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Police harassment?
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"Don’t worry, I’m not asking about “dogging spots near me”. This is a post about the police, possible harassment, possible police homophobia, and possible hypocritical attitudes. Don’t let the “homophobia” bit imply that this post is just for gay and bi men - quite the opposite - I want to hear the opinions of all tropes of the sexual spectrum. So, seeing as the lockdowns have started to be relaxed, there has been an increase in outdoor sexual activity. Straight people call it “Dogging”, us gays call it “Cruising”. I don’t partake very often, but sometimes I need a bit of light relief, and a bit of an anonymous fumble does the job. There are a cluster of lay-bys and car parks with (very) secluded wooded and forest areas adjacent, not too far away from my house, that are well known, and used, spots for this type of activity. On the most part, the gays stick to one area, and the straights stick to another area. On driving home from Clitheroe, last week, I genuinely needed to make a phone call but my phone wasn’t connected to the hands-free, so I pulled in to connect it all up... coincidentally (genuinely coincidentally) I was driving past said lay-bys, and so I pulled in. No sooner had I pulled the handbrake on, I had a torch shined through my window by a couple of cops in their car. They signalled for me to wind the window down, and they asked me what I was doing. I told them, and they asked why I needed to pull into that specific lay-by to do that. I got a bit testy at this point because I knew exactly what they were implying, so I pointed out that I needed to connect up the CarPlay for the hands-free, and then I aggressively asked if they preferred that I did that whilst driving. Then they started to say that there are a lot of single men in their cars there, and that they were “up to no good”. I asked exactly what they we’re implying, and they said that they would leave that to me to work out for myself, and if I am genuinely making a phone call, then they will leave me to it, and then they drove off. This kind of questioning happens more often than I care to count... not just to me, but to a lot of guys, in many different spots throughout the region. Following this, I have seen in some of the gay cruising forums that, this week, the police have actually been getting out of their cars and going into the very well secluded, very dark, and very hidden woods next to said lay-bys with their torches on, actively trying to catch guys in the act. The law regarding sex in public, from what I understand, is this... unless it is witnessed, or if there is no risk of more than two people seeing, it isn’t illegal. Sitting in your car at said spots ISN’T illegal. So, why are the police knocking on car windows and asking people what they are doing there? It’s obvious that, whilst someone is sitting alone in their car, they aren’t engaging in criminal activity. So, surely pestering them to wind their window down and demanding justification as to why someone (who pays their road tax) is parked in a public lay-by is just harassment! Additionally, if sex outside is only illegal if someone sees it, why are the police actively looking for it? I know that this is a grey area but to be actively pursuing something to make it illegal is surely a form of entrapment, right? My opinion is that, sure, police should be able to patrol areas to make sure that nothing illegal is taking place. But, in this case, just a simple drive by is enough. If there isn’t anybody in the middle of the road with a cock in their mouth, they should just drive off again. They shouldn’t be harassing and knocking on car windows, questioning people who are (from what all they know) just sat in their cars. So, I’d like to know from straight people who go dogging. Do your spots have regular police presence? Do police actively look for activity happening? Do police pester you if you are sat in your car, doing nothing? It seems like gay spots like this are routinely targeted and aggressively managed in an attempt to scare guys away. It is incredibly intimidating to get questioned by the police in this manner, and I can’t help but think that there is a level of homophobia and hypocrisy going on when there are spots where straight people are doing exactly the same thing, but don’t seem to get the same level of hassle and aggression. Sorry for the long post. But I think that we can have a genuinely good and respectful discussion about this. No gay bashing, or lifestyle bashing, please." Maybe the police are trying to deter drugs or catch them by hiding in a bush. Maybe they are trying to make sure atm people are sticking to social distancing. Do you know they don't actively patrol the straight players near you too? Intelligence gathering etc? | |||
