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By *icketysplits OP Woman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
The Soham thread has made me think about physiognomy.
During the 18th/19th centuries books were produced setting out the characteristics of bad people. Genetics is now looking to see if there are specific genes that lead to particular criminal and deviant behaviour.
What do you really think? Can you spot 'evil', for want of a better word, by the way that someone looks? Or, are people shaped by their experiences to become 'evil'? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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or maybe neither. Jon Venables and Robert Thompson didn't look evil and given their ages I doubt experience made them evil. some people are just fucked up. sadly they don't come with a 666 tattoo |
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By *yrdwomanWoman
over a year ago
Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum |
"The Soham thread has made me think about physiognomy.
During the 18th/19th centuries books were produced setting out the characteristics of bad people. Genetics is now looking to see if there are specific genes that lead to particular criminal and deviant behaviour.
What do you really think? Can you spot 'evil', for want of a better word, by the way that someone looks? Or, are people shaped by their experiences to become 'evil'?"
There was a programme on recently about a guy who studied psychopaths and whether there was a common gene. He thought there was and so got tested and found out he and his mother both had the gene. He was positive it was because he was 'nurtured' differently, and I believe that has a lot to do with it, but that doesn't explain people who had wonderful upbringings yet still murdered for no reason.
I think it's a mixture of a lot of things. Now, where did I leave my cleaver?  |
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By *icketysplits OP Woman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"Always amuses me that the psychological profiles of our most notorious criminals and those in charge of our top companies are so closely matched."
There was a report produced last year showing that large corporates have a higher percentage of psychopaths leading them than found in the general population. It has a great table showing the language of leadership, the attributes one should look for and develop to be a great leader and the language used by psychiatry to describe the same traits in psychopaths. |
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What an interesting thread lickity.
Firstly what do you class as "evil". Someone that murders someone is a really bad person (in my eyes) someone like hindly and brady are evil(in my eyes) as _iew said about the picture of myra hindly, if you was to ask someone who is the face of evil im sure the majority would refer to that picture of myra hindly.
However, we have to remember that noone looks "good" on a photofit picture. If we watch something like crimewatch all the photofit pictures look "dodgy" characters.
I think over time we have associated evil with ugliness or "odd" looking people, however, you only have to look at someone like Ted Bundy to know that isnt true.
I believe nurture can turn people bad but i also believe some people are born evil, i did a study on roger black(the lorry driver who murdered the girls) he was showing signs of unnatural behaviour from the age of 8 and there where concerns with him.
Regarding your last comment about psycopaths and business leaders i believe also there is a higher than average percentage of psycopaths/sociapaths working in the stock market as well. If it is channeled correctly it doesnt always have to be a bad thing although mostly it is.
Could i spot someone who was evil? I could spot someone who had the stereotype looks of someone that is evil. But evil commons in all kinds of guises |
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By *icketysplits OP Woman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
Diamond, thanks for those comments.
Evil isn't quite the right word but it is an emotive one and so I chose it for this thread. Like most things I think there is a continuum and we are all on it somewhere. Some of us at the extreme end (possibly Hitler as an example of what many could imagine evil to be) and others of us paddling in the shallow end (stealing sweets as a kid).
There do seem to traits in some that identify early - cruelty to animals often being an early warning sign. But do we give up on an eight year old and lock them up because of what they might do, because they fit the 'evil' identikit? Or, do we try and address the issues?
I do wonder how much our idea of what 'evil' looks like comes from those phsyiognomy books and their influence on popular culture. Give someone a facial disfigurement and in a film we are likely to think they are the baddie... |
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I would be fascinated if in years to come they could detect if people have an "evil" gene and it could be removed, id like to be around long enough to see if that happens.
On another note, i also think there is a difference between peodophiles and child abusers. Peodophiles are born with a sexual attraction to prepubescent children. Its not the peopdophile i hate, its the act that they carry out.
Child abusers, generally become child abusers because of life experiences or because they are evil not because they have a sexual attraction to children.
I watched a programme on a peodophile once. It was in america and before they made the programme they searched the guys background and couldnt find a single thing that could link him to do anything against children. The guy knew he was a peodophile and spent his entire life fighting his attraction to the point of taking himself away to live somewhere really remote away from society. Which for me shows that not all peodophiles are bad people its the acts they carry out that are bad |
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By *icketysplits OP Woman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"I would be fascinated if in years to come they could detect if people have an "evil" gene and it could be removed, id like to be around long enough to see if that happens.
On another note, i also think there is a difference between peodophiles and child abusers. Peodophiles are born with a sexual attraction to prepubescent children. Its not the peopdophile i hate, its the act that they carry out.
Child abusers, generally become child abusers because of life experiences or because they are evil not because they have a sexual attraction to children.
