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God and suffering.
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This is in response to the Ashley Caine thread and the sad news of their daughter passing away.
I didn't waft to derail that thread with my clumsy musings as that is for condolences and support.
My question is this. Often when children pass away the sentiment from religious people is that God has called them home to end their suffering but if God loves all people why does he cause such suffering in children and why does he seemingly punish the families by taking away the thing they love most?
I'm not particularly religious. I was not bought up in any one faith but I will listen and take on board opinions and discussion around people's beliefs etc so just looking for some friendly, non judgmental discussion around this. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I am not religious but am interested in religion.
In my perspective God does not cause suffering. God does not do anything. Humans have free will. The point is not to lose faith through trials and tribulations.
In many religions life itself is suffering and has to be endured to reach an 'after-life'. |
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I don't believe in God or any higher power.
However, I do appreciate that the belief that there's somewhere that loved ones go after death, is a comfort for many.
As for God and suffering, if the Bible is anything to go by, God seems to like making people suffer for not doung what is wanted. Hardly benevolent. |
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I read this and thought for a while. But the truth is I don’t have an answer to this. I don’t think there are any. Other than the old bad things happen to good people. Im not a believer but I often envy people who do take comfort in religion and faith. I also don’t believe in karma etc. Things just happen. Very very sad x |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I don't believe in God or any higher power.
However, I do appreciate that the belief that there's somewhere that loved ones go after death, is a comfort for many.
As for God and suffering, if the Bible is anything to go by, God seems to like making people suffer for not doung what is wanted. Hardly benevolent. "
In the bible there are essentially two 'gods'. The old testament retributative one and the new testament benevolent one. Probably explained by the many different sources/writers which make up the bible. |
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I can’t bring myself to believe in the concept of god. Not after what has been done to me and what has been done in a gods name.
I won’t mock those with belief as it must cause them comfort and it’s not for me to take it away.
That little girls father has said he hopes to hold her in heaven one day and if that’s what he believes then again it’s not for me to try and take that away.
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I always think that whatever happens no matter how painful and terrible, there's something that is good eventually meant for all of us.
It might be a self-consolation statement but all we have to do is to face the problems/tests with patience.
Sometimes, it is the bad things that bring us closer to God and the good things make us careless and ungrateful.
Easier said than done of course. Just my personal opinion. |
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"I am not religious but am interested in religion.
In my perspective God does not cause suffering. God does not do anything. Humans have free will. The point is not to lose faith through trials and tribulations.
In many religions life itself is suffering and has to be endured to reach an 'after-life'."
So a child born with a life limiting condition that needs to have daily pain medication is free will?
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I can’t bring myself to believe in the concept of god. Not after what has been done to me and what has been done in a gods name.
I won’t mock those with belief as it must cause them comfort and it’s not for me to take it away.
That little girls father has said he hopes to hold her in heaven one day and if that’s what he believes then again it’s not for me to try and take that away.
"
This for me too. I'm not necessarily religious but don't shut down the ideals of those who are because people believe for many different reasons, for some their faith is all they have and for others it brings comfort.
I know people who's faith has got them through the toughest times. Who is anyone to say what they believe isn't real  |
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"I can’t bring myself to believe in the concept of god. Not after what has been done to me and what has been done in a gods name.
I won’t mock those with belief as it must cause them comfort and it’s not for me to take it away.
That little girls father has said he hopes to hold her in heaven one day and if that’s what he believes then again it’s not for me to try and take that away.
This for me too. I'm not necessarily religious but don't shut down the ideals of those who are because people believe for many different reasons, for some their faith is all they have and for others it brings comfort.
I know people who's faith has got them through the toughest times. Who is anyone to say what they believe isn't real "
I hope the Father gets his wish I really do.
If I ever get to the pearly gates. Someone up there has got some explaining to do. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I am not religious but am interested in religion.
In my perspective God does not cause suffering. God does not do anything. Humans have free will. The point is not to lose faith through trials and tribulations.
In many religions life itself is suffering and has to be endured to reach an 'after-life'.