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"Don’t worry, I’m not asking about “dogging spots near me”. This is a post about the police, possible harassment, possible police homophobia, and possible hypocritical attitudes. Don’t let the “homophobia” bit imply that this post is just for gay and bi men - quite the opposite - I want to hear the opinions of all tropes of the sexual spectrum. So, seeing as the lockdowns have started to be relaxed, there has been an increase in outdoor sexual activity. Straight people call it “Dogging”, us gays call it “Cruising”. I don’t partake very often, but sometimes I need a bit of light relief, and a bit of an anonymous fumble does the job. There are a cluster of lay-bys and car parks with (very) secluded wooded and forest areas adjacent, not too far away from my house, that are well known, and used, spots for this type of activity. On the most part, the gays stick to one area, and the straights stick to another area. On driving home from Clitheroe, last week, I genuinely needed to make a phone call but my phone wasn’t connected to the hands-free, so I pulled in to connect it all up... coincidentally (genuinely coincidentally) I was driving past said lay-bys, and so I pulled in. No sooner had I pulled the handbrake on, I had a torch shined through my window by a couple of cops in their car. They signalled for me to wind the window down, and they asked me what I was doing. I told them, and they asked why I needed to pull into that specific lay-by to do that. I got a bit testy at this point because I knew exactly what they were implying, so I pointed out that I needed to connect up the CarPlay for the hands-free, and then I aggressively asked if they preferred that I did that whilst driving. Then they started to say that there are a lot of single men in their cars there, and that they were “up to no good”. I asked exactly what they we’re implying, and they said that they would leave that to me to work out for myself, and if I am genuinely making a phone call, then they will leave me to it, and then they drove off. This kind of questioning happens more often than I care to count... not just to me, but to a lot of guys, in many different spots throughout the region. Following this, I have seen in some of the gay cruising forums that, this week, the police have actually been getting out of their cars and going into the very well secluded, very dark, and very hidden woods next to said lay-bys with their torches on, actively trying to catch guys in the act. The law regarding sex in public, from what I understand, is this... unless it is witnessed, or if there is no risk of more than two people seeing, it isn’t illegal. Sitting in your car at said spots ISN’T illegal. So, why are the police knocking on car windows and asking people what they are doing there? It’s obvious that, whilst someone is sitting alone in their car, they aren’t engaging in criminal activity. So, surely pestering them to wind their window down and demanding justification as to why someone (who pays their road tax) is parked in a public lay-by is just harassment! Additionally, if sex outside is only illegal if someone sees it, why are the police actively looking for it? I know that this is a grey area but to be actively pursuing something to make it illegal is surely a form of entrapment, right? My opinion is that, sure, police should be able to patrol areas to make sure that nothing illegal is taking place. But, in this case, just a simple drive by is enough. If there isn’t anybody in the middle of the road with a cock in their mouth, they should just drive off again. They shouldn’t be harassing and knocking on car windows, questioning people who are (from what all they know) just sat in their cars. So, I’d like to know from straight people who go dogging. Do your spots have regular police presence? Do police actively look for activity happening? Do police pester you if you are sat in your car, doing nothing? It seems like gay spots like this are routinely targeted and aggressively managed in an attempt to scare guys away. It is incredibly intimidating to get questioned by the police in this manner, and I can’t help but think that there is a level of homophobia and hypocrisy going on when there are spots where straight people are doing exactly the same thing, but don’t seem to get the same level of hassle and aggression. Sorry for the long post. But I think that we can have a genuinely good and respectful discussion about this. No gay bashing, or lifestyle bashing, please." At the moment they are surely just trying to ensure the social distancing rules are being adhered to. Can we discuss this again when the pandemic is over? | |||
" Maybe the police are trying to deter drugs or catch them by hiding in a bush. Maybe they are trying to make sure atm people are sticking to social distancing. Do you know they don't actively patrol the straight players near you too? Intelligence gathering etc?" They specifically pointed out that there were single men up to no good, and when I asked what exactly they were referring to, they flipped it back on me to “work out for myself”. The very fact that they were ambiguous about this speaks volumes. I think that they know they are harassing people, so they use vague language so that they can adapt it at a later date to fit the situation, if it ever became a harassment complaint. One time a cop actually said to me that he needs to work out if I am breaking into a building. Again, he never said anything about sex in public because he knows that it isn’t illegal. He was harassing me and trying to deter people from being there. It’s aggressive! And this post is written to ask straight people if they also experience this level of aggression and harassment when out dogging. | |||
"No one what to see people have sex So do on private land or keep it in your pants." Nobody is seeing it. It is being done in a very dark and dense wooded area. You would only see it if you went into the woods, looking for it. The police are questioning and pestering people sat in their cars, not engaging in anything other than the radio. | |||
