin tone, shape, size, sexuality, etc and cakes don’t ask you why you’re not licking the cream from their buns! I see your point though. How do you ensure that your preferences aren’t prejudiced? What one sees as prejudiced Tea other people don’t. That’s the issue. I see plenty of things on here that are apparently sexist, racist, homophobic and I’ve not thought they were at all. So unless everyone thinks the same, which they don’t, it’s impossible to ensure. Like I’ve said before it’s just common sense not to put certain things on your profile. " There are quantifiable factors that make something racist, sexist, etc. You may not find them so but that doesn’t mean that they’re not. Opinion isn’t a factor in whether something is prejudiced and intent often isn’t either. | |||
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"Let's say I am a raging racist, homophobic, ageist type but I keep it to myself and don't openly rant about all the XYZ that I 'hate'. Let's say I politely say "no thank you my preference is to not meet them". Then what? They ask why That's why I no longer reply to people that don't interest me. I don't need - or want - to explain why I won't meet them. " Me neither. I don’t have to give reasons, I never have and I won’t. Same as I won’t explain my preferences to anyone. | |||
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"A person preference should never be questioned because it's your right and entitlement to have without judgement And judging makes it discrimination No, wrong on dictionary definitions let alone anything subtler." Well given this site is based on sexual preference slightly changes things just because A person doesn't feel sexually attracted nobody would have to go into full details to explain why ?life is full of choices and people are entitled to make a valid choice without having to explain | |||
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"Let's say I am a raging racist, homophobic, ageist type but I keep it to myself and don't openly rant about all the XYZ that I 'hate'. Let's say I politely say "no thank you my preference is to not meet them". Then what? You just state in your profile 'Looking for white straight men aged between xxx' Simples
No sorry, my point is, in this example I am a terribly prejudiced racist homophobe.
How can it be 'challenged' as per the OP?
I should be encouraged to fuck people I hate? "I don't think that's the case at all. I certainly that a lot on the far left transgender discussions. It seems very common to wilfully conflate how you think about your views, and present them in society to being expected to change your actions. There's a big gap between them I feel, and it's easy to think someone is saying the latter when they mean the former. | |||
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"Preference doesn't need to be stated loudly in my opinion. You've gone to the cake shop, you looked at the cakes. You then tell the appropriate person I choose that one. There's no need to say I don't like the coffee cake or the custard slice etc before choosing the lemon meringue pie. Find what it is you want, ask if you can have a slice or not then enjoy it if you can. That’s an interesting analogy, except people aren’t different flavours according to skin tone, shape, size, sexuality, etc and cakes don’t ask you why you’re not licking the cream from their buns! I see your point though. How do you ensure that your preferences aren’t prejudiced? What one sees as prejudiced Tea other people don’t. That’s the issue. I see plenty of things on here that are apparently sexist, racist, homophobic and I’ve not thought they were at all. So unless everyone thinks the same, which they don’t, it’s impossible to ensure. Like I’ve said before it’s just common sense not to put certain things on your profile. There are quantifiable factors that make something racist, sexist, etc. You may not find them so but that doesn’t mean that they’re not. Opinion isn’t a factor in whether something is prejudiced and intent often isn’t either. " Of course opinion is a factor. If one person says something is racist/homophobic and the other one doesn’t agree it doesn’t mean the other person is correct. | |||
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"Preference doesn't need to be stated loudly in my opinion. You've gone to the cake shop, you looked at the cakes. You then tell the appropriate person I choose that one. There's no need to say I don't like the coffee cake or the custard slice etc before choosing the lemon meringue pie. Find what it is you want, ask if you can have a slice or not then enjoy it if you can. That’s an interesting analogy, except people aren’t different flavours according to skin tone, shape, size, sexuality, etc and cakes don’t ask you why you’re not licking the cream from their buns! I see your point though. How do you ensure that your preferences aren’t prejudiced? What one sees as prejudiced Tea other people don’t. That’s the issue. I see plenty of things on here that are apparently sexist, racist, homophobic and I’ve not thought they were at all. So unless everyone thinks the same, which they don’t, it’s impossible to ensure. Like I’ve said before it’s just common sense not to put certain things on your profile. There are quantifiable factors that make something racist, sexist, etc. You may not find them so but that doesn’t mean that they’re not. Opinion isn’t a factor in whether something is prejudiced and intent often isn’t either. Of course opinion is a factor. If one person says something is racist/homophobic and the other one doesn’t agree it doesn’t mean the other person is correct. " Why not? | |||
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"Preference doesn't need to be stated loudly in my opinion. You've gone to the cake shop, you looked at the cakes. You then tell the appropriate person I choose that one. There's no need to say I don't like the coffee cake or the custard slice etc before choosing the lemon meringue pie. Find what it is you want, ask if you can have a slice or not then enjoy it if you can. Very well put. This is how I see it too. "Spot on I agree too | |||
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"Preference doesn't need to be stated loudly in my opinion. You've gone to the cake shop, you looked at the cakes. You then tell the appropriate person I choose that one. There's no need to say I don't like the coffee cake or the custard slice etc before choosing the lemon meringue pie. Find what it is you want, ask if you can have a slice or not then enjoy it if you can. That’s an interesting analogy, except people aren’t different flavours according to skin tone, shape, size, sexuality, etc and cakes don’t ask you why you’re not licking the cream from their buns! I see your point though. How do you ensure that your preferences aren’t prejudiced? What one sees as prejudiced Tea other people don’t. That’s the issue. I see plenty of things on here that are apparently sexist, racist, homophobic and I’ve not thought they were at all. So unless everyone thinks the same, which they don’t, it’s impossible to ensure. Like I’ve said before it’s just common sense not to put certain things on your profile. There are quantifiable factors that make something racist, sexist, etc. You may not find them so but that doesn’t mean that they’re not. Opinion isn’t a factor in whether something is prejudiced and intent often isn’t either. Of course opinion is a factor. If one person says something is racist/homophobic and the other one doesn’t agree it doesn’t mean the other person is correct. Why not?" What do you mean why not? | |||
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"A person preference should never be questioned because it's your right and entitlement to have without judgement And judging makes it discrimination No, wrong on dictionary definitions let alone anything subtler. Well given this site is based on sexual preference slightly changes things just because A person doesn't feel sexually attracted nobody would have to go into full details to explain why ?life is full of choices and people are entitled to make a valid choice without having to explain" No, I don't think anyone is expecting you to, it's about encouraging people to think about these things to themselves. People don't expect explanations, but the intelligence to acknowledge "choices" come from a place, and not immaculate conception is not that. | |||
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"For example. 2 men together does not turn me on at all. In fact it does quite the opposite. I’ve said this before on a thread and been accused of being homophobic. That to me is absolutely ridiculous. " I feel the same way and have been accused similarly ... but if it actually turns me off, what am I meant to do? Especially don't understand it as have lots of gay friends, no judgement anywhere, literally my sexual preference!  | |||
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"Preference doesn't need to be stated loudly in my opinion. You've gone to the cake shop, you looked at the cakes. You then tell the appropriate person I choose that one. There's no need to say I don't like the coffee cake or the custard slice etc before choosing the lemon meringue pie. Find what it is you want, ask if you can have a slice or not then enjoy it if you can. That’s an interesting analogy, except people aren’t different flavours according to skin tone, shape, size, sexuality, etc and cakes don’t ask you why you’re not licking the cream from their buns! I see your point though. How do you ensure that your preferences aren’t prejudiced? What one sees as prejudiced Tea other people don’t. That’s the issue. I see plenty of things on here that are apparently sexist, racist, homophobic and I’ve not thought they were at all. So unless everyone thinks the same, which they don’t, it’s impossible to ensure. Like I’ve said before it’s just common sense not to put certain things on your profile. There are quantifiable factors that make something racist, sexist, etc. You may not find them so but that doesn’t mean that they’re not. Opinion isn’t a factor in whether something is prejudiced and intent often isn’t either. Of course opinion is a factor. If one person says something is racist/homophobic and the other one doesn’t agree it doesn’t mean the other person is correct. Why not? What do you mean why not?" | |||
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"Preference doesn't need to be stated loudly in my opinion. You've gone to the cake shop, you looked at the cakes. You then tell the appropriate person I choose that one. There's no need to say I don't like the coffee cake or the custard slice etc before choosing the lemon meringue pie. Find what it is you want, ask if you can have a slice or not then enjoy it if you can. That’s an interesting analogy, except people aren’t different flavours according to skin tone, shape, size, sexuality, etc and cakes don’t ask you why you’re not licking the cream from their buns! I see your point though. How do you ensure that your preferences aren’t prejudiced? What one sees as prejudiced Tea other people don’t. That’s the issue. I see plenty of things on here that are apparently sexist, racist, homophobic and I’ve not thought they were at all. So unless everyone thinks the same, which they don’t, it’s impossible to ensure. Like I’ve said before it’s just common sense not to put certain things on your profile. There are quantifiable factors that make something racist, sexist, etc. You may not find them so but that doesn’t mean that they’re not. Opinion isn’t a factor in whether something is prejudiced and intent often isn’t either. Of course opinion is a factor. If one person says something is racist/homophobic and the other one doesn’t agree it doesn’t mean the other person is correct. Why not? What do you mean why not? "Don’t fucking wind me up on purpose  . I don’t need help! | |||
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"For example. 2 men together does not turn me on at all. In fact it does quite the opposite. I’ve said this before on a thread and been accused of being homophobic. That to me is absolutely ridiculous. Not being aroused by it is preference but if you’re meeting a single guy, why does it matter if he’s had sex with a man? You don’t need to be aroused by his past, just as he doesn’t yours. But why does it matter if some people don’t want to meet bi men? Whatever their reason. I haven’t met someone because of a woman they’ve met in the past. My choice!" Indeed it is. Personally I want to live my life without prejudice, being the best person that I can be and respectful to others, irrespective of creed, colour, gender or sexuality. I try to understand why I like certain things or people and if it’s based on prejudice, work on that. I don’t see ‘I like what I like, so there’ as a positive trait as it closes us off from each other | |||
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"Preference doesn't need to be stated loudly in my opinion. You've gone to the cake shop, you looked at the cakes. You then tell the appropriate person I choose that one. There's no need to say I don't like the coffee cake or the custard slice etc before choosing the lemon meringue pie. Find what it is you want, ask if you can have a slice or not then enjoy it if you can. That’s an interesting analogy, except people aren’t different flavours according to skin tone, shape, size, sexuality, etc and cakes don’t ask you why you’re not licking the cream from their buns! I see your point though. How do you ensure that your preferences aren’t prejudiced? What one sees as prejudiced Tea other people don’t. That’s the issue. I see plenty of things on here that are apparently sexist, racist, homophobic and I’ve not thought they were at all. So unless everyone thinks the same, which they don’t, it’s impossible to ensure. Like I’ve said before it’s just common sense not to put certain things on your profile. There are quantifiable factors that make something racist, sexist, etc. You may not find them so but that doesn’t mean that they’re not. Opinion isn’t a factor in whether something is prejudiced and intent often isn’t either. Of course opinion is a factor. If one person says something is racist/homophobic and the other one doesn’t agree it doesn’t mean the other person is correct. Why not? What do you mean why not?
Don’t fucking wind me up on purpose . I don’t need help!" | |||
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"A person preference should never be questioned because it's your right and entitlement to have without judgement And judging makes it discrimination No, wrong on dictionary definitions let alone anything subtler. Well given this site is based on sexual preference slightly changes things just because A person doesn't feel sexually attracted nobody would have to go into full details to explain why ?life is full of choices and people are entitled to make a valid choice without having to explain No, I don't think anyone is expecting you to, it's about encouraging people to think about these things to themselves. People don't expect explanations, but the intelligence to acknowledge "choices" come from a place, and not immaculate conception is not that." Exactly | |||
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"I know I'm not very good at these things. But I know what I like when I see it. If I don't want a BBC it's not because it's black it's because it's too f***ing big "What about the man it's attached to? | |||
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"Let's say I am a raging racist, homophobic, ageist type but I keep it to myself and don't openly rant about all the XYZ that I 'hate'. Let's say I politely say "no thank you my preference is to not meet them". Then what? They ask why That's why I no longer reply to people that don't interest me. I don't need - or want - to explain why I won't meet them. " I agree with this. Preferences are complicated and while it is good to examine why we have the preferences we do, you're unlikely to change them quickly regardless. I think it's usually better not to give reasons for why. Often shouting from the rooftops that you won't meet a certain demographic is not only a bit uncouth but it helps to legitimise the behaviour of those who actually are doing the same for phobic reasons. | |||
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"For example. 2 men together does not turn me on at all. In fact it does quite the opposite. I’ve said this before on a thread and been accused of being homophobic. That to me is absolutely ridiculous. Not being aroused by it is preference but if you’re meeting a single guy, why does it matter if he’s had sex with a man? You don’t need to be aroused by his past, just as he doesn’t yours. But why does it matter if some people don’t want to meet bi men? Whatever their reason. I haven’t met someone because of a woman they’ve met in the past. My choice! Indeed it is. Personally I want to live my life without prejudice, being the best person that I can be and respectful to others, irrespective of creed, colour, gender or sexuality. I try to understand why I like certain things or people and if it’s based on prejudice, work on that. I don’t see ‘I like what I like, so there’ as a positive trait as it closes us off from each other" No. Not wanting to give your body to someone for whatever reason is not being disrespectful to anyone. | |||
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"For example. 2 men together does not turn me on at all. In fact it does quite the opposite. I’ve said this before on a thread and been accused of being homophobic. That to me is absolutely ridiculous. I feel the same way and have been accused similarly ... but if it actually turns me off, what am I meant to do? Especially don't understand it as have lots of gay friends, no judgement anywhere, literally my sexual preference! "I would suggest it's appropriate to acknowledge, if only, and especially, to yourself, that you have a limit to the level of homosexuality you are comfortable with associating with in some ways. It's those sentences like "literally my sexual preference!" that get me on edge. I'm down as bi-curious, but if it's more comfortable to point these words at myself rather than anyone else I know I have some levels of homophobia inside myself, and the imagery of direct gay sex I generally find really off putting, especially when mixed with extremes of gay stereotypes, camp etc. I could make some broadly similar comparisons to race too. I'm not squeaky clean in these areas, due to my upbringing, views from friends, family, media... I see no reason that they'll ever massively change, and they don't need to. It's just healthy to think about them and acknowledge them as real. | |||
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"For example. 2 men together does not turn me on at all. In fact it does quite the opposite. I’ve said this before on a thread and been accused of being homophobic. That to me is absolutely ridiculous. I feel the same way and have been accused similarly ... but if it actually turns me off, what am I meant to do? Especially don't understand it as have lots of gay friends, no judgement anywhere, literally my sexual preference!
