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5th force of nature found, (maybe)!
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Physicists say they’ve found signs of a mysterious fifth fundamental force of nature, huge if true. Scientists believed that there were 4 forces of nature, gravity, electromagnetic force, strong nuclear force, weak nuclear force, these forces explain how everything works, but they’ve now found on a sub atomic level that muons behave in ways that can’t be explained by our current theory and thus our current standard model, physicists believe this could be because of a 5th force of nature, if they find it, it could potentially explain the mysteries of the universe, like why we exist at all and why men don’t read profiles.
So potentially everything we currently know is wrong, I find this stuff fascinating, especially physics, any other science geeks out there and what’s your views on this ?! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Everything we know is always wrong, otherwise we'd never discover new stuff. If there is a fifth, why not more? I tend to think we are limited by what we think we know, rather than what else is possible. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Is dark matter one of the things it old be ? Have you read Neil degrass new book astrophysics for people in a hurry ."
I dunno, when I first heard it I thought is this what they think dark matter is, but I’m not sure it’s the same thing. I haven’t read his book yet, but I will do. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Is dark matter one of the things it old be ? Have you read Neil degrass new book astrophysics for people in a hurry .
I went to a club night named Dark Matter. Techno until the early hours. "
Yeah, same thing. |
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By *an4funMan
over a year ago
london |
"Is dark matter one of the things it old be ? Have you read Neil degrass new book astrophysics for people in a hurry .
I went to a club night named Dark Matter. Techno until the early hours.
Yeah, same thing. "
I thought so |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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X17 was discovered 4-5 years ago they found evidence existed by accident, i vaguely remember a radio 4 documentary about it afew year ago.
Theres has been a few claims of a 5th force over the years but most have been classed as a fundamental and fit into the Standard partical Model a its a closed book to the find. But X17 interacts with matter much more weakly. And that’s an indication that it’s not part of the structure of the Standard Model, tbf its a exciting find City, how would it change what we know? Could it rewrite the science of forces or coincide with it?  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I like science but find physics a stretch to understand. Good to find new things though. Worcestershire has a species of mosquito previously unknown to man. I do like science. |
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"It might not be a 5th fundamental force, it might also be explained by a hitherto undiscovered sub-atomic particle. Leptoquarks and Z' bosons have both been postulated as such particles...."
Still a worthy discovery |
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"It might not be a 5th fundamental force, it might also be explained by a hitherto undiscovered sub-atomic particle. Leptoquarks and Z' bosons have both been postulated as such particles....
Still a worthy discovery"
Oh yes indeed! It might still be a 5th force. They just don't know... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Where did they find it? I've got all kinds down the back of my sofa
Fermilab, Chicago  "
Nah it was first found at Brookhaven in NY. They are just repeating the experiment, but more precisely. FermiLab are using the exact Magnet that Brookhaven did |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I like science but find physics a stretch to understand. Good to find new things though. Worcestershire has a species of mosquito previously unknown to man. I do like science. "
Yeah if you want your mind fucked a bit look into time dilation.
Whenever you move through space, by walking, running, driving, etc. relative to people who aren’t in motion, you are traveling just a bit slower through time. This effect has been confirmed by atomic clocks placed in airplanes as well as orbiting satellites and compared to those on the ground. |
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"Where did they find it? I've got all kinds down the back of my sofa
Between some filing cabinets at the Large Hadron Collider "
No one mentions the Colider anymore.
I think it's a bit like when you first get a bread maker. All over it for a few weeks,sour dough coming out of your ears, then it gets stuck in the back of the kichen cupboard for the duration.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjnK5exNhZ0
Good video on the subject i watched last week
Nice one"
PBS Space Time also do some pretty good videos on this subject and others
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4Ko7NW2yQo
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"Where did they find it? I've got all kinds down the back of my sofa
Between some filing cabinets at the Large Hadron Collider
No one mentions the Colider anymore.
I think it's a bit like when you first get a bread maker. All over it for a few weeks,sour dough coming out of your ears, then it gets stuck in the back of the kichen cupboard for the duration.
"
The LHC is in a period of long shutdown, it should be back up and running for certain experiments later this year. It's been in shutdown since 2018. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I'm waiting for Essex Tom's thread on the matter before passing comment.
The dark matter?"
Almost certainly  Those threads have a strong gravitational pull but often end up in a very black hole. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"X17 was discovered 4-5 years ago they found evidence existed by accident, i vaguely remember a radio 4 documentary about it afew year ago.
Theres has been a few claims of a 5th force over the years but most have been classed as a fundamental and fit into the Standard partical Model a its a closed book to the find. But X17 interacts with matter much more weakly. And that’s an indication that it’s not part of the structure of the Standard Model, tbf its a exciting find City, how would it change what we know? Could it rewrite the science of forces or coincide with it? "
I’m not sure, I presume it coincides within it, it’s on a subatomic level, so I’m confused, I don’t know if it will mean they give up looking for dark matter. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I'm waiting for Essex Tom's thread on the matter before passing comment.
Surprised he didn’t do this thread, the story is nearly 5 days old."
If you lived in Essex you'd understand that Racist Cheese v Newtonian Physics is no contest ! |
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"Where did they find it? I've got all kinds down the back of my sofa
Between some filing cabinets at the Large Hadron Collider
No one mentions the Colider anymore.
I think it's a bit like when you first get a bread maker. All over it for a few weeks,sour dough coming out of your ears, then it gets stuck in the back of the kichen cupboard for the duration.
The LHC is in a period of long shutdown, it should be back up and running for certain experiments later this year. It's been in shutdown since 2018."