I watched a programme on a peodophile once. It was in america and before they made the programme they searched the guys background and couldnt find a single thing that could link him to do anything against children. The guy knew he was a peodophile and spent his entire life fighting his attraction to the point of taking himself away to live somewhere really remote away from society. Which for me shows that not all peodophiles are bad people its the acts they carry out that are bad"
Now, I agree with this wholeheartedly but I am going to say something that may get me stoned to death.
We have set out what we think is child and what is adult. This is not the same throughout the world and is certainly not the same as it has been in history. There are children who are sexually aware of themselves and ready to explore at a very young age and there are those who take longer. We have set 16 as the point where we think they are mature enough to make that decision.
If I didn't have the conditioning and the religion then I would say that I was ready to explore my sexuality when I was 10. Anyone older than me at that age that had helped me with that exploration would have been classed a paedophile.
Now for the stoning bits. I do think there is a strange thing of condemning paedophiles and at the same time having a fashion for women, in particular, to look young and genitally prepubescent.
I also maintain that Mohammed should be considered a paedophile as one of his wives was but 6 years old and the 'teaching' is that Muslim women should not have pubic hair any longer than a grain of rice and most that I know of just shave it all off to avoid having to measure. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Although the programme last night was interesting and sad, I couldn't help wondering how Jessica's parents are and what they are doing now. The whole programme was about Holly's parents and no mention of Jessica's. |
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Having worked with many troubled individuals some who have commited crimes againest children it was hard to leave my morals at the door some recongised the acts they commited were hanous acts some did not show any remorse in the acts that they have commited. I have worked with murderers and its difficult.. There are some that you just have to look at their eyes and they are black not in colour but you can just see blackeness.. its hard to describe. I have worked with some who you look at they remind you of the man next door the one that helps with everyday tasks and you would never know.
Sometimes I used to sit and want to ask why but that is a question that was often not asked as I never wanted to hear the answer. Ian Huntly was a cold hearted individual one that showed no emotion and mocked the families of Holly and Jessica. I got out of the job that I did as I often came home with a sense of why was I nice to that person today but I had to be.. They to are humans some are bad some are just lost and know what they did was wrong. I have met some people who you would not meet everyday through my career choice. However now I see the victims of certain types of people whether its domestic abusers of child abusers.. it often hard to sit there and read such harrowing stories but for me its to help people who are troubled and in need. People maybe born evil however in certain cases its the upbringing they have had that has caused them to commit these acts. Some are brought up in loving homes and something just switches in their brain... Oh I don't know I am rambling now... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Police and others often say that if you could recognise a criminal on sight then their jobs would be a lot easier.
Well how come we can just drive through town on an evening and see them all over.
They're usually 6'+, skinny, cropped hair and few teeth.
We just know if we frisked them 80% would have something dodgy on them.
We could fill the cells in an hour but perhaps that's exactly what the courts DON'T want!  
XXXX |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I would be fascinated if in years to come they could detect if people have an "evil" gene and it could be removed, id like to be around long enough to see if that happens.
On another note, i also think there is a difference between peodophiles and child abusers. Peodophiles are born with a sexual attraction to prepubescent children. Its not the peopdophile i hate, its the act that they carry out.
Child abusers, generally become child abusers because of life experiences or because they are evil not because they have a sexual attraction to children.
I watched a programme on a peodophile once. It was in america and before they made the programme they searched the guys background and couldnt find a single thing that could link him to do anything against children. The guy knew he was a peodophile and spent his entire life fighting his attraction to the point of taking himself away to live somewhere really remote away from society. Which for me shows that not all peodophiles are bad people its the acts they carry out that are bad"
Back in the 90's I worked at a main Govt Dept and, due to the job, had regular meetings with the Prison Service Psychology Team (we were working on one of many rehabilitation programs for offenders where the root cause of their crime was believed to be of a sexual nature). During one meeting over lunch, I made a comment along the lines of 'I wish I could understand how a paedophile thinks....'. The senior psychologist sitting opposite put her knife and fork down, looked straight at me and said.. 'Pork - don't even bother. Even with all the millions being spent on the program, all we will be able to do is spot the signs a bit earlier. We will NEVER be able to think like a paedophile does - their thought patterns are 180 degrees opposite to yours. Don't waste your time....'.
To say that had a bit of an impact on me is an understatement, but made me realise that all the 'studies' and 'research' trying to find a way to eradicate it are all but futile. All we can do is 'hope' we can spot the traits early enough before they can be allowed to do damage..
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By *acreadCouple
over a year ago
central scotland |
"Police and others often say that if you could recognise a criminal on sight then their jobs would be a lot easier.
Well how come we can just drive through town on an evening and see them all over.
They're usually 6'+, skinny, cropped hair and few teeth.
We just know if we frisked them 80% would have something dodgy on them.
We could fill the cells in an hour but perhaps that's exactly what the courts DON'T want!
Or just visit the Jeremy Kyle studio every morning
XXXX"
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