" Maybe the police are trying to deter drugs or catch them by hiding in a bush. Maybe they are trying to make sure atm people are sticking to social distancing. Do you know they don't actively patrol the straight players near you too? Intelligence gathering etc? They specifically pointed out that there were single men up to no good, and when I asked what exactly they were referring to, they flipped it back on me to “work out for myself”. The very fact that they were ambiguous about this speaks volumes. I think that they know they are harassing people, so they use vague language so that they can adapt it at a later date to fit the situation, if it ever became a harassment complaint. One time a cop actually said to me that he needs to work out if I am breaking into a building. Again, he never said anything about sex in public because he knows that it isn’t illegal. He was harassing me and trying to deter people from being there. It’s aggressive! And this post is written to ask straight people if they also experience this level of aggression and harassment when out dogging. " And being a public forum I was asking how you think the police were harassing you in the middle of the pandemic.. or other reasons they don't want people fucking in lay by. And also asking how you know they don't actively patrol the straight players near you? I think it's sensible atm to try and deter all.  | |||
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"At present it is illegal under Covid restriction legislation. " This isn’t true. You can meet up to 6 people from as many households outdoors, or a larger group of any size from two households, outdoors. | |||
"At present it is illegal under Covid restriction legislation. This isn’t true. You can meet up to 6 people from as many households outdoors, or a larger group of any size from two households, outdoors." But not touching.. certainly not to have sex. | |||
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"And being a public forum I was asking how you think the police were harassing you in the middle of the pandemic.. or other reasons they don't want people fucking in lay by. And also asking how you know they don't actively patrol the straight players near you? I think it's sensible atm to try and deter all. "Sorry bud, I’m not being aggressive or argumentative towards you. I think that sometimes these forums seem to automatically denote an argument, which I’m totally not looking for. I’m genuinely asking, and genuinely interested in your comments. People aren’t fucking in a lay-by. They are parked in their cars. They get out of their cars and go into the woods, which are very dark and very secluded, and you wouldn’t see anything unless you were also in the woods, looking for action. The Covid restrictions are a worthy point, but they say that, at the moment, groups of six people from as many households can meet outdoors. So Covid rules don’t apply. Regardless, this is something that has been going on for years. I understand that they don’t want people fucking in a lay-by. I don’t want that either. My gripe is with the aggressive tactics that they are using on people sat in their cars doing nothing wrong. That is exactly why I am genuinely asking if straight people also experience it. | |||
"At present it is illegal under Covid restriction legislation. This isn’t true. You can meet up to 6 people from as many households outdoors, or a larger group of any size from two households, outdoors. But not touching.. certainly not to have sex. " Granted - 2 metre distancing rules. But we all know that isn’t the reason why the police are there. If that was the case, they’d be in all the supermarkets, making sure people in there were doing the same, and on trams, and in shopping centres, and on high streets. There are many more places where many more people are, other than a secluded wood in the middle of nowhere, where social distancing rules aren’t being adhered to. | |||
"Bit crude of the officers that, defo maybe some undertones of homophobia in the conversation. However I can say with large degree of certainty that it’s not just the cruising spots they are targeting, they are targeting all spots at the moment, I’ve certainly parked up in a spot and the police (undercover car as well) came out and asked what I’m doing. Same thing torched shined in face and looked round car, snarky comments about lots of people visiting the spot when they shouldn’t have, even one was stating they are taking my reg and if they catch me in this spot they will take it further (absolute bollocks, fuck all they can do unless the catch me with my pants down). It’s a grey area legally, but fucking outside in public, even if the probability of doubt is that it’s unlikely a member of public would spot you, you are still indecent and exposed, and the police did see you. Rough ground but I don’t think it’s possible to fix the issue, just have to do it like we do in the shadows, like a horny goblins we are and don’t get caught." Being from Bolton, I think you might know the area I’m talking about. So they do this at the straight spots too? It’s crackers! As long as nobody is literally caught with their pants down, why do they care? Is it intimidation? Is it harassment? | |||