I would suggest it's appropriate to acknowledge, if only, and especially, to yourself, that you have a limit to the level of homosexuality you are comfortable with associating with in some ways. It's those sentences like "literally my sexual preference!" that get me on edge.
I'm down as bi-curious, but if it's more comfortable to point these words at myself rather than anyone else I know I have some levels of homophobia inside myself, and the imagery of direct gay sex I generally find really off putting, especially when mixed with extremes of gay stereotypes, camp etc. I could make some broadly similar comparisons to race too. I'm not squeaky clean in these areas, due to my upbringing, views from friends, family, media... I see no reason that they'll ever massively change, and they don't need to. It's just healthy to think about them and acknowledge them as real."So are you saying if a woman doesn’t get turned on by two men together there is some level of homophobia? | |||
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"Preference doesn't need to be stated loudly in my opinion. You've gone to the cake shop, you looked at the cakes. You then tell the appropriate person I choose that one. There's no need to say I don't like the coffee cake or the custard slice etc before choosing the lemon meringue pie. Find what it is you want, ask if you can have a slice or not then enjoy it if you can. That’s an interesting analogy, except people aren’t different flavours according to skin tone, shape, size, sexuality, etc and cakes don’t ask you why you’re not licking the cream from their buns! I see your point though. How do you ensure that your preferences aren’t prejudiced? What one sees as prejudiced Tea other people don’t. That’s the issue. I see plenty of things on here that are apparently sexist, racist, homophobic and I’ve not thought they were at all. So unless everyone thinks the same, which they don’t, it’s impossible to ensure. Like I’ve said before it’s just common sense not to put certain things on your profile. There are quantifiable factors that make something racist, sexist, etc. You may not find them so but that doesn’t mean that they’re not. Opinion isn’t a factor in whether something is prejudiced and intent often isn’t either. Of course opinion is a factor. If one person says something is racist/homophobic and the other one doesn’t agree it doesn’t mean the other person is correct. " Often it does. Phobic attitudes are often ingrained and don’t come from a place of malice, they’re learnt behaviours and attitudes but that doesn’t mean that they’re not offensive or phobic. If a black person tells you that you’ve said something racist, would you disagree, simply because you didn’t intend it? Intent is rarely the point of the issue. It’s quite arrogant to assume that we’re always right, especially on sensitive issues for a person | |||
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"Don't think there is an answer to this and it will depend on where you stand on the issues of 'implicit bias', 'privilege' and 'lived experience'. But consider two forum threads (this is a thought experiment): 'What is your preference for hair colour?' 'What is your preference for skin colour?' Which thread is going to cause more offence? Why? On the surface they are talking asking the same question - a preference on a colour of an aspect of a person. Should we be able to have any 'preference' type thread or just not bother with any of them? And where do fetishes fit in? (using the fetish definition of only X can get me sexually aroused). More questions than answers here I'm afraid." See yes I think this is a perfect illustration. Ginger blokes notwithstanding and when you take away the cultural stigma, the risk of accusations etc., (I think) people would be so so much more likely to have a think about why they prefer blonds over brunettes etc. They'll be comfortable trying to think of reasons and justifications, because it feels harmless. But when it's at risk of bridging into issues of a sensitive nature, the drawbridge flies up in seconds, and the terms of engagement that were obvious when it was about a harmless subject are typically now denied in the first place. | |||
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"Preference doesn't need to be stated loudly in my opinion. You've gone to the cake shop, you looked at the cakes. You then tell the appropriate person I choose that one. There's no need to say I don't like the coffee cake or the custard slice etc before choosing the lemon meringue pie. Find what it is you want, ask if you can have a slice or not then enjoy it if you can. That’s an interesting analogy, except people aren’t different flavours according to skin tone, shape, size, sexuality, etc and cakes don’t ask you why you’re not licking the cream from their buns! I see your point though. How do you ensure that your preferences aren’t prejudiced? What one sees as prejudiced Tea other people don’t. That’s the issue. I see plenty of things on here that are apparently sexist, racist, homophobic and I’ve not thought they were at all. So unless everyone thinks the same, which they don’t, it’s impossible to ensure. Like I’ve said before it’s just common sense not to put certain things on your profile. There are quantifiable factors that make something racist, sexist, etc. You may not find them so but that doesn’t mean that they’re not. Opinion isn’t a factor in whether something is prejudiced and intent often isn’t either. Of course opinion is a factor. If one person says something is racist/homophobic and the other one doesn’t agree it doesn’t mean the other person is correct. Often it does. Phobic attitudes are often ingrained and don’t come from a place of malice, they’re learnt behaviours and attitudes but that doesn’t mean that they’re not offensive or phobic. If a black person tells you that you’ve said something racist, would you disagree, simply because you didn’t intend it? Intent is rarely the point of the issue. It’s quite arrogant to assume that we’re always right, especially on sensitive issues for a person " Yes it is arrogant to assume we’re always right. Which was exactly my point. | |||
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"For example. 2 men together does not turn me on at all. In fact it does quite the opposite. I’ve said this before on a thread and been accused of being homophobic. That to me is absolutely ridiculous. Not being aroused by it is preference but if you’re meeting a single guy, why does it matter if he’s had sex with a man? You don’t need to be aroused by his past, just as he doesn’t yours. But why does it matter if some people don’t want to meet bi men? Whatever their reason. I haven’t met someone because of a woman they’ve met in the past. My choice! Indeed it is. Personally I want to live my life without prejudice, being the best person that I can be and respectful to others, irrespective of creed, colour, gender or sexuality. I try to understand why I like certain things or people and if it’s based on prejudice, work on that. I don’t see ‘I like what I like, so there’ as a positive trait as it closes us off from each other No. Not wanting to give your body to someone for whatever reason is not being disrespectful to anyone. " What you choose to do with your body is entirely your choice but your reasons for doing so, that’s the key point. | |||
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"Preference doesn't need to be stated loudly in my opinion. You've gone to the cake shop, you looked at the cakes. You then tell the appropriate person I choose that one. There's no need to say I don't like the coffee cake or the custard slice etc before choosing the lemon meringue pie. Find what it is you want, ask if you can have a slice or not then enjoy it if you can. That’s an interesting analogy, except people aren’t different flavours according to skin tone, shape, size, sexuality, etc and cakes don’t ask you why you’re not licking the cream from their buns! I see your point though. How do you ensure that your preferences aren’t prejudiced? What one sees as prejudiced Tea other people don’t. That’s the issue. I see plenty of things on here that are apparently sexist, racist, homophobic and I’ve not thought they were at all. So unless everyone thinks the same, which they don’t, it’s impossible to ensure. Like I’ve said before it’s just common sense not to put certain things on your profile. There are quantifiable factors that make something racist, sexist, etc. You may not find them so but that doesn’t mean that they’re not. Opinion isn’t a factor in whether something is prejudiced and intent often isn’t either. Of course opinion is a factor. If one person says something is racist/homophobic and the other one doesn’t agree it doesn’t mean the other person is correct. Often it does. Phobic attitudes are often ingrained and don’t come from a place of malice, they’re learnt behaviours and attitudes but that doesn’t mean that they’re not offensive or phobic. If a black person tells you that you’ve said something racist, would you disagree, simply because you didn’t intend it? Intent is rarely the point of the issue. It’s quite arrogant to assume that we’re always right, especially on sensitive issues for a person Yes it is arrogant to assume we’re always right. Which was exactly my point. " Was it? I thought your point was that you don’t need to sleep with people you don’t want to? | |||
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"For example. 2 men together does not turn me on at all. In fact it does quite the opposite. I’ve said this before on a thread and been accused of being homophobic. That to me is absolutely ridiculous. I feel the same way and have been accused similarly ... but if it actually turns me off, what am I meant to do? Especially don't understand it as have lots of gay friends, no judgement anywhere, literally my sexual preference!
I would suggest it's appropriate to acknowledge, if only, and especially, to yourself, that you have a limit to the level of homosexuality you are comfortable with associating with in some ways. It's those sentences like "literally my sexual preference!" that get me on edge.
I'm down as bi-curious, but if it's more comfortable to point these words at myself rather than anyone else I know I have some levels of homophobia inside myself, and the imagery of direct gay sex I generally find really off putting, especially when mixed with extremes of gay stereotypes, camp etc. I could make some broadly similar comparisons to race too. I'm not squeaky clean in these areas, due to my upbringing, views from friends, family, media... I see no reason that they'll ever massively change, and they don't need to. It's just healthy to think about them and acknowledge them as real.
So are you saying if a woman doesn’t get turned on by two men together there is some level of homophobia? "No, not at all. Just like not being turned on my accountancy doesn't make you annountantphobic. Anything is allowed to be "Not applicable". Overtly negative feelings though, that's where things come in, and I hope it's clear I'm going to great lengths to put myself in the spotlight for this rather than anyone else. I DO acknowledge I have some small part of me that has homophobic feelings, as well as racially based ones. I try to ensure they play no outward part in my life whatsoever, but I acknowledge them. | |||
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"I know I'm not very good at these things. But I know what I like when I see it. If I don't want a BBC it's not because it's black it's because it's too f***ing big
What about the man it's attached to?"As we're supposed to be meeting for sex,that's irrelevant. Go on,call me racist  | |||
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"For example. 2 men together does not turn me on at all. In fact it does quite the opposite. I’ve said this before on a thread and been accused of being homophobic. That to me is absolutely ridiculous. I feel the same way and have been accused similarly ... but if it actually turns me off, what am I meant to do? Especially don't understand it as have lots of gay friends, no judgement anywhere, literally my sexual preference! "Out of curiosity, if you meet men in person and not on here where its listed, do you ask before engaging with them sexually/romantically? At what point do you bring it up? | |||
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"Preference doesn't need to be stated loudly in my opinion. You've gone to the cake shop, you looked at the cakes. You then tell the appropriate person I choose that one. There's no need to say I don't like the coffee cake or the custard slice etc before choosing the lemon meringue pie. Find what it is you want, ask if you can have a slice or not then enjoy it if you can. That’s an interesting analogy, except people aren’t different flavours according to skin tone, shape, size, sexuality, etc and cakes don’t ask you why you’re not licking the cream from their buns! I see your point though. How do you ensure that your preferences aren’t prejudiced? What one sees as prejudiced Tea other people don’t. That’s the issue. I see plenty of things on here that are apparently sexist, racist, homophobic and I’ve not thought they were at all. So unless everyone thinks the same, which they don’t, it’s impossible to ensure. Like I’ve said before it’s just common sense not to put certain things on your profile. There are quantifiable factors that make something racist, sexist, etc. You may not find them so but that doesn’t mean that they’re not. Opinion isn’t a factor in whether something is prejudiced and intent often isn’t either. Of course opinion is a factor. If one person says something is racist/homophobic and the other one doesn’t agree it doesn’t mean the other person is correct. Often it does. Phobic attitudes are often ingrained and don’t come from a place of malice, they’re learnt behaviours and attitudes but that doesn’t mean that they’re not offensive or phobic. If a black person tells you that you’ve said something racist, would you disagree, simply because you didn’t intend it? Intent is rarely the point of the issue. It’s quite arrogant to assume that we’re always right, especially on sensitive issues for a person Yes it is arrogant to assume we’re always right. Which was exactly my point. Was it? I thought your point was that you don’t need to sleep with people you don’t want to?" That too but if you read my last paragraph yes that was my point. May I ask a question? Why do people’s personal reasons for not wanting to have sex with someone bother you? You’ve done a few of these posts and your responses seems to be along the lines of we all need to have a good hard look at ourselves as to why we don’t want to meet people. I don’t need to have a look at myself. I’m happy with my morals and my reasons and my preferences. | |||
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"Whilst on the subject of preference their is only the option for black or white even when ticking the boxes after loading a new image where would this fit in if neither" On here? | |||
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"Preference doesn't need to be stated loudly in my opinion. You've gone to the cake shop, you looked at the cakes. You then tell the appropriate person I choose that one. There's no need to say I don't like the coffee cake or the custard slice etc before choosing the lemon meringue pie. Find what it is you want, ask if you can have a slice or not then enjoy it if you can. That’s an interesting analogy, except people aren’t different flavours according to skin tone, shape, size, sexuality, etc and cakes don’t ask you why you’re not licking the cream from their buns! I see your point though. How do you ensure that your preferences aren’t prejudiced? " Well I hadn't eaten lunch at that point hence the analogy
But why should we question other people's preferences? If someone said they didn't want to meet me I may feel a bit disappointed. But I'm not going to ask them is it because I'm fat or is it because I'm ginger. I accept there will be some who like me and others who don't.