They've been upgrading it, so it'll be able to collide particles at even higher speeds and such |
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"Where did they find it? I've got all kinds down the back of my sofa
Between some filing cabinets at the Large Hadron Collider
No one mentions the Colider anymore.
I think it's a bit like when you first get a bread maker. All over it for a few weeks,sour dough coming out of your ears, then it gets stuck in the back of the kichen cupboard for the duration.
The LHC is in a period of long shutdown, it should be back up and running for certain experiments later this year. It's been in shutdown since 2018.
They've been upgrading it, so it'll be able to collide particles at even higher speeds and such"
Yup, exciting stuff to come! |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Does a 4th or 5th dimension exist?
Before you say it one of those was a 1970s harmony group!"
Isn’t the 4th dimension space/ time, I don’t think they will ever know for sure, as we can’t see it through our own senses, think it will always remain a theory. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"X17 was discovered 4-5 years ago they found evidence existed by accident, i vaguely remember a radio 4 documentary about it afew year ago.
Theres has been a few claims of a 5th force over the years but most have been classed as a fundamental and fit into the Standard partical Model a its a closed book to the find. But X17 interacts with matter much more weakly. And that’s an indication that it’s not part of the structure of the Standard Model, tbf its a exciting find City, how would it change what we know? Could it rewrite the science of forces or coincide with it?
I’m not sure, I presume it coincides within it, it’s on a subatomic level, so I’m confused, I don’t know if it will mean they give up looking for dark matter. "
It could open so much we dont know about the universe, and answer so many mysteries |
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By *awk90Man
over a year ago
Amsterdam |
Hi!
Yay, a physics thread! This is right up my alley.
Someone asked early on;
The four fundamental forces are electromagnetism, the weak force, the strong nuclear force (imaginative names, I know...), and gravity.
This particular experiment shows that the magnetic moment of muons does not match the current theoretical models, which is exciting! We know our models are limited, but this might give indications towards more correct models
It could very well be that unexpected kinds of particles get created near the muon, which would mean either that our fundamental understanding of the forces is a bit off, or that there are unexpected kinds of particles around (which could be a dark matter indicator, for example).
I'm not sure about calling it a "fifth force" yet, but it seems to me it could be a mixing of the existing forces.
Whatever is going on, we're learning more! I heard that one group has found a theory that can possibly explain the discrepancy in the muon magnetic moment, but I'm sure we'll hear a lot more (and a lot more discussion) about it once they reach the "5 sigma" confidence level with the results. In particle physics, it's not considered a sure discovery until this level is reached.
I'm more than happy to discuss this further! This stuff really excites me, both professionally and personally |
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"It might not be a 5th fundamental force, it might also be explained by a hitherto undiscovered sub-atomic particle. Leptoquarks and Z' bosons have both been postulated as such particles...."
I want to see some z bozons now
How about some zz ones  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Does a 4th or 5th dimension exist?
Before you say it one of those was a 1970s harmony group!
Isn’t the 4th dimension space/ time, I don’t think they will ever know for sure, as we can’t see it through our own senses, think it will always remain a theory. "
I was being a little more basic.
A two dimensional object has just that two dimensions let’s length and width but it has no depth (no jokes about some fab members) or thickness? We live in a three dimension environment in so far as we are concerned we know about length, width and thickness, I think this could be a penis size post!
So let’s say somewhere in the universe baby Jesus and his dad created a world of flat people who only had two dimensions. They only knew length and width? There is a third dimension out there they just can’t access it.
We on earth live a 3 dimensional existence but what if there is 4th, 5th or even a 6th dimension that we just cannot access?
All a bit deep on a Saturday morning but just a thought on a sunny spring day!
PS
On reading the post back using the words depth, width, thickness and length then perhaps I should apologise as no inference was meant! |
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"Where did they find it? I've got all kinds down the back of my sofa
Between some filing cabinets at the Large Hadron Collider
No one mentions the Colider anymore.
I think it's a bit like when you first get a bread maker. All over it for a few weeks,sour dough coming out of your ears, then it gets stuck in the back of the kichen cupboard for the duration.
The LHC is in a period of long shutdown, it should be back up and running for certain experiments later this year. It's been in shutdown since 2018."
So has my bread maker  |
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All interesting stuff. But I don't understand why a previously unknown fifth force is regarded as a failure of the standard model, whereas postulating huge amounts of dark matter (which has never been detected, let alone fully characterised) is fine. To me, dark matter is just the same as the fiddle factors I had to introduce when my undergrad physics experiments weren't working! |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Makes me laugh when scientists claim they know everything. Proof they don't. Probably loads more they have no clue about. Yet. "
Scientists, especially physicists never claim they know everything, they know there’s plenty they don’t know, like 85% of what makes up the universe, that’s why they’re called theories, everything is up for question. There’s no ego in science. Most scientists are more excited when things don’t turn out how they thought, cause it means there is still more to learn and understand. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Makes me laugh when scientists claim they know everything. Proof they don't. Probably loads more they have no clue about. Yet.
Scientists, especially physicists never claim they know everything, they know there’s plenty they don’t know, like 85% of what makes up the universe, that’s why they’re called theories, everything is up for question. There’s no ego in science. Most scientists are more excited when things don’t turn out how they thought, cause it means there is still more to learn and understand. "
Great answer. I was about to say, all good scientists will scoff at anyone who suggests they know everything.
The whole universe is filled with gaps we don’t know. The seas for example are undercovered, and using that as an example proves that physics is the same. It is vast, and we will never know it all. |
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