"At present it is illegal under Covid restriction legislation. This isn’t true. You can meet up to 6 people from as many households outdoors, or a larger group of any size from two households, outdoors. But not touching.. certainly not to have sex. Granted - 2 metre distancing rules. But we all know that isn’t the reason why the police are there. If that was the case, they’d be in all the supermarkets, making sure people in there were doing the same, and on trams, and in shopping centres, and on high streets. There are many more places where many more people are, other than a secluded wood in the middle of nowhere, where social distancing rules aren’t being adhered to." I agree. But it’s a blanket rule. People shouldn’t be having sex with others outside of their bubble so although it may seem to be harsh to target an area of a small scale it’s a bigger picture right now. In normal times I’d agree it was rather pointless. Right now I support anything that enforces the rules. | |||
"Hey I dunno how my freedom got over there in that bush but the police better protect it!" I’m not sure if you’re being facetious or not, but let me just say that you should always wear grey sweatpants and never, ever wear a shirt, ever again, from this day forth. Okay?  | |||
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"Lockdown innit. Some rules have been relaxed, social distancing hasn't. Much the same as when pubs were closing early to deter temptation of losing judgement and inhibitions when their system has alcohol in it. They're removing temptation from those who maybe just intend to watch but can't resist if they get called over to join in." Meh... I can kind of agree with the Covid idea, but this has been going on for years. Way before Covid happened. It’s almost a shock tactic (shout out to anyone who has read The Shock Doctrine by Naomi Klein) where police are using the shock of Covid to become more draconian in their tactics. Like, Covid has given them a carte blanche to be more aggressive in fighting one issue, whilst hiding behind the Covid pandemic to justify their actions. | |||
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"Lockdown innit. Some rules have been relaxed, social distancing hasn't. Much the same as when pubs were closing early to deter temptation of losing judgement and inhibitions when their system has alcohol in it. They're removing temptation from those who maybe just intend to watch but can't resist if they get called over to join in. Meh... I can kind of agree with the Covid idea, but this has been going on for years. Way before Covid happened. It’s almost a shock tactic (shout out to anyone who has read The Shock Doctrine by Naomi Klein) where police are using the shock of Covid to become more draconian in their tactics. Like, Covid has given them a carte blanche to be more aggressive in fighting one issue, whilst hiding behind the Covid pandemic to justify their actions." I do agree with this. | |||
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"Lockdown innit. Some rules have been relaxed, social distancing hasn't. Much the same as when pubs were closing early to deter temptation of losing judgement and inhibitions when their system has alcohol in it. They're removing temptation from those who maybe just intend to watch but can't resist if they get called over to join in. Meh... I can kind of agree with the Covid idea, but this has been going on for years. Way before Covid happened. It’s almost a shock tactic (shout out to anyone who has read The Shock Doctrine by Naomi Klein) where police are using the shock of Covid to become more draconian in their tactics. Like, Covid has given them a carte blanche to be more aggressive in fighting one issue, whilst hiding behind the Covid pandemic to justify their actions. I do agree with this. " And I agree with you, you fabulous being! | |||
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"If it's a spot that is 'known ' for dogging or cruising, I don't see anything wrong with it being policed in an attempt to remove sexual behaviour that's essentially happening in a public space " I don’t have anything wrong with policing against sex in public, either, but the tactics being used on the people just sat in their cars, doing nothing, are very aggressive. It’s like stopping someone as they walk past a house to question them whether or not they’re going to burgle it. Or stopping every person as they walk into a shop to question them whether they’re going in there to shoplift. Sex in public spaces isn’t illegal. It is only illegal if someone sees, or if there is a chance of two or more people seeing it. And at 10pm, there aren’t going to be any families out for a country walk. The only people there are there for the same reason. And to call the place i’m referring to as “public” is a long stretch. It’s a set of lay-bys in the middle of nowhere, with a large wooded area to the side. As soon as night falls, the place is pitch black. You wouldn’t see anything happening even if you drove down the road with your full beams on. Like I have said in the posts above, you would only see something happening if you were in the woods with a torch, otherwise it’s pretty much pitch black. | |||
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"And being a public forum I was asking how you think the police were harassing you in the middle of the pandemic.. or other reasons they don't want people fucking in lay by. And also asking how you know they don't actively patrol the straight players near you? I think it's sensible atm to try and deter all.
Sorry bud, I’m not being aggressive or argumentative towards you. I think that sometimes these forums seem to automatically denote an argument, which I’m totally not looking for. I’m genuinely asking, and genuinely interested in your comments.
People aren’t fucking in a lay-by. They are parked in their cars. They get out of their cars and go into the woods, which are very dark and very secluded, and you wouldn’t see anything unless you were also in the woods, looking for action.