Now I believe everyone will have some from of prejudice. I don't like redheads because my ex wife was one and I can't see past through it for example. But why should they divulge that information to a stranger? We shouldn't say I don't like xyz it makes people feel crappy. I just believe we should go about our business without having to justify ourselves. | |||
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"For example. 2 men together does not turn me on at all. In fact it does quite the opposite. I’ve said this before on a thread and been accused of being homophobic. That to me is absolutely ridiculous. Not being aroused by it is preference but if you’re meeting a single guy, why does it matter if he’s had sex with a man? You don’t need to be aroused by his past, just as he doesn’t yours. But why does it matter if some people don’t want to meet bi men? Whatever their reason. I haven’t met someone because of a woman they’ve met in the past. My choice! Indeed it is. Personally I want to live my life without prejudice, being the best person that I can be and respectful to others, irrespective of creed, colour, gender or sexuality. I try to understand why I like certain things or people and if it’s based on prejudice, work on that. I don’t see ‘I like what I like, so there’ as a positive trait as it closes us off from each other No. Not wanting to give your body to someone for whatever reason is not being disrespectful to anyone. What you choose to do with your body is entirely your choice but your reasons for doing so, that’s the key point. " And the key stumbling block is whether someone is entitled to know why. Anything that can be interpreted as discriminatory will cause offence if either it is outright offensive or could be construed as offensive. The majority of people will have their own thresholds on what is deemed offensive. "I only fuck natural blondes" will be a harmless enough statement to some but will offend others as it excludes anyone who isn't of Nordic descent. You can't police peoples thoughts, you can encourage people to be more open minded but cannot compel them to do something they do not want to do. My opinion is like my cock. Few people want it rammed down their throat but they know I have one and may prefer I kept it to myself. (p.s. if you are one of the few who might be interested in either my opinions or cock, the message privately button is just there...) | |||
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"Let's say I am a raging racist, homophobic, ageist type but I keep it to myself and don't openly rant about all the XYZ that I 'hate'. Let's say I politely say "no thank you my preference is to not meet them". Then what? You just state in your profile 'Looking for white straight men aged between xxx' Simples
No sorry, my point is, in this example I am a terribly prejudiced racist homophobe.
How can it be 'challenged' as per the OP?
I should be encouraged to fuck people I hate? "It shouldnt be challenged. The problem now days is everyone feels its their right to question/challenge people on their beliefs or morals. | |||
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"Whilst on the subject of preference their is only the option for black or white even when ticking the boxes after loading a new image where would this fit in if neither On here? " Yes putting the image in category | |||
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"Talk about trying to make something out of nothing, preferences are attraction, we can’t help who we are attracted to, in the same we can’t help what we find funny, if you’re not attracted to someone then that’s the end of it, it’s called free will, we choose who we sleep with it’s our body. It’s really not complicated. " 100%
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"This word is bandied around a lot and in of itself, it isn’t a problem. However, when preferences are used to conceal prejudices and discriminatory behaviours, is that still acceptable? How do we distinguish between what is acceptable and not acceptable or is a person’s preference sacred and not to be questioned? How do we ensure that we’re keeping ourselves honest if no one is able to challenge them? Thoughts folks " When your preferences (sexual or otherwise) affect or influence how you treat others is, in my opinion, when you have a problem with prejudice. Everyone should be treated on their own merits, however as we can all suffer from both conscious and subconscious bias this isn’t always the case. Another consideration, especially on Fab, is that people will interpret text in different ways leading to a difference in opinion between what the writer meant and reader’s understanding. We can be too quick to brand the bigot pitchfork instead of trying to appreciate the situation. | |||
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"Preference doesn't need to be stated loudly in my opinion. You've gone to the cake shop, you looked at the cakes. You then tell the appropriate person I choose that one. There's no need to say I don't like the coffee cake or the custard slice etc before choosing the lemon meringue pie. Find what it is you want, ask if you can have a slice or not then enjoy it if you can. That’s an interesting analogy, except people aren’t different flavours according to skin tone, shape, size, sexuality, etc and cakes don’t ask you why you’re not licking the cream from their buns! I see your point though. How do you ensure that your preferences aren’t prejudiced? Well I hadn't eaten lunch at that point hence the analogy
But why should we question other people's preferences? If someone said they didn't want to meet me I may feel a bit disappointed. But I'm not going to ask them is it because I'm fat or is it because I'm ginger. I accept there will be some who like me and others who don't.
Now I believe everyone will have some from of prejudice. I don't like redheads because my ex wife was one and I can't see past through it for example. But why should they divulge that information to a stranger? We shouldn't say I don't like xyz it makes people feel crappy. I just believe we should go about our business without having to justify ourselves. "Oh they absolutely shouldn't by default. No one is saying they should. For me, it's mostly just the overt denial that there is any reason from people around here at times, that screams to me there IS more to it and their explicit denial deserves interrogation. It's a technicality and maybe I need to think about why it has me coming back and back in these conversations. | |||
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"Preference doesn't need to be stated loudly in my opinion. You've gone to the cake shop, you looked at the cakes. You then tell the appropriate person I choose that one. There's no need to say I don't like the coffee cake or the custard slice etc before choosing the lemon meringue pie. Find what it is you want, ask if you can have a slice or not then enjoy it if you can. That’s an interesting analogy, except people aren’t different flavours according to skin tone, shape, size, sexuality, etc and cakes don’t ask you why you’re not licking the cream from their buns! I see your point though. How do you ensure that your preferences aren’t prejudiced? What one sees as prejudiced Tea other people don’t. That’s the issue. I see plenty of things on here that are apparently sexist, racist, homophobic and I’ve not thought they were at all. So unless everyone thinks the same, which they don’t, it’s impossible to ensure. Like I’ve said before it’s just common sense not to put certain things on your profile. There are quantifiable factors that make something racist, sexist, etc. You may not find them so but that doesn’t mean that they’re not. Opinion isn’t a factor in whether something is prejudiced and intent often isn’t either. Of course opinion is a factor. If one person says something is racist/homophobic and the other one doesn’t agree it doesn’t mean the other person is correct. Often it does. Phobic attitudes are often ingrained and don’t come from a place of malice, they’re learnt behaviours and attitudes but that doesn’t mean that they’re not offensive or phobic. If a black person tells you that you’ve said something racist, would you disagree, simply because you didn’t intend it? Intent is rarely the point of the issue. It’s quite arrogant to assume that we’re always right, especially on sensitive issues for a person Yes it is arrogant to assume we’re always right. Which was exactly my point. Was it? I thought your point was that you don’t need to sleep with people you don’t want to? That too but if you read my last paragraph yes that was my point. May I ask a question? Why do people’s personal reasons for not wanting to have sex with someone bother you? You’ve done a few of these posts and your responses seems to be along the lines of we all need to have a good hard look at ourselves as to why we don’t want to meet people. I don’t need to have a look at myself. I’m happy with my morals and my reasons and my preferences. " That’s a good question. It doesn’t escape me that we always end up on the opposite ends of these discussions as well! I’d hope that you’d know by now that I’m not attacking you. In all honesty, I think that people have a duty of care to themselves and to others, and that for some people (not all), preferences has become the hiding place for all of the nasty judgements and prejudices that people harbour. It seems that claiming a sacred space for that has become acceptable and I question whether that’s a good thing or a morally acceptable thing. Me bring me, I challenge that thought process | |||
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"When your preferences (sexual or otherwise) affect or influence how you treat others is, in my opinion, when you have a problem with prejudice. Everyone should be treated on their own merits, however as we can all suffer from both conscious and subconscious bias this isn’t always the case. Another consideration, especially on Fab, is that people will interpret text in different ways leading to a difference in opinion between what the writer meant and reader’s understanding. We can be too quick to brand the bigot pitchfork instead of trying to appreciate the situation." Very well put. | |||
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"I know I'm not very good at these things. But I know what I like when I see it. If I don't want a BBC it's not because it's black it's because it's too f***ing big
What about the man it's attached to?
As we're supposed to be meeting for sex,that's irrelevant. Go on,call me racist "I say hurrah for us blokes with smaller tallywhackers | |||
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"Whilst on the subject of preference their is only the option for black or white even when ticking the boxes after loading a new image where would this fit in if neither On here? Yes putting the image in category "Oh right. It must be different for men and women. We have options for black female and asian female but not for any other ethnicity. Not that I would want to choose white female. Feels a bit weird. | |||
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"Preference doesn't need to be stated loudly in my opinion. You've gone to the cake shop, you looked at the cakes. You then tell the appropriate person I choose that one. There's no need to say I don't like the coffee cake or the custard slice etc before choosing the lemon meringue pie. Find what it is you want, ask if you can have a slice or not then enjoy it if you can. That’s an interesting analogy, except people aren’t different flavours according to skin tone, shape, size, sexuality, etc and cakes don’t ask you why you’re not licking the cream from their buns! I see your point though. How do you ensure that your preferences aren’t prejudiced? What one sees as prejudiced Tea other people don’t. That’s the issue. I see plenty of things on here that are apparently sexist, racist, homophobic and I’ve not thought they were at all. So unless everyone thinks the same, which they don’t, it’s impossible to ensure. Like I’ve said before it’s just common sense not to put certain things on your profile. There are quantifiable factors that make something racist, sexist, etc. You may not find them so but that doesn’t mean that they’re not. Opinion isn’t a factor in whether something is prejudiced and intent often isn’t either. Of course opinion is a factor. If one person says something is racist/homophobic and the other one doesn’t agree it doesn’t mean the other person is correct. Often it does. Phobic attitudes are often ingrained and don’t come from a place of malice, they’re learnt behaviours and attitudes but that doesn’t mean that they’re not offensive or phobic. If a black person tells you that you’ve said something racist, would you disagree, simply because you didn’t intend it? Intent is rarely the point of the issue. It’s quite arrogant to assume that we’re always right, especially on sensitive issues for a person Yes it is arrogant to assume we’re always right. Which was exactly my point. Was it? I thought your point was that you don’t need to sleep with people you don’t want to? That too but if you read my last paragraph yes that was my point. May I ask a question? Why do people’s personal reasons for not wanting to have sex with someone bother you? You’ve done a few of these posts and your responses seems to be along the lines of we all need to have a good hard look at ourselves as to why we don’t want to meet people. I don’t need to have a look at myself. I’m happy with my morals and my reasons and my preferences. That’s a good question. It doesn’t escape me that we always end up on the opposite ends of these discussions as well! I’d hope that you’d know by now that I’m not attacking you. In all honesty, I think that people have a duty of care to themselves and to others, and that for some people (not all), preferences has become the hiding place for all of the nasty judgements and prejudices that people harbour. It seems that claiming a sacred space for that has become acceptable and I question whether that’s a good thing or a morally acceptable thing. Me bring me, I challenge that thought process " Fair enough. And yes we do. We rarely agree on anything and probably never will . But likewise. No attacks from here. | |||
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"Preference doesn't need to be stated loudly in my opinion. You've gone to the cake shop, you looked at the cakes. You then tell the appropriate person I choose that one. There's no need to say I don't like the coffee cake or the custard slice etc before choosing the lemon meringue pie. Find what it is you want, ask if you can have a slice or not then enjoy it if you can. That’s an interesting analogy, except people aren’t different flavours according to skin tone, shape, size, sexuality, etc and cakes don’t ask you why you’re not licking the cream from their buns! I see your point though. How do you ensure that your preferences aren’t prejudiced? What one sees as prejudiced Tea other people don’t. That’s the issue. I see plenty of things on here that are apparently sexist, racist, homophobic and I’ve not thought they were at all. So unless everyone thinks the same, which they don’t, it’s impossible to ensure. Like I’ve said before it’s just common sense not to put certain things on your profile. There are quantifiable factors that make something racist, sexist, etc. You may not find them so but that doesn’t mean that they’re not. Opinion isn’t a factor in whether something is prejudiced and intent often isn’t either. Of course opinion is a factor. If one person says something is racist/homophobic and the other one doesn’t agree it doesn’t mean the other person is correct. Often it does. Phobic attitudes are often ingrained and don’t come from a place of malice, they’re learnt behaviours and attitudes but that doesn’t mean that they’re not offensive or phobic. If a black person tells you that you’ve said something racist, would you disagree, simply because you didn’t intend it? Intent is rarely the point of the issue. It’s quite arrogant to assume that we’re always right, especially on sensitive issues for a person Yes it is arrogant to assume we’re always right. Which was exactly my point. Was it? I thought your point was that you don’t need to sleep with people you don’t want to? That too but if you read my last paragraph yes that was my point. May I ask a question? Why do people’s personal reasons for not wanting to have sex with someone bother you? You’ve done a few of these posts and your responses seems to be along the lines of we all need to have a good hard look at ourselves as to why we don’t want to meet people. I don’t need to have a look at myself. I’m happy with my morals and my reasons and my preferences. That’s a good question. It doesn’t escape me that we always end up on the opposite ends of these discussions as well! I’d hope that you’d know by now that I’m not attacking you. In all honesty, I think that people have a duty of care to themselves and to others, and that for some people (not all), preferences has become the hiding place for all of the nasty judgements and prejudices that people harbour. It seems that claiming a sacred space for that has become acceptable and I question whether that’s a good thing or a morally acceptable thing. Me bring me, I challenge that thought process Fair enough. And yes we do. We rarely agree on anything and probably never will . But likewise. No attacks from here. "Aww you guys  | |||
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"Preference doesn't need to be stated loudly in my opinion. You've gone to the cake shop, you looked at the cakes. You then tell the appropriate person I choose that one. There's no need to say I don't like the coffee cake or the custard slice etc before choosing the lemon meringue pie. Find what it is you want, ask if you can have a slice or not then enjoy it if you can. That’s an interesting analogy, except people aren’t different flavours according to skin tone, shape, size, sexuality, etc and cakes don’t ask you why you’re not licking the cream from their buns! I see your point though. How do you ensure that your preferences aren’t prejudiced? Well I hadn't eaten lunch at that point hence the analogy
But why should we question other people's preferences? If someone said they didn't want to meet me I may feel a bit disappointed. But I'm not going to ask them is it because I'm fat or is it because I'm ginger. I accept there will be some who like me and others who don't.