So a child born with a life limiting condition that needs to have daily pain medication is free will?
"
No, that's probably genetics. I'm not talking specifically about that case as I have no idea what it's about. |
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"I don't believe in God or any higher power.
However, I do appreciate that the belief that there's somewhere that loved ones go after death, is a comfort for many.
As for God and suffering, if the Bible is anything to go by, God seems to like making people suffer for not doung what is wanted. Hardly benevolent. "
Oh absolutely I get that it is a comfort to some, which is why I didn't want to raise this on the thread I saw it on for fear of upsetting people. |
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I'm completely athiest and definitely relate to the thought of if there was a god, why would he give children cancer?
However, in general I don't think a world without suffering would be a better place. Of course there absolutely are experiences that are so horrific that it's unfair for people to ever have to experience them. Though of the lesser kinds, would we really appreciate the good so much without the bad? |
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"I am not religious but am interested in religion.
In my perspective God does not cause suffering. God does not do anything. Humans have free will. The point is not to lose faith through trials and tribulations.
In many religions life itself is suffering and has to be endured to reach an 'after-life'.
So a child born with a life limiting condition that needs to have daily pain medication is free will?
No, that's probably genetics. I'm not talking specifically about that case as I have no idea what it's about."
It's not specific to that case. Thousands of children are born with conditions or go through illnesses that some consider to be part of God's 'plan' for them.
I know there are no real answers to this as at the end of the slday it is all down to interpretations on a work of fiction. I just find it an interesting topic. |
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"I'm completely athiest and definitely relate to the thought of if there was a god, why would he give children cancer?
However, in general I don't think a world without suffering would be a better place. Of course there absolutely are experiences that are so horrific that it's unfair for people to ever have to experience them. Though of the lesser kinds, would we really appreciate the good so much without the bad? "
I definitely think that suffering is character building and helps us appreciate life more - but the idea of extending this to some of the horrific ways that children in particular die... doesn't sit well with me. |
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"I'm completely athiest and definitely relate to the thought of if there was a god, why would he give children cancer?
However, in general I don't think a world without suffering would be a better place. Of course there absolutely are experiences that are so horrific that it's unfair for people to ever have to experience them. Though of the lesser kinds, would we really appreciate the good so much without the bad?
I definitely think that suffering is character building and helps us appreciate life more - but the idea of extending this to some of the horrific ways that children in particular die... doesn't sit well with me."
Kinda thought I covered that. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I am not religious but am interested in religion.
In my perspective God does not cause suffering. God does not do anything. Humans have free will. The point is not to lose faith through trials and tribulations.
In many religions life itself is suffering and has to be endured to reach an 'after-life'.
So a child born with a life limiting condition that needs to have daily pain medication is free will?
No, that's probably genetics. I'm not talking specifically about that case as I have no idea what it's about.
It's not specific to that case. Thousands of children are born with conditions or go through illnesses that some consider to be part of God's 'plan' for them.
I know there are no real answers to this as at the end of the slday it is all down to interpretations on a work of fiction. I just find it an interesting topic. "
For me the question would be is it fair to keep a child alive because there may be a very very slim chance they might live and if they do live at what cost? You could argue god is not causing the suffering but medical science is. |
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By *ubal1Man
over a year ago
Newry Down |
God, nor any other deities exist. They are all fabrications, mental constructs.
However, the loss of a relative, with whom one has had an emotional connection is devastating.
When my beloved dog died many years ago, I was in shock and went through a long grieving process.
Humanism provides more logical rational realistic meaning within my life.
When I die, I will probably be either burned or buried; if I win the Lottery I might consider cryogenics.
Life is ephemeral; I endeavour to make the most of it by myself every day. I do not depend only any faith tales to bring meaning to my existence.
If you have a different opinion, and that construct brings meaning, purpose and a sense of belonging to your life, I respect that. |
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"I'm completely athiest and definitely relate to the thought of if there was a god, why would he give children cancer?
However, in general I don't think a world without suffering would be a better place. Of course there absolutely are experiences that are so horrific that it's unfair for people to ever have to experience them. Though of the lesser kinds, would we really appreciate the good so much without the bad?