The Covid restrictions are a worthy point, but they say that, at the moment, groups of six people from as many households can meet outdoors. So Covid rules don’t apply. Regardless, this is something that has been going on for years. I understand that they don’t want people fucking in a lay-by. I don’t want that either. My gripe is with the aggressive tactics that they are using on people sat in their cars doing nothing wrong. That is exactly why I am genuinely asking if straight people also experience it."Aggressive tactics??? What you’ve described is 2 officers not leaving their car, not detaining you, not touching you .... they’ve asked you a question. You didn’t like that question, and by your own admission , have replied in an argumentative way at best. I suggest if you want to see ‘aggressive tactics’ in Policing you need to look elsewhere. What’s actually happened is the officers are patrolling an area there has probably been numerous complaints about... whether those complaints are justified or not the expectation is they would be looked into. So what was actually a fairly innocuous interaction you’ve found a way to be offended... I think the ‘issue’ here may not pay at the feet of the Police... | |||
"No one what to see people have sex So do on private land or keep it in your pants. Nobody is seeing it. It is being done in a very dark and dense wooded area. You would only see it if you went into the woods, looking for it. The police are questioning and pestering people sat in their cars, not engaging in anything other than the radio." Or waking dog and looking for one eyed Willis gold.. | |||
"If it's a spot that is 'known ' for dogging or cruising, I don't see anything wrong with it being policed in an attempt to remove sexual behaviour that's essentially happening in a public space I don’t have anything wrong with policing against sex in public, either, but the tactics being used on the people just sat in their cars, doing nothing, are very aggressive. It’s like stopping someone as they walk past a house to question them whether or not they’re going to burgle it. Or stopping every person as they walk into a shop to question them whether they’re going in there to shoplift. Sex in public spaces isn’t illegal. It is only illegal if someone sees, or if there is a chance of two or more people seeing it. And at 10pm, there aren’t going to be any families out for a country walk. The only people there are there for the same reason. And to call the place i’m referring to as “public” is a long stretch. It’s a set of lay-bys in the middle of nowhere, with a large wooded area to the side. As soon as night falls, the place is pitch black. You wouldn’t see anything happening even if you drove down the road with your full beams on. Like I have said in the posts above, you would only see something happening if you were in the woods with a torch, otherwise it’s pretty much pitch black." and yet, this place is so secluded, it just happened to he the exact spot you needed to stop to sort out a call on a routine drive - should we expect there will not br anyone else that has to do the same? because once they do and the a t is seen it becomes illegal | |||
"And being a public forum I was asking how you think the police were harassing you in the middle of the pandemic.. or other reasons they don't want people fucking in lay by. And also asking how you know they don't actively patrol the straight players near you? I think it's sensible atm to try and deter all.
Sorry bud, I’m not being aggressive or argumentative towards you. I think that sometimes these forums seem to automatically denote an argument, which I’m totally not looking for. I’m genuinely asking, and genuinely interested in your comments.
People aren’t fucking in a lay-by. They are parked in their cars. They get out of their cars and go into the woods, which are very dark and very secluded, and you wouldn’t see anything unless you were also in the woods, looking for action.
The Covid restrictions are a worthy point, but they say that, at the moment, groups of six people from as many households can meet outdoors. So Covid rules don’t apply. Regardless, this is something that has been going on for years. I understand that they don’t want people fucking in a lay-by. I don’t want that either. My gripe is with the aggressive tactics that they are using on people sat in their cars doing nothing wrong. That is exactly why I am genuinely asking if straight people also experience it."I just think because you mentioned restrictions easing that this was a targeted approach since they were relaxed. I wouldn't of started aggressively talking with a officer to. Just saves the potential of a uneasy stop. Im sure you've had more problems before this that's made you feel like you've got a target on your back. I guess all of us have got one atm. Find new spots is this is to well known by police now I suggest. | |||
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"Shock horror police do their job and some one dislikes it "  | |||
"And being a public forum I was asking how you think the police were harassing you in the middle of the pandemic.. or other reasons they don't want people fucking in lay by. And also asking how you know they don't actively patrol the straight players near you? I think it's sensible atm to try and deter all.
Sorry bud, I’m not being aggressive or argumentative towards you. I think that sometimes these forums seem to automatically denote an argument, which I’m totally not looking for. I’m genuinely asking, and genuinely interested in your comments.
People aren’t fucking in a lay-by. They are parked in their cars. They get out of their cars and go into the woods, which are very dark and very secluded, and you wouldn’t see anything unless you were also in the woods, looking for action.
The Covid restrictions are a worthy point, but they say that, at the moment, groups of six people from as many households can meet outdoors. So Covid rules don’t apply. Regardless, this is something that has been going on for years. I understand that they don’t want people fucking in a lay-by. I don’t want that either. My gripe is with the aggressive tactics that they are using on people sat in their cars doing nothing wrong. That is exactly why I am genuinely asking if straight people also experience it."Do you have a massive rainbow flag on your car and "I  Elton John" bumper stickers?
If not, perhaps they assumed you are straight.   | |||