Now I believe everyone will have some from of prejudice. I don't like redheads because my ex wife was one and I can't see past through it for example. But why should they divulge that information to a stranger? We shouldn't say I don't like xyz it makes people feel crappy. I just believe we should go about our business without having to justify ourselves. "That’s very fair. My question is though, how do we ensure that preferences aren’t prejudicial? | |||
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"Preference doesn't need to be stated loudly in my opinion. You've gone to the cake shop, you looked at the cakes. You then tell the appropriate person I choose that one. There's no need to say I don't like the coffee cake or the custard slice etc before choosing the lemon meringue pie. Find what it is you want, ask if you can have a slice or not then enjoy it if you can. That’s an interesting analogy, except people aren’t different flavours according to skin tone, shape, size, sexuality, etc and cakes don’t ask you why you’re not licking the cream from their buns! I see your point though. How do you ensure that your preferences aren’t prejudiced? What one sees as prejudiced Tea other people don’t. That’s the issue. I see plenty of things on here that are apparently sexist, racist, homophobic and I’ve not thought they were at all. So unless everyone thinks the same, which they don’t, it’s impossible to ensure. Like I’ve said before it’s just common sense not to put certain things on your profile. There are quantifiable factors that make something racist, sexist, etc. You may not find them so but that doesn’t mean that they’re not. Opinion isn’t a factor in whether something is prejudiced and intent often isn’t either. Of course opinion is a factor. If one person says something is racist/homophobic and the other one doesn’t agree it doesn’t mean the other person is correct. Often it does. Phobic attitudes are often ingrained and don’t come from a place of malice, they’re learnt behaviours and attitudes but that doesn’t mean that they’re not offensive or phobic. If a black person tells you that you’ve said something racist, would you disagree, simply because you didn’t intend it? Intent is rarely the point of the issue. It’s quite arrogant to assume that we’re always right, especially on sensitive issues for a person Yes it is arrogant to assume we’re always right. Which was exactly my point. Was it? I thought your point was that you don’t need to sleep with people you don’t want to? That too but if you read my last paragraph yes that was my point. May I ask a question? Why do people’s personal reasons for not wanting to have sex with someone bother you? You’ve done a few of these posts and your responses seems to be along the lines of we all need to have a good hard look at ourselves as to why we don’t want to meet people. I don’t need to have a look at myself. I’m happy with my morals and my reasons and my preferences. That’s a good question. It doesn’t escape me that we always end up on the opposite ends of these discussions as well! I’d hope that you’d know by now that I’m not attacking you. In all honesty, I think that people have a duty of care to themselves and to others, and that for some people (not all), preferences has become the hiding place for all of the nasty judgements and prejudices that people harbour. It seems that claiming a sacred space for that has become acceptable and I question whether that’s a good thing or a morally acceptable thing. Me bring me, I challenge that thought process Fair enough. And yes we do. We rarely agree on anything and probably never will . But likewise. No attacks from here.
Aww you guys ". He wants me really. That’s what this has been about all these years I reckon | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Preference doesn't need to be stated loudly in my opinion. You've gone to the cake shop, you looked at the cakes. You then tell the appropriate person I choose that one. There's no need to say I don't like the coffee cake or the custard slice etc before choosing the lemon meringue pie. Find what it is you want, ask if you can have a slice or not then enjoy it if you can. " Perfect.  | |||
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"Preference doesn't need to be stated loudly in my opinion. You've gone to the cake shop, you looked at the cakes. You then tell the appropriate person I choose that one. There's no need to say I don't like the coffee cake or the custard slice etc before choosing the lemon meringue pie. Find what it is you want, ask if you can have a slice or not then enjoy it if you can. That’s an interesting analogy, except people aren’t different flavours according to skin tone, shape, size, sexuality, etc and cakes don’t ask you why you’re not licking the cream from their buns! I see your point though. How do you ensure that your preferences aren’t prejudiced? Well I hadn't eaten lunch at that point hence the analogy
But why should we question other people's preferences? If someone said they didn't want to meet me I may feel a bit disappointed. But I'm not going to ask them is it because I'm fat or is it because I'm ginger. I accept there will be some who like me and others who don't.
Now I believe everyone will have some from of prejudice. I don't like redheads because my ex wife was one and I can't see past through it for example. But why should they divulge that information to a stranger? We shouldn't say I don't like xyz it makes people feel crappy. I just believe we should go about our business without having to justify ourselves.
That’s very fair.
My question is though, how do we ensure that preferences aren’t prejudicial? "By respecting people's wishes | |||
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"Preference doesn't need to be stated loudly in my opinion. You've gone to the cake shop, you looked at the cakes. You then tell the appropriate person I choose that one. There's no need to say I don't like the coffee cake or the custard slice etc before choosing the lemon meringue pie. Find what it is you want, ask if you can have a slice or not then enjoy it if you can. That’s an interesting analogy, except people aren’t different flavours according to skin tone, shape, size, sexuality, etc and cakes don’t ask you why you’re not licking the cream from their buns! I see your point though. How do you ensure that your preferences aren’t prejudiced? What one sees as prejudiced Tea other people don’t. That’s the issue. I see plenty of things on here that are apparently sexist, racist, homophobic and I’ve not thought they were at all. So unless everyone thinks the same, which they don’t, it’s impossible to ensure. Like I’ve said before it’s just common sense not to put certain things on your profile. There are quantifiable factors that make something racist, sexist, etc. You may not find them so but that doesn’t mean that they’re not. Opinion isn’t a factor in whether something is prejudiced and intent often isn’t either. Of course opinion is a factor. If one person says something is racist/homophobic and the other one doesn’t agree it doesn’t mean the other person is correct. Often it does. Phobic attitudes are often ingrained and don’t come from a place of malice, they’re learnt behaviours and attitudes but that doesn’t mean that they’re not offensive or phobic. If a black person tells you that you’ve said something racist, would you disagree, simply because you didn’t intend it? Intent is rarely the point of the issue. It’s quite arrogant to assume that we’re always right, especially on sensitive issues for a person Yes it is arrogant to assume we’re always right. Which was exactly my point. Was it? I thought your point was that you don’t need to sleep with people you don’t want to? That too but if you read my last paragraph yes that was my point. May I ask a question? Why do people’s personal reasons for not wanting to have sex with someone bother you? You’ve done a few of these posts and your responses seems to be along the lines of we all need to have a good hard look at ourselves as to why we don’t want to meet people. I don’t need to have a look at myself. I’m happy with my morals and my reasons and my preferences. That’s a good question. It doesn’t escape me that we always end up on the opposite ends of these discussions as well! I’d hope that you’d know by now that I’m not attacking you. In all honesty, I think that people have a duty of care to themselves and to others, and that for some people (not all), preferences has become the hiding place for all of the nasty judgements and prejudices that people harbour. It seems that claiming a sacred space for that has become acceptable and I question whether that’s a good thing or a morally acceptable thing. Me bring me, I challenge that thought process Fair enough. And yes we do. We rarely agree on anything and probably never will . But likewise. No attacks from here.
Aww you guys "Shhhh! You’ll ruin my rep! | |||
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"Preference doesn't need to be stated loudly in my opinion. You've gone to the cake shop, you looked at the cakes. You then tell the appropriate person I choose that one. There's no need to say I don't like the coffee cake or the custard slice etc before choosing the lemon meringue pie. Find what it is you want, ask if you can have a slice or not then enjoy it if you can. That’s an interesting analogy, except people aren’t different flavours according to skin tone, shape, size, sexuality, etc and cakes don’t ask you why you’re not licking the cream from their buns! I see your point though. How do you ensure that your preferences aren’t prejudiced? What one sees as prejudiced Tea other people don’t. That’s the issue. I see plenty of things on here that are apparently sexist, racist, homophobic and I’ve not thought they were at all. So unless everyone thinks the same, which they don’t, it’s impossible to ensure. Like I’ve said before it’s just common sense not to put certain things on your profile. There are quantifiable factors that make something racist, sexist, etc. You may not find them so but that doesn’t mean that they’re not. Opinion isn’t a factor in whether something is prejudiced and intent often isn’t either. Of course opinion is a factor. If one person says something is racist/homophobic and the other one doesn’t agree it doesn’t mean the other person is correct. Often it does. Phobic attitudes are often ingrained and don’t come from a place of malice, they’re learnt behaviours and attitudes but that doesn’t mean that they’re not offensive or phobic. If a black person tells you that you’ve said something racist, would you disagree, simply because you didn’t intend it? Intent is rarely the point of the issue. It’s quite arrogant to assume that we’re always right, especially on sensitive issues for a person Yes it is arrogant to assume we’re always right. Which was exactly my point. Was it? I thought your point was that you don’t need to sleep with people you don’t want to? That too but if you read my last paragraph yes that was my point. May I ask a question? Why do people’s personal reasons for not wanting to have sex with someone bother you? You’ve done a few of these posts and your responses seems to be along the lines of we all need to have a good hard look at ourselves as to why we don’t want to meet people. I don’t need to have a look at myself. I’m happy with my morals and my reasons and my preferences. That’s a good question. It doesn’t escape me that we always end up on the opposite ends of these discussions as well! I’d hope that you’d know by now that I’m not attacking you. In all honesty, I think that people have a duty of care to themselves and to others, and that for some people (not all), preferences has become the hiding place for all of the nasty judgements and prejudices that people harbour. It seems that claiming a sacred space for that has become acceptable and I question whether that’s a good thing or a morally acceptable thing. Me bring me, I challenge that thought process Fair enough. And yes we do. We rarely agree on anything and probably never will . But likewise. No attacks from here.
Aww you guys
. He wants me really. That’s what this has been about all these years I reckon "100% I’m just butt hurt  | |||
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"I really want to read the whole thread but there's a lot of long text being quoted. Effort. " It is effort, believe me And not really worth it in the long run, either. It boils down to some people not liking what some other people say, and trying to make a mountain out of a molehill when none exists in the first place You're welcome | |||
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"Preference doesn't need to be stated loudly in my opinion. You've gone to the cake shop, you looked at the cakes. You then tell the appropriate person I choose that one. There's no need to say I don't like the coffee cake or the custard slice etc before choosing the lemon meringue pie. Find what it is you want, ask if you can have a slice or not then enjoy it if you can. That’s an interesting analogy, except people aren’t different flavours according to skin tone, shape, size, sexuality, etc and cakes don’t ask you why you’re not licking the cream from their buns! I see your point though. How do you ensure that your preferences aren’t prejudiced? Well I hadn't eaten lunch at that point hence the analogy
But why should we question other people's preferences? If someone said they didn't want to meet me I may feel a bit disappointed. But I'm not going to ask them is it because I'm fat or is it because I'm ginger. I accept there will be some who like me and others who don't.
Now I believe everyone will have some from of prejudice. I don't like redheads because my ex wife was one and I can't see past through it for example. But why should they divulge that information to a stranger? We shouldn't say I don't like xyz it makes people feel crappy. I just believe we should go about our business without having to justify ourselves.
That’s very fair.
My question is though, how do we ensure that preferences aren’t prejudicial?