I definitely think that suffering is character building and helps us appreciate life more - but the idea of extending this to some of the horrific ways that children in particular die... doesn't sit well with me.
Kinda thought I covered that."
Sorry, I was agreeing with you. |
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By *a LunaWoman
over a year ago
South |
"There aren't always answers to questions. Faith can be comforting to people when they can't find the real answer."
This. Speaking from experience as my Grampy “found” religion after my Uncle died suddenly at the age of 33. It was the support he got from the Vicar (who was an amazingly kind soul) and getting involved with Church stuff that gave him the strength to help my Nan through. To talk to someone, who doesn’t really have the answers but who was happy to sit there and listen to his anger, pain, frustration and sorrow without burdening them directly, was a big comfort.
And sometimes when there is no other reason, you just want and need to think that the loved one has been taken for a purpose, rather than it just being a cruel twist of fate.
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"I am not religious but am interested in religion.
In my perspective God does not cause suffering. God does not do anything. Humans have free will. The point is not to lose faith through trials and tribulations.
In many religions life itself is suffering and has to be endured to reach an 'after-life'.
So a child born with a life limiting condition that needs to have daily pain medication is free will?
No, that's probably genetics. I'm not talking specifically about that case as I have no idea what it's about.
It's not specific to that case. Thousands of children are born with conditions or go through illnesses that some consider to be part of God's 'plan' for them.
I know there are no real answers to this as at the end of the slday it is all down to interpretations on a work of fiction. I just find it an interesting topic.
For me the question would be is it fair to keep a child alive because there may be a very very slim chance they might live and if they do live at what cost? You could argue god is not causing the suffering but medical science is."
Quality of life is 100% considered in medical decisions. If the preservation of life is likely only to prolong suffering, treatment is usually withdrawn. An example of this was the whole court battle over Alfie Evans between the parents and the medical professionals. |
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"I'm completely athiest and definitely relate to the thought of if there was a god, why would he give children cancer?
However, in general I don't think a world without suffering would be a better place. Of course there absolutely are experiences that are so horrific that it's unfair for people to ever have to experience them. Though of the lesser kinds, would we really appreciate the good so much without the bad?
I definitely think that suffering is character building and helps us appreciate life more - but the idea of extending this to some of the horrific ways that children in particular die... doesn't sit well with me.
Kinda thought I covered that.
Sorry, I was agreeing with you."
Oh right  |
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It's fine to believe in a god if it gives comfort and reassurance, however lacking in reality, but at the end of the day, there is no evidence for a god. In fact there are thousands of gods previously believed in that nobody does anymore like Thor and Athena.
The god you believe in depends largely on the country you were born in, and the religion you were told is the correct one. |
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I can't get my head around the idea that there is a god controlling everything who would make some people's lives amazing and other's miserable. That sounds like a god who is just playing with us for his own amusement. I couldn't possibly see a god like that as in any way good.
Religious people often credit their god with good things that happen, but instead of blaming him for bad things they just say "God works in mysterious ways". That sounds like a double standard to me. Luke |
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"It's fine to believe in a god if it gives comfort and reassurance, however lacking in reality, but at the end of the day, there is no evidence for a god. In fact there are thousands of gods previously believed in that nobody does anymore like Thor and Athena.
The god you believe in depends largely on the country you were born in, and the religion you were told is the correct one."
and the inability to think critically with logic and reason. |
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"It's fine to believe in a god if it gives comfort and reassurance, however lacking in reality, but at the end of the day, there is no evidence for a god. In fact there are thousands of gods previously believed in that nobody does anymore like Thor and Athena.
The god you believe in depends largely on the country you were born in, and the religion you were told is the correct one. and the inability to think critically with logic and reason. "
Absolutely this Granny  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I can't get my head around the idea that there is a god controlling everything who would make some people's lives amazing and other's miserable. That sounds like a god who is just playing with us for his own amusement. I couldn't possibly see a god like that as in any way good.