By respecting people's wishes"Please explain, I can’t see how that works regarding my comment | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Preference doesn't need to be stated loudly in my opinion. You've gone to the cake shop, you looked at the cakes. You then tell the appropriate person I choose that one. There's no need to say I don't like the coffee cake or the custard slice etc before choosing the lemon meringue pie. Find what it is you want, ask if you can have a slice or not then enjoy it if you can. That’s an interesting analogy, except people aren’t different flavours according to skin tone, shape, size, sexuality, etc and cakes don’t ask you why you’re not licking the cream from their buns! I see your point though. How do you ensure that your preferences aren’t prejudiced? What one sees as prejudiced Tea other people don’t. That’s the issue. I see plenty of things on here that are apparently sexist, racist, homophobic and I’ve not thought they were at all. So unless everyone thinks the same, which they don’t, it’s impossible to ensure. Like I’ve said before it’s just common sense not to put certain things on your profile. There are quantifiable factors that make something racist, sexist, etc. You may not find them so but that doesn’t mean that they’re not. Opinion isn’t a factor in whether something is prejudiced and intent often isn’t either. Of course opinion is a factor. If one person says something is racist/homophobic and the other one doesn’t agree it doesn’t mean the other person is correct. Often it does. Phobic attitudes are often ingrained and don’t come from a place of malice, they’re learnt behaviours and attitudes but that doesn’t mean that they’re not offensive or phobic. If a black person tells you that you’ve said something racist, would you disagree, simply because you didn’t intend it? Intent is rarely the point of the issue. It’s quite arrogant to assume that we’re always right, especially on sensitive issues for a person Yes it is arrogant to assume we’re always right. Which was exactly my point. Was it? I thought your point was that you don’t need to sleep with people you don’t want to? That too but if you read my last paragraph yes that was my point. May I ask a question? Why do people’s personal reasons for not wanting to have sex with someone bother you? You’ve done a few of these posts and your responses seems to be along the lines of we all need to have a good hard look at ourselves as to why we don’t want to meet people. I don’t need to have a look at myself. I’m happy with my morals and my reasons and my preferences. That’s a good question. It doesn’t escape me that we always end up on the opposite ends of these discussions as well! I’d hope that you’d know by now that I’m not attacking you. In all honesty, I think that people have a duty of care to themselves and to others, and that for some people (not all), preferences has become the hiding place for all of the nasty judgements and prejudices that people harbour. It seems that claiming a sacred space for that has become acceptable and I question whether that’s a good thing or a morally acceptable thing. Me bring me, I challenge that thought process Fair enough. And yes we do. We rarely agree on anything and probably never will . But likewise. No attacks from here.
Aww you guys
. He wants me really. That’s what this has been about all these years I reckon "It's the sexual tension Nora. You could cut it with a knife! The only way to release it is with a good argument  . | |||
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"I really want to read the whole thread but there's a lot of long text being quoted. Effort. It is effort, believe me And not really worth it in the long run, either. It boils down to some people not liking what some other people say, and trying to make a mountain out of a molehill when none exists in the first place You're welcome "It’s ok. I’m sure there’s a kiss, marry avoid thread if it’s all a bit too much for you
There’s no need to be dismissive of discussions, just because you don’t like them | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I really want to read the whole thread but there's a lot of long text being quoted. Effort. It is effort, believe me And not really worth it in the long run, either. It boils down to some people not liking what some other people say, and trying to make a mountain out of a molehill when none exists in the first place You're welcome "Ehh, this could well be the word of the many many white middle aged guys who say that there's no such thing as White Privileged, because they don't have their own private jet. People who think these sorts of issues are none starters, might want to just take the time to think more in the first place, maybe they're missing the point and have jumped to their own conclusions too quickly. | |||
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"Preference doesn't need to be stated loudly in my opinion. You've gone to the cake shop, you looked at the cakes. You then tell the appropriate person I choose that one. There's no need to say I don't like the coffee cake or the custard slice etc before choosing the lemon meringue pie. Find what it is you want, ask if you can have a slice or not then enjoy it if you can. That’s an interesting analogy, except people aren’t different flavours according to skin tone, shape, size, sexuality, etc and cakes don’t ask you why you’re not licking the cream from their buns! I see your point though. How do you ensure that your preferences aren’t prejudiced? What one sees as prejudiced Tea other people don’t. That’s the issue. I see plenty of things on here that are apparently sexist, racist, homophobic and I’ve not thought they were at all. So unless everyone thinks the same, which they don’t, it’s impossible to ensure. Like I’ve said before it’s just common sense not to put certain things on your profile. There are quantifiable factors that make something racist, sexist, etc. You may not find them so but that doesn’t mean that they’re not. Opinion isn’t a factor in whether something is prejudiced and intent often isn’t either. Of course opinion is a factor. If one person says something is racist/homophobic and the other one doesn’t agree it doesn’t mean the other person is correct. Often it does. Phobic attitudes are often ingrained and don’t come from a place of malice, they’re learnt behaviours and attitudes but that doesn’t mean that they’re not offensive or phobic. If a black person tells you that you’ve said something racist, would you disagree, simply because you didn’t intend it? Intent is rarely the point of the issue. It’s quite arrogant to assume that we’re always right, especially on sensitive issues for a person Yes it is arrogant to assume we’re always right. Which was exactly my point. Was it? I thought your point was that you don’t need to sleep with people you don’t want to? That too but if you read my last paragraph yes that was my point. May I ask a question? Why do people’s personal reasons for not wanting to have sex with someone bother you? You’ve done a few of these posts and your responses seems to be along the lines of we all need to have a good hard look at ourselves as to why we don’t want to meet people. I don’t need to have a look at myself. I’m happy with my morals and my reasons and my preferences. That’s a good question. It doesn’t escape me that we always end up on the opposite ends of these discussions as well! I’d hope that you’d know by now that I’m not attacking you. In all honesty, I think that people have a duty of care to themselves and to others, and that for some people (not all), preferences has become the hiding place for all of the nasty judgements and prejudices that people harbour. It seems that claiming a sacred space for that has become acceptable and I question whether that’s a good thing or a morally acceptable thing. Me bring me, I challenge that thought process Fair enough. And yes we do. We rarely agree on anything and probably never will . But likewise. No attacks from here.
Aww you guys
. He wants me really. That’s what this has been about all these years I reckon
It's the sexual tension Nora. You could cut it with a knife! The only way to release it is with a good argument . ". I’d love to meet his beautiful lady though. Apart from wanting to give her a medal! She’s lovely | |||
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"Finding dark skin unattractive is not racist. Its a preference. However treating people differently because of the colour of their skin is. Some people don't like gingers and that's OK. But if you assume gingers are all thieves that's not ok. Or if you feel unsafe around gingers that's also a sign for you that you might want to examine your prejudices. It doesn't mean you are a bad person. Just that your biases are out of whack Interracial porn is actually racist by design. It taps into a sense of wrongness the watcher feels watching it. It's like humiliation play in bdsm except on race and without the aftercare or context. " That’s a very good point and the essence of the discussion. How and where do these preferences come from, how are they challenged and who should challenge them? If we’re not doing it ourselves, then what’s the next step? | |||
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"I really want to read the whole thread but there's a lot of long text being quoted. Effort. It is effort, believe me And not really worth it in the long run, either. It boils down to some people not liking what some other people say, and trying to make a mountain out of a molehill when none exists in the first place You're welcome
It’s ok. I’m sure there’s a kiss, marry avoid thread if it’s all a bit too much for you
There’s no need to be dismissive of discussions, just because you don’t like them"Why not? Preferences and all that
But more seriously, what exactly are you trying to prove / achieve with this thread?
Surely the best summation came earlier with the statement that people can choose who they do or don't want to fuck? If it's a no then that's the end of the conversion, otherwise it turns into harassment | |||
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"There will always be people who scream that others preferences are prejudices, and conversely there will always be the counter-arguement that prejudices are just preferences. We're all individuals with different paths of learning and life experiences. In my opinion it's generally the so-called "liberal" people that are anything but...constantly telling people that they should change their way of thinking and examine their motives, whilst simultaneously insisting that they should be allowed to live exactly as they want to. Personally, if I think someone is a cunt, it's because of their cuntish behaviour, and not anything to do with their gender, sexual orientation, skin colour, social class etc....cunts come from all walks of life "Meh, I'm a self confessed raving, millenial snowflake and I've had times in my life I've been uncomfortably confronted by my own prejudices. It's never a nice experience and I look back on moments in my life and cringe at my own ignorance but it's rare to know the best way to handle certain situations or topics without knowing much about them and learning often involves blundering through a bit. It's not an admission of failure to reassess our opinions based on acquiring new information. In fact I'd argue its a failure not to. Doesn't mean your conclusion will necessarily change. Sometimes it might reaffirm it. | |||
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"There will always be people who scream that others preferences are prejudices, and conversely there will always be the counter-arguement that prejudices are just preferences. We're all individuals with different paths of learning and life experiences. In my opinion it's generally the so-called "liberal" people that are anything but...constantly telling people that they should change their way of thinking and examine their motives, whilst simultaneously insisting that they should be allowed to live exactly as they want to. Personally, if I think someone is a cunt, it's because of their cuntish behaviour, and not anything to do with their gender, sexual orientation, skin colour, social class etc....cunts come from all walks of life "Ouch! Right in the liberals! I think that that’s a valid point, a hypocrite is a hypocrite, irrespective of politics though. I don’t think that I’ve been telling people how to live, rather asking the question as to how we remain honest | |||
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"I really want to read the whole thread but there's a lot of long text being quoted. Effort. It is effort, believe me And not really worth it in the long run, either. It boils down to some people not liking what some other people say, and trying to make a mountain out of a molehill when none exists in the first place You're welcome
Ehh, this could well be the word of the many many white middle aged guys who say that there's no such thing as White Privileged, because they don't have their own private jet. People who think these sorts of issues are none starters, might want to just take the time to think more in the first place, maybe they're missing the point and have jumped to their own conclusions too quickly."Or it could be that I'm taking the piss out of a thread where there's far too much white middle class angst over problems that don't necessarily exist other than in the individual's own mind | |||
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"Finding dark skin unattractive is not racist. Its a preference. However treating people differently because of the colour of their skin is. Some people don't like gingers and that's OK. But if you assume gingers are all thieves that's not ok. Or if you feel unsafe around gingers that's also a sign for you that you might want to examine your prejudices. It doesn't mean you are a bad person. Just that your biases are out of whack Interracial porn is actually racist by design. It taps into a sense of wrongness the watcher feels watching it. It's like humiliation play in bdsm except on race and without the aftercare or context. " I certainly find the last bit hard to construct an argument against. If it wasn't about the difference in skin colours, then it'd just be (and often is) regular porn. Putting on that label, makes it an overt issue, with all the baggage it brings along. I think it's a real shame there isn't really non-loaded language that can be used to discuss this, as identifying facts isn't an accusation of anything. "Biases are out of whack".. absolutely. | |||
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"Finding dark skin unattractive is not racist. Its a preference. However treating people differently because of the colour of their skin is. Some people don't like gingers and that's OK. But if you assume gingers are all thieves that's not ok. Or if you feel unsafe around gingers that's also a sign for you that you might want to examine your prejudices. It doesn't mean you are a bad person. Just that your biases are out of whack Interracial porn is actually racist by design. It taps into a sense of wrongness the watcher feels watching it. It's like humiliation play in bdsm except on race and without the aftercare or context. That’s a very good point and the essence of the discussion. How and where do these preferences come from, how are they challenged and who should challenge them? If we’re not doing it ourselves, then what’s the next step? " It's on you to check your own biases. Someone else can show you examples of how your behaviour is negative but only you can take it on or change your perspectives | |||
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"I really want to read the whole thread but there's a lot of long text being quoted. Effort. It is effort, believe me And not really worth it in the long run, either. It boils down to some people not liking what some other people say, and trying to make a mountain out of a molehill when none exists in the first place You're welcome
It’s ok. I’m sure there’s a kiss, marry avoid thread if it’s all a bit too much for you
There’s no need to be dismissive of discussions, just because you don’t like them
Why not? Preferences and all that
But more seriously, what exactly are you trying to prove / achieve with this thread?
Surely the best summation came earlier with the statement that people can choose who they do or don't want to fuck? If it's a no then that's the end of the conversion, otherwise it turns into harassment"You assume that I’m trying to achieve or prove something or have an ulterior motive for this discussion. Like I said; if you dislike the topic, there are plenty of others for you to enjoy. Have a good day | |||
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"Have a good day" What if he doesn't want to? Typical lefty... | |||
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"Have a good day What if he doesn't want to? Typical lefty..." Have a bad day then | |||
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"If we pulled apart everyone's sexual preferences, it would never end. Why do some people only like vanilla sex when some like something more hard / rough? We can't and shouldn't have to delve to find the origin of these preferences. We keep ourselves in check and make sure we aren't being biased by the way we live our day to day lives, treating everyone as a human being and recognising their right to live on this earth. Doesn't mean we have to have sex with all of them. " You’ve made basic assumptions about everyone there, does everyone keep themselves in check? | |||
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"Have a good day What if he doesn't want to? Typical lefty..."
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"If we pulled apart everyone's sexual preferences, it would never end. Why do some people only like vanilla sex when some like something more hard / rough? We can't and shouldn't have to delve to find the origin of these preferences. We keep ourselves in check and make sure we aren't being biased by the way we live our day to day lives, treating everyone as a human being and recognising their right to live on this earth. Doesn't mean we have to have sex with all of them. " The only person you need or should be interested in knowing all their facets and understanding them is someone you connect with. Everyone else, appreciate they may be different to you and embrace that difference. | |||
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"If we pulled apart everyone's sexual preferences, it would never end. Why do some people only like vanilla sex when some like something more hard / rough? We can't and shouldn't have to delve to find the origin of these preferences. We keep ourselves in check and make sure we aren't being biased by the way we live our day to day lives, treating everyone as a human being and recognising their right to live on this earth. Doesn't mean we have to have sex with all of them. You’ve made basic assumptions about everyone there, does everyone keep themselves in check? " But aren't you making the opposite assumption that everybody isn't in your opening question? | |||
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"If we pulled apart everyone's sexual preferences, it would never end. Why do some people only like vanilla sex when some like something more hard / rough? We can't and shouldn't have to delve to find the origin of these preferences. We keep ourselves in check and make sure we aren't being biased by the way we live our day to day lives, treating everyone as a human being and recognising their right to live on this earth. Doesn't mean we have to have sex with all of them. You’ve made basic assumptions about everyone there, does everyone keep themselves in check? But aren't you making the opposite assumption that everybody isn't in your opening question? " With most things, isn't it more reasonable to assume some people will be doing it and some people won't than to assume everyone is or everyone isn't? | |||
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"If we pulled apart everyone's sexual preferences, it would never end. Why do some people only like vanilla sex when some like something more hard / rough? We can't and shouldn't have to delve to find the origin of these preferences. We keep ourselves in check and make sure we aren't being biased by the way we live our day to day lives, treating everyone as a human being and recognising their right to live on this earth. Doesn't mean we have to have sex with all of them. You’ve made basic assumptions about everyone there, does everyone keep themselves in check? " I have because I'd like to think not everyone is a racist, prejudice, homophobic cunt. Unfortunately TM, we all know those people do exist and to pinch a phrase from further up, we can't police everyone's mind. All we can do is make sure that we are happy with out own morals and choices, that we are the best people we can be. If someone doesn't want to have sex with me because I'm white, fat, bi, an over thinker or I dye my hair and can't remember my natural colour, that's up to them and I can't change that nor would I want to. It just means we aren't compatible. | |||
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"I really want to read the whole thread but there's a lot of long text being quoted. Effort. It is effort, believe me And not really worth it in the long run, either. It boils down to some people not liking what some other people say, and trying to make a mountain out of a molehill when none exists in the first place You're welcome
It’s ok. I’m sure there’s a kiss, marry avoid thread if it’s all a bit too much for you
There’s no need to be dismissive of discussions, just because you don’t like them
Why not? Preferences and all that
But more seriously, what exactly are you trying to prove / achieve with this thread?
Surely the best summation came earlier with the statement that people can choose who they do or don't want to fuck? If it's a no then that's the end of the conversion, otherwise it turns into harassment
You assume that I’m trying to achieve or prove something or have an ulterior motive for this discussion.
Like I said; if you dislike the topic, there are plenty of others for you to enjoy.
Have a good day"I'm engaged with it now, and you only have yourself to blame But if you haven't got a motive, or point to make with this thread then what was the reason for your posting in the first place? There must be one But to give a more serious answer than previously, my own profile states that I like women with the 3 B's - boobs, bum and belly. Because I like women with a bit of meat on their bones. It a preference in what I find attractive. At least physically. But that doesn't mean that if meet a skinny / slender woman I'm not going to think any less of her, or be rude to her or treat her any differently to any other woman - we could end up as damn good friends - but the chances of me wanting to get involved with anything physical with her are remote to say the least. Most of my real life friends I wouldn't want to sleep with. Doesn't stop me liking them as people, though, or wanting to hang out with them | |||
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"Sex is like music no matter what you believe in. We all like them both. My point: you've got the hot woman on your bed, your boner is ready.. do you stop and ask what she believes in.. No you bone the living daylights out of her eager pussy and go home happy." If she’s on your bed, why are you going home afterwards? Surely you are home? And how do you “bone” a James Bond movie out of anyone? I once found a piece of sweet corn..,.,,that was not a nice day. | |||
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"Preference doesn't need to be stated loudly in my opinion. You've gone to the cake shop, you looked at the cakes. You then tell the appropriate person I choose that one. There's no need to say I don't like the coffee cake or the custard slice etc before choosing the lemon meringue pie. Find what it is you want, ask if you can have a slice or not then enjoy it if you can. That’s an interesting analogy, except people aren’t different flavours according to skin tone, shape, size, sexuality, etc and cakes don’t ask you why you’re not licking the cream from their buns! I see your point though. How do you ensure that your preferences aren’t prejudiced? Well I hadn't eaten lunch at that point hence the analogy
But why should we question other people's preferences? If someone said they didn't want to meet me I may feel a bit disappointed. But I'm not going to ask them is it because I'm fat or is it because I'm ginger. I accept there will be some who like me and others who don't.
Now I believe everyone will have some from of prejudice. I don't like redheads because my ex wife was one and I can't see past through it for example. But why should they divulge that information to a stranger? We shouldn't say I don't like xyz it makes people feel crappy. I just believe we should go about our business without having to justify ourselves.
That’s very fair.
My question is though, how do we ensure that preferences aren’t prejudicial? "You don't and you can't. Either accept them or rail against them. If it causes you offence, the problem is yours and not the person who stated what they prefer. | |||
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"Preference doesn't need to be stated loudly in my opinion. You've gone to the cake shop, you looked at the cakes. You then tell the appropriate person I choose that one. There's no need to say I don't like the coffee cake or the custard slice etc before choosing the lemon meringue pie. Find what it is you want, ask if you can have a slice or not then enjoy it if you can. That’s an interesting analogy, except people aren’t different flavours according to skin tone, shape, size, sexuality, etc and cakes don’t ask you why you’re not licking the cream from their buns! I see your point though. How do you ensure that your preferences aren’t prejudiced? Well I hadn't eaten lunch at that point hence the analogy
But why should we question other people's preferences? If someone said they didn't want to meet me I may feel a bit disappointed. But I'm not going to ask them is it because I'm fat or is it because I'm ginger. I accept there will be some who like me and others who don't.
Now I believe everyone will have some from of prejudice. I don't like redheads because my ex wife was one and I can't see past through it for example. But why should they divulge that information to a stranger? We shouldn't say I don't like xyz it makes people feel crappy. I just believe we should go about our business without having to justify ourselves.
That’s very fair.
My question is though, how do we ensure that preferences aren’t prejudicial?
By respecting people's wishes
Please explain, I can’t see how that works regarding my comment "An opinion | |||
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"Can anyone explain why people's preferences, or opinions for that matter, must be respected? When did this start? With social media? Some people's sexual preferences are just vile as are some people's opinions. Why must we respect them?" But in whose opinion are they vile? And why is one opinion more valid than the other? (assuming of course that we're not talking about anything illegal) | |||
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"Can anyone explain why people's preferences, or opinions for that matter, must be respected? When did this start? With social media? Some people's sexual preferences are just vile as are some people's opinions. Why must we respect them? But in whose opinion are they vile? And why is one opinion more valid than the other? (assuming of course that we're not talking about anything illegal) " All valid queries, I should have been clearer; why are opinions and preferences sanctified? Why must they be respected? | |||
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"Can anyone explain why people's preferences, or opinions for that matter, must be respected? When did this start? With social media? Some people's sexual preferences are just vile as are some people's opinions. Why must we respect them? But in whose opinion are they vile? And why is one opinion more valid than the other? (assuming of course that we're not talking about anything illegal) " Well why assume legality? The law is only an approximate attempt to write down a consensus on right and wrong. No law in this area is based on anything but opinions. It's an artificial line that should have no meaning. Other countries make homosexuality a death sentence, whilst allowing girls to be married off at 10... are those activities totally morally fine in those countries, or from where you sit now, are they still morally reprehensible? | |||
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"Because in life people were given a choice the right to choose which was also respected in same sex marriage" In life we were also given English lessons, simple grammar taught and executed ...oh wait.. | |||
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"Can anyone explain why people's preferences, or opinions for that matter, must be respected? When did this start? With social media? Some people's sexual preferences are just vile as are some people's opinions. Why must we respect them? But in whose opinion are they vile? And why is one opinion more valid than the other? (assuming of course that we're not talking about anything illegal) All valid queries, I should have been clearer; why are opinions and preferences sanctified? Why must they be respected? " As in all opinions and preferences? Surely if someone has the preference to not want to have sex with someone else but that isn't respected, it's illegal? You don't have to like that choice but if it isn't respected to the point of walking away it becomes sexual assult / r*pe. | |||
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"Can anyone explain why people's preferences, or opinions for that matter, must be respected? When did this start? With social media? Some people's sexual preferences are just vile as are some people's opinions. Why must we respect them? But in whose opinion are they vile? And why is one opinion more valid than the other? (assuming of course that we're not talking about anything illegal) All valid queries, I should have been clearer; why are opinions and preferences sanctified? Why must they be respected? " Nothing should be sacred, but I know that despite my feelings I don't want to call anyone a homophobe. That probably just makes me a bit of a coward though! | |||
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"Can anyone explain why people's preferences, or opinions for that matter, must be respected? When did this start? With social media? Some people's sexual preferences are just vile as are some people's opinions. Why must we respect them? But in whose opinion are they vile? And why is one opinion more valid than the other? (assuming of course that we're not talking about anything illegal) All valid queries, I should have been clearer; why are opinions and preferences sanctified? Why must they be respected? As in all opinions and preferences? Surely if someone has the preference to not want to have sex with someone else but that isn't respected, it's illegal? You don't have to like that choice but if it isn't respected to the point of walking away it becomes sexual assult / r*pe. " You're making FAR too big a gap here. Pretty most people here are hapily between these two lines you've drawn. | |||
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"Because in life people were given a choice the right to choose which was also respected in same sex marriage In life we were also given English lessons, simple grammar taught and executed ...oh wait.." True but at these times nobody knows how their life is having a impact on them as a child to concentrate on anything  | |||
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"Can anyone explain why people's preferences, or opinions for that matter, must be respected? When did this start? With social media? Some people's sexual preferences are just vile as are some people's opinions. Why must we respect them? But in whose opinion are they vile? And why is one opinion more valid than the other? (assuming of course that we're not talking about anything illegal) All valid queries, I should have been clearer; why are opinions and preferences sanctified? Why must they be respected? As in all opinions and preferences? Surely if someone has the preference to not want to have sex with someone else but that isn't respected, it's illegal? You don't have to like that choice but if it isn't respected to the point of walking away it becomes sexual assult / r*pe. You're making FAR too big a gap here. Pretty most people here are hapily between these two lines you've drawn." I was asking a question. Opinions and preferences are a pretty wide range. | |||
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"Can anyone explain why people's preferences, or opinions for that matter, must be respected? When did this start? With social media? Some people's sexual preferences are just vile as are some people's opinions. Why must we respect them? But in whose opinion are they vile? And why is one opinion more valid than the other? (assuming of course that we're not talking about anything illegal) All valid queries, I should have been clearer; why are opinions and preferences sanctified? Why must they be respected? As in all opinions and preferences? Surely if someone has the preference to not want to have sex with someone else but that isn't respected, it's illegal? You don't have to like that choice but if it isn't respected to the point of walking away it becomes sexual assult / r*pe. " I'm trying to understand why, how and, perhaps, when someone's opinions, preferences, choices, sentences suddenly became something we have to respect whether we like it or not. I'm not talking about forcing people to do anything. Quite the reverse in a certain light. | |||
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"This word is bandied around a lot and in of itself, it isn’t a problem. However, when preferences are used to conceal prejudices and discriminatory behaviours, is that still acceptable? How do we distinguish between what is acceptable and not acceptable or is a person’s preference sacred and not to be questioned? How do we ensure that we’re keeping ourselves honest if no one is able to challenge them? Thoughts folks " I don't think anyone should be allowed to challenge someone's personal sexual preferences, predijuices and discrimatory behaviours. Why should they have to do something they don't want to do with their body just because someone else doesn't like their choices | |||
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"Can anyone explain why people's preferences, or opinions for that matter, must be respected? When did this start? With social media? Some people's sexual preferences are just vile as are some people's opinions. Why must we respect them? But in whose opinion are they vile? And why is one opinion more valid than the other? (assuming of course that we're not talking about anything illegal) All valid queries, I should have been clearer; why are opinions and preferences sanctified? Why must they be respected? As in all opinions and preferences? Surely if someone has the preference to not want to have sex with someone else but that isn't respected, it's illegal? You don't have to like that choice but if it isn't respected to the point of walking away it becomes sexual assult / r*pe. I'm trying to understand why, how and, perhaps, when someone's opinions, preferences, choices, sentences suddenly became something we have to respect whether we like it or not. I'm not talking about forcing people to do anything. Quite the reverse in a certain light." I tend to agree with you. I fail to see how these are sacred concepts that cannot be questioned. The parallel is being drawn that it means that people have to meet people that they don’t want to, that actually isn’t the case | |||
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"This word is bandied around a lot and in of itself, it isn’t a problem. However, when preferences are used to conceal prejudices and discriminatory behaviours, is that still acceptable? How do we distinguish between what is acceptable and not acceptable or is a person’s preference sacred and not to be questioned? How do we ensure that we’re keeping ourselves honest if no one is able to challenge them? Thoughts folks I don't think anyone should be allowed to challenge someone's personal sexual preferences, predijuices and discrimatory behaviours. Why should they have to do something they don't want to do with their body just because someone else doesn't like their choices" I think it's pretty clear no one is ever suggest anyone should have sex with someone against their will. Reading it as that is quite an unfair misrepresentation of the post. | |||
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"This word is bandied around a lot and in of itself, it isn’t a problem. However, when preferences are used to conceal prejudices and discriminatory behaviours, is that still acceptable? How do we distinguish between what is acceptable and not acceptable or is a person’s preference sacred and not to be questioned? How do we ensure that we’re keeping ourselves honest if no one is able to challenge them? Thoughts folks I don't think anyone should be allowed to challenge someone's personal sexual preferences, predijuices and discrimatory behaviours. Why should they have to do something they don't want to do with their body just because someone else doesn't like their choices" No one is asking anyone to meet anyone or do anything with their bodies. It’s about the reason behind those choices and what those preferences are based upon | |||
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"This word is bandied around a lot and in of itself, it isn’t a problem. However, when preferences are used to conceal prejudices and discriminatory behaviours, is that still acceptable? How do we distinguish between what is acceptable and not acceptable or is a person’s preference sacred and not to be questioned? How do we ensure that we’re keeping ourselves honest if no one is able to challenge them? Thoughts folks I don't think anyone should be allowed to challenge someone's personal sexual preferences, predijuices and discrimatory behaviours. Why should they have to do something they don't want to do with their body just because someone else doesn't like their choices No one is asking anyone to meet anyone or do anything with their bodies. It’s about the reason behind those choices and what those preferences are based upon" Why does it matter? | |||