Religious people often credit their god with good things that happen, but instead of blaming him for bad things they just say "God works in mysterious ways". That sounds like a double standard to me. Luke "
Like the Spanish footballer who's name i can't remember..who after pulling through some appalling injuries in a car crash praised God to high heaven outside the hospital for helping him pull through....Not one mention of the surgeons and medics in his recovery. |
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"I'm completely athiest and definitely relate to the thought of if there was a god, why would he give children cancer?
However, in general I don't think a world without suffering would be a better place. Of course there absolutely are experiences that are so horrific that it's unfair for people to ever have to experience them. Though of the lesser kinds, would we really appreciate the good so much without the bad?
I definitely think that suffering is character building and helps us appreciate life more - but the idea of extending this to some of the horrific ways that children in particular die... doesn't sit well with me."
Going camping in winter is character building (or in the summer in Australia, particularly with the indigenous fauna that will poison or eat you, or both, as soon as look at you).
Children dying though... no, I don't have any answers. |
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"I'm completely athiest and definitely relate to the thought of if there was a god, why would he give children cancer?
However, in general I don't think a world without suffering would be a better place. Of course there absolutely are experiences that are so horrific that it's unfair for people to ever have to experience them. Though of the lesser kinds, would we really appreciate the good so much without the bad?
I definitely think that suffering is character building and helps us appreciate life more - but the idea of extending this to some of the horrific ways that children in particular die... doesn't sit well with me.
Going camping in winter is character building (or in the summer in Australia, particularly with the indigenous fauna that will poison or eat you, or both, as soon as look at you).
Children dying though... no, I don't have any answers."
Who goes camping in summer in Australia?  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I don't judge others for their views, we all have our own beliefs. For me personally, I don't have religious beliefs. I believe some children are born sick and suffering through a variety of biological causes, all to do with the random genetic lottery that is life. It's sad and of course devastating for all involved, but it's no one's fault. Unless of course it was caused by foetal alcohol syndrome or some other preventable thing, but even then there's no real benefit to placing blame. It's sad, but life is sad. I don't believe in a higher purpose or cause, and therefore can't blame sadness on a god either. Just my opinion x |
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Like the awful things people say to you when you're going through really tough times.
"God only gives suffering to people strong enough to bear it"
"What does not kill you only makes you stronger"
"God gives special children to special people"
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By *phroditeWoman
over a year ago
(She/ her) in Sensualityland |
Not religious here but accept and respect that others hold beliefs which help make sense of their world.
I would not go as far as agreeing with somebody who thinks a certain act/ event (good or bad) was God's will. I would perhaps reflect back and say that it is their belief that this is so.
Never ever would I offer an explanation like "God's will you lost your baby" to anybody. That would feel like inflicting a belief system on somebody who has just experienced one of the worst things that could happen to a human being.
I don't think it would be helpful at all. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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As Stephen Fry said a couple of years back if there is a god hes not someone we should worship and he's a saddistic prick, Child cancers, insects which burrow in the eyes of children, not something that we should be worshipping
My view, it is interesting the notion that every society has some form of god/deity all with similar notions of other worldly beings with immense knowledge and power
Take the dog star tribe as an example (google it) they claimed to be from a star next to sirius from early BC, the star wasnt found until modern telecsopes 3-4000 years later
Certainly don't believe in gods, but as the only sentient evolution from a trillion species in the universe there my be somethings we have yet to understand
J |
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"I'm completely athiest and definitely relate to the thought of if there was a god, why would he give children cancer?
However, in general I don't think a world without suffering would be a better place. Of course there absolutely are experiences that are so horrific that it's unfair for people to ever have to experience them. Though of the lesser kinds, would we really appreciate the good so much without the bad?
I definitely think that suffering is character building and helps us appreciate life more - but the idea of extending this to some of the horrific ways that children in particular die... doesn't sit well with me.
Going camping in winter is character building (or in the summer in Australia, particularly with the indigenous fauna that will poison or eat you, or both, as soon as look at you).
Children dying though... no, I don't have any answers.
Who goes camping in summer in Australia? "
Somebody who needs their character building? |
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