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"Being completely honest the wife's curves (her bum) draw particular attention from some quarters. That attention is very often not from her sexual preference so a polite no thanks normally suffices. Nowhere on our profile though do we chose to state those preferences except maybe age (because she already thinks I'm an old enough git for her). I've generally found positive discrimination much more rife on fab than negative. Does it really matter? Nope, just move on! " What’s positive discrimination? | |||
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"Can anyone explain why people's preferences, or opinions for that matter, must be respected? When did this start? With social media? Some people's sexual preferences are just vile as are some people's opinions. Why must we respect them? But in whose opinion are they vile? And why is one opinion more valid than the other? (assuming of course that we're not talking about anything illegal) All valid queries, I should have been clearer; why are opinions and preferences sanctified? Why must they be respected? As in all opinions and preferences? Surely if someone has the preference to not want to have sex with someone else but that isn't respected, it's illegal? You don't have to like that choice but if it isn't respected to the point of walking away it becomes sexual assult / r*pe. I'm trying to understand why, how and, perhaps, when someone's opinions, preferences, choices, sentences suddenly became something we have to respect whether we like it or not. I'm not talking about forcing people to do anything. Quite the reverse in a certain light. I tend to agree with you. I fail to see how these are sacred concepts that cannot be questioned. The parallel is being drawn that it means that people have to meet people that they don’t want to, that actually isn’t the case" I think they can and should be questioned, along with everything in life...but, and it's a big but, it should always be done without hypocrisy or accusations...question to learn and understand, NOT to vilify or preach. | |||
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"This word is bandied around a lot and in of itself, it isn’t a problem. However, when preferences are used to conceal prejudices and discriminatory behaviours, is that still acceptable? How do we distinguish between what is acceptable and not acceptable or is a person’s preference sacred and not to be questioned? How do we ensure that we’re keeping ourselves honest if no one is able to challenge them? Thoughts folks I don't think anyone should be allowed to challenge someone's personal sexual preferences, predijuices and discrimatory behaviours. Why should they have to do something they don't want to do with their body just because someone else doesn't like their choices No one is asking anyone to meet anyone or do anything with their bodies. It’s about the reason behind those choices and what those preferences are based upon Why does it matter?" Why does anything matter? It’s a relevant topic on a site where people cite preferences on a regular basis | |||
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"This word is bandied around a lot and in of itself, it isn’t a problem. However, when preferences are used to conceal prejudices and discriminatory behaviours, is that still acceptable? How do we distinguish between what is acceptable and not acceptable or is a person’s preference sacred and not to be questioned? How do we ensure that we’re keeping ourselves honest if no one is able to challenge them? Thoughts folks I don't think anyone should be allowed to challenge someone's personal sexual preferences, predijuices and discrimatory behaviours. Why should they have to do something they don't want to do with their body just because someone else doesn't like their choices No one is asking anyone to meet anyone or do anything with their bodies. It’s about the reason behind those choices and what those preferences are based upon Why does it matter?" It's a mix of experience and programming by society and parents? When your grandparents were openly racist (possibly due to being POW's), then a parent thinks it's okay to tell racist jokes. Maybe it all runs into your sexual preferences but not through choice. Am I racist, possibly in my head now and again and like to keep it only ever there because it disturbs me. Is my child racist, no, because with each generation that pushes back on it whatever they have been brainwashed to subconsciously it lessens. This imho takes time but continues because we do care mostly and are socially responsible. | |||
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"Being completely honest the wife's curves (her bum) draw particular attention from some quarters. That attention is very often not from her sexual preference so a polite no thanks normally suffices. Nowhere on our profile though do we chose to state those preferences except maybe age (because she already thinks I'm an old enough git for her). I've generally found positive discrimination much more rife on fab than negative. Does it really matter? Nope, just move on! What’s positive discrimination? " Stop baiting people TM. People have preferences, people have opinions. No single person is the arbitrator of that. I feel it is wholly inappropriate to pressure people to explain what they mean when actually, they can’t articulate it, it’s a “feeling”, it’s based on experience or on the world that they know. Freedom to think is just that, freedom for all, if other people don’t like the way you think, that’s on them, not you. | |||
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"Being completely honest the wife's curves (her bum) draw particular attention from some quarters. That attention is very often not from her sexual preference so a polite no thanks normally suffices. Nowhere on our profile though do we chose to state those preferences except maybe age (because she already thinks I'm an old enough git for her). I've generally found positive discrimination much more rife on fab than negative. Does it really matter? Nope, just move on! " But whilst there are plenty of gaps in the full conversation, from what you've said here you're doing whatever your doing sensitively and responsibly. Can't fault that in terms of how other people would perceive it. | |||
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"This word is bandied around a lot and in of itself, it isn’t a problem. However, when preferences are used to conceal prejudices and discriminatory behaviours, is that still acceptable? How do we distinguish between what is acceptable and not acceptable or is a person’s preference sacred and not to be questioned? How do we ensure that we’re keeping ourselves honest if no one is able to challenge them? Thoughts folks I don't think anyone should be allowed to challenge someone's personal sexual preferences, predijuices and discrimatory behaviours. Why should they have to do something they don't want to do with their body just because someone else doesn't like their choices No one is asking anyone to meet anyone or do anything with their bodies. It’s about the reason behind those choices and what those preferences are based upon Why does it matter? Why does anything matter? It’s a relevant topic on a site where people cite preferences on a regular basis" It’s a topic that requires a huge amount of nuance, context and articulation, if people could express themselves without elements of what they state being “clipped out” and used as a hammer to beat them over the head, they probably would, but certain people like to take those “snippets” and weaponise them. People have preferences how on earth can we sit here and judge them for that? | |||
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"Being completely honest the wife's curves (her bum) draw particular attention from some quarters. That attention is very often not from her sexual preference so a polite no thanks normally suffices. Nowhere on our profile though do we chose to state those preferences except maybe age (because she already thinks I'm an old enough git for her). I've generally found positive discrimination much more rife on fab than negative. Does it really matter? Nope, just move on! What’s positive discrimination? Stop baiting people TM. People have preferences, people have opinions. No single person is the arbitrator of that. I feel it is wholly inappropriate to pressure people to explain what they mean when actually, they can’t articulate it, it’s a “feeling”, it’s based on experience or on the world that they know. Freedom to think is just that, freedom for all, if other people don’t like the way you think, that’s on them, not you. You read baiting, I’m enquiring what people mean by statements rather than making assumptions about people’s comments. As you said; no single person is the arbitrator of people and making assumptions about my comments is contradictory to yours " As you wish TM. I shall await your next “let’s out the right wingers” thread with baited breath. Peace | |||
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"Being completely honest the wife's curves (her bum) draw particular attention from some quarters. That attention is very often not from her sexual preference so a polite no thanks normally suffices. Nowhere on our profile though do we chose to state those preferences except maybe age (because she already thinks I'm an old enough git for her). I've generally found positive discrimination much more rife on fab than negative. Does it really matter? Nope, just move on! What’s positive discrimination? Stop baiting people TM. People have preferences, people have opinions. No single person is the arbitrator of that. I feel it is wholly inappropriate to pressure people to explain what they mean when actually, they can’t articulate it, it’s a “feeling”, it’s based on experience or on the world that they know. Freedom to think is just that, freedom for all, if other people don’t like the way you think, that’s on them, not you. You read baiting, I’m enquiring what people mean by statements rather than making assumptions about people’s comments. As you said; no single person is the arbitrator of people and making assumptions about my comments is contradictory to yours As you wish TM. I shall await your next “let’s out the right wingers” thread with baited breath. Peace " | |||
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"Being completely honest the wife's curves (her bum) draw particular attention from some quarters. That attention is very often not from her sexual preference so a polite no thanks normally suffices. Nowhere on our profile though do we chose to state those preferences except maybe age (because she already thinks I'm an old enough git for her). I've generally found positive discrimination much more rife on fab than negative. Does it really matter? Nope, just move on! What’s positive discrimination? Stop baiting people TM. People have preferences, people have opinions. No single person is the arbitrator of that. I feel it is wholly inappropriate to pressure people to explain what they mean when actually, they can’t articulate it, it’s a “feeling”, it’s based on experience or on the world that they know. Freedom to think is just that, freedom for all, if other people don’t like the way you think, that’s on them, not you. You read baiting, I’m enquiring what people mean by statements rather than making assumptions about people’s comments. As you said; no single person is the arbitrator of people and making assumptions about my comments is contradictory to yours As you wish TM. I shall await your next “let’s out the right wingers” thread with baited breath. Peace "
I live for your good graces | |||
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"This word is bandied around a lot and in of itself, it isn’t a problem. However, when preferences are used to conceal prejudices and discriminatory behaviours, is that still acceptable? How do we distinguish between what is acceptable and not acceptable or is a person’s preference sacred and not to be questioned? How do we ensure that we’re keeping ourselves honest if no one is able to challenge them? Thoughts folks I don't think anyone should be allowed to challenge someone's personal sexual preferences, predijuices and discrimatory behaviours. Why should they have to do something they don't want to do with their body just because someone else doesn't like their choices No one is asking anyone to meet anyone or do anything with their bodies. It’s about the reason behind those choices and what those preferences are based upon Why does it matter? Why does anything matter? It’s a relevant topic on a site where people cite preferences on a regular basis It’s a topic that requires a huge amount of nuance, context and articulation, if people could express themselves without elements of what they state being “clipped out” and used as a hammer to beat them over the head, they probably would, but certain people like to take those “snippets” and weaponise them. People have preferences how on earth can we sit here and judge them for that? " I find it strange how you seem to be saying that people can’t speak for themselves and that you’ve chosen me as an antagonist in this. I think that you’ve missed the point of what I’m asking but don’t let the reality get in the way of your assumptions | |||
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"Can anyone explain why people's preferences, or opinions for that matter, must be respected? When did this start? With social media? Some people's sexual preferences are just vile as are some people's opinions. Why must we respect them? But in whose opinion are they vile? And why is one opinion more valid than the other? (assuming of course that we're not talking about anything illegal) All valid queries, I should have been clearer; why are opinions and preferences sanctified? Why must they be respected? As in all opinions and preferences? Surely if someone has the preference to not want to have sex with someone else but that isn't respected, it's illegal? You don't have to like that choice but if it isn't respected to the point of walking away it becomes sexual assult / r*pe. I'm trying to understand why, how and, perhaps, when someone's opinions, preferences, choices, sentences suddenly became something we have to respect whether we like it or not. I'm not talking about forcing people to do anything. Quite the reverse in a certain light. I tend to agree with you. I fail to see how these are sacred concepts that cannot be questioned. The parallel is being drawn that it means that people have to meet people that they don’t want to, that actually isn’t the case" The counter argument of being forced to sleep with someone you don't want to is a brilliant straw man because nobody, except maybe a r*pist, can disagree. Deflects beautifully and gains the moral high ground. What on earth made you dig this discussion up again today Tea? Were you in the mood for a fight? | |||
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"I don't think anyone should be allowed to challenge someone's personal sexual preferences, predijuices and discrimatory behaviours. Why should they have to do something they don't want to do with their body just because someone else doesn't like their choices No one is asking anyone to meet anyone or do anything with their bodies. It’s about the reason behind those choices and what those preferences are based upon Why does it matter? Why does anything matter? It’s a relevant topic on a site where people cite preferences on a regular basis" Nicely sidestepping having to answer the question posed. Bravo | |||
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"A place like Fab is like the dark forest; we can uncover all sorts lurking in the shadows of our pictures, silhouettes and pixelated ramblings on a screen. We can never be sure quite what we are seeing. Only when the light of consciousness is shone upon these things can we get a closer picture of the truth. Shining the light inside ourselves is what we really need to do. If we all do that then the question loses its relevance. It remains, both a controversial and challenging question, when our focus is on the others, as if they are other than a reflection of ourselves." A beautifully written post. | |||
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"I don't think anyone should be allowed to challenge someone's personal sexual preferences, predijuices and discrimatory behaviours. Why should they have to do something they don't want to do with their body just because someone else doesn't like their choices No one is asking anyone to meet anyone or do anything with their bodies. It’s about the reason behind those choices and what those preferences are based upon Why does it matter? Why does anything matter? It’s a relevant topic on a site where people cite preferences on a regular basis Nicely sidestepping having to answer the question posed. Bravo" Actually the bottom line I posted answers it | |||
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"Can anyone explain why people's preferences, or opinions for that matter, must be respected? When did this start? With social media? Some people's sexual preferences are just vile as are some people's opinions. Why must we respect them? But in whose opinion are they vile? And why is one opinion more valid than the other? (assuming of course that we're not talking about anything illegal) All valid queries, I should have been clearer; why are opinions and preferences sanctified? Why must they be respected? As in all opinions and preferences? Surely if someone has the preference to not want to have sex with someone else but that isn't respected, it's illegal? You don't have to like that choice but if it isn't respected to the point of walking away it becomes sexual assult / r*pe. I'm trying to understand why, how and, perhaps, when someone's opinions, preferences, choices, sentences suddenly became something we have to respect whether we like it or not. I'm not talking about forcing people to do anything. Quite the reverse in a certain light. I tend to agree with you. I fail to see how these are sacred concepts that cannot be questioned. The parallel is being drawn that it means that people have to meet people that they don’t want to, that actually isn’t the case The counter argument of being forced to sleep with someone you don't want to is a brilliant straw man because nobody, except maybe a r*pist, can disagree. Deflects beautifully and gains the moral high ground. What on earth made you dig this discussion up again today Tea? Were you in the mood for a fight? "To be honest I think it quite nicely links into why all opinions shouldn't automatically be respected. Some people are of the opinion that forcing others to have sex is perfectly okay. For example, the belief that its acceptable to force yourself upon your wife. | |||
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"Can anyone explain why people's preferences, or opinions for that matter, must be respected? When did this start? With social media? Some people's sexual preferences are just vile as are some people's opinions. Why must we respect them? But in whose opinion are they vile? And why is one opinion more valid than the other? (assuming of course that we're not talking about anything illegal) All valid queries, I should have been clearer; why are opinions and preferences sanctified? Why must they be respected? As in all opinions and preferences? Surely if someone has the preference to not want to have sex with someone else but that isn't respected, it's illegal? You don't have to like that choice but if it isn't respected to the point of walking away it becomes sexual assult / r*pe. I'm trying to understand why, how and, perhaps, when someone's opinions, preferences, choices, sentences suddenly became something we have to respect whether we like it or not. I'm not talking about forcing people to do anything. Quite the reverse in a certain light. I tend to agree with you. I fail to see how these are sacred concepts that cannot be questioned. The parallel is being drawn that it means that people have to meet people that they don’t want to, that actually isn’t the case The counter argument of being forced to sleep with someone you don't want to is a brilliant straw man because nobody, except maybe a r*pist, can disagree. Deflects beautifully and gains the moral high ground. What on earth made you dig this discussion up again today Tea? Were you in the mood for a fight?
To be honest I think it quite nicely links into why all opinions shouldn't automatically be respected. Some people are of the opinion that forcing others to have sex is perfectly okay. For example, the belief that its acceptable to force yourself upon your wife. "They are aren’t they. How’s the Porter revision going? No need to apologise, just glad to help | |||
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"Can anyone explain why people's preferences, or opinions for that matter, must be respected? When did this start? With social media? Some people's sexual preferences are just vile as are some people's opinions. Why must we respect them? But in whose opinion are they vile? And why is one opinion more valid than the other? (assuming of course that we're not talking about anything illegal) All valid queries, I should have been clearer; why are opinions and preferences sanctified? Why must they be respected? As in all opinions and preferences? Surely if someone has the preference to not want to have sex with someone else but that isn't respected, it's illegal? You don't have to like that choice but if it isn't respected to the point of walking away it becomes sexual assult / r*pe. I'm trying to understand why, how and, perhaps, when someone's opinions, preferences, choices, sentences suddenly became something we have to respect whether we like it or not. I'm not talking about forcing people to do anything. Quite the reverse in a certain light. I tend to agree with you. I fail to see how these are sacred concepts that cannot be questioned. The parallel is being drawn that it means that people have to meet people that they don’t want to, that actually isn’t the case The counter argument of being forced to sleep with someone you don't want to is a brilliant straw man because nobody, except maybe a r*pist, can disagree. Deflects beautifully and gains the moral high ground. What on earth made you dig this discussion up again today Tea? Were you in the mood for a fight? "Believe it or not, no! It’s a relevant topic and after a thread this morning, it seemed even more relevant. I find it interesting as to just how many people deem my motives as negative or argumentative. I actually just wanted a good old conversation about it | |||
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"Can anyone explain why people's preferences, or opinions for that matter, must be respected? When did this start? With social media? Some people's sexual preferences are just vile as are some people's opinions. Why must we respect them? But in whose opinion are they vile? And why is one opinion more valid than the other? (assuming of course that we're not talking about anything illegal) All valid queries, I should have been clearer; why are opinions and preferences sanctified? Why must they be respected? As in all opinions and preferences? Surely if someone has the preference to not want to have sex with someone else but that isn't respected, it's illegal? You don't have to like that choice but if it isn't respected to the point of walking away it becomes sexual assult / r*pe. I'm trying to understand why, how and, perhaps, when someone's opinions, preferences, choices, sentences suddenly became something we have to respect whether we like it or not. I'm not talking about forcing people to do anything. Quite the reverse in a certain light. I tend to agree with you. I fail to see how these are sacred concepts that cannot be questioned. The parallel is being drawn that it means that people have to meet people that they don’t want to, that actually isn’t the case The counter argument of being forced to sleep with someone you don't want to is a brilliant straw man because nobody, except maybe a r*pist, can disagree. Deflects beautifully and gains the moral high ground. What on earth made you dig this discussion up again today Tea? Were you in the mood for a fight?
To be honest I think it quite nicely links into why all opinions shouldn't automatically be respected. Some people are of the opinion that forcing others to have sex is perfectly okay. For example, the belief that its acceptable to force yourself upon your wife.
They are aren’t they. How’s the Porter revision going? No need to apologise, just glad to help"Not so well. I'm going backwards. I no longer know what a chef is or what a waiter is. I fear at some point I will no longer know who I am. | |||
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"I find it interesting that so many assume the OP isn't applying the question to himself also. " I’ve stated quite a few times that I do apply these questions to myself. I find it interesting that so many question my motives for posting this type of topic, it’s the good old ‘why’ and my curious nature | |||
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"Can anyone explain why people's preferences, or opinions for that matter, must be respected? When did this start? With social media? Some people's sexual preferences are just vile as are some people's opinions. Why must we respect them? But in whose opinion are they vile? And why is one opinion more valid than the other? (assuming of course that we're not talking about anything illegal) All valid queries, I should have been clearer; why are opinions and preferences sanctified? Why must they be respected? As in all opinions and preferences? Surely if someone has the preference to not want to have sex with someone else but that isn't respected, it's illegal? You don't have to like that choice but if it isn't respected to the point of walking away it becomes sexual assult / r*pe. I'm trying to understand why, how and, perhaps, when someone's opinions, preferences, choices, sentences suddenly became something we have to respect whether we like it or not. I'm not talking about forcing people to do anything. Quite the reverse in a certain light. I tend to agree with you. I fail to see how these are sacred concepts that cannot be questioned. The parallel is being drawn that it means that people have to meet people that they don’t want to, that actually isn’t the case The counter argument of being forced to sleep with someone you don't want to is a brilliant straw man because nobody, except maybe a r*pist, can disagree. Deflects beautifully and gains the moral high ground. What on earth made you dig this discussion up again today Tea? Were you in the mood for a fight?
To be honest I think it quite nicely links into why all opinions shouldn't automatically be respected. Some people are of the opinion that forcing others to have sex is perfectly okay. For example, the belief that its acceptable to force yourself upon your wife. "Did people say that?! | |||
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"Can anyone explain why people's preferences, or opinions for that matter, must be respected? When did this start? With social media? Some people's sexual preferences are just vile as are some people's opinions. Why must we respect them? But in whose opinion are they vile? And why is one opinion more valid than the other? (assuming of course that we're not talking about anything illegal) All valid queries, I should have been clearer; why are opinions and preferences sanctified? Why must they be respected? As in all opinions and preferences? Surely if someone has the preference to not want to have sex with someone else but that isn't respected, it's illegal? You don't have to like that choice but if it isn't respected to the point of walking away it becomes sexual assult / r*pe. I'm trying to understand why, how and, perhaps, when someone's opinions, preferences, choices, sentences suddenly became something we have to respect whether we like it or not. I'm not talking about forcing people to do anything. Quite the reverse in a certain light. I tend to agree with you. I fail to see how these are sacred concepts that cannot be questioned. The parallel is being drawn that it means that people have to meet people that they don’t want to, that actually isn’t the case The counter argument of being forced to sleep with someone you don't want to is a brilliant straw man because nobody, except maybe a r*pist, can disagree. Deflects beautifully and gains the moral high ground. What on earth made you dig this discussion up again today Tea? Were you in the mood for a fight?
To be honest I think it quite nicely links into why all opinions shouldn't automatically be respected. Some people are of the opinion that forcing others to have sex is perfectly okay. For example, the belief that its acceptable to force yourself upon your wife.
Did people say that?! "It's something I've encountered through work. It's difficult when the wife believes it's ok too. | |||
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"I don't think anyone should be allowed to challenge someone's personal sexual preferences, predijuices and discrimatory behaviours. Why should they have to do something they don't want to do with their body just because someone else doesn't like their choices No one is asking anyone to meet anyone or do anything with their bodies. It’s about the reason behind those choices and what those preferences are based upon Why does it matter? Why does anything matter? It’s a relevant topic on a site where people cite preferences on a regular basis Nicely sidestepping having to answer the question posed. Bravo Actually the bottom line I posted answers it" My bad. I missed your answers. But I'm still curious as to why this bothers you so much. If someone says they don't like something, especially in the context of this site, surely nothing you can do or say will make them change their mind. And any attempt to do so would be considered harassment. It does feel as though you're saying that how people conduct themselves IRL should somehow translate into their behaviour on here | |||
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"But I'm still curious as to why this bothers you so much. If someone says they don't like something, especially in the context of this site, surely nothing you can do or say will make them change their mind. And any attempt to do so would be considered harassment. It does feel as though you're saying that how people conduct themselves IRL should somehow translate into their behaviour on here" It's not about changing their mind though, why does it keep coming back to that? | |||
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"I don't think anyone should be allowed to challenge someone's personal sexual preferences, predijuices and discrimatory behaviours. Why should they have to do something they don't want to do with their body just because someone else doesn't like their choices No one is asking anyone to meet anyone or do anything with their bodies. It’s about the reason behind those choices and what those preferences are based upon Why does it matter? Why does anything matter? It’s a relevant topic on a site where people cite preferences on a regular basis Nicely sidestepping having to answer the question posed. Bravo Actually the bottom line I posted answers it My bad. I missed your answers. But I'm still curious as to why this bothers you so much. If someone says they don't like something, especially in the context of this site, surely nothing you can do or say will make them change their mind. And any attempt to do so would be considered harassment. It does feel as though you're saying that how people conduct themselves IRL should somehow translate into their behaviour on here" I don’t act differently on here than I do away from here, as my partner will happily tell you. Perhaps I make assumptions about people and there behaviour that I shouldn’t. It’s not that it bothers me, as I said in previous posts, I’m curious and it’s a pertinent topic, especially as the word preference is bounced around so much on the forums. I do wonder how people reflect upon themselves and their tastes. I find it strange that I’m having to defend the topic of debate and my intent repeatedly on this subject though | |||
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"Let's say I am a raging racist, homophobic, ageist type but I keep it to myself and don't openly rant about all the XYZ that I 'hate'. Let's say I politely say "no thank you my preference is to not meet them". Then what? You just state in your profile 'Looking for white straight men aged between xxx' Simples
No sorry, my point is, in this example I am a terribly prejudiced racist homophobe.
How can it be 'challenged' as per the OP?
I should be encouraged to fuck people I hate?
It shouldnt be challenged. The problem now days is everyone feels its their right to question/challenge people on their beliefs or morals